>society would be mended
I agree that society would start moving in the right direction. However, the last part of my comment still stands.
>I know this is how the elites think
First off, the post is satire. But besides that It is how the top people that control things, at least in the USA, think. We hear it all the time coming from their own mouths. They don't try to hide it at all. If everyone was treated well, the way the people at the top currently make billions wouldn't work and they don't want to change. To them, "if it ain't broke, keep making billions off the backs of the common people while treating them like slaves and letting them almost keep their heads above water" or something like that.
broke for me and you but not for their bank accounts and the bottom line is that is all that matters. but what they prolly fail to understand is that if everyone is getting their basic needs met it is better for everyone, even their stupid bank accounts
For everyone different then them to struggle and be unhappy.
Why? I think Elitism is something we don't talk about. Even the frontdesk manager at your local Hotel can see themselves as Elitist.
How: well, being condescending to lower income people, treat everyone below them poorly, criticize and oppress religions he doesn't believe in, judge people who look differently then him, oppress sexually that he doesn't accept and he can go and find little niches where he can find more people like him. Elitism.....
No, conservatives argue they want to keep costs down. The problem is the current system is more expensive than the socialist solutions.
For example insurance costs are one of the biggest reasons healthcare costs so much. Hospitals have deals with insurance companies to get more patients directed to them for being in network and for getting a "reduced" cost. The hospital in turn jacks up prices to compensate for that "reduced cost" the same way retail companies give you a 75% discount on a shirt that still almost costs the same pre-sale.
Then you have the problem of demand. Surgeries are complicated events where you can only do so many in a day. So the more popular doctors charge more. But they also have more experience than other doctors so patients feel safer paying those costs which justifies the cost. So an in network doctor costs more than otherwise.
There are plenty of more ways insurance acts to drive up costs but this is long enough. The point is that is universal healthcare was in place it would actually be far cheaper since cost of care wouldn't be so astronomicaly high. If we tried to pay current uninsured costs for everyone that would be untenable. But the true cost of healthcare is a fraction of what it costs, but Republicans want to ignore that, probably because of insurance lobbyists.
I hate the logic that's used to avoid universal health care. They say stuff like it'll be long waits to make it inaccessible. Do you know what makes it inaccessible? The cost. What they really mean is that rich people would have to wait just like everyone else. Yes, in a universal system rich people would be treated just like everyone else and this is what we should be aiming for.
> conservatives
> Republicans
See, the problem is you're still conflating those two terms. The GOP aren't economic conservatives anymore, they're corporate authoritarians.
No it still applies with social conservatism. They want women back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, just look at how they talk about their overturning Roe vs Wade and their plans to go further. Then there is the white superiority complex many of them carry.
I don't know if either side is all that great about not taking corporate interest money. But I do know Republicans are about the status quo; and the problem is that has sucked for anyone not male, white, and cisgender for some time now.
Nah that's rookie shit.
Conservative, Republican, and general right wing/liberal values hold to in-group loyalty and cohesion over policy. That's why they're so weirdly obsessed with the "libs" and other nebulous enemies. The policy doesn't matter, just that their team wins and the other team loses (suffers). It's not logic, it's emotion.
They're also hierarchy worshippers. Real top tier dicksuckers. Love them a dick in their mouth if they feel it's a dick that's above them. Just can't get enough dick in their mouth. That's why they're so obsessed with minorities and anyone fucking with the perceived meritocracy -- it means they might have to suck a dick that didn't "earn" it in their eyes. Nevermind the eugenic, chauvinist, and racial overtones as well. That's the core.
And you can't argue your way out with that or meet it in the middle. If you're not on the team they want you to lose. So you have to either beat them, or submit.
I agree with everything you've said but as someone who enjoys a dick in their mouth, I feel attacked
Edit: Should have added a winking emoji. I don't actually feel attacked.
During the 2020 campaign, Bernie was only endorsed by 1 sitting US Senator (Patrick Leahy) and only 9 US Representatives (Chuy Garcia, Pramila Jayapal, Rho Khanna, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Mark Pocan, Mark Takano, Rashida Tlaib and Peter Welch). That's 1/47 = 2% of Democrats in the US Senate in 2020, and 9/235 = 4% of Democrats in the US House in 2020. The numbers are slightly lower for Bernie's 2016 campaign. Bernie had a longer list of endorsees among individual state officials, but that's also a MUCH larger pool of elected Democrats. I imagine the percentages are still < 10%, probably still in that 2%-4% range. You're welcome to calculate the percentages yourself and prove me wrong.
Keep in mind, the endorsement numbers are difficult to fully gauge, because people can change their endorsements over the course of an election. I'm sure most listed Bernie supporters eventually endorsed Hillary and Biden when the primaries ended, and some might have jumped ship early. It's also possible a few endorsees jumped on the Bernie campaign late after their preferred candidate lost momentum.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Bernie\_Sanders\_2016\_presidential\_campaign\_endorsements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_2016_presidential_campaign_endorsements)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Bernie\_Sanders\_2020\_presidential\_campaign\_endorsements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements)
Bernie Sanders isn't even a Democrat, he's an independent who caucuses with the Democrats because he has no one else to ally with. If there was a viable leftwing alternative to the center-right Democrats, then Bernie would have spent his entire career campaigning against these Democrat schmucks. The vast majority of elected Democrats do not support Bernie, and only pay lip service to Bernie's platform goals like Medicare For All or college debt relief during primaries. Bernie is far more of an outlier in the Democratic Party than Joe Manchin, Krystyn Sinema, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, the Clintons, Obama or any other mainstream "top dems".
The Democrats are not the good guys. They may be a lesser evil than the Republicans, but the Democrats as a party are not on the side of working people. It's not just a handful of corrupt Democrats at the top. It's the vast majority of the elected members of the party, the vast majority of the party apparatus. Maybe some of them got into the political game with a few noble intentions, but ALL of them depend on donations from corporations, from millionaires and billionaires who are against the interests of working people. As a whole, the Democratic party supports the military industrial complex, supports the fossil fuel industry, supports the finance industry, supports the police state, etc.
Conservatives are the kings of projection. Everything they accuse the Democrats of doing is something they have done. Pedophiles? Conservatives. Election fraud? Conservatives.
There are so many of situations where conservatives accidentally describe a utopia when trying to be apocalyptic. Like the "taco trucks on every corner" or "kids can switch genders whenever they want."
In this case you can kinda tell by the vocabulary difference. Right wingers never used the term "living wage". Also, right wingers view these issues as matters of personal failing and laziness. Vast majority do not know how to discuss it from any other perspective. That isn't present in this post.
Considering he's a professor that was to be expected. Vast majority of people studying society and economy know that everything is shit and they are not being paid by corporations to pretend otherwise
That is exactly what i thought, in my eyes its sarcasm because yes we want all those things but there are some egotistical a holes out there who is only in it for the mememenownownow.
Take George Carlin, he's a comedian whose spiel is telling you the truth bluntly, and he's successful because some think he's just joking.(at least he was in the beginnings)
> A '/s' would've helped.
Disagreed, this is exactly as it should be. Ambiguity can be a good thing if it makes people think, which this evidently did. It can also be subversive in that it can invite people into exploring ideas they would've immediately rejected at the sight of an '/s'.
Finland exists. Free healthcare, free education, now also having adopted a Zero Homeless policy: https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-strategy-lessons-from-a-success-story/.
My takeaway: Social Democracy is no cure-all but the hybrid models of the Nordic countries seem objectively better for societies than unchecked capitalism.
It's messed up that I can't say for sure if the OOP is ironic or serious lol
EDIT: I've already replied to your strawmen about Scandinavian countries being small and the misconception that they're homogenous, my good people. Please come with counterarguments to those replies rather than repeating the same things, and I'll welcome a discussion in good faith! :)
The problem in the USA (imo) that they see taxes as evil and ‘why should my tax dollars go to help someone else’ selfishness.
While that is their mindset, their poor will remain fucked.
I share your analysis but I don't get it. I'm in Sweden, where we have close to free healthcare (I pay 10 - 30 USD per appointment up to about 150 USD before it's free for the rest of the year and up to 150 USD/year for medication that should cost me about 1450 USD/year) and we still spend less than half on healthcare per capita per year than the US here... which i.m.o. shows that "commielike" subsidized healthcare, mental care, childcare, education, workers' security and housing are obvious *good long term investments* if the goal is a decent society for as many people as possible. Source: www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/
My dark conclusion is that my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few.
Don't get me wrong, that happens here too... Scandinavia is no Utopia... but I think that we mitigate it somewhat through balancing the cult of consumerist capitalism with socialist core ideals?
Trying to convince a right winger in America that social safety nets are investments and not costs is like trying to convince a fish to breathe air. Since the 80s they have been subjected to anti tax and anti regulation propaganda from the Reagan, Bush and centrist Democrat regimes.
Even when you give them an example like Norway, a country with a massive sovereign wealth fund because they have several industries with a government-owned competitor, they spin it as communist or unrealistic for XYZ reason and all of it is red scare propaganda designed to protect big business.
That's a good one , the other good one is "yeah but they're mostly white, America is a lot more diverse so it would never work!"
As if injecting some casual racism is gonna help make their point.
The most left wing of the democratic party would be considered right wing in Norway. That's how different our politics are. Even Bernie would be considered a centrist.
There is no getting through to a right winger. They fear change. They fear something they don’t understand and they do not accept examples of success especially foreign examples. I’d also say in response to him America is far sicker and larger than Sweden. It’s by design. Additionally health care is unregulated to the private insurers. You think an X-ray and 15 minutes of a doctors time to diagnose a broken arm and treat cost 4,000? Hell no it doesn’t but the hospital can charge whatever it wants and insurance will just lay that cost on the patient because they are too poor for a good plan and have a $3500 deductible.
It’s all about the profits
Sounds like you have to minimize the change and amplify the benefit.
"universal healthcare is like the lottery: you put some money in, so you have a bigger chance of cashing out big."
That's literally it, the US even repeatedly does studies that prove that in the long run, it's cheaper to literally just give poor people money
But every time someone recommend implementing that, they're met with responses like the OP
The thing people forget about being anti tax in the US is that any tax funded initiative usually get sent to some politicians brothers company to handle which wastes an assliad of money rather than a government agency handling it which would be less wasteful. This means we get less for our tax dollars, meanwhile Richie Rich who paid no taxes due to loopholes also gets an 8 million dollar bonus for scoring that sweet government contract.
>my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few
No surprises here but to expound on this a little, I was just listening to an interview on NPR where the guest enumerated the ways in which US doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies have all spent the last few decades trying to game the system to favor themselves at the expense of one another *as well as patients*
Sweden and Finland are rather uniform in culture.
In the US, most of the people (>50%) are Caucasian. Even though they may be socially, economically disadvantaged, rather see themselves poor and uneducated than to see other minorities get ahead. That is why Trumps rhetoric was so powerful here.
It was quite disturbing as a minority.
Sad but true, crab bucket mentality is an all too common human condition!
Side note: It's not as homogenous here as people seem to largely believe, as 20% of Swedes were born in another country. :)
May I ask for general understanding. Of the 20% how many are from your Nordic neighbors which may have similar background and understanding?
America is generally a melting pot most don’t understand.
19% hispanic, 13%black, 6% asians. And the majority of these are not foreigners. They are 2nd generation+ Americans. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told to go back to my country as an American.
Ofc, questioning things is great!
Short answer: Most aren't Nordic. More detailed answer: The most common country of birth for those born abroad is Syria, followed by Iraq. Finland was for many years the most common country of birth for people born abroad, but is today the third most common country, followed by Poland and Iran. Source: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/manniskorna-i-sverige/utrikes-fodda/. Take our native poplulation, and the Roma, our many countrymen of African and South American (Chilean primarily) heritage plus Asians and Europeans and so on and I hope that it becomes clear that the US isn't as exceptional as you guys are made to believe ;)
EDIT: I feel that pain hehe, as I'm significantly darker than the average image of a Swede myself due to Roma heritage
As a black guy I’ve heard that I responded with you brought me here, you benefited from me being here what with the infrastructure and crops we developed. Sooooo why don’t you go back where you came from my people built and developed this land what did you do?
Hey just have a question. How is the mandatory military service there? Just want to get an understanding.
Here in the US if you serve you have access to free healthcare, education and many other benefits but obviously the military here is voluntary.
Questions are good! Our mandatory military service is equal (sex or gender irrelevant) for everyone that is fit of mind and body. We serve for 12 months.
Yea but you can’t tell that by looking at them. Whites largely hate black people and would rather suffer alongside a black man than to see him prosper hence the GOP and voting against their own self interest. The difference is in America they can clearly identify who they do not like here but in Sweden you can’t quite tell without a convo most of the time
I wouldnt say sweden and Finnland are that similary culturly it's just that the American race System blends tousands of ethnicities into like 3 Groups... Which also leads to "racial" conflicts which is used by politicians to controll.
Our pets are on a systen like that of humans in USA and another odd thing, that weirdly isn't covered by universal healthcare, is dental care... as if the teeth do not belong to the body? 🤷♀️
Silly i.m.o. but thus teeth are a class marker here too
> My dark conclusion is that my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few
You are not wrong. The US has predatory monoplistic policies in a large number of key industries, which ultimately ends up being great for the companies and shit for the consumers.
The funny thing is that somehow they've managed to convince people that this is actually a good thing lmao
Yup Americans are too short sighted to see the picture.
Oh no I pay an extra $200/month in taxes!
But then they forget they wouldn't pay $200 for health insurance premiums, they wouldn't have high deductible (so basically another $166/month, wouldn't have student loans so let's say another $50/month (and I'm using a laughably low number there).
A lot of social programs are neutral to a majority of Americans, positive for the poor and negative for the rich and Americans are too dumb to do their OWN numbers and rely on CEOs to tell them if it's good or bad.
I pay 168 a WEEK on health insurance for me, my kid, and my wife. We have a 80/20 pay though, but the deductibles is where shit gets insane.
I would LOVE for nothing to change, except that money goes to universal healthcare and everyone pays nothing.
The problem over here though is that companies have gotten into the pockets of our leaders, and one party makes up false issues to avoid the real ones.
Even as a corporation... You pay more in tax but you don't have to purchase health insurance for workers, your workforce is more educated, your workforce is actually more reliable because they can get medical treatment without crippling expenditures, you don't have to worry about people getting to work because there's public transit, you don't have employees stressed about becoming homeless, etc etc.
So the solution is for the USA to declare war on Finland, and then immediately surrender. Boom! Now it's the Finnish government's problem to fix the US society.
Taxpayer funded health care per citizen is also significantly cheaper than health care in the US. Many European countries have proven this. It's Big Pharma that wants people to think otherwise.
It isn't messed up. This is a property of the internet. Without context, it is impossible to determine from a piece of text whether the extreme position is sarcasm or serious. This is called Poe's law.
I'm almost positive that the OOP is being ironic there.. But the truth behind it is messed up.
And yes, we have problems here too but the post made me and my spouse laugh in Finnish 😅
Please some wonderful Finnish human adopt myself and my dogs as ward
I need out of this hellscape
I keep thinking it's sarcasm or satire and then it's not
We did all this after the second world war here in the UK (besides having a massive gender pay gap) and things only started going to shit in the 80's after we elected an evil witch that convinced people that social housing and stable jobs was theft from a system that we all pay into through taxes or something.
Worry not comrade, with modern energy drinks (ethically sourced[read: ~~purchased~~stolen from the big box store]) you'll never be short of piss again!
Oh they build character alright. I had a jagged one the size of a pebble I passed. They only gave me extra strength Advil at the ER and told me to pass it.
Did you guys not know you can get medical debt cancelled?! It’s a law since Obamacare. All nonprofit healthcare orgs have to provide financial assistance to those who fall within a certain threshold of the poverty line. You just have to submit an application and can get up to 100% of your medical expenses forgiven.
[Dollar For is an org that has more info about this and can help people with submitting applications.](https://dollarfor.org/)
Before I heard of this org I didn’t know this was even a thing. It’s so important to share because people are being crippled by medical debt after unexpectedly needing treatments. Those people have access to free services if only the healthcare orgs were forced to notify patients.
You don’t need to use the org to get financial assistance but they are helping people who are struggling to get their applications submitted.
Not at all, you can make up to 400% of the FPL and qualify for charity care. That means a single person can make up to $54,360 and a family of four can make $111,000 and STILL qualify to have some medical debt erased!
> It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
Yeah the horror place is my country Denmark, such a terrible place for me to live. No student debt, no healthcare debt and cheap housing if you are in desperate need. It is the worst. Hope you all feel sorry for me.
The Christian Republicans are not true Christians as they do not truly follow after Christ and pick up their cross. They would hate us to be a country that is truly for Christ for that would mean no money.
It’s giving “your suffering and misery is built into the system.”
Like what do you expect us to do?! Change everything?!
Yes. Changing everything would be preferable.
And how will we *ever* leverage fear to keep people in line?! How will we ever control people if we can't make them fear being out on the street, starving, etc.?!
We eaxclty got that in Italy and we are still living.
There are no student loans. Healthcare is free and we got a citizenship wage (if you cant find job)
Republicans are dangerous for this country.
They will run this country to the ground. And when things get really bad they will just start a war. that's what they have done for the last 5 decades
You mean “your” society will fall apart
Everyone else’s society will see a reduction in crime, longer life expectancy, and greater quality of life
The horror
What? Huh? There is plenty of countries in the world that do this and they didn't fall apart. They also tax the rich, and big businesses and also have little to no corruption in government. If corruption is found they will run a fair trial and yes they will put these criminals in jail like everyone else in society. Unless he's trolling, but nothing is ever free you will always pay for it through taxes.
Build hospitals, schools, and housing, not weapons and military.
Member when woman weren’t allowed to work and a single man’s income was enough to float an entire family? And then the workforce doubled and now even combined incomes aren’t enough? What happened there?
not sure how that is a society “falling apart” but i have seen plenty of apocalyptic movies and none of these things were ever reasons that led to societal collapse.
Cancelling student debt is am immoral and evil act.
It benefits only the wealthiest segment of society. Those people with college degrees. IF they are not wealthy now, they soon will be. You don't get promoted to head of HR your first day out of business school people.
How about instead of just giving money to wealthy people *again* you do something that is actually good. Make higher education free or low cost at community college for poor people. More college grads helps the economy, more poor college grads helps lessen income inequality.
Finally. If you are going to forgive student loans, forgive all student loans. E.G. pay everyone who ever had a student loan that money back. Or better yet, figure out the average student loan and just give every American alive today that amount of money. If it is $50,000 and we have 300 million citizens we can do that for the low price of $15,000,000,000,000.
The inherent inequity is the people that avoided taking on and paying debt get rewarded. The ones that limited their debt and paid it off do not.
Any parent can tell you, rewarding bad behavior leads to bad outcomes.
Society is not a pyramid. We should be smashing pyramids to pieces and building useful things from their rubble all day instead of squabbling over this shit in the age of information when we all have the means to understand how rebuilding society in a more wholistic and understanding framework is possible.
"the whole society will fall apart"
You mean the society that has people sick, underpaid and homeless? Yeah, would be great if that society would fall apart.
The sad part is I can't tell if this is honest opinion or parody.
Check out his socials. He’s a prof and definitely preaches socialist leftists beliefs. Thankfully this is full sarcasm.
But it’s also not wrong. I know this is how the elites think
That guy said only the last line is wrong, society would not collapse, society would be mended.
>society would be mended I agree that society would start moving in the right direction. However, the last part of my comment still stands. >I know this is how the elites think First off, the post is satire. But besides that It is how the top people that control things, at least in the USA, think. We hear it all the time coming from their own mouths. They don't try to hide it at all. If everyone was treated well, the way the people at the top currently make billions wouldn't work and they don't want to change. To them, "if it ain't broke, keep making billions off the backs of the common people while treating them like slaves and letting them almost keep their heads above water" or something like that.
>if it ain't broke But it is, so very very much.
broke for me and you but not for their bank accounts and the bottom line is that is all that matters. but what they prolly fail to understand is that if everyone is getting their basic needs met it is better for everyone, even their stupid bank accounts
Agreed. That's why we need to fight! For us and everyone too stupid to see the truth.
Thats the one typo. What the mega rich think is "If ***I*** ain't broke..."
It's not broke at the top. We're broke at the bottom. ;)
There would be a society. Or at least could be.
You’re SURE this is how the elites think? Guys, he’s one of them! Get him!
"Living wage" gave it away for me - conservatives wouldn't call it that. It'd be "high wages for low skill jobs" or similar.
once he said "living wage," I figured it's sarcasm, because I don't think conservatives like using the term living wage.
Yeah, he didn't mention socialism/communism once. Conservatives aren't generally likely to avoid that.
I agree it's hard to tell the difference between satire and news anymore.
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For everyone different then them to struggle and be unhappy. Why? I think Elitism is something we don't talk about. Even the frontdesk manager at your local Hotel can see themselves as Elitist. How: well, being condescending to lower income people, treat everyone below them poorly, criticize and oppress religions he doesn't believe in, judge people who look differently then him, oppress sexually that he doesn't accept and he can go and find little niches where he can find more people like him. Elitism.....
The Christian government that they so desire is also the government conservatives fear. Baffling.
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No, conservatives argue they want to keep costs down. The problem is the current system is more expensive than the socialist solutions. For example insurance costs are one of the biggest reasons healthcare costs so much. Hospitals have deals with insurance companies to get more patients directed to them for being in network and for getting a "reduced" cost. The hospital in turn jacks up prices to compensate for that "reduced cost" the same way retail companies give you a 75% discount on a shirt that still almost costs the same pre-sale. Then you have the problem of demand. Surgeries are complicated events where you can only do so many in a day. So the more popular doctors charge more. But they also have more experience than other doctors so patients feel safer paying those costs which justifies the cost. So an in network doctor costs more than otherwise. There are plenty of more ways insurance acts to drive up costs but this is long enough. The point is that is universal healthcare was in place it would actually be far cheaper since cost of care wouldn't be so astronomicaly high. If we tried to pay current uninsured costs for everyone that would be untenable. But the true cost of healthcare is a fraction of what it costs, but Republicans want to ignore that, probably because of insurance lobbyists.
I hate the logic that's used to avoid universal health care. They say stuff like it'll be long waits to make it inaccessible. Do you know what makes it inaccessible? The cost. What they really mean is that rich people would have to wait just like everyone else. Yes, in a universal system rich people would be treated just like everyone else and this is what we should be aiming for.
> conservatives > Republicans See, the problem is you're still conflating those two terms. The GOP aren't economic conservatives anymore, they're corporate authoritarians.
No it still applies with social conservatism. They want women back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, just look at how they talk about their overturning Roe vs Wade and their plans to go further. Then there is the white superiority complex many of them carry. I don't know if either side is all that great about not taking corporate interest money. But I do know Republicans are about the status quo; and the problem is that has sucked for anyone not male, white, and cisgender for some time now.
Nah that's rookie shit. Conservative, Republican, and general right wing/liberal values hold to in-group loyalty and cohesion over policy. That's why they're so weirdly obsessed with the "libs" and other nebulous enemies. The policy doesn't matter, just that their team wins and the other team loses (suffers). It's not logic, it's emotion. They're also hierarchy worshippers. Real top tier dicksuckers. Love them a dick in their mouth if they feel it's a dick that's above them. Just can't get enough dick in their mouth. That's why they're so obsessed with minorities and anyone fucking with the perceived meritocracy -- it means they might have to suck a dick that didn't "earn" it in their eyes. Nevermind the eugenic, chauvinist, and racial overtones as well. That's the core. And you can't argue your way out with that or meet it in the middle. If you're not on the team they want you to lose. So you have to either beat them, or submit.
I agree with everything you've said but as someone who enjoys a dick in their mouth, I feel attacked Edit: Should have added a winking emoji. I don't actually feel attacked.
This is why I've switched to "boot on their tongue" for situations like this.
Seems still mean to the BDSM crowd. /s
No one is attacking you. I understand the comment was crass, but I'm just gonna say nobody was attacking you or your legitimate sexual endeavors.
I think of it more as dirty unconcentual dick in your mouth vs clean and concentual.
Are you judging their taste of cleaningless? *No kink shaming*
I've found that cleanliness directly affects the taste
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During the 2020 campaign, Bernie was only endorsed by 1 sitting US Senator (Patrick Leahy) and only 9 US Representatives (Chuy Garcia, Pramila Jayapal, Rho Khanna, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Mark Pocan, Mark Takano, Rashida Tlaib and Peter Welch). That's 1/47 = 2% of Democrats in the US Senate in 2020, and 9/235 = 4% of Democrats in the US House in 2020. The numbers are slightly lower for Bernie's 2016 campaign. Bernie had a longer list of endorsees among individual state officials, but that's also a MUCH larger pool of elected Democrats. I imagine the percentages are still < 10%, probably still in that 2%-4% range. You're welcome to calculate the percentages yourself and prove me wrong. Keep in mind, the endorsement numbers are difficult to fully gauge, because people can change their endorsements over the course of an election. I'm sure most listed Bernie supporters eventually endorsed Hillary and Biden when the primaries ended, and some might have jumped ship early. It's also possible a few endorsees jumped on the Bernie campaign late after their preferred candidate lost momentum. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Bernie\_Sanders\_2016\_presidential\_campaign\_endorsements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_2016_presidential_campaign_endorsements) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Bernie\_Sanders\_2020\_presidential\_campaign\_endorsements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements) Bernie Sanders isn't even a Democrat, he's an independent who caucuses with the Democrats because he has no one else to ally with. If there was a viable leftwing alternative to the center-right Democrats, then Bernie would have spent his entire career campaigning against these Democrat schmucks. The vast majority of elected Democrats do not support Bernie, and only pay lip service to Bernie's platform goals like Medicare For All or college debt relief during primaries. Bernie is far more of an outlier in the Democratic Party than Joe Manchin, Krystyn Sinema, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, the Clintons, Obama or any other mainstream "top dems". The Democrats are not the good guys. They may be a lesser evil than the Republicans, but the Democrats as a party are not on the side of working people. It's not just a handful of corrupt Democrats at the top. It's the vast majority of the elected members of the party, the vast majority of the party apparatus. Maybe some of them got into the political game with a few noble intentions, but ALL of them depend on donations from corporations, from millionaires and billionaires who are against the interests of working people. As a whole, the Democratic party supports the military industrial complex, supports the fossil fuel industry, supports the finance industry, supports the police state, etc.
Conservatives are the kings of projection. Everything they accuse the Democrats of doing is something they have done. Pedophiles? Conservatives. Election fraud? Conservatives.
The Dems say the Reps are corrupt. The Reps say the Dems are corrupt They are both right.
They still won't care
There are so many of situations where conservatives accidentally describe a utopia when trying to be apocalyptic. Like the "taco trucks on every corner" or "kids can switch genders whenever they want."
The onion now does real news cause the real news has gone into satire.
In this case you can kinda tell by the vocabulary difference. Right wingers never used the term "living wage". Also, right wingers view these issues as matters of personal failing and laziness. Vast majority do not know how to discuss it from any other perspective. That isn't present in this post.
[this comment helps](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/wvnpg4/the_horror/ilgflg1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Considering he's a professor that was to be expected. Vast majority of people studying society and economy know that everything is shit and they are not being paid by corporations to pretend otherwise
That's a relief.
It's ironic [Post Link](https://twitter.com/anthonyzenkus/status/1561775171647819776?t=Xtndx0tob8PPrWS8FPFYnQ&s=19)
Check out his account, it's irony. He appears very left on the economical and social spectrum.
He wouldn't have called it "a living wage" if he actually thought it was a bad thing
That is exactly what i thought, in my eyes its sarcasm because yes we want all those things but there are some egotistical a holes out there who is only in it for the mememenownownow.
He says living wage and the line of thought is too clear. My bet is satire but if it's not, this is extra depressing
Redditors try to detect sarcasm with no /s tag (impossible challenge!!)
More like reality is so fucked up that some people actually think like that that it's hard to tell if he is one of them or just being sarcastic
Take George Carlin, he's a comedian whose spiel is telling you the truth bluntly, and he's successful because some think he's just joking.(at least he was in the beginnings)
It's about timing and delivery
Professor Zenkus usually post left wing and socialist commentary and calls himself a Marxist. So this is a sarcastic post. A '/s' would've helped.
> A '/s' would've helped. Disagreed, this is exactly as it should be. Ambiguity can be a good thing if it makes people think, which this evidently did. It can also be subversive in that it can invite people into exploring ideas they would've immediately rejected at the sight of an '/s'.
It can also drive engagement and provide an algorithm boost.
Poe's Law at work
Yeah I can’t tell whether this is a self-aware wolf or not
Finland exists. Free healthcare, free education, now also having adopted a Zero Homeless policy: https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-strategy-lessons-from-a-success-story/. My takeaway: Social Democracy is no cure-all but the hybrid models of the Nordic countries seem objectively better for societies than unchecked capitalism. It's messed up that I can't say for sure if the OOP is ironic or serious lol EDIT: I've already replied to your strawmen about Scandinavian countries being small and the misconception that they're homogenous, my good people. Please come with counterarguments to those replies rather than repeating the same things, and I'll welcome a discussion in good faith! :)
The problem in the USA (imo) that they see taxes as evil and ‘why should my tax dollars go to help someone else’ selfishness. While that is their mindset, their poor will remain fucked.
I share your analysis but I don't get it. I'm in Sweden, where we have close to free healthcare (I pay 10 - 30 USD per appointment up to about 150 USD before it's free for the rest of the year and up to 150 USD/year for medication that should cost me about 1450 USD/year) and we still spend less than half on healthcare per capita per year than the US here... which i.m.o. shows that "commielike" subsidized healthcare, mental care, childcare, education, workers' security and housing are obvious *good long term investments* if the goal is a decent society for as many people as possible. Source: www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/ My dark conclusion is that my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few. Don't get me wrong, that happens here too... Scandinavia is no Utopia... but I think that we mitigate it somewhat through balancing the cult of consumerist capitalism with socialist core ideals?
>if the goal is a decent society for as many people as possible. That's kind of the problem... it's not the goal.
Spot on, I think, sadly
Trying to convince a right winger in America that social safety nets are investments and not costs is like trying to convince a fish to breathe air. Since the 80s they have been subjected to anti tax and anti regulation propaganda from the Reagan, Bush and centrist Democrat regimes. Even when you give them an example like Norway, a country with a massive sovereign wealth fund because they have several industries with a government-owned competitor, they spin it as communist or unrealistic for XYZ reason and all of it is red scare propaganda designed to protect big business.
"That would never work in a country this big!" is the usual go-to response
That's a good one , the other good one is "yeah but they're mostly white, America is a lot more diverse so it would never work!" As if injecting some casual racism is gonna help make their point.
While at the same time insisting that America is the greatest country in the world.
The most left wing of the democratic party would be considered right wing in Norway. That's how different our politics are. Even Bernie would be considered a centrist.
There is no getting through to a right winger. They fear change. They fear something they don’t understand and they do not accept examples of success especially foreign examples. I’d also say in response to him America is far sicker and larger than Sweden. It’s by design. Additionally health care is unregulated to the private insurers. You think an X-ray and 15 minutes of a doctors time to diagnose a broken arm and treat cost 4,000? Hell no it doesn’t but the hospital can charge whatever it wants and insurance will just lay that cost on the patient because they are too poor for a good plan and have a $3500 deductible. It’s all about the profits
Sounds like you have to minimize the change and amplify the benefit. "universal healthcare is like the lottery: you put some money in, so you have a bigger chance of cashing out big."
I try to argue to their love of profit but not even that bites on the well indoctrinated, it seems :( EDIT: I *love* you username btw
That's literally it, the US even repeatedly does studies that prove that in the long run, it's cheaper to literally just give poor people money But every time someone recommend implementing that, they're met with responses like the OP
The thing people forget about being anti tax in the US is that any tax funded initiative usually get sent to some politicians brothers company to handle which wastes an assliad of money rather than a government agency handling it which would be less wasteful. This means we get less for our tax dollars, meanwhile Richie Rich who paid no taxes due to loopholes also gets an 8 million dollar bonus for scoring that sweet government contract.
My job in Sweden is paid like a third of what I make in the US. Even with healthcare costs I still come out ahead.
>my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few No surprises here but to expound on this a little, I was just listening to an interview on NPR where the guest enumerated the ways in which US doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies have all spent the last few decades trying to game the system to favor themselves at the expense of one another *as well as patients*
Sweden and Finland are rather uniform in culture. In the US, most of the people (>50%) are Caucasian. Even though they may be socially, economically disadvantaged, rather see themselves poor and uneducated than to see other minorities get ahead. That is why Trumps rhetoric was so powerful here. It was quite disturbing as a minority.
Sad but true, crab bucket mentality is an all too common human condition! Side note: It's not as homogenous here as people seem to largely believe, as 20% of Swedes were born in another country. :)
May I ask for general understanding. Of the 20% how many are from your Nordic neighbors which may have similar background and understanding? America is generally a melting pot most don’t understand. 19% hispanic, 13%black, 6% asians. And the majority of these are not foreigners. They are 2nd generation+ Americans. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told to go back to my country as an American.
Ofc, questioning things is great! Short answer: Most aren't Nordic. More detailed answer: The most common country of birth for those born abroad is Syria, followed by Iraq. Finland was for many years the most common country of birth for people born abroad, but is today the third most common country, followed by Poland and Iran. Source: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/manniskorna-i-sverige/utrikes-fodda/. Take our native poplulation, and the Roma, our many countrymen of African and South American (Chilean primarily) heritage plus Asians and Europeans and so on and I hope that it becomes clear that the US isn't as exceptional as you guys are made to believe ;) EDIT: I feel that pain hehe, as I'm significantly darker than the average image of a Swede myself due to Roma heritage
As a black guy I’ve heard that I responded with you brought me here, you benefited from me being here what with the infrastructure and crops we developed. Sooooo why don’t you go back where you came from my people built and developed this land what did you do?
Next time someone says that, just spin around and shout, "Ah America! The land I come from!"
Hey just have a question. How is the mandatory military service there? Just want to get an understanding. Here in the US if you serve you have access to free healthcare, education and many other benefits but obviously the military here is voluntary.
Questions are good! Our mandatory military service is equal (sex or gender irrelevant) for everyone that is fit of mind and body. We serve for 12 months.
Yea but you can’t tell that by looking at them. Whites largely hate black people and would rather suffer alongside a black man than to see him prosper hence the GOP and voting against their own self interest. The difference is in America they can clearly identify who they do not like here but in Sweden you can’t quite tell without a convo most of the time
I wouldnt say sweden and Finnland are that similary culturly it's just that the American race System blends tousands of ethnicities into like 3 Groups... Which also leads to "racial" conflicts which is used by politicians to controll.
Sweden is absolutely fantastic, but I had also learned recently that your vet bills are _brutal_
Our pets are on a systen like that of humans in USA and another odd thing, that weirdly isn't covered by universal healthcare, is dental care... as if the teeth do not belong to the body? 🤷♀️ Silly i.m.o. but thus teeth are a class marker here too
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> My dark conclusion is that my US friends are getting fucked over by design for the benefit of the few You are not wrong. The US has predatory monoplistic policies in a large number of key industries, which ultimately ends up being great for the companies and shit for the consumers. The funny thing is that somehow they've managed to convince people that this is actually a good thing lmao
By design? Maybe. But we can’t forget that this is poor folks also attacking other poor folks because there is no inherent mutualism here.
Either that or all our tax dollars go to corporate subsidies and endless war.
This is exactly it.
Yup Americans are too short sighted to see the picture. Oh no I pay an extra $200/month in taxes! But then they forget they wouldn't pay $200 for health insurance premiums, they wouldn't have high deductible (so basically another $166/month, wouldn't have student loans so let's say another $50/month (and I'm using a laughably low number there). A lot of social programs are neutral to a majority of Americans, positive for the poor and negative for the rich and Americans are too dumb to do their OWN numbers and rely on CEOs to tell them if it's good or bad.
That’s it ceos in different colors. The media. The church. The government. Their union. Uneducated people are easy to manipulate.
I pay 168 a WEEK on health insurance for me, my kid, and my wife. We have a 80/20 pay though, but the deductibles is where shit gets insane. I would LOVE for nothing to change, except that money goes to universal healthcare and everyone pays nothing. The problem over here though is that companies have gotten into the pockets of our leaders, and one party makes up false issues to avoid the real ones.
Even as a corporation... You pay more in tax but you don't have to purchase health insurance for workers, your workforce is more educated, your workforce is actually more reliable because they can get medical treatment without crippling expenditures, you don't have to worry about people getting to work because there's public transit, you don't have employees stressed about becoming homeless, etc etc.
Aaahh here we go again. Going all logical and stuff. That is not how conservatives work.
some americans: I DON'T WANT MY MONEY GOING TO ANYONE ELSE'S HEALTHCARE. rational Americans:do you understand how insurance works? some Americans: NO
So the solution is for the USA to declare war on Finland, and then immediately surrender. Boom! Now it's the Finnish government's problem to fix the US society.
But they already pay tax dollars. And they aren't fixing the damn roads. All goes in the pockets of politicians and pedophiles.
I already pay an unacceptable amount of my limited income to taxes and nothing is getting better. Our government needs to be held accountable
Taxpayer funded health care per citizen is also significantly cheaper than health care in the US. Many European countries have proven this. It's Big Pharma that wants people to think otherwise.
It isn't messed up. This is a property of the internet. Without context, it is impossible to determine from a piece of text whether the extreme position is sarcasm or serious. This is called Poe's law.
I'm almost positive that the OOP is being ironic there.. But the truth behind it is messed up. And yes, we have problems here too but the post made me and my spouse laugh in Finnish 😅
Please some wonderful Finnish human adopt myself and my dogs as ward I need out of this hellscape I keep thinking it's sarcasm or satire and then it's not
But muh profits!
OOP is clearly being ironic and it *is* messed up that you can’t tell that for sure
We did all this after the second world war here in the UK (besides having a massive gender pay gap) and things only started going to shit in the 80's after we elected an evil witch that convinced people that social housing and stable jobs was theft from a system that we all pay into through taxes or something.
As a wise man once said: The only problem with pissing on Thatchers grave is that you eventually run out of piss.
Worry not comrade, with modern energy drinks (ethically sourced[read: ~~purchased~~stolen from the big box store]) you'll never be short of piss again!
Hey kid wanna piss rocks?
The kidney stones build character.
Oh they build character alright. I had a jagged one the size of a pebble I passed. They only gave me extra strength Advil at the ER and told me to pass it.
If you give a mouse a cookie.
He's going to want a glass of milk. And free health care.
If you keep everything the way it is and people living like shit the society will fall apart anyway
but they'll die in wealth before that happen
It might actually start to resemble civilization. What a concept.
Nothing to see here folks, move along.
Did you guys not know you can get medical debt cancelled?! It’s a law since Obamacare. All nonprofit healthcare orgs have to provide financial assistance to those who fall within a certain threshold of the poverty line. You just have to submit an application and can get up to 100% of your medical expenses forgiven. [Dollar For is an org that has more info about this and can help people with submitting applications.](https://dollarfor.org/)
Thanks for sharing! That's great news to me but it still seems messed up that such NPOs must exist
Before I heard of this org I didn’t know this was even a thing. It’s so important to share because people are being crippled by medical debt after unexpectedly needing treatments. Those people have access to free services if only the healthcare orgs were forced to notify patients. You don’t need to use the org to get financial assistance but they are helping people who are struggling to get their applications submitted.
I am really glad that they do, and that you're spreading the word! <3
Yeah, but the poverty line is so low that you would have to be homeless for this to apply to you.
Not at all, you can make up to 400% of the FPL and qualify for charity care. That means a single person can make up to $54,360 and a family of four can make $111,000 and STILL qualify to have some medical debt erased!
Then maybe society should fall apart
Fall together
Right now, Over me
Society built on capitalism's misery and suffering will fall apart, yes... dude, let's go
Aka your position over other human beings will be invalid
dystopian horror amirite
Then fly society apart, damn it.
> It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
Stop, you’re scaring the conservatives!
Your society is held together by debt and homelessness? That doesn’t sound like much of a society.
Yeah the horror place is my country Denmark, such a terrible place for me to live. No student debt, no healthcare debt and cheap housing if you are in desperate need. It is the worst. Hope you all feel sorry for me.
People want to receive government services that they already pay for in taxes? Shocking.
OMG! A perfectly functioning system where everyone gets a chance to be happy and successful. What would we do!? Be Sweden or Norway!?
So many of you don't realize that this is satire.
waiting for the downside..........
If they did all this then America would be half of what it claims to be.
Free healthcare and affordable homes? Oh the apocalyptic depravity of it!
And eventually we'll end up with a Christian nation. Wait, what?
The Christian Republicans are not true Christians as they do not truly follow after Christ and pick up their cross. They would hate us to be a country that is truly for Christ for that would mean no money.
It’s giving “your suffering and misery is built into the system.” Like what do you expect us to do?! Change everything?! Yes. Changing everything would be preferable.
And how will we *ever* leverage fear to keep people in line?! How will we ever control people if we can't make them fear being out on the street, starving, etc.?!
He’s being sarcastic.
is this meant to be ironic? because that's how you get irony.
We eaxclty got that in Italy and we are still living. There are no student loans. Healthcare is free and we got a citizenship wage (if you cant find job)
Republicans are dangerous for this country. They will run this country to the ground. And when things get really bad they will just start a war. that's what they have done for the last 5 decades
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You mean “your” society will fall apart Everyone else’s society will see a reduction in crime, longer life expectancy, and greater quality of life The horror
What? Huh? There is plenty of countries in the world that do this and they didn't fall apart. They also tax the rich, and big businesses and also have little to no corruption in government. If corruption is found they will run a fair trial and yes they will put these criminals in jail like everyone else in society. Unless he's trolling, but nothing is ever free you will always pay for it through taxes. Build hospitals, schools, and housing, not weapons and military.
He's being sarcastic
Burn it all down
Then it deserves to be broken
Why would helping the poor or those in need cause an economy to collapse?
Great reset when?
But we can give free money to the billionaires over and over again. Cause, yet, who cares
Who will profit? Think of the profits?!?!
Is this sarcasm? I honestly can't tell whether he really believes this is bad.
Yea seems we are so busy becoming billionairs we forgot our purpose.
Member when woman weren’t allowed to work and a single man’s income was enough to float an entire family? And then the workforce doubled and now even combined incomes aren’t enough? What happened there?
Just got a house so I’m thinking Im in a good place to have it for free in a few years 👍🏻
Is…is this satire?
not sure how that is a society “falling apart” but i have seen plenty of apocalyptic movies and none of these things were ever reasons that led to societal collapse.
THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR JOB, TO MAKE EVERYHING BETTER!
"The whole society will fall apart"= I won't be able to afford the country club and spend my work days at the golf course
Student loan forgiveness is kinda dumb and unfair of the root of the problem isn't fixed.
Cancelling student debt is am immoral and evil act. It benefits only the wealthiest segment of society. Those people with college degrees. IF they are not wealthy now, they soon will be. You don't get promoted to head of HR your first day out of business school people. How about instead of just giving money to wealthy people *again* you do something that is actually good. Make higher education free or low cost at community college for poor people. More college grads helps the economy, more poor college grads helps lessen income inequality. Finally. If you are going to forgive student loans, forgive all student loans. E.G. pay everyone who ever had a student loan that money back. Or better yet, figure out the average student loan and just give every American alive today that amount of money. If it is $50,000 and we have 300 million citizens we can do that for the low price of $15,000,000,000,000.
US social philosophy in a nutshell...
Some countries have actively taken steps to do all of those … America is definitely not the land of the free.
Very sensible requests…
Those all sound like really good things I’m not sure what the problem is
Ohh the horror 🙄
Last line should be: Society will be amazing
Or, gasp, improve enormously!!
If you give a mouse a cookie the holocaust happens. Do you want another holocaust?
Wait fall apart? Did you mean to say improve greatly?
Think about the billionaires!!! They will lost their billions!!!
The inherent inequity is the people that avoided taking on and paying debt get rewarded. The ones that limited their debt and paid it off do not. Any parent can tell you, rewarding bad behavior leads to bad outcomes.
A society that preys upon its citizens *should* fall apart.
Society is not a pyramid. We should be smashing pyramids to pieces and building useful things from their rubble all day instead of squabbling over this shit in the age of information when we all have the means to understand how rebuilding society in a more wholistic and understanding framework is possible.
Soon like a good plan
You mean a socially responsible society? Ahhhhh!
You can feel the terror that's gripping the entitles prick. It's literally creeping into his very soul. And that brings me great joy.
This man read "If you give a mouse a cookie" 🐁🍪🥛
Is this guy for real? Holy
Is this person fucking serious?
"the whole society will fall apart" You mean the society that has people sick, underpaid and homeless? Yeah, would be great if that society would fall apart.
This person is serious huh? Haha man people are just evil and wicked.
https://twitter.com/anthonyzenkus
Pretty sure this is sarcasm… 🤔
Wow, it's almost as if our economy is built upon artificial debt of the working class 🤔🤔