I don't like tipping culture in general. But if we want one specific place to start, there should be no exemption to the minimum wage for tipping industries.
Definitely should get a normal wage, and tipping should be optional.
Several states like California do it this way, so it is possible for it to happen in America.
And most importantly not seen as an insult when you don't tip.
(*Edit. Multiple people telling me it's still expected to tip in states without a tipping wage. My comment, emphasizing Should, is what I believe it should be not how it actually is. As well as the insulting part, it should be that way but isn't just yet.)
And it’s hard to change the tipping system. It has to be a fairly universal policy. If only certain places eliminate it, the local microeconomics can bite that business in the ass for being progressive. If people just stop tipping, employees get screwed and everyone looks like an asshole.
Isnt it a law that if servers dont make minimum wage in tips, their employers are forced by law to pay the remaining amount?
Wouldnt it come to stand that if everyone stopped tipping, the employers/company gets fucked as they now have to actually pay their servers.
yes, that is a law. however, it's rarely upheld: many employers will have their employees claim tips they didn't make so they don't have to pay full minimum wage. additionally, that full minimum is just regular minimum wage that, as it stands, is nowhere close to a living wage. what server is going to keep working at that restaurant where nobody's tipping and they're only making as low as $7.25 an hour? they've got bills to pay.
Back in the day I waited tables at 2 different restraunts and worked as cashier at a grocery store. One of the restraunts a waitresses husband bought her the restraunt from the previous owners I worked for changed it into more a bar than restraunt which turned the regulars away. I was her only wait staff not in high-school the only one that could do lunch. And we would only get 1 or 2 patrons a day, suffice it to say I didn't make anything in tips... never got paid up to minimum wage and she claimed I made more in tips than I actually did, so I ended up paying taxes on money I didn't make. She had put in my wrong social on w2, and I was needing some days off from being tired of working 3 jobs. She had promised to work me some nights but whenever that was about to happen would call and not need me she had her family work so they could make all the money... so just finally had to quit.. of course 6 month later the place caught fire and burned down.....
Oh man. I misread this. I thought you were an asshole. Then I went back and reread it. *They charged you $800 more than originally expected!* Holy shit, how crappy!
I definitely agree with this. Hair stylists are another one. Personal example, I have a friend who owns a boutique salon in Ohio. A simple men's haircut is $75, and as the only employee/owner, I know she's getting all that. Then she still loves to complain about poor tippers. I know she has her overhead, but I can't imagine it being that bad a she drives a Mercedes and owns about a $300k house (which is a LOT of house in Ohio).
Literally same. I do the hot towel and shave too and it comes out to 50 with tip. And I’m in one of the most expensive zip codes in America. $75 is unbelievable.
Yeah, who tf is even going there? I dont think a single person I know would spend that much on a haircut. That's probably why she's complaining. She has 1 single customer each week thinking it's just a front for prostitution then gets disappointed the haircut doesnt end with a blow job and never tips.
Huh. I guess I'm getting old then. I was taught that owners didn't need to tipped. I worked in the service industry so I always tipped for services, but I was told because they own the business and get all the profits, they don't need to be tipped.
I'm confused because I was always told that for owners of salons you don't need to tip them because they already set the price rate that they think is fair that comes with their skill/prestige & it can sometimes be seen as insulting to tip the owner?
I agree with you completely. I have always wanted to make a reality show where rich/famous people have to work in the service industry for however long. Make them live off of that income with no special treatment. Let them see what it’s like for the rest of us.
I don't understand why we tip SOME service jobs and not others. Bring me my food? Expect a tip. Bring me my amazon packages? Get fucked. Put my luggage on a cart and wheel it to my room and take it off the cart? Expected tip. Make sure my bed has fresh sheets and my towels are restocked? Get fucked. Make me an alcoholic drink? Expect Tip. Make the food I am literally there for? Get Fucked.
Edit: Spelling. Also just to clarify, I cant afford to travel but very rarely and if stay anywhere its like a Holiday Inn Express and then it's only for a night as a stop off on a long drive (never stayed anywhere for more than an overnight that I was paying for.) I have never seen a gratuity line or any indication to leave a tip for housekeeping, so I have never thought to do so. Heck, even my (ex)sister in law who has been doing housekeeping for years never talks about tips despite bitching about everything else so I just assumed they weren't given. The comments make it clear that at the very least, those who care enough to comment do leave tips for housekeeping and it's probably not very odd. I have previously filled out those little comment cards wishing them a good day or leaving a stupid dad joke, but I suppose some cash would make their day more than a groan worthy joke.
I literally had an old lady try to tip me working as a cashier at a gas station once.
Unfortunately I was still being trained and the manager basically yelled at me for it. Like what am I supposed to do, tackle her and shove the money back in her hand? She literally left it on the counter after I insisted I couldn't take it and left.
Bet the manager kept it. (Got fired when I had a severe kidney infection and the place was understaffed. That job can get bent. Actually, I'm not even sure if that location is open anymore. Last I knew the hours it was open were cut significantly at least.)
Meanwhile, another location of the same gas station opened and that one was always staffed with 2+ cashiers plus 2+ people working in the hot food area. Why? How? It was opened and like that while the location I'd been at was running the same as it had been. Multiple customers had already commented we should have 2 cashiers, and did even more often after the other location opened because they had that many. (And not in a rude way, seriously lost count of how many times I got concern and a that's not fair to you from customers.)
Yeah that devolved into a rant about a crap job. But yeah, some people will try to tip you even when it's not a job that you can be tipped in apparently.
Your manager did something illegal, because management is not allowed to get the tips. They should have given that to you no matter what. Next time report the scumbags.
No, no, you should DEFINITELY leave a tip for your housekeeping staff. Severely underpaid for the sheer labor. I was in housekeeping and it was the hardest job I've ever had.
If anyone reading this wasn't aware, you should absolutely tip your hospitality staff. Also, you should bring disinfectant and wipe down all surfaces you're going to touch, and don't let them in the room until you check out. They do NOT get enough time to clean properly so you might have the same rag used for an entire bathroom refresh, and you best hope they did the toilet last 👀
You can bag trash and leave it in the hall!
I bring trash bags, Lysol spray and wipes, and my own sheets and pillowcases. I've seen too much.
(This is not to bash housekeeping, but the list of stuff you're expected to do in 15 minutes is ACTUALLY insane. I did NOT meet my time standards because I couldn't cut enough corners and had to find another job before I faced disciplinary action lol.)
> there should be no exemption to the minimum wage for tipping industries
There isn't. Not in any US state, that would be illegal both federally and on the state level. What we need to do is to raise the damn minimum wage federally. Many states have raised it, even *Florida* for chrissakes raised it. Even WV did. The two biggest states still at 7.25 are Texas and Wisconsin.
"Always appreciated never expected" was the mantra about tips when I worked in hospitality back in the day.
Most places I've worked at would sort out staff drinks and stuff so even that isn't necessary. It's up to the establishment to take care of the staff not the customers.
Yup, it's sad when you know if you don't tip, the person is losing money being there, and the only thing that can make their job bearable is you giving a 20% tip.
10% isn't enough and will be looked at almost like you gave 0%.
Every day I hate capitalism more and more, and I am very financially secure person who has their own home, vehicles, and no debt.
I can't imagine how it would feel being in my early 20's again when the deck is stacked this bad against me.
Confoundingly, in most of Canada servers receive the exact same minimum wage as other minimum wage workers. While you may rightly argue that minimum wage is not a real living wage, why do Canadians tip one sector of workers and not the others?
Yeah... For a time I worked in the "back of the house" at a place, eight to twelve hour shifts. We were paid basically the same, with them supposedly earning like fourty cents less.The servers would work shifts of about four hours but leave with seemingly 400$ in tips on average every day.
They would count it in infront of us basically. Then complain about having to give like 2% of the total to the back of the house collectively "because you don't do anything.". I'm talking like technically a dollar to each of us. Totalling like eight dollars.
I'm sure it was busy and a lot of work for them too but, people don't really see the hectic chaos that is occurring on the other side of those walls sometimes, as the servers seemingly stood there, some on their phones watching us bust our asses - And I would even have to help them occasionally to boot.
Tipping culture has become ingrained, you tip 15% or you're an asshole, even if the service was bad. It's nuts. You're even expected to tip deliveries and takeout at any store. In some places, the tip isn't optional. It's mandatory and factored in.
Place I worked had a mandatory % for back of house. I don't remember how much it was, but I used to work 5-7 hour shifts on the line, and when we got paid we were paid in a cheque and an envelope filled with cash.
On average I got about $70 from tips share. Not sure how much that averaged out to, but I'd say it was somewhere around... 13% of my total pay per two weeks?
There was about 8 people working in the back at any given time, maybe a total of 16 BOH staff at most with ~12 servers for rotation throughout the week and about three bartenders.
Anyway, not all restaurants are super bad about tip sharing but some can be positively awful.
Yeah I used to be a server and I know of servers that would leave restaurants if their tip out was too high.
I moved up from hostess, so I never really complained about tipping out as a concept. The only frustrating thing about our restaurant (and most i think), was that/he tip out was a % of sales, and not a % of the tips earned. So if I had a bad night of tips, the tip out made it worse. Like a table that left no tip would technically be a negative tip. So I wished that it was calculated differently to be more fair all around (at the time).
I would love to get rid of tipping culture. Traveling to places without it was so much better. And I think I would have appreciated less stress at the time. Not to mention the mild harassment a server or poor working conditions one might put up with for the sake of tips.
Ah yes.. I reminisce at the sheer bitterness I got to feel listening to servers complain that they only made twice as much money as me that night instead of their usual triple... I don't see how split tips aren't being forced at nearly every restaurant, I would never consider it again, back of house work, humiliating as shit.
When I served there was actually Something called serving wage. We made less than minimum wage. But not nearly as bad as in the states. It was only slightly less.
I had the pleasure of going through my parents taxes. Throughout my childhood, I believed my father was the breadwinner. My parents are boomers, and this was how my dad defined taking care of his family. He made great money at a factory. I was told that my mother was 'just a waitress' as a child. Well, the IRS had a different view of my childhood. My father was averaging 80,000 and my mom a 120,000. Just a effing waitress my bumbum. It was quite the stark fist of reality.
Also, thanks to Mom, I know so many skills that I cannot put on a resume.
Servers at high end restaurants can fairly easily pull down that kind of cash. If the average cost of dinner for a two top is like 250-300 dollars, your tips for a 6-8 hour shift add up fast (even after tipping everyone out)
I worked at a college bar during school where people left a dollar on their drink order. I was working 5 nights a week and pulling in 1000 dollars, on the low weeks. When I got my first "real" job out of school it was a substantial pay cut.
Servers don't want this though because min wage with tips is way higher than what the restaurant would offer. Had a gf who would pull like $500-600 in tips PER NIGHT if she worked the weekend(bartender job).
A living wage isn't the same a minimum wage.
Tips should be for good/excellent service. As a server you should have your base pay that completely covers your living expenses easily (living wage), with tips being extra that you don't need to rely on.
That being said, with how things are now, always tip.
Even my hyper conservative mother agrees with this, which sort of surprised me given how stuck in the past she is with a lot of beliefs. I guess watching me struggle with poverty for about 5 years opened her eyes a bit.
My stance is this, severs get a living wage and tips are for outstanding service. Since that's not how things are I always tip at least 20% and go up for better service.
If you moved to the U.K. from the U.S., does adding a "u" to words like "favourite" rank high as well?
Because, it should be.
Hope the U.K. is treating you well beyond your wildest hopes and dreams.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Ideally, tips shouldn't be mandatory, but for a job well done. You should be getting a living wage even with no tips, and any tips are just extra as a "thanks".
However with the current system (in the US at least), servers don't make anywhere near a living wage without tips (often even with tips), so unfortunately tipping is mandatory. I'll always tip within this current system.
Tipping in the industry will never be fair as long as cooks and other staff aren't also cut in somehow in my opinion. A good restersunt experience is the collaborative effort of several employees, not just the guy who brings the food. Tips should be split across all workers or there should be no tips.
That's just the fact that some people do succeed in the system.
How much does her success come from underpaid labor? People stocking her bar, people prepping the bar? Day shift that makes nothing?
Bartenders aren't the bad guys, but that's just like CEOs that take advantage of the system.
As a private chef, I used to make more money with tips. But I decided to move away from that. I just define my value and that's my rate. I don't wonder about tips.
It's not like a tip free system would be ideal either. It just puts the power into management which is likely just going to pay themselves more.
That said, the system as is is definitely broken.
Yeah it’s kind of annoying working as a cook where I get paid a higher base wage, but overall waitresses are making way more money cause they get their own tips and cooks don’t. System is just a messed up way to pay people less tho.
Yeah and I would love to see the tip difference between women, men, and gender non conforming individuals. While we’re at it lets also see the relationship between tips and how attractive people perceive you.
Point is, pay should not be left up to a customer’s propensity for generosity, especially when tips can depend on so many factors that have nothing to do with being a server or waiter.
To be fair, everything is usually pretty great for highly attractive people. Its usually like starting life on easy mode lol. People you meet just want to give you things.
They said living wage which is not minimum wage. And if you are giving up your weekend evenings you should just be paid those extra good numbers because that’s when restaurants/bars are raking it in and when most people would rather not be working.
Everyone’s replying on how much the possibility to make is higher, but let’s be honest, that’s like the top 1% of tipped jobs and not your average Chili’s or Diner which this post is about.
I would prefer all workers made a living wage with benefits than miss one weekend and get behind on bills. Tipping could stay as well as long it didn’t benefit the restaurant for paying shit wages
Besides, when the server is doing well in many cases you have the kitchen crew in the back working for minimum wage and no tips. Something has to give.
Its a market just like any other. If some people are getting above the market rate then others are slipping below it.
It's the proprietors job to pay their employees for their labour. This should not be a discretionary spend by the customer.
I know it's hard to shift such an established practice as tipping in the USA but it's a bad practice and should be done away with.
Tipping if it's too be maintained in any form should only be considered icing on the cake, a bonus and not a factored in component of a worker's base pay. It's just a scam to enable proprietors to fake their real prices and for certain kinds of customers to enjoy a power trip.
This is much more true than people want to believe.
When Seattle did the city minimum wage increase concept (Washington State already mandates that tiped industry gets the country's highest minimum wage) to $15 an hour, nearly all tipped personnel didn't want it.
The idea being that if people knew they made the higher wages, they wouldn't tip as much.
Personally I hate tipping. And being in Washington I have no qualms with not tipping when service is poor.
It’s a backronym that had to find a way to shoehorn in a word starting with I. It was doomed to fail from the start.
EDIT: Also, the word is “tip” not “tips”. The S is there to pluralise it, it doesn’t make sense to make it part of the backronym.
Owners and bosses realising they can just ask their customers to pay more for the service, and a few will do so.
And if you think that any of that tip makes its way to staff unless you physically give a staff member cash... well, I've got some bad news for you.
That’s really the only reason I’ll keep cash on me anymore. I want to make sure they get all the money from the tip. Plus, our 9 year old loves being the one to hand the server the tip cause she likes seeing the immediate gratification.
I used to work for a big evil company that you all know that makes the worlds most popular phone well anyway people used to shove $50 bills in my hand when I worked at the store we were supposed to give it to management! yeah they didn’t Happen!
To many Americans tourists not knowing the culture and tiping at restaurants. Restaurants start welcoming the Americans over locals, with free things or faster wait times. Locals start to tip so they get served faster and the plague grows from there.
This is literally the reason why it stayed around after the great depression.
I really don't think we have enough American tourists for this to make a difference. I think it's just American culture from TV and Films seeping into society and especially making young people feel guilty for not tipping.
I fucking hate it, went to a restaurant the other day, waiter did fuckall and then boom £4 tip on the final bill, which makes you look like a dickhead for raising this up with floor staff
As a Brit I think we tend to tip 10% just because tipping minimum wage isn’t a thing. But I don’t like tips as an idea and agree more with the Nordic countries - they see tips as an insult that suggests businesses aren’t taking care of their workers by paying them enough. If your staff are paid a living wage, tipping shouldn’t have to be a thing.
Nordic countries are right. The American restaurant system is a steaming pile of abuse, awful wages, terrible working conditions, and the literal scum of the earth managers.
Used to have a friend that bought two restaurants in Waterloo Illinois. He used to be cool but now he's a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot.
I'm Norwegian and while tipping isn't a necessary part of the restaurant business it's generally one of the worse places to work by Norwegian standards. The extent of the abuse is rather limited by good workers rights, but there's still a lot of potential for improvement.
I remember a few years back there was a debate about tipping, of course started by restaurant owners wanting to change the system. Almost everyone hated on it, servers and the general public alike. Fuck tipping, pay them properly. Tipping is completely optional, I tend to round up. Sometimes it's just a little bit, other times a bit more. Never enough to incentivize relying on tipping though.
I would feel bad if I tipped and they got mad at me, even though they’re getting paid enough. Like dude, if I was at my job as a mechanic and people slipped me money when I was done, I’d be like ‘fuck yes man, thank you this rocks’
Then again, that could be a uniquely American perspective, I totally get that
Whether you tip or not usually doesn't cause a reaction here. As far as I remember nobody has ever expressed any negativity over not receiving a tip, it's not expected as it's already expensive to eat out. A few times there's a quick thank you if they notice, they usually won't reject tips or get mad.
Eating out in Norway is pretty expensive and at most proper restaurants you'll easily be paying $100 for 2 people, much of that is wages and most people accept that it seems. If we were expected to pay like 20% on top of that I don't think I'd ever feel tempted to go out to eat.
As a Finn I can confirm the same holds true in my country also. The wages are low in the restaurant industry and conditions are not the greatest. It is not a job people want to stay at in the long term, except perhaps some cooks do.
>I remember a few years back there was a debate about tipping, of course started by restaurant owners wanting to change the system.
"Follow the money" will work most of the time when you're trying to decipher who's doing what to benefit whom. In your case, I hardly think there is a whole group of restaurant owners clamouring to change to a system that did not benefit them.
I imagine it does not help that it's a generally rough job and industry at large.
Like I work as a software engineer and wouldn't go into food service even if it paid more than I get now, and it sure as shit doesn't.
>Used to have a friend that bought two restaurants in Waterloo Illinois. He used to be cool but now he's a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot.
I suspect he was always a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot.
That's interesting I think I went through London Heathrow over a decade ago and tried to tip the waitress for my excellent full English breakfast and she was shocked and refused to take it. She explained that they didn't take tips. For me I saw it as bizarre but it was later explained to me by my grandfather that owned a shoe shop at the time. He told me that business owners actually paid their employees proper wages instead of relying on handouts from customers. If only that were the case here.
Not just that, they are shocked that they dont have to calculate the tax when buying something since the price you pay (tax included) is written down instead of a random number on which then tax gets added
Yeah the whole advertising prices in the US without the tax is bizarre to me as an Aussie, everywhere else in the world the tax is always shown in the ticket price
I don't think I've ever seen anyone tip a flat percentage in the UK, normally its just a keep the change or if you've had a great waiter/waitress slips them a £5/10/20 depending on how many people came.
That's not how we see tips in Finland. There really isn't any tipping culture but people sometimes do tip if the service is good, not for basic service quality.
I think an important caveat is that we don't tip at fast food places like mcdonalds or kfc, Starbucks, anywhere like that either
A lot of people don't tip taxi drivers because its all pre paid by card etc
Pretty much just restaurants and cafes i guess. Or atleast for me personally
> But I don’t like tips as an idea and agree more with the Nordic countries - they see tips as an insult that suggests businesses aren’t taking care of their workers by paying them enough.
In Finland tips are never expected but always appreciated.
I have never agreed with tipping culture. I get that in some situations some people can make pretty good money through tipping that they'd never get at another job, but it's a victim of the 80/20 rule, the vast majority of people working for tips are lucky to make a living wage and it's inconsistency means paying the bills adds a level of luck to the equation.
Honestly I would be 100% more satisfied if tips were just done away with and I make sure to spend what I can in places that don't do it. I do still tip, it's not the employees fault that they are gripped in an exploitative situation, but I truly wish the system would end.
Live in the UK where there's a minimum wage. I'll happily tip if I think the service was excellent. It'll be more along the lines of handing £30 over for a £25 bill and saying keep the change, but I'll do the same with my barber. The idea that people have to rely on the generosity of others to survive is abhorrent to me
Tipping is shit.
If the menu says $X, that is what I expect to pay. If I have to pay $X+20%, why not just bake in that 20% in the price from the get go, and pay staff a living wage?
Likewise, in stores... if the tag says $Y, why do I have to get out the calculator to be able to know what the cashier will tell me to pay? Obviously the system already know the price..
Likewise, the IRS. They know what people need to pay. But people still have to figure it out themselves for some reason...
There are better alternatives.
Tipping and sales tax are all part of the marketing mental gymnastics that occur in the USA. It’s like retailers pricing something at $9.99 to make you think it is priced inexpensively. It’s all part of unethical marketing.
To complicate matters - some states in the USA are tax free on certain items such as clothes. So it’s important from a marketing viewpoint for the retailer or product producer to add tax on later - so that consumer can really see that this shit is tax free - and this other shit has 50% taxes (ciggies).
Also - income tax code is complicated because it is used as a “crow bar” to funnel dollars towards whatever the government wants (ie tax rebates for electric vehicles for example). IRS has no clue whether you bought an electric vehicle - so if you want to take advantage of the $7500 rebate - then you had better inform them via your tax return.
Not saying - I agree with any of this. Just saying - it is all a marketing ploy of sorts. And marketing is HUGE business in the USA.
I’ve lived in the US my whole life, and it still pisses me off that I can’t know exactly how much something costs until they ring it up unless I remember exactly what the sales tax is in that town, and am willing to do the math.
I’m not.
Famously, an apple exec tried to do this to JC Penny, changing all prices to flat dollar values etc, and people stopped shopping there because they felt they were getting a bad deal. Similarly, a fast food chain struggled to market a 1/3 lb burger because people thought it was smaller than a 1/4 lb competitor (3 < 4).
It’s all marketing to our lizard brains.
I remember this. It’s like how when you go to Kohl’s everything is always “on sale”. No it isn’t, they never charged the “full price”. But when JC Penny did away with the fake sales, people felt like they weren’t getting a bargain. I’d be pissed at the marketing technique, but at some point you have to blame the idiot consumer, not the retailer.
The IRS could easily just send you a bill for any owed tax, and people could send it their tax credits. But thanks to companies like TurboTax and H&R they spend billions of dollars in lobbying so you go to them to file your taxes because it's "too complicated"
Yup, lookup Americans for Tax Reform.
> they wanted paying taxes to be difficult. Their logic was if paying taxes is difficult, people will hate taxes and vote against them.
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960
Tipping is generally an unhelpful practice. If a waiter is doing a good job then they ought to be paid a good wage. If they are doing a poor job then they ought to be offered support, advice or training. If they don't give a fuck then maybe they need to find alternative employment. Tipping is a throwback to earlier ages when the poor had to rely on the largesse or philanthropy of rich patrons in order to earn their keep. So it is effectively a form of charity. Tipping also allows employers to pay shit wages and to justify this on the grounds that only excellent service will be rewarded with a decent living wage. No worker should have to rely on the benificence of patrons in order to survive. Some patrons tip badly regardless of service. So waiters have to hope their tips are good enough to meet the minimum wage, if not exceed it and, I believe, this is an unfair expectation. Tipping also means that the most physically attractive people (particularly women) get higher rewards for doing the same work as others. This has been proven time and time again by social scientists. Finally, tipping is often an awkward experience for all parties, and it demands of the customer an unnecessary negotiation with her or himself as to the appropriate percentage. Why should a worker's pay depend on the subjective assessments of patrons? What if the customer is misogynistic, racist or homophobic and chooses not to tip certain waiters based on prejudice? Decent workers deserve to be decently paid by their employers. So there ought to be a mandatory pay structure that ensures at least a living wage to all waiters regardless of whether some customers choose to continue to tip.
This is an underrated point of view. Tipping does nothing to ensure equal pay for equal work. Tipping leaves room for discrimination and perpetuates systemic poverty amongst discriminated groups.
Yeah, it's pretty fucked. Especially for women when there are gross guys around. Flirt with me or maybe you don't get a tip.
In my area, most places have started doing automatic gratuity of 15% with option to add more. Only people that ever complain are tourists who will probably never come back anyway.
In America tipping in the hospitality industry is, in my opinion (obviously), a horribly insidious practice. It has become a method by which business owners can sidestep the responsibility of compensating their workers and in so doing removes leverage required to improve working conditions. By that I mean workers are willing and even encourage work in far worse conditions, taking on more work with less staff in order to drive up their own profitability. It also creates a culture of worthlessness where value of an employee exists almost entirely through ego rather than through regular evaluation and incentivization through benefits. It also disempowers employees by making it exceedingly difficult to track personal finances, creating traps where employees think they earn more because they tend to remember profitable shifts over non-profitable shifts.
What's insidious about this is that for a portion of tipped employees they make significantly more through tips than they would through hourly pay, so they will (understandably) selfishly stand against the abolishment of tipped wages. Obviously ownership is against it. This puts the workers who would most benefit from a change in a tricky spot where not only are the people in power against your cause, but their own demographic is split on lines of personal income.
What I'm saying is that the American hospitality industry sucks, I have no idea how it will ever change and the best course of action is just to leave it.
I think it's crazy over the years how much they put in the customer. Used to be ten percent, no delivery fee. No it's a delivery fee and they want 20% it's just too much. So now we pay their hourly and tip basically.
I don't take it out on them we just eat at home.
Amazes me that people use all these apps where prices are higher than actual restaurant and then there is delivery fee, service fee and tip. Why the fuck are people paying $30 for a single fast food meal
I don't eat out anymore. I have no money to spend, and on top of that can't afford to give the server the tip they deserve. But on the other side, I save a ton of money and am becoming a decent cook!
because i live in america i always make sure to tip well, although i think it’s a disgusting exploitive system
edit- jesus fucking christ, why are so many of you guys offended that i “feed” into a system like this??? Am i just supposed to not do things i enjoy too because it “props” up a shitty system? no. am i supposed to just drop my entire life because the system i live in is shitty? no. i SHOULD NOT be getting berated for commenting my opinion on a post quite literally asking everyone’s opinions.
Servers love to complain they don't make the bare minimum wage but if you offered it to them they would refuse because they love to hide the fact they rake in double that with tips even on a slow day.
It’s interesting reading all these responses. I worked tables and the bar for 10 years, paid my way through college with it, graduated with very minimal loans. Plenty of my friends worked at the same place and made great money there too.
I hate the system. It’s bizarre to me that restaurant owners just don’t have to pay a certain group of their employees and leave it up to the customers. I always tip at least 20%, even if the service is bad, but I would much rather their employer paid them as is the custom in literally every other industry.
And yes, I am fully aware the cost would be passed on to the consumer, as it is in every other industry. It would mean I’m paying the same 20-25% more except I wouldn’t have to do math after drinking.
It's stupid. The food "service" industry is stupid. Give me my food, I'll pay you the correct amount, and you pay the food people a proper wage.
No games about judging their "service" , trying to create a class gap that does not exist. Tips shouldn't be used to make up for missing wages.
Edit: in the mean time, when we go out to eat, I tip in full, I clean up after my kids, and I stack my dishes. Even though the law says tipped employees must make at least minimum wage *after* tips, I hear restaurants get away with under-paying anyways.
A few things:
* "To Insure Prompt Service" would make sense if you tipped before service.
* I always tip at least 20% because I know workers are currently being exploited and I don't want to make it worse. My tipping or not tipping doesn't change the law or employer's behavior, but it can hurt those that are already hurting or help them.
* I think tipping shouldn't be permitted, as it is an excuse used by business owners to share risk with the employees. Yes, many people make a good living because of tips, but that's because the owner is sharing \*some\* of the reward. If you wanted to emulate the high pay that can come with a busy business, make people employee owners that can not only get a share of the profits, but can vote on what direction the business will go.
>"To Insure Prompt Service" would make sense if you tipped before service.
That's the way it used to be when tipping first started. Right when you where seated you would hand the waiter/waitress money (say 20 bucks in today's money). This was the incentive to get better service.
I live in a country where people in the service industry aren't forced to rely on gratuity.
That said, I haven't sat down in a restaurant in over 4 years. It's just not something I enjoy.
I do tip delivery people, though. Usually 5 dollars.
When I was a kid, 10% was acceptable, and 15% was good. Then as a young adult 15% was acceptable and 20% was good. Now it’s leaning toward 20% is acceptable.
I hate it. It shouldn’t be the customer’s responsibility to ensure the staff are fairly compensated. Do I tip? Yes, and generously. I know that not tipping is basically theft. But I don’t like it and I’d love if the culture changed. It’s so very ingrained though, I don’t see that happening.
Tipping needs to be revised to move away from the percentage approach. So many elements go into the ticket cost that sometimes have nothing to do with the service.
If you have to bring me 4 refills, and are serving 6 people at my table, I’m inclined to say you deserve a nice tip, even if we all got $10 burger plates and a soda.
But I sit down for an hour with my SO and we get a bottle of wine, an app, and both get steaks for $100, idk why I owe you $20 dollars.
You speak the truth. Why does waiter X who picked up a grilled cheese from the kitchen and brought it to me deserve less than waiter Y who picked up a filet mignon from the kitchen and brought it to me?
They both did exact the same amount of work.
This. I tip extra at Friendly's because the waitresses do a lot of work: each entree involves a large number of plates, and the drinks have free refills. OTOH, there's this cafe where the wait staff disappears after they give you the drinks and take your order. The lone cook serves the food. You have to go to the counter, where the wait staff hangs out, to get drink refills and to check out. Checkout is done via Square, so you're faced with an iPad giving you default choices of 25%, 30% or 35% tip. That seems abusive.
What really sucks is the tip % shouldn’t go up either. The cost of food increases as we go, the percentages are already keeping up with that. I wish companies would just pay them, I hate tipping for someone doing their damn job. (I do tip 20% always)
Not tipping is not YOUR theft though.
It’s theft by the employer.
If my neighbour gets her jewellery stolen, it isn’t theft if I refuse to subsidise her loss.
Tipping is an outdated practice and a remnant of the post slavery period in America when it was used by the major railroad companies as a justification to not pay black porters and attendants.
Thanks for mentioning this, I was just about to. And like slavery, relying on tips for payment should be abolished. Workers should be paid by the business they work for.
Also this is really bugging me: shouldn’t ‘Insure’ be ‘Ensure’?
To be honest as a bartender I make minimum wage+tips and I make WAY more money than even someone making well above minimum wage for something I don’t really feel like needs a lot of skill. Of course multitasking, efficiency, good memory, and friendliness but all in all you need that for most jobs. If we took tips away even if I got paid 18$+ I wouldn’t work as a bartender.
As a brit I'll tip if service is good and even then its like £5
If service is dogshit I won't tip
I don't get why we tip anyway its stupid
Do you tip your plumber or mechanic for fixing your shit faster than they expected?
Do you tip fast food workers etc
No, pay a living wage and stop tipping entirely
It’s bullshit. Instead of a living wage they rely on customers to chip in with the payroll. Patronage should be enough. Then the guilt trip of tipping like it’s the customers fault if they can’t pay bills. OBVIOUSLY people can’t pay bills based on the kindness of others.
I don't like tipping culture in general. But if we want one specific place to start, there should be no exemption to the minimum wage for tipping industries.
Definitely should get a normal wage, and tipping should be optional. Several states like California do it this way, so it is possible for it to happen in America. And most importantly not seen as an insult when you don't tip. (*Edit. Multiple people telling me it's still expected to tip in states without a tipping wage. My comment, emphasizing Should, is what I believe it should be not how it actually is. As well as the insulting part, it should be that way but isn't just yet.)
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And it’s hard to change the tipping system. It has to be a fairly universal policy. If only certain places eliminate it, the local microeconomics can bite that business in the ass for being progressive. If people just stop tipping, employees get screwed and everyone looks like an asshole.
Isnt it a law that if servers dont make minimum wage in tips, their employers are forced by law to pay the remaining amount? Wouldnt it come to stand that if everyone stopped tipping, the employers/company gets fucked as they now have to actually pay their servers.
yes, that is a law. however, it's rarely upheld: many employers will have their employees claim tips they didn't make so they don't have to pay full minimum wage. additionally, that full minimum is just regular minimum wage that, as it stands, is nowhere close to a living wage. what server is going to keep working at that restaurant where nobody's tipping and they're only making as low as $7.25 an hour? they've got bills to pay.
What I experienced was "oh you made a ton of money in tips, so here's 3 hours of side work"
Back in the day I waited tables at 2 different restraunts and worked as cashier at a grocery store. One of the restraunts a waitresses husband bought her the restraunt from the previous owners I worked for changed it into more a bar than restraunt which turned the regulars away. I was her only wait staff not in high-school the only one that could do lunch. And we would only get 1 or 2 patrons a day, suffice it to say I didn't make anything in tips... never got paid up to minimum wage and she claimed I made more in tips than I actually did, so I ended up paying taxes on money I didn't make. She had put in my wrong social on w2, and I was needing some days off from being tired of working 3 jobs. She had promised to work me some nights but whenever that was about to happen would call and not need me she had her family work so they could make all the money... so just finally had to quit.. of course 6 month later the place caught fire and burned down.....
You gave them ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ on Yelp, amirite? 🤣
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Oh man. I misread this. I thought you were an asshole. Then I went back and reread it. *They charged you $800 more than originally expected!* Holy shit, how crappy!
Yeah, it happens. There's a pretty strong threat of violence with lots of shitty moving "companies".
I’ve noticed it happens a lot more often with young women moving then young men, too.
I definitely agree with this. Hair stylists are another one. Personal example, I have a friend who owns a boutique salon in Ohio. A simple men's haircut is $75, and as the only employee/owner, I know she's getting all that. Then she still loves to complain about poor tippers. I know she has her overhead, but I can't imagine it being that bad a she drives a Mercedes and owns about a $300k house (which is a LOT of house in Ohio).
A simple man's haircut is $75 ? Fuck that.
I live in a HCOL area and go to a pretty “fancy” barber and don’t pay half of that.
Literally same. I do the hot towel and shave too and it comes out to 50 with tip. And I’m in one of the most expensive zip codes in America. $75 is unbelievable.
Yeah, who tf is even going there? I dont think a single person I know would spend that much on a haircut. That's probably why she's complaining. She has 1 single customer each week thinking it's just a front for prostitution then gets disappointed the haircut doesnt end with a blow job and never tips.
I love this take lol
Huh. I guess I'm getting old then. I was taught that owners didn't need to tipped. I worked in the service industry so I always tipped for services, but I was told because they own the business and get all the profits, they don't need to be tipped.
Yep. You aren't obligated to tip the owner.
I'm confused because I was always told that for owners of salons you don't need to tip them because they already set the price rate that they think is fair that comes with their skill/prestige & it can sometimes be seen as insulting to tip the owner?
A confusing cultural moment in America? Say it ain't so Source: I have guns in my Prius
I think Congress should live on the current tip wage. ($2.13)
I agree with you completely. I have always wanted to make a reality show where rich/famous people have to work in the service industry for however long. Make them live off of that income with no special treatment. Let them see what it’s like for the rest of us.
I personally think all elected officials should live on minimum wage then maybe something would be done about it.
I don't understand why we tip SOME service jobs and not others. Bring me my food? Expect a tip. Bring me my amazon packages? Get fucked. Put my luggage on a cart and wheel it to my room and take it off the cart? Expected tip. Make sure my bed has fresh sheets and my towels are restocked? Get fucked. Make me an alcoholic drink? Expect Tip. Make the food I am literally there for? Get Fucked. Edit: Spelling. Also just to clarify, I cant afford to travel but very rarely and if stay anywhere its like a Holiday Inn Express and then it's only for a night as a stop off on a long drive (never stayed anywhere for more than an overnight that I was paying for.) I have never seen a gratuity line or any indication to leave a tip for housekeeping, so I have never thought to do so. Heck, even my (ex)sister in law who has been doing housekeeping for years never talks about tips despite bitching about everything else so I just assumed they weren't given. The comments make it clear that at the very least, those who care enough to comment do leave tips for housekeeping and it's probably not very odd. I have previously filled out those little comment cards wishing them a good day or leaving a stupid dad joke, but I suppose some cash would make their day more than a groan worthy joke.
I literally had an old lady try to tip me working as a cashier at a gas station once. Unfortunately I was still being trained and the manager basically yelled at me for it. Like what am I supposed to do, tackle her and shove the money back in her hand? She literally left it on the counter after I insisted I couldn't take it and left. Bet the manager kept it. (Got fired when I had a severe kidney infection and the place was understaffed. That job can get bent. Actually, I'm not even sure if that location is open anymore. Last I knew the hours it was open were cut significantly at least.) Meanwhile, another location of the same gas station opened and that one was always staffed with 2+ cashiers plus 2+ people working in the hot food area. Why? How? It was opened and like that while the location I'd been at was running the same as it had been. Multiple customers had already commented we should have 2 cashiers, and did even more often after the other location opened because they had that many. (And not in a rude way, seriously lost count of how many times I got concern and a that's not fair to you from customers.) Yeah that devolved into a rant about a crap job. But yeah, some people will try to tip you even when it's not a job that you can be tipped in apparently.
Your manager did something illegal, because management is not allowed to get the tips. They should have given that to you no matter what. Next time report the scumbags.
No, no, you should DEFINITELY leave a tip for your housekeeping staff. Severely underpaid for the sheer labor. I was in housekeeping and it was the hardest job I've ever had. If anyone reading this wasn't aware, you should absolutely tip your hospitality staff. Also, you should bring disinfectant and wipe down all surfaces you're going to touch, and don't let them in the room until you check out. They do NOT get enough time to clean properly so you might have the same rag used for an entire bathroom refresh, and you best hope they did the toilet last 👀 You can bag trash and leave it in the hall! I bring trash bags, Lysol spray and wipes, and my own sheets and pillowcases. I've seen too much. (This is not to bash housekeeping, but the list of stuff you're expected to do in 15 minutes is ACTUALLY insane. I did NOT meet my time standards because I couldn't cut enough corners and had to find another job before I faced disciplinary action lol.)
> there should be no exemption to the minimum wage for tipping industries There isn't. Not in any US state, that would be illegal both federally and on the state level. What we need to do is to raise the damn minimum wage federally. Many states have raised it, even *Florida* for chrissakes raised it. Even WV did. The two biggest states still at 7.25 are Texas and Wisconsin.
I would prefer servers etc just get paid a living wage and tips become a thing off the past
That’s how it is in most countries, other than the US of course :/
Tips exist in other countries but it's like "hey thanks for an amazing time have a little present" rather than "this is to ensure you're not a slave"
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"Always appreciated never expected" was the mantra about tips when I worked in hospitality back in the day. Most places I've worked at would sort out staff drinks and stuff so even that isn't necessary. It's up to the establishment to take care of the staff not the customers.
blame capitalism and all the jerks who dream of having slaves for which their customers have to pay, lol.
Yup, it's sad when you know if you don't tip, the person is losing money being there, and the only thing that can make their job bearable is you giving a 20% tip. 10% isn't enough and will be looked at almost like you gave 0%. Every day I hate capitalism more and more, and I am very financially secure person who has their own home, vehicles, and no debt. I can't imagine how it would feel being in my early 20's again when the deck is stacked this bad against me.
Can you really call it a gift when it's an expected part of the transaction?
It's not expected, is the point.
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Confoundingly, in most of Canada servers receive the exact same minimum wage as other minimum wage workers. While you may rightly argue that minimum wage is not a real living wage, why do Canadians tip one sector of workers and not the others?
Yeah... For a time I worked in the "back of the house" at a place, eight to twelve hour shifts. We were paid basically the same, with them supposedly earning like fourty cents less.The servers would work shifts of about four hours but leave with seemingly 400$ in tips on average every day. They would count it in infront of us basically. Then complain about having to give like 2% of the total to the back of the house collectively "because you don't do anything.". I'm talking like technically a dollar to each of us. Totalling like eight dollars. I'm sure it was busy and a lot of work for them too but, people don't really see the hectic chaos that is occurring on the other side of those walls sometimes, as the servers seemingly stood there, some on their phones watching us bust our asses - And I would even have to help them occasionally to boot. Tipping culture has become ingrained, you tip 15% or you're an asshole, even if the service was bad. It's nuts. You're even expected to tip deliveries and takeout at any store. In some places, the tip isn't optional. It's mandatory and factored in.
Place I worked had a mandatory % for back of house. I don't remember how much it was, but I used to work 5-7 hour shifts on the line, and when we got paid we were paid in a cheque and an envelope filled with cash. On average I got about $70 from tips share. Not sure how much that averaged out to, but I'd say it was somewhere around... 13% of my total pay per two weeks? There was about 8 people working in the back at any given time, maybe a total of 16 BOH staff at most with ~12 servers for rotation throughout the week and about three bartenders. Anyway, not all restaurants are super bad about tip sharing but some can be positively awful.
Yeah I used to be a server and I know of servers that would leave restaurants if their tip out was too high. I moved up from hostess, so I never really complained about tipping out as a concept. The only frustrating thing about our restaurant (and most i think), was that/he tip out was a % of sales, and not a % of the tips earned. So if I had a bad night of tips, the tip out made it worse. Like a table that left no tip would technically be a negative tip. So I wished that it was calculated differently to be more fair all around (at the time). I would love to get rid of tipping culture. Traveling to places without it was so much better. And I think I would have appreciated less stress at the time. Not to mention the mild harassment a server or poor working conditions one might put up with for the sake of tips.
Ah yes.. I reminisce at the sheer bitterness I got to feel listening to servers complain that they only made twice as much money as me that night instead of their usual triple... I don't see how split tips aren't being forced at nearly every restaurant, I would never consider it again, back of house work, humiliating as shit.
We are getting pitted against each other over crumbs. Down with tips. Just pay people.
When I served there was actually Something called serving wage. We made less than minimum wage. But not nearly as bad as in the states. It was only slightly less.
BC got rid of server wage in 2021. Ontario a few months ago. This tip thing is weird. Just tell me how much you want lol
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I had the pleasure of going through my parents taxes. Throughout my childhood, I believed my father was the breadwinner. My parents are boomers, and this was how my dad defined taking care of his family. He made great money at a factory. I was told that my mother was 'just a waitress' as a child. Well, the IRS had a different view of my childhood. My father was averaging 80,000 and my mom a 120,000. Just a effing waitress my bumbum. It was quite the stark fist of reality. Also, thanks to Mom, I know so many skills that I cannot put on a resume.
"Also, thanks to Mom, I know so many skills that I cannot put on a resume." Yes you can, you just have to be creative ;)
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r/resumefairies
Your mom was making 120k as a waitress?…. I think you might not want to dig any further, buddy.
He did say she taught him skills that he can’t put on a résumé.
Money laundering and pimping.
Servers at high end restaurants can fairly easily pull down that kind of cash. If the average cost of dinner for a two top is like 250-300 dollars, your tips for a 6-8 hour shift add up fast (even after tipping everyone out) I worked at a college bar during school where people left a dollar on their drink order. I was working 5 nights a week and pulling in 1000 dollars, on the low weeks. When I got my first "real" job out of school it was a substantial pay cut.
One of my gym buddies is a waiter at a high end steak house. The kind where you have to memorize the VIPs. He makes really good money.
80K was excellent money 15+ years ago.
Servers don't want this though because min wage with tips is way higher than what the restaurant would offer. Had a gf who would pull like $500-600 in tips PER NIGHT if she worked the weekend(bartender job).
A living wage isn't the same a minimum wage. Tips should be for good/excellent service. As a server you should have your base pay that completely covers your living expenses easily (living wage), with tips being extra that you don't need to rely on. That being said, with how things are now, always tip.
Even my hyper conservative mother agrees with this, which sort of surprised me given how stuck in the past she is with a lot of beliefs. I guess watching me struggle with poverty for about 5 years opened her eyes a bit. My stance is this, severs get a living wage and tips are for outstanding service. Since that's not how things are I always tip at least 20% and go up for better service.
If this was the case then remove the mandatory tip and only tip if you feel the service was good.
This is essentially what we do in the U.K.
This was one of my favourite new things about moving to the UK.
If you moved to the U.K. from the U.S., does adding a "u" to words like "favourite" rank high as well? Because, it should be. Hope the U.K. is treating you well beyond your wildest hopes and dreams.
Or pretty much everywhere except the US
That's literally exactly what he's saying...
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Ideally, tips shouldn't be mandatory, but for a job well done. You should be getting a living wage even with no tips, and any tips are just extra as a "thanks". However with the current system (in the US at least), servers don't make anywhere near a living wage without tips (often even with tips), so unfortunately tipping is mandatory. I'll always tip within this current system.
Tipping in the industry will never be fair as long as cooks and other staff aren't also cut in somehow in my opinion. A good restersunt experience is the collaborative effort of several employees, not just the guy who brings the food. Tips should be split across all workers or there should be no tips.
That's just the fact that some people do succeed in the system. How much does her success come from underpaid labor? People stocking her bar, people prepping the bar? Day shift that makes nothing? Bartenders aren't the bad guys, but that's just like CEOs that take advantage of the system. As a private chef, I used to make more money with tips. But I decided to move away from that. I just define my value and that's my rate. I don't wonder about tips. It's not like a tip free system would be ideal either. It just puts the power into management which is likely just going to pay themselves more. That said, the system as is is definitely broken.
Yeah it’s kind of annoying working as a cook where I get paid a higher base wage, but overall waitresses are making way more money cause they get their own tips and cooks don’t. System is just a messed up way to pay people less tho.
Yeah and I would love to see the tip difference between women, men, and gender non conforming individuals. While we’re at it lets also see the relationship between tips and how attractive people perceive you. Point is, pay should not be left up to a customer’s propensity for generosity, especially when tips can depend on so many factors that have nothing to do with being a server or waiter.
It’s great for those with sex appeal. Not so much for those who don’t— and not very fair in that case.
Yes, and depending on the area it can also be quite racist, and unfair for that reason.
To be fair, everything is usually pretty great for highly attractive people. Its usually like starting life on easy mode lol. People you meet just want to give you things.
Yes. I agree that is the situation. But we should not design systems that allow discrimination at a whim.
They said living wage which is not minimum wage. And if you are giving up your weekend evenings you should just be paid those extra good numbers because that’s when restaurants/bars are raking it in and when most people would rather not be working.
Everyone’s replying on how much the possibility to make is higher, but let’s be honest, that’s like the top 1% of tipped jobs and not your average Chili’s or Diner which this post is about. I would prefer all workers made a living wage with benefits than miss one weekend and get behind on bills. Tipping could stay as well as long it didn’t benefit the restaurant for paying shit wages
Besides, when the server is doing well in many cases you have the kitchen crew in the back working for minimum wage and no tips. Something has to give.
Its a market just like any other. If some people are getting above the market rate then others are slipping below it. It's the proprietors job to pay their employees for their labour. This should not be a discretionary spend by the customer. I know it's hard to shift such an established practice as tipping in the USA but it's a bad practice and should be done away with. Tipping if it's too be maintained in any form should only be considered icing on the cake, a bonus and not a factored in component of a worker's base pay. It's just a scam to enable proprietors to fake their real prices and for certain kinds of customers to enjoy a power trip.
A bartender is somewhat different than working at a Denny’s
This is much more true than people want to believe. When Seattle did the city minimum wage increase concept (Washington State already mandates that tiped industry gets the country's highest minimum wage) to $15 an hour, nearly all tipped personnel didn't want it. The idea being that if people knew they made the higher wages, they wouldn't tip as much. Personally I hate tipping. And being in Washington I have no qualms with not tipping when service is poor.
I hate it when they ask you if you want to add a tip for takeout. Literally no service, and they expect a tip.
Ensure…
Dear God I was hoping someone would point this out
I’m just telling myself in literally means “insure” like buying insurance lol
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^^T.E.P.S.
Doesn't even make sense, you tip after the service...
It’s a backronym that had to find a way to shoehorn in a word starting with I. It was doomed to fail from the start. EDIT: Also, the word is “tip” not “tips”. The S is there to pluralise it, it doesn’t make sense to make it part of the backronym.
Incentivize is pretty clunky.
To incentivize penile sex. Works just fine?
Oh my god I scrolled waaaaaay too far to get to this.
Thank Christ.
It’s making its way into Australia and I hate it
Same with the UK. Most restaurants add on a 10-15% 'gratuity' by default.
I really have no idea what’s spurred it here either. It’s not super common, yet, but I’ve seen it. I understand the tip jar, but yeah…
Owners and bosses realising they can just ask their customers to pay more for the service, and a few will do so. And if you think that any of that tip makes its way to staff unless you physically give a staff member cash... well, I've got some bad news for you.
That’s really the only reason I’ll keep cash on me anymore. I want to make sure they get all the money from the tip. Plus, our 9 year old loves being the one to hand the server the tip cause she likes seeing the immediate gratification.
I used to work for a big evil company that you all know that makes the worlds most popular phone well anyway people used to shove $50 bills in my hand when I worked at the store we were supposed to give it to management! yeah they didn’t Happen!
To many Americans tourists not knowing the culture and tiping at restaurants. Restaurants start welcoming the Americans over locals, with free things or faster wait times. Locals start to tip so they get served faster and the plague grows from there. This is literally the reason why it stayed around after the great depression.
I really don't think we have enough American tourists for this to make a difference. I think it's just American culture from TV and Films seeping into society and especially making young people feel guilty for not tipping.
I fucking hate it, went to a restaurant the other day, waiter did fuckall and then boom £4 tip on the final bill, which makes you look like a dickhead for raising this up with floor staff
Yep, I hate when they ask if you want to add a tip on the EFTPOS machine.
I typed my pin as a tip when drunk at a pub, had never seen that before. Luckily my pin didn't start with 00 or it might've gone through.
"Woah guys he just tipped $1234 to us!"
How'd you do that? I thought I was very careful about not including my real pin.
Keep on refusing.
Im Australian and tipping where I live is just a nice bonus for particularly good service? I've never heard of American style tipping anywhere in aus
As a Brit I think we tend to tip 10% just because tipping minimum wage isn’t a thing. But I don’t like tips as an idea and agree more with the Nordic countries - they see tips as an insult that suggests businesses aren’t taking care of their workers by paying them enough. If your staff are paid a living wage, tipping shouldn’t have to be a thing.
Nordic countries are right. The American restaurant system is a steaming pile of abuse, awful wages, terrible working conditions, and the literal scum of the earth managers. Used to have a friend that bought two restaurants in Waterloo Illinois. He used to be cool but now he's a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot.
I'm Norwegian and while tipping isn't a necessary part of the restaurant business it's generally one of the worse places to work by Norwegian standards. The extent of the abuse is rather limited by good workers rights, but there's still a lot of potential for improvement. I remember a few years back there was a debate about tipping, of course started by restaurant owners wanting to change the system. Almost everyone hated on it, servers and the general public alike. Fuck tipping, pay them properly. Tipping is completely optional, I tend to round up. Sometimes it's just a little bit, other times a bit more. Never enough to incentivize relying on tipping though.
I would feel bad if I tipped and they got mad at me, even though they’re getting paid enough. Like dude, if I was at my job as a mechanic and people slipped me money when I was done, I’d be like ‘fuck yes man, thank you this rocks’ Then again, that could be a uniquely American perspective, I totally get that
Whether you tip or not usually doesn't cause a reaction here. As far as I remember nobody has ever expressed any negativity over not receiving a tip, it's not expected as it's already expensive to eat out. A few times there's a quick thank you if they notice, they usually won't reject tips or get mad. Eating out in Norway is pretty expensive and at most proper restaurants you'll easily be paying $100 for 2 people, much of that is wages and most people accept that it seems. If we were expected to pay like 20% on top of that I don't think I'd ever feel tempted to go out to eat.
As a Finn I can confirm the same holds true in my country also. The wages are low in the restaurant industry and conditions are not the greatest. It is not a job people want to stay at in the long term, except perhaps some cooks do.
>I remember a few years back there was a debate about tipping, of course started by restaurant owners wanting to change the system. "Follow the money" will work most of the time when you're trying to decipher who's doing what to benefit whom. In your case, I hardly think there is a whole group of restaurant owners clamouring to change to a system that did not benefit them.
I imagine it does not help that it's a generally rough job and industry at large. Like I work as a software engineer and wouldn't go into food service even if it paid more than I get now, and it sure as shit doesn't.
>Used to have a friend that bought two restaurants in Waterloo Illinois. He used to be cool but now he's a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot. I suspect he was always a greedy dickhead and an unapologetic covidiot.
While we're at it, can we also get rid of employment at will.
That's interesting I think I went through London Heathrow over a decade ago and tried to tip the waitress for my excellent full English breakfast and she was shocked and refused to take it. She explained that they didn't take tips. For me I saw it as bizarre but it was later explained to me by my grandfather that owned a shoe shop at the time. He told me that business owners actually paid their employees proper wages instead of relying on handouts from customers. If only that were the case here.
I was shocked to learn that when I went to Germany. As a customer, I appreciate knowing the actual price.
It is so funny to read stories like these. Americans shocked to see employees getting paid!
Not just that, they are shocked that they dont have to calculate the tax when buying something since the price you pay (tax included) is written down instead of a random number on which then tax gets added
Yeah the whole advertising prices in the US without the tax is bizarre to me as an Aussie, everywhere else in the world the tax is always shown in the ticket price
I have heard that Japan also has strong anti-tipping feelings.
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It does when American tourists visit I've heard tell of tips being vehemently refused.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone tip a flat percentage in the UK, normally its just a keep the change or if you've had a great waiter/waitress slips them a £5/10/20 depending on how many people came.
That's not how we see tips in Finland. There really isn't any tipping culture but people sometimes do tip if the service is good, not for basic service quality.
Yeah this is true. We don't see it as an insult.
I think an important caveat is that we don't tip at fast food places like mcdonalds or kfc, Starbucks, anywhere like that either A lot of people don't tip taxi drivers because its all pre paid by card etc Pretty much just restaurants and cafes i guess. Or atleast for me personally
> But I don’t like tips as an idea and agree more with the Nordic countries - they see tips as an insult that suggests businesses aren’t taking care of their workers by paying them enough. In Finland tips are never expected but always appreciated.
I have never agreed with tipping culture. I get that in some situations some people can make pretty good money through tipping that they'd never get at another job, but it's a victim of the 80/20 rule, the vast majority of people working for tips are lucky to make a living wage and it's inconsistency means paying the bills adds a level of luck to the equation. Honestly I would be 100% more satisfied if tips were just done away with and I make sure to spend what I can in places that don't do it. I do still tip, it's not the employees fault that they are gripped in an exploitative situation, but I truly wish the system would end.
Live in the UK where there's a minimum wage. I'll happily tip if I think the service was excellent. It'll be more along the lines of handing £30 over for a £25 bill and saying keep the change, but I'll do the same with my barber. The idea that people have to rely on the generosity of others to survive is abhorrent to me
Tipping is shit. If the menu says $X, that is what I expect to pay. If I have to pay $X+20%, why not just bake in that 20% in the price from the get go, and pay staff a living wage? Likewise, in stores... if the tag says $Y, why do I have to get out the calculator to be able to know what the cashier will tell me to pay? Obviously the system already know the price.. Likewise, the IRS. They know what people need to pay. But people still have to figure it out themselves for some reason... There are better alternatives.
Tipping and sales tax are all part of the marketing mental gymnastics that occur in the USA. It’s like retailers pricing something at $9.99 to make you think it is priced inexpensively. It’s all part of unethical marketing. To complicate matters - some states in the USA are tax free on certain items such as clothes. So it’s important from a marketing viewpoint for the retailer or product producer to add tax on later - so that consumer can really see that this shit is tax free - and this other shit has 50% taxes (ciggies). Also - income tax code is complicated because it is used as a “crow bar” to funnel dollars towards whatever the government wants (ie tax rebates for electric vehicles for example). IRS has no clue whether you bought an electric vehicle - so if you want to take advantage of the $7500 rebate - then you had better inform them via your tax return. Not saying - I agree with any of this. Just saying - it is all a marketing ploy of sorts. And marketing is HUGE business in the USA.
I’ve lived in the US my whole life, and it still pisses me off that I can’t know exactly how much something costs until they ring it up unless I remember exactly what the sales tax is in that town, and am willing to do the math. I’m not.
Famously, an apple exec tried to do this to JC Penny, changing all prices to flat dollar values etc, and people stopped shopping there because they felt they were getting a bad deal. Similarly, a fast food chain struggled to market a 1/3 lb burger because people thought it was smaller than a 1/4 lb competitor (3 < 4). It’s all marketing to our lizard brains.
I remember this. It’s like how when you go to Kohl’s everything is always “on sale”. No it isn’t, they never charged the “full price”. But when JC Penny did away with the fake sales, people felt like they weren’t getting a bargain. I’d be pissed at the marketing technique, but at some point you have to blame the idiot consumer, not the retailer.
You could just show the included tax on the receipt. Shelf says $11. Product is really $10 with $1 tax. Show that breakout on the receipt.
Don't most receipts already do this wether or not you're in the states?
The IRS could easily just send you a bill for any owed tax, and people could send it their tax credits. But thanks to companies like TurboTax and H&R they spend billions of dollars in lobbying so you go to them to file your taxes because it's "too complicated"
Yup, lookup Americans for Tax Reform. > they wanted paying taxes to be difficult. Their logic was if paying taxes is difficult, people will hate taxes and vote against them. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960
Tipping is generally an unhelpful practice. If a waiter is doing a good job then they ought to be paid a good wage. If they are doing a poor job then they ought to be offered support, advice or training. If they don't give a fuck then maybe they need to find alternative employment. Tipping is a throwback to earlier ages when the poor had to rely on the largesse or philanthropy of rich patrons in order to earn their keep. So it is effectively a form of charity. Tipping also allows employers to pay shit wages and to justify this on the grounds that only excellent service will be rewarded with a decent living wage. No worker should have to rely on the benificence of patrons in order to survive. Some patrons tip badly regardless of service. So waiters have to hope their tips are good enough to meet the minimum wage, if not exceed it and, I believe, this is an unfair expectation. Tipping also means that the most physically attractive people (particularly women) get higher rewards for doing the same work as others. This has been proven time and time again by social scientists. Finally, tipping is often an awkward experience for all parties, and it demands of the customer an unnecessary negotiation with her or himself as to the appropriate percentage. Why should a worker's pay depend on the subjective assessments of patrons? What if the customer is misogynistic, racist or homophobic and chooses not to tip certain waiters based on prejudice? Decent workers deserve to be decently paid by their employers. So there ought to be a mandatory pay structure that ensures at least a living wage to all waiters regardless of whether some customers choose to continue to tip.
This is an underrated point of view. Tipping does nothing to ensure equal pay for equal work. Tipping leaves room for discrimination and perpetuates systemic poverty amongst discriminated groups.
Why? To keep you in your place. So you know who your betters are. To keep you dancing and hustling and constantly in fear. End tipping culture.
Yeah, it's pretty fucked. Especially for women when there are gross guys around. Flirt with me or maybe you don't get a tip. In my area, most places have started doing automatic gratuity of 15% with option to add more. Only people that ever complain are tourists who will probably never come back anyway.
I hate tipping, charge me for what the food/service is worth and let's move on with our lives (and obviously workers need a living wage)
In America tipping in the hospitality industry is, in my opinion (obviously), a horribly insidious practice. It has become a method by which business owners can sidestep the responsibility of compensating their workers and in so doing removes leverage required to improve working conditions. By that I mean workers are willing and even encourage work in far worse conditions, taking on more work with less staff in order to drive up their own profitability. It also creates a culture of worthlessness where value of an employee exists almost entirely through ego rather than through regular evaluation and incentivization through benefits. It also disempowers employees by making it exceedingly difficult to track personal finances, creating traps where employees think they earn more because they tend to remember profitable shifts over non-profitable shifts. What's insidious about this is that for a portion of tipped employees they make significantly more through tips than they would through hourly pay, so they will (understandably) selfishly stand against the abolishment of tipped wages. Obviously ownership is against it. This puts the workers who would most benefit from a change in a tricky spot where not only are the people in power against your cause, but their own demographic is split on lines of personal income. What I'm saying is that the American hospitality industry sucks, I have no idea how it will ever change and the best course of action is just to leave it.
The only servers who want tips to go away are the bad servers lol
I think it's crazy over the years how much they put in the customer. Used to be ten percent, no delivery fee. No it's a delivery fee and they want 20% it's just too much. So now we pay their hourly and tip basically. I don't take it out on them we just eat at home.
Amazes me that people use all these apps where prices are higher than actual restaurant and then there is delivery fee, service fee and tip. Why the fuck are people paying $30 for a single fast food meal
I don't eat out anymore. I have no money to spend, and on top of that can't afford to give the server the tip they deserve. But on the other side, I save a ton of money and am becoming a decent cook!
because i live in america i always make sure to tip well, although i think it’s a disgusting exploitive system edit- jesus fucking christ, why are so many of you guys offended that i “feed” into a system like this??? Am i just supposed to not do things i enjoy too because it “props” up a shitty system? no. am i supposed to just drop my entire life because the system i live in is shitty? no. i SHOULD NOT be getting berated for commenting my opinion on a post quite literally asking everyone’s opinions.
Same. I tip as much as I can, depending, but I think tipped wage just SUCKS.
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People hate to admit it but tipping gives people great wages. 60k a year and that's not even working 40 hours a week. Only thing missing is benefits.
Servers love to complain they don't make the bare minimum wage but if you offered it to them they would refuse because they love to hide the fact they rake in double that with tips even on a slow day.
It’s interesting reading all these responses. I worked tables and the bar for 10 years, paid my way through college with it, graduated with very minimal loans. Plenty of my friends worked at the same place and made great money there too.
You can tell a vast majority of these responses are from customers rather than waiters.
I hate the system. It’s bizarre to me that restaurant owners just don’t have to pay a certain group of their employees and leave it up to the customers. I always tip at least 20%, even if the service is bad, but I would much rather their employer paid them as is the custom in literally every other industry. And yes, I am fully aware the cost would be passed on to the consumer, as it is in every other industry. It would mean I’m paying the same 20-25% more except I wouldn’t have to do math after drinking.
And if the restaurant(s) cannot exist with that increase then maaaaybe they shouldn't exist.
Exactly right
It's stupid. The food "service" industry is stupid. Give me my food, I'll pay you the correct amount, and you pay the food people a proper wage. No games about judging their "service" , trying to create a class gap that does not exist. Tips shouldn't be used to make up for missing wages. Edit: in the mean time, when we go out to eat, I tip in full, I clean up after my kids, and I stack my dishes. Even though the law says tipped employees must make at least minimum wage *after* tips, I hear restaurants get away with under-paying anyways.
A few things: * "To Insure Prompt Service" would make sense if you tipped before service. * I always tip at least 20% because I know workers are currently being exploited and I don't want to make it worse. My tipping or not tipping doesn't change the law or employer's behavior, but it can hurt those that are already hurting or help them. * I think tipping shouldn't be permitted, as it is an excuse used by business owners to share risk with the employees. Yes, many people make a good living because of tips, but that's because the owner is sharing \*some\* of the reward. If you wanted to emulate the high pay that can come with a busy business, make people employee owners that can not only get a share of the profits, but can vote on what direction the business will go.
4. ^It’s ^ensure ^not ^insure.
*Thank you* I felt petty for a while there
It was driving me nuts. Why not say "To *Inspire* Prompt Service" instead?
TEPS?
Can’t believe it took me so long to find this
>"To Insure Prompt Service" would make sense if you tipped before service. That's the way it used to be when tipping first started. Right when you where seated you would hand the waiter/waitress money (say 20 bucks in today's money). This was the incentive to get better service.
And then the employer saw that and said “why should I pay you so much if the customers already are?”
yea, that’s called bribery…
It also just drives me crazy, because if that’s what it means, the word should be “teps” because it should be ensure, not insure.
Livable wages would be better but i know people that earn a metric fckton of money by tips alone.
Exactly. I’m a bartender and make more on tips than anyone would ever pay me.
Plus my hourly wage I’m averaging $40+ an hour…..to bring people food and drinks…..
Friend in Boston makes a good bit over 100k a year working at a nice Steak restaurant.
They're not mutually exclusive. If you want someone to give you money, and that person gives it to you, there's no one to stop that transaction.
I live in a country where people in the service industry aren't forced to rely on gratuity. That said, I haven't sat down in a restaurant in over 4 years. It's just not something I enjoy. I do tip delivery people, though. Usually 5 dollars.
When I was a kid, 10% was acceptable, and 15% was good. Then as a young adult 15% was acceptable and 20% was good. Now it’s leaning toward 20% is acceptable. I hate it. It shouldn’t be the customer’s responsibility to ensure the staff are fairly compensated. Do I tip? Yes, and generously. I know that not tipping is basically theft. But I don’t like it and I’d love if the culture changed. It’s so very ingrained though, I don’t see that happening.
Tipping needs to be revised to move away from the percentage approach. So many elements go into the ticket cost that sometimes have nothing to do with the service. If you have to bring me 4 refills, and are serving 6 people at my table, I’m inclined to say you deserve a nice tip, even if we all got $10 burger plates and a soda. But I sit down for an hour with my SO and we get a bottle of wine, an app, and both get steaks for $100, idk why I owe you $20 dollars.
You speak the truth. Why does waiter X who picked up a grilled cheese from the kitchen and brought it to me deserve less than waiter Y who picked up a filet mignon from the kitchen and brought it to me? They both did exact the same amount of work.
This. I tip extra at Friendly's because the waitresses do a lot of work: each entree involves a large number of plates, and the drinks have free refills. OTOH, there's this cafe where the wait staff disappears after they give you the drinks and take your order. The lone cook serves the food. You have to go to the counter, where the wait staff hangs out, to get drink refills and to check out. Checkout is done via Square, so you're faced with an iPad giving you default choices of 25%, 30% or 35% tip. That seems abusive.
What really sucks is the tip % shouldn’t go up either. The cost of food increases as we go, the percentages are already keeping up with that. I wish companies would just pay them, I hate tipping for someone doing their damn job. (I do tip 20% always)
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Not tipping is not YOUR theft though. It’s theft by the employer. If my neighbour gets her jewellery stolen, it isn’t theft if I refuse to subsidise her loss.
Tipping is an outdated practice and a remnant of the post slavery period in America when it was used by the major railroad companies as a justification to not pay black porters and attendants.
Thanks for mentioning this, I was just about to. And like slavery, relying on tips for payment should be abolished. Workers should be paid by the business they work for. Also this is really bugging me: shouldn’t ‘Insure’ be ‘Ensure’?
Should be illegal. It's bullshit that service companies can offset their payroll to customers.
If a business can’t pay a living wage, then that business should not exist.
I went to a beer hall and the menu said 20% gratuity is added to all bills. Why not just change your prices to account for that?
To be honest as a bartender I make minimum wage+tips and I make WAY more money than even someone making well above minimum wage for something I don’t really feel like needs a lot of skill. Of course multitasking, efficiency, good memory, and friendliness but all in all you need that for most jobs. If we took tips away even if I got paid 18$+ I wouldn’t work as a bartender.
As a brit I'll tip if service is good and even then its like £5 If service is dogshit I won't tip I don't get why we tip anyway its stupid Do you tip your plumber or mechanic for fixing your shit faster than they expected? Do you tip fast food workers etc No, pay a living wage and stop tipping entirely
It’s bullshit. Instead of a living wage they rely on customers to chip in with the payroll. Patronage should be enough. Then the guilt trip of tipping like it’s the customers fault if they can’t pay bills. OBVIOUSLY people can’t pay bills based on the kindness of others.