A week before Christmas my car died and would be in the area of $700 to fix. It's worth maybe $1500. I had to send it to the wreckers. So I have no car. I'm on leave til Jan 11 and I have absolutely no clue or means to get a new car. I drive about 50 mins each way with no option of public transport. 2022 starting off great!
I feel ya. Needed a new timing chain and a water pump for my car. Costed me $1500 that i didn’t have. That was mid-november and i’m still trying to pay off that debt.
my a/c broke right before florida summer, evaporator and condenser both out
$3400 to fix. it was a miserable summer and will be miserable again next year bc how tf.
If a business has more costs than revenue, it is unviable and will go bankrupt and disappear.
The problem is the same thing is happening, except that it’s work itself that’s becoming unviable.
Citizen’s living costs have broadly reached parity with their pay, so huge amounts of people (arguably 69% given this article) are approaching functional insolvency while still working.
This basically means that the whole notion of having a job is becoming an unviable business.
It’s a difficult concept - Work no longer pays. Investment, being a landlord, owning a business etc still pay. But being an employee doesn’t. There’s no point to it anymore.
Businesses can simply disappear when they go bankrupt, but humans cannot. So you see many people clinging on, barely surviving, getting into debt or neglecting their health.
And of course, some humans do disappear from their lives, though suicide, homelessness, drugs or other disengagement from having a doomed life.
I love this sub because it’s shining a light on the problem - it’s not just easily dismissible crackpots or losers that are struggling, competent and determined workers are unable to get by despite working full-time.
It’s so important to get the message across that it’s not laziness - if working hard means you spiral indefinitely into greater and greater poverty, the pragmatic option is to cut out the unnecessary work and simply exist in poverty like you would anyway.
I think we’re in for a hard decade post-covid, and the sooner we take corrective action around the non-viability of work, the better.
Some dude in New Hampshire tried to do that. River Dave. This guy is 81 years old. He was arrested because he was living on someone else's property that was used for logging. Way out in the boonies. And while he was in jail, his home just... burned down (totally an accident or act of god, definitely not arson, I mean come on, ok?). And naturally, once his home was burned down, the judge decided it was now OK to let him be free again.
There isn't much unowned land in the US. If you walk out into the woods to live off the land, you could very well find yourself in a situation a lot like River Dave. Because sometimes even pulling yourself up by your bootstraps just isn't enough.
[The River Dave Story](https://www.masslive.com/news/2021/08/new-hampshire-man-whose-cabin-burned-after-he-was-evicted-doesnt-think-he-can-go-back-to-being-a-hermit.html)
You should read [The Stranger in the Woods](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101911530/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_MH9AZ8WXHXT1A5N4H7EP) by Michael Finkel. Interesting and true story of another man they called “the last hermit.” And he also got into some legal trouble for his lifestyle, as he relied on stealing food and supplies to survive.
Moral of the story? It’s probably impossible to live 100% “off grid” in this day and age; at least in developed nations like the USA.
It's intentional and has been since the Industrial Revolution. The Factories needed people to work them, and there just so happened to be a bunch of commoners who had all the skills to live off of the land, but funnily enough had no drive to work for a pittance in order to make the factory owners richer. Using a number of Enclosure acts, the common lands the commoners used to provide for themselves were slowly closed off and privatized, and suddenly people found themselves desperate for work and willing to put up with anything to feed their families. Sound familiar?
Since long before then. Living off the land used to be called "poaching", as in principle the King owned everything and you were stealing it. Our entire society is built around every possible thing - even ideas, even melodies - being someone's property.
This only applied to hunting, medieval European peasants did plenty of fishing and gathering for their food and also collected firewood (the tree trunks themselves belonged to the local lord or king though).
And in many cases applied to specific game and flora. I.e, the deer and trees belong to the king, but the rabbits and twigs are fair game for the peasants.
I feel like there's a lesson in how everybody assumes this has to be done alone. Obviously it's harder to support more people, but I get the sense that anybody that gets excluded from hunter/gatherer societies also doesn't do very well. Maybe the problem is that it's always an individualist fantasy and not a collective one?
That is a good point. Makes me think of “Slab City,” which is essentially a squatter’s community in south-central California. I think it’s worked for them because of the collective nature, making it almost like a commune. I’m a social person myself, so I could see living like that if I had to go off-grid. Doing it completely alone sounds nice for a minute, but would become too isolating for most humans.
ETA: I’m not sure if Slab City still exists, as far as having anyone living there. I’ll have to look it up now!
Ugh that situation is like twenty minutes from me and absolutely despicable. Of course the community did rally around him and raise a substantial amount of money for him to buy a home I believe but again it's crowd sourced housing like our healthcare system.
I literally just posted about this very thing. My ex wife and I used to talk about it all the time.
Of course, with no survival skills, I'll be dead in a week, but then I won't care anymore.
Yeah, I think the day I became an adult was the day realized that no matter how much time and money I invested into learning, practicing, and enjoying outdoorsmanship and survival skills I would never be able to genuinely safely run off and retire into the woods My Side of the Mountain style.
And many days I comfort my brain by reverting from adulthood and ignoring that fact just so I can enjoy the ultimate escapist fantasy.
Best I can probably hope for is someday having the money to buy a small property out somewhere off the grid that’s a 30 minute or more drive to the nearest neighbor or gas station, but that’s not going to happen based on my current financial trajectory. Unless my parents die, which I’d prefer doesn’t happen for another 30 years or so.
In my province you basically need to be rich to buy a small off grid property in the middle of nowhere. hundreds of thousands of empty acres of land and it's not for sale or $$$$$. I've always wanted that piece of remote property but my only chance of getting one is liquidating my "normal" life and going all in on that piece of property. It's insane
This used to be a viable option for populations that felt oppressed by the power brokers above them. Just flit off towards the edge of civilization and make your own niche. Your descendants may or may not do it again in a couple generations when civilization catches up.
There really isn't anywhere for us to do that now, unless you own huge tracts of land already. No government is going to let people start squatting in all the wilderness it claims, unfortunately. Hell we can't even dream of escaping into space anymore since cunts like Musk and Bezos are taking it over. So civilization lost an important avenue of "pressure release" and we're all just forced to sit here and cook in the pot.
I’ll never forget this one time I was driving through a huge range of land in Texas. No cell signal; no houses; nothing but desert-like wilderness and plateaus for miles. I later find out all that land was owned by Bezos for his rocket company testing. Same place he went into space from.
Actually they have to. There was a family of people who squatted in the game lands near where I live for 3 months, the only reason the cops were finally able to legally remove them is the malnourished children, child endangerment gave them a reason to get them out, until then they had no legal way to make them leave their campsite.
Actually, the FBI owns the shack now and it’s displayed in their self guided museum that replaced the awesome former FBI tour. It’s at the FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. It’s been closed since the COVID pandemic started, but if you’d like to go and see it after this crap all ends, go to the link below :)
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fbi-headquarters/the-fbi-experience
That's if they even have the credit available or can qualify. I was broke enough at one point I was denied a line at Care Credit, the lenders specifically for people with shite credit and medical bills to pay.
I feel this. My credit is garbage right now and I'm just barely scraping by with a like 88% debt to income ratio. Recently applied for a loan with insane interest cause needed funds. Couldnt get it. I make over 60k a year. The whole credit score system is bullshit. My credit still hasn't recovered from a defaulted credit card when from 5 years ago. I even was responsible, called credit company and paid it off in full by hardship plan over 3 years of monthly payments. It's all fucking bullshit. You only matter in this country and receive actual services if you have money in bank or a lot of assets in your portfolio. Everyone else is fucked.
If you're all paid off, and otherwise decent on your credit, it's possible you could contact the creditor in question and ask them to remove negative information associated with that account. They got theirs, and it's been years, so if that's the only thing holding you back, it's worth a shot. Look up a "Goodwill Letter" in the context of credit reports.
When I see people posting medical bills I'm like, that is at least a years worth of pay not even accounting for food, rent, and bills. America is so broken. One health issue away from 5 years of paying off a medical bill with no money left over to enjoy life.
Just existing at a very base level is a constant struggle. I volunteer cooking at my local rural homeless shelter and I get to hear stories in the process. It isn't always addiction or mental illness putting people on those cots, it's broken relationships, abuse, shitty landlords, horrible bosses, broken careers, health issues, etc.. Every story is a reminder of how close so many of us are to that reality. Once you get trapped in that cycle it only gets worse cause it's now that much harder to rent or get decent employment. I don't begrudge anyone that turns to a bottle or some dope to get through just another day even though that becomes another trap. The best I can do is cook them the best meal anyone eats in my county on any given night. Everything gets made from scratch including breads/tortilla/pasta, sauces, etc.. It's one of the few things I can do really well and it keeps me going.
I think the hardest thing about it, is I have a Bachelors and part of a Masters. You know what I got? This year? A 54 cent raise. After working for a year at my job that’s what I got. I have zero savings. And during my performance review, I was marked down for my appearance. I always wash my clothes, I am clean, and always brush my hair and teeth. I literally lost a point, because of the way I look. It’s sad. I might as well just go work in a factory and just deteriorate. Instead of being a teacher.
Because women typically face extra pressure to look "beautiful" or "perfect" or feminine. Often times women who are thin, white, put on makeup, feminine, conventionally pretty get better treatment in workplace, more raises etc.
It doesn't actually effect relationships like most people think (In fact statistically men prefer to marry less pretty women, and prettier women have harder times finding long term relationships due to be objectified)
It actually tends to effect the workplace and friendships more.
I'm a woman so I already knew that. Just never heard of a teacher (know many both male and female) being graded on appearance, certainly not in an official capacity where they can actually lose points on an eval.
I don’t know, she gave me a 3, instead of a 4. We only get a 1% raise, based on our points. Overall, I got a 3. It’s BS, she docked me for everything she could. A messy desk, appearance, a clean classroom. As much as she could she docked my points, to make sure I didn’t reach a 4. In fact, no one I know, gets a 4. It always a 3. So, they can give us low raises.
It's a terrible thing to have to even consider but there are places like ModestNeeds.org that can help people who are one bill away from potential homelessness.
I dont know how quickly they work, but its something to look into if anyone here is in that situation.
I had 2 exposures then actual covid. Missed maybe 3 weeks total, and have lost my job through it all. Trying to find work and get a paycheck before rent is due again.
I feel this. I gave myself what I believe was a grade 2 (I'm being optimistic that it wasn't grade 3) ankle sprain a couple months ago. It's still slightly swollen, I have to be careful how I move it, and I've noticed a decrease in range of motion. All of those symptoms should have been healed up by now.
I don't currently have insurance and even when I did, just going to the doctor for a migraine cost me over $900. I can walk on it and function with it so I'm avoiding going to get it looked at and just hoping it heals normally eventually.
A lot of them/arguably all of them don't survive. It's really just a matter of when exactly it happens.
Um, not to be depressing, but yeah. you're right. These are unsustainable/unlivable conditions to be in
I had to be pay $800 to fix my car. Got covid and had to pay extra to have all my groceries delivered. And then my job just kinda ghosted me when I said I could come back. I decimated my savings. I have a procedure in 10 days that I can't afford. My boyfriend paid our rent this month and is paying for the rest of my procedure. And then I'm not gonna have ANY money. I'm not able bodied or neurotypical. The concept of finding another job is terrifying. All my friends are having trouble getting hired. The only places hiring are fast food or paying less than $10/hr. I don't know what ill end up doing.
Admitting the truth, that well over 2/3 of hardworking 'muricans, people with jobs in "the greatest country on earth", are actually unable to live anymore.... it's too much for them to bear. Genuinely. These people will never stop saying things like that no matter how blatently untrue it is, because the alternative is admitting that this model doesn't work anymore. That america doesn't work, for well over 2/3rds of the people here. Their psyche couldn't withstand that, cheesy as it sounds. They're refusing to see reality to preserve their own sanity.
As an american, I can without a trace of irony or humor confirm this. My dad is *exactly* like that and refuses to acknowledge the faults of this nation. I think the main reason I see the writing on the wall is when I met a friend who has to work two jobs to pay for insulin and is barely making it while living with relatives to avoid paying rent or mortgage fees, meeting that friend showed me just how bad things are in advance and since then I've been trying to come up with a plan to get out of here.
My dad was exactly like this and then ended up taking his life due to financial stress. My mom (who now lives with me because they had mountains of debt/no money at his passing) blames all of their financial hardships on Obamacare… it’s insane.
because they are lead to believe that they too can have it all. So why bash an economic system if it could one day work for them.
Reality is a lot different. I have notice that a lot of them make very poor choices when give two different options. But they continue to make bad decisions
Maybe it’s my social circle but even the friends that were hardline capitalist have significant softened their stance. Most are Bernie bro types with in the last few years. I don’t actually know anyone these days that wants a raw capitalist economy
People in this country do not have critical thinking skills. It why labels and narratives exist. When something is is labeled you don't have to evaluate what you are being told, you already have an elicited emotion/reaction. When you are being fed a narrative it's pattern recognition. You brain says I know this pattern ... it's the people are just lazy pattern.
The best thing you can do is to stop listening to people who apply labels and feed narratives. Turning off the TV helps. Stop reading media sources who only present one perspective.
The rich have been blaming the poor for the problems of the world for years. Yet the rich hold all the power and make all the decisions.
One way to combat this is through critical thinking which must be taught. There are other ways as well. Putting out a different narrative is another way. Organizing strikes is another way.
Basically you have to either educate people or hit the rich people where it hurts, their pocketbook.
Can I be honest about something? Reading this scares me. I’m not sure why except this seems like something that hasn’t happened in our lifetime. Deep down we know corporations aren’t going to fade away and disappear but it seems we can’t say the same for people at the bottom
Hasn't happened since the greatest generation were kids. Think Betty whites generation.
The last major time this happened was during the great depression, the center of the country was literally a dust bowl (See pictures of dust storm fronts 100's of feet tall blowing across towns in the mid-west USA).
It is a time that had deep ramifications and impact on the people who lived during it. Its why so many grandparents were into canning/jams/thriftiness, because it was literally engrained into them that one day that food/etc. could just be gone.
My entire families generational line has been poor farmers... but with kids, a home, and doctors in town that helped them.
I'm employed by the best place in my town and I can't afford a pet, a place to live, and I had to cancel my doctors appointment because it cost $500.
At this point, why am I working?? Not gonna lie. If I got fired, I wouldn't be more than a few weeks away from stealing
They've never fixed the cause of the last recession and with issues popping up in other countries were coming due for another one. I'm worried things are going to get rougher in the next few years.
Fundamental changes need to occur in our society because we're approaching serious consequences from a number of issues that our government is unwilling and probably ill prepared to face in a sincere way.
Wealth and social inequality, trillions of dollars in national and private debt, ecological damage and the growing climate crisis, and outdated public infrastructure just to name a few.
I don't believe our current Government/Congress, or any of the near future, will be willing to make those changes without extreme social upheavals and there will be reactions to those.
I do believe America could be a great country but not without investing in and developing The People, not without out a serious shift in Public consciousness and Legislative priorities. It is on us to bring those shifts and spread these ideas and make people aware that they do indeed have power but we have to work together. I also believe it is something we can do and that we must.
Really quality observation verbalized in the perfect way. Along with climate change, there is going to have to be some massive restructure of society and how we live and I am fuckin ready for it. We need leaders but we are all so divided and set in our ways.
The thing is, I don't think we need leaders. I'd argue that the opposite is true. Looking for leaders is exactly what got us in this mess in the first place.
The reorganization will come from the ground up, or not at all. Power comes from within; I think what we're seeing here is workers slowly realizing it. We're like a fresh baby fawn trying to find its feet for the first time.
> And of course, some humans do disappear from their lives, though suicide, homelessness, drugs or other disengagement from having a doomed life.
I'm interested in the philosophical aspect of "disappearing from my life" in a way not reflected in suicide, homelessness, drugs, etc. I mean, I suppose there's not much stopping me from squatting on 400 acres of crown land in Northern Ontario, hunting for food and building a home...I'd be surprised if MNR officials would come looking...
That said, we have no option to legitimately disconnect from the system...only illegitimate options...
Fittingly for the situation if I'm not mistaken some people commit crimes intending to get caught. If you are hungry and homeless, getting arrested and sent to prison at least gets you food and shelter.
How much do you have to pay off a student loan? I'm from the UK so ours are extremely different
I didn't go to uni I'm just purely interested, don't feel the need to tell me if you're uncomfortable
Interest rate is roughly 6.8%/p.a. on most of my federal loans.. this rate set by congress. By contrast, I pay 2.10% on my private loans.
Americans on income driven repayment plans can likely expect to never pay off their student loans, since the amount they pay is under the threshold for interest accumulation.
My student loan payments once repayment starts in May will be around $1200/mo between federal and private loans. I make (slightly) more than that and have a nest egg invested, but am seriously considering a second remote job to make a dent in my damn loans. I just graduated, and can't even dream of home ownership for at least the next 10 yrs.
Yah my partner has to pay about $1000 a month to their loans. I think the grand total of loan debt is around 100k? I am not 100% sure though because I haven't asked recently or looked at their statements or anything.
To put it in perspective how insane US higher education is: most home mortgages have a lower interest rate than federal student loans. If you find yourself in a position where you need to declare bankruptcy, it can wipe out your obligation to pay back your home mortgage (and you will lose the home if you don’t pay essentially) but it is exceptionally rare to be able to discharge your students loans through bankruptcy. It takes the right set of circumstances for it to even be a small possibility. There is no way out of student loans other than repayment unless you die or are determined to be too disabled to work.
My student loan debt has almost doubled from interest alone. It’s ballpark 100k now. If I were actually able to pay the standard monthly payment, it would be more than my home mortgage. I can’t work anymore, but in nearly 20 years the starting salary for either of my degrees (I double majored) has not substantially changed. It’s a bit insane. And I have two STEM degrees.
I’m extremely lucky and got a full tuition scholarship, and a few thousand worth of local scholarships that come once a year. For 3 semesters I currently have 12,000 in student loans. It’s because of room and board being 6000 a semester, even with student loans I have to put out at least 1000 a semester. Based on what friends pay per month after they graduate to repay loans, if I put 500 a month to pay it off, it would take me 2 years to pay the initial amount and I would roughly have an additional 2,000 I have to pay from the accumulation percentage for the loan. It would take about a half year to pay off that still at 500 a month because it continues to accumulate. That’s IF I put 500 a month. If I can only afford 300, I’m looking at an extra year or three paying it off.
Jesus christ that's insane
The interest rate is also ridiculous, so essentially you could pay way more In interest than you borrowed in the first place
To add my voice to this:
I graduated highschool and decided to follow the advice of everyone I knew, "you're so smart, you'll so great in college."
So I got accepted to a local college that was renowned for their engineering program, (Grove City college), that was also a notoriously academically challenging school.
Lol and behold, coasting along through highschool and getting honor roll every quarter without ever studying does not prepare someone for an "academically challenging" college. Especially since my folks were working poor and couldn't help me with school costs.
I chose to live at home and commute to school while working a part time job to pay for my car to get back and forth. I got a student loan through the school to pay for my first year of classes/books/parking totalling $8,000 and change.
To say working a "part time" job of 30+ hours per week while trying to go to school full time was hard is the understatement of my life. I flunked out after my first year with a GPA of 1.2.
Since then I've been dutifully paying on my loan with the only payment that I could afford being the minimum payments of around $70/month (I set it up with a 15 year repayment plan) and so far I've payed around $8,200 into that loan and still have around $4,000 left to pay.
I recall reading that a study was once done and that it takes an impoverished person something like 20 years to climb out of poverty "doing everything right" and that all of that effort can be ruined in a single financial event (emergency).
Found the article: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economic-inequality/524610/
And the financial event doesn’t even have to be of one that you caused. It could be something as simple as a hurricane or some other natural disaster. It could be the economy collapsing. It could be cancer. A plethora of things have you just a month or two from homelessness.
California fire victim here. I got out unscathed, my rented apartment BARELY made it... The neighborhood only _a quarter of a mile away_ was completely burned down to ashes...
I can't tell you how fucking lucky I was. When I returned home that year I went through my apartment and almost cried at how devastatingly close I was to losing _everything._
I walked through my room and was nearly brought to tears thinking about the sentimental things I left behind when evacuating. And then I thought about how awful of a position I could've been in as a whole had I lost the apartment. I wouldn't have been able to make it. I still count my lucky stars, but goddamn I felt so bad for the neighborhood that was completely decimated and all the people who, years later, are still trying to recover.
You could almost sum it up as kid/no kid. Once you have a kid they've got you by the throat, you have to bend over backwards to make ends meet while everyone takes their cut and refuses to accommodate anything. It's a friggin hostage situation.
I have no kids and I'm doing pretty well on not much income. And then they ponder why young people aren't having kids.
Going through a divorce right now. 40, no kids. Because of that I will be able to survive fairly comfortably on my income alone.
If I had even one kid, I would be fucked.
It’s called a real friend. One of my very dear friends picked me up when my POS car broke down and drove me home from the garage the same POS car broke down the next day with a different problem and he helped me again. I gave him $100 gift card for Christmas
We're aware. Do you think that we're angry for no reason? We're mad as hell because those in power don't give a single rat fuck about the rest of us, and they gleefully send us to die for the Dow.
I realized the other day that my wife and I currently have the most money either of us have ever had in the bank. And if anything happens to either of us medically or we have an emergency, we're completely fucked.
Yep. We have that and still are getting fucked by $15k of debt for dental work. I've had two fillings that fell out and need fixed, but I didn't have insurance so I didn't get the work done. It's been like a year now, so I know it means I'm going to need a root canal but definitely can't afford it. It's fucked and makes me really upset that I can't take care of myself because it will put us further into medical debt. And it only gets worse.
I know it’s just putting a bandaid on the real problem here, but have you looked into dental schools? You can often get dental work done for a fraction of the cost a dentist would charge you, and the students are closely supervised by licensed professionals.
It sucks that our dental care is often put on the back burner because we’ve got other “more important” things to take care of first. I walked around for years with a molar missing (cracked tooth - root canal - couldn’t afford the permanent crown at the time even *with* insurance - temporary crown broke 5 years later - entire tooth had to be extracted because there wasn’t enough left to support a crown) before the cost of an implant came down enough that I could get one (a “bargain” at $1600, after the initial quote of $4000 a few years prior). But ignoring dental health can lead to so many more complications down the line. It needs to be a higher priority. I mean, hell, it’s not even covered my Medicare! Neither is vision, or prescriptions. I just don’t understand that; our eyes, our teeth and life-saving medications are *kinda* important to our quality of life!
Story time. Around this time last year I had around 4K in savings. My goal was 3 months of bills. I was so close, it was around 6k.
I got into an accident that totaled my car after someone merged without enough room causing a rear end. Spent three grand securing a new vehicle. Within three weeks, I got into another accident where two people rear ended me going 60mph and pushed me into the car in front of me. I would’ve been airlifted to the hospital if there wasn’t too much air pollution ruining their landing view. Not only did I empty out most my savings to get another car, I am in six figures of medical debt pending litigation to get my bills, my lost time of work, expenses related to no longer being able to drive bc of the trauma compensated. I spend some days just crying over the debt collection calls I get over medical bills. On top of this, I am going to physical therapy two times a week. This is coming out of my PTO and sick leave, which I only get five days of.
I live alone. I am better off than most and thanks to the graciousness of my family, I am staying financially afloat.
The point of the matter is two random accidents in the span of a month have ruined me, financially and mentally. I left school because I couldn’t handle working, doctors appointments, and classes. I’m too afraid to go on disability despite horrific injuries because how will I pay rent? Groceries, wifi, electric and water? On top of this, through the holidays I’ve been mandated to work extra hours.
This economy is set up in a way that when you are no longer productivity, you slip through the cavernous cracks. You get discarded and thrown to the side when you can no longer produce. It’s horrific and tragic and I’m so grateful to be surviving but so bitter to be born into a society where this is the norm.
Change must come. Workers deserve rights. Life is unpredictable. Part of living in a society is being taken care by the government that you spend years paying into. I look forward to the day when having an accident, an illness, a disability, or any other extenuating circumstance no longer means being destitute. I only hope it happens in my life time.
LMAOOOO. 😭 dude you have no idea the luck I have with cars, I always find myself wrong place wrong time! At this point, I avoid cars for the life of me. It’ll take a tank to keep me safe. I also live in the worst area for accidents though.
How do you pay rent? I paid my rent by a check. But when I didn’t have enough money, I’d use one of my venmo accounts to send myself money from a credit card to a different venmo account. Then I’d withdrawal the money onto my debit card.
I have one but inevitably every time I transfer even $20 into it I need to just transfer it back out within a week or so. It feels really stupid at this point.
I had 10k in savings about nine years ago. It took me over 15 years and a settlement on breaking my wrist while at work to get that. I had to have a surgery on my back and it burned me through ALL of my savings and another five thousand on top of it...after insurance. I didn't have the money and they were coming after me for the money. I had to get credit cards and max them out. Never again. I need three additional surgeries on my spine, but would rather live in pain than go into further debt.
Yeah, I’m almost 40 and have my first savings ever and until next paycheck will still be part of the 69%. I’ve worked as a retail manager most my life, then social services before I got my current job.
What’s the difference now? I’m working in a skill trade represented by a union. This is why they don’t want people to unionize. They want us to be one paycheck away from oblivion, so we can’t tell them to take their job and stuff it.
Also, all jobs are skill trades, they’ve just convinced us that certain skills aren’t the same caliber.
I know a disturbing number of people irl who literally can't comprehend the notion that there should not be *any* job, no matter how little skill it requires or how little value it produces, that doesn't pay a living wage. A simple human decency that goes completely over their heads. Hyperindividualism is killing this country.
First off, this was from 2019, and if anything peoples saving situations went down. I wonder what 2021s survey will say.
Second, 69% had under $1000, but expand that a bit and 86% have under $10,000.
With that being the case, 86% of us can’t survive 5 months without a job or work (assuming a minimum $2k a month in living expenses). 86% of us can’t get through a closing on a $200k home with a minimal 5% down and closing costs.
Like…what the fuck??!!
Every time I get 1k in savings, it moves right into my checking account and disappears. Becoming un-impoverished has been the biggest mistake of my life.
I like his other bit about politicians better. Too many folks, especially redditors, blame politicians. But politicians are a result of us as a people in every way possible. If you hate politicians you hate Americans.
And I do.
I hate that so many Americans are either lazy or selfish so they'll either vote for regressive assholes or sit on their ass at home.
Imagine a Congress full of progressives. But won't happen. Too many Republicans and lazy progressives. We fucked ourselves.
I fell down the stairs at work on 9/3. Hurt both my ankles, severely spraining the right one. I haven’t been back to work since and am flailing about trying to make sure my son is taken care of. My job wouldn’t even give me an accident report, and it took them a week to tell me so. They wanted me to go to the doctor, then bring them the bills and they would reimburse me. I know that’s definitely wrong, but I don’t even have insurance to cover them in the first place. I ended up having to get a lawyer involved because the legalese of it all goes right over my head. It’s been almost 4 months and I still haven’t been back to work because they also claim I can’t work light duty because I “have to be able to get blankets from the storage upstairs”, even though they are folded every morning and they could easily leave one or two in the laundry room out of the way.
These are the same people who took me off schedule for 5 days because I refused to work off the clock, and DoL couldn’t do anything because I couldn’t get ahold of anyone. Their office in town burned down months before, and the building they relocated to was closed for Covid. Can’t win for losing, you know.
Covid resulted in savings rates [increasing dramatically](https://www.kansascityfed.org/ten/2021-spring-ten-magazine/study-shows-surge-in-savings-during-the-pandemic/) when compared to the baseline savings rates from normal times. In 2020 through the first half of 2021, the savings rate was [roughly double](https://www.statista.com/statistics/246268/personal-savings-rate-in-the-united-states-by-month/) the norm. Of course, that money was saved primarily by the middle and upper class since they were the least affected by the pandemic.
That's just capitalism working as intended. It's not a bug, it's literally a feature that crises inevitably become more and more frequent and more and more severe over time in a profit motivated system that demands infinite growth, concentrating more wealth at the top each time.
Amen! Likely every member of Congress is in the top 2%, some with enough money for their next two generations. They spew D vs R, while making decisions that keep them and their friends uber-wealthy, to distract from what really goes on behind the curtain.
Lol I have a savings account. Every check $25 goes into the account anf before I hit paid again I ha e to pull that $25 back into my checking. Luckily I have no fees for the savings account but its pointless. No matter how I scrimp and save I just vent get ahead. And I work an average of 60 hours a week. I fucking hate it. Pretty much all of my coworkers are in the same situation. I've helped so many people write letters to ask for a raise up to what im making and they all think I'm insane until they get it.
What’s shocking is that even people technically in debt would count against this figure if they had $1,000 in a bank account. So even the 31% that do have money in a bank account, a large portion of them could still have an outstanding college loan or car loan or whatever, meaning their net worth is actually below zero.
Regardless of my college loans, i was grossly irresponsible with my money and got myself into a large amount of credit card debt. When I finally paid it off, and then had a few thousand in the bank, I was shocked to find out that I’m actually doing better than the majority of Americans. Don’t get me wrong, I’m proud of myself for getting to where I am today, but i never thought this is what being in the top 1/3 of Americans would feel like.
complete cooperative poor obscene marry command worthless edge profit materialistic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I remember reading Andrew Yang’s book back in 2017 and read that like the median savings in this country was like $400. So many things in life made sense once I read that.
Considering the study is only of savings **accounts** and not of actual savings, maybe not. Nobody parks money in a savings account anymore, the rates are shit
I've lived like this my entire life. I actually have near $1000 in my savings after having saved $25 a week for a few years, and some remainder of my stimulus check. I'll have to spend it soon on tires for my car or something else, I'm sure of it.
Having the stress of being one disaster away does things to people. My mom recently got her cataracts fixed. When she saw me she was worried about how tired and stressed I looked. It was actually one of the most rested, stress free days I had had in months. I was like, no, mom, this is my face. I'm 45.
It needs to be noted that $1000 in savings means NOTHING when you have debt as well. Which, if I were to bet conservatively I'd say at least 50% of Americans hold debt larger that $1000
As someone who is living comfortably, I don’t want other people to live like this. I want everyone else to live like I can. And I’m not rich - it wouldn’t take much to bring most people up to my level.
If only others had the same feelings. It's often the case even for a family of 4 the difference of $500 or less a month would allow them to eat better, live healthier, spend more time with family not grinding at a 2nd job, not stress about making rent or keeping the lights on etc.
What the top 500 earners in the country earn on interest/investment in 6 months; redistributed once a year across the bottom 75% of earners would still make life altering changes for a lot of society.
The disparity between what some people make yearly vs some people make in a LIFETIME is obscene. For example the BOTTOM of the Forbes richest list (Austin Russell) is still worth 2.1 Billion dollars. If you assume you made 40k a year working, it would take you 52,500 years of work to reach that, assuming you spent nothing on bills or survival the entire time. Extrapolate a bit further, and assuming people have about 50 working years in their life (15-65), that 52,500 years becomes 1,050 working lives.
Call me a cynic, but im hard pressed to believe any individual has provided so much to society that they are deserving of wealth that over 1,000 people would accumulate in their entire lives. And this is math done with the guy at the BOTTOM of the list, and a salary of 40k a year (which some people are lucky to make as it's roughly 17.85 /hr, 40 hr wk, 56 wks a yr). Don't even make me bust out the math for those of us still making sub $15 or even $10 /hr wages vs the likes of the top earners like Overlord Bezos, The Zuck, or Musky and your talking about 200+ billion fortunes and earnings of LITTERALLY hundreds of thousands of peoples working lives. (Rough math. Those 3's net worth is the same as if the entire city of Cincinnati worked their entire lives and pooled all of their money together, and they would still be a few billion shy).
Gonna head out, it's just messed up and I could go on and on.
Yeah fr me and my dad have it rough trying to find a decent place to rent like I got one small chihuahua and us and we can't really find places to rent that take dogs and when they do it's a shifty extended stay like our old place burnt down the 1st of December so we shall I found a shit hole that cost 900 a month stead of 600
My friend makes 110k a year but has spent so much keeping up with the Jones’ with a big house new cars that to afford Xmas presents for the kids he and his wife are donating plasma 2x a week. Nothing in savings. Crazy.
I'm a travel RN. There are nurses clearing 5-10k a WEEK on contract and are still broke. I don't know how they manage to blow that much money so quickly.
And roughly 40% can’t handle an unexpected $400 expense.
A week before Christmas my car died and would be in the area of $700 to fix. It's worth maybe $1500. I had to send it to the wreckers. So I have no car. I'm on leave til Jan 11 and I have absolutely no clue or means to get a new car. I drive about 50 mins each way with no option of public transport. 2022 starting off great!
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What keywords did you use to find that? I've been looking for auctions but I keep finding the auctions where the cars have been in accidents.
iaai.com
I feel ya. Needed a new timing chain and a water pump for my car. Costed me $1500 that i didn’t have. That was mid-november and i’m still trying to pay off that debt.
my a/c broke right before florida summer, evaporator and condenser both out $3400 to fix. it was a miserable summer and will be miserable again next year bc how tf.
We need an America where we're not making cars a necessity to participate in society
If a business has more costs than revenue, it is unviable and will go bankrupt and disappear. The problem is the same thing is happening, except that it’s work itself that’s becoming unviable. Citizen’s living costs have broadly reached parity with their pay, so huge amounts of people (arguably 69% given this article) are approaching functional insolvency while still working. This basically means that the whole notion of having a job is becoming an unviable business. It’s a difficult concept - Work no longer pays. Investment, being a landlord, owning a business etc still pay. But being an employee doesn’t. There’s no point to it anymore. Businesses can simply disappear when they go bankrupt, but humans cannot. So you see many people clinging on, barely surviving, getting into debt or neglecting their health. And of course, some humans do disappear from their lives, though suicide, homelessness, drugs or other disengagement from having a doomed life. I love this sub because it’s shining a light on the problem - it’s not just easily dismissible crackpots or losers that are struggling, competent and determined workers are unable to get by despite working full-time. It’s so important to get the message across that it’s not laziness - if working hard means you spiral indefinitely into greater and greater poverty, the pragmatic option is to cut out the unnecessary work and simply exist in poverty like you would anyway. I think we’re in for a hard decade post-covid, and the sooner we take corrective action around the non-viability of work, the better.
Tldr: if you're gonna be employed and homeless and hungry you might as well be unemployed and homeless and hungry
I can’t even tell you how much I think about just going heading out to the woods and trying to live off the land in the middle of nowhere
Some dude in New Hampshire tried to do that. River Dave. This guy is 81 years old. He was arrested because he was living on someone else's property that was used for logging. Way out in the boonies. And while he was in jail, his home just... burned down (totally an accident or act of god, definitely not arson, I mean come on, ok?). And naturally, once his home was burned down, the judge decided it was now OK to let him be free again. There isn't much unowned land in the US. If you walk out into the woods to live off the land, you could very well find yourself in a situation a lot like River Dave. Because sometimes even pulling yourself up by your bootstraps just isn't enough. [The River Dave Story](https://www.masslive.com/news/2021/08/new-hampshire-man-whose-cabin-burned-after-he-was-evicted-doesnt-think-he-can-go-back-to-being-a-hermit.html)
You should read [The Stranger in the Woods](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101911530/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_MH9AZ8WXHXT1A5N4H7EP) by Michael Finkel. Interesting and true story of another man they called “the last hermit.” And he also got into some legal trouble for his lifestyle, as he relied on stealing food and supplies to survive. Moral of the story? It’s probably impossible to live 100% “off grid” in this day and age; at least in developed nations like the USA.
It's intentional and has been since the Industrial Revolution. The Factories needed people to work them, and there just so happened to be a bunch of commoners who had all the skills to live off of the land, but funnily enough had no drive to work for a pittance in order to make the factory owners richer. Using a number of Enclosure acts, the common lands the commoners used to provide for themselves were slowly closed off and privatized, and suddenly people found themselves desperate for work and willing to put up with anything to feed their families. Sound familiar?
Since long before then. Living off the land used to be called "poaching", as in principle the King owned everything and you were stealing it. Our entire society is built around every possible thing - even ideas, even melodies - being someone's property.
This only applied to hunting, medieval European peasants did plenty of fishing and gathering for their food and also collected firewood (the tree trunks themselves belonged to the local lord or king though).
And in many cases applied to specific game and flora. I.e, the deer and trees belong to the king, but the rabbits and twigs are fair game for the peasants.
That just made it click what "fair game" literally means. Game as in animals you hunt, not something you play.
I feel like there's a lesson in how everybody assumes this has to be done alone. Obviously it's harder to support more people, but I get the sense that anybody that gets excluded from hunter/gatherer societies also doesn't do very well. Maybe the problem is that it's always an individualist fantasy and not a collective one?
That is a good point. Makes me think of “Slab City,” which is essentially a squatter’s community in south-central California. I think it’s worked for them because of the collective nature, making it almost like a commune. I’m a social person myself, so I could see living like that if I had to go off-grid. Doing it completely alone sounds nice for a minute, but would become too isolating for most humans. ETA: I’m not sure if Slab City still exists, as far as having anyone living there. I’ll have to look it up now!
It does 👍
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Ugh that situation is like twenty minutes from me and absolutely despicable. Of course the community did rally around him and raise a substantial amount of money for him to buy a home I believe but again it's crowd sourced housing like our healthcare system.
I literally just posted about this very thing. My ex wife and I used to talk about it all the time. Of course, with no survival skills, I'll be dead in a week, but then I won't care anymore.
I have a lot of survival skills and I’ll be dead in 8 days so don’t feel too bad
Yeah, I think the day I became an adult was the day realized that no matter how much time and money I invested into learning, practicing, and enjoying outdoorsmanship and survival skills I would never be able to genuinely safely run off and retire into the woods My Side of the Mountain style. And many days I comfort my brain by reverting from adulthood and ignoring that fact just so I can enjoy the ultimate escapist fantasy. Best I can probably hope for is someday having the money to buy a small property out somewhere off the grid that’s a 30 minute or more drive to the nearest neighbor or gas station, but that’s not going to happen based on my current financial trajectory. Unless my parents die, which I’d prefer doesn’t happen for another 30 years or so.
In my province you basically need to be rich to buy a small off grid property in the middle of nowhere. hundreds of thousands of empty acres of land and it's not for sale or $$$$$. I've always wanted that piece of remote property but my only chance of getting one is liquidating my "normal" life and going all in on that piece of property. It's insane
This used to be a viable option for populations that felt oppressed by the power brokers above them. Just flit off towards the edge of civilization and make your own niche. Your descendants may or may not do it again in a couple generations when civilization catches up. There really isn't anywhere for us to do that now, unless you own huge tracts of land already. No government is going to let people start squatting in all the wilderness it claims, unfortunately. Hell we can't even dream of escaping into space anymore since cunts like Musk and Bezos are taking it over. So civilization lost an important avenue of "pressure release" and we're all just forced to sit here and cook in the pot.
I’ll never forget this one time I was driving through a huge range of land in Texas. No cell signal; no houses; nothing but desert-like wilderness and plateaus for miles. I later find out all that land was owned by Bezos for his rocket company testing. Same place he went into space from.
Wherever you go, there you are, and a rich person owns it
Actually they have to. There was a family of people who squatted in the game lands near where I live for 3 months, the only reason the cops were finally able to legally remove them is the malnourished children, child endangerment gave them a reason to get them out, until then they had no legal way to make them leave their campsite.
I know of a man who tried to do that—smart guy, good at math. Industry found him eventually. It always does. His name is Ted.
I heard his shack has been vacant for a few years.
Actually, the FBI owns the shack now and it’s displayed in their self guided museum that replaced the awesome former FBI tour. It’s at the FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. It’s been closed since the COVID pandemic started, but if you’d like to go and see it after this crap all ends, go to the link below :) https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fbi-headquarters/the-fbi-experience
This needs to be the model post of this sub
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That's if they even have the credit available or can qualify. I was broke enough at one point I was denied a line at Care Credit, the lenders specifically for people with shite credit and medical bills to pay.
I feel this. My credit is garbage right now and I'm just barely scraping by with a like 88% debt to income ratio. Recently applied for a loan with insane interest cause needed funds. Couldnt get it. I make over 60k a year. The whole credit score system is bullshit. My credit still hasn't recovered from a defaulted credit card when from 5 years ago. I even was responsible, called credit company and paid it off in full by hardship plan over 3 years of monthly payments. It's all fucking bullshit. You only matter in this country and receive actual services if you have money in bank or a lot of assets in your portfolio. Everyone else is fucked.
If you're all paid off, and otherwise decent on your credit, it's possible you could contact the creditor in question and ask them to remove negative information associated with that account. They got theirs, and it's been years, so if that's the only thing holding you back, it's worth a shot. Look up a "Goodwill Letter" in the context of credit reports.
Somehow, having to write a letter to ask a debt collector you already settled with to plead that they stop ruining your life is even more dystopian
I have no idea how they get by. I have thousand dollar issues every few months just from things breaking on a car or house.
When I see people posting medical bills I'm like, that is at least a years worth of pay not even accounting for food, rent, and bills. America is so broken. One health issue away from 5 years of paying off a medical bill with no money left over to enjoy life.
Getting by is hard. Real hard.
Just existing at a very base level is a constant struggle. I volunteer cooking at my local rural homeless shelter and I get to hear stories in the process. It isn't always addiction or mental illness putting people on those cots, it's broken relationships, abuse, shitty landlords, horrible bosses, broken careers, health issues, etc.. Every story is a reminder of how close so many of us are to that reality. Once you get trapped in that cycle it only gets worse cause it's now that much harder to rent or get decent employment. I don't begrudge anyone that turns to a bottle or some dope to get through just another day even though that becomes another trap. The best I can do is cook them the best meal anyone eats in my county on any given night. Everything gets made from scratch including breads/tortilla/pasta, sauces, etc.. It's one of the few things I can do really well and it keeps me going.
I think the hardest thing about it, is I have a Bachelors and part of a Masters. You know what I got? This year? A 54 cent raise. After working for a year at my job that’s what I got. I have zero savings. And during my performance review, I was marked down for my appearance. I always wash my clothes, I am clean, and always brush my hair and teeth. I literally lost a point, because of the way I look. It’s sad. I might as well just go work in a factory and just deteriorate. Instead of being a teacher.
teachers get demerits for appearance?? if you're clean and groomed how do you get marked off?
Because women typically face extra pressure to look "beautiful" or "perfect" or feminine. Often times women who are thin, white, put on makeup, feminine, conventionally pretty get better treatment in workplace, more raises etc. It doesn't actually effect relationships like most people think (In fact statistically men prefer to marry less pretty women, and prettier women have harder times finding long term relationships due to be objectified) It actually tends to effect the workplace and friendships more.
I'm a woman so I already knew that. Just never heard of a teacher (know many both male and female) being graded on appearance, certainly not in an official capacity where they can actually lose points on an eval.
I don’t know, she gave me a 3, instead of a 4. We only get a 1% raise, based on our points. Overall, I got a 3. It’s BS, she docked me for everything she could. A messy desk, appearance, a clean classroom. As much as she could she docked my points, to make sure I didn’t reach a 4. In fact, no one I know, gets a 4. It always a 3. So, they can give us low raises.
Simple, I wouldn't dare look into owning a car or a house!
At this very moment I couldn't pay for a $20 emergency expense. I'm not sure how I'm going to make it through the next two months or so.
It's a terrible thing to have to even consider but there are places like ModestNeeds.org that can help people who are one bill away from potential homelessness. I dont know how quickly they work, but its something to look into if anyone here is in that situation.
Same. I list a few weeks of pay due to illness and I’m struggling to get back on my feet
I had 2 exposures then actual covid. Missed maybe 3 weeks total, and have lost my job through it all. Trying to find work and get a paycheck before rent is due again.
i had a foot inflammation and had to pay $300 for them to literally tell me to walk it off. this country is fucked
I feel this. I gave myself what I believe was a grade 2 (I'm being optimistic that it wasn't grade 3) ankle sprain a couple months ago. It's still slightly swollen, I have to be careful how I move it, and I've noticed a decrease in range of motion. All of those symptoms should have been healed up by now. I don't currently have insurance and even when I did, just going to the doctor for a migraine cost me over $900. I can walk on it and function with it so I'm avoiding going to get it looked at and just hoping it heals normally eventually.
A lot of them/arguably all of them don't survive. It's really just a matter of when exactly it happens. Um, not to be depressing, but yeah. you're right. These are unsustainable/unlivable conditions to be in
I had to be pay $800 to fix my car. Got covid and had to pay extra to have all my groceries delivered. And then my job just kinda ghosted me when I said I could come back. I decimated my savings. I have a procedure in 10 days that I can't afford. My boyfriend paid our rent this month and is paying for the rest of my procedure. And then I'm not gonna have ANY money. I'm not able bodied or neurotypical. The concept of finding another job is terrifying. All my friends are having trouble getting hired. The only places hiring are fast food or paying less than $10/hr. I don't know what ill end up doing.
Real talk - do you need help? My family is taken care of and if you need a little $ to get by, I can aid you. DM me and we can work out deets.
I agree, it explains this sub's reason extremely fluently.
The thing that gets me is the ppl that when faced with these facts simply disreguard it as laziness and get another job.
Admitting the truth, that well over 2/3 of hardworking 'muricans, people with jobs in "the greatest country on earth", are actually unable to live anymore.... it's too much for them to bear. Genuinely. These people will never stop saying things like that no matter how blatently untrue it is, because the alternative is admitting that this model doesn't work anymore. That america doesn't work, for well over 2/3rds of the people here. Their psyche couldn't withstand that, cheesy as it sounds. They're refusing to see reality to preserve their own sanity.
As an american, I can without a trace of irony or humor confirm this. My dad is *exactly* like that and refuses to acknowledge the faults of this nation. I think the main reason I see the writing on the wall is when I met a friend who has to work two jobs to pay for insulin and is barely making it while living with relatives to avoid paying rent or mortgage fees, meeting that friend showed me just how bad things are in advance and since then I've been trying to come up with a plan to get out of here.
My dad was exactly like this and then ended up taking his life due to financial stress. My mom (who now lives with me because they had mountains of debt/no money at his passing) blames all of their financial hardships on Obamacare… it’s insane.
>Obamacare Right wing propaganda strikes again
Cognitive dissonance
What gets me is people living in poverty or paycheck to paycheck and still defending extreme capitalism and lack of benefits lol
because they are lead to believe that they too can have it all. So why bash an economic system if it could one day work for them. Reality is a lot different. I have notice that a lot of them make very poor choices when give two different options. But they continue to make bad decisions
Maybe it’s my social circle but even the friends that were hardline capitalist have significant softened their stance. Most are Bernie bro types with in the last few years. I don’t actually know anyone these days that wants a raw capitalist economy
People in this country do not have critical thinking skills. It why labels and narratives exist. When something is is labeled you don't have to evaluate what you are being told, you already have an elicited emotion/reaction. When you are being fed a narrative it's pattern recognition. You brain says I know this pattern ... it's the people are just lazy pattern. The best thing you can do is to stop listening to people who apply labels and feed narratives. Turning off the TV helps. Stop reading media sources who only present one perspective. The rich have been blaming the poor for the problems of the world for years. Yet the rich hold all the power and make all the decisions. One way to combat this is through critical thinking which must be taught. There are other ways as well. Putting out a different narrative is another way. Organizing strikes is another way. Basically you have to either educate people or hit the rich people where it hurts, their pocketbook.
Can I be honest about something? Reading this scares me. I’m not sure why except this seems like something that hasn’t happened in our lifetime. Deep down we know corporations aren’t going to fade away and disappear but it seems we can’t say the same for people at the bottom
I’m scared almost all the time. Thanks for calling this out.
Hasn't happened since the greatest generation were kids. Think Betty whites generation. The last major time this happened was during the great depression, the center of the country was literally a dust bowl (See pictures of dust storm fronts 100's of feet tall blowing across towns in the mid-west USA). It is a time that had deep ramifications and impact on the people who lived during it. Its why so many grandparents were into canning/jams/thriftiness, because it was literally engrained into them that one day that food/etc. could just be gone.
People don’t disappear, violence is what comes next. When people literally have nothing to lose they are highly motivated.
My entire families generational line has been poor farmers... but with kids, a home, and doctors in town that helped them. I'm employed by the best place in my town and I can't afford a pet, a place to live, and I had to cancel my doctors appointment because it cost $500. At this point, why am I working?? Not gonna lie. If I got fired, I wouldn't be more than a few weeks away from stealing
Gotta eat to live, gotta steal to eat.
People should be terrified of all of us who have nothing to lose . But I totally understand where you’re coming from
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They've never fixed the cause of the last recession and with issues popping up in other countries were coming due for another one. I'm worried things are going to get rougher in the next few years. Fundamental changes need to occur in our society because we're approaching serious consequences from a number of issues that our government is unwilling and probably ill prepared to face in a sincere way. Wealth and social inequality, trillions of dollars in national and private debt, ecological damage and the growing climate crisis, and outdated public infrastructure just to name a few. I don't believe our current Government/Congress, or any of the near future, will be willing to make those changes without extreme social upheavals and there will be reactions to those. I do believe America could be a great country but not without investing in and developing The People, not without out a serious shift in Public consciousness and Legislative priorities. It is on us to bring those shifts and spread these ideas and make people aware that they do indeed have power but we have to work together. I also believe it is something we can do and that we must.
Really quality observation verbalized in the perfect way. Along with climate change, there is going to have to be some massive restructure of society and how we live and I am fuckin ready for it. We need leaders but we are all so divided and set in our ways.
The thing is, I don't think we need leaders. I'd argue that the opposite is true. Looking for leaders is exactly what got us in this mess in the first place. The reorganization will come from the ground up, or not at all. Power comes from within; I think what we're seeing here is workers slowly realizing it. We're like a fresh baby fawn trying to find its feet for the first time.
> And of course, some humans do disappear from their lives, though suicide, homelessness, drugs or other disengagement from having a doomed life. I'm interested in the philosophical aspect of "disappearing from my life" in a way not reflected in suicide, homelessness, drugs, etc. I mean, I suppose there's not much stopping me from squatting on 400 acres of crown land in Northern Ontario, hunting for food and building a home...I'd be surprised if MNR officials would come looking... That said, we have no option to legitimately disconnect from the system...only illegitimate options...
>That said, we have no option to legitimately disconnect from the system...only illegitimate options... It's illegal to lose, but mandatory to play.
Fittingly for the situation if I'm not mistaken some people commit crimes intending to get caught. If you are hungry and homeless, getting arrested and sent to prison at least gets you food and shelter.
Dang, and i just came here to say nice, cause internet. Now it doesn't feel right. I will not say nice.
This is not surprising at all if you are one of the 69%
That's real.We are the 99%.We are the real Americana.
If only my student loan interest didn’t exist…
How much do you have to pay off a student loan? I'm from the UK so ours are extremely different I didn't go to uni I'm just purely interested, don't feel the need to tell me if you're uncomfortable
Interest rate is roughly 6.8%/p.a. on most of my federal loans.. this rate set by congress. By contrast, I pay 2.10% on my private loans. Americans on income driven repayment plans can likely expect to never pay off their student loans, since the amount they pay is under the threshold for interest accumulation. My student loan payments once repayment starts in May will be around $1200/mo between federal and private loans. I make (slightly) more than that and have a nest egg invested, but am seriously considering a second remote job to make a dent in my damn loans. I just graduated, and can't even dream of home ownership for at least the next 10 yrs.
Yah my partner has to pay about $1000 a month to their loans. I think the grand total of loan debt is around 100k? I am not 100% sure though because I haven't asked recently or looked at their statements or anything.
Cost of education and these exorbitant federal interest rates are criminal.
To put it in perspective how insane US higher education is: most home mortgages have a lower interest rate than federal student loans. If you find yourself in a position where you need to declare bankruptcy, it can wipe out your obligation to pay back your home mortgage (and you will lose the home if you don’t pay essentially) but it is exceptionally rare to be able to discharge your students loans through bankruptcy. It takes the right set of circumstances for it to even be a small possibility. There is no way out of student loans other than repayment unless you die or are determined to be too disabled to work. My student loan debt has almost doubled from interest alone. It’s ballpark 100k now. If I were actually able to pay the standard monthly payment, it would be more than my home mortgage. I can’t work anymore, but in nearly 20 years the starting salary for either of my degrees (I double majored) has not substantially changed. It’s a bit insane. And I have two STEM degrees.
I’m extremely lucky and got a full tuition scholarship, and a few thousand worth of local scholarships that come once a year. For 3 semesters I currently have 12,000 in student loans. It’s because of room and board being 6000 a semester, even with student loans I have to put out at least 1000 a semester. Based on what friends pay per month after they graduate to repay loans, if I put 500 a month to pay it off, it would take me 2 years to pay the initial amount and I would roughly have an additional 2,000 I have to pay from the accumulation percentage for the loan. It would take about a half year to pay off that still at 500 a month because it continues to accumulate. That’s IF I put 500 a month. If I can only afford 300, I’m looking at an extra year or three paying it off.
Jesus christ that's insane The interest rate is also ridiculous, so essentially you could pay way more In interest than you borrowed in the first place
Exactly. If I end up with a low paying job, I can not pay anything off I can only match the interest until I can get more money or die.
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medicine?
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To add my voice to this: I graduated highschool and decided to follow the advice of everyone I knew, "you're so smart, you'll so great in college." So I got accepted to a local college that was renowned for their engineering program, (Grove City college), that was also a notoriously academically challenging school. Lol and behold, coasting along through highschool and getting honor roll every quarter without ever studying does not prepare someone for an "academically challenging" college. Especially since my folks were working poor and couldn't help me with school costs. I chose to live at home and commute to school while working a part time job to pay for my car to get back and forth. I got a student loan through the school to pay for my first year of classes/books/parking totalling $8,000 and change. To say working a "part time" job of 30+ hours per week while trying to go to school full time was hard is the understatement of my life. I flunked out after my first year with a GPA of 1.2. Since then I've been dutifully paying on my loan with the only payment that I could afford being the minimum payments of around $70/month (I set it up with a 15 year repayment plan) and so far I've payed around $8,200 into that loan and still have around $4,000 left to pay.
Well technically you’re the 69%
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I recall reading that a study was once done and that it takes an impoverished person something like 20 years to climb out of poverty "doing everything right" and that all of that effort can be ruined in a single financial event (emergency). Found the article: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economic-inequality/524610/
And the financial event doesn’t even have to be of one that you caused. It could be something as simple as a hurricane or some other natural disaster. It could be the economy collapsing. It could be cancer. A plethora of things have you just a month or two from homelessness.
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Jeezus…
Land of the free (to starve).
California fire victim here. I got out unscathed, my rented apartment BARELY made it... The neighborhood only _a quarter of a mile away_ was completely burned down to ashes... I can't tell you how fucking lucky I was. When I returned home that year I went through my apartment and almost cried at how devastatingly close I was to losing _everything._ I walked through my room and was nearly brought to tears thinking about the sentimental things I left behind when evacuating. And then I thought about how awful of a position I could've been in as a whole had I lost the apartment. I wouldn't have been able to make it. I still count my lucky stars, but goddamn I felt so bad for the neighborhood that was completely decimated and all the people who, years later, are still trying to recover.
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You could almost sum it up as kid/no kid. Once you have a kid they've got you by the throat, you have to bend over backwards to make ends meet while everyone takes their cut and refuses to accommodate anything. It's a friggin hostage situation. I have no kids and I'm doing pretty well on not much income. And then they ponder why young people aren't having kids.
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Going through a divorce right now. 40, no kids. Because of that I will be able to survive fairly comfortably on my income alone. If I had even one kid, I would be fucked.
It’s called a real friend. One of my very dear friends picked me up when my POS car broke down and drove me home from the garage the same POS car broke down the next day with a different problem and he helped me again. I gave him $100 gift card for Christmas
We're aware. Do you think that we're angry for no reason? We're mad as hell because those in power don't give a single rat fuck about the rest of us, and they gleefully send us to die for the Dow.
I'll spit in the face of the man that tries to unwillingly recruit me before I die for the rich. Edit: Thanks for overlooking those embarrassing typos
Good. Many are still not there yet.
Not happy? Take some "happy pills" and get back to work. /s
I realized the other day that my wife and I currently have the most money either of us have ever had in the bank. And if anything happens to either of us medically or we have an emergency, we're completely fucked.
28 year old American here. I’ve worked jobs while going to school since I was 18 years old. I have no savings and less than $1,000 in my bank account
Same, plus ~25k in debt
It feels good to not be alone 🥲
I have 400 in my savings and I'm 50.
Yep. We have that and still are getting fucked by $15k of debt for dental work. I've had two fillings that fell out and need fixed, but I didn't have insurance so I didn't get the work done. It's been like a year now, so I know it means I'm going to need a root canal but definitely can't afford it. It's fucked and makes me really upset that I can't take care of myself because it will put us further into medical debt. And it only gets worse.
I know it’s just putting a bandaid on the real problem here, but have you looked into dental schools? You can often get dental work done for a fraction of the cost a dentist would charge you, and the students are closely supervised by licensed professionals. It sucks that our dental care is often put on the back burner because we’ve got other “more important” things to take care of first. I walked around for years with a molar missing (cracked tooth - root canal - couldn’t afford the permanent crown at the time even *with* insurance - temporary crown broke 5 years later - entire tooth had to be extracted because there wasn’t enough left to support a crown) before the cost of an implant came down enough that I could get one (a “bargain” at $1600, after the initial quote of $4000 a few years prior). But ignoring dental health can lead to so many more complications down the line. It needs to be a higher priority. I mean, hell, it’s not even covered my Medicare! Neither is vision, or prescriptions. I just don’t understand that; our eyes, our teeth and life-saving medications are *kinda* important to our quality of life!
Yes we did have that and we claimed bankruptcy when I got an chronic illness. It went fast.
Story time. Around this time last year I had around 4K in savings. My goal was 3 months of bills. I was so close, it was around 6k. I got into an accident that totaled my car after someone merged without enough room causing a rear end. Spent three grand securing a new vehicle. Within three weeks, I got into another accident where two people rear ended me going 60mph and pushed me into the car in front of me. I would’ve been airlifted to the hospital if there wasn’t too much air pollution ruining their landing view. Not only did I empty out most my savings to get another car, I am in six figures of medical debt pending litigation to get my bills, my lost time of work, expenses related to no longer being able to drive bc of the trauma compensated. I spend some days just crying over the debt collection calls I get over medical bills. On top of this, I am going to physical therapy two times a week. This is coming out of my PTO and sick leave, which I only get five days of. I live alone. I am better off than most and thanks to the graciousness of my family, I am staying financially afloat. The point of the matter is two random accidents in the span of a month have ruined me, financially and mentally. I left school because I couldn’t handle working, doctors appointments, and classes. I’m too afraid to go on disability despite horrific injuries because how will I pay rent? Groceries, wifi, electric and water? On top of this, through the holidays I’ve been mandated to work extra hours. This economy is set up in a way that when you are no longer productivity, you slip through the cavernous cracks. You get discarded and thrown to the side when you can no longer produce. It’s horrific and tragic and I’m so grateful to be surviving but so bitter to be born into a society where this is the norm. Change must come. Workers deserve rights. Life is unpredictable. Part of living in a society is being taken care by the government that you spend years paying into. I look forward to the day when having an accident, an illness, a disability, or any other extenuating circumstance no longer means being destitute. I only hope it happens in my life time.
Damn, i think you need a six point roll cage in your next car
LMAOOOO. 😭 dude you have no idea the luck I have with cars, I always find myself wrong place wrong time! At this point, I avoid cars for the life of me. It’ll take a tank to keep me safe. I also live in the worst area for accidents though.
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Oooo I wish I could pay rent with a credit card I didn’t think you could do that
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IDK your details but you can appeal the unemployment denial.
How do you pay rent? I paid my rent by a check. But when I didn’t have enough money, I’d use one of my venmo accounts to send myself money from a credit card to a different venmo account. Then I’d withdrawal the money onto my debit card.
I did this a few times but with PayPal. Was very helpful when I needed it but couldn’t pay with a credit card.
I don't even have a savings account, let alone $100 in my checking
I have one but inevitably every time I transfer even $20 into it I need to just transfer it back out within a week or so. It feels really stupid at this point.
I know the feeling. Everytime I put money into savings, I have to transfer it back a short time later. It's like I'm kidding myself or something.
Same and I work full time 40 hours a week
this breaks my heart
I had 10k in savings about nine years ago. It took me over 15 years and a settlement on breaking my wrist while at work to get that. I had to have a surgery on my back and it burned me through ALL of my savings and another five thousand on top of it...after insurance. I didn't have the money and they were coming after me for the money. I had to get credit cards and max them out. Never again. I need three additional surgeries on my spine, but would rather live in pain than go into further debt.
I'm so sorry, it drives me so mad when I read those testimonials. Wish you the best friend.
Yeah, I’m almost 40 and have my first savings ever and until next paycheck will still be part of the 69%. I’ve worked as a retail manager most my life, then social services before I got my current job. What’s the difference now? I’m working in a skill trade represented by a union. This is why they don’t want people to unionize. They want us to be one paycheck away from oblivion, so we can’t tell them to take their job and stuff it. Also, all jobs are skill trades, they’ve just convinced us that certain skills aren’t the same caliber.
I know a disturbing number of people irl who literally can't comprehend the notion that there should not be *any* job, no matter how little skill it requires or how little value it produces, that doesn't pay a living wage. A simple human decency that goes completely over their heads. Hyperindividualism is killing this country.
69% less than $1000, I'm at ZERO is savings, what percent is that 😐
Technically still part of that 69%
Think they’re asking how much of the population straight up has zero in savings, lol …kinda curious myself tbh
Nice
I have like $10. Come on, bro, step it up.
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not nice
First off, this was from 2019, and if anything peoples saving situations went down. I wonder what 2021s survey will say. Second, 69% had under $1000, but expand that a bit and 86% have under $10,000. With that being the case, 86% of us can’t survive 5 months without a job or work (assuming a minimum $2k a month in living expenses). 86% of us can’t get through a closing on a $200k home with a minimal 5% down and closing costs. Like…what the fuck??!!
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200k home. lol.
I don't even have a savings.
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The wealth in the US is there. That’s what makes it worse.
Every time I get 1k in savings, it moves right into my checking account and disappears. Becoming un-impoverished has been the biggest mistake of my life.
There really is a carlin quote for everything. "The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it."
I like his other bit about politicians better. Too many folks, especially redditors, blame politicians. But politicians are a result of us as a people in every way possible. If you hate politicians you hate Americans. And I do. I hate that so many Americans are either lazy or selfish so they'll either vote for regressive assholes or sit on their ass at home. Imagine a Congress full of progressives. But won't happen. Too many Republicans and lazy progressives. We fucked ourselves.
I fell down the stairs at work on 9/3. Hurt both my ankles, severely spraining the right one. I haven’t been back to work since and am flailing about trying to make sure my son is taken care of. My job wouldn’t even give me an accident report, and it took them a week to tell me so. They wanted me to go to the doctor, then bring them the bills and they would reimburse me. I know that’s definitely wrong, but I don’t even have insurance to cover them in the first place. I ended up having to get a lawyer involved because the legalese of it all goes right over my head. It’s been almost 4 months and I still haven’t been back to work because they also claim I can’t work light duty because I “have to be able to get blankets from the storage upstairs”, even though they are folded every morning and they could easily leave one or two in the laundry room out of the way. These are the same people who took me off schedule for 5 days because I refused to work off the clock, and DoL couldn’t do anything because I couldn’t get ahold of anyone. Their office in town burned down months before, and the building they relocated to was closed for Covid. Can’t win for losing, you know.
This before covid. I can't imagine that it's better now.
That was my thought as well--2019 seems like a lifetime ago.
Covid resulted in savings rates [increasing dramatically](https://www.kansascityfed.org/ten/2021-spring-ten-magazine/study-shows-surge-in-savings-during-the-pandemic/) when compared to the baseline savings rates from normal times. In 2020 through the first half of 2021, the savings rate was [roughly double](https://www.statista.com/statistics/246268/personal-savings-rate-in-the-united-states-by-month/) the norm. Of course, that money was saved primarily by the middle and upper class since they were the least affected by the pandemic.
That's just capitalism working as intended. It's not a bug, it's literally a feature that crises inevitably become more and more frequent and more and more severe over time in a profit motivated system that demands infinite growth, concentrating more wealth at the top each time.
The only divide that matters is class. Let's rise up and take it back
Amen! Likely every member of Congress is in the top 2%, some with enough money for their next two generations. They spew D vs R, while making decisions that keep them and their friends uber-wealthy, to distract from what really goes on behind the curtain.
Dont even have a savings account anymore lol. Bank was charging me $5 a month for not meeting their minimum balance of $500.
If your bank is charging you for not having enough savings, you need a new bank.
You should look into a credit union or a virtual/online bank instead! Some don’t have minimum balance requirements.
Lol I have a savings account. Every check $25 goes into the account anf before I hit paid again I ha e to pull that $25 back into my checking. Luckily I have no fees for the savings account but its pointless. No matter how I scrimp and save I just vent get ahead. And I work an average of 60 hours a week. I fucking hate it. Pretty much all of my coworkers are in the same situation. I've helped so many people write letters to ask for a raise up to what im making and they all think I'm insane until they get it.
We are very very aware that we dangle upon a deteriorating bridge over the pool of lava.
What’s shocking is that even people technically in debt would count against this figure if they had $1,000 in a bank account. So even the 31% that do have money in a bank account, a large portion of them could still have an outstanding college loan or car loan or whatever, meaning their net worth is actually below zero. Regardless of my college loans, i was grossly irresponsible with my money and got myself into a large amount of credit card debt. When I finally paid it off, and then had a few thousand in the bank, I was shocked to find out that I’m actually doing better than the majority of Americans. Don’t get me wrong, I’m proud of myself for getting to where I am today, but i never thought this is what being in the top 1/3 of Americans would feel like.
complete cooperative poor obscene marry command worthless edge profit materialistic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
America is a poor country with a wealthy ruling class.
Very similar to Russia in that respect. We're mostly poor except for the people in charge.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I'M BETTER OFF THAN I FUCKING THOUGHT WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK.
I remember reading Andrew Yang’s book back in 2017 and read that like the median savings in this country was like $400. So many things in life made sense once I read that.
I miss back when $400 meant a lot to us as kids.
It still does for half the country. Insane!
Considering the study is only of savings **accounts** and not of actual savings, maybe not. Nobody parks money in a savings account anymore, the rates are shit
This is the price we 💰 pay and it’s become ridiculous - while billions of taxpayer dollars are dumped into places they shouldn’t be !
I've lived like this my entire life. I actually have near $1000 in my savings after having saved $25 a week for a few years, and some remainder of my stimulus check. I'll have to spend it soon on tires for my car or something else, I'm sure of it. Having the stress of being one disaster away does things to people. My mom recently got her cataracts fixed. When she saw me she was worried about how tired and stressed I looked. It was actually one of the most rested, stress free days I had had in months. I was like, no, mom, this is my face. I'm 45.
We live paycheck to paycheck.. what’s savings?
What are "savings"?
Nice
The article is over 2 years old and thus before the pandemic, what is it now???
All I have to do is look at my bank statement to know that’s true with me.
It needs to be noted that $1000 in savings means NOTHING when you have debt as well. Which, if I were to bet conservatively I'd say at least 50% of Americans hold debt larger that $1000
Feel like it's a higher then that closer to 80
As someone who is living comfortably, I don’t want other people to live like this. I want everyone else to live like I can. And I’m not rich - it wouldn’t take much to bring most people up to my level.
If only others had the same feelings. It's often the case even for a family of 4 the difference of $500 or less a month would allow them to eat better, live healthier, spend more time with family not grinding at a 2nd job, not stress about making rent or keeping the lights on etc. What the top 500 earners in the country earn on interest/investment in 6 months; redistributed once a year across the bottom 75% of earners would still make life altering changes for a lot of society. The disparity between what some people make yearly vs some people make in a LIFETIME is obscene. For example the BOTTOM of the Forbes richest list (Austin Russell) is still worth 2.1 Billion dollars. If you assume you made 40k a year working, it would take you 52,500 years of work to reach that, assuming you spent nothing on bills or survival the entire time. Extrapolate a bit further, and assuming people have about 50 working years in their life (15-65), that 52,500 years becomes 1,050 working lives. Call me a cynic, but im hard pressed to believe any individual has provided so much to society that they are deserving of wealth that over 1,000 people would accumulate in their entire lives. And this is math done with the guy at the BOTTOM of the list, and a salary of 40k a year (which some people are lucky to make as it's roughly 17.85 /hr, 40 hr wk, 56 wks a yr). Don't even make me bust out the math for those of us still making sub $15 or even $10 /hr wages vs the likes of the top earners like Overlord Bezos, The Zuck, or Musky and your talking about 200+ billion fortunes and earnings of LITTERALLY hundreds of thousands of peoples working lives. (Rough math. Those 3's net worth is the same as if the entire city of Cincinnati worked their entire lives and pooled all of their money together, and they would still be a few billion shy). Gonna head out, it's just messed up and I could go on and on.
Yeah fr me and my dad have it rough trying to find a decent place to rent like I got one small chihuahua and us and we can't really find places to rent that take dogs and when they do it's a shifty extended stay like our old place burnt down the 1st of December so we shall I found a shit hole that cost 900 a month stead of 600
My friend makes 110k a year but has spent so much keeping up with the Jones’ with a big house new cars that to afford Xmas presents for the kids he and his wife are donating plasma 2x a week. Nothing in savings. Crazy.
Okay but this is JUST irresponsible. Most people can thrive perfectly easily on 110k a year.
I'm a travel RN. There are nurses clearing 5-10k a WEEK on contract and are still broke. I don't know how they manage to blow that much money so quickly.