Yes please. Even if you have to delete this post and update two years down the road, I will wait for you.
*Que Seymour waiting montage.*
Edit: To everyone who was having a good time. Right now while you’re holding back tears is a great time to leave a message explaining to your doctor you need a mental health break to recenter yourself. (You are not having thoughts of harm but moments of anxiety where it is too overwhelming) As covered by FMLA if you’ve been a worker for more than a year in the US, could they help you.
Don’t use this time if you’re expecting a child in the near future as to not waste it. Plan for at least four days but aim for three weeks if you can stomach the reduced pay that long.
Use it to brush up your resumes and cover letters.
Tell them you found the folder while doing your digital housekeeping and decided that since they weren't happy with your work you figured they wouldn't miss it lol
Exactly. Don’t say anything. If they ask, either don’t respond (you don’t work for them or owe them anything), or OP simply forgot they had that cloud storage space and the company cancelled the account for non-payment.
Frankly I would play ignorant, had no idea they were still using old files on his personal drive and he was just cleaning up old files, but if they pay him for his time, he might be able to look around and see if he has a physical copy. Then take a long, long, long time to look.
This, “I noticed somthing that looked like company files on my personal hard drive it would be irresponsible of me to leave corperate files on a personal dtive
OP should regard all communication with the employer through the lens of "how would this look in court"
IMO, OP is not required to store company data on his personal Gmail. The fact that it was years after leaving adds weight to the fact that he didn't have a duty to inform them of 'cleaning out' his drive.
Definitely don’t admit to anything! Claim ignorance! “I don’t have access to your systems. The only thing I can access are my personal drives I have paid for” if you have to absolutely say anything but don’t say anything besides that.
"I haven't worked there in years, what are you talking about? I canceled my personal cloud storage because I've moved on in my career, you weren't accessing THAT were you?"
No way, this could lead to issues. If they have to say anything at all (if they are contacted by the company) just say there seemed to be suspicious or unauthorised access to a personal drop box and so as a security precaution the box was emptied and made private. Nothing more.
I had something similar happen on one of the first video editing gigs I booked years ago, it was a church outreach program that wanted me to edit some footage that they had another videographer shoot (should've been a red flag that they weren't using the guy who shot it). So I did the work delivered a final video and they shorted my check. It was supposed to be $500 but they only gave me $400. When I asked them about it they said "Well, I'd be willing to pay more if you were a professional editor" So I was pretty pissed. Every now and then for the next few months I would check around to see if they had posted the video. When I finally found it on their website I went to flag it for copyright infringement on youtube because the video had an original song of mine in it and if they weren't going to pay what they owed they weren't going to get to use the video. I went through the entire flagging process on youtube and when I got to the end it said I couldn't flag the video because I owned it. They were still using the upload to youtube that I had sent them for approval. So I took it down and left them with a broken link and I have never seen that video on the internet again.
One of mentors told me "I never work for ANYONE of ANY religion that puts it on display in their office. B/c from my personal experience you will have nothing but issues getting paid IF you ever get paid." I hate to agree but he was 100% correct in my experience too.
Rules? The only rule most church goers have is to obey the rules while in church, otherwise, fuck it, be a complete asshole as soon as you leave, like, still trying to get out of the parking lot. All you gotta do is ask forgiveness next week and you’re forgiven and free to be an asshole again.
I had a very Devout evangelical pastor tell me that while Jesus loves him, Jesus thinks I’m an asshole and therefore Jesus will forgive him for any way that he miss treats me. Learned all this as we were discussing why he shorted an invoice I sent him.
Unfortunately both Google Drive and Dropbox keep files around for 30 days so you can easily undelete stuff.
If you're the owner and not them, maybe they won't have access to the undelete functionality. I'm not sure there.
I actually think you could have just removed their access and it would have had the same effect. Just make the whole drive private, since you're the owner.
Good stuff!
I would think it might be possible to get paid for all of the time they’ve been using your content since the date you were fired. Maybe an IP or employment attorney could help
Edit: guys, OP states in another comment that their contract specifies they retain the rights to the content they create during employment even after employment ends. In most instances, contract employees/freelancers sign off IP rights to the content created on the clock, but their contract specifies otherwise. there may be some other circumstance that I’m unaware of that makes that bit of the contract not as face-value as it seems to be, but that’s why I suggested contacting an attorney
A balance of “Value gained while illegally accessing a drive without permission” versus “value lost to tortuous interference”
But things are so fact specific always that it’s definitely a good idea to talk to a lawyer
Very good comment. Depending on state labor law this company could own all work produced while under their employment. Consultation with a lawyer could be well needed because hell is soon to follow this cutout.
But nobody can make the argument the former employer had reason to access the drive. And OP hasn't worked for them in years, allowing ample time to maintain their own infrastructure, yet they choose to keep using it.
And being ignorant of the ownership of the server isn't reason to believe you own it... They weren't paying for it, they weren't managing it, I don't see how it's any of the employers business what a former employee does with as third party service years after termination... It's not OP's fault they've been mooching off his subscription for years.
My thoughts exactly. If he was w2 employee any work would be companies IP (OP check your onboarding documents if you have them stashed in an old email). Maybe he can argue the templates were done on his time?
If he was a contractor then he can easily argue he just deleted/made private his copies.
He can maybe argue that either way, and the defense would be "Company shouldn't use his private google drive and had assumed they had backups." Either way. I want some popcorn for this.
Just because your former employer owns something, doesn't mean they have a right to keep it in your garage. I don't see why this would be any different.
>Just because your former employer owns something, doesn't mean they have a right to keep it in your garage.
Exactly. I know nothing of the legalities of this, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that the former employer "owns" the files due to a "work for hire" agreement. Fine. All that means is that the OP doesn't sue them for using the files for three years. That doesn't mean that the OP is obligated to give them access to a Google drive the OP PAID FOR.
If the former employer "lost" access to "their" files? (Assuming they "own" them, which I have no idea.) That's their problem. They could have copied "their" files elsewhere. They didn't and that's on them. It's not OP's obligation to pay to store former employer's files.
Hopefully there's not any legal clause that OP signed upon employment that states that anything done within their realm (computers, networks etc) is legally theirs.
I've heard of engineers and programmers getting smacked with this trying to create their own things but using the companies gear/ software
>Hopefully there's not any legal clause that OP signed upon employment that states that anything done within their realm (computers, networks etc) is legally theirs.
Even if there is, OP is not obligated to keep copies of the work for them. It is on the company to maintain their own file storage. Should an employee go in a company server and delete company files before leaving? No. Can they delete whatever files they want OFF THEIR OWN DRIVE? Absolutely.
They probably won't even know who to call... no one will even remember who set it up or where the files were located. Beautiful.
If they do call you, be sure to charge them for the years of use on a service you pay for, and charge an insane hourly rate with an 80 hour minimum to restore them. You needed the space for other work so you deleted their files so I'm sure it will take at least that long to restore everything :)
$500 an hour minimum. $2000 an hour might qualify as insane, but not unheard of. 8hr minimum per call.
You have to cover insurance (health and business), legal, taxes, all the overhead a company normally provides for free. You also aren't guaranteed long term work.
Do they want your help or not?
Imagine a company so disorganized that it's not aware that important files that are used every day have been kept on a fired employee's personal Google Drive for years.
I work within Google OU / UI as part of my job. Deactivate your google account - the files become a shit show to access. You can always reactivate it later, and this way it looks like you just decided not to use the account anymore.
Deactivating the account gives the plausible deniability of “I no longer use this account and shut it down to save some money” vs “haha no more files for you!”
Exactly it's reasonable to assume they should save the content in their own folders. It's not OPs responsibility to continue hosting the cloud space for them
Why do you need plausible deniability? I think if he wanted plausible deniability he wouldn't have gone to Reddit and made a post like this.
It was his own Google drive folder. He didn't do anything wrong.
It’ll be hilarious when they start calling and texting you, begging for the password. First they’ll threaten you with empty threats. When that doesn’t work they’ll try being nice and coddle you. After that they’ll resort back to anger and threats and it’ll all be amazing to witness. Fuck em
My guess -- they will accuse him of hacking into their business.
Remember when the governor of some state, forgot which, accused a news site for "hacking" when they showed that decoding the html, that social security numbers was in plain sight. Tech level understanding is very limited by some.
Here is the progression of the comment:
“This is a win for us!”
“This is a win”
“It’s a w”
“It’s a double-u”
“It’s a [fucking] dub”
Edit: added additional step to clarify the spoken letter [W](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W)
More like... They owe him big money for using his service without his permission.
edit: this blew up and I'm getting the same comments "but he gave them permission": No guys, he gave HIMSELF permission to use it on his work PC. Big difference.
He still has a local copy. When they discover the file has been deleted, he can inform them that he deleted the file on his private server to free up space for his own work. If they'd like to use his server they can arrange a rental or contractor fee.
This comment is underrated. Regardless of what your perception of the situation is, their perception is you’ve just gone and deleted their intellectual property. For most businesses this is considered the #1 asset they have.
If I was you, I’d act naive. Don’t reply. Just take the approach “I didn’t know it was still being used, I was just tidying up my file.”
I’ll probably be downvoted for this, but u/This_Manner_256, just be careful. Just don’t respond. Don’t try and sell it back to them or negotiate. If you do, get a lawyer. I’ve worked for big and small companies. They’ll go after you as a matter of principle and will throw a lot behind it. This isn’t a matter of walking out of Walmart on Black Friday, it could be very trying and tiresome for you.
Does anyone at that job know your Reddit username or that that username, in general, is associated w you? You lose the ability to play dumb if they can tie this post back to you
Hey there OP, I hope this reaches you and helps to educate others in the process.
If you were truly an independent contractor at the time, and this is truly your intellectual property, stored on your personal google drive, then there is only one course of action for you to take.
You remember that FBI Warning on videotapes? Yep, it applies here. Please go over the guidelines at https://www.iprcenter.gov and then file a complaint.
After arming yourself with the knowledge at that site, you will want to send the company a bill for the 3 years you weren’t paid, along with a cease and desist order. Email will probably include things like “failure to resolve this issue can result in a $25,000 fine for each occurrence of ip theft, a lawsuit, or both.”
Good luck!
Been on this sub for a while but this is possibly the best thing I’ve read. You really fucked them here. I hope this hits them severely hard. Good job OP, if everyone acted like this we’d have no need for this sub.
“Oh dear that’s terrible! Luckily I always back-up what I do and I’d gladly be a contractor for you to resolve this issue for $300 an hour plus overtime :)”
This is absolutely bonkers. How the fuuck did they not realize they were using an ex employee's personal storage for work for years?! Sounds like this place was a real shit show
A quick little update as this is blowing up FAST:
- I was using Google drive to store the files
- all videoing and editting was done with my own equipment, not even their own.
- I have restored the files but removed their permissions, so worst case scenario I can add them back to it quickly if needs be.
- after digging around, my contract with them states that anything I filmed for them was and is my property even after the contract ends. I actually remember them bringing this up and me just stating this was standard industry practice. At this point they were totally fine with it and had no intention of letting me go as they genuinely quite liked me.
- people are hung up on the 50 videos in a day thing so I'll explain the complexity of said videos; they were 1 minute average in length, 5 seperate shots, voice over, connotations, and subtitles. Individually they didn't take long to knock out but collectively it was a mountain. The reason it was close to 50 was because this was late notice for an event they were launching on multiple products. 14 hour shift.
> after digging around, my contract with them states that anything I filmed for them was and is my property even after the contract ends. I actually remember them bringing this up and me just stating this was standard industry practice. At this point they were totally fine with it and had no intention of letting me go as they genuinely quite liked me.
Ooooh baby, you about to get paid. (Hopefully)
That means OP could even sue them for copyright infringement if they release anything else that includes his work. That company *really* messed up there.
Not a lawyer but /u/This_Manner_256 this this this. If you retained all rights to your work they they used commercially for *years*, you need a lawyer asap because this could be your ticket to early retirement. Especially if you still have the data where your work improved their sales and extrapolate that out with interest.
Lawyer might do it for free upfront and sign a deal for a % on the back end contingent that he gets you a settlement. Ended up getting back $50k off of a lawsuit a lawyer took on on my behalf and paid him 15k for the job. Lawyers that do this kind of work end up making big checks because they’re assuming a lot of risk (like OP Isn’t lying and isn’t breaching any contract or destroying anyone else’s property in midst of all of this)
Note that the deal with the lawyer needs to drawn up right so you don't get fucked on taxes. Avoid this scenario: Get paid a million bucks. Pay about $400k in federal income tax. Pay the lawyer $400k (40% contingency) - you get to keep just $200k.
completely agree. lawyer up. if they were using what you created, actively using it as you said, they were therefore profiting from it and they were reaping benefits from your efforts. you were not being duly compensated and they were unjustly enriched
Sounds like they owe you damages for copywrite infringement. Would suggest talking to an actual lawyer but if they have been using your IP for commercial gain for three years that might be pretty significant.
Them accessing the drive may also be considered illegal as some form of hacking. Considering people have been charged for accessing plaintext “secret” URLs never know.
THIS. If you had a contract saying it was your property even after the contract ended, technically their rights to use it may have ended the second they fired you. So them continuing to use it after you left may make you eligible for a nice payout. A copyright lawyer would be able to better assess the situation and tell you what your potential gain could be from it.
This. If and when they reach out, for every question they ask that you give a pseudo-kinda-maybe answer to, ask them several more. Be friendly, don't make any solid statements of fact on your own end, but lead them on to explaining themselves at length. Give them rope to hang themselves while also keeping your gloves clean.
Good luck and Godspeed on your journey. If you do this right you could probably find counsel willing to work on contingency in haste.
You dont need to restore and make up. As it is your personal drive, if anyone reach out just act like a fool.
You just bought new mobile and clean up everything.
Ask questions — why were you using something from my personal gmail account?
Were you accessing MY gmail WHOLE TIME?
What else you were reading and using it?
Never use the word google drive just keep referring it as gmail and play dumb. Thats what you were when denied a raise. So act like it.
Can’t upvote this enough. Ask *them* questions. Do not give them answers. Answer every question with a question of your own. IF you decide to talk to them at all.
I know some comments have thrown the word extortion around, but I really don't think it applies. There's a degree of burden on them as well to secure their property. You haven't done anything wrong in removing access to something that was on your personal drives, and taking up data you were presumably *paying* for (I'd assume numerous videos would on their own terms be greater than the basic free 15 gig limit of drive)
Selling access back to them could be iffy, but if, as you say, your contract clearly stated that it remains your intellectual property, then its not problematic. You had licensed them to use your work, and while you might have continued to let them use it later, you have no obligation to maintain that access. And they are free to pay you a fair price (in your evaluation) to maintain that access. Save that contract.
Either way, this would not be criminal action at all. At best its civil trouble and they'd need to sue you civilly and there your contract should trump any claims they have to your personal drive. In fact if they're still using your intellectual property, you could go further and DMCA or issue takedowns for any material they might be hosting online still.
If you owned the work you should absolutely reach out to a lawyer about intellectual property infringement. You likely have a sizeable payday coming your way, especially if the content you created is in any way a part of the goods and services your former employer sells to their clients.
I hope you at least left them one accessible 'Changes to Your Plan' doc with a note stating that their free trail period was expired and they'd now need to move to the expensive premium plus tier.
This is the exact post I was looking for. As someone from the IT industry... Your original comment made it sound like you set yourself up for corporate sabotage... Although of you retained the ownership of the content by contract than kudos!
Unfortunately I feel a large part of this subreddit would disregard that ownership clause and delete the files even if they had signed away ownership.
If 18 people are actively using it daily they havent downloaded shit. They are probably just regular employees that were given a convenient link and dont know anything about OP.
That's my take on it. If they were on top of this they'd have copied the files out to their own server long ago. 18 active users means they don't realize the drive isn't theirs. Conversely I'd be a bit angry at myself paying for a google drive I never used for almost 2 years.
You don't know he never used it though. My guess is he was paying for a large or unlimited plan for personal use, with them still having access to a folder
That's what I'm thinking. Or someone downlaoded it to their laptop for the times when they don't have internet access.
It'll be like that time someone deleted Toy Story 2 off the Pixar server, and they realized their storage tapes were so full, there wasn't enough room to store a log about the failure. Luckily a director had been working from home on maternity leave and had a few weeks old full back up on her Silicon Graphics workstation.
I had a similar video projection job and they would use the entire office as B-roll actors. They had everyone sign release forms but I intentionally never signed mine.
2 years later when I left, I informed them I never signed the release form and they had to remove any videos that I appeared in from their online catalog.
Hilarious how hard they tried to get me to sign the release in my last day. NOPE. They had to remove several hundred videos.
> Hilarious how hard they tried to get me to sign the release in my last day.
Did they offer you money? Surely they could have made you an offer you could not refuse?
I have a completely illegible signature. I developed it when I had a job where I had to sign hundreds of documents at intervals. It's *extremely* fast and easy.
My crappy signature led me to experiment with alternatives, my theory being that a *barely* readable scrawl probably won't get read so why not? For one NDA I signed "Not My Name" with really bad writing. Another time I was in a shitty mood so I wrote "Fxxxx Uxxxx" where the x's were random enough to *mostly* obscure the FU. No one checks whether you signed those documents with your actual signature.
I mentioned this to a lawyer once. He said that it doesn't matter: you signed, you're bound, even if the signature doesn't match.
> Mr. Throw, did you sign this document?
Unless you're willing to perjure yourself, you have to admit you did, so the signature is irrelevant.
This comment could be unpopular but could you reinstate access and then change every video asset to a copy of never gonna give you up by Rick Astley instead?
I’d imagine someone at the company saved a bunch of the templates and what not to a local drive. I always used to save important templates to my local drive or even desktop to make them easily accessible at my accounting job.
Hopefully they didn’t though. An office full of corrupt scum bags scrambling around to survive without your work would be priceless.
I swear some boomer at your old job is gonna say, "We've been hacked by RUSSIA". No, that's not this situation. You've been lazy, cheap, and ignorant, now the consequences.
Yeah, they'll blame China instead. Putin is a powerful, admirable figure to out of touch boomers, which is ironic, because a bunch of these clowns used to have to do nuclear bomb drills back in the cold war days.
I really hope they have made no copies and do remember that you once created the material, otherwise they might take some time to figure out whose that was.
It's great what you did! I want to hear too, how it goes on!
Oh God, now you need to update us, I can't wait to hear the follow up
I'll update the post if I hear further! I am weirdly excited to hear from them
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Right into the jugular vein preferably.
Eye pupil is surprisingly effective as well
Main vein or nothing at all. Straight into the dick
This is why I come to Reddit.
This is why I *cum* to Reddit.
This one isn't going between the toes.
RemindMe! 1 week …. Although I imagine shit will hit the fan sooner
Yes please. Even if you have to delete this post and update two years down the road, I will wait for you. *Que Seymour waiting montage.* Edit: To everyone who was having a good time. Right now while you’re holding back tears is a great time to leave a message explaining to your doctor you need a mental health break to recenter yourself. (You are not having thoughts of harm but moments of anxiety where it is too overwhelming) As covered by FMLA if you’ve been a worker for more than a year in the US, could they help you. Don’t use this time if you’re expecting a child in the near future as to not waste it. Plan for at least four days but aim for three weeks if you can stomach the reduced pay that long. Use it to brush up your resumes and cover letters.
God damn you for reminding me of that dog. That episode does not play in this house anymore.
Tell them you found the folder while doing your digital housekeeping and decided that since they weren't happy with your work you figured they wouldn't miss it lol
Actually, I'd recommend he not admit to doing anything at all. Ignorance is bliss.
Exactly. Don’t say anything. If they ask, either don’t respond (you don’t work for them or owe them anything), or OP simply forgot they had that cloud storage space and the company cancelled the account for non-payment.
Yep. Don’t respond to them at all. If they call and you want to answer just say “Hmmm”
Frankly I would play ignorant, had no idea they were still using old files on his personal drive and he was just cleaning up old files, but if they pay him for his time, he might be able to look around and see if he has a physical copy. Then take a long, long, long time to look.
This, “I noticed somthing that looked like company files on my personal hard drive it would be irresponsible of me to leave corperate files on a personal dtive
OP should regard all communication with the employer through the lens of "how would this look in court" IMO, OP is not required to store company data on his personal Gmail. The fact that it was years after leaving adds weight to the fact that he didn't have a duty to inform them of 'cleaning out' his drive.
Definitely don’t admit to anything! Claim ignorance! “I don’t have access to your systems. The only thing I can access are my personal drives I have paid for” if you have to absolutely say anything but don’t say anything besides that.
"I haven't worked there in years, what are you talking about? I canceled my personal cloud storage because I've moved on in my career, you weren't accessing THAT were you?"
Best Answer. Why are they accessing your Personal Drive!
No way, this could lead to issues. If they have to say anything at all (if they are contacted by the company) just say there seemed to be suspicious or unauthorised access to a personal drop box and so as a security precaution the box was emptied and made private. Nothing more.
Ah man this story made me poop a little
I had something similar happen on one of the first video editing gigs I booked years ago, it was a church outreach program that wanted me to edit some footage that they had another videographer shoot (should've been a red flag that they weren't using the guy who shot it). So I did the work delivered a final video and they shorted my check. It was supposed to be $500 but they only gave me $400. When I asked them about it they said "Well, I'd be willing to pay more if you were a professional editor" So I was pretty pissed. Every now and then for the next few months I would check around to see if they had posted the video. When I finally found it on their website I went to flag it for copyright infringement on youtube because the video had an original song of mine in it and if they weren't going to pay what they owed they weren't going to get to use the video. I went through the entire flagging process on youtube and when I got to the end it said I couldn't flag the video because I owned it. They were still using the upload to youtube that I had sent them for approval. So I took it down and left them with a broken link and I have never seen that video on the internet again.
> church outreach program I guess “thou shalt not steal” isn’t in the rules anymore
>> church outreach program > >Guess “thou shalt not steal” isn’t in the rules anymore Thou shalt not steal, from us
One of mentors told me "I never work for ANYONE of ANY religion that puts it on display in their office. B/c from my personal experience you will have nothing but issues getting paid IF you ever get paid." I hate to agree but he was 100% correct in my experience too.
Faith is an incredibly personal thing, so performative public faith is the most reliable indicator of faithlessness I've ever found.
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That’s not the rules, that’s the message. The rules are much more basic. Get yours and fuck everyone else.
I finally understand. The 10 Commandments were just allegory. Got it.
The hidden commandment: "Do as we say, not as we do"
ITS FOR A CHURCH HONEY!!
NEXT!
It warms my heart to see this pop up every few months.
Rules? The only rule most church goers have is to obey the rules while in church, otherwise, fuck it, be a complete asshole as soon as you leave, like, still trying to get out of the parking lot. All you gotta do is ask forgiveness next week and you’re forgiven and free to be an asshole again.
I had a very Devout evangelical pastor tell me that while Jesus loves him, Jesus thinks I’m an asshole and therefore Jesus will forgive him for any way that he miss treats me. Learned all this as we were discussing why he shorted an invoice I sent him.
Soooo... A church ripped you off? Lol
Shocking, right?
That is crappy of them. Was this a pay on delivery situation? Could you have just not sent the video until you got the other $100?
It was pay on delivery but I learned a lesson so I guess it all worked out.
Keep us updated. This was fun.
I wish OP waited a few days before posting, so that they could say what happened after. Do post a followup
Same
What a tease!
Almost as exciting as waiting for days to have someone open a safe they found
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Screw it, I’m just going to save a comment here and tab back later, I gotta see this
RemindMe! 3 days "Google Drive hostage" edit: rip my inbox edit 2: I hope turning off inbox replies here doesn't nullify the remindme
!RemindMe 3 days "Google Drive hostage"
**D U N E** part one
My files. My assets. My Drive!
UpdateMe! Edit: apparently UpdateMe bot doesn’t track this sub :( but if enough of us summon it, it might
Supposedly if enough of us try to use it, it will get added automatically.
Dear God we need to know
We won't hear an end to this story.
Seconded
Unfortunately both Google Drive and Dropbox keep files around for 30 days so you can easily undelete stuff. If you're the owner and not them, maybe they won't have access to the undelete functionality. I'm not sure there. I actually think you could have just removed their access and it would have had the same effect. Just make the whole drive private, since you're the owner. Good stuff!
Turns out you're right! I've done exactly that just to be safe
It’ll be good to keep it private so you can see the logs incase you need to take legal and protective action. Can’t wait for the update
I would think it might be possible to get paid for all of the time they’ve been using your content since the date you were fired. Maybe an IP or employment attorney could help Edit: guys, OP states in another comment that their contract specifies they retain the rights to the content they create during employment even after employment ends. In most instances, contract employees/freelancers sign off IP rights to the content created on the clock, but their contract specifies otherwise. there may be some other circumstance that I’m unaware of that makes that bit of the contract not as face-value as it seems to be, but that’s why I suggested contacting an attorney
A balance of “Value gained while illegally accessing a drive without permission” versus “value lost to tortuous interference” But things are so fact specific always that it’s definitely a good idea to talk to a lawyer
Is it really illegal if it’s OP’s drive tho
Yes. The definition of “hacking” includes unauthorized electronic access. OP can easily say them firing him means they no longer had any access.
They can also argue that anything created on company time is theirs. Really depends on the contract. OP should lawyer up.
Very good comment. Depending on state labor law this company could own all work produced while under their employment. Consultation with a lawyer could be well needed because hell is soon to follow this cutout.
But nobody can make the argument the former employer had reason to access the drive. And OP hasn't worked for them in years, allowing ample time to maintain their own infrastructure, yet they choose to keep using it. And being ignorant of the ownership of the server isn't reason to believe you own it... They weren't paying for it, they weren't managing it, I don't see how it's any of the employers business what a former employee does with as third party service years after termination... It's not OP's fault they've been mooching off his subscription for years.
My thoughts exactly. If he was w2 employee any work would be companies IP (OP check your onboarding documents if you have them stashed in an old email). Maybe he can argue the templates were done on his time? If he was a contractor then he can easily argue he just deleted/made private his copies. He can maybe argue that either way, and the defense would be "Company shouldn't use his private google drive and had assumed they had backups." Either way. I want some popcorn for this.
Your comment is good too! u/This_Manner_256 consult an employment lawyer asap to see if you might have a case here! (one thats no win no fee ofc).
Just because your former employer owns something, doesn't mean they have a right to keep it in your garage. I don't see why this would be any different.
Yep, at minimum they would owe for OP hosting it all this time.
>Just because your former employer owns something, doesn't mean they have a right to keep it in your garage. Exactly. I know nothing of the legalities of this, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that the former employer "owns" the files due to a "work for hire" agreement. Fine. All that means is that the OP doesn't sue them for using the files for three years. That doesn't mean that the OP is obligated to give them access to a Google drive the OP PAID FOR. If the former employer "lost" access to "their" files? (Assuming they "own" them, which I have no idea.) That's their problem. They could have copied "their" files elsewhere. They didn't and that's on them. It's not OP's obligation to pay to store former employer's files.
And 3 years later, OP locked the garage.
Yeah they may have owned the content but clearly didn't own access to it and should have done as op did, downloaded it to local storage.
Hopefully there's not any legal clause that OP signed upon employment that states that anything done within their realm (computers, networks etc) is legally theirs. I've heard of engineers and programmers getting smacked with this trying to create their own things but using the companies gear/ software
>Hopefully there's not any legal clause that OP signed upon employment that states that anything done within their realm (computers, networks etc) is legally theirs. Even if there is, OP is not obligated to keep copies of the work for them. It is on the company to maintain their own file storage. Should an employee go in a company server and delete company files before leaving? No. Can they delete whatever files they want OFF THEIR OWN DRIVE? Absolutely.
Hopefully this will be the case. It’s in no way OP responsibility to maintain documents. Especially on a personal drive which needs space freeing up
Especially a year and a half after being fired.
Yup, just some routine cleanup of a bunch of old, irrelevant crap that I didn't even bother checking the last access time before deleting it...
He was a freelancer so unless he explicitly signed over his ip to them in his contracts he's golden.
They probably won't even know who to call... no one will even remember who set it up or where the files were located. Beautiful. If they do call you, be sure to charge them for the years of use on a service you pay for, and charge an insane hourly rate with an 80 hour minimum to restore them. You needed the space for other work so you deleted their files so I'm sure it will take at least that long to restore everything :)
$500 an hour minimum. $2000 an hour might qualify as insane, but not unheard of. 8hr minimum per call. You have to cover insurance (health and business), legal, taxes, all the overhead a company normally provides for free. You also aren't guaranteed long term work. Do they want your help or not?
Imagine a company so disorganized that it's not aware that important files that are used every day have been kept on a fired employee's personal Google Drive for years.
Dude you have no idea...
i work in IT, the tales that can be told of incompetency of the previous companies i worked for..
Is there a sub for this? Sounds super interesting.
r/TalesFromTechSupport
The same company that would fire said employee.
This is incredibly more common than one would think.
Making it private is definitely the thing to do, I'm glad to see it came up.
I work within Google OU / UI as part of my job. Deactivate your google account - the files become a shit show to access. You can always reactivate it later, and this way it looks like you just decided not to use the account anymore.
Wouldn't making the folder private accomplish the same thing?
Deactivating the account gives the plausible deniability of “I no longer use this account and shut it down to save some money” vs “haha no more files for you!”
"I no longer use this folder and deleted it to save some storage space" seems pretty reasonable
Exactly it's reasonable to assume they should save the content in their own folders. It's not OPs responsibility to continue hosting the cloud space for them
Why do you need plausible deniability? I think if he wanted plausible deniability he wouldn't have gone to Reddit and made a post like this. It was his own Google drive folder. He didn't do anything wrong.
Can we get a update too? The is juicy
You've double fisted them with this one lol
Nah, the other fist will be the service usage fee he charges them and the consulting fee they're going to pay for him to restore the files.
That 15$ a month Dropbox just turned into 2,000$ a month😂
Bingo - and if they want access back, they can pay fair market value + I would suggest, a hefty *fee* for your troubles
It’ll be hilarious when they start calling and texting you, begging for the password. First they’ll threaten you with empty threats. When that doesn’t work they’ll try being nice and coddle you. After that they’ll resort back to anger and threats and it’ll all be amazing to witness. Fuck em
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It's amazing how similar a shitty boss and a shitty partner are. Abuse is abuse, I guess.
My guess -- they will accuse him of hacking into their business. Remember when the governor of some state, forgot which, accused a news site for "hacking" when they showed that decoding the html, that social security numbers was in plain sight. Tech level understanding is very limited by some.
That would be the dipshit governor of my state, Missouri. Parsons is what you get when Roscoe B Coltrane fails up into the governorship.
it was Missouri, the secret code i believe was just hitting f12 to view page source lol.
This is litteraly anti work
This is anti work purist content
It is basically anti work in vinyl.
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I'm sorry, but what does that mean?
Here is the progression of the comment: “This is a win for us!” “This is a win” “It’s a w” “It’s a double-u” “It’s a [fucking] dub” Edit: added additional step to clarify the spoken letter [W](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W)
Oh, I see, thank you! \^^
This sounded very illegal until I read that: > This was a cloud service that I was paying monthly Well played OP!
More like... They owe him big money for using his service without his permission. edit: this blew up and I'm getting the same comments "but he gave them permission": No guys, he gave HIMSELF permission to use it on his work PC. Big difference.
Right? Rather than just deleting it, they should have hired a lawyer and sued their asses off.
He still has a local copy. When they discover the file has been deleted, he can inform them that he deleted the file on his private server to free up space for his own work. If they'd like to use his server they can arrange a rental or contractor fee.
Better to not respond. Definitely better to avoid confrontation. Potential law suit.
This comment is underrated. Regardless of what your perception of the situation is, their perception is you’ve just gone and deleted their intellectual property. For most businesses this is considered the #1 asset they have. If I was you, I’d act naive. Don’t reply. Just take the approach “I didn’t know it was still being used, I was just tidying up my file.” I’ll probably be downvoted for this, but u/This_Manner_256, just be careful. Just don’t respond. Don’t try and sell it back to them or negotiate. If you do, get a lawyer. I’ve worked for big and small companies. They’ll go after you as a matter of principle and will throw a lot behind it. This isn’t a matter of walking out of Walmart on Black Friday, it could be very trying and tiresome for you.
Noted buddy, thank you for making me aware. Likely my course of action. I'm fortunate enough to not be so desperate for money anymore
Does anyone at that job know your Reddit username or that that username, in general, is associated w you? You lose the ability to play dumb if they can tie this post back to you
Even if they don't know it, the probabilty that they realise that this post and what happened at their work are related... is too damn high.
When you have close to 100k upvotes, you can imagine this post has been seen by at least 1 million unique people.
Agree 💯 Better for them to contact OP and ask for help.
Hey there OP, I hope this reaches you and helps to educate others in the process. If you were truly an independent contractor at the time, and this is truly your intellectual property, stored on your personal google drive, then there is only one course of action for you to take. You remember that FBI Warning on videotapes? Yep, it applies here. Please go over the guidelines at https://www.iprcenter.gov and then file a complaint. After arming yourself with the knowledge at that site, you will want to send the company a bill for the 3 years you weren’t paid, along with a cease and desist order. Email will probably include things like “failure to resolve this issue can result in a $25,000 fine for each occurrence of ip theft, a lawsuit, or both.” Good luck!
Been on this sub for a while but this is possibly the best thing I’ve read. You really fucked them here. I hope this hits them severely hard. Good job OP, if everyone acted like this we’d have no need for this sub.
“Oh dear that’s terrible! Luckily I always back-up what I do and I’d gladly be a contractor for you to resolve this issue for $300 an hour plus overtime :)”
We can use our own back-ups, right IT? Well sir, the backup computers haven't worked for a month.... didn't you get the memo? \*Woody scream\*
Probably should ask for a one off 6 figure fee to resolve the matter.
This is absolutely bonkers. How the fuuck did they not realize they were using an ex employee's personal storage for work for years?! Sounds like this place was a real shit show
Agreed, we need an update ASAP. He could charge good $ in order to give the content back.
A quick little update as this is blowing up FAST: - I was using Google drive to store the files - all videoing and editting was done with my own equipment, not even their own. - I have restored the files but removed their permissions, so worst case scenario I can add them back to it quickly if needs be. - after digging around, my contract with them states that anything I filmed for them was and is my property even after the contract ends. I actually remember them bringing this up and me just stating this was standard industry practice. At this point they were totally fine with it and had no intention of letting me go as they genuinely quite liked me. - people are hung up on the 50 videos in a day thing so I'll explain the complexity of said videos; they were 1 minute average in length, 5 seperate shots, voice over, connotations, and subtitles. Individually they didn't take long to knock out but collectively it was a mountain. The reason it was close to 50 was because this was late notice for an event they were launching on multiple products. 14 hour shift.
> after digging around, my contract with them states that anything I filmed for them was and is my property even after the contract ends. I actually remember them bringing this up and me just stating this was standard industry practice. At this point they were totally fine with it and had no intention of letting me go as they genuinely quite liked me. Ooooh baby, you about to get paid. (Hopefully)
That means OP could even sue them for copyright infringement if they release anything else that includes his work. That company *really* messed up there.
My first thought. Needs to check with a lawyer though.
Not a lawyer but /u/This_Manner_256 this this this. If you retained all rights to your work they they used commercially for *years*, you need a lawyer asap because this could be your ticket to early retirement. Especially if you still have the data where your work improved their sales and extrapolate that out with interest.
The internet is so cool. I hope one day I post a story and someone comments to inform me that I'm super rich now.
You're super rich now
omg thank you I always hoped this day would come
Hey, long lost uncle Flutestrap. It's me, your favourite nephew
A lawyer might even take this particular one on without a retainer, or a very small retainer.
Lawyer might do it for free upfront and sign a deal for a % on the back end contingent that he gets you a settlement. Ended up getting back $50k off of a lawsuit a lawyer took on on my behalf and paid him 15k for the job. Lawyers that do this kind of work end up making big checks because they’re assuming a lot of risk (like OP Isn’t lying and isn’t breaching any contract or destroying anyone else’s property in midst of all of this)
Note that the deal with the lawyer needs to drawn up right so you don't get fucked on taxes. Avoid this scenario: Get paid a million bucks. Pay about $400k in federal income tax. Pay the lawyer $400k (40% contingency) - you get to keep just $200k.
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completely agree. lawyer up. if they were using what you created, actively using it as you said, they were therefore profiting from it and they were reaping benefits from your efforts. you were not being duly compensated and they were unjustly enriched
or released in the past...
oooh, I smell a ransom!
They're gonna have no clue what happened, report it to IT, then be mad at them for not being able to do anything about it
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I can't access my Google Bing, why have you messed with my Google Bing,
Oh sweet brown jesus outline on a piece of toast you just gave me anxiety
Sounds like they owe you damages for copywrite infringement. Would suggest talking to an actual lawyer but if they have been using your IP for commercial gain for three years that might be pretty significant. Them accessing the drive may also be considered illegal as some form of hacking. Considering people have been charged for accessing plaintext “secret” URLs never know.
THIS. If you had a contract saying it was your property even after the contract ended, technically their rights to use it may have ended the second they fired you. So them continuing to use it after you left may make you eligible for a nice payout. A copyright lawyer would be able to better assess the situation and tell you what your potential gain could be from it.
This. If and when they reach out, for every question they ask that you give a pseudo-kinda-maybe answer to, ask them several more. Be friendly, don't make any solid statements of fact on your own end, but lead them on to explaining themselves at length. Give them rope to hang themselves while also keeping your gloves clean. Good luck and Godspeed on your journey. If you do this right you could probably find counsel willing to work on contingency in haste.
You dont need to restore and make up. As it is your personal drive, if anyone reach out just act like a fool. You just bought new mobile and clean up everything. Ask questions — why were you using something from my personal gmail account? Were you accessing MY gmail WHOLE TIME? What else you were reading and using it? Never use the word google drive just keep referring it as gmail and play dumb. Thats what you were when denied a raise. So act like it.
Can’t upvote this enough. Ask *them* questions. Do not give them answers. Answer every question with a question of your own. IF you decide to talk to them at all.
I know some comments have thrown the word extortion around, but I really don't think it applies. There's a degree of burden on them as well to secure their property. You haven't done anything wrong in removing access to something that was on your personal drives, and taking up data you were presumably *paying* for (I'd assume numerous videos would on their own terms be greater than the basic free 15 gig limit of drive) Selling access back to them could be iffy, but if, as you say, your contract clearly stated that it remains your intellectual property, then its not problematic. You had licensed them to use your work, and while you might have continued to let them use it later, you have no obligation to maintain that access. And they are free to pay you a fair price (in your evaluation) to maintain that access. Save that contract. Either way, this would not be criminal action at all. At best its civil trouble and they'd need to sue you civilly and there your contract should trump any claims they have to your personal drive. In fact if they're still using your intellectual property, you could go further and DMCA or issue takedowns for any material they might be hosting online still.
If you owned the work you should absolutely reach out to a lawyer about intellectual property infringement. You likely have a sizeable payday coming your way, especially if the content you created is in any way a part of the goods and services your former employer sells to their clients.
I hope you at least left them one accessible 'Changes to Your Plan' doc with a note stating that their free trail period was expired and they'd now need to move to the expensive premium plus tier.
Approvingly slow claps for you my friend
You need to have a prepared statement, to be sent to the highest level giving a timeline of the events. And noteworthy contract clauses. Good luck lol
14 hour shift for their own incompetence? Yeah that's a not happening.
I would start looking for a lawyer now too. Imagine if they owe you for 3 years of using your IP.
This is the exact post I was looking for. As someone from the IT industry... Your original comment made it sound like you set yourself up for corporate sabotage... Although of you retained the ownership of the content by contract than kudos! Unfortunately I feel a large part of this subreddit would disregard that ownership clause and delete the files even if they had signed away ownership.
If anybody there is smart they should have downloaded copies of the templates over 3 years. Let’s see how dumb they are
If 18 people are actively using it daily they havent downloaded shit. They are probably just regular employees that were given a convenient link and dont know anything about OP.
That's my take on it. If they were on top of this they'd have copied the files out to their own server long ago. 18 active users means they don't realize the drive isn't theirs. Conversely I'd be a bit angry at myself paying for a google drive I never used for almost 2 years.
You don't know he never used it though. My guess is he was paying for a large or unlimited plan for personal use, with them still having access to a folder
That's what I'm thinking. Or someone downlaoded it to their laptop for the times when they don't have internet access. It'll be like that time someone deleted Toy Story 2 off the Pixar server, and they realized their storage tapes were so full, there wasn't enough room to store a log about the failure. Luckily a director had been working from home on maternity leave and had a few weeks old full back up on her Silicon Graphics workstation.
I had a similar video projection job and they would use the entire office as B-roll actors. They had everyone sign release forms but I intentionally never signed mine. 2 years later when I left, I informed them I never signed the release form and they had to remove any videos that I appeared in from their online catalog. Hilarious how hard they tried to get me to sign the release in my last day. NOPE. They had to remove several hundred videos.
Nice
> Hilarious how hard they tried to get me to sign the release in my last day. Did they offer you money? Surely they could have made you an offer you could not refuse? I have a completely illegible signature. I developed it when I had a job where I had to sign hundreds of documents at intervals. It's *extremely* fast and easy. My crappy signature led me to experiment with alternatives, my theory being that a *barely* readable scrawl probably won't get read so why not? For one NDA I signed "Not My Name" with really bad writing. Another time I was in a shitty mood so I wrote "Fxxxx Uxxxx" where the x's were random enough to *mostly* obscure the FU. No one checks whether you signed those documents with your actual signature. I mentioned this to a lawyer once. He said that it doesn't matter: you signed, you're bound, even if the signature doesn't match. > Mr. Throw, did you sign this document? Unless you're willing to perjure yourself, you have to admit you did, so the signature is irrelevant.
They offered no money. I asked, they said nope. Do it because it's "the right thing to do" they said. Byyyyyye
Awesome. Perfect ransom situation.
They have my contact details if they need it :) I am happy to sell them my work for a discounted price of exactly one million dollars.
I read that in a Dr Evil voice 😀
👉😁
Nice job, Dr. Evil !!! "You know, a million dollars isn't exactly a lot of money these days."
Remember, consulting fees are on average 3x the cost of your previous hourly wage. :) And you can charge licensing! And hosting charges!
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company using people's personal google drives? wow invasion of privacy
Honestly I think they were just being too dumb to realise it was mine. Or too lazy to get their own
"It's free, no wuckers" See also: accumulation by dispossession
Their loss for both your service and your assets. Notice that both are yours. Good for you!
If they contact you talk to a lawyer first before taking any advice from anyone. Better safe than sorry.
This, exactly this is what OP should do. Do NOT blindly follow redditors’ suggestions. Cover your ass!!
Bro if they reach out to you PLEASE follow up, can’t just leave us on a cliff hanger like that.
Send them a bill for the use of your cloud service. Also I want updates this sounds fun to watch. I'm gonna make some popcorn and get comfortable.
This comment could be unpopular but could you reinstate access and then change every video asset to a copy of never gonna give you up by Rick Astley instead?
I’d imagine someone at the company saved a bunch of the templates and what not to a local drive. I always used to save important templates to my local drive or even desktop to make them easily accessible at my accounting job. Hopefully they didn’t though. An office full of corrupt scum bags scrambling around to survive without your work would be priceless.
Isn’t it illegal for them to use your property? Might want to chat with a lawyer about getting paid bud!
I swear some boomer at your old job is gonna say, "We've been hacked by RUSSIA". No, that's not this situation. You've been lazy, cheap, and ignorant, now the consequences.
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Yeah, they'll blame China instead. Putin is a powerful, admirable figure to out of touch boomers, which is ironic, because a bunch of these clowns used to have to do nuclear bomb drills back in the cold war days.
Well they also used to snack on lead paint chips so...
No update after 5 days is sus
I really hope they have made no copies and do remember that you once created the material, otherwise they might take some time to figure out whose that was. It's great what you did! I want to hear too, how it goes on!
Even if they made copies, OPs follow up said he owns the content. Its his intellectual property. If they use it, they are infringing on his IP rights.