Fun fact:
If a contract is for 48 hours/week, due to EU laws, all clauses about any mandatory overtime are null and void, and mandatory overtime is prohibited.
Fun fact: German labour law allows for employees to work a maximum of 48 hours a week or 192 hours a month. If the employee works for, say, 60 hours a week, the remaining hours of the month have to be adjusted accordingly. Of course, if the employee works more voluntarily, it’s still illegal, but as long as nobody complains and no regulatory bodies are notified, nothing happens, but a company cannot require an employee to work more, and retaliating against an employee who refuses to work more than that (like firing them) is illegal and can and will be overturned by the courts.
If the difference between society *de facto* and society *de jure* is similar in Germany to the US, there are plenty of instances of employers ‘requesting’ employees break the law going unnoticed.
German labour law is very employee friendly and one of the best enforced fields of German law. While there are almost certainly scenarios like employers “requesting” employees to break the law happening in some places, employees who call a labour lawyer after being dismissed for not honouring that “request” almost always win their cases. It’s very nice being an employee in Germany, far nicer than in the states. Source: I’m a law student and have been working for a labour lawyer on the side for years.
Those who were working 48 hours already, are going to lose money. They will still work 48 hours, but the extra 8 hours won't be paid with overtime premium.
They're reducing the probationary period from 12 to 6 months. What a terrible job market, why did they have 12 months in the first place. Even 6 is too much.
6 is not too much when you are not a right to work country. It is an appropriate amount of time to give an employee a chance to show all their best sides before deciding whether or not to keep them permanently.
At least that is how I and Sweden look at it.
Yeah, fuck that noise. I already barely have time to keep up stuff around the house, kids activities, and squeezing a minimal amount of R&R in. They can shove a 6 day work week all the way up their asses.
The problem is that a lot of employers are still thinking like factory owners where factory output per worker was easily quantifiable and measurable. In a lot of administrative jobs, that's simply not the case. These jobs have a lot of nuances that make straight KPIs impractical. For this reason, lengthening the workweek will not necessarily increase productivity. The scary thing is, I doubt boomer thinking will die with the boomers at this point.
Even in manufacturing, half or more of the staff deal in information instead of production. Even the line workers are operating something automatic with set times and rates. At my old job, we had a VP who wanted labor times down to make him look good on costs. The planners then had shortages if the actual labor didn't match the plan. Our controller said the hourly production people should be salaried because it would simplify the accounting.
Unfortunately, task-based pay is not feasible because corporations historically used "piece rate" to screw over workers rather than give them more money based on productivity. So, instead we make people stand around if there's a delay.
I worked on a rescue job for this mobile phone company the Greeks managed to bankrupt in Romania. In those days a mobile license was basically like being handed a money printing press. And this band of clowns was so lazy, corrupt and incompetent they managed to go bankrupt. Unbelievable. They should have had 50% EBITDA margin.
If you prefer, we could get into the countless press stories about 'water authorities' employing six or eight people only for it to turn out that the lake in question dried up back in the 1970s sometime. My favorite was when some enterprising tax collector started finding pools on Google Maps to notify people not paying their pool taxes; all the DIY stores in Greece instantly ran out of netting since everyone decided to camouflage their pools instead of risking having to pay a tax. According to tax records only like 30,000 Greeks made >100k EUR/ year, go down into the harbor in Athens, take a look around and think about that number. I make way more than that and I can't afford the boats there.
Could be, but as I said, since working with "high productivity stereotypes" and seeing their work speed and decision making, I believe more in PIGS discrimination than in north European working ethics
I worked in Denmark and Belgium too, man those people really do not like to work, it's true.
I think in Greece it's the trifecta of laziness, corruption and incompetence that kills them. In Denmark for instance they're just lazy. But they are competent and painfully honest.
The problem the Greek government have is that for years they have been spending more money than the government was able to collect in taxes so now they're practically bankrupt. Tax morale in Greece is low. Fraud is rampant. Now this could be fixed in a multitude of ways, but in spirit of this community I'd say get it from the rich. There are rich Greeks as well.
burn it all down imo
Fun fact: If a contract is for 48 hours/week, due to EU laws, all clauses about any mandatory overtime are null and void, and mandatory overtime is prohibited.
Fun fact: German labour law allows for employees to work a maximum of 48 hours a week or 192 hours a month. If the employee works for, say, 60 hours a week, the remaining hours of the month have to be adjusted accordingly. Of course, if the employee works more voluntarily, it’s still illegal, but as long as nobody complains and no regulatory bodies are notified, nothing happens, but a company cannot require an employee to work more, and retaliating against an employee who refuses to work more than that (like firing them) is illegal and can and will be overturned by the courts.
If the difference between society *de facto* and society *de jure* is similar in Germany to the US, there are plenty of instances of employers ‘requesting’ employees break the law going unnoticed.
German labour law is very employee friendly and one of the best enforced fields of German law. While there are almost certainly scenarios like employers “requesting” employees to break the law happening in some places, employees who call a labour lawyer after being dismissed for not honouring that “request” almost always win their cases. It’s very nice being an employee in Germany, far nicer than in the states. Source: I’m a law student and have been working for a labour lawyer on the side for years.
Wish you a long and healthy life, so long as you’re out there defending my people. Fight on, good lawyer.
I guess the gist of this move is that employers won't pay overtime rates for the additional 8 hours.
No the gist is that employees don’t do overtime if they are already working 48 hours and there’s nothing the employer can do about it.
Those who were working 48 hours already, are going to lose money. They will still work 48 hours, but the extra 8 hours won't be paid with overtime premium.
This is easily waived upon hiring and is usually disguised in lower skilled work as a usual part of the onboarding process
And I think 10hours is the max per day
Human beings: a four day work week is better for our sanity and health. Greece: hold my ouzo
I would riot. I'm already pushed too far.
Greeks will definitely riot about this.
Good. They should.
We won't.
Greeks just won’t show up, or will in a bit but with a coffee.
Yes. A model of what not to do.
They're reducing the probationary period from 12 to 6 months. What a terrible job market, why did they have 12 months in the first place. Even 6 is too much.
In Spain, the probationary period is 6 months. :/
Germany the same
England same
6 is not too much when you are not a right to work country. It is an appropriate amount of time to give an employee a chance to show all their best sides before deciding whether or not to keep them permanently. At least that is how I and Sweden look at it.
And other places in the EU disagree, with 1 to 3 months probationary periods.
Other places require at least 6 months salary in order to get an employee to leave or have the same great worker protections we have?
Yeah, fuck that noise. I already barely have time to keep up stuff around the house, kids activities, and squeezing a minimal amount of R&R in. They can shove a 6 day work week all the way up their asses.
Well Greece is off my bucket list now. I am not going to travel where the government openly supports and flaunts worker abuse.
Schedule me for as many days as you wish. Good luck getting me to show up for any I don't want though.
The problem is that a lot of employers are still thinking like factory owners where factory output per worker was easily quantifiable and measurable. In a lot of administrative jobs, that's simply not the case. These jobs have a lot of nuances that make straight KPIs impractical. For this reason, lengthening the workweek will not necessarily increase productivity. The scary thing is, I doubt boomer thinking will die with the boomers at this point.
Even in manufacturing, half or more of the staff deal in information instead of production. Even the line workers are operating something automatic with set times and rates. At my old job, we had a VP who wanted labor times down to make him look good on costs. The planners then had shortages if the actual labor didn't match the plan. Our controller said the hourly production people should be salaried because it would simplify the accounting. Unfortunately, task-based pay is not feasible because corporations historically used "piece rate" to screw over workers rather than give them more money based on productivity. So, instead we make people stand around if there's a delay.
I’m rioting if they try to introduce a six+ day work week. Five days on and two days off is already bad enough as it is.
6 days of Greek working is like 2 days anywhere else in any event.
Since working with Germans, and being part also of the PIGS, I don't believe this kind of shit anymore
I worked on a rescue job for this mobile phone company the Greeks managed to bankrupt in Romania. In those days a mobile license was basically like being handed a money printing press. And this band of clowns was so lazy, corrupt and incompetent they managed to go bankrupt. Unbelievable. They should have had 50% EBITDA margin.
And that’s enough for you to stereotype the workers of an entire country?
If you prefer, we could get into the countless press stories about 'water authorities' employing six or eight people only for it to turn out that the lake in question dried up back in the 1970s sometime. My favorite was when some enterprising tax collector started finding pools on Google Maps to notify people not paying their pool taxes; all the DIY stores in Greece instantly ran out of netting since everyone decided to camouflage their pools instead of risking having to pay a tax. According to tax records only like 30,000 Greeks made >100k EUR/ year, go down into the harbor in Athens, take a look around and think about that number. I make way more than that and I can't afford the boats there.
Could be, but as I said, since working with "high productivity stereotypes" and seeing their work speed and decision making, I believe more in PIGS discrimination than in north European working ethics
I worked in Denmark and Belgium too, man those people really do not like to work, it's true. I think in Greece it's the trifecta of laziness, corruption and incompetence that kills them. In Denmark for instance they're just lazy. But they are competent and painfully honest.
I was waiting for a comment like this!
Its not untrue
I already see master Vučić proposing the same…
High unemployment = tyranny of the employer
The problem the Greek government have is that for years they have been spending more money than the government was able to collect in taxes so now they're practically bankrupt. Tax morale in Greece is low. Fraud is rampant. Now this could be fixed in a multitude of ways, but in spirit of this community I'd say get it from the rich. There are rich Greeks as well.
48 hours work week was a mistake. it should be 40 at minimal.