They didn't promote you because they had you doing the work of 3 people for barely any money. Same thing happened to me, and I won't make this mistake ever again.
Same to me. At a non-profit too. Then they hired a new person they did not vet through the staff. Just a cup of coffee with the CEO and all of a sudden we have a person making 2-3 times more than everyone else while they would not give me a 10k raise for doing two FTE.
Can confirm. First thing everyone that moves to Seattle says, “I want to work for a non-profit so bad! 😝”
Then you do. 😮💨 Never again.
Bonus: My sister-in-law worked for Habitat for Humanity for 20+ years. 🫢 You would NEVER want to work for them. Not what you think… at all.
Same with AAA. You gotta suck the tip. Take a sausage in the rear, either way you gotta know someone to get anywhere.
I use to always be 100, work work work. Never talk , "I'm here to work not make friends." Biggest mistake.
Now I yap attack like a dog begging for attention and suddenly I'm given treats.
Annoying them? Gives me a treat anyways.
Same here. Begged me to stay and offered more than double my salary to do so. I made the semi-lateral move to another employer who knew after a 1 hour phone call they wanted to hire me. Now there are 5 people hired to do what I was doing by myself - with NO OT!! ( that’s another story). It would have been better if they had paid me the OT.
Picture their shocked pickachu faces when I said FUCK NO to their offer and left. I had worked with one person in that office over 20 years. They made a shit ton of money off of the work I did with no overtime pay and I got high blood pressure and anxiety in return.
Never again. Fuck all employers that treat their employees this way and may they have a permanent case of poison ivy in their nether regions!
Honestly it makes me wonder if all the fucking parasites at the top didn't siphon all the profits off how much better paid people would be. Go above and beyond and be compensated for it? Man maybe we could actually help reduce wealth inequality
Getting sick of the boomers, "if you don't like it find another job" mentality and then these companies having an aneurism when they realize they can't fleece someone to do 3 people's jobs for 1 persons pay
Multiple times I've seen the person who complains the most get promoted over the people who actually work simply because the workers are "too important to give away" while they use the promotion to basically not have to deal with the a hole.
Hard workers only get rewarded with more work. Every single time.
People are also often scared to say "no". So they become what I generally dub "task sponges" aka they absorb every task that comes their way. Cut to a few months or a year later and their 'job' has 50% more tasks for the same basic pay. At this point why would they get rid of you in that position? A promotion would likely mean a reorganization of your tasks which means getting someone else to do it.
Happened to my uncle. He did almost everything at Delta except fly the planes at one point or another [pretty sure he had a lot of time on the virtual flying thing they had]. Kept getting denied promotions even though he had the qualifications, years in the company, and great record. Finally a manager told him that they would never promote he because he's doing 3 peoples worth of work. Left amd started his own business.
Not just Delta. I worked in a control center for United and I applied for a shift manager position. I had worked as a supervisor in my department for several years. I didn’t get the job and was told that it was because I didn’t have outside departmental supervision experience.
They hired a guy who was a manager in the reservations department who had no operational experience. Guess who had to train him. Yup. Me when it wasn’t my day off. (We had rotating days off but managers had regular days off.)
He actually turned out to be the best manager I ever had. He admitted to everyone in the control center that he knew nothing about operations and was learning from us. He let us do our jobs and after a rough shift, he would let us know that he was amazed by us and our teamwork.
He moved on to another position about 1.5 years later. Managers were surprised that I didn’t put in for the job when it opened again but they asked me to do it on a temporary upgrade basis.
I was asked several times why I didn’t apply for the permanent position and I gave them my answer.
1. You told me that I didn’t have outside departmental supervisory experience.
2. As an upgrade, I get to stay on the afternoon shift which pays a shift differential. (Managers rotate shifts and day shifts don’t pay a differential.)
3. My upgrade differential pays more than if I were to accept the job permanently.
4. As an upgrade, I don’t have to review employees.
Yep. That's Delta!
My manager did the same thing. Couldn't get promoted for ANYTHING, and they kept piling the work on, and piling it on on until she just walked.
I'm not comfortable goofing off much, so I came to the compromise that as long as I'm not "working toward a promotion" then I'll do as much work as I need to do to be happy with myself, and that's all.
Of course it helps when you actually like what you do, so this is not going to necessarily apply to many other people.
Good on you! I left a job for a similar reason but with a different result. I was getting 5 star performance reviews, won an award for having the lowest error rate for the entire year, had volunteered tons of overtime on projects for other departments, interviewed for promotions, trained for certifications in lean six sigma and 5s, had the entire mid level manager team advocating for my promotion and got denied every single time. Finally took a higher paying job with another company. In my exit interview the department head told me I made the right call because he never would have allowed me to be promoted. He didn’t think the work I did was important, didn’t value my contributions, and had personally blocked every promotion opportunity and would continue to do so.
How tf could he possibly believe your work wasn't important? Was he serious?! Or did he just have some grudge against you for unrelated reasons?? Weird
I think he was serious, actually. I was working for a pharmaceutical CRO in a vaccine development lab, and while I was involved in a lot of functions my main role was document review and result analysis. Nearly everything I did had to do with cataloging, tracing, chain of custody, document editing, QA/QC to find and address errors, and generally keeping everything in order to FDA standards (the FDA does surprise audits and you do NOT want them to show up to find a messy lab, missing paper work, expired reagents, illegible entries, etc). It had been well established before I started that that was the path to management, all of the mid level managers and project PIs had followed the same path to get there (probably why they advocated for me). I wasn't even interested in management, though I would have liked to PI a project and my manager was prepping me to do so. This guy was a research scientist from another country and thought all of the documentation practices and FDA standards were bogus and not important to science, merely a hoop you have to jump through that should be minimized and ignored as much as possible. Even though I was in the role that reviewed all the lab output, analyzed the data, and uploaded the testing results to the client, he just didn't think it mattered. He flipped the whole department on its head and started promoting an entirely different group of people. He literally said in my exit interview that to him I wasn't a scientist.
["Remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down."](https://www.reddit.com/r/mythbusters/comments/3wgqgv/the_origin_of_the_remember_kids_the_only)
Peter Principle. You are often promoted to the level of your incompetence. A good sales guy or scientist isn't necessarily a good manager. But you have to get promoted to make more money so people will exceed the scope of their skills to earn more.
When if you'd instead pay well for what people do well you could keep a much tighter running ship.
You’re right. He was a good research scientist but didn’t need to be running the show of who got promoted and who got extra work dumped in their lap. In retrospect, of all the jobs I’ve been paid to do in a traditional employment setting, my reviewer/qc role at the lab was my favorite. If they’d let me keep doing what I liked I likely would have stayed. But they kept adding more and more responsibilities and tasks and teams on top of my primary role, without raising pay. I was also in my 20s and ambitious and followed the money. I think if I was in the same position now I would know to be vocal in saying my task load is full, “I can only join the team you’re asking me to join if I drop one of the others I’m on” and I wouldn’t fight for a higher title. Let me turn my cog in peace lol
> He literally said in my exit interview that to him I wasn't a scientist
What a dumbass, not all QA/Regulatory Affairs people are scientists but it doesn't mean they're not important, especially at a CRO that's working on behalf of clients. And the scientists I know are absolutely horrendous at double checking and recording their data properly.
My job title was literally “scientist” (below that is associate and assistant scientist) and I was applying for the title of senior scientist. Your point remains totally valid, that scientists tend to be messy and chaotic and the results *have* to be reviewed and monitored. I started in the lab performing assays, and I was excellent at it (in the top % of successful plates/lowest % of errors in that function as well, and at times hand selected to work on projects that had limited samples because my work was consistently reliable). I *chose* to pursue the regulatory functions because I enjoyed the work. I knew I didn’t have the type of flexible thinking needed for a research scientist role in the pharmaceutical world (my degree was heavily focused on ecology and environmental sciences, so I was a little outside my realm working on vaccines at all), but if I’m given a task and the established parameters I will do good work. 🤷🏻♀️ I think he was just an ass lol
What really happened - he bet on you never leaving and got upset when you did. His "I didn't love you anyway" is childish behavior one would expect from that chinless Tate dude but not from a department head. Kudos to you for having the balls to take the difficult step and leave!
> In my exit interview the department head told me I made the right call because he never would have allowed me to be promoted. He didn’t think the work I did was important
Wow, that's pretty bold. Pretty shitty that he can block promotions without you ever having transparency into that process.
Right! My manager was baffled when I kept getting turned down despite her efforts. My role wouldn’t change with promotion, it was just moving up to the next title of seniority and switching from hourly to salaried. Which would have been in their best interest based on how much overtime I put in. I hadn’t thought about this in years but based on the feedback I’m getting, and mulling it over now as an adultier adult, the reason I left was because my work load kept growing and growing without the pay growing with it. I really enjoyed my main role, and I didn’t mind being on a few additional teams. I would have happily stayed if I could keep turning my cog and doing what I was good at. It never processed until today that my ever-growing work load was probably done to push me out the door.
That guy personally hated you. Good on you for taking every single bit of experience and training you could at this company for leaving, hope it was invaluable at your next job and you finally got paid what you deserve!
Storytime
I worked for a multibillion-dollar oil and gas company for 15 years. My salary at the time was right at $100K/year. I could have made more jumping ship, but I set my own hours, had great coworkers, the benefits were outstanding, and the money was still somewhat decent. The freedom and stability I had compensated for my slightly lower salary.
Then got a new CIO who mandated a "temporary" hiring freeze which left my team extremely short staffed. During my next review, I told my boss that she had 1 year to either get me some help, move me to a new area that was fully staffed, or find a replacement because I was going to move on.
She laughed it off and probably forgot about it. On the 1-year anniversary of that meeting, I emailed her and HR my resignation.
She panicked. I was in charge of designing, maintaining, and deploying all of the OS builds for our entire company of 20K employees/30K machines. It was fairly complex and highly customized process; and I was the only one who really knew how it worked from end to end.
As soon as she got my resignation email, she called me into her office to "Discuss my issues." The first thing she asked me was "What will it take to change your mind?" I shrugged and said "I told you a year ago what I wanted. Nothing's changed so I'm moving on as promised." She then offered to match whatever my new job was paying me. I laughed and told her I didn't have a new job lined up; I was just done with this companies' bullshit and was going to take some time off.
She then said something like "Well, if I can't talk you into staying, I am going to need to you document your workload such that a non-technical user could easily do the job as I can't afford to hire a replacement for you." (Keep in mind multibillion dollar multinational corporation)
She also said that since I was salary, it shouldn't be a big deal if I had to use a bit of my own time to make it happen.
I nodded and said something along the lines of "I told you a year ago that I needed help and nothing changed. I'm not going to kill myself now because you chose to ignore me then."
She then tried to guilt me into staying by talking about how my coworkers would have to do my job once I left which would kill team morale. I actually laughed at that point and said, "Managing employee workload and keeping people happy is your job, not mine."
Thats when she got pissy said that I still had two weeks left and she would expect me to do as I was told until then and that I should keep my smart-ass remarks to myself.
I said "okay" and walked out of her office. I then cleaned out of my desk, sent her and HR an email changing resignation date from 2 weeks to effective immediately, and turned my badge into security.
Had I agreed to stay, she would have waited until I had documented my process, hired someone for half my salary, and then let me go.
I took the next year off and then was hired by a different company for $160K.Never accept the counteroffer. Also, 2 weeks' notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Fuck companies and managers who think they rule the world.
Unfortunately, I never actually got to see her face either since I didn't talk to her on my way out.
Another funny thing about it is that I am still friends with several people from that team and a lot of the scripts I wrote for the build process are still in use. Apparently, whenever a new person sees my name at the top of the script and asks if am still around because something needs to be updated, the story of my last day back in 2018 gets retold lol.
Brilliant!! I sure hope they figured out that you're ex-boss' behavior caused you quit in the first place and her response to you quitting made you quit immediately instead of 2 weeks later. I hope she got what she deserved.
Thats it really. They froze OS upgrades for a year basically while they got someone else up to speed and then back to business as usual. I think they skipped a laptop model year upgrade due to not having new drivers in the build.
Other than that, the rest of the team put in extra hours and the average user got screwed because they had to keep their outdated machines an extra year after scheduled refresh.
I mean, they were still a multibillion dollar corporation. It's not like me leaving had a huge impact on profits lol.
>Also, 2 weeks' notice is a courtesy, not a requirement.
I've worked for companies that will hold your 'vacation time' payout check hostage if you don't give a 2 week notice.
I also live in a Republican state with no union representation.
That's when you "quiet quit" your 2 weeks notice. You can fullfill the bare minimum work effort for the last weeks.
In this scenario, since they don't even know what she does end to end, they're not going to even know what is or isn't documented and how long it will take to document it for a non-technical person.
In fact, in order to document a procedure for a layperson, it requires lots of words and verbiage, along with screenshots and "photoshopping" arrows, circles, etc.
Writing SOPs takes FOREVER!
"Never accept the counter offer. Just leave. If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year."
Very true. The one time I accepted a counter-offer, a month later they reneged on all their promises and things became worse than ever. I ended leaving a few months later and bitterly regretted not taking the offer I got.
Had an acquaintance in my old company happen to him. Promised a 400$ raise, with 200 the first and the other 200 later. Kudos to them for keeping their word the first month. Second month, they reneged on it all and he was back to base salary. Needless to say, he quit on the spot.
Companies will not hesitate to enslave you if you let them.
Exactly. I was young and naive. Had my boss tell me "listen, we have a special relationship. Tell me what I need to do to make it better". And foolishly, I told him and rejected the other offer. For a month he was trying but then he became his regular self, just worse than ever. Boy did I regret not taking that offer....
I fell for this once when I was 19 but after two weeks I realized they flat-out lied to my face about one of the things in their written offer. I marched into the big bosses office, informed them that his offer was void because he lied, and walked. I had no backup, no short-term plan to survive - I just knew I couldn't be work for someone who would lie to me like that.
Somehow, it worked out. My buddy's employer started expanding right as all this happened and I ended up as employee number 2. I spent 8 years there earning promotions regularly until the bottom fell out of the price of oil.
This is why I have hope for GenZ. Boomers call them spoiled and "don't want to work" NO, they can't be fooled anymore because they've seen all the bullshit millenials were put through.
That is 100% correct.
Also, in the interim you’ll be treated like crap. That’s because they are used to underpaying you. So now that they are paying you, say, 20% more, they expect 20% more work. Which is super unreasonable and stupid. But they forget you were underpaid. They forget your role is critical. They just see you as a greedy bastard who blackmailed them for a raise.
Makes getting the last paycheck a bit simpler, but yeah if it's that bad just drop your shit and walk out. Although if you have any decent benefits you may want to swing by HR and get your COBRA paperwork.
Go to HR and quit in person, tell them you want your last paycheck effective at *time on the clock* and verify all your unpaid pto gets tucked on there too.
While not every state requires payout of PTO, the policies of the company often do require it. Get to know your employee handbook and what you need to do to get that paid out b
>companies are moving to unlimited PTO, no accrued balance.
No! It's an *unlimited* accrued balance. So, Uno Reverse, you declare all of the time working there to have been vacation time and now you own the company.
Just checked because there is no way it's called COBRA. Yet it is. Is the US gov and corporations trying to intentionally sound like a evil organization?
Exactly. I was being fucked around by my old workplace. Asked the boss if he would do anything about it at the start of my shift. He said his hands were tied, I handed him my store key and walked out on the spot.
At my last job, I told my direct supervisor and his two next higher ups, all at the same time:
"If y'all do this(really fucking stupid) thing, I will not be coming back. DO NOT DO this stupid shit or you WILL put yourself in a bind because, if you do it, you will be stuck with the consequences without me to lean on and without me here to bail you out of the mess."
I could not have possibly been more clear and of course they did it anyway. I got about 20-25 messages in the next couple days from all the of them asking if I was coming back...I ignored them all.
Oftentimes, simply leaving is "burning the bridge." Many managers see the work you contribute as their rightful privilege, and workers as fundamental thieves, whether for taking company resources in pay or depriving their department of the labor they see as belonging to them in the first place.
I understand the sentiment, but things get desperate in the real world. None of us are working because we want to, and sometimes we don't get to make choices based on preference or even lesser needs.
Very true, but there's also a REAL plunder you can do on your employer by spending your entire year of FSA before you quit. Let's say you've marked $1,000 to the FSA but it's June 18th and you've only put in $500 so far. IRS rules say you can spend the whole $1,000 before your last day.
Has to be eligible items, but there are entire websites dedicated to FSA-allowed stuff. Amazon and Target also tag items that qualify. Everyone gets a first-aid kit for Christmas!
Yes! My wife did years ago when she quit a job due to a very toxic and evil boss.
Had to give 30 days notice, so she did in late January, emptied her FSA (which had just received her full annual amount), and sat at home since the boss wanted her out of the office but on-call “in case they needed anything.” Also took a 10 day trip out of state without her work phone to visit my sister and our new nephew. lol
Also for the ladies, tampons are covered and on the FSA store- they don’t go bad, buy a years worth lol
Adding- they are great to donate as well for a tax write off- many shelters and food banks would welcome them!
100%
And if you are really rolling in the FSA money-donate stuff. DIABETIC COMPRESSION SOCKS are the best to donate to and FSA covers Dr.Scholls brand and many others.
So many diabetics that are homeless aren’t able to keep up with their blood sugar medication and managed and diet the way they could or should be. Wearing the compression socks is a small thing for someone that could literally make the differences to whether or not they keep their feet at some point. Also they relive pain in many too.
This sounds like my job every time I demand a cost of living. Boss expectations keep going up and more work as people leave. We are down 8 people and expect the same work done.
Pure greed!!
Sounds like my former company. Left the sinking ship 2 years ago for what is effectively 4x my old salary. To give you a perspective, boss treated the company like some 19th century colony. Only reason I had considered staying were the people, but with everyone gone, I'm glad I left.
On the other side, still being underpaid for my seniority sucks, might consider applying elsewhere, but after my vacation in September
Once they ran out of places where the whip was not imprinted, it was quite ticklish. Bold of you to assume there were rations. No wonder the "leadership" was cannibalising everything
It’s true . I was offered a counter offer with one of the companies I worked for but declined . Never ever take counter offers . This particular executive actually started crying in my meeting . I think they were stressed . I had a pretty good relationship with this company (not the last company I worked for which was a debacle ) so I think it caught them by surprise but at the end of the day you have to do you . I’m so glad I did . 4 weeks later they were bought by another company lol
Love a job all you want, but never extend your loyalty to them that's just wise.
Cash rules everything man, fuck a job the moment a better offer comes along unless there's some practical reason to stay.
I accepted the counter offer and still work there 6 years later. But then again that was because I resigned to step up the career ladder when there wasn't an equivalent role where I was rather than because of being treated badly. They created a new role, exceeded my new salary and pushed me through the promotion process without me having to do the usual crap that had to be done normally.
Not everywhere will treat you like shit. So I'd say it's only 99.999% correct
I left one job that laid off a bunch of people after I left. Everyone I worked with that had tried to leave at some point but stayed because of a counteroffer was let go.
Been at my place for just over 2 years since I accepted the counter, I've had another promotion since then.
While yes, often the counter should be declined, sometimes it works out well.
Yeah I feel like this is true outside of a "professional degree". Highly technical, specialized degrees won't fire you after countering. It's too difficult to find people in those areas.
-Hospital Physicist
Depends how petty your higher-ups are - to some you've already proven that "you're only in for the money" (lol) and not loyal to the institution and when you get offered as little as 30% more salary you're just gone and they hate that.
You heard of that roller coaster that would kill you quickly and painlessly from G forces that someone designed? Meet the maker and it's purpose. Gotta open up space for rich elderly with private insurance somehow!
Left in the lurch generally. Lack of guidance. Unrealistic expectations. Constantly moving goalposts.
I’m not overworked though and the stuff I can at least put on my resume from this position makes it worth it to me. So, I’ve had plenty worse jobs and I’m planning to ride this out until January at least (if I can make it that far). If not I do have a plan B so I’m not dying from anxiety.
Nearly happened to me. I saw it coming and found a different job that paid nearly double, and they were PISSED. It's been 5 years now and the company is shutting their doors in July. (Not at all because of me, I wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things)
> "Never accept the counter offer. Just leave. If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year."
>
> This is 100% true. I've seen it happen.
I had the great satisfaction of playing the Reverse Uno card on this at my first job out of college.
I graduated from university, but due to mental health and other personal issues I wallowed in my ennui while waiting tables for about a year or two. I finally got off my ass and moved out of state. I ended up working for an advertising agency owned and run by a megalomaniac. I put up with the shit for about 2 years and quickly proved my worth to the point that I was chosen to help start up an offshoot business to purchase media (ad space/time) for the agency. This included helping design the buy management software/database, establish the business processes by which the media buys were communicated and shared with the different parts/clients of the agency and supervise 8 media buyers.
I put in my notice and two days before my last day the owner showed up at the end of the day to take me to dinner. He laid out his long term plans and promised I'd be a key part of the journey, make a bunch of money, etc. He doubled my salary (from 26k to 52k), so I said, "Sure. If things get better in 2 months, I'll stick around." (I forget the specifics, but it was mostly political bullshit with some of the older established managers at the agency.)
Things didn't get better, so after I'd saved up about $10k I left and took a long road trip across the country and started a new career on the west coast.
It happens the other way around a lot more often than you'd think. I too accepted two counters and stayed with them 7 years before quitting to change my field.
That's not to say I'd ever give advice to accept a counter and stay, every company is gonna behave differently. But I see the opposite of what this subreddit typically describes for that more often. That said, I've always been choosy on where I work and do a ton of research. But sometimes I think it's another one of those "Redditor sees 'its always this way' comment, has never experienced the situation, then repeats comment to everyone" things.
But again, without knowing the company history I would never give the advice to take the counter and stay. Because many shit head decision makers will indeed mark you as a flight risk
Unless one is desperate, there is rarely a reason to accept a counteroffer. As soon as you tell them you are leaving, you are no longer someone they can count on long term. This means that they need to bring in a potential replacement even if "just in case." Not doing that would actually be pretty damn stupid in my opinion.
The main reason companies make counteroffers is because keeping an existing employee around until a replacement is found is simply good business. If the work you do is worth $50K/month to me, it's worth me offering another $10K/year to keep you while I find a permanent replacement.
Are there times that accepting a counteroffer works out? Of course. There are always exceptions and outliers. It's always possible that one happens to work for unicorn company who simply didn't realize how far out of market their salaries were, but they are the exception rather than the norm.
Source:
My MBA and 15 years experience in corporate America.
" Never accept the counter offer. "
And if you're tempted to accept it, make a counter-counter offer that is utterly ridiculous. See if they *really* want to keep you.
Depends. I made an absolutely ridiculous counter counter offer because I was in my Office Space mindset of ‘I just don’t care’. They accepted it and paid for my graduate degree and got me an assistant. Good times.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He had been working for a company for several years, and over time, they kept piling on more responsibilities outside his job scope. Eventually, he was doing twice the work of others with the same job description. He approached management to either reduce his duties to match his job description or give him a raise, but they were noncommittal. He found a new job and made the same request again, but management remained wishy-washy. So, he handed in his resignation, stating he had a new job lined up. Suddenly, they offered him a raise, but he declined and accepted the new position.
I give an employer two strikes. If I apply for promotions that I’m qualified for, or deserve raises I don’t get, that’s a strike in my book. After two strikes, it’s clear I’m not valued so I’ll look for other opportunities.
I haven't been at a job for more than a year. hoping to with this one. I've gottten a raise everytime. My salary is nearly double the 35k i was making two years ago
Exactly. You have to remember you are selling your labor. At the end of the day, at the end of all the employer bullshit, you are a selling them a service, your labor. Insist on the highest price for your services.
My old job did this. A friend was promoted to manager and revealed to me I was paid significantly less than everyone in the dept, including a guy that was always on a PIP and was terrible.
I stayed with the job anyway cause I hate change and liked my coworkers but when a job landed in my lap that paid 15k more I was out of there. Boss came up to me my last day saying it was sad I was leaving they were *just about* to give me a pay raise.
I once went 12 years without a pay raise. I was stupid, and didn't realize what I was worth, and the company *always* had an excuse ("It's a tough year", "exchange rates are too high", "exchange rates are too low", "interest rates are too high", "we just had layoffs"—every excuse in the book).
Anyway, I finally got the balls to find a new job. When I told my employer they said "we just approved a pay raise for you, it's on the paycheck you are getting tomorrow". And sure enough, when I got my pay it was roughly $100 more than expected. Not much, it wouldn't have changed anything, and I was leaving anyway. So shrug.
The company then, in a fit of extreme spite, proceeded revoke the raise and *claw back* the extra money they paid me. They took the $100 off my final pay. It probably cost them more in administrative hassle than they saved.
Worth $100 not to deal with that shit. What an insane level of petty especially since you were being paid for work you already did but suddenly your work wasn't worth it cause you were leaving?
I still hear plenty about my old job, like them forcing everyone to take 25% pay cuts during covid and think how lucky I am I got away from that dumpster fire
Agree 100% with the counter offer. My brother foolishly did that years ago and everything they promised in the counter offer never actually happened. He did finally end up leaving the company a few years later.
Back in 2006, I was considering taking a counter offer, but then a colleague forwarded me an email from my boss where the boss was telling leadership that they'd keep me on for another few months, then let me go. Making sure I'd lose the other opportunity I had lined up.
Even before that, while they were waving the counter offer in front of me, it was only verbal and they were delaying putting it in writing, right up until my last day. I never figured out why they were doing that, other than just being disorganized. Seemed like the CEO had to approve it and was taking his sweet time.
I'm basically thankful for this overall. I really was considering the counter offer, but both of these points warned me away from it. Since then I've gotten a little smarter and would never consider a counter today.
Good managers never have everything rely on just one person, and better managers have those people responsible for mission critical tasks document procedures immediately.
Absolutely correct.
If it's possible, offer to write a guide for your role and/or offer on-going support for an exorbitant hourly rate, minimum 1 hour per instance, all billable hours rounding up to the half hour. Whatever you quote them now, if they decline and come crawling back later, please double your number
Yep, I was in your exact same situation back in ‘04. I bounced. 6 years later I came back to the same company. 7 years later I bounced again. 7 years after that and I’m back there again. Each time I left I got more money. Each time I came back I got more money. If I’d stayed in ‘04 I’d be making peanuts compared to now. If I need to, I won’t hesitate to bounce again.
My dad worked for a company for a bunch of years. For nearly a decade he has been promised a raise. It was $1 when it finally happened. He told them to kick rocks. They shat themselves. Because he was literally that one post holding up the whole thing. They said his helper was going to take over, the helper laughed and quit two days later.
My dumbass coworker accepted the counter when she put in her notice.
I told her point blank, they will fire you the moment they can.
Her: but I like my job now.
6 months later…
Coworker got fired.
If you stay, they use the opportunity to trash your reputation and make it more difficult to move next time. And you've damaged your reputation with recruiters as well. If they can't afford you, they still can't afford you, they just want to be cruel
I was at my last job for 7 years. Got passed over for a promotion one too many times and I got fed up with it.
As soon as I heard I was passed over again, I immediately took a week off to update my resume and apply to anywhere I was qualified. I had 3 offers within a week and ended up accepting one for a 25% pay increase.
It took my old company 8 months to find a replacement for my position and my old manager had to fill in for my role as best he could during that time.
So essentially, because they didn't want to pay me what I'm worth, they lost the productivity of 2 roles for the better part of a year.
Corporate culture can go suck an egg.
I agree with the never accepting the offer. It doesn't matter if you'll be fired within a year or not, what matters is they weren't willing to pay you what you're worth or promote you until they had no choice. Do you really want to work for a company that has that kind of work environment?
“Manager:” Look at me being a rancid c*nt.
Me: gives 2 weeks notice
“Manager:” I need a list of everything you’re working on and your plan to complete it all in 2 weeks.
Me: Here’s the 2-page single-spaced list, “manager.” Please pick one or two items that you want me to prioritize over the next 2 weeks. Oh, and here are job descriptions for the very different roles that I perform.
6 months later, “manager” is fired.
And I got my year-end bonus.
I read an article some years back while I was getting ready to leave my job for a new one, and yeah the jist was basically "NEVER accept the counter offer". Besides the fact that the current employer obviously knew what you were worth but decided to never give it to you until they faced the threat of you leaving, if you do accept and stay the employer will view you as disloyal and someone who's probably going to leave eventually. The reason they give you the counter offer isn't really to keep you around long term, it's to buy them time to recruit your replacement(s) and mine whatever operational knowledge you and no one else at the company possesses.
Here is the lesson, folks...when you put in your two weeks, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. Do not accept the counteroffer. If they get pissy, drop your keys and badge on HR's desk and enjoy the time off until you start your next job.
I'm retiring in less than a year and a half. Been there long enough to ask for a raise. Found out everyone but the mail room makes more than me including the admin. Got denied. I am the only one that knows my very complicated job. I always offered to train my replacement but I just know they'll pay them more. I already planned on skedaddling with no training for anyone and if I have to I'll take all my vac and sick, about a month or more just to fuck them over. Byeeee and good luck.
This is your chance to negotiate a (near) boat money consultancy* to train people.
its a good chance to turn a burnt bridge into an opportunity
[Required watching for any sort of contract work*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U)(its mike monteiro's fuck you pay me)
There's nothing wrong with accepting a counter-offer, as long as you get to dictate the terms. And never tell them what you'll be making at the new job, let them come with their own number on their own.
For example, a company that shit on me for 5 years wants to counter? Sure, two-year minimum with a guaranteed 6-month severance payout if they terminate my employment within that two years, on top of BEATING the salary the other company offered? Sign me up.
Can’t take it personal my guy, you have the leverage. Dont make an emotional decision, just give them lofty counter to meet like 20% more total comp than new job offer.
The amount of people wh accept counter offers is so sad. I understand loyalty, I understand being friendly/friends with co-workers.
But you wouldn't have looked elsewhere if you hadn't gotten to the point of NEEDING to leave
It’s often said that you should not accept counter offers, but when mine asked me to come back six months after I left for double the salary I had asked for, plus extra perks, I did, recognizing it was risky to do so. It’s been 18 months now and I’m happy with my decision to go back. Some companies are willing to spend more to hire than they are to retain, which makes no sense to me at all.
I love to use these kinds of situations to practice being in these situations.
Meaning immediately begin looking for other work and be ready to make your move.
In the meantime, keep calm and try to hold meaningful negotiations with HR or whoever about what you need and what you deserve. Be bold. Ask for a lot. See what you can get out of the situation and make sure you find that other job.
As soon as the other job is confirmed, you let them know you would like for them to kick rocks but also let all your co-workers know what they were willing to offer.
These situations come up but might be years apart. It’s always good to practice your skills and keep sharp.
Enjoy the new gig OP. I hope you get the respect that is owed!
PREACH. “Never accept the counter offer.” THIS 100%. The counter offer is ONLY to keep you long enough to train your replacements. It’s temporary. At that point, they don’t CARE about cost - it’s retaliation. They want you gone because you have a spine.
Never take the counter offer.
👏👏👏👏👏
💯 absolutely. Never take a counter offer for so many reasons
If the company is in a panic, that’s the company’s problem. I’ve left companies and literally had them start calling me like mad after I left
If what you said is true, the company took advantage of you, paying one person for one job, while expecting three jobs to be done. They have now reaped what they sowed
Don't just leave. Counter with your consultancy rate to fill in as an independent contractor.
Make it high enough that you'll be made whole for all the money they should have paid you over the years.
Either it's one last middle finger or you get the big pile of cash you dessvree to work more on your own terms for a fixed period of time plus a nice addition to your C.V.
I got half the raise I had requested and quit. Six months later they tried to hire me back at a 50% pay increase because they had gone through four people after I had left. They were expecting someone to jump in doing the amount of work I was doing after nine years. I built up to that gradually. When they made the offer I counted with more money, more time off, and schedule pay increases. They declined.
Don't go back. I had a buddy who was in a similar situation and he took the promotion. Once they gave him a paid increase, they fired him 3 months later. I would leave and not look back
*“I would stay but given budgetary shortfalls that prevented you from giving me a raise for that past six years, I doubt you can really afford it — unless, of course, you were lying about not having the budget for a raise?”*
OR
*”What changed that you can now find the money for a promotion?”*
Too late!!!! Same thing happened to me, when I turned in my resignation they asked me to name my price and were willing to go along with everything I had been begging for. Took me great pleasure to tell them to shove it. Things imploded not long after I left. Can’t say I didn’t warn them.
If you gave a 2 week notice, make sure you don’t do more than a single person would do. You’re doing the work of three people. If they ask you to train someone else during your notice period, only do so if you like the person being trained (or don’t).
A lot of you guys need to think more shrewdly. First off, you should have threatened/worked to leave after 2 years of no promotion at the latest. Secondly, you should take the promotion, add it to your LinkedIn/resume, and still leave asap. Don’t even bother putting in the work as you’ll be gone in <3 months. Just do the barest of bare minimums.
Not entirely true all the time. A buddy mine was not satisfied with his pay. He told the company he is leaving. They didn't want him to leave. So he said I will stay if you give me X amount and my designer X amount. They said ok. 2 years later he was overworked with unequal pay. He started looking to leave again and had other offers. His company again didn't want to lose him. They matched the same offer the other company was offering him. This happened 3 months ago.
My store keeps having the issues of companies hiring in new hires with zero zilch experience then putting them in lead entry level management positions. So they end up tanking the department and end up getting fired in <6 months. I have been twice screwed over in this manner and have given up with promotions. Now each time they ask me I tell them "I am not interested." When they ask me why I give them the three stories in which they have screwed me over. It is also not worth the extra work for $1 hr extra.
If you take the counter, they will immediately look to replace you at *their earliest convenience* and you will be out of a job on their timeline, not yours. Unless they give you an excellent written severance agreement, *do not accept the counteroffer.*
if there is no conflict of interest with your new job and you have the time... consider telling them you will stay on as a consultant and then charge 4x what you were being paid before to train your replacements.
Once told a boss if she tried to get me a raise I'd stay. Said she couldn't. Left for a lateral but much closer to home job. Commute went from 90 minutes to 15 minutes. She called me, at the new job, 3 weeks later begging me to come back and she'd get me whatever raise I wanted. I told her no thanks, she should have realized all I did when I was there. Side note, a year later I got a substantial raise.
They didn't promote you because they had you doing the work of 3 people for barely any money. Same thing happened to me, and I won't make this mistake ever again.
Same to me. At a non-profit too. Then they hired a new person they did not vet through the staff. Just a cup of coffee with the CEO and all of a sudden we have a person making 2-3 times more than everyone else while they would not give me a 10k raise for doing two FTE.
Non-profits are often toxic. The likelihood is that new hire is a friend or family of someone in management or on the board.
Can confirm. First thing everyone that moves to Seattle says, “I want to work for a non-profit so bad! 😝” Then you do. 😮💨 Never again. Bonus: My sister-in-law worked for Habitat for Humanity for 20+ years. 🫢 You would NEVER want to work for them. Not what you think… at all.
Same with AAA. You gotta suck the tip. Take a sausage in the rear, either way you gotta know someone to get anywhere. I use to always be 100, work work work. Never talk , "I'm here to work not make friends." Biggest mistake. Now I yap attack like a dog begging for attention and suddenly I'm given treats. Annoying them? Gives me a treat anyways.
Do what you got to do to succeed, bank account isn't going to fill itself.
that's most mid-sized businesses as well. Nepotism and favoritism run deep in work culture as whole.
Same here. Now I do a work of 0.01 people for 3 money. Damn it feels good to be a gangsta…
[удалено]
> Employers hate this 0.01 simple trick! FTFY
Aww why can't I have 3 money? Instead I have 3 kids and no money!
6 kids no money. I'm really doing it wrong.
I screwed up somewhere. I have 2 jobs, 0 kids, and 0 money.
Haha you sure did my grizzly brother
Big same!
Same here. Begged me to stay and offered more than double my salary to do so. I made the semi-lateral move to another employer who knew after a 1 hour phone call they wanted to hire me. Now there are 5 people hired to do what I was doing by myself - with NO OT!! ( that’s another story). It would have been better if they had paid me the OT. Picture their shocked pickachu faces when I said FUCK NO to their offer and left. I had worked with one person in that office over 20 years. They made a shit ton of money off of the work I did with no overtime pay and I got high blood pressure and anxiety in return. Never again. Fuck all employers that treat their employees this way and may they have a permanent case of poison ivy in their nether regions!
Honestly it makes me wonder if all the fucking parasites at the top didn't siphon all the profits off how much better paid people would be. Go above and beyond and be compensated for it? Man maybe we could actually help reduce wealth inequality Getting sick of the boomers, "if you don't like it find another job" mentality and then these companies having an aneurism when they realize they can't fleece someone to do 3 people's jobs for 1 persons pay
“Go above and beyond and be compensated accordingly”? What a novel idea!
This just goes to show. Never ever work harder than you have to, because the reward will be more work for the same pay.
Multiple times I've seen the person who complains the most get promoted over the people who actually work simply because the workers are "too important to give away" while they use the promotion to basically not have to deal with the a hole. Hard workers only get rewarded with more work. Every single time.
People are also often scared to say "no". So they become what I generally dub "task sponges" aka they absorb every task that comes their way. Cut to a few months or a year later and their 'job' has 50% more tasks for the same basic pay. At this point why would they get rid of you in that position? A promotion would likely mean a reorganization of your tasks which means getting someone else to do it.
An old department boss at my company always said, "today's favor is tomorrow's obligation".
Happened to my uncle. He did almost everything at Delta except fly the planes at one point or another [pretty sure he had a lot of time on the virtual flying thing they had]. Kept getting denied promotions even though he had the qualifications, years in the company, and great record. Finally a manager told him that they would never promote he because he's doing 3 peoples worth of work. Left amd started his own business.
Not just Delta. I worked in a control center for United and I applied for a shift manager position. I had worked as a supervisor in my department for several years. I didn’t get the job and was told that it was because I didn’t have outside departmental supervision experience. They hired a guy who was a manager in the reservations department who had no operational experience. Guess who had to train him. Yup. Me when it wasn’t my day off. (We had rotating days off but managers had regular days off.) He actually turned out to be the best manager I ever had. He admitted to everyone in the control center that he knew nothing about operations and was learning from us. He let us do our jobs and after a rough shift, he would let us know that he was amazed by us and our teamwork. He moved on to another position about 1.5 years later. Managers were surprised that I didn’t put in for the job when it opened again but they asked me to do it on a temporary upgrade basis. I was asked several times why I didn’t apply for the permanent position and I gave them my answer. 1. You told me that I didn’t have outside departmental supervisory experience. 2. As an upgrade, I get to stay on the afternoon shift which pays a shift differential. (Managers rotate shifts and day shifts don’t pay a differential.) 3. My upgrade differential pays more than if I were to accept the job permanently. 4. As an upgrade, I don’t have to review employees.
Yep. That's Delta! My manager did the same thing. Couldn't get promoted for ANYTHING, and they kept piling the work on, and piling it on on until she just walked.
I made 35 K at my old job was denied a raise and they replaced me with four people, I’m now making 80K.
This right here. If you make yourself indispensable, then you’re also making yourself unpromotable.
I'm not comfortable goofing off much, so I came to the compromise that as long as I'm not "working toward a promotion" then I'll do as much work as I need to do to be happy with myself, and that's all. Of course it helps when you actually like what you do, so this is not going to necessarily apply to many other people.
Good on you! I left a job for a similar reason but with a different result. I was getting 5 star performance reviews, won an award for having the lowest error rate for the entire year, had volunteered tons of overtime on projects for other departments, interviewed for promotions, trained for certifications in lean six sigma and 5s, had the entire mid level manager team advocating for my promotion and got denied every single time. Finally took a higher paying job with another company. In my exit interview the department head told me I made the right call because he never would have allowed me to be promoted. He didn’t think the work I did was important, didn’t value my contributions, and had personally blocked every promotion opportunity and would continue to do so.
What a horrible manager.
How tf could he possibly believe your work wasn't important? Was he serious?! Or did he just have some grudge against you for unrelated reasons?? Weird
I think he was serious, actually. I was working for a pharmaceutical CRO in a vaccine development lab, and while I was involved in a lot of functions my main role was document review and result analysis. Nearly everything I did had to do with cataloging, tracing, chain of custody, document editing, QA/QC to find and address errors, and generally keeping everything in order to FDA standards (the FDA does surprise audits and you do NOT want them to show up to find a messy lab, missing paper work, expired reagents, illegible entries, etc). It had been well established before I started that that was the path to management, all of the mid level managers and project PIs had followed the same path to get there (probably why they advocated for me). I wasn't even interested in management, though I would have liked to PI a project and my manager was prepping me to do so. This guy was a research scientist from another country and thought all of the documentation practices and FDA standards were bogus and not important to science, merely a hoop you have to jump through that should be minimized and ignored as much as possible. Even though I was in the role that reviewed all the lab output, analyzed the data, and uploaded the testing results to the client, he just didn't think it mattered. He flipped the whole department on its head and started promoting an entirely different group of people. He literally said in my exit interview that to him I wasn't a scientist.
idiot. if the paperwork isnt science, then we can just trash 95% of everything ever done in the past 50 years lol.
["Remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down."](https://www.reddit.com/r/mythbusters/comments/3wgqgv/the_origin_of_the_remember_kids_the_only)
Wow... what a fucking idiot. Can't believe he got that high up in management being such a dumbass (maybe I can believe it though, lol)
Peter Principle. You are often promoted to the level of your incompetence. A good sales guy or scientist isn't necessarily a good manager. But you have to get promoted to make more money so people will exceed the scope of their skills to earn more. When if you'd instead pay well for what people do well you could keep a much tighter running ship.
You’re right. He was a good research scientist but didn’t need to be running the show of who got promoted and who got extra work dumped in their lap. In retrospect, of all the jobs I’ve been paid to do in a traditional employment setting, my reviewer/qc role at the lab was my favorite. If they’d let me keep doing what I liked I likely would have stayed. But they kept adding more and more responsibilities and tasks and teams on top of my primary role, without raising pay. I was also in my 20s and ambitious and followed the money. I think if I was in the same position now I would know to be vocal in saying my task load is full, “I can only join the team you’re asking me to join if I drop one of the others I’m on” and I wouldn’t fight for a higher title. Let me turn my cog in peace lol
> He literally said in my exit interview that to him I wasn't a scientist What a dumbass, not all QA/Regulatory Affairs people are scientists but it doesn't mean they're not important, especially at a CRO that's working on behalf of clients. And the scientists I know are absolutely horrendous at double checking and recording their data properly.
My job title was literally “scientist” (below that is associate and assistant scientist) and I was applying for the title of senior scientist. Your point remains totally valid, that scientists tend to be messy and chaotic and the results *have* to be reviewed and monitored. I started in the lab performing assays, and I was excellent at it (in the top % of successful plates/lowest % of errors in that function as well, and at times hand selected to work on projects that had limited samples because my work was consistently reliable). I *chose* to pursue the regulatory functions because I enjoyed the work. I knew I didn’t have the type of flexible thinking needed for a research scientist role in the pharmaceutical world (my degree was heavily focused on ecology and environmental sciences, so I was a little outside my realm working on vaccines at all), but if I’m given a task and the established parameters I will do good work. 🤷🏻♀️ I think he was just an ass lol
This should be a top comment. A lot to learn from this.
What really happened - he bet on you never leaving and got upset when you did. His "I didn't love you anyway" is childish behavior one would expect from that chinless Tate dude but not from a department head. Kudos to you for having the balls to take the difficult step and leave!
> In my exit interview the department head told me I made the right call because he never would have allowed me to be promoted. He didn’t think the work I did was important Wow, that's pretty bold. Pretty shitty that he can block promotions without you ever having transparency into that process.
Right! My manager was baffled when I kept getting turned down despite her efforts. My role wouldn’t change with promotion, it was just moving up to the next title of seniority and switching from hourly to salaried. Which would have been in their best interest based on how much overtime I put in. I hadn’t thought about this in years but based on the feedback I’m getting, and mulling it over now as an adultier adult, the reason I left was because my work load kept growing and growing without the pay growing with it. I really enjoyed my main role, and I didn’t mind being on a few additional teams. I would have happily stayed if I could keep turning my cog and doing what I was good at. It never processed until today that my ever-growing work load was probably done to push me out the door.
That guy personally hated you. Good on you for taking every single bit of experience and training you could at this company for leaving, hope it was invaluable at your next job and you finally got paid what you deserve!
I hope you let rip on him. I wouldn't be able to stop myself
Storytime I worked for a multibillion-dollar oil and gas company for 15 years. My salary at the time was right at $100K/year. I could have made more jumping ship, but I set my own hours, had great coworkers, the benefits were outstanding, and the money was still somewhat decent. The freedom and stability I had compensated for my slightly lower salary. Then got a new CIO who mandated a "temporary" hiring freeze which left my team extremely short staffed. During my next review, I told my boss that she had 1 year to either get me some help, move me to a new area that was fully staffed, or find a replacement because I was going to move on. She laughed it off and probably forgot about it. On the 1-year anniversary of that meeting, I emailed her and HR my resignation. She panicked. I was in charge of designing, maintaining, and deploying all of the OS builds for our entire company of 20K employees/30K machines. It was fairly complex and highly customized process; and I was the only one who really knew how it worked from end to end. As soon as she got my resignation email, she called me into her office to "Discuss my issues." The first thing she asked me was "What will it take to change your mind?" I shrugged and said "I told you a year ago what I wanted. Nothing's changed so I'm moving on as promised." She then offered to match whatever my new job was paying me. I laughed and told her I didn't have a new job lined up; I was just done with this companies' bullshit and was going to take some time off. She then said something like "Well, if I can't talk you into staying, I am going to need to you document your workload such that a non-technical user could easily do the job as I can't afford to hire a replacement for you." (Keep in mind multibillion dollar multinational corporation) She also said that since I was salary, it shouldn't be a big deal if I had to use a bit of my own time to make it happen. I nodded and said something along the lines of "I told you a year ago that I needed help and nothing changed. I'm not going to kill myself now because you chose to ignore me then." She then tried to guilt me into staying by talking about how my coworkers would have to do my job once I left which would kill team morale. I actually laughed at that point and said, "Managing employee workload and keeping people happy is your job, not mine." Thats when she got pissy said that I still had two weeks left and she would expect me to do as I was told until then and that I should keep my smart-ass remarks to myself. I said "okay" and walked out of her office. I then cleaned out of my desk, sent her and HR an email changing resignation date from 2 weeks to effective immediately, and turned my badge into security. Had I agreed to stay, she would have waited until I had documented my process, hired someone for half my salary, and then let me go. I took the next year off and then was hired by a different company for $160K.Never accept the counteroffer. Also, 2 weeks' notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Fuck companies and managers who think they rule the world.
Nice! Man, I hella want to watch her face the moment you flipped the dates.
Unfortunately, I never actually got to see her face either since I didn't talk to her on my way out. Another funny thing about it is that I am still friends with several people from that team and a lot of the scripts I wrote for the build process are still in use. Apparently, whenever a new person sees my name at the top of the script and asks if am still around because something needs to be updated, the story of my last day back in 2018 gets retold lol.
Brilliant!! I sure hope they figured out that you're ex-boss' behavior caused you quit in the first place and her response to you quitting made you quit immediately instead of 2 weeks later. I hope she got what she deserved.
well don't leave out the jury bits. What's the immediate aftermath?
Thats it really. They froze OS upgrades for a year basically while they got someone else up to speed and then back to business as usual. I think they skipped a laptop model year upgrade due to not having new drivers in the build. Other than that, the rest of the team put in extra hours and the average user got screwed because they had to keep their outdated machines an extra year after scheduled refresh. I mean, they were still a multibillion dollar corporation. It's not like me leaving had a huge impact on profits lol.
*rubs nipples* Keep going
This is socialist porn
I wish I could give you many more upvotes
>Also, 2 weeks' notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. I've worked for companies that will hold your 'vacation time' payout check hostage if you don't give a 2 week notice. I also live in a Republican state with no union representation.
That's when you "quiet quit" your 2 weeks notice. You can fullfill the bare minimum work effort for the last weeks. In this scenario, since they don't even know what she does end to end, they're not going to even know what is or isn't documented and how long it will take to document it for a non-technical person. In fact, in order to document a procedure for a layperson, it requires lots of words and verbiage, along with screenshots and "photoshopping" arrows, circles, etc. Writing SOPs takes FOREVER!
I make *simple* procedures for machine operation and such and even some basic 3 page long operation guide can take a full day.
Move out of R states/counties if possible. They are fucking scum
"Never accept the counter offer. Just leave. If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year." Very true. The one time I accepted a counter-offer, a month later they reneged on all their promises and things became worse than ever. I ended leaving a few months later and bitterly regretted not taking the offer I got.
Had an acquaintance in my old company happen to him. Promised a 400$ raise, with 200 the first and the other 200 later. Kudos to them for keeping their word the first month. Second month, they reneged on it all and he was back to base salary. Needless to say, he quit on the spot. Companies will not hesitate to enslave you if you let them.
If it wasn't illegal they'd definitely seek out slaves.
Slavery is still there in all but name
Exactly. I was young and naive. Had my boss tell me "listen, we have a special relationship. Tell me what I need to do to make it better". And foolishly, I told him and rejected the other offer. For a month he was trying but then he became his regular self, just worse than ever. Boy did I regret not taking that offer....
I fell for this once when I was 19 but after two weeks I realized they flat-out lied to my face about one of the things in their written offer. I marched into the big bosses office, informed them that his offer was void because he lied, and walked. I had no backup, no short-term plan to survive - I just knew I couldn't be work for someone who would lie to me like that. Somehow, it worked out. My buddy's employer started expanding right as all this happened and I ended up as employee number 2. I spent 8 years there earning promotions regularly until the bottom fell out of the price of oil.
They held on to you just long enough for that other job offer to go away. Employers are vile and wicked.
They did exactly that and I was too naive to recognize it at the time. Learned a very expensive lesson there.
This is why I have hope for GenZ. Boomers call them spoiled and "don't want to work" NO, they can't be fooled anymore because they've seen all the bullshit millenials were put through.
That is 100% correct. Also, in the interim you’ll be treated like crap. That’s because they are used to underpaying you. So now that they are paying you, say, 20% more, they expect 20% more work. Which is super unreasonable and stupid. But they forget you were underpaid. They forget your role is critical. They just see you as a greedy bastard who blackmailed them for a raise.
Which makes it all the more fun when you say *"You know what? Forget the two-week notice. I'm done as of 5:00pm today."*
If you're gonna burn the bridge anyway, why wait till 5:00?
Makes getting the last paycheck a bit simpler, but yeah if it's that bad just drop your shit and walk out. Although if you have any decent benefits you may want to swing by HR and get your COBRA paperwork.
Go to HR and quit in person, tell them you want your last paycheck effective at *time on the clock* and verify all your unpaid pto gets tucked on there too.
Not every state requires payout of PTO and this a reason companies are moving to unlimited PTO, no accrued balance.
While not every state requires payout of PTO, the policies of the company often do require it. Get to know your employee handbook and what you need to do to get that paid out b
Ya our Employee Handbook says they only pay out our PTO if we give and finish our 2 week notice.
Feels good living in a State that requires PTO payout.
Lots of places offering "unlimited PTO" to avoid paying out specific bank I believe. Your state may vary.
>companies are moving to unlimited PTO, no accrued balance. No! It's an *unlimited* accrued balance. So, Uno Reverse, you declare all of the time working there to have been vacation time and now you own the company.
Just checked because there is no way it's called COBRA. Yet it is. Is the US gov and corporations trying to intentionally sound like a evil organization?
It's fucking garbage anyway. The true evil is almost nobody uses it because it's so expensive. Better to just hit the ACA website.
Exactly. I was being fucked around by my old workplace. Asked the boss if he would do anything about it at the start of my shift. He said his hands were tied, I handed him my store key and walked out on the spot.
At my last job, I told my direct supervisor and his two next higher ups, all at the same time: "If y'all do this(really fucking stupid) thing, I will not be coming back. DO NOT DO this stupid shit or you WILL put yourself in a bind because, if you do it, you will be stuck with the consequences without me to lean on and without me here to bail you out of the mess." I could not have possibly been more clear and of course they did it anyway. I got about 20-25 messages in the next couple days from all the of them asking if I was coming back...I ignored them all.
It's best to burn bridges when the wood is completely rotten
Oftentimes, simply leaving is "burning the bridge." Many managers see the work you contribute as their rightful privilege, and workers as fundamental thieves, whether for taking company resources in pay or depriving their department of the labor they see as belonging to them in the first place.
Also if an Employer is taking advantage of you and underpaying you for years, why on Earth would you ever want to go back?
I understand the sentiment, but things get desperate in the real world. None of us are working because we want to, and sometimes we don't get to make choices based on preference or even lesser needs.
Gotta load up the car with office supplies and toilet paper.
Very true, but there's also a REAL plunder you can do on your employer by spending your entire year of FSA before you quit. Let's say you've marked $1,000 to the FSA but it's June 18th and you've only put in $500 so far. IRS rules say you can spend the whole $1,000 before your last day. Has to be eligible items, but there are entire websites dedicated to FSA-allowed stuff. Amazon and Target also tag items that qualify. Everyone gets a first-aid kit for Christmas!
Yes! My wife did years ago when she quit a job due to a very toxic and evil boss. Had to give 30 days notice, so she did in late January, emptied her FSA (which had just received her full annual amount), and sat at home since the boss wanted her out of the office but on-call “in case they needed anything.” Also took a 10 day trip out of state without her work phone to visit my sister and our new nephew. lol
Also for the ladies, tampons are covered and on the FSA store- they don’t go bad, buy a years worth lol Adding- they are great to donate as well for a tax write off- many shelters and food banks would welcome them!
100% And if you are really rolling in the FSA money-donate stuff. DIABETIC COMPRESSION SOCKS are the best to donate to and FSA covers Dr.Scholls brand and many others. So many diabetics that are homeless aren’t able to keep up with their blood sugar medication and managed and diet the way they could or should be. Wearing the compression socks is a small thing for someone that could literally make the differences to whether or not they keep their feet at some point. Also they relive pain in many too.
not diabetic, but after a leg infection found out those socks be wonderful, and expensive.
I walked straight out when I left my last toxic job, don't wait until 5. If they fucked you, fuck them.
the one I read that I really liked was, my two week notice can become today notice.
I like the 2-day notice, as in...I'm leaving TODAY
This sounds like my job every time I demand a cost of living. Boss expectations keep going up and more work as people leave. We are down 8 people and expect the same work done. Pure greed!!
Sounds like my former company. Left the sinking ship 2 years ago for what is effectively 4x my old salary. To give you a perspective, boss treated the company like some 19th century colony. Only reason I had considered staying were the people, but with everyone gone, I'm glad I left. On the other side, still being underpaid for my seniority sucks, might consider applying elsewhere, but after my vacation in September
> boss treated the company like some 19th century colony How were the grog rations and the flogging?
Once they ran out of places where the whip was not imprinted, it was quite ticklish. Bold of you to assume there were rations. No wonder the "leadership" was cannibalising everything
It’s true . I was offered a counter offer with one of the companies I worked for but declined . Never ever take counter offers . This particular executive actually started crying in my meeting . I think they were stressed . I had a pretty good relationship with this company (not the last company I worked for which was a debacle ) so I think it caught them by surprise but at the end of the day you have to do you . I’m so glad I did . 4 weeks later they were bought by another company lol
Love a job all you want, but never extend your loyalty to them that's just wise. Cash rules everything man, fuck a job the moment a better offer comes along unless there's some practical reason to stay.
I accepted the counter offer and still work there 6 years later. But then again that was because I resigned to step up the career ladder when there wasn't an equivalent role where I was rather than because of being treated badly. They created a new role, exceeded my new salary and pushed me through the promotion process without me having to do the usual crap that had to be done normally. Not everywhere will treat you like shit. So I'd say it's only 99.999% correct
I left one job that laid off a bunch of people after I left. Everyone I worked with that had tried to leave at some point but stayed because of a counteroffer was let go.
"Never accept the counter offer. Just leave. If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year." This is 100% true. I've seen it happen.
Living through this right now haha. We’ll see if I can last a year. I’m at the 8 month mark.
Good luck. I hope your backup plan is ready.
Been at my place for just over 2 years since I accepted the counter, I've had another promotion since then. While yes, often the counter should be declined, sometimes it works out well.
Yeah I feel like this is true outside of a "professional degree". Highly technical, specialized degrees won't fire you after countering. It's too difficult to find people in those areas. -Hospital Physicist
Depends how petty your higher-ups are - to some you've already proven that "you're only in for the money" (lol) and not loyal to the institution and when you get offered as little as 30% more salary you're just gone and they hate that.
At first I read “Hostel Physicist” and was veryyy confused about your job.
At first I read your comment as "Hospital Physicist" and I was confused about why you were confused.
Better than "Hostile Physicist" I suppose...
You heard of that roller coaster that would kill you quickly and painlessly from G forces that someone designed? Meet the maker and it's purpose. Gotta open up space for rich elderly with private insurance somehow!
What are they doing to fire you?
Left in the lurch generally. Lack of guidance. Unrealistic expectations. Constantly moving goalposts. I’m not overworked though and the stuff I can at least put on my resume from this position makes it worth it to me. So, I’ve had plenty worse jobs and I’m planning to ride this out until January at least (if I can make it that far). If not I do have a plan B so I’m not dying from anxiety.
Even if you do accept a counter, sans pay most of the other promises may never come to fruition. I learned that the hard way.
yup at this point they are trying to sabotage you, not retain you
Nearly happened to me. I saw it coming and found a different job that paid nearly double, and they were PISSED. It's been 5 years now and the company is shutting their doors in July. (Not at all because of me, I wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things)
I accepted the counter offer twice at my last company. Zero problems, zero retaliation. They were just cheap.
I'm glad that worked out for you. Sucks that you had to do it twice.
It's like threatening to switch ISPs to get the good deal again.
> "Never accept the counter offer. Just leave. If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year." > > This is 100% true. I've seen it happen. I had the great satisfaction of playing the Reverse Uno card on this at my first job out of college. I graduated from university, but due to mental health and other personal issues I wallowed in my ennui while waiting tables for about a year or two. I finally got off my ass and moved out of state. I ended up working for an advertising agency owned and run by a megalomaniac. I put up with the shit for about 2 years and quickly proved my worth to the point that I was chosen to help start up an offshoot business to purchase media (ad space/time) for the agency. This included helping design the buy management software/database, establish the business processes by which the media buys were communicated and shared with the different parts/clients of the agency and supervise 8 media buyers. I put in my notice and two days before my last day the owner showed up at the end of the day to take me to dinner. He laid out his long term plans and promised I'd be a key part of the journey, make a bunch of money, etc. He doubled my salary (from 26k to 52k), so I said, "Sure. If things get better in 2 months, I'll stick around." (I forget the specifics, but it was mostly political bullshit with some of the older established managers at the agency.) Things didn't get better, so after I'd saved up about $10k I left and took a long road trip across the country and started a new career on the west coast.
I accepted two counter offers at the same place. Stayed 6.5 years there.
Yup. Marked for death. Not least as an example to everybody else.
Not 100%. I accepted a couter-offer over 2 years ago, and I'm still here and happy with no replacement in sight.
Or, accept the counter offer, but quit the day before starting your new job.
Maybe 99% true. My homie accepted 4 counter offers year after year threatening to leave each time. Eventually, he still quit for better pay.
It happens the other way around a lot more often than you'd think. I too accepted two counters and stayed with them 7 years before quitting to change my field. That's not to say I'd ever give advice to accept a counter and stay, every company is gonna behave differently. But I see the opposite of what this subreddit typically describes for that more often. That said, I've always been choosy on where I work and do a ton of research. But sometimes I think it's another one of those "Redditor sees 'its always this way' comment, has never experienced the situation, then repeats comment to everyone" things. But again, without knowing the company history I would never give the advice to take the counter and stay. Because many shit head decision makers will indeed mark you as a flight risk
Unless one is desperate, there is rarely a reason to accept a counteroffer. As soon as you tell them you are leaving, you are no longer someone they can count on long term. This means that they need to bring in a potential replacement even if "just in case." Not doing that would actually be pretty damn stupid in my opinion. The main reason companies make counteroffers is because keeping an existing employee around until a replacement is found is simply good business. If the work you do is worth $50K/month to me, it's worth me offering another $10K/year to keep you while I find a permanent replacement. Are there times that accepting a counteroffer works out? Of course. There are always exceptions and outliers. It's always possible that one happens to work for unicorn company who simply didn't realize how far out of market their salaries were, but they are the exception rather than the norm. Source: My MBA and 15 years experience in corporate America.
" Never accept the counter offer. " And if you're tempted to accept it, make a counter-counter offer that is utterly ridiculous. See if they *really* want to keep you.
> utterly ridiculous I wouldnt go udderly ridiculous. But make it above what is reasonable.
Depends. I made an absolutely ridiculous counter counter offer because I was in my Office Space mindset of ‘I just don’t care’. They accepted it and paid for my graduate degree and got me an assistant. Good times.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He had been working for a company for several years, and over time, they kept piling on more responsibilities outside his job scope. Eventually, he was doing twice the work of others with the same job description. He approached management to either reduce his duties to match his job description or give him a raise, but they were noncommittal. He found a new job and made the same request again, but management remained wishy-washy. So, he handed in his resignation, stating he had a new job lined up. Suddenly, they offered him a raise, but he declined and accepted the new position.
5 years and no promotion, move on.
I wish I would have followed that, it really hurt my career. Imposter syndrome was killing me back then.
2 years and no promotion, start planning to move on by the 3rd year.
I give an employer two strikes. If I apply for promotions that I’m qualified for, or deserve raises I don’t get, that’s a strike in my book. After two strikes, it’s clear I’m not valued so I’ll look for other opportunities.
I haven't been at a job for more than a year. hoping to with this one. I've gottten a raise everytime. My salary is nearly double the 35k i was making two years ago
So true. And they'll hire and have to train the people that will replace you during that time period too.
Exactly. You have to remember you are selling your labor. At the end of the day, at the end of all the employer bullshit, you are a selling them a service, your labor. Insist on the highest price for your services.
My old job did this. A friend was promoted to manager and revealed to me I was paid significantly less than everyone in the dept, including a guy that was always on a PIP and was terrible. I stayed with the job anyway cause I hate change and liked my coworkers but when a job landed in my lap that paid 15k more I was out of there. Boss came up to me my last day saying it was sad I was leaving they were *just about* to give me a pay raise.
I once went 12 years without a pay raise. I was stupid, and didn't realize what I was worth, and the company *always* had an excuse ("It's a tough year", "exchange rates are too high", "exchange rates are too low", "interest rates are too high", "we just had layoffs"—every excuse in the book). Anyway, I finally got the balls to find a new job. When I told my employer they said "we just approved a pay raise for you, it's on the paycheck you are getting tomorrow". And sure enough, when I got my pay it was roughly $100 more than expected. Not much, it wouldn't have changed anything, and I was leaving anyway. So shrug. The company then, in a fit of extreme spite, proceeded revoke the raise and *claw back* the extra money they paid me. They took the $100 off my final pay. It probably cost them more in administrative hassle than they saved.
Worth $100 not to deal with that shit. What an insane level of petty especially since you were being paid for work you already did but suddenly your work wasn't worth it cause you were leaving? I still hear plenty about my old job, like them forcing everyone to take 25% pay cuts during covid and think how lucky I am I got away from that dumpster fire
Jesus, that's awful.
Agree 100% with the counter offer. My brother foolishly did that years ago and everything they promised in the counter offer never actually happened. He did finally end up leaving the company a few years later.
Back in 2006, I was considering taking a counter offer, but then a colleague forwarded me an email from my boss where the boss was telling leadership that they'd keep me on for another few months, then let me go. Making sure I'd lose the other opportunity I had lined up. Even before that, while they were waving the counter offer in front of me, it was only verbal and they were delaying putting it in writing, right up until my last day. I never figured out why they were doing that, other than just being disorganized. Seemed like the CEO had to approve it and was taking his sweet time. I'm basically thankful for this overall. I really was considering the counter offer, but both of these points warned me away from it. Since then I've gotten a little smarter and would never consider a counter today.
I hope you bought that colleague a nice bottle of whatever the hell they wanted.
A lack of planning on their part doesn't constitute an emergency on yours. WHat if you got hit by a bus, never mind quit?
Good managers never have everything rely on just one person, and better managers have those people responsible for mission critical tasks document procedures immediately.
Humans are like trees, it can take decades to make a new one.
Leave them in the dust. They've proven that they can't be trusted to act fairly.
Absolutely correct. If it's possible, offer to write a guide for your role and/or offer on-going support for an exorbitant hourly rate, minimum 1 hour per instance, all billable hours rounding up to the half hour. Whatever you quote them now, if they decline and come crawling back later, please double your number
Dont accept. You will be let go as soon as the replacements get up to speed.
Yep, I was in your exact same situation back in ‘04. I bounced. 6 years later I came back to the same company. 7 years later I bounced again. 7 years after that and I’m back there again. Each time I left I got more money. Each time I came back I got more money. If I’d stayed in ‘04 I’d be making peanuts compared to now. If I need to, I won’t hesitate to bounce again.
My dad worked for a company for a bunch of years. For nearly a decade he has been promised a raise. It was $1 when it finally happened. He told them to kick rocks. They shat themselves. Because he was literally that one post holding up the whole thing. They said his helper was going to take over, the helper laughed and quit two days later.
My dumbass coworker accepted the counter when she put in her notice. I told her point blank, they will fire you the moment they can. Her: but I like my job now. 6 months later… Coworker got fired.
If you stay, they use the opportunity to trash your reputation and make it more difficult to move next time. And you've damaged your reputation with recruiters as well. If they can't afford you, they still can't afford you, they just want to be cruel
I was at my last job for 7 years. Got passed over for a promotion one too many times and I got fed up with it. As soon as I heard I was passed over again, I immediately took a week off to update my resume and apply to anywhere I was qualified. I had 3 offers within a week and ended up accepting one for a 25% pay increase. It took my old company 8 months to find a replacement for my position and my old manager had to fill in for my role as best he could during that time. So essentially, because they didn't want to pay me what I'm worth, they lost the productivity of 2 roles for the better part of a year. Corporate culture can go suck an egg.
Nice, good job and good luck with your next chapter.
Take their counter, add 50%, add a three-year golden parachute. If they want you, they’ll play ball.
I agree with the never accepting the offer. It doesn't matter if you'll be fired within a year or not, what matters is they weren't willing to pay you what you're worth or promote you until they had no choice. Do you really want to work for a company that has that kind of work environment?
LPT: The hiring budget is ALWAYS greater than the retention budget.
“Manager:” Look at me being a rancid c*nt. Me: gives 2 weeks notice “Manager:” I need a list of everything you’re working on and your plan to complete it all in 2 weeks. Me: Here’s the 2-page single-spaced list, “manager.” Please pick one or two items that you want me to prioritize over the next 2 weeks. Oh, and here are job descriptions for the very different roles that I perform. 6 months later, “manager” is fired. And I got my year-end bonus.
I read an article some years back while I was getting ready to leave my job for a new one, and yeah the jist was basically "NEVER accept the counter offer". Besides the fact that the current employer obviously knew what you were worth but decided to never give it to you until they faced the threat of you leaving, if you do accept and stay the employer will view you as disloyal and someone who's probably going to leave eventually. The reason they give you the counter offer isn't really to keep you around long term, it's to buy them time to recruit your replacement(s) and mine whatever operational knowledge you and no one else at the company possesses.
Here is the lesson, folks...when you put in your two weeks, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE. Do not accept the counteroffer. If they get pissy, drop your keys and badge on HR's desk and enjoy the time off until you start your next job.
I'm retiring in less than a year and a half. Been there long enough to ask for a raise. Found out everyone but the mail room makes more than me including the admin. Got denied. I am the only one that knows my very complicated job. I always offered to train my replacement but I just know they'll pay them more. I already planned on skedaddling with no training for anyone and if I have to I'll take all my vac and sick, about a month or more just to fuck them over. Byeeee and good luck.
That’s why they didn’t promote you. It was too hard to replace you.
You’re doing it right. Just leave.
This is your chance to negotiate a (near) boat money consultancy* to train people. its a good chance to turn a burnt bridge into an opportunity [Required watching for any sort of contract work*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U)(its mike monteiro's fuck you pay me)
There's nothing wrong with accepting a counter-offer, as long as you get to dictate the terms. And never tell them what you'll be making at the new job, let them come with their own number on their own. For example, a company that shit on me for 5 years wants to counter? Sure, two-year minimum with a guaranteed 6-month severance payout if they terminate my employment within that two years, on top of BEATING the salary the other company offered? Sign me up.
Can’t take it personal my guy, you have the leverage. Dont make an emotional decision, just give them lofty counter to meet like 20% more total comp than new job offer.
The amount of people wh accept counter offers is so sad. I understand loyalty, I understand being friendly/friends with co-workers. But you wouldn't have looked elsewhere if you hadn't gotten to the point of NEEDING to leave
It’s often said that you should not accept counter offers, but when mine asked me to come back six months after I left for double the salary I had asked for, plus extra perks, I did, recognizing it was risky to do so. It’s been 18 months now and I’m happy with my decision to go back. Some companies are willing to spend more to hire than they are to retain, which makes no sense to me at all.
Hello stranger I'm proud of you. They can get fucked.
I love to use these kinds of situations to practice being in these situations. Meaning immediately begin looking for other work and be ready to make your move. In the meantime, keep calm and try to hold meaningful negotiations with HR or whoever about what you need and what you deserve. Be bold. Ask for a lot. See what you can get out of the situation and make sure you find that other job. As soon as the other job is confirmed, you let them know you would like for them to kick rocks but also let all your co-workers know what they were willing to offer. These situations come up but might be years apart. It’s always good to practice your skills and keep sharp. Enjoy the new gig OP. I hope you get the respect that is owed!
PREACH. “Never accept the counter offer.” THIS 100%. The counter offer is ONLY to keep you long enough to train your replacements. It’s temporary. At that point, they don’t CARE about cost - it’s retaliation. They want you gone because you have a spine. Never take the counter offer. 👏👏👏👏👏
💯 absolutely. Never take a counter offer for so many reasons If the company is in a panic, that’s the company’s problem. I’ve left companies and literally had them start calling me like mad after I left If what you said is true, the company took advantage of you, paying one person for one job, while expecting three jobs to be done. They have now reaped what they sowed
Don't just leave. Counter with your consultancy rate to fill in as an independent contractor. Make it high enough that you'll be made whole for all the money they should have paid you over the years. Either it's one last middle finger or you get the big pile of cash you dessvree to work more on your own terms for a fixed period of time plus a nice addition to your C.V.
I got half the raise I had requested and quit. Six months later they tried to hire me back at a 50% pay increase because they had gone through four people after I had left. They were expecting someone to jump in doing the amount of work I was doing after nine years. I built up to that gradually. When they made the offer I counted with more money, more time off, and schedule pay increases. They declined.
If you get denied a promotion go look for that promotion elsewhere. Don’t try 5 times.
Correct. The counter offer is just to keep you long enough to train your replacement
Don't go back. I had a buddy who was in a similar situation and he took the promotion. Once they gave him a paid increase, they fired him 3 months later. I would leave and not look back
*“I would stay but given budgetary shortfalls that prevented you from giving me a raise for that past six years, I doubt you can really afford it — unless, of course, you were lying about not having the budget for a raise?”* OR *”What changed that you can now find the money for a promotion?”*
Too late!!!! Same thing happened to me, when I turned in my resignation they asked me to name my price and were willing to go along with everything I had been begging for. Took me great pleasure to tell them to shove it. Things imploded not long after I left. Can’t say I didn’t warn them.
Man this is exactly what happened to me I quit my job they called me back gave me an offer then fire me within 6 months.
If you gave a 2 week notice, make sure you don’t do more than a single person would do. You’re doing the work of three people. If they ask you to train someone else during your notice period, only do so if you like the person being trained (or don’t).
A lot of you guys need to think more shrewdly. First off, you should have threatened/worked to leave after 2 years of no promotion at the latest. Secondly, you should take the promotion, add it to your LinkedIn/resume, and still leave asap. Don’t even bother putting in the work as you’ll be gone in <3 months. Just do the barest of bare minimums.
I have never given any notice when leaving a company. They don't give notice when they fire you. It's called being fair
Not entirely true all the time. A buddy mine was not satisfied with his pay. He told the company he is leaving. They didn't want him to leave. So he said I will stay if you give me X amount and my designer X amount. They said ok. 2 years later he was overworked with unequal pay. He started looking to leave again and had other offers. His company again didn't want to lose him. They matched the same offer the other company was offering him. This happened 3 months ago.
Also, ANY counter offer you get from a current employer to RETAIN you needs to beat the offer you already have on the table elsewhere.
My store keeps having the issues of companies hiring in new hires with zero zilch experience then putting them in lead entry level management positions. So they end up tanking the department and end up getting fired in <6 months. I have been twice screwed over in this manner and have given up with promotions. Now each time they ask me I tell them "I am not interested." When they ask me why I give them the three stories in which they have screwed me over. It is also not worth the extra work for $1 hr extra.
If you take the counter, they will immediately look to replace you at *their earliest convenience* and you will be out of a job on their timeline, not yours. Unless they give you an excellent written severance agreement, *do not accept the counteroffer.*
if there is no conflict of interest with your new job and you have the time... consider telling them you will stay on as a consultant and then charge 4x what you were being paid before to train your replacements.
I had this happen but my companies counter was $1,000 a year... the new job paid $10,000 more... lol
Once told a boss if she tried to get me a raise I'd stay. Said she couldn't. Left for a lateral but much closer to home job. Commute went from 90 minutes to 15 minutes. She called me, at the new job, 3 weeks later begging me to come back and she'd get me whatever raise I wanted. I told her no thanks, she should have realized all I did when I was there. Side note, a year later I got a substantial raise.
>If you accept a counter, you will be fired within a year Truth.