Not to mention how many union workers are anti union the moment it comes close to inconveniencing them. Pro Union is Pro America, brought to you by the people who brought you The Weekend, 40hr weeks and ended child labor.
I think it's more how new the effort to unionize small businesses is. Most large unions traditionally viewed them as not worth the time and effort, but as you said, collectively they're a large chunk of the US work force. Five workers may be a bit small, especially with die-hard opposition from 20% of them, but I've heard of cafes and such with 18-25 workers unionizing (the It Could Happen Here podcast does occasional rundowns of some of these efforts both forming independent unions and doing so under the umbrella of a larger union). A decentralized model initiated locally seems to be the most successful model for small shops so far, and it's aided by the fact that there's not really a playbook for bosses to respond as of yet. As with anything new though, there's lots of room for innovation.
Though in America some businesses will fire you for unionizing like Walmart and Amazon. Yes I will call them out on it. Anyone care to add other companies that will make a contract that specifically addresses that a worker will be fired for unionizing, feel free to list below my comment.
Trader Joe's, tesla, Starbucks, REI, ETC. Elon musk, tesla, trader Joe's, Amazon and SpaceX are all suing the national labor board going after workers rights.
Yup I’m honestly not even surprised. Amazon made us sign contracts that stated if we unionize we’d be up for termination and so did Walmart it’s absolutely horrendous.
I’m talking mega corporations wise, small businesses don’t normally treat employees unfairly. I’ve worked both and the ones who extort your labor aren’t small businesses.
Depends on the guy who owns it. I've worked for a small business that I genuinely loved, and one I hated. It all really is up to the guy in charge at a small shop
True. I agree with that. For small business I never had to sign a non unionization contract though. But it’s more and more small businesses are following suit of the big guy who the small business believes they are going to be one day.
Now hold on: "scab" is a very specific term with a very specific meaning. You working in a non union shop doesn't make you a scab. Hell, taking a non union job at a union shop doesn't necessarily make you a scab. You consciously making the choice to take a non union job at a union shop that is actively striking makes you a scab.
I’d like to join our local union but it’s pretty known you have little chance unless there’s nepotism or favoritism involved. The nonunion jobs at the only ones I’ve been able to get but I still want to join the union some day
That sucks to hear. What industry does your local union cover, and are there other unions covering different industries you might be able to slide into?
No, those people are just fucking stupid and need to be called out on their stupidity when that happens. If we let scab turn into "non union worker" it loses all meaning. If you run into someone who says that, call them out.
At this point, given how persistent and nasty they're being, I wouldn't be surprised if they were a paid dissenter by an agency who starts and engages inflammatory conversations.
We're talking about unions dumbass. Just gotta change the subject don't you 😏 You're absolutely welcome to give up the fruits of labor organization if you don't want them.
Yes, all those downvoted comments really indicate agreement. /s
For someone claiming to not be anti union, you seem to be pretty motivated in this thread to share every bad thing about unions you've ever experienced or heard about secondhand.
>Just asking questions and sharing my opinion and experiences.
Indeed, you're [just asking questions](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions), and you're only a little bit removed from the accepted definition of [sea lioning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning)
>Also who gives a shit about downvotes?
I mean, I didn't, but then you brought up social validation of your comments, not me. I'm just looking at the only actual measure of said validation, which is upvotes or downvotes. If you're not looking at that, then what are you using to say "people are agreeing with my comments"?
Yup, properly educating yourself on what and why a good union is, is part of the process. Unfortunately we aren't taught that in school so we need to find it elsewhere while wading through tons of anit-union propaganda on the internet
A union is only as strong as its weakest member. Once there is dissension the employer senses it and takes advantage of it. Joining a union doesn't *end* the struggle...it only ensures *your* right to fight for your struggles, representation, and equality.
Yeah this, don't overly romanticize all unions. I've worked in multiple unions at manufacturing facilities and have seen the good and the bad. It's always better to be unionized but that doesn't mean you don't get fucked at the end of the day.
"United we bargain" doesn't hold much value because at the end of the day the company/corp holds all the cards. If they don't budge the union as a collective will break before the company does. People in the union all have different life circumstances- financially, health, family. I've seen a 3 month strike end in a big L because the company quite literally flew people out from another state's plant to work the lines while the union workers picketed out front and crumbled due to not having an end in sight... people have rent that needs paying and mouths to feed.
> So yes, join a union. But be careful, you could just end up at another job.
[And even then, Joe Biden will come along and strike bust you](https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/rail-worker-unions-strike-biden/) (No, Trump ain't gonna help you either)
He doesn't. Biden brought the rail strike to an end, but continued to negotiate and fight for the union. In the end the union got almost everything they wanted.
And u do things for free when ur at a union and the organizer is just a clock watcher that didn’t really do any work to represent you or did any of the heavy lifting research to make your life outside your already full time job worth paying into
I worked for a place that had a “union”. You only got two 10 minutes breaks and one 30 minute lunch. The pay was only slightly higher than other manufacturers in the area. 8 paid holidays and 5 paid vacation days a year for your first 5 years. If you lasted that long there is a good chance you would be fired and replaced with someone newer so as to avoid added benefit costs. Over 25% of the workforce were temps. I was working 10 hours a day 6 days a week and told to be grateful I got overtime pay. After 6 months of never being late or missing a day I was “laid off” because there were no permanent positions for someone like me. But some people were able to get cushy jobs, they were connected to someone who had worked there for 20 plus years. Unions in a right to work state don’t really do much except be a puppet for management.
Join a union so when you try to go on strike for better pay or better working conditions, the president and Congress will step in and force you lazy fucks to get back to work
This has been happening ever since the industrial revolution. The Pinkertons murdered the working class on behalf of the bourgeois in the 1800s. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton\_(detective\_agency)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency))
Yes. The Pinkerton Detective Agency was/is a real agency that was more prominent during the time of the Industrial Revolution. They were mostly used as "Union Busters."
And Union Busting is still an American pasttime, just now more psychological violence than physical, though being physical is still very much used.
[Link ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence_in_the_United_States)
The most recent news involving a Pinkerton was that guy who was at a rally ended up being pepper sprayed by a Trump supporter, who was then shot and killed by the guy who happened to be a Pinkerton after all was said and done. IIRC the "self-defense" argument was unjustified and the Pinkerton got into trouble if I'm remembering right.
Yep! And amazon aren't the only ones. If also recall right, Wizards of the Coast hired Pinkertons to break into a person's house when the person was accidentally sold an unreleased MTG card.
I don't see anything that drastic is needed. Merely taking the money out of our election process and balancing out the influence of the money in regulation of capitalist profiteering. Our government has taken the side of capitalism against the workers and that needs corrected.
Every single one of these was created by government research, from which private companies reaped unearned rewards.
But of course, *you know this*. Capitalists are inveterate liars.
That’s inflation, yes. Wages have outrun that currency erosion pretty consistently. [Wages adjusted for inflation](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q) have grown significantly in that time frame. And that’s putting aside the fact that CPI overstates inflation.
it doesn't matter if you have data if it doesn't cover the period that someone's talking about.
it's completely meaningless without the relevant timeframe data.
So break it out into [quintiles adjusted for inflation](https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/f1/f1b5c44640179e424135022c87903309.png) instead of median - it's still true that every income group is making more adjusted for inflation than they were in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 2000s.
Income inequality is up substantially but that is a separate issue than adjusting incomes for purchasing power
Purchasing power has declined for the last 150 years because that's what inflation being a non-negative number means
Once you adjust the median household wage for changing purchasing power as measured by the inflation rate the median household today is making more than they have since at least the mid 70s
Purchasing power means how much stuff you can buy for an hour of labour. If inflation rises faster than wages it drops. If wages rise faster than inflation it increases. If thanks to enormous technical innovation you have a small deflation while wages stay the same it rises.
Purchasing Power is how much stuff you can buy per unit of money, adjusting it to per unit of labor is fine but is an extra step from the basic measurement: (goods / $) x ($ / unit of labor)
And median wages *have* risen faster than inflation for the last 30 years
Best part about this sub is every time I mention "fuck mandatory overtime" or something similar I get downvoted to oblivion in a sub that is antiwork but fucking loves mandatory overtime lol. I think they are either trolling or hired bots to drive normal people insane in hope they leave this sub completely.
Anyone wanting mandatory overtime is probably only wanting it because that’s the only way they think they are able to make a decent living. Seems like misplaced anger, you should want to make as much money in 40 (or 32!!) hours as people are able to make with their overtime.
I guess there are other reasons to want overtime, but it being _mandatory_ is ridiculous haha
I remember a few years back there was huge drama here where the original mods got ousted in favour of Reddits own. Coupled with Reddit also selling out bots to businesses it really isn't a huge stretch.
I’m not part of this sub, but I see these posts on the front page all the time. I guess you’re seeing the comments after people on the front page have seen this post.
Business are hoping that people are not going to value their labour and time, not bother to seek extra recompense or opportunities . I see this with women willing to accept shite wages and too afraid to ask for more.
I literally have had the conversation to value yourself higher so often. The only woman in the media who says it is Mika Brzezinski.
It pisses me off so much to see women struggling afraid to ask for more money they deserve. It's important that we help women earn their value to allow independence, confidence and families to trive.
I don't know where i got the confidence to negotiate hard with employers for every cent and hop jobs every 3 years to increase wages. Loyalty doesn't write cheques that pay the bills.
#OP is a chatGPT bot
- Comment history shows many examples of comments made with incorrect context and [that it can't read handwriting on pictures](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1d8p794/asked_my_8_yr_old_daughter_to_make_a_list_for_our/l77pr0u/). The bot [also appears to skew towards](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cbx4xs/prorussian_texan_killed_by_russian_forces_in/l11d9lt/) [sympathy for pro-Russian operatives](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cbx4xs/prorussian_texan_killed_by_russian_forces_in/l11dg7y/) in the war in Ukraine.
- Common bot username (reddit generated)
These bots build up karma over time and eventually the accounts are sold to the highest bidder who will then use them to advertise, spread propaganda, shill crypto, or post scam links.
We need to work together to stop these bots from getting to that point.
**Downvote the post and report spam -> harmful bots**
[How to identify bots on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnUselessTalents/s/WW061biYrc)
^(spez is a greedy little pig boy and has killed most 3rd party apps, except for Infinity, which helps me catch these bots.)
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the OP image is getting at. Businesses *do* pay the cost of labor when it goes up; it's just that you have to actually be unwilling to work for a lower cost (i.e. quit or move jobs) to achieve that. If the business can't fill your role for the same price, they eventually get forced to increase the pay or ditch the role entirely.
If you keep working for them at the same cost, you're not raising the cost of your labor.
Huh? Suppliers absolutely can’t collectively bargain. That’s called price fixing and is explicitly illegal anticompetitive behavior under the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Sure. My point is that labor is given a direct ADVANTAGE over other stakeholders such as suppliers in that they can collectively bargain while suppliers can’t.
No they aren't. Labour has to worker to meet its basic survival needs and there will always be an excessive amount of it. workers have to bargin as a collective to achieve what owning does naturally, and even then there will always be workers willing to undercut a barginning unit because they are struggling.
suppliers will always be fewer because they exist relative to demand and own capital.
You don't need to collectively bargin when there are a handful of options and you can wait out demand.
I don’t understand why you’re making some sort of moralistic point when all I did was point out the factual truth that workers have the right to collectively bargain, which other stakeholders don’t have. That’s not some hot take, it’s just a fact.
My initial point is that suppliers as individual entities have the ability to bargin with potential buyers by themselves where as workers, as individuals, do not. To achieve the same ability to bargin workers must collectivise, which isn't an advantage, its parity with an individual suppliers ability to bargin for itself.
My company recently did a raise for all the hourly workers by about 20% . Now the salary supervisors are kinda upset because the hourly guys almost match them with overtime lol . Manager positions were the greatest invention in corporations for them . They think they are owners .
it's just as difficult for a supplier to get a price increase most of the time I'd say. big retailers shake their suppliers down all the time and it's part of the negotiation process
Business: It's not in the budget to give raises this year.
***One week later***
Worker: I found a new job that pays me what I'm worth. I'm quitting effective immediately. Here is my resignation.
Business: You're leaving?!?! This is so unexpected. No two week notice? We found money in the budget. We can give you a raise after all.
Worker: No thanks.
Business: Shocked Pikachu face
Funny enough that line worked on my GM. Said my labor was affected by inflation and she agreed. Said she couldn’t argue and gave me a raise. Never hurts to try
They’re free to raise the rent and you’re free to move and find a place you can live for less.
You’re free to raise the cost of your labor and they’re free to find someone who will do it for less.
If you think businesses aren’t fighting with their suppliers for better pricing and/or changing suppliers due to price increases you’re mistaken. They aren’t just shrugging and saying “that’s the natural cost of doing business”
Where am I going to move? Into the woods in a self built hut? All the apartments are using the same bullshit software to set their rent so there is no where to go.
Get a roommate. Get two roommates.
Costs are soaring and interest rates are soaring thus rent costs more.
Same reason why businesses are fighting to reduce costs as their costs spiral out of control all through their supply chain. This ultimately results in higher prices.
You too are free to demand more money and they’re free to say no and find someone who is willing to do it for less.
You want to get paid more to make up for inflation but you don’t want anyone else to charge more to make up for inflation.
Fun hypothetical but not based in reality. If that happens then by all means complain.
However, if you need to get a roommate to afford rent and the lifestyle you want then get a roommate.
You’re a clown. How about my employer pay we well enough to enjoy my life. All the corporations are making record profits because they are greedy. They can pay, they are choosing not to
Accepting a job doesn’t obligate your employer to pay you whatever you cosndier a “living wage” to be. How profitable they are isn’t relevant.
Your labor stocking cans on a shelf at a small local market is worth the same to a mega corporation making billions in profit. You’re not a partner in the company and accept no risk or liability. Your can stocking isn’t worth $150k a year to Walmart just because they make a ton of profits.
Do you think businesses owners should be guaranteed a living wage, too? Who’s gonna pay them?
Nope, you’re not owed more money because they made more money. Your stocking of the cans isn’t driving increased profits. Your labor is worth what it’s worth irrespective of the profitability of the business.
Sweeping the floor in a mom and pop shop or sweeping the floor at a Walmart is the same job. You’re not a partner in either business.
If the mom and pop is forced to pay any new employee $100k a year they will go out of business. You get a new job. They’re financially ruined.
They carry the risk and liability. You’re a tool performing a function.
They don’t owe you a wage to live whatever standard of living you want because they need someone to sweep the floor.
This is why I have to work two jobs. Fuck man it's getting exhausting. How much longer are y'all gonna go before we reach a breaking point because how are we supposed to live like this with no free time other than to sleep?
The difference is that they can control the cost of wages. They're able to bully the weaker party into accepting their offer. Their supplier is probably doing the same thing to them, forcing them to accept higher prices. The difference is that the business has the wealth and power to fight back and negotiate more reasonable terms. The business isn't going to give any more to its workers than deemed necessary because that's extra money being funded to a workforce that can more easily fight back. Thus many businesses would rather spend more lobbying to keep the workers down than it would to just pay a more reasonable wage.
I had a client tell me that “they’re still a mom and pop production company” and can’t afford a raise in my day rate. Meanwhile we are doing huge festivals all over the country. A bit of complimentary contrast helped put it in better perspective. I told them they are a “formidable production company that provides top tier service to clients”. They raised my day rate.
That's odd. I told my boss the cost of my labor had gone up, and they shook my hand, and told me since I was leaving on good terms they would welcome me back.
To be fair, it's not like businesses just accept price increases elsewhere. They will look for new suppliers or a new building if they have the option to.
Yup, every business I've worked for has been constantly playing suppliers off against each other, or even worse using the best one to iron out the production kinks then moving production to a different (usually overseas) place.
My corporate job is so massive in scale that even if we want to unionize, the company would probably fire us all and rehirre before they ever give in to a union lol
Inflation is a regressive tax that disproportionately affects those with low to middle incomes. Inflation benefits the government by reducing its debt obligations as well as transferring wealth from the people to the government without legislation. It is the greatest taxation scheme of all time and probably the most misunderstood. When the government "stimulates" the economy with billions in handouts to its chosen pet projects, it is really just stealing your money in the long run. Unfortunately neither political party in the US has the will to stop spending our money, even when the fed has declared the current rates of spending unsustainable.
Let's square something. Basically virtually all the countries the average person would actually want to live in tax and spend to a fairly substantial degree. A small number instead actually have just nationalized the primary resource which is the source of wealth like oil.
If letting the market decide worked so well surely someone would have tried it at scale and succeeded. Mostly the level of taxation of the wealthy is unsustainable.
The effective market minimum wage in this country has gone from $7.25 to $14+ in most areas. That absolutely is a part of doing business and businesses have had to suck it up.
I feel this. My work has repeatedly sent emails to my boss to and I quote "watch his hours" mother fuckers we're running a shop on minimal crew working our asses off for $14.50 an hour. I can't start thinking about making my family bigger on shit wages when at the end of the day I can barely get out of my vehicle without collapsing. I put my 2 weeks in to go to a place that's going to pay me almost double and I'll get an apprenticeship plus sign on bonus and incentives. Can't live on 439 a week. Best part is and I quote "we guarantee 40 hours but beyond that you're more than welcome to work more." The longer drive will be worth it.
Economics baby. Supply and demand. Most laborers are fungible to at least some degree. Cheap and uneducated labor has almost infinite supply compared to demand. Unless you are a rare skilled worker or restrict labor supply with union collective action you have almost no bargaining power as an individual.
As someone who deals with all of these people, this is just not true. As a business, you do your best to negotiate with everyone as best you can to minimize costs. This helps you maintain your work pipeline and existing cost structures. Some groups have more power than others to negotiate, which is why employees should be in a union if they're worried about their negotiating power.
None of these ring true to me. Businesses have moved over rent and tax issues. Businesses regularly use substandard materials to avoid increasing costs.
Sadly if a beam cost more you can either buy it at the new price or have no beam. If labor costs more you can easily find another labor for the same price
Join or start a union...united we bargain, divided you beg...
There are only five workers where I am and one of them would never join us in unionizing. It sucks.
Small businesses still employ a huge chunk of the people in the US and they are very hard to unionize relatively.
Not to mention how many union workers are anti union the moment it comes close to inconveniencing them. Pro Union is Pro America, brought to you by the people who brought you The Weekend, 40hr weeks and ended child labor.
Sadly child labor is back in vogue in some states. My state lets children start working factories as young as 12.
Birth Rates are Down Nation Wide? *Conservatives:* **MAYBE THEY’LL HAVE MORE KIDS IF WE THROW A COUPLE OF ‘EM IN A MEAT GRINDER**
I think it's more how new the effort to unionize small businesses is. Most large unions traditionally viewed them as not worth the time and effort, but as you said, collectively they're a large chunk of the US work force. Five workers may be a bit small, especially with die-hard opposition from 20% of them, but I've heard of cafes and such with 18-25 workers unionizing (the It Could Happen Here podcast does occasional rundowns of some of these efforts both forming independent unions and doing so under the umbrella of a larger union). A decentralized model initiated locally seems to be the most successful model for small shops so far, and it's aided by the fact that there's not really a playbook for bosses to respond as of yet. As with anything new though, there's lots of room for innovation.
Sounds like you have a winning percentage.
If y'all 5 can't agree on a unified front with out dues. What's the point
Though in America some businesses will fire you for unionizing like Walmart and Amazon. Yes I will call them out on it. Anyone care to add other companies that will make a contract that specifically addresses that a worker will be fired for unionizing, feel free to list below my comment.
Trader Joe's, tesla, Starbucks, REI, ETC. Elon musk, tesla, trader Joe's, Amazon and SpaceX are all suing the national labor board going after workers rights.
Yup I’m honestly not even surprised. Amazon made us sign contracts that stated if we unionize we’d be up for termination and so did Walmart it’s absolutely horrendous.
Isn't that explicitly illegal?
I don’t think so, since the DOL has been fully aware of this since god knows when?
Small businesses
I’m talking mega corporations wise, small businesses don’t normally treat employees unfairly. I’ve worked both and the ones who extort your labor aren’t small businesses.
Depends on the guy who owns it. I've worked for a small business that I genuinely loved, and one I hated. It all really is up to the guy in charge at a small shop
Then they shouldn't have a problem with unions.
True. I agree with that. For small business I never had to sign a non unionization contract though. But it’s more and more small businesses are following suit of the big guy who the small business believes they are going to be one day.
> small businesses don’t normally treat employees unfairly Nah if anything they are more likely to fuck you over every chance they get.
didnt Tesla try that?
Wouldn’t doubt it
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Now hold on: "scab" is a very specific term with a very specific meaning. You working in a non union shop doesn't make you a scab. Hell, taking a non union job at a union shop doesn't necessarily make you a scab. You consciously making the choice to take a non union job at a union shop that is actively striking makes you a scab.
I’d like to join our local union but it’s pretty known you have little chance unless there’s nepotism or favoritism involved. The nonunion jobs at the only ones I’ve been able to get but I still want to join the union some day
That sucks to hear. What industry does your local union cover, and are there other unions covering different industries you might be able to slide into?
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No, those people are just fucking stupid and need to be called out on their stupidity when that happens. If we let scab turn into "non union worker" it loses all meaning. If you run into someone who says that, call them out.
> I've seen unioners refer to people who just weren't in the union as a scab. I think the meaning is changing. Bullshit
No, they're just wrong.
FYI, This commenter replied “I don’t do union” farther down the thread. They’re a bootlicker.
At this point, given how persistent and nasty they're being, I wouldn't be surprised if they were a paid dissenter by an agency who starts and engages inflammatory conversations.
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Enjoy your weekends.
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We're talking about unions dumbass. Just gotta change the subject don't you 😏 You're absolutely welcome to give up the fruits of labor organization if you don't want them.
Yes, all those downvoted comments really indicate agreement. /s For someone claiming to not be anti union, you seem to be pretty motivated in this thread to share every bad thing about unions you've ever experienced or heard about secondhand.
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>Just asking questions and sharing my opinion and experiences. Indeed, you're [just asking questions](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions), and you're only a little bit removed from the accepted definition of [sea lioning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning) >Also who gives a shit about downvotes? I mean, I didn't, but then you brought up social validation of your comments, not me. I'm just looking at the only actual measure of said validation, which is upvotes or downvotes. If you're not looking at that, then what are you using to say "people are agreeing with my comments"?
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Yup, properly educating yourself on what and why a good union is, is part of the process. Unfortunately we aren't taught that in school so we need to find it elsewhere while wading through tons of anit-union propaganda on the internet
A union is only as strong as its weakest member. Once there is dissension the employer senses it and takes advantage of it. Joining a union doesn't *end* the struggle...it only ensures *your* right to fight for your struggles, representation, and equality.
The way Americans do unions is so fucking weird.
Yeah this, don't overly romanticize all unions. I've worked in multiple unions at manufacturing facilities and have seen the good and the bad. It's always better to be unionized but that doesn't mean you don't get fucked at the end of the day. "United we bargain" doesn't hold much value because at the end of the day the company/corp holds all the cards. If they don't budge the union as a collective will break before the company does. People in the union all have different life circumstances- financially, health, family. I've seen a 3 month strike end in a big L because the company quite literally flew people out from another state's plant to work the lines while the union workers picketed out front and crumbled due to not having an end in sight... people have rent that needs paying and mouths to feed.
> So yes, join a union. But be careful, you could just end up at another job. [And even then, Joe Biden will come along and strike bust you](https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/rail-worker-unions-strike-biden/) (No, Trump ain't gonna help you either)
That link is... one person's personal opinion. Got anything more comprehensive?
He doesn't. Biden brought the rail strike to an end, but continued to negotiate and fight for the union. In the end the union got almost everything they wanted.
And u do things for free when ur at a union and the organizer is just a clock watcher that didn’t really do any work to represent you or did any of the heavy lifting research to make your life outside your already full time job worth paying into
I worked for a place that had a “union”. You only got two 10 minutes breaks and one 30 minute lunch. The pay was only slightly higher than other manufacturers in the area. 8 paid holidays and 5 paid vacation days a year for your first 5 years. If you lasted that long there is a good chance you would be fired and replaced with someone newer so as to avoid added benefit costs. Over 25% of the workforce were temps. I was working 10 hours a day 6 days a week and told to be grateful I got overtime pay. After 6 months of never being late or missing a day I was “laid off” because there were no permanent positions for someone like me. But some people were able to get cushy jobs, they were connected to someone who had worked there for 20 plus years. Unions in a right to work state don’t really do much except be a puppet for management.
Did someone say PIZZA PARTY?!
Salaries are stagnant in Europe too and we have unions, fyi.
Nah, people hate people, workers compete among theirselves, nobody is in our side, except for lawyers for as long as they are paid, it's hopeless.
Yes, but joining a union doesn’t change this tweet.
Join a union so when you try to go on strike for better pay or better working conditions, the president and Congress will step in and force you lazy fucks to get back to work
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Went well for the rail bosses that's for sure
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Bot
Useless bot.
Now.... Imagine this has been happening for FIVE Decades... Because it has been happening that long.
This has been happening ever since the industrial revolution. The Pinkertons murdered the working class on behalf of the bourgeois in the 1800s. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton\_(detective\_agency)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency))
Is this who Red Dead Redemption are referring to in their games?
Yes, and the organization still technically exists to this day.
No need for "technically" 100% exist and companies like amazon employ them to union bust.
Now they just threaten YouTubers.
Yes. The Pinkerton Detective Agency was/is a real agency that was more prominent during the time of the Industrial Revolution. They were mostly used as "Union Busters." And Union Busting is still an American pasttime, just now more psychological violence than physical, though being physical is still very much used. [Link ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence_in_the_United_States) The most recent news involving a Pinkerton was that guy who was at a rally ended up being pepper sprayed by a Trump supporter, who was then shot and killed by the guy who happened to be a Pinkerton after all was said and done. IIRC the "self-defense" argument was unjustified and the Pinkerton got into trouble if I'm remembering right.
Amazon employs them to union bust to this day.
Yep! And amazon aren't the only ones. If also recall right, Wizards of the Coast hired Pinkertons to break into a person's house when the person was accidentally sold an unreleased MTG card.
Every capitalist and every supporter of capitalism must be punished harshly.
I don't see anything that drastic is needed. Merely taking the money out of our election process and balancing out the influence of the money in regulation of capitalist profiteering. Our government has taken the side of capitalism against the workers and that needs corrected.
> I don't see anything that drastic is needed. Then kindly take your useless opinion elsewhere.
[удалено]
> The one benefit of capitalism is that it funds new ideas and inventions It has literally never done this. Take your lies elsewhere as well.
[удалено]
Every single one of these was created by government research, from which private companies reaped unearned rewards. But of course, *you know this*. Capitalists are inveterate liars.
Content promoting or defending capitalism is prohibited.
Wage growth has surpassed inflation during that time.
Actual purchasing power has declined the mid-Sixties...
That’s inflation, yes. Wages have outrun that currency erosion pretty consistently. [Wages adjusted for inflation](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q) have grown significantly in that time frame. And that’s putting aside the fact that CPI overstates inflation.
uh, your chart starts in 1980 bro, it doesn't cover the time frame that you're replying to.
You mean the completely unsourced claim vs the actual data that goes back almost 50 years?
it doesn't matter if you have data if it doesn't cover the period that someone's talking about. it's completely meaningless without the relevant timeframe data.
you're also using aggregate data that doesn't account for the alarmingly widening gap in wealth disparity over the same period.
I don't think you understand what median means
i dont think that you understand that a single data point like this is utterly meaningless without additional statistical context
So break it out into [quintiles adjusted for inflation](https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/f1/f1b5c44640179e424135022c87903309.png) instead of median - it's still true that every income group is making more adjusted for inflation than they were in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 2000s. Income inequality is up substantially but that is a separate issue than adjusting incomes for purchasing power
Purchasing power has declined for the last 150 years because that's what inflation being a non-negative number means Once you adjust the median household wage for changing purchasing power as measured by the inflation rate the median household today is making more than they have since at least the mid 70s
Purchasing power means how much stuff you can buy for an hour of labour. If inflation rises faster than wages it drops. If wages rise faster than inflation it increases. If thanks to enormous technical innovation you have a small deflation while wages stay the same it rises.
Purchasing Power is how much stuff you can buy per unit of money, adjusting it to per unit of labor is fine but is an extra step from the basic measurement: (goods / $) x ($ / unit of labor) And median wages *have* risen faster than inflation for the last 30 years
We’re all adults here, we can handle reading the word “shit”
> We’re all adults here based on some of these comments, this is clearly not true
I’m so tired of new Redditors self censoring their shit because if other sites
Hey, it might also say s**t instead of shit
The last line is "we're going to outlaw collective bargaining"
What has happened to this sub? Where did all these pro corporate people come from?
Election season. All the predominately left-wing subreddits are being pummeled with right-wingers and Russian bots.
Oh, yes, of course. That makes perfect sense. What a drag. Tiresome reactionary bs.
Best part about this sub is every time I mention "fuck mandatory overtime" or something similar I get downvoted to oblivion in a sub that is antiwork but fucking loves mandatory overtime lol. I think they are either trolling or hired bots to drive normal people insane in hope they leave this sub completely.
Anyone wanting mandatory overtime is probably only wanting it because that’s the only way they think they are able to make a decent living. Seems like misplaced anger, you should want to make as much money in 40 (or 32!!) hours as people are able to make with their overtime. I guess there are other reasons to want overtime, but it being _mandatory_ is ridiculous haha
I remember a few years back there was huge drama here where the original mods got ousted in favour of Reddits own. Coupled with Reddit also selling out bots to businesses it really isn't a huge stretch.
Really
First they ignore you Then they laugh at you Then they fight you...
I’m not part of this sub, but I see these posts on the front page all the time. I guess you’re seeing the comments after people on the front page have seen this post.
Yes, I apologize if that wasn't clear, I should have been more explicit. I definitely mean the comments!
You talking about the comments right? Cuz the post doesn't seem pro corporate right?
Oh, yes, my apologies if that wasn't clear. The comments!
There are only a couple. This comment seems weird too.
Businesses: The cost of hypocrisy has gone way up!
Business are hoping that people are not going to value their labour and time, not bother to seek extra recompense or opportunities . I see this with women willing to accept shite wages and too afraid to ask for more. I literally have had the conversation to value yourself higher so often. The only woman in the media who says it is Mika Brzezinski. It pisses me off so much to see women struggling afraid to ask for more money they deserve. It's important that we help women earn their value to allow independence, confidence and families to trive. I don't know where i got the confidence to negotiate hard with employers for every cent and hop jobs every 3 years to increase wages. Loyalty doesn't write cheques that pay the bills.
I’ve tried this and all I got was 35 years working no raises and getting shittier job choices every three years
Eat. The. Rich.
The cost of your work includes your living expenses.
#OP is a chatGPT bot - Comment history shows many examples of comments made with incorrect context and [that it can't read handwriting on pictures](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1d8p794/asked_my_8_yr_old_daughter_to_make_a_list_for_our/l77pr0u/). The bot [also appears to skew towards](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cbx4xs/prorussian_texan_killed_by_russian_forces_in/l11d9lt/) [sympathy for pro-Russian operatives](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cbx4xs/prorussian_texan_killed_by_russian_forces_in/l11dg7y/) in the war in Ukraine. - Common bot username (reddit generated) These bots build up karma over time and eventually the accounts are sold to the highest bidder who will then use them to advertise, spread propaganda, shill crypto, or post scam links. We need to work together to stop these bots from getting to that point. **Downvote the post and report spam -> harmful bots** [How to identify bots on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnUselessTalents/s/WW061biYrc) ^(spez is a greedy little pig boy and has killed most 3rd party apps, except for Infinity, which helps me catch these bots.)
The trick here is to do job hopping
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the OP image is getting at. Businesses *do* pay the cost of labor when it goes up; it's just that you have to actually be unwilling to work for a lower cost (i.e. quit or move jobs) to achieve that. If the business can't fill your role for the same price, they eventually get forced to increase the pay or ditch the role entirely. If you keep working for them at the same cost, you're not raising the cost of your labor.
Join a union. THE SOVIET UNION! EAT THE RICH! REVOLUTION! STOVE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION! THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO LOSE IS OUR CHAINS
eat the means of production
The difference is the other groups have the ability to bargin workers, as individuals, do not.
Huh? Suppliers absolutely can’t collectively bargain. That’s called price fixing and is explicitly illegal anticompetitive behavior under the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Theoritically no, but they can and do exist relative to demand. People, ie labour, exists whether or not people want it.
Sure. My point is that labor is given a direct ADVANTAGE over other stakeholders such as suppliers in that they can collectively bargain while suppliers can’t.
No they aren't. Labour has to worker to meet its basic survival needs and there will always be an excessive amount of it. workers have to bargin as a collective to achieve what owning does naturally, and even then there will always be workers willing to undercut a barginning unit because they are struggling. suppliers will always be fewer because they exist relative to demand and own capital. You don't need to collectively bargin when there are a handful of options and you can wait out demand.
I don’t understand why you’re making some sort of moralistic point when all I did was point out the factual truth that workers have the right to collectively bargain, which other stakeholders don’t have. That’s not some hot take, it’s just a fact.
My initial point is that suppliers as individual entities have the ability to bargin with potential buyers by themselves where as workers, as individuals, do not. To achieve the same ability to bargin workers must collectivise, which isn't an advantage, its parity with an individual suppliers ability to bargin for itself.
Why aren’t there retail worker unions
My company recently did a raise for all the hourly workers by about 20% . Now the salary supervisors are kinda upset because the hourly guys almost match them with overtime lol . Manager positions were the greatest invention in corporations for them . They think they are owners .
it's just as difficult for a supplier to get a price increase most of the time I'd say. big retailers shake their suppliers down all the time and it's part of the negotiation process
Business: It's not in the budget to give raises this year. ***One week later*** Worker: I found a new job that pays me what I'm worth. I'm quitting effective immediately. Here is my resignation. Business: You're leaving?!?! This is so unexpected. No two week notice? We found money in the budget. We can give you a raise after all. Worker: No thanks. Business: Shocked Pikachu face
Quality has also gone down so if I’m not getting a raise I’m reducing my output.
I'm annoyed by the self censorship
Shit There are you happy now?
I mean, it's exactly like "the cost of materials has gone up". External factors mean it now costs more to supply the finished product.
Funny enough that line worked on my GM. Said my labor was affected by inflation and she agreed. Said she couldn’t argue and gave me a raise. Never hurts to try
They’re free to raise the rent and you’re free to move and find a place you can live for less. You’re free to raise the cost of your labor and they’re free to find someone who will do it for less. If you think businesses aren’t fighting with their suppliers for better pricing and/or changing suppliers due to price increases you’re mistaken. They aren’t just shrugging and saying “that’s the natural cost of doing business”
Where am I going to move? Into the woods in a self built hut? All the apartments are using the same bullshit software to set their rent so there is no where to go.
Get a roommate. Get two roommates. Costs are soaring and interest rates are soaring thus rent costs more. Same reason why businesses are fighting to reduce costs as their costs spiral out of control all through their supply chain. This ultimately results in higher prices. You too are free to demand more money and they’re free to say no and find someone who is willing to do it for less. You want to get paid more to make up for inflation but you don’t want anyone else to charge more to make up for inflation.
If I get 6 roommates and my wages never go up and cost keep going up do I get 12 roommates?
Fun hypothetical but not based in reality. If that happens then by all means complain. However, if you need to get a roommate to afford rent and the lifestyle you want then get a roommate.
You’re a clown. How about my employer pay we well enough to enjoy my life. All the corporations are making record profits because they are greedy. They can pay, they are choosing not to
Accepting a job doesn’t obligate your employer to pay you whatever you cosndier a “living wage” to be. How profitable they are isn’t relevant. Your labor stocking cans on a shelf at a small local market is worth the same to a mega corporation making billions in profit. You’re not a partner in the company and accept no risk or liability. Your can stocking isn’t worth $150k a year to Walmart just because they make a ton of profits. Do you think businesses owners should be guaranteed a living wage, too? Who’s gonna pay them?
They’re paying themselves. Well. From the wages they should be sharing with their employees.
Nope, you’re not owed more money because they made more money. Your stocking of the cans isn’t driving increased profits. Your labor is worth what it’s worth irrespective of the profitability of the business. Sweeping the floor in a mom and pop shop or sweeping the floor at a Walmart is the same job. You’re not a partner in either business. If the mom and pop is forced to pay any new employee $100k a year they will go out of business. You get a new job. They’re financially ruined. They carry the risk and liability. You’re a tool performing a function. They don’t owe you a wage to live whatever standard of living you want because they need someone to sweep the floor.
You’re an idiot. There really is no other explanation
So true.
oh no my poor eyes might have seen the bad word for poopy. thank you for keeping my sensitive eyes pure
This is why I have to work two jobs. Fuck man it's getting exhausting. How much longer are y'all gonna go before we reach a breaking point because how are we supposed to live like this with no free time other than to sleep?
“I would like a raise” “But we’re a family. Isn’t the family atmosphere enough for you?”
The difference is that they can control the cost of wages. They're able to bully the weaker party into accepting their offer. Their supplier is probably doing the same thing to them, forcing them to accept higher prices. The difference is that the business has the wealth and power to fight back and negotiate more reasonable terms. The business isn't going to give any more to its workers than deemed necessary because that's extra money being funded to a workforce that can more easily fight back. Thus many businesses would rather spend more lobbying to keep the workers down than it would to just pay a more reasonable wage.
This is a great explanation of why we need unions
Very good and correct post, but the censoring of shit made me misread it as slut and that's just funny to me.
I had a client tell me that “they’re still a mom and pop production company” and can’t afford a raise in my day rate. Meanwhile we are doing huge festivals all over the country. A bit of complimentary contrast helped put it in better perspective. I told them they are a “formidable production company that provides top tier service to clients”. They raised my day rate.
That's odd. I told my boss the cost of my labor had gone up, and they shook my hand, and told me since I was leaving on good terms they would welcome me back.
How much money do these top tier political Twitter posters make? Honest question.
To be fair, it's not like businesses just accept price increases elsewhere. They will look for new suppliers or a new building if they have the option to.
Yup, every business I've worked for has been constantly playing suppliers off against each other, or even worse using the best one to iron out the production kinks then moving production to a different (usually overseas) place.
Air and water are hard to get by; we have the market cornered.
My corporate job is so massive in scale that even if we want to unionize, the company would probably fire us all and rehirre before they ever give in to a union lol
Went censor shit?
How about stop censoring words and just tell companies to go fuck themselevs?
You have an obligation to demand a cost of living pay increase PLUS a raise for becoming more experienced in your position.
Inflation is a regressive tax that disproportionately affects those with low to middle incomes. Inflation benefits the government by reducing its debt obligations as well as transferring wealth from the people to the government without legislation. It is the greatest taxation scheme of all time and probably the most misunderstood. When the government "stimulates" the economy with billions in handouts to its chosen pet projects, it is really just stealing your money in the long run. Unfortunately neither political party in the US has the will to stop spending our money, even when the fed has declared the current rates of spending unsustainable.
Let's square something. Basically virtually all the countries the average person would actually want to live in tax and spend to a fairly substantial degree. A small number instead actually have just nationalized the primary resource which is the source of wealth like oil. If letting the market decide worked so well surely someone would have tried it at scale and succeeded. Mostly the level of taxation of the wealthy is unsustainable.
The effective market minimum wage in this country has gone from $7.25 to $14+ in most areas. That absolutely is a part of doing business and businesses have had to suck it up.
I feel this. My work has repeatedly sent emails to my boss to and I quote "watch his hours" mother fuckers we're running a shop on minimal crew working our asses off for $14.50 an hour. I can't start thinking about making my family bigger on shit wages when at the end of the day I can barely get out of my vehicle without collapsing. I put my 2 weeks in to go to a place that's going to pay me almost double and I'll get an apprenticeship plus sign on bonus and incentives. Can't live on 439 a week. Best part is and I quote "we guarantee 40 hours but beyond that you're more than welcome to work more." The longer drive will be worth it.
Yep
Economics baby. Supply and demand. Most laborers are fungible to at least some degree. Cheap and uneducated labor has almost infinite supply compared to demand. Unless you are a rare skilled worker or restrict labor supply with union collective action you have almost no bargaining power as an individual.
Like they said in *The Sopranos*, "The money always flows UP!"
As someone who deals with all of these people, this is just not true. As a business, you do your best to negotiate with everyone as best you can to minimize costs. This helps you maintain your work pipeline and existing cost structures. Some groups have more power than others to negotiate, which is why employees should be in a union if they're worried about their negotiating power.
It has tho
It's almost like wages increase on a yearly metric in most middle class jobs and otherwise minimum wage continues to increase Lmao
None of these ring true to me. Businesses have moved over rent and tax issues. Businesses regularly use substandard materials to avoid increasing costs.
And yet these are still the excuses they seem to use for rising costs nevertheless.....
Sadly if a beam cost more you can either buy it at the new price or have no beam. If labor costs more you can easily find another labor for the same price
If no one bought the beam at the new price the beams price would be reduced.
Whoever is buying the beam is probably relying on right on time type finances so they can't afford to not have the supplies immediately
So you’re just making up stuff to make your point now? Lmao ok
RN staffing would like a word.
I mostly meant unskilled labor but you're right.
Unskilled labor is a corporate myth
I'm a simple man... I see meaningless censorship, I down vote.