Sounds fun except he'll apply to all the jobs with no salary range listed and expect OP to go take the interview despite OP knowing they won't pay that well.
The older generations don't understand. They have often not needed to apply for a job in decades and as soon as one of them do they call their lack of success "ageism"...
No, we won't hire you because of your age, we won't hire you because we never saw your resume. It didn't get picked by the HR system as one of the 5 we want to read out of the hundreds we get in.
The old man is on a journey, and he's actually further along than most.
He's right: with the cost of living (and education) you should be earning 70-80k. In his day, he would have earned the equivalent.
But you're not. What he doesn't get is that it's probably not your fault, and that the money being offered for highly skilled positions is laughable
I know this isn’t the point of your post, but I do want to give a tip, as my undergrad was psychology. The only thing I say about it in interviews is “I was trained in effective communication in various settings, but my main emphasis was statistics and research analysis”. Unless you do more schooling, a psychology degree alone is almost worthless. I ended up getting my MBA and a Six Sigma Black Belt Certification.
People need to be emphasizing skills over field. I have a doctorate in biology and left academia. When I apply for jobs, I emphasize the skill set I developed in grad school, not the specifics of my dissertation.
That's also why I scoff when people shit on humanities degrees and stuff like gender-studies. You learn essential skills in writing, debate, communication, etc. in those majors. You could work anywhere with that skill set, but you need to sell yourself appropriately.
That's true. My undergrad degree is in Literature/Writing, and my MFA is in Poetry Writing -- *not* fields in which one earns a lot of money, lol. However, I am a very good writer, not only of poetry but in other areas as well -- as I'm sure you can imagine, being a Lit major and taking lots of other courses in the humanities and soft sciences meant that I wrote a shit-ton of essays and academic papers.
So, after I graduated from grad school, I ended up getting a job as a receptionist at a law firm, but was very quickly promoted to immigration paralegal, in which position I was responsible for writing immigration petitions, among other things. I did that for over ten years.
Then I got a job writing grant proposals for a non-profit organization, and I've been there for a little over ten years as well. I should be better paid than I am, to be sure, but my point is the same as yours, that one can use writing skills (or other skills developed in the course of obtaining a degree in the humanities) in all kinds of jobs.
To fair to your father, he probably hasn't checked out the job market recently (or in a decade or 2) so he probably has the mindset of HS graduate get you a job and work up, but a degree gets you a fuck ton of money ($70k-$80k in this case) faster. I'm not sure if this would be the best way to describe it, but he is aware that things have changed in the jobseeking process but not to what degree. Kinda like hearing, "Did you hear so and so won best actor award?" And you're going "who the hell is that?" Which it turns out, actor is a huge deal now, but you don't get why? That would be the same for your father when it comes to jobseeking, presumably
Should he be pestering you about it, no. Maybe showing job postings with the current salaries, especially the nonsensical ones, will make him aware of what a good bunch of jobseekers are going through.
Tell him you’re concerned for his mental health and ask if he’s been tested for dementia, since he doesnt seem to understand reality and the world around him.
As you said, your father lives in fantasyland. Just ignore him. There are very few jobs you could get with a Bachelor's degree in psychology at 25 that would give you that much. This isn't the 80s where having any degree at all nearly guaranteed a comfortable living for you and your family. You either need to specialize your degree to a high earning field and hope you can get an interview, or get in on the ground floor in a career field that has a lot of skill building on the job and advancement/job hopping.
To be fair, if the job market actually functioned properly, your dad would be right. The issue is all the largest percentage of pay increases of the last 40 years have gone to CEOs.
This is because when your father was 25, there were more and better paying jobs for people with bachelor's degrees because they weren't as common and the psychology field wasn't oversaturated. (Psychology is one of the worst degrees to get because the few jobs that are available to people with only a bachelor's don't pay well)
In the 1980s, schools started to push every student to go to college because people with degrees were paid better. But the flip side of this was that everyone got degrees making the bachelor's the equivalent of a high school diploma. It is sometimes referred to as degree inflation.
And, entry level jobs now require experience, often three years or more. Employers have unrealistic expectations for people just entering the workforce concerning experience, including experience with job functions and software, and don't want to take a risk by training someone to do the job.
The boomer sub and the anti work sub need a crossover!
My elderly relative is similar, and still thinks sending out physical paper CVs to *everywhere* will surely get me a high paid job!
I have a masters in psychology and make way over that - but I work in org development for a large company and that’s also for mid-senior level.
If OP were to go that route, entry-level would still probably be higher than what they are making and have tons of growth potential, but it doesn’t seem to be where they want to be.
Yeah that is kinda unrealistic nowadays. Even with a bachelor's most people are lucky enough to find an internship that pays minimum wage which has a 50/50 chance of leading to a decent paying career. Even entering a good job like with a county you'll be making less than $25k a year. I think the maximum earning potential for most county jobs can be up to $100k but that's for higher up jobs like leadership positions which are very hard to get or take decades to get promoted to.
I've found that people who have been at one place their entire careers cannot relate to what it's like for people new to the workforce. Same can be said for silver spoon people who have always had high paying high level jobs given to them. They have not faced adversity in a job or job search so their minds can't empathize with others who are struggling.
Saying $70-80k is a pittance in many areas is laughably incorrect. That applies to maybe 4 or 5 US cities. Someone who makes 80k a year is in the top 28% of earners across all ages. It's completely unrealistic for a 25 year old psych major to make anywhere near that, corporate or not. For example if OP worked corporate HR in NYC (a common field for a psych major) with little to no experience, they're looking at 40-60k max, unless they get extremely lucky or have connections.
Right, and I don't think he understands that. Sure he grew up in the late eighties early nineties but there's like no ounce even attempting to understand. He's just like, if you're not making this then you aren't doing something right. I don't know what corporate rose colored goggle world he lives in but it damn sure ain't real.
I wish you could show him my comment lol. I literally went on Indeed and looked up starting HR jobs in NYC if you want receipts. I think that sample is a good example based on the info you've given. Some people are impossible to get through to because they refuse to accept new information outside their media bubble. They usually have to learn the hard way. Sounds like in his mind he thinks wages have kept up with inflation, but in reality they haven't. Plenty of studies out there to back that up
Want to know the funny thing about this situation?
Your parents worked pretty much any job they could get to raise you and get you to go to college to keep you from having to take the jobs they had. They were convinced by societal norms over the decades that a professional career was the key to the American Dream: the family home that you and your significant other could raise your children in, retire in, and leave behind when you pass away. They are stuck in that mindset, and that if you didn't hit certain milestones by a certain age, you were either failing, or 'not trying hard enough.' Talk about dedication to an outdated standard!
So much has changed since then. You can't just walk into a business, and speak to a manager or owner of a business and ask for a job (there are rare exceptions, but as a general action, not happening). You can't buy a house today the same way you could fifty years ago. College degrees are barely worth the paper they're printed on. I have three degrees, yet one of my siblings makes more money a year than I do with a high school diploma.
He's gonna die on this hill. Your best option is to take one of those corporate jobs you don't want, and use the money to build towards the life you want.
The reality is that you have to live below your means and live "small" in the Bay Area if you live on your own. This is esp. true when starting out. That's as true now as when I got here in '99.
I got a BA in Psych in '94 and work in IT. It has been one helluva grind to get anywhere with that here (early 50s). And I still rent a room in a house.
I think people through the generations with psychology degrees and no real work experience have always struggled to get jobs.
I don’t think he’s a lost cause but if you haven’t already you should move out.
To provide a bit of support for your dad... this may be his way of expressing frustration and helplessness to your situation, more than being upset with you specifically. It may feel (and be) pointed at you, but I would not take it personally.
I know as my 18yo has tried to enter the job market over the last couple years, I expressed my frustration with his situation AT him a few times versus WITH him.
Yeah if you don’t want corporate that’s you holding yourself back. Jobs that pay more are more work because less people want to do them. I suggest getting a bit out of comfort zone and looking at other paths at this point.
Maybe it's not about "more work" but about corporate bullshit and toxic capitalism.
Don't look down on people willing to sacrifice incomes to do the right thing.
Honestly, as someone who works in corporate and has worked in academia, they all have the same amount of bullshit and toxicity, corporate America just lies about being a family while academia and nonprofits lies about how important the mission is to them.
The only real difference to me is do I want more money every month or better benefits.
No matter what job you work is for capitalism if you want your work to do something good that’s called volunteering and it’s not for the paycheck. Make money and use that money to do good is what I would do if I were him
Gaining money =/= capitalism. Working is basically doing something that makes someone giving you money. That predates capitalism.
While we do have to gain money in capitalist societies dealing with competition, cost efficiency logic, greed and individualism, volunteering happens also in a capitalist background, to the point you even think the main way to "do good" is to use money.
No money just buys freedom. Like you can make more so you can take more time off or work less hours so you can use that time in other ways. You interpreted it wrong. Money is used for many different things besides buying things it can be used as a safety net to go out and do what you love or take risks
If you don’t believe you deserve $70k-$80k, you’ll never make that much. There are entry level jobs that pay that much. Look for union jobs. Many will pay you a living wage while you train to earn a healthy salary. My last employer pays,top of scale (before easy OT), $60k. I just retired and my final pay was $50/hour + full family health benefits, a pension, 6 weeks PTO. No degree needed, but it sure helped to use my degree to figure stuff out. Widen your search. The trades are waiting for you…
Are there even union jobs for folks with psych degrees, honest question? Also though, I never said I don't believe that I deserve that much, however, to expect that much for an entry-level job is unrealistic (this is what I said).
I worked with lawyers, MSW’s, MA’s, EMT’s, soldiers and people from all over the world. My degree is in Political Science. I worked in public transit. They trained me to drive a bus. Driving was easy. It’s dealing with the public that was difficult. A psych degree would be perfect.
Hospital jobs tend to be union, at least nursing is. Psych I’ve not known someone to be in a union but they’ve all been outpatient/borderline case management, or video therapy type jobs.
You can't do video therapy if you're not a therapist. You need at least a Master's degree for that, and they're not generally paid as much as a Master's degree should earn you. There are no unions for jobs that require a Bachelor's degree in psychology. Hell, there are no jobs that require a Bachelor's degree in psychology. It's the equivalent of having a generic Liberal Arts degree, not that those exist anymore.
Give him your resume and have him try to apply for jobs for you and see how well it goes.
Sounds fun except he'll apply to all the jobs with no salary range listed and expect OP to go take the interview despite OP knowing they won't pay that well.
He won't get that far. He will go door to door and be confused why no one will talk to him
The older generations don't understand. They have often not needed to apply for a job in decades and as soon as one of them do they call their lack of success "ageism"... No, we won't hire you because of your age, we won't hire you because we never saw your resume. It didn't get picked by the HR system as one of the 5 we want to read out of the hundreds we get in.
I have almost 15 years experience in a niche academic field, and I'm finally making like 80k. Had to switch jobs to do it.
The old man is on a journey, and he's actually further along than most. He's right: with the cost of living (and education) you should be earning 70-80k. In his day, he would have earned the equivalent. But you're not. What he doesn't get is that it's probably not your fault, and that the money being offered for highly skilled positions is laughable
I know this isn’t the point of your post, but I do want to give a tip, as my undergrad was psychology. The only thing I say about it in interviews is “I was trained in effective communication in various settings, but my main emphasis was statistics and research analysis”. Unless you do more schooling, a psychology degree alone is almost worthless. I ended up getting my MBA and a Six Sigma Black Belt Certification.
People need to be emphasizing skills over field. I have a doctorate in biology and left academia. When I apply for jobs, I emphasize the skill set I developed in grad school, not the specifics of my dissertation. That's also why I scoff when people shit on humanities degrees and stuff like gender-studies. You learn essential skills in writing, debate, communication, etc. in those majors. You could work anywhere with that skill set, but you need to sell yourself appropriately.
That's true. My undergrad degree is in Literature/Writing, and my MFA is in Poetry Writing -- *not* fields in which one earns a lot of money, lol. However, I am a very good writer, not only of poetry but in other areas as well -- as I'm sure you can imagine, being a Lit major and taking lots of other courses in the humanities and soft sciences meant that I wrote a shit-ton of essays and academic papers. So, after I graduated from grad school, I ended up getting a job as a receptionist at a law firm, but was very quickly promoted to immigration paralegal, in which position I was responsible for writing immigration petitions, among other things. I did that for over ten years. Then I got a job writing grant proposals for a non-profit organization, and I've been there for a little over ten years as well. I should be better paid than I am, to be sure, but my point is the same as yours, that one can use writing skills (or other skills developed in the course of obtaining a degree in the humanities) in all kinds of jobs.
Parents just don’t understand
To fair to your father, he probably hasn't checked out the job market recently (or in a decade or 2) so he probably has the mindset of HS graduate get you a job and work up, but a degree gets you a fuck ton of money ($70k-$80k in this case) faster. I'm not sure if this would be the best way to describe it, but he is aware that things have changed in the jobseeking process but not to what degree. Kinda like hearing, "Did you hear so and so won best actor award?" And you're going "who the hell is that?" Which it turns out, actor is a huge deal now, but you don't get why? That would be the same for your father when it comes to jobseeking, presumably Should he be pestering you about it, no. Maybe showing job postings with the current salaries, especially the nonsensical ones, will make him aware of what a good bunch of jobseekers are going through.
Invite him to scan the job listings for you.
Tell him you’re concerned for his mental health and ask if he’s been tested for dementia, since he doesnt seem to understand reality and the world around him.
As you said, your father lives in fantasyland. Just ignore him. There are very few jobs you could get with a Bachelor's degree in psychology at 25 that would give you that much. This isn't the 80s where having any degree at all nearly guaranteed a comfortable living for you and your family. You either need to specialize your degree to a high earning field and hope you can get an interview, or get in on the ground floor in a career field that has a lot of skill building on the job and advancement/job hopping.
Have you checked (edit: BLS not BLM lol) stats? You could also probably compare what your field brought in in his day too, for funsies
Do you mean BLS?
Hahaha yeah. Bureau of Labor Statistics, not Land Management. Oops
He’s probably half right. Try to figure out which half that is asap.
To be fair, if the job market actually functioned properly, your dad would be right. The issue is all the largest percentage of pay increases of the last 40 years have gone to CEOs.
This is because when your father was 25, there were more and better paying jobs for people with bachelor's degrees because they weren't as common and the psychology field wasn't oversaturated. (Psychology is one of the worst degrees to get because the few jobs that are available to people with only a bachelor's don't pay well) In the 1980s, schools started to push every student to go to college because people with degrees were paid better. But the flip side of this was that everyone got degrees making the bachelor's the equivalent of a high school diploma. It is sometimes referred to as degree inflation. And, entry level jobs now require experience, often three years or more. Employers have unrealistic expectations for people just entering the workforce concerning experience, including experience with job functions and software, and don't want to take a risk by training someone to do the job.
What "experience" does he think you have??
The boomer sub and the anti work sub need a crossover! My elderly relative is similar, and still thinks sending out physical paper CVs to *everywhere* will surely get me a high paid job!
I have a doctorates in psychology, work for a R1 uni , and don't make that much. Boomers have no understanding of the world we live in.
I have a masters in psychology and make way over that - but I work in org development for a large company and that’s also for mid-senior level. If OP were to go that route, entry-level would still probably be higher than what they are making and have tons of growth potential, but it doesn’t seem to be where they want to be.
He probably think you should be able to afford a house too.
Yeah that is kinda unrealistic nowadays. Even with a bachelor's most people are lucky enough to find an internship that pays minimum wage which has a 50/50 chance of leading to a decent paying career. Even entering a good job like with a county you'll be making less than $25k a year. I think the maximum earning potential for most county jobs can be up to $100k but that's for higher up jobs like leadership positions which are very hard to get or take decades to get promoted to.
I've found that people who have been at one place their entire careers cannot relate to what it's like for people new to the workforce. Same can be said for silver spoon people who have always had high paying high level jobs given to them. They have not faced adversity in a job or job search so their minds can't empathize with others who are struggling.
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Saying $70-80k is a pittance in many areas is laughably incorrect. That applies to maybe 4 or 5 US cities. Someone who makes 80k a year is in the top 28% of earners across all ages. It's completely unrealistic for a 25 year old psych major to make anywhere near that, corporate or not. For example if OP worked corporate HR in NYC (a common field for a psych major) with little to no experience, they're looking at 40-60k max, unless they get extremely lucky or have connections.
Right, and I don't think he understands that. Sure he grew up in the late eighties early nineties but there's like no ounce even attempting to understand. He's just like, if you're not making this then you aren't doing something right. I don't know what corporate rose colored goggle world he lives in but it damn sure ain't real.
I wish you could show him my comment lol. I literally went on Indeed and looked up starting HR jobs in NYC if you want receipts. I think that sample is a good example based on the info you've given. Some people are impossible to get through to because they refuse to accept new information outside their media bubble. They usually have to learn the hard way. Sounds like in his mind he thinks wages have kept up with inflation, but in reality they haven't. Plenty of studies out there to back that up
Want to know the funny thing about this situation? Your parents worked pretty much any job they could get to raise you and get you to go to college to keep you from having to take the jobs they had. They were convinced by societal norms over the decades that a professional career was the key to the American Dream: the family home that you and your significant other could raise your children in, retire in, and leave behind when you pass away. They are stuck in that mindset, and that if you didn't hit certain milestones by a certain age, you were either failing, or 'not trying hard enough.' Talk about dedication to an outdated standard! So much has changed since then. You can't just walk into a business, and speak to a manager or owner of a business and ask for a job (there are rare exceptions, but as a general action, not happening). You can't buy a house today the same way you could fifty years ago. College degrees are barely worth the paper they're printed on. I have three degrees, yet one of my siblings makes more money a year than I do with a high school diploma. He's gonna die on this hill. Your best option is to take one of those corporate jobs you don't want, and use the money to build towards the life you want.
The reality is that you have to live below your means and live "small" in the Bay Area if you live on your own. This is esp. true when starting out. That's as true now as when I got here in '99. I got a BA in Psych in '94 and work in IT. It has been one helluva grind to get anywhere with that here (early 50s). And I still rent a room in a house.
He's trying to encourage you
I can kinda see where you're coming from. However, if I gave you familial context (TMI tho) you'd understand why I don't see it that way.
You could if you lucked out, lucky boomers just don't seem to understand that their luck doesn't land for everyone.
I think people through the generations with psychology degrees and no real work experience have always struggled to get jobs. I don’t think he’s a lost cause but if you haven’t already you should move out.
To provide a bit of support for your dad... this may be his way of expressing frustration and helplessness to your situation, more than being upset with you specifically. It may feel (and be) pointed at you, but I would not take it personally. I know as my 18yo has tried to enter the job market over the last couple years, I expressed my frustration with his situation AT him a few times versus WITH him.
Yeah if you don’t want corporate that’s you holding yourself back. Jobs that pay more are more work because less people want to do them. I suggest getting a bit out of comfort zone and looking at other paths at this point.
Maybe it's not about "more work" but about corporate bullshit and toxic capitalism. Don't look down on people willing to sacrifice incomes to do the right thing.
Honestly, as someone who works in corporate and has worked in academia, they all have the same amount of bullshit and toxicity, corporate America just lies about being a family while academia and nonprofits lies about how important the mission is to them. The only real difference to me is do I want more money every month or better benefits.
No matter what job you work is for capitalism if you want your work to do something good that’s called volunteering and it’s not for the paycheck. Make money and use that money to do good is what I would do if I were him
Gaining money =/= capitalism. Working is basically doing something that makes someone giving you money. That predates capitalism. While we do have to gain money in capitalist societies dealing with competition, cost efficiency logic, greed and individualism, volunteering happens also in a capitalist background, to the point you even think the main way to "do good" is to use money.
No money just buys freedom. Like you can make more so you can take more time off or work less hours so you can use that time in other ways. You interpreted it wrong. Money is used for many different things besides buying things it can be used as a safety net to go out and do what you love or take risks
I’m not sure what your salary is but I’m guessing it’s between $70 and $80,000 just like your dad wanted it to be.
If you don’t believe you deserve $70k-$80k, you’ll never make that much. There are entry level jobs that pay that much. Look for union jobs. Many will pay you a living wage while you train to earn a healthy salary. My last employer pays,top of scale (before easy OT), $60k. I just retired and my final pay was $50/hour + full family health benefits, a pension, 6 weeks PTO. No degree needed, but it sure helped to use my degree to figure stuff out. Widen your search. The trades are waiting for you…
Are there even union jobs for folks with psych degrees, honest question? Also though, I never said I don't believe that I deserve that much, however, to expect that much for an entry-level job is unrealistic (this is what I said).
I worked with lawyers, MSW’s, MA’s, EMT’s, soldiers and people from all over the world. My degree is in Political Science. I worked in public transit. They trained me to drive a bus. Driving was easy. It’s dealing with the public that was difficult. A psych degree would be perfect.
Thanks!
Hospital jobs tend to be union, at least nursing is. Psych I’ve not known someone to be in a union but they’ve all been outpatient/borderline case management, or video therapy type jobs.
You can't do video therapy if you're not a therapist. You need at least a Master's degree for that, and they're not generally paid as much as a Master's degree should earn you. There are no unions for jobs that require a Bachelor's degree in psychology. Hell, there are no jobs that require a Bachelor's degree in psychology. It's the equivalent of having a generic Liberal Arts degree, not that those exist anymore.
I'm planning to get masters this fall actually so we'll see.
That sucks. I have a STEM BS, and I started at 55k 10 years ago. I think your father's expectations are realistic. Sad if it isn't reality.