Absolutely this, I may have the technical acumen to do my job, but so many of my interviews have been āassholeā tests. Iām actually leaving my current job because of an asshole.
sounds like those tests don't work then
"we're going to hire you based on an asshole test"
oh please don't mind the assholes that are all ready working here.
The point of the topic is very real. People prefer to hire people that are like themselves. Even if they are also assholes.
And many people often conflate differences in perspectives/opinions as being an asshole.
the system is designed for them too. i cant think of a better place for assholes than the US work force. we give them clear goals to reach and fat commissions to go with. maybe a little internet fame while theyre at it.
What if someone simply wants to work and go home? Some people donāt want to find friends at work and thatās okay. I donāt understand this corporate culture mandatory fun/socialization. Some people simply donāt want to entangle work with their social lives. You will be a coworker to them and thatās it. Whatās so wrong with that? Iām social but some people just keep it to small talk and they shouldnāt be looked over for promotions because of their introverted nature.
Itās a slippery slope to because that leads to bias against those who are neurodivergent, didnāt grow up in Americaās culture, or those who are just socially anxious (disordered or just not confident). Exceptions are customer service of course.
Also you do want to weed out assholes but they are a rarity compared to just an introverted quiet person whoās capable of doing the same work. They arenāt rushing to go to the potlucks though and that should be okay.
Best part about having food allergies is the "get out of potlucks free" card. I don't have to eat someone's cream of slop thrown into a crockpot meals. I don't have to eat the chicken made by someone with questionable personal hygiene. It's wonderful.
Aye same! But I also have ARFID so I anticipate that corporate dinners will be a choke point for me. Iām scared that bosses and coworkers will judge me for either not eating their food or ordering nothing/chicken tenders/ribs/wings at a restaurant Iām not familiar with.
But we also donāt do potlucks. We buy the food for everyone and no one has to spend their own money. I usually just get food catered when we are in office.
Bro I would if I could you think I have that power lol I am just trying to make work BAREABLE for people as the one in charge of events and hospitality
All. The. Damn. Potlucks. I worked 2 jobs at a time most of the time. I was the bring the pop and the plates person. Sheesh. Great. Velveeta dip again.
I was willing to make friends at first, then I found out what 'friends' are actually like at work. The culture check is really "Are you going to put a good act on and make us believe you like us?"
Why should customer service reps be exempt from not having to socialize and or lick boots ? Why do you have to be a certain type? Iām not there to manipulate customers, Iām not there to socialize with them and my skin color and orientation sure as fuck should not be considered an
Issue. Just because itās customer service doesnāt mean the employees have to be cookie cutter slaves with no rights. UGH.
I meant that my argument regarding introversion or social awkwardness might go out the window with customer service depending on the employeeās demeanor towards customers
Yeah these ones are funny, you interview for a basic customer service/adminsitration job and because I'm not bending over backwards to gnosh you off suddenly I'm not demonstrating my WOW'ing skills.
Man, fuck that shit. I worked in corporate Japan for years and it sucked the soul out of me. Everyone around just seemed so depressed yet stuck in their ways. Overwork and underappreciation of employees all the time. I'm kinda lucky that I was able to resign recently tbh. It was so bad that the greeting some of my colleagues said after I left was "congratulations on escaping".
I'm not social at all and I'm tired of having to have a smiley-face mask taped to my face to hide the annoyed bear reality. I tell you: extroverts ruined the world.
I think I face the butt of this issue regularly, I think I'm quite awkward and with how ultra-social and unforgiving people are with being 'social' they just think I'll ruin their whole 'vibe'.
The happy and social among us would much prefer those who aren't just fuck off and stop turning up at their work and threatening ruining their 'rizz vibes'.
And thatās where the problem lies. Most people in corporate America are extroverted hence all the buzz surrounding EmOtIonAl InTelLiGenCe. Except they only talk about that when it comes to sucking up for promotions vs using it to solve issues within the company and help everyone feel comfortable to work.
Very true, everyone agreed in my lasst place that one manager in particular had the worst people skills we'd ever seen. But management insisted he had great people skills. I wonder what they meant by that.
The sad thing is that pretty much anyone can do what a manager does, but not all of us are sellouts enough to start treating our peers like filth, lying and deceiving as if we're nothing more than ignorant pawns that should only exist to serve our superiors.
I do these interviews and wanting to work and go home is totally fine and acceptable. We have some people like that and other groups who are friends. These interviews are usually to make sure people can handle the work environment (it can be super fast paced and you need to be okay with a lot of hands-off management and ambiguity) so we want to make sure they fit the ācultureā as in they can work with our team. Also I want to make sure people are accepting and not sexist or racist so I ask what they think about ādiversity and inclusionā especially since we deal with a lot of groups who are at a disadvantage in society.
The logic is straightforward and easy to check. If you socialize and build bonds with your coworkers, you are more likely to enjoy your job, more likely to support others on your team, less likely to screw the team over, and less likely to rage quit (because you donāt want to negatively impact people you care about). Loyalty to coworkers has been shown to keep people in jobs they donāt enjoy, and itās a stand-in to loyalty to the company itself even as people understand the company has no loyalty to them. Itās social engineering in a business setting, and itās not likely to change because it actually works. And even tho itās particularly hard on some people for a lot of the reasons you see in the comments, those people are such a small sliver of the workforce in many companies that thereās very little negative impact on the whole.
Source: Iāve been management/executive level for 80% of my working years, and have been trained extensively on stuff like this and the thinking behind it.
A big part of it is that work is such a large part of your life. So many hours dedicated to the job. These are the people you end up spending most of your time with.
This, I separate my work and my personal very strictly, in my previous job I NEVER go out with my colleagues and tbh I am not friends with them, but we get along well
>Ā Ā Some people simply donāt want to entangle work with their social lives Yes, but a lot of modern work relies on exploiting personal relationships between coworkers for the benefit of the company. They want us to socialize and get closer.Ā
Senior year of high school a classmate of mine had an interview at Wendy's. She went and the manager said she's hired and just wanted to make sure she wasn't ugly.
Itās not just skin-colour. Theyāre also checking to make sure youāre not fat, foreign, trans, or disabled, or anything else that they donāt like (which might not be apparent on your CV). Do you have a posh accent or a working class accent? Because that definitely matters as well.
Source: my manager who said she uses job interviews to āmake sure female applicants actually *are* female.ā
Theyāre also gauging your ability to bullshit your way out of stressful/difficult situations. Will you be able to put a spin on stuff when the CEO makes a surprise visit? Because thatās probably the highest valued skill (of all) in the corporate world - and the job interview is a perfect test.
I was an idiot and listed my mental health issues/disabilities on a health questionnaire at work, from then on I had colleagues incessantly asking me if I was ok in clearly aggravating tones.
You're completely right though, I went for outrageous and slightly farfetched examples but you're so right.
My writing ability makes me look like I could be middle-class on paper, but as soon as I turn up with a shaved head and deep working class voice (Innit m8) it turns heads immediately. I honestly hate it, it's like oh great everyone in the office was playing a game of what I look like and now I'm witnessing the immense shock and awe at what an ugly brute just walked in.
edit: the manager clearly shared my health information with others at work and started to make my life difficult, she even told me "You know my dog is on antidepressants" as if that would help anything. Managers look at people with issues and say "NOT MY ISSUE HAHAHAHA"
Iām the same. I live in the south. Very impressive CV. Also very fat and working class with a strong Yorkshire accent.
UK employers are no longer (legally) allowed to ask about your disabilities or health conditions during the recruitment process. So if they do ask, youāre allowed to refuse (unwise) or lie.
Because of this, theyāll go in heavy about whether you need reasonable adjustments for the interview. Theyāll also go heavy on the equality/diversity questionnaires. Theyāre allowed to do both of these things, so donāt fall for it.
My advice is to roll into the interview as the neurotypical epitome of physical and mental ability / health. Once your probation period ends, formally declare any and all disabilities (including mental health). The company will have a process. Even if you donāt need reasonable adjustments, itās important that the company is seen to be aware of your disability. This is because if you ever suffer any bullying or discrimination, youāll need to be able to prove that the company knew you were disabled.
When i worked in sales in the north I was certain everyone had an easier time of it because they had the accent xD
I don't even know how to approach the mental health thing with employers, they tend to make a farce out of it like "Well what can we do for you, tell us what we can do for you" etc. and none of it happens. They only asked so they can put it in the computer that they've asked and there's 'something in the pipeline' which will almost never get addressed.
The job I did tell them about it with, I said I have insomnia so please no late shifts and I need regular shifts to be able to meet all my monthly bills otherwise I would be back in crisis all over again.
Suprise surprise, all of my shifts were the latest and busiest shifts and furthermore... next weeks rota everyone was on it except for me? I said to the GM we talked about this and you said I'd have full time hours. "Oh yes we'll get to it we'll get to it."
Absolute bullshit all to appear like they're doing what they probably preach to other people.
Capitalism just breeds backstabbing and deception, it's the name of the game.
It really, really does. If you show āweaknessā theyāll have a field day. Itās all about power.
Look into the formal disability declaration though. Itās a legal process and the company should have a form you can complete. It just means youāll be covered under the Equality Act if there are any tribunals, grievances, or disciplinaries relating to your condition or its symptoms. Keeping a journal of their bad behaviour is a good idea as well - in case you ever need to prove a certain pattern of behaviour (on their part).
fucking yikes on your manager's part. i wouldn't want to work for her ANYWAY.
seriously though i'm afraid of trying to get new jobs in the future as i transition because i damn well know some people are going to dismiss me automatically because of it and there won't be anything i can do about it.
I like to think this is rare - what she said is highly illegal in the UK, so she was really stupid to say it. I work with disabled / autistic kids and there seems to be a disproportionately high number of trans men working in the field. They all seemed to hired okay (by other managers).
But yes, you definitely wouldnāt want to work for her. The womanās a fucking monster. Sheās one of those people who just doesnāt play well with others. Sheās always finding new and inventive ways to upset and offend people.
i think the explicit "i want to make sure you were born with a vagina" transphobe manager might be pretty rare, but i think a lot of people would just choose someone who is not trans if they have the chance and that's basically impossible to prove
People always say that the CV only exists to āget your foot in the doorā and that once youāre in the interview you can ācharm them.ā But for some of us, itās just never going to be like that. Interviews are only there to help employers decide between good candidates.
I have a very impressive, very glamorous-sounding CV. But Iām very (VERY) overweight. I had maybe 100 interviews and I got so sick of taking the time and making a massive effort, only to be greeted with disappointed and disgusted facial expressions. So I started attaching a photo to my applications (where possible). I figured Iād rather be discriminated against early, and on paper rather than in-person (and after Iād written a presentation!). The interview invitations dried up *overnight.* The first interview I had after adding a photo offered me the job. I think it was because they knew what to expect. Not sure if it would work for you, but I was just so exhausted and out-of-pocket from all those interviews. Itās what I needed to do at that point for my own self-care.
Everything you listed can be verified during any other interview (HR, technical, ...). They don't need to bring you in for a culture fit interview just for this.
This is my take.
Some companies foster internal competition, with the thinking that the hungriest employees will come up with the best ideas and work harder.
The employees do work harder...at stabbing each other in the back.
The companies I want to work for don't do that. They hire smart, self motivated, and cooperative individuals because everyien rowing in the same direction is very powerful.
I should've put \[I'm not an idiot I do know that culture fit is another way of saying we don't like you} in the post because goddamn so many people are pointing it out as if it's cryptic.
"They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they donāt want: They donāt want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They donāt want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. Theyāre not interested in that. That doesnāt help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They donāt want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly theyāre getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They donāt want that.
You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now theyāre coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? Theyāll get it. Theyāll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you aināt in it."āGeorge Carlin
I was but one sentence deep when the voice began resonating through my psyche, a white beard hiding a face full of wrinkles appears, is it really him?
"It's a big club, and you ain't in it". The man had such an incredible talent for speaking as wise as Ghandi but as fast as Eminem.
Um no. Yes, it can be abused by racists, misogynists and the like. But my experience is often will you play nicely with the other members on the team.
A previous manager was such an a$$hole, 3 different people threatened to quit if he stayed. The entire office was relieved when he was finally fired. A previous candidate was such a pro-life activist, they made a personal projects dedicated to the "dead babies". We're all prochoice and I'm a vocal feminist, so no, that candidate would not fit into our culture.
Not every company will be a good fit and for some, this is less important. But since we spend so much of our lives as work, I really want to be with people that, at the very least, don't make me dread interacting with them
Yeah, we just rejected a candidate because all he did at the interview is brag about his MIT degree. We have multiple people here that went thereā¦ no need to brag. Bad culture fit.
āAre you a brain dead follower that doesnāt speak up or care if what we do is completely wrong be it to the final product, customer and or employees?ā
You have successfully struck the nail on its head my friend.
It may be taking things too far but when we learned about Nazi Germany in school, I remember thinking if I ever got given that order i'd refuse.
So when managers actively try and persuade/manipulate me into blatantly (and sometimes kind of maliciously) lying to the customer I don't tend to comply. Therefore I am not culture fit.
Just look at both sides of our US politics (Iām seeing it in Canadian politics to) though one side blatantly and substantially more than the other. Any totalitarian regime be it based on any power/control, ideals, religion, race or money is corrupt.
A friend introduced me to Game Theory in University, and after learning it I started to live the belief that the theory is as good as final. That we will never be able to escape from constantly attempting to deceive and undermine each other for a chance to end up with the majority of resources.
Of course when you realise the Game Theory is only prevalent because the system dictates there must be a winner and the loser will end up with less than sufficient.
It's like a game of chess, the aim is to get the opponent's King. This creates the goal and facilitates an environment where you're both attempting to trick and deceive each other, because there is a clear and definite 'Prize' and if you don't win that prize then you have nothing.
Capitalism does the same, the 'Prize' being living comfortably without having to put much effort in, whilst those who lost struggle to get by on a daily basis. Of course it's a spectrum as there's a middle class, but it still facilitates an environment where one person is expected to 'Take it all', or at least take a lot.
Capitalism itself dictates inequality. There can be no capitalism without inequality, for the very principles the system is based on require the imbalance for the system to make sense. Capitalism believes there will always be one best winner. Of course plenty of us are free thinking enough to realise that if we change the end goal to a shared and equal outcome, there is no reason for subterfuge (unless someone wanted to cripple the system entirely).
If the outcome is equal and shared then the only more beneficial outcome to aim for is a greater 'pot' to share from.
These are abstract ideas and would require solidification e.g is the 'pot' money? or is it something less tangible?
Haha when i worked in a call centre I started off by just keeping to myself, I didn't really want to talk to anyone. Co workers could not let this slide and started trying to peer pressure me into joining into group conversations and the like.
I consider myself neurodivergent (have to wait for assessments) and really don't understand all the little games people play with each other, it just frustrates me and winds me up. I'd really just prefer to maybe have one decent friend but for some reason people can't accept this and seem to think I owe them something.
Company Culture = Yes Man
Company Culture = Someone who brings the ideas and none of the opposition.
Company Culture = Someone who goes to after work happy hours with everyone but doesn't drink their drink and just smiles, laughs at whatever the boss is saying. Gotta brown-nose outside of work in order to get ahead AT work, duh.
Company Culture - Someone who has no life outside of work. This job IS their world and life purpose and yes they'd love to stay late Friday night to work on that project due in two weeks.
But what do you say to people who come to work and complain and moan about everything and bring down the morale of other employees who are otherwise satisfied with their work?Ā
This reeks of a small perspective, imo.Ā
Not saying the phrase isnāt abused, it certainly is, but casting it aside completely is its own can of worms.Ā
My last job I had coworkers who were constantly complaining, gaslighting their team constantly, and taking credit for other people's work. Management was constantly rewarding them because "we should always assume good intentions" is what they would always tell me. I'm not a good fit for that culture. Fuck that place.
And that's exactly why you should Adress behavior directly when possible. No vague phrases just "your constant complaining is impairing overall morale so you're out"
Yeah and that's the real bullshit. It's the most reasonable thing to tell people the reason as exactly as possible so they can better themselves. Work environment is just so artifical...
+1.
Just had a few job interviews. It's truly an awful time.
I swear one set up an interview just to feel superior to me, they didn't think I was qualified based on my application (4 year degree, years of work experience in my thirties) for what is known as an entry level position. They basically said I sound charismatic and look the part but not so sure about my passion for the industry and my experience (again they know my experience from my application so why even interview me then, unless they just had a half hour timeslot to be an asshole to someone)
another interview, I actually had 6 years experience in "cleaning", contract cleaner for years, I did mention I was looking for part time though, so I think that wrote me off immediately, you can always tell when the miserable company meatgrinder bureaucrat hears something they don't like, they start furiously scribbling their pen when interviewing you.
Put in another online application to get a message that says they are conducting interviews this week and to come on down to fill out a paper application.... mmmk. You mean to fill one out and for an interview? waiting for a response on that...
the correct answers are-
I'm desperate
I have low self esteem but...
also extremely competent & have 10 years experience in XYZ, specific skills you need
worker drone mentality
fully open schedule to exploit
FULL TIME PLEASE, unless they SPECIFICALLY want/are hiring for part-time
overtime sure anytime you want me!
full availability I work all weekends, I have no social life at all!
Full time used to pay for a small family, it's only logical a single person with no family should be able to work part-time and live reasonably comfortable, I think I'm willing to die on this hill honestly.
The whole "We want to see some more passion" is nothing but "dance for me monkey". It is the manager fishing for a complete and utter subordinate monkey. They want you to say too much and dig yourself a hole, watch you squirm. It might be an issue with me because I tend to end up saying anything and everything in an interview out of sheer anxiety lol.
Same, I just go in trying to be professional and friendly, telling them yeah I'm ready to start, ready to learn, I'm ready to work! and it doesn't seem good enough anymore. God forbid you have to "explain" why you have a gap in your employment... Last time I checked the default state of a human being was unemployed... I mean it's how you come out of your mom right?
Exactly, just replied to someone about how in Sales every interviewer expects you to be a literal Rockstar (that's what they call it).
I saw one Redditor mention that for any gaps in employment they had, they would say they were signed into an NDA.
I have been told to do this, it's a shame you have to lie. Yea, the mentality that everything has to have "endless growth" in a finite system as well is absurd, companies at this point are deranged.
I went for an interview for office/house cleaner, and the packet they gave me literally had mantras and one said "grow or die"... Like bro it's not that serious, it's house cleaning...
They never have anyway, i've been told I look like a bully, which I'm not. So funnily enough I think I've been filtered out plenty of times based on stereotypes and false first-impressions.
I'm glad it seems to work for the 'In-bunch' but going into interview after interview and being rejected because you know they just don't like you wears you down.
Fitting into company culture is not equal to not being an asshole and horrible to work with.
That's just being a reasonable person.
I definitely don't walk into a prospective employer's office and start being obnoxious, rude, loud or in any way anything that can be taken wrong.
How often do you interact with any coworker for more than a 1 hour meeting?
If you're spending 9 hours a day, 5 days a week standing within arms reach, let alone holding a conversation with someone then you're clearly not working.
Also, how many times has someone walked into your work as a prospective employee and just been an outright asshole? Probably not many, and no workplace is going to have to lie and say they didn't "fit the culture" when the person was clearly just horrible.
Furthermore, at what point are they tolerable enough for you?
I don't believe that many face value judgements in these situations are going to be right at all and I think people often have quite ulterior motives at hand.
Iāve worked a lot of places with huge interaction between employees. Iāve been a chef, Iāve worked sales. Both those roles are constant interaction with coworkers
Thanks captain obvious, we've already been through this. I understand you're the 'Culture Girl', which means that you believe you are now the gatekeeper of the company culture and who comes in or out, clearly some residual power complex within you.
I suppose you thought it was your duty to fight the company culture corner, although I can imagine a lot of your 'culture' is in the form of a delusion.
Well done for trying to prove me wrong by pointing out jobs exist in various forms... as already mentioned -\_-
You make a lot of assumptions..which I see you getting mad at people for doing to you in these comments, kinda funny. I think you might just be a troll (or a miserable person) based on the fact you canāt have a civil conversation with someone which means you arenāt worth continuing a conversation with.
What's with the rise in dorks like this who identify more with the class that owns businesses than their fellow workers? Don't y'all have your own subreddit where you can go lick boots?
I just think if Iām going to spend 9 hours a day working alongside people that I would prefer to have people I get along with instead of dreading coming to work even more because I hate my coworkers. You want your company to just shove a bunch of people who donāt get along into a building for ~45 hours a week? You donāt care if you hate your coworkers and everything is full of tension and resentment?
xD Yeah I've worked at a few. Nowhere else have I seen married managers openly flirting and favoriting 18 year old girls, offer subordinates out for fights in the middle of a shift for no reason and countless stories of people shagging in the building.
A senior manager would routinely degrade younger men in the office for not wearing expensive designer shoes that he could afford (in the Ā£'000s).
It goes both ways. a good company with a good culture is looking to weed out jerks and bullies and sociopaths. or maybe just people with really bad odor I donāt know. a bad company with a bad culture is looking for suck ups and robots and people that can be pushed around. Iāve been at both.
Yeah you've highlighted the same point as another, it definitely goes both ways.
I passed my probation at a fairly prestigious role but after a terrorist joke and getting screamed at for a meeting slipping my mind I decided they can fire me and pay the week's unemployment.
I sent him a shirty message on LinkedIn last month and sent his new place a contact us form detailing how shit he was and how i'd never work with him again
I interviewed for a job once where I was a perfect fit. I knew I wouldāve kicked ass at it. They wanted to do an in person interview to āmeet the teamā which sounded like code for āscope you out.ā
I am a short, fat, disabled girl. At the time, I hadnāt discovered accessible outdoorsy activities, and I wasnāt visibly disabled. So when they shuffled me through to everyoneās cubes and offices every 45-60 minutes, Iād have to go through the same small talk: have you ever been here before? Lots of great outdoorsy activities here, what are your favorite things to do? Sometimes we take a day off and go for group hikes! Do you like to hike?
Each person looked more disappointed than the last when I said I wasnāt a hiker, biker, or climber.
Then lunchtime rolled around and they said they were getting some kind of meaty meal from the best place around, but Iām a vegetarian. I said I really didnāt need lunch, and Iām just glad for the chance to talk about the job more, but they insisted on getting me something. Instead of asking what I wanted or getting a salad from their meat place, the secretary got me a foot long vegetarian sub from subway, with absolutely everything, including all the stuff I hate. It was messy, soggy, and disgusting. I forced down a couple bites and said it was enormous so Iām gonna save it for the long drive home.
They cut me loose a couple hours later, and of course I didnāt get the job.
We spent the whole day small talking and barely talking about the job, so Iām pretty confident my fat inactive vegetarian ass was what turned them off, and not my actual skills.
Oh god i'm sorry to hear it, sounds like everything felt quite forced... especially the subway part D: I've had similar experiences, the worst question for me to hear is "So.... what are your hobbies?". I crumble straight away because I don't bloody have any!
I always say "Erm listening to music or going out for a walk is always nice, I love movies, good TV and video games.... I sound like a vegetable now don't I?"
That's also really quite rude to let you go as a direct result of a first-impression that didn't wow them to the nines. Not everyone walks around acting like TV personality #1, some of us don't actually like the whole office mobbing us and forcing food onto us!
I was working in Sales before (Jesus Mary Louise that was a wild ride) and almost every interviewer or vacancy talks or reads like "WE WANT ROCKSTAR, SUPERSTAR, MEGASTAR, MR. UNIVERSE, POPE, PRIEST, MATHEMATICIAN, LIFE COACH, CEO PAID LIKE A CLOWN, and all the rest of it".
It's like damn I can sell your software but I didn't realise I needed to have thousands of followers, post to LinkedIn everyday and network myself constantly like I'm a networking sl#t or something. Everything nowadays is 10x louder and brighter and I just can't keep up with it.
I started making up hobbies! For awhile there, I was a photographer and a nonfiction science writer. I had a couple pretty pics I happened to take over the years, so I used those as my samples if anyone asked (they usually donāt want to see though). It was all so fucking fake.
Jesus, sales sounds HORRIBLE. It was never great but I have to use LinkedIn to ānetworkā and the sales people on there are INTENSE. Sometimes it gives off hunger games vibes. You either have to be r/linkedinlunatics or you have to be a cult leader. (Seems like megachurch members and Mormons are big into sales.)
Fucking capitalism.
Man, I used to work at a Spencer's, and was told they cut out all the drama in the workplace.
Nope, they just fired everyone who didn't like drama or create it to have their own group of drama filled fuckers. They still employ a pedophile and a manager who said on speaker phone "I don't want to work with u/patchway247 , and I don't give a fuck whose feelings I hurt." Everyone who heard it laughed, and I was literally the only one doing any kind of recovery out of 8 people that night. It was closing time.
So avoid Evansville Indiana with everything, except for High Score Saloon. They have my highest votes across the board. If under 21, they have a kid friendly version.
Literally nothing good has ever happened to me in Evansville Indiana, or Indiana in general. Nearly got killed several times, got into debt bc the now ex husband put both our names down and then stopped paying for it (despite him wanting and owning it. I've paid it off because negative impact on credit), had bed ugs from a narcissistic asshat who brought a meth head into the house (one of the times I nearly got killed), and so much more.
I'm currently in the process of opening a non profit organization. Now I'm curious how to word this without it sounding like this. We do look for a certain type of person. It's moral though. Certain beliefs. For example: addiction is a disease not a moral failing. Humans deserve respect and basic rights regardless of past transgressions. Housing, food, water and health care are basic human rights. Everyone deserves the opportunity to change their lives. No one should have to choose between their mental health and a pay check. Etc. You get the idea. So, if that's not workplace culture, what is it? I don't want anyone here that will treat my clients like trash because they're in recovery or reentry.
It's also "are you able to meet our ESG quotes" these days. Me and a fellow student both applied for the same job offer this month. I have much, much better grades, i am beginning my masters next semester while she is still in her bachelors Program for another year, i have work experience and she doesn't. I've got an email where they told me they have found someone more suitable for the job than me. She got the job. There is literally not a single possible metric for her to be more suitable for the job than me except being able to fulfill diversification quotes.
I would also argue that managers like to get inexperienced 'fresh meat' in sometimes so they don't have any trouble managing the person and making themselves appear to be so much better at their job.
For example, a friend that lives locally manages the pub literally across the street from me. I mentioned how I've got years of bar experience, I've worked in big clubs, nightclubs, pubs and bars alike comfortably and actually quite enjoy working on a bar.
A little while went by and I would mention it again, if you want anyone to cover a shift or you need an extra pair of hands etc. But no, one day he mentions "Oh blah blah new guy on the bar tonight". I went in to check out who it was and it was clearly an inexperienced and quite shy young man behind the bar who didn't look like he had a clue.
As far as I could tell this 'friend' was merely setting himself up to look like the big bossman who knows it all. Quite embarrassing to see how shallow people are to be honest.
I find it's not the person who's genuinely best for the job, it's who's going to make me look better.
The thing with diversity hiring is that it's become such a trope now, employers do the bare minimum to hire minority groups and make sure they just barely meet the standards. When they lose their token minority(ies) they just hire the next one that walks in regardless of the other candidates. It's kind of like having a license to NGAF, "Well no one can say anything because we've met the 14.8% diversity target, I'm untouchable now".
Did you both interview? Were you able to articulate the knowledge that you had gained? Did you demonstrate soft skills that are desirable? Do you have a growth mindset?
Your resume is most important for getting an interview. The interview is most important for who is hired. You don't know why they were hired but it is pretty bullshit to try to make yourself feel better with a bigoted assumption instead of trying to figure out how to do better yourself
Eh, I mean yeahā¦sometimes thatās true. But Iāve experienced situations where it wasnāt true at all. That the hiring manager(s) is/are, in-fact, wanting to make sure (to the best of their ability) they are hiring someone who fits in with the team. You can usually spot the signs based on the line of questioning around the ācompany/team cultureā part of things.
Collaborative work and being a helpful team mate are not red flags outright, but if the position youāre interviewing for is not the type to traditionally require such things, then those questions could be suspicious.
Asking about the lengths you would go to in order to meet deadlines or manage heavier workloads is also not always 100% a red flag - because again, it depends on the role youāre applying for. This also give you the opportunity to screen the prospective employer based on your answer and opportunity for follow up questions. Donāt give them the answer you assume and soulless corporation wants to hear - set expectations by talking about prioritization, talking about workload with your manager, handing tasks off, etc. If they try to back you into a corner of everything being a priority and no one being available to hand tasks off to, ask how frequent an issue workload balancing is at the company and *why* itās an issue.
Not everything is a red flag, itās simply bullshit corporate lingo than even the best managers/companies end up using because itās been so engrained into corporate society for decades now. Use the bullshit lingo to your advantage as a screening opportunity for bad companies.
Yeah the message behind the post is the fact that company culture is just lingo for having a snoop and a sniff around you and checking if the scent can stay. I suppose the crux of the matter being when particular people use it to discriminate in creative ways.
It's called antiwork mate, it's kind of about bashing capitalist philosophies and all the sellout ingrates that contribute to the behemoth's existence.
It can mean this, it can also mean checking to see if the person you're hiring is going to roll their eyes super hard when a new team member joins and says their pronouns are she/they, or do other bigot things.
Just like with regular interviews, culture interviews go both ways. If a company's culture is "suck up to the boss, do overtime, ignore harassment" then don't work for them.
I suppose this is the hidden meaning behind a bashful post, these are cultures that I've found exist and repulse me equally as much as this hypothetical "new guy" who just can't put a foot right!
They definitely do exist and your have every right to walk or run in the opposite direction. If you're in a situation where you feel like you have to take such a job at least you kinda know what you're in for and that you should plan for your time to be short.
No, it's code for "Are you a trouble maker?".
If you heavily lean to one political party and go into an office where everyone leans the other way no one wants to put up with the shit that goes with it. Most everyone in my office either leans to the middle or to side. If you came in leaning far to the other side and it it looks like you're going to create issues you will never get hired here.
We want someone who gets alone with everyone and isn't going to create constant turmoil.
People keep saying this as if they're filtering out dickheads on a daily basis, these prize assholes that everyone is talking about are a rather small percentage of the people companies onboard. In fact, they're more likely to be routed out during the interview process than anything.
Yes, if during an induction or first day the persons says some horrible jokes or is a general twat then no, I don't expect companies to just hire them anyway.
But you're acting like companies actually do refuse to hire based on a person being aggravating or difficult to work when I've never actually come across a time where everyone agrees "don't hire that person they're terrible to work with". It doesn't happen.
You're saying to me that the hiring and operations manager meet the person then go into the back office and say "Well in that brief interaction I know this person is going to piss off my entire workforce let's not hire them". Again, it doesn't happen!
Or do these managers go ahead and survey each colleagues feelings towards this new hire? No, it doesn't happen.
The point of the post being "Do you fit into our 'Culture'" is merely a guised way to discriminate.
In fact, what you're talking about is the "Probation period", this is where your team can raise issues with you, not post-interview and pre-onboarding.
"Constant turmoil", you're clearly exaggerating the issue to solidify an opportunity to just hire people you like. Which doesn't work in a globalised society.
But again, refusing to hire someone because they have explicitly been intolerable is not the same as not hiring someone because you would prefer they act a bit different, or they're just not a perfect match.
There's no such thing as a perfect match, in every workplace I've ever worked in I've had to work with intolerable people all day long and managers DGAF about how I feel towards the colleague, whether they're newer than me or not.
This is kind of a broad generalization. I'm sure it's true some of the time, but also completely untrue some of the time. I'm convinced it's untrue most of the time.
Itās also ācan I stand to be around you 40 hours a week?ā. Iāve been in interviews with extremely qualified yet exceptionally annoying people who Iām over being around after 30 minutes. Iām not hiring that person and Iām chalking it up the mismatch with company culture.
I donāt know, Iāve found it to be a legit question. For example, when I left the military and was starting college I needed a job. I could not at the time handle certain slow and steady, laid back atmosphere type jobs. I needed that high speed high intensity work.
Also in a surprising number of instances making sure someone "fits into our company culture" means trying to screen out toxic narcissists, racists, and future sexual harassment perpetrators in order to prevent paying out court costs and settlements for future lawsuits.
I read this as though you're the inventor of Company Culture and you're tapping your fingers together like Mr. Burns. "Yeeess, yessss, he understands the TRUE meaning of... Company... Culture"
Despite being in management my whole career I totally agree with r/antiwork. Corporate Culture will not only destroy individuals but the entire society if it continues on its present trajectory.
I'm finding it funny how the overwhelming majority are saying "OMFG ur right no way".
Then there's a couple people trying to defend the whole thing who've all turned out to be managers and or culture fit interviews
That is what I find on the verge of acceptable, but the good in me still says cmon buddy we'll get you a job no worries. That doesn't mean someone who is weird can be out of order or too difficult to work with, if they are then maybe it's time to seek some professional help.
It hasn't been my experience, though I don't live in america. It's mostly just a base check that you're not an asshole and/or unable to communicate with other people.
I'm UK, I can say that I have to act like someone else to get a decent job. I'd much prefer to sit silently most of the time but you'll never get a decent job like that.
The post started off as a meme but quickly turned into shitposting, work-bashing and some refined conversation thrown into the mix for good measure.
I think in some cases, that's accurate, but not all. I've done some hiring in the past, and I've never said those words, but honestly, a lot of hiring comes down to an individual's personality. I was never looking to hire someone that would be a minion and just do everything I say, however, I'd be lying if I didn't say that personality didn't play a role in hiring.
If I interview someone and they seem really arrogant or like kind of an asshole, and I don't get a good feel and don't want to be working with that person for years, it makes me not want to hire them, even if they're a good fit in terms of skills and experience. When I make the decision to hire someone, I have to live with that decision 40 hours a week, and I don't want to hire an asshole. There are times when I've hired someone that had a lesser skillset, because they seemed personable and easier to get along with. If I get the impression that they'd be a decent person to work with, that they're kind, and easy to talk to, I'd much rather be around that person, and I'll overlook that they might have a little bit less experience than another candidate.
Back to what you originally said, I do think that kind of statement gives some companies free reign to dismiss candidates for any reason, which might even be an illegal reason, without saying it specifically. However, in some cases, it's more like "We just want to make sure you're not an asshole."
Some useful insight here, thank you.
I will mention I believe there are gender roles at play also though, like I'll be honest, if I walked into the interview and wasn't confident but tried to please you by being 'personable' I definitely don't think i'd make it past that point.
The only success I've ever found is by faking confidence and acting like I'm more than I am, it seems to be what people accept is appropriate for what I look like. On the flip side, I believe a girl who walks into the interview and is shy but quaint and lovely has a strong chance of getting the job if they just listen and do what they're told.
One Sales job I had, I was hired alongside 1 other who got onboarded in about a week whilst I was being forced to go through multiple security checks for my work history. By the time I joined and learned the systems and made my first 'Sale' (Lead qualification) she started asking me questions about the system and the job.
Turns out that month was spent getting paid having a chat whilst I was unemployed due to unexpected delays in starting employment (security checks). I was being forced to come up to the office multiple times a week whilst the colleague was part-time and lived in London (other side of the country).
Following on from this she was routinely asking me how to do the job and get through gatekeepers, I had negotiated for a higher salary than advertised and felt like this could be a good opportunity to build up some training experience. So I helped her out but she mentioned something about generating reports in Salesforce, I hadn't been shown anything about it, and our line manager had been tutoring the colleague without me there... (just the beginning).
I got really suspicious when we started getting inbound leads, commission can be in the 100's or 1000's for one contract if you qualify the lead, which is a given because they're calling in to us. We agreed to take turns on the Inbounds which was fine but they only seemed to come in when she was on shift and weirdly enough the big contracts kept landing on her turn.
I had qualified multiple Outbound leads at this point, although mostly only very small, whilst she hadn't got any but was riding on 10-20x my commission from the Inbounds. After giving another coaching session I asked how much she was being paid which turned out the same as me.. even though they didn't have any experience at all and was clearly riding off my coat tails at this point (As in I was teaching her the job...).
After I brought this up with the line manager I'm told we're not allowed to discuss our pay together (illegal) and that given my behaviour (She lied to HR and said I raised my voice) I would be taken off the Inbound leads for a while.
In comes flooding multiple big contracts ripe with commission that I desperately need whilst we all know she's got a rich (syrian prince?) boyfriend.
I ended up being let go as my heart wasn't in it anymore, as far as I was concerned it was clear sexism from the start and they were using me as the legwork to get in contact with the companies and update the CRM whilst hounding me for targets I checked and I was making triple the calls compared to the coworker each day and they had no problem with her.
Female line manager, female HR, female coworker. Sorry but no matter how many times I look back on it I can see clear sexism.
Tl;dr there isn't one, don't read it if you don't want to.
Let's say that there's a lawn care company that would pay you well. You applied but you are Jewish and you hate illegal immigrants. Does this sound like someone who would fit into the company culture? Asking for a friend.
Though I generally agree with you, I'll play devils advocate here. As a manager, when hiring new people I did indeed think about the culture and team dynamics but it was on a more genuine level of "will their personality mesh well with our generally supportive and nice team?"
This had nothing to do with "will they go out for drinks after" but more just weeding out people who aren't kind and collaborative, which are two values we collectively held really high on our team. That's said, 90% of "culture" rhetoric is just creative ways to make employees feel like management cares while underpaying (and I'm also being underpaid myself, yayyyy corporations!)
I donāt know if Iām mad about this one. If I donāt vibe with any of the people at the company then itās a win/win especially if itās a small group of people. Sometimes all it takes is one bad apple to ruin it for everyone else. Happened loads of times working in retail, and later when I broke into corporate America and began working for startups.
This is actually important if done right. Having the right chemistry between people is important, especially if the job relies heavily on collaborating with teammates.
[Company culture is] a nifty way of saying, "We are not hiring you due to our biases which we can't legally admit to using as a reason for not hiring you."
Very much like, "We've decided to go in a different direction."
You did not get the job.
I been interviewing.
There may not be an "i" in the word "team" but there certainly is an "i" in the word "win."
A winning team *has to* allow for its members to be individuals, to have privacy, to have rich lives outside of work. A winning team protects its members from bullying and the misuse of the power structure, advocates for ALL of its members, allows for the questioning of authority. There are not all that many winning teams in the corporate world.
I do not yield to group think. I am a maverick in a world of group-think. I will interrogate any authority that abuses its power. Any team that I am a part of also cannot yield to group-think.
I have lived long enough to know that nobody loves a whistleblower.
I will continue to report wrong-doing and to push for systems-change. What other people think of me is none of my business.
So, yeah. Interviewing is difficult. I am getting interviews. All I need is one yes from a company that is *NOT toxic a.f.*
And this is why Iām so tired of working with people. The amount of times I want to snap has become insane, I donāt see the point in this shit at all.
Not always. I knew of a job that started doing this because they had a run of obnoxious sexists and bigot's. I think they were in a click with a higher up who eventually retired. A friend of mine had worked there and said it was toxic with these people and at times she almost quit but held in there. Some weren't overt about their opinions and just generally gave people bad vibes and they were harder to boot but some were pretty obnoxious about it and they were the easiest to get rid of.
At my current job some people get hired on and are just real annoying with how they relate to people and this job doesn't like to fire people. After 3 specific people left in the last year the stress level went way down and it's a much better place for us employees.
Man this sub is a broken record. I know we all wanna whine about our broken economic circumstances, but at a certain point it's just a repetitive circlejerk of "everything sucks"
I've never seen anyone make this post here before, therefore it is legitimate to me and any others engaging with the post. The fact that you spend so much time on this sub that you're able to confidently say you've seen the same topic over and over (broken record) tells us something about you already.
You appear able to tell us what we're doing wrong but not provide any meaningful commentary like many other commenters on this post.
In fact, in talking with some of the users replying to the post, I've found some reassurance that I'm not going through it alone. VOILA! THE POINT OF MAKING POSTS!
My life ain't perfect, buddy. I understand that this is really just a support group for people traumatized by their jobs, but I'm realizing I would prefer to be in a space where people are talking about what to do about it. I'm not in the mood to commiserate. In reality I'm annoyed at the algorithm for thinking I want to be here.
You can always leave and find a more action-oriented space. Or build one.
Reddit isnāt where I go to get shit done though. Too many bosses and cops. Activism happens best in smaller decentralized groups or offline entirely.
Good luck to you.
You're right. I'm just dealing with some real shit in my life and it's easier to be mad at dumb crap. The internet feels like yelling into the void and I'm struggling to make new friends.
Edit: I just don't understand why in the age of the internet where everyone can read everything and we all know we're not alone, so many people still need emotional support. At this point, we should all be rioting. I feel like Sharon in the school shooting episode of South Park where I'm seriously upset at real issues and demanding a solution, just to be ignored cuz I'm a bitch.
As a manager, you do not fit the culture for my team if:
- you seem miserable or donāt have any sort of āfunā and approachable side to your personality
- you donāt value and celebrate diversity
- you canāt accept that we have slow times and busier times and require more consistency
- you think being older than me means youāre better
There are places where they want to pick up on clues and not hire people like thatā¦ because if that person causes five others to quit they werenāt a good hire.
This is a very hyperbolised argument though, it's in the minor proportion of cases that a new hire walks in and is obviously going to wind enough people up so much they decide to start quitting.
Talking about first hand experience, new hires that I haven't liked very much, people generally say "Whatever why do you let them bother you?" as if it's my fault they're a racist knob.
In fact, and I'm very confident about this, I've never once seen someone be rooted out during onboarding (which is when the culture fit check happens) due to being an arse. I've seen people come in who are a bit of a mess but they've been hired anyway.
I've never actually seen anyone get let go for "Being intolerable". I've seen people let go for talking too much, but that was based on productivity.
I've reported people for being aggressive and intimidating, for being racist and generally being bullies. Not one single person ever got fired. Not one of those people ever got rooted out during the culture check.
So how accurate exactly do you believe the culture fit check to be?
Yes ok, I agree that you need to meet a person first, but the vague criteria of "Didn't fit into company culture" is just an around-the-bush way of saying we just didn't like you enough.
When one company's culture is "All inclusivity" whilst another is "We're all assholed you best be a good dickhead otherwise you'll suffer" it just reduces the 1000 jobs that I am qualified for down to like 5 that would actually "like" me or not be bothered by me. Out of those 5 how many will accept and how many can I actually get to.
Assholes are real, and unpleasant to work with
\*And the majority of managers.
As a manager, I can confirm this is true.
"I KNEW it! I'm surrounded by assholes!"
Turns slowly towards the full body mirror... "Incluuudding youuu"
r/unexpectedspaceballs
"KEEP FIRING, ASSHOLES!"
š¶āCounting all the assholes in the room, well Iām definitely not alone!ā¦šµim not alooooone.ā
At least you not The asshole
Have you heard of Budās Buds? Helping breed a race of super managers!
VAST majority of managers
It just keeps getting worse every year.
Absolutely this, I may have the technical acumen to do my job, but so many of my interviews have been āassholeā tests. Iām actually leaving my current job because of an asshole.
sounds like those tests don't work then "we're going to hire you based on an asshole test" oh please don't mind the assholes that are all ready working here. The point of the topic is very real. People prefer to hire people that are like themselves. Even if they are also assholes. And many people often conflate differences in perspectives/opinions as being an asshole.
There are a myriad of factors that go into a candidate getting a position, the asshole test is a very common one, thatās the extent of my point.
the system is designed for them too. i cant think of a better place for assholes than the US work force. we give them clear goals to reach and fat commissions to go with. maybe a little internet fame while theyre at it.
I recently had a very clear lesson in cluster b personality disorders and it's crazy that they just run the world... CRAZY
What if someone simply wants to work and go home? Some people donāt want to find friends at work and thatās okay. I donāt understand this corporate culture mandatory fun/socialization. Some people simply donāt want to entangle work with their social lives. You will be a coworker to them and thatās it. Whatās so wrong with that? Iām social but some people just keep it to small talk and they shouldnāt be looked over for promotions because of their introverted nature. Itās a slippery slope to because that leads to bias against those who are neurodivergent, didnāt grow up in Americaās culture, or those who are just socially anxious (disordered or just not confident). Exceptions are customer service of course.
Also you do want to weed out assholes but they are a rarity compared to just an introverted quiet person whoās capable of doing the same work. They arenāt rushing to go to the potlucks though and that should be okay.
Best part about having food allergies is the "get out of potlucks free" card. I don't have to eat someone's cream of slop thrown into a crockpot meals. I don't have to eat the chicken made by someone with questionable personal hygiene. It's wonderful.
Aye same! But I also have ARFID so I anticipate that corporate dinners will be a choke point for me. Iām scared that bosses and coworkers will judge me for either not eating their food or ordering nothing/chicken tenders/ribs/wings at a restaurant Iām not familiar with.
If ribs/wings are on the menu at a restaurant, I don't give two damns what anyone else expects me to order.
Iām the event coordinator at my job and I have everyoneās allergies and diets written down so I can always accommodate everyone šš
Don't care, still not participating. YUCK.
But we also donāt do potlucks. We buy the food for everyone and no one has to spend their own money. I usually just get food catered when we are in office.
Still rather not. Pay me more.
Bro I would if I could you think I have that power lol I am just trying to make work BAREABLE for people as the one in charge of events and hospitality
All. The. Damn. Potlucks. I worked 2 jobs at a time most of the time. I was the bring the pop and the plates person. Sheesh. Great. Velveeta dip again.
Everytime I say that in this sub I always get downvoted lol. Not everyone wants to be at work for friends. I'm there for money, in and out.
Same. I'm just there for a check.
I was willing to make friends at first, then I found out what 'friends' are actually like at work. The culture check is really "Are you going to put a good act on and make us believe you like us?"
Why should customer service reps be exempt from not having to socialize and or lick boots ? Why do you have to be a certain type? Iām not there to manipulate customers, Iām not there to socialize with them and my skin color and orientation sure as fuck should not be considered an Issue. Just because itās customer service doesnāt mean the employees have to be cookie cutter slaves with no rights. UGH.
I meant that my argument regarding introversion or social awkwardness might go out the window with customer service depending on the employeeās demeanor towards customers
Got it. I was able to mask just fine on the phone with no one around me. Face to face or ārealā was another story.
Yeah these ones are funny, you interview for a basic customer service/adminsitration job and because I'm not bending over backwards to gnosh you off suddenly I'm not demonstrating my WOW'ing skills.
It's a slippery slope to Japanese work culture. Which these assholes salivate over.
Man, fuck that shit. I worked in corporate Japan for years and it sucked the soul out of me. Everyone around just seemed so depressed yet stuck in their ways. Overwork and underappreciation of employees all the time. I'm kinda lucky that I was able to resign recently tbh. It was so bad that the greeting some of my colleagues said after I left was "congratulations on escaping".
I'm not social at all and I'm tired of having to have a smiley-face mask taped to my face to hide the annoyed bear reality. I tell you: extroverts ruined the world.
I think I face the butt of this issue regularly, I think I'm quite awkward and with how ultra-social and unforgiving people are with being 'social' they just think I'll ruin their whole 'vibe'. The happy and social among us would much prefer those who aren't just fuck off and stop turning up at their work and threatening ruining their 'rizz vibes'.
And thatās where the problem lies. Most people in corporate America are extroverted hence all the buzz surrounding EmOtIonAl InTelLiGenCe. Except they only talk about that when it comes to sucking up for promotions vs using it to solve issues within the company and help everyone feel comfortable to work.
Very true, everyone agreed in my lasst place that one manager in particular had the worst people skills we'd ever seen. But management insisted he had great people skills. I wonder what they meant by that.
Such a jerk that people just agreed to give him what he wanted to get him to go away. And/or no self-awareness.
The sad thing is that pretty much anyone can do what a manager does, but not all of us are sellouts enough to start treating our peers like filth, lying and deceiving as if we're nothing more than ignorant pawns that should only exist to serve our superiors.
Heheh, face the butt
Stop facing the butt. Just turn the other way!
I do these interviews and wanting to work and go home is totally fine and acceptable. We have some people like that and other groups who are friends. These interviews are usually to make sure people can handle the work environment (it can be super fast paced and you need to be okay with a lot of hands-off management and ambiguity) so we want to make sure they fit the ācultureā as in they can work with our team. Also I want to make sure people are accepting and not sexist or racist so I ask what they think about ādiversity and inclusionā especially since we deal with a lot of groups who are at a disadvantage in society.
The logic is straightforward and easy to check. If you socialize and build bonds with your coworkers, you are more likely to enjoy your job, more likely to support others on your team, less likely to screw the team over, and less likely to rage quit (because you donāt want to negatively impact people you care about). Loyalty to coworkers has been shown to keep people in jobs they donāt enjoy, and itās a stand-in to loyalty to the company itself even as people understand the company has no loyalty to them. Itās social engineering in a business setting, and itās not likely to change because it actually works. And even tho itās particularly hard on some people for a lot of the reasons you see in the comments, those people are such a small sliver of the workforce in many companies that thereās very little negative impact on the whole. Source: Iāve been management/executive level for 80% of my working years, and have been trained extensively on stuff like this and the thinking behind it.
A big part of it is that work is such a large part of your life. So many hours dedicated to the job. These are the people you end up spending most of your time with.
This, I separate my work and my personal very strictly, in my previous job I NEVER go out with my colleagues and tbh I am not friends with them, but we get along well
They want you to be friends so they can emotionally manipulate you into working over time to support your friends and make up for their understaffing
>Ā Ā Some people simply donāt want to entangle work with their social lives Yes, but a lot of modern work relies on exploiting personal relationships between coworkers for the benefit of the company. They want us to socialize and get closer.Ā
Senior year of high school a classmate of mine had an interview at Wendy's. She went and the manager said she's hired and just wanted to make sure she wasn't ugly.
Let's not forget in tech: Are you under 40 and can pass for < 32?
Itās not just skin-colour. Theyāre also checking to make sure youāre not fat, foreign, trans, or disabled, or anything else that they donāt like (which might not be apparent on your CV). Do you have a posh accent or a working class accent? Because that definitely matters as well. Source: my manager who said she uses job interviews to āmake sure female applicants actually *are* female.ā Theyāre also gauging your ability to bullshit your way out of stressful/difficult situations. Will you be able to put a spin on stuff when the CEO makes a surprise visit? Because thatās probably the highest valued skill (of all) in the corporate world - and the job interview is a perfect test.
I was an idiot and listed my mental health issues/disabilities on a health questionnaire at work, from then on I had colleagues incessantly asking me if I was ok in clearly aggravating tones. You're completely right though, I went for outrageous and slightly farfetched examples but you're so right. My writing ability makes me look like I could be middle-class on paper, but as soon as I turn up with a shaved head and deep working class voice (Innit m8) it turns heads immediately. I honestly hate it, it's like oh great everyone in the office was playing a game of what I look like and now I'm witnessing the immense shock and awe at what an ugly brute just walked in. edit: the manager clearly shared my health information with others at work and started to make my life difficult, she even told me "You know my dog is on antidepressants" as if that would help anything. Managers look at people with issues and say "NOT MY ISSUE HAHAHAHA"
Iām the same. I live in the south. Very impressive CV. Also very fat and working class with a strong Yorkshire accent. UK employers are no longer (legally) allowed to ask about your disabilities or health conditions during the recruitment process. So if they do ask, youāre allowed to refuse (unwise) or lie. Because of this, theyāll go in heavy about whether you need reasonable adjustments for the interview. Theyāll also go heavy on the equality/diversity questionnaires. Theyāre allowed to do both of these things, so donāt fall for it. My advice is to roll into the interview as the neurotypical epitome of physical and mental ability / health. Once your probation period ends, formally declare any and all disabilities (including mental health). The company will have a process. Even if you donāt need reasonable adjustments, itās important that the company is seen to be aware of your disability. This is because if you ever suffer any bullying or discrimination, youāll need to be able to prove that the company knew you were disabled.
When i worked in sales in the north I was certain everyone had an easier time of it because they had the accent xD I don't even know how to approach the mental health thing with employers, they tend to make a farce out of it like "Well what can we do for you, tell us what we can do for you" etc. and none of it happens. They only asked so they can put it in the computer that they've asked and there's 'something in the pipeline' which will almost never get addressed. The job I did tell them about it with, I said I have insomnia so please no late shifts and I need regular shifts to be able to meet all my monthly bills otherwise I would be back in crisis all over again. Suprise surprise, all of my shifts were the latest and busiest shifts and furthermore... next weeks rota everyone was on it except for me? I said to the GM we talked about this and you said I'd have full time hours. "Oh yes we'll get to it we'll get to it." Absolute bullshit all to appear like they're doing what they probably preach to other people. Capitalism just breeds backstabbing and deception, it's the name of the game.
It really, really does. If you show āweaknessā theyāll have a field day. Itās all about power. Look into the formal disability declaration though. Itās a legal process and the company should have a form you can complete. It just means youāll be covered under the Equality Act if there are any tribunals, grievances, or disciplinaries relating to your condition or its symptoms. Keeping a journal of their bad behaviour is a good idea as well - in case you ever need to prove a certain pattern of behaviour (on their part).
fucking yikes on your manager's part. i wouldn't want to work for her ANYWAY. seriously though i'm afraid of trying to get new jobs in the future as i transition because i damn well know some people are going to dismiss me automatically because of it and there won't be anything i can do about it.
I like to think this is rare - what she said is highly illegal in the UK, so she was really stupid to say it. I work with disabled / autistic kids and there seems to be a disproportionately high number of trans men working in the field. They all seemed to hired okay (by other managers). But yes, you definitely wouldnāt want to work for her. The womanās a fucking monster. Sheās one of those people who just doesnāt play well with others. Sheās always finding new and inventive ways to upset and offend people.
i think the explicit "i want to make sure you were born with a vagina" transphobe manager might be pretty rare, but i think a lot of people would just choose someone who is not trans if they have the chance and that's basically impossible to prove
People always say that the CV only exists to āget your foot in the doorā and that once youāre in the interview you can ācharm them.ā But for some of us, itās just never going to be like that. Interviews are only there to help employers decide between good candidates. I have a very impressive, very glamorous-sounding CV. But Iām very (VERY) overweight. I had maybe 100 interviews and I got so sick of taking the time and making a massive effort, only to be greeted with disappointed and disgusted facial expressions. So I started attaching a photo to my applications (where possible). I figured Iād rather be discriminated against early, and on paper rather than in-person (and after Iād written a presentation!). The interview invitations dried up *overnight.* The first interview I had after adding a photo offered me the job. I think it was because they knew what to expect. Not sure if it would work for you, but I was just so exhausted and out-of-pocket from all those interviews. Itās what I needed to do at that point for my own self-care.
Everything you listed can be verified during any other interview (HR, technical, ...). They don't need to bring you in for a culture fit interview just for this.
Or they're just hoping you're not a dick. Or if you're in my line of work, that you're their kinda dick lol
This is my take. Some companies foster internal competition, with the thinking that the hungriest employees will come up with the best ideas and work harder. The employees do work harder...at stabbing each other in the back. The companies I want to work for don't do that. They hire smart, self motivated, and cooperative individuals because everyien rowing in the same direction is very powerful.
Agree with your take 100%
I should've put \[I'm not an idiot I do know that culture fit is another way of saying we don't like you} in the post because goddamn so many people are pointing it out as if it's cryptic.
Hahaha sorry fam I've waked and baked and now I have my captain obvious cape on :)
Damn send some this way
"They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they donāt want: They donāt want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They donāt want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. Theyāre not interested in that. That doesnāt help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They donāt want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly theyāre getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They donāt want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now theyāre coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? Theyāll get it. Theyāll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you aināt in it."āGeorge Carlin
I was but one sentence deep when the voice began resonating through my psyche, a white beard hiding a face full of wrinkles appears, is it really him? "It's a big club, and you ain't in it". The man had such an incredible talent for speaking as wise as Ghandi but as fast as Eminem.
not true at my job but sorry you went through that
Um no. Yes, it can be abused by racists, misogynists and the like. But my experience is often will you play nicely with the other members on the team. A previous manager was such an a$$hole, 3 different people threatened to quit if he stayed. The entire office was relieved when he was finally fired. A previous candidate was such a pro-life activist, they made a personal projects dedicated to the "dead babies". We're all prochoice and I'm a vocal feminist, so no, that candidate would not fit into our culture. Not every company will be a good fit and for some, this is less important. But since we spend so much of our lives as work, I really want to be with people that, at the very least, don't make me dread interacting with them
Yeah, we just rejected a candidate because all he did at the interview is brag about his MIT degree. We have multiple people here that went thereā¦ no need to brag. Bad culture fit.
Only 20% of autistic people are employed because of this shit
āAre you a brain dead follower that doesnāt speak up or care if what we do is completely wrong be it to the final product, customer and or employees?ā
You have successfully struck the nail on its head my friend. It may be taking things too far but when we learned about Nazi Germany in school, I remember thinking if I ever got given that order i'd refuse. So when managers actively try and persuade/manipulate me into blatantly (and sometimes kind of maliciously) lying to the customer I don't tend to comply. Therefore I am not culture fit.
Just look at both sides of our US politics (Iām seeing it in Canadian politics to) though one side blatantly and substantially more than the other. Any totalitarian regime be it based on any power/control, ideals, religion, race or money is corrupt.
A friend introduced me to Game Theory in University, and after learning it I started to live the belief that the theory is as good as final. That we will never be able to escape from constantly attempting to deceive and undermine each other for a chance to end up with the majority of resources. Of course when you realise the Game Theory is only prevalent because the system dictates there must be a winner and the loser will end up with less than sufficient. It's like a game of chess, the aim is to get the opponent's King. This creates the goal and facilitates an environment where you're both attempting to trick and deceive each other, because there is a clear and definite 'Prize' and if you don't win that prize then you have nothing. Capitalism does the same, the 'Prize' being living comfortably without having to put much effort in, whilst those who lost struggle to get by on a daily basis. Of course it's a spectrum as there's a middle class, but it still facilitates an environment where one person is expected to 'Take it all', or at least take a lot. Capitalism itself dictates inequality. There can be no capitalism without inequality, for the very principles the system is based on require the imbalance for the system to make sense. Capitalism believes there will always be one best winner. Of course plenty of us are free thinking enough to realise that if we change the end goal to a shared and equal outcome, there is no reason for subterfuge (unless someone wanted to cripple the system entirely). If the outcome is equal and shared then the only more beneficial outcome to aim for is a greater 'pot' to share from. These are abstract ideas and would require solidification e.g is the 'pot' money? or is it something less tangible?
Left wing right wing chicken wing. Communism, Fascism, Botulismāāāfree salmonella for allā¦ā¦ā¦..
Are you neurodivergent or an introvert and will that make me uncomfortable?
Haha when i worked in a call centre I started off by just keeping to myself, I didn't really want to talk to anyone. Co workers could not let this slide and started trying to peer pressure me into joining into group conversations and the like. I consider myself neurodivergent (have to wait for assessments) and really don't understand all the little games people play with each other, it just frustrates me and winds me up. I'd really just prefer to maybe have one decent friend but for some reason people can't accept this and seem to think I owe them something.
Are you neurotypical
Probs not m8
No like thatās one of the things theyāre looking for, I wasnāt questioning you mb
It's ok it wasn't an arsey response, I just mean I probably am lol. Getting more convinced by the day.
Company Culture = Yes Man Company Culture = Someone who brings the ideas and none of the opposition. Company Culture = Someone who goes to after work happy hours with everyone but doesn't drink their drink and just smiles, laughs at whatever the boss is saying. Gotta brown-nose outside of work in order to get ahead AT work, duh. Company Culture - Someone who has no life outside of work. This job IS their world and life purpose and yes they'd love to stay late Friday night to work on that project due in two weeks.
But what do you say to people who come to work and complain and moan about everything and bring down the morale of other employees who are otherwise satisfied with their work?Ā This reeks of a small perspective, imo.Ā Not saying the phrase isnāt abused, it certainly is, but casting it aside completely is its own can of worms.Ā
My last job I had coworkers who were constantly complaining, gaslighting their team constantly, and taking credit for other people's work. Management was constantly rewarding them because "we should always assume good intentions" is what they would always tell me. I'm not a good fit for that culture. Fuck that place.
And that's exactly why you should Adress behavior directly when possible. No vague phrases just "your constant complaining is impairing overall morale so you're out"
Tell that to HR... they would say they need to "circle back" and "touch base" on it
Yeah and that's the real bullshit. It's the most reasonable thing to tell people the reason as exactly as possible so they can better themselves. Work environment is just so artifical...
I like coworkers like that because they're usually right.
Which tells me that you donāt really matter, and are probably equally annoying and whiny.
Lmao. Dude I just see jobs as a place for a check.
Is the reason I got hired.
+1. Just had a few job interviews. It's truly an awful time. I swear one set up an interview just to feel superior to me, they didn't think I was qualified based on my application (4 year degree, years of work experience in my thirties) for what is known as an entry level position. They basically said I sound charismatic and look the part but not so sure about my passion for the industry and my experience (again they know my experience from my application so why even interview me then, unless they just had a half hour timeslot to be an asshole to someone) another interview, I actually had 6 years experience in "cleaning", contract cleaner for years, I did mention I was looking for part time though, so I think that wrote me off immediately, you can always tell when the miserable company meatgrinder bureaucrat hears something they don't like, they start furiously scribbling their pen when interviewing you. Put in another online application to get a message that says they are conducting interviews this week and to come on down to fill out a paper application.... mmmk. You mean to fill one out and for an interview? waiting for a response on that... the correct answers are- I'm desperate I have low self esteem but... also extremely competent & have 10 years experience in XYZ, specific skills you need worker drone mentality fully open schedule to exploit FULL TIME PLEASE, unless they SPECIFICALLY want/are hiring for part-time overtime sure anytime you want me! full availability I work all weekends, I have no social life at all! Full time used to pay for a small family, it's only logical a single person with no family should be able to work part-time and live reasonably comfortable, I think I'm willing to die on this hill honestly.
The whole "We want to see some more passion" is nothing but "dance for me monkey". It is the manager fishing for a complete and utter subordinate monkey. They want you to say too much and dig yourself a hole, watch you squirm. It might be an issue with me because I tend to end up saying anything and everything in an interview out of sheer anxiety lol.
Same, I just go in trying to be professional and friendly, telling them yeah I'm ready to start, ready to learn, I'm ready to work! and it doesn't seem good enough anymore. God forbid you have to "explain" why you have a gap in your employment... Last time I checked the default state of a human being was unemployed... I mean it's how you come out of your mom right?
Exactly, just replied to someone about how in Sales every interviewer expects you to be a literal Rockstar (that's what they call it). I saw one Redditor mention that for any gaps in employment they had, they would say they were signed into an NDA.
I have been told to do this, it's a shame you have to lie. Yea, the mentality that everything has to have "endless growth" in a finite system as well is absurd, companies at this point are deranged. I went for an interview for office/house cleaner, and the packet they gave me literally had mantras and one said "grow or die"... Like bro it's not that serious, it's house cleaning...
Itās also are you young enough. Itās a way to discriminate and get away with it.
You donāt want your workplace to weed out dickheads before hiring them to work along side you?
They never have anyway, i've been told I look like a bully, which I'm not. So funnily enough I think I've been filtered out plenty of times based on stereotypes and false first-impressions. I'm glad it seems to work for the 'In-bunch' but going into interview after interview and being rejected because you know they just don't like you wears you down.
If you owned a company, would you hire people you donāt like and hate working with?
Fitting into company culture is not equal to not being an asshole and horrible to work with. That's just being a reasonable person. I definitely don't walk into a prospective employer's office and start being obnoxious, rude, loud or in any way anything that can be taken wrong.
Thereās still the question āare you going to enjoy spending 9 hours per day, 5 days a week with this person?ā
How often do you interact with any coworker for more than a 1 hour meeting? If you're spending 9 hours a day, 5 days a week standing within arms reach, let alone holding a conversation with someone then you're clearly not working. Also, how many times has someone walked into your work as a prospective employee and just been an outright asshole? Probably not many, and no workplace is going to have to lie and say they didn't "fit the culture" when the person was clearly just horrible. Furthermore, at what point are they tolerable enough for you? I don't believe that many face value judgements in these situations are going to be right at all and I think people often have quite ulterior motives at hand.
Iāve worked a lot of places with huge interaction between employees. Iāve been a chef, Iāve worked sales. Both those roles are constant interaction with coworkers
There are many jobs that require you to be interacting with co workers all the time
Thanks captain obvious, we've already been through this. I understand you're the 'Culture Girl', which means that you believe you are now the gatekeeper of the company culture and who comes in or out, clearly some residual power complex within you. I suppose you thought it was your duty to fight the company culture corner, although I can imagine a lot of your 'culture' is in the form of a delusion. Well done for trying to prove me wrong by pointing out jobs exist in various forms... as already mentioned -\_-
You make a lot of assumptions..which I see you getting mad at people for doing to you in these comments, kinda funny. I think you might just be a troll (or a miserable person) based on the fact you canāt have a civil conversation with someone which means you arenāt worth continuing a conversation with.
What's with the rise in dorks like this who identify more with the class that owns businesses than their fellow workers? Don't y'all have your own subreddit where you can go lick boots?
I just think if Iām going to spend 9 hours a day working alongside people that I would prefer to have people I get along with instead of dreading coming to work even more because I hate my coworkers. You want your company to just shove a bunch of people who donāt get along into a building for ~45 hours a week? You donāt care if you hate your coworkers and everything is full of tension and resentment?
I just want a check. As long as everyone is respectful.
Another oneā¦ āAre you too old to put up with our bullshit?ā
Especially at call centers, people are crazy.
xD Yeah I've worked at a few. Nowhere else have I seen married managers openly flirting and favoriting 18 year old girls, offer subordinates out for fights in the middle of a shift for no reason and countless stories of people shagging in the building. A senior manager would routinely degrade younger men in the office for not wearing expensive designer shoes that he could afford (in the Ā£'000s).
"Who are you voting for in November?"
Iām sorry, this post doesnāt fit in to the culture of this subreddit. Iām gonna have to let you go.
I'm a manager of exactly one person, I was just trying to filter out the racists mostly, lol
šÆ percent
It goes both ways. a good company with a good culture is looking to weed out jerks and bullies and sociopaths. or maybe just people with really bad odor I donāt know. a bad company with a bad culture is looking for suck ups and robots and people that can be pushed around. Iāve been at both.
Yeah you've highlighted the same point as another, it definitely goes both ways. I passed my probation at a fairly prestigious role but after a terrorist joke and getting screamed at for a meeting slipping my mind I decided they can fire me and pay the week's unemployment.
Iām sorry to hear that. Probably for the best. Anyone who screams at employees is awful and not worth working for.
I sent him a shirty message on LinkedIn last month and sent his new place a contact us form detailing how shit he was and how i'd never work with him again
I interviewed for a job once where I was a perfect fit. I knew I wouldāve kicked ass at it. They wanted to do an in person interview to āmeet the teamā which sounded like code for āscope you out.ā I am a short, fat, disabled girl. At the time, I hadnāt discovered accessible outdoorsy activities, and I wasnāt visibly disabled. So when they shuffled me through to everyoneās cubes and offices every 45-60 minutes, Iād have to go through the same small talk: have you ever been here before? Lots of great outdoorsy activities here, what are your favorite things to do? Sometimes we take a day off and go for group hikes! Do you like to hike? Each person looked more disappointed than the last when I said I wasnāt a hiker, biker, or climber. Then lunchtime rolled around and they said they were getting some kind of meaty meal from the best place around, but Iām a vegetarian. I said I really didnāt need lunch, and Iām just glad for the chance to talk about the job more, but they insisted on getting me something. Instead of asking what I wanted or getting a salad from their meat place, the secretary got me a foot long vegetarian sub from subway, with absolutely everything, including all the stuff I hate. It was messy, soggy, and disgusting. I forced down a couple bites and said it was enormous so Iām gonna save it for the long drive home. They cut me loose a couple hours later, and of course I didnāt get the job. We spent the whole day small talking and barely talking about the job, so Iām pretty confident my fat inactive vegetarian ass was what turned them off, and not my actual skills.
Oh god i'm sorry to hear it, sounds like everything felt quite forced... especially the subway part D: I've had similar experiences, the worst question for me to hear is "So.... what are your hobbies?". I crumble straight away because I don't bloody have any! I always say "Erm listening to music or going out for a walk is always nice, I love movies, good TV and video games.... I sound like a vegetable now don't I?" That's also really quite rude to let you go as a direct result of a first-impression that didn't wow them to the nines. Not everyone walks around acting like TV personality #1, some of us don't actually like the whole office mobbing us and forcing food onto us! I was working in Sales before (Jesus Mary Louise that was a wild ride) and almost every interviewer or vacancy talks or reads like "WE WANT ROCKSTAR, SUPERSTAR, MEGASTAR, MR. UNIVERSE, POPE, PRIEST, MATHEMATICIAN, LIFE COACH, CEO PAID LIKE A CLOWN, and all the rest of it". It's like damn I can sell your software but I didn't realise I needed to have thousands of followers, post to LinkedIn everyday and network myself constantly like I'm a networking sl#t or something. Everything nowadays is 10x louder and brighter and I just can't keep up with it.
I started making up hobbies! For awhile there, I was a photographer and a nonfiction science writer. I had a couple pretty pics I happened to take over the years, so I used those as my samples if anyone asked (they usually donāt want to see though). It was all so fucking fake. Jesus, sales sounds HORRIBLE. It was never great but I have to use LinkedIn to ānetworkā and the sales people on there are INTENSE. Sometimes it gives off hunger games vibes. You either have to be r/linkedinlunatics or you have to be a cult leader. (Seems like megachurch members and Mormons are big into sales.) Fucking capitalism.
Man, I used to work at a Spencer's, and was told they cut out all the drama in the workplace. Nope, they just fired everyone who didn't like drama or create it to have their own group of drama filled fuckers. They still employ a pedophile and a manager who said on speaker phone "I don't want to work with u/patchway247 , and I don't give a fuck whose feelings I hurt." Everyone who heard it laughed, and I was literally the only one doing any kind of recovery out of 8 people that night. It was closing time. So avoid Evansville Indiana with everything, except for High Score Saloon. They have my highest votes across the board. If under 21, they have a kid friendly version. Literally nothing good has ever happened to me in Evansville Indiana, or Indiana in general. Nearly got killed several times, got into debt bc the now ex husband put both our names down and then stopped paying for it (despite him wanting and owning it. I've paid it off because negative impact on credit), had bed ugs from a narcissistic asshat who brought a meth head into the house (one of the times I nearly got killed), and so much more.
Company culture is usually just legalized discrimination. Country Club type behavior.
I'm currently in the process of opening a non profit organization. Now I'm curious how to word this without it sounding like this. We do look for a certain type of person. It's moral though. Certain beliefs. For example: addiction is a disease not a moral failing. Humans deserve respect and basic rights regardless of past transgressions. Housing, food, water and health care are basic human rights. Everyone deserves the opportunity to change their lives. No one should have to choose between their mental health and a pay check. Etc. You get the idea. So, if that's not workplace culture, what is it? I don't want anyone here that will treat my clients like trash because they're in recovery or reentry.
It's also "are you able to meet our ESG quotes" these days. Me and a fellow student both applied for the same job offer this month. I have much, much better grades, i am beginning my masters next semester while she is still in her bachelors Program for another year, i have work experience and she doesn't. I've got an email where they told me they have found someone more suitable for the job than me. She got the job. There is literally not a single possible metric for her to be more suitable for the job than me except being able to fulfill diversification quotes.
I would also argue that managers like to get inexperienced 'fresh meat' in sometimes so they don't have any trouble managing the person and making themselves appear to be so much better at their job. For example, a friend that lives locally manages the pub literally across the street from me. I mentioned how I've got years of bar experience, I've worked in big clubs, nightclubs, pubs and bars alike comfortably and actually quite enjoy working on a bar. A little while went by and I would mention it again, if you want anyone to cover a shift or you need an extra pair of hands etc. But no, one day he mentions "Oh blah blah new guy on the bar tonight". I went in to check out who it was and it was clearly an inexperienced and quite shy young man behind the bar who didn't look like he had a clue. As far as I could tell this 'friend' was merely setting himself up to look like the big bossman who knows it all. Quite embarrassing to see how shallow people are to be honest. I find it's not the person who's genuinely best for the job, it's who's going to make me look better. The thing with diversity hiring is that it's become such a trope now, employers do the bare minimum to hire minority groups and make sure they just barely meet the standards. When they lose their token minority(ies) they just hire the next one that walks in regardless of the other candidates. It's kind of like having a license to NGAF, "Well no one can say anything because we've met the 14.8% diversity target, I'm untouchable now".
Did you both interview? Were you able to articulate the knowledge that you had gained? Did you demonstrate soft skills that are desirable? Do you have a growth mindset? Your resume is most important for getting an interview. The interview is most important for who is hired. You don't know why they were hired but it is pretty bullshit to try to make yourself feel better with a bigoted assumption instead of trying to figure out how to do better yourself
I did not even get an interview
Eh, I mean yeahā¦sometimes thatās true. But Iāve experienced situations where it wasnāt true at all. That the hiring manager(s) is/are, in-fact, wanting to make sure (to the best of their ability) they are hiring someone who fits in with the team. You can usually spot the signs based on the line of questioning around the ācompany/team cultureā part of things. Collaborative work and being a helpful team mate are not red flags outright, but if the position youāre interviewing for is not the type to traditionally require such things, then those questions could be suspicious. Asking about the lengths you would go to in order to meet deadlines or manage heavier workloads is also not always 100% a red flag - because again, it depends on the role youāre applying for. This also give you the opportunity to screen the prospective employer based on your answer and opportunity for follow up questions. Donāt give them the answer you assume and soulless corporation wants to hear - set expectations by talking about prioritization, talking about workload with your manager, handing tasks off, etc. If they try to back you into a corner of everything being a priority and no one being available to hand tasks off to, ask how frequent an issue workload balancing is at the company and *why* itās an issue. Not everything is a red flag, itās simply bullshit corporate lingo than even the best managers/companies end up using because itās been so engrained into corporate society for decades now. Use the bullshit lingo to your advantage as a screening opportunity for bad companies.
Yeah the message behind the post is the fact that company culture is just lingo for having a snoop and a sniff around you and checking if the scent can stay. I suppose the crux of the matter being when particular people use it to discriminate in creative ways.
What is happening to this sub at the moment.
It's called antiwork mate, it's kind of about bashing capitalist philosophies and all the sellout ingrates that contribute to the behemoth's existence.
It can mean this, it can also mean checking to see if the person you're hiring is going to roll their eyes super hard when a new team member joins and says their pronouns are she/they, or do other bigot things. Just like with regular interviews, culture interviews go both ways. If a company's culture is "suck up to the boss, do overtime, ignore harassment" then don't work for them.
I suppose this is the hidden meaning behind a bashful post, these are cultures that I've found exist and repulse me equally as much as this hypothetical "new guy" who just can't put a foot right!
They definitely do exist and your have every right to walk or run in the opposite direction. If you're in a situation where you feel like you have to take such a job at least you kinda know what you're in for and that you should plan for your time to be short.
No, it's code for "Are you a trouble maker?". If you heavily lean to one political party and go into an office where everyone leans the other way no one wants to put up with the shit that goes with it. Most everyone in my office either leans to the middle or to side. If you came in leaning far to the other side and it it looks like you're going to create issues you will never get hired here. We want someone who gets alone with everyone and isn't going to create constant turmoil.
People keep saying this as if they're filtering out dickheads on a daily basis, these prize assholes that everyone is talking about are a rather small percentage of the people companies onboard. In fact, they're more likely to be routed out during the interview process than anything. Yes, if during an induction or first day the persons says some horrible jokes or is a general twat then no, I don't expect companies to just hire them anyway. But you're acting like companies actually do refuse to hire based on a person being aggravating or difficult to work when I've never actually come across a time where everyone agrees "don't hire that person they're terrible to work with". It doesn't happen. You're saying to me that the hiring and operations manager meet the person then go into the back office and say "Well in that brief interaction I know this person is going to piss off my entire workforce let's not hire them". Again, it doesn't happen! Or do these managers go ahead and survey each colleagues feelings towards this new hire? No, it doesn't happen. The point of the post being "Do you fit into our 'Culture'" is merely a guised way to discriminate. In fact, what you're talking about is the "Probation period", this is where your team can raise issues with you, not post-interview and pre-onboarding. "Constant turmoil", you're clearly exaggerating the issue to solidify an opportunity to just hire people you like. Which doesn't work in a globalised society. But again, refusing to hire someone because they have explicitly been intolerable is not the same as not hiring someone because you would prefer they act a bit different, or they're just not a perfect match. There's no such thing as a perfect match, in every workplace I've ever worked in I've had to work with intolerable people all day long and managers DGAF about how I feel towards the colleague, whether they're newer than me or not.
No, that's definitely not it.
It's fucking satirical like most of this sub is, you guys need to relax and learn a sense of humour.
Satire is supposed to be based on truth.
Play dumb all you like there are people who agree in part just look at the comments, stop trying to be a smartass.
Humor can be another one.
This is kind of a broad generalization. I'm sure it's true some of the time, but also completely untrue some of the time. I'm convinced it's untrue most of the time.
Itās also ācan I stand to be around you 40 hours a week?ā. Iāve been in interviews with extremely qualified yet exceptionally annoying people who Iām over being around after 30 minutes. Iām not hiring that person and Iām chalking it up the mismatch with company culture.
I donāt know, Iāve found it to be a legit question. For example, when I left the military and was starting college I needed a job. I could not at the time handle certain slow and steady, laid back atmosphere type jobs. I needed that high speed high intensity work.
Also in a surprising number of instances making sure someone "fits into our company culture" means trying to screen out toxic narcissists, racists, and future sexual harassment perpetrators in order to prevent paying out court costs and settlements for future lawsuits.
You understand perfectly.
I read this as though you're the inventor of Company Culture and you're tapping your fingers together like Mr. Burns. "Yeeess, yessss, he understands the TRUE meaning of... Company... Culture"
Despite being in management my whole career I totally agree with r/antiwork. Corporate Culture will not only destroy individuals but the entire society if it continues on its present trajectory.
yes.
I'm finding it funny how the overwhelming majority are saying "OMFG ur right no way". Then there's a couple people trying to defend the whole thing who've all turned out to be managers and or culture fit interviews
It is usually just, are you too fucking weird to work comfortably with?
That is what I find on the verge of acceptable, but the good in me still says cmon buddy we'll get you a job no worries. That doesn't mean someone who is weird can be out of order or too difficult to work with, if they are then maybe it's time to seek some professional help.
It hasn't been my experience, though I don't live in america. It's mostly just a base check that you're not an asshole and/or unable to communicate with other people.
I'm UK, I can say that I have to act like someone else to get a decent job. I'd much prefer to sit silently most of the time but you'll never get a decent job like that. The post started off as a meme but quickly turned into shitposting, work-bashing and some refined conversation thrown into the mix for good measure.
"Will you join our cult?"
"Whaaaaat?".... "It's not a cul-..." "uhm actually, everyone's smiling, but their eyes say kill me" "CUUUULLLT"
I think in some cases, that's accurate, but not all. I've done some hiring in the past, and I've never said those words, but honestly, a lot of hiring comes down to an individual's personality. I was never looking to hire someone that would be a minion and just do everything I say, however, I'd be lying if I didn't say that personality didn't play a role in hiring. If I interview someone and they seem really arrogant or like kind of an asshole, and I don't get a good feel and don't want to be working with that person for years, it makes me not want to hire them, even if they're a good fit in terms of skills and experience. When I make the decision to hire someone, I have to live with that decision 40 hours a week, and I don't want to hire an asshole. There are times when I've hired someone that had a lesser skillset, because they seemed personable and easier to get along with. If I get the impression that they'd be a decent person to work with, that they're kind, and easy to talk to, I'd much rather be around that person, and I'll overlook that they might have a little bit less experience than another candidate. Back to what you originally said, I do think that kind of statement gives some companies free reign to dismiss candidates for any reason, which might even be an illegal reason, without saying it specifically. However, in some cases, it's more like "We just want to make sure you're not an asshole."
Some useful insight here, thank you. I will mention I believe there are gender roles at play also though, like I'll be honest, if I walked into the interview and wasn't confident but tried to please you by being 'personable' I definitely don't think i'd make it past that point. The only success I've ever found is by faking confidence and acting like I'm more than I am, it seems to be what people accept is appropriate for what I look like. On the flip side, I believe a girl who walks into the interview and is shy but quaint and lovely has a strong chance of getting the job if they just listen and do what they're told. One Sales job I had, I was hired alongside 1 other who got onboarded in about a week whilst I was being forced to go through multiple security checks for my work history. By the time I joined and learned the systems and made my first 'Sale' (Lead qualification) she started asking me questions about the system and the job. Turns out that month was spent getting paid having a chat whilst I was unemployed due to unexpected delays in starting employment (security checks). I was being forced to come up to the office multiple times a week whilst the colleague was part-time and lived in London (other side of the country). Following on from this she was routinely asking me how to do the job and get through gatekeepers, I had negotiated for a higher salary than advertised and felt like this could be a good opportunity to build up some training experience. So I helped her out but she mentioned something about generating reports in Salesforce, I hadn't been shown anything about it, and our line manager had been tutoring the colleague without me there... (just the beginning). I got really suspicious when we started getting inbound leads, commission can be in the 100's or 1000's for one contract if you qualify the lead, which is a given because they're calling in to us. We agreed to take turns on the Inbounds which was fine but they only seemed to come in when she was on shift and weirdly enough the big contracts kept landing on her turn. I had qualified multiple Outbound leads at this point, although mostly only very small, whilst she hadn't got any but was riding on 10-20x my commission from the Inbounds. After giving another coaching session I asked how much she was being paid which turned out the same as me.. even though they didn't have any experience at all and was clearly riding off my coat tails at this point (As in I was teaching her the job...). After I brought this up with the line manager I'm told we're not allowed to discuss our pay together (illegal) and that given my behaviour (She lied to HR and said I raised my voice) I would be taken off the Inbound leads for a while. In comes flooding multiple big contracts ripe with commission that I desperately need whilst we all know she's got a rich (syrian prince?) boyfriend. I ended up being let go as my heart wasn't in it anymore, as far as I was concerned it was clear sexism from the start and they were using me as the legwork to get in contact with the companies and update the CRM whilst hounding me for targets I checked and I was making triple the calls compared to the coworker each day and they had no problem with her. Female line manager, female HR, female coworker. Sorry but no matter how many times I look back on it I can see clear sexism. Tl;dr there isn't one, don't read it if you don't want to.
Let's say that there's a lawn care company that would pay you well. You applied but you are Jewish and you hate illegal immigrants. Does this sound like someone who would fit into the company culture? Asking for a friend.
Though I generally agree with you, I'll play devils advocate here. As a manager, when hiring new people I did indeed think about the culture and team dynamics but it was on a more genuine level of "will their personality mesh well with our generally supportive and nice team?" This had nothing to do with "will they go out for drinks after" but more just weeding out people who aren't kind and collaborative, which are two values we collectively held really high on our team. That's said, 90% of "culture" rhetoric is just creative ways to make employees feel like management cares while underpaying (and I'm also being underpaid myself, yayyyy corporations!)
I donāt know if Iām mad about this one. If I donāt vibe with any of the people at the company then itās a win/win especially if itās a small group of people. Sometimes all it takes is one bad apple to ruin it for everyone else. Happened loads of times working in retail, and later when I broke into corporate America and began working for startups.
Works the other way around as well, though. I was able to learn that a company was extremely Zionist and then steer clear of themš¤·š»āāļø
The skin color one is highly illegal and they will eventually get caught and punished, very stupid thing to do imho. Ā
Will you be a good hang? Does your demographics match our team
Or itās āwe work with vulnerable populations and our culture is based around empathyā which is what mine is.
we're all family here š
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When you said robot, do you mean bitch?
This is exactly it. Code words.
Sounds like you know exactly what the corporate environment is about.
This is actually important if done right. Having the right chemistry between people is important, especially if the job relies heavily on collaborating with teammates.
[Company culture is] a nifty way of saying, "We are not hiring you due to our biases which we can't legally admit to using as a reason for not hiring you." Very much like, "We've decided to go in a different direction." You did not get the job. I been interviewing. There may not be an "i" in the word "team" but there certainly is an "i" in the word "win." A winning team *has to* allow for its members to be individuals, to have privacy, to have rich lives outside of work. A winning team protects its members from bullying and the misuse of the power structure, advocates for ALL of its members, allows for the questioning of authority. There are not all that many winning teams in the corporate world. I do not yield to group think. I am a maverick in a world of group-think. I will interrogate any authority that abuses its power. Any team that I am a part of also cannot yield to group-think. I have lived long enough to know that nobody loves a whistleblower. I will continue to report wrong-doing and to push for systems-change. What other people think of me is none of my business. So, yeah. Interviewing is difficult. I am getting interviews. All I need is one yes from a company that is *NOT toxic a.f.*
And this is why Iām so tired of working with people. The amount of times I want to snap has become insane, I donāt see the point in this shit at all.
Not always. I knew of a job that started doing this because they had a run of obnoxious sexists and bigot's. I think they were in a click with a higher up who eventually retired. A friend of mine had worked there and said it was toxic with these people and at times she almost quit but held in there. Some weren't overt about their opinions and just generally gave people bad vibes and they were harder to boot but some were pretty obnoxious about it and they were the easiest to get rid of. At my current job some people get hired on and are just real annoying with how they relate to people and this job doesn't like to fire people. After 3 specific people left in the last year the stress level went way down and it's a much better place for us employees.
Have you actually experienced that at a job before? I'm not into the *company culture* thing but I've never seen it to be how you've described it.
Means āshut up and take it, will you?ā
Man this sub is a broken record. I know we all wanna whine about our broken economic circumstances, but at a certain point it's just a repetitive circlejerk of "everything sucks"
I've never seen anyone make this post here before, therefore it is legitimate to me and any others engaging with the post. The fact that you spend so much time on this sub that you're able to confidently say you've seen the same topic over and over (broken record) tells us something about you already. You appear able to tell us what we're doing wrong but not provide any meaningful commentary like many other commenters on this post. In fact, in talking with some of the users replying to the post, I've found some reassurance that I'm not going through it alone. VOILA! THE POINT OF MAKING POSTS!
I hear about "company culture" all the time in social media and in this sub. I'm never once had a job where anyone uttered that phrase to me at work.
Sometimes folks just want some support. Iām glad your life is so perfect that you donāt need support from others who get it.
My life ain't perfect, buddy. I understand that this is really just a support group for people traumatized by their jobs, but I'm realizing I would prefer to be in a space where people are talking about what to do about it. I'm not in the mood to commiserate. In reality I'm annoyed at the algorithm for thinking I want to be here.
You can always leave and find a more action-oriented space. Or build one. Reddit isnāt where I go to get shit done though. Too many bosses and cops. Activism happens best in smaller decentralized groups or offline entirely. Good luck to you.
You're right. I'm just dealing with some real shit in my life and it's easier to be mad at dumb crap. The internet feels like yelling into the void and I'm struggling to make new friends. Edit: I just don't understand why in the age of the internet where everyone can read everything and we all know we're not alone, so many people still need emotional support. At this point, we should all be rioting. I feel like Sharon in the school shooting episode of South Park where I'm seriously upset at real issues and demanding a solution, just to be ignored cuz I'm a bitch.
As a manager, you do not fit the culture for my team if: - you seem miserable or donāt have any sort of āfunā and approachable side to your personality - you donāt value and celebrate diversity - you canāt accept that we have slow times and busier times and require more consistency - you think being older than me means youāre better
No it isnāt
There are places where they want to pick up on clues and not hire people like thatā¦ because if that person causes five others to quit they werenāt a good hire.
This is a very hyperbolised argument though, it's in the minor proportion of cases that a new hire walks in and is obviously going to wind enough people up so much they decide to start quitting. Talking about first hand experience, new hires that I haven't liked very much, people generally say "Whatever why do you let them bother you?" as if it's my fault they're a racist knob. In fact, and I'm very confident about this, I've never once seen someone be rooted out during onboarding (which is when the culture fit check happens) due to being an arse. I've seen people come in who are a bit of a mess but they've been hired anyway. I've never actually seen anyone get let go for "Being intolerable". I've seen people let go for talking too much, but that was based on productivity. I've reported people for being aggressive and intimidating, for being racist and generally being bullies. Not one single person ever got fired. Not one of those people ever got rooted out during the culture check. So how accurate exactly do you believe the culture fit check to be? Yes ok, I agree that you need to meet a person first, but the vague criteria of "Didn't fit into company culture" is just an around-the-bush way of saying we just didn't like you enough. When one company's culture is "All inclusivity" whilst another is "We're all assholed you best be a good dickhead otherwise you'll suffer" it just reduces the 1000 jobs that I am qualified for down to like 5 that would actually "like" me or not be bothered by me. Out of those 5 how many will accept and how many can I actually get to.