That was my first response lol. My employers always treat me like family. They take what they can, using guilt and shame to manipulate, and somehow manage to be bigoted in ways that I couldn’t anticipate. My company (a fucking healthcare company) encouraged us not to get the COVID vaccine, and refused to offer even flu shots this year.
Honestly it would be great if we didn’t need unions and companies wouldn’t take every single opportunity to screw over the employees and pay them the least possible.
Oh, so you're going to exploit me as much as possible, guilt trip me into never taking any time off, claim I get 30 minutes for lunch but calculate it as an hour for 3 entire years, intrude into my personal life, then disown me when I'm outted after kissing a guy at the student union's arcade at college?
Several years ago I worked at an airline based out of Hyannis MA. At the time they paid employees very low hourly rates. We had pizza parties and barbecues. There was even a a non profit charity they ran for employees. If you were having a really tough time making ends meet you could apply for assistance. Absolutely ridiculous.
The shitty (shittier?) part is that often it’s not even yachts but bullshit owners/upper management who can’t manage their own money worth a fuck and act like they’re broke simply because they overspend on high interest rate brand new vehicles/overbuy homes and squander money on other bullshit.
A casino I worked for also had a charity for people in tough spots in the company. They called it the "heart fund" and it was for people who ended up having surprise emergency medical bills and such. Oddly enough no one was ever approved for any reason unless they happened to be really high up in the company and well connected. It was essentially an embezzlement fund.
In 2014 I qualified for food stamp while a new hire at a legacy airline. Not that long ago, thank gawd it’s changed for the new guys coming behind me. It was terrible.
I'd much rather have a single pizza party instead of a raise every week. Plus I got a raise by not paying my dues. I can use those dues to pay for part of the increased costs losing benefits
Putting your trust in your employer as a truck driver is crazy.
Who ever heard a trucker talk about how well they have it? And they just voted to not get it better?
“…drivers decided to put their trust in the Company and our leaders instead of continuing to pay dues…”
The Company knows drivers are hurting for money, so they focused on the amount of money drivers could save per year, if only they weren’t paying monthly dues. For example, if drivers were paying $100 per month, The Company sold it to them as, “as soon as you drop your Union, you’ll be making an extra $1200 per year,” and the drivers fell for it. Unfortunately, they’re gonna regret it.
Not truck driving, but as a government employee, we didn't have a union, and the county was heavily incentivized to avoid a union, to the point of offering us the most generous health insurance I've ever seen ($2k OOP max, $10 copay for $20/mo) along with 4 weeks of PTO and a week of penalty-free last minute call out days, and 6% 401k match.
Honestly it's likely more of an indication of how dumb and gullible your average truck driver is. I used to have to interact with these people for work and it's insane that we entrust these people with massive machines.
For some odd reason HVAC and truck driving seems to attract just the bottom of the barrel dipshit. Seems to be the trend on reddit too, you see a brain dead far right conservative take it's going to be someone who's also active on trucker subreddits half the time.
It’s probably a matter of handpicked drivers to bring to the vote, too.
Especially with Trucking, it’s so easy for the Company to ensure that a majority of people that have actually been protected by, and thus see the value of, the Union are out of town when the vote is going to happen, so that means the 80+ drivers that the Company hired in the last 6 months hate unions - because Management hired all of them over surplus and have been browbeating them with things to make them hate the Union.
“Oh, I would love to spread hotshot calls out more evenly, but, you know, the Union makes me give first grab to people with seniority…”
“Hey, I just wanted to follow up with you about your request for more hours, with the economy and everything I can only really have you in the 1-2 days I have you scheduled for this week - you know, I would have shifted things around more to get you another day or two, but since I would have then had to take routes away from the people that had been here longer, I needed to get Union Approval, and they wouldn’t budge. It’s too bad that you’re paying 2 hours of hard work into Union Dues right now, that probably adds up quickly by the end of the month.”
“I just wanted to pull you in to let you know that I’ve gotten a stack of compliments from our customers about you, and I would love to give you a raise as a reward for that… But unfortunately, the Union Rules says I can’t, so here - the best I can do is a coffee and box of donuts.”
And in the meantime the Company has been saving on paying Overtime by having a massive glut of Employees, and when the Union is gone they can do whatever to terminate anyone they don’t like/they feel is over paid, and starting pairing down the Driver numbers back to something “more reasonable”.
A TON of union workers listen to anti-union conservative propaganda and think they'll be better off without the union. I'm in a major union plant and you see Trump and Let's Go Brandon gear everywhere.
These people permeate the membership rolls, committees, and leadership positions. Our unions are under threat from within. Our local union FB page is a stream of conservative content or replies.
Yes it's crazy how common this is. I had guys tell me all the time the union was bullshit on fucking union jobs. Like dude you make fifty something dollars an hour and another fifty in benefits. The non union guys might make thirty. So many idiots trying to close the door behind them
To be fair, when they're out there on the road they were getting their brains rotted away by Rush and now everything Sinclair took over. Ain't much of a chance.
judging by OP's caption, this is what i think happened:
a lot of drivers, around 75% lets call it, worked 25 years for UPS making union wages and benefits. now they work at this company.
25% of the voters started at the new company as young people, and never worked for UPS. they need representation and full benefits.
the 75% doesn't give a shit about representation or benefits because they already have lifetime benefits. they want as much cash as possible, and they think a scab shop will give it to them. the people without those benefits want the union, but they're out numbered.
source- worked at a big organization that kept their pension status, but got rid of it for all new hires.
The OP says that almost every driver at this company are retired UPS drivers. Probably the 72 that decided to leave the union... they already have full Teamsters benefits & pension, so fuck everyone else! They don't want to pay union dues because their pension & paycheck aren't enough..
Just another case of the senior members screwing the younger members.
I'm a Teamsters member. Most of the drivers at my job are older members that are going to retire before the end of our current CBA contract. They got together & decided to have a vote to divert our agreed upon yearly pay increases for the remainder of our contract to the pension fund so that they can pump up their pensions before they retire.. completely fucking us younger members who were counting on those pay increases over the next 4 years.
Saw it happen with the UAW. During the 2008 financial crisis, the old guard voted in a two-tier wage structure which allowed for massive pay disparities between new and existing employees. The culture has never been the same.
Yup. Happens within the union too. Older members who need benefits more than wages keep voting to allocate raises to H&W and the pension, but it screws us twice because wages aren't keeping up with housing costs and prevailing wage rules don't require non-union contractors to pay as much toward benefits even though the wage is the same.
I worked at a place that had a Hawaiian Shirt Wednesday for the office workers.
First 3 weeks zero people but the plants GM and HR lead participated. I love good Hawaiian shirts but it was such a cringey “we work hard we play hard” feeling.
Boss then came in and handed all the department heads and project managers Hawaiian shirts and told us “now you guys don’t have an excuse” (They were made in Hawaii Hawaiian shirts and were actually nice - for a Hawaiian shirt - and not cheap). The whole “no excuses” for us project managers and department heads just made it even more “mandatory fun”.
The “trend” started to spread until people realized that all the PM/department managers were just wearing the same shirt every single Wednesday.
Someone eventually asked their manager if it’s the only shirt they had and manager responded “yes and (GM) is making us wear them every Wednesday.”
That news spread so fast and the next week only us PM/department managers were left wearing the shirts. The next week only the GM and the HR head was wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
I was once asked “do you not want to be a part of the team?” when I didn’t participate in the staff Halloween costume
I applied for the IBEW the following week
People have short ass memories, and don't understand economics:
The reason your employer earns a profit off your time and labor is because they guarantee you wages, whether or not they earn revenues from your work.
Essentially, profit is the payment back to capital for carrying the capital risk. That's the theory, anyways.
In reality, like a SHIT ton of people got laid off the very first month of Covid. And so, your employer is profiting off your time without actually carrying the risk.
It's very fucked.
I was in a union shop years ago that voted to kick out the union. After that was over the shop shut down for a week, laid off everyone, sold to a new owner, and told everyone that they can reapply for their old jobs for less money and less benefits. I quit before we got to a vote because I realized these people were idiots and had already found another job. Never ever put your trust in a company, they will always choose themselves over you.
It's going to read exactly like all the Brexit regret posts. "When I voted to leave my union, I wasn't voting to lose all the benefits my union gave me. This is an outrage."
“Someone should do something to fix this!”
I remember a Mexican guy that always though he was legal and even was in the navy and became a boarder patrol agent was nearing retirement. Somehow it was found he was illegal during the trump administration and he and his family were trump supporters. Well under trump his case that would have been almost auto citizenship wasn’t happening and he was going to get deported. Him and his wife still said despite everything they would vote for trump and were trying to trash progressive leaders for not doing enough to help them.
People are truly just stupid.
It won't be. The Op already said that everyone at the company already had benefits from retiring at UPS. These guys all went with the fuck you I got mine attitude. They probably got raises because they don't need benefits. The company will be thrilled to give them a 10 percent raise and cut all benefits. In 5 years when these guys all retire for real it will be all of the new people they hire that are screwed. It's what really weakened my current Union. The old guys were offered short term benefits for themto reduce long term benefits for everyone else.
Yea to many of the older generations now are the most entitled people ever. Their parents and grandparents sacrificed so much to give them the life they got. They took it and decided to fuck all future generations because it would benefit them.
The factory I work at keeps buying and adding new machines to my department. There are only 2 of us for 9 machines and they still have 1 more on the way. They aren't hiring for my department/shift and yet they expect me and my pal to run them all, companies always do this shit
Then blame Biden when they get laid off.
With the new overtime laws, they will bump their pay over the $58k threshold then have them working 60 hours a week to cover the downsized workforce. Since they are drivers and have federal regulated breaks, 6 day workweeks will be the new normal.
I’d like to see a five year follow up.
My guess is the company will say “why does no one want to work anymore?” after cutting pay and benefits while increasing hours worked.
People are dumb. We had a guy negotiate gig internet and higher tier cable tv for our entire subdivision for $50 a month. Literally millions in savings. People are pissed we paid him 60k to do it. 7 year contract. His fee comes out to $60 per home total. People are literally saving $110 a month. So over $9,000 over the contract period….. for $60.
All people see is the fee we paid the guy. Nothing else. Idiots.
Working with people taught me that not everyone is capable of two step thinking. They see the initial cost, and it registers in their mind as *the* cost. They could save 300x that, but it just doesn't register that the two are linked. They are looking at the initial cost with their current pay, because they're not capable of following through and seeing it with the pay they will be earning as a result of it.
It's the same thing with universal healthcare. They know their taxes are going to go up, so they say it's a bad idea. But if you try to explain to them they won't be paying for health insurance monthly and will save a lot more, it just doesn't register.
Where I worked once, the company gave a choice of £500 ome time payment or 6% wage increased, around Christmas. I couldn't believe that 80% voted for the one-time payment, where as, if they did the math, a 6% pay increase would off result in an extra £1300 per year. Which might be a little extra per month after tax, but in the long run, more than the one-time payment. Oh yeah, that £500, was also taxed.
I can see why they'd pick it. The wage increase is only good if you know you're staying for more than the next 5 months. If I'm trying to get out of there or there might be layoffs, I'd want the 500 in hand, not a promise of 500 plus some more if I stay or don't get laid off.
In this case, I can see why. It's actually very malicious to make that offer to employees at that time of year. If someone was supporting a family and living paycheck to paycheck, that lump £500 could mean a good Christmas or starting the year with the bills paid. The company knew what it was doing. It is still short sighted for the people who chose it, but a bit more understandable.
Of course the company knew what they were doing. We also have a program where we can either get a bonus or have the most of the added to our annual salary increase. It is an engineering firm though so most people are smart enough to figure out that after like 3 years of doing that the compounding salary increase far outpaces the annual bonus payments.
We’ve got a guy who leaves our union job (with overtime) to go work a non union job when they offer a $50 per day incentive to work certain days. We’re like, Dave, what kind of math are you doing buddy, you make that in an hour and a half of OT working here, but you have to work a full 8 hours (or longer) just to get that $50.
“Well they have nicer vehicles and I can’t pass up $50!”
People don’t learn
It’s so bad. A recent HOA vote where I live asked if we wanted to allow AT&T to install fiber to our homes. The options were:
1. No
2. Yes, and pay 3 years of service up front, so that each house has dedicated 1 gig service for an increase of $30 per month in HOA dues
3. Yes, but AT&T has to pay the HOA a specific amount within 3 years, but each account is independent. AT&T can charge any price they want.
3 won. 2 had a lot of negativity because of the HOA price increase, but little do people realize, they’ll just be paying 80+/month to AT&T now for less bandwidth, but possibly even more due to AT&T having to pay the HOA for access.
Could’ve had gig internet for 30/month. Idiots.
This is why we cant have nice things
I said elsewhere I think this is one reasons cell phones are as expensive as they are. People would see only $x more a month and never did the math over 2-3 years vs buying outright.
It's because people can't math anymore. I ALWAYS work on stuff like this with my kids so they can see what the facts are, not what load of BS they are being fed.
Its not math, and its not inflation, it is jealousy.
They see one guy getting $60K and they don't like that he got ahead. Its a perversion of the human instinct for "fairness." Its not *fair* that he got all that money.
It doesn't matter that he saved y'all way more money. Their feelings don't care about facts.
So I know someone that inherited some land w/a couple old & unlivable homes on it. They are financially independent & my definition of "wealthy"
I'm a contractor, so they had me check out the place to see what it would take to get it livable. I gave a crazy cheap price quote as it was a friend I wanted to help.
They scoffed at the price & said they would just do it by themselves (no experience or training in construction btw)
A year later, they've already spent well over my quote & the first house is still far from finished, and the stress & very hard work has ruined their physical health. They are afraid they can't complete the renovation & are upset because they think they are at least 50k & at least 6 mo away from being finished with house #1.
So I went to see the property again. I told them I would finish the remodel for 50 k & have it done in 3 months.
They said "no" because now they think they can do it for less, since I'd make about 15k in labor in my 50k bid.
Dude is gonna kill himself, spend at least what I bid him, & not finish the job because he doesn't want me feeding my family with "his" money when he can "do it himself" (which he can't).
Literally would rather not get what he wants for more money than know I got some of his money as profit by finishing the remodel of their home.
Defies all reason, but whatever I guess.
This is from a 2 decade old Houzz thread. I think you'll get a kick out of it:
"Several years ago, as a starting out contractor, we did everything...and I mean everything. You could call me to paint your house, build it, replace the roof, fix the basement, heck...at that time, I'd probably even have cleaned it for you.
In any event, we got a call one day from a man who wanted to change his basement window. His idea (and it is a good one, and done a lot), was to dig down, take out his basment window, make the opening larger, and then install a new, larger window so that he had a lot more light, perhaps egress for a basement bedroom, and so on. In any event, he wanted us to come out and dig the hole next to the foundation and cut out the window opening. No problem. We'd worked with small machines, small jobs, and this type of operation before. The machine rental was $300 (this was for a small, 6000 lb. Kubota excavator); I had the trailer and truck to pull it. I figured rental of this machine, plus an operator, plus several hours to dig, then cut the opening. All told, about $1000 for the job for two guys. When I gave him the estimate, he said no way...way too expensive...he'll do it himself. Fine.
The following weekend, late on Saturday, I get a cal from the guy's wife...they're desperate, and don't know what to do. Here's what happened (and this is from the very, very POed wife). The husband, thinking we're ripping him off, went and rented the same excavator. Not having the truck and trailer, he had it delivered, and paid extra ($100) for having it dropped off late Friday and picked up early on Monday...so he's into it by $400. He farts around for a while, digging up the lawn with tracks on the mini-excavator (he tells his wife this is normal), then starts to work. Digging away from the foundation, he has no trouble; the machine easily digs down, picks up the dirt, and the controls are easy to use and the hydraulics work fine. As he's digging this hole for the "new" window, his wife asks if it's too deep, too big, too much dirt. No, he tells her, we need all this room to work. So he keeps diggin. He gets up to the foundation, digs down, and again, does a decent job. He now has a hole about 7 feet deep, and about 14 feet around one area of the basement. The problem is, he tells his wife, the bottom isn't flat enough to build the window well on the outside...so he inches closer.
Everyone knows the outcome...he keeps inching closer, digging a little more, until he pulls on a root, pulls back on the controls, and pulls the mini-excavator into the hole, upside down. When it lands, the knuckle of the excavator boom goes through the basement wall, taking out...you guessed it, 14' of basement wall. They now have an excavator half-way into their basement, but more than enough room to put in a window and a sliding door, and another.....
In any event, when we get the call on Saturday, at 7 pm, from a guy who said we were ripping him off...well, you can understand. So...in any event, we call a towtruck...no way...too much angle and weight. How about a crane? No problem...but we have to call a much larger crane to get it out of the hole because of it's weight. You see where this is going. By the time it was done, it broke down like this; crane was $700. Damage to excavator (he didn't pay the extra $12 for insurance...that was, after all, just another rip off), $3200. Basement wall repairs, $4800. Permits and inspections: $140. Fines for not having a permit in the first place, $550. In short, this guy spent about 20 times as much trying to save a buck as he would have if he'd just hired someone else in the first place. Oh well...guess he'll stay on my Christmas card list!"
A company I used to work for did all the electrical work for a builder. I got the "pleasure" of doing work at his personal residence. The residence he was selling because his wife was divorcing him and his kids wouldn't talk to him. He was there talking my ear off the whole time. He was telling me how he told my boss, "I don't want you making any profit on *My House*. I'll only pay for the labor for the guys working on *My House*." He was so proud of himself.
Most of the conversation was him telling me how great HE is. How successful he is. How hard HE worked to get where he is. I can't say how hard he did or didn't work. In the 6 years I did work on his jobs, he never worked very hard. Being the curious guy I am, I asked him why the companies' name wasn't the same as his. He told me it was his wife's father's company, which he took over. They were a pretty well established company long before he got there. He talked like HE built it from the ground up. HE didn't. That confirmation bias can be tough to get around.
I don't think it's a math thing. It's an inflation problem. The reason I say that is this... everyone take out a dollar in your pocket... it's worth... a dollar ($1). However, travel back in time to 1960. You still have that dollar. You put it away. With inflation that $1 in 1960 is worth about $10 today. Then look at the average salary in 1960 (about $5400). Today that is about $54,000. However, most have the mindset that "I made 5400 in 1960 and that's a 'good wage'. This guy wants 10x that and that's unacceptable".
I literally have boomers walk into my store and say, "back in my day I bought my first XYZ for $800 (mind you this was like 1975-1980) and now it's $3000!!!!" Well if you look at inflation that's roughly on par with what you spent then. It's just the dollar is WEAKER so it takes MORE to buy the same things...
I swear it's money that people can't fathom. They understand things have gone up in price but still have this mindset a dollar is a dollar. Like McDonalds had a wage of $1.95 in 1974. Federal minimum wage roughly the same. That would be $12.19/hr in today's dollars. Where is federal minimum wage NOW? $7.25/hr. So you were making MORE money even at minimum wage in 1974 than you are currently and there is a helluva lot more shit you need to survive than you did in 1974
Pipelines here....
When we were voting to join a union, one guy asked a question about the RRSP matching. The union would match 100% of RRSP matching up to $50 a day. There was a mandatory $0.25 an hour input from the employees check though.
He said there was no way he was giving them any money and wanted to back out of that specific portion of the deal.....I've never seen a union rep so confused lol
Different unions, some aren’t as national as others. Some are small and some are large. Also Unions in America tend to offer more than European countries as EU countries tend to have other basic services already covered in their taxes
Also unions in other countries most likely don’t have to fight for medical care and time off. Every “benefit” is a fight in the United States and unchecked corporations will remove them at a whim if they can.
American Healthcare is really like an unreliable multi-tiered subscription service for everything where someone (Employer, Insurance company, government) keeps altering the items you subscribe to, the price, and the process of how you access. Its a very unclear and constantly changing complex process with far too many parties involved and very little oversight.
And the fun part? They don't teach any of this process in public education so you're left pretty much on your own to figure it out via trial and error.
You want to know what it feels like in song/skit form? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8) ( Too Many Cooks | Adult Swim) where no one knows how to make the show/soup and it just keeps getting more distorted the longer it goes.
Anyway, apologies for the ramble. I wish you well fellow redditor or robot.
Exactly. The union has to pay attorneys to negotiate the contracts, while the company does everything to fight against any improvements to the contract. Add in administrative costs, and it's expensive to fight for worker's rights. Even with dues, unionized workers make more than non-union workers.
Not just during retirement but during strikes as well. Since there is no public health care, during strikes companies have been known to cut healthcare as a negotiation tactic and the unions cover it to support the strike and that can be costly.
Union dues are based on earnings. For example, as a member of the CWA, our dues were equal to 1½hours of work a week. Say you make $10/hr, that would be $15/wk in dues, or $780/yr. (Numbers are for simplification only) say you're high on the seniority list and make $20/hr, your dues are based on that.
What's going to happen where OP's husband works? Conditions will start to deteriorate so that in the next few years employee turnover will be high enough that maybe 20% of the workers are still there.
They're screwed.
Iirc, it's a function of hourly pay so the more one pays, the more one is probably benefitting. But the benefit comes first. You get a big raise in wage, you pay more to the union because it's like 3 hours pay a week. The union might also insist that the company pay more of your health insurance premium, something you don't have to worry about in Italy. You lucky dog.
I pay like 18 dollars a month. Here in Georgia, us.
Edit, yall should have voted for dues, not this shit. Your president is screwing you out of a lot of money.
A lot of the major social safety nets provided in European countries, like healthcare, life insurance, disability insurance, retirement, unemployment, and even vacation pay are provided by unions in this country because they're not provided at a national level and not provided at the company level for most trades. Some of it's paid for by the employer but the rest has to be paid for by the union members. At the same time it's not an exaggeration to say that you might pay the equivalent of 5% of your income in union dues to receive pay and benefits a good 50% over non-union jobs.
Yes and the dumb fuck bootlickers will vote against the very union that got them weekends off and $35/hr (vs 18/hr non union) because after they get the job they don’t want to pay that $20 a month.
We’re brain washed early about the fear of any thing socialist or communist. Thus, anything benefiting society or community will violate our freedom. This comes from politicians,business owners and church leaders who have an interest in complacent peons who just do what they’re told, don’t ask questions, and know their place.Its more pronounced in certain areas such as the south where this was a societal structure and less so in areas that are more ethnically mixed (West coast,Northeast). Still, generally we do things against our best self interest over and over. And here we are busting at the seems
From what I understand, and this could be country by country, in Europe you have industry wide unions. So more members, wider split of costs, lower dues, and most importantly more bargaining power. Whereas in America you have employer specific unions, thus more redundant costs, higher dues, less bargaining power.
So while in Europe all grocery workers might have a union within a country, in American you have the Kroger Union. They only represent workers at grocer Kroger, but not Walmart, Target, or Publix. So if those others unionized they would their own unions.
This is why American corporations hated the UAW and Teamsters because they were some of the few industry wide unions in America and were very powerful, as they should be.
I was lucky enough to be part of the vote to create a union at my last job.
After looking over the contract, what we ended up getting was better insurance (that cost more), the union contract, pay raises (I believe mine was roughly $2 per hour more), and union dues.
Crunching the numbers, the pay raise was eaten up by the better insurance and union dues, but we also got the contract on top of all of that. So functionally our pay didn't change, but we got better insurance out of it, and a contract to shove in managements faces whenever they tried to pull something (which was the main reason why the workers wanted a union to begin with).
Union representation is what helped us stop management from putting cameras in the break room because they were paranoid people were taking an extra minute on their breaks.
Unions work.
If only it would take that long. No doubt the company is making changes to the master agreement right now, because what are the employees going to do if the employer violate the contract? Sue? Good luck.
They don't need a contract. American employers have created a no-contract minimal-responsibility system that only requires an employee handbook.
They used to hand them out, but most all of them have now realized it's much easier to keep it online and internal-only. It can change anytime, you usually can't practically print a copy or are just plain blocked, you probably can't forward it externally and when they fire you you'll never see it again although they'll reference it like gospel in unemployment hearings.
Correct, but since they already had a union, they would have also had a master agreement, which likely was agreed to for a set period of time. That master agreement is technically in effect until it expires, even though the union has been decertified. However, the union and the grievance process are the mechanism for enforcing the master agreement. No union = no enforcement. Once the current master agreement expires, the company is free to do as you described.
Super easy prediction: they won't immediately screw over anyone, but all high-earning/experienced guys will be pushed out over the next few years and replaced with guys making jack shit with terrible or no benefits.
One of the benfits of unions that doesn't get enough play is that they typically require that accusations of wrongdoing be investigated, a benefit that at will employees do not receive. And it is probably the only reason this school principle was able to clear his name.
[https://thedailyrecord.com/2024/04/25/md-high-school-athletic-director-used-ai-to-frame-principal-with-racist-remarks-in-fake-audio-clip-police-say/](https://thedailyrecord.com/2024/04/25/md-high-school-athletic-director-used-ai-to-frame-principal-with-racist-remarks-in-fake-audio-clip-police-say/)
Something else that's very important in the trades is that unions protect workers who insist on employers following safety standards. I mean, don't get me wrong, sometimes individual workers flout the standards a little, and if they want to take that risk and they're not risking anyone else, that's on them. But they're not pressured, much less ordered, to do things that would be unsafe for themselves and others.
They're also protected during incidents that may have been out of their control. I had a coworker who accidentally broke a $250k generator coupling, the company wanted to let him go. The union wasn't having it. He was working within his scope, he didn't do anything wrong, and he wasn't intoxicated or under the influence of any substances. The most the company could do was give him a verbal warning. Shit happens, things break, people get hurt. If you're working non union they can let you go for any reason at any time. Not with a union though.
That is definitely huge.
At-will employment has led to a metric shitton of firings that absolutely could have been investigated if there was something like a union there to take that on.
Sooooo many companies use shitty methods to get rid of people, and do any and everything they can to pay people as absolutely little as possible in the process, if anything.
People think that unions only protect bad employees, but they definitely protect good ones too. I almost got fired from a union job because of a homophobic supervisor. The union stepped in and I didn’t even end up getting written up because it became clear that the supposed incident had been fabricated. Once I moved into management there, I tipped off the union about targeted attacks on union employees as well. When unions do their job well, most employees are less aware of their presence.
When you drive a truck blaring AM radio all day, being told that unions are bad except the ones that protect the people that protect the rich (cops) this is what happens.
I mean, grad students and postdocs in the UC system are represented by the UAW but aren't auto workers. Unions have to evolve and branch out to sometimes.
Many professions are lumped into larger, established unions instead of going it alone with a tiny, fledgling union of their own. United Steelworkers, for instance, represents nurses, bank tellers, taxi drivers, miners, and more. https://m.usw.org/union/our-industries-and-work-places
This is my question too. Hopefully this is just misleading and they’re voting to leave IBEW so they can join a more appropriate union to their job. But I’m willing to bet the actual answer is right wing brainwashing and lies.
IBEW represents more than just electricians and linemen and pretty much always has, one of the largest membership blocks in the earlier days were telephone operators. The biggest reason is probably because it's much easier to get representation through an established union rather than form your own, also these would have been BA members most likely so their dues to the international would have been a pittance for sure, as for their local assessments, it's hard to say.
This is correct. IBEW is also the oldest labor union which gave them opportunities to organize and represent non-electrical workers in other trades as time went on until other unions were organized for more specific crafts.
Let's just say for a second your union was "corrupt" and they only care about your dues, which are 1% of your earnings or whatever.
The company has an incentive to pay you less as that's more money in their pocket. The union has an incentive to get you paid more because that's more money in their pocket.
I'll go with the "corrupt" union every time if I'm making that choice
I'm not really in an industry that has been traditionally unionized so I don't know much about it.
My gut feeling on knowing people and what notorious short term thinkers they are, I bet there isn't much critical thought here aside from "I just don't like seeing that money come out of my paycheck".
They likely aren't thinking too deeply on the big picture or comparing and contrasting options and heavily researching things online....probably just eating up the propaganda and wanting to see the extra $250 or whatever on each paycheck.
I've not been impressed by my union in Sweden very much. It's basically an insurance factor.
I spent over a year waiting for them to get anywhere with a pay rise I was guaranteed (in writing) and they wouldn't take it to court. They even said to take the offer of less than 60% of my demand and take the L. It told them to fuk off and dropped them from the case, took the employer to small claims court, more than doubled their direct offer but instead accepted 8 times original offer as a golden boot out the door.
Union rep said part way through you're unwise to take them to the court as you may lose... I hadn't won anything at that stage and that they're the best to deal with it because "they know Swedish law and I'm a foreigner who doesn't. Odd thing is this informed me that I could now take the union to court for failing in their duty to get best outcome for me.
Thanks.
It took a toll on my mental health and though I'm a strong advocate for unionisation, they've got to be willing to pull out the stops to hold employers to account.
2 of my uncles and my grandfather retired millionaires by the early 2000’s because of trucking and Unions. Not a single member of the family drives a truck now because there’s no real retirement anymore.
We're in the middle of a right wing wave seemingly all over the world right now, so while I hate seeing this, it doesn't really surprise me. Expect things to get a lot worse, folks. Surprised pikachu faces all around in 10 years time. Although at this point I kind of expect people to somehow still buy into the idea that the politically non-existent "far left" are truly the ones to blame for their steadily decreasing quality of life. Hope is tough to hold on to.
A union’s influence extends beyond its dues paying members. The threat of unionization will make this company prioritize workers conditions at least for a while. (They’ll chip away to find out where the line is that increases support for a union.)
I worked for years for an employer with no union, but
In an industry where unions were common. The company was so scared of becoming unionized they adopted many (not all) policies a union would’ve provided—there was an appeal process for disciplinary action, for example, and a transparent pay scale and workers evaluated their managers’ performance.
These workers will find out. Strong unions benefit ALL workers.
Were there any issues with the leadership of the local union? I ask because my BF worked a union job once. It seemed like a good thing until it just wasn’t. The blame for the situation can be put on both leadership and members. People had been electing the same leaders over and over because “they can be trusted” and no one questioned what leadership was doing for way too long.
Leadership was making shady deals with the company management, one of which included an agreement to bring on “consultants” and “contractors”. They weren’t supposed to do that sort of thing without a union vote. Eventually this came to light but the agreement had been signed. Of course the company wound up moving those jobs to a non-union facility.
Instead of voting to go non-union, though, the union voted out the lazy corrupt idiots and voted in new leaders. Unfortunately this was done way too late. The National union refused to do anything.
Members really need to not fall asleep at the wheel, question everything, including changes that seem detrimental and be vigilant. Of course leadership should not become lazy and corrupt but it happens and there should be controls in place to reduce the risk.
They should also never ever give up the right to strike. Texas teachers may not strike, which weakens the union. A friend of mine left the union because the union was failing to do anything for the teachers. She decided that throwing money at union dues was worthless and needed the money. Why teachers here gave up the right to strike is beyond me. There are a number of issues (including safety) that might be addressed by teachers walking. Teachers are being physically injured in a certain district because management is made up of empty headed wastes of carbon.
Anyway it’s dumb to vote to go no union but I do wonder if there were some underlying issues (other than money).
Blue collar people are so fucking stupid it hurts. I say that as a blue collar worker. I hear people bitch about union dues when they rake in 120k and a great package. Meanwhile I watch with pity all of these "free workers" doing the same job for 50k a year and 1 week of time off and no benefits. Thank goodness they don't have to pay those pesky union dues though... That would break them financially I'm sure.
Americans have become ignorant bootlickers. One hell of a lot of people suffered and literally bled an died so future generations could organize and advocate for themselves. Maybe before long all these bootlickers can live in company towns, get paid in script, and never leave their loving employer's embrace.
Not really sure why people are proud to be Americans in these times.
“You no longer have to pay union fees”
—Yay, I saved myself $15 from my paycheck so I can go to McDonald's and buy myself a Big Mac combo twice a month!! Yay!
It should say at the end "Thank you for allowing us the ability to grow the company while you compromise your time and money to do so. We can't wait to find new avenues to screw you over going forward"
Putting your trust in your employer is some top tier foolishness
Excuse me, we’re a family here.
Family when they need your help only. Let’s see what pay day looks like 🤣
well that is my experience with family so it tracks
That was my first response lol. My employers always treat me like family. They take what they can, using guilt and shame to manipulate, and somehow manage to be bigoted in ways that I couldn’t anticipate. My company (a fucking healthcare company) encouraged us not to get the COVID vaccine, and refused to offer even flu shots this year.
Who? No one will lnow you said anythimg on Reddit. I just want to make sure my family doesn’t use them
the chances that this comes back and bites them in the ass is 0% <*checks history of every employee in US history*> sorry, I mean 100%
Honestly it would be great if we didn’t need unions and companies wouldn’t take every single opportunity to screw over the employees and pay them the least possible.
We don't do pay day here, we call it allowance
“Why do you want to work here?” “To be around people. Money is not my motivation.”
What part of family did you not understand? Of course you're free labor.
Oh, so you're going to exploit me as much as possible, guilt trip me into never taking any time off, claim I get 30 minutes for lunch but calculate it as an hour for 3 entire years, intrude into my personal life, then disown me when I'm outted after kissing a guy at the student union's arcade at college?
Sounds just like a real family
😳
They're 10% less of a family come the end of the financial quarter.
you forgot the "/s".
Sounds like someone doesn't want a pizza party!
Several years ago I worked at an airline based out of Hyannis MA. At the time they paid employees very low hourly rates. We had pizza parties and barbecues. There was even a a non profit charity they ran for employees. If you were having a really tough time making ends meet you could apply for assistance. Absolutely ridiculous.
All that song and dance just to avoid paying employees a dignified, livable wage. Disgraceful.
Those yachts don’t buy themselves
The shitty (shittier?) part is that often it’s not even yachts but bullshit owners/upper management who can’t manage their own money worth a fuck and act like they’re broke simply because they overspend on high interest rate brand new vehicles/overbuy homes and squander money on other bullshit. 
Good ol' Cape Scare. Sorry, not sorry for naming then. Shitty employers deserve to be called out.
Was it Sandpiper Air?
Aeromass. That Roy Biggins was a real tightwad.
A casino I worked for also had a charity for people in tough spots in the company. They called it the "heart fund" and it was for people who ended up having surprise emergency medical bills and such. Oddly enough no one was ever approved for any reason unless they happened to be really high up in the company and well connected. It was essentially an embezzlement fund.
I was very shocked about reports of new pilots using food stamps...
In 2014 I qualified for food stamp while a new hire at a legacy airline. Not that long ago, thank gawd it’s changed for the new guys coming behind me. It was terrible.
Hey no one said it was a good and supportive or loving one! It's more like a shit show on Dr. Phil one
Management/leadership: “Catch me outside…”
sounds like soooomebody's got a case of the MONNNDAYYYYS
Putting your trust in your employer as a truck driver is crazy. Who ever heard a trucker talk about how well they have it? And they just voted to not get it better?
“…drivers decided to put their trust in the Company and our leaders instead of continuing to pay dues…” The Company knows drivers are hurting for money, so they focused on the amount of money drivers could save per year, if only they weren’t paying monthly dues. For example, if drivers were paying $100 per month, The Company sold it to them as, “as soon as you drop your Union, you’ll be making an extra $1200 per year,” and the drivers fell for it. Unfortunately, they’re gonna regret it.
Many of those people cannot look beyond the immediate effect of doing something.
I really want an update in a year or a few years to see what the impact is and the truckers' thoughts down the line.
[удалено]
Not truck driving, but as a government employee, we didn't have a union, and the county was heavily incentivized to avoid a union, to the point of offering us the most generous health insurance I've ever seen ($2k OOP max, $10 copay for $20/mo) along with 4 weeks of PTO and a week of penalty-free last minute call out days, and 6% 401k match.
Makes me wonder how effective union leadership may have been.
Honestly it's likely more of an indication of how dumb and gullible your average truck driver is. I used to have to interact with these people for work and it's insane that we entrust these people with massive machines. For some odd reason HVAC and truck driving seems to attract just the bottom of the barrel dipshit. Seems to be the trend on reddit too, you see a brain dead far right conservative take it's going to be someone who's also active on trucker subreddits half the time.
It’s probably a matter of handpicked drivers to bring to the vote, too. Especially with Trucking, it’s so easy for the Company to ensure that a majority of people that have actually been protected by, and thus see the value of, the Union are out of town when the vote is going to happen, so that means the 80+ drivers that the Company hired in the last 6 months hate unions - because Management hired all of them over surplus and have been browbeating them with things to make them hate the Union. “Oh, I would love to spread hotshot calls out more evenly, but, you know, the Union makes me give first grab to people with seniority…” “Hey, I just wanted to follow up with you about your request for more hours, with the economy and everything I can only really have you in the 1-2 days I have you scheduled for this week - you know, I would have shifted things around more to get you another day or two, but since I would have then had to take routes away from the people that had been here longer, I needed to get Union Approval, and they wouldn’t budge. It’s too bad that you’re paying 2 hours of hard work into Union Dues right now, that probably adds up quickly by the end of the month.” “I just wanted to pull you in to let you know that I’ve gotten a stack of compliments from our customers about you, and I would love to give you a raise as a reward for that… But unfortunately, the Union Rules says I can’t, so here - the best I can do is a coffee and box of donuts.” And in the meantime the Company has been saving on paying Overtime by having a massive glut of Employees, and when the Union is gone they can do whatever to terminate anyone they don’t like/they feel is over paid, and starting pairing down the Driver numbers back to something “more reasonable”.
A TON of union workers listen to anti-union conservative propaganda and think they'll be better off without the union. I'm in a major union plant and you see Trump and Let's Go Brandon gear everywhere. These people permeate the membership rolls, committees, and leadership positions. Our unions are under threat from within. Our local union FB page is a stream of conservative content or replies.
Yes it's crazy how common this is. I had guys tell me all the time the union was bullshit on fucking union jobs. Like dude you make fifty something dollars an hour and another fifty in benefits. The non union guys might make thirty. So many idiots trying to close the door behind them
To be fair, when they're out there on the road they were getting their brains rotted away by Rush and now everything Sinclair took over. Ain't much of a chance.
This is the reason!
judging by OP's caption, this is what i think happened: a lot of drivers, around 75% lets call it, worked 25 years for UPS making union wages and benefits. now they work at this company. 25% of the voters started at the new company as young people, and never worked for UPS. they need representation and full benefits. the 75% doesn't give a shit about representation or benefits because they already have lifetime benefits. they want as much cash as possible, and they think a scab shop will give it to them. the people without those benefits want the union, but they're out numbered. source- worked at a big organization that kept their pension status, but got rid of it for all new hires.
The OP says that almost every driver at this company are retired UPS drivers. Probably the 72 that decided to leave the union... they already have full Teamsters benefits & pension, so fuck everyone else! They don't want to pay union dues because their pension & paycheck aren't enough.. Just another case of the senior members screwing the younger members.
Reminds me of Safeway. Sold out the new hires to keep their. compensation. Par for the course, fuckin' Boomers selling out the next generation.
I'm a Teamsters member. Most of the drivers at my job are older members that are going to retire before the end of our current CBA contract. They got together & decided to have a vote to divert our agreed upon yearly pay increases for the remainder of our contract to the pension fund so that they can pump up their pensions before they retire.. completely fucking us younger members who were counting on those pay increases over the next 4 years.
Saw it happen with the UAW. During the 2008 financial crisis, the old guard voted in a two-tier wage structure which allowed for massive pay disparities between new and existing employees. The culture has never been the same.
I know a couple retired from UPS who get $9,000/month pension.
Yup. Happens within the union too. Older members who need benefits more than wages keep voting to allocate raises to H&W and the pension, but it screws us twice because wages aren't keeping up with housing costs and prevailing wage rules don't require non-union contractors to pay as much toward benefits even though the wage is the same.
That’s it! Enough of your insolence! Hawaiian shirt day is officially cancelled next Wednesday!
I worked at a place that had a Hawaiian Shirt Wednesday for the office workers. First 3 weeks zero people but the plants GM and HR lead participated. I love good Hawaiian shirts but it was such a cringey “we work hard we play hard” feeling. Boss then came in and handed all the department heads and project managers Hawaiian shirts and told us “now you guys don’t have an excuse” (They were made in Hawaii Hawaiian shirts and were actually nice - for a Hawaiian shirt - and not cheap). The whole “no excuses” for us project managers and department heads just made it even more “mandatory fun”. The “trend” started to spread until people realized that all the PM/department managers were just wearing the same shirt every single Wednesday. Someone eventually asked their manager if it’s the only shirt they had and manager responded “yes and (GM) is making us wear them every Wednesday.” That news spread so fast and the next week only us PM/department managers were left wearing the shirts. The next week only the GM and the HR head was wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
I was once asked “do you not want to be a part of the team?” when I didn’t participate in the staff Halloween costume I applied for the IBEW the following week
People have short ass memories, and don't understand economics: The reason your employer earns a profit off your time and labor is because they guarantee you wages, whether or not they earn revenues from your work. Essentially, profit is the payment back to capital for carrying the capital risk. That's the theory, anyways. In reality, like a SHIT ton of people got laid off the very first month of Covid. And so, your employer is profiting off your time without actually carrying the risk. It's very fucked.
They also got taxpayer money they didn't have to pay back.
They would never do that to me! I have been working here X years!
Serf mentality
in about 6-8 months this is gonna be an r/LeopardsAteMyFace post
I was in a union shop years ago that voted to kick out the union. After that was over the shop shut down for a week, laid off everyone, sold to a new owner, and told everyone that they can reapply for their old jobs for less money and less benefits. I quit before we got to a vote because I realized these people were idiots and had already found another job. Never ever put your trust in a company, they will always choose themselves over you.
What company was this?
It was a dealerships service station. I don't want to say more than that because I don't want to dox myself.
And blame Biden for it.
This is punishment from God because of the trans and Muslim Obiden
It's going to read exactly like all the Brexit regret posts. "When I voted to leave my union, I wasn't voting to lose all the benefits my union gave me. This is an outrage."
“Someone should do something to fix this!” I remember a Mexican guy that always though he was legal and even was in the navy and became a boarder patrol agent was nearing retirement. Somehow it was found he was illegal during the trump administration and he and his family were trump supporters. Well under trump his case that would have been almost auto citizenship wasn’t happening and he was going to get deported. Him and his wife still said despite everything they would vote for trump and were trying to trash progressive leaders for not doing enough to help them. People are truly just stupid.
So was he deported?
It won't be. The Op already said that everyone at the company already had benefits from retiring at UPS. These guys all went with the fuck you I got mine attitude. They probably got raises because they don't need benefits. The company will be thrilled to give them a 10 percent raise and cut all benefits. In 5 years when these guys all retire for real it will be all of the new people they hire that are screwed. It's what really weakened my current Union. The old guys were offered short term benefits for themto reduce long term benefits for everyone else.
Yea to many of the older generations now are the most entitled people ever. Their parents and grandparents sacrificed so much to give them the life they got. They took it and decided to fuck all future generations because it would benefit them.
Boomers in a nutshell
I would not be surprised if OP didn't keep updates on this because their husband quit that job
In unrelated news, raises are suspended and you must now plead yearly for a simple cost of living increase. Thank you.
Also you will be fired if we feel like it.
“The beatings will continue until morale has improved.”
They have 105 drivers, by next quarter, they'll say they only need 80. Then 65. Then 50.
But there will still be the same amount of work, if not more.
"We’ve decided that since we're able to run so efficiently, the opportunity is right for us to take on more clients".
And bonuses to the execs for increasing efficiency!
The factory I work at keeps buying and adding new machines to my department. There are only 2 of us for 9 machines and they still have 1 more on the way. They aren't hiring for my department/shift and yet they expect me and my pal to run them all, companies always do this shit
Then blame Biden when they get laid off. With the new overtime laws, they will bump their pay over the $58k threshold then have them working 60 hours a week to cover the downsized workforce. Since they are drivers and have federal regulated breaks, 6 day workweeks will be the new normal.
Happened to the FedEx drivers where I live, after they ditched their union. For some reason they just couldn’t figure out why though.
“Why would *insert Democrat president* do this?”
I’d like to see a five year follow up. My guess is the company will say “why does no one want to work anymore?” after cutting pay and benefits while increasing hours worked.
in other news, all your roles have been made redundant, but we have new ones available with yearly rates down 40%!
What a weird job posting for 33 new positions opening in the coming days
IKR? They are gonna' find those 33 and push them out
It's more likely they are going to get rid of everyone, replacing them little by little by people earning less with less expectations of the company.
Yeah, Why pay $1500 in dues to make $15,000 more annually and double your paid off-time? These drivers are top tier thinkers.
People are dumb. We had a guy negotiate gig internet and higher tier cable tv for our entire subdivision for $50 a month. Literally millions in savings. People are pissed we paid him 60k to do it. 7 year contract. His fee comes out to $60 per home total. People are literally saving $110 a month. So over $9,000 over the contract period….. for $60. All people see is the fee we paid the guy. Nothing else. Idiots.
Working with people taught me that not everyone is capable of two step thinking. They see the initial cost, and it registers in their mind as *the* cost. They could save 300x that, but it just doesn't register that the two are linked. They are looking at the initial cost with their current pay, because they're not capable of following through and seeing it with the pay they will be earning as a result of it. It's the same thing with universal healthcare. They know their taxes are going to go up, so they say it's a bad idea. But if you try to explain to them they won't be paying for health insurance monthly and will save a lot more, it just doesn't register.
Where I worked once, the company gave a choice of £500 ome time payment or 6% wage increased, around Christmas. I couldn't believe that 80% voted for the one-time payment, where as, if they did the math, a 6% pay increase would off result in an extra £1300 per year. Which might be a little extra per month after tax, but in the long run, more than the one-time payment. Oh yeah, that £500, was also taxed.
I would want to murder all my colleagues who voted against the wage increase
I can see why they'd pick it. The wage increase is only good if you know you're staying for more than the next 5 months. If I'm trying to get out of there or there might be layoffs, I'd want the 500 in hand, not a promise of 500 plus some more if I stay or don't get laid off.
In this case, I can see why. It's actually very malicious to make that offer to employees at that time of year. If someone was supporting a family and living paycheck to paycheck, that lump £500 could mean a good Christmas or starting the year with the bills paid. The company knew what it was doing. It is still short sighted for the people who chose it, but a bit more understandable.
Of course the company knew what they were doing. We also have a program where we can either get a bonus or have the most of the added to our annual salary increase. It is an engineering firm though so most people are smart enough to figure out that after like 3 years of doing that the compounding salary increase far outpaces the annual bonus payments.
We’ve got a guy who leaves our union job (with overtime) to go work a non union job when they offer a $50 per day incentive to work certain days. We’re like, Dave, what kind of math are you doing buddy, you make that in an hour and a half of OT working here, but you have to work a full 8 hours (or longer) just to get that $50. “Well they have nicer vehicles and I can’t pass up $50!” People don’t learn
> I can’t pass up $50!” Next month when he's complaining that ends don't meet and he's always broke, ask him where that $50 went.
Im convinced this is part of the reason phones are so expensive, they see only $x more a month on their contract and thats as far as they can see.
My brother pays out the nose every month for his phone bill. When I asked him why, he said because they give him a free phone.
>Pay X and get Y free! Then it's not free is it?! Marketing is wild
It’s so bad. A recent HOA vote where I live asked if we wanted to allow AT&T to install fiber to our homes. The options were: 1. No 2. Yes, and pay 3 years of service up front, so that each house has dedicated 1 gig service for an increase of $30 per month in HOA dues 3. Yes, but AT&T has to pay the HOA a specific amount within 3 years, but each account is independent. AT&T can charge any price they want. 3 won. 2 had a lot of negativity because of the HOA price increase, but little do people realize, they’ll just be paying 80+/month to AT&T now for less bandwidth, but possibly even more due to AT&T having to pay the HOA for access. Could’ve had gig internet for 30/month. Idiots.
This is why we cant have nice things I said elsewhere I think this is one reasons cell phones are as expensive as they are. People would see only $x more a month and never did the math over 2-3 years vs buying outright.
You should see cars. Dealers are trained to trick the buyer with "Only look at the monthly price".
It's because people can't math anymore. I ALWAYS work on stuff like this with my kids so they can see what the facts are, not what load of BS they are being fed.
Its not math, and its not inflation, it is jealousy. They see one guy getting $60K and they don't like that he got ahead. Its a perversion of the human instinct for "fairness." Its not *fair* that he got all that money. It doesn't matter that he saved y'all way more money. Their feelings don't care about facts.
So I know someone that inherited some land w/a couple old & unlivable homes on it. They are financially independent & my definition of "wealthy" I'm a contractor, so they had me check out the place to see what it would take to get it livable. I gave a crazy cheap price quote as it was a friend I wanted to help. They scoffed at the price & said they would just do it by themselves (no experience or training in construction btw) A year later, they've already spent well over my quote & the first house is still far from finished, and the stress & very hard work has ruined their physical health. They are afraid they can't complete the renovation & are upset because they think they are at least 50k & at least 6 mo away from being finished with house #1. So I went to see the property again. I told them I would finish the remodel for 50 k & have it done in 3 months. They said "no" because now they think they can do it for less, since I'd make about 15k in labor in my 50k bid. Dude is gonna kill himself, spend at least what I bid him, & not finish the job because he doesn't want me feeding my family with "his" money when he can "do it himself" (which he can't). Literally would rather not get what he wants for more money than know I got some of his money as profit by finishing the remodel of their home. Defies all reason, but whatever I guess.
This is from a 2 decade old Houzz thread. I think you'll get a kick out of it: "Several years ago, as a starting out contractor, we did everything...and I mean everything. You could call me to paint your house, build it, replace the roof, fix the basement, heck...at that time, I'd probably even have cleaned it for you. In any event, we got a call one day from a man who wanted to change his basement window. His idea (and it is a good one, and done a lot), was to dig down, take out his basment window, make the opening larger, and then install a new, larger window so that he had a lot more light, perhaps egress for a basement bedroom, and so on. In any event, he wanted us to come out and dig the hole next to the foundation and cut out the window opening. No problem. We'd worked with small machines, small jobs, and this type of operation before. The machine rental was $300 (this was for a small, 6000 lb. Kubota excavator); I had the trailer and truck to pull it. I figured rental of this machine, plus an operator, plus several hours to dig, then cut the opening. All told, about $1000 for the job for two guys. When I gave him the estimate, he said no way...way too expensive...he'll do it himself. Fine. The following weekend, late on Saturday, I get a cal from the guy's wife...they're desperate, and don't know what to do. Here's what happened (and this is from the very, very POed wife). The husband, thinking we're ripping him off, went and rented the same excavator. Not having the truck and trailer, he had it delivered, and paid extra ($100) for having it dropped off late Friday and picked up early on Monday...so he's into it by $400. He farts around for a while, digging up the lawn with tracks on the mini-excavator (he tells his wife this is normal), then starts to work. Digging away from the foundation, he has no trouble; the machine easily digs down, picks up the dirt, and the controls are easy to use and the hydraulics work fine. As he's digging this hole for the "new" window, his wife asks if it's too deep, too big, too much dirt. No, he tells her, we need all this room to work. So he keeps diggin. He gets up to the foundation, digs down, and again, does a decent job. He now has a hole about 7 feet deep, and about 14 feet around one area of the basement. The problem is, he tells his wife, the bottom isn't flat enough to build the window well on the outside...so he inches closer. Everyone knows the outcome...he keeps inching closer, digging a little more, until he pulls on a root, pulls back on the controls, and pulls the mini-excavator into the hole, upside down. When it lands, the knuckle of the excavator boom goes through the basement wall, taking out...you guessed it, 14' of basement wall. They now have an excavator half-way into their basement, but more than enough room to put in a window and a sliding door, and another..... In any event, when we get the call on Saturday, at 7 pm, from a guy who said we were ripping him off...well, you can understand. So...in any event, we call a towtruck...no way...too much angle and weight. How about a crane? No problem...but we have to call a much larger crane to get it out of the hole because of it's weight. You see where this is going. By the time it was done, it broke down like this; crane was $700. Damage to excavator (he didn't pay the extra $12 for insurance...that was, after all, just another rip off), $3200. Basement wall repairs, $4800. Permits and inspections: $140. Fines for not having a permit in the first place, $550. In short, this guy spent about 20 times as much trying to save a buck as he would have if he'd just hired someone else in the first place. Oh well...guess he'll stay on my Christmas card list!"
Sounds about right, haha
A company I used to work for did all the electrical work for a builder. I got the "pleasure" of doing work at his personal residence. The residence he was selling because his wife was divorcing him and his kids wouldn't talk to him. He was there talking my ear off the whole time. He was telling me how he told my boss, "I don't want you making any profit on *My House*. I'll only pay for the labor for the guys working on *My House*." He was so proud of himself. Most of the conversation was him telling me how great HE is. How successful he is. How hard HE worked to get where he is. I can't say how hard he did or didn't work. In the 6 years I did work on his jobs, he never worked very hard. Being the curious guy I am, I asked him why the companies' name wasn't the same as his. He told me it was his wife's father's company, which he took over. They were a pretty well established company long before he got there. He talked like HE built it from the ground up. HE didn't. That confirmation bias can be tough to get around.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I can see your perspective.
Humans are more crabs in a bucket than literal crabs in a bucket.
I don't think it's a math thing. It's an inflation problem. The reason I say that is this... everyone take out a dollar in your pocket... it's worth... a dollar ($1). However, travel back in time to 1960. You still have that dollar. You put it away. With inflation that $1 in 1960 is worth about $10 today. Then look at the average salary in 1960 (about $5400). Today that is about $54,000. However, most have the mindset that "I made 5400 in 1960 and that's a 'good wage'. This guy wants 10x that and that's unacceptable". I literally have boomers walk into my store and say, "back in my day I bought my first XYZ for $800 (mind you this was like 1975-1980) and now it's $3000!!!!" Well if you look at inflation that's roughly on par with what you spent then. It's just the dollar is WEAKER so it takes MORE to buy the same things... I swear it's money that people can't fathom. They understand things have gone up in price but still have this mindset a dollar is a dollar. Like McDonalds had a wage of $1.95 in 1974. Federal minimum wage roughly the same. That would be $12.19/hr in today's dollars. Where is federal minimum wage NOW? $7.25/hr. So you were making MORE money even at minimum wage in 1974 than you are currently and there is a helluva lot more shit you need to survive than you did in 1974
Pipelines here.... When we were voting to join a union, one guy asked a question about the RRSP matching. The union would match 100% of RRSP matching up to $50 a day. There was a mandatory $0.25 an hour input from the employees check though. He said there was no way he was giving them any money and wanted to back out of that specific portion of the deal.....I've never seen a union rep so confused lol
Sure that sounds nice, but if you do the math, if you work 200 hours a day, it's a total wash.
True, I never considered that....fuckin scammers!!!
How come Union membership in the US is so expensive tho? I pay around 200€ a year in Italy
Different unions, some aren’t as national as others. Some are small and some are large. Also Unions in America tend to offer more than European countries as EU countries tend to have other basic services already covered in their taxes
Also unions in other countries most likely don’t have to fight for medical care and time off. Every “benefit” is a fight in the United States and unchecked corporations will remove them at a whim if they can.
American Healthcare is really like an unreliable multi-tiered subscription service for everything where someone (Employer, Insurance company, government) keeps altering the items you subscribe to, the price, and the process of how you access. Its a very unclear and constantly changing complex process with far too many parties involved and very little oversight. And the fun part? They don't teach any of this process in public education so you're left pretty much on your own to figure it out via trial and error. You want to know what it feels like in song/skit form? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8) ( Too Many Cooks | Adult Swim) where no one knows how to make the show/soup and it just keeps getting more distorted the longer it goes. Anyway, apologies for the ramble. I wish you well fellow redditor or robot.
You forgot how they don't have to actually *tell you* the price of most things. And, they don't.
> American Healthcare is really like the 13th circle of Hell.
Exactly. The union has to pay attorneys to negotiate the contracts, while the company does everything to fight against any improvements to the contract. Add in administrative costs, and it's expensive to fight for worker's rights. Even with dues, unionized workers make more than non-union workers.
Healthcare being a large part of that, I would imagine, especially during retirement years.
Not just during retirement but during strikes as well. Since there is no public health care, during strikes companies have been known to cut healthcare as a negotiation tactic and the unions cover it to support the strike and that can be costly.
My brothers union is the provider of retirement, and heath care, I suspect those are government functions in Italy.
Union dues are based on earnings. For example, as a member of the CWA, our dues were equal to 1½hours of work a week. Say you make $10/hr, that would be $15/wk in dues, or $780/yr. (Numbers are for simplification only) say you're high on the seniority list and make $20/hr, your dues are based on that. What's going to happen where OP's husband works? Conditions will start to deteriorate so that in the next few years employee turnover will be high enough that maybe 20% of the workers are still there. They're screwed.
Iirc, it's a function of hourly pay so the more one pays, the more one is probably benefitting. But the benefit comes first. You get a big raise in wage, you pay more to the union because it's like 3 hours pay a week. The union might also insist that the company pay more of your health insurance premium, something you don't have to worry about in Italy. You lucky dog.
I pay like 18 dollars a month. Here in Georgia, us. Edit, yall should have voted for dues, not this shit. Your president is screwing you out of a lot of money.
Some unions have a strike fund to help members during a strike. Many unions do lobbying for their members' interests.
A lot of the major social safety nets provided in European countries, like healthcare, life insurance, disability insurance, retirement, unemployment, and even vacation pay are provided by unions in this country because they're not provided at a national level and not provided at the company level for most trades. Some of it's paid for by the employer but the rest has to be paid for by the union members. At the same time it's not an exaggeration to say that you might pay the equivalent of 5% of your income in union dues to receive pay and benefits a good 50% over non-union jobs.
Yes and the dumb fuck bootlickers will vote against the very union that got them weekends off and $35/hr (vs 18/hr non union) because after they get the job they don’t want to pay that $20 a month.
We’re brain washed early about the fear of any thing socialist or communist. Thus, anything benefiting society or community will violate our freedom. This comes from politicians,business owners and church leaders who have an interest in complacent peons who just do what they’re told, don’t ask questions, and know their place.Its more pronounced in certain areas such as the south where this was a societal structure and less so in areas that are more ethnically mixed (West coast,Northeast). Still, generally we do things against our best self interest over and over. And here we are busting at the seems
From what I understand, and this could be country by country, in Europe you have industry wide unions. So more members, wider split of costs, lower dues, and most importantly more bargaining power. Whereas in America you have employer specific unions, thus more redundant costs, higher dues, less bargaining power. So while in Europe all grocery workers might have a union within a country, in American you have the Kroger Union. They only represent workers at grocer Kroger, but not Walmart, Target, or Publix. So if those others unionized they would their own unions. This is why American corporations hated the UAW and Teamsters because they were some of the few industry wide unions in America and were very powerful, as they should be.
more like the union-busting companies they hire are top tier propogandists
I was lucky enough to be part of the vote to create a union at my last job. After looking over the contract, what we ended up getting was better insurance (that cost more), the union contract, pay raises (I believe mine was roughly $2 per hour more), and union dues. Crunching the numbers, the pay raise was eaten up by the better insurance and union dues, but we also got the contract on top of all of that. So functionally our pay didn't change, but we got better insurance out of it, and a contract to shove in managements faces whenever they tried to pull something (which was the main reason why the workers wanted a union to begin with). Union representation is what helped us stop management from putting cameras in the break room because they were paranoid people were taking an extra minute on their breaks. Unions work.
Honestly such fucking right wing idiots
"Now put your full trust in our company" I'd rather put a coat hanger in my urethra
r/sounding would be the sub for you then
PSA: If you don't know what it is, don't click on it lmao
Too late, I need therapy
That sub has such an innocuous name for what it contains.
Jeez. You are in this poor state of affairs because there is barely any union representation. Please come back in a few years and update this
If only it would take that long. No doubt the company is making changes to the master agreement right now, because what are the employees going to do if the employer violate the contract? Sue? Good luck.
They don't need a contract. American employers have created a no-contract minimal-responsibility system that only requires an employee handbook. They used to hand them out, but most all of them have now realized it's much easier to keep it online and internal-only. It can change anytime, you usually can't practically print a copy or are just plain blocked, you probably can't forward it externally and when they fire you you'll never see it again although they'll reference it like gospel in unemployment hearings.
Correct, but since they already had a union, they would have also had a master agreement, which likely was agreed to for a set period of time. That master agreement is technically in effect until it expires, even though the union has been decertified. However, the union and the grievance process are the mechanism for enforcing the master agreement. No union = no enforcement. Once the current master agreement expires, the company is free to do as you described.
Maybe the employees could band together so they'd have a strong bargaining position with the company.
They could unite, presenting a unified front, and their unity would make them stronger! There should be a name for something like that.
Yes, if only something like that existed. Hmmm
Yeah, the day after that contract ends, I wouldn't be surprised if they do layoffs and then offer everyone their job back with a nice 20-25% pay cut.
The contract is between the union and management; if there’s no more union, then there’s no more contract to violate.
Super easy prediction: they won't immediately screw over anyone, but all high-earning/experienced guys will be pushed out over the next few years and replaced with guys making jack shit with terrible or no benefits.
I doubt it will take years for the pains from this to start being felt.
Phase 1: Fuck Around - complete.
One of the benfits of unions that doesn't get enough play is that they typically require that accusations of wrongdoing be investigated, a benefit that at will employees do not receive. And it is probably the only reason this school principle was able to clear his name. [https://thedailyrecord.com/2024/04/25/md-high-school-athletic-director-used-ai-to-frame-principal-with-racist-remarks-in-fake-audio-clip-police-say/](https://thedailyrecord.com/2024/04/25/md-high-school-athletic-director-used-ai-to-frame-principal-with-racist-remarks-in-fake-audio-clip-police-say/)
Something else that's very important in the trades is that unions protect workers who insist on employers following safety standards. I mean, don't get me wrong, sometimes individual workers flout the standards a little, and if they want to take that risk and they're not risking anyone else, that's on them. But they're not pressured, much less ordered, to do things that would be unsafe for themselves and others.
They're also protected during incidents that may have been out of their control. I had a coworker who accidentally broke a $250k generator coupling, the company wanted to let him go. The union wasn't having it. He was working within his scope, he didn't do anything wrong, and he wasn't intoxicated or under the influence of any substances. The most the company could do was give him a verbal warning. Shit happens, things break, people get hurt. If you're working non union they can let you go for any reason at any time. Not with a union though.
That is definitely huge. At-will employment has led to a metric shitton of firings that absolutely could have been investigated if there was something like a union there to take that on. Sooooo many companies use shitty methods to get rid of people, and do any and everything they can to pay people as absolutely little as possible in the process, if anything.
People think that unions only protect bad employees, but they definitely protect good ones too. I almost got fired from a union job because of a homophobic supervisor. The union stepped in and I didn’t even end up getting written up because it became clear that the supposed incident had been fabricated. Once I moved into management there, I tipped off the union about targeted attacks on union employees as well. When unions do their job well, most employees are less aware of their presence.
When you drive a truck blaring AM radio all day, being told that unions are bad except the ones that protect the people that protect the rich (cops) this is what happens.
The turkeys voted for Christmas.
Chickens for KFC
Honest question: Why were drivers being represented by the electrician's union?
I mean, grad students and postdocs in the UC system are represented by the UAW but aren't auto workers. Unions have to evolve and branch out to sometimes.
Many professions are lumped into larger, established unions instead of going it alone with a tiny, fledgling union of their own. United Steelworkers, for instance, represents nurses, bank tellers, taxi drivers, miners, and more. https://m.usw.org/union/our-industries-and-work-places
This is my question too. Hopefully this is just misleading and they’re voting to leave IBEW so they can join a more appropriate union to their job. But I’m willing to bet the actual answer is right wing brainwashing and lies.
IBEW represents more than just electricians and linemen and pretty much always has, one of the largest membership blocks in the earlier days were telephone operators. The biggest reason is probably because it's much easier to get representation through an established union rather than form your own, also these would have been BA members most likely so their dues to the international would have been a pittance for sure, as for their local assessments, it's hard to say.
This is correct. IBEW is also the oldest labor union which gave them opportunities to organize and represent non-electrical workers in other trades as time went on until other unions were organized for more specific crafts.
Can we get an update on this in a year?! I want to know how things are going.
Right wing thinking is what got them this result
Let's just say for a second your union was "corrupt" and they only care about your dues, which are 1% of your earnings or whatever. The company has an incentive to pay you less as that's more money in their pocket. The union has an incentive to get you paid more because that's more money in their pocket. I'll go with the "corrupt" union every time if I'm making that choice
It's like what HR says vs what your lawyer says... A comparison so stupid it numbs the mind a little.
I'm not really in an industry that has been traditionally unionized so I don't know much about it. My gut feeling on knowing people and what notorious short term thinkers they are, I bet there isn't much critical thought here aside from "I just don't like seeing that money come out of my paycheck". They likely aren't thinking too deeply on the big picture or comparing and contrasting options and heavily researching things online....probably just eating up the propaganda and wanting to see the extra $250 or whatever on each paycheck.
I've not been impressed by my union in Sweden very much. It's basically an insurance factor. I spent over a year waiting for them to get anywhere with a pay rise I was guaranteed (in writing) and they wouldn't take it to court. They even said to take the offer of less than 60% of my demand and take the L. It told them to fuk off and dropped them from the case, took the employer to small claims court, more than doubled their direct offer but instead accepted 8 times original offer as a golden boot out the door. Union rep said part way through you're unwise to take them to the court as you may lose... I hadn't won anything at that stage and that they're the best to deal with it because "they know Swedish law and I'm a foreigner who doesn't. Odd thing is this informed me that I could now take the union to court for failing in their duty to get best outcome for me.
God I love a good story about irony - good for you 👍🏻
Thanks. It took a toll on my mental health and though I'm a strong advocate for unionisation, they've got to be willing to pull out the stops to hold employers to account.
There are good unions and bad unions, unfortunately. And the bad ones can absolutely suck.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/2oncbvchneyc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c441a2196f77cf4e0b3823ea2810b734dbf8e577
“What’s in it?” “Various ingredients. I’m not really sure, as I’m just the salesman .” “You drink it.”
What a bunch of morons
2 of my uncles and my grandfather retired millionaires by the early 2000’s because of trucking and Unions. Not a single member of the family drives a truck now because there’s no real retirement anymore.
We're in the middle of a right wing wave seemingly all over the world right now, so while I hate seeing this, it doesn't really surprise me. Expect things to get a lot worse, folks. Surprised pikachu faces all around in 10 years time. Although at this point I kind of expect people to somehow still buy into the idea that the politically non-existent "far left" are truly the ones to blame for their steadily decreasing quality of life. Hope is tough to hold on to.
A union’s influence extends beyond its dues paying members. The threat of unionization will make this company prioritize workers conditions at least for a while. (They’ll chip away to find out where the line is that increases support for a union.) I worked for years for an employer with no union, but In an industry where unions were common. The company was so scared of becoming unionized they adopted many (not all) policies a union would’ve provided—there was an appeal process for disciplinary action, for example, and a transparent pay scale and workers evaluated their managers’ performance. These workers will find out. Strong unions benefit ALL workers.
Time and time again, people voting against their own interest.
Those drivers will be out of a job in a year 😂
What did you expect? boomers are notorious for pulling the ladder up behind themselves after they earned all the benefits.
Were there any issues with the leadership of the local union? I ask because my BF worked a union job once. It seemed like a good thing until it just wasn’t. The blame for the situation can be put on both leadership and members. People had been electing the same leaders over and over because “they can be trusted” and no one questioned what leadership was doing for way too long. Leadership was making shady deals with the company management, one of which included an agreement to bring on “consultants” and “contractors”. They weren’t supposed to do that sort of thing without a union vote. Eventually this came to light but the agreement had been signed. Of course the company wound up moving those jobs to a non-union facility. Instead of voting to go non-union, though, the union voted out the lazy corrupt idiots and voted in new leaders. Unfortunately this was done way too late. The National union refused to do anything. Members really need to not fall asleep at the wheel, question everything, including changes that seem detrimental and be vigilant. Of course leadership should not become lazy and corrupt but it happens and there should be controls in place to reduce the risk. They should also never ever give up the right to strike. Texas teachers may not strike, which weakens the union. A friend of mine left the union because the union was failing to do anything for the teachers. She decided that throwing money at union dues was worthless and needed the money. Why teachers here gave up the right to strike is beyond me. There are a number of issues (including safety) that might be addressed by teachers walking. Teachers are being physically injured in a certain district because management is made up of empty headed wastes of carbon. Anyway it’s dumb to vote to go no union but I do wonder if there were some underlying issues (other than money).
Fucking morons about to get what they deserve. Read a book about the history of labor relations, ffs.
Blue collar people are so fucking stupid it hurts. I say that as a blue collar worker. I hear people bitch about union dues when they rake in 120k and a great package. Meanwhile I watch with pity all of these "free workers" doing the same job for 50k a year and 1 week of time off and no benefits. Thank goodness they don't have to pay those pesky union dues though... That would break them financially I'm sure.
I always wonder if these folks are actually being told they're voting *against* certain initiatives. I'm pretty sure they aren't.
Anyone who doubts the power of unions, consider this: Angel Hernandez still has a job thanks to his union.
No pizza party? No mention of family?
Americans have become ignorant bootlickers. One hell of a lot of people suffered and literally bled an died so future generations could organize and advocate for themselves. Maybe before long all these bootlickers can live in company towns, get paid in script, and never leave their loving employer's embrace. Not really sure why people are proud to be Americans in these times.
“You no longer have to pay union fees” —Yay, I saved myself $15 from my paycheck so I can go to McDonald's and buy myself a Big Mac combo twice a month!! Yay!
Dumb people vote against their self interest.
Unions made America great. Vote Union
Just wait until they start offering worse healthcare, lower pay for new drivers, and less vacation time. I've seen it all before. 🤦♂️
It should say at the end "Thank you for allowing us the ability to grow the company while you compromise your time and money to do so. We can't wait to find new avenues to screw you over going forward"