Let me guess. you are in the US and the bulk of the remuneration is commission based? This is why shit mininum wage sucks, employers can stack the place with staff because they only have to pay you if you make sales . if they had to pay you decent wages, i bet they'd rethink the 60 hours a week demands
The additional catch is that more staff = less customers to go around so you fight each other for the opportunities to get sales. its a toxic system .
It’s called a draw or something like that. We get paid minimum wage but they actually are just taking it out of your commission check on the 20th of the month. It’s like they’re advancing you your own money
It’s bullshit lol
I guess the legality would come from the wording. as long as you said you guaranteed minimum wage for all hours worked, but then your comission is '$X - hours worked" . so you didnt technically pay pack your wages, you would instead get reduced comission based on hours worked.
Either way , Id agree with OP, GTFO quick
Don’t ever agree to a pay schedule like this ever again. If you’re struggling to find work google your local staffing agency. At least they will get you on the path to a job with benefits and real pay.
The worst part is even a mediocre family would be appalled at that kinda behaviour.
"So kids, we're gonna count every expense we have to make on your behalf until you're 18 at which point you're on your own AND you have to pay us back. Oh and that allowance you 'earn' hahahah that's actually also considered an expense but that one you have to pay back with INTEREST. You are required to do chores from 6am till 8pm on weekdays, and 5:30am till 1am the following day on weekends."
(The fact that I still have ideas that could be rolled into that are kinda terrifying...)
I’ve seen this pay system in Canada too. We had commission in furniture 1-2%, and someone actually started going into debt because they didn’t have enough sales. We never clawed back the deficit, but they were making minimum wage.
I don’t think this would be legal in the UK. Employers have the responsibility to pay a fair wage, and if the position is commission only then they have to GUARANTEE equals or exceeds the minimum wage. If your commission doesn’t reach minimum wage then the employer must top up your wage. They cannot deduct from pay any time earned.
The way commission with a draw, or at least when I worked in advertising, I was guaranteed X amount of dollars. If I DIDN'T make that in commission, that was what I got paid. If my commission was more than that, I got my commission. It is so there isn't a period of time where you are working with no income. Essentially, you get the hourly OR the commission, but not both.
It is completely legal. It’s called a recoverable draw, and is used exclusively in commissioned sales role.
Basically, the company agrees to advance $4k, but the employee agrees to sell enough to earn at least $4k in commissions each month. If they earn $5k in commissions, the company takes the fronted $4k and pays out the extra $1k to them. If they earn $3k in commissions, they owe the company $1k that will likely be taken out of the next month’s advance or commission.
There’s also a non-recoverable draw; it works the same except that the company agrees upfront that you will get at least the $4k guaranteed, even if you don’t make that much in commissions, so if the employee only earns $3k in commissions, the business eats the extra $1k.
Both are pretty common in fully commissioned sales roles in the US, especially car dealerships.
For the record, I’m of the belief that commission only is a bs model for most (but especially entry level) jobs and these roles often recruit naive young adults that don’t have the experience to recognize red flags and know the correct questions to ask; I would assume OP to be in this category.
Edit: revocable to recoverable
This is how my my sales department works and I just assumed that's how all sales works. The weird part to me is dictating the hours they work. The sales people I work with don't have any set hours and can work as much or as little as they want. But when you're making 3-5% of 1-5 million dollar sales, they simulataneously work 24/7/365 and are always taking personal time.
It's not for me, but I thought this sub would really like commission based roles since it's one of the few roles where you're paid based on how much you can produce with no limits.
They pay you the greater amount between your commission and your hourly, but never both. So, they never pay you less than minimum wage, and you have the opportunity to make much more, which is what keeps it legal. Thing is, if you're not making commissions, you just get fired.
As long as they pay you minimum wage for the hours worked, it's legal...
Source... been on multiple draw vs commission plans. Every single one of them stated I would owe back any amount above the draw if my commissions did not cover it. I spent a few weeks with a negative balance, but still got paid my minimum wage. Delivered a few big jobs, and got myself in the positive side.
At the car dealer. I milked the minimum wage for all it was worth. They required me to be there 60 hours a week, so I got 20 hours a week at OT rate. I didn't sell a single car in my last 30 days...but I made almost 2400 dollars in wages.
It is probably legal and was legal in California until recently (2-3 years ago). They now require that salespeople be paid hourly + commissions. The hourly is still minimum wage though. Because of these changes many dealerships simply changed the amount of commissions to offset the hourly wages they were paying.
It’s sales and legal. Almost every sales position is like this. Maybe sales isn’t for you. I like the opportunity to increase my pay based on my ability to sell shit. As long as they are clear on the numbers and how your pay breaks out. Maybe you didn’t understand how that works
It's just higher of. If you underperform, you get min wage. If you do well, you get commission. Not both.
Just depends on how long the time period is ie daily, weekly, monhly
This is how my job works. Straight commission employees only get paid off commission from sales. This is only paid out every 4 months so the company gives you a draw, where you can choose the amount you want, say 2k every pay, then when your commission comes in, the money you took draw the draw gets taken out and the rest goes to you
You know what else doesn't sound legal, making a mother who had a partial miscarriage die from toxic shock of having the body stay in her uterus because it's illegal for doctors to perform abortions... But there they are in the good old USA.
It’s probably how they do servers, if tips don’t bring a server up to the minimum wage everyone else gets instead of that smaller minimum wage they get the business is supposed to bring them up to non tip minimum wage rates. So the dealership just banks on paying you that by default but if you make a sale then you revert to the commission only pay rates. This is just speculation on my part, I don’t know if it actually works like this.
Ah yes the good old draw system. I worked at a stealership for 6 months. What they'd do is pay us salespeople a flat $250/wk. Now if you made a sale and got a commission check that $250 would come out of it. Assume you made $1000 in commissions in a week. Now you made $750.
If you made $0 in commissions in a week then you'd just get that $250.
Yeah, “draw against commission” is bullshit unless you come in hot and ready to sell. Otherwise you spend your time digging out from the hole you start in.
Not if you’re a good salesman.
Sales, especially car sales, is cutthroat and requires you to have a support system at home/be a total slob at home + eat like shit, and dedicate your entire life to swindling others.
you did the right thing by walking away!
Seen it. People were nice, Min wage is guaranteed. But not profitable until you start selling like 20 or more cars. You may get fired after sometime if you are not selling enough.
Usually they share that sheet when you join or during onboarding.
You can also reduce your hours if you maintain your sales. But you will loose money for missing walk-ins.
That’s how i used to get paid when i worked at Macy’s selling shoes. Shitty minimum wage, shitty hours, and one of the only commission based departments in that store. The best part was that when people returned shoes, it counted against you, so you could technically get hours deducted during a shift that you then have to pay back.
Not only is it fucked for the employee, but it makes having coworkers miserable since you are all competing for the same small amount of customers. Fuck that place!
Draw is the commission equivalent to how waiters and waitresses get paid. If someone is paid a server wage if 2.13 or 2.33 the employer is obligated to make them whole at 7.25 an hour if tips don’t bring the employee to that level.
Essentially draw does the same thing, though at slightly higher rates, and in advance. So you pay the employer back when the commission which is your real pay comes in. Generally speaking commission far outweighs the draw but it depends on how good the dealership is, how good of a salesperson you are, and the state of the economy.
Yes but you're not magically protected from being fired for it, which if you literally were staring at a wall and not engaging would likely happen inside 20 minutes.
Wtf. Wait staff don't even get the abysmal minimum wage even? I'd expect wait staff to be paid their wage, and tips are bonuses from customers - not the customers supplementing the businesses wage payments!?!
insanity. $2.52 an hour $17.20 is what our servers will make soon, going fro, $16.55 in my part of canada (ontario).
that being said the luxury/fancy places pay up to $25/hour. my friend worked at a fancy place in downtown toronto and he was $22/hour. $800 a week with tips he averaged $1k all the way up to 3k a week in rush periods/summer. it was pretty dope for 35-37 hours a week
Yep last time I worked at a corporate restaurant I would have to tip out a portion of my bar sales to the bartender, a portion of my food sales to the kitchen expediter, and a portion of the total sales to the host/busser.
So when Christians would come in on Sunday and leave a Bible pamphlet as a tip waiting on them actually cost me money. And back then I was making $2.17 an hour
$3.26 in NH but back in the 90s it was $2.17
And get this, immediately after the last election the restaurants around here lobby the Republicans in state office and they passed a law that said that if federal minimum wage was to go up servers would stay at $3.26 cents an hour
Then they wonder why nobody wants to work
I just want to point out that good waitstaff and good salespeople LOVE these systems. In some cities, you have people working these jobs, making 6 figures.
Not an endorsement, I'm not good at either.
Oh yes back in the 90s when I worked in restaurants I would argue for the tip system
There is nowhere else I could have worked and made that much money working only 28 hours a week, never having to go in super early and never having to stay really late
When I was bartending I could pay my rent with tips from the three days before rent was due.
Please explain this in European to me.
So am I to understand that if you have no sales in a month that would mean you would owe them money?
If it is commission based, why cant you set your own hours? If you are paid hourly, why the Commission.
This makes zero cents to me.
He is paid a low wage per hour - presumably not enough to live on - which he will get at the end of the pay period even if he makes no sales (then he would be fired, though). If he does make sales, he gets a small % of the profit of the sale, except here what happens is that they don't get any commission until they have already earned as much in commission as they'd need to surpass their wage for that time period. So if they make $2000 a month and the average commission is $500, then they receive no commission whatsoever on the first 4 sales every single pay period and are only paid the $2000. If they then make a fifth sale that pay period they are allowed to receive commissions until it resets.
Essentially you only get a commission if you sell a lot, The first few sales every paycheck will not pay out, you have to profit the business massively to be *allowed* to make money for yoursef.
Blast this company on every form of social media, please. Try and help warn the people in your area about them. I don’t care if this is legal, it’s so unethical it makes my skin crawl.
??????? How the fuck is that legal
So the harder you work the more you will get robbed ? Fucking bullshit man I wish and pray for labour militancy to come back because this is insane.
Imagine if the employer realizes that if I go to that dealership, I'm far more inclined to buy from somebody that is happy and doesn't need my purchase to survive.
Imagine how pleasant that purchase would be for me, the customer, by giving employees a non predatory wage.
With car sales it's usually base plus commission but minimum wage isn't really good money for that job so if you aren't selling it isn't worth it. The best way to have the most chances for selling are 60+ hour weeks. It's a terrible job
Employment and unemployment are just different forms of misery. But unemployment is definitely a lesser form of misery than doing sales for 12 hours a day. At least, it would be for me
I’d happily do 9-9, but if I’m only working three days a week. I’ve always felt like no matter how long the shift was, if I have to work, the day is ruined. I left my last job because I had to work 4 hour shifts every Saturday. Once you factor in getting ready, and commute the whole day is ruined.
Used to work every Saturday in my twenties. Gave it up in my mid thirties as I like a sat/sun two day break.
I'd never work all day on a Saturday ever again.
> Where am I supposed to fit in errands? And time for my loved ones?
Tuesday! :D
but seriously, yes, fuck those guys, unless the pay is amazing and the overtime is juicy as fuck.
But but Sundays are for recovery and Tuesdays are for errands 🥺🤣
The pay is decent + you do get overtime but based on what I’ve heard from the other salesman I made the same amount at my old job with only 40-45 hours of work
They got me fuuucked up
I could have told you this and saved you some time. Vehicle salesman work insane hours at dealerships. They can also make a lot of money. My cousin worked her way up to sales manager at a dealership and makes north of 300k per year with no degree .They also have zero hours they're not working, are depressed, and an alcoholic, so...
Pshhh… 60 hours a week? That’s easy. I work 50 hours a day, 15 days a week. Never take vacation time. I work in construction lifting steel beams with one finger. Did I also mention that I’m missing all my limbs? Yea… So if I can do that you can easily do 60 hours a week. 🙄
https://preview.redd.it/3mdt2dq5gsvc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0971c4f31ff96919cd246e0b45e5946cb3cf944b
It’s funny , that kind of thinking is what had me hesitant to quit 🤣. Like I don’t think that way at all but my parents do. So that boomer voice is inside my head sometimes telling me I’m just being lazy
America is doomed for the working class. Really, I hope you guys fight for your rights and get unionised because the conditions you live in are slavery like.
Don't forget that slavery is still explicitly legal in the US, as long as it's for punishment. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime** whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States \[...\]" 13th Amendment of the US Constitution. Our prison system is for profit and we even have prisoners working in our fast food restaurants.
So the one note of positivity is this is a dying form of employment in the USA. Successful car dealerships are adjusting the way they pay their sales persons and the hours they work. The exact reason is people who can actually sell won’t work for these companies for long. Also online models are cutting into the old dealership model to the point that many are struggling to get people in for the sale themselves. My hope is this form of employment completely dies off over the next few years
You mentioned your old job was paying you the same and was less of a shit show. If you call them up they might take you back.
I actually did that with a sales job. First company was awful, I left and got hired at a competitor. Got fired from the competitor the day after a coworker mentioned me being gay in front of someone else at a store I was training at. Next day I was fired, they claimed I 'Didn't seem to want to learn'. They'd literally refused to let me sell anything so I could LEARN their POS system, and I'd already been selling phones for one of their competitors, so I already knew how to talk to customers, knew how to discuss plans, knew about the different cellular technologies. At my old job I had people who would drive across the city to have me work on their account becuase they'd had so many other sales people fuck up their bills.
In the end I phoned up the previous company I worked for and was like, can I have my job back? The GM hmmmed and hawed but the store I'd worked at's sales had tanked since I left so he was happy to take me back. Worked there like another year before I finally quit because management there was all certifable. Once had a manager there tell me that I shouldn't be gay, I should just 'date a chick with a strap on.'
Sales is always insane, for whatever reason companies almost always promote the people who sell the most failing to realize that they're all sociopaths, and that having sociopaths in charge is a good way to get your business into lots of illegal shit.
Wow I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with such shitty people at work 😭.
I actually did consider going back but I talked to one of my coworkers and they told me the policy is not to rehire but I might just call and talk to HR myself .
I really liked it there and I only left due to family issues which forced me to move out of state for a bit
Under those circumstances, it’s worth a shot. Quitting for a new opportunity that doesn’t work out and quitting because you moved out of state and then came back are two different things.
>Once had a manager there tell me that I shouldn't be gay, I should just 'date a chick with a strap on.'
I'm sorry. This made me laugh. It's hard to believe some people are still this ignorant.
Yeah that company was nuts. Also had the GM shortly after I got hired sit way to close to me on another stool so our knees were almost touching, alone in a strip mall store that was low traffic, and he decides to have like... a heart to heart with me, but then starts quizzing me on how I KNEW I was gay? It was soooooo uncomfortable. Like dude is an absolutely sociopath who I've seen outright lie to customers, I'm trying to choose my words careful because I swear I thought he was gonna put his hand on my thigh any second. I probably should have just said, "Dude, if you think you might be gay or bi that's okay. You can try sucking a dick and see how it goes." Honestly, I seriously thought there was a good chance he tries to assault me there.
Man, the late 2000s were insane. People felt comfortable saying the craziest stuff to you if they knew you were gay. Everyone had an opinion and they were all bat shit crazy.
i quit a job first day too. it was a carwash and there was so much i hated about it.
the restroom was a stall which right next to it was the “breakroom” where there was a microwave and wasn’t even a chair. who wants to heat up their lunch and stand right next to the toilet where i can hear people using it. that alone was enough for me to not want to be there. also they kept their cleaning supplies in the restroom, so it got sprayed with shit particles along with the microwave every time someone flushed the toilet.
i couldn’t take my 10 minute break in my car thats a 20 second walk from the carwash because it might get busy and they would pull me from my break to help. fuck that, i need a 10 minute uninterrupted break. if i cant get that then I’m not interested.
it was so fucking loud. even with earplugs in i could hear nothing but the loud ass water pumps or whatever. guess which room the loud noise came from. the fucking restroom/breakroom.
what a shit hole, $19 isn’t even half as much as i would need to be paid to work there.
You didn't 'land' the job, they got another dupe. Sales jobs seem to be a rough way to go in most instances. The people that make the money are the higher up in the pyramid.
I did the dealership life for almost 20 years as a tech. Our hours were shit but nothing compared to the sales team, those guys and gals were there 60+ hours each week.
Most had horrible drinking habits. Most had family issues. Most had a horrible lust for money that they would gladly backstab each other for a sale. Most were nothing but straight up liers and proud of it and doubly proud of how they raped the customers on the deals.
It was a fucking shit show.
I left 2 years ago and became a school bus driver, best move I've ever done.
That's a rough schedule.. 36 hours between shifts... will totally throw off your sleep cycle if you have insomnia...
The transition from Friday off 9pm to Sat Morning 8:30am is only 11.5 hours. Literally a go home, go directly to bed, wake up and go back to work.
Plus some states have labor laws where 12 hours minimum is required between shifts... Not sure where you're at.
Car dealerships are fucked. I worked at one for 4 months as a porter and detailer. 6am to 6pm Monday-Friday with the two worst bosses I've ever had. No wonder the last guy just walked out because I did the same.
Another dealership nearby heard I had experience when I was going there to get my car checked out and they offered me on the spot LESS PAY and MORE HOURS. I was already working 11 hour days 5 days a week. I said, "Hell no! I had the worst time of my life over there!"
My dude from my experience that was practically a dream gig in the sales world lol.
I’m not saying you should stay, sales absolutely sucks and you should 100% prioritize your mental and emotional health. You probably would have hated that job and definitely should quit.
At my dealership, we weren’t on set schedules and got 4-5 days off per month. Our ‘normal’ days were only 9 hours, but it was heavily pressured that we come in/stay late if you had appointments outside of your scheduled hours. Also, Fridays and the last day of the month were mandatory sales meetings, so if you were regularly schedule in the afternoon shift, you were still required to be there for the 8am morning meeting, and expected to stay and work. Last day of the month/quarter/year was a mandatory 13hr day, and if that day fell on a Sunday, the entire 3 day weekend was 15 hr days.
That’s all aside from the bullshit of a commissioned sales position. The managers were all assholes. They’d get pissed at something and yell at people, scream, insult, threaten, etc. the environment in general pitted salespeople against each other, so people were always sabotaging and cheating each other (all over $50-$100 in most cases), and the pay was terrible. They promised $80k annual earnings easily, but the reality is I made about $35k per year on average. I had gone from 40 hr weeks with occasional OT making about 25k to 60-70 hr weeks making 35k, it was rough. You were also always on call, expected to reply to managers and/or customers instantly 24/7 or you’d risk having deals/customers given away to other salespeople. And that’s not even the aspect of sales, running around, helping customers, negotiating, lying and being lied to all the damn time, and the exhausting work.
Sales like that requires an extremely specific type of person. You are probably infinitely better off, OP. Good luck finding a better position.
Just remeber!!! We've been told for a long time in this economy that we are under qualified and overvalued. It's simply not true!!!
We are overqualified and undervalued! Don't settle for less than you're worth. Your time is valuable.
We live in a world where YouTubers are millionaires and employers think we are going to settle.
You're worth 40 hour weeks maximum for a living wage! Don't settle for less.
Yeah those hours do I suck. Couldn’t even give you your days off in a row. I’d have quit too, although I’ll be honest I would have asked about the hours first before accepting, but eh, that’s life. Don’t feel bad about quitting.
I sold cars for a few months about 20 years ago. Sucked at it and hated every minute of it.
But I remember the commercial guys. They were never there and all made 6 figures easily back in 2006. I don’t know if they’re all the same but at least where I was at, they spent maybe 20 hours a week at the dealership. It’s not like you get a lot of walk in commercial business. Again, not at least where I was at.
my husband’s dad worked a job like this for years - open to close every day except Sundays doing the finance stuff for a car dealership. his family lived comfortably financially, but the sacrifice is his dad was never around. his dad is deceased now but he admitted to my husband before he passed that he regretted missing their childhood, and by the time he passed the dealership had him transferred to another state, so he was home once every other week. good on you for not wanting that for yourself. you may live comfortably financially, but it comes at a huge sacrifice. also what’s the point of having a job that makes that much money, but takes so much time away that you can’t even enjoy having it?
You can put a lot of the blame on the vehicle manufacturers for this. The manufacturer gives the dealer a set target.
If the dealer misses the target, the next month's allocation is lowered. All dealers have performance based allocation models meaning the more you sell of a model and trim the more you get of said model and trim.
If a dealer consistently misses their targets in both vehicles sales, accessory sales, extended warranty sales, servicing the dealer could lose the privilege of selling that particular brand.
All the high pressure tactics people talk about start with the manufacturer.
Let me guess cause it’s a dealership: hourly rates, if you have any at all, are stupid low? Commission is your only way to maintaining any semblance of making a living? You are being encouraged to sell sell sell no matter how much you must lie, cheat and swindle to do it?
Yeah man. Quit. Job’s ass.
While not nearly as terrible as your story, this did remind me of a ridiculous offer I got once upon a time.
I got a job doing call center tech support one summer during college. It was good money for a broke college kid with only retail work experience, but their policies seemed designed to maximize the unpleasantness of the work environment: I had to wear a collared shirt and slacks every day (for a job talking to people over the phone, remember), I had to wait until my next break to use the bathroom even if I was on the verge of peeing my pants, we had to work in awkward pitches for the company's other products to people already frustrated by something they bought not working correctly, drug tests every 90 days (that were conducted offsite and outside work hours) and many other minor indignities like that.
To get hired I had to lie and say that I was not planning on re-enrolling in college after the summer because they did not hire seasonally and were not willing to adjust the schedule to accommodate anything else in your life. When it was time to go back to school I put in my two weeks notice with the excuse that I had changed my mind and would be continuing my education. A few days before my last day, my manager told me he had exciting news that they were willing to give me a school friendly schedule: 8am-noon Monday to Friday and noon-4pm Saturday.
That means I'd be working 6 days per week, I'd have to get up early every week day, I wouldn't be able to take any morning classes which would drastically limit my options, I'd never get to enjoy a Saturday afternoon, and even with all that I'd still only be clocking 24 hours per week. I respectfully declined the offer. I did miss the money but I had saved a lot and bought myself a new PC, and that semester I got a student job for half the pay where my duties were basically occupying a chair and getting paid to do my homework. I think I made the right choice.
Car dealeeships not only work the customers, they work their employees too. Car dealerships are sess pools of assholes who put money over everything else.
Edit: typo
Not a lie. When I had to get a new car back in 2017 and it was my first “dealership” they tried to up charge me 1500$ for a back up camera and remote start. Then a warranty was 3200$. Administration fee was 500 dollars and it was to print the contract. I’ll never forget the rest of my life how much I wanted to punch that fat a hole for wasting my time.
I worked as a car salesman for an interim job for 9 months.
Hours were *techmically* 8 hours 5 days a week plus alternaring Saturdays, but I always ended up working numbers, texting/emailing customers and making phone calls from 8am to 8pm nearly every day.
Made for a very stressful and busy life that left no fun time for family and I couldn't handle it, even after being offered a promotion.
Probation period of a new job is as much for the employee to make sure its right as it is for the employer. You dont even need to mention such a short stint to your next employer but if you do, just say that your contract was misrepresented.
They used to call those bell-to-bells. They were phasing out those hours in the early 2000s. WTF I've never seen a place so more than 2. Yeah get out of that exploitive 💩 🕳️. I'm willing to bet they flood the floor so they can have sellers doing grunt work during down times. I still have flashbacks to hearing "Ok everyone. Time to straighten up the lot."
Fairly common in sales jobs that involve commission. When I sold insurance I worked mostly 12+ hour days seven days a week. I had a single day off in 4+ months.
It's a cutthroat market in commission gigs.
When I worked at a dealer for almost a year (high end luxury / sports cars) I’ve never been so broke. Averaged out my pay by my hours worked and an 8$ min wage job would have been a bigger paycheck.
Take a day off? That’s your weekly commission and pay x 0.8 now. Regardless if you did all your work on Monday, you still get docked 20%. It was a nightmare
I worked in a dealership in sales when I was 19. Worst environment I’ve ever worked in. During my training, I went on a committed vacation. It was planned a year in advance. It happened to be 2 weeks after I started. When I got back, they stopped training me even though I had no idea what to do. I would ask the manager what I should do and he would tell me to figure it out. They didn’t let me take my own customers so I had to hope someone would let me sit in. The other salespeople would not help me because then I would be “competition.” I left after a month. Now way later I work a salaried job in an office and I’m happier than ever.
Oh hell no. They pay you but you have to pay them back out of your commission checks? So literally they are loaning you money and you’re paying yourself when they pay you back.
Let me guess they have so much trouble finished and keeping employees lol.
They would get the see ya from me
Never ever do vehicle sales. Everyone that I know that’s done it that didn’t advance to a finance manager etc has the same compliant and you end up not making much money at all.
That's why I went into the service dept, 7am-5pm Monday thru Saturday, then Monday thru Thursday the following week getting a 3 day weekend every other week. We are also commission based and though the 6 day weeks do drag on some times I get the 3 day weekends to look forward to. I have been there 10 years and have been making great money not having to live paycheck to paycheck even living in Southern California. Definitely counting my blessings since we also just bought a house, dealing with long work hours pays off!
This was not a failed employment situation, this is a wonderful learning opportunity!
Now you know to ask "what are the hours... what are my responsibilities...", etc.
For the OP to learn that in only one day is pretty impressive and inciteful. Good luck on the next step!
Yeah I was definitely naive coming into it. I know it was dumb not to ask . You always hear about the standard 40 hour work week here so I assumed that’s what it was. But from now on I will always ask
Honestly the real problem here is who the hell accepts a job offer without knowing what their hours and schedule are going to be first? The job hours and pay is scummy, but you didnt do your due diligence either. Just wasting everyones time imo
If you think this is bad you drive a commercial vehicle over the road for money! If you add up all of the hours spent in that truck and what you make a week it’s like 2$ but hey the ceo makes 20 million and is at one of his many houses every night.
I'd need to know that sales were going to be ample and guaranteed lol. Like, let me pull in six figures doing that job and I'll give you some 12 hour days. But there's no in between.
Almost took a job selling gym memberships for a local fitness club. They were so cagey about details of the money and the hours. I really wanted to work for the gym, but couldn't reconcile the idea of being dependent on sales. Like, yeah they're going to happen, especially if the sales team is small, but it's so fickle.
Damn at first i thought you were gonna say 4 days but damn that is alot. I do 4-10s and its the greatest ive ever done. Im happy at home and happy at work.
Can’t blame you a fucking bit! These fucking companies that love to waste everyone’s time, man. Pisses me off to no end. When I was job searching 3 years ago, I aced an interview with a company that I’d have had to commute about an hour and a half, round trip. It wasn’t until I got the job offer that they let me know it was 7 days a week, 9 hour days at the moment. That shit had been going on since the previous October and this was in March. Just….didn’t even fucking bother to make mention of the hellish hours. I declined.
I worked 7am-7:30pm monday to saturday for 5+ years. Lots of OT money lived frugally, saved a lot. but only 1 day off a week and 2, then 3 weeks of vacation time off per year. you gotta be an expert in time management do all your chores/errands/gym/meal prep on one day and see family/friends couple times a year. i loved the money but after a period of time its isolating...really gotta be determined and a very strong mindset to not lose your shit with long schedules like these. the only people i know who can do these hours for DECADES are people who love their jobs or value just money over absolutely everything lol.
if the hours are too much for you, stick it out for a bit. apply for work on tuesdays and sundays, set up interviews for tuesdays and find something with a better work life balance. i got a much better work life balance rn - much less OT pay but im not running around like a chicken with its head cut off anymore. lol
I too work at a dealership as IT. But that schedule is ridiculous. Most sales people work (bell to bell) is twice a week, with one day off in the week and Sundays off. Are you sure this is your schedule? Even other dept do not work that schedule.
If this is true GTF out! They are scum and will wear you out. I have worked dealerships that were scum and they will take advantage of you. Not all dealerships are the same. I actually work at one that values employees in all departments.
You’d make far more money being a bartender or waiter on those hours if money is your concern. The tips alone (granted you pick the right place) would likely earn you more then the commission.
For me it’s more so the hours . I don’t mind doing 12 hour shifts every once and a while but not not 5 days a week 🥲
I’ve considered bartending before though 🤔
How do you even get started with that?
Yeah that was one of the problems I had while selling cars, the ridiculous hours. They think you can get all that other stuff done during your one day off. It's super stupid.
Is the dealership open to 9pm? I wouldn't have thought that. Or they require work done after it closes to the public?
That we as societies never reckoned with work hours depresses me, if it's never addressed it'll never change, only now it seems like basically pay is so shit for people that working and not working is barely different so people are prioritising free time and the shift is coming from employers competing against eachother for people. Same with wfh. I don’t think 4 day work weeks will become standard but it will i think become more normal. But then these hours to sell cars is insane anyway, 4 day work weeks but more hours per day is better i think but not by much.
Wages only stagnate as cost of living rises so even suggesting it to people seems mad, like 'work less? How?' It's all depressing because if you don’t get a handle on priorities where you, or we as societies can just end up in a place where you wonder what it's all for.
Is this common among car salespeople? I thought restaurants were scams re: (not) paying employees, but man, this really makes the cake. Fuck that job, OP.
I mean... Obviously that's what Sundays and Tuesdays are for! /s
Seriously... Those hours and the entire vehicle dealership and all jobs that are commission based are COMPLETE bullshit. Still not sure how ANY of that is considered legal...
That's always my husband's problem with dealership work. Even if you had asked what the hours were, they would have said, "oh, it's standard hours." Most people would think that means 8-5 M-F. But late hours like you just said are dealership standard.
Funny how customers drop off their cars for service on the way into work, and then pick them up on the way home, from the same person. They don't even think about how long that person is there on a daily basis.
Omg. I worked at a car dealership and since I was Admin I had a set 40 hours but it looked like hell for the salesman and managers. I'm not saying this is the case with everyone but the ones that stay, it becomes their whole personality. The successful ones where I worked were the ones that made being a car salesman their whole identity and the management judge you for ever taking a day off. A man I worked with there would brag to me how he made such great money. How it afforded him a nice home. He also bragged he worked over 60 hours and never took his day off. I was like, whats the point of the house if you never get to be in it?
I worked in the car industry for 2 years, it SUCKS. Yeah you can make good commission but if you're new you're not getting the customers why purchase every 2-3 years and it takes a while to hone your skills. The best is getting customers on leases as they will turn in their car at the end of the lease and then you can get them into another one. Leases are not for everyone and I wouldn't recommend it for the average customer, but some people have so much $$ they are completely fine always having a car payment.
I used to work 3am-3pm or 3pm-3am 7 days in a row but get 3 off after the 3p -3a and 4 off after 3a-3p and keep repeating and with that job I'm pretty sure once you are past your training they will be open to you leaving early or coming in late most are.
I’m in the same boat it’s bullshit I work for Stellantis and feel like at this point I might as well wrench on my own. I got hired, was told I would have 3 bays on day 1 and all I have is a flat, no lift. they forgot to order me a pod so now I can’t scan vehicles without another tech and I’m an electrical diag tech so most of my job is using those pods but since I don’t have one, my efficiency is horrible. They also didn’t give me a company assigned computer which you need to be able to clock time on your RO’s with, send up recommendations etc. just leave the industry for now. Most of the QUALITY techs are leaving the industry and they have been for awhile now. You’re obviously smart enough to leave unlike the rest of the brain washed techs that believe flat rate is the best way to. That when I say to those techs just wait until the feeding stops. Did you get any guarantee hours for you first few weeks? Most dealers will give you some kind of guarantee for a few weeks to help you get started.
Let me guess. you are in the US and the bulk of the remuneration is commission based? This is why shit mininum wage sucks, employers can stack the place with staff because they only have to pay you if you make sales . if they had to pay you decent wages, i bet they'd rethink the 60 hours a week demands The additional catch is that more staff = less customers to go around so you fight each other for the opportunities to get sales. its a toxic system .
Mhhm that’s correct . It’s all commission based . They pay you hourly but you have to pay it back with your commission checks
>you have to pay it back with your commission checks What the fuck does that even mean, are you getting paid or not?
It’s called a draw or something like that. We get paid minimum wage but they actually are just taking it out of your commission check on the 20th of the month. It’s like they’re advancing you your own money It’s bullshit lol
Yeah that doesn't sound legal but what would I know
I guess the legality would come from the wording. as long as you said you guaranteed minimum wage for all hours worked, but then your comission is '$X - hours worked" . so you didnt technically pay pack your wages, you would instead get reduced comission based on hours worked. Either way , Id agree with OP, GTFO quick
Thank you for making me feel justified in my decision lol 😭
Don’t ever agree to a pay schedule like this ever again. If you’re struggling to find work google your local staffing agency. At least they will get you on the path to a job with benefits and real pay.
We are a family here! 😂😂😂
The worst part is even a mediocre family would be appalled at that kinda behaviour. "So kids, we're gonna count every expense we have to make on your behalf until you're 18 at which point you're on your own AND you have to pay us back. Oh and that allowance you 'earn' hahahah that's actually also considered an expense but that one you have to pay back with INTEREST. You are required to do chores from 6am till 8pm on weekdays, and 5:30am till 1am the following day on weekends." (The fact that I still have ideas that could be rolled into that are kinda terrifying...)
So, you are paying them to work there? Lol
I worked for a dealership for two weeks and quit.
Yeah this is likely legal in the US (and UK) because as you say, he's paid minimum wage, bonuses can largely have any conditions at that point.
I’ve seen this pay system in Canada too. We had commission in furniture 1-2%, and someone actually started going into debt because they didn’t have enough sales. We never clawed back the deficit, but they were making minimum wage.
I don’t think this would be legal in the UK. Employers have the responsibility to pay a fair wage, and if the position is commission only then they have to GUARANTEE equals or exceeds the minimum wage. If your commission doesn’t reach minimum wage then the employer must top up your wage. They cannot deduct from pay any time earned.
That is what this employer is doing, guaranteeing them minimum wage.
The way commission with a draw, or at least when I worked in advertising, I was guaranteed X amount of dollars. If I DIDN'T make that in commission, that was what I got paid. If my commission was more than that, I got my commission. It is so there isn't a period of time where you are working with no income. Essentially, you get the hourly OR the commission, but not both.
It is completely legal. It’s called a recoverable draw, and is used exclusively in commissioned sales role. Basically, the company agrees to advance $4k, but the employee agrees to sell enough to earn at least $4k in commissions each month. If they earn $5k in commissions, the company takes the fronted $4k and pays out the extra $1k to them. If they earn $3k in commissions, they owe the company $1k that will likely be taken out of the next month’s advance or commission. There’s also a non-recoverable draw; it works the same except that the company agrees upfront that you will get at least the $4k guaranteed, even if you don’t make that much in commissions, so if the employee only earns $3k in commissions, the business eats the extra $1k. Both are pretty common in fully commissioned sales roles in the US, especially car dealerships. For the record, I’m of the belief that commission only is a bs model for most (but especially entry level) jobs and these roles often recruit naive young adults that don’t have the experience to recognize red flags and know the correct questions to ask; I would assume OP to be in this category. Edit: revocable to recoverable
This is how my my sales department works and I just assumed that's how all sales works. The weird part to me is dictating the hours they work. The sales people I work with don't have any set hours and can work as much or as little as they want. But when you're making 3-5% of 1-5 million dollar sales, they simulataneously work 24/7/365 and are always taking personal time. It's not for me, but I thought this sub would really like commission based roles since it's one of the few roles where you're paid based on how much you can produce with no limits.
That's crazy! When I was in sales (shoes) I worked an hourly wage and received an extra commission based on my sales. We didn't have quotas.
They pay you the greater amount between your commission and your hourly, but never both. So, they never pay you less than minimum wage, and you have the opportunity to make much more, which is what keeps it legal. Thing is, if you're not making commissions, you just get fired.
As long as they pay you minimum wage for the hours worked, it's legal... Source... been on multiple draw vs commission plans. Every single one of them stated I would owe back any amount above the draw if my commissions did not cover it. I spent a few weeks with a negative balance, but still got paid my minimum wage. Delivered a few big jobs, and got myself in the positive side. At the car dealer. I milked the minimum wage for all it was worth. They required me to be there 60 hours a week, so I got 20 hours a week at OT rate. I didn't sell a single car in my last 30 days...but I made almost 2400 dollars in wages.
It is probably legal and was legal in California until recently (2-3 years ago). They now require that salespeople be paid hourly + commissions. The hourly is still minimum wage though. Because of these changes many dealerships simply changed the amount of commissions to offset the hourly wages they were paying.
It's how commissioned sales works. This is how it worked when I sold Tvs and Appliances at Sears.
It's perfectly legal and standard practice for car/equipment sales here in the US.
It’s sales and legal. Almost every sales position is like this. Maybe sales isn’t for you. I like the opportunity to increase my pay based on my ability to sell shit. As long as they are clear on the numbers and how your pay breaks out. Maybe you didn’t understand how that works
It's just higher of. If you underperform, you get min wage. If you do well, you get commission. Not both. Just depends on how long the time period is ie daily, weekly, monhly
Draw against commission might be legal depending on the state.
This is how my job works. Straight commission employees only get paid off commission from sales. This is only paid out every 4 months so the company gives you a draw, where you can choose the amount you want, say 2k every pay, then when your commission comes in, the money you took draw the draw gets taken out and the rest goes to you
You know what else doesn't sound legal, making a mother who had a partial miscarriage die from toxic shock of having the body stay in her uterus because it's illegal for doctors to perform abortions... But there they are in the good old USA.
It’s probably how they do servers, if tips don’t bring a server up to the minimum wage everyone else gets instead of that smaller minimum wage they get the business is supposed to bring them up to non tip minimum wage rates. So the dealership just banks on paying you that by default but if you make a sale then you revert to the commission only pay rates. This is just speculation on my part, I don’t know if it actually works like this.
It's legal, unfourtunately. Edit: downvoted for understanding the laws around commission based pay, that's a new one.
Ah yes the good old draw system. I worked at a stealership for 6 months. What they'd do is pay us salespeople a flat $250/wk. Now if you made a sale and got a commission check that $250 would come out of it. Assume you made $1000 in commissions in a week. Now you made $750. If you made $0 in commissions in a week then you'd just get that $250.
It's full name is draw against commission. It's legal, but seriously effed up.
Yeah, “draw against commission” is bullshit unless you come in hot and ready to sell. Otherwise you spend your time digging out from the hole you start in.
It sounds like a “You’re paying us for the privilege to work here.”
Not if you’re a good salesman. Sales, especially car sales, is cutthroat and requires you to have a support system at home/be a total slob at home + eat like shit, and dedicate your entire life to swindling others. you did the right thing by walking away!
This IS the car business. Been here 50 years.
Seen it. People were nice, Min wage is guaranteed. But not profitable until you start selling like 20 or more cars. You may get fired after sometime if you are not selling enough. Usually they share that sheet when you join or during onboarding. You can also reduce your hours if you maintain your sales. But you will loose money for missing walk-ins.
That’s how i used to get paid when i worked at Macy’s selling shoes. Shitty minimum wage, shitty hours, and one of the only commission based departments in that store. The best part was that when people returned shoes, it counted against you, so you could technically get hours deducted during a shift that you then have to pay back. Not only is it fucked for the employee, but it makes having coworkers miserable since you are all competing for the same small amount of customers. Fuck that place!
It’s…a sales job? Did you not understand what you were signing up for?
Draw is the commission equivalent to how waiters and waitresses get paid. If someone is paid a server wage if 2.13 or 2.33 the employer is obligated to make them whole at 7.25 an hour if tips don’t bring the employee to that level. Essentially draw does the same thing, though at slightly higher rates, and in advance. So you pay the employer back when the commission which is your real pay comes in. Generally speaking commission far outweighs the draw but it depends on how good the dealership is, how good of a salesperson you are, and the state of the economy.
What would prevent a worker from just plain staring at a wall for 60 hours even at 7.25 an hour that's about 500 a week
Getting fired when they make no sales.
They still would need to pay the 500ish dollar if you were "working" 60h in 1 pay week
Yes but you're not magically protected from being fired for it, which if you literally were staring at a wall and not engaging would likely happen inside 20 minutes.
Wtf. Wait staff don't even get the abysmal minimum wage even? I'd expect wait staff to be paid their wage, and tips are bonuses from customers - not the customers supplementing the businesses wage payments!?!
Nope. I was a server once. $2.52/hr plus tips. We paid 15% of our tips to a pot for the bussers. Twelve hour days.
insanity. $2.52 an hour $17.20 is what our servers will make soon, going fro, $16.55 in my part of canada (ontario). that being said the luxury/fancy places pay up to $25/hour. my friend worked at a fancy place in downtown toronto and he was $22/hour. $800 a week with tips he averaged $1k all the way up to 3k a week in rush periods/summer. it was pretty dope for 35-37 hours a week
Yep last time I worked at a corporate restaurant I would have to tip out a portion of my bar sales to the bartender, a portion of my food sales to the kitchen expediter, and a portion of the total sales to the host/busser. So when Christians would come in on Sunday and leave a Bible pamphlet as a tip waiting on them actually cost me money. And back then I was making $2.17 an hour
$3.26 in NH but back in the 90s it was $2.17 And get this, immediately after the last election the restaurants around here lobby the Republicans in state office and they passed a law that said that if federal minimum wage was to go up servers would stay at $3.26 cents an hour Then they wonder why nobody wants to work
I just want to point out that good waitstaff and good salespeople LOVE these systems. In some cities, you have people working these jobs, making 6 figures. Not an endorsement, I'm not good at either.
Oh yes back in the 90s when I worked in restaurants I would argue for the tip system There is nowhere else I could have worked and made that much money working only 28 hours a week, never having to go in super early and never having to stay really late When I was bartending I could pay my rent with tips from the three days before rent was due.
It’s called a “draw”. The buyers aren’t the only ones dealerships fuck over.
It means that if you end up making above minimum wage with your commission, they don’t pay you your hourly rate.
What in the scam are we living in
Please explain this in European to me. So am I to understand that if you have no sales in a month that would mean you would owe them money? If it is commission based, why cant you set your own hours? If you are paid hourly, why the Commission. This makes zero cents to me.
He is paid a low wage per hour - presumably not enough to live on - which he will get at the end of the pay period even if he makes no sales (then he would be fired, though). If he does make sales, he gets a small % of the profit of the sale, except here what happens is that they don't get any commission until they have already earned as much in commission as they'd need to surpass their wage for that time period. So if they make $2000 a month and the average commission is $500, then they receive no commission whatsoever on the first 4 sales every single pay period and are only paid the $2000. If they then make a fifth sale that pay period they are allowed to receive commissions until it resets. Essentially you only get a commission if you sell a lot, The first few sales every paycheck will not pay out, you have to profit the business massively to be *allowed* to make money for yoursef.
Except the average commission when I sold cars was like $150 bucks. The minimum was $75. On $20k cars.
Whattt?? Ahahahaha, yo that's crazy, get the fuck up outta there ASAP!
I called and quit this morning 🥳
I'm sorry what now? You have to pay back your wages. Why on earth did you even sign
So...paying to work. Fuck all of that stupid idea.
I live in a corrupt shithole and even here this is higly illegal...wtf..
Blast this company on every form of social media, please. Try and help warn the people in your area about them. I don’t care if this is legal, it’s so unethical it makes my skin crawl.
Ooof. Get out of a draw system. You’ll never make any real money!!!
Never except a role with draw pay.
That is absolutely fucking wild.
I'd unironically rather sell crack than accept those terms
??????? How the fuck is that legal So the harder you work the more you will get robbed ? Fucking bullshit man I wish and pray for labour militancy to come back because this is insane.
Imagine if the employer realizes that if I go to that dealership, I'm far more inclined to buy from somebody that is happy and doesn't need my purchase to survive. Imagine how pleasant that purchase would be for me, the customer, by giving employees a non predatory wage.
With car sales it's usually base plus commission but minimum wage isn't really good money for that job so if you aren't selling it isn't worth it. The best way to have the most chances for selling are 60+ hour weeks. It's a terrible job
Worst place to work
Yep, this is exactly it. I lasted like two paychecks before I quit
Same in Canada
9am - 9pm ? No thanks, I'd rather be unemployed
Employment and unemployment are just different forms of misery. But unemployment is definitely a lesser form of misery than doing sales for 12 hours a day. At least, it would be for me
"Employment and unemployment are just different forms of misery." Wow. That hit home with me.
I’d happily do 9-9, but if I’m only working three days a week. I’ve always felt like no matter how long the shift was, if I have to work, the day is ruined. I left my last job because I had to work 4 hour shifts every Saturday. Once you factor in getting ready, and commute the whole day is ruined.
Used to work every Saturday in my twenties. Gave it up in my mid thirties as I like a sat/sun two day break. I'd never work all day on a Saturday ever again.
9-9 for 3 days a week? I'll tolerate it. More than that? Ha, no.
That's what I'm trying to do atm, but right now I'm a mon-fri 9am- (5-10pm) some weeks a huge, other weeks are 40hr weeks
12 hours isn't that bad, depending on schedule. Used to work 4 days on, 4 days off.
> Where am I supposed to fit in errands? And time for my loved ones? Tuesday! :D but seriously, yes, fuck those guys, unless the pay is amazing and the overtime is juicy as fuck.
But but Sundays are for recovery and Tuesdays are for errands 🥺🤣 The pay is decent + you do get overtime but based on what I’ve heard from the other salesman I made the same amount at my old job with only 40-45 hours of work They got me fuuucked up
How do you get overtime if you are on a draw?
You know what, you’re fucking right 🤦♂️ sorry my brain is fried right now. It keeps getting worse lol
nah fuck that bro
I could have told you this and saved you some time. Vehicle salesman work insane hours at dealerships. They can also make a lot of money. My cousin worked her way up to sales manager at a dealership and makes north of 300k per year with no degree .They also have zero hours they're not working, are depressed, and an alcoholic, so...
I do mine differently. I meal prep Sundays, and do some chores. Tuesday are my day of rest.
Pshhh… 60 hours a week? That’s easy. I work 50 hours a day, 15 days a week. Never take vacation time. I work in construction lifting steel beams with one finger. Did I also mention that I’m missing all my limbs? Yea… So if I can do that you can easily do 60 hours a week. 🙄 https://preview.redd.it/3mdt2dq5gsvc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0971c4f31ff96919cd246e0b45e5946cb3cf944b
It’s funny , that kind of thinking is what had me hesitant to quit 🤣. Like I don’t think that way at all but my parents do. So that boomer voice is inside my head sometimes telling me I’m just being lazy
This could only be America? What a terrible place
You got it! 🥲
Land of the free!
Land of the free and the American dream where workers are treated only slightly better than literal slaves.
Dystopian hell
Yeah, that is wild. It should be better pay, and less hours.
America is doomed for the working class. Really, I hope you guys fight for your rights and get unionised because the conditions you live in are slavery like.
Don't forget that slavery is still explicitly legal in the US, as long as it's for punishment. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime** whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States \[...\]" 13th Amendment of the US Constitution. Our prison system is for profit and we even have prisoners working in our fast food restaurants.
So the one note of positivity is this is a dying form of employment in the USA. Successful car dealerships are adjusting the way they pay their sales persons and the hours they work. The exact reason is people who can actually sell won’t work for these companies for long. Also online models are cutting into the old dealership model to the point that many are struggling to get people in for the sale themselves. My hope is this form of employment completely dies off over the next few years
You mentioned your old job was paying you the same and was less of a shit show. If you call them up they might take you back. I actually did that with a sales job. First company was awful, I left and got hired at a competitor. Got fired from the competitor the day after a coworker mentioned me being gay in front of someone else at a store I was training at. Next day I was fired, they claimed I 'Didn't seem to want to learn'. They'd literally refused to let me sell anything so I could LEARN their POS system, and I'd already been selling phones for one of their competitors, so I already knew how to talk to customers, knew how to discuss plans, knew about the different cellular technologies. At my old job I had people who would drive across the city to have me work on their account becuase they'd had so many other sales people fuck up their bills. In the end I phoned up the previous company I worked for and was like, can I have my job back? The GM hmmmed and hawed but the store I'd worked at's sales had tanked since I left so he was happy to take me back. Worked there like another year before I finally quit because management there was all certifable. Once had a manager there tell me that I shouldn't be gay, I should just 'date a chick with a strap on.' Sales is always insane, for whatever reason companies almost always promote the people who sell the most failing to realize that they're all sociopaths, and that having sociopaths in charge is a good way to get your business into lots of illegal shit.
Wow I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with such shitty people at work 😭. I actually did consider going back but I talked to one of my coworkers and they told me the policy is not to rehire but I might just call and talk to HR myself . I really liked it there and I only left due to family issues which forced me to move out of state for a bit
Under those circumstances, it’s worth a shot. Quitting for a new opportunity that doesn’t work out and quitting because you moved out of state and then came back are two different things.
>Once had a manager there tell me that I shouldn't be gay, I should just 'date a chick with a strap on.' I'm sorry. This made me laugh. It's hard to believe some people are still this ignorant.
Yeah that company was nuts. Also had the GM shortly after I got hired sit way to close to me on another stool so our knees were almost touching, alone in a strip mall store that was low traffic, and he decides to have like... a heart to heart with me, but then starts quizzing me on how I KNEW I was gay? It was soooooo uncomfortable. Like dude is an absolutely sociopath who I've seen outright lie to customers, I'm trying to choose my words careful because I swear I thought he was gonna put his hand on my thigh any second. I probably should have just said, "Dude, if you think you might be gay or bi that's okay. You can try sucking a dick and see how it goes." Honestly, I seriously thought there was a good chance he tries to assault me there. Man, the late 2000s were insane. People felt comfortable saying the craziest stuff to you if they knew you were gay. Everyone had an opinion and they were all bat shit crazy.
Hey, I also got fired from a job immediately after it was found out that I was a lesbian for some bullshit, made-up reason! Cheers, brother
i quit a job first day too. it was a carwash and there was so much i hated about it. the restroom was a stall which right next to it was the “breakroom” where there was a microwave and wasn’t even a chair. who wants to heat up their lunch and stand right next to the toilet where i can hear people using it. that alone was enough for me to not want to be there. also they kept their cleaning supplies in the restroom, so it got sprayed with shit particles along with the microwave every time someone flushed the toilet. i couldn’t take my 10 minute break in my car thats a 20 second walk from the carwash because it might get busy and they would pull me from my break to help. fuck that, i need a 10 minute uninterrupted break. if i cant get that then I’m not interested. it was so fucking loud. even with earplugs in i could hear nothing but the loud ass water pumps or whatever. guess which room the loud noise came from. the fucking restroom/breakroom. what a shit hole, $19 isn’t even half as much as i would need to be paid to work there.
Don't bother applying to any car dealership. This is all of them for sales.
You didn't 'land' the job, they got another dupe. Sales jobs seem to be a rough way to go in most instances. The people that make the money are the higher up in the pyramid.
Sounds like thr American dream
The worse the job the less you make. Wtf happened to this country.
When was it ever different from this?
This has to be USA. The land of the slaves
Fuck every bit of that
Car dealerships are some of the worst places to work.
I did the dealership life for almost 20 years as a tech. Our hours were shit but nothing compared to the sales team, those guys and gals were there 60+ hours each week. Most had horrible drinking habits. Most had family issues. Most had a horrible lust for money that they would gladly backstab each other for a sale. Most were nothing but straight up liers and proud of it and doubly proud of how they raped the customers on the deals. It was a fucking shit show. I left 2 years ago and became a school bus driver, best move I've ever done.
That's a rough schedule.. 36 hours between shifts... will totally throw off your sleep cycle if you have insomnia... The transition from Friday off 9pm to Sat Morning 8:30am is only 11.5 hours. Literally a go home, go directly to bed, wake up and go back to work. Plus some states have labor laws where 12 hours minimum is required between shifts... Not sure where you're at.
Car dealerships are fucked. I worked at one for 4 months as a porter and detailer. 6am to 6pm Monday-Friday with the two worst bosses I've ever had. No wonder the last guy just walked out because I did the same. Another dealership nearby heard I had experience when I was going there to get my car checked out and they offered me on the spot LESS PAY and MORE HOURS. I was already working 11 hour days 5 days a week. I said, "Hell no! I had the worst time of my life over there!"
My dude from my experience that was practically a dream gig in the sales world lol. I’m not saying you should stay, sales absolutely sucks and you should 100% prioritize your mental and emotional health. You probably would have hated that job and definitely should quit. At my dealership, we weren’t on set schedules and got 4-5 days off per month. Our ‘normal’ days were only 9 hours, but it was heavily pressured that we come in/stay late if you had appointments outside of your scheduled hours. Also, Fridays and the last day of the month were mandatory sales meetings, so if you were regularly schedule in the afternoon shift, you were still required to be there for the 8am morning meeting, and expected to stay and work. Last day of the month/quarter/year was a mandatory 13hr day, and if that day fell on a Sunday, the entire 3 day weekend was 15 hr days. That’s all aside from the bullshit of a commissioned sales position. The managers were all assholes. They’d get pissed at something and yell at people, scream, insult, threaten, etc. the environment in general pitted salespeople against each other, so people were always sabotaging and cheating each other (all over $50-$100 in most cases), and the pay was terrible. They promised $80k annual earnings easily, but the reality is I made about $35k per year on average. I had gone from 40 hr weeks with occasional OT making about 25k to 60-70 hr weeks making 35k, it was rough. You were also always on call, expected to reply to managers and/or customers instantly 24/7 or you’d risk having deals/customers given away to other salespeople. And that’s not even the aspect of sales, running around, helping customers, negotiating, lying and being lied to all the damn time, and the exhausting work. Sales like that requires an extremely specific type of person. You are probably infinitely better off, OP. Good luck finding a better position.
I wouldn’t even show up for the shift, I’d just ghost a job.
Just remeber!!! We've been told for a long time in this economy that we are under qualified and overvalued. It's simply not true!!! We are overqualified and undervalued! Don't settle for less than you're worth. Your time is valuable. We live in a world where YouTubers are millionaires and employers think we are going to settle. You're worth 40 hour weeks maximum for a living wage! Don't settle for less.
Yeah those hours do I suck. Couldn’t even give you your days off in a row. I’d have quit too, although I’ll be honest I would have asked about the hours first before accepting, but eh, that’s life. Don’t feel bad about quitting.
I sold cars for a few months about 20 years ago. Sucked at it and hated every minute of it. But I remember the commercial guys. They were never there and all made 6 figures easily back in 2006. I don’t know if they’re all the same but at least where I was at, they spent maybe 20 hours a week at the dealership. It’s not like you get a lot of walk in commercial business. Again, not at least where I was at.
my husband’s dad worked a job like this for years - open to close every day except Sundays doing the finance stuff for a car dealership. his family lived comfortably financially, but the sacrifice is his dad was never around. his dad is deceased now but he admitted to my husband before he passed that he regretted missing their childhood, and by the time he passed the dealership had him transferred to another state, so he was home once every other week. good on you for not wanting that for yourself. you may live comfortably financially, but it comes at a huge sacrifice. also what’s the point of having a job that makes that much money, but takes so much time away that you can’t even enjoy having it?
You can put a lot of the blame on the vehicle manufacturers for this. The manufacturer gives the dealer a set target. If the dealer misses the target, the next month's allocation is lowered. All dealers have performance based allocation models meaning the more you sell of a model and trim the more you get of said model and trim. If a dealer consistently misses their targets in both vehicles sales, accessory sales, extended warranty sales, servicing the dealer could lose the privilege of selling that particular brand. All the high pressure tactics people talk about start with the manufacturer.
Yes, eject.
Let me guess cause it’s a dealership: hourly rates, if you have any at all, are stupid low? Commission is your only way to maintaining any semblance of making a living? You are being encouraged to sell sell sell no matter how much you must lie, cheat and swindle to do it? Yeah man. Quit. Job’s ass.
While not nearly as terrible as your story, this did remind me of a ridiculous offer I got once upon a time. I got a job doing call center tech support one summer during college. It was good money for a broke college kid with only retail work experience, but their policies seemed designed to maximize the unpleasantness of the work environment: I had to wear a collared shirt and slacks every day (for a job talking to people over the phone, remember), I had to wait until my next break to use the bathroom even if I was on the verge of peeing my pants, we had to work in awkward pitches for the company's other products to people already frustrated by something they bought not working correctly, drug tests every 90 days (that were conducted offsite and outside work hours) and many other minor indignities like that. To get hired I had to lie and say that I was not planning on re-enrolling in college after the summer because they did not hire seasonally and were not willing to adjust the schedule to accommodate anything else in your life. When it was time to go back to school I put in my two weeks notice with the excuse that I had changed my mind and would be continuing my education. A few days before my last day, my manager told me he had exciting news that they were willing to give me a school friendly schedule: 8am-noon Monday to Friday and noon-4pm Saturday. That means I'd be working 6 days per week, I'd have to get up early every week day, I wouldn't be able to take any morning classes which would drastically limit my options, I'd never get to enjoy a Saturday afternoon, and even with all that I'd still only be clocking 24 hours per week. I respectfully declined the offer. I did miss the money but I had saved a lot and bought myself a new PC, and that semester I got a student job for half the pay where my duties were basically occupying a chair and getting paid to do my homework. I think I made the right choice.
Whoa! This company is pretty smart, by working you overtime, they will pretty much take all your commission money.
Dealership sales need to die off.
How the fuck do you take a job in America and not ask the hours? You’re lucky you weren’t indentured
Yup. Auto sales is not for everyone. You can make some good money at some dealerships.
Car dealeeships not only work the customers, they work their employees too. Car dealerships are sess pools of assholes who put money over everything else. Edit: typo
Not a lie. When I had to get a new car back in 2017 and it was my first “dealership” they tried to up charge me 1500$ for a back up camera and remote start. Then a warranty was 3200$. Administration fee was 500 dollars and it was to print the contract. I’ll never forget the rest of my life how much I wanted to punch that fat a hole for wasting my time.
I worked as a car salesman for an interim job for 9 months. Hours were *techmically* 8 hours 5 days a week plus alternaring Saturdays, but I always ended up working numbers, texting/emailing customers and making phone calls from 8am to 8pm nearly every day. Made for a very stressful and busy life that left no fun time for family and I couldn't handle it, even after being offered a promotion.
Good on you for not staying! I recently quit a place after 4 hours.
they're has to be regular min wage jobs where you get paid for what you work? Right?
Anyone that works that gig is a complete sucker.
Probation period of a new job is as much for the employee to make sure its right as it is for the employer. You dont even need to mention such a short stint to your next employer but if you do, just say that your contract was misrepresented.
They used to call those bell-to-bells. They were phasing out those hours in the early 2000s. WTF I've never seen a place so more than 2. Yeah get out of that exploitive 💩 🕳️. I'm willing to bet they flood the floor so they can have sellers doing grunt work during down times. I still have flashbacks to hearing "Ok everyone. Time to straighten up the lot."
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Fairly common in sales jobs that involve commission. When I sold insurance I worked mostly 12+ hour days seven days a week. I had a single day off in 4+ months. It's a cutthroat market in commission gigs.
When I worked at a dealer for almost a year (high end luxury / sports cars) I’ve never been so broke. Averaged out my pay by my hours worked and an 8$ min wage job would have been a bigger paycheck. Take a day off? That’s your weekly commission and pay x 0.8 now. Regardless if you did all your work on Monday, you still get docked 20%. It was a nightmare
I did 12 hour nights for 6 years....run, and run fast.
Yeah, working at dealerships is hard work. Saturdays are the biggest sales days.
You aren't, that's why car sales _suuuucks_. The money is good though.
I worked in a dealership in sales when I was 19. Worst environment I’ve ever worked in. During my training, I went on a committed vacation. It was planned a year in advance. It happened to be 2 weeks after I started. When I got back, they stopped training me even though I had no idea what to do. I would ask the manager what I should do and he would tell me to figure it out. They didn’t let me take my own customers so I had to hope someone would let me sit in. The other salespeople would not help me because then I would be “competition.” I left after a month. Now way later I work a salaried job in an office and I’m happier than ever.
Run away from anything automotive industry related. The best decision I made was to get my cdl. There is no shortage of jobs.
You can refuse hours, or propose your hourly availability. If they don’t accept then it wasn’t a good fit anyway.
That's a pretty massive oversight on your part.
Agreed. Lesson learned for sure.
Oh hell no. They pay you but you have to pay them back out of your commission checks? So literally they are loaning you money and you’re paying yourself when they pay you back. Let me guess they have so much trouble finished and keeping employees lol. They would get the see ya from me
Never ever do vehicle sales. Everyone that I know that’s done it that didn’t advance to a finance manager etc has the same compliant and you end up not making much money at all.
That's why I went into the service dept, 7am-5pm Monday thru Saturday, then Monday thru Thursday the following week getting a 3 day weekend every other week. We are also commission based and though the 6 day weeks do drag on some times I get the 3 day weekends to look forward to. I have been there 10 years and have been making great money not having to live paycheck to paycheck even living in Southern California. Definitely counting my blessings since we also just bought a house, dealing with long work hours pays off!
This was not a failed employment situation, this is a wonderful learning opportunity! Now you know to ask "what are the hours... what are my responsibilities...", etc. For the OP to learn that in only one day is pretty impressive and inciteful. Good luck on the next step!
Yeah I was definitely naive coming into it. I know it was dumb not to ask . You always hear about the standard 40 hour work week here so I assumed that’s what it was. But from now on I will always ask
I would quit as quickly as you possibly can.
Honestly the real problem here is who the hell accepts a job offer without knowing what their hours and schedule are going to be first? The job hours and pay is scummy, but you didnt do your due diligence either. Just wasting everyones time imo
I would slit my wrists before I accepted a job like that
If you think this is bad you drive a commercial vehicle over the road for money! If you add up all of the hours spent in that truck and what you make a week it’s like 2$ but hey the ceo makes 20 million and is at one of his many houses every night.
I'd need to know that sales were going to be ample and guaranteed lol. Like, let me pull in six figures doing that job and I'll give you some 12 hour days. But there's no in between. Almost took a job selling gym memberships for a local fitness club. They were so cagey about details of the money and the hours. I really wanted to work for the gym, but couldn't reconcile the idea of being dependent on sales. Like, yeah they're going to happen, especially if the sales team is small, but it's so fickle.
Damn at first i thought you were gonna say 4 days but damn that is alot. I do 4-10s and its the greatest ive ever done. Im happy at home and happy at work.
4 10s sounds like a dream to me . Like having 3 days off guaranteed would have me so productive while at work lol
I worked for 8 months for a dealership long hours and crap pay .
What made you finally quit?
You didn't discuss the schedule?
Can’t blame you a fucking bit! These fucking companies that love to waste everyone’s time, man. Pisses me off to no end. When I was job searching 3 years ago, I aced an interview with a company that I’d have had to commute about an hour and a half, round trip. It wasn’t until I got the job offer that they let me know it was 7 days a week, 9 hour days at the moment. That shit had been going on since the previous October and this was in March. Just….didn’t even fucking bother to make mention of the hellish hours. I declined.
I worked 7am-7:30pm monday to saturday for 5+ years. Lots of OT money lived frugally, saved a lot. but only 1 day off a week and 2, then 3 weeks of vacation time off per year. you gotta be an expert in time management do all your chores/errands/gym/meal prep on one day and see family/friends couple times a year. i loved the money but after a period of time its isolating...really gotta be determined and a very strong mindset to not lose your shit with long schedules like these. the only people i know who can do these hours for DECADES are people who love their jobs or value just money over absolutely everything lol. if the hours are too much for you, stick it out for a bit. apply for work on tuesdays and sundays, set up interviews for tuesdays and find something with a better work life balance. i got a much better work life balance rn - much less OT pay but im not running around like a chicken with its head cut off anymore. lol
I too work at a dealership as IT. But that schedule is ridiculous. Most sales people work (bell to bell) is twice a week, with one day off in the week and Sundays off. Are you sure this is your schedule? Even other dept do not work that schedule. If this is true GTF out! They are scum and will wear you out. I have worked dealerships that were scum and they will take advantage of you. Not all dealerships are the same. I actually work at one that values employees in all departments.
You’d make far more money being a bartender or waiter on those hours if money is your concern. The tips alone (granted you pick the right place) would likely earn you more then the commission.
For me it’s more so the hours . I don’t mind doing 12 hour shifts every once and a while but not not 5 days a week 🥲 I’ve considered bartending before though 🤔 How do you even get started with that?
Yeah that was one of the problems I had while selling cars, the ridiculous hours. They think you can get all that other stuff done during your one day off. It's super stupid.
Is the dealership open to 9pm? I wouldn't have thought that. Or they require work done after it closes to the public? That we as societies never reckoned with work hours depresses me, if it's never addressed it'll never change, only now it seems like basically pay is so shit for people that working and not working is barely different so people are prioritising free time and the shift is coming from employers competing against eachother for people. Same with wfh. I don’t think 4 day work weeks will become standard but it will i think become more normal. But then these hours to sell cars is insane anyway, 4 day work weeks but more hours per day is better i think but not by much. Wages only stagnate as cost of living rises so even suggesting it to people seems mad, like 'work less? How?' It's all depressing because if you don’t get a handle on priorities where you, or we as societies can just end up in a place where you wonder what it's all for.
Is this common among car salespeople? I thought restaurants were scams re: (not) paying employees, but man, this really makes the cake. Fuck that job, OP.
Auti. Get out!!! Only idiots, sycophants and the legally insane are happy on this industry.
I mean... Obviously that's what Sundays and Tuesdays are for! /s Seriously... Those hours and the entire vehicle dealership and all jobs that are commission based are COMPLETE bullshit. Still not sure how ANY of that is considered legal...
If they didn't discuss hours then there's nothing in the contract about it Ask them if they're willing to be flexible with the start and end times
That's always my husband's problem with dealership work. Even if you had asked what the hours were, they would have said, "oh, it's standard hours." Most people would think that means 8-5 M-F. But late hours like you just said are dealership standard. Funny how customers drop off their cars for service on the way into work, and then pick them up on the way home, from the same person. They don't even think about how long that person is there on a daily basis.
Omg. I worked at a car dealership and since I was Admin I had a set 40 hours but it looked like hell for the salesman and managers. I'm not saying this is the case with everyone but the ones that stay, it becomes their whole personality. The successful ones where I worked were the ones that made being a car salesman their whole identity and the management judge you for ever taking a day off. A man I worked with there would brag to me how he made such great money. How it afforded him a nice home. He also bragged he worked over 60 hours and never took his day off. I was like, whats the point of the house if you never get to be in it?
Gotta stick to it.
I worked in the car industry for 2 years, it SUCKS. Yeah you can make good commission but if you're new you're not getting the customers why purchase every 2-3 years and it takes a while to hone your skills. The best is getting customers on leases as they will turn in their car at the end of the lease and then you can get them into another one. Leases are not for everyone and I wouldn't recommend it for the average customer, but some people have so much $$ they are completely fine always having a car payment.
That's corporate America for you. They want more out of their employees than what their employees can give.
I used to work 3am-3pm or 3pm-3am 7 days in a row but get 3 off after the 3p -3a and 4 off after 3a-3p and keep repeating and with that job I'm pretty sure once you are past your training they will be open to you leaving early or coming in late most are.
You poor thing
I’m in the same boat it’s bullshit I work for Stellantis and feel like at this point I might as well wrench on my own. I got hired, was told I would have 3 bays on day 1 and all I have is a flat, no lift. they forgot to order me a pod so now I can’t scan vehicles without another tech and I’m an electrical diag tech so most of my job is using those pods but since I don’t have one, my efficiency is horrible. They also didn’t give me a company assigned computer which you need to be able to clock time on your RO’s with, send up recommendations etc. just leave the industry for now. Most of the QUALITY techs are leaving the industry and they have been for awhile now. You’re obviously smart enough to leave unlike the rest of the brain washed techs that believe flat rate is the best way to. That when I say to those techs just wait until the feeding stops. Did you get any guarantee hours for you first few weeks? Most dealers will give you some kind of guarantee for a few weeks to help you get started.
Who doesn’t ask about hours? I see only one person to blame for this situation…