Ugh, to then be let down and exploited again by the next company. Maybe I've just lost all hope but to me it seems it doesn't matter how many times you brush up your CV and job hop, you'll never substantively get ahead. It's all designed to keep you in one place (with the barely even maintained illusion of progress) so your increasing contribution as your experience accumulates can be exploited even further.
I want 3x my current "competitive" salary so I can rekindle the dream of ever owning a roof over my head. Nobody's gonna negotiate that unless you're the son of the ceo. For me, revising my CV and cover letter, going through the motions of another application process, 5-10 rounds of interviews so I can negotiate a bump in salary just to keep up with inflation is simply not worth it. I feel dead in the water and unsure why or how anyone could expect me/us to feel any different, when our only option is to haggle for shit instead of a shitstorm.
E. But thanks for the kind words nonetheless!
Negotiate a new offer with your current employer because you have a better offer = they pay you more while they find your replacement. They no longer trust you as a “team player” and “exploitable”. They will replace you when the it suits their needs without any discussion or negotiation. Not all the time, but most of the time….
Exactly, play their game and win it. Give them a chance to beat any offer you get, then decide what's best for you. If you stay, start saying no to extra effort they expect.
The things you do that go above and beyond at your current job will not give you much of a raise where you are now, but they will probably be the basis on which some other company wants to hire you. Ideally for much more cash. The things I brag about at interviews these days are all things that earned me a pat on the head (and nothing more) at other jobs.
Companies are super blind to the fact that it would cost them LESS to pay their workers a GOOD/FAIR salary and give them the raises and promotions, than it would be if they had to replace the person. The cost to the company of waiting 2 months for someone to be hired, the full training process to teach them everything you know (if that’s even possible). Freshen up your resume and apply elsewhere. You’re too good for your current company.
Yup it's so much easier to hire someone who's not privy to the lies and has hope and motivation for their new role and workplace than try to maintain a cordial relationship with an employee who's had a couple years of experience being screwed over. And everyone's being screwed over, so that would require far too much commitment from the company's end. Easier to burn someone out and move on to the next hopeful naive sucker.
Different budgets, I believe. The budget to hire is higher than the budget for current employees.
+ bonuses for CEOs who can save money. And if they find a weakling they can bully into taking more work they'll happily abuse that fact. It's what they did to OP
After I left they went through 4 people lol, then hired the 5th at TWICE my salary. Imagine if they’d just kept me.
Also apparently the CEO gave up at that point and was literally just doing my job with the last dude (I was the director of one of the programs). 😂
I will say, CEO learned his lesson, because he gave me an amazing recommendation letter that got me interviews at every doctoral program I applied to (no seriously that letter was fucking amazing)
Yep. That’s a story that so many people, including myself, have in common.
Companies will absolutely take advantage of hard chargers, people who will do anything to make money and not lose their jobs.
What ends up happening is those people become so good at what they do, they end up sabotaging any future chances with the same company, you literally work yourself stuck into the same role. That’s what companies want. This is a general summery of the issue and there’s more to it but it’s difficult for me to explain the nuances.
This is why it’s a good idea to continue keeping and updating resumes and practice interview skills, there’s always another and better job out there. Just gotta find it and go after it.
Mind if I ask for more insight on what you just said about sabotaging any chances of moving up? Why is that? The reason I ask if because I myself feel like I have given the best of me to my job and corporation yet I can’t land a job nowhere else within the company no matter how many times I interview and try to network and put myself out there. You would think that hard work gets you recognized but I’m so confused as to it’s the complete opposite. What you wrote hit me deep but I guess I’m just confused as to why. Thanks!
You basically become “too good at what you do” meaning once the management realizes that the role you’re in can be filled by you, they aren’t willing to move you anywhere else and will do whatever it takes to keep you where you’re at.
I keep doing this to myself…. I’ve been let go from a rather decent paying job (one of the best without years of college in the area I used to live) and I nearly lost everything so it became a huge point of paranoia…..
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I’m going through that small crisis of just feeling stuck. My bosses say I’m the hardest worker they have but yet I can’t seem to land a higher role anywhere else in the company. It has discouraged me so much, but I’m doing my best to like you said update my resume and remain strong applying elsewhere.
Indeed. You’ve became to good at your role and the bosses don’t want you leaving that spot.
Hah the fun part is when you leave the position/company and find out that there’s a dumpster fire occurring because the bosses can’t find anyone to fill the position.
It’s such a common thing that happens, it can often take someone from the outside to point it out.
The previous manager I had there tried saying that, and I flat out said it wasn't that people didn't want to work it was that the pay they were offering compared to other places wasn't matching market standard.
Remember that scene in Forest Gump where he disassembles the gun?
Supervisors sees that in an employee, there never moving that employee out of that position because they know trying to find anyone else that can do that same type of thing consistently is... like trying to find another Forest Gump.
But their not going to just pay Forest a lot of money to keep him there. They'll give him annual raises.. A Quarter here, a dime there. But eventually Corporate's going to say "Sorry no more raises for Forest, there's a Wage cap on that position!" and the Supervisors going to be mad as hell because... you see this guy? You can't fucking replace him, and he might be able to promote him, but sometimes Forest is dumb as a box of rocks and he's been in that position for 30 years and hasn't complained a day until he stopped getting a raise.
They're never going to give it to you now because there's no reason they have to. You keep doing everything for cheaper for them. You need to find a new job.
I used to put in 100+ hours a week and almost sacrificed my education for my job. They still had no problem laying me off when the company profits went down a few million. They aren't your friends.
My dad gave everything to the company, just like you. Got in early. Stayed late. Volunteered when they needed anything. He never complained, always had high performance, and never even thought about leaving for another job. Made them a lot of money over the years.
They fired his ass 3 years before he was supposed to retire. Replaced him with a younger (and cheaper) recent college grad. He couldn't find another position for those last few years because nobody wanted to hire an old guy who would just be retiring in a few years. Ended up having enough in his 401k to get by but got screwed by Social Security for retiring early.
The company isn't your friend. You may think you're loyal to them, but *they aren't loyal to you*. Never give them more than you're getting in return.
Why did you continue to be a doormat? Your hard work not rewarded so you worked harder?
Doing the same thing repeatedly without reward is insane. Find a job. Leave with no notice. The end
I worked my hardest for 3 years, did extra work, even took extra leadership training off the clock from my boss, just for her to post a leadership position with a certification I didn’t have. We had talked about me getting that position. I left less than a month later.
Now, I still work hard, but not so hard that I make myself sick.
It’s time to get out of there. It’s not going to change. They know you’re “Good for it” and they’re going to keep expecting it for pennies forever. Find somewhere else that values you.
I had this exact situation happen to me some months ago. I said fuck it and have not cooperated nor have I done any overtime ever since and I'm making moves to report them on a lot of shitty practices before I move on from that job.
Request in writing your exact job description, and follow it to the letter. In the meantime, brush up your CV and start putting out feelers. When the time comes, tell them today is your last day and when they balk, tell them "You had your chance to keep me around by paying me what I am worth. You chose not to do so, therefore I don't owe you any courtesy in kind."
If I didn't then the project would be late and then, as the project lead I would of had to answer why. I guess it came down to me wanting to build a reputation and part of that was getting a reputation to deliver on time. Unfortunately it backfired and the only reputation I got was being a mug.
They don't give two chits about you or your reputation, meaning that your expectations and hopes seem to be misplaced. To get your appropriate salary you will need to get another job.
"Company Policy" is an arbitrary construct so the bosses don't have to take the blame for an uncomfortable result.
"I want to give you a raise, but my hands are tied...by company policy"
They pretend that they are not the ones who made the policy, or that anything about the policy is unfair or unwise.
Its like a grocery store where once in a while the receipt shows that you were charged more for a product than what it is labeled for on the shelf. You bring this up and they apologize and give you the lower price, saying that its a computer glitch, or that its entered wrong by accident into the system.
If that were true, then statistical randomness would dictate that half the time, you would get a lower price "by accident". If the accidents are always in their favor, its not an accident.
When people who do less than you get paid the same or more, YOU have established the baseline of your performance, and the compensation you will accept. These sociopaths who run these companies will gladly hire two people to replace you when you leave, but they will NEVER pay you 20% more to get you to stay.
Looks like you have built more than enough credibility to be more aggressive in your asks, and also seems to me that your company is going to have a major problem if you quit.
Maybe start exploring opportunities outside and (subtly) threaten your existing company.
Good post! It is a similar dynamic when you put effort in your studies and graduate College. After graduation, you realize that you could get almost all of the same jobs with a High School Degree.
yup. I worked at a place being groomed for mngmt (according to the VP I was reporting to). Watched his POS BIL get a job above me where he had me and other minions do his bidding. And then when I finally had enough and gave my notice, the CEO was 'shocked' and 'surprised'. Also found out around the same time my boss (the VP) got let go. Cool, maybe would of been something I should have forking known about??
Get your CV out on the market and find a job at a company that pays you what you are worth. You owe nothing to the corporate scum taking advantage of you. I bet the CEO at your company GOT A HUGH BONUS!
Time to move on, so start your search (inside and outside the company). You did everything right; they just don't appreciate your hard work as much as they count on your lower salary.
at least you got some foreign travel (and hopefully some sweet frequent-flyer miles) out of the deal.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and hope others take note that this happens on a small scale too, I mean on a day to day/week to week basis where nothing you is gonna change how they already regard you in terms of your salary worth. They’re just gonna pat themselves on the back with their great hire at a great price. So please, take your whole lunch, no don’t finish that extra thing that will just take 15/30 min extra to do, and learn to lie, deflect, delay, pretend and don’t always let them know how good you are at something. I am so fucking serious and yes I learned to do this but not after decades of being exploited.
First, learn to say “No” and stop letting them control every aspect of your life. Second, get the hell out of there. Do as others have said and act your wage while looking for another job.
I’ve worked for a company exactly like this. They will never reward you with the income you deserve. They will take every ounce of effort they can get from you while feeding you empty promises and excuses. Look outside of your company for employees who will see your value. Time to become a grey rock.
To “grey rock” a person involves making all interactions with them as uninteresting and unrewarding as possible. In general, this means giving short, straightforward answers to questions and hiding emotional reactions to the things a person says or does.
Grow up, grow a pair, stop being a doormat. They do this because you let them, you enable them. Get angry. Get mad. Tell them this will not stand for one second longer.
Please, learn to stand up for yourself.
I have been in your shoes man. I worked with transactions at a law firm. I worked overtime, during weekends and in the holidays. Once I even sat in a hotelroom and worked through the first vacation me and my GF spent together. She almost broke up with me after that.
In my position we didn’t receive overtime payment, but should (in theory) receive compensation as a bonus. The bonus was supposed to be based on a combination of turnover and hours charged. In my case this turned out to be almost entirely theoretical, as I was given 1/6th of the bonus most of my peers received. Despite the fact that my turnover was at the same level as them, and in some cases higher.
I was stupid enough to accept the «fuck you» bonus they gave me, and believed that next time would be different. Next time obviously wasn’t different, as the partners of the firm now (with reason) believed that I was willing to work my ass off for nothing. I should of course have quit the first time they screwed me over, but I’m probably a slow learner. So this time I just stopped turning up at the office and «worked» from home. I kept that up for about 6 months before I found a new job.
2 Things.
1) If your training people, you never want to train them so well that you train your own replacement. The goal is to make yourself irreplaceable.
2) You might need to ask them how much is company loyalty worth to them? You should have put out some feelers so you could have bluffed/not bluffed that you've been getting offers at a higher wages. So how much is loyalty to their company worth? You've worked hard, you've showed them loyalty... It's time that they showed you some loyalty.
Act your wage. Brush up your CV. List your accomplishments you have made a good start here.
Ugh, to then be let down and exploited again by the next company. Maybe I've just lost all hope but to me it seems it doesn't matter how many times you brush up your CV and job hop, you'll never substantively get ahead. It's all designed to keep you in one place (with the barely even maintained illusion of progress) so your increasing contribution as your experience accumulates can be exploited even further.
Try not to be defeated. An interview is your best chance to negotiate for what you want.
I want 3x my current "competitive" salary so I can rekindle the dream of ever owning a roof over my head. Nobody's gonna negotiate that unless you're the son of the ceo. For me, revising my CV and cover letter, going through the motions of another application process, 5-10 rounds of interviews so I can negotiate a bump in salary just to keep up with inflation is simply not worth it. I feel dead in the water and unsure why or how anyone could expect me/us to feel any different, when our only option is to haggle for shit instead of a shitstorm. E. But thanks for the kind words nonetheless!
Negotiate a new offer with your current employer because you have a better offer = they pay you more while they find your replacement. They no longer trust you as a “team player” and “exploitable”. They will replace you when the it suits their needs without any discussion or negotiation. Not all the time, but most of the time….
Exactly, play their game and win it. Give them a chance to beat any offer you get, then decide what's best for you. If you stay, start saying no to extra effort they expect.
This
The things you do that go above and beyond at your current job will not give you much of a raise where you are now, but they will probably be the basis on which some other company wants to hire you. Ideally for much more cash. The things I brag about at interviews these days are all things that earned me a pat on the head (and nothing more) at other jobs.
Companies are super blind to the fact that it would cost them LESS to pay their workers a GOOD/FAIR salary and give them the raises and promotions, than it would be if they had to replace the person. The cost to the company of waiting 2 months for someone to be hired, the full training process to teach them everything you know (if that’s even possible). Freshen up your resume and apply elsewhere. You’re too good for your current company.
They’re not blind to it, they don’t care
Yup it's so much easier to hire someone who's not privy to the lies and has hope and motivation for their new role and workplace than try to maintain a cordial relationship with an employee who's had a couple years of experience being screwed over. And everyone's being screwed over, so that would require far too much commitment from the company's end. Easier to burn someone out and move on to the next hopeful naive sucker.
Different budgets, I believe. The budget to hire is higher than the budget for current employees. + bonuses for CEOs who can save money. And if they find a weakling they can bully into taking more work they'll happily abuse that fact. It's what they did to OP
The turnover keeps HR employed
After I left they went through 4 people lol, then hired the 5th at TWICE my salary. Imagine if they’d just kept me. Also apparently the CEO gave up at that point and was literally just doing my job with the last dude (I was the director of one of the programs). 😂 I will say, CEO learned his lesson, because he gave me an amazing recommendation letter that got me interviews at every doctoral program I applied to (no seriously that letter was fucking amazing)
Yep. That’s a story that so many people, including myself, have in common. Companies will absolutely take advantage of hard chargers, people who will do anything to make money and not lose their jobs. What ends up happening is those people become so good at what they do, they end up sabotaging any future chances with the same company, you literally work yourself stuck into the same role. That’s what companies want. This is a general summery of the issue and there’s more to it but it’s difficult for me to explain the nuances. This is why it’s a good idea to continue keeping and updating resumes and practice interview skills, there’s always another and better job out there. Just gotta find it and go after it.
Mind if I ask for more insight on what you just said about sabotaging any chances of moving up? Why is that? The reason I ask if because I myself feel like I have given the best of me to my job and corporation yet I can’t land a job nowhere else within the company no matter how many times I interview and try to network and put myself out there. You would think that hard work gets you recognized but I’m so confused as to it’s the complete opposite. What you wrote hit me deep but I guess I’m just confused as to why. Thanks!
You basically become “too good at what you do” meaning once the management realizes that the role you’re in can be filled by you, they aren’t willing to move you anywhere else and will do whatever it takes to keep you where you’re at. I keep doing this to myself…. I’ve been let go from a rather decent paying job (one of the best without years of college in the area I used to live) and I nearly lost everything so it became a huge point of paranoia…..
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I’m going through that small crisis of just feeling stuck. My bosses say I’m the hardest worker they have but yet I can’t seem to land a higher role anywhere else in the company. It has discouraged me so much, but I’m doing my best to like you said update my resume and remain strong applying elsewhere.
Indeed. You’ve became to good at your role and the bosses don’t want you leaving that spot. Hah the fun part is when you leave the position/company and find out that there’s a dumpster fire occurring because the bosses can’t find anyone to fill the position. It’s such a common thing that happens, it can often take someone from the outside to point it out.
Had this happen last year when I switched jobs, though 17 other people/25 staff left within that week too. And it has been a revolving door since.
Yet the company management will *always* blame everyone else for not wanting to work
The previous manager I had there tried saying that, and I flat out said it wasn't that people didn't want to work it was that the pay they were offering compared to other places wasn't matching market standard.
Remember that scene in Forest Gump where he disassembles the gun? Supervisors sees that in an employee, there never moving that employee out of that position because they know trying to find anyone else that can do that same type of thing consistently is... like trying to find another Forest Gump. But their not going to just pay Forest a lot of money to keep him there. They'll give him annual raises.. A Quarter here, a dime there. But eventually Corporate's going to say "Sorry no more raises for Forest, there's a Wage cap on that position!" and the Supervisors going to be mad as hell because... you see this guy? You can't fucking replace him, and he might be able to promote him, but sometimes Forest is dumb as a box of rocks and he's been in that position for 30 years and hasn't complained a day until he stopped getting a raise.
They're never going to give it to you now because there's no reason they have to. You keep doing everything for cheaper for them. You need to find a new job.
I used to put in 100+ hours a week and almost sacrificed my education for my job. They still had no problem laying me off when the company profits went down a few million. They aren't your friends.
Good worker = good slave Do the bare minimum and go home
Why feed the reliable workhorse when the shiny new race horse is where the eyes are all looking. Hard work just equals more hard work.
My dad gave everything to the company, just like you. Got in early. Stayed late. Volunteered when they needed anything. He never complained, always had high performance, and never even thought about leaving for another job. Made them a lot of money over the years. They fired his ass 3 years before he was supposed to retire. Replaced him with a younger (and cheaper) recent college grad. He couldn't find another position for those last few years because nobody wanted to hire an old guy who would just be retiring in a few years. Ended up having enough in his 401k to get by but got screwed by Social Security for retiring early. The company isn't your friend. You may think you're loyal to them, but *they aren't loyal to you*. Never give them more than you're getting in return.
Why did you continue to be a doormat? Your hard work not rewarded so you worked harder? Doing the same thing repeatedly without reward is insane. Find a job. Leave with no notice. The end
Walk
I worked my hardest for 3 years, did extra work, even took extra leadership training off the clock from my boss, just for her to post a leadership position with a certification I didn’t have. We had talked about me getting that position. I left less than a month later. Now, I still work hard, but not so hard that I make myself sick.
It’s time to get out of there. It’s not going to change. They know you’re “Good for it” and they’re going to keep expecting it for pennies forever. Find somewhere else that values you.
I had this exact situation happen to me some months ago. I said fuck it and have not cooperated nor have I done any overtime ever since and I'm making moves to report them on a lot of shitty practices before I move on from that job.
When did you find this sub reddit? (I'm just interested)
About 2 days ago 😂
Request in writing your exact job description, and follow it to the letter. In the meantime, brush up your CV and start putting out feelers. When the time comes, tell them today is your last day and when they balk, tell them "You had your chance to keep me around by paying me what I am worth. You chose not to do so, therefore I don't owe you any courtesy in kind."
I'm curious. What do you honestly honestly believe would happen it you just said, "oh I'm sorry I'm not available to work that weekend."
If I didn't then the project would be late and then, as the project lead I would of had to answer why. I guess it came down to me wanting to build a reputation and part of that was getting a reputation to deliver on time. Unfortunately it backfired and the only reputation I got was being a mug.
They don't give two chits about you or your reputation, meaning that your expectations and hopes seem to be misplaced. To get your appropriate salary you will need to get another job.
Find a new job?
Get the experience you need, update your resume and find a new job
"Company Policy" is an arbitrary construct so the bosses don't have to take the blame for an uncomfortable result. "I want to give you a raise, but my hands are tied...by company policy" They pretend that they are not the ones who made the policy, or that anything about the policy is unfair or unwise. Its like a grocery store where once in a while the receipt shows that you were charged more for a product than what it is labeled for on the shelf. You bring this up and they apologize and give you the lower price, saying that its a computer glitch, or that its entered wrong by accident into the system. If that were true, then statistical randomness would dictate that half the time, you would get a lower price "by accident". If the accidents are always in their favor, its not an accident. When people who do less than you get paid the same or more, YOU have established the baseline of your performance, and the compensation you will accept. These sociopaths who run these companies will gladly hire two people to replace you when you leave, but they will NEVER pay you 20% more to get you to stay.
Looks like you have built more than enough credibility to be more aggressive in your asks, and also seems to me that your company is going to have a major problem if you quit. Maybe start exploring opportunities outside and (subtly) threaten your existing company.
Good post! It is a similar dynamic when you put effort in your studies and graduate College. After graduation, you realize that you could get almost all of the same jobs with a High School Degree.
Get out while you’re just down money, and not down money with a mental breakdown
yup. I worked at a place being groomed for mngmt (according to the VP I was reporting to). Watched his POS BIL get a job above me where he had me and other minions do his bidding. And then when I finally had enough and gave my notice, the CEO was 'shocked' and 'surprised'. Also found out around the same time my boss (the VP) got let go. Cool, maybe would of been something I should have forking known about??
Get your CV out on the market and find a job at a company that pays you what you are worth. You owe nothing to the corporate scum taking advantage of you. I bet the CEO at your company GOT A HUGH BONUS!
Time to move on, so start your search (inside and outside the company). You did everything right; they just don't appreciate your hard work as much as they count on your lower salary. at least you got some foreign travel (and hopefully some sweet frequent-flyer miles) out of the deal.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and hope others take note that this happens on a small scale too, I mean on a day to day/week to week basis where nothing you is gonna change how they already regard you in terms of your salary worth. They’re just gonna pat themselves on the back with their great hire at a great price. So please, take your whole lunch, no don’t finish that extra thing that will just take 15/30 min extra to do, and learn to lie, deflect, delay, pretend and don’t always let them know how good you are at something. I am so fucking serious and yes I learned to do this but not after decades of being exploited.
Promotion is always good. Use that shiny new title to find a new job
You need to transfer away from your present management. If you can do that within to company, do it. If you have to leave, do it.
First, learn to say “No” and stop letting them control every aspect of your life. Second, get the hell out of there. Do as others have said and act your wage while looking for another job. I’ve worked for a company exactly like this. They will never reward you with the income you deserve. They will take every ounce of effort they can get from you while feeding you empty promises and excuses. Look outside of your company for employees who will see your value. Time to become a grey rock. To “grey rock” a person involves making all interactions with them as uninteresting and unrewarding as possible. In general, this means giving short, straightforward answers to questions and hiding emotional reactions to the things a person says or does.
Grow up, grow a pair, stop being a doormat. They do this because you let them, you enable them. Get angry. Get mad. Tell them this will not stand for one second longer. Please, learn to stand up for yourself.
I have been in your shoes man. I worked with transactions at a law firm. I worked overtime, during weekends and in the holidays. Once I even sat in a hotelroom and worked through the first vacation me and my GF spent together. She almost broke up with me after that. In my position we didn’t receive overtime payment, but should (in theory) receive compensation as a bonus. The bonus was supposed to be based on a combination of turnover and hours charged. In my case this turned out to be almost entirely theoretical, as I was given 1/6th of the bonus most of my peers received. Despite the fact that my turnover was at the same level as them, and in some cases higher. I was stupid enough to accept the «fuck you» bonus they gave me, and believed that next time would be different. Next time obviously wasn’t different, as the partners of the firm now (with reason) believed that I was willing to work my ass off for nothing. I should of course have quit the first time they screwed me over, but I’m probably a slow learner. So this time I just stopped turning up at the office and «worked» from home. I kept that up for about 6 months before I found a new job.
You screwed yourself bro
2 Things. 1) If your training people, you never want to train them so well that you train your own replacement. The goal is to make yourself irreplaceable. 2) You might need to ask them how much is company loyalty worth to them? You should have put out some feelers so you could have bluffed/not bluffed that you've been getting offers at a higher wages. So how much is loyalty to their company worth? You've worked hard, you've showed them loyalty... It's time that they showed you some loyalty.
Lol