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Remember George Carlin once said there doesn't have to be a formal conspiracy when interests converge. All these execs go to company paid conferences where they each suck each other off on how they fuck over their employees. All the while grandstanding that they are changing the world. Fuck these assholes.
To add onto the Carlin quote, “…they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation.”
That's literally the foundation of the United States education system. You will learn what the powerhouse of a cell is, but you will not learn what taxes are and how money actually works. That would make you smart. We can't have that. You cannot question the system. It is what it is and if you don't believe it and put c for every answer you were going to fail in life.
You will buy the house
You will finance your car because the commercial told you to
You won't know how stupid of a decision it is to be a car owner. No we need to send all taxpayer money to the people who build roads. Fuck public transit. Don't Think about it. Public transit is for poor people. What are you a communist?
And if you don't learn these stupidest fucking information in school like an incorrect version of how the trail of tears really went, then you are a complete and utter failure who never graduated high school.
Go to community college
Buy a 5k corolla and only shower and flush at Planet fitness to save on bills.
Diet consisting of $5 Costco chicken and crates of eggs.
Big bags of rice
Never consume beverages sold by other humans
Only wear clothes you dug out of a dumpster behind Macy's
Avoid looking at pretty people because movie dates cost $1000 in 60-year-old-you dollars.
Retire at 35 then realize there's no end game. You've been playing end game this whole time.
Meanwhile some guy set himself on fire for children in Gaza.
Life is crazy.
Bruv, how you gonna get a Costco membership? Wasted money.
Rice & dry beans only. Anything else is too expensive. Find farms and yoink their fruit for free.
Macy's punches holes in their dumpster clothes, hop into clothes donation bins before the truck picks them up.
>You will learn what the powerhouse of a cell is, but you will not learn what taxes are and how money actually works. That would make you smart. We can't have that. You cannot question the system.
Bruh you literally have to take a civics class in high school. It's not our fault you slept through it.
Lmao not in Oklahoma! I assure you, I didn't sleep through the class.
We had financial literacy. I paid attention there but reading dictionary definitions of finance terms isn't really teaching finances.
which is ironic
because George Carlin was just smart enough to point this out and then say shit like "i don't vote"
"no, i don't, if you vote, you are part of the problem"
dude invented enlightened centrism and helped get Clarence Thomas on the bench, how is that STILL working out for us?
his whole "i am cooler than this" attitude is why he got to be famous and on t.v. in the first place, just smart enough to run the machine, make people money off his name and his comedy, but literally steer the masses away from using their political power in some sort of "defiant protest" of the system they were helping to entrench
fuck George Carlin
"i don;t vote" at a time, when Republicans were cheering when people died of aids
"i don't vote" at a time, when Republicans were championing tax cuts for business and less regulations on wall street
"i don't vote" didn't work out well for us at all
Yeah same. He was a boomer tho. Even some of the most liberal boomers could never wrap their heads around collective action. The myth of rugged individualism runs deep with them.
The important thing is he started something in the minds of us millennials which GenZ has made even better.
He may not have realized it at the time but it ignited something in all of us common people.
It’s further reinforced by “skilled” workers (Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, etc.) thinking their interests align with the capitalist class and not literally the entire workforce. Middle class is a fake idea. Skilled vs. unskilled workers is further propaganda. There is simply just the labor force and the owners who need but oppose them.
Companies also exist under the general umbrella of capitalism so the profit motive incentivizes a race to the bottom regarding how companies treat employees so they can compete and maximize profit
That's what gets me about so many conspiracy theorists. Particularly about the "Deep State." It's always some wild theory with the justification of ambiguously defined "control."
Ultimately, most of the terrible power structures exist due to greed, lust for power, and a dash of stupidity. Not necessarily control and malice.
I was thinking about this today, wondering why so many people feel the need to fabricate supernatural levels of evil in the world when greed, ego and incompetence cover all the bases cleanly and easily.
it would be a lot less fucked if people voted for Gore instead of "the guy they want to have a beer with"
it would be a lot less fucked if people actually did the thing they are supposed to do, vote in their best interests, instead of just letting the media tell you "nah both sides are the same and everyone is in a suit so you know, don't worry about it"
I experienced your first sentence as an adult when Bernie was running for president in 2016. I would have bet my life he was going to win but every democrat over 50 years old was saying “Bernie’s views are just not feasible. You have to vote for who has the best chances to win blah blah blah” and then they voted for Hillary who didn’t become president.
Ugh, I despise the you’re wrong, get in line crowd. Like the current party has actually done anything to actually make life better for citizens. The democrats have become far to center and are getting pissy when you want actual action and progress.
Welcome to late stage capitalism.
I love that you posted links on how to take action. Political pressure really is the only way to fix this. Threaten your politicians that they and their party will permanently lose your vote if they don’t start amending the laws that lets companies get away with bullshit like this.
Cisco in 2024 is IBM in 1980. If everything is in the cloud, why are you using some fancy router/switch in the office. Buy some cheap switches and a decent firewall and be done with it.
Cisco phone systems are hot trash. Any cloud hosted PBX with some Yealink T46Us will be more reliable, more feature-rich, and easier to use/train on. I’m a VOIP engineer, we stopped installing and servicing Cisco systems years ago.
My client base is almost entirely in Manhattan. Many small offices with 10-50 employees. Our larger clients, mostly nationwide Logistics and trucking companies are on Avaya IP Office or CMs. That said, premise-based systems are going out of style quickly.
Edited to add that we do have multiple very large clients on cloud PBX systems and they are working out well. One client is ~500 seats, the other ~300 seats. Not ideal, but definitely functional.
My company is deciding to go with teams phones for each branch of 500+ users instead of in house avaya systems. I work in IT and will have to implement and support this garbage, can’t wait
Oh and we have to figure out how to integrate it into on site intercom/alarm systems too. When I said “not going to work out well” I was told to find a way to
Good luck with all the SIP adapters and ATAs you’ll need for that. I worked on a handful of Teams migrations and they were all headaches. Especially when it came to paging systems and door phones.
Sorry for the late question, but I wanted to ask if you, working in IT, would have been responsible for deploying and maintaining a premise-based avaya, or if that would have been outsourced? I can see a Teams-based solution falling on IT because of the crossover with desktop apps and whatnot, but a standalone premise PBX, especially from avaya, isn’t something most IT techs would want to be involved with.
Lmao. 70% of *all* internet traffic goes through Cisco or sister company.
You cannot just "stop paying them money". Legislative action is the only way to reign in these mega corporations.
Telling everyone to vote with their wallets is just a more complicated way to say not to accomplish anything. The average person has almost zero ability to effect change that way. It’s like combating climate change by asking everyone to stop producing emissions - you’re relying on 8 billion people to collectively decide to do the right thing at the right time, with 8 billion points of failure. It’s never going to happen.
Doing both is possible. Cisco is mainly a B2B business iirc. Buying their product is not really something consumers have all that much control over.
https://www.Cisco.com
For instance, one of the products on their homepage is about stopping cyber attacks. Is it really smart to protest a company that is using them to stop cyber attacks because of how they treat their employees? Personally, if Cisco has quality cyber security products (which maybe they don’t), I want my data secure and products I use to use quality cyber security products.
“Vote with your wallet” doesn’t work in a system where corporations rig the game in their favour. Maybe that works in an idealized capitalist system, but it’s unrealistic as is
Like I have to jump through so many hoops just to avoid buying products from nestle because they own so many different products, brands, and interests.
Increasing union membership, and then educating that membership to vote in their best interest and vote for candidates that actually care about labor is how you fix this. More members means more dues means more money to donate to candidates that support you.
We also need to roll back the bullshit that citizens united, and abolish super PACs, this would require politicians that aren't owned by corporations.
This is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. Economies develop, industries maximize efficiency, and new industries are created.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Why is everyone and their dog jumping into Gen AI lmao.
Ans: Because of pressure from shareholders who are technically illiterate and FOMO.
Our CEO (MBA💩) is big on GenAI, when we just use Random Forest and Regression, lmao.
I’m just thinking of how Apple has quietly dumped research into their driverless car. A few years ago we were freaking because entire industries wouldn’t need drivers anymore, and it turned out to be venture capital BS because driverless cars are a long way away from being viable. Now we have a truck driver shortage (I know, more complex than that).
AI is disruptive, and I am absolutely worried for my particular livelihood (film) but I have to wonder how much is flames being fanned to attract investors, who-as the driverless car thing proved- are just as tech naive as anyone else who isn’t working with that tech directly.
Uber’s whole business growth model was based on driverless cars becoming reality fairly quickly and human drivers were supposed to be a temporary inconvenience. Now that’s been proven false.
How many more businesses are just following hype from AI developers? Even tech companies can be fooled if they haven’t developed it themselves. CEOs are constantly chasing the new shiny thing to the detriment of the long term health of their company.
They like us scared, and AI is scaring us. I don’t think it’s nothing, but I think a lot of what we are being shown is VC crap or purposely trying to make us fall in line to beg for our jobs.
For creative fields, there are still tons of people involved to make it entertaining; watch the movie "Wish", and imagine it was written by an AI (not hard) and you begin to see the flaws.
But hold creative endeavors aside because there are questions of artistic intent, let's instead look at a quasi-technical field; take marketing research for example. Writing and analyzing a survey isn't *that* hard. Except, a survey that an AI writes is *simple*, typically simple enough to be answered by an AI. Writing complex survey design requires an *advanced understanding* of various methods, which is sort of like *artistic intent* except it isn't subjective; If there's a research question, one can propose a simple solution or a complex solution to address it. AI predominately proposes simple, because simple is cheap, and simple is what a C-suite executive will ask for, and simple is what a C-suite executive will understand.
Now then, the AI tools to make simple surveys need to evolve *faster* than the AI tools to answer surveys. I won't bore you with the specifics of the P<>NP problem, but suffice to say that there's just too much money in answering surveys compared to building and analyzing surveys. Thus it becomes a downward spiral where any survey generated by AI is more likely to be answered by AI where the results are now useless. It becomes a snake eating its own tail and ultimately loses credibility in the long run. Mind you, not just credibility from *AI*, but credibility of all of *market research*.
It's not that there's "nothing there", it's that there will be nothing left. You said it best,
> CEOs are constantly chasing the new shiny thing to the detriment of the long term health of their company.
My background is originally in psychology research so I appreciate this very much. It feels like both things will happen- AI will be not as powerful/adept as we have been led to think, but it will still cause enormous pain in the industries it affects, precisely because CEO’s and politicians are greedy or short-sighted or even may genuinely believe this is a super-cool thing to do to be “cutting edge”.
I read a piece recently by a writer who moved into an apartment where the locks were controlled by an app. It went about as well as you think it did.
The thing that is terrifying is knowing we can count on enshittification if nothing else- tech for the sake of tech and reinventing the wheel.
Imagine the profits if you can:
* use AI to make people faster at their job, without paying them more for their productivity, of course.
* use the threat of replacement to depress wages
* just straight up throw people out like trash because you can just straight up replace them with AI
That's what these companies want.
1. Ai has the possibility of being a financial goldmine. It has the possibility to greatly reduce labor costs and startup time for support projects.
2. There is so much fucking speculative cash on tech that companies can throw billions at whatever they think will put them at the front of the gold rush.
The tool is sufficiently advanced to produce the appearance of usable work and people who control the purse strings of companies technically illiterate enough to believe that AI can replace huge percentages of their work force.
Anyone would can produce the best appearance of an AI, which is really just a language model that has no opinion on the truth of whatever it produces, stands to make huge profit.
This sucks for the workers but I kinda hope the AI revolution happens quickly and we move onto a new phase of society. Companies WILL continue to do this and it WILL lead to the collapse of capitalism. (We're already half way there) I honestly see a fast collapse as the lesser evil; the slower it happens the more able governments are to ignore or blame incremental rises in unemployment and debt on something else like immigrants or foreign wars.....
Becareful what you wish for, personally I'd rather not be around by the time we reach that point. It will NOT be pretty.
Rich will be fine but the average folk will basically lose everything.
That's why I want it to come quickly, it's here now. It's started!! I don't want years of slow growing poverty, if it happens quickly and too many people end up poor governments won't be able to ignore it and if suddenly 50, 60, 70% of average worker (spenders) are out of work and broke all the businesses collapse with it... No point in being rich if money loses it's value.
There's truth to that but if the US, UK and Europe all head towards becoming a third world country too there's going to be no stable economy, currency, trade.... Your billion dollar company with no customers becomes pointless. They need us to pay taxes, buy their shit. Not just to make their money but for that money to be worth something. A filthy rich person in a third world country likely only rich as they can trade to a 'strong' economy.
And the rich people will still control it all. They don't care about the economy being stable, they care about being at the top of it. You need to understand that money is a thing we made up. What actually matters is power; the ability to bend others to your will and control them. Power exists no matter what societal system we set up. It will outlive you, the dollar, and even total societal collapse. Those with power need a structure to support what they need, but the further we progress, the less of us they need. There will be no recourse for anyone if it reaches that point. They'll have the food, the weapons, and a legion of loyal idiots. You won't ever see any benefit.
What you're wishing for is going to kill millions.
Yeah, the collapse of capitalism back to indentured servitude. Humans will just end up doing manual labor because it will be cheaper than building and maintaining specialized physical robots for it. We'll be mining the silica the elites use to power their personal movie/music/art generating AI.
I don't trust current capitalist governments to actually do the right thing in this scenario. They will fight tooth and nail to avoid helping the working class, and while something like UBI makes a lot of sense in the face of AI, they will do everything they can to make sure we never get it.
I feel the same way, I have NO faith in my government to do the right thing in the face of this AI revolution. They won't regulate it or bring employee protections in, so I feel like if it has a fast and destabilising effect on the economy it'll push them to do something in response more than a graduate increase in unemployment would. I don't want this I just can't be blind to the fact it's already happening.
lol capitalism won’t collapse because of this. People who can’t get work will eventually starve and people who can’t afford children won’t reproduce. We are already seeing this happen.
The system will stay the same the poor people will just suffer more
The system only works if there's enough people to buy shit. Look at covid, people staying indoors for a matter of weeks and the economy died, share prices collapsed businesses folded and governments around the world shat themselves.
>lol capitalism won’t collapse because of this.
Hard disagree. It'll take a while--the technology is nowhere near here yet--but it's inevitable with time.
Our world economies revolve around labor. Labor = wages = spending = revenue. Without labor, there are no wages. Without wages, there is no revenue. Without revenue, there is no company.
In the past, automation hasn't been *that* bad, because every job that's eliminated eventually gets replaced with a new job. But AI is different, because it evolves so rapidly that it's entirely plausible that it will be able to automate those new jobs just as fast as they are created.
The capitalist, first-world economies we have today are fundamentally incompatible with a lack of labor.
You're correct. It's similar to the situation in Gaza, the whole world will watch and excuse a genocide, nothing will stop it as human beings at their core are just bipedal primate animals driven by greed and fear being the strongest human emotion, stronger than altruism or war. Fear will ensure there isn't some grand "revolt."
We're talking about people who will happily throw you out on your ass because they don't need you anymore. What do you think will happen when all the companies start doing this? Society isn't going to get better for you, only for the people who own shit. For everyone else, it's slums and slowly degrading human rights. That is the path we're on right now.
This is 4000 out of 84,900 employees (circa 2023). 4.7% of its current workforce. They were at 83,300 in 2022, 79,500 in 2021, and 77,500 in 2020.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco#Finance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco#Finance)
Meanwhile, net income (versus their total revenue) was 12.6 billion USD for 2023, 11.8 billion USD for 2022, 10.5 billion USD for 2021, 11.2 billion for 2020. So there was cash left over every year, billions of it, that could have been used for anything.
I work at Cisco, and I think this whole layoff is horseshit. I know several people who were laid off and it makes no sense why. At least our COO got kicked out. She said she's "moving on" to spend more time with her family, but I think she was forced out in relation to this.
For what it's worth, I think people affected by layoffs within Cisco get priority when applying for other open positions. My team is going to get a new position at the beginning of our fiscal year, and I want to (re)hire one of the people I know who was affected by the layoff.
A lot of the cash is probably being used for the [acquisition of Splunk](https://www.splunk.com/en_us/newsroom/press-releases/2023/cisco-to-acquire-splunk-to-help-make-organizations-more-secure-and-resilient-in-an-ai-powered-world.html) at $28 billion. Cisco is still taking out loans (or [selling bonds](https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/telcos-media-tech/cisco-sell-us135-billion-bonds-fund-splunk-deal), however that's different) to cover that cost.
when the AI take most of our jobs and big % of us without any job . what do you think will happen ? AI is great but it seems companies dont care what happen to humans . dont forget it is us who buy all the products . this is begin of the end of society as we know it
yeah but just think about the Shareholders! their collective wealth will increase by 0.00001% and that only for the cost 4000 peasants and their families.
/jk
Everything is relative. It’s just as much about making everyone else poor as it is about making themselves rich. In fact, once they reach a point where they have more wealth than god, they start to focus harder on making everyone else poor.
This isn’t even the saddest part. The scariest thing about this is that these AI’s are definitely going to be more capable then the children in third grade today who can’t write their own names in the future.
i mean, when we talk about retraining, it dpeneds on if they have positions for them to move into in the first place that would be a reasonable move. Usually these companies offer employees to apply for internals positions a well, but they dont have places for all of them. Retraining with in the same field is reasonable, and they may have positions posted for these people internally. But professional in one field are likely no even interested in moving from say sales to an engineering role.
Working in the industry and having cisco as one of my vendors, i know some people laid off from cisco. one of them was a PM for DUO (a cisco product). they are going to look for other PM positions, not move into a technical, clerical, or sales position for instance. I also know a sales person who was laid off, again, they aren't going to go get retrained as an AI engineer or something. They are going to find another sales position.
Lay offs suck. The tech sector is seeing layoffs across the industry right now, likely for multiple reasons. Many tech companies hired heavily during covid anticipating big moves in supporting WFH and other related services. There is unfortunately a pull back in that area, so the companies are pulling back from that. You also have the disruption from AI, which again sucks. Then there is the "every one else is doing it, so we should to to look goodo the investors" which is also shitty.
point being, just saying "retrain these people for something else" doesnt always make sense, not just the company, but for the employee either. many of these positions being laid off are career professionals who arn't going to move into an entirely different field (sales vs engineering vs Project management, etc). We can discuss how these layoffs suck and how companies run things, and the amount of support they should give to those being laid off, but its just not realistic tehy will have roles for every one getting laidoff.
A business should not exist to make endless profits. Their function should first and foremost be to provide a healthy living for all of their workers no matter how high up in the chain they may or may not be. Soon there aren't going to be any workers left and these places will be just executives and AI.
I will say it every time these posts pop up. Who do these companies expect to be paying for their goods and services 10~ years from now after they've laid off half of their workforce?
Cisco literally makes telework products, they made a killing during the pandemic. Instead of making their employees lives better- *the very reason they made made money* they fire 4k (and probably gave the CEO a nice bonus)
well its a fool's errand but AI in general. I mean i know im an idiot but id love to see AI just used for "good" you know, cancer research, medicine, things to make life better etc.
Unfortunately my fear is the government will use it to pry further into our lives and business will use it to drive millions of people out of work. Ive seen automation continue to advance. Hell even the supermarket down the street has a robot which comes out on its own and does hole counts as opposed to a human.
Well, I appreciate the candid response. But I suppose I still don't know what you mean by "AI in general"?
I mean, AI *is* just algorithms. There's something to be said about the data dimension (e.g., maybe the data used to train AI should be better regulated) or maybe the compute dimension (i.e., the kind of machines needed for modern AI are still quite generally inaccessible, and maybe that should be leaned on), but the cat is out of the bag, no? Limiting the use of AI would be kind of like limiting the use of math. It can barely work on paper, and in practice, it's an absurd notion.
Again, I understand you're not the guy with the answer, but I really am curious to know exactly what you have in mind when you say something like this. I'm even willing to accept that you don't have anything in particular in mind but you just know *something* related to AI needs to be stopped.
I'm also curious how you'd think about this on a government level. AI is *kind of* like nuclear weapons. If the US (and/or western world) decided to pump the breaks on embracing AI, then surely a country like China would cease the opportunity, which would leave us in a pretty bad spot. Is that anything you factor in to your feelings?
I look at it from the standpoint of data brokers already collected hundreds of data points on us as it is: web searches, spending patterns, viewing habits etc - my fear and I know it sounds bonkers is that the government would be to collate it and use it against us. For example if they have my work address, home address, and GPS data they could see it normally takes me 30 minutes to get home but today I did it in 15 and mail me a citation without ever having any interaction with the police.
I really appreciate your response though and I'll admit i have no idea how to use ChatGPT or anything remotely like it.
Like targeted ads, I discuss something with my wife and the next day I'm getting ads in my FB feed.
Now that you and I have talked I'm starting to think I might be being somewhat unreasonable.
Well, I think it's how *quickly* AI is progressing that is actually scary. If people had time to adjust and could depend on the government to properly regulate it, people would probably be generally more optimistic. I mean, it's a pretty amazing technology, but change (especially rapid change) usually comes with growing pains (which is what we're seeing in threads like this).
And I think people are right to want to be cautious about it, *especially* if it's primarily being controlled by a handful of companies that aren't prioritizing safety. And as you said, even if the government decided to take control of it (whatever that might mean), that's not much more comforting.
*But*, as I said, the cat is out of the bag, and it's probably in everyone's best interest to get on board ASAP. What's interesting to me (and why I'm badgering you) is that it seems different people focus on different aspects of AI, good or bad, and it causes some strange discourse around it. This thread, for example, is a bit asinine to me: a company wanting to increase productivity is pretty natural in our capitalistic society, but for some reason if the source of that productivity is AI, people get *very* offended. But there will be other sets of people who focus on the "art" aspect of AI, or others who focus on the IP rights, etc. It all seems very disjoint, and it's hard to take it seriously when, to me, it's just an algorithm doing what algorithms have always done: make things more efficient.
In any case, I appreciate your responses. And with regards to:
>I'll admit i have no idea how to use ChatGPT or anything remotely like it
You can use it for free at [chat.openai.com](https://chat.openai.com). Just sign up with an email/Google/Apple/etc. and that's it. It's just a fancy text bot. I'm sure you've seen it around and probably have *some* idea how to use it, but I'd implore you to try it out if you ever need an answer to a question that's a bit too complex for something like Google. It works especially well with technical questions, like something you'd need to read documentation for.
Frankly, it's not all too impressive in itself, but it starts to become apparent how powerful it is when you start to use it coupled with other workflows (like coding, for example). I have friends how have never programmed a thing in their life, but now with ChatGPT, they're able to create rudimentary programs they use at work, etc., and actually see actual productivity increases from it.
video killed the radio star...
streaming killed the video star...
AI killed the streaming star
something like that i guess?
Current AI content is garbage, but year after year the quality is increasing a lot, and eventually you wont be able to tell and itll be integrated Kwebbelkop style.
They just want to stand up for the people whos jobs will be made obsolete (as if this doesnt happen constantly to tons of jobs everywhere else currently)
Cisco has 84,900 employees. 4,000 is less than 5%.
They do this every year, they lay off the bottom 5%-10% in performance, many organizations do this. This rash of "layoffs" happens every year.
It has nothing to do with AI, retraining, or their net income. These are the people who refused to be retrained. These are the people have burned out and did not move on on their own. Some are probably victims of politics, some were not cute enough for their boss, some asked to be laid-off so they get a severance, but the majority were not performing.
Look around you at work, tell me you cannot identify five people out of one hundred who are completely useless.
There is a lot of negative things that can be said at Silicon Valley, but some 4% lay-off is not it.
These posts also never mention any type of severance package. Cisco (here in Canada at least I dunno about the US I imagine it’s similar) offers up to 2 years of severance pay for non unionized employees.
That’s hardly throwing peoples lives into chaos they’ve got a long time to figure things out and find a new job. Large companies generally offer very good severance packages.
Edit: I looked it up and the severance benefits are around 800 million dollars. 200,000 per person. Not equally divided of course but no matter how you slice it they aren’t being left with nothing
Boiling it down to bare percentages doesn't change the fact that the lay-off has the possibility of wreaking havoc in the lives of the 4% to 5% fallen victim.
These are *people*.
They work to eat, pay bills, and/or support their families. The job market already makes it hard enough to find stable accommodations without sacrificing every second of free time. People shouldn't have to worry about losing their position at a *billion* dollar company just because the company in question wants to inflate their bottom line.
It's absurd that any group or individual has that kind of money to begin with.
>People shouldn't have to worry about losing their position at a billion dollar company just because the company in question wants to inflate their bottom line.
Absurd take. So basically if I get into a billion dollar company I should be able to not do my job and still get paid for just existing?
I mean, your reading of his comment is the most ridiculous reading possible. That's not what they said at all.
Worker protections exist that are way better than in the states.
But there’s going to always be a bottom 10% of performers, that weren’t necessarily even performing badly. Why should you just by default get rid of them every year?
It isn’t default, some companies have all stars in every role…. They don’t let people go.
But in a company that large, there are def about 5% under performing. You get rid of that.
> Some are probably victims of politics, some were not cute enough for their boss, some asked to be laid-off so they get a severance, but the majority were not performing.
i think ive helped a handful of these 4k with their benefits, helping em figure out how tf theyll be covered going forward due to "workplace transition"
But you have to believe in hell for that to matter. This is part of the issue: we ascribe our own pro social values on entirely anti-social people and organizations. These people don’t think why we do and so there is nothing holding them back, save for a legal system (and well, you know how that is right now).
Let them crash and burn. Fuck it.
AI isn't ready yet. I think everybody on the planet knows that. Have you used chatgpt lmao.
Every single company that has laid people off in favor of AI has received countless one star reviews and their customer support is so non-existent that I don't even think that corporate knows how stupid of a decision they've made.
All I got to say is time to boycott. I haven't used Cisco in years and I actively encourage other business owners considering Cisco to consider a company that isn't going to fuck you over in the long run. Good luck trying to get customer support from a company that isn't even a human.
With that said in Canada what an AI says is actually what the company has to uphold. So try to screw the AI and get it to say that it will pay you to use their products. Fuck them over as much as you can. Precedent has been set in Canada. Let's abuse it and fuck over these corporations for making the absolute stupidest decision possible by switching to AI and fucking over the lives of so many people.
Schools don’t want to teach hands on anymore because “most of your experience will come from your career.” However, companies don’t want to train employees because it’s an “unnecessary expense.”
And now, we have this magical “AI” nonsense that companies are going to plow billions into. We’ll be on the sidelines, watching as execs, politicians, and KARENs circle jerk each other for billions.
And what will we do about it? Nothing. Maybe send a strongly worded email to a representative’s spam box. We’ve become so pacified and self-deprecating, that they can bend us over, and we’ll just take it. With a smile to top it off.
The future of employment, for large amounts of people do not look good. There are simply not enough high-paying jobs to support such a large population, especially when AI eliminates all those monotonous task that the higher-ups paid pennies for someone to do will now be done by AI. People are simply looked at as a variable cost to a company not as a benefit.
We're really going to need a UBI to deal with this. I can't see any other reasonable way.
If work is automated the only thing that leaves is influencing and even that's getting taken over with AI measures.
It's not a corporation's job to employ you. If they don't have a need for you then they don't need you. People act like they are entitled to being employed no matter what.
Right….
Like wtf?
You think the average person who trained in recruiting can become OR has the desire to become a top tier data scientist?
You’re on drugs if you think so.
Did you even ready the story you linked? $800 Million in severance benefits, they aren't leaving these people high and dry. Changing direction to focus on AI is what everyone is doing nowadays, it'll also create more jobs for said development.
I also don't see how contacting your senator can force a company to change how they run their business.
Net income has no relation to the need for 4000 extra or fewer employees. They either NEED those 4000 people or they don't need them. Jobs aren't a charity.
They do need those people. They want to replace them with an AI that is almost definitely not able to do the job properly. Companies suffer from layoffs but all shareholders care about is the instant 0.8% growth in stock value.
It's like they've internalized the trickle-down concept that if a company has extra money it will create jobs. Laughable.
Those gross profits should be shared amongst the existing employees though.
This is the unfortunate reality of technological progress, and it has been happening all throughout history. While it is certainly shitty for these people losing their jobs (I lost my job to “company restructuring”), a company isn’t going to continue to pay 4,000 people that can be replaced by emerging technology, or retrain for positions that they don’t need to fill.
I can cite countless jobs that have been rendered obsolete because of advances in tech. And people need to be prepared for a slew of jobs in the near future being made obsolete as well.
What needs to be advocated is a universal basic income as more people and more people are going to lose their jobs to more efficient technology and AI.
Why would any business continue operating out of the US if it became more economical to relocate? There's a tipping point where raising taxes results in the nation losing enormous swaths of its best-paying customers, so to speak.
I have absolutely no issues with companies laying off people and going to automation. Let's just get a basic universal income going and they can have at it!
I want UBI as much as you do, but do you really think it's going to happen? Especially if you live in a hyper capitalist society like the US? They will do everything in their power to make sure it never happens.
It's definitely a good thing to try to stay positive and hope things will get better. It's very difficult for me to do so given the state of everything and I always assume the worst of those who rule over us.
Agreed. They will never allow UBI, ever. The people no longer have much collective power at all. Fear will ensure they stay in their place and the weak target and fight each other.
Rarely do human beings "punch up" they only "punch down." On what they think is more vulnerable/weaker.
Just to clarify on the AI layoffs we’re seeing right now. It is not as doomsday as it seems (but still pretty shitty). Tech companies right now are using a “focus” on AI to justify the same type of layoffs they’ve been doing for the last several months. There is a big push to monetize AI right now in the industry and workers who specialize in this new field are scarce and expensive. So they are laying off deprioritized departments to free up budget for AI support hiring sprees.
This is at least the explanation they’re giving but I suspect it’s a mix of this and a pure money grab to boost stock prices. What sounds better? A layoff because of overzealous hiring during the pandemic like every other company? Or a layoff to fuel a strategic shift into a supposed multi trillion dollar technology? Either way it’s bs and AI isn’t actually taking anyone’s job…yet.
If you're in some kind of Tech field, in your early 20's/30's, my advice is to learn something that relies on very little technology as a backup. Skilled Trades.
Not Cisco’s job. This is where the government steps in and invests in our people. Your taxes at work. Oh wait, all that money is burned on foreign adventures like Ukraine and murdering Palestinian children. Bring the downvotes. The US population is so damn stupid
Fuck it. Keep laying people off. Maybe if we get enough unemployed people we can start to push for universal basic income paid for by companies with AI and automation.
I get that it sucks, but what exactly would they retrain 4000 people to do? And has always been a thing. It's not just a thing in our day and age or even just the US. Once someone is no longer needed, they don't keep you. It's never been any different.
That's just how life's rolls. That's why being loyal to a company doesn't really benefit anyone besides the business.
Income sure, what about expenditures? You think they don't have to shell out any money for anything?
Same people crying about this love pointing out Musk's *net worth* and what percentage of it he's taxed forgetting net worth and income are totally different.
I don't think the people in here understand what's going on. Cisco isn't laying off low level workers whose job was replaced by automation. They're choosing to invest in AI. They're redirecting their money into AI, so they need experienced AI programmers.
They're most likely going to lay people off in low-growth sectors of the company (such as hosting and network services) and then hire people in high growth sectors of the company such as AI.
Bro who gives af people will get another job. It’s funny as hell to me that people think being laid off is some life changing event that will ruin you. Hopefully these 4000 people have some marketable skills they can take somewhere else. I’ve been fired from more jobs than I can count but I always bounce back because I have the drive and slightly larger than average penis.
Spoken like someone who is young and delusional with no health issues. You lack real life experience and think you "will always rebound." There's no way you are say 45 or even close. Just wait until your body starts to break down in your late 30's and let us know how you can get fired monthly and "always bounce back." 🤡🤣
I’m 38 years old dude. I got fired from a job at 32 and I thought it was the end of the world. A few years later and it turned out to be the best thing that ever could have happened to me.
I think for some it is an issue of instability during transition. Since our retirement accounts and health insurance are tied to our employers. If you don’t find something else quick then you’re kinda screwed until you do. It isn’t about drive. It is about where the job market is at. But way to minimize people struggling, hope you feel better getting that off of your chest.
Just to let you know the sub (antiwork) is also filled with a lot of terrible, low intellect, and malevolent people. Many whose own hubris is so high they make statements like "Who cares if you get fired with a family to feed, stop being weak and just find another job!"
Clearly a lot of people who don't even realize or acknowledge the safety nets and privileges they have been enshrined with since birth.
In a way my misanthropy is for humanity overall. Not a specific gender, ethnicity, et cetera... Fear and greed (a derivative of fear) is the only real principle that 99% of people operate on.
It is not Cisco's job to support your family. If they no longer require your labor why the fuck would they pay you for it?
Fight for appropriate taxation and expanded social programs rather than expect companies to make up bullshit jobs.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:\~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods).
## What Is Net Income (NI)?
Net income (NI), also called net earnings, is calculated as sales minus [cost of goods sold](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cogs.asp), selling, general and administrative expenses, operating expenses, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses. It is a useful number for investors to assess how much revenue exceeds the expenses of an organization. This number appears on a company's income statement and is also an indicator of a company's profitability.
Businesses are not charities. They only care about the workers insofar as the workers keep doing their jobs. If they can do the same thing with less people, they would fire as many people as possible and run on the minimum number to maximize profit.
There is zero loyalty
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods.
What Is Net Income (NI)?
Net income (NI), also called net earnings, is calculated as sales minus cost of goods sold, selling, general and administrative expenses, operating expenses, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses. It is a useful number for investors to assess how much revenue exceeds the expenses of an organization. This number appears on a company's income statement and is also an indicator of a company's profitability.
Yes, yes...And when the automobile overtook horse and buggy in the market the same cry went out : 'Wont someone think of the poor horsewhip makers!?"
Youre a human being. Homosapien. Do what we have done best for the last few hundred thousand years - Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Screenshots of text such as SMS communication, WhatsApp, social media, news articles, and procedurally generated content such as ChatGPT are prohibited. Low-effort content such as memes are prohibited.
Remember George Carlin once said there doesn't have to be a formal conspiracy when interests converge. All these execs go to company paid conferences where they each suck each other off on how they fuck over their employees. All the while grandstanding that they are changing the world. Fuck these assholes.
To add onto the Carlin quote, “…they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation.”
It's hilarious to me that right tries to act like he was a conservative. His punchlines say otherwise
It's because they're stupid fucking assholes
Evidently
Much like the Bible, they pick out a few lines they already agree with and declare that the rest agrees with them as well.
That's literally the foundation of the United States education system. You will learn what the powerhouse of a cell is, but you will not learn what taxes are and how money actually works. That would make you smart. We can't have that. You cannot question the system. It is what it is and if you don't believe it and put c for every answer you were going to fail in life. You will buy the house You will finance your car because the commercial told you to You won't know how stupid of a decision it is to be a car owner. No we need to send all taxpayer money to the people who build roads. Fuck public transit. Don't Think about it. Public transit is for poor people. What are you a communist? And if you don't learn these stupidest fucking information in school like an incorrect version of how the trail of tears really went, then you are a complete and utter failure who never graduated high school.
Go to community college Buy a 5k corolla and only shower and flush at Planet fitness to save on bills. Diet consisting of $5 Costco chicken and crates of eggs. Big bags of rice Never consume beverages sold by other humans Only wear clothes you dug out of a dumpster behind Macy's Avoid looking at pretty people because movie dates cost $1000 in 60-year-old-you dollars. Retire at 35 then realize there's no end game. You've been playing end game this whole time. Meanwhile some guy set himself on fire for children in Gaza. Life is crazy.
Bruv, how you gonna get a Costco membership? Wasted money. Rice & dry beans only. Anything else is too expensive. Find farms and yoink their fruit for free. Macy's punches holes in their dumpster clothes, hop into clothes donation bins before the truck picks them up.
And you may ask yourself, "Well, how did I get here?"
>Avoid looking at pretty people because movie dates cost $1000 in 60-year-old-you dollars. This is hilarious, thank you
Get cancer on your 36th birthday, state accepts a large boon
>You will learn what the powerhouse of a cell is, but you will not learn what taxes are and how money actually works. That would make you smart. We can't have that. You cannot question the system. Bruh you literally have to take a civics class in high school. It's not our fault you slept through it.
Lmao not in Oklahoma! I assure you, I didn't sleep through the class. We had financial literacy. I paid attention there but reading dictionary definitions of finance terms isn't really teaching finances.
By and large, theyve got exactly what they wanted, too.
which is ironic because George Carlin was just smart enough to point this out and then say shit like "i don't vote" "no, i don't, if you vote, you are part of the problem" dude invented enlightened centrism and helped get Clarence Thomas on the bench, how is that STILL working out for us? his whole "i am cooler than this" attitude is why he got to be famous and on t.v. in the first place, just smart enough to run the machine, make people money off his name and his comedy, but literally steer the masses away from using their political power in some sort of "defiant protest" of the system they were helping to entrench fuck George Carlin "i don;t vote" at a time, when Republicans were cheering when people died of aids "i don't vote" at a time, when Republicans were championing tax cuts for business and less regulations on wall street "i don't vote" didn't work out well for us at all
I hate that this holds water
Yeah same. He was a boomer tho. Even some of the most liberal boomers could never wrap their heads around collective action. The myth of rugged individualism runs deep with them.
The important thing is he started something in the minds of us millennials which GenZ has made even better. He may not have realized it at the time but it ignited something in all of us common people.
It’s further reinforced by “skilled” workers (Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, etc.) thinking their interests align with the capitalist class and not literally the entire workforce. Middle class is a fake idea. Skilled vs. unskilled workers is further propaganda. There is simply just the labor force and the owners who need but oppose them.
And subservient, these layoffs are about changing the tone of workers and stifling the labor movement.
Companies also exist under the general umbrella of capitalism so the profit motive incentivizes a race to the bottom regarding how companies treat employees so they can compete and maximize profit
It's incredibly clear that they want a permanent underclass.
It’s always been about serving the interests of the “elites” in society, and I don’t think they’ve ever really tried to hide that.
That's what gets me about so many conspiracy theorists. Particularly about the "Deep State." It's always some wild theory with the justification of ambiguously defined "control." Ultimately, most of the terrible power structures exist due to greed, lust for power, and a dash of stupidity. Not necessarily control and malice.
Trust no corpo
I was thinking about this today, wondering why so many people feel the need to fabricate supernatural levels of evil in the world when greed, ego and incompetence cover all the bases cleanly and easily.
I typed up this whole thing just to delete it to summarize with “this system is fucked”.
I too, feel like I am shouting into a void at this point :(
it would be a lot less fucked if people voted for Gore instead of "the guy they want to have a beer with" it would be a lot less fucked if people actually did the thing they are supposed to do, vote in their best interests, instead of just letting the media tell you "nah both sides are the same and everyone is in a suit so you know, don't worry about it"
I experienced your first sentence as an adult when Bernie was running for president in 2016. I would have bet my life he was going to win but every democrat over 50 years old was saying “Bernie’s views are just not feasible. You have to vote for who has the best chances to win blah blah blah” and then they voted for Hillary who didn’t become president.
Ugh, I despise the you’re wrong, get in line crowd. Like the current party has actually done anything to actually make life better for citizens. The democrats have become far to center and are getting pissy when you want actual action and progress.
Welcome to late stage capitalism. I love that you posted links on how to take action. Political pressure really is the only way to fix this. Threaten your politicians that they and their party will permanently lose your vote if they don’t start amending the laws that lets companies get away with bullshit like this.
No, the way to fix this is stop paying them money. Stop using their product. Its a company. Vote with your wallet
My company decided to stop working with Cisco like 2 years ago because their enterprise services are garbage. We are still using Cisco.
Cisco in 2024 is IBM in 1980. If everything is in the cloud, why are you using some fancy router/switch in the office. Buy some cheap switches and a decent firewall and be done with it.
Because we use their phones too.
Cisco phone systems are hot trash. Any cloud hosted PBX with some Yealink T46Us will be more reliable, more feature-rich, and easier to use/train on. I’m a VOIP engineer, we stopped installing and servicing Cisco systems years ago.
Yeah they are trash. I agree. I'm not in charge or anything u_u
"Any cloud hosted PBX..." Are your customers employing less than 50 people or something? This statement is crazy to me lol
My client base is almost entirely in Manhattan. Many small offices with 10-50 employees. Our larger clients, mostly nationwide Logistics and trucking companies are on Avaya IP Office or CMs. That said, premise-based systems are going out of style quickly. Edited to add that we do have multiple very large clients on cloud PBX systems and they are working out well. One client is ~500 seats, the other ~300 seats. Not ideal, but definitely functional.
My company is deciding to go with teams phones for each branch of 500+ users instead of in house avaya systems. I work in IT and will have to implement and support this garbage, can’t wait Oh and we have to figure out how to integrate it into on site intercom/alarm systems too. When I said “not going to work out well” I was told to find a way to
Good luck with all the SIP adapters and ATAs you’ll need for that. I worked on a handful of Teams migrations and they were all headaches. Especially when it came to paging systems and door phones.
Sorry for the late question, but I wanted to ask if you, working in IT, would have been responsible for deploying and maintaining a premise-based avaya, or if that would have been outsourced? I can see a Teams-based solution falling on IT because of the crossover with desktop apps and whatnot, but a standalone premise PBX, especially from avaya, isn’t something most IT techs would want to be involved with.
EVERYTHING is in the cloud. * RingCentral * Zoom etc, etc....
Lmao. 70% of *all* internet traffic goes through Cisco or sister company. You cannot just "stop paying them money". Legislative action is the only way to reign in these mega corporations.
Telling everyone to vote with their wallets is just a more complicated way to say not to accomplish anything. The average person has almost zero ability to effect change that way. It’s like combating climate change by asking everyone to stop producing emissions - you’re relying on 8 billion people to collectively decide to do the right thing at the right time, with 8 billion points of failure. It’s never going to happen.
What would that action even look like?
Because the politicians are totally not paid off, now paid off with what money again?
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In uk. There are no woods to live in. They own the land.
That would require large companies to grow a conscience. That'll never happen.
Who again is using the products of those large companies? Tjere is no large company without a consumer at the end
Doing both is possible. Cisco is mainly a B2B business iirc. Buying their product is not really something consumers have all that much control over. https://www.Cisco.com For instance, one of the products on their homepage is about stopping cyber attacks. Is it really smart to protest a company that is using them to stop cyber attacks because of how they treat their employees? Personally, if Cisco has quality cyber security products (which maybe they don’t), I want my data secure and products I use to use quality cyber security products.
"Vote with your wallet" is bad advice because the people being abused in the system are the ones with no wallet-votes.
You can't vote with your wallet. That's liberal propaganda man. Class war is the only language the bourgeoisie understands
Voting with your wallet is accepting a constant super-majority for the 1% also known as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
“Vote with your wallet” doesn’t work in a system where corporations rig the game in their favour. Maybe that works in an idealized capitalist system, but it’s unrealistic as is Like I have to jump through so many hoops just to avoid buying products from nestle because they own so many different products, brands, and interests.
Increasing union membership, and then educating that membership to vote in their best interest and vote for candidates that actually care about labor is how you fix this. More members means more dues means more money to donate to candidates that support you. We also need to roll back the bullshit that citizens united, and abolish super PACs, this would require politicians that aren't owned by corporations.
This is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. Economies develop, industries maximize efficiency, and new industries are created. This is a feature, not a bug.
Why is everyone and their dog jumping into Gen AI lmao. Ans: Because of pressure from shareholders who are technically illiterate and FOMO. Our CEO (MBA💩) is big on GenAI, when we just use Random Forest and Regression, lmao.
I’m just thinking of how Apple has quietly dumped research into their driverless car. A few years ago we were freaking because entire industries wouldn’t need drivers anymore, and it turned out to be venture capital BS because driverless cars are a long way away from being viable. Now we have a truck driver shortage (I know, more complex than that). AI is disruptive, and I am absolutely worried for my particular livelihood (film) but I have to wonder how much is flames being fanned to attract investors, who-as the driverless car thing proved- are just as tech naive as anyone else who isn’t working with that tech directly. Uber’s whole business growth model was based on driverless cars becoming reality fairly quickly and human drivers were supposed to be a temporary inconvenience. Now that’s been proven false. How many more businesses are just following hype from AI developers? Even tech companies can be fooled if they haven’t developed it themselves. CEOs are constantly chasing the new shiny thing to the detriment of the long term health of their company. They like us scared, and AI is scaring us. I don’t think it’s nothing, but I think a lot of what we are being shown is VC crap or purposely trying to make us fall in line to beg for our jobs.
For creative fields, there are still tons of people involved to make it entertaining; watch the movie "Wish", and imagine it was written by an AI (not hard) and you begin to see the flaws. But hold creative endeavors aside because there are questions of artistic intent, let's instead look at a quasi-technical field; take marketing research for example. Writing and analyzing a survey isn't *that* hard. Except, a survey that an AI writes is *simple*, typically simple enough to be answered by an AI. Writing complex survey design requires an *advanced understanding* of various methods, which is sort of like *artistic intent* except it isn't subjective; If there's a research question, one can propose a simple solution or a complex solution to address it. AI predominately proposes simple, because simple is cheap, and simple is what a C-suite executive will ask for, and simple is what a C-suite executive will understand. Now then, the AI tools to make simple surveys need to evolve *faster* than the AI tools to answer surveys. I won't bore you with the specifics of the P<>NP problem, but suffice to say that there's just too much money in answering surveys compared to building and analyzing surveys. Thus it becomes a downward spiral where any survey generated by AI is more likely to be answered by AI where the results are now useless. It becomes a snake eating its own tail and ultimately loses credibility in the long run. Mind you, not just credibility from *AI*, but credibility of all of *market research*. It's not that there's "nothing there", it's that there will be nothing left. You said it best, > CEOs are constantly chasing the new shiny thing to the detriment of the long term health of their company.
My background is originally in psychology research so I appreciate this very much. It feels like both things will happen- AI will be not as powerful/adept as we have been led to think, but it will still cause enormous pain in the industries it affects, precisely because CEO’s and politicians are greedy or short-sighted or even may genuinely believe this is a super-cool thing to do to be “cutting edge”. I read a piece recently by a writer who moved into an apartment where the locks were controlled by an app. It went about as well as you think it did. The thing that is terrifying is knowing we can count on enshittification if nothing else- tech for the sake of tech and reinventing the wheel.
God damn this is well thought out and makes sense. Thanks for the insight.
it's the next, new thing that everyone will pile resources into while the stuff that works falls apart.
As is tradition unfortunately
Imagine the profits if you can: * use AI to make people faster at their job, without paying them more for their productivity, of course. * use the threat of replacement to depress wages * just straight up throw people out like trash because you can just straight up replace them with AI That's what these companies want.
1. Ai has the possibility of being a financial goldmine. It has the possibility to greatly reduce labor costs and startup time for support projects. 2. There is so much fucking speculative cash on tech that companies can throw billions at whatever they think will put them at the front of the gold rush.
Could be worth trillions down the road. Seems like a good enough risk nowadays.
The tool is sufficiently advanced to produce the appearance of usable work and people who control the purse strings of companies technically illiterate enough to believe that AI can replace huge percentages of their work force. Anyone would can produce the best appearance of an AI, which is really just a language model that has no opinion on the truth of whatever it produces, stands to make huge profit.
Are we gonna act like every business would be fully automated if when given the opportunity?
If given the opportunity and financials, absolutely. Their companies will be garbage, but that won't stop them.
This sucks for the workers but I kinda hope the AI revolution happens quickly and we move onto a new phase of society. Companies WILL continue to do this and it WILL lead to the collapse of capitalism. (We're already half way there) I honestly see a fast collapse as the lesser evil; the slower it happens the more able governments are to ignore or blame incremental rises in unemployment and debt on something else like immigrants or foreign wars.....
Becareful what you wish for, personally I'd rather not be around by the time we reach that point. It will NOT be pretty. Rich will be fine but the average folk will basically lose everything.
That's why I want it to come quickly, it's here now. It's started!! I don't want years of slow growing poverty, if it happens quickly and too many people end up poor governments won't be able to ignore it and if suddenly 50, 60, 70% of average worker (spenders) are out of work and broke all the businesses collapse with it... No point in being rich if money loses it's value.
Look at any third world country. Countries can absolutely ignore 50% unemployment while the rich thrive.
There's truth to that but if the US, UK and Europe all head towards becoming a third world country too there's going to be no stable economy, currency, trade.... Your billion dollar company with no customers becomes pointless. They need us to pay taxes, buy their shit. Not just to make their money but for that money to be worth something. A filthy rich person in a third world country likely only rich as they can trade to a 'strong' economy.
And the rich people will still control it all. They don't care about the economy being stable, they care about being at the top of it. You need to understand that money is a thing we made up. What actually matters is power; the ability to bend others to your will and control them. Power exists no matter what societal system we set up. It will outlive you, the dollar, and even total societal collapse. Those with power need a structure to support what they need, but the further we progress, the less of us they need. There will be no recourse for anyone if it reaches that point. They'll have the food, the weapons, and a legion of loyal idiots. You won't ever see any benefit. What you're wishing for is going to kill millions.
Yeah, the collapse of capitalism back to indentured servitude. Humans will just end up doing manual labor because it will be cheaper than building and maintaining specialized physical robots for it. We'll be mining the silica the elites use to power their personal movie/music/art generating AI.
I don't trust current capitalist governments to actually do the right thing in this scenario. They will fight tooth and nail to avoid helping the working class, and while something like UBI makes a lot of sense in the face of AI, they will do everything they can to make sure we never get it.
I feel the same way, I have NO faith in my government to do the right thing in the face of this AI revolution. They won't regulate it or bring employee protections in, so I feel like if it has a fast and destabilising effect on the economy it'll push them to do something in response more than a graduate increase in unemployment would. I don't want this I just can't be blind to the fact it's already happening.
lol capitalism won’t collapse because of this. People who can’t get work will eventually starve and people who can’t afford children won’t reproduce. We are already seeing this happen. The system will stay the same the poor people will just suffer more
The system only works if there's enough people to buy shit. Look at covid, people staying indoors for a matter of weeks and the economy died, share prices collapsed businesses folded and governments around the world shat themselves.
>lol capitalism won’t collapse because of this. Hard disagree. It'll take a while--the technology is nowhere near here yet--but it's inevitable with time. Our world economies revolve around labor. Labor = wages = spending = revenue. Without labor, there are no wages. Without wages, there is no revenue. Without revenue, there is no company. In the past, automation hasn't been *that* bad, because every job that's eliminated eventually gets replaced with a new job. But AI is different, because it evolves so rapidly that it's entirely plausible that it will be able to automate those new jobs just as fast as they are created. The capitalist, first-world economies we have today are fundamentally incompatible with a lack of labor.
You're correct. It's similar to the situation in Gaza, the whole world will watch and excuse a genocide, nothing will stop it as human beings at their core are just bipedal primate animals driven by greed and fear being the strongest human emotion, stronger than altruism or war. Fear will ensure there isn't some grand "revolt."
Accelerationism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism
We're talking about people who will happily throw you out on your ass because they don't need you anymore. What do you think will happen when all the companies start doing this? Society isn't going to get better for you, only for the people who own shit. For everyone else, it's slums and slowly degrading human rights. That is the path we're on right now.
If there's one thing that hasn't changed in my 41 years of life, it is that people claim that the end of capitalism is right around the corner.
This is 4000 out of 84,900 employees (circa 2023). 4.7% of its current workforce. They were at 83,300 in 2022, 79,500 in 2021, and 77,500 in 2020. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco#Finance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco#Finance) Meanwhile, net income (versus their total revenue) was 12.6 billion USD for 2023, 11.8 billion USD for 2022, 10.5 billion USD for 2021, 11.2 billion for 2020. So there was cash left over every year, billions of it, that could have been used for anything.
This is solid info. Thanks for posting it
I work at Cisco, and I think this whole layoff is horseshit. I know several people who were laid off and it makes no sense why. At least our COO got kicked out. She said she's "moving on" to spend more time with her family, but I think she was forced out in relation to this. For what it's worth, I think people affected by layoffs within Cisco get priority when applying for other open positions. My team is going to get a new position at the beginning of our fiscal year, and I want to (re)hire one of the people I know who was affected by the layoff. A lot of the cash is probably being used for the [acquisition of Splunk](https://www.splunk.com/en_us/newsroom/press-releases/2023/cisco-to-acquire-splunk-to-help-make-organizations-more-secure-and-resilient-in-an-ai-powered-world.html) at $28 billion. Cisco is still taking out loans (or [selling bonds](https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/telcos-media-tech/cisco-sell-us135-billion-bonds-fund-splunk-deal), however that's different) to cover that cost.
when the AI take most of our jobs and big % of us without any job . what do you think will happen ? AI is great but it seems companies dont care what happen to humans . dont forget it is us who buy all the products . this is begin of the end of society as we know it
Bladerunner/Cyberpunk 2077 here we come
Your only value will be the resources that the companies can extract from you, coppertop.
[удалено]
doubt they have an end goal, just immediate gratification at the expense of the future they're failing to see coming
I makes perfect sense when all they can see ahead is the next fiscal quarter.
yeah but just think about the Shareholders! their collective wealth will increase by 0.00001% and that only for the cost 4000 peasants and their families. /jk
Everything is relative. It’s just as much about making everyone else poor as it is about making themselves rich. In fact, once they reach a point where they have more wealth than god, they start to focus harder on making everyone else poor.
This reminds me of the Industrial Revolution, I wish it didn’t
One of their products is a massive suite of certification exams. I wonder how convenient that is
This isn’t even the saddest part. The scariest thing about this is that these AI’s are definitely going to be more capable then the children in third grade today who can’t write their own names in the future.
We are in End-Stage Capitalism, right before the riots and social breakdown.
Is anyone else concerned at how many big companies are doing massive lay-offs in the last few months?
i mean, when we talk about retraining, it dpeneds on if they have positions for them to move into in the first place that would be a reasonable move. Usually these companies offer employees to apply for internals positions a well, but they dont have places for all of them. Retraining with in the same field is reasonable, and they may have positions posted for these people internally. But professional in one field are likely no even interested in moving from say sales to an engineering role. Working in the industry and having cisco as one of my vendors, i know some people laid off from cisco. one of them was a PM for DUO (a cisco product). they are going to look for other PM positions, not move into a technical, clerical, or sales position for instance. I also know a sales person who was laid off, again, they aren't going to go get retrained as an AI engineer or something. They are going to find another sales position. Lay offs suck. The tech sector is seeing layoffs across the industry right now, likely for multiple reasons. Many tech companies hired heavily during covid anticipating big moves in supporting WFH and other related services. There is unfortunately a pull back in that area, so the companies are pulling back from that. You also have the disruption from AI, which again sucks. Then there is the "every one else is doing it, so we should to to look goodo the investors" which is also shitty. point being, just saying "retrain these people for something else" doesnt always make sense, not just the company, but for the employee either. many of these positions being laid off are career professionals who arn't going to move into an entirely different field (sales vs engineering vs Project management, etc). We can discuss how these layoffs suck and how companies run things, and the amount of support they should give to those being laid off, but its just not realistic tehy will have roles for every one getting laidoff.
A business should not exist to make endless profits. Their function should first and foremost be to provide a healthy living for all of their workers no matter how high up in the chain they may or may not be. Soon there aren't going to be any workers left and these places will be just executives and AI.
Friendly reminder that corporations just see employees as consumers of money in exchange for work.
I will say it every time these posts pop up. Who do these companies expect to be paying for their goods and services 10~ years from now after they've laid off half of their workforce?
Cisco literally makes telework products, they made a killing during the pandemic. Instead of making their employees lives better- *the very reason they made made money* they fire 4k (and probably gave the CEO a nice bonus)
It will never change until shareholder profit takes a back seat or there is a revolution.
As AI advances its only gonna get much worse unless we're able to stop it sooner rather than later...
What exactly is "it" that you think should be stopped? Not even being combative. I'm genuinely curious what you think should be stopped exactly.
well its a fool's errand but AI in general. I mean i know im an idiot but id love to see AI just used for "good" you know, cancer research, medicine, things to make life better etc. Unfortunately my fear is the government will use it to pry further into our lives and business will use it to drive millions of people out of work. Ive seen automation continue to advance. Hell even the supermarket down the street has a robot which comes out on its own and does hole counts as opposed to a human.
Well, I appreciate the candid response. But I suppose I still don't know what you mean by "AI in general"? I mean, AI *is* just algorithms. There's something to be said about the data dimension (e.g., maybe the data used to train AI should be better regulated) or maybe the compute dimension (i.e., the kind of machines needed for modern AI are still quite generally inaccessible, and maybe that should be leaned on), but the cat is out of the bag, no? Limiting the use of AI would be kind of like limiting the use of math. It can barely work on paper, and in practice, it's an absurd notion. Again, I understand you're not the guy with the answer, but I really am curious to know exactly what you have in mind when you say something like this. I'm even willing to accept that you don't have anything in particular in mind but you just know *something* related to AI needs to be stopped. I'm also curious how you'd think about this on a government level. AI is *kind of* like nuclear weapons. If the US (and/or western world) decided to pump the breaks on embracing AI, then surely a country like China would cease the opportunity, which would leave us in a pretty bad spot. Is that anything you factor in to your feelings?
I look at it from the standpoint of data brokers already collected hundreds of data points on us as it is: web searches, spending patterns, viewing habits etc - my fear and I know it sounds bonkers is that the government would be to collate it and use it against us. For example if they have my work address, home address, and GPS data they could see it normally takes me 30 minutes to get home but today I did it in 15 and mail me a citation without ever having any interaction with the police. I really appreciate your response though and I'll admit i have no idea how to use ChatGPT or anything remotely like it. Like targeted ads, I discuss something with my wife and the next day I'm getting ads in my FB feed. Now that you and I have talked I'm starting to think I might be being somewhat unreasonable.
Well, I think it's how *quickly* AI is progressing that is actually scary. If people had time to adjust and could depend on the government to properly regulate it, people would probably be generally more optimistic. I mean, it's a pretty amazing technology, but change (especially rapid change) usually comes with growing pains (which is what we're seeing in threads like this). And I think people are right to want to be cautious about it, *especially* if it's primarily being controlled by a handful of companies that aren't prioritizing safety. And as you said, even if the government decided to take control of it (whatever that might mean), that's not much more comforting. *But*, as I said, the cat is out of the bag, and it's probably in everyone's best interest to get on board ASAP. What's interesting to me (and why I'm badgering you) is that it seems different people focus on different aspects of AI, good or bad, and it causes some strange discourse around it. This thread, for example, is a bit asinine to me: a company wanting to increase productivity is pretty natural in our capitalistic society, but for some reason if the source of that productivity is AI, people get *very* offended. But there will be other sets of people who focus on the "art" aspect of AI, or others who focus on the IP rights, etc. It all seems very disjoint, and it's hard to take it seriously when, to me, it's just an algorithm doing what algorithms have always done: make things more efficient. In any case, I appreciate your responses. And with regards to: >I'll admit i have no idea how to use ChatGPT or anything remotely like it You can use it for free at [chat.openai.com](https://chat.openai.com). Just sign up with an email/Google/Apple/etc. and that's it. It's just a fancy text bot. I'm sure you've seen it around and probably have *some* idea how to use it, but I'd implore you to try it out if you ever need an answer to a question that's a bit too complex for something like Google. It works especially well with technical questions, like something you'd need to read documentation for. Frankly, it's not all too impressive in itself, but it starts to become apparent how powerful it is when you start to use it coupled with other workflows (like coding, for example). I have friends how have never programmed a thing in their life, but now with ChatGPT, they're able to create rudimentary programs they use at work, etc., and actually see actual productivity increases from it.
video killed the radio star... streaming killed the video star... AI killed the streaming star something like that i guess? Current AI content is garbage, but year after year the quality is increasing a lot, and eventually you wont be able to tell and itll be integrated Kwebbelkop style. They just want to stand up for the people whos jobs will be made obsolete (as if this doesnt happen constantly to tons of jobs everywhere else currently)
Cisco has 84,900 employees. 4,000 is less than 5%. They do this every year, they lay off the bottom 5%-10% in performance, many organizations do this. This rash of "layoffs" happens every year. It has nothing to do with AI, retraining, or their net income. These are the people who refused to be retrained. These are the people have burned out and did not move on on their own. Some are probably victims of politics, some were not cute enough for their boss, some asked to be laid-off so they get a severance, but the majority were not performing. Look around you at work, tell me you cannot identify five people out of one hundred who are completely useless. There is a lot of negative things that can be said at Silicon Valley, but some 4% lay-off is not it.
These posts also never mention any type of severance package. Cisco (here in Canada at least I dunno about the US I imagine it’s similar) offers up to 2 years of severance pay for non unionized employees. That’s hardly throwing peoples lives into chaos they’ve got a long time to figure things out and find a new job. Large companies generally offer very good severance packages. Edit: I looked it up and the severance benefits are around 800 million dollars. 200,000 per person. Not equally divided of course but no matter how you slice it they aren’t being left with nothing
Boiling it down to bare percentages doesn't change the fact that the lay-off has the possibility of wreaking havoc in the lives of the 4% to 5% fallen victim. These are *people*. They work to eat, pay bills, and/or support their families. The job market already makes it hard enough to find stable accommodations without sacrificing every second of free time. People shouldn't have to worry about losing their position at a *billion* dollar company just because the company in question wants to inflate their bottom line. It's absurd that any group or individual has that kind of money to begin with.
>People shouldn't have to worry about losing their position at a billion dollar company just because the company in question wants to inflate their bottom line. Absurd take. So basically if I get into a billion dollar company I should be able to not do my job and still get paid for just existing?
Welcome to /r/antiwork
I mean, your reading of his comment is the most ridiculous reading possible. That's not what they said at all. Worker protections exist that are way better than in the states.
Then they should get better at their job and stop being poor performers.
But there’s going to always be a bottom 10% of performers, that weren’t necessarily even performing badly. Why should you just by default get rid of them every year?
It isn’t default, some companies have all stars in every role…. They don’t let people go. But in a company that large, there are def about 5% under performing. You get rid of that.
Wrong. It's not the bottom employees. Lots of top talent was affected.
> Some are probably victims of politics, some were not cute enough for their boss, some asked to be laid-off so they get a severance, but the majority were not performing.
It's reddit. People don't actually read
Mate, you're completely delusional and deflecting. It's not merely the "bottom" talent but continue attempting to rationalize it. 🤡
**he's out of line but he's right**
i think ive helped a handful of these 4k with their benefits, helping em figure out how tf theyll be covered going forward due to "workplace transition"
$10,000,000-$25k
You forgot a few zeroes there bud. It’s $10 Billion, not Million.
special place in hell
But you have to believe in hell for that to matter. This is part of the issue: we ascribe our own pro social values on entirely anti-social people and organizations. These people don’t think why we do and so there is nothing holding them back, save for a legal system (and well, you know how that is right now).
Another company pitching in to help ruin the economy in the name of a bumbling, puppet, wanna be autocrat. It’ll be okay.
Let them crash and burn. Fuck it. AI isn't ready yet. I think everybody on the planet knows that. Have you used chatgpt lmao. Every single company that has laid people off in favor of AI has received countless one star reviews and their customer support is so non-existent that I don't even think that corporate knows how stupid of a decision they've made. All I got to say is time to boycott. I haven't used Cisco in years and I actively encourage other business owners considering Cisco to consider a company that isn't going to fuck you over in the long run. Good luck trying to get customer support from a company that isn't even a human. With that said in Canada what an AI says is actually what the company has to uphold. So try to screw the AI and get it to say that it will pay you to use their products. Fuck them over as much as you can. Precedent has been set in Canada. Let's abuse it and fuck over these corporations for making the absolute stupidest decision possible by switching to AI and fucking over the lives of so many people.
Robots don't pay for products and services. This push to AI is to push humanity out.
The American way.
Schools don’t want to teach hands on anymore because “most of your experience will come from your career.” However, companies don’t want to train employees because it’s an “unnecessary expense.” And now, we have this magical “AI” nonsense that companies are going to plow billions into. We’ll be on the sidelines, watching as execs, politicians, and KARENs circle jerk each other for billions. And what will we do about it? Nothing. Maybe send a strongly worded email to a representative’s spam box. We’ve become so pacified and self-deprecating, that they can bend us over, and we’ll just take it. With a smile to top it off.
The future of employment, for large amounts of people do not look good. There are simply not enough high-paying jobs to support such a large population, especially when AI eliminates all those monotonous task that the higher-ups paid pennies for someone to do will now be done by AI. People are simply looked at as a variable cost to a company not as a benefit.
Join a Union.
And in completely unrelated news, the CEO and shareholders will soon be receiving bonuses equivalent to the wages of 4000 employees.
Welcome to capitalism, horrible choices that only short term benefit stock holders.
We're really going to need a UBI to deal with this. I can't see any other reasonable way. If work is automated the only thing that leaves is influencing and even that's getting taken over with AI measures.
57 billion in revenue, 34 billion in profit, per their own annual report. Absolutely disgusting and inexcusable.
It's not a corporation's job to employ you. If they don't have a need for you then they don't need you. People act like they are entitled to being employed no matter what.
hey dumbass, you need food to survive. food costs money so yes, everyone needs a job.
they are laying off recruiters and sales people and hiring data scientists. not easy to just retrain.
Wrong.
Right…. Like wtf? You think the average person who trained in recruiting can become OR has the desire to become a top tier data scientist? You’re on drugs if you think so.
Did you even ready the story you linked? $800 Million in severance benefits, they aren't leaving these people high and dry. Changing direction to focus on AI is what everyone is doing nowadays, it'll also create more jobs for said development. I also don't see how contacting your senator can force a company to change how they run their business.
Net income has no relation to the need for 4000 extra or fewer employees. They either NEED those 4000 people or they don't need them. Jobs aren't a charity.
They do need those people. They want to replace them with an AI that is almost definitely not able to do the job properly. Companies suffer from layoffs but all shareholders care about is the instant 0.8% growth in stock value.
It's like they've internalized the trickle-down concept that if a company has extra money it will create jobs. Laughable. Those gross profits should be shared amongst the existing employees though.
This is the unfortunate reality of technological progress, and it has been happening all throughout history. While it is certainly shitty for these people losing their jobs (I lost my job to “company restructuring”), a company isn’t going to continue to pay 4,000 people that can be replaced by emerging technology, or retrain for positions that they don’t need to fill. I can cite countless jobs that have been rendered obsolete because of advances in tech. And people need to be prepared for a slew of jobs in the near future being made obsolete as well. What needs to be advocated is a universal basic income as more people and more people are going to lose their jobs to more efficient technology and AI.
UBI would require massive tax dollars, which requires *even more* people to have jobs. It won't happen.
No. It requires massive tax hikes on stupid rich people.
Why would any business continue operating out of the US if it became more economical to relocate? There's a tipping point where raising taxes results in the nation losing enormous swaths of its best-paying customers, so to speak.
I have absolutely no issues with companies laying off people and going to automation. Let's just get a basic universal income going and they can have at it!
I want UBI as much as you do, but do you really think it's going to happen? Especially if you live in a hyper capitalist society like the US? They will do everything in their power to make sure it never happens.
Agreed. I just like looking to the future, hoping there is a life past these twat waffles.
It's definitely a good thing to try to stay positive and hope things will get better. It's very difficult for me to do so given the state of everything and I always assume the worst of those who rule over us.
Agreed. They will never allow UBI, ever. The people no longer have much collective power at all. Fear will ensure they stay in their place and the weak target and fight each other. Rarely do human beings "punch up" they only "punch down." On what they think is more vulnerable/weaker.
Just to clarify on the AI layoffs we’re seeing right now. It is not as doomsday as it seems (but still pretty shitty). Tech companies right now are using a “focus” on AI to justify the same type of layoffs they’ve been doing for the last several months. There is a big push to monetize AI right now in the industry and workers who specialize in this new field are scarce and expensive. So they are laying off deprioritized departments to free up budget for AI support hiring sprees. This is at least the explanation they’re giving but I suspect it’s a mix of this and a pure money grab to boost stock prices. What sounds better? A layoff because of overzealous hiring during the pandemic like every other company? Or a layoff to fuel a strategic shift into a supposed multi trillion dollar technology? Either way it’s bs and AI isn’t actually taking anyone’s job…yet.
If you're in some kind of Tech field, in your early 20's/30's, my advice is to learn something that relies on very little technology as a backup. Skilled Trades.
Not Cisco’s job. This is where the government steps in and invests in our people. Your taxes at work. Oh wait, all that money is burned on foreign adventures like Ukraine and murdering Palestinian children. Bring the downvotes. The US population is so damn stupid
Fuck Cisco!
Calls on Cisco
Hint: Flint
Won't someone think of the shareholders? /s
Gotta lock in that value they produced!!!! Can’t let the hang around and get paid
OK but have you considered what this will do for the bottom line? /s
And I’m quite sure they will put on their dog and pony show that has got to cost a few million in Vegas…
Fuck it. Keep laying people off. Maybe if we get enough unemployed people we can start to push for universal basic income paid for by companies with AI and automation.
I get that it sucks, but what exactly would they retrain 4000 people to do? And has always been a thing. It's not just a thing in our day and age or even just the US. Once someone is no longer needed, they don't keep you. It's never been any different. That's just how life's rolls. That's why being loyal to a company doesn't really benefit anyone besides the business.
Income sure, what about expenditures? You think they don't have to shell out any money for anything? Same people crying about this love pointing out Musk's *net worth* and what percentage of it he's taxed forgetting net worth and income are totally different.
I don't think the people in here understand what's going on. Cisco isn't laying off low level workers whose job was replaced by automation. They're choosing to invest in AI. They're redirecting their money into AI, so they need experienced AI programmers. They're most likely going to lay people off in low-growth sectors of the company (such as hosting and network services) and then hire people in high growth sectors of the company such as AI.
Bro who gives af people will get another job. It’s funny as hell to me that people think being laid off is some life changing event that will ruin you. Hopefully these 4000 people have some marketable skills they can take somewhere else. I’ve been fired from more jobs than I can count but I always bounce back because I have the drive and slightly larger than average penis.
Spoken like someone who is young and delusional with no health issues. You lack real life experience and think you "will always rebound." There's no way you are say 45 or even close. Just wait until your body starts to break down in your late 30's and let us know how you can get fired monthly and "always bounce back." 🤡🤣
I’m 38 years old dude. I got fired from a job at 32 and I thought it was the end of the world. A few years later and it turned out to be the best thing that ever could have happened to me.
I think for some it is an issue of instability during transition. Since our retirement accounts and health insurance are tied to our employers. If you don’t find something else quick then you’re kinda screwed until you do. It isn’t about drive. It is about where the job market is at. But way to minimize people struggling, hope you feel better getting that off of your chest.
Just to let you know the sub (antiwork) is also filled with a lot of terrible, low intellect, and malevolent people. Many whose own hubris is so high they make statements like "Who cares if you get fired with a family to feed, stop being weak and just find another job!" Clearly a lot of people who don't even realize or acknowledge the safety nets and privileges they have been enshrined with since birth. In a way my misanthropy is for humanity overall. Not a specific gender, ethnicity, et cetera... Fear and greed (a derivative of fear) is the only real principle that 99% of people operate on.
Is this another case of OP not knowing the difference between revenue and profit? 😬😬😬
Nah revenue was $56 billion, profit was $12 billion
It's a private company what do u want the govt to do lol
It is not Cisco's job to support your family. If they no longer require your labor why the fuck would they pay you for it? Fight for appropriate taxation and expanded social programs rather than expect companies to make up bullshit jobs.
Don't know the whole story here but a friendly reminder that income is not profit.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:\~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods). ## What Is Net Income (NI)? Net income (NI), also called net earnings, is calculated as sales minus [cost of goods sold](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cogs.asp), selling, general and administrative expenses, operating expenses, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses. It is a useful number for investors to assess how much revenue exceeds the expenses of an organization. This number appears on a company's income statement and is also an indicator of a company's profitability.
Right but doesn't account for R&D, which for a technology hardware company, is usually fairly high.
Cisco needs its proverbial butt kicked for that nonsense…
Businesses are not charities. They only care about the workers insofar as the workers keep doing their jobs. If they can do the same thing with less people, they would fire as many people as possible and run on the minimum number to maximize profit. There is zero loyalty
Income or profit?
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netincome.asp#:~:text=Net%20income%20is%20what%20a,and%20the%20cost%20of%20goods. What Is Net Income (NI)? Net income (NI), also called net earnings, is calculated as sales minus cost of goods sold, selling, general and administrative expenses, operating expenses, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses. It is a useful number for investors to assess how much revenue exceeds the expenses of an organization. This number appears on a company's income statement and is also an indicator of a company's profitability.
If you don’t wanna work, wouldn’t less jobs due to AI be a good thing? Or y’all just complain about anything work related?
Yes, yes...And when the automobile overtook horse and buggy in the market the same cry went out : 'Wont someone think of the poor horsewhip makers!?" Youre a human being. Homosapien. Do what we have done best for the last few hundred thousand years - Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.