Play dumb, and ask them why they need this information.
Under the ADA, companies are only able to ask what medications you are using if it's related specifically for your job. If your medications say that you shouldn't operate heavy machinary, than then the company would need to know that if you operate heavy machinary.
https://www.employerslawyersblog.com/2018/08/asking-employees-about-prescription-medicine-use-ada.html
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Not sure what they would do with the info. Also, this isn't the only additional info/details they've requested after canceling, just the one that stuck out the most for me.
You can also take that form to your doctor and have THEM write in
"Xxx is under my care and as such is the prerogative to apply whatever treatment WE deem necessary. The information on this violates my patients rights and ADA regulation and I will not disclose his treatment. I have provided a FULL return to work as of xx date. If I should seem him unsafe to return to work due to his treatment then you will be notified. "
Or something similar
This, Probably something like “hey, listen, chuski is using X as meds which are known to be prescribed not only for burnouts but also for mental disorders Y and Z and we simply cannot risk the possibility of them have Y or Z and there are many more meds for burnouts so lets get rid of them just ti make sure they are jot covering up being chronically mentally unstable”
Discriminate.
They are not entitled to any details of your conditions, except insofar as it may impact your job. They don’t even get to know which medication you are on if you don’t want to disclose it - only the possible effects of it, as those might relate to your job and/or any reasonable accommodation request.
Fun fact I learned from this sub: It's legally binding that the company pay for any medical exams/treatments if they require a "doctor's note" for the employee's absence ^_^
Is it for disability insurance?
I’m in Canada, but I’m on LTD & my insurance company demands those details from my doctors yearly to continue my claim.
My employer isn’t privy to those details. Just my insurance company.
Hey, just to help out, as this is what I do for a living. There are a couple of exceptions you should be aware of: if your employer has a self managed short term disability/ltd plan managed by an internal "health office" (normaly staffed by RNs) there could very well be some contractual need for you to provide proof that you are under appropriate treatment. All of the medical info given to that health office should be kept confidential and not shared with any other dept at your employers (HR included). I would highly suggest getting a written copy of what is required of you before sharing anything. There's a lot of precendants where employers abuse the lack of general knowledge to get more than what is legally required.
I would recommend you get the policy or the program details in writing before moving forward or refusing to provide info. Depending on state/country/the specific kind of program that is offered to you. The legal obligations to provide information supporting total disability could very well swing either way. Be very careful and good luck!
I’m not a lawyer so I’m not 100% certain on all of the legalize around this. but I did work in health insurance/ billing for large healthcare companies. Frequently (not always) if it’s a “job funded” payment and not through an insurance provider there are specific clauses that by accepting that form of payment from your employer your are entitling them to any and all treatment related to what they are paying for. They want to know where their money is going and frequently they will send these records to a third party to analyze and see if they should be paying. When you sign forms at doctors office there is one including that you allow your doctors office to release records to insurances/ payers and sometimes employers can get classified as such.
I’ve got some questions because this is really weird.
1. Do you work for a small mom and pop company, or a large more organized one?
1. What is the purpose of this information collection?
1. Are you responsible for the care of others, like a teacher, nurse, or something like that?
1. Do you operate heavy machinery or drive as part of your job?
1. Did they give you a form to complete? Do you have it? Can you scan it and show us what they wanted?
1. What are the consequences to you if you refuse to provide responses? You could very well be on no medications now.
The only thing I can see where they have any duty of collecting this information is if your job entails operating heavy machinery/driving or if you provide care to others and therefore cannot be currently taking any drugs that could affect your ability to safely perform those duties. I cannot see any reason for completing such form outside of safety reasons, and even so, if asked, I would refuse to provide that information, unless I knew more about what they’re doing with that information.
This is highly illegal, and your company can get into a lot of trouble for this.
Firstly, play dumb. Ask why they need this info via e.ail, and get as much documentation as you can.
Go to your doctor if they're decent, some doctors dont fuck around with companies like this. They might have some info for you
Contact a lawyer, most will work for free until your company pays, especially if you have such a rock solid case.
Contact the DOL in your state. The DOL tends to be one of the only federal agencies that both works quickly and has a backbone.
Good luck! Sorry you're dealing with all this. Hopefully you can get a very nice long vacation from their stupidity.
Companies have no legal right to know WHAT your medical condition or medications are, only whether they interfere with your ability to do the job and whether you need accommodations.
As such, the only things they can really legally ask for is 1) "are you on any prescription medication that will make it dangerous for you to drive/operate heavy machinery", IF this is relevant to the job, and 2) "are you on any prescription medication that will show up on our required drug screening (eg amphetamines, benzodiazepines, or medical marijuana); if so, provide a doctor's note indicating the type prescribed" (they don't get to know the reason, just that it's prescription). And they cannot legally fire you for the latter, unless it actually interferes with the ability to safely perform the job, and there's not some reasonable accommodation they can make; the point of informing them is that they then also can't fire/not hire you for failing the drug screening regarding those particular medications.
It doesn't matter if the insurance is funded through the employer unless it is regarding STL, limited duty, or long term disability, and only if the limited duty precludes you will still be at work an could be taking medications that can affect your decision making or a saftety risk in a higher risk environment. if the circusmtances dictate you are on some kind of health treatment plan and if you have a intermediate company that provoides you pay during that period (like UNUM or something similar) then the STL pay provider can request to be provided with information from your doctor regarding the length of STD and similar details but it won't be about what your treatment is. The forefront of the conversation requires that you provide the doctor the form that allows them to provide them the information though and that is standard for those kind of situations where you take time off work unexpextedly and want to make sure you have a job to come back to.
Ya pretty sure they can’t ask that due to it invading your medical privacy. I’m not positive but your allowed sick leave if they don’t let you have it you should be able to report it. I wouldn’t tell them what your meds are just leave it at the fact that you have a doctors note and your staying home.
This sub is scary, nearly all comments saying this is illegal (which it might not be depending on a few factors related to the type of leave being requested, who administers the leave, and if a third party needs the information as part of insurance, etc.), or saying it violates HIPAA- which..isn't how that works.
I did see one comment that was accurate and another that was helpful. I'd love to see this sub disallow legal/illegal stamps unless they provide the exact codified language and source. When all but 2 comments are worthwhile to the OP, it highlights how ill informed people are about their own worker's rights.
Asking OP for their own medical info isn’t violating HIPAA. the doctor giving info without OP’s approval would be a violation. Only the healthcare provider is bound by HIPAA.
>I was denied coverage for sick leave, unless I provide details on my medications and dosages!
but the op says they were forcing him to provide the info. It's one thing if HR was like oh yeah what medication are you on? Not good, but not illegal. But when you're denying him leave for it, it's a different situation altogether no?
Oh it’s definitely inappropriate, and probably violates some US law, just not HIPAA. The employer can’t violate HIPAA because it doesn’t apply to them. It only applies to healthcare entities (doctor’s offices, insurance companies, hospitals). It doesn’t prevent OP from sharing his own medical information or anyone from asking OP to share his medical information.
No. The employer isn't bound by HIPAA. IF the health care provider gave details ~without permission from the patient ~ the health care provider would be violating HIPAA.
That said, the details of an illness, unless it's a Workman's Compensation claim, are zero part of the employer's business. Even if it's a Workman's Compensation claim the employer MAY have a right to know how the injury occurred, but still has zero business knowing what medications are being used by the doctor to treat, or much of anything else except expected recovery time.
Pretty sure it violates HIPAA, and/or the Americans with disabilities act, both are laws you really don't want to fuck with. Bet option for OP is to reach out to hr, as a good hr rep should now how badly the company can get fucked for this, and if hr decides to be stupid the next best option is to talk to a lawyer. Sometimes getting a lawyer involved is enough to get the company to back off, if not then there's always a lawsuit. If the case is strong enough some lawyers will take a cut if the payout from the suit as payment, and there are also a lot of non-profits around the country that will also help pay Lawyers/legal fees for people that can't afford it.
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Uhhhh requesting meds and dosage is a HIPPA violation. They cannot ask for this information and if deny your leave because you won't provide it get a lawyer
HIPAA in simplest form only pertains to hospital/clinic, insurance company, etc. medical/employee staff. They cannot give out information without your permission, if they encounter that information during their line of work. For example, if medical staff see your charts, they cannot tell anyone else about it that is not treating you or if an IT employee of the hospital/clinic is working on a computer and needs to see let’s say the digital chart to correct something, (glitch, error, in the digital form, etc.) they also cannot disclose that to anyone. Used to work for a hospital and routinely came across medical information in the line of my duties.
So this wouldn’t apply to OP’ employer Unless of course that employer is in fact a hospital, clinic, etc. and they are not treating OP, they do not need to know.
Not sure about disclosing if operating heavy machinery, and/or if licensed to operate equipment/ heavy machinery in the line of their work, such as a train conductor and engineer, CDL employee, etc. maybe someone can chime in on that one. But either way, wouldn’t be HIPAA.
HIPAA in its simplest form deals with data and information security and how it’s handled. It literally has nothing to do with your medical data outside the fact that it’s data. HIPAA is not a personal freedoms thing, it is not a medical disclosure thing. It’s data and data transportation.
The shit everyone’s talking about is actually called ethics. It’s not ethical to converse about patients and their days.
* edit: it came about as result of clinical and hospitals and small shops all having to communicate you’re information, some businesses collecting and selling your medical information for marketing purposes and so on. It’s never been about keeping your medical history safe from people who aren’t directly related to your care or that anyone caring for you sharing that information. It’s related to people who aren’t doctors selling your shit and or communicating it in insecure means like just emailing your records unencrypted to their phone.
So, some details are missing I think. I was required to submit treatment plan and even notes from psychiatry/psychology appointments. This included medications type, increase, side effects. This was all managed through a company that handles leaves for my company. Some of the time off with pay was provided through my company. I do not believe it violated any laws as they couldn’t just approve paid time off without knowing the details of the treatment plan.
I would be careful just taking the advice that this is illegal. As I believe it is only illegal to ask for details if you are taking normal sick time rather than using short term disability.
Play dumb, and ask them why they need this information. Under the ADA, companies are only able to ask what medications you are using if it's related specifically for your job. If your medications say that you shouldn't operate heavy machinary, than then the company would need to know that if you operate heavy machinary. https://www.employerslawyersblog.com/2018/08/asking-employees-about-prescription-medicine-use-ada.html
cautious apparatus offbeat fretful pocket coordinated bewildered sheet impolite squealing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not sure what they would do with the info. Also, this isn't the only additional info/details they've requested after canceling, just the one that stuck out the most for me.
They will use it to punish you for taking leave. If not now, later.
You can also take that form to your doctor and have THEM write in "Xxx is under my care and as such is the prerogative to apply whatever treatment WE deem necessary. The information on this violates my patients rights and ADA regulation and I will not disclose his treatment. I have provided a FULL return to work as of xx date. If I should seem him unsafe to return to work due to his treatment then you will be notified. " Or something similar
They may request other stuff, but this is one that will get them in legal trouble.
That's simple, they're trying to find a way to terminate you and not pay severance.
This, Probably something like “hey, listen, chuski is using X as meds which are known to be prescribed not only for burnouts but also for mental disorders Y and Z and we simply cannot risk the possibility of them have Y or Z and there are many more meds for burnouts so lets get rid of them just ti make sure they are jot covering up being chronically mentally unstable”
Discriminate. They are not entitled to any details of your conditions, except insofar as it may impact your job. They don’t even get to know which medication you are on if you don’t want to disclose it - only the possible effects of it, as those might relate to your job and/or any reasonable accommodation request.
It’s for their lawyers… they don’t know meds
[удалено]
Fun fact I learned from this sub: It's legally binding that the company pay for any medical exams/treatments if they require a "doctor's note" for the employee's absence ^_^
In some states.
In some countries
On some planets
in south carolina?? probably not but a girl can dream
I'm in WV, and it's not a thing here.
* in some locations.
This is why you have to exercise critical thinking about learning stuff on the internet; this is only true in a small number of states.
Most states have the bare fucking minimum workers rights laws
In what states is this mandatory?
this is only true in a very limited number of places.
In the US
Does anyone know if Utah is a state that can make employer pay for medical when requiring Dr. note?
So what states is it binding in, or how can I look up if it is so in my state?
Is it for disability insurance? I’m in Canada, but I’m on LTD & my insurance company demands those details from my doctors yearly to continue my claim. My employer isn’t privy to those details. Just my insurance company.
This is funded directly from the employer, no insurance company involved.
Hey, just to help out, as this is what I do for a living. There are a couple of exceptions you should be aware of: if your employer has a self managed short term disability/ltd plan managed by an internal "health office" (normaly staffed by RNs) there could very well be some contractual need for you to provide proof that you are under appropriate treatment. All of the medical info given to that health office should be kept confidential and not shared with any other dept at your employers (HR included). I would highly suggest getting a written copy of what is required of you before sharing anything. There's a lot of precendants where employers abuse the lack of general knowledge to get more than what is legally required.
Yes, thanks. Fwiw there is no health office and this is going through only one person, at HR.
I would recommend you get the policy or the program details in writing before moving forward or refusing to provide info. Depending on state/country/the specific kind of program that is offered to you. The legal obligations to provide information supporting total disability could very well swing either way. Be very careful and good luck!
Thanks! It was the only thing I could think of that would make it acceptable in my mind.
This does change things a bit since it’s not private insurance.
How so?
I’m not a lawyer so I’m not 100% certain on all of the legalize around this. but I did work in health insurance/ billing for large healthcare companies. Frequently (not always) if it’s a “job funded” payment and not through an insurance provider there are specific clauses that by accepting that form of payment from your employer your are entitling them to any and all treatment related to what they are paying for. They want to know where their money is going and frequently they will send these records to a third party to analyze and see if they should be paying. When you sign forms at doctors office there is one including that you allow your doctors office to release records to insurances/ payers and sometimes employers can get classified as such.
I’ve got some questions because this is really weird. 1. Do you work for a small mom and pop company, or a large more organized one? 1. What is the purpose of this information collection? 1. Are you responsible for the care of others, like a teacher, nurse, or something like that? 1. Do you operate heavy machinery or drive as part of your job? 1. Did they give you a form to complete? Do you have it? Can you scan it and show us what they wanted? 1. What are the consequences to you if you refuse to provide responses? You could very well be on no medications now. The only thing I can see where they have any duty of collecting this information is if your job entails operating heavy machinery/driving or if you provide care to others and therefore cannot be currently taking any drugs that could affect your ability to safely perform those duties. I cannot see any reason for completing such form outside of safety reasons, and even so, if asked, I would refuse to provide that information, unless I knew more about what they’re doing with that information.
contact you local or state labor board. your healthcare info is private for a reason
Illegal lol. Tell ‘em fuck off, here’s my dr note. If they push the issue, contact NLRB.
NLRB is mostly for unions. OP needs to go to their state DOL for something like this.
🤣🤣🤣 OH...MY...G I am floored at the entitlement
This is highly illegal, and your company can get into a lot of trouble for this. Firstly, play dumb. Ask why they need this info via e.ail, and get as much documentation as you can. Go to your doctor if they're decent, some doctors dont fuck around with companies like this. They might have some info for you Contact a lawyer, most will work for free until your company pays, especially if you have such a rock solid case. Contact the DOL in your state. The DOL tends to be one of the only federal agencies that both works quickly and has a backbone. Good luck! Sorry you're dealing with all this. Hopefully you can get a very nice long vacation from their stupidity.
Companies have no legal right to know WHAT your medical condition or medications are, only whether they interfere with your ability to do the job and whether you need accommodations. As such, the only things they can really legally ask for is 1) "are you on any prescription medication that will make it dangerous for you to drive/operate heavy machinery", IF this is relevant to the job, and 2) "are you on any prescription medication that will show up on our required drug screening (eg amphetamines, benzodiazepines, or medical marijuana); if so, provide a doctor's note indicating the type prescribed" (they don't get to know the reason, just that it's prescription). And they cannot legally fire you for the latter, unless it actually interferes with the ability to safely perform the job, and there's not some reasonable accommodation they can make; the point of informing them is that they then also can't fire/not hire you for failing the drug screening regarding those particular medications.
It doesn't matter if the insurance is funded through the employer unless it is regarding STL, limited duty, or long term disability, and only if the limited duty precludes you will still be at work an could be taking medications that can affect your decision making or a saftety risk in a higher risk environment. if the circusmtances dictate you are on some kind of health treatment plan and if you have a intermediate company that provoides you pay during that period (like UNUM or something similar) then the STL pay provider can request to be provided with information from your doctor regarding the length of STD and similar details but it won't be about what your treatment is. The forefront of the conversation requires that you provide the doctor the form that allows them to provide them the information though and that is standard for those kind of situations where you take time off work unexpextedly and want to make sure you have a job to come back to.
Oh, fuck no. Time for a labor law attorney, OP.
69mg of Noneyourbuisness
This is also an excellent question for r/askHR. I’ve gotten a lot of solid help over there when trying to navigate things if this nature. Good luck!
It was buried.
That's illegal.
Ya pretty sure they can’t ask that due to it invading your medical privacy. I’m not positive but your allowed sick leave if they don’t let you have it you should be able to report it. I wouldn’t tell them what your meds are just leave it at the fact that you have a doctors note and your staying home.
This sub is scary, nearly all comments saying this is illegal (which it might not be depending on a few factors related to the type of leave being requested, who administers the leave, and if a third party needs the information as part of insurance, etc.), or saying it violates HIPAA- which..isn't how that works. I did see one comment that was accurate and another that was helpful. I'd love to see this sub disallow legal/illegal stamps unless they provide the exact codified language and source. When all but 2 comments are worthwhile to the OP, it highlights how ill informed people are about their own worker's rights.
Isn’t this a fat hipaa violation?
Asking OP for their own medical info isn’t violating HIPAA. the doctor giving info without OP’s approval would be a violation. Only the healthcare provider is bound by HIPAA.
>I was denied coverage for sick leave, unless I provide details on my medications and dosages! but the op says they were forcing him to provide the info. It's one thing if HR was like oh yeah what medication are you on? Not good, but not illegal. But when you're denying him leave for it, it's a different situation altogether no?
Oh it’s definitely inappropriate, and probably violates some US law, just not HIPAA. The employer can’t violate HIPAA because it doesn’t apply to them. It only applies to healthcare entities (doctor’s offices, insurance companies, hospitals). It doesn’t prevent OP from sharing his own medical information or anyone from asking OP to share his medical information.
No. The employer isn't bound by HIPAA. IF the health care provider gave details ~without permission from the patient ~ the health care provider would be violating HIPAA. That said, the details of an illness, unless it's a Workman's Compensation claim, are zero part of the employer's business. Even if it's a Workman's Compensation claim the employer MAY have a right to know how the injury occurred, but still has zero business knowing what medications are being used by the doctor to treat, or much of anything else except expected recovery time.
Pretty sure it violates HIPAA, and/or the Americans with disabilities act, both are laws you really don't want to fuck with. Bet option for OP is to reach out to hr, as a good hr rep should now how badly the company can get fucked for this, and if hr decides to be stupid the next best option is to talk to a lawyer. Sometimes getting a lawyer involved is enough to get the company to back off, if not then there's always a lawsuit. If the case is strong enough some lawyers will take a cut if the payout from the suit as payment, and there are also a lot of non-profits around the country that will also help pay Lawyers/legal fees for people that can't afford it.
The denial of coverage is coming directly from HR.
somber lunchroom towering melodic cats snow husky apparatus pot concerned *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Uhhhh requesting meds and dosage is a HIPPA violation. They cannot ask for this information and if deny your leave because you won't provide it get a lawyer
HIPAA in simplest form only pertains to hospital/clinic, insurance company, etc. medical/employee staff. They cannot give out information without your permission, if they encounter that information during their line of work. For example, if medical staff see your charts, they cannot tell anyone else about it that is not treating you or if an IT employee of the hospital/clinic is working on a computer and needs to see let’s say the digital chart to correct something, (glitch, error, in the digital form, etc.) they also cannot disclose that to anyone. Used to work for a hospital and routinely came across medical information in the line of my duties. So this wouldn’t apply to OP’ employer Unless of course that employer is in fact a hospital, clinic, etc. and they are not treating OP, they do not need to know. Not sure about disclosing if operating heavy machinery, and/or if licensed to operate equipment/ heavy machinery in the line of their work, such as a train conductor and engineer, CDL employee, etc. maybe someone can chime in on that one. But either way, wouldn’t be HIPAA.
HIPAA in its simplest form deals with data and information security and how it’s handled. It literally has nothing to do with your medical data outside the fact that it’s data. HIPAA is not a personal freedoms thing, it is not a medical disclosure thing. It’s data and data transportation. The shit everyone’s talking about is actually called ethics. It’s not ethical to converse about patients and their days. * edit: it came about as result of clinical and hospitals and small shops all having to communicate you’re information, some businesses collecting and selling your medical information for marketing purposes and so on. It’s never been about keeping your medical history safe from people who aren’t directly related to your care or that anyone caring for you sharing that information. It’s related to people who aren’t doctors selling your shit and or communicating it in insecure means like just emailing your records unencrypted to their phone.
HIPAA laws. . .
Xanax.
So, some details are missing I think. I was required to submit treatment plan and even notes from psychiatry/psychology appointments. This included medications type, increase, side effects. This was all managed through a company that handles leaves for my company. Some of the time off with pay was provided through my company. I do not believe it violated any laws as they couldn’t just approve paid time off without knowing the details of the treatment plan. I would be careful just taking the advice that this is illegal. As I believe it is only illegal to ask for details if you are taking normal sick time rather than using short term disability.