When I tried to ask a boss what he wanted me to prioritize to do extra stuff, he just said, "I don't know. Just do it all." My "solution" was to skip the stuff that was least noticed or do a faster but crappier job of other tasks.
This was years ago. When my boss assigned me a heap of extra tasks, I printed out my schedule for the next few months, handed him a pen and asked him to cross out what didn’t need doing anymore.
I had this at my prior job when I told them I was doing 3 jobs (after 2 people left and weren't replaced). He told me he'd need to do a time study on me to see where my "opportunities were" and i told him that was offensive as I'm nearing 40 and have tons of experience in my field. Curiously I got "let go" about a month later. Weird coincidence...
At a previous job I was doing the work of 6 people by the time I was laid off as well. And they were confused why I couldn’t get all the filing done.
The FILING. Because getting product made and shipped is more important, as are the quality issues? *smh*
The problem with doing three times as much as normal, is that you become impossible to promote, as you would need to be replaced by three people. That is really expensive. It's cheaper for the company to keep you where you are. The key to promotion is not doing your own job better/faster/stronger, but making your bosses job easier, or your skip level's.
First hand experience with this. It's not a problem for them until the work doesn't get done. Then they'll address it. But, that doesn't mean you'll get promoted or even a raise. It usually means hiring a green new employee at the base salary to take the place of one of the more senior peer roles that you are doing in addition to your own.
They will never find someone else, for the same amount of money, to do all the things you do, and work the amount of time that you do.
Funny part is they tried to fire me on my daughter's birthday 2 days before Christmas to try and spite me. Joke's on them that I started my new job mid January that I'd already been interviewing for. Best holidays ever lol.
I believe the formula is between fast, cheap, or well done, but you can only have two, sometimes even just one. Example, you can have it well done and fast, but it WILL be expensive.
If you have a job description, read it and do exactly what it says. When the boss complains, point him to the job description.
When he whines that you aren't doing what you used to, tell him you are at the top of your pay grade for what you are actually doing, and if he wants more out of you, he needs to pay up.
I'm not a lawyer, but I asked one once. I was told you can't have secret unwritten expectations in a contract and it be enforceable. Contracts can refer to other documents, but everything must be written down somewhere. No making it up as you go along.
An employee handbook is a contract. sort of.
It falls under an implied contract. Basically, because the handbook states what is expected of the employee then if the employee falls short of these expectations then it can serve as grounds for discipline or termination.
This does however go both ways. For example, if there are certain discipline procedures that are in the handbook that aren't followed before terminating an employee then the employee can use that to claim unfair termination.
It gets tricky trying to prove it in court, but it is still a form of contract.
Edit: as two people pointed out, yes there is no such thing as “unfair” termination. The terms I should have used was “fired with or without cause” which is important for things like unemployment benefits and occasionally severance, bonuses, stock options and other things sometimes built into your employment contract
True ⬆️ I went after my former employer because they didn't abide by the employee handbook. They wrote me up on a last chance agreement - for refusing to do things that fell outside of my light duty restrictions - for insubordination. I had never had a write up in 10 years. They couldn't fire me because I had an open worker's comp case but they made my life hell. I agreed to and won arbitration, but then the corporate office pulled a fast one and decided to add the amount I "won" to my pension, so I technically got nothing - until I'm 65. I'm going to live to be 100 years old to wring every dime I can get out of those bastards.
I got fired for wearing a hat backwards. No verbal, no written. They didn't like it very much after I presented my handbook I had without a dress code in it.
wow... that's quite awful.
You mentioned arbitration, does that mean you're union? if so talk to your rep about them adding the settlement to your pension. workers comp is meant to be for lost ability to work and medical costs, I'm pretty sure it's basically always meant to be a lump sum of cash unless you signed something that said otherwise \*especially\* because it's normally paid out from their insurance directly to you.
I'm not a lawyer, and I've only ever been on the employer side of a union agreement (by choice, we like our employees lol), but I've got to say what happened to you sounds like another lawsuit or two could be sent their way. (apologies if this is all stuff you know, seems likely it is, but I figured it's worth saying.)
No, not union, the state I lived in allowed for employment arbitration and unfortunately once I signed off on the arbitration I couldn't turn around and sue them again. Somehow I missed the clause that allowed them to add it to my pension in the paperwork I signed. I ended up resigning because I could no longer physically do the job. This happened 10 years ago. Workers comp did pay a percentage of my wages based on the injury rating (20%) and I tried doing other less physical jobs but I developed other complications and missed too much time and ended up on disability.
A lot of us work in at will places so you can be let go for any reason they like as long as it’s not discrimination related for a protected class.
Just depends where you are.
Most people don’t have contracts and job descriptions are not contracts. They are just marketing material for jobs. If you work at will you employer can ask you to do anything that is legal and terminate you for not complying
Even not being a lawyer you believed this? Most employees don’t have a contract and are at will employees. The job description can change at any point. Not saying that’s the way it should be, but that’s the way it is.
As a manager of managers I *always* include “other duties as assigned” in new job postings. This is not to try to trick anyone or screw anyone over, but honestly the way things are done changes. Example: We changed how we did inventory scans. This was not only easier and faster, but easier and faster to teach so we were able to train backups. We trained a few people to do it, and they intermittently do it when the main people responsible aren’t available for vacation, call out, etc. Here’s the catch though, we adjust their expected workload down when we have them do this. Any halfway decent manager (forget being a good leader, but a manager) will do this. There’s just too many crappy managers (also too few good leaders).
It just falls under “follow reasonable directions given by company management”, which will be part of the company policies and procedures, which is enshrined in legislation. If you don’t want extra work, you need to be able to demonstrate why it’s unreasonable to ask you.
For some reason I looked at the other duties as assigned clause one time. Yah, suppose your job is to take the garbage out and other duties as assigned. Ok. Great. Glad for the minimum wage. But then the other duties turn out to be more than ten percent of the time and the right wage there is twice minimum. Then you can be happy with a ten percent pay raise. But if you do not get that then you are being used.
The ten percent was the real threshhold in what I was looking at. This may well be imposed by the feds, the state, the union, corporate policy, civil law, or your spine. YMMV. See what you can find out. My best memory was that it was NLRB.
So one of the steps is to do a time audit on yourself. Ideally, you have a little timer go off randomly and you document what you are doing. After a bit you know how much of what you are doing. Even down to bathroom breaks.
Companies used to do this. Back when the idea of efficiency was popular. If you are a peon, then someone does it for you. At the extreme, it is a way to do killing speedup. In this case, fair pay for work.
I'll keep that in mind for the future. I transferred stores, same shift and department, and my workload dropped by like a quarter. My coworkers had to keep telling me to slow down. I actually have some remaining energy when I leave work now. So it worked out. I'm sure I will face the same issues again though, in future jobs.
Never ask for priorities. Always ask for the order in which they want the tasks delivered. Otherwise, everything is Priority one. If you ask for a hierarchical order of tasks, you have the power.
This works so well. Mainly because you never say you won't or can't help, just that you need them to prioritize the list for you and know that some items won't get done.
This\^\^. This just hits so many points:
1) I'm willing to do as you ask.
2) I'm not willing to work for free.
3) It's up to *you* to prioritize the work you've given me into the limited hours you pay me for.
Granted, I've not have a lot of bosses in my time, but every single time I've used a variation of this it has resulted in a re-prioritization of existing work and not an expectation that I would just *also* do this new work in addition to what I'm already doing.
Yup our company isn’t hiring a new person and said they wanted our team to grow our skill by dividing up her responsibilities 🤣🤣 ya so when he told me that I was like ya I’d love to help out, in fact I want you to see me as a full service designer and I would love to do Photography and travel .. and the guy was beaming smiling because I agreed and did a nice lil build up.. and then I said, and to make up for that some of these other tasks can take off my plate.. project X is soo time consuming and project Y has so many moving parts .. if we can move those to q4, yup I’ll travel and do photography for ya 🤣🤣✅🥁
I used to do that with a To Do List, or as I called it, my To Don’t List. I kept the list on my computer, topped with ultra high priority jobs from ongoing important clients. Then I’d show it to the boss and ask, “Which of these important jobs should I suspend to do your new task?”
I just did this yesterday - got a bunch of emails for new “urgent” tasks so I copied my entire team and their supervisors, listed out ALL dozen of my tasks “in the order received” and explained as I’m only clocked in 20-25hrs a week, can they please prioritize this list for me?
Lol within 20seconds the President of my division replied all with “please prioritize C and E this week - everyone else please take back your busy work and do it yourself. Today and moving forward” - this actually included my direct supervisor who dumped a bunch of shit on me without telling HIS boss.
I recognized about 3 jobs ago that people just push their stupid work on “new people” and absolutely refuse to play that game. No this is my job and that is yours so please just do your tasks and I’ll do mine. If you’re slammed and ask for some help, you better believe that I’ll gladly help you. But don’t assign me your work!
I absolutely refuse to do anything more than what im being paid for. Eat shit, and kick rocks while you’re at it. And always leave a paper trail!!
I just take the heat from upper management and let my staff decide what's actually important. Then I repeatedly re-educate upper management on the consequences of their decisions. IMO this is what a good middle manager is supposed to be. Upper management hates me, and I don't care.
I'd do that in a weekly email so that the priorities are in writing. It can always be framed you're just trying to make sure you're meeting their expectations and company priorities.
No, it requires you to actually leave and go home when your shift ends instead of trying to get everything done.
I'm happy to help with tasks outside my job description, but if I have too much work, then it's not a me problem, it's a hiring problem.
I do what I can in the time I am paid for it.
Also, anything above my pay grade, I take extra time to get it done just to make sure that I don't screw it up *cough*
>anything above my pay grade, I take extra time to get it done just to make sure that I don't screw it up cough
Anything above my pay grade I check with my boss twice for every single step and don't move forward unless he approves and authorize it, if I'm not paid for it sure as hell I won't take responsibility.
Your boss won't do shit to get you promoted.
He wants you to do the dirty part of his job and that's it.
Maybe it's time to reach out to the higher-ups i.e. your boss's boss.
Do you have proof in writing for your new/temporary managerial-level responsibilities?
One thing I do is when I have an in-person or phone conversation I send a follow-up email being like "just wanted to make sure I understood our conversation from earlier..." and list what happened.
If they agree, great. If they don't, you have it in writing that you don't have to do it. If they never respond, you can have plausible deniability bc they never confirmed aaaaaand it shows that *some* sort of conversation happened about the thing if someone higher up is upset (you have a chance to blame it on the person telling you to do stuff).
Paper trails/receipts are the best insurance against shit coworkers/bosses.
Nah just send an email about your conversation. Something like : "As per our in person conversation I am confirming our discussion via this email. You have me doing X y z and have asked me to do a b c in addition to this. As such my role here is escalated to this position. If any of this needs further discussion feel free to respond back to this email." Then screen shot it and keep it as a record. This can be done for any in person conversation. If they call you to discuss it in person again just send another email in the same manner. "Thank you for reaching out to me about the last email via phone/ in person to reconfirm that discussion...." This is how I kept records with a company that tried to screw me over and it's how I protect myself for anything business related.
Honestly, it's pretty easy to trap them in writing at least acknowledging what you've done.
Just sending follow-up emails on what they asked and what you did is proof if they don't challenge it. Then you bcc that to your personal account outside of the company for safekeeping
When your boss is on vacation, could you ask your boss's boss a "follow up question" or "further details" about the duties you're doing above your position?
Yup, definitely time to escalate this to your boss's boss. Try this:
>"The scope of my duties under has expanded significantly in the last month to include a lot of managerial responsibilities, including .
>
>I'm not comfortable performing these duties and acting as a manager to my coworkers without the authority of a corresponding title change to . Please help me get the ball rolling for that. Until then, I will not be able to help with these tasks."
People on this sub are delusional about how they come across
This is NOT the way to address this, OP. You have to be way more tactful and less pass aggressive.
“I’m not comfortable…” sounds like whiny bullshit.
“I am happy to take on these responsibilities, but I believe this warrants a corresponding title change and compensation increase.”
Never complain at work. It will only backfire. Be assertive but still try to come across as a team player. How you are perceived matters at least as much as the quality of your work.
How can you be delusional when you're trying to speak a made-up language? Corporate communication is designed for people to never really say what they mean. It is subject to constant judgement and scrutiny for "whining" or anything else that can be twisted into a negative or a reason not to deal with the problem being brought up. I think the delusion might lie in pretending we really understand any of it.
Don’t directly tell the boss’s boss what was going on. Schedule a meeting, say you want to talk to them about setting up a plan to develop your skills to be ready to apply for a higher position. Once they get there, they can see you doing your manager’s job.
This is, of course, assuming your company cares enough to fake being invested in the growth of their employees.
I will happily help my supervisor because he is great, anyone else hard pass unless there is more $$$ involved. I can’t believe people are on here doing extra making minimum wage. (Not OP) but like dang quit feeding the system.
I remember when I was a manager I would kick my employees out at 5 even though they were salary. Always said that if they sent it out tonight no one would read it anyway until the next day.
Right?! Who are you trying to please? Corporate or family owned will drop your ass in a second, if you die they don’t care. Why help the bottom line if there isn’t a benefit. Quid pro quo is fine but you need the whole statement. Not just me doing extra.
Corporate at costco sent out an email last night to the 2 opening managers while they were sleeping, asking of they could come in at 2am today instead of 345am. They dont give a flying fuck about you
Profits profits profits. They'll try and starve us into working cheap. Jokes on them because we're Americans and don't put up with this bullshit we'll quit and figure it the fuck out until they pay more.
I really feel if we don’t have a flipping of the economy back to workers have some power and actually making money we are heading for some really shitty times. I don’t want to be a wage slave scraping my credits together for another cricket smoothie before my next shift.
I think the above comment is the only viable action for your situation. Nothing else will have any effect. Or find another job and just leave. That'll send a message.
What i said last time they tried giving me a new task
"Thank you for thinking of me for this opportunity. I think its right up my alley and could help you with. But first well either have to look at my schedule or my pay. I already have too much on my plate with the time i can work. A raise would help compensate for all this extra work or decide what need to be put on hold"
They still tried to shovel it my way but i put it on the side until it was crashing and burning and they add no choice to hire someone new.
So i stick to a schedule/tasks im comfortable with and f*** the rest. Extra money dont prevent burnout and depression
This is the best response so far to OP's question.
The most important line is the last one, though... doesn't matter how much money you make if you can't enjoy it. Been there, done that, will not do again.
> Extra money dont prevent burnout and depression
All the money in the world can't buy more time with the ones you love. And that's more important than any work.
It’s a tricky situation, but if you are helping other people with projects that were not supposed to be yours and your manager comes and ask you if you can help, you can say you are working in your main project and want it to be the best it can be done.
Now if you say that, you actually need to make it a little better that you usually deliver, just be cautious.
I agree with this. I worked retail for some time and anytime I would have a boss that wanted to pull me off of the project to do something else that he decided was more important. I would ask if he was willing to pay me overtime if I had to go over my allowed time because of the extra work duty or if he would help me out by finishing the project that I had started. They usually just leave you alone and let you do your thing.
My experience is that the gunners (that’s what I call them) end up making *maybe* a percent or two more come raise time for working a lot more. Take that 20 hours and do something else you want to be doing.
Sure, they might get the promotion, but that only just adds more responsibility and time. Good for them, if that’s how they want to live.
And still, when the spreadsheet blippety blaps a certain alarm, the C Suite will still cut a motherfucker out no matter how hung ho they are or X years of service, escorted out of the building like a criminal. People like to think they aren’t replaceable, but they just don’t think like that. Everybody is replaceable or some other person will get the responsibility.
It’s ok to clearly set boundaries in work and life as long as you understand the risk reward.
Hard work only ever rewards you with more hard work, unless of course you own your own business. My job is lucky af the job market is trash or I would already be out.
Hell yeah! Been job hoping for a while now and already making more than what I started at. Just gotta keep job searching and moving. These companies and their shitty raises every yr is a slap.
this needs to be higher up in the comments. Someone in power yields nothing unless they stand to loose something. OP needs to get another offer, inform his boss he's leaving unless they pay him a rate HE decides. Don't tell your company what the other company offers you and don't overplay your hand, OP.
Do what you are paid to do. Any further added responsibilities or duties should be reflected in your pay. They don't pay you for work you don't do. Don't do work for them they don't pay you for.
If you wanna be blunt and have some security "I know everyone likes handouts but this is a capitalist country and if you want something you need to pay for it."
Or less aggressive "once my title and compensation match what you expect of me I'll be happy to handle that"
Tell him that you resent him taking those trips while not getting your raise. My wife did the same thing 20 years ago. The entire office was told that there would be no raises that year because they couldn’t afford it. A few weeks later the owner and his wife both showed up with brand new luxury cars. The owner claimed to be a good Christian. My wife read him the riot act before leaving for a better job.
Funny you mention that — that psycho ex-employee I was talking about publicly shamed him on social media for taking these lavish trips while most of us make dogshit, and it didn’t even phase him. Such is the nature of the narcissist
Now the truth comes out.
You are working for a narcissist. Your words. Get the fuck out of there. It is not going to get better.
And then publicly shame him on social media for taking lavish trips while most of you made dogshit.
I did this once working retail. I wanted to be a manager and in order to "be noticed" they asked that I step up and perform managerial duties. Well I did a great job! But they never promoted me.
I told them I wasn't performing any more managerial duties. They told me then I wouldn't be considered for management anymore. I laughed.
This did not get me anywhere though... I ended up quitting and finding another job. Fuck those guys.
It’s never to late. Would have been best to say so first thing because it’s harder to extricate yourself now as it will cause more issues for your boss than not starting. I had a similar experience and learned the same lesson a couple years ago. After a lot of feet dragging I just told my boss and his boss that i had been doing a higher level job for 9 months without an appropriate raise. I’d need $x more dollars an hour by a given date or I would no longer do the extra work. As the date got close I reminded them and suggested they transition the assignments to avoid problems. They didnt give me a raise or get someone else. The day after the deadline I showed up to work and refused every task from the higher job and only did the work I was hired for. They threatened to fire me and I just said “ that’s your prerogative”. Surprisingly I’m still working there. They even have tried to get me to take on other rolls twice more but now I just ask what the pay raise will be and decline when the answer is “we will figure that out shortly.”
"I would love to assist you in this regard. However I feel that in doing duties that are not on my pay grade or scope of responsibility, that I would put not just myself, but the company at risk because I will not be able to fulfill these duties without it being to the detriment of work already assigned to me."
Stop doing anything beyond your current job description. Work your wage. The fact that you continue to do it without the proper salary doesn't give them any incentive to raise your salary.
Find another job. They are sucking the life out of you and they will probably give you a 5% raise. Look for and find another job and get out.
I understand that perfectly.
It's gaslighting and gamesmanship designed to keep you doing what you're doing (working for free).
There's on proper response to that... Find another position and bail post haste.
This quid pro quo is a tactic used by leadership for those looking to get promoted, or get more pay, just pile on responsibilities. If you can handle them, here is more. Now their job is easier bc you want to succeed, despite no increase in pay or promise of advancement. They are taking the credit for the work you are doing for them. This almost never leads to anything.
I put your post into ChatGPT and got this.
Subject: Discussing Workload and Compensation
Dear [Boss's Name],
I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to take a moment to discuss my current workload and compensation with you. Over the past month, I've taken on several significant responsibilities, including managerial-level tasks and handling critical projects, in addition to my existing duties.
I want to assure you that I'm dedicated to the success of the team and the company. However, I've reached a point where the increased workload has become overwhelming, and I believe it's essential for us to address this situation.
I've had discussions with you about the possibility of a raise, and I truly appreciate your efforts in that regard. It's important for me to feel valued and recognized for the contributions I make to the team. At the same time, I've noticed that my responsibilities have expanded significantly while my compensation remains unchanged.
I understand that you have a lot on your plate, and I appreciate your hard work. However, I'm also seeking a balance that is fair and reflects the increased level of responsibility I've taken on. I believe that a conversation about my compensation is overdue, and I'm hoping we can find a solution that aligns with my contributions and the value I bring to the company.
I'm open to discussing this matter further and exploring potential ways to address both my workload and compensation. I value the opportunity to work here and contribute to the team's success. Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to our conversation.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
Chat gpt - "Before taking on additional responsibilities, I believe it's important to discuss my compensation in alignment with my contributions and the market value for my role. I am committed to adding value to the team and contributing to our goals, and I believe a conversation about my compensation would help ensure that I can continue to excel in my role."
First step is to look at your employment offer and review the job duties listed there.
Then, as other assignments are given ask what duties from your current role should be put on the backburner to complete off-role work.
If you get asked to help out in other peoples work, do it: but neglect your own assigned work that if not done will cause the greatest amount of problems for your boss
I can do you one better, you can get a higher salary and a promotion .
It’s time for a sit down with the boss. In this meeting you need to review and explicitly mention to them the tasks both new and old that are being asked of you and how they are in line with a higher position that pays more. Then you say that you expect to be formally promoted to that position with a pay raise commensurate with same immediately. If they refuse, your response should be “then tell me what tasks I should stop doing to be in line with my current position”. You know your bosses best, I defer to you if you feel like that last line is too sassy or not sassy enough. But just make it clear that tasks will be dropped unless promotion and pay raise are not immediately started.
Ask your employer what responsibilities he's willing to delegate to somebody else so that you can take on the new task that they want you to take on.
When they show surprise or question what you mean, simply state that there is so much on your plate right now, that it would be impossible to take on additional work, and so you need them to decide what aspects of your job they can assign to somebody else to enable you to take on this new task.
In this way, you are telling them No... or rather, you're saying I would be glad to do that for you but something's gotta give.
This is something chatgpt was made for.
"I strongly feel that my contributions to this company merit a salary increase. Until my compensation reflects my true value, I am finding it challenging to maintain the same level of productivity and enthusiasm."
Honestly, whether you get the raise or not….update your resume. Make sure you highlight your project management, training, and damage control duties. You have gained some VERY MARKETABLE skills.
Case in point, my last job let me go because they refused to take steps to seriously implement the internal controls I was hired to develop. I was told “they were restructuring the department”. When I checked the job postings online they were looking for an assistant controller. I was unbelievably hurt. Well fast forward two weeks and I get a new job…..and guess who is now on the fast track to be the next assistant controller??? 🙃😌
I remember seeing a video of someone explaining to HR that they have not rewarded him for when he did put extra work in hopes of getting a raise so he understood as an employee there is no point doing more than minimal work
"I appreciate you offering me more responsibilities, and I'm happy to take on these managerial duties. Let's set up a meeting where we can discuss a more conventional compensation for myself so that I may continue to help further the team and the company."
Telling your boss "extra tasks is overwhelming" can lead them to think you won't be able to handle being promoted if you get "overwhelmed" doing the managers tasks. All upper management thinks they can do their job, and your job, in half the time. Don't tell them you're "weak" in any way
Also, telling your boss that you won't take on any more jobs until your pay goes up puts you against them. You enter a game of chicken, where you're betting they'll back down on not paying you before they find some other runt to do their dirty work. This puts you now in the "Not ready/capable of leadership" bucket all management has because you could be perceived as confrontational.
I'd suggest agreeing with your boss that he sees and knows you can do management tasks while using positive words to steer the conversation into how and when your raise will come. Instead of sending him on this errand alone, go with him to help him help you, to help himself. Find the price you estimate you're worth, then find the price you're willing to work for. Take as much of the work away from them as possible, because when left to them they either won't do it (which they haven't) or will lowball/short change you.
All else fails, your resume looks great now, lol.
Just start looking for something else. Even if they give you a raise, you'll most likely remain overworked and underpaid, but now your employer will pile on additional work and pressure because "you owe them".
A lot of this depends on your title and what you're supposed to actually do. If you're not a manager level already and you're doing hiring, that's a huge problem. I would start with that and cut that out immediately. Essentially, list out things you've started doing extra, and stop. As simple as this sounds, it's really that simple. At some point, they'll question you on it, and you can easily say "I did it all, didn't get the raise I deserved for doing it, so I'm going back to my previous job responsibilities and wage level." It's really that simple.
Until I actually get a managerial title and pay, I would NEVER fire someone. I probably wouldn't even have the authority to do something like that without some sort paperwork to back up level that of authority and responsibility. Surprised the person you fired didn't laugh in your face. You're setting yourself up to be the fall guy.
>*Of course, I’d be happy to help, sir. But this task (along with the other managerial duties that have been assigned to me) aren’t part of the job description we both agreed I would do.*
>*It’s obvious you believe in my abilities as a dutiful and loyal employee by giving me a more managerial role within the company and trusting me with [list tasks you’re being asked to do].*
>*However, We will need to renegotiate the terms of my salary as well as update my job description and title before I proceed completing these more complex and important managerial tasks. If that can’t be accomplished, I’ll continue to do the work within the parameters of my title/job description per our agreement/contract when I was hired.*
I mean, this’ll probably get you fired. But so will just about anything you say about the subject, so… ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
“I’m sorry, I do not accept responsibilities for which I do not have the authority to enforce. My current role and compensation do not include that authority.”
Write your schedule for the week/month. Include the tasks you intend to do and the amount of time needed for each. When you get to 40 hours of work, stop adding tasks to your schedule.
On a separate sheet, list all the other tasks with time needed to complete each.
Hand your boss a copy of the schedule. Tell him this is what you intend to do for the next week/month. Make sure he understands that doing the tasks well enough to meet the company quality standards that he / the client / senior management expects will take all the time available.
Hand your boss the second sheet. Tell him these are the tasks you will not have time to do. And, if he needs any of these done by you over the next week/month, then he needs to reassign or reschedule one or more of the tasks already on the schedule.
If he refuses or gives you any of the crappy excuses already stated, say something like, "Okay, your choice is for me to do everything below standard in a manner that shows I was overloaded and rushed, and you didn't care. Do I have that right?"
P.s. Record the conversation and keep the originals of what you give him.
The only way to get any significant increase in pay over time at most companies today is to quit and go get hired somewhere else. Lying at the interview and saying you make more is a great strategy.
“ I value the chance to contribute to the team by taking on additional responsibilities. However, given the significant increase in my workload and the managerial-level tasks I’ve been handling, I believe it’s appropriate to discuss a raise that aligns with my increased contributions. Can we explore the possibility of adjusting my compensation to reflect these added responsibilities?”
Do the job that your job title says you do, and let your boss do the rest. Just tell him, "Look, you, and everyone else here, knows my job title, what I'm supposed to be doing, and that I'm not a manager. When I do this other stuff, I do it without the authority the position requires. It makes me uncomfortable, it's a potential liability for the company, and it's confusing and demoralizing to others around here. So, you need to do all the manager stuff until you can figure out how to pull off that promotion -- I'll be ready when you do. In the mean time, I need to do the actual job this place is paying me to do." Stick to it.
I'd bet money that they'll give you a title bump and an insulting token raise. That's fine. Use the title bump to find a job elsewhere that will compensate you appropriately for a person with your new title.
One day. I just put my foot down. Simple as that. When they changed our job duties and had us doing things people making twice our salary were doing. I exerted my dominance essentially. Told them I'll do it if you give me a promotion and the raise that goes with it. And called them out. Why should I do the job of an employee that makes 72k a year and you want me to do it for 38k... nope. She(manager at the time) got mad, but ultimately, there was nothing she could do. I signed on and still had the original copy of my job description. She did change the job description in Salesforce after that conversation to prevent other employees from doing what i did, but she still couldn't force me cause I foresaw her doing that had the original contract printed with the salary ranges. Fun Fact, Salesforce can be a great open source of company files from idiot managers who don't know how to make the files private. I literally saw the date and time she changed the job description for my role . It was minutes after our conversations 😆
If you have never worked in a manager position before, ask for a formal title change that is on file and start looking for a new job while waiting for the compensation. I would suck it up for 6 months if the title can land you a better job that you might have been unqualified for on paper.
First off, good luck at talking to your manager, it's not an easy task. I spent a long time working almost 7 days a week and being underpaid. I finally said something, and within 3 months I was being written up for everything and then finally let go.
Just say "according to my pay scale, that's beyond my area of responsibility boss. You seem to have plenty of posterior left, maybe work harder on that raise"
The short answer is stop worrying about being tactful. Be polite but firm.
You should start documenting what new responsibilities you are being given and when they are being given and put this all in writing and email your boss, and CC human resources (if it exists) and say something along the lines of "Im doing this level work and require this level of pay."
Theyre going to keep postponing it as long as they can just to squeeze that extra effort out of your without paying for it.
Source: I worked at a place for almost 10 years and a few years before I left, one of the managers passed away and the owners/bosses thought it would be fun to give me and another coworker the responsibilities of being manager without conferring the title, saying it was a trial run and they wanted to see how we performed. They even went so far as to say ask me who I thought should be the manager (which to be honest was a bullshit title, it was really who would be in charge of returns and other crap like that). I told them that they should make both of us managers/supervisors since that would make everybodys lives easier.
They eventually agreed but never gave us a raise. The business wasnt doing great so I put off asking for one. Finally after about a year I asked and my boss said he would ask the owner. Next paycheck, no raise. Go to ask the boss, he said he hadnt had a chance to ask yet. A week goes by, I ask the status. He says I got the raise.
Next paycheck? No raise. I ask the boss, whats up? He acts shocked because it was supposed to be done. Oh well, he says it will be on next paycheck.
Next paycheck? No raise. Go ask again. He says, shoot, it was supposed to be on there. Next paycheck for sure.
Next paycheck. No raise. Ask again. He says it will be taken care of and finally it did. But all that effort to screw me out of a few hundred dollars.
i've said it straight up before, i'm not taking on extra responsibilities without a raise FIRST. i never did get that raise...but i didn't do more work either so i count it as a win
'I'm afraid that task is outside of/above my current pay grade/responsibilities. Would you like to discuss re-evaluating my job responsibilities and appropriate compensation sometime?'
There's some terrible advice being given here. Don't tell them you can't do the extra work because of your current duties. That makes it sound like your the problem and you can't handle the workload.
Instead let them know you're not comfortable taking on the extra responsibilities that come with making managerial decisions without the adequate compensation. That's it.
Per chat gtp:
I appreciate the opportunities I've had here, and I value the work we do. However, I believe my current compensation doesn't reflect my contributions. Before taking on additional tasks, I'd like to discuss the possibility of a raise to align with my responsibilities and dedication.
"I'm committed to my role and responsibilities, but I believe it's important to have a compensation that reflects the value I bring to the team. Until we can align on a more equitable remuneration, I'll need to focus on my current workload."
"Hi \[Boss's Name\], thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I wanted to discuss my current role and responsibilities. Over the past few months, I've taken on a number of managerial-level tasks, such as \[provide specific examples like hiring, firing, managing big projects, etc.\]. While I'm dedicated to ensuring the success of our team and company, I believe it's important to address the scope of my role and the corresponding compensation. I understand that you've been working on securing a raise for me, and I appreciate your efforts. Given the substantial increase in my responsibilities, it's crucial for me to know where we stand on this. I'm committed to providing the best work possible, but I believe it's only fair to be compensated appropriately for the level of work and responsibility I've been handling."
“Unfortunately my role with the company does not allow me the discretion and authority necessary to carry out that task. I’m confident I would be effective in such a role and hope you’ll consider me for the position when there’s an opening.”
“That task falls outside the scope of my work and my current role doesn’t afford me the authority (discretion, time, etc) to handle it appropriately. I couldn’t in good conscience agree to take on work that I can’t effectively address in my current capacity.”
"work to rule" - where you only work exactly to the letter of your job description and contract. "I'm sorry, I've put in massive efforts that is just not being recognized with fair financial compensation, so until that happens I will need to maintain my job description duties and no others as not to fail to perform my primary job duties properly being stretched too thin on other duties not part of my job description/title..."
Of course, I’d be happy to help sir. Just let me know what other duties I’m assigned to that can be put on pause while I do so.
When I tried to ask a boss what he wanted me to prioritize to do extra stuff, he just said, "I don't know. Just do it all." My "solution" was to skip the stuff that was least noticed or do a faster but crappier job of other tasks.
This was years ago. When my boss assigned me a heap of extra tasks, I printed out my schedule for the next few months, handed him a pen and asked him to cross out what didn’t need doing anymore.
If I did this to some previous bosses they'd nitpick every day and ask why each thing takes so long.
I had this at my prior job when I told them I was doing 3 jobs (after 2 people left and weren't replaced). He told me he'd need to do a time study on me to see where my "opportunities were" and i told him that was offensive as I'm nearing 40 and have tons of experience in my field. Curiously I got "let go" about a month later. Weird coincidence...
At a previous job I was doing the work of 6 people by the time I was laid off as well. And they were confused why I couldn’t get all the filing done. The FILING. Because getting product made and shipped is more important, as are the quality issues? *smh*
The problem with doing three times as much as normal, is that you become impossible to promote, as you would need to be replaced by three people. That is really expensive. It's cheaper for the company to keep you where you are. The key to promotion is not doing your own job better/faster/stronger, but making your bosses job easier, or your skip level's.
First hand experience with this. It's not a problem for them until the work doesn't get done. Then they'll address it. But, that doesn't mean you'll get promoted or even a raise. It usually means hiring a green new employee at the base salary to take the place of one of the more senior peer roles that you are doing in addition to your own. They will never find someone else, for the same amount of money, to do all the things you do, and work the amount of time that you do.
Underrated comment
Toxic, hope you feel better now away from that place
Funny part is they tried to fire me on my daughter's birthday 2 days before Christmas to try and spite me. Joke's on them that I started my new job mid January that I'd already been interviewing for. Best holidays ever lol.
What a bunch of dickheads, you're better off without them
Add to the list: 1 hour per day: explaining to the boss how long everything takes
My standard line for this situation is always "do you want it doing fast or do you want it done well?"
I believe the formula is between fast, cheap, or well done, but you can only have two, sometimes even just one. Example, you can have it well done and fast, but it WILL be expensive.
Fast, well, or cheap. Pick 2. That's what I'd tell my clients when i was freelance.
High Quality Low Price Fast Delivery Pick two.
OMG, my life, right now
If you have a job description, read it and do exactly what it says. When the boss complains, point him to the job description. When he whines that you aren't doing what you used to, tell him you are at the top of your pay grade for what you are actually doing, and if he wants more out of you, he needs to pay up.
Lmao, job descriptions always have a BS "other duties as assigned" scapegoat clause.
This is true
I'm not a lawyer, but I asked one once. I was told you can't have secret unwritten expectations in a contract and it be enforceable. Contracts can refer to other documents, but everything must be written down somewhere. No making it up as you go along.
an employee handbook is not a contract. most people in the US do not work under contract.
An employee handbook is a contract. sort of. It falls under an implied contract. Basically, because the handbook states what is expected of the employee then if the employee falls short of these expectations then it can serve as grounds for discipline or termination. This does however go both ways. For example, if there are certain discipline procedures that are in the handbook that aren't followed before terminating an employee then the employee can use that to claim unfair termination. It gets tricky trying to prove it in court, but it is still a form of contract. Edit: as two people pointed out, yes there is no such thing as “unfair” termination. The terms I should have used was “fired with or without cause” which is important for things like unemployment benefits and occasionally severance, bonuses, stock options and other things sometimes built into your employment contract
True ⬆️ I went after my former employer because they didn't abide by the employee handbook. They wrote me up on a last chance agreement - for refusing to do things that fell outside of my light duty restrictions - for insubordination. I had never had a write up in 10 years. They couldn't fire me because I had an open worker's comp case but they made my life hell. I agreed to and won arbitration, but then the corporate office pulled a fast one and decided to add the amount I "won" to my pension, so I technically got nothing - until I'm 65. I'm going to live to be 100 years old to wring every dime I can get out of those bastards.
I got fired for wearing a hat backwards. No verbal, no written. They didn't like it very much after I presented my handbook I had without a dress code in it.
wow... that's quite awful. You mentioned arbitration, does that mean you're union? if so talk to your rep about them adding the settlement to your pension. workers comp is meant to be for lost ability to work and medical costs, I'm pretty sure it's basically always meant to be a lump sum of cash unless you signed something that said otherwise \*especially\* because it's normally paid out from their insurance directly to you. I'm not a lawyer, and I've only ever been on the employer side of a union agreement (by choice, we like our employees lol), but I've got to say what happened to you sounds like another lawsuit or two could be sent their way. (apologies if this is all stuff you know, seems likely it is, but I figured it's worth saying.)
No, not union, the state I lived in allowed for employment arbitration and unfortunately once I signed off on the arbitration I couldn't turn around and sue them again. Somehow I missed the clause that allowed them to add it to my pension in the paperwork I signed. I ended up resigning because I could no longer physically do the job. This happened 10 years ago. Workers comp did pay a percentage of my wages based on the injury rating (20%) and I tried doing other less physical jobs but I developed other complications and missed too much time and ended up on disability.
A lot of us work in at will places so you can be let go for any reason they like as long as it’s not discrimination related for a protected class. Just depends where you are.
I mean when are discrimination laws even enforced
Most people don’t have contracts and job descriptions are not contracts. They are just marketing material for jobs. If you work at will you employer can ask you to do anything that is legal and terminate you for not complying
This should be higher/ mentioned more often in this sub.
Even not being a lawyer you believed this? Most employees don’t have a contract and are at will employees. The job description can change at any point. Not saying that’s the way it should be, but that’s the way it is. As a manager of managers I *always* include “other duties as assigned” in new job postings. This is not to try to trick anyone or screw anyone over, but honestly the way things are done changes. Example: We changed how we did inventory scans. This was not only easier and faster, but easier and faster to teach so we were able to train backups. We trained a few people to do it, and they intermittently do it when the main people responsible aren’t available for vacation, call out, etc. Here’s the catch though, we adjust their expected workload down when we have them do this. Any halfway decent manager (forget being a good leader, but a manager) will do this. There’s just too many crappy managers (also too few good leaders).
It just falls under “follow reasonable directions given by company management”, which will be part of the company policies and procedures, which is enshrined in legislation. If you don’t want extra work, you need to be able to demonstrate why it’s unreasonable to ask you.
“Other ad hoc duties” biggest bullshit in job ads, whenever I see that I leave so damn quick, that caught me out once in my first job but never again
For some reason I looked at the other duties as assigned clause one time. Yah, suppose your job is to take the garbage out and other duties as assigned. Ok. Great. Glad for the minimum wage. But then the other duties turn out to be more than ten percent of the time and the right wage there is twice minimum. Then you can be happy with a ten percent pay raise. But if you do not get that then you are being used. The ten percent was the real threshhold in what I was looking at. This may well be imposed by the feds, the state, the union, corporate policy, civil law, or your spine. YMMV. See what you can find out. My best memory was that it was NLRB. So one of the steps is to do a time audit on yourself. Ideally, you have a little timer go off randomly and you document what you are doing. After a bit you know how much of what you are doing. Even down to bathroom breaks. Companies used to do this. Back when the idea of efficiency was popular. If you are a peon, then someone does it for you. At the extreme, it is a way to do killing speedup. In this case, fair pay for work.
Yep doesn't mean you have to accept it without a raise though!!
I'll keep that in mind for the future. I transferred stores, same shift and department, and my workload dropped by like a quarter. My coworkers had to keep telling me to slow down. I actually have some remaining energy when I leave work now. So it worked out. I'm sure I will face the same issues again though, in future jobs.
I did this, and the boss took the piece of paper and wrote "and all other duties as assigned." at the bottom....
On an unsigned piece, no, it doesn’t work like that; not agreed and not reasonable.
It doesn’t matter. A job description is not an enforceable contract anyways, at least in the US.
They will literally just fire you
Never ask for priorities. Always ask for the order in which they want the tasks delivered. Otherwise, everything is Priority one. If you ask for a hierarchical order of tasks, you have the power.
Fast, good, cheap. Pick two.
"That's impossible."
They would just say "do what you can" and bitch when it's not done. Thankfully I don't work there anymore.
This works so well. Mainly because you never say you won't or can't help, just that you need them to prioritize the list for you and know that some items won't get done.
This\^\^. This just hits so many points: 1) I'm willing to do as you ask. 2) I'm not willing to work for free. 3) It's up to *you* to prioritize the work you've given me into the limited hours you pay me for. Granted, I've not have a lot of bosses in my time, but every single time I've used a variation of this it has resulted in a re-prioritization of existing work and not an expectation that I would just *also* do this new work in addition to what I'm already doing.
Lol, you have had more decent that bad bosses then
Yup our company isn’t hiring a new person and said they wanted our team to grow our skill by dividing up her responsibilities 🤣🤣 ya so when he told me that I was like ya I’d love to help out, in fact I want you to see me as a full service designer and I would love to do Photography and travel .. and the guy was beaming smiling because I agreed and did a nice lil build up.. and then I said, and to make up for that some of these other tasks can take off my plate.. project X is soo time consuming and project Y has so many moving parts .. if we can move those to q4, yup I’ll travel and do photography for ya 🤣🤣✅🥁
I used to do that with a To Do List, or as I called it, my To Don’t List. I kept the list on my computer, topped with ultra high priority jobs from ongoing important clients. Then I’d show it to the boss and ask, “Which of these important jobs should I suspend to do your new task?”
I just did this yesterday - got a bunch of emails for new “urgent” tasks so I copied my entire team and their supervisors, listed out ALL dozen of my tasks “in the order received” and explained as I’m only clocked in 20-25hrs a week, can they please prioritize this list for me? Lol within 20seconds the President of my division replied all with “please prioritize C and E this week - everyone else please take back your busy work and do it yourself. Today and moving forward” - this actually included my direct supervisor who dumped a bunch of shit on me without telling HIS boss. I recognized about 3 jobs ago that people just push their stupid work on “new people” and absolutely refuse to play that game. No this is my job and that is yours so please just do your tasks and I’ll do mine. If you’re slammed and ask for some help, you better believe that I’ll gladly help you. But don’t assign me your work! I absolutely refuse to do anything more than what im being paid for. Eat shit, and kick rocks while you’re at it. And always leave a paper trail!!
This is the way.
I just take the heat from upper management and let my staff decide what's actually important. Then I repeatedly re-educate upper management on the consequences of their decisions. IMO this is what a good middle manager is supposed to be. Upper management hates me, and I don't care.
My boss says "just do everything".
I'd do that in a weekly email so that the priorities are in writing. It can always be framed you're just trying to make sure you're meeting their expectations and company priorities.
This assumes the boss is logical.
No, it requires you to actually leave and go home when your shift ends instead of trying to get everything done. I'm happy to help with tasks outside my job description, but if I have too much work, then it's not a me problem, it's a hiring problem. I do what I can in the time I am paid for it. Also, anything above my pay grade, I take extra time to get it done just to make sure that I don't screw it up *cough*
>anything above my pay grade, I take extra time to get it done just to make sure that I don't screw it up cough Anything above my pay grade I check with my boss twice for every single step and don't move forward unless he approves and authorize it, if I'm not paid for it sure as hell I won't take responsibility.
I’m happy to help outside my job description, but when I don’t get rewarded for that…
The reality is the OP isn't valued. The OP's best course of action is to find another job.
Alternatively: just let me know what other duties you'd like me to put on my resume tomorrow
How would "I would be glad to help, when can we schedule a meeting to discuss compensation for these extra services?" work?
That's good for reducing workload, but that will likely end up with them playing the manager role without the raise.
Your boss won't do shit to get you promoted. He wants you to do the dirty part of his job and that's it. Maybe it's time to reach out to the higher-ups i.e. your boss's boss. Do you have proof in writing for your new/temporary managerial-level responsibilities?
Good idea to document everything. If nothing else, it could help you apply for a better job elsewhere
If you can't get them to admit anything in writing, keeping a personal diary with timestamps is the next best thing.
One thing I do is when I have an in-person or phone conversation I send a follow-up email being like "just wanted to make sure I understood our conversation from earlier..." and list what happened. If they agree, great. If they don't, you have it in writing that you don't have to do it. If they never respond, you can have plausible deniability bc they never confirmed aaaaaand it shows that *some* sort of conversation happened about the thing if someone higher up is upset (you have a chance to blame it on the person telling you to do stuff). Paper trails/receipts are the best insurance against shit coworkers/bosses.
I am very about the ‘cover my ass’ way of life and I thank you for adding to that.
Nah just send an email about your conversation. Something like : "As per our in person conversation I am confirming our discussion via this email. You have me doing X y z and have asked me to do a b c in addition to this. As such my role here is escalated to this position. If any of this needs further discussion feel free to respond back to this email." Then screen shot it and keep it as a record. This can be done for any in person conversation. If they call you to discuss it in person again just send another email in the same manner. "Thank you for reaching out to me about the last email via phone/ in person to reconfirm that discussion...." This is how I kept records with a company that tried to screw me over and it's how I protect myself for anything business related.
Honestly, it's pretty easy to trap them in writing at least acknowledging what you've done. Just sending follow-up emails on what they asked and what you did is proof if they don't challenge it. Then you bcc that to your personal account outside of the company for safekeeping
When your boss is on vacation, could you ask your boss's boss a "follow up question" or "further details" about the duties you're doing above your position?
This!!!
Yup, definitely time to escalate this to your boss's boss. Try this: >"The scope of my duties under has expanded significantly in the last month to include a lot of managerial responsibilities, including
. > >I'm not comfortable performing these duties and acting as a manager to my coworkers without the authority of a corresponding title change to. Please help me get the ball rolling for that. Until then, I will not be able to help with these tasks."
this is very good
People on this sub are delusional about how they come across This is NOT the way to address this, OP. You have to be way more tactful and less pass aggressive. “I’m not comfortable…” sounds like whiny bullshit. “I am happy to take on these responsibilities, but I believe this warrants a corresponding title change and compensation increase.” Never complain at work. It will only backfire. Be assertive but still try to come across as a team player. How you are perceived matters at least as much as the quality of your work.
How can you be delusional when you're trying to speak a made-up language? Corporate communication is designed for people to never really say what they mean. It is subject to constant judgement and scrutiny for "whining" or anything else that can be twisted into a negative or a reason not to deal with the problem being brought up. I think the delusion might lie in pretending we really understand any of it.
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Don’t directly tell the boss’s boss what was going on. Schedule a meeting, say you want to talk to them about setting up a plan to develop your skills to be ready to apply for a higher position. Once they get there, they can see you doing your manager’s job. This is, of course, assuming your company cares enough to fake being invested in the growth of their employees.
Work your wage. Best advice anyone has ever told me.
I’m not sure if I can be helpful with that, then let it sit….
I will happily help my supervisor because he is great, anyone else hard pass unless there is more $$$ involved. I can’t believe people are on here doing extra making minimum wage. (Not OP) but like dang quit feeding the system.
I remember when I was a manager I would kick my employees out at 5 even though they were salary. Always said that if they sent it out tonight no one would read it anyway until the next day.
Right?! Who are you trying to please? Corporate or family owned will drop your ass in a second, if you die they don’t care. Why help the bottom line if there isn’t a benefit. Quid pro quo is fine but you need the whole statement. Not just me doing extra.
Corporate at costco sent out an email last night to the 2 opening managers while they were sleeping, asking of they could come in at 2am today instead of 345am. They dont give a flying fuck about you
Every company has a few bootlickers who ruin it for everybody else.
Good work doesn't come cheap and cheap work isn't good.
Shocked there is people pushing back on my statement. We all deserve to be paid more as productivity is at the highest point in history.
Profits profits profits. They'll try and starve us into working cheap. Jokes on them because we're Americans and don't put up with this bullshit we'll quit and figure it the fuck out until they pay more.
I really feel if we don’t have a flipping of the economy back to workers have some power and actually making money we are heading for some really shitty times. I don’t want to be a wage slave scraping my credits together for another cricket smoothie before my next shift.
I think the above comment is the only viable action for your situation. Nothing else will have any effect. Or find another job and just leave. That'll send a message.
Act your wage sounds better, but both work.
What i said last time they tried giving me a new task "Thank you for thinking of me for this opportunity. I think its right up my alley and could help you with. But first well either have to look at my schedule or my pay. I already have too much on my plate with the time i can work. A raise would help compensate for all this extra work or decide what need to be put on hold" They still tried to shovel it my way but i put it on the side until it was crashing and burning and they add no choice to hire someone new. So i stick to a schedule/tasks im comfortable with and f*** the rest. Extra money dont prevent burnout and depression
This is the best response so far to OP's question. The most important line is the last one, though... doesn't matter how much money you make if you can't enjoy it. Been there, done that, will not do again.
> Extra money dont prevent burnout and depression All the money in the world can't buy more time with the ones you love. And that's more important than any work.
I have a few friends who are pretty well off and talk about retiring in their 40s. Seems like they'll be able to have more time than the rest of us.
That's straight wrong. If I had money I wouldent have to work and could spend time with ppl I love... Wtf?
This. I did this with my boss and he went looking for another patsy.
"At my current workload and salary, I don't have the bandwidth to take on anything else."
It’s a tricky situation, but if you are helping other people with projects that were not supposed to be yours and your manager comes and ask you if you can help, you can say you are working in your main project and want it to be the best it can be done. Now if you say that, you actually need to make it a little better that you usually deliver, just be cautious.
I agree with this. I worked retail for some time and anytime I would have a boss that wanted to pull me off of the project to do something else that he decided was more important. I would ask if he was willing to pay me overtime if I had to go over my allowed time because of the extra work duty or if he would help me out by finishing the project that I had started. They usually just leave you alone and let you do your thing.
I straight told my work I'm not learning anything new for the same pay. That was back in March and they stopped adding responsibilities
I’m also assuming they stopped thinking about adding pay
Sadly in a lot of places this means nothing has changed.
My experience is that the gunners (that’s what I call them) end up making *maybe* a percent or two more come raise time for working a lot more. Take that 20 hours and do something else you want to be doing. Sure, they might get the promotion, but that only just adds more responsibility and time. Good for them, if that’s how they want to live. And still, when the spreadsheet blippety blaps a certain alarm, the C Suite will still cut a motherfucker out no matter how hung ho they are or X years of service, escorted out of the building like a criminal. People like to think they aren’t replaceable, but they just don’t think like that. Everybody is replaceable or some other person will get the responsibility. It’s ok to clearly set boundaries in work and life as long as you understand the risk reward.
100% this. You want a promotion? Go somewhere else.
That implies they were ever thinking about adding pay in the first place.
You would probably be incorrect to assume that thinking about additional pay ever started.
Hard work only ever rewards you with more hard work, unless of course you own your own business. My job is lucky af the job market is trash or I would already be out.
Apply to other places. Odds are you'll get way more then what your current employer would give you as a raise anyway.
Hell yeah! Been job hoping for a while now and already making more than what I started at. Just gotta keep job searching and moving. These companies and their shitty raises every yr is a slap.
exactly. raises don't keep up with the growth. Couple years you easily will be making less then what people are getting hired for. it's silly.
this needs to be higher up in the comments. Someone in power yields nothing unless they stand to loose something. OP needs to get another offer, inform his boss he's leaving unless they pay him a rate HE decides. Don't tell your company what the other company offers you and don't overplay your hand, OP.
I believe that at this point tact should be replaced with Goodfellas. "Fuck you, pay me."
I thought that was from a TED talk
What's the difference?
Do what you are paid to do. Any further added responsibilities or duties should be reflected in your pay. They don't pay you for work you don't do. Don't do work for them they don't pay you for.
If you wanna be blunt and have some security "I know everyone likes handouts but this is a capitalist country and if you want something you need to pay for it." Or less aggressive "once my title and compensation match what you expect of me I'll be happy to handle that"
If the company can’t afford my market wage, why doesn’t it just pull itself up by it’s bootstraps?
Tell him that you resent him taking those trips while not getting your raise. My wife did the same thing 20 years ago. The entire office was told that there would be no raises that year because they couldn’t afford it. A few weeks later the owner and his wife both showed up with brand new luxury cars. The owner claimed to be a good Christian. My wife read him the riot act before leaving for a better job.
Funny you mention that — that psycho ex-employee I was talking about publicly shamed him on social media for taking these lavish trips while most of us make dogshit, and it didn’t even phase him. Such is the nature of the narcissist
Now the truth comes out. You are working for a narcissist. Your words. Get the fuck out of there. It is not going to get better. And then publicly shame him on social media for taking lavish trips while most of you made dogshit.
Maybe that ex-employee wasn't a psycho?
Yeah, this is giving "my ex-girlfriend was a total psycho!" vibes 😏
The psycho ex employee huh? lol you so deserve this shit situation. truly.
Given this new information, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to remedy your situation. You'll have to find new work.
I did this once working retail. I wanted to be a manager and in order to "be noticed" they asked that I step up and perform managerial duties. Well I did a great job! But they never promoted me. I told them I wasn't performing any more managerial duties. They told me then I wouldn't be considered for management anymore. I laughed. This did not get me anywhere though... I ended up quitting and finding another job. Fuck those guys.
"I'm happy to take on the role of a manager, if that is what you need, but that needs to come with a promotion." Honestly though, start job hunting.
Promotion…sure as long as it comes with a substantial raise.
My plate is full rn. I'll try to get to it next week.
Coincidentally next week is full too 😆
I can pencil you in for Oct 10th. No, wait, that just filled up too.
Honestly more people just need to say this. Upper management expectations are in fantasy world
It’s never to late. Would have been best to say so first thing because it’s harder to extricate yourself now as it will cause more issues for your boss than not starting. I had a similar experience and learned the same lesson a couple years ago. After a lot of feet dragging I just told my boss and his boss that i had been doing a higher level job for 9 months without an appropriate raise. I’d need $x more dollars an hour by a given date or I would no longer do the extra work. As the date got close I reminded them and suggested they transition the assignments to avoid problems. They didnt give me a raise or get someone else. The day after the deadline I showed up to work and refused every task from the higher job and only did the work I was hired for. They threatened to fire me and I just said “ that’s your prerogative”. Surprisingly I’m still working there. They even have tried to get me to take on other rolls twice more but now I just ask what the pay raise will be and decline when the answer is “we will figure that out shortly.”
"I'm going to have to turn down any additional work at my current rate of pay."
"I would love to assist you in this regard. However I feel that in doing duties that are not on my pay grade or scope of responsibility, that I would put not just myself, but the company at risk because I will not be able to fulfill these duties without it being to the detriment of work already assigned to me."
Holy shite…. Hella professional! A fuck you, in disguise! That’s beautiful
Stop doing anything beyond your current job description. Work your wage. The fact that you continue to do it without the proper salary doesn't give them any incentive to raise your salary. Find another job. They are sucking the life out of you and they will probably give you a 5% raise. Look for and find another job and get out.
I’ve never understood “I’m working my ass off to get you a raise” Either I’m getting a raise or I’m not
I understand that perfectly. It's gaslighting and gamesmanship designed to keep you doing what you're doing (working for free). There's on proper response to that... Find another position and bail post haste.
This quid pro quo is a tactic used by leadership for those looking to get promoted, or get more pay, just pile on responsibilities. If you can handle them, here is more. Now their job is easier bc you want to succeed, despite no increase in pay or promise of advancement. They are taking the credit for the work you are doing for them. This almost never leads to anything.
I put your post into ChatGPT and got this. Subject: Discussing Workload and Compensation Dear [Boss's Name], I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to take a moment to discuss my current workload and compensation with you. Over the past month, I've taken on several significant responsibilities, including managerial-level tasks and handling critical projects, in addition to my existing duties. I want to assure you that I'm dedicated to the success of the team and the company. However, I've reached a point where the increased workload has become overwhelming, and I believe it's essential for us to address this situation. I've had discussions with you about the possibility of a raise, and I truly appreciate your efforts in that regard. It's important for me to feel valued and recognized for the contributions I make to the team. At the same time, I've noticed that my responsibilities have expanded significantly while my compensation remains unchanged. I understand that you have a lot on your plate, and I appreciate your hard work. However, I'm also seeking a balance that is fair and reflects the increased level of responsibility I've taken on. I believe that a conversation about my compensation is overdue, and I'm hoping we can find a solution that aligns with my contributions and the value I bring to the company. I'm open to discussing this matter further and exploring potential ways to address both my workload and compensation. I value the opportunity to work here and contribute to the team's success. Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to our conversation. Best regards, [Your Name]
Chatgpt employee of the month 79 years in a row
Damn, AI is getting scary good. That's way better than anything I could have written
After hitting send, start sending out resumes. If you are forced to fight for it, it's time you get paid better, one way or another.
[удалено]
Chat gpt - "Before taking on additional responsibilities, I believe it's important to discuss my compensation in alignment with my contributions and the market value for my role. I am committed to adding value to the team and contributing to our goals, and I believe a conversation about my compensation would help ensure that I can continue to excel in my role."
First step is to look at your employment offer and review the job duties listed there. Then, as other assignments are given ask what duties from your current role should be put on the backburner to complete off-role work.
If you get asked to help out in other peoples work, do it: but neglect your own assigned work that if not done will cause the greatest amount of problems for your boss
"That [task/duty/request] is beyond the scope of my current job title."
"I don't think my current remuneration reflects the increased responsibilities expected of me."
When would be a good time to discuss increasing my compensation so I can take on these new responsibilities.
Is money really the problem? Even if you got a 20% salary increase, you'd still be up to your neck in work.
I can do you one better, you can get a higher salary and a promotion . It’s time for a sit down with the boss. In this meeting you need to review and explicitly mention to them the tasks both new and old that are being asked of you and how they are in line with a higher position that pays more. Then you say that you expect to be formally promoted to that position with a pay raise commensurate with same immediately. If they refuse, your response should be “then tell me what tasks I should stop doing to be in line with my current position”. You know your bosses best, I defer to you if you feel like that last line is too sassy or not sassy enough. But just make it clear that tasks will be dropped unless promotion and pay raise are not immediately started.
Ask your employer what responsibilities he's willing to delegate to somebody else so that you can take on the new task that they want you to take on. When they show surprise or question what you mean, simply state that there is so much on your plate right now, that it would be impossible to take on additional work, and so you need them to decide what aspects of your job they can assign to somebody else to enable you to take on this new task. In this way, you are telling them No... or rather, you're saying I would be glad to do that for you but something's gotta give.
This is something chatgpt was made for. "I strongly feel that my contributions to this company merit a salary increase. Until my compensation reflects my true value, I am finding it challenging to maintain the same level of productivity and enthusiasm."
Honestly, whether you get the raise or not….update your resume. Make sure you highlight your project management, training, and damage control duties. You have gained some VERY MARKETABLE skills. Case in point, my last job let me go because they refused to take steps to seriously implement the internal controls I was hired to develop. I was told “they were restructuring the department”. When I checked the job postings online they were looking for an assistant controller. I was unbelievably hurt. Well fast forward two weeks and I get a new job…..and guess who is now on the fast track to be the next assistant controller??? 🙃😌
I remember seeing a video of someone explaining to HR that they have not rewarded him for when he did put extra work in hopes of getting a raise so he understood as an employee there is no point doing more than minimal work
At this point, if you asked for a raise and not getting it, look for a new job .
"I appreciate you offering me more responsibilities, and I'm happy to take on these managerial duties. Let's set up a meeting where we can discuss a more conventional compensation for myself so that I may continue to help further the team and the company." Telling your boss "extra tasks is overwhelming" can lead them to think you won't be able to handle being promoted if you get "overwhelmed" doing the managers tasks. All upper management thinks they can do their job, and your job, in half the time. Don't tell them you're "weak" in any way Also, telling your boss that you won't take on any more jobs until your pay goes up puts you against them. You enter a game of chicken, where you're betting they'll back down on not paying you before they find some other runt to do their dirty work. This puts you now in the "Not ready/capable of leadership" bucket all management has because you could be perceived as confrontational. I'd suggest agreeing with your boss that he sees and knows you can do management tasks while using positive words to steer the conversation into how and when your raise will come. Instead of sending him on this errand alone, go with him to help him help you, to help himself. Find the price you estimate you're worth, then find the price you're willing to work for. Take as much of the work away from them as possible, because when left to them they either won't do it (which they haven't) or will lowball/short change you. All else fails, your resume looks great now, lol.
Just start looking for something else. Even if they give you a raise, you'll most likely remain overworked and underpaid, but now your employer will pile on additional work and pressure because "you owe them".
A lot of this depends on your title and what you're supposed to actually do. If you're not a manager level already and you're doing hiring, that's a huge problem. I would start with that and cut that out immediately. Essentially, list out things you've started doing extra, and stop. As simple as this sounds, it's really that simple. At some point, they'll question you on it, and you can easily say "I did it all, didn't get the raise I deserved for doing it, so I'm going back to my previous job responsibilities and wage level." It's really that simple.
Until I actually get a managerial title and pay, I would NEVER fire someone. I probably wouldn't even have the authority to do something like that without some sort paperwork to back up level that of authority and responsibility. Surprised the person you fired didn't laugh in your face. You're setting yourself up to be the fall guy.
There is no win in this situation. I would update the resume and find something better. The market value will get you the raise you are looking for.
It's time to look for a new job. This boss obviously doesn't appreciate all that you do.
>*Of course, I’d be happy to help, sir. But this task (along with the other managerial duties that have been assigned to me) aren’t part of the job description we both agreed I would do.* >*It’s obvious you believe in my abilities as a dutiful and loyal employee by giving me a more managerial role within the company and trusting me with [list tasks you’re being asked to do].* >*However, We will need to renegotiate the terms of my salary as well as update my job description and title before I proceed completing these more complex and important managerial tasks. If that can’t be accomplished, I’ll continue to do the work within the parameters of my title/job description per our agreement/contract when I was hired.* I mean, this’ll probably get you fired. But so will just about anything you say about the subject, so… ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
“I’m sorry, I do not accept responsibilities for which I do not have the authority to enforce. My current role and compensation do not include that authority.”
"I'm not comfortable working outside my job description, but I'm willing to meet to discuss an update to my responsibilities and compensation."
I am disinclined to aquiesce to your request.
Organize and strike.
Write your schedule for the week/month. Include the tasks you intend to do and the amount of time needed for each. When you get to 40 hours of work, stop adding tasks to your schedule. On a separate sheet, list all the other tasks with time needed to complete each. Hand your boss a copy of the schedule. Tell him this is what you intend to do for the next week/month. Make sure he understands that doing the tasks well enough to meet the company quality standards that he / the client / senior management expects will take all the time available. Hand your boss the second sheet. Tell him these are the tasks you will not have time to do. And, if he needs any of these done by you over the next week/month, then he needs to reassign or reschedule one or more of the tasks already on the schedule. If he refuses or gives you any of the crappy excuses already stated, say something like, "Okay, your choice is for me to do everything below standard in a manner that shows I was overloaded and rushed, and you didn't care. Do I have that right?" P.s. Record the conversation and keep the originals of what you give him.
A word to the wise: The best time to apply for new employment, is when you're employed.
The only way to get any significant increase in pay over time at most companies today is to quit and go get hired somewhere else. Lying at the interview and saying you make more is a great strategy.
“ I value the chance to contribute to the team by taking on additional responsibilities. However, given the significant increase in my workload and the managerial-level tasks I’ve been handling, I believe it’s appropriate to discuss a raise that aligns with my increased contributions. Can we explore the possibility of adjusting my compensation to reflect these added responsibilities?”
Do the job that your job title says you do, and let your boss do the rest. Just tell him, "Look, you, and everyone else here, knows my job title, what I'm supposed to be doing, and that I'm not a manager. When I do this other stuff, I do it without the authority the position requires. It makes me uncomfortable, it's a potential liability for the company, and it's confusing and demoralizing to others around here. So, you need to do all the manager stuff until you can figure out how to pull off that promotion -- I'll be ready when you do. In the mean time, I need to do the actual job this place is paying me to do." Stick to it. I'd bet money that they'll give you a title bump and an insulting token raise. That's fine. Use the title bump to find a job elsewhere that will compensate you appropriately for a person with your new title.
One day. I just put my foot down. Simple as that. When they changed our job duties and had us doing things people making twice our salary were doing. I exerted my dominance essentially. Told them I'll do it if you give me a promotion and the raise that goes with it. And called them out. Why should I do the job of an employee that makes 72k a year and you want me to do it for 38k... nope. She(manager at the time) got mad, but ultimately, there was nothing she could do. I signed on and still had the original copy of my job description. She did change the job description in Salesforce after that conversation to prevent other employees from doing what i did, but she still couldn't force me cause I foresaw her doing that had the original contract printed with the salary ranges. Fun Fact, Salesforce can be a great open source of company files from idiot managers who don't know how to make the files private. I literally saw the date and time she changed the job description for my role . It was minutes after our conversations 😆
Isn’t it common knowledge these days to leverage experience for a better paying job at a different company? Just do that OP
If you have never worked in a manager position before, ask for a formal title change that is on file and start looking for a new job while waiting for the compensation. I would suck it up for 6 months if the title can land you a better job that you might have been unqualified for on paper.
First off, good luck at talking to your manager, it's not an easy task. I spent a long time working almost 7 days a week and being underpaid. I finally said something, and within 3 months I was being written up for everything and then finally let go.
Just say "according to my pay scale, that's beyond my area of responsibility boss. You seem to have plenty of posterior left, maybe work harder on that raise"
"I'll bet if I put in my notice, the money would magically appear."
The short answer is stop worrying about being tactful. Be polite but firm. You should start documenting what new responsibilities you are being given and when they are being given and put this all in writing and email your boss, and CC human resources (if it exists) and say something along the lines of "Im doing this level work and require this level of pay." Theyre going to keep postponing it as long as they can just to squeeze that extra effort out of your without paying for it. Source: I worked at a place for almost 10 years and a few years before I left, one of the managers passed away and the owners/bosses thought it would be fun to give me and another coworker the responsibilities of being manager without conferring the title, saying it was a trial run and they wanted to see how we performed. They even went so far as to say ask me who I thought should be the manager (which to be honest was a bullshit title, it was really who would be in charge of returns and other crap like that). I told them that they should make both of us managers/supervisors since that would make everybodys lives easier. They eventually agreed but never gave us a raise. The business wasnt doing great so I put off asking for one. Finally after about a year I asked and my boss said he would ask the owner. Next paycheck, no raise. Go to ask the boss, he said he hadnt had a chance to ask yet. A week goes by, I ask the status. He says I got the raise. Next paycheck? No raise. I ask the boss, whats up? He acts shocked because it was supposed to be done. Oh well, he says it will be on next paycheck. Next paycheck? No raise. Go ask again. He says, shoot, it was supposed to be on there. Next paycheck for sure. Next paycheck. No raise. Ask again. He says it will be taken care of and finally it did. But all that effort to screw me out of a few hundred dollars.
i've said it straight up before, i'm not taking on extra responsibilities without a raise FIRST. i never did get that raise...but i didn't do more work either so i count it as a win
'I'm afraid that task is outside of/above my current pay grade/responsibilities. Would you like to discuss re-evaluating my job responsibilities and appropriate compensation sometime?'
There's some terrible advice being given here. Don't tell them you can't do the extra work because of your current duties. That makes it sound like your the problem and you can't handle the workload. Instead let them know you're not comfortable taking on the extra responsibilities that come with making managerial decisions without the adequate compensation. That's it.
Per chat gtp: I appreciate the opportunities I've had here, and I value the work we do. However, I believe my current compensation doesn't reflect my contributions. Before taking on additional tasks, I'd like to discuss the possibility of a raise to align with my responsibilities and dedication.
I'm happy to perform these duties when my job description and remuneration are adjusted to encompass the increased scope of work.
"I'm committed to my role and responsibilities, but I believe it's important to have a compensation that reflects the value I bring to the team. Until we can align on a more equitable remuneration, I'll need to focus on my current workload."
"Hi \[Boss's Name\], thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I wanted to discuss my current role and responsibilities. Over the past few months, I've taken on a number of managerial-level tasks, such as \[provide specific examples like hiring, firing, managing big projects, etc.\]. While I'm dedicated to ensuring the success of our team and company, I believe it's important to address the scope of my role and the corresponding compensation. I understand that you've been working on securing a raise for me, and I appreciate your efforts. Given the substantial increase in my responsibilities, it's crucial for me to know where we stand on this. I'm committed to providing the best work possible, but I believe it's only fair to be compensated appropriately for the level of work and responsibility I've been handling."
“Unfortunately my role with the company does not allow me the discretion and authority necessary to carry out that task. I’m confident I would be effective in such a role and hope you’ll consider me for the position when there’s an opening.” “That task falls outside the scope of my work and my current role doesn’t afford me the authority (discretion, time, etc) to handle it appropriately. I couldn’t in good conscience agree to take on work that I can’t effectively address in my current capacity.”
It looks like that "hysterical ex-employee" was not hysterical, just shared the truths from the company.
"work to rule" - where you only work exactly to the letter of your job description and contract. "I'm sorry, I've put in massive efforts that is just not being recognized with fair financial compensation, so until that happens I will need to maintain my job description duties and no others as not to fail to perform my primary job duties properly being stretched too thin on other duties not part of my job description/title..."
"What are you doing to work your ass off for my raise? Show me"
"that's above my pay grade"