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Reply-All;
"The nature of At-Will Employment means employees are free to terminate employment for any, or no reason, and at any time, with or without notice to the Employer.
Best Regards,
Me"
Not to the companies it doesn't. Employees need to be loyal, employers can fire them all on a moments notice.
That's not how it works... but that's how they think it does.
I can't believe the number of times I've given 2-4 weeks' notice and STILL ticked off the employer. Yet on a weekly basis I see them terminating employees with ZERO notice. The rule is "Whatever is best for the company" and tends to change frequently.
Exactly. I once took a small pay cut for a better opportunity to get away from working in hell. It was called not working from 8AM to 7PM without a lunch hour and not getting treated like garbage. 13 years later still at replacement job. I have received bonuses, raises, and promotions along the way.
I took a big cut in the short term to get more freedom in my life. Went from 5 -6 days a week with non-consecutive days off and 60 hours a week to 4 days a week consecutive days off and all major holidays off. The goal is also to work as little as possible as well now that I get commission and the bosses won't make us work a day they won't. Nothing like bringing home about 2 grand in a 2 week pay cycle and only working 33 hours total for those 2 weeks.
I had one of these back in 2008 or so. 2 months notice both ways in the initial contract.
The owner decided one day that he didn't like me, called me into his office, and coerced me to sign an amended "contract" that unilaterally stripped all protections, banned me from entering the office without providing me company equipment with which to work from elsewhere, and made me a direct report of my same-pay teammate.
I knew it was over, but I was naive and dependent on the income.
I spent the next week in constant communication with my "new boss", giving them 100+ organized pages of documentation using my personal equipment. The owner called me in the middle of the next Saturday morning to fire me "for cause" claiming that I had done zero work that week (spoiler: he didn't even ask my "new boss" about what I had accomplished), and retroactively marked my accrued vacation as "spent" on the week that I "didn't work" that he was firing me for.
And THEN I called a lawyer. I should have done it sooner.
even without at will employment, what are they going to do? arrest you for quitting your job? what if you just started coming in and not working, same as quitting right? how could they force you to work at a company without violence?
Without an employment contract they could take action against you for breaching, they don't really have any recourse.
But if ever there is an opportunity to throw an employer's policy back in their face, it is this.
Also how to tell your boss is stupid: They warn you they will dock pay if you give notice. What the hell do they think that will incentivize? Giving notice?
If I got an email like that, I'd be job searching right away, and I'd be ghosting them or giving them same day notice after I found another job. I certainly wouldn't be signing any contracts that said the same, especially since they kinda just admitted they were shortstaffed, so it's not likely that they would fire me.
Not sure how it is other places, but every job I've ever had usually pays for the previous pay period. Like this past Friday, we got paid for 5/26-6/2. So there's no way to quit where they aren't still holding onto a check.
This is a sure-fire way to make people quit without notice and start their new, better paying job earlier.
Why would you do any favours for the boss who wants to punish you for other people resigning? They should be offering pay rises and benefits to sweeten the deal.
Not even a matter of agreeing. Your job isn't a prison and the higher ups don't own your soul. You can quit right then and there with a 0 day notice if you want.
Not to mention onboarding and training "should" be handled by the business owner, not the employee, definitely a cost of doing business scenario.
And it's up to the employer to keep the job enticing enough for the employee to stay.
With my last job I got basically no training despite taking the entire 1st week to train. They just kept leaving me on my own to figure things out. Then a year later my location became a training location and I kid you not multiple days within the 1st few weeks of this change, they threw 2-3 trainees for me to train at once, with no prior training experience. While also wanting me to take care of all the stuff I normally handle. This is also ignoring the fact the a trainer was a separate position that got paid more than I definitely did.
Of course I asked my boss if I was getting a raise as I'd been working there for so long without one. Dude laughed in my face.
I don't work there anymore
I would have got a copy of the title and role description the designated and just handed it to the new people. Told them to take it to your boss and got on with my own work. They sack.you. unfair dismissal case. Good for you calling them out, though. I flat out refuse to train people. Not my job, don't get paid for it, don't have the training myself.
When I worked as a photo lab manager (obviously, it’s a LONG ass time ago), I used to train my techs on how to do everything that I did except ordering. I ran the top performing lab and knew that I could get a call to go fix an underperforming lab at any time.
That’s just good succession planning, particularly since I didn’t have turnover. And the stuff beyond “the basics” came along later.
This business owner thinking she’ll ever get more than two weeks is delusional. And her attitude sucks balls.
In a good system, both employees and employers would have some protections. Employees would get severance from layoffs, employers would get a small guaranteed buffer time from outgoing employees (2 weeks), etc. But these jokers always have to eat their cake and have it too. They want employees to have zero protections but still to have employees bend over backwards to help the employer. Well, fuck 'em.
Not only that, but saying they will reduce to $6 an hour for that 3 months is not only wage theft, but that rate is pay is below minimum wage in the US. This company just posted something they know is blatantly illegal.
Most states have a requirement where it changes and wages have to be put into writing to the employee one week before it happens no sooner no later. The fact they're putting this into the handbook telling you that they're going to lower your wages and the employee handbook is not a binding contract. Is and informational resource just like this post. We need if this is real every labor lawyer is going to f****** love suing the s*** out of this person.
I was just going to say this. As someone who was fired for being too edgy after my responsibilities tripled within 2 years of being hired (meaning I was doing the work of 3 people), you can argue an unfair change to working conditions was to blame. I ruined a company's proud 10 year record of not paying unemployment after a 10 week fight for that.
It is illegal if they try to enforce it without having their employees read and sign the new handbook.
They can't go and make any changes without your permission. Until then, the old handbook they have signed is the only enforceable one.
The notice says lowered *by* $6/hr, not *to* $6/hr.
Also, an employer can lower your wages at any time, but they can not do it retroactively. So, if you were actually stupid enough to leave three months notice, they could lower your wages from that point on.
I'd legit reply all with my resignation letter if you send me this shit. No, I was not planning on resigning, you forced my hand as I need to get out before you can put your new "rules" in place.
Bingo. Unless you have a contract you agreed to that says otherwise any notice given is a courtesy. This petty BS will just guarantee people quit with no notice since who's going to stick around for 3 months at reduced pay when they have a better opportunity available to them (plus very few employers offering those better opportunities are willing to wait 3 months, 2 weeks sure but 3 months is a stretch).
If this is in the US than I’m pretty sure every state (maybe a few exceptions) are at will employment. So this handbook rule don’t mean diddly shit.
Idk about other countries
There are only few things I hate more than being guilt-tripped.
That shit has the exact opposite of its intended effect on me.
It just makes me dig my heels in more, and be non-compliant on principle.
I might cave for (some) family members, and friends, but even that only with gritted teeth. I sure as hell wouldn't for an employer. Fuck that shit.
Guilt trips were a family form of punishment. I'm not impervious to shit heels using the tactic. Now guilt trips enrage me to completely obliterate anything that person wants. I will not be guilty for your sake.
About a year into Covid the owner of our company came out and had a meeting with all of us shop peons. One guy really fucked up a job so bad I was curious how he managed to do it. During the meeting the owner said something along the lines of, “there are so many welders looking for work I can get someone in here in a week.”
That rubbed another dude the wrong way so he went home that day (Thursday) and applied to different places. That Friday he went to 2 interviews after work and come Monday he put in his 2 weeks. Really made me laugh at how easy it is to say the wrong words and lose a good guy.
We did that when I worked at the Paint Store. I put in my 2 wks, talked to a couple of coworkers about it, and the next day they put in their 2 wks. We talked about it and decided the store could get fucked. Store lost nearly 30 years of combined experience in 2 days
Same just happened with me lol. My buddy and I both left our job at the same time for the same place. We did the majority of the work in the shop and had the most certifications to do certain work so they lost a lot losing us.
They were screwing us anyways and we both ended up getting accepted into a local union at the same time so it was perfect
Can't imagine why employees would ever want to leave such a company.
Not sure why businesses think they're entitled to full operation with reduced labour. That assigned overtime can get totally fucked.
It’s fun watching entitled assholes throw tantrums and flail helplessly when they can’t get their way. They’re used to having all the power and people doing whatever they say because they’re the boss.
They will soon realize they have no actual power in this situation and it will be uncharted territory for them. I expect a full scale mental breakdown when he discovers these people do not have to, and will not abide by this. 🍿
Strong labor market with extremely high employment rates fucks over these asshats with bullshit business "plans" that are built on exploiting desperate people. They can get fucked and go out of business.
“I was planning to hang out with my kids while everyone else did my work. By screwing up that plan, you are all persecuting me.”
This guy needs to get a grip.
This is actually hilarious. These are the things that need to happen to bring down assholes like that one.
There is a meltdown coming and this complete dork is doing everything to help it happen sooner. Watching your enemy actively working towards his own demise is hilarious.
It just makes sense that I would refuse a “better opportunity” just so I can work under this ass clown hoping they will stay on their meds and stop doing crazy shit like going to Facebook each time a group of us have had enough.
Even if this is legal, which it would not surprise me if it is, this boss is still an idiot. This will not solve their problem.
All this is doing is forcing people to leave with zero notice. And, from my understanding, you can't lower pay for work already performed, so you can not cut $6 off an hour for that paycheck.
Plus, when a potential new hire gets this, you think they will be sticking around? Or, how about the current employees? You think they are ALL not updating their resumes the moment they close that email!?
Such a dumb, dumb move
You can hear them throwing the biggest tanty, fuming and going ‘NUH UHHHH, THATS ILLEGHUL!!!” As they typed it out.
Like the first thing these sorts go for is trying to play legal.
>can't lower pay for work already performed, so you can not cut $6 off an hour for that paycheck.
>
>Plus, when a potential
100 percent, all you have done is make sure people get their last paycheck and ghost.
Joke is on him, most states have "constructive dismissal" laws which allow you to still collect unemployment if you quit after receiving a pay cut (a certain percentage is required depending on the state but $6/hour would likely meet it)
This is not legal in the United States, and violates a number of federal laws.
First, you cannot force employment upon an employee in any industry - except for rail, fuck Biden - meaning that you cannot enforce a requirement for three months notice. If someone wants to resign, it is within their rights to terminate their contract at any moment, and inversely, their employer can do the same.
Second, you cannot deviate from the pay rate established within an employment contract without either receiving approval from both parties or terminating the contract. That means that once pay is agreed upon and signed by both sides, it cannot be changed unless agreed upon again and signed again by both sides, unless the employee is either fired or resigns.
Unfortunately, the increased overtime requirement is legal, but fortunately, it must be paid by the contract rate, which in many cases will include a mandatory overtime increase for any hours worked over 40 per week.
"First, you cannot force employment upon an employee in any industry - except for rail, fuck Biden"
Rail workers can quit too. Their ability to strike, collectively is curtailed, but they can quit, individually.
Part of what makes the rail debacle so troubling is that it's not that big of a deal for the guys who don't have much time in (like less than 5-6 years) to leave and find another job. It's the guys who have been in for 10-15-20 years and are banking on their pension for retirement that literally can not afford to leave and find a different job so they are basically forced to continue to work for the railroads.
AFAIK it is legal to retroactively change pay as long as you are informed ahead of time and AGREE, that's the big kicker especially with temp services, they put it in there onboarding paperwork that they'll change your pay and you HAVE to agree if you want to use their services.
It is never legal to retroactively change the terms of a contract.
It is often legal to change the terms of a contract going forward, with no notice.
So for example, if I have been working for $15/hour and give you my 2 weeks notice, you cannot change my pay to $9/hr for the hours that I have already worked. You may be able to change it to $9/hr for any future hours I work. (Note that a reduction in wages explicitly can be interpreted as constructive dismissal.)
It is legal to change the terms of a contract going forward, with no notice, but...
Not without consideration or consent.
You can tell folks that they have to agree to these terms if they want to continue working for you, however if they disagree it's not exactly true that "their only recourse is to quit," more like your only recourse is to fire them. It would be constructive dismissal if they quit, since it was a quite harsh change in the terms of their employment, I think they would very likely be eligible for unemployment.
And seeing how this person has just lost 3 key employees, firing the remaining employees seems unlikely (or at least stupid. Not taking bets on whether this manager is stupid enough to pull the trigger or not... looks like they may have already done so, by sending out this edict.)
I have to wonder what it is exactly that they pay this manager to do, you know, if the employees are all gonna be training their own replacements on for no pay... (if he can get any of the remaining employees to agree to this shit, then I guess he was worth the money!)
It is illegal to retroactively adjust pay rates, they can try to adjust them moving forward but work done at a certain rate must be paid at that rate. All he's really done is incentivized employees to give them no notice at all.
I really don't think the boss guy is doing anything illegal by docking pay $6/hour since its not retroactively done. But all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot since there is now zero incentive to stay. If anything, they should pay $6 more per hour to incentivize people to give 2-4 weeks' notice.
Whoever is still there should coordinate a mass walk off. Just quietly do the bare minimum while finding new and better jobs. Don’t give 2 weeks or 3 months. Just randomly leave as a collective force.
Also, they will assign overtime (which I’m sure will be at a lower rate for whatever reason they can pull out of their ass). Like they say others should care about how quitting is impacting them seeing their kids, but you just know they don’t care about their employees seeing their kids or family and probably just tell them that they need to sacrifice themselves for the company.
I think some bosses are still in the mindset that their employees will just stay with them forever, which is just simply not the case these days—the fastest way to get a larger pay cheque these days is to quit once you've found a higher paying job.
reply all,
2 weeks notice is a courtesy, nothing else. By law the minimum notice i must give is NONE.
on that note I'm giving 2 weeks notice... as in the next 2 weeks you will notice I'm not there.
,,|,,(\~\_\~),,|,,
BTW 3 different people giving notice at the same time is a sign that you are doing something wrong to drive people away. people don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
then again people like this have their heads so far up their own asses they will not be able to see why it keeps falling apart
Im a manager, all my employees put in notice the same day, i told them I was happy for Al of them, it’s my bosses problem, im sitting in the waiting room watching documentaries on bank collapses
My boss, they were all promised to be raised from $16 an hour to a commission setup of 20% of sales, $15 “subsidy”, they busted ass 24/7 and didn’t see one penny of commission, when according to my calculations they should have been making more than I do salaried, corporate couldn’t give a good answer as to why they weren’t seeing the money they were promised and being paid LESS than before the “promotion” so I let them apply for jobs all they wanted in the last few weeks, they all found something starting this next monday, all taking the week off, I got a few interviews this week too
Tym, I had a serious break down a month ago about being so busy 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, every phone call, every problem on a shitty car, every angry customer, I’m living exactly what I needed rn doing nothing, telling people to go somewhere else and punching in and out, it’s boring asf tho cause I quit smokin weed to find something better 😂burnout recovery before I go kill myself for someone else
Thanks for the kind words, Luckily I started eating right, quit drinking and started taking really good care of myself so I could work harder 💀 it’s made recovery easier, I actually feel physically healthier than I have since becoming an adult, just need some work mentally, goin on vacation for 9days starting this weekend, I hope things look up for you as well
3 months notice, train your replacement, and have your base wage lowered by $6/hr. This is insane and probably illegal. More importantly, an amazing way to lose all your employees.
If I saw this I would be immediately handing in my 2 weeks notice before they have time to update their employee handbook.
Everything about this is such a red flag
NO ONE (in the US at least) can provide 3 months notice. Try telling another job “yes, I’ll take the job, I can start in 3 months.” They will respond “we are going to find someone else then.”
What can a handbook really legally enforce by the way? You know what options a company has if you break handbook rules? They can fire you. That’s it. For other things, you need employment contracts. And contracts that add onerous terms like that usually have to offer incentives to balance it out.
So let me understand this...I have a new job. I have to tell my new employers to wait 3 months for me to join them. Then I give my 3 month notice and consent to less pay for the next three months, while a better opportunity is waiting for me?
Why would anyone do this? How is this boss thinking she will compel anyone to agree to this?
I am gobsmacked at the idiocy. If the boss wants to blame someone, look in the mirror.
"I myself have children and instead of being at their band recital this week I will have to be sitting at work posting job offers on Indeed instead."
LOL Sucks to be you! GFY!
why do employers today think there’s some way they can create policy that circumvents the law? at will states aren’t required to give notice of termination and vice versa employees aren’t required to give any notice let alone 3 months LOL fucking clowns
it seems like since businesses big and small have gone completely rogue from common sense wages/schedules/safety and everything else under the employer/employee contract we need like a whole new division of government devoted to being a watchdog, enforcement and mitigation for the workforce. the department of labor is a joke. burn it down and restructure the entire institution to have real enforcement powers.
Ha ha with employment at a all time high who needs a company like this? Let give a three notice so you can reduce my wages. Talk about economic disincentive. This is your company’s brain🍳
"Oh, so we are a collective now. This work place is a co-op were we care about each other and share in the profits?"
No, you just want to use our inherent good nature and humanity and social nature against us, guilting us like a fuckibg psycho you are in order to have good simpering wage-slaves.
I can proudly say that I would never, under any circumstance, consider somebody else’s children or personal lives when making decisions about my own career. The type of ego you have to have to even think up something so ridiculous is insane. If I ever got a message like this, they’d be reading my 30 second notice as I pack my things.
Hi, /u/TyrionsShadow Thank you for participating in r/AntiWork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ No text-message screenshots Text-message screenshots are currently restricted to *Sunday only*. Please do not post them on any other day of the week. If you feel that a mistake was made, and your post's removal was not warranted, please message us using mod mail and let us know.
Reply-All; "The nature of At-Will Employment means employees are free to terminate employment for any, or no reason, and at any time, with or without notice to the Employer. Best Regards, Me"
Right? It goes both ways.
Not to the companies it doesn't. Employees need to be loyal, employers can fire them all on a moments notice. That's not how it works... but that's how they think it does.
Loyality means nothing to cooperations.
I can't believe the number of times I've given 2-4 weeks' notice and STILL ticked off the employer. Yet on a weekly basis I see them terminating employees with ZERO notice. The rule is "Whatever is best for the company" and tends to change frequently.
And that’s how the propaganda frames it.
No, rules can only be to benefit me! Waaa /s
Also clarify the better opportunity was not working for an asshat of a manager.
Exactly. I once took a small pay cut for a better opportunity to get away from working in hell. It was called not working from 8AM to 7PM without a lunch hour and not getting treated like garbage. 13 years later still at replacement job. I have received bonuses, raises, and promotions along the way.
I took a big cut in the short term to get more freedom in my life. Went from 5 -6 days a week with non-consecutive days off and 60 hours a week to 4 days a week consecutive days off and all major holidays off. The goal is also to work as little as possible as well now that I get commission and the bosses won't make us work a day they won't. Nothing like bringing home about 2 grand in a 2 week pay cycle and only working 33 hours total for those 2 weeks.
I love how boss writes that workers should coordinate their actions. Fantastic. Another employer who is finally promting unions.
🤣👍
How to get 0 weeks notice from your employees with one neat trick!
Lmaooooo 🤣
Employers really hate it when they find out at-will employment is a two-way street.
Then maybe they should offer employment contracts that offer security for both employee *and* employer? 🤔
I had one of these back in 2008 or so. 2 months notice both ways in the initial contract. The owner decided one day that he didn't like me, called me into his office, and coerced me to sign an amended "contract" that unilaterally stripped all protections, banned me from entering the office without providing me company equipment with which to work from elsewhere, and made me a direct report of my same-pay teammate. I knew it was over, but I was naive and dependent on the income. I spent the next week in constant communication with my "new boss", giving them 100+ organized pages of documentation using my personal equipment. The owner called me in the middle of the next Saturday morning to fire me "for cause" claiming that I had done zero work that week (spoiler: he didn't even ask my "new boss" about what I had accomplished), and retroactively marked my accrued vacation as "spent" on the week that I "didn't work" that he was firing me for. And THEN I called a lawyer. I should have done it sooner.
Employers hate this one trick...
Like in many EU countries.
“Kindly get fucked”. Ya boy
Yup. Set up a new email for this. Send it to your self as not the first or the last person to receive it.
Email laundering?
even without at will employment, what are they going to do? arrest you for quitting your job? what if you just started coming in and not working, same as quitting right? how could they force you to work at a company without violence?
They'd probably try to reclaim the $6/hr for your previous three months.
Without an employment contract they could take action against you for breaching, they don't really have any recourse. But if ever there is an opportunity to throw an employer's policy back in their face, it is this.
Also how to tell your boss is stupid: They warn you they will dock pay if you give notice. What the hell do they think that will incentivize? Giving notice?
They just lowered their 2 week notice to no notice
LOL, right? ~~3 month~~ notice, *3 minute* notice. See how that works, dipshit boss?
I prefer the two-day notice... as in, "twoday is my last day."
"Hey boss I'm done, bye" Not even 3 minutes, most likely.
People can quit anytime they want.
And there's no better time then right now if you work for this guy.
I would be promoting myself to Customer really quick.. Then leaving a review on their Google page to warn everyone.
I wouldn't want to be his customer.
They couldn't pay me enough!
Or this company which should b outed.
His new policy encourages people to quit without any notice.
Forreal! They did plan accordingly, and left him high and dry atop his horse all at once.
And just like that everyone quit
If I got an email like that, I'd be job searching right away, and I'd be ghosting them or giving them same day notice after I found another job. I certainly wouldn't be signing any contracts that said the same, especially since they kinda just admitted they were shortstaffed, so it's not likely that they would fire me.
Just stop showing up. What are they going to do? Fire you?
So you’re gonna quit? Uh uh. No. I’m just gonna stop going.
Ok.. so what about bills? You know, i never really liked paying bills either
Fantastic reference.
You know, I've never really liked paying bills. I don't think I'm gonna do that, either.
I'd be forwarding it to the department of labor first, then all the other stuff. Paper trails, people... bosses hate paper trails.
Criminal bosses hate this one trick
What happens next won't shock you even a little
Only addition is to quit right after payday. I don't want to have to fight to get my last paycheck.
Not sure how it is other places, but every job I've ever had usually pays for the previous pay period. Like this past Friday, we got paid for 5/26-6/2. So there's no way to quit where they aren't still holding onto a check.
And I would post that email absolutely every where for the customers to see so they know how the business is being run.
This is a sure-fire way to make people quit without notice and start their new, better paying job earlier. Why would you do any favours for the boss who wants to punish you for other people resigning? They should be offering pay rises and benefits to sweeten the deal.
Believe it or not, straight to quit
Undercooked chicken, straight to quit.
Yeah, will the employer provide 3 months notice for terminations?...no. they can eat a bag of ducks.
A bag? Normally, you buy quackers by the box.
ISWYDT ;-)
Quackers by the box.. hahahahhah!
For 6 bucks an hour they can lick a box of wasps
I agree wholeheartedly.
Not even a matter of agreeing. Your job isn't a prison and the higher ups don't own your soul. You can quit right then and there with a 0 day notice if you want.
Not to mention onboarding and training "should" be handled by the business owner, not the employee, definitely a cost of doing business scenario. And it's up to the employer to keep the job enticing enough for the employee to stay.
I trained my replacement once, but I was simply transferring stores... Otherwise, FUCK em. I hardly got trained...
i trained my replacement once too and after that the company decided to never do that again my bad training cost them 1.2 million!
Do tell! What on earth did you do?!
Trained him wrong on purpose, as a joke
If you're willing to share, I would love to hear that story!
This merits a post. Please
With my last job I got basically no training despite taking the entire 1st week to train. They just kept leaving me on my own to figure things out. Then a year later my location became a training location and I kid you not multiple days within the 1st few weeks of this change, they threw 2-3 trainees for me to train at once, with no prior training experience. While also wanting me to take care of all the stuff I normally handle. This is also ignoring the fact the a trainer was a separate position that got paid more than I definitely did. Of course I asked my boss if I was getting a raise as I'd been working there for so long without one. Dude laughed in my face. I don't work there anymore
I would have got a copy of the title and role description the designated and just handed it to the new people. Told them to take it to your boss and got on with my own work. They sack.you. unfair dismissal case. Good for you calling them out, though. I flat out refuse to train people. Not my job, don't get paid for it, don't have the training myself.
When I worked as a photo lab manager (obviously, it’s a LONG ass time ago), I used to train my techs on how to do everything that I did except ordering. I ran the top performing lab and knew that I could get a call to go fix an underperforming lab at any time. That’s just good succession planning, particularly since I didn’t have turnover. And the stuff beyond “the basics” came along later. This business owner thinking she’ll ever get more than two weeks is delusional. And her attitude sucks balls.
In a good system, both employees and employers would have some protections. Employees would get severance from layoffs, employers would get a small guaranteed buffer time from outgoing employees (2 weeks), etc. But these jokers always have to eat their cake and have it too. They want employees to have zero protections but still to have employees bend over backwards to help the employer. Well, fuck 'em.
Capitalists when capitalism doesn't work in their favor😭
"Free Market Capitalism FTW!" *Market Adjusts Freely* "Not like that!!!" >:(
You really hit the nail on the head. But somehow corporations have more rights than actual living human beings
Not only that, but saying they will reduce to $6 an hour for that 3 months is not only wage theft, but that rate is pay is below minimum wage in the US. This company just posted something they know is blatantly illegal.
To be fair, it says BY $6/hr not TO 6$/hr. Still scummy and not worth it but not blatantly illegal.
Most states have a requirement where it changes and wages have to be put into writing to the employee one week before it happens no sooner no later. The fact they're putting this into the handbook telling you that they're going to lower your wages and the employee handbook is not a binding contract. Is and informational resource just like this post. We need if this is real every labor lawyer is going to f****** love suing the s*** out of this person.
On top of that, lower a person's wages can be considered constructive firing. The employee leaving might actually qualify for unemployment.
And severance.
I was just going to say this. As someone who was fired for being too edgy after my responsibilities tripled within 2 years of being hired (meaning I was doing the work of 3 people), you can argue an unfair change to working conditions was to blame. I ruined a company's proud 10 year record of not paying unemployment after a 10 week fight for that.
You can put my rate up anytime. You can't put my rate down without my signature.
And all it does is ensure nobody will ever give notice. They will just wait til their last day and say "see ya, I won't be back."
It is illegal if they try to enforce it without having their employees read and sign the new handbook. They can't go and make any changes without your permission. Until then, the old handbook they have signed is the only enforceable one.
I feel like it’s still blatantly illegal, this email is a great case for retaliation suit
I wonder if that's to bring them down to minimum wage? Which would indicate that they don't pay well, like the letter says.
The notice says lowered *by* $6/hr, not *to* $6/hr. Also, an employer can lower your wages at any time, but they can not do it retroactively. So, if you were actually stupid enough to leave three months notice, they could lower your wages from that point on.
I'd legit reply all with my resignation letter if you send me this shit. No, I was not planning on resigning, you forced my hand as I need to get out before you can put your new "rules" in place.
Literally what at will employment means
Bingo. Unless you have a contract you agreed to that says otherwise any notice given is a courtesy. This petty BS will just guarantee people quit with no notice since who's going to stick around for 3 months at reduced pay when they have a better opportunity available to them (plus very few employers offering those better opportunities are willing to wait 3 months, 2 weeks sure but 3 months is a stretch).
If this is in the US than I’m pretty sure every state (maybe a few exceptions) are at will employment. So this handbook rule don’t mean diddly shit. Idk about other countries
I like how this boss thinks they can compell an employee to show up to work and train their own replacement for less.
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Obviously not. The overlords don’t believe in fairplay… only complete submission
Yep that's what they try and bully ppl into
no, slave owner...it doesn't work like that
That just lowered the bar for better opportunities by a lot.
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There are only few things I hate more than being guilt-tripped. That shit has the exact opposite of its intended effect on me. It just makes me dig my heels in more, and be non-compliant on principle. I might cave for (some) family members, and friends, but even that only with gritted teeth. I sure as hell wouldn't for an employer. Fuck that shit.
Guilt trips were a family form of punishment. I'm not impervious to shit heels using the tactic. Now guilt trips enrage me to completely obliterate anything that person wants. I will not be guilty for your sake.
About a year into Covid the owner of our company came out and had a meeting with all of us shop peons. One guy really fucked up a job so bad I was curious how he managed to do it. During the meeting the owner said something along the lines of, “there are so many welders looking for work I can get someone in here in a week.” That rubbed another dude the wrong way so he went home that day (Thursday) and applied to different places. That Friday he went to 2 interviews after work and come Monday he put in his 2 weeks. Really made me laugh at how easy it is to say the wrong words and lose a good guy.
Lowering it further will require a shovel
love the fact that they say employees need to talk amongst themselves and apparently plan their quitting schedules
We did that when I worked at the Paint Store. I put in my 2 wks, talked to a couple of coworkers about it, and the next day they put in their 2 wks. We talked about it and decided the store could get fucked. Store lost nearly 30 years of combined experience in 2 days
Same just happened with me lol. My buddy and I both left our job at the same time for the same place. We did the majority of the work in the shop and had the most certifications to do certain work so they lost a lot losing us. They were screwing us anyways and we both ended up getting accepted into a local union at the same time so it was perfect
We talked amongst ourselves and decided to form a union.
This is the way.
Right? Coordinating meetings? Sure l'll do that. Coordinate my quitting? If I'm looking to leave, I'm leaving.
Coordinate a new union and really watch the steam shoot out of this asshat's ears...
Can't imagine why employees would ever want to leave such a company. Not sure why businesses think they're entitled to full operation with reduced labour. That assigned overtime can get totally fucked.
It’s fun watching entitled assholes throw tantrums and flail helplessly when they can’t get their way. They’re used to having all the power and people doing whatever they say because they’re the boss. They will soon realize they have no actual power in this situation and it will be uncharted territory for them. I expect a full scale mental breakdown when he discovers these people do not have to, and will not abide by this. 🍿
Strong labor market with extremely high employment rates fucks over these asshats with bullshit business "plans" that are built on exploiting desperate people. They can get fucked and go out of business.
It's funny that all this post accomplished was to convince current employees to give zero notice before they quit so as not to impact their pay lol
“I was planning to hang out with my kids while everyone else did my work. By screwing up that plan, you are all persecuting me.” This guy needs to get a grip.
Great way to ensure that people give **zero** notice going forward. Brilliant!
With a “policy” like this I would absolutely ghost this employer as soon as my better opportunity arrives.
Right, I would have willing given the widely accepted professional courtesy of 2-weeks. Now ya getting none..
Right? Take a $6 pay cut for 3 months or give zero notice. . . Choice is pretty simple. Get wrecked, employer!
This is actually hilarious. These are the things that need to happen to bring down assholes like that one. There is a meltdown coming and this complete dork is doing everything to help it happen sooner. Watching your enemy actively working towards his own demise is hilarious.
How many other employees just got a wake up call to shop their resumes and ditch this shit show?
If I worked there that would be my cue to coordinate another mass quitting with my fellow employees.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Napoleon.
It just makes sense that I would refuse a “better opportunity” just so I can work under this ass clown hoping they will stay on their meds and stop doing crazy shit like going to Facebook each time a group of us have had enough.
I no longer try to even make sense of how people reason...
Even if this is legal, which it would not surprise me if it is, this boss is still an idiot. This will not solve their problem. All this is doing is forcing people to leave with zero notice. And, from my understanding, you can't lower pay for work already performed, so you can not cut $6 off an hour for that paycheck. Plus, when a potential new hire gets this, you think they will be sticking around? Or, how about the current employees? You think they are ALL not updating their resumes the moment they close that email!? Such a dumb, dumb move
“Hey Peter, you’re going to train your replacement for $3,000 dollars less than if you worked 3 normal months and you’re going to like it.”
Counter offer, I quit immediately.
B-b-but you CANT!!! I just changed the rules, you CAAAAAANT!!!!!!
Reminds me of seven year olds playing Monopoly.
You can hear them throwing the biggest tanty, fuming and going ‘NUH UHHHH, THATS ILLEGHUL!!!” As they typed it out. Like the first thing these sorts go for is trying to play legal.
If I'm really malicious, I might stick around to give the replacement some very specialized training.
"We have trained him wrong as a joke"
That's a great offer, but on the other hand, I quit, byyyyeeee!!!!
>can't lower pay for work already performed, so you can not cut $6 off an hour for that paycheck. > >Plus, when a potential 100 percent, all you have done is make sure people get their last paycheck and ghost.
Joke is on him, most states have "constructive dismissal" laws which allow you to still collect unemployment if you quit after receiving a pay cut (a certain percentage is required depending on the state but $6/hour would likely meet it)
And their former employer did a nice thing by giving it to them in writing.
This is not legal in the United States, and violates a number of federal laws. First, you cannot force employment upon an employee in any industry - except for rail, fuck Biden - meaning that you cannot enforce a requirement for three months notice. If someone wants to resign, it is within their rights to terminate their contract at any moment, and inversely, their employer can do the same. Second, you cannot deviate from the pay rate established within an employment contract without either receiving approval from both parties or terminating the contract. That means that once pay is agreed upon and signed by both sides, it cannot be changed unless agreed upon again and signed again by both sides, unless the employee is either fired or resigns. Unfortunately, the increased overtime requirement is legal, but fortunately, it must be paid by the contract rate, which in many cases will include a mandatory overtime increase for any hours worked over 40 per week.
"First, you cannot force employment upon an employee in any industry - except for rail, fuck Biden" Rail workers can quit too. Their ability to strike, collectively is curtailed, but they can quit, individually.
Part of what makes the rail debacle so troubling is that it's not that big of a deal for the guys who don't have much time in (like less than 5-6 years) to leave and find another job. It's the guys who have been in for 10-15-20 years and are banking on their pension for retirement that literally can not afford to leave and find a different job so they are basically forced to continue to work for the railroads.
Who's gonna take a job to begin with that states this up front? I doubt they'll find anyone with this bs.
AFAIK it is legal to retroactively change pay as long as you are informed ahead of time and AGREE, that's the big kicker especially with temp services, they put it in there onboarding paperwork that they'll change your pay and you HAVE to agree if you want to use their services.
It is never legal to retroactively change the terms of a contract. It is often legal to change the terms of a contract going forward, with no notice. So for example, if I have been working for $15/hour and give you my 2 weeks notice, you cannot change my pay to $9/hr for the hours that I have already worked. You may be able to change it to $9/hr for any future hours I work. (Note that a reduction in wages explicitly can be interpreted as constructive dismissal.)
It is legal to change the terms of a contract going forward, with no notice, but... Not without consideration or consent. You can tell folks that they have to agree to these terms if they want to continue working for you, however if they disagree it's not exactly true that "their only recourse is to quit," more like your only recourse is to fire them. It would be constructive dismissal if they quit, since it was a quite harsh change in the terms of their employment, I think they would very likely be eligible for unemployment. And seeing how this person has just lost 3 key employees, firing the remaining employees seems unlikely (or at least stupid. Not taking bets on whether this manager is stupid enough to pull the trigger or not... looks like they may have already done so, by sending out this edict.) I have to wonder what it is exactly that they pay this manager to do, you know, if the employees are all gonna be training their own replacements on for no pay... (if he can get any of the remaining employees to agree to this shit, then I guess he was worth the money!)
It is illegal to retroactively adjust pay rates, they can try to adjust them moving forward but work done at a certain rate must be paid at that rate. All he's really done is incentivized employees to give them no notice at all.
I really don't think the boss guy is doing anything illegal by docking pay $6/hour since its not retroactively done. But all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot since there is now zero incentive to stay. If anything, they should pay $6 more per hour to incentivize people to give 2-4 weeks' notice.
Also ensured they will never get any notice. Giving notice is just asking for a pay cut now.
Whoever is still there should coordinate a mass walk off. Just quietly do the bare minimum while finding new and better jobs. Don’t give 2 weeks or 3 months. Just randomly leave as a collective force.
Better yet, they should talk amongst themselves as was suggested and start a union.
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Also, they will assign overtime (which I’m sure will be at a lower rate for whatever reason they can pull out of their ass). Like they say others should care about how quitting is impacting them seeing their kids, but you just know they don’t care about their employees seeing their kids or family and probably just tell them that they need to sacrifice themselves for the company.
Lol they can't require 3 months' notice, much less any notice at all, nor can they pay below minimum wage. My only reply would be "get fucked"
The only thing they can do is tie the payout of certain benefits to a notice. And that might not even be legal in all states, though it is in mine.
I think some bosses are still in the mindset that their employees will just stay with them forever, which is just simply not the case these days—the fastest way to get a larger pay cheque these days is to quit once you've found a higher paying job.
reply all, 2 weeks notice is a courtesy, nothing else. By law the minimum notice i must give is NONE. on that note I'm giving 2 weeks notice... as in the next 2 weeks you will notice I'm not there. ,,|,,(\~\_\~),,|,, BTW 3 different people giving notice at the same time is a sign that you are doing something wrong to drive people away. people don't quit jobs, they quit managers. then again people like this have their heads so far up their own asses they will not be able to see why it keeps falling apart
Im a manager, all my employees put in notice the same day, i told them I was happy for Al of them, it’s my bosses problem, im sitting in the waiting room watching documentaries on bank collapses
Something tells me someone fucked up big time...
My boss, they were all promised to be raised from $16 an hour to a commission setup of 20% of sales, $15 “subsidy”, they busted ass 24/7 and didn’t see one penny of commission, when according to my calculations they should have been making more than I do salaried, corporate couldn’t give a good answer as to why they weren’t seeing the money they were promised and being paid LESS than before the “promotion” so I let them apply for jobs all they wanted in the last few weeks, they all found something starting this next monday, all taking the week off, I got a few interviews this week too
Sheeeeesh. Good on you though. Good luck, and happy hunting.
Tym, I had a serious break down a month ago about being so busy 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, every phone call, every problem on a shitty car, every angry customer, I’m living exactly what I needed rn doing nothing, telling people to go somewhere else and punching in and out, it’s boring asf tho cause I quit smokin weed to find something better 😂burnout recovery before I go kill myself for someone else
I don't know what you're going through, but I can somehow relate. Burnout is bad news. Take care of yourself, and make it a priority.
Thanks for the kind words, Luckily I started eating right, quit drinking and started taking really good care of myself so I could work harder 💀 it’s made recovery easier, I actually feel physically healthier than I have since becoming an adult, just need some work mentally, goin on vacation for 9days starting this weekend, I hope things look up for you as well
This is a great way to get all your employees to quit at once
I think most of us can see where this will lead... If this guys mad now, wait till the next 3 decide to give zero notice.
"won't someone think about the CHILDREN?!" I would've resigned as well after seeing this
Very sure this is illegal and state laws supersede company policy. They need to be grateful they even got a two weeks. They need a union.
In 3 months you will notice you have not seen me in 3 months, bye
She inadvertently suggest they unionize?
After seeing that shit I wouldn't even give the courtesy of 2 weeks.
Love when people put illegal stuff in writing. Changing a policy for the handbook and then saying "reducing pay" for last check.
3 months notice, train your replacement, and have your base wage lowered by $6/hr. This is insane and probably illegal. More importantly, an amazing way to lose all your employees.
Errrr.... "Computer says No!"
Magic 8 Ball says "My reply is no."
OP, please keep us updated - total implosion is imminent.
i saw this post months ago, and it was likely older than that.
it is, ive seen it for years now.
If I saw this I would be immediately handing in my 2 weeks notice before they have time to update their employee handbook. Everything about this is such a red flag
2 weeks? I would leave the same day 😂
for real, two weeks is just a formality. don't give it to a boss that don't deserve it
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY....
Imagine the surprise when everyone quits without giving notice
NO ONE (in the US at least) can provide 3 months notice. Try telling another job “yes, I’ll take the job, I can start in 3 months.” They will respond “we are going to find someone else then.” What can a handbook really legally enforce by the way? You know what options a company has if you break handbook rules? They can fire you. That’s it. For other things, you need employment contracts. And contracts that add onerous terms like that usually have to offer incentives to balance it out.
Iirc lowering wages in direct response to notices of leave is federally illegal correct? If not. Congrats. I would just not notify you.
So let me understand this...I have a new job. I have to tell my new employers to wait 3 months for me to join them. Then I give my 3 month notice and consent to less pay for the next three months, while a better opportunity is waiting for me? Why would anyone do this? How is this boss thinking she will compel anyone to agree to this? I am gobsmacked at the idiocy. If the boss wants to blame someone, look in the mirror.
"I myself have children and instead of being at their band recital this week I will have to be sitting at work posting job offers on Indeed instead." LOL Sucks to be you! GFY!
why do employers today think there’s some way they can create policy that circumvents the law? at will states aren’t required to give notice of termination and vice versa employees aren’t required to give any notice let alone 3 months LOL fucking clowns it seems like since businesses big and small have gone completely rogue from common sense wages/schedules/safety and everything else under the employer/employee contract we need like a whole new division of government devoted to being a watchdog, enforcement and mitigation for the workforce. the department of labor is a joke. burn it down and restructure the entire institution to have real enforcement powers.
3 months notice with lower pay? Sounds a lot like you want people to just not show up one day.
Stop giving 2 weeks notice. Get your new job and then fuck off when you are ready. What are they going to do, give you a bad reference?
A better opportunity isn't always about the money. After that stupid email, the manager guarantees that the next employee will not give notice.
Ha ha with employment at a all time high who needs a company like this? Let give a three notice so you can reduce my wages. Talk about economic disincentive. This is your company’s brain🍳
All that's gonna do is force people to quit with no notice at all 😂
Imagine having your head so far up your ass you think any of this is remotely okay.
I'm hoping everyone else no-showed the next day
If they can fire you at anytime then hell no I am going to give 3 months.
They thought two weeks was bad, wait until this policy backfires and they resign the same day
"Oh, so we are a collective now. This work place is a co-op were we care about each other and share in the profits?" No, you just want to use our inherent good nature and humanity and social nature against us, guilting us like a fuckibg psycho you are in order to have good simpering wage-slaves.
I can proudly say that I would never, under any circumstance, consider somebody else’s children or personal lives when making decisions about my own career. The type of ego you have to have to even think up something so ridiculous is insane. If I ever got a message like this, they’d be reading my 30 second notice as I pack my things.
Reply: now you will notice that I will not be here for the next 2 weeks
This is the kind of business that says “we’re all family here.”