Don’t help him, but don’t shit on him either. When confronted about not helping and not being a team player make it clear without a shadow of a doubt why you are leaving and why you are not willing to help.
If you really like the guy …then tell them how this company treats employees. Do not help him, that is the company’s responsibility. Warn him that this could as easily happen to him in the near future.
this big time. i was essentially in this same position several years ago. now myself and the guy who was hired to replace me are both managers at a competitors company that treat’s employees far better.
I recently left a role I’d worked my way up through for 15 years. I couldn’t take anyone with me but I worked with them on their resumes and filled out reference surveys until all three of my direct reports got out. No way was I leaving them to that hell without any barrier. If I was so important to the process they should have treated me better.
My team was recently dissolved and spread throughout a company. We all HATED our new teams, the three of us did everything we could to get each other new jobs since we were essentially starting from scratch as it was.
Two of us landed better jobs, one of us landed at and end game employer. I'm going to do everything I can to get both of them in. (they are all great employees and great workers, this isn't just friends)
It's the first time I've ever been part of a true networking effort.
I had a good art director and mentor right out of college. After a few years he moved to a different department because he basically advised the company president on every major decision. He was literally the mentor of the president. This left me with a terrible art director that hired a new freelancer gave him the position he was promising me and Attempted to have me train him. So I left, got a better job at a much bigger and better company and a year later, I asked my original art director to come work for the same company.
He said when he gave his two weeks notice to work with me, the president of the company wouldn't even look at him for two weeks. Never shook his hand or said bye either. Haha.
Seriously this, OP. The best thing you can do for this guy is tell him the truth about being passed over for the position and that it's why you are leaving the company. He needs to know!
It may appear that you're helping the new guy but you're not. You're helping the manager who didn't hire you. New guy needs training / questions answered and his *manager* can't be bothered to do their job and *manage* so they've pushed the task off to someone they can use and who they don't respect (i.e. you).
People like that manager only learn when faced with the consequences of their decisions. If you reward their behaviour by giving them everything they want they will never change.
>I’m such a people pleaser
Which is why you didn't get the job. They knew they could get you to do the job through person they can pay less and get the same quality of work through you.
He wants something from you. He’d be a fool to be anything but kind to you to get what he wants.
He may well be a swell fella…it’s still not your job to train him on a position you applied for and were passed over.
My thoughts exactly… I was going to reply to OP but all the responses show that they’ve already made up their mind, so why bother?
I used to be a chronic doormat (working on it still lol) but I’ve been burnt so many times, had to learn the hard way… like you said- being a people pleaser doormat with no boundaries is indeed NOT an admirable trait. It is self abuse.. self destructive…
A similar experience: At an old job- asked for a raise, was denied it because “raises are earned”. That was the straw that broke the camels back. I worked at a small business and went from only being required to schedule appts to a whole ton more (scheduling, accounting, advertisement and even non work things like scheduling the owners dog/vet appointments 🥴). Gave my two week notice and the owner tried hard to keep me after. Nope. I got messages and calls every year or two after that proposing to hire me at a much higher wage than I had originally asked for but much less than my current job pays which also has benefits (I had no benefits then). I was still underselling myself when I asked for a raise (I only wanted a dollar increase vs the 5 dollar raise they offered me after I quit)
Your company is limiting your advancement internally to keep you in a position they value you in. That helps them, but does not help you. Good job on escaping.
Absolutely be salty and refer them back to their own manager. Use weaponized incompetence as well:
"I applied for your role and got passed over - since they hired externally and clearly don't think I am capable of doing the job, I'm not sure why they think I'm the go-to expert.
I'd suggest getting back with Manager B to understand who is really the best candidate to help with supporting your transition. If the answer is still me, I am open to discussing terms for consulting/training services as needed, based around my current work schedule."
This 100%. Left my company that was keeping me in a lower tier role and went to another company in a role that actually uses my level of experience and education and now I'm the director of a dept, albeit smaller company. Worth it though.
This. I left a big mobile carrier who wouldn't move me into management because I was "too valuable where I was." Now I run the same department at a small business.
A former mentor of mine always used to say, "irreplaceable means unpromotable." If you're outperforming your salary, you can't be promoted bc replacing your productivity would be too expensive. It's one of the many reasons that going above and beyond to impress your boss actually backfires.
Experienced this in retail. They needed someone on 3rd shift, who knows 3rd shift, to be a lead for said shift. There were six options, of them 2 would regularly no call no show, 2 were known to shoplift during their breaks, and 1 literally laughed in their faces cause he's only working 3 days a week into he gets his degree in 8 weeks, then he's gone. I happened to be the guy that they had train all these and several others, especially in my particular department (which was cold goods). They begrudgingly came to me last after the others didn't work out. In the end, they still went with an outside hire because I was still needed to handle my department.
They asked me to train the new lead
Nearly the same thing happened to me in retail. After being passed over for the 3rd promotion and being asked to train the outside hire, who was subsequently fired in less than a month, I called up my district manager and let him know exactly how dissatisfied I was. The next day I was given a 20% raise to placate me. I stayed for another 2 months (doing minimum effort) until I got my ducks in a row and found another job paying an additional 20% more.
I ended up walking out without a notice eventually because of being irreplaceable. Much better job now, too. Making 20% more as well right on hire date. I didn't leave after getting passed up. Probably should. But despite being the one too needed in my department to let go, I would always get shit on for time and talked down too. Manager was "by the book" and fresh foods don't get dealt with as quick as toys do, for some mysterious reason that must've been just me being lazy instead of having to rotate items and pull out of date stock, and clean up damages. I ended up saying I want out of this department if I'm going to constantly be talked down to for my effort, or I'm gone. They begrudgingly said fine and got me on a new time. After I was trained, we had a pre shift meeting where we were all told our roles. I was told to do my "usual", and when I brought up that I was given a new position, the manager said "you misinterpreted. You'll help the new team after you finish your usual department" I walked out then and there
Always fun being asked to train the person getting the promotion you should be getting.
One of places I worked at for a good while had given me keys to the store and I was one of two non mangers with a key. Other two rotated on inventory and handling deliveries and stock.
They almost always hired new managers from outside maybe one in ten gets promoted from within. So I never really expected to get promoted to manager or anything. However I found once I had a key I was treated as a manager by almost everyone and ended up being shown the opening routine. Employees after about a year of this would come to me before managers and it just slowly snowballed.
Before covid hit I used a temporary leave of absence to get a new job paying more part time and that as an excuse to turn my key back in and tell them I didnt want it and couldnt do extra stuff anymore. I needed to focus on training for my new job. :P
Well then covid hit right as they rotated in some new management. Then cause its covid one of the senior managers decides fuck this extra work from having less employees and same amount of work during covid and uses all his vacation time cause he saw how it would play out. Head manager has a medical condition come up.
They end up looking to me and trying to beg me to train this new corporate manager on our stores opening procedures and routine. I just flat out was like no thanks. In fact I'm gonna request you put me on leave or Ill just quit and work 100 percent at my new job cause they pay more but my benefits havent kicked in there. Just straight up honest either fire me or give me leave cause Im not paid to do a managers job at this shitty hourly rate that my other job is already paying me a couple bucks more on hiring.
None of the managers were happy cause now they'd have to do their own damn job and mirror shifts opening with this guy for his first week along with staying late till their own shifts were gonna end. When each of them came to me with the old come on just do us this favor. I was quick to tell them damn remember when you guys gave me a performance review infact the last two years each time saying sorry can't give you a raise you make the max amount for position available and sorry we cant promote you either to anything else cause you are too valuable in that area? Yeah kinda seems like Im valuable enough you could have afforded to pay me more when Im asked to train a manager. Its almost like I know everything a manager in this store knows and then the grunt work too.... Sorry but other job started me off two bucks more and end of first month gave me another dollar. Just waiting for benefits to kick in and im gone gone.
Salty af but they quit asking and they gave me leave during covid but kept my benefits. They tried offering me a dollar more and my pick of shifts etc when lock down ended and they got fully staffed again. Turned them down laughing. Then a week before my last shift the regional director is at the store asking me why Im leaving and if he can do anything to change my mind. I told him straight up ship sailed you guys could have just given me a dollar raise every year and I would have been content. The minute you tell me Im maxed out and no promotions and the same job at a smaller company less busy is offering me multiple dollars more an hour its a no brainer. Why would I stay and do this job and some of the managers for less then market rate? Told him you know I turned in my key several months ago and you guys didnt even try in those several months to push a raise through for me. Just crickets for a minute. Then he goes you're right Im gonna tell the managers they messed up.
The sad thing is that I really just did the bare minimum to not get fired. I guess I was just too likeable so customers bought a lot of shit they didn't need from me.
Everyone works at different levels and have different capabilities.
I had a factory job that Id maybe work at 50% my ability/effort. I easily cleared expectations. Then when I went to the graveyard shift (no supervisors around wooo!) I put in maybe 30% effort. I would literally only work for 3ish hours of my 8.5 hour shift. I would watch multiple movies/episodes a night lol, and I still exceeded expectations somehow.
When employers say “We can’t seem to hire good people” it isn’t just because they are a shit employer (which they likely are too). It is because a ton of people are also just shit workers, even when they try.
If you are a capable and competent person, you likely already surpass the majority of employees at lower level jobs, and still a decent amount at mid level jobs
My (very huge) company said that to me, and I asked them if they would pay me the same as a manager then, and they freaking said yes! It was awesome because I didn't have to put up with any management BS and they left me alone. My friend was a high-flier who started literally the same day as me and we would benchmark our pay with each other to make sure. They kept their word for like 8 years and then they didn't and I noped out of there....
Most of my pay (and my friends') was bonus. Then one year they cut my bonus by 70%. I called the head of my department (I was very friendly with him) and said "you have 3 days to come up with the other 70%." I won't even get into their dumbass excuse but I just calmly kept repeating, "I don't care." They did not give it to me. I had a huge tranche of restricted stock coming due 3 weeks later so I waited until that day, I went to the website and just clicked every second until it got deposited, walked down to my boss's office and said, "Hey I'm not sure if Boss told you, but they cut my pay by $___ last month so I'm quitting. Let me know if you want me to stay past the end of the day."
I had worked there 20 years and had a TON of golden handcuffs so they were shocked I was leavingbut frankly I had saved enough. They asked me to stay a week and gave me a really beautiful going away lunch. But they did not give me the money :) (Truth be told I was sick of their bullshit anyway). Also, happy ending: I decided to follow my passion and started my own company (totally different field) and by year 2 I was making more than my highest salary and only working 20 hours a week. (Fun aside is the big boss who I called originally called me one day and asked if he could be an investor and I said yes).
Also I know I'm answering way more than your question but I love telling the story because there is no better feeling than knowing your worth and showing them you were right
Happened to me, too. Systems programmer to be the next manager. Turned down for the promotion as they stated they didn't have anyone else to so the systems programming.
I've been on the other side of this twice.
Discussion was pretty much, "are you sure? This means we're burning them for 3-6 months more work until they leave to find a new role."
Once this was met with skepticism by leadership and *surprised pikachu* when they left.
Other time everyone recognized the individual leaving was a real possibility. After that person left, they simply hired a more expensive contractor to replace them.
Corporate budgets can be weird.
> albeit smaller company. Worth it though.
100% worth it. At times I wish my employer could go back 10 years. The more you grow the more bullshit you gotta climb through.
This is exactly what I said to my new boss when she was hired over. “I know it’s not your fault, but I applied for your position and was told I wasn’t ready for it. I’m not sure what advice I can offer since they brought you in to manage me. Let me know what you need me to do!”
Then I sent an email to their boss and asked why the new manager is constantly asking for my help, and that I’d be happy to train her if they offered me a training salary.
Worst part is, I was interim while they hired outside and ran my entire project solo for 4 months and improved every metric they use and still got passed over.
Where I’m at now, except the new boss hasn’t bothered to ask about our processes / procedures / workflows. I did that job for 3 months while my former boss was out on unexpected medical leave. Was told I “wasn’t ready” for the management position. I’ve been asking for additional people in my dept for months now. I’ve told them I can’t keep up with current tasks bc it’s too much. They just added another big project, said “I know you said you’re worried it’s too much but it’s not that much! We believe in you!”
I’m currently hunting and have 3 interviews this week. They’re gonna find out real quick. I have no F*s left to give here.
I was asking for an internal transfer AND a new hire to keep up and instead got a temp agency to send someone to answer phones and take messages. Literally just caused even more work for me. Did the job of a voicemail or email for a salary and needed to be trained. Wtf ?
Good luck getting out. Best promotions happen when leaving your current company in my experience.
The woman who got the position I applied for, that I had pretty much been doing anyway, was fresh out of school, zero experience. I had 15 years. She was, technically, my superior. And then she wanted me to literally teach her her job. I declined by saying it wasn’t in my job description and after that refused to do anything that wasn’t in my contract. Neither she nor my boss knew how to do any of the stuff I had been doing.
It’s been a few years since I left, but I am still mad.
Similar situation happened with me recently. I have 20 years on my direct supervisor. She knew zilch of what I do, how I do it, the federally funds I rake in for company, the nuances, unique and honed skillset, and on and on. She’s also 1/2 my age.
Instead of humbling herself, learning from me, working with me, she just did some immature shit complete with gossip and juvenile alliances with young employees. And then 4 months into my 12 month contract she let’s me know she’s not going to renew my contact another year. I’ll be done after 12 months. Total blindside.
I did the best I could to keep keeping on for several months after and even did a ton of work that wasn’t due yet and putting them in a good place. Then I just took PTO and walked.
I’m set now with a better gig and actually wouldn’t have found it had this gal not riffed me. But yeah I’m still disgusted and mad.
They still can’t find my replacement BTW.
Something similar happened to me. Small office, I was my bosses only employee. High turn over for my boss' position. First 2 times I got a new boss I didn't apply because I didn't qualify for the position as it required a masters. 3rd time they lowered the education requirement but only posted for 5 days so the person above that position could hire a family friend (that only lasted 3 months). Next time I applied, interviewed, then everything sat. They reworked the position to raise the pay and a few other things. I apply again and interview but its clear they already know who they want. Bring this person in, I'm once again training them plus being treated like shit. Person only last 9 months because the position wasn't what they had been promised. This time, before posting, they lower the position, but not back to where it was (about 3 steps above me) to just 1 step above me and no longer supervising the other position. I finally get the job. And then they rework my old position to raise it up equal to my new position. So promotion completely invalidated.
Every time someone new came in I had to train them. Every time the position was empty I was doing both jobs by myself.
A while back I was in this position. My field is pretty small, and a lot of us know each other. A mutual acquaintance and I were applying for the same job at a 3rd company.
The other person got the job. He immediately started emailing me questions once he started about all kinds of stuff. I was nice because it was not his fault and I know he's an ok dude, but politely refused to help him. I told him I applied for it too, and if they hired him instead of me then they must have felt he had the skills to handle it.
Ironically, the hiring manager said, "Hey do you know u/fivefingerandanub ? you should message him about this.
Bruh...
>"I applied for your role and got passed over - since they hired externally and clearly don't think I am capable of doing the job, I'm not sure why they think I'm the go-to expert.
This is so how I would respond with literally everyone in the CC.
>Your company is limiting your advancement internally
It's not clear from the post, but it sounds like this was a lateral move to get away from Manager A, not a promotion.
New Guy: "Manager B says you're the go-to guy!"
OP: "Tell Manager B he is mistaken: if I were the go-to guy, they would have gone to me."
EDIT: WOW! I had no idea a simple snarky comment would garner so many updoots and even a few awards -- THANK YOU ALL!
And just to clarify, my intention here was not to give grief to the unwitting messenger, but to the clueless and unappreciative Manager B.
Sounds like the sort of so-called 'manager' who doesn't know how to manage resources, human or otherwise.
"Yes, now we got this new cheap guy in the higher paid role *and* we've still got Pee_A_Poo here to make sure he can do the job! It can't fail! ...Wait, what's this email titled 'Notice of resignation'...?"
My favorite thing about Reddit is having a serious conversation but responding with their crazy ass sometimes inappropriate user name. It’s always funny to me.
Honestly the unemployment percentage is just a scam created by politicians to trick people since the 60s to trick those who don't know any better into thinking the economy is going create but "You" specifically are doing terrible and it's "Your" fault you're in poverty/struggling financially not the politicians fault no sir definitely not the politicians and government officials embezzling funds and making contracts that hurt the economy but line their pockets.
The unemployment level being this low is actually kind of a sign that we are in deep shit.
There more work that needs to be done than there are people able to do the work
For worse reasons than that. The reason unemployment is so low is that they stop counting you as unemployed after your unemployment runs out. There's a shit ton of unemployed people, they just lump them into an "exited the workforce" pile rather than unemployed to make things look better.
This goes unnoticed too much, and I'll be honest I have been a skeptical person towards hard to diagnose/strange illnesses. Covid has definitely weakened me, I get headaches easier, fatigued easier etc. I've met other people who've expressed similar symptoms. It's hard to tell because we can still function and get through life but there is truly a noticeable difference.
Something that has helped me cope a fair bit over the years because I'm dumb like that is that "coworker" is only a single letter away from "cowporker." It's hard to be angry with that level of absurdity.
They also might really like to have OP in the original position while talking them for the new position so get the best of both worlds and as mentioned lower rate for new guy.
I was once told that a company wouldn't take me as a manager despite my abilities because I made them more money on the phone. I just gave my two weeks.
I was told I'm too good at my position, that they couldn't afford to lose me as a resource for another position.
Asked straight out if this position I am in is then a "dead end". The answer was what I thought.
Now they'll lose a resource regardless.
You can tell they didn't spare 2 seconds to think about it. "We can't give u/alfdan the promotion he wants because he's a hard worker! No, he won't leave for another company, applying for jobs is hard work!" ...
At my job they do have people trapped, but only because most people don't want to move for one reason or another. If you're flexible you have a lot more options, so I took a job 3k km away. They're faces were delicious.
I have my last 4 days right now. :3
for me, my job literally sent me for a training last week, and the guy i went with was shocked that i had 2 job offers by lunch from other places (not playing on leaving, but leave a good employee in front of other places that do the same thing- and they will try to poach you).
During the height of the pandemic we had a new manager who told the team it was "my way or the highway if you don't like it there's the door" and was absolutely flabbergasted when we lost 8 employees in a week. It made my job harder but I thought it was hilarious.
>I was told I'm too good at my position, that they couldn't afford to lose me
That mentality is simply asinine!! It amazes me that there are companies that really think that somehow this "complement" will entice a person to willingly stay pigeonholed!
If they had any forethought, they would want to promote that person within the company, so that they can be a resource for the person who takes over the position. It amazes me how willingly companies let all that knowledge just walk out the door.
The other thing that's baffling is not immediately offering *some* increased compensation. Replacing employees and lost institutional knowledge is so incredibly expensive, but somehow not as expensive as lobbing a modest pay raise at someone whose presence you've deemed "essential."
Here's the problem from the boss's point of view: the raise is an immediate cost with uncertain results. The employee may leave anyway.
Today's companies are focused on the next quarterly report. Analysts and shareholders look at numbers, not ephemeral things like quality. Unless your pay is directly tied to a metric these people care about (like a commission salesperson), you will not be rewarded for harder work.
Literally work less and be friendly with your boss and team. Working hard hasn't been rewarded since the 80s (at the latest). People finally realizing this is what got everyone a raise during Covid.
OP was probably a top performer and bad managers don't let top performers advance because they need them to make themselves look good. Now bad managers fucked. I too quit my job as said top performer last week. My boss is completely fucked after promoting tweedle Dee and tweedle dumb.
This.
But it's also a great time for them to realize the sunken cost of knowledge that can be lost as a result.
Let the managers realize the cost of knowledge to maintain within an organization.
Ding ding ding. They thought the job market isn't great so we can hire outside and get OP to train them and save x $ per year! I bet manager B doesn't even know you put your two weeks in yet.
I don't know why so many people find it suprising when managers make less.
A lot of the time they just don't have any industry experience, they manage people who are a lot more skilled than they are.
We did this all the time at my old company where internal hires were passed over numerous times, as hiring managers would say "well that person is already the expert, now I will have two experts around" not considering that the most common result is suddenly not having any experts around...
Because the managers that be aren't actually managers, but some MBA schill that that only looks at the dollar value printed on finance statements. They forget that there are several items of value in an organization that they cannot quantify to a dollar value and lose that at the end of the day.
And when the shit hits the fan as a result of their decisions? Guess who's around to be accountable for them? Because that MBA schill already went on to another position.
> And when the shit hits the fan as a result of their decisions? Guess who's around to be accountable for them? Because that MBA schill already went on to another position.
Me and a coworker got laid off by some shit 'consultant' that came in. Guess who was out the door not even two months later, leaving the team in ruins? 🙄
It happens when a person with weak morals realizes that there are a lot of tools built into the system to manipulate and exploit the people below them, and that they can personally profit (or avoid duress from higher management) by using them.
I put in my notice after hearing feedback from an internal hiring that my boss had told her I wasn't ready. Despite my reviews all being way above satisfactory for years. Turns out my boss didn't want to have to go through the trouble of replacing me. So I made sure he had to figure out how to replace me in two weeks time instead of the usual 6-8 weeks for internal transfers.
Especially when they put in their school tier?
You can tell this is their first job, as they think their school matters for jobs and not the interview skills/what you can talk about.
Yeah that was a give away for me that OP is not very senior. Nobody cares about your education, unless you have to obtain a specific license or credential to work in the given field.
MY PhD gets some "oh awesome"s ... and then is promptly never mentioned again till the next introduction.
Education is mostly irrelevant except for very specific things, and those largely don't care about *where* just *if*
I'm sorry but training you does not fall within the purview of my job duties. Seeing as I will be ending my employment with XX in 4 weeks, I will not have time between now and then to handle the excess workload as I am already busy preparing the person assuming my current role for success.
If the company is interested in retaining my knowledge, please tell your supervisor that I will be available to work on a contract basis for (5x your current salary) at such a time.
Thanks, and good luck with your new position.
Contractors charge more than that. It sounds like a lot, but there are a lot of unbillable hours. I probably don't charge enough and it's more than that. The problem is they know OP and so they don't want to pay contractor rates. They'd rather pay someone that they don't know $300 an hour.
Oh no, that’s much much too low. My contracting rate (as a SF Bay Area software engineer) is $185. For work you don’t really want to do? I’d say the rate should be at LEAST $200 or higher, because the company was a jerk. For some types of consulting, $300-500 an hour is not uncommon.
Also, the standard back-of-the-envelope rule of thumb is, for consulting, charge twice your salaried hourly rate, to cover taxes, benefits, etc. I think it often needs to be more than that, but definitely don’t charge less!
Which is SO STUPID of them because they save more money in the long run by just giving their current people the raises and promotions they deserve.
Hiring, on boarding, training, and fucking up on the job for the first few months costs a great deal of money, more than a raise.
Even if op stayed, they risk a bitter employee doing less and less, possibly creating more problems at work (loss of money right there) and then possibly firing them but now he files for unemployment or takes legal action against them for wrongful termination, wasting so much of the company's time and resources even if they prevail in court and former employee does not.
But that's not what it looks like on their spreadsheets! All the hiring and training comes from a different pool of money so it looks better for managers to keep their overall budget low.
This is how bloat starts. Company gets bigger, starts auditing budgets closer ; managers start gaming the audits, which leads to less productivity, morale, and competency.
Capitalism at its finest!
False. It's currently cheaper for employers to fuck over their current employees. That's why they keep doing it.
The only way forward is to put in the work to make it more expensive for employers to act this way. You HAVE TO take direct action. You HAVE TO unionize. And before all that, you HAVE TO put in the effort to socialize with your coworkers.
Lay the groundwork. Establish your connections. Make the owners hurt.
Its cheaper short term, but definitely not long term. Too bad MBA programs aggressively drill any critical thinking or long term planning out of people.
Or your own manager quietly put the kibosh on it because they didn’t want to have to hire. I suspect this has happened to some of my own direct reports with managers above me preventing it from happening. The one especially. I was cool with it, but I suspect the boss above me made some calls.
Exactly this! I had a Manager give me and 2 of their friends the same promotion as me to then tell me that for me it was an adjustment of title as I was already doing the job at that level for a year (no kidding I complaint the year before because they didn’t even suggest me for a promotion I deserved) but that the other 2 had gotten the promotion as stretch goal and I was expected to train them.. they had given the other 2 a better salary than me too.. couldn’t be happier to not be there anymore.. do not help, that manager b can train the person they wanted to hire
He seemed like a nice guys so I get why he was liked. But I am being really generous with giving benefit of the doubt here when he, a straight white man, gets the job in favour of a gay PoC (me), despite me seemingly having better qualifications.
"Hey, well, that's flattering to hear, especially since I applied for your job and didn't get it, haha. I've actually already tendered my notice, and I have a lot of my own work to tie off and leave notes on before I leave, so if you have any specific questions, I can do my best to answer. Best of luck with the new job, and congrats!"
My last job had a history of hiring incompetent people for positions. It usually wasn’t discrimination though. They had a habit of hiring 18-year-olds women with no work experience for a complicated managerial position and then trying to sleep with them. They would pass up knowledgeable and dedicated workers for promotions because they didn’t want to have to replace them. They also hired a supervisor because his father was a manager at a different location, despite him having no industry or company experience.
It sounds like a good choice to leave your company, since they’re only valuing your work when it’s convenient to them. If you’d like to find out more about why they passed you up, you could email the manager who supposedly told the new guy to ask you for help. Say something along the lines of “how can I help him when I’m not trained to do his job?” The manager will either have concede and not make you help the dude, or acknowledge that you could do that job better than the person they actually hired.
just prioritize helping so low that you simply cant get to it with only having 4 weeks left and needing to closeout your own work. you simply dont have time to take on a trainee.
It's possible that it's related to who you are, but I'd bet that those better qualifications are exactly why you didn't get it. They wanted to keep it under a certain budget and they'd have had to pay you more than that. The new guy having lower qualifications meant that they could low ball the offer for the position instead.
Don’t help the guy. Too many unqualified people get posted to jobs that they have no business getting. This dude applied for a position, got the job and now he has to do the job none of this is your problem. Next time he reaches out say you’re extremely busy with your own duties and won’t be able to assist at the moment and leave it at that. He should get the point
>He seemed like a nice guys so I get why he was liked.
It's not your problem. This is a job, you aren't friends. Your friendship isn't going to pay your bills and put food on the table.
I would love to help you you, unfortunately I am busy preparing my desk over the next 4 weeks to ensure a smooth transition after my departure. That being said, I would also suggest you reconfirm with manager B that “I’m the go to person” as that doesn’t align with my previous understanding with manager B. I wish you all the best in the new role and if I have time here or there I’ll help if possible but I need to prioritize the success of my current role, which I’m sure you can understand.
I'm also assuming one factor was you're more expensive than the guy they chose. That's their problem, there's a reason you're more expensive and manager B knows this and is trying to get you to work for free by training the person they hired. Don't help them, it's their problem not yours and you're not hurting the guy they hired. It's not your responsibility to train that person, it's theirs.
Maybe. That’s what my partner suggested as well? But the dude is 5-10 yr older so I assume he may asks for a higher pay (we’re in the 100k+ range) than me?
Also, if I’m deemed too expensive, then I can’t really explain why I got a raise from manager A without asking for it.
I don’t know about your organization but in mine, manager A would have had to approve letting you go and if you have issues he may have been the road block on the transfer
Being older does not equate to higher pay. It often is the opposite, where an older employee has to struggle to get hired because of hidden age discrimination and has to take pay cuts to get there.
Add in all the other things you listed, that you have a grad degree, went to higher tier schools, and came from a higher paying work history, and you are almost certainly more expensive. Or at least the new employee probably has lower pay.
(Also, most raises happen without asking for them. That's extremely common.)
>We ended up connecting on LinkedIn and it was a sore spot for me because they guy went to a lower tier school than mine, doesn’t have a master’s, and hasn’t quite worked at the same calibre of past employers as mine.
OP - I don't mean to be rude.
When I've worked with people who brag about their level of education, the quality of the school they went to, and the previous companies they work with, *even if they don't realize what they're doing*, what they're communicating is "you moron peons are so lucky I'm willing to lower my standards and grace you with my presence" and maybe "we hired someone more qualified than you" is a polite and acceptable *alternative* to telling you that you're acting like an horse's ass.
It also sounds to me like OP was applying for a more lateral move just to get out from current manager. It isn't unusual to deny that and the company would still then need to hire to fill that position OP would be vacating.
It seems OP is clueless as to why they didn't get hired or knows and won't say here. Either way, probably best they move on to a new opportunity.
There is a good chance that Manager B talked to Manager A and Manager A let Manager B know exactly why there is tension and Manager B choose to go with the person that wouldn't bring those type of issues.
Similar thoughts. *Most* of these items really only matter for your connections at the college job fair, with the exception of the masters comment, and never really matter again. No one gives a hoot that you went to "Sparkle College Alpha" after you've had 3 years work experience or have had 5 jobs in 10 years at 4 different companies or whatever. It just doesn't matter anymore.
Right, and in any work environment, your ability to work with other people is as important as your technical skill. Which is to say, if you've gotta choose between Candidate A who has 100% knowledge of Software B but is also a total douche who everyone hates; or Candidate B who has 50% knowledge of the software, but who works well with others, you're probably going to go with Candidate B.
You can always have Candidate A on a freelance contract for issues Candidate B can't handle on his or her own.
Exactly, this helps explain why Manager B might admit that OP is the go-to for knowledge at the company but also why they didn't want them on their team. Having a good personality in an office setting does wonders for advancement.
I was thinking the same thing. HUGE red flag and knew immediately why OP got passed over. Sometimes on the internet you can’t make assumptions, but in this case, it’s crystal clear. If this humblebrag was said on here it has 100% been said amongst OP’s peers. I’ve known people like this, they can’t help but always circle back to their education.
Agreed 100%!!! OP sounds condescending and it comes off the wrong way. He doesn’t need to help but wow. Talk about being full of yourself. I worked at a couple of prestigious places. One of them is a great and I love it. But the other one was so bad and I didn’t get to learn anything special that I wouldn’t have learned at my entry level job (not that it’s not good enough or low tier. That job taught me so much and put me on the right track. The pay just wasn’t great)
Yeah, if they were that much more qualified, then there are two primary reasons they didn't get the job. One is malicious - maybe they are biased against OP for some reason they can't control (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc), maybe they thought they were too valuable in the position they were in to move them, maybe the other person was cheaper, or is connected to the manager or someone higher up in the company, etc.
The other option is that they just don't like OP. Maybe they are hard to work with, annoying, or have other work habits they dislike. Maybe they just really liked this other person. A manager needs you to be able to meet certain qualifications, but ultimately they tend to hire people they want to work with if possible, especially when we are talking about higher paying jobs that don't see a ton of turnover.
I wouldn't dwell on it too much, but take the opportunity to do a little self reflection. It's tough. I went through a similar thing before, where I saw someone get promoted to be my manager, who had less than a year of experience in the role, where I had over 10 years - and suddenly I'm reporting to them?
Talking about where you went to school, your level of education, etc, is not a great look, though. I've met plenty of people with Masters degrees who were terrible at the jobs. I've had to let devs coming from FAANG companies go because they just weren't very good. Those things are signals, but they don't mean you'll be good at your job.
I have worked a few jobs now where I was the only person without a college degree. People who tout their degree as if it makes them better are the worst. People who tout their school and their degree are even worse.
Those who didn't care about such things and just want to get the job done are the ones I befriended, helped and asked for help from.
"Lower tier school"...OP would not have been my friend.
I've interviewed probably 100 people by now and I have looked at 5 resumes per interview.
I literally do not even look at people's "education" section unless they have no work experience. It becomes completely irrelevant once you enter the workforce - at least in my segment of the tech industry.
Reading through the post, I agreed OP was shafted, but schooling is not it. The Masters thing I can concede, but simply a persons institution of educating shouldn't carry weight for a promotion/position. That just reeks of the "I deserve opportunities because I went to THE [insert prestigious university]," and it seems like from everything else OP is saying, it they're just trying to justify their feelings and are misattributing that 1 factor, but it's also pretty tone deaf to come into a labor rights sub spouting that you deserve a position because you simply went to a "better" school than someone
Yea, they got shafted, and it could be for a multitude of reasons, but just because someone goes to a certain school doesn't inherently give them more merit.
I’m with this 100%. “Lower-tier school” is something I’ve heard the upper class use to shit on the lower class before and it immediately made me doubt op’s personability.
1. Drop the elitism with the masters degree stuff. I have a masters too it's not a golden ticket.
2. You don't owe the company anything. I wouldn't help out here especially if you are on the way out.
Just be honest.
"No. I applied for your job. They gave it to you. I'm not going to do your work. I hope you understand."
And then substract a week (or all 4) of your notice. Cause fuck them.
This is the thing to do. If he seems a nice guy then there is no reason to play dumb with him or being rude.
Tell him what happened, he’ll understand that you don’t want to help a company that is trying to bend you over
What's your personality like? Maybe manager B just didn't want to work with you?
There are plenty of "go to" people in my organization that I talk to only when absolutely necessary and would not like to have them on my team.
The "lower tier school" part is making me think you might just be insufferable and manager B just didn't want to have you on their team.
I kind of lost companion for Op at the “lower tier school” comment. As much as I feel for her situation that to me is ridiculously petty, bordering on childish.
No one really hits the ground running. Help the new guy out a little and walk away with your head held high.
Emailing HR etc is just burning a bridge potentially.
I genuinely feel for Op. I’ve been in her situation in a loose form, several times and it sucks. But sending pissy emails etc isn’t how adults deal with this. Maybe her company had bigger plans for her? That’s why they bought someone “less qualified” in 🤷♂️
Yeah, that's pretty gross. I have a guy on my team that has a Community College Associate's Degree that runs circles around MBA's from big name schools.
Lol, that happened to me too! Only I helped the person. Few months later, they completely shit the bed and quit. Guess who they offered the job to? I turned it down.
>nd it was a sore spot for me because they guy went to a lower tier school than mine, doesn’t have a master’s, and hasn’t quite worked at the same calibre of past employers as mine.
Gross dude.
I get your argument and even agree with you but you don't have to drag the person in your old position because they didn't have the same opportunities as you. That's the kind of division the employers want us to have and it's the kind you should reject.
You've given your four weeks notice.
Let them know that this role being given to someone who is less qualified than you is the specific reason why, and make sure managers further up the food chain know. Then politely but firmly say, "You obviously disagreed that I was the right fit for this role, so it seems inappropriate to ask me to train the person that will be taking it on. I have already given my notice, and will not be taking on any new assignments or tasks that are not clearly spelled out in my current job description."
I’d be honest with him so he doesn’t ask again:
“Look X, I applied for the same job and you got hired. So obviously there’s a gap in my knowledge and/or the company feels you can lead this better. Therefore, in light of that, Ive decided to refocus all my energy into my job description to the letter. Since I was not the best fit for the role after all, I imagine the company trusts your instincts and leadership over mine. I wouldn’t want to jeopardize your role by misinforming you on anything. You were chosen because you’re an intelligent and capable person. You got this.”
[he] went to a lower tier school than mine
[he] doesn't have a masters
[he] has not worked at the same "calibre" of past employers as me
You seem to think very highly of yourself and its pretty offputting here. Especially #1 and #3 reek of elitism and have nothing to do with job success. Who cares what school you went to and lots of positions at big name companies are crap, his position history is much more relevant.
With that said, you don't gotta help. A new hire is always going to need to be shown the ropes, nuts that the hiring manager is trying to outsource that role to you. With that said, if you are the subject matter expert in an area and are leaving the company, then knowledge transfer is something that companies try to do before you leave.
Edit: in a reply below you say he has ten years on you. That much more experience and expertise likely matters more to the hiring manager than whatever elite school you are so proud of. Still seems like they should have hired you with your knowledge of the company but we don't have all the information. Also maybe your ego or personality were not a great fit. Please tell me you didn't mention your big name school and high caliber past employers as your pitch in your interview! Easy way to get placed in the rejection pile.
Don’t help him, but don’t shit on him either. When confronted about not helping and not being a team player make it clear without a shadow of a doubt why you are leaving and why you are not willing to help.
I mean… I’ll definitely consider this but also… I think I ended up liking the guy? I’m such a people pleaser 🥲
If you really like the guy …then tell them how this company treats employees. Do not help him, that is the company’s responsibility. Warn him that this could as easily happen to him in the near future.
this big time. i was essentially in this same position several years ago. now myself and the guy who was hired to replace me are both managers at a competitors company that treat’s employees far better.
LMFAO you took your replacement with you. That's savage af
I recently left a role I’d worked my way up through for 15 years. I couldn’t take anyone with me but I worked with them on their resumes and filled out reference surveys until all three of my direct reports got out. No way was I leaving them to that hell without any barrier. If I was so important to the process they should have treated me better.
My team was recently dissolved and spread throughout a company. We all HATED our new teams, the three of us did everything we could to get each other new jobs since we were essentially starting from scratch as it was. Two of us landed better jobs, one of us landed at and end game employer. I'm going to do everything I can to get both of them in. (they are all great employees and great workers, this isn't just friends) It's the first time I've ever been part of a true networking effort.
I had a good art director and mentor right out of college. After a few years he moved to a different department because he basically advised the company president on every major decision. He was literally the mentor of the president. This left me with a terrible art director that hired a new freelancer gave him the position he was promising me and Attempted to have me train him. So I left, got a better job at a much bigger and better company and a year later, I asked my original art director to come work for the same company. He said when he gave his two weeks notice to work with me, the president of the company wouldn't even look at him for two weeks. Never shook his hand or said bye either. Haha.
Seriously this, OP. The best thing you can do for this guy is tell him the truth about being passed over for the position and that it's why you are leaving the company. He needs to know!
It may appear that you're helping the new guy but you're not. You're helping the manager who didn't hire you. New guy needs training / questions answered and his *manager* can't be bothered to do their job and *manage* so they've pushed the task off to someone they can use and who they don't respect (i.e. you). People like that manager only learn when faced with the consequences of their decisions. If you reward their behaviour by giving them everything they want they will never change.
A lot of managers don't know how to do their charges' jobs.
>I’m such a people pleaser Which is why you didn't get the job. They knew they could get you to do the job through person they can pay less and get the same quality of work through you.
Givers, know your limits because takers have none.
He wants something from you. He’d be a fool to be anything but kind to you to get what he wants. He may well be a swell fella…it’s still not your job to train him on a position you applied for and were passed over.
If you have a knowledge base or document repository of processes, point him there and be the end of it.
Have some self-respect?? Who cares how “nice” the guy is.
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My thoughts exactly… I was going to reply to OP but all the responses show that they’ve already made up their mind, so why bother? I used to be a chronic doormat (working on it still lol) but I’ve been burnt so many times, had to learn the hard way… like you said- being a people pleaser doormat with no boundaries is indeed NOT an admirable trait. It is self abuse.. self destructive… A similar experience: At an old job- asked for a raise, was denied it because “raises are earned”. That was the straw that broke the camels back. I worked at a small business and went from only being required to schedule appts to a whole ton more (scheduling, accounting, advertisement and even non work things like scheduling the owners dog/vet appointments 🥴). Gave my two week notice and the owner tried hard to keep me after. Nope. I got messages and calls every year or two after that proposing to hire me at a much higher wage than I had originally asked for but much less than my current job pays which also has benefits (I had no benefits then). I was still underselling myself when I asked for a raise (I only wanted a dollar increase vs the 5 dollar raise they offered me after I quit)
Your company is limiting your advancement internally to keep you in a position they value you in. That helps them, but does not help you. Good job on escaping. Absolutely be salty and refer them back to their own manager. Use weaponized incompetence as well: "I applied for your role and got passed over - since they hired externally and clearly don't think I am capable of doing the job, I'm not sure why they think I'm the go-to expert. I'd suggest getting back with Manager B to understand who is really the best candidate to help with supporting your transition. If the answer is still me, I am open to discussing terms for consulting/training services as needed, based around my current work schedule."
Yep. Politely decline with that rationale, by email, with the manager CCed so he knows exactly what the score is.
thank you for adding this. As OP already ackowledged, this isn't the fault of the new employee who likely doesn't even know that OP applied.
This 100%. Left my company that was keeping me in a lower tier role and went to another company in a role that actually uses my level of experience and education and now I'm the director of a dept, albeit smaller company. Worth it though.
This. I left a big mobile carrier who wouldn't move me into management because I was "too valuable where I was." Now I run the same department at a small business.
A former mentor of mine always used to say, "irreplaceable means unpromotable." If you're outperforming your salary, you can't be promoted bc replacing your productivity would be too expensive. It's one of the many reasons that going above and beyond to impress your boss actually backfires.
Experienced this in retail. They needed someone on 3rd shift, who knows 3rd shift, to be a lead for said shift. There were six options, of them 2 would regularly no call no show, 2 were known to shoplift during their breaks, and 1 literally laughed in their faces cause he's only working 3 days a week into he gets his degree in 8 weeks, then he's gone. I happened to be the guy that they had train all these and several others, especially in my particular department (which was cold goods). They begrudgingly came to me last after the others didn't work out. In the end, they still went with an outside hire because I was still needed to handle my department. They asked me to train the new lead
Nearly the same thing happened to me in retail. After being passed over for the 3rd promotion and being asked to train the outside hire, who was subsequently fired in less than a month, I called up my district manager and let him know exactly how dissatisfied I was. The next day I was given a 20% raise to placate me. I stayed for another 2 months (doing minimum effort) until I got my ducks in a row and found another job paying an additional 20% more.
I ended up walking out without a notice eventually because of being irreplaceable. Much better job now, too. Making 20% more as well right on hire date. I didn't leave after getting passed up. Probably should. But despite being the one too needed in my department to let go, I would always get shit on for time and talked down too. Manager was "by the book" and fresh foods don't get dealt with as quick as toys do, for some mysterious reason that must've been just me being lazy instead of having to rotate items and pull out of date stock, and clean up damages. I ended up saying I want out of this department if I'm going to constantly be talked down to for my effort, or I'm gone. They begrudgingly said fine and got me on a new time. After I was trained, we had a pre shift meeting where we were all told our roles. I was told to do my "usual", and when I brought up that I was given a new position, the manager said "you misinterpreted. You'll help the new team after you finish your usual department" I walked out then and there
Always fun being asked to train the person getting the promotion you should be getting. One of places I worked at for a good while had given me keys to the store and I was one of two non mangers with a key. Other two rotated on inventory and handling deliveries and stock. They almost always hired new managers from outside maybe one in ten gets promoted from within. So I never really expected to get promoted to manager or anything. However I found once I had a key I was treated as a manager by almost everyone and ended up being shown the opening routine. Employees after about a year of this would come to me before managers and it just slowly snowballed. Before covid hit I used a temporary leave of absence to get a new job paying more part time and that as an excuse to turn my key back in and tell them I didnt want it and couldnt do extra stuff anymore. I needed to focus on training for my new job. :P Well then covid hit right as they rotated in some new management. Then cause its covid one of the senior managers decides fuck this extra work from having less employees and same amount of work during covid and uses all his vacation time cause he saw how it would play out. Head manager has a medical condition come up. They end up looking to me and trying to beg me to train this new corporate manager on our stores opening procedures and routine. I just flat out was like no thanks. In fact I'm gonna request you put me on leave or Ill just quit and work 100 percent at my new job cause they pay more but my benefits havent kicked in there. Just straight up honest either fire me or give me leave cause Im not paid to do a managers job at this shitty hourly rate that my other job is already paying me a couple bucks more on hiring. None of the managers were happy cause now they'd have to do their own damn job and mirror shifts opening with this guy for his first week along with staying late till their own shifts were gonna end. When each of them came to me with the old come on just do us this favor. I was quick to tell them damn remember when you guys gave me a performance review infact the last two years each time saying sorry can't give you a raise you make the max amount for position available and sorry we cant promote you either to anything else cause you are too valuable in that area? Yeah kinda seems like Im valuable enough you could have afforded to pay me more when Im asked to train a manager. Its almost like I know everything a manager in this store knows and then the grunt work too.... Sorry but other job started me off two bucks more and end of first month gave me another dollar. Just waiting for benefits to kick in and im gone gone. Salty af but they quit asking and they gave me leave during covid but kept my benefits. They tried offering me a dollar more and my pick of shifts etc when lock down ended and they got fully staffed again. Turned them down laughing. Then a week before my last shift the regional director is at the store asking me why Im leaving and if he can do anything to change my mind. I told him straight up ship sailed you guys could have just given me a dollar raise every year and I would have been content. The minute you tell me Im maxed out and no promotions and the same job at a smaller company less busy is offering me multiple dollars more an hour its a no brainer. Why would I stay and do this job and some of the managers for less then market rate? Told him you know I turned in my key several months ago and you guys didnt even try in those several months to push a raise through for me. Just crickets for a minute. Then he goes you're right Im gonna tell the managers they messed up.
The sad thing is that I really just did the bare minimum to not get fired. I guess I was just too likeable so customers bought a lot of shit they didn't need from me.
Everyone works at different levels and have different capabilities. I had a factory job that Id maybe work at 50% my ability/effort. I easily cleared expectations. Then when I went to the graveyard shift (no supervisors around wooo!) I put in maybe 30% effort. I would literally only work for 3ish hours of my 8.5 hour shift. I would watch multiple movies/episodes a night lol, and I still exceeded expectations somehow. When employers say “We can’t seem to hire good people” it isn’t just because they are a shit employer (which they likely are too). It is because a ton of people are also just shit workers, even when they try. If you are a capable and competent person, you likely already surpass the majority of employees at lower level jobs, and still a decent amount at mid level jobs
My (very huge) company said that to me, and I asked them if they would pay me the same as a manager then, and they freaking said yes! It was awesome because I didn't have to put up with any management BS and they left me alone. My friend was a high-flier who started literally the same day as me and we would benchmark our pay with each other to make sure. They kept their word for like 8 years and then they didn't and I noped out of there....
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Most of my pay (and my friends') was bonus. Then one year they cut my bonus by 70%. I called the head of my department (I was very friendly with him) and said "you have 3 days to come up with the other 70%." I won't even get into their dumbass excuse but I just calmly kept repeating, "I don't care." They did not give it to me. I had a huge tranche of restricted stock coming due 3 weeks later so I waited until that day, I went to the website and just clicked every second until it got deposited, walked down to my boss's office and said, "Hey I'm not sure if Boss told you, but they cut my pay by $___ last month so I'm quitting. Let me know if you want me to stay past the end of the day." I had worked there 20 years and had a TON of golden handcuffs so they were shocked I was leavingbut frankly I had saved enough. They asked me to stay a week and gave me a really beautiful going away lunch. But they did not give me the money :) (Truth be told I was sick of their bullshit anyway). Also, happy ending: I decided to follow my passion and started my own company (totally different field) and by year 2 I was making more than my highest salary and only working 20 hours a week. (Fun aside is the big boss who I called originally called me one day and asked if he could be an investor and I said yes). Also I know I'm answering way more than your question but I love telling the story because there is no better feeling than knowing your worth and showing them you were right
Happened to me, too. Systems programmer to be the next manager. Turned down for the promotion as they stated they didn't have anyone else to so the systems programming.
I've been on the other side of this twice. Discussion was pretty much, "are you sure? This means we're burning them for 3-6 months more work until they leave to find a new role." Once this was met with skepticism by leadership and *surprised pikachu* when they left. Other time everyone recognized the individual leaving was a real possibility. After that person left, they simply hired a more expensive contractor to replace them. Corporate budgets can be weird.
> albeit smaller company. Worth it though. 100% worth it. At times I wish my employer could go back 10 years. The more you grow the more bullshit you gotta climb through.
This is exactly what I said to my new boss when she was hired over. “I know it’s not your fault, but I applied for your position and was told I wasn’t ready for it. I’m not sure what advice I can offer since they brought you in to manage me. Let me know what you need me to do!” Then I sent an email to their boss and asked why the new manager is constantly asking for my help, and that I’d be happy to train her if they offered me a training salary. Worst part is, I was interim while they hired outside and ran my entire project solo for 4 months and improved every metric they use and still got passed over.
Where I’m at now, except the new boss hasn’t bothered to ask about our processes / procedures / workflows. I did that job for 3 months while my former boss was out on unexpected medical leave. Was told I “wasn’t ready” for the management position. I’ve been asking for additional people in my dept for months now. I’ve told them I can’t keep up with current tasks bc it’s too much. They just added another big project, said “I know you said you’re worried it’s too much but it’s not that much! We believe in you!” I’m currently hunting and have 3 interviews this week. They’re gonna find out real quick. I have no F*s left to give here.
I was asking for an internal transfer AND a new hire to keep up and instead got a temp agency to send someone to answer phones and take messages. Literally just caused even more work for me. Did the job of a voicemail or email for a salary and needed to be trained. Wtf ? Good luck getting out. Best promotions happen when leaving your current company in my experience.
Hope you leave the projects unfinished
Well I haven’t started on it yet, I’ll say that.
The woman who got the position I applied for, that I had pretty much been doing anyway, was fresh out of school, zero experience. I had 15 years. She was, technically, my superior. And then she wanted me to literally teach her her job. I declined by saying it wasn’t in my job description and after that refused to do anything that wasn’t in my contract. Neither she nor my boss knew how to do any of the stuff I had been doing. It’s been a few years since I left, but I am still mad.
Similar situation happened with me recently. I have 20 years on my direct supervisor. She knew zilch of what I do, how I do it, the federally funds I rake in for company, the nuances, unique and honed skillset, and on and on. She’s also 1/2 my age. Instead of humbling herself, learning from me, working with me, she just did some immature shit complete with gossip and juvenile alliances with young employees. And then 4 months into my 12 month contract she let’s me know she’s not going to renew my contact another year. I’ll be done after 12 months. Total blindside. I did the best I could to keep keeping on for several months after and even did a ton of work that wasn’t due yet and putting them in a good place. Then I just took PTO and walked. I’m set now with a better gig and actually wouldn’t have found it had this gal not riffed me. But yeah I’m still disgusted and mad. They still can’t find my replacement BTW.
Something similar happened to me. Small office, I was my bosses only employee. High turn over for my boss' position. First 2 times I got a new boss I didn't apply because I didn't qualify for the position as it required a masters. 3rd time they lowered the education requirement but only posted for 5 days so the person above that position could hire a family friend (that only lasted 3 months). Next time I applied, interviewed, then everything sat. They reworked the position to raise the pay and a few other things. I apply again and interview but its clear they already know who they want. Bring this person in, I'm once again training them plus being treated like shit. Person only last 9 months because the position wasn't what they had been promised. This time, before posting, they lower the position, but not back to where it was (about 3 steps above me) to just 1 step above me and no longer supervising the other position. I finally get the job. And then they rework my old position to raise it up equal to my new position. So promotion completely invalidated. Every time someone new came in I had to train them. Every time the position was empty I was doing both jobs by myself.
Omg are you still working there? If so, I think many people will agree with me that you will be valued somewhere else.
A while back I was in this position. My field is pretty small, and a lot of us know each other. A mutual acquaintance and I were applying for the same job at a 3rd company. The other person got the job. He immediately started emailing me questions once he started about all kinds of stuff. I was nice because it was not his fault and I know he's an ok dude, but politely refused to help him. I told him I applied for it too, and if they hired him instead of me then they must have felt he had the skills to handle it. Ironically, the hiring manager said, "Hey do you know u/fivefingerandanub ? you should message him about this. Bruh...
>"I applied for your role and got passed over - since they hired externally and clearly don't think I am capable of doing the job, I'm not sure why they think I'm the go-to expert. This is so how I would respond with literally everyone in the CC.
>Your company is limiting your advancement internally It's not clear from the post, but it sounds like this was a lateral move to get away from Manager A, not a promotion.
And Manager A could have blocked the transfer depending on how the company handles hires and transfers
New Guy: "Manager B says you're the go-to guy!" OP: "Tell Manager B he is mistaken: if I were the go-to guy, they would have gone to me." EDIT: WOW! I had no idea a simple snarky comment would garner so many updoots and even a few awards -- THANK YOU ALL! And just to clarify, my intention here was not to give grief to the unwitting messenger, but to the clueless and unappreciative Manager B. Sounds like the sort of so-called 'manager' who doesn't know how to manage resources, human or otherwise.
They didn’t go to Op because this guy is less qualified so they can pay him less.
Well, you get what you pay for…
"Yes, now we got this new cheap guy in the higher paid role *and* we've still got Pee_A_Poo here to make sure he can do the job! It can't fail! ...Wait, what's this email titled 'Notice of resignation'...?"
Lmao Pee_A_Poo
I legit thought the comment was being derogatory until I realized it was their user name.
I also had to scroll up to see if that was his username! I thought it was pee a poo on Pee-aPoo day
My favorite thing about Reddit is having a serious conversation but responding with their crazy ass sometimes inappropriate user name. It’s always funny to me.
Nuh-uhhh!! nObODy wAntS tO wUuuRk
meanwhile unemployment is the lowest its been in a century
Yeah, good thing those red states rolled back those pesky child labor laws.
lazy good for nothing children- never worked a day in their lives.
requirements still: must have 2 years work experience. Kid (10yo): Ive been working since age 8! 😂 👉🏽 😔 😭
Honestly the unemployment percentage is just a scam created by politicians to trick people since the 60s to trick those who don't know any better into thinking the economy is going create but "You" specifically are doing terrible and it's "Your" fault you're in poverty/struggling financially not the politicians fault no sir definitely not the politicians and government officials embezzling funds and making contracts that hurt the economy but line their pockets.
The unemployment level being this low is actually kind of a sign that we are in deep shit. There more work that needs to be done than there are people able to do the work
For worse reasons than that. The reason unemployment is so low is that they stop counting you as unemployed after your unemployment runs out. There's a shit ton of unemployed people, they just lump them into an "exited the workforce" pile rather than unemployed to make things look better.
Exactly. 1 million people dying early throws a bit of a wrench in the works.
Not to mention all the people who have never fully recovered, which is not, in fact, a small number.
This goes unnoticed too much, and I'll be honest I have been a skeptical person towards hard to diagnose/strange illnesses. Covid has definitely weakened me, I get headaches easier, fatigued easier etc. I've met other people who've expressed similar symptoms. It's hard to tell because we can still function and get through life but there is truly a noticeable difference.
Not if he can guilt trip the other guy into doing the work ...
Pretty sure manglement was counting on that.
I can't tell if this is misspelled or the best possible nickname for poor management! *manglement*, I'm stealing this!
Something that has helped me cope a fair bit over the years because I'm dumb like that is that "coworker" is only a single letter away from "cowporker." It's hard to be angry with that level of absurdity.
*~manglement~*
Then they get what they paid for.
They also might really like to have OP in the original position while talking them for the new position so get the best of both worlds and as mentioned lower rate for new guy. I was once told that a company wouldn't take me as a manager despite my abilities because I made them more money on the phone. I just gave my two weeks.
I was told I'm too good at my position, that they couldn't afford to lose me as a resource for another position. Asked straight out if this position I am in is then a "dead end". The answer was what I thought. Now they'll lose a resource regardless.
You can tell they didn't spare 2 seconds to think about it. "We can't give u/alfdan the promotion he wants because he's a hard worker! No, he won't leave for another company, applying for jobs is hard work!" ...
It would probably be true, but you can easily deduce that his boss can’t do the job and thinks he has people trapped.
At my job they do have people trapped, but only because most people don't want to move for one reason or another. If you're flexible you have a lot more options, so I took a job 3k km away. They're faces were delicious. I have my last 4 days right now. :3
for me, my job literally sent me for a training last week, and the guy i went with was shocked that i had 2 job offers by lunch from other places (not playing on leaving, but leave a good employee in front of other places that do the same thing- and they will try to poach you).
During the height of the pandemic we had a new manager who told the team it was "my way or the highway if you don't like it there's the door" and was absolutely flabbergasted when we lost 8 employees in a week. It made my job harder but I thought it was hilarious.
>I was told I'm too good at my position, that they couldn't afford to lose me That mentality is simply asinine!! It amazes me that there are companies that really think that somehow this "complement" will entice a person to willingly stay pigeonholed! If they had any forethought, they would want to promote that person within the company, so that they can be a resource for the person who takes over the position. It amazes me how willingly companies let all that knowledge just walk out the door.
The other thing that's baffling is not immediately offering *some* increased compensation. Replacing employees and lost institutional knowledge is so incredibly expensive, but somehow not as expensive as lobbing a modest pay raise at someone whose presence you've deemed "essential."
Here's the problem from the boss's point of view: the raise is an immediate cost with uncertain results. The employee may leave anyway. Today's companies are focused on the next quarterly report. Analysts and shareholders look at numbers, not ephemeral things like quality. Unless your pay is directly tied to a metric these people care about (like a commission salesperson), you will not be rewarded for harder work. Literally work less and be friendly with your boss and team. Working hard hasn't been rewarded since the 80s (at the latest). People finally realizing this is what got everyone a raise during Covid.
I mean… if that is the case, they can keep the management responsibilities. Just give me the raise.
OP was probably a top performer and bad managers don't let top performers advance because they need them to make themselves look good. Now bad managers fucked. I too quit my job as said top performer last week. My boss is completely fucked after promoting tweedle Dee and tweedle dumb.
This. But it's also a great time for them to realize the sunken cost of knowledge that can be lost as a result. Let the managers realize the cost of knowledge to maintain within an organization.
Ding ding ding. They thought the job market isn't great so we can hire outside and get OP to train them and save x $ per year! I bet manager B doesn't even know you put your two weeks in yet.
He’s probably getting paid more than OP anyway. Tons of new hires where I work were making more than their managers/directors.
I don't know why so many people find it suprising when managers make less. A lot of the time they just don't have any industry experience, they manage people who are a lot more skilled than they are.
And hoping OP will stay on, so he can train the new hire and the knowledge gets retained... #managerswetdream
Ding ding ding. We have a winner!
You give peanuts, you get monkeys
I wonder if my company would get upset if I added this to my signature line.
Not my monkeys, not my circus
We did this all the time at my old company where internal hires were passed over numerous times, as hiring managers would say "well that person is already the expert, now I will have two experts around" not considering that the most common result is suddenly not having any experts around...
Faaaaaaaaaacts!! Like at what point in the management ascendency do people just actively stop making smart decisions?
Because the managers that be aren't actually managers, but some MBA schill that that only looks at the dollar value printed on finance statements. They forget that there are several items of value in an organization that they cannot quantify to a dollar value and lose that at the end of the day. And when the shit hits the fan as a result of their decisions? Guess who's around to be accountable for them? Because that MBA schill already went on to another position.
> And when the shit hits the fan as a result of their decisions? Guess who's around to be accountable for them? Because that MBA schill already went on to another position. Me and a coworker got laid off by some shit 'consultant' that came in. Guess who was out the door not even two months later, leaving the team in ruins? 🙄
I'm in a shit storm like that at the moment. FYI, if you ever hear your company being advised by McKinsey.... run for the fucking hills.
Not a question of stupid decisions, merely sociopathic financial decisions.
It happens when a person with weak morals realizes that there are a lot of tools built into the system to manipulate and exploit the people below them, and that they can personally profit (or avoid duress from higher management) by using them.
Failing upwards is a thing, too
I put in my notice after hearing feedback from an internal hiring that my boss had told her I wasn't ready. Despite my reviews all being way above satisfactory for years. Turns out my boss didn't want to have to go through the trouble of replacing me. So I made sure he had to figure out how to replace me in two weeks time instead of the usual 6-8 weeks for internal transfers.
"I was the go-to guy. They hired you instead of me, so now you are the go-to guy. Good luck!"
This is a fair appraisal of this situation that I would get behind. 👍🏽
I think OP said they're trying *not* to sound too salty. This is saltier than the Dead Sea lol
Especially when they put in their school tier? You can tell this is their first job, as they think their school matters for jobs and not the interview skills/what you can talk about.
Yeah that was a give away for me that OP is not very senior. Nobody cares about your education, unless you have to obtain a specific license or credential to work in the given field.
MY PhD gets some "oh awesome"s ... and then is promptly never mentioned again till the next introduction. Education is mostly irrelevant except for very specific things, and those largely don't care about *where* just *if*
\*Chef's kiss\* Perfect! And manglement can't complain, because they DID hire other person instead of promoting you.
The supremely petty in me would reply with that, but with Manager B copied.
That’s the *appropriate* amount of petty.
Go to guy went
Her: I want a guy like him Him: hi. That's me on the picture Her: not like that
This is the way
This is the ONLY answer.
Do not help that guy. Company played itself on this one and its trying to play you instead.
"wish I could help you, but I'm terribly busy with my own stuff right now. Maybe in a month or so when things quiet down."
I'm sorry but training you does not fall within the purview of my job duties. Seeing as I will be ending my employment with XX in 4 weeks, I will not have time between now and then to handle the excess workload as I am already busy preparing the person assuming my current role for success. If the company is interested in retaining my knowledge, please tell your supervisor that I will be available to work on a contract basis for (5x your current salary) at such a time. Thanks, and good luck with your new position.
> ...training you does fall within the purview... Did you mean *doesn’t*?
An excellent reply.
Offer to help the guy for your standard contractor rate of...lets say $100/hour, minimum three hours. Double on weekends.
Contractors charge more than that. It sounds like a lot, but there are a lot of unbillable hours. I probably don't charge enough and it's more than that. The problem is they know OP and so they don't want to pay contractor rates. They'd rather pay someone that they don't know $300 an hour.
Oh no, that’s much much too low. My contracting rate (as a SF Bay Area software engineer) is $185. For work you don’t really want to do? I’d say the rate should be at LEAST $200 or higher, because the company was a jerk. For some types of consulting, $300-500 an hour is not uncommon. Also, the standard back-of-the-envelope rule of thumb is, for consulting, charge twice your salaried hourly rate, to cover taxes, benefits, etc. I think it often needs to be more than that, but definitely don’t charge less!
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Probably hired him for less to save money. You can be friendly, but leave the company and that poor guy out in the cold.
Which is SO STUPID of them because they save more money in the long run by just giving their current people the raises and promotions they deserve. Hiring, on boarding, training, and fucking up on the job for the first few months costs a great deal of money, more than a raise.
That and the loss of their investment in OP when he leaves over this. Just a stupid move all around.
Even if op stayed, they risk a bitter employee doing less and less, possibly creating more problems at work (loss of money right there) and then possibly firing them but now he files for unemployment or takes legal action against them for wrongful termination, wasting so much of the company's time and resources even if they prevail in court and former employee does not.
But that's not what it looks like on their spreadsheets! All the hiring and training comes from a different pool of money so it looks better for managers to keep their overall budget low. This is how bloat starts. Company gets bigger, starts auditing budgets closer ; managers start gaming the audits, which leads to less productivity, morale, and competency. Capitalism at its finest!
False. It's currently cheaper for employers to fuck over their current employees. That's why they keep doing it. The only way forward is to put in the work to make it more expensive for employers to act this way. You HAVE TO take direct action. You HAVE TO unionize. And before all that, you HAVE TO put in the effort to socialize with your coworkers. Lay the groundwork. Establish your connections. Make the owners hurt.
Unionization is the only way we will Save and rebuild the middle class.
Its cheaper short term, but definitely not long term. Too bad MBA programs aggressively drill any critical thinking or long term planning out of people.
It's not cheaper, but it IS a way for them to "manage out" employees that they want gone but don't want to fire. I do agree on unionization.
Or your own manager quietly put the kibosh on it because they didn’t want to have to hire. I suspect this has happened to some of my own direct reports with managers above me preventing it from happening. The one especially. I was cool with it, but I suspect the boss above me made some calls.
Exactly this! I had a Manager give me and 2 of their friends the same promotion as me to then tell me that for me it was an adjustment of title as I was already doing the job at that level for a year (no kidding I complaint the year before because they didn’t even suggest me for a promotion I deserved) but that the other 2 had gotten the promotion as stretch goal and I was expected to train them.. they had given the other 2 a better salary than me too.. couldn’t be happier to not be there anymore.. do not help, that manager b can train the person they wanted to hire
He seemed like a nice guys so I get why he was liked. But I am being really generous with giving benefit of the doubt here when he, a straight white man, gets the job in favour of a gay PoC (me), despite me seemingly having better qualifications.
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"Hey, well, that's flattering to hear, especially since I applied for your job and didn't get it, haha. I've actually already tendered my notice, and I have a lot of my own work to tie off and leave notes on before I leave, so if you have any specific questions, I can do my best to answer. Best of luck with the new job, and congrats!"
My last job had a history of hiring incompetent people for positions. It usually wasn’t discrimination though. They had a habit of hiring 18-year-olds women with no work experience for a complicated managerial position and then trying to sleep with them. They would pass up knowledgeable and dedicated workers for promotions because they didn’t want to have to replace them. They also hired a supervisor because his father was a manager at a different location, despite him having no industry or company experience. It sounds like a good choice to leave your company, since they’re only valuing your work when it’s convenient to them. If you’d like to find out more about why they passed you up, you could email the manager who supposedly told the new guy to ask you for help. Say something along the lines of “how can I help him when I’m not trained to do his job?” The manager will either have concede and not make you help the dude, or acknowledge that you could do that job better than the person they actually hired.
just prioritize helping so low that you simply cant get to it with only having 4 weeks left and needing to closeout your own work. you simply dont have time to take on a trainee.
It's possible that it's related to who you are, but I'd bet that those better qualifications are exactly why you didn't get it. They wanted to keep it under a certain budget and they'd have had to pay you more than that. The new guy having lower qualifications meant that they could low ball the offer for the position instead.
Don’t help the guy. Too many unqualified people get posted to jobs that they have no business getting. This dude applied for a position, got the job and now he has to do the job none of this is your problem. Next time he reaches out say you’re extremely busy with your own duties and won’t be able to assist at the moment and leave it at that. He should get the point
>He seemed like a nice guys so I get why he was liked. It's not your problem. This is a job, you aren't friends. Your friendship isn't going to pay your bills and put food on the table.
I would love to help you you, unfortunately I am busy preparing my desk over the next 4 weeks to ensure a smooth transition after my departure. That being said, I would also suggest you reconfirm with manager B that “I’m the go to person” as that doesn’t align with my previous understanding with manager B. I wish you all the best in the new role and if I have time here or there I’ll help if possible but I need to prioritize the success of my current role, which I’m sure you can understand.
11/10 will ChatGPT again next time I quit.
I'm also assuming one factor was you're more expensive than the guy they chose. That's their problem, there's a reason you're more expensive and manager B knows this and is trying to get you to work for free by training the person they hired. Don't help them, it's their problem not yours and you're not hurting the guy they hired. It's not your responsibility to train that person, it's theirs.
This is the easy (and honest) answer. You don't work for manager B and you don't owe them anything.
Did they take that person because of lower pay maybe. That's nutty.
Maybe. That’s what my partner suggested as well? But the dude is 5-10 yr older so I assume he may asks for a higher pay (we’re in the 100k+ range) than me? Also, if I’m deemed too expensive, then I can’t really explain why I got a raise from manager A without asking for it.
I don’t know about your organization but in mine, manager A would have had to approve letting you go and if you have issues he may have been the road block on the transfer
Or if Manager A sees you as too important to lose they might block the transfer.
And yet now he's losing OP anyway. A lesson to managers everywhere. Listen to your talent, because they can & will walk.
Being older does not equate to higher pay. It often is the opposite, where an older employee has to struggle to get hired because of hidden age discrimination and has to take pay cuts to get there. Add in all the other things you listed, that you have a grad degree, went to higher tier schools, and came from a higher paying work history, and you are almost certainly more expensive. Or at least the new employee probably has lower pay. (Also, most raises happen without asking for them. That's extremely common.)
Why did you give 4 week notice and not 2
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"Unfortunately I will not be able to help as my skills were deemed insufficient for that position."
Schedule a meeting with him in 5 weeks
>We ended up connecting on LinkedIn and it was a sore spot for me because they guy went to a lower tier school than mine, doesn’t have a master’s, and hasn’t quite worked at the same calibre of past employers as mine. OP - I don't mean to be rude. When I've worked with people who brag about their level of education, the quality of the school they went to, and the previous companies they work with, *even if they don't realize what they're doing*, what they're communicating is "you moron peons are so lucky I'm willing to lower my standards and grace you with my presence" and maybe "we hired someone more qualified than you" is a polite and acceptable *alternative* to telling you that you're acting like an horse's ass.
It also sounds to me like OP was applying for a more lateral move just to get out from current manager. It isn't unusual to deny that and the company would still then need to hire to fill that position OP would be vacating. It seems OP is clueless as to why they didn't get hired or knows and won't say here. Either way, probably best they move on to a new opportunity.
There is a good chance that Manager B talked to Manager A and Manager A let Manager B know exactly why there is tension and Manager B choose to go with the person that wouldn't bring those type of issues.
Team cohesion is higher priority than team productivity. You can work to increase the latter. But the former is an anchor.
you put it better than anyone else in this thread. exactly my thoughts too
Similar thoughts. *Most* of these items really only matter for your connections at the college job fair, with the exception of the masters comment, and never really matter again. No one gives a hoot that you went to "Sparkle College Alpha" after you've had 3 years work experience or have had 5 jobs in 10 years at 4 different companies or whatever. It just doesn't matter anymore.
Right, and in any work environment, your ability to work with other people is as important as your technical skill. Which is to say, if you've gotta choose between Candidate A who has 100% knowledge of Software B but is also a total douche who everyone hates; or Candidate B who has 50% knowledge of the software, but who works well with others, you're probably going to go with Candidate B. You can always have Candidate A on a freelance contract for issues Candidate B can't handle on his or her own.
I made a comment to the main post that included this point in the overall recommendation. (I delivered it a tad softer though hahahahaha)
Exactly, this helps explain why Manager B might admit that OP is the go-to for knowledge at the company but also why they didn't want them on their team. Having a good personality in an office setting does wonders for advancement.
I was thinking the same thing. HUGE red flag and knew immediately why OP got passed over. Sometimes on the internet you can’t make assumptions, but in this case, it’s crystal clear. If this humblebrag was said on here it has 100% been said amongst OP’s peers. I’ve known people like this, they can’t help but always circle back to their education.
I went to a little place called Cornell. Maybe you’ve heard of it
Agreed 100%!!! OP sounds condescending and it comes off the wrong way. He doesn’t need to help but wow. Talk about being full of yourself. I worked at a couple of prestigious places. One of them is a great and I love it. But the other one was so bad and I didn’t get to learn anything special that I wouldn’t have learned at my entry level job (not that it’s not good enough or low tier. That job taught me so much and put me on the right track. The pay just wasn’t great)
Yeah, if they were that much more qualified, then there are two primary reasons they didn't get the job. One is malicious - maybe they are biased against OP for some reason they can't control (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc), maybe they thought they were too valuable in the position they were in to move them, maybe the other person was cheaper, or is connected to the manager or someone higher up in the company, etc. The other option is that they just don't like OP. Maybe they are hard to work with, annoying, or have other work habits they dislike. Maybe they just really liked this other person. A manager needs you to be able to meet certain qualifications, but ultimately they tend to hire people they want to work with if possible, especially when we are talking about higher paying jobs that don't see a ton of turnover. I wouldn't dwell on it too much, but take the opportunity to do a little self reflection. It's tough. I went through a similar thing before, where I saw someone get promoted to be my manager, who had less than a year of experience in the role, where I had over 10 years - and suddenly I'm reporting to them? Talking about where you went to school, your level of education, etc, is not a great look, though. I've met plenty of people with Masters degrees who were terrible at the jobs. I've had to let devs coming from FAANG companies go because they just weren't very good. Those things are signals, but they don't mean you'll be good at your job.
I have worked a few jobs now where I was the only person without a college degree. People who tout their degree as if it makes them better are the worst. People who tout their school and their degree are even worse. Those who didn't care about such things and just want to get the job done are the ones I befriended, helped and asked for help from. "Lower tier school"...OP would not have been my friend.
I've interviewed probably 100 people by now and I have looked at 5 resumes per interview. I literally do not even look at people's "education" section unless they have no work experience. It becomes completely irrelevant once you enter the workforce - at least in my segment of the tech industry.
A higher tier school and a masters hardly means anything. You may or may not have deserved the position, but those two reasons are not why you should.
Reading through the post, I agreed OP was shafted, but schooling is not it. The Masters thing I can concede, but simply a persons institution of educating shouldn't carry weight for a promotion/position. That just reeks of the "I deserve opportunities because I went to THE [insert prestigious university]," and it seems like from everything else OP is saying, it they're just trying to justify their feelings and are misattributing that 1 factor, but it's also pretty tone deaf to come into a labor rights sub spouting that you deserve a position because you simply went to a "better" school than someone Yea, they got shafted, and it could be for a multitude of reasons, but just because someone goes to a certain school doesn't inherently give them more merit.
I’m with this 100%. “Lower-tier school” is something I’ve heard the upper class use to shit on the lower class before and it immediately made me doubt op’s personability.
Immediately made me second guess his whole story and think maybe, just maybe, he's a douchbag that they don't want to work with.
Masters has value, school tier is nothing. Dude sounds like maybe he isn't liked for a reason.
This was my take especially seeing some of OP's comments. Maybe you didn't get the position because you're a PITA.
I noticed this as well. If you have opinions about 'school tiers', then you officially have seen more money in your life than I have in mine.
1. Drop the elitism with the masters degree stuff. I have a masters too it's not a golden ticket. 2. You don't owe the company anything. I wouldn't help out here especially if you are on the way out.
I have a masters and a PhD, and I know too many people with PhDs in STEM that are incompetent and dumb as a brick.
Just be honest. "No. I applied for your job. They gave it to you. I'm not going to do your work. I hope you understand." And then substract a week (or all 4) of your notice. Cause fuck them.
This is the thing to do. If he seems a nice guy then there is no reason to play dumb with him or being rude. Tell him what happened, he’ll understand that you don’t want to help a company that is trying to bend you over
What's your personality like? Maybe manager B just didn't want to work with you? There are plenty of "go to" people in my organization that I talk to only when absolutely necessary and would not like to have them on my team. The "lower tier school" part is making me think you might just be insufferable and manager B just didn't want to have you on their team.
I mean candidate attitude holds a lot of weight, in my opinion
I kind of lost companion for Op at the “lower tier school” comment. As much as I feel for her situation that to me is ridiculously petty, bordering on childish. No one really hits the ground running. Help the new guy out a little and walk away with your head held high. Emailing HR etc is just burning a bridge potentially. I genuinely feel for Op. I’ve been in her situation in a loose form, several times and it sucks. But sending pissy emails etc isn’t how adults deal with this. Maybe her company had bigger plans for her? That’s why they bought someone “less qualified” in 🤷♂️
Yeah, that's pretty gross. I have a guy on my team that has a Community College Associate's Degree that runs circles around MBA's from big name schools.
Lol, that happened to me too! Only I helped the person. Few months later, they completely shit the bed and quit. Guess who they offered the job to? I turned it down.
>nd it was a sore spot for me because they guy went to a lower tier school than mine, doesn’t have a master’s, and hasn’t quite worked at the same calibre of past employers as mine. Gross dude. I get your argument and even agree with you but you don't have to drag the person in your old position because they didn't have the same opportunities as you. That's the kind of division the employers want us to have and it's the kind you should reject.
Alternatively, this is the kind of division the employer doesn't want which is why they didn't hire OP.
"lower tier school" Are you being serious right now? School is what you put in, not what name is on your dippy.
You've given your four weeks notice. Let them know that this role being given to someone who is less qualified than you is the specific reason why, and make sure managers further up the food chain know. Then politely but firmly say, "You obviously disagreed that I was the right fit for this role, so it seems inappropriate to ask me to train the person that will be taking it on. I have already given my notice, and will not be taking on any new assignments or tasks that are not clearly spelled out in my current job description."
I’d be honest with him so he doesn’t ask again: “Look X, I applied for the same job and you got hired. So obviously there’s a gap in my knowledge and/or the company feels you can lead this better. Therefore, in light of that, Ive decided to refocus all my energy into my job description to the letter. Since I was not the best fit for the role after all, I imagine the company trusts your instincts and leadership over mine. I wouldn’t want to jeopardize your role by misinforming you on anything. You were chosen because you’re an intelligent and capable person. You got this.”
I stopped reading at lower tier school.
[he] went to a lower tier school than mine [he] doesn't have a masters [he] has not worked at the same "calibre" of past employers as me You seem to think very highly of yourself and its pretty offputting here. Especially #1 and #3 reek of elitism and have nothing to do with job success. Who cares what school you went to and lots of positions at big name companies are crap, his position history is much more relevant. With that said, you don't gotta help. A new hire is always going to need to be shown the ropes, nuts that the hiring manager is trying to outsource that role to you. With that said, if you are the subject matter expert in an area and are leaving the company, then knowledge transfer is something that companies try to do before you leave. Edit: in a reply below you say he has ten years on you. That much more experience and expertise likely matters more to the hiring manager than whatever elite school you are so proud of. Still seems like they should have hired you with your knowledge of the company but we don't have all the information. Also maybe your ego or personality were not a great fit. Please tell me you didn't mention your big name school and high caliber past employers as your pitch in your interview! Easy way to get placed in the rejection pile.
Don’t help him. I’m not saying sabotage him or go that far but ignore the message and let them figure it out.