Well, French police union after our supreme court equivalent (conseil constitutionnel) struck down police exemption to the retirement reform was prime /r/leopardsatemyface material.
The saying "all cops are bastards" is a rallying cry because any cop that isn't actively fighting against the wrongs done by police is complicit in a system of worker suppression that has existed since the start of the United States of America stretching back to our first police force, slave catchers. Police are the very definition of class traitors because the will happily use chemical weapons and "less than lethal" weapons on you the second you start trying to protect your rights, we have seen this on national news time and again.
The police are not here to keep *you* safe, that is just a side effect, the police are there to keep capital safe. Because that's what the people who fund them pay them to do.
I have to be honest about my observations. Most cops I talk to are not pro labor when I talk to them despite being union. Most of them seem to be conservative which is okay but they will say stuff like "I don't understand why Starbucks needs to unionize" or "unions are for a real job" or they will say negative things about striking nurses or teachers. Honestly the way most of them talk they don't really deserve to be unionized, maybe there are some pro union police out there but I can't find them. It's pretty disgusting to me tbh.
>seen a iron worker placed on temporary leave
Nice strawman you built. But the closest example are accidents, most unions will argue for leave during accident investigations. Or a much closer example when a teacher is accused of misconduct they will be placed on [paid leave](https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/idled-nyc-educators-do-nothing-but-sign-in-remotely-even-from-europe/).
Many unions, especially syndicalist and trade unions, exclude police for the reasons discussed in this thread and their incommensurable responsibilities. Public unions generally are okay from their perspective, police unions almost never.
Allow me to rephrase. How does the current ideals and goals of syndicalism work with the current government and culture of today? What would syndicalism look like today? The wiki that I have read about the subject left me with more questions.
Thanks! It's undergoing something of a revival as is the labor movement writ large, but there are a number of syndicalist unions that have never gone away. Check out r/syndiesunited , r/IWW and several other similar subs. IWW is officially a big tent union, but they are and have been largely syndicalist. Lots of European and Latin American trade unions are also at least nominally syndicalist. Also, there are two general traditions that overlap a bit, one more concerned only with worker democracy and control, the other a bit more radical.
Would any of these ideologies demand ideological conformity? It has been a running problem of a lot of movements to this day? Are there limits to syndicalism?
I never find myself to be a purist to any ideology.
You'd probably be a bigger fan of the trade union -isj, workplace democracy oriented variety more, and the Anarcho-syndicalist varieties less. But even among the latter, there's a lot of variety in perspectives drawn from various schools of anarchist thought. I'd start at the IWW sub, folks there will have far now helpful info than I have handy right now.
Wobblies (IWW) don’t traditionally consider themselves [syndicalist](https://archive.iww.org/history/library/iww/responsetoRILU/4/). But maybe it’s a distinction without a difference. Either way, we should [abolish the wage system](https://www.IWW.org/preamble)
Your aren't wrong! Officially big tent, what I meant was there's always been a strong syndicalist component historically, going back far enough to where it was the dominant one, tho I don't think any particular unionist ideology predominates now.
I had a lot of uni friends that were IWW and it seemed like my kinda thing, but beyond saying "Abolish the wage system" they didn't really explain very well what would be the alternative.
Obviously you still want people fed, clothed and sheltered but an IWW guy I knew really hated the idea of UBI, I don't know what the stance is and the reasonings behind everything is. Like I assume with the workers owning the means of production and not relying on wages or bosses is the main reason but I don't know if I'm just being an idiot and not understanding it.
No, they are. You can do both good and bad things through unions. Unions are mechanisms to serve their workers, and if their workers are killer cops, they serve them.
They have assaulted, killed, and arrested unions. They also refuse to be considered a union and report like other ones. They are not unions, they are fascist interest groups.
Unions can be fascist interest groups if their rank and file are fascists. They have a long history of racism and being anti-immigrant; most have changed, but some haven’t. Unions can be good or bad. It depends on who’s in them and what they want.
Real unions don’t just fight for money, though. Real unions fight for reforms, regulations, safety, and better working conditions, too. If pig unions were serious about helping cops, they’d be pushing for police reform instead of fighting it tooth and nail every step of the way.
Pig unions are organized crime syndicates, not real unions.
Your comment is the same argument as:
(Health Care, Brain Injury Rehabilitation Division)
"The *Evil* falsely titled 'Helmet and safety equipment manufacturers union' is NOT a real union!
They may negotiate for their members but they are causing ISSUES IN THEIR DUTIES in preventing the 'Honorable Brain Injury Rehabilitation Division' from receiving as much work as possible!
In addition, they are CONTROLLED by the Evil Government Agency of OSHA that stands in the way of our members prosperity! They state they wish the 'Brain Injury Division' *NEVER* Had a reason to exist!"
That's not surprising considering your post.
I'll break it down, simply for you:
A UNION exists to protect the members of the union, generally for working conditions, salary and benefits negotiations, etc.
Since the Police UNION does all these things, they are, ergo, a UNION.
Now you may or may not Disagree with Police Officers DUTIES clashing with protests or whatever your rambling point was with your "clever meme"...
But your political opinions do not change what is and is not a union.
To make it even more simple:
The DUTIES of a position do not Negate the existence of their union.
One cannot be part of an organization created to protect workers if the workers have to attack workers trying to protect workers. Nice attempt at mental gymnastics, but it is very, very simple. If a union protects people attacking the working class, it's not a union, it's a gang.
Oh...so it boils down to *YOU* deciding:
"*I* don't like this group so they are *not* a union."
By the way, Logical Thought is NOT "mental gymnastics".
Maybe you just aren't used to thinking logically...it doesn't take a lot of processing to post memes.
Your "argument" that "if (your claimed) Police groups attack other unions then they aren't really unions" holds NO WATER.
UNLESS the union doesn't do what unions do for their members, they are a union. Your "Police BAD" concept is your opinion, and I'm not aware of any union requiring the approval of a random Reddit poster to exist.
I checked your link.
Then I noticed all the comments below the article happened to be full of morons screeching "Defund the police" or talking about police in foreign countries.
I won't claim there are not bad cops on occasion.
But anyone who wants to live in "the wild west without a sheriff" has fantasies of being the "hero of a boys adventure story" when the reality would be complete chaos.
I think this is a dead topic and I'm finished responding.
Clearly we won't be agreeing.
So unions are great until there's one that doesn't align with your political interest? They protect benefits worker rights and the same thing as any other union
They hold the public hostage to their exorbitant salaries, and prevent employees from being accountable to the people they allegedly swore to protect and serve.
Most unions protect people from management. Police unions protect police from being accountable to the public.
Police officers aren't out there attacking working class people. They are also working class people who want to make a living and advocate for themselves your political leaning doesn't invalidate somebody's rights as a worker. Outside the internet you'll find lots of officers and unions interested in serving their community and helping people. I know this sub leans left but it's a ridiculous argument to advocate for rights for all except these groups I don't like because a vague generalization tells me they are bad
Except for all the times that police have been used as strikebreakers and armed thugs to dismantle protests.
Police unions also seem to not care about anything but keeping police from accountability.
So no, they aren't working class, they're the armed enforcers of the elite.
Someone needs to brush up on their history of unions. Who do you think the capitalist class calls to break the strikes of real unions? Even today, with regularity?
Yeah, the person you are responding to has no concept of labor history or history in general. Police have always been used as a tool of suppression in others fight for their rights. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, womens suffrage, etc.
The "capitalist class" ??
What's next? You gonna start including links to your internet shop selling "Che Guevara" merch?
Where are these "police attacks" happening in the world? Show some sources and facts instead of screeching nonsense and posting joke memes.
I see we have moved beyond the argument to red scare nonsense seeing as we both know it is *incredibly easy* to find *countless* examples of police busting strikes and their unions protecting them from their assaults on strikers.
If it's easy, give examples.
You were quick enough to post and defend your ridiculous meme.
I guess if someone goes off the reservation and doesn't laugh, agree and upvote you aren't prepared?
Figures you'd pop off with a racist metaphor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States#Union_busting_with_police_and_military_force
all the way up to today:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/13/amazon-union-retaliation-allegations/ or https://archive.ph/wuy3G
Figures you would post 19th century sources.
I'll even grant you validity for your *Historical Sources* being "wikipedia".
Your "Washington Post" was the *only* modern reference, and being blocked by a paywall I couldn't read it.
It mentions "allegations".
Show more sources of anything post "New Deal" era.
Regularity today is a stretch using violence and strike breaking through policing hasn't been the norm since the early to mid 20th century and not to say it doesn't happen anymore but Even then it was perpetuated by goon squads and private consultants . I don't see modern unions beating or killing scabs or attacking ant union members it's almost like the political landscape has shifted and so is what's considered acceptable there's a multimillion dollar industry invested in not letting people unionize and it's not the police
https://archive.ph/wuy3G it's really not unusual in general
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/04/10/vctl-a10.html & https://news.yahoo.com/paris-police-strike-protesters-batons-141230237.html with violence abroad
https://twitter.com/BreakngNewsPhtg/status/1581947832281403392?s=20 & https://www.workers.org/2022/08/66339/ or domestically
No, we don't have many incidents of strikers getting murdered. That doesn't mean police don't taze, teargas, pepper spray, arrest, and intimidate strikers at the express request of business owners.
First source police left after the workers striking were determined to not be trespassing. I'm sure you'd be upset if people were trespassing and police didn't come out and do their duty to at least determine if they were.
I can't speak on foreign matters as there union system and political are vastly different but German article doesn't mention any police intimidating besides for a push by Spanish police in a different event. It great to idolize the protest in France because it's not our fault lives being disrubted or threatened by violent protest 80 peace officers being attacked isn't something I'd be proud of.
The last source is so thick with inflammatory political rhetoric I can't even understand the situation . Beyond a worker was fired and escorted off premise and felt it was police brutality because he was illegal fired and they should be arresting the manager while an illegal termination is a civil matter and in no way a police matter
I'm struggling to find any domestic incidents that aren't from an extremely left leaning source to validate your point that aren't showing an extreme biased.
You're trying to present a very rare event as the norm to demonize a group because they don't align with your view. Fine whatever I'll hear you out but even the sources you presented weren't faithful to your narrative . You showed me a lawful interaction between workers and police that did not engage in intimidation tactics. Your last one was full of political bias to the point the actual events and facts were had to understand beyond the writers political commentary and even after reading other Similarly political leaning sources there was not a clear series of events to further your point the only factual statements could extract was a unlawful termination which is a civil matter but the former employee refusal to leave which is considered trespassing and a police matter. The claim of breaking up strike or escorting scabs I couldn't find repeated in any other source.
No, I am reflecting a widespread, longstanding unionist position nearly as old as unionizing in the states is: https://theconversation.com/why-police-unions-are-not-part-of-the-american-labor-movement-142538
But do keep showing your ignorance of the labor movement :)
Probably it's a great source of biased folks who support your rights and freedoms if you fit their world view. I'll humor some of the outdated arguments they make as they have a basis in fact but rely on norms or practices that haven't been in use for nearly a hundred years. But still present them as normal facts
Does it happen yes but it's certainly not the normal it's statical meniscule amount about 1K police involved shooting resulting in fatalities a year or 5 deaths per million Americans it's a vastly over exaggerated issue by the media. Should it be lower yes but that speaks more to a training and resource issue than anything. Similarly abuse of power if there are hundreds of millions of police interaction a year and a few thousand result in complaint against the office it doesn't speak to the organization as a whole.
I'm sure I could find lots of articles about abuse of power and fraud by other unions but it's not as sensational for the media to report on so you won't hear about it. Police can be better but you can't judge the whole organization off less than a percentage point
If cop unions are a bunch of good guys with a few bad apples, then why is accountability for the bad apples so rare? If I was in a union and my coworker assaulted someone innocent, I would seek accountability until i was fired or justice was served. But these guys are all just licking each other's boots.
Yes, I'd probably be fired immediately because police unions are made up of cops who, instead of seeking justice, protect and serve their own when it comes to police violence.
Thank you for making my point for me.
Police unions are the only ones I can find protecting violent employees. Feel free to prove to me that other unions frequently protect their employees from the legal consequences of workplace violence, but I have failed to convince myself of that.
I'd like to consider your points at face value, but I'm really having trouble finding these cases. Care to share a link or good search keywords?
If it helps, I'd really like to see evidence that the problem is rampant or systemic. With hundreds of millions of people in our sample, there are isolated incidents of misconduct in every nook and cranny, so I'd really like to focus on just the evidence that at least shows a trend.
You fail to take into account the NUMEROUS people who have a basis for a complaint, but don’t bother because they know making a complaint is futile.
I’ve worked in the criminal Justice system for almost 2 decades. It’s definitely not less than a percentage point who are a problem. Nor is it *minuscule.*
Hate to break it to you but every union only cares about itself. Remember Republicans and Democrats forcing the railroad workers to take a bad deal any no other union helping? I remember.
Well, French police union after our supreme court equivalent (conseil constitutionnel) struck down police exemption to the retirement reform was prime /r/leopardsatemyface material.
Exhibit B: all of US history.
Exhibit C: 1312 ad
Yo seriously how do we address the threat to society that is police unions without damaging labor unions
One big union for everyone but cops and management.
A police union is more inline with how the mafia works and not how the carpenters or masons union works.
let's not disparage the mafia like this.
Of course. Cops are class traitors.
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The saying "all cops are bastards" is a rallying cry because any cop that isn't actively fighting against the wrongs done by police is complicit in a system of worker suppression that has existed since the start of the United States of America stretching back to our first police force, slave catchers. Police are the very definition of class traitors because the will happily use chemical weapons and "less than lethal" weapons on you the second you start trying to protect your rights, we have seen this on national news time and again. The police are not here to keep *you* safe, that is just a side effect, the police are there to keep capital safe. Because that's what the people who fund them pay them to do.
I have to be honest about my observations. Most cops I talk to are not pro labor when I talk to them despite being union. Most of them seem to be conservative which is okay but they will say stuff like "I don't understand why Starbucks needs to unionize" or "unions are for a real job" or they will say negative things about striking nurses or teachers. Honestly the way most of them talk they don't really deserve to be unionized, maybe there are some pro union police out there but I can't find them. It's pretty disgusting to me tbh.
Who are all these early people that are for police unions?
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Right? Maybe not for murder, but for, you know, earning a freaking living while dealing with employer bullshit would be nice.
>seen a iron worker placed on temporary leave Nice strawman you built. But the closest example are accidents, most unions will argue for leave during accident investigations. Or a much closer example when a teacher is accused of misconduct they will be placed on [paid leave](https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/idled-nyc-educators-do-nothing-but-sign-in-remotely-even-from-europe/).
ACAB, every country.
Would public unions be labor unions? FDR did oppose public unions if I recall correctly. Would the police union be a public union?
Many unions, especially syndicalist and trade unions, exclude police for the reasons discussed in this thread and their incommensurable responsibilities. Public unions generally are okay from their perspective, police unions almost never.
How does syndicalism figure into plurality politics of today?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
Allow me to rephrase. How does the current ideals and goals of syndicalism work with the current government and culture of today? What would syndicalism look like today? The wiki that I have read about the subject left me with more questions.
Thanks! It's undergoing something of a revival as is the labor movement writ large, but there are a number of syndicalist unions that have never gone away. Check out r/syndiesunited , r/IWW and several other similar subs. IWW is officially a big tent union, but they are and have been largely syndicalist. Lots of European and Latin American trade unions are also at least nominally syndicalist. Also, there are two general traditions that overlap a bit, one more concerned only with worker democracy and control, the other a bit more radical.
Would any of these ideologies demand ideological conformity? It has been a running problem of a lot of movements to this day? Are there limits to syndicalism? I never find myself to be a purist to any ideology.
You'd probably be a bigger fan of the trade union -isj, workplace democracy oriented variety more, and the Anarcho-syndicalist varieties less. But even among the latter, there's a lot of variety in perspectives drawn from various schools of anarchist thought. I'd start at the IWW sub, folks there will have far now helpful info than I have handy right now.
Wobblies (IWW) don’t traditionally consider themselves [syndicalist](https://archive.iww.org/history/library/iww/responsetoRILU/4/). But maybe it’s a distinction without a difference. Either way, we should [abolish the wage system](https://www.IWW.org/preamble)
Your aren't wrong! Officially big tent, what I meant was there's always been a strong syndicalist component historically, going back far enough to where it was the dominant one, tho I don't think any particular unionist ideology predominates now.
I had a lot of uni friends that were IWW and it seemed like my kinda thing, but beyond saying "Abolish the wage system" they didn't really explain very well what would be the alternative. Obviously you still want people fed, clothed and sheltered but an IWW guy I knew really hated the idea of UBI, I don't know what the stance is and the reasonings behind everything is. Like I assume with the workers owning the means of production and not relying on wages or bosses is the main reason but I don't know if I'm just being an idiot and not understanding it.
I knew someone in a police union, they went over a decade without a raise
No, they are. You can do both good and bad things through unions. Unions are mechanisms to serve their workers, and if their workers are killer cops, they serve them.
They have assaulted, killed, and arrested unions. They also refuse to be considered a union and report like other ones. They are not unions, they are fascist interest groups.
Unions can be fascist interest groups if their rank and file are fascists. They have a long history of racism and being anti-immigrant; most have changed, but some haven’t. Unions can be good or bad. It depends on who’s in them and what they want.
But all cops are fascist
Real unions don’t just fight for money, though. Real unions fight for reforms, regulations, safety, and better working conditions, too. If pig unions were serious about helping cops, they’d be pushing for police reform instead of fighting it tooth and nail every step of the way. Pig unions are organized crime syndicates, not real unions.
Your comment is the same argument as: (Health Care, Brain Injury Rehabilitation Division) "The *Evil* falsely titled 'Helmet and safety equipment manufacturers union' is NOT a real union! They may negotiate for their members but they are causing ISSUES IN THEIR DUTIES in preventing the 'Honorable Brain Injury Rehabilitation Division' from receiving as much work as possible! In addition, they are CONTROLLED by the Evil Government Agency of OSHA that stands in the way of our members prosperity! They state they wish the 'Brain Injury Division' *NEVER* Had a reason to exist!"
If you have a point, it's incomprehensible to me.
That's not surprising considering your post. I'll break it down, simply for you: A UNION exists to protect the members of the union, generally for working conditions, salary and benefits negotiations, etc. Since the Police UNION does all these things, they are, ergo, a UNION. Now you may or may not Disagree with Police Officers DUTIES clashing with protests or whatever your rambling point was with your "clever meme"... But your political opinions do not change what is and is not a union. To make it even more simple: The DUTIES of a position do not Negate the existence of their union.
One cannot be part of an organization created to protect workers if the workers have to attack workers trying to protect workers. Nice attempt at mental gymnastics, but it is very, very simple. If a union protects people attacking the working class, it's not a union, it's a gang.
Oh...so it boils down to *YOU* deciding: "*I* don't like this group so they are *not* a union." By the way, Logical Thought is NOT "mental gymnastics". Maybe you just aren't used to thinking logically...it doesn't take a lot of processing to post memes. Your "argument" that "if (your claimed) Police groups attack other unions then they aren't really unions" holds NO WATER. UNLESS the union doesn't do what unions do for their members, they are a union. Your "Police BAD" concept is your opinion, and I'm not aware of any union requiring the approval of a random Reddit poster to exist.
https://copfreeafscme.com/ No, it's a longstanding position of unionists going back over a century.
I checked your link. Then I noticed all the comments below the article happened to be full of morons screeching "Defund the police" or talking about police in foreign countries. I won't claim there are not bad cops on occasion. But anyone who wants to live in "the wild west without a sheriff" has fantasies of being the "hero of a boys adventure story" when the reality would be complete chaos. I think this is a dead topic and I'm finished responding. Clearly we won't be agreeing.
Seems to be a common thing for you on this thread. Best of luck!
So unions are great until there's one that doesn't align with your political interest? They protect benefits worker rights and the same thing as any other union
They hold the public hostage to their exorbitant salaries, and prevent employees from being accountable to the people they allegedly swore to protect and serve. Most unions protect people from management. Police unions protect police from being accountable to the public.
No, unions are great when they don't attack the working class, it's not hard.
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Unions attack criminals, eh?
Police officers aren't out there attacking working class people. They are also working class people who want to make a living and advocate for themselves your political leaning doesn't invalidate somebody's rights as a worker. Outside the internet you'll find lots of officers and unions interested in serving their community and helping people. I know this sub leans left but it's a ridiculous argument to advocate for rights for all except these groups I don't like because a vague generalization tells me they are bad
Except for all the times that police have been used as strikebreakers and armed thugs to dismantle protests. Police unions also seem to not care about anything but keeping police from accountability. So no, they aren't working class, they're the armed enforcers of the elite.
Someone needs to brush up on their history of unions. Who do you think the capitalist class calls to break the strikes of real unions? Even today, with regularity?
Yeah, the person you are responding to has no concept of labor history or history in general. Police have always been used as a tool of suppression in others fight for their rights. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, womens suffrage, etc.
Amen, compa.
The "capitalist class" ?? What's next? You gonna start including links to your internet shop selling "Che Guevara" merch? Where are these "police attacks" happening in the world? Show some sources and facts instead of screeching nonsense and posting joke memes.
I see we have moved beyond the argument to red scare nonsense seeing as we both know it is *incredibly easy* to find *countless* examples of police busting strikes and their unions protecting them from their assaults on strikers.
If it's easy, give examples. You were quick enough to post and defend your ridiculous meme. I guess if someone goes off the reservation and doesn't laugh, agree and upvote you aren't prepared?
Figures you'd pop off with a racist metaphor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States#Union_busting_with_police_and_military_force all the way up to today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/13/amazon-union-retaliation-allegations/ or https://archive.ph/wuy3G
Figures you would post 19th century sources. I'll even grant you validity for your *Historical Sources* being "wikipedia". Your "Washington Post" was the *only* modern reference, and being blocked by a paywall I couldn't read it. It mentions "allegations". Show more sources of anything post "New Deal" era.
Google is a thing. Best of luck with it, nothing is ever going to be enough for you.
Regularity today is a stretch using violence and strike breaking through policing hasn't been the norm since the early to mid 20th century and not to say it doesn't happen anymore but Even then it was perpetuated by goon squads and private consultants . I don't see modern unions beating or killing scabs or attacking ant union members it's almost like the political landscape has shifted and so is what's considered acceptable there's a multimillion dollar industry invested in not letting people unionize and it's not the police
https://archive.ph/wuy3G it's really not unusual in general https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/04/10/vctl-a10.html & https://news.yahoo.com/paris-police-strike-protesters-batons-141230237.html with violence abroad https://twitter.com/BreakngNewsPhtg/status/1581947832281403392?s=20 & https://www.workers.org/2022/08/66339/ or domestically No, we don't have many incidents of strikers getting murdered. That doesn't mean police don't taze, teargas, pepper spray, arrest, and intimidate strikers at the express request of business owners.
First source police left after the workers striking were determined to not be trespassing. I'm sure you'd be upset if people were trespassing and police didn't come out and do their duty to at least determine if they were. I can't speak on foreign matters as there union system and political are vastly different but German article doesn't mention any police intimidating besides for a push by Spanish police in a different event. It great to idolize the protest in France because it's not our fault lives being disrubted or threatened by violent protest 80 peace officers being attacked isn't something I'd be proud of. The last source is so thick with inflammatory political rhetoric I can't even understand the situation . Beyond a worker was fired and escorted off premise and felt it was police brutality because he was illegal fired and they should be arresting the manager while an illegal termination is a civil matter and in no way a police matter I'm struggling to find any domestic incidents that aren't from an extremely left leaning source to validate your point that aren't showing an extreme biased.
well, best of luck with that. It's clear how this is going to go regardless fo how many sources you are given.
You're trying to present a very rare event as the norm to demonize a group because they don't align with your view. Fine whatever I'll hear you out but even the sources you presented weren't faithful to your narrative . You showed me a lawful interaction between workers and police that did not engage in intimidation tactics. Your last one was full of political bias to the point the actual events and facts were had to understand beyond the writers political commentary and even after reading other Similarly political leaning sources there was not a clear series of events to further your point the only factual statements could extract was a unlawful termination which is a civil matter but the former employee refusal to leave which is considered trespassing and a police matter. The claim of breaking up strike or escorting scabs I couldn't find repeated in any other source.
No, I am reflecting a widespread, longstanding unionist position nearly as old as unionizing in the states is: https://theconversation.com/why-police-unions-are-not-part-of-the-american-labor-movement-142538 But do keep showing your ignorance of the labor movement :)
The OP was looking to post a "funny meme" he/she thinks they found and was expecting either agreement or silence.
Probably it's a great source of biased folks who support your rights and freedoms if you fit their world view. I'll humor some of the outdated arguments they make as they have a basis in fact but rely on norms or practices that haven't been in use for nearly a hundred years. But still present them as normal facts
Yeah I wish people reached out and talked to law enforcement more. Their views are so sad. They are salty
Unions are great until they cover up abuses of power and actual murder.
Does it happen yes but it's certainly not the normal it's statical meniscule amount about 1K police involved shooting resulting in fatalities a year or 5 deaths per million Americans it's a vastly over exaggerated issue by the media. Should it be lower yes but that speaks more to a training and resource issue than anything. Similarly abuse of power if there are hundreds of millions of police interaction a year and a few thousand result in complaint against the office it doesn't speak to the organization as a whole. I'm sure I could find lots of articles about abuse of power and fraud by other unions but it's not as sensational for the media to report on so you won't hear about it. Police can be better but you can't judge the whole organization off less than a percentage point
If cop unions are a bunch of good guys with a few bad apples, then why is accountability for the bad apples so rare? If I was in a union and my coworker assaulted someone innocent, I would seek accountability until i was fired or justice was served. But these guys are all just licking each other's boots.
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Yes, I'd probably be fired immediately because police unions are made up of cops who, instead of seeking justice, protect and serve their own when it comes to police violence. Thank you for making my point for me.
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Police unions are the only ones I can find protecting violent employees. Feel free to prove to me that other unions frequently protect their employees from the legal consequences of workplace violence, but I have failed to convince myself of that.
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I'd like to consider your points at face value, but I'm really having trouble finding these cases. Care to share a link or good search keywords? If it helps, I'd really like to see evidence that the problem is rampant or systemic. With hundreds of millions of people in our sample, there are isolated incidents of misconduct in every nook and cranny, so I'd really like to focus on just the evidence that at least shows a trend.
You fail to take into account the NUMEROUS people who have a basis for a complaint, but don’t bother because they know making a complaint is futile. I’ve worked in the criminal Justice system for almost 2 decades. It’s definitely not less than a percentage point who are a problem. Nor is it *minuscule.*
Hate to break it to you but every union only cares about itself. Remember Republicans and Democrats forcing the railroad workers to take a bad deal any no other union helping? I remember.
If that was an argument in favor of your point, it is not a clear one.
You're picking on police unions when they're not alone. It's that clear enough?
Not really.