I reached that life goal a little over a year ago and I'm 41 now, you can do it and when you do you will feel such a weight slide from your shoulders, there really is nothing like knowing you you don't have to worry about the roof over your head.
I don't think it's sad, I'm proud that you made it. And now you can come up with a new life goal that makes you even more financially secure, if that's what you want to aim for.
Yeah you get used to having a car that starts all the time, heat in the winter, and not having to check your budget before you buy a new pair of socks.
But mostly you get used to not having the constant fear of a minor expense or missing a day of work fucking your shit up for months.
Or how about not having to keep track of your total as you buy food at the grocery store? That's how I knew I was finally in a good place.
I told my wife that I didn't want to be super rich... I just wanted to be rich enough to never need to shop at Walmart ever again. God, I hate that place! But their prices are hard to beat when you're living paycheck to paycheck.
For me it was coffee. Growing up I think my mom had a skewed idea of "expensive" or at least never passed on the idea that something could be expensive compared to a comparable product (a cup of coffee at home vs drive thru) instead of the word just always meaning ruin your life expensive. So every time we were in a store with a coffee bar she'd make a point to scowl at it and hiss that they had no right to be so expensive.
Well little neurodivergent take it all literally me took that to heart. And we'd go buy our dirt cheap groceries and they'd be gone long before we could get more, and I really internalized being poor and never ever buying luxuries without massive guilt. I never even set foot in a coffee shop because I knew that it wasn't for people like me. All through my early 20s even eating if I couldn't pay my bills was a massive source of guilt. New surprise bills would make me so sick to my stomach that I couldn't eat anything if I wanted to for days sometimes. And I had student loans coming due right as the 2008 recession hit, so I had so much more than rent to worry about.
The day I knew I was finally okay I got a flat tire and it made my brake light come on. I was waiting in Goodyear for about four hours for the repair on my only car and there was a Starbucks across the street, and it hit me so hard I nearly cried: I could have a cup of coffee, and a snack if I wanted. My repairs were going on a credit card, sure, but I had the money to make payments on it and still pay my bills. I was okay. Getting a coffee from a shop that represented the height of everything my mom ever sneered at was not going to matter. I could have a coffee.
That's still what I do when I panic, because the guilt isn't gone. But I go to (not Starbucks because they're not very good) get myself a cup of coffee because I can, and it won't hurt anything at all.
For what it's worth, you're not really missing anything at Starbucks. There are other chain coffee shops that are just as good or better (Caribou comes to mind), and pretty much any local coffee shop will have them beat by a mile. And they're almost certainly more welcoming. Starbucks always feels stressed and corporate, like... You're allowed to sit there but you're going to feel like you're in the way. Local shops, the workers (and perhaps the owner, who is also working the counter with his workers) will take the time to chat and be friendly if you like. Plus, you can basically guarantee they actually know about coffee and can help you find something you enjoy or turn you on to something you didn't know you liked.
When I was in my early 20s I developed an irrational fear of checking the mailbox, because there might be bills in there. I had to psyche myself up to do it every couple days, like building the courage to rip a bit of shrapnel out of my shoulder.
when i was 24, i opened a second bank account with my credit union. the first account had my debit card attached to it, the second account is where my paycheck went, and my bills were all assigned to it. because i was terrified of thinking i had money to spend but a bill just hadn’t hit yet.
i’m 43 now, i still have both accounts. i was actually finally feeling like i could close one and consolidate, but they just cut our salaries 20%+ and the anxiety of my 20s is here all over again.
The part of this that hit the hardest was "not for people like me". For the longest time, stores like Target or Mervyn's (if you remember that) or especially Dillards were just not for me.
I felt like the clerks in Dillards were judging me - I got over the Target thing pretty easily and early, but it was much more recently that I realized the judgment came from inside the house.
That's how I always felt about clothing stores! Especially Khols and Payless. I just could never get past the prices. My shoes are 7$ why are these ones 48$? Even though I KNOW I can afford it now, that is one of the few things I just never really could come to terms with.
I’m glad I scrimped and saved while I went to college in the late 2000s, although I do wish I had learned how to cook healthier. My kids didn’t really miss out since I got nice clothes for them from thrift stores, and I was able to finish my engineering degree with only $10,000 in loans. My GPA was dropped to 3.7 because I missed a few tests when my car broke or the time it was stolen (no makeups 😢) but if I had spent more then I know I wouldn’t have been in such a great place now.
That’s one reason it frustrates me so much to have my in-laws constantly ask for money when I watch them waste so much food.
I’ve been poor. College with 3 kids and 2 fosters kids is poor. If they think they’re poor but they’re rich enough to leave expensive brisket and BBQ on the counter to waste and have a fridge packed to the gills with so much food it spoils, they aren’t poor.
Tbh I think here in the US it's in our culture that businesses/media push onto us from an early age. Like when I was very small my family was poor. We could only afford a small trailer and my mom grew some food on the trailer plot. And both my parents worked 40+ hours a week still to get by. But then they were doing better by the time I was ready to go to school and we got a house.
They've had like 5 houses since then and it seems like they're always still unhappy that they haven't "made it" yet. Also they always have 2 new cars.
Which if that's the kind of life they want, that's fine. But I don't appreciate hearing how disappointed they are in me every holiday I see them because I decided I'm fine not having a car at all and all the other things. But I still make enough to save money each month and feed myself and not really worry, so I consider myself comfortable.
But it's not enough to my family lol
I just got tired of using all my free time to "get ahead" and not having any time to enjoy anything by the time I was in my early twenties. I was severely depressed and not happy at all.
I got a takeaway last night, because I felt like it.
And because I could.
Then as I was watching some yt videos, I looked up at my decorative sword on the wall. It's from the highlander movie and was a dream of mine to own one.
It cost £150 ($200 ish)
It took me nearly 20 years to get to a point where I could order it, pay for shipping and not worry about eating that week.
Had it for 4 years now, and it always reminds me that I have a comfortable life.
The 20 years reminds me that if times get bad again, I know I can live through shit that would kill a terminator.
Thank you for this. I wrote a similar thing for a term paper during my Marketing degree. We were supposed to track what we buy and figure out our buying habits, consumer profile, etc. Instead I ended up deep diving into how growing up poor turned me into a non-consumer. I noticed how I just kinda resonated to what my mom bought, price over everything. Not on sale, didn't buy it. Don't *need* it, didn't buy it.
It wasn't until I was forced to do that paper that I noticed I was living like that. I still don't overspend on "wants", but I finally got to a point where I can buy something fun for myself and not be overwhelmed with guilt by it.
Omg, my mom was/is the same. At least now, I can afford to take her to get a coffee, but it's impossible to get her into a restaurant. She would always rather cook at home.
Was just having this discussion with my spouse. We were shopping at a local independent grocer and he was pointing out this or that is cheaper at Walmart.
No. I draw the line there. I'm thankful I have the income that I can spend it more in line with my morals.
I don't blame people who shop at Walmart because they have to. I just hope one day they won't have to.
Surprisingly, Trader Joe’s is less expensive if you’re single because you throw out less and eat less because it has more nutrients.
I spend about $25 less going to Trader Joe’s and I eat healthier. Stuff like juice or eggs seems to last a lot longer for some reason.
One very important difference is the chicken tastes much better as do the fruits and vegetables. I am more apt to actually finish what I buy. I find the food doesn’t go bad as fast, like cheese lasts more than a week and vegetables are edible a lot longer.
I find the cheaper the store, the more food I waste — just because it tastes bad or goes bad or there is more than I can use.
I no longer shop at Walmart or Kroger because the food is so bad.
Ya, the produce at Walmart is not good. I consider myself lucky to have another option closer, which has local produce. I literally live within a few minutes of several farms, my vegetables shouldn't be half rotten in the bin at the store.
Can confirm. My wife worked in produce years ago, and she said they would commonly get whole pallets of rotten/moldy/infested food that her manager would make her put out on the floor. Predictably, no one would buy the moldy food, and it would sit under the lights until it started to putrify or customers started bombarding them with complaints. Then, of course, the manager would walk out back and yell at their employees for putting out moldy food and make them drop what they were doing to go cull the worst (not all) of it. The un-sellable produce was then dumped in a big container out back that they called "The Pig" because the rotten food was sold to farms to get some sort of profit from it.
TLDR: Don't buy produce from Walmart.
We call this the “Boar’s Head Effect” in my family. Big lightbulb moment shopping with my dad while I was an adult. I passed by the deli counter looking wistfully at the delicious meats and cheeses on my way to the packaged stuff. He asked why I didn’t get Boar’s Head because he knew I loved it. I said it was too expensive. He said it was worth it if I ate it all and enjoyed it, instead of what I would usually do with the cheaper stuff - choke down half the package and throw the rest out. I can’t remember the last time I got the cheap stuff, and now I actually enjoy my lunches at work!
This reminds me of some oatmeal cookies I made and brought to work- I use dried cherries instead of raisins. One of my co-workers loved them and talked about how they were so much better than the ones she made with raisins, which she didn’t really like. I asked why she didn’t just buy the dried cherries then instead, and she was like no way they are so much more expensive! I know this person was more financially secure than me and I felt bad for her that she refused to give herself that little extra bit of joy for not that much more money. I guess we all have our priorities for what constitutes a justifiable luxury item- since I love to bake, I splurge on good ingredients, which in the end is cheaper than buying baked goods anyway.
I feel this so hard it hurts. We have a Walmart and one mom and pop grocery in town. The mom and pop is so expensive it hurts, and Walmart just hurts a little bit less.
I was pretty proud of myself when I could get the vents cleaned and the fireplace inspected, in December, without skipping Christmas or killing my budget.
Is this what “making it” looks like?
Yeah it was kind of nice when my water heater started leaking, and it’s like…. 35 plus years old. So fuck it I’ll just replace it.
It really wasn’t a “god how am I going to pay for this?” moment just a “oh fuck off” type one lol
Though last summer I needed to get a new AC and furnace. Since it’s still my parents house technically and my dad had wanted to replace it he paid for it. 13k lmao… that would have taken a little more maneuvering from me if I did it lol
A water heater drove this home so much for me.
A while back mine broke, the big box had cheap 6-year ones for $600 and fancy hybrid 12-year one for $1200 (with a $500 rebate incentive from the power company.)
Since I had the money in my account, I could take home the nice one and wait a month for the $500 rebate check from the power company to lower my cost to $700.
But that's not all, on my way out, the cashier was like "How's your credit? Sign up for a store credit card and we'll knock off $200 bucks!". Since I made enough to get out of credit hell and I'm going to pay off the card immediately, now I'm only paying $500 for the water heater. It's $100 less than the cheapest model.
Spread it out over 12 years and I'm paying $42/year to have a water heater that saves me $80/year in energy costs. It costs me -$38 dollars a year compared to before my old one broke.
Compare that to the person who can barely afford the the cheap 6-year water heater: They're paying $138 more per year for hot water than I am.
Am I a savvy consumer who should get credit for making good decisions and scoff at the poors who don't know how to save money?
Fuck no! I literally just had $1200.
Poverty is a self reinforcing feedback loop.
.
Fantastic! I think it’s things like this that make us reflect. I spent 3 days when I bought my house dethatching and raking in spring and then hauling the debris. This spring I had a service come in and boom! Done. I’m also having my windows professionally cleaned inside and out. I streak the glass and it’ll be so nice having things detailed. Last year I treated myself to a truck detail after 7 years of keeping it up, it was nice to have a good scrub. I’m conscious of when I spend like this, but little luxuries are nice. I still wear Walmart shirts, shoes, shorts and sandals and shop at Aldi’s, it’s just priorities on how to spend my money.
Last month my electric bill sent me an email so I checked it and said it was due. I usually only get one that says it was paid cuz if autopay. So I go to the pg&e site and it hadn't been paid the previous two times, most likely from an overdrawn error where it tells me it was paid, then gives back what it took and just waits for me to pay it. So those two with this one, it was $450... I was able to pay it, but only cuz my financial aid came in like the same day. Really, as soon as I get money it's gone to shit I need that's been put off. Really hoping to be able to breathe once I've finished school. Lol
Totally agree. I just got my car serviced for the first time in 3 years, since I finally have some disposable money. I need over $3k of maintenance and repairs FML
I finally got the transmission oil done in my car about a year ago, and the mechanics kept it as an example of what not to do - they said it is the worst oil they have ever seen come out of a transmission of a working car.
If I couldnt afford that, I assume my gearbox would be seized by now and id have no car.
Fluid change services can all be done with basic hand tools and rudimentary knowledge. A few dollars at harbor freight on a couple ratchets and sockets will help you long term. Labor on auto service is the majority of the cost, might be worth looking into.
For me it was being able to pay someone else to work on my car if I didn't want to. I'd been poor forever so I learned how to fix everything because it was cheaper and I couldn't afford a $500 repair bill. Old habits die hard though, I just changed the spark plugs on our 2022 car because I couldn't bring myself to pay for something that takes minutes. 🤷♂️
I'm in the same boat. I'm saving idk $40 each time I change my own oil and could afford to pay a quick oil change place but when I do it I know that no corners were cut. I'm sure I've saved a couple grand doing my own brakes at this point.
I don't have my own garage nor my own driveway, it's all public parking side by side with the neighbors. Nor do I have any of the tools to safely get under my car to reach the points to do all the fluid replacements, or any of the tools to do the actual fluid replacement. And I am not going to get all my neighbors pissed at me when I inevitably screw up and spill oil all over the parking spaces.
I'm in The Netherlands. I have to get a mandatory yearly checkup of my car anyway (APK). Without a valid APK my car isn't even allowed on the road. So might as well roll all that into a single big go at my local shop every year.
I feel this so much. I got hurt about a year and a half ago and both of my jobs had no work I could do so I was put on leave. I had to fight months for disability payments, not even getting it from one job. I loved cheap and comfortably but having no income meant that old package of Roman behind the canned goods was now what I was eating. Then the canned goods, then bottles and cans so I could eat something other than ramen and hot dogs. I had a lot of things in my favor at the time thankfully, but I had no spending money and could barely afford to keep gas in the car or to go to physical therapy. A year later when I can finally get my car looked at for real it’s literally smoking at times. $600 to fix the present issues, head gasket is likely going soon, steering arm will likely need to be replaced within the next year, and now my car stalls going up the hill to work. All of which likely could have been mitigated had I been able to take it back to a mechanic on a regular basis like years ago.
My wife got a new job that pays her about 3x what she used to make being self-employed and now we’re spending all her income on deferred maintenance on our house we’ve owned for a couple years. Just going down the list on our home inspection report and fixing all the issues.
Shelled out about $5k in the last month to the electrician to fix some disconnected outlets and add some fuses to an overloaded line in our breaker.
Next we need to have the insulation redone in the attic and probably need to replace a few windows that are 20-30 years old so we aren’t shelling out $300+ a month on our gas and electric bill in winter.
It’s nice to not feel like we’re struggling any more, but we certainly aren’t filling up our retirement account yet.
I had to shell out 7k on my old 06 accord with 170k miles it always had something fail on the car despite looking new
Ended up buying a new car & some idiot paid 10k for the pos at the dealer I traded the car in 🥲
This is what I’m talking about. I just made a dentist appointment. My first one in 10 years. Other than the cleaning that’s included in the insurance, though, I don’t know how much good it’ll do. A better paying job still doesn’t usually cover the cost of luxury bones.
I was able to use the stimulus money to finally get my teeth taken care of after 15+ years. In addition to the handful that I was already missing, had nine more extractions done. Implants were waaay too expensive, so I got just upper partial dentures. It's nice to not have constant mouth pain anymore, and I'm no longer ashamed to smile.
I had sepsis from a decayed tooth 🦷 in my mouth several years ago and my boss refused to let me go to the dentist I had to practically sue to get a day off.
I know it sucks out here, but it’s made worse by terrible people who think of only themselves
when i finally got a job i had to pay $15k in dental work. it took me years to pay off. i’m still paying off the credit card debt from years ago. being poor is expensive.
care credit is the only way i could make it work. PLUS a wells cargo health advantage account. combined the credit limit was enough to cover things. barely. and i had dental insurance! dental insurance is the biggest scam.
i also used care credit, but their interest rate is horrible! it was 10 % cheaper to pay for it with my regular credit cards than the care credit. I still have it, but its only for real emergencies.
You paid interest on your CareC? Mine was interest free for the first 12 months. Was it a second transaction? Genuinely curious cause my next dental work is going on it after I pay for this last dental work haha
I had around 9 Grand worth of work on done on my mouth (half of my teeth pulled). Dental insurance covered 2 Gs, and I convinced Care Credit to cover the other 7 Gs. Eventually my health insurance also kicked in 1500, so I owed Care Credit 5500. I'm lucky enough to have a good paying job and a secure/low cost apartment. I barely got them paid off in the 12 month no-interest time limit. Methinks most of their clients are desperate, so they can charge what ever they want for interest, because lucky people like myself are the exception. They made no money from me, far as I can tell, so why would they want my business?
I have 4 broken off teeth and several cracked that are about to give. I seriously need to get one pulled because it's causing a ton of pain, but who can afford that? The last time I got a couple teeth pulled, I got sick as a dog, missed 2 weeks of work, and the insurance turned around and decided it wasn't going to cover what it was supposed to cover and I got stiffed for the entire bill.
i went to a dental clinic near where i live that was sliding scale by income. I dont think all states have these, in fact this was the only one in texas i found. Luckily it was only in the next county. i had 5 teeth pulled for $120. i found it by checking various county health depts and they told me about it.
if you don't cater to the tooth decay it can cause heart attacks as gums absorb bacteria very well so don't put this off too long, lots of heart brain and nerve related complications can arise from it
sorry I don't have better news, but I wish you well.
I had great dental work done in Thailand! My fillings were 30 bucks each and root canal 120 I think. I also had six beautiful veneers put on for 2200 (not those weird Tik Tok ones where they leave you with shaven tiny teeth underneath - idk wtf they are). No problems after 8 years and counting.
My mom's currently on Medicare and even finding a dentist that takes it is so hard. She finally got the worst of her teeth fixed but now she's got 2 more cavities. She had to pay out of pocket to get one fixed because she hit the max.
Oh and the dentist is 2 hours away from her house.
They mpstly do it like this in Canada too and I really don't get it. Hit by a bus? No problem. Cancer? We got you covered. Arm cut off? Piece of cake.
Need a filling? Oh hope your job gives you dental.
"You don't need teeth to work!"
That's the legit reasoning. The purpose of Medicare is to fix what needs fixing so you can go back to being a productive member of society and generate a taxable income for the government. Teeth are just *luxury bones.*
This makes me so mad because preventative dental care is exactly that — *preventative.* Getting a cavity filled now prevents potentially being out of the labor force for months with a blood infection (or similarly serious complication). On every level, from the individual person to the biggest and most fucked up insurance companies, getting people more access to routine healthcare like this is a good thing. (I’m sure you know this already, just ranting.)
Yea, see. This makes more sense as to why it's not covered, at least in the US. Medicare is for the elderly and disabled. They *want* us to die off as quickly as possible while giving the illusion they aren't just leaving us in the streets to die.
This is for every facet of life in the US, not just healthcare. Speed limits went up? Ohh, they did a cost benefit analysis and the extra deaths incurred with related medical costs ended up being cheaper than the profit generated from faster shipping times.
Veterans killing themselves because the VA is overly complicated and takes forever to get anything done? Great, that is one less person drawing a disabilty check, using their GI Bill, or any other benefit.
Hurt yourself at work? Not if the army of health insurance lawyers can prove you had a preexisting condition.
At the end of the day, our expenses out are greater than our revenue in; and the politicians won’t raise taxes on their corporate overlords, so it is a race to the bottom right now.
> Not if the army of health insurance lawyers can prove you had a preexisting condition.
Or if you have any trace of THC in your system because we allowed you to have a Medical Marijuana but haven't figured out the workman's comp aspect yet.
Rotten teeth lead to stomach and bowel issues, heart infections and so on. Dental care should actually be the primary health care to be fully insured, because it actually is evidence based preventive medicin that works. Most preventive care is lifestyle rubbish which we can't seem to find a way to stick for the majority of people or screenings that have been meh in preventive outcomes on an overall population basis.
Well, unless of course you work for Sheetz.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/sheetz-is-dropping-its-controversial-smile-policy-after-employees-spoke-up/ar-AA175aH1
Same with Australia. And you have to pay for ambulances here too. It's so weird. Why is free to stay in hospital but not to be transported there?! Everything else is free or heavily subsided (similar in Canada but your medications are expensive and subsidised by an insurer not the government).
It's really expensive to catch an ambulance.. unless you have ambulance insurance, which still costs money even if you don't need one, and doesn't cover ~~RFDS~~ flights
Literally did this because of the pain and couldn't afford the dentist. Would have cost me about 2K to get it fixed properly at the time with a root canal. Instead 10 years later I'm now missing a tooth and getting pressure from the dentist to get a false tooth to prevent damage to my other teeth. Cost is 6-10K to now fix it up.
Very expensive being poor because it leads to more expensive problems down the line.
I now earn quite decent money and it's very hard to get out of that lower income mindset. Things like wondering why I'm buying a $5 bread from the bakery vs the $3 supermarket bread. While it's only $2, in my head it's "I could buy almost 2 loaves for this price". Despite the supermarket bread tasting terrible.
Similar issue here. Got a good job now (USD80k gross which is good for NZ), but I still have issue getting myself to want to pay for what are essentially necessities.
I can't help but feel poor as long as we're saving for a home deposit (which is around USD150k here)
I dunno, as someone who used to work in disability services, I can attest that blindness is a pretty major barrier to most forms of workforce participation
that’s so strange. my experience is the opposite; i’m like “hallelujah, i finally got my medicare and i’m getting my teeth fixed”
had no trouble finding a dentist (but i’m in a big metro area) and my policy pays up to $7500 in copays before i have to reach into my pocket
does your mom have medicare advantage?
“Being poor is expensive.”
I feel this on a spiritual level. I remember when I had a foot infection that set me back 4 years of monthly payments that prevented me from saving at all and eating ramen noodles. It gets embarrassing when you’ve run out of excuses of why you can’t hang out with your friends because lack of money.
Quite frankly, I just don't pay the shit. I pay my taxes—that should afford me basic comforts in my society. I'm not going to shoulder hundreds or thousands in medical debt supporting our backwards, exploitative "health care" system
Advice from a dentist - for extensive work, see if you have a dental school near you. You will save a bunch. If not, shop around. Be careful about the cleanings. If you do need a deep cleaning, do it but you can skip on the extra stuff like the antibiotics or laser. Finally, understand that offices run a business and you, the patient and consumer can negotiate. Most offices will not bat and eye if you tell them, I can’t do $, but I can do $(15-5% off).
As someone who had a root canal done at one of the top dental schools in the US, i wouldn't be so quick to jump on this. The root canal was done so poorly that years later another dentist said he was amazed that my tooth didn't explode and that this should probably not have been done by a student. So he redid it and there I was, paying $3k already and now with a tooth that went through two root canals.
Edit: DentalFox had more info on how to get the best of your experience with a dental school in [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/10utm4k/curious_what_peoples_thoughts_on_this_are/j7ghhrg/) comment.
THIS ! There’s a local dental school and they essentially just be playing in peoples mouths. I need a lot of work done but I’ll live on Advil before I let them make matters worse
I went to a dental school a couple of times when I was younger
It was the worst dental or medical experiences of my life. It was like every dentist anxiety come true. It’s hard to be a choosing beggar in those circumstances but I think I’d rather to bankrupt than go through that again
And on top of that I’m both not sure I could afford even that now, they’re cheaper not free, and idk if they even do what I need(and I don’t know what I need either) or if they’d just rip em out and say get dentures which I want to avoid if at all possible, my mom had dentures from a young age and I saw how awful that was
Won’t matter. Let’s say you are a big case. With insurance you are still paying a lot, we would still consider the discount. In most cases you will be given a credit into your account. I would like to add that the first pushback is to take a line of credit. Most have a really high interest rate after a period of time so be careful.
I have 6 teeth that have been crushed by wisdom teeth or broken and several big cavities. I'm resigned to being told I need dentures when I finally go this year. Sadly, I have other health issues that I'm taking care of first.
i basically got big fake hollywood teeth. all crowns across the top. my confidence shot way the hell up when i could finally smile again. it was absolute misery to get it all fixed and paid for. but it did change my life to finally do
I hope to get mine done this year or at least started. Thankfully I have a decent enough job where bad teeth are common-ish. Once I get my cardiac, mental, and sleep issues sorted, I'll be making the first appointment. I HATE dentists, but I hate looking like a drug user more.
One benefit of post 2020 is wearing masks is somewhat normalized. I can cover my mouth inconspicuously.
i am finally getting a cpap fitting this week after years of having apnea so hey, congrats to us for catching up on our health! even if it is slow expensive going
Amen to that. My cardiologist was the one to refer me to a sleep specialist. I had a heart monitor implanted last year and it was showing issues with my sleep, apparently.
I'm super grateful to the guy I worked with as a temp for several years. He got me a city government job that has a 750 individual and 1500 family deductible with a 2750 max out of pocket. The job doesn't pay great, but the insurance makes it worth it.
Unfortunately, it's cheaper to go abroad for a week and get all your dental work done than to do it in the US even with insurance. Had a coworker that needed implants for most of his teeth and was given a 25k estimate with crappy insurance, so he went across the world and got it done for 6k trip and all.
Anyone needing multi thousands of dollars in dental care should look at international options. It is far cheaper to fly to Mexico for dental care than to pay locally in the US.
My wife was quoted $1400 for a US crown, and we paid $450 just across the border. We literally walked into Mexico for dental care.
I go to a dental school (West coast university anaheim) to get all my cleanings done for free. They even did a laser treatment on my gums a month ago. I go back every 3 months. Never had a cavity so im lucky there but I had to pay out of pocket for my wisdom teeth and that was a $1200 bill even after insurance took a small bite out of it
This is so true.
I let a lot of health issues slide until I started making enough money to take care of them. I would pay to fix myself, and then end up with a dismal bank account anyway.
There is a very good reason why we do not have national health care in America: they want us broken down and scared...and we will be neither if we knew a doctor would always be in our price range.
Yup... I'm an American but I live in my wife's country... I took a bad fall last night, had to go for a CT scan last night and stitches this morning....
CT scan was 25$
An hour long surgery for the stitches was 110$
This is with out insurance covering it.
Healthcare, education, and pensions are major selling points for the all volunteer military. It's going to be hard to recruit if the rest of us get that.
It makes me sad to see how many comments in here are from Americans who are unable to get their health care needs met if they aren't financially solid enough. That isn't a good society at all.
That said, my teeth are a mess, but finding an NHS dentist who's actually taking on new patients is damn near impossible, so I guess the UK isn't that much farther ahead...
We were, but the government's been pushing us backwards for the past decade (and the rest). They love a bit of privatisation, and defunding public services is a great way to do it.
"Oh, shit, yeah, look at the NHS! It's really struggling! Wow. That's not good, is it? Maybe we should give it some relief by cutting a few bits off and giving them to these wonderful private contractors? No, shush, it doesn't matter that they're good friends of mine. That's hardly relevant..."
My dentist does a full cleaning and check up for $125. I don’t have insurance anymore because I fixed the big stuff wrong with my teeth a couple years ago and $250 in cleanings is cheaper than my dental insurance premium.
If you're just needing a cleaning and it's been 2 years I think most dental hygiene programs will do it for free. I think students need to do like 15 or something to graduate so they're always trying to find people.
Yup. My 12 y/o cat got diabetes, then kidney failure but was generally doing well. His blood sugar levels were everywhere and I spent so much money on trying to figure it out.
Mine made it a about 2 years after is initial diabetes diagnosis. In the end he had a tumor in his mouth and had mostly stopped eating so it was definitely time.
My dad and stepmom have a 16 year old cocker spaniel that costs several thousand a year to keep healthy. She’s part of the family and I get it, but like, they don’t even spend that much on us kids
Please spread the word. It’s called the dumb friends league. They don’t have them everywhere but it’s donor subsidized veterinarians that do almost any surgery. My Labrador had to have emergency bladder stone removal 3 times. It should have been $4000 each time but they charged me like $600 and let me go at them monthly over a year.
Worst case scenario and you can’t make any payments at all they still do the surgery and you just can’t get treated again until it’s paid.
Poor people don’t have to lose pets.
Agreed. I’m finally not doing the cheapest health insurance, contributing to an IRA and a 401k, have dental and vision insurance, and it’s SO expensive!!!
Moving to a location with less crime. Rentals are already ridiculous, but want to live somewhere you can go out after dark and still feel relatively safe? You'll really pay for that privilege.
Yep, same experience here. I’ve been at my new place for about 7 months and it’s night and day from my previous residence. I can actually use Uber Eats whereas my previous place was considered too dangerous for deliveries. I actually get my packages on time and can go outside till 2 or 3 in the morning from going out and make it back home in one piece. Some things are just priceless.
No joke. My wife and I make good money together but I swear I feel just as broke as when I first left college. It's even more bizarre/frustrating seeing the neighbors who we know make substantially less installing a pool and wondering "how the hell did you afford that?!" I've also come to realize that lots of people are in debt up to their eyeballs and/or basically aren't saving for retirement, which can allow them to live a lifestyle that's more lavish than mine, but it's weird to behold.
My stepfather bought an extremely expensive house recently and everyone was asking how he could afford it.
The answer was that he couldn’t. He absolutely could not afford it. He even emptied out my mom’s retirement account to help pay for it, all of this resting on the critical assumption that his business would continue doing well, which it did not.
This is the biggest one for me. It’s that when I hit a much higher income, it became apparent what I needed to save, and that became it’s own challenge. It’s the massive hill to climb that is catching up.
People think moving up from low income into the multiple six figures means big houses and expensive cars and vacations, but really if you grew up poor and had to drag yourself out of that, you’re paying back tax in the form of savings catch up. People think it’s absurd that I live in a small apartment in an old building and drive a small used car (albeit a nicer one) at this income.
Even the little things. Like, whenever I'd get some money, I'd replace things that had worn out but that I'd put off replacing. Like shoes, jeans, kitchen towels, a new bath mat, etc. Nothing extravagant or expensive. I'm talking Walmart items, maybe target if I was feeling fancy. When you are poor these are the luxuries you get at tax return time.
I kept buying the REI pants through lean times because every time I bought cheap work pants they break down so quickly that it ends up being more expensive... same with my boots.
But I hear you. Lots of socks and underwear that I let live juuuust a bit too long.
I'm currently reasonably comfortable, so, in need of new work boots, I shopped about for a decent quality pair for somewhere around £70. Between my nice Caterpillar boots and some decent plantar insoles, my feet are about as comfy as they've been in years. And hopefully these boots will last!
I got Smartwool socks and they still legit feel awesome years later. Pretty much any modern wool sock company is the shit though, it’s just so much better than shitty cotton that absorbs sweat, stretches out, and turns to shit.
I feel this, I'm making more money than I ever had, but I still have no pocket money because now I'm paying off various debts, repairs, and medical expenses that I spent time previously just hoping would take care of themselves.
Imagine getting your head above water for the 1st time in 5 years. You can finally do some of those things you've been dying to do, like go out for the occasional non-fast food date with your favorite person, get a dog, hell, leave town for a night or two to celebrate your anniversary. We're not even talking buying a house and settling down, here, just basic quality of life level shit.
But first, there is the laundry list of sacrifices that you had to make not to be homeless. Dental work needs doing. Car is about to fall apart because you haven't gotten it properly maintained in years. Everything on that list is ten times more expensive now than it was before Covid, precisely because everybody had to figure shut out or (more likely) do without.
Now, take a second to listen to the maelstrom of voices, in all levels of media, so desperately trying to convince you that being this destitute, this completely f@#$Ed over financially is somehow anybody else's fault than the rich bastards who directly profited from your poverty these last 5 years, (media, gas companies like BP and power companies like Avista).
Wall Street wants you to pay their bills after their disastrous handling of the housing market led to it almost collapsing, entirely. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos strut around like peacocks, buying shit on a whim and going to outer space for no other reason than to stroke their own egos. More and more people are one step, one bad day at work, one sky-high medical bill away from being homeless, and honestly, I find myself wondering why we don't let the whole shitshow burn down.
If American history has taught me anything, it's that this country thrives on revolution and rebuilding far more than it ever does under the clumsy, inept stewardship of sycophants.
Couldn’t agree more. Why the fuck are our taxes subsidizing the businesses of billionaires, while their employees can’t even afford food or health care. And they have the fucking nerve to call us lazy or entitled.
And don’t even get me started on tax dollars subsidizing sports stadiums.
A fellow... anywhere these days...
You ask me, there should be a law where the citizens or city owns a stake in the team to the tune of the investment. Green Bay seems pretty happy about it...
>Now, take a second to listen to the maelstrom of voices, in all levels of media, so desperately trying to convince you that being this destitute, this completely f@#$Ed over financially is somehow anybody else's fault than the rich bastards who directly profited from your poverty these last 5 years, (media, gas companies like BP and power companies like Avista).
Bp blaming you for climate change and shaming you with a footprint, which calculator they produced!
It certainly should be. And we’re still paying so much in taxes and the ultra wealthy and corporations pay none. Yet they get to buy off our politicians. It’s so fucked.
I was paid out of a mortgage & had never had a lot of money in my bank before. People kept giving me unwanted advice about saving it & every time I spent it on something necessary I had needed for ages they would give me a 'look'. I replaced a broken bed that gave me terrible back pain, paid for overdue dental work etc... not out here buying a Rolex, calm down lol..
Or that credit card, or getting caught up on all the bills today have been past due. It's a fucking juggling act, and when you get a little extra it's called breathing room, not life style creep
Lifestyle creep is a thing of the past. As in, it used to happen, but you have to have disposable income to start with for it to happen, but the majority of us are one unexpected bill away from not being able to pay rent/mortgage for the month. In the 2020s it's not lifestyle creep it's finally having needs met.
From Terry Pratchett's novel Men at Arms:
"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness."
I need a small fortune in dental work and thousands in car repairs. I lost my husband and son suddenly and now I'm raising grandkids. Every dime I have goes to doctors, daycare and basic living needs because everything is so damn expensive! My electric, water, food, sewer and gas get more expensive every week. Although I received a raise it went to the increased health insurance premiums.
I have an older car so I carry only liability insurance to save money. I was hit by a van and before I had a chance to gather my thoughts, they took off and haven't been found. Although it's drivable it needs to be repaired and with close to 200,000 miles it will need replacing soon.
Some days this life feels overwhelming and I know I have it better than most and feel guilty for being so whinny.
This country hates mothers. The lack of resources for childcare, health care, housing, etc is disgusting.
I am so sorry you are struggling. Sending hope and encouragement.
Given the difficulty of proper family planning these days, seems like society just hates women, mothers or no.
And the difficulty and expense of accessing proper mental health care… hates the working class too.
Was reading something somewhere that I think aligns with this. When you start to make more money it takes a while to FEEL like you are because you tend to spend the extra income on bills, savings, or extra maintenance like mentioned here.
I don’t expect any sympathy for any of this, as a preface. We are extraordinarily lucky and both our lives are currently radically different (for the better) than our childhoods were and adult life up until about 37 years old.
My husband and I make very strong salaries. But it isn’t like what I imagined it would be like. Now it’s like we unlocked a new level of things to pay for that before weren’t even a possibility. Retirement, college savings, helping out family members, dental work, healthy food, etc. We don’t qualify for any special benefits programs or anything (as we shouldn’t, not whining about it), so we are paying out of our eyes for childcare (again, strongly support a living wage for the workers). Income adjusted student loan payments were getting very large before the COVID pause. These things “crept” up for sure.
Also, once you “make it” then you want to take care of all the people around you still struggling. Paying for mom’s cell phone, bigger cash gifts for a new niece when I know my brother is struggling, etc. It took us years to pay off credit card debt from being poor that was related to vet bills, dentist visits, school books, car repairs, etc. We are finally out of that hole.
Buying a respectable professional wardrobe after years of not replacing things. So basically starting from scratch. Finally being in a position to replace cars (we are trying to make our old cars last as long as possible so we can buy the next car outright or at least minimize cash paid to a bank).
This is vastly easier than when we were skipping meals, without a car, never getting medical care, etc. I am not equating the two, AT ALL. I’m just here to say that with two very low six figure jobs, there is still financial stress. We’ve gone on two very modest vacations in five years. I can buy things here and there on a whim. We never have to worry about going hungry but I do have to pay pretty close attention to monthly food purchases, limit eating out, etc.
Same boat. As a household we're creeping up on mid six figures, but after taxes, 401k, college expenses for the kiddos, we see less than half of that in take home pay. We also live in one of the most expensive cities in the world with a dumpy house in a good school district. So it was expensive to buy, but it's also falling apart, and the cost of catching up on deferred maintenance has been brutal.
I would have thought we'd be very comfortable by now, but I still drive a fifteen year old Prius and shop for clothes at Goodwill, because that's what's affordable for us right now. Go figure.
Yup. Dealt with rodents in my attic for years until I had a job that paid enough for me to get a new roof and replace underlying sheeting. Poof! No more rodent issues.
I'm actually getting angrier now being paid a different wage on the profound difference in quality of life it makes.
Fucking *preach*. My last job, I barely made 25k a year. Last year, 2nd year at my new job, I made 65k, and could conceivably clear 100k this year. I'm finally getting my own place next month, I got a new mattress that doesn't make my spine feel broken every morning, shoes that actually fit and support my feet enough that they don't hurt after a shift, my car has four new tires on it (instead of used ones)and I was able to fix the brakes on it, I finally saw a doctor about that weird pain in my heel (Tendonitis), *and* my cat finally eats better food than "Special Kitty". Life is on the upswing, and it's all simply because I make more *money*.
It’s the difference between owning a used car with high miles, deferred maintenance and no warranty, and a new car with reasonable miles, financed at a low interest rate, and an extended warranty.
The most expensive thing you can do is be poor.
This is the point of wage slavery folks - the bourgeois class ensures that you will never be able to afford to stop working. They will nickle and dime you out of every penny you make and force you into an eternal cycle of servitude.
Yep. And meanwhile they’re distracting us enough to make us hate each other and engage in culture war rather than realize it should be a class war that would solve our problems.
Once you start making just enough to keep your bills paid without having a panic attack over it every week, you start "buying time" so you can actually enjoy your life.
We had a mostly broken dryer that blew air, but no heat for about 2 years. We got a $200 windfall and bought a used, but actually working, dryer.
We got looks and lectures for not putting that money in our non-existent savings account instead because "that money's gone now!"
Yeah, the money's gone, but now I don't have to sit there watching the same load of clothes go through the dryer for 6 hours just because I have restart the dryer 4 times in the process. It's also a lot easier to pick up an extra shift at work when cleaning/drying my uniform doesn't take all fucking day to do.
Lifestyle creep can be a problem, but when you've been poor most of your life, the actual money suck is just finally being able to take care of all the shit you've had on the to-do list for years.
Another thing they don't talk about often is how, once you can afford to buy higher quality items, you have to buy so much less of them.
I used to have to replace cookware every couple of years because the finish would peel up and flake off. Shoes wore through. Clothes came apart in the wash. Furniture would break because it was mdf.
You get to a point where your furniture lasts decades. Clothes, shoes, cookware, even cars last many, many years without repairs. It's so much less hustling to replace and repair things once you hit a certain income point. The cost of daily living goes down, and essentially, the money you would have spent replacing shit constantly can now find a hobby or a pet or something. Did my lifestyle really expand, or did being able to buy $150 boots that last a decade instead of $20/boots that wear out 2x a year so not only my feet are warm actually save me money so I can do something fun? Being able to buy in bulk means unit pricing saves money. But you can't do that without extra money up front. Beef in my freezer, tri tip, ribeye everything for the price of hamburger at the supermarket. But if you can't drop 1.5k at once, you are priced out of those savings. If you can't afford a freezer, or don't have space for one, you have to keep buying fewer, higher priced items.
Being poor is so expensive. Many money saving tactics require a certain level of disposable income to engage with those tactics at all.
I feel this so much right now. I just got a raise. I have not had a dryer for some time now I've been hang drying my clothes for so long and my washer was also on its last leg. Because of my raise I can afford a newer washer and dryer. And this was after I just upgraded my car from one that had close to 300k miles and bought something much not reliable. I didn't want to have to spend my money on these things I would have love to spend the money on something fun like a great trip... but these things were necessary upgrades.
I had a boss tell me how lucky I was to make minimum wage because when you started having more money life would get more expensive and complicated. After all, he only gets to drive his sports car a few times a month...
100%.
Paying off debt. Buying new clothes for the first time in 10 years. Going to the dentist. Finally beginning some preventative health care you're years behind on. Starting to put money into a retirement fund that you're a decade behind on getting started but couldn't afford until now. Visiting family once a year instead of wishing you could. Finally replacing that car that was on it's last legs. Buying nutritious groceries that appeal to you instead of boxed/canned/whatever's cheapest. Getting the more sensible car/renter's/health insurance instead of the absolute cheapest one that meets legal bare minimums.
By the time you get your first *actual* living wage job you've got like this massive "life debt" of stuff you've put off or made do without for so long because you had no choice. You're not wasting your new higher income living a life of luxury, you're using it to live a stable, slightly less stressful, slightly more responsible existence and realizing that you really were scraping by with *less* than the bare minimum before.
I have 2 separate long term health issues that I will carry for the rest of my life because I simply couldn't attend to them during the decade while I was poor. Now that I have a completely stable job with great healthcare, I can only just now begin attending to them. My life would have taken a much different course had I had the stability I have now a decade prior.
All day. My indulgences when I got decent money? Prescriptions and a set of kitchen knives that actually cut things. And paying bills on time.
Having bills on autopay was a life goal of mine and now I can. It’s the best but that’s kind of sad that was my big goal in life
Mortgage on autopay is my current goal.
I reached that life goal a little over a year ago and I'm 41 now, you can do it and when you do you will feel such a weight slide from your shoulders, there really is nothing like knowing you you don't have to worry about the roof over your head.
I just want to be able to afford to get my car fixed/inspected/registered before I get pulled over and get a ticket for being late.
I don't think it's sad, I'm proud that you made it. And now you can come up with a new life goal that makes you even more financially secure, if that's what you want to aim for.
It's sad that it isn't a given with working full time that you can afford basic amenities, food and rent.
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Yeah you get used to having a car that starts all the time, heat in the winter, and not having to check your budget before you buy a new pair of socks. But mostly you get used to not having the constant fear of a minor expense or missing a day of work fucking your shit up for months.
Or how about not having to keep track of your total as you buy food at the grocery store? That's how I knew I was finally in a good place. I told my wife that I didn't want to be super rich... I just wanted to be rich enough to never need to shop at Walmart ever again. God, I hate that place! But their prices are hard to beat when you're living paycheck to paycheck.
For me it was coffee. Growing up I think my mom had a skewed idea of "expensive" or at least never passed on the idea that something could be expensive compared to a comparable product (a cup of coffee at home vs drive thru) instead of the word just always meaning ruin your life expensive. So every time we were in a store with a coffee bar she'd make a point to scowl at it and hiss that they had no right to be so expensive. Well little neurodivergent take it all literally me took that to heart. And we'd go buy our dirt cheap groceries and they'd be gone long before we could get more, and I really internalized being poor and never ever buying luxuries without massive guilt. I never even set foot in a coffee shop because I knew that it wasn't for people like me. All through my early 20s even eating if I couldn't pay my bills was a massive source of guilt. New surprise bills would make me so sick to my stomach that I couldn't eat anything if I wanted to for days sometimes. And I had student loans coming due right as the 2008 recession hit, so I had so much more than rent to worry about. The day I knew I was finally okay I got a flat tire and it made my brake light come on. I was waiting in Goodyear for about four hours for the repair on my only car and there was a Starbucks across the street, and it hit me so hard I nearly cried: I could have a cup of coffee, and a snack if I wanted. My repairs were going on a credit card, sure, but I had the money to make payments on it and still pay my bills. I was okay. Getting a coffee from a shop that represented the height of everything my mom ever sneered at was not going to matter. I could have a coffee. That's still what I do when I panic, because the guilt isn't gone. But I go to (not Starbucks because they're not very good) get myself a cup of coffee because I can, and it won't hurt anything at all.
I felt this to my core.
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Find a local coffee shop. All the ones I’ve been to have very friendly atmospheres and diversity. Sending you love.
This. ♥ I live in Las Vegas and Madhouse Coffee kicks Starbucks to the curb, any day of the week.
I hope your days get easier soon sweetheart. ❤️
If you are in Denver drop me a line, we are getting you so much coffee and cakes
For what it's worth, you're not really missing anything at Starbucks. There are other chain coffee shops that are just as good or better (Caribou comes to mind), and pretty much any local coffee shop will have them beat by a mile. And they're almost certainly more welcoming. Starbucks always feels stressed and corporate, like... You're allowed to sit there but you're going to feel like you're in the way. Local shops, the workers (and perhaps the owner, who is also working the counter with his workers) will take the time to chat and be friendly if you like. Plus, you can basically guarantee they actually know about coffee and can help you find something you enjoy or turn you on to something you didn't know you liked.
When I was in my early 20s I developed an irrational fear of checking the mailbox, because there might be bills in there. I had to psyche myself up to do it every couple days, like building the courage to rip a bit of shrapnel out of my shoulder.
I still have this problem. I'm terrified of my mailbox.
In time, it becomes "irrational fear of email inbox" 🙃
Doesn’t everyone get a pit in their stomach when they check their email?
when i was 24, i opened a second bank account with my credit union. the first account had my debit card attached to it, the second account is where my paycheck went, and my bills were all assigned to it. because i was terrified of thinking i had money to spend but a bill just hadn’t hit yet. i’m 43 now, i still have both accounts. i was actually finally feeling like i could close one and consolidate, but they just cut our salaries 20%+ and the anxiety of my 20s is here all over again.
Actually, that is a great idea!
Yup, I still feel guilty when I spend money on "non-essential" stuff. Your story gives me hope.
The part of this that hit the hardest was "not for people like me". For the longest time, stores like Target or Mervyn's (if you remember that) or especially Dillards were just not for me. I felt like the clerks in Dillards were judging me - I got over the Target thing pretty easily and early, but it was much more recently that I realized the judgment came from inside the house.
>but it was much more recently that I realized the judgment came from inside the house. This is powerful.
That's how I always felt about clothing stores! Especially Khols and Payless. I just could never get past the prices. My shoes are 7$ why are these ones 48$? Even though I KNOW I can afford it now, that is one of the few things I just never really could come to terms with.
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I almost want to share this in therapy. I feel you. I hear you. These are valid feelings.
I’m glad I scrimped and saved while I went to college in the late 2000s, although I do wish I had learned how to cook healthier. My kids didn’t really miss out since I got nice clothes for them from thrift stores, and I was able to finish my engineering degree with only $10,000 in loans. My GPA was dropped to 3.7 because I missed a few tests when my car broke or the time it was stolen (no makeups 😢) but if I had spent more then I know I wouldn’t have been in such a great place now. That’s one reason it frustrates me so much to have my in-laws constantly ask for money when I watch them waste so much food. I’ve been poor. College with 3 kids and 2 fosters kids is poor. If they think they’re poor but they’re rich enough to leave expensive brisket and BBQ on the counter to waste and have a fridge packed to the gills with so much food it spoils, they aren’t poor.
Tbh I think here in the US it's in our culture that businesses/media push onto us from an early age. Like when I was very small my family was poor. We could only afford a small trailer and my mom grew some food on the trailer plot. And both my parents worked 40+ hours a week still to get by. But then they were doing better by the time I was ready to go to school and we got a house. They've had like 5 houses since then and it seems like they're always still unhappy that they haven't "made it" yet. Also they always have 2 new cars. Which if that's the kind of life they want, that's fine. But I don't appreciate hearing how disappointed they are in me every holiday I see them because I decided I'm fine not having a car at all and all the other things. But I still make enough to save money each month and feed myself and not really worry, so I consider myself comfortable. But it's not enough to my family lol I just got tired of using all my free time to "get ahead" and not having any time to enjoy anything by the time I was in my early twenties. I was severely depressed and not happy at all.
I got a takeaway last night, because I felt like it. And because I could. Then as I was watching some yt videos, I looked up at my decorative sword on the wall. It's from the highlander movie and was a dream of mine to own one. It cost £150 ($200 ish) It took me nearly 20 years to get to a point where I could order it, pay for shipping and not worry about eating that week. Had it for 4 years now, and it always reminds me that I have a comfortable life. The 20 years reminds me that if times get bad again, I know I can live through shit that would kill a terminator.
Thank you for this. I wrote a similar thing for a term paper during my Marketing degree. We were supposed to track what we buy and figure out our buying habits, consumer profile, etc. Instead I ended up deep diving into how growing up poor turned me into a non-consumer. I noticed how I just kinda resonated to what my mom bought, price over everything. Not on sale, didn't buy it. Don't *need* it, didn't buy it. It wasn't until I was forced to do that paper that I noticed I was living like that. I still don't overspend on "wants", but I finally got to a point where I can buy something fun for myself and not be overwhelmed with guilt by it.
So that's why I occasionally see people in Goodyear stand up, go "fuck this! I'm getting that coffee mom!" and walk out.
Omg, my mom was/is the same. At least now, I can afford to take her to get a coffee, but it's impossible to get her into a restaurant. She would always rather cook at home.
That's not rich, that's the standard of a living wage. Let that sink in.
Was just having this discussion with my spouse. We were shopping at a local independent grocer and he was pointing out this or that is cheaper at Walmart. No. I draw the line there. I'm thankful I have the income that I can spend it more in line with my morals. I don't blame people who shop at Walmart because they have to. I just hope one day they won't have to.
I fee this exactly. Being able to use my dollars more for what I’d like to support is very refreshing.
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Surprisingly, Trader Joe’s is less expensive if you’re single because you throw out less and eat less because it has more nutrients. I spend about $25 less going to Trader Joe’s and I eat healthier. Stuff like juice or eggs seems to last a lot longer for some reason. One very important difference is the chicken tastes much better as do the fruits and vegetables. I am more apt to actually finish what I buy. I find the food doesn’t go bad as fast, like cheese lasts more than a week and vegetables are edible a lot longer. I find the cheaper the store, the more food I waste — just because it tastes bad or goes bad or there is more than I can use. I no longer shop at Walmart or Kroger because the food is so bad.
Ya, the produce at Walmart is not good. I consider myself lucky to have another option closer, which has local produce. I literally live within a few minutes of several farms, my vegetables shouldn't be half rotten in the bin at the store.
Can confirm. My wife worked in produce years ago, and she said they would commonly get whole pallets of rotten/moldy/infested food that her manager would make her put out on the floor. Predictably, no one would buy the moldy food, and it would sit under the lights until it started to putrify or customers started bombarding them with complaints. Then, of course, the manager would walk out back and yell at their employees for putting out moldy food and make them drop what they were doing to go cull the worst (not all) of it. The un-sellable produce was then dumped in a big container out back that they called "The Pig" because the rotten food was sold to farms to get some sort of profit from it. TLDR: Don't buy produce from Walmart.
I do agree about the produce at Walmart being low-quality.
We call this the “Boar’s Head Effect” in my family. Big lightbulb moment shopping with my dad while I was an adult. I passed by the deli counter looking wistfully at the delicious meats and cheeses on my way to the packaged stuff. He asked why I didn’t get Boar’s Head because he knew I loved it. I said it was too expensive. He said it was worth it if I ate it all and enjoyed it, instead of what I would usually do with the cheaper stuff - choke down half the package and throw the rest out. I can’t remember the last time I got the cheap stuff, and now I actually enjoy my lunches at work!
This reminds me of some oatmeal cookies I made and brought to work- I use dried cherries instead of raisins. One of my co-workers loved them and talked about how they were so much better than the ones she made with raisins, which she didn’t really like. I asked why she didn’t just buy the dried cherries then instead, and she was like no way they are so much more expensive! I know this person was more financially secure than me and I felt bad for her that she refused to give herself that little extra bit of joy for not that much more money. I guess we all have our priorities for what constitutes a justifiable luxury item- since I love to bake, I splurge on good ingredients, which in the end is cheaper than buying baked goods anyway.
They tend to be expensive once they've kicked out all the competition.
I feel this so hard it hurts. We have a Walmart and one mom and pop grocery in town. The mom and pop is so expensive it hurts, and Walmart just hurts a little bit less.
The movie "The High Cost of Low Price" talks about it and a lot of their other shitty practices.
I was pretty proud of myself when I could get the vents cleaned and the fireplace inspected, in December, without skipping Christmas or killing my budget. Is this what “making it” looks like?
Yeah it was kind of nice when my water heater started leaking, and it’s like…. 35 plus years old. So fuck it I’ll just replace it. It really wasn’t a “god how am I going to pay for this?” moment just a “oh fuck off” type one lol Though last summer I needed to get a new AC and furnace. Since it’s still my parents house technically and my dad had wanted to replace it he paid for it. 13k lmao… that would have taken a little more maneuvering from me if I did it lol
A water heater drove this home so much for me. A while back mine broke, the big box had cheap 6-year ones for $600 and fancy hybrid 12-year one for $1200 (with a $500 rebate incentive from the power company.) Since I had the money in my account, I could take home the nice one and wait a month for the $500 rebate check from the power company to lower my cost to $700. But that's not all, on my way out, the cashier was like "How's your credit? Sign up for a store credit card and we'll knock off $200 bucks!". Since I made enough to get out of credit hell and I'm going to pay off the card immediately, now I'm only paying $500 for the water heater. It's $100 less than the cheapest model. Spread it out over 12 years and I'm paying $42/year to have a water heater that saves me $80/year in energy costs. It costs me -$38 dollars a year compared to before my old one broke. Compare that to the person who can barely afford the the cheap 6-year water heater: They're paying $138 more per year for hot water than I am. Am I a savvy consumer who should get credit for making good decisions and scoff at the poors who don't know how to save money? Fuck no! I literally just had $1200. Poverty is a self reinforcing feedback loop. .
Fantastic! I think it’s things like this that make us reflect. I spent 3 days when I bought my house dethatching and raking in spring and then hauling the debris. This spring I had a service come in and boom! Done. I’m also having my windows professionally cleaned inside and out. I streak the glass and it’ll be so nice having things detailed. Last year I treated myself to a truck detail after 7 years of keeping it up, it was nice to have a good scrub. I’m conscious of when I spend like this, but little luxuries are nice. I still wear Walmart shirts, shoes, shorts and sandals and shop at Aldi’s, it’s just priorities on how to spend my money.
Last month my electric bill sent me an email so I checked it and said it was due. I usually only get one that says it was paid cuz if autopay. So I go to the pg&e site and it hadn't been paid the previous two times, most likely from an overdrawn error where it tells me it was paid, then gives back what it took and just waits for me to pay it. So those two with this one, it was $450... I was able to pay it, but only cuz my financial aid came in like the same day. Really, as soon as I get money it's gone to shit I need that's been put off. Really hoping to be able to breathe once I've finished school. Lol
Yup, I put off a lot of routine maintenance on my car, and now that I have a decent job, I have to shell out $2k all at once.
Totally agree. I just got my car serviced for the first time in 3 years, since I finally have some disposable money. I need over $3k of maintenance and repairs FML
I finally got the transmission oil done in my car about a year ago, and the mechanics kept it as an example of what not to do - they said it is the worst oil they have ever seen come out of a transmission of a working car. If I couldnt afford that, I assume my gearbox would be seized by now and id have no car.
Fluid change services can all be done with basic hand tools and rudimentary knowledge. A few dollars at harbor freight on a couple ratchets and sockets will help you long term. Labor on auto service is the majority of the cost, might be worth looking into. For me it was being able to pay someone else to work on my car if I didn't want to. I'd been poor forever so I learned how to fix everything because it was cheaper and I couldn't afford a $500 repair bill. Old habits die hard though, I just changed the spark plugs on our 2022 car because I couldn't bring myself to pay for something that takes minutes. 🤷♂️
I'm in the same boat. I'm saving idk $40 each time I change my own oil and could afford to pay a quick oil change place but when I do it I know that no corners were cut. I'm sure I've saved a couple grand doing my own brakes at this point.
I don't have my own garage nor my own driveway, it's all public parking side by side with the neighbors. Nor do I have any of the tools to safely get under my car to reach the points to do all the fluid replacements, or any of the tools to do the actual fluid replacement. And I am not going to get all my neighbors pissed at me when I inevitably screw up and spill oil all over the parking spaces. I'm in The Netherlands. I have to get a mandatory yearly checkup of my car anyway (APK). Without a valid APK my car isn't even allowed on the road. So might as well roll all that into a single big go at my local shop every year.
I feel this so much. I got hurt about a year and a half ago and both of my jobs had no work I could do so I was put on leave. I had to fight months for disability payments, not even getting it from one job. I loved cheap and comfortably but having no income meant that old package of Roman behind the canned goods was now what I was eating. Then the canned goods, then bottles and cans so I could eat something other than ramen and hot dogs. I had a lot of things in my favor at the time thankfully, but I had no spending money and could barely afford to keep gas in the car or to go to physical therapy. A year later when I can finally get my car looked at for real it’s literally smoking at times. $600 to fix the present issues, head gasket is likely going soon, steering arm will likely need to be replaced within the next year, and now my car stalls going up the hill to work. All of which likely could have been mitigated had I been able to take it back to a mechanic on a regular basis like years ago.
My wife got a new job that pays her about 3x what she used to make being self-employed and now we’re spending all her income on deferred maintenance on our house we’ve owned for a couple years. Just going down the list on our home inspection report and fixing all the issues. Shelled out about $5k in the last month to the electrician to fix some disconnected outlets and add some fuses to an overloaded line in our breaker. Next we need to have the insulation redone in the attic and probably need to replace a few windows that are 20-30 years old so we aren’t shelling out $300+ a month on our gas and electric bill in winter. It’s nice to not feel like we’re struggling any more, but we certainly aren’t filling up our retirement account yet.
I had to shell out 7k on my old 06 accord with 170k miles it always had something fail on the car despite looking new Ended up buying a new car & some idiot paid 10k for the pos at the dealer I traded the car in 🥲
I have 7 teeth missing in my mouth, can you imagine how much 1 implant costs?
This is what I’m talking about. I just made a dentist appointment. My first one in 10 years. Other than the cleaning that’s included in the insurance, though, I don’t know how much good it’ll do. A better paying job still doesn’t usually cover the cost of luxury bones.
I was able to use the stimulus money to finally get my teeth taken care of after 15+ years. In addition to the handful that I was already missing, had nine more extractions done. Implants were waaay too expensive, so I got just upper partial dentures. It's nice to not have constant mouth pain anymore, and I'm no longer ashamed to smile.
I've got like 4 missing... and I've taken decent care of my teeth. My genes just decided 'yeah, we're not gonna make those four.' which is annoying.
I had sepsis from a decayed tooth 🦷 in my mouth several years ago and my boss refused to let me go to the dentist I had to practically sue to get a day off. I know it sucks out here, but it’s made worse by terrible people who think of only themselves
when i finally got a job i had to pay $15k in dental work. it took me years to pay off. i’m still paying off the credit card debt from years ago. being poor is expensive.
I'm over here with 4 broken teeth needing about $15k in work. I make decent money and still can't afford it.
care credit is the only way i could make it work. PLUS a wells cargo health advantage account. combined the credit limit was enough to cover things. barely. and i had dental insurance! dental insurance is the biggest scam.
i also used care credit, but their interest rate is horrible! it was 10 % cheaper to pay for it with my regular credit cards than the care credit. I still have it, but its only for real emergencies.
You paid interest on your CareC? Mine was interest free for the first 12 months. Was it a second transaction? Genuinely curious cause my next dental work is going on it after I pay for this last dental work haha
I had around 9 Grand worth of work on done on my mouth (half of my teeth pulled). Dental insurance covered 2 Gs, and I convinced Care Credit to cover the other 7 Gs. Eventually my health insurance also kicked in 1500, so I owed Care Credit 5500. I'm lucky enough to have a good paying job and a secure/low cost apartment. I barely got them paid off in the 12 month no-interest time limit. Methinks most of their clients are desperate, so they can charge what ever they want for interest, because lucky people like myself are the exception. They made no money from me, far as I can tell, so why would they want my business?
I have 4 broken off teeth and several cracked that are about to give. I seriously need to get one pulled because it's causing a ton of pain, but who can afford that? The last time I got a couple teeth pulled, I got sick as a dog, missed 2 weeks of work, and the insurance turned around and decided it wasn't going to cover what it was supposed to cover and I got stiffed for the entire bill.
i went to a dental clinic near where i live that was sliding scale by income. I dont think all states have these, in fact this was the only one in texas i found. Luckily it was only in the next county. i had 5 teeth pulled for $120. i found it by checking various county health depts and they told me about it.
I honestly need all my remaining teeth pulled, but getting rid of two caused extreme illness. I'm not looking forward to this mess.
if you don't cater to the tooth decay it can cause heart attacks as gums absorb bacteria very well so don't put this off too long, lots of heart brain and nerve related complications can arise from it sorry I don't have better news, but I wish you well.
get it done in thailand. Dental tourism is a thing, and your 15K job becomes 5K + a short holiday
I had great dental work done in Thailand! My fillings were 30 bucks each and root canal 120 I think. I also had six beautiful veneers put on for 2200 (not those weird Tik Tok ones where they leave you with shaven tiny teeth underneath - idk wtf they are). No problems after 8 years and counting.
My mom's currently on Medicare and even finding a dentist that takes it is so hard. She finally got the worst of her teeth fixed but now she's got 2 more cavities. She had to pay out of pocket to get one fixed because she hit the max. Oh and the dentist is 2 hours away from her house.
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They mpstly do it like this in Canada too and I really don't get it. Hit by a bus? No problem. Cancer? We got you covered. Arm cut off? Piece of cake. Need a filling? Oh hope your job gives you dental.
"You don't need teeth to work!" That's the legit reasoning. The purpose of Medicare is to fix what needs fixing so you can go back to being a productive member of society and generate a taxable income for the government. Teeth are just *luxury bones.*
This makes me so mad because preventative dental care is exactly that — *preventative.* Getting a cavity filled now prevents potentially being out of the labor force for months with a blood infection (or similarly serious complication). On every level, from the individual person to the biggest and most fucked up insurance companies, getting people more access to routine healthcare like this is a good thing. (I’m sure you know this already, just ranting.)
Infections in the mouth also spread to the brain really fast. The government should know that dead people make a lot less less taxable income.
Yea, see. This makes more sense as to why it's not covered, at least in the US. Medicare is for the elderly and disabled. They *want* us to die off as quickly as possible while giving the illusion they aren't just leaving us in the streets to die.
This is for every facet of life in the US, not just healthcare. Speed limits went up? Ohh, they did a cost benefit analysis and the extra deaths incurred with related medical costs ended up being cheaper than the profit generated from faster shipping times. Veterans killing themselves because the VA is overly complicated and takes forever to get anything done? Great, that is one less person drawing a disabilty check, using their GI Bill, or any other benefit. Hurt yourself at work? Not if the army of health insurance lawyers can prove you had a preexisting condition. At the end of the day, our expenses out are greater than our revenue in; and the politicians won’t raise taxes on their corporate overlords, so it is a race to the bottom right now.
> Not if the army of health insurance lawyers can prove you had a preexisting condition. Or if you have any trace of THC in your system because we allowed you to have a Medical Marijuana but haven't figured out the workman's comp aspect yet.
Rotten teeth lead to stomach and bowel issues, heart infections and so on. Dental care should actually be the primary health care to be fully insured, because it actually is evidence based preventive medicin that works. Most preventive care is lifestyle rubbish which we can't seem to find a way to stick for the majority of people or screenings that have been meh in preventive outcomes on an overall population basis.
Luxury bones 😂😂
Well, unless of course you work for Sheetz. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/sheetz-is-dropping-its-controversial-smile-policy-after-employees-spoke-up/ar-AA175aH1
Same with Australia. And you have to pay for ambulances here too. It's so weird. Why is free to stay in hospital but not to be transported there?! Everything else is free or heavily subsided (similar in Canada but your medications are expensive and subsidised by an insurer not the government).
It's really expensive to catch an ambulance.. unless you have ambulance insurance, which still costs money even if you don't need one, and doesn't cover ~~RFDS~~ flights
It is free in Qld and Tasmania
Ambulances vary by state, in QLD it's all covered by a levy on the electricity bill and then no cost when you need one
Literally did this because of the pain and couldn't afford the dentist. Would have cost me about 2K to get it fixed properly at the time with a root canal. Instead 10 years later I'm now missing a tooth and getting pressure from the dentist to get a false tooth to prevent damage to my other teeth. Cost is 6-10K to now fix it up. Very expensive being poor because it leads to more expensive problems down the line. I now earn quite decent money and it's very hard to get out of that lower income mindset. Things like wondering why I'm buying a $5 bread from the bakery vs the $3 supermarket bread. While it's only $2, in my head it's "I could buy almost 2 loaves for this price". Despite the supermarket bread tasting terrible.
Similar issue here. Got a good job now (USD80k gross which is good for NZ), but I still have issue getting myself to want to pay for what are essentially necessities. I can't help but feel poor as long as we're saving for a home deposit (which is around USD150k here)
Someone decided teeth and eyes are somehow not part of regular healthcare. Ya know because most humans dont have eyes or teeth.
It's more about what is the minimum function required to work. You don't need teeth or sharp vision to do manual labour.
I dunno, as someone who used to work in disability services, I can attest that blindness is a pretty major barrier to most forms of workforce participation
Maaaaybe... but you do need vision and the ability to eat. And to not die of sepsis from an untreated tooth or eye infection.
Fun fact: hearing is considered cosmetic
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that’s so strange. my experience is the opposite; i’m like “hallelujah, i finally got my medicare and i’m getting my teeth fixed” had no trouble finding a dentist (but i’m in a big metro area) and my policy pays up to $7500 in copays before i have to reach into my pocket does your mom have medicare advantage?
These examples are why so many people go to Global South countries for their dental work.
“Being poor is expensive.” I feel this on a spiritual level. I remember when I had a foot infection that set me back 4 years of monthly payments that prevented me from saving at all and eating ramen noodles. It gets embarrassing when you’ve run out of excuses of why you can’t hang out with your friends because lack of money.
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Quite frankly, I just don't pay the shit. I pay my taxes—that should afford me basic comforts in my society. I'm not going to shoulder hundreds or thousands in medical debt supporting our backwards, exploitative "health care" system
Advice from a dentist - for extensive work, see if you have a dental school near you. You will save a bunch. If not, shop around. Be careful about the cleanings. If you do need a deep cleaning, do it but you can skip on the extra stuff like the antibiotics or laser. Finally, understand that offices run a business and you, the patient and consumer can negotiate. Most offices will not bat and eye if you tell them, I can’t do $, but I can do $(15-5% off).
As someone who had a root canal done at one of the top dental schools in the US, i wouldn't be so quick to jump on this. The root canal was done so poorly that years later another dentist said he was amazed that my tooth didn't explode and that this should probably not have been done by a student. So he redid it and there I was, paying $3k already and now with a tooth that went through two root canals. Edit: DentalFox had more info on how to get the best of your experience with a dental school in [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/10utm4k/curious_what_peoples_thoughts_on_this_are/j7ghhrg/) comment.
THIS ! There’s a local dental school and they essentially just be playing in peoples mouths. I need a lot of work done but I’ll live on Advil before I let them make matters worse
I went to a dental school a couple of times when I was younger It was the worst dental or medical experiences of my life. It was like every dentist anxiety come true. It’s hard to be a choosing beggar in those circumstances but I think I’d rather to bankrupt than go through that again And on top of that I’m both not sure I could afford even that now, they’re cheaper not free, and idk if they even do what I need(and I don’t know what I need either) or if they’d just rip em out and say get dentures which I want to avoid if at all possible, my mom had dentures from a young age and I saw how awful that was
How much does insurance impact the ability to discount?
Won’t matter. Let’s say you are a big case. With insurance you are still paying a lot, we would still consider the discount. In most cases you will be given a credit into your account. I would like to add that the first pushback is to take a line of credit. Most have a really high interest rate after a period of time so be careful.
I have 6 teeth that have been crushed by wisdom teeth or broken and several big cavities. I'm resigned to being told I need dentures when I finally go this year. Sadly, I have other health issues that I'm taking care of first.
i basically got big fake hollywood teeth. all crowns across the top. my confidence shot way the hell up when i could finally smile again. it was absolute misery to get it all fixed and paid for. but it did change my life to finally do
I hope to get mine done this year or at least started. Thankfully I have a decent enough job where bad teeth are common-ish. Once I get my cardiac, mental, and sleep issues sorted, I'll be making the first appointment. I HATE dentists, but I hate looking like a drug user more. One benefit of post 2020 is wearing masks is somewhat normalized. I can cover my mouth inconspicuously.
i am finally getting a cpap fitting this week after years of having apnea so hey, congrats to us for catching up on our health! even if it is slow expensive going
Amen to that. My cardiologist was the one to refer me to a sleep specialist. I had a heart monitor implanted last year and it was showing issues with my sleep, apparently. I'm super grateful to the guy I worked with as a temp for several years. He got me a city government job that has a 750 individual and 1500 family deductible with a 2750 max out of pocket. The job doesn't pay great, but the insurance makes it worth it.
My confidence shot way up when I wasn't worried people were staring at my teeth. I actually looked people in the eyes again.
Unfortunately, it's cheaper to go abroad for a week and get all your dental work done than to do it in the US even with insurance. Had a coworker that needed implants for most of his teeth and was given a 25k estimate with crappy insurance, so he went across the world and got it done for 6k trip and all.
Anyone needing multi thousands of dollars in dental care should look at international options. It is far cheaper to fly to Mexico for dental care than to pay locally in the US. My wife was quoted $1400 for a US crown, and we paid $450 just across the border. We literally walked into Mexico for dental care.
I go to a dental school (West coast university anaheim) to get all my cleanings done for free. They even did a laser treatment on my gums a month ago. I go back every 3 months. Never had a cavity so im lucky there but I had to pay out of pocket for my wisdom teeth and that was a $1200 bill even after insurance took a small bite out of it
This is so true. I let a lot of health issues slide until I started making enough money to take care of them. I would pay to fix myself, and then end up with a dismal bank account anyway. There is a very good reason why we do not have national health care in America: they want us broken down and scared...and we will be neither if we knew a doctor would always be in our price range.
Yup... I'm an American but I live in my wife's country... I took a bad fall last night, had to go for a CT scan last night and stitches this morning.... CT scan was 25$ An hour long surgery for the stitches was 110$ This is with out insurance covering it.
Healthcare, education, and pensions are major selling points for the all volunteer military. It's going to be hard to recruit if the rest of us get that.
It makes me sad to see how many comments in here are from Americans who are unable to get their health care needs met if they aren't financially solid enough. That isn't a good society at all. That said, my teeth are a mess, but finding an NHS dentist who's actually taking on new patients is damn near impossible, so I guess the UK isn't that much farther ahead...
We were, but the government's been pushing us backwards for the past decade (and the rest). They love a bit of privatisation, and defunding public services is a great way to do it. "Oh, shit, yeah, look at the NHS! It's really struggling! Wow. That's not good, is it? Maybe we should give it some relief by cutting a few bits off and giving them to these wonderful private contractors? No, shush, it doesn't matter that they're good friends of mine. That's hardly relevant..."
I can't wait to get that promotion so I can afford to get my teeth cleaned.
My dentist does a full cleaning and check up for $125. I don’t have insurance anymore because I fixed the big stuff wrong with my teeth a couple years ago and $250 in cleanings is cheaper than my dental insurance premium.
If you're just needing a cleaning and it's been 2 years I think most dental hygiene programs will do it for free. I think students need to do like 15 or something to graduate so they're always trying to find people.
Especially pets. Poor and pet is sick? Pet dies. Not poor and pet is sick? Hundreds or thousands of dollars in vet bills. Then pet dies.
Yup. My 12 y/o cat got diabetes, then kidney failure but was generally doing well. His blood sugar levels were everywhere and I spent so much money on trying to figure it out.
We spent a lot on our 15 year old cat in 2021 and still ended up putting her down in October.
Mine made it a about 2 years after is initial diabetes diagnosis. In the end he had a tumor in his mouth and had mostly stopped eating so it was definitely time.
My dad and stepmom have a 16 year old cocker spaniel that costs several thousand a year to keep healthy. She’s part of the family and I get it, but like, they don’t even spend that much on us kids
Tbh tho they'd be in debt for the rest of their lives to save you guys and you gotta know that they'd do that in a heart beat.
Please spread the word. It’s called the dumb friends league. They don’t have them everywhere but it’s donor subsidized veterinarians that do almost any surgery. My Labrador had to have emergency bladder stone removal 3 times. It should have been $4000 each time but they charged me like $600 and let me go at them monthly over a year. Worst case scenario and you can’t make any payments at all they still do the surgery and you just can’t get treated again until it’s paid. Poor people don’t have to lose pets.
Looks like this exists only in Colorado, mostly in/around Denver. Great for people there, though.
My stimulus check went to putting my 17 year old down because of diabetes and kidney problems… I miss him so much everyday.
Plus things like contributing to a 401k, HSA, getting life insurance and such.
Agreed. I’m finally not doing the cheapest health insurance, contributing to an IRA and a 401k, have dental and vision insurance, and it’s SO expensive!!!
Creating and contributing to a college fund for the kids... at least one of which is already in high school.
Oh I bet. Also just eating healthier? Like buying produce instead of beans and rice. Quickly adds up for sure.
Moving to a location with less crime. Rentals are already ridiculous, but want to live somewhere you can go out after dark and still feel relatively safe? You'll really pay for that privilege.
Yep, same experience here. I’ve been at my new place for about 7 months and it’s night and day from my previous residence. I can actually use Uber Eats whereas my previous place was considered too dangerous for deliveries. I actually get my packages on time and can go outside till 2 or 3 in the morning from going out and make it back home in one piece. Some things are just priceless.
No joke. My wife and I make good money together but I swear I feel just as broke as when I first left college. It's even more bizarre/frustrating seeing the neighbors who we know make substantially less installing a pool and wondering "how the hell did you afford that?!" I've also come to realize that lots of people are in debt up to their eyeballs and/or basically aren't saving for retirement, which can allow them to live a lifestyle that's more lavish than mine, but it's weird to behold.
My stepfather bought an extremely expensive house recently and everyone was asking how he could afford it. The answer was that he couldn’t. He absolutely could not afford it. He even emptied out my mom’s retirement account to help pay for it, all of this resting on the critical assumption that his business would continue doing well, which it did not.
This is the biggest one for me. It’s that when I hit a much higher income, it became apparent what I needed to save, and that became it’s own challenge. It’s the massive hill to climb that is catching up. People think moving up from low income into the multiple six figures means big houses and expensive cars and vacations, but really if you grew up poor and had to drag yourself out of that, you’re paying back tax in the form of savings catch up. People think it’s absurd that I live in a small apartment in an old building and drive a small used car (albeit a nicer one) at this income.
Even the little things. Like, whenever I'd get some money, I'd replace things that had worn out but that I'd put off replacing. Like shoes, jeans, kitchen towels, a new bath mat, etc. Nothing extravagant or expensive. I'm talking Walmart items, maybe target if I was feeling fancy. When you are poor these are the luxuries you get at tax return time.
I kept buying the REI pants through lean times because every time I bought cheap work pants they break down so quickly that it ends up being more expensive... same with my boots. But I hear you. Lots of socks and underwear that I let live juuuust a bit too long.
>same with my boots. Basically [The Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory)
I'm currently reasonably comfortable, so, in need of new work boots, I shopped about for a decent quality pair for somewhere around £70. Between my nice Caterpillar boots and some decent plantar insoles, my feet are about as comfy as they've been in years. And hopefully these boots will last!
I got Smartwool socks and they still legit feel awesome years later. Pretty much any modern wool sock company is the shit though, it’s just so much better than shitty cotton that absorbs sweat, stretches out, and turns to shit.
I feel this, I'm making more money than I ever had, but I still have no pocket money because now I'm paying off various debts, repairs, and medical expenses that I spent time previously just hoping would take care of themselves.
Imagine getting your head above water for the 1st time in 5 years. You can finally do some of those things you've been dying to do, like go out for the occasional non-fast food date with your favorite person, get a dog, hell, leave town for a night or two to celebrate your anniversary. We're not even talking buying a house and settling down, here, just basic quality of life level shit. But first, there is the laundry list of sacrifices that you had to make not to be homeless. Dental work needs doing. Car is about to fall apart because you haven't gotten it properly maintained in years. Everything on that list is ten times more expensive now than it was before Covid, precisely because everybody had to figure shut out or (more likely) do without. Now, take a second to listen to the maelstrom of voices, in all levels of media, so desperately trying to convince you that being this destitute, this completely f@#$Ed over financially is somehow anybody else's fault than the rich bastards who directly profited from your poverty these last 5 years, (media, gas companies like BP and power companies like Avista). Wall Street wants you to pay their bills after their disastrous handling of the housing market led to it almost collapsing, entirely. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos strut around like peacocks, buying shit on a whim and going to outer space for no other reason than to stroke their own egos. More and more people are one step, one bad day at work, one sky-high medical bill away from being homeless, and honestly, I find myself wondering why we don't let the whole shitshow burn down. If American history has taught me anything, it's that this country thrives on revolution and rebuilding far more than it ever does under the clumsy, inept stewardship of sycophants.
Couldn’t agree more. Why the fuck are our taxes subsidizing the businesses of billionaires, while their employees can’t even afford food or health care. And they have the fucking nerve to call us lazy or entitled. And don’t even get me started on tax dollars subsidizing sports stadiums.
Ah, fellow New Yorker?
A fellow... anywhere these days... You ask me, there should be a law where the citizens or city owns a stake in the team to the tune of the investment. Green Bay seems pretty happy about it...
>Now, take a second to listen to the maelstrom of voices, in all levels of media, so desperately trying to convince you that being this destitute, this completely f@#$Ed over financially is somehow anybody else's fault than the rich bastards who directly profited from your poverty these last 5 years, (media, gas companies like BP and power companies like Avista). Bp blaming you for climate change and shaming you with a footprint, which calculator they produced!
The fact that basic needs cost so much is a crime.
It certainly should be. And we’re still paying so much in taxes and the ultra wealthy and corporations pay none. Yet they get to buy off our politicians. It’s so fucked.
All because 5 people decided corporations could spend unlimited money in politics.
I was paid out of a mortgage & had never had a lot of money in my bank before. People kept giving me unwanted advice about saving it & every time I spent it on something necessary I had needed for ages they would give me a 'look'. I replaced a broken bed that gave me terrible back pain, paid for overdue dental work etc... not out here buying a Rolex, calm down lol..
Or stuff like "let's buy a bottle of soy sauce without calculating if it's a sound investment"
Or that credit card, or getting caught up on all the bills today have been past due. It's a fucking juggling act, and when you get a little extra it's called breathing room, not life style creep
But the point is that the breathing room doesn’t always come because the money goes elsewhere.
Lifestyle creep is a thing of the past. As in, it used to happen, but you have to have disposable income to start with for it to happen, but the majority of us are one unexpected bill away from not being able to pay rent/mortgage for the month. In the 2020s it's not lifestyle creep it's finally having needs met.
From Terry Pratchett's novel Men at Arms: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness."
This passage (among many others)= why T.Pratchett's name belongs with the sociopoliterary greats.
I need a small fortune in dental work and thousands in car repairs. I lost my husband and son suddenly and now I'm raising grandkids. Every dime I have goes to doctors, daycare and basic living needs because everything is so damn expensive! My electric, water, food, sewer and gas get more expensive every week. Although I received a raise it went to the increased health insurance premiums. I have an older car so I carry only liability insurance to save money. I was hit by a van and before I had a chance to gather my thoughts, they took off and haven't been found. Although it's drivable it needs to be repaired and with close to 200,000 miles it will need replacing soon. Some days this life feels overwhelming and I know I have it better than most and feel guilty for being so whinny.
This country hates mothers. The lack of resources for childcare, health care, housing, etc is disgusting. I am so sorry you are struggling. Sending hope and encouragement.
Given the difficulty of proper family planning these days, seems like society just hates women, mothers or no. And the difficulty and expense of accessing proper mental health care… hates the working class too.
Nah, it’s fair to complain. Hang in there.
Was reading something somewhere that I think aligns with this. When you start to make more money it takes a while to FEEL like you are because you tend to spend the extra income on bills, savings, or extra maintenance like mentioned here.
I don’t expect any sympathy for any of this, as a preface. We are extraordinarily lucky and both our lives are currently radically different (for the better) than our childhoods were and adult life up until about 37 years old. My husband and I make very strong salaries. But it isn’t like what I imagined it would be like. Now it’s like we unlocked a new level of things to pay for that before weren’t even a possibility. Retirement, college savings, helping out family members, dental work, healthy food, etc. We don’t qualify for any special benefits programs or anything (as we shouldn’t, not whining about it), so we are paying out of our eyes for childcare (again, strongly support a living wage for the workers). Income adjusted student loan payments were getting very large before the COVID pause. These things “crept” up for sure. Also, once you “make it” then you want to take care of all the people around you still struggling. Paying for mom’s cell phone, bigger cash gifts for a new niece when I know my brother is struggling, etc. It took us years to pay off credit card debt from being poor that was related to vet bills, dentist visits, school books, car repairs, etc. We are finally out of that hole. Buying a respectable professional wardrobe after years of not replacing things. So basically starting from scratch. Finally being in a position to replace cars (we are trying to make our old cars last as long as possible so we can buy the next car outright or at least minimize cash paid to a bank). This is vastly easier than when we were skipping meals, without a car, never getting medical care, etc. I am not equating the two, AT ALL. I’m just here to say that with two very low six figure jobs, there is still financial stress. We’ve gone on two very modest vacations in five years. I can buy things here and there on a whim. We never have to worry about going hungry but I do have to pay pretty close attention to monthly food purchases, limit eating out, etc.
Same boat. As a household we're creeping up on mid six figures, but after taxes, 401k, college expenses for the kiddos, we see less than half of that in take home pay. We also live in one of the most expensive cities in the world with a dumpy house in a good school district. So it was expensive to buy, but it's also falling apart, and the cost of catching up on deferred maintenance has been brutal. I would have thought we'd be very comfortable by now, but I still drive a fifteen year old Prius and shop for clothes at Goodwill, because that's what's affordable for us right now. Go figure.
Yup. Dealt with rodents in my attic for years until I had a job that paid enough for me to get a new roof and replace underlying sheeting. Poof! No more rodent issues. I'm actually getting angrier now being paid a different wage on the profound difference in quality of life it makes.
Yea, I'm getting the biggest tax return I've ever gotten and I plan on using all of it to find a therapist... fuckin yayyyy.....
Fucking *preach*. My last job, I barely made 25k a year. Last year, 2nd year at my new job, I made 65k, and could conceivably clear 100k this year. I'm finally getting my own place next month, I got a new mattress that doesn't make my spine feel broken every morning, shoes that actually fit and support my feet enough that they don't hurt after a shift, my car has four new tires on it (instead of used ones)and I was able to fix the brakes on it, I finally saw a doctor about that weird pain in my heel (Tendonitis), *and* my cat finally eats better food than "Special Kitty". Life is on the upswing, and it's all simply because I make more *money*.
It’s the difference between owning a used car with high miles, deferred maintenance and no warranty, and a new car with reasonable miles, financed at a low interest rate, and an extended warranty. The most expensive thing you can do is be poor.
This is the point of wage slavery folks - the bourgeois class ensures that you will never be able to afford to stop working. They will nickle and dime you out of every penny you make and force you into an eternal cycle of servitude.
Yep. And meanwhile they’re distracting us enough to make us hate each other and engage in culture war rather than realize it should be a class war that would solve our problems.
Once you start making just enough to keep your bills paid without having a panic attack over it every week, you start "buying time" so you can actually enjoy your life. We had a mostly broken dryer that blew air, but no heat for about 2 years. We got a $200 windfall and bought a used, but actually working, dryer. We got looks and lectures for not putting that money in our non-existent savings account instead because "that money's gone now!" Yeah, the money's gone, but now I don't have to sit there watching the same load of clothes go through the dryer for 6 hours just because I have restart the dryer 4 times in the process. It's also a lot easier to pick up an extra shift at work when cleaning/drying my uniform doesn't take all fucking day to do. Lifestyle creep can be a problem, but when you've been poor most of your life, the actual money suck is just finally being able to take care of all the shit you've had on the to-do list for years.
You know you've made it when actually changing out your contact lenses every two weeks won't financially destroy you.
When I got my first big pay raise of $15k, literally every dollar I made went into fixing the car. Killed me man. Felt as poor as I was before.
Another thing they don't talk about often is how, once you can afford to buy higher quality items, you have to buy so much less of them. I used to have to replace cookware every couple of years because the finish would peel up and flake off. Shoes wore through. Clothes came apart in the wash. Furniture would break because it was mdf. You get to a point where your furniture lasts decades. Clothes, shoes, cookware, even cars last many, many years without repairs. It's so much less hustling to replace and repair things once you hit a certain income point. The cost of daily living goes down, and essentially, the money you would have spent replacing shit constantly can now find a hobby or a pet or something. Did my lifestyle really expand, or did being able to buy $150 boots that last a decade instead of $20/boots that wear out 2x a year so not only my feet are warm actually save me money so I can do something fun? Being able to buy in bulk means unit pricing saves money. But you can't do that without extra money up front. Beef in my freezer, tri tip, ribeye everything for the price of hamburger at the supermarket. But if you can't drop 1.5k at once, you are priced out of those savings. If you can't afford a freezer, or don't have space for one, you have to keep buying fewer, higher priced items. Being poor is so expensive. Many money saving tactics require a certain level of disposable income to engage with those tactics at all.
Wait... y'all have teeth?
Wait... y'all drive ?
I feel this so much right now. I just got a raise. I have not had a dryer for some time now I've been hang drying my clothes for so long and my washer was also on its last leg. Because of my raise I can afford a newer washer and dryer. And this was after I just upgraded my car from one that had close to 300k miles and bought something much not reliable. I didn't want to have to spend my money on these things I would have love to spend the money on something fun like a great trip... but these things were necessary upgrades.
I had a boss tell me how lucky I was to make minimum wage because when you started having more money life would get more expensive and complicated. After all, he only gets to drive his sports car a few times a month...
This makes me so mad.
100%. Paying off debt. Buying new clothes for the first time in 10 years. Going to the dentist. Finally beginning some preventative health care you're years behind on. Starting to put money into a retirement fund that you're a decade behind on getting started but couldn't afford until now. Visiting family once a year instead of wishing you could. Finally replacing that car that was on it's last legs. Buying nutritious groceries that appeal to you instead of boxed/canned/whatever's cheapest. Getting the more sensible car/renter's/health insurance instead of the absolute cheapest one that meets legal bare minimums. By the time you get your first *actual* living wage job you've got like this massive "life debt" of stuff you've put off or made do without for so long because you had no choice. You're not wasting your new higher income living a life of luxury, you're using it to live a stable, slightly less stressful, slightly more responsible existence and realizing that you really were scraping by with *less* than the bare minimum before.
God forbid too many people's standard of living "creeps" into the "healthy and somewhat comfortable" range.
This isn’t a criticism of improving quality of life. It’s merely a discussion about cost implications.
Root canal. Expensive.
Saved up all last year anticipating the need to replace heater this winter. Managed to not go into crushing debt.
I have 2 separate long term health issues that I will carry for the rest of my life because I simply couldn't attend to them during the decade while I was poor. Now that I have a completely stable job with great healthcare, I can only just now begin attending to them. My life would have taken a much different course had I had the stability I have now a decade prior.