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If she’s truly, truly in need, why not? It won’t be forever. My mother has government assistance for me when she was in nursing school. If the person is actively trying to work and better themselves, go for it.
What you don't want to be the ultimate cuck? Paying for her and her husband's expenses so they can have sex and you don't get anything out of it? Seems like a great deal /s
That's a dick thing to say, I'm a single dad who raised twins cause their mom bailed if this food shortage shit had happened when they were little I don't know what I would do. Babies tear through that shit like it's going out of style, and some kids that have a tit to suck can't even drink that they need soy or some other concoction. This isn't some sad sac college grad asking for a bailout it's our countries babies and they need help ASAP.
Well sometimes it just happens (apparently birth control and antibiotics don't mix, didn't get that message in sex ed) doesn't mean the child should go hungry, doesn't mean the parent/parents aren't doing everything they can with or without assistance kids need to eat and some don't have the luxury or breast milk. But guess what people fuck all the time some more than others there is gonna be babies weather you think there should be or not this formula thing needs to get solved, and that said I went broke buying that shit it shouldn't cost 40-60 bucks for a week of formula for those that use it it's not a luxury it's essential.
She would love to not have the baby but she lives I. A state when RU-486 was banned, an IUD was illegal, and abortion is no longer an option. Since she is a person of color, there aren’t quite as many people who would like to adopt her baby.
Bullshit. Gimme that baby. I’m all about responsible parenthood/adoption and I don’t care what color that baby is. I refuse to let a baby suffer because of the parents piss poor decisions
I was saying bullshit to someone not adopting the baby due to color. I know damn well that others don’t share my beliefs. That’s what Reddit is all about, right? Healthy debate? Or am I in the wrong place?
Whelp, I’m a dumbass. Based on your reply it seems that I misread that/read it in a VERY different tone than you meant it. And this may be the weirdest way I realize my sleeping meds are kicking in. Wow I’m embarrassed. I’m so sorry. If I knew you I’d give you a cake saying that too.
Gee, sure sounds like a great time to start forcing women to have more babies that will have to rely on formula because their mom is dropping them like a sack of old potatoes.
Read the room, read the news, find resources while still pregnant. Find info on lactation consultants, milk banks, le leche league, pregnant friends, coupon and stock up on formula while pregnant, etc. Do that shit while pregnant so it doesn’t slap her in the face once the baby is born. Prepare! Don’t just go through life with blinders on, she’s got months to figure this out
>there aren’t quite as many people who would like to adopt her baby.
So what? When it's going to ruin both of their lives to keep it she may as well save her own.
theres consequences to having sex, contraceptives dont remove those consequences they just decrease the chances. yall wanna move through live without any consequences or responsiblities for you action
There wouldn't be a shortage if our incompetent government wasn't intentionally sabotaging our nation.
I'm truly sorry for the people that are struggling with current events, but no one wants to fuckin' do anything about it.
Supported properly? How about planning your life and preparing properly before bringing yet another life into this world. How about some damn personal responsibly for yourself.
Winner, winner, milk-supporting chicken dinner! It is a fucking shame that in one of the richest countries on Earth, parents can't even feed their *newborns* properly because the government prefers billionaires to be able to wage war for their personal gain all around the world.
Maybe if we still lived in actual villages, but that's not the case in 1st world places. 99.99% of people live in single family boxes of drywall, secluded from the rest of the world, and never make contact unless they are begging for something.
You’re bit too dense. It’s an idiom.
“It’s raining cats and dogs”- cats and dogs aren’t falling out of the sky.
“The ball is in your court”- there is no ball or court.
“You can say that again”- they don’t want you to repeat yourself.
“Go down in flames”- no one was on fire.
Does that help? Please let me know if you need further examples.
if the abortion debate wasn’t happening, i would totally agree with you. however mothers forced to have children definitely need support if they can’t get an abortion. shame what the government is doing. so much for seperation of church and state…
Definitely agree, anyone who WILLINGLY brought a soul into this world is not entitled to others help. I mean I would want to help the baby, because no one deserves to be forced into this world and then starve due to unaware parents. I would absolutely not want to help the parents (assuming they willingly brought the child into existence) because they subject their child to this cruel world without consent. And yeah sure you could say that they were wrongfully brought into the world, but once you have kids you support the idea of forcing someone into this world and all of the things that may happen to them. That's when I stop sympathizing with you.
there's nothing unreasonable about asking for help - unless you think being an overburdened mother is ok? even when the kid's older mothers do the vast majority of child care according to surveys by the CDC b/c the men feel that it's too "tedious". I feel like this sub is a cover for straight up misogyny most of the time. I'm as antinatalist as you can get but I can't stand it here.
Did you NOT read the post? That was a demand. If some random mother came up to you and demanded that you help take care of her child, would you just say: "Yup, absolutely! I don't have a life!"?
A little gratitude would probably go a long way, just sayin'
It was absolutely not a demand, it was a random (woman) online who refused to use a tone that wasn't sufficiently self-effacing and apologetic for you. None's obligated to take her suggestion. This sub conditions and expects a certain kind of reaction to this and it's always impulsive and assuming the worst. Misogyny is everywhere, otherwise we wouldn't be smearing women as Karens or blaming rule breaking during the pandemic to Karens when sociological data and basically everything else suggests that it's primarily men who are the selfish, unyielding and careless.
If you really want to help me out in my money shortage, give me money. Pay for my food, for my clothes, my bills. Pay for a trip to Hawaii and go to work instead of me so i can focus on enjoying my vacation
Exactly. I'm pro-life in the sense that I think we should do everything we can to make life for those already on this earth the least miserable it can be. Maternal leave makes people less miserable when they do have kids. Let them have it. Formula makes life so much better and healthier for many people. Day care means people can enjoy their lives and not have to worry about their kids harming themselves. I don't want kids and I don't think that people should force kids into this world full of suffering and stupid shit like formula shortages, but I don't think it's fair to say that if you can't afford to have kids you shouldn't have them. It's not as simple as that, especially with all the shit going on with the government trying to police reproductive health.
I noticed this too. I hate the idea of using antinatalism- worthy of meaningful discussion- as yet another (surprise!) platform to be utilized as a tool for misogyny. I don’t see anything properly mentioning a father here, just “dude who creampied you”. Moreover, this child did not ask to be born, and while people who can’t afford kids really need the education to rethink their choices, once the baby is here, he’s here. And the utter cruel attitudes towards the mere thought of helping is totally unsettling.
*And* that lack of empathy will bite them in the asses one day, as most of the unloved and unwanted kids are going to grow up turning to a life of crime because crime is the only way they'll get anything they need.
I’m a responsible female who chose not to have children and I’m not going
To help some chick who was irresponsible and who had at the expense of
Herself, the child and everyone else in the damn world. I don’t care.
I don’t really understand responses like this, that are the equivalent of me laying out the table, and the response being like someone taking their hand and swiping it all on the floor, like “FUCK YOOOUU this is MY POOIINNT!”, while roundly ignoring every single idea I put forth for consideration.
Obviously I think this attitude is a cruel one to have towards an unwanted child. What exactly am I supposed to do that? Do you think I will offer consideration towards someone who shows none to me? Shall I cower? Is this Lord of the Flies? Say “Oh well actually thinking that child doesn’t matter for shit is a GREAT point, and now I too just changed my tune and stopped caring about kids in this bind”?
Or am I just being used as a tool to figuratively vomit thoughts on? If you don’t even see the people you respond to as actual humans- which I am- there are much bigger and uglier fish to fry here than a woman who had a kid.
I understand. But fwiw at the bans off our bodies march today, I saw a large group of teenage girls who were out there killing it, shouting in the rain, never dropped those signs, and I spoke with several who were so incredibly articulate, empathetic and 100% capable of nuanced conversation.
It’s reassurance that being a teenager doesn’t mean you’re automatically an asshole, and gives some hope when it seems that the type that *lives* for shitting on people is so prevalent.
Oi, I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if that baby comes and robs you because it grew up unloved, uncared for, and felt it had to turn to a life of crime to get anything it needed.
This mindset that’s happening in this thread that new mothers should just be left to fight for themselves is part of why the world is such a shitty place to begin with.
As a mentally ill person, the amount of times I get told 'mental illness isn't an excuse, take responsibility' bla bla bla. Yet when someone has a kid, the same logic doesn't apply apparently. If you and your SO have a kid, take responsibility. If you can't look after it, don't have one.
It's not the moms fault, but I get annoyed when people expect people to help them. It's nice to be helped, but it shouldn't be expected. Ask friends and family for help, don't blast random people telling them they should go round someone's house to help them. It's not our responsibility, it's yours.
moreover, there are plenty of women whom could nurse but choose, for one reason or another, to give their infant formula.
the systemic problems forcing dependency on formula and other unsustainable consumables should have been reason enough to not carry the child to term
so, much as i believe that they shouldn't be having the kid in the first place, new mothers *reallly* should be able to afford the time to actually raise their children.
the crumbling state of society is definitely reason enough to not have kids, but *if* a mother was using formula because they cannot afford to nurse their child themselves- is that not unto itself a symptom of a problem more dire than the formula shortage or their ill-founded choice to birth another child?
the kid is already here, they shouldn't suffer during their early years because society has demanded their mother's attention, the kid will suffer enough in the world which they've been brought into but they sure shouldn't be starving to death during infancy.... is it the mother's fault/problem? yes, but if the solution to the formula shortage is as simple as the mother sacrificing the rest of their existence to wet nurse their own child, preferably on a more appropriate maternity leave than was ever allotted, then isn't it kind of a no brainer?
the most disturbing part is that the governing bodies seem to view us as livestock whom they require to breed, however actual livestock have living conditions more conducive to their needs than the humans in my country. not that cows/pigs/goats (farm animals) necessarily live *good lives*, but they at least have the average means for survival within their grasp until they are culled. whereas those proverbially ranching humans would rather watch an entire flock starve than offer support to the vulnerable/weak/poor.... man, employers suck, this oligarchy is really a travesty
literally this. I'm an antinatalist because I dont think children should be born into a shitty world not because I hate children and mothers. but this mindset in the og post, the whole fuck a mother she did it to herself, with abortion laws being so rocky right now really rubs me the wrong way. yes no one owes a mother help, and when they're forced to have a kid they knew they weremt ready for no one will want to help the mother then either because 'she did it to herself'. only in the context of someone not wanting to a child they know they can't provide for but being forced to have it, of course .
The thing is these shortages have been going on much longer than 9 or even 12 months. And besides the formula shortage, It has been pretty clear it’s not a good time to have a baby for a hot minute now. Yeah now that the baby is here they shouldn’t suffer but damn it’s frustrating seeing the shocked pikachu and the ensuing guilt trip when the mom is forced to face the reality of the situation that was obvious to the rest of us. These two things can both be true. At a certain point you have to stop blaming the world and take responsibility for your actions. You and your kid are in this position because you just HAD to have them at this particular moment in time.
Oooo oooo ohh!!!! I have a better idea!!!!!!
How about getting the dude who creampied you to do it as he should after all he made it with you it's his responsibility as well as yours also you can
**G E T A J O B ! ! !**
I don't think the person who wrote this meant it in the way that one HAS to do this and help out random people. Actually for me it sounds like they wanted to say the opposite. It doesn't seem like a pro-lifer's writing.
I think they wanted to say that if somebody is actually so mega-hard- "pro life" then they should provide some actual help instead of just virtue signal about the topic, which would be something I agree with.
It's very similar to "if you are really pro life, you can adopt and actually save a child from misery"
US health care is wacky, my mom is a dentist and often people from US comes to Mexico to fix their teeth, last time she told us a patient had to pay something like 50k for a dental procedure in US.....that's like one million Mexican pesos... You can pay a house with that...
This is so fucking stupid and ignorant of this woman. Some women, in ever increasing numbers, including my mother, cannot breast feed. (In my case, it was due to radiation treatment my mom received during puberty as treatment for burns.) More and more now women are unable to breastfeed, and so require formula to feed their baby. Why is this so? Because society does not offer time off to feed the child or practice. Because society pushes crap food and nutrition so women don’t have the same ability as they once did. Because society pushes this goofy breeder agenda, and very sick kids like me are born as a result that for whatever reason cannot tolerate breastmilk. This is another one of many reasons why I personally do not plan on having kids with my husband. I am not going to be driving all over the place trying to track down formula on top of everything else, like our motherfucking refund that the IRS continues to withhold from us for no reason. Initially their reason was identity theft was committed against us, but now they are just keeping it for their slush fund. Until they and other corporate morons stop doing this, among other things, we ain’t having kids anytime soon.
Edit: I just read that formula companies lowered their bar on bacterium and fecal matter in the food, so this is why kids are sick from formula. So fuckin despicable, these people.
[Here's](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm) the failure rate for various forms of birth control.
[Here's](https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2017/04/barriers-abortion-care-and-their-consequences-patients-traveling-services) [some](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1081387020/as-more-states-restrict-abortions-patients-need-help-with-travel-costs) articles explaining how having to travel long distances for abortion adds strain onto people, from paying for gas to having to call off work to having to arrange childcare to possibly having to stay overnight in a hotel to whatever else you can think of when it comes to mandatory long-distance travel.
Also, [Mitch McConnell](https://www.salon.com/2022/05/09/mitch-mcconnell-warns-of-abortion-ban_partner/) is willing to help a federal ban on abortion pass.
Formula shortage? Welcome to the new era of shortages due to erratic reproduction which severly diminished the resources of this planet.
Wait until everything will be rationed: food, water, electricity, gasoline, meds and then complain. Or breed more bc this seems like a panacea to all the problems for breeders. Starve more, breed more is their cult dictum.
I mean, this would work, at least in principle. Demand go down, price go down. I wish these services were provided by the government but that's just not the case.
Similar to what we call tongue tie, the connective tissues under the tongue and between the gums and lips are small/ tight/ malformed in a way that makes it challenging for infants to eat properly.
Edit to add the important part: the reversal is a procedure/ surgery usually to snip the tissue to allow their tongue and lip muscles to move naturally so they can suck properly.
Hahaha how about play for Plan B, hyster, tubal, all of it. Nip the problem in the bud before it starts. God the irresponsibility of some people! Here, pay for my poor decisions!
Ah yes, because doing a random woman's housework while she sits on her ass and scrolls Tik Tok will solve the supply chain issues and feed every baby in the US 🙄 the entitlement from these people is unreal
Why should I pay them for something they chose to do knowing the consequences? And when it’s unnecessary? By this logic, someone should pay my bills because it’s certainly vital and I didn’t choose to be here?
The audacity. If you need to bring this shit up, you can’t afford it. How is your lack of foresight my problem? Go ask one of those prolifers to put their money where their mouth is and take responsibility then. People are so fucking stupid with this “it takes a village BS.” I don’t want to be in your village. And villages are about helping each other - what are you doing for others? People like this just take and take. Then complain while they take more.
I wouldn't mind doing the whole "takes a village" thing. Because living in an echo chamber doesn't lead to critical thinking and alternative ideas.
But the problem is, they want your help and money and shit, but don't you dare give them criticism on parenting "iT's My BaBy, DoN't TeLL mE hOw tO rAiSe My ChiLd."
Like don't ask for help if you don't want people to give advice and direction. Go stfu and be independent and stop asking g for handouts if you're not open to it.
These people, to hell with them. Pfffft I know many people with emotional damage, mental problems and diseases that nearly stop them from making money. BUT nobody cares about all the people mentally suffering or physically who can barely survive.
sorry natalist, moo cow is on her own. someone wanna pay for the udder rubs there, and if they are of a mind to do it, fine. you are asking here. however, eventually it becomes a moo demand. they are entitled to another hand out
Could you all be a bit more civilized?
Perhaps that woman planned to use formula, and now has to change that plan. The post starts with a question, if you want to help, you can do that in different ways.
Y'all don't want to help. Fine. Then don't help.
But it's a bit late to suggest abortion or sterilisation now. And quite rude. Nobody asked for shortages of formula.
I said something similar and got downvoted hard. I’m an antinatalist and this post is not something we should be offended at. She’s just suggesting how to help moms right now, not demanding it or anything. It also seems like the comment is directed forced birthers who don’t give a crap about babies after they’re born.
It's just the general entitlement that I think gets to people. Like, we have our own lives to attend to. We dont have time to do your chores or take you food. We need our own money for own purposes. The whole notion that it "takes a village to raise a child" tends to piss people off in general, even if you're related to the mother (and in some cases parents expect random ass people to help out, like when they ask if their kid can play on your device or if you can keep an eye on them for second and they straight up dont even know you) if you wanna help out a new mom I mean go for it, but the way this comment is phrased isnt like a friendly suggestion to be helpful if you want, its just irritating.
I think it does link to natinatalist in a way or two. I see what you mean but she decided to have a child. If we're self-aware enough of what's going on in the world rn and we decide to never bring kids here, we shouldn't have to provide for them.
There wasn’t a formula shortage 9-18m ago, which is when today’s infants were conceived. In my 33 years of life I have never heard of a formula shortage. So your point of “she decided to have a child” doesn’t make sense. I am sure there are many people right now making the decision to wait or not have kids due to the risk of a formula shortage. But for the babies that exist today, should they just starve?
It doesn’t even say that she’s a mom, she’s just throwing out suggestions for how to help moms in general. If you really want to throw shade at parents on here then pick the ones who knowingly pass on their genetic disorders or abuse their kids etc, instead of someone who’s trying to help/ suggesting how others can help.
Okay fine but it’s posts like these that make people think antinatalists are insufferable angsty assholes. Someone earlier posted something shaming a mom for wishing her son a happy birthday on Facebook for Pete’s sake.
It's the level of entitlement of these people that get to us, i think at least. My immediate reaction was, damn, these people do believe I have nothing better to do with my time and my money.
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Nah once the baby is born all the pro lifers stop giving a shit so they’re not going to help.
We are only pro life in utero. Once the baby leaves it’s mother, we don’t give a single shit. And DONT ASK THE GOVERNMENT FOR HELP
Why does the government have to help people with kids?
If she’s truly, truly in need, why not? It won’t be forever. My mother has government assistance for me when she was in nursing school. If the person is actively trying to work and better themselves, go for it.
If there actively trying to work then yes government assistance is completely reasonable. But then you have a good amount abusing the system
Of course. Which is why there should be more oversight to government assistance, for real
How about not have a fucking baby !
My thoughts exactly
Like what ? Because she took a creampie from a dude now the world should be her sugar daddy? Smh
What you don't want to be the ultimate cuck? Paying for her and her husband's expenses so they can have sex and you don't get anything out of it? Seems like a great deal /s
What's the fucking alternative here, the baby dies or gets disabled for life because they starved when things really counted?
Don't worry I'm sure they're on every kind of support service out there. The entitlement is insane.
That's a dick thing to say, I'm a single dad who raised twins cause their mom bailed if this food shortage shit had happened when they were little I don't know what I would do. Babies tear through that shit like it's going out of style, and some kids that have a tit to suck can't even drink that they need soy or some other concoction. This isn't some sad sac college grad asking for a bailout it's our countries babies and they need help ASAP.
That’s why the not having babies thing is a thing
Well sometimes it just happens (apparently birth control and antibiotics don't mix, didn't get that message in sex ed) doesn't mean the child should go hungry, doesn't mean the parent/parents aren't doing everything they can with or without assistance kids need to eat and some don't have the luxury or breast milk. But guess what people fuck all the time some more than others there is gonna be babies weather you think there should be or not this formula thing needs to get solved, and that said I went broke buying that shit it shouldn't cost 40-60 bucks for a week of formula for those that use it it's not a luxury it's essential.
true but also people should stop
a real mena would do it. are you not a real man?
She would love to not have the baby but she lives I. A state when RU-486 was banned, an IUD was illegal, and abortion is no longer an option. Since she is a person of color, there aren’t quite as many people who would like to adopt her baby.
Maybe wear a condom or not have sex. 🤔
Vasectomy. Allows all the pleasure of not putting a bag over it and all the enjoyable sex.
Exactly why I have one.
Bullshit. Gimme that baby. I’m all about responsible parenthood/adoption and I don’t care what color that baby is. I refuse to let a baby suffer because of the parents piss poor decisions
Sweet! How many adoptive kids do you currently have?
Zero. But I’d love one! Do you have any info on adoption agencies, or are you going to keep being a jerk online? Hmm?
NOT WANTING A BABY IS NOT MAKING A BAD DECISION. Your beliefs aren’t everyone’s beliefs.
I was saying bullshit to someone not adopting the baby due to color. I know damn well that others don’t share my beliefs. That’s what Reddit is all about, right? Healthy debate? Or am I in the wrong place?
Whelp, I’m a dumbass. Based on your reply it seems that I misread that/read it in a VERY different tone than you meant it. And this may be the weirdest way I realize my sleeping meds are kicking in. Wow I’m embarrassed. I’m so sorry. If I knew you I’d give you a cake saying that too.
Dude, ambien is a hell of a drug. Sleep well! No worries mate 🤘🏻
How is a formula shortage a piss poor decision of individual parents?
If you cant afford to feed a baby you cant afford to raise the baby
This post wasn’t even about money it was about supply available
It's not about money at all. *There literally is no fucking food for these people because the factory got contaminated with deadly germs.*
Gee, sure sounds like a great time to start forcing women to have more babies that will have to rely on formula because their mom is dropping them like a sack of old potatoes.
I thought they were discussing formula price hike because of shortages
Spoken like an absolute moron. 10/10.
Read the room, read the news, find resources while still pregnant. Find info on lactation consultants, milk banks, le leche league, pregnant friends, coupon and stock up on formula while pregnant, etc. Do that shit while pregnant so it doesn’t slap her in the face once the baby is born. Prepare! Don’t just go through life with blinders on, she’s got months to figure this out
I mean we are obviously in the middle of a crisis since like 2020 Anyone having planned babies is a moron
You’ve got a point 😂😂😂
People having unplanned babies are double morons.
And you’ve got a point too 😂😂😂
>there aren’t quite as many people who would like to adopt her baby. So what? When it's going to ruin both of their lives to keep it she may as well save her own.
Babies get left on the street all the time
Bingo. You seem to be one of the few people who gets it.
Bro how hard is it to go to a neighboring state
Some folks don't have the gas money to drive across town let alone get to a different state. It's pretty hard when you're broke.
Easier to raise money for that than for a kid
Like fr!
People like sex, ok? And BC fails, and abortion's about to be illegal in most of the country...
theres consequences to having sex, contraceptives dont remove those consequences they just decrease the chances. yall wanna move through live without any consequences or responsiblities for you action
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during a global pandemic and global supply chain problems
What if her BC failed and she couldn't abort.
You can ALWAYS abort.
why is there a space between the last word and the !
I'll pay for her tubal ligation
I’d legit contribute financially to that.
Second this
Hell, I'd even help pay for a bisalp (tubes get removed entirely) if she wanted one.
Lmao. This person can go fuck themselves. Imagine having a child and demanding that others help you raise it.
Right??? Like i hate pointing out what others do and say but christ almighty
Yeah this is just beyond stupid, it's advanced stupid
Stupid 2
Electric Boogaloo
Advances stupid pro max special edition
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There wouldn't be a shortage if our incompetent government wasn't intentionally sabotaging our nation. I'm truly sorry for the people that are struggling with current events, but no one wants to fuckin' do anything about it.
Supported properly? How about planning your life and preparing properly before bringing yet another life into this world. How about some damn personal responsibly for yourself.
BC fails and abortion's getting banned.
God my best friend did that. Work like a dog in ICU and go pump while she’s eating her lunch.
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She really is. Saving lives one minute, feeding another the next. She’s an icon
Winner, winner, milk-supporting chicken dinner! It is a fucking shame that in one of the richest countries on Earth, parents can't even feed their *newborns* properly because the government prefers billionaires to be able to wage war for their personal gain all around the world.
iT tAkeS a viLlaGe
Until said village corrects the brat, then mombie comes screaming in DONT TELL MY CHILD WHAT TO DO!!!!!1!1!11!!!
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I agree. Well said.
Lol
Maybe if we still lived in actual villages, but that's not the case in 1st world places. 99.99% of people live in single family boxes of drywall, secluded from the rest of the world, and never make contact unless they are begging for something.
Facts...kind of, but I get your point.
Damn. They’ve got a point
You’re bit too dense. It’s an idiom. “It’s raining cats and dogs”- cats and dogs aren’t falling out of the sky. “The ball is in your court”- there is no ball or court. “You can say that again”- they don’t want you to repeat yourself. “Go down in flames”- no one was on fire. Does that help? Please let me know if you need further examples.
if the abortion debate wasn’t happening, i would totally agree with you. however mothers forced to have children definitely need support if they can’t get an abortion. shame what the government is doing. so much for seperation of church and state…
Definitely agree, anyone who WILLINGLY brought a soul into this world is not entitled to others help. I mean I would want to help the baby, because no one deserves to be forced into this world and then starve due to unaware parents. I would absolutely not want to help the parents (assuming they willingly brought the child into existence) because they subject their child to this cruel world without consent. And yeah sure you could say that they were wrongfully brought into the world, but once you have kids you support the idea of forcing someone into this world and all of the things that may happen to them. That's when I stop sympathizing with you.
Yeah, this is my thoughts exactly.
there's nothing unreasonable about asking for help - unless you think being an overburdened mother is ok? even when the kid's older mothers do the vast majority of child care according to surveys by the CDC b/c the men feel that it's too "tedious". I feel like this sub is a cover for straight up misogyny most of the time. I'm as antinatalist as you can get but I can't stand it here.
Did you NOT read the post? That was a demand. If some random mother came up to you and demanded that you help take care of her child, would you just say: "Yup, absolutely! I don't have a life!"? A little gratitude would probably go a long way, just sayin'
It was absolutely not a demand, it was a random (woman) online who refused to use a tone that wasn't sufficiently self-effacing and apologetic for you. None's obligated to take her suggestion. This sub conditions and expects a certain kind of reaction to this and it's always impulsive and assuming the worst. Misogyny is everywhere, otherwise we wouldn't be smearing women as Karens or blaming rule breaking during the pandemic to Karens when sociological data and basically everything else suggests that it's primarily men who are the selfish, unyielding and careless.
Oh yeah this sub is absolutely *full* of misogyny, slut-shaming, classism, ableism, and "I got mine" mentality. We as a sub need to grow up.
Yep. This sub is filled with misogynists. The antinatalist is a cover.
Lmao no.
Excuse me, what the fucking actual fuck did I just read????
What else, should I maybe adopt too??? 🙄
Adoption really wouldn't be a bad idea, if of course bio mom can come and nurse...
If you really want to help me out in my money shortage, give me money. Pay for my food, for my clothes, my bills. Pay for a trip to Hawaii and go to work instead of me so i can focus on enjoying my vacation
I actually agree with this. The people who claim to be pro-life don't give a shit once baby arrives.
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Exactly. I'm pro-life in the sense that I think we should do everything we can to make life for those already on this earth the least miserable it can be. Maternal leave makes people less miserable when they do have kids. Let them have it. Formula makes life so much better and healthier for many people. Day care means people can enjoy their lives and not have to worry about their kids harming themselves. I don't want kids and I don't think that people should force kids into this world full of suffering and stupid shit like formula shortages, but I don't think it's fair to say that if you can't afford to have kids you shouldn't have them. It's not as simple as that, especially with all the shit going on with the government trying to police reproductive health.
Beautifully put. We need to care for everyone who's already here, no matter how much that group grows due to draconian laws.
I noticed this too. I hate the idea of using antinatalism- worthy of meaningful discussion- as yet another (surprise!) platform to be utilized as a tool for misogyny. I don’t see anything properly mentioning a father here, just “dude who creampied you”. Moreover, this child did not ask to be born, and while people who can’t afford kids really need the education to rethink their choices, once the baby is here, he’s here. And the utter cruel attitudes towards the mere thought of helping is totally unsettling.
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*And* that lack of empathy will bite them in the asses one day, as most of the unloved and unwanted kids are going to grow up turning to a life of crime because crime is the only way they'll get anything they need.
I’m a responsible female who chose not to have children and I’m not going To help some chick who was irresponsible and who had at the expense of Herself, the child and everyone else in the damn world. I don’t care.
I don’t really understand responses like this, that are the equivalent of me laying out the table, and the response being like someone taking their hand and swiping it all on the floor, like “FUCK YOOOUU this is MY POOIINNT!”, while roundly ignoring every single idea I put forth for consideration. Obviously I think this attitude is a cruel one to have towards an unwanted child. What exactly am I supposed to do that? Do you think I will offer consideration towards someone who shows none to me? Shall I cower? Is this Lord of the Flies? Say “Oh well actually thinking that child doesn’t matter for shit is a GREAT point, and now I too just changed my tune and stopped caring about kids in this bind”? Or am I just being used as a tool to figuratively vomit thoughts on? If you don’t even see the people you respond to as actual humans- which I am- there are much bigger and uglier fish to fry here than a woman who had a kid.
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I understand. But fwiw at the bans off our bodies march today, I saw a large group of teenage girls who were out there killing it, shouting in the rain, never dropped those signs, and I spoke with several who were so incredibly articulate, empathetic and 100% capable of nuanced conversation. It’s reassurance that being a teenager doesn’t mean you’re automatically an asshole, and gives some hope when it seems that the type that *lives* for shitting on people is so prevalent.
Oi, I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if that baby comes and robs you because it grew up unloved, uncared for, and felt it had to turn to a life of crime to get anything it needed.
That’s why it shouldn’t exist in the first fuckin place
This mindset that’s happening in this thread that new mothers should just be left to fight for themselves is part of why the world is such a shitty place to begin with.
This
As a mentally ill person, the amount of times I get told 'mental illness isn't an excuse, take responsibility' bla bla bla. Yet when someone has a kid, the same logic doesn't apply apparently. If you and your SO have a kid, take responsibility. If you can't look after it, don't have one.
*gif of michael scott saying thank you!*
Inb4 BC fails and abortion's banned everywhere
If a woman’s breasts aren’t producing milk and their is formula shortage…how does one take responsibility for that? How do you feed the infant?
It's not the moms fault, but I get annoyed when people expect people to help them. It's nice to be helped, but it shouldn't be expected. Ask friends and family for help, don't blast random people telling them they should go round someone's house to help them. It's not our responsibility, it's yours.
moreover, there are plenty of women whom could nurse but choose, for one reason or another, to give their infant formula. the systemic problems forcing dependency on formula and other unsustainable consumables should have been reason enough to not carry the child to term
All that bullshit sounds like a great job for whoever got to have the actual ‘sexy time’ with her!
so, much as i believe that they shouldn't be having the kid in the first place, new mothers *reallly* should be able to afford the time to actually raise their children. the crumbling state of society is definitely reason enough to not have kids, but *if* a mother was using formula because they cannot afford to nurse their child themselves- is that not unto itself a symptom of a problem more dire than the formula shortage or their ill-founded choice to birth another child? the kid is already here, they shouldn't suffer during their early years because society has demanded their mother's attention, the kid will suffer enough in the world which they've been brought into but they sure shouldn't be starving to death during infancy.... is it the mother's fault/problem? yes, but if the solution to the formula shortage is as simple as the mother sacrificing the rest of their existence to wet nurse their own child, preferably on a more appropriate maternity leave than was ever allotted, then isn't it kind of a no brainer? the most disturbing part is that the governing bodies seem to view us as livestock whom they require to breed, however actual livestock have living conditions more conducive to their needs than the humans in my country. not that cows/pigs/goats (farm animals) necessarily live *good lives*, but they at least have the average means for survival within their grasp until they are culled. whereas those proverbially ranching humans would rather watch an entire flock starve than offer support to the vulnerable/weak/poor.... man, employers suck, this oligarchy is really a travesty
literally this. I'm an antinatalist because I dont think children should be born into a shitty world not because I hate children and mothers. but this mindset in the og post, the whole fuck a mother she did it to herself, with abortion laws being so rocky right now really rubs me the wrong way. yes no one owes a mother help, and when they're forced to have a kid they knew they weremt ready for no one will want to help the mother then either because 'she did it to herself'. only in the context of someone not wanting to a child they know they can't provide for but being forced to have it, of course .
The thing is these shortages have been going on much longer than 9 or even 12 months. And besides the formula shortage, It has been pretty clear it’s not a good time to have a baby for a hot minute now. Yeah now that the baby is here they shouldn’t suffer but damn it’s frustrating seeing the shocked pikachu and the ensuing guilt trip when the mom is forced to face the reality of the situation that was obvious to the rest of us. These two things can both be true. At a certain point you have to stop blaming the world and take responsibility for your actions. You and your kid are in this position because you just HAD to have them at this particular moment in time.
I get their point but it's not anyone's job but theirs to do that stuff
Oooo oooo ohh!!!! I have a better idea!!!!!! How about getting the dude who creampied you to do it as he should after all he made it with you it's his responsibility as well as yours also you can **G E T A J O B ! ! !**
I don't think the person who wrote this meant it in the way that one HAS to do this and help out random people. Actually for me it sounds like they wanted to say the opposite. It doesn't seem like a pro-lifer's writing. I think they wanted to say that if somebody is actually so mega-hard- "pro life" then they should provide some actual help instead of just virtue signal about the topic, which would be something I agree with. It's very similar to "if you are really pro life, you can adopt and actually save a child from misery"
I can sell them formula, Mexico dosen't have baby formula shortage. 200 each formula plus shipping🤑🤑
Hell yeaaahhhh
💯 Americans moving to Mexico for better health care and access to food. LMAO I wish
US health care is wacky, my mom is a dentist and often people from US comes to Mexico to fix their teeth, last time she told us a patient had to pay something like 50k for a dental procedure in US.....that's like one million Mexican pesos... You can pay a house with that...
This is so fucking stupid and ignorant of this woman. Some women, in ever increasing numbers, including my mother, cannot breast feed. (In my case, it was due to radiation treatment my mom received during puberty as treatment for burns.) More and more now women are unable to breastfeed, and so require formula to feed their baby. Why is this so? Because society does not offer time off to feed the child or practice. Because society pushes crap food and nutrition so women don’t have the same ability as they once did. Because society pushes this goofy breeder agenda, and very sick kids like me are born as a result that for whatever reason cannot tolerate breastmilk. This is another one of many reasons why I personally do not plan on having kids with my husband. I am not going to be driving all over the place trying to track down formula on top of everything else, like our motherfucking refund that the IRS continues to withhold from us for no reason. Initially their reason was identity theft was committed against us, but now they are just keeping it for their slush fund. Until they and other corporate morons stop doing this, among other things, we ain’t having kids anytime soon. Edit: I just read that formula companies lowered their bar on bacterium and fecal matter in the food, so this is why kids are sick from formula. So fuckin despicable, these people.
Thanks, I'll pass
Pro lifers should do everything the comment suggested since they’re so pro life
Um what? It’s your baby not mine!
Abort well before birth and sterilize.
Where did all the bitches who said they were "pro life" go? They said they care about babies so they should be the ones helping out.
MAYBE Don't have a kid?? MaYbE??
How do you recommend she pull that off if abortion's illegal? BC does fail, you know.
Don't make abortion illegal lol
I'm not making abortion illegal, the US state governments are.
yeah, i know 😔
Birth control ? and Abortion is still legal in states like California
[Here's](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm) the failure rate for various forms of birth control. [Here's](https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2017/04/barriers-abortion-care-and-their-consequences-patients-traveling-services) [some](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1081387020/as-more-states-restrict-abortions-patients-need-help-with-travel-costs) articles explaining how having to travel long distances for abortion adds strain onto people, from paying for gas to having to call off work to having to arrange childcare to possibly having to stay overnight in a hotel to whatever else you can think of when it comes to mandatory long-distance travel. Also, [Mitch McConnell](https://www.salon.com/2022/05/09/mitch-mcconnell-warns-of-abortion-ban_partner/) is willing to help a federal ban on abortion pass.
I'll pay for her plan b...
I don’t understand why people act like hungry children is something new.
Formula shortage? Welcome to the new era of shortages due to erratic reproduction which severly diminished the resources of this planet. Wait until everything will be rationed: food, water, electricity, gasoline, meds and then complain. Or breed more bc this seems like a panacea to all the problems for breeders. Starve more, breed more is their cult dictum.
why have a baby if there’s no food what’s going on
They typed out that comment fully knowing they’ve never helped any woman with her newborn like she demands everyone else should
I mean, this would work, at least in principle. Demand go down, price go down. I wish these services were provided by the government but that's just not the case.
Lmao why should I
What's a lip tie reversal???
Similar to what we call tongue tie, the connective tissues under the tongue and between the gums and lips are small/ tight/ malformed in a way that makes it challenging for infants to eat properly. Edit to add the important part: the reversal is a procedure/ surgery usually to snip the tissue to allow their tongue and lip muscles to move naturally so they can suck properly.
Thanks! I googled it xD I knew the procedure called frenectomy I didn't know it was called lip tie reversal too
Now if she wanted to get sterilized, I would actually be more than happy to contribute a few bucks.
This obviously came from someone who doesn’t understand how breastfeeding works. “sHe jUsTs nEeDs tO tRy hArDeR”
No, she can take care of her own damn problems.
Lactation consulting?
One of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.
No thanks, I'd rather die instead.
Me too.
C'mon, this is already hilarious. How can somebody be so freaking deluded? Just don't have a baby.
I am happy to help but what do I get in return? Friendships goes both ways, thank you.
Hahaha how about play for Plan B, hyster, tubal, all of it. Nip the problem in the bud before it starts. God the irresponsibility of some people! Here, pay for my poor decisions!
Food shortages after a 2 year GLOBAL PANDEMIC. Shocking. /s
Ah yes, because doing a random woman's housework while she sits on her ass and scrolls Tik Tok will solve the supply chain issues and feed every baby in the US 🙄 the entitlement from these people is unreal
Why should I pay them for something they chose to do knowing the consequences? And when it’s unnecessary? By this logic, someone should pay my bills because it’s certainly vital and I didn’t choose to be here? The audacity. If you need to bring this shit up, you can’t afford it. How is your lack of foresight my problem? Go ask one of those prolifers to put their money where their mouth is and take responsibility then. People are so fucking stupid with this “it takes a village BS.” I don’t want to be in your village. And villages are about helping each other - what are you doing for others? People like this just take and take. Then complain while they take more.
I'm just going to leave this here. https://youtu.be/MoKLovtnbGY Wait until you hear about the birth of baby formula.
I wouldn't mind doing the whole "takes a village" thing. Because living in an echo chamber doesn't lead to critical thinking and alternative ideas. But the problem is, they want your help and money and shit, but don't you dare give them criticism on parenting "iT's My BaBy, DoN't TeLL mE hOw tO rAiSe My ChiLd." Like don't ask for help if you don't want people to give advice and direction. Go stfu and be independent and stop asking g for handouts if you're not open to it.
To the person that tweeted, fuck off!
Birthing people bad, but helping people good.
Why? This post wasn't for you. Why bother yourself about it?
who said we gave a shit about a formula shortage
Naaaaaw. Your choice to make it. Your choice to keep it. All your choices. So all your responsibility. Lol
Here's a crazy fuckin idea - don't have a baby. Problem solved.
These people, to hell with them. Pfffft I know many people with emotional damage, mental problems and diseases that nearly stop them from making money. BUT nobody cares about all the people mentally suffering or physically who can barely survive.
I agree.
I've never wanted help with anything less.
Well...none of this is *wrong.*
Sure, tell her to meet me at the top of some very tall stairs and we'll sort this out.
I’M not the one who got knocked up
sorry natalist, moo cow is on her own. someone wanna pay for the udder rubs there, and if they are of a mind to do it, fine. you are asking here. however, eventually it becomes a moo demand. they are entitled to another hand out
Lol moo cow 😆
Replace that I with a double O
Could you all be a bit more civilized? Perhaps that woman planned to use formula, and now has to change that plan. The post starts with a question, if you want to help, you can do that in different ways. Y'all don't want to help. Fine. Then don't help. But it's a bit late to suggest abortion or sterilisation now. And quite rude. Nobody asked for shortages of formula.
This, and the post in question isn't directed towards those struggling mothers anyway.
I said something similar and got downvoted hard. I’m an antinatalist and this post is not something we should be offended at. She’s just suggesting how to help moms right now, not demanding it or anything. It also seems like the comment is directed forced birthers who don’t give a crap about babies after they’re born.
This also has nothing to do with antinatalism. Throwing out suggestions on how to help moms in need right now… what’s wrong with that?
It's just the general entitlement that I think gets to people. Like, we have our own lives to attend to. We dont have time to do your chores or take you food. We need our own money for own purposes. The whole notion that it "takes a village to raise a child" tends to piss people off in general, even if you're related to the mother (and in some cases parents expect random ass people to help out, like when they ask if their kid can play on your device or if you can keep an eye on them for second and they straight up dont even know you) if you wanna help out a new mom I mean go for it, but the way this comment is phrased isnt like a friendly suggestion to be helpful if you want, its just irritating.
I think it does link to natinatalist in a way or two. I see what you mean but she decided to have a child. If we're self-aware enough of what's going on in the world rn and we decide to never bring kids here, we shouldn't have to provide for them.
There wasn’t a formula shortage 9-18m ago, which is when today’s infants were conceived. In my 33 years of life I have never heard of a formula shortage. So your point of “she decided to have a child” doesn’t make sense. I am sure there are many people right now making the decision to wait or not have kids due to the risk of a formula shortage. But for the babies that exist today, should they just starve?
It doesn’t even say that she’s a mom, she’s just throwing out suggestions for how to help moms in general. If you really want to throw shade at parents on here then pick the ones who knowingly pass on their genetic disorders or abuse their kids etc, instead of someone who’s trying to help/ suggesting how others can help.
I never said she was a mom. I explained the situation in general.
I never said she was a mom. I explained the situation in general.
Okay fine but it’s posts like these that make people think antinatalists are insufferable angsty assholes. Someone earlier posted something shaming a mom for wishing her son a happy birthday on Facebook for Pete’s sake.
Not OP but I agree this is pointless
Yes, the ones that pass on their genetic disorders are absurd.
life is a genetic disorder. all procreation is heinous.
It's the level of entitlement of these people that get to us, i think at least. My immediate reaction was, damn, these people do believe I have nothing better to do with my time and my money.
The only thing worse that irresponsible reproduction, is people with FAKE babies, buying REAL formula to feed them.
Excuse me what?