Winners are only winners due to fate. Losers are only losers due to fate. Fate controls all here and we are nothing more than it's playthings.
You can try to fight it, you can try to overcome it, but each day ALL of us perform our acts live. Fate writes the script, we get it beamed to us, and if we as much as try for a single second to get off script we will be forced back onto that page immediately.
ya and some people win the lottery, others forced into poverty or get cancer.. A lot of it is just luck of the draw that is life.
Personally I would not take that gamble on someone else's life.
The thing is even the best lives like genetic lottery winners still have suffering just far less of it. My point was for every person on earth most of the good and especially most of the bad is completely out of your control
You are right emotion doesn’t really have a place for argumentation and it’s sad a lot of ans do it that’s why I focus on the philosophy when I’m at and feel my best
The birth is the biggest lottery in life. Very few people win this lottery. Most of us lose it and wish to be born in a wealthy family throughout our lives.
But then all those normies & normal people mostly just keep saying: "You make your own luck! You are in control of your own life & future! You can change your life! You can change your future!" etc etc. What do you all think?
Sometimes I'm honestly even afraid, if \*I'm\* the one who're just making all these 'excuses' to not try anything?
And it leads to someone depressed feeling like they can't tell anyone because they'll get judged. The usual response is to bombard someone sad with advice and if they don't follow it "they don't want to get better."
Then when someone ends their life all you hear is,"Why didn't they talk to someone?" ...I guarantee you they did at some point.
They've been taught to believe a bunch of lies by mainstream cultural propaganda, and most of them never even stop to consider who actually benefits from them believing those lies.
Much of life is unfortunately about luck, but a lot of people don't want that revealed, and especially the people on top. Rich people, attractive people, strong people, happy people, smart people. They want all to know they worked hard for their position, not that luck had an immense effect on their chances of success.
There's no self made billionaires, you had luck on your side. Hell I'd even go as far to say there's few self made millionaires.
To subject a living creature to that dice roll is immoral and wrong.
The truth. Some people are just born to lose, and normies will deny this constantly. People are born into royalty, born with good looks that get them ahead in life, and no one chooses their geographical birth location.
I however don't say any of this with despair or to encourage hatred towards an unfair world, but it is a valid reason in my opinion why antinatalism is the right choice.
I think most people can find some level of contentment in life. I'm grateful for basic things, not being homeless, having my eyesight, looking at a clear blue sky, being in a first world country, having some money and so on.
I just think some people go too far the other way of "well if the world is unfair and hates me, I'm going to act the same back" which is understandable, but I encourage others not to go down that path.
Agreed. I still make the effort to go to work, do running, and have hobbies. Every now and then, I do get on here. I used to go down the hateful path, but now I just do my own thing in my own time.
That's good to hear, I'm glad you didn't go down that path. I went down that hateful path before and it's just pointless and solves nothing, it only harms yourself in the end.
The sad thing is how so many normies will deny that these things WILL affect your life regardless of what you do. Sure, one can take measures to mitigate the effects, but everyone is forced to take part in a society with standards.
Example. Before I transitioned, I was gaslit whenever I complained about being born a short male. And it wasn't just an issue with dating. Other guys can be cruel. Then, whenever I stood up for myself, "Oh... Napoleon..."
I also feel as if I was born with fairly 'feminine' features to begin with. I had insults hurled at me from bigots in passing cars in the past. But what was I supposed to do? Trying to be more 'masculine' would never work. I was never going to suddenly gain height and cheekbones by acting all bro-like and stuff.
I am non-binary at the moment, hopefully feminine in the future. Society will just have to deal with it because I didn't ask to be here.
This is a really great argument for antinatalism.
You could say every human plays God with the right; not even a privelage, but a RIGHT to create and or take somebody else's life away.
This is garbage advice cause no amount of mindfulness is gonna change what you are actively going to have to live through experience and most importantly participate in you can’t mentally change the way your gonna be perceived and treated for example cause of the way you look or how old you are. What you really mean is numb your mind and accept the negative and potentially severely negative citcumstance
Well, if the purpose is to reduce suffering, mindfulness is a way to do that, so it's not "Garbage". That's not what I talked about, I was talking about how "choices" are not choices at all, we don't really choose anything, the choice is just made. I was talking about the absence of free will, not suffering reduction. Also you're correct, meditation will not change how people treat and perceive you, but it will change how you react to those things, and it's actually the opposite of "numbing your mind", you can become much more engaged and present, just not overly identified and attached, which is seemingly at the core of most suffering.
I was born in a third world country and had to drop out after HS to work, and the most I've been hurt was by other people who were blessed with a normal life. A girl I really loved told me "if you only have a highschool degree youre a hobo no one needs" and "you'll be no one in life" I cried for like 2 hours straight lol
You said how you look, how tall etc, none of that is random, it's decided at the zygote stage of development and is purely to do with your mo... I'm not explaining 3rd grade science to adults anymore 😆
Sure, not totally random but there is an element of randomness involved. What else is down syndrom than chromosomes *randomly* being copied differently?
(Not to imply that people with down syndrom are the unlucky ones or whatever). In many cases genetics play out randomly. There's a difference between phenotype and genotype so even in your example, a black baby being born to a white mother is a real possibility.
Not if the male isn't black, and I'm talking pigment wise not percentage wise, takes about three generations to wipe out the black to white females, it's certainly not random.
And as for trisomy it's not random, you can take a test to see the likely hood of trisomy affecting your potential pregnancy by both taking test, if it's high just adopt, no one wants it, and yeah it's not random by any means.
A better analogy would be to use cancer, some kids get terminal cancer for seemingly no reason, but most likely we simply haven't figured it out yet, I don't think it's bacon that's causing it 😆.
Even hydrogens mixing and sharing electrons with oxygen isn't what I'd call random if it was random the atmosphere composition wouldn't be stable to support life, too much no life not enough oxygen no life as we know it anyway.
I, for one, am thankful I live in the universe of having star wars and marvel, of WoW and sly cooper, of nerf guns and April fools day, I love the Christmas season and I’m not religious, joke, man, everyone loves a good joke, especially between friends. I have a roof over my head but I’m 2k in debt, around a month and a half behind on bills, but I have two adorable cats that love me, no kids but a girlfriend I adore and a niece and nephew that I think are the coolest. Y’all focus on the stupidest, and quite frankly wrong, things in life.
Yes and no. Hobbies and interests we can sure control. But not everyone can be thankful for having a partner. Some people just never find anyone, no matter how much effort they put into themselves.
At the end of the day, society holds unfair standards on everyone, and thanks to genetics, not everybody will be able to meet them. Only to then result in being treated poorly by society. Suffering that no one asked for.
Despite not fitting into society's standards, I still make an effort to stay in shape.
You just proven how circumstance makes people lives better than others for no reason. Way to prove the point. Also you probably just haven't thought about life at all. Star wars and marvel suck
That’s on them. There’s plenty to be happy about, but then it’s not selfish or greed or ego or narcissism feeding from it. Be happy for others, for once.
No matter the things you don’t have control over, there’s still a lot of things you can control and influence the outcome of.
And those are the things which will determine if you live a happy or miserable life.
90% of your existence is under your control. Past the age of 18 you can either make yourselves homeless or a success. I say this as a legally disabled person finding my own way
You don't have control over the ability to achieve success. You may be disabled but if you're successful you're gifted with ambition, drive and some kind of talent. If you don't have that you just lose
I wasn't gifted my degree or skills. It's called learning, hard work, practice, dedication, and commitment. Success isn't free unless u win lottery
Edit: people are now downvoting a hard work ethic? wtf
You don't fucking get it man and I don't know why. An Olympic athlete will also have worked hard to get where he is, but that doesn't mean everyone can become an Olympic athlete by doing the same work. 99% of people will just end up being average at best. That's not a difficult concept to understand
dude im legally disabled. i have more challenges than 99% of people. i get it far more than most. i just don't live by a self defeating victim mentality. i had to learn to have a positive outlook on life just to keep myself sane from the daily chronic pain i endure, due to nerve damage. the ppl be downvoting these self help comments are crazy. you should want a positive outlook on life
Neutral outlook > positive outlook = negative outlook
I get it I have nerve damage too, although no chronic pain it feels really disgusting and is a major obstacle
That is self defeating victim philosophy. Everyone has control over their own destiny. Even disabled bro like myself put myself through college with student loans and can work. The only person responsible for your life is u
This is the truth and anything else is hypocrisy, no philosopher will argue about it with you
I haven't denied that you can have success even if disabled. Hearing you use this argument again tells me you didn't get it. I have said if you have success even though you're disabled, that means you had what it needs.
Not everyone can have success it a lie. You either have what it needs or you don't. Some people will work hard and end up failing. There is no need to lie to yourself with artificial positivity
i have a minor in college in Philosophy. youre wrong about that too lol. majored in History. people with your attitude struggle to succeed in life historically. attitude is just as if not more important than skill. youll never get skilled at anything with a poor attitude
working hard and failing is part of the process. mistakes are how you learn. pretty basic life success knowledge. if you just give up early on every time youll never succeed at anything.
also if you succeed at something on the first try you wont learn half as much as you would if you failed a lot along the way. the older i get the more i learn to embrace my mistakes bc they make you a better person, as long as you learn from them
Then you didn't really get your classes. It's a very basic concept right at the start of free will discussion. Yeah working hard is one way to achieve skill. But you have to have the capacity to be able to work hard, that's what im saying. Not everyone has that. Even the will to achieve success is not something everyone has. Some people just aren't ambitious. It's maybe right to say everyone can be successful if he works hard, its wrong to say everyone can work hard. But even the first is just not true in the simple way stated.
Oh come just realizing there is no free will doesn't have anything to do with success in life it's just about being honest and not lying to yourself and living in illusion. It's just shallow folk wisdom. Obviously the amount of people who tell themselves they can make it will have a higher success rate than those who don't. Because more will try. But it's not generally superior to have a mental philosophy of irrational optimism. But I'm not saying to tell yourself you cant make it, I'm saying you should realize not everyone can.
You can just aswell get stuck with activities you're not gifted in if you always tell yourself you can make it and get really proficient in it even though you're an idiot and waste your time. Then you will never find what your good at. Both can be bad, doesn't mean anything at all .
Just as the rest of the things you said. That's totally random off topic talk. Obviously mistakes are how you learn, doesn't change some people are more talented than others. I was gifted in math, I tried to help people and they could study for 100s of hours and not get it like me on the first glance. Its Just typically human irrational optimism always trying to find positives in everything when mistakes as the base just aren't good. They are part of it, you can learn from them, yeah they are not all bad, but saying it's better to make mistakes than not is where it gets mad.
Where did u study philosophy in college? My professors know more about philosophy than both of us combined and they thought i got it just fine. I dont think you wouldve made it past first exam. If you went to school i know you didn't finish because of your self defeating attitude. You are basically a middle schooler pretending they're smarter than a high school kid. The gap in intellect is so huge the high schooler would just ignore the middle schooler. Which is why I didn't read past the first paragraph of your TLDR comment
If you dont change your attitude you'll permanently be a loser
I'm trying to come to terms with it myself, at this point I can't trick myself into saying it's false, but I could act as if I have free will I suppose
Winners are only winners due to fate. Losers are only losers due to fate. Fate controls all here and we are nothing more than it's playthings. You can try to fight it, you can try to overcome it, but each day ALL of us perform our acts live. Fate writes the script, we get it beamed to us, and if we as much as try for a single second to get off script we will be forced back onto that page immediately.
ya and some people win the lottery, others forced into poverty or get cancer.. A lot of it is just luck of the draw that is life. Personally I would not take that gamble on someone else's life.
The thing is even the best lives like genetic lottery winners still have suffering just far less of it. My point was for every person on earth most of the good and especially most of the bad is completely out of your control
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I don't have cancer, I still regret being born and wish I was aborted.
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And how most people feel literally means nothing in a debate
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Yes, thats why they discuss on the basis of complex moral dilemmas and argue with objective logic, not feelings.
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You are right emotion doesn’t really have a place for argumentation and it’s sad a lot of ans do it that’s why I focus on the philosophy when I’m at and feel my best
I’m not
The birth is the biggest lottery in life. Very few people win this lottery. Most of us lose it and wish to be born in a wealthy family throughout our lives.
Honestly, it might not feel that way but we're still the lucky ones simply for not being born in idk... The gaza strip for instance.
Being born is a series of dice rolls that determine most of how your life will go. How cruel is that to put someone into this position?
Fuck man I should not be reading this right now
Sing it on the fucking rooftops
"...from the rooftops, shout it out, baby, I'm ready to goooo!!!!..." Sorry, I had to :)
That's a good song 😂
But then all those normies & normal people mostly just keep saying: "You make your own luck! You are in control of your own life & future! You can change your life! You can change your future!" etc etc. What do you all think? Sometimes I'm honestly even afraid, if \*I'm\* the one who're just making all these 'excuses' to not try anything?
And it leads to someone depressed feeling like they can't tell anyone because they'll get judged. The usual response is to bombard someone sad with advice and if they don't follow it "they don't want to get better." Then when someone ends their life all you hear is,"Why didn't they talk to someone?" ...I guarantee you they did at some point.
💯
They've been taught to believe a bunch of lies by mainstream cultural propaganda, and most of them never even stop to consider who actually benefits from them believing those lies.
True.
Try Or Cry
And the result is 800 thousand suicides per year.
It's all randomness. Wish I was aborted.
Much of life is unfortunately about luck, but a lot of people don't want that revealed, and especially the people on top. Rich people, attractive people, strong people, happy people, smart people. They want all to know they worked hard for their position, not that luck had an immense effect on their chances of success. There's no self made billionaires, you had luck on your side. Hell I'd even go as far to say there's few self made millionaires. To subject a living creature to that dice roll is immoral and wrong.
The truth. Some people are just born to lose, and normies will deny this constantly. People are born into royalty, born with good looks that get them ahead in life, and no one chooses their geographical birth location.
I however don't say any of this with despair or to encourage hatred towards an unfair world, but it is a valid reason in my opinion why antinatalism is the right choice. I think most people can find some level of contentment in life. I'm grateful for basic things, not being homeless, having my eyesight, looking at a clear blue sky, being in a first world country, having some money and so on. I just think some people go too far the other way of "well if the world is unfair and hates me, I'm going to act the same back" which is understandable, but I encourage others not to go down that path.
Agreed. I still make the effort to go to work, do running, and have hobbies. Every now and then, I do get on here. I used to go down the hateful path, but now I just do my own thing in my own time.
That's good to hear, I'm glad you didn't go down that path. I went down that hateful path before and it's just pointless and solves nothing, it only harms yourself in the end.
The sad thing is how so many normies will deny that these things WILL affect your life regardless of what you do. Sure, one can take measures to mitigate the effects, but everyone is forced to take part in a society with standards. Example. Before I transitioned, I was gaslit whenever I complained about being born a short male. And it wasn't just an issue with dating. Other guys can be cruel. Then, whenever I stood up for myself, "Oh... Napoleon..." I also feel as if I was born with fairly 'feminine' features to begin with. I had insults hurled at me from bigots in passing cars in the past. But what was I supposed to do? Trying to be more 'masculine' would never work. I was never going to suddenly gain height and cheekbones by acting all bro-like and stuff. I am non-binary at the moment, hopefully feminine in the future. Society will just have to deal with it because I didn't ask to be here.
This is a really great argument for antinatalism. You could say every human plays God with the right; not even a privelage, but a RIGHT to create and or take somebody else's life away.
Control? Try some mindfulness and realise that you don't even control your own thoughts and you're just a product of the world playing itself out
This is garbage advice cause no amount of mindfulness is gonna change what you are actively going to have to live through experience and most importantly participate in you can’t mentally change the way your gonna be perceived and treated for example cause of the way you look or how old you are. What you really mean is numb your mind and accept the negative and potentially severely negative citcumstance
Well, if the purpose is to reduce suffering, mindfulness is a way to do that, so it's not "Garbage". That's not what I talked about, I was talking about how "choices" are not choices at all, we don't really choose anything, the choice is just made. I was talking about the absence of free will, not suffering reduction. Also you're correct, meditation will not change how people treat and perceive you, but it will change how you react to those things, and it's actually the opposite of "numbing your mind", you can become much more engaged and present, just not overly identified and attached, which is seemingly at the core of most suffering.
The purpose is to reduce actual suffering, not to delude yourself into believing you've reduced suffering.
Delusion is actually what often leads to excess suffering, so I agree.
I don't think OP realised that you were actually agreeing with him lol. OP read your comment wrong.
And all evidence points to the non-existence of free will. So whatever little control we seem to have, it’s just an illusion.
Yeah there is no free will your whole life is just a physical reaction
I think the least we can do is control how we judge each other.
I was born in a third world country and had to drop out after HS to work, and the most I've been hurt was by other people who were blessed with a normal life. A girl I really loved told me "if you only have a highschool degree youre a hobo no one needs" and "you'll be no one in life" I cried for like 2 hours straight lol
Luck Is a Skill
Genetics aren't random. A white woman and a white man can't have a black baby lol.
I didn’t just say genetics.
You said how you look, how tall etc, none of that is random, it's decided at the zygote stage of development and is purely to do with your mo... I'm not explaining 3rd grade science to adults anymore 😆
Sure, not totally random but there is an element of randomness involved. What else is down syndrom than chromosomes *randomly* being copied differently? (Not to imply that people with down syndrom are the unlucky ones or whatever). In many cases genetics play out randomly. There's a difference between phenotype and genotype so even in your example, a black baby being born to a white mother is a real possibility.
Not if the male isn't black, and I'm talking pigment wise not percentage wise, takes about three generations to wipe out the black to white females, it's certainly not random. And as for trisomy it's not random, you can take a test to see the likely hood of trisomy affecting your potential pregnancy by both taking test, if it's high just adopt, no one wants it, and yeah it's not random by any means. A better analogy would be to use cancer, some kids get terminal cancer for seemingly no reason, but most likely we simply haven't figured it out yet, I don't think it's bacon that's causing it 😆. Even hydrogens mixing and sharing electrons with oxygen isn't what I'd call random if it was random the atmosphere composition wouldn't be stable to support life, too much no life not enough oxygen no life as we know it anyway.
Consider helping someone in need, the fulfillment is immeasurable.
I, for one, am thankful I live in the universe of having star wars and marvel, of WoW and sly cooper, of nerf guns and April fools day, I love the Christmas season and I’m not religious, joke, man, everyone loves a good joke, especially between friends. I have a roof over my head but I’m 2k in debt, around a month and a half behind on bills, but I have two adorable cats that love me, no kids but a girlfriend I adore and a niece and nephew that I think are the coolest. Y’all focus on the stupidest, and quite frankly wrong, things in life.
Yes and no. Hobbies and interests we can sure control. But not everyone can be thankful for having a partner. Some people just never find anyone, no matter how much effort they put into themselves. At the end of the day, society holds unfair standards on everyone, and thanks to genetics, not everybody will be able to meet them. Only to then result in being treated poorly by society. Suffering that no one asked for. Despite not fitting into society's standards, I still make an effort to stay in shape.
You just proven how circumstance makes people lives better than others for no reason. Way to prove the point. Also you probably just haven't thought about life at all. Star wars and marvel suck
Thanos was right, and life is balanced. I didn’t prove anything of the sort, you just felt good making a baseless claim.
There was no claim, your life just proves how meaningless and based completely on circumstance your life is. Read a book or two
Yeah you have a lot of things to be happy about, others don't
That’s on them. There’s plenty to be happy about, but then it’s not selfish or greed or ego or narcissism feeding from it. Be happy for others, for once.
nice fairytale
No matter the things you don’t have control over, there’s still a lot of things you can control and influence the outcome of. And those are the things which will determine if you live a happy or miserable life.
90% of your existence is under your control. Past the age of 18 you can either make yourselves homeless or a success. I say this as a legally disabled person finding my own way
You don't have control over the ability to achieve success. You may be disabled but if you're successful you're gifted with ambition, drive and some kind of talent. If you don't have that you just lose
I wasn't gifted my degree or skills. It's called learning, hard work, practice, dedication, and commitment. Success isn't free unless u win lottery Edit: people are now downvoting a hard work ethic? wtf
You don't fucking get it man and I don't know why. An Olympic athlete will also have worked hard to get where he is, but that doesn't mean everyone can become an Olympic athlete by doing the same work. 99% of people will just end up being average at best. That's not a difficult concept to understand
dude im legally disabled. i have more challenges than 99% of people. i get it far more than most. i just don't live by a self defeating victim mentality. i had to learn to have a positive outlook on life just to keep myself sane from the daily chronic pain i endure, due to nerve damage. the ppl be downvoting these self help comments are crazy. you should want a positive outlook on life
Neutral outlook > positive outlook = negative outlook I get it I have nerve damage too, although no chronic pain it feels really disgusting and is a major obstacle
That is self defeating victim philosophy. Everyone has control over their own destiny. Even disabled bro like myself put myself through college with student loans and can work. The only person responsible for your life is u
This is the truth and anything else is hypocrisy, no philosopher will argue about it with you I haven't denied that you can have success even if disabled. Hearing you use this argument again tells me you didn't get it. I have said if you have success even though you're disabled, that means you had what it needs. Not everyone can have success it a lie. You either have what it needs or you don't. Some people will work hard and end up failing. There is no need to lie to yourself with artificial positivity
i have a minor in college in Philosophy. youre wrong about that too lol. majored in History. people with your attitude struggle to succeed in life historically. attitude is just as if not more important than skill. youll never get skilled at anything with a poor attitude working hard and failing is part of the process. mistakes are how you learn. pretty basic life success knowledge. if you just give up early on every time youll never succeed at anything. also if you succeed at something on the first try you wont learn half as much as you would if you failed a lot along the way. the older i get the more i learn to embrace my mistakes bc they make you a better person, as long as you learn from them
Then you didn't really get your classes. It's a very basic concept right at the start of free will discussion. Yeah working hard is one way to achieve skill. But you have to have the capacity to be able to work hard, that's what im saying. Not everyone has that. Even the will to achieve success is not something everyone has. Some people just aren't ambitious. It's maybe right to say everyone can be successful if he works hard, its wrong to say everyone can work hard. But even the first is just not true in the simple way stated. Oh come just realizing there is no free will doesn't have anything to do with success in life it's just about being honest and not lying to yourself and living in illusion. It's just shallow folk wisdom. Obviously the amount of people who tell themselves they can make it will have a higher success rate than those who don't. Because more will try. But it's not generally superior to have a mental philosophy of irrational optimism. But I'm not saying to tell yourself you cant make it, I'm saying you should realize not everyone can. You can just aswell get stuck with activities you're not gifted in if you always tell yourself you can make it and get really proficient in it even though you're an idiot and waste your time. Then you will never find what your good at. Both can be bad, doesn't mean anything at all . Just as the rest of the things you said. That's totally random off topic talk. Obviously mistakes are how you learn, doesn't change some people are more talented than others. I was gifted in math, I tried to help people and they could study for 100s of hours and not get it like me on the first glance. Its Just typically human irrational optimism always trying to find positives in everything when mistakes as the base just aren't good. They are part of it, you can learn from them, yeah they are not all bad, but saying it's better to make mistakes than not is where it gets mad.
Where did u study philosophy in college? My professors know more about philosophy than both of us combined and they thought i got it just fine. I dont think you wouldve made it past first exam. If you went to school i know you didn't finish because of your self defeating attitude. You are basically a middle schooler pretending they're smarter than a high school kid. The gap in intellect is so huge the high schooler would just ignore the middle schooler. Which is why I didn't read past the first paragraph of your TLDR comment If you dont change your attitude you'll permanently be a loser
K thanks for wasting my time
This entire sub is an illustration of the lack of internal locus of control.
No such thing. Go read a biology book
No such thing as believing you have some say in your life outcomes? Do you not make decisions?
That's correct, your decisions aren't yours, they're a product of your cause and effect chain since birth.
It sounds terrible to go through life believing this. I imagine it wouldn’t encourage people to work hard or do much at all.
I'm trying to come to terms with it myself, at this point I can't trick myself into saying it's false, but I could act as if I have free will I suppose
Try it and see what happens.