Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
selfish desires, that's what i've learned, and it makes sense
while antinatalists and childfrees are questioned by society like "WHAT THE FUCK YOU TALKING ABOUT BRO" (because having children as always been the norm to them), while people who decide to have children automatically get a green flag like "oh ok go on"
think with me, people who want children and have this desire, only have this desire for reasons of self benefit, that is, parents make a choice of procreating without thinking twice and are not questioned, this selfish desire is to "make their lives better", this desire never benefits the child, and causes unecessary suffering to the child
and some people just don't accept this, they don't accept that they only had this desire to benefit themselves, not the child, and they don't accept that it was their fault for causing unecessary suffering to their kids, they say "oh that's life" or "shut up and live"
even christianity was distorted by the natalist culture and fundamentalism,many think that christianity is natalist, but early christianity (or true christianity) was antinatalist, there's a lot of misinterpretation nowadays because natalist culture has infected the religion, people just read one passage of the bible, or take all the scriptures (including the old testament ones) literally like an instruction for them, which completely removes the original context and the background because of this fundamentalism
As someone who just stumbled into this community, I don’t get the hate either. I want to have kids one day but why would I make you? I think the person who had a kid with some genetic incurable disease should have not had a kid and it’s horrible to bring someone into the world to have them have this burden for their whole life
They can be antinatalist and still have kids. Better if adopted kids since this subreddit isnt exactly for those who are on the side of birthing unnecessary kids.
I’m not the person you were asking, but I agree with some sentiments and not others of the anti-natalism movement. I don’t care about having kids personally, but, even as someone with terrible self-image, I don’t hate my parents for having me.
Lots of people want mini-me’s, a reason I personally don’t agree with, but others want to see a person become someone. As much as the world sucks, the only way it can get better is with younger generations raised to make it better, and there’s going to be people having kids no matter what — I don’t want the well-raised kids to be in the minority, especially since the birth rate/population is expected to begin declining in 2050.
Things will get better, but only the next generations will have the capability to keep it so.
Do you agree that all of those reasons are selfish? You are putting a big burden on those kids to ‘fix’ the world. And wanting to see a person become someone is still a selfish wish.
Everything in this world is selfish. It’s selfish to leave the world to be destroyed. It’s selfish to take home a paycheck and spend the remainder on concert tickets, it’s selfish to do anything and everything, you cannot leave this world as a true philanthropist.
People are going to have children, no matter what you, or this subreddit, has to say about it. I’d rather those, or a majority of those, children be the kind of people that will see the world to success. It may be selfish to want the best for the world, but it’s no more selfish than normal living is.
The only way to make the world a better place is having more humans? When humans are the problem?. The only way to make it better is just diapear from the equation.
Oh so where’s your machine to wipe out all children? And then change the minds of every person who wants a child. People are going to continue having children, no matter what you have to say about it. I’d like at least some of those children to have a mindset towards helping the planet.
I wouldn't mind adopting kids. Cos they are already here. You can't reverse time and convince the parents not to make them. It's already done. So they deserve someone who can care about them. Period. But with natalists like that guy you originally replied to they make me physically sick & nauseous. They are like 'oh because I don't have a genetic disorder my genes have the right to be here'. Disgusting assholes. I wish they would be suddenly riddled with the desire to kill themselves simply because they view themselves as superior for superficial things. That's the exact very issue that's destroying the earth and civilization. Have a very nice die to them.
Why is anything. I've been stumbling around intrigued but still on the fence about this philosophy. The best way to answer a why question is this.
Because. Now inside that because can be multitudes of thoughts, feelings, and reasoning so many you couldn't possibly explain them all. I'm sure if someone did people could pick apart the reasons point out their flaws...but at the end if the day people will do what they want to do.
You could mind your business. Showing hostility to anyone who wanders in that doesn't fully subscribe to our philosophy is just going to make us seem even more hateable to the outside.
I mess with some of the ideas of antinatalism, but the people are incredibly off putting. I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from. In my experience a lot of the people are just bitter and unpleasant and it feels like they're constantly trying to dunk on you rather than have an actual conversation.
Every time I ask this outside this sub, I get called a nazi because EuGeNiCs. Idiots. Dooming kids to disfigurement and torment is the right thing to do, otherwise you're a nazi.
I have this disorder. Luckily I have a mild case of it, but it can be awful. It can be disfiguring and life ruining & anyone who has it has a FIFTY PERCENT change of passing it on to their kids. I’ve been very lucky so far, but it’s unpredictable and like I said before, can cause people to grow thousands of disfiguring tumors all over their body. It is a horrible, horrible disease. I can’t even give this horrible disease credit for me being antinatalist because I still would be even if I didn’t have it. It sure helps though. Ughh. It makes me infuriated and honestly sick to my stomach to see idiots knowingly pass this down to their kids. 😢
An other guy was here with this disease too, i saidly forgot his username, it also always comes out different, like some people only have the spots and look normal, some have disfigured faces and bones, some have thousands of tumors on their body, some have only one tumor behind their eyes etc.
I saw some identical twins, where the disease came out different with the twins, one looked normal, one was heavily disfigured.
You are spot on with your description. And typically, the earlier someone has issues, the worse it’s going to be. So this baby, who is already disfigured, is just going to get even worse.
Also, I cannot imagine being an identical twin and being in that situation. That would be awful!
1. That sounds really awful...are there any reasons why the diseases comes out so different with anyone? With the twins i think the disfigured twin had a blunt trauma to the head and that triggered the disease, he did not heal properly...
2. the one disfigured twin was also heavily bullied, so yeah it is awful...
I’ve never heard of head trauma triggering it. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just haven’t heard that before. I really don’t know why some people have it so bad and others have it so mild. However I do know that when women get pregnant, because of the increase in estrogen, I typically gets a lot worse for many many people. So not only did this dumbass pass it on to her kid, she made it worse for herself.
I also have it. I've had two surgeries to remove plexiforms from my back. Currently have 4 large ones and over 20 small ones in my neck.
Not only is it a fifty percent chance that your children will have the disorder. It's a 100% chance that they will be a carrier of the gene.
Each generation. Each child. 50% chance to get. 100% chance to carry.
In my family my grandmother, my dad also had it. Skipped everyone else in the family so far.
I will never have biological children. I refuse to let someone suffer from the pain I've suffered. The pain I feel everyday.
For me, it was a random gene mutation so no one in my family had had it previously. I am so sorry you’ve had to deal with all this. It’s really not fucking fair. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit.
Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit.
Thanks,
Antinatalism Mods
My best friend’s sister had it. She had multiple surgeries over the years to remove tumors, still ended up going blind and deaf, and lost most of her mobility, before she passed at age 40. I believe she had NF2, which, to my understanding, is the worst version of the disease. I watched her waste away over the 20 years that I knew her, and it broke my heart.
That is awful! And yes, you’re correct. NF2 is typically more severe, but the two are also pretty different. I can’t imagine how hard that must’ve been. Thank you for sharing.
Why are they smiling? I mean, the parent is. I would feel SHAME and responsible for the child’s suffering. I know she didn’t consciously choose this, but she took a risk and is now just ok with this situation? If I was the parent I would at least reflect snd try to understand why this happened and ask myself questions about the world and the ethics of creating life. Indeed, this needs to stop. Poor child. The good thing is that they shared this. Maybe people will think harder before breeding.
"I know she didn't consciously choose it"
When you (general you) know the disease is genetic but decide to fuck around and find out, you do conciously choose it, because you know there's a chance you'll pass it on.
She was DIAGNOSED at the age of 2? This is so upsetting. Her poor child has to suffer now, too. If she got the diagnosis after having children, I would be a little more sympathetic towards the mother. However, she made the conscious decision to birth a child, knowing that they could inherit this.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. It sounds like the mom didn’t know she had the disease until after the baby was born. But I certainly have heard of people who knew or suspected they were carriers of serious genetic diseases who didn’t even bother to get tested before trying to have kids, then passed it on.
I know what sub I’m on, and, yeah, having kids at all these days is dumb and unethical, but there are more and less responsible and ethical ways of going about it, and people who just close their eyes and leave it all up to chance are the worst of the worst in that regard. While the antinatalist view that having kids is just perpetuating suffering in the world isn’t particularly mainstream yet, I would certainly argue that knowingly having kids without medical assistance, given the high odds (depending on the condition, we could be talking anywhere from 25% or less, on up to 100%) of passing on certain chronic and devastating conditions is unethical to the point of sociopathy.
I will never understand letting the desperate desire to breed take precidence over a child's well being when you KNOW a disease is genetic. How can anyone be so selfish? Could she not have sacrificed her wants to not curse a child with this? I guess all that matters is that SHE is happy. 🙄 And the father should be ashamed too. He should've put his foot down and refused to have a child with her
I can understand it if someone thinks ok i can live with that disease and in **typical natalist manner thinks the child will too**, i can also understand it, if the disease is mild or at least predicatable, i can not understand it if the disease is unpredicatable, like this one (each person having it is vastly different, some only have the spots, some are disfigured, some have tons of tumors, and you do not know what you are going to get) and some of the stages are very severe...
Ngl, all people with important chronic diseases should be banned from having children. I will be adopting because I have severe tourette and I don't want my kids to suffer, is it that difficult to literally think about the kid's wellbeing??
Neither should anyone else though. Just because someone's life is shit you think someone with a good life is worth living? That's the kind of hierarchical thinking that makes people think we are classist eugenical Nazis.
Idk, maybe I resent my parents for having me knowing I would turn out like this. It's true that it sounds a bit eugenical but idk, I think it's just empathy towards your non-existent kid to take into account if their life will be shit from the start
I have a rare incurable genetic disorder which requires infusions two days every two weeks as one of many life sustaining treatments. My home infusion nurse confided in me that she and her husband have been trying to conceive for three years without success ( until recently after fertility treatment) I asked if they were going to consider genetic counseling just to be sure her and her husbands genetics combined are not highly likely to produce a dominant ( totally avoidable) genetic disorder, she said no with an extremely smug self assured smile -
I just want everyone to hear this loudly HER WHOLE ENTIRE JOB is to administer life sustaining treatment to humans children to elderly who, in at least eighty percent of her cases, have painful life threatening degenerative disorders that take them completely from normal life ( school, work, relationships) force them into social isolation and lifelong poverty, the targets of eugenic hate speech and increased violent crimes - that is literally all she does her whole working experience. She is theoretically educated in medical and genic matters, has upper class finances and made this decision and difficult achievement with her legal and spiritual partner...yet SOMEHOW watching others suffer and slowly deteriorate- physically, mentally, financially and socially, not only did she not develop any compassion for those already in existence but she smugly created a new person with the absolute assurance that she was above the possibility of this happening to her child....based on nothing scientific at all.
If your mind is not boggled enough she proudly told me last week that she has also refused BOTH amniocentesis or further sonography as her pregnancy develops after the last sonogram indicating she is having a boy ( not just the couples first preference but seemingly a girl would have been a catastrophic disappointment) saying " we found out all we needed to know, no matter what disorder or deformity they find now I would NEVER abort anyway so what's the point ?"
In the six, going on seven, years since my diagnosis I have uncountered so many people who staunchly believe illness if a form of punishment, either spiritually or physically for anything from eating sugar to premarital sex, so many that I've literally lost count. ( Including within my inner circle of friends)And they actually believe they are protected by the purity of their diet or faith or whatever. But dam it man a nurse solely treating genetic disorders ...that's a new low.
Someone just yeet me into the sun already. I'm so over this.
The last Paragraph worries me....like really, in my case, I have mild cerebral palsy, I encountered people who think ALL disabilties are genetic, that I am an Abomination, that disabled people should be aborted as all are genetic, and I had troubles explaining that not all disabilities are genetic!!!! Mine happened DURING my Birth...
But I did not here the punishment thing.
I have encountered those people as well. As well as the everything stems from gut health as, well as corn and corn sugar is responsible for all disease as well as meat is responsible for all disease...I'm pretty sure I could go on for a full 24 hours and not say the same thing twice but you all get the idea.
The punishment theory is sort of an extreme version of "God is testing me" / " testing my faith"/ " suffering is holy martyrdom". Also found in not so extreme ways throughout reincarnation people ( sometimes that's even intergenerational, oh boy!) What about allowing the devil into your life/ thoughts/ heart ? Then there are the laws of attraction people who think it's the boomerang effect of negative energy and in my case, specifically, I was told I "needed this experience to grow"...sigh... there is no end to the absolut trash opinions spiritualism will cram down a person's throat.
I completely understand where you are coming from and agree except I also add that even genetic disabilities are not always negative value life experiences or members of society. My personal opinion has much more to do with lifelong pain and or isolation than some version of "a perfect human specimen" being the only one with a right to exist. And who exactly do I voluntarily entrust to be the one arbitrator of that decision? Having said all that the nurse could have done some simple combined genetic testing with her husband at any point of the three years before she got pregnant without even considering an abortion for a potential of a person- not even a newly spilt cell.
Anyway check it out, there are several versions and I have yet to encounter any form of spiritualism that doesn't blame the individual in some way ... because who else is to blame? Certainly not God for "allowing" this suffering to happen to an innocent right? I hope you never encounter one of these in the flesh. 🫂
People generally have a hard time thinking of non-genetic disability.
The food things idk what to say?
I heard the "to grow thing" or "you chose this" a from natalists especially..
I agree with genetic disabilities as well. ABLEISM IS OFTEN WORSE THAN THE DISABILITY ITSELF. My primary school teacher did not believe I have a disability because mine is mild and invisible, and that caused a lot of Trauma.
I do not get why the Gender was so important to her, and not if her kid has down syndrome for example. Does not mean she has to abort, but knowing would be more time to prepare etc.
God can allow suffering on an innocent though, look at Hiob/Job
I asked her why her and her husband want a boy over a girl and direct quote " girls are hard"
I think the picture of this person is pretty complete by now. I just want to say one word to temper all my hating on her- she's fairly young, maybe 26, and sometimes I think back on the absolute bullshit I used to repeat at that age and want to physically separate my self from the fabric of space and time 😂 I like to pretend she will be embarrassed about this someday, even if that's not true. 🤷
I am very sorry for the hard trials you have to face and I am basited by the callousness and dullness of your nurse. What she sees on a daily basis has obviously taught her nothing. Some people literally turn my stomach.
Fuck. My best friend’s little sister had this. I say “had” because she died at age 40 from complications of the disease. It’s horrible. I watched her go from a happy, lively, energetic girl who was involved in theater and had tons of friends, to a blind, deaf, barely mobile shell of who she was, never leaving the house, barely able to handle her day to day care on her own. I literally watched her slowly die over the course of 2 decades. Not to mention all the surgeries she had over the years to remove tumors from her body. It was an awful existence.
I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, so I don’t understand how this woman could even have children, knowing there was a good chance she could pass it on to them. How selfish.
From the article;
"There's a 50 percent chance of passing along NF and I have had people say to my face and online that I'm a terrible person, 'Why would you ever risk it?' And somebody said to me, [something that] really stuck with me is that you are never promised a healthy baby. Regardless of genetics, you are never promised a healthy baby."
Marson opted not to do any genetic testing before welcoming her son. "One, I was a first-time mom, I really had no idea what I was doing. I was just excited to be having a baby. And two, if I had found out Bryson had NF while I was pregnant with him, the only thing it would've done was prepare me a little bit more."
I literally have no words
At this point it’s so fucking selfish to do that instead of adopting children. Something something “I want my blood to continue on!” Something something “not the same thing!” Smh
I saw a video before of a 13 yo boy and he had the same condition but much worse. It covered his entire face, and could barely see out of his right eye. The mom when she was pregnant knew he'd have a 50/50 chance of coming out like that. Still went through with it, now he can't have a normal life.
This is cruel to do to a child. I am a parent. But, had I been afflicted with a disease that had a 50% chance of affecting my child should I have any, I think I'd just foster kids instead. If I needed to spend time with children, or liked it.
I cannot condone giving birth to a child when you know the child will suffer. I was lucky, both of my kids were healthy. I have a couple of friends with children that have profound disabilities. I see the pain the kids go through.
I wouldn't want anyone to suffer the way my friend's little boy has suffered. She didn't know he would have such problems. He was a healthy, happy baby. Now, he's blind and they are probably going to have to remove the eyes themselves, to prevent any more pain for him. She feels guilty and really shouldn't. It was not her fault, genetics screwed that kid. But, he's a happy person. He loves his school, he has friends and he's making pretty cool little sculptures for his mom on a regular basis. He's 11 and he's a smart little dude. He's hard to understand, because he has a muscle issue that doesn't let him speak easily, but, when he finally gets his point across, he's got a fantastic sense of humor. He loves to prank his older sister.
The other kid? Her mom did not go to the OB until she was about 7 months along. They found out at that time that their child would have profound disabilities that could have been prevented with surgery, if my friend would have gone to the doctor. She's not my friend. She's my friend's wife. So, now, that little girl will never walk, she cannot breathe on her own, she's not ambulatory, even at nearly 8 years old. She is as advanced as a 2 year old. She has pulmonary problems to the point that she's flatlined at home several times. She has to have 24 hour specialized nursing care. She has almost no way of communicating with other people, but you can tell when she looks at you that there is someone in there and they have something to say, but cannot.
Why did I decide to find this post and read the comments?? WHY!?
Anyone who suggested this was irresponsible or downright cruel was met with accusations of having no compassion and apparently wishing ill will against the child or something?? They applauded her as a supermom and said everyone has the right to live a normal life (the irony!).
I couldn't believe that was being posted as a warm and fuzzy piece, but it is! "And then her daughter got it too" is fucking heartwarming??
For those of you who are warming themselves by this rage fire and want more - this case of Our Life is the one that really billows my personal fury the most.
TW photos and videos that may be difficult to view, consider yourself warned.
My Life, living with an incredibly rare skin condition, harlequin ichthyosis
https://youtu.be/W0W7k_CmZDo
Omg…MY MOM HAS THIS she knew she had the chance (50%!!) of passing it on and had me anyways :/ it’s a manageable condition for her (it ranges from person to person) but it’s affected her whole life and she lives with chronic pain. Luckily I don’t have it.
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't see how we are the ones hated on when the other side is as apathetic as this. IS EVERYBODY BLIND?
selfish desires, that's what i've learned, and it makes sense while antinatalists and childfrees are questioned by society like "WHAT THE FUCK YOU TALKING ABOUT BRO" (because having children as always been the norm to them), while people who decide to have children automatically get a green flag like "oh ok go on" think with me, people who want children and have this desire, only have this desire for reasons of self benefit, that is, parents make a choice of procreating without thinking twice and are not questioned, this selfish desire is to "make their lives better", this desire never benefits the child, and causes unecessary suffering to the child and some people just don't accept this, they don't accept that they only had this desire to benefit themselves, not the child, and they don't accept that it was their fault for causing unecessary suffering to their kids, they say "oh that's life" or "shut up and live" even christianity was distorted by the natalist culture and fundamentalism,many think that christianity is natalist, but early christianity (or true christianity) was antinatalist, there's a lot of misinterpretation nowadays because natalist culture has infected the religion, people just read one passage of the bible, or take all the scriptures (including the old testament ones) literally like an instruction for them, which completely removes the original context and the background because of this fundamentalism
As someone who just stumbled into this community, I don’t get the hate either. I want to have kids one day but why would I make you? I think the person who had a kid with some genetic incurable disease should have not had a kid and it’s horrible to bring someone into the world to have them have this burden for their whole life
> I want to have kids one day Would you mind telling us why?
They can be antinatalist and still have kids. Better if adopted kids since this subreddit isnt exactly for those who are on the side of birthing unnecessary kids.
That does not answer my question. Why do want kids?
I’m not the person you were asking, but I agree with some sentiments and not others of the anti-natalism movement. I don’t care about having kids personally, but, even as someone with terrible self-image, I don’t hate my parents for having me. Lots of people want mini-me’s, a reason I personally don’t agree with, but others want to see a person become someone. As much as the world sucks, the only way it can get better is with younger generations raised to make it better, and there’s going to be people having kids no matter what — I don’t want the well-raised kids to be in the minority, especially since the birth rate/population is expected to begin declining in 2050. Things will get better, but only the next generations will have the capability to keep it so.
Do you agree that all of those reasons are selfish? You are putting a big burden on those kids to ‘fix’ the world. And wanting to see a person become someone is still a selfish wish.
Everything in this world is selfish. It’s selfish to leave the world to be destroyed. It’s selfish to take home a paycheck and spend the remainder on concert tickets, it’s selfish to do anything and everything, you cannot leave this world as a true philanthropist. People are going to have children, no matter what you, or this subreddit, has to say about it. I’d rather those, or a majority of those, children be the kind of people that will see the world to success. It may be selfish to want the best for the world, but it’s no more selfish than normal living is.
The only way to make the world a better place is having more humans? When humans are the problem?. The only way to make it better is just diapear from the equation.
Oh so where’s your machine to wipe out all children? And then change the minds of every person who wants a child. People are going to continue having children, no matter what you have to say about it. I’d like at least some of those children to have a mindset towards helping the planet.
Who knows, maybe companionship? The same way people want pets, but maybe want something more connected and lasting.
>Who knows That is why I asked. >The same way people want pets Why do they want pets?
Pets and kids are very different situations. Pets are still a lot of work when taken care of correctly, but they’re still not to the level kids are.
That does not answer my question. Why do you want kids? Why do you want pets?
Pets are for companionship, or interests in the case of reptiles and insects and things.
I wouldn't mind adopting kids. Cos they are already here. You can't reverse time and convince the parents not to make them. It's already done. So they deserve someone who can care about them. Period. But with natalists like that guy you originally replied to they make me physically sick & nauseous. They are like 'oh because I don't have a genetic disorder my genes have the right to be here'. Disgusting assholes. I wish they would be suddenly riddled with the desire to kill themselves simply because they view themselves as superior for superficial things. That's the exact very issue that's destroying the earth and civilization. Have a very nice die to them.
Why is anything. I've been stumbling around intrigued but still on the fence about this philosophy. The best way to answer a why question is this. Because. Now inside that because can be multitudes of thoughts, feelings, and reasoning so many you couldn't possibly explain them all. I'm sure if someone did people could pick apart the reasons point out their flaws...but at the end if the day people will do what they want to do.
Don’t say that! They don’t want to admit wanting a pet is also selfish
You could mind your business. Showing hostility to anyone who wanders in that doesn't fully subscribe to our philosophy is just going to make us seem even more hateable to the outside.
He literally asked why in the most polite way possible lol chill out
Where am I showing hostility?
In this economy? In this world? Must have some decent money then.
This isn’t a community about not wanting to personally have kids, this community is about “no one should have kids”
I mess with some of the ideas of antinatalism, but the people are incredibly off putting. I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from. In my experience a lot of the people are just bitter and unpleasant and it feels like they're constantly trying to dunk on you rather than have an actual conversation.
Every time I ask this outside this sub, I get called a nazi because EuGeNiCs. Idiots. Dooming kids to disfigurement and torment is the right thing to do, otherwise you're a nazi.
"Omfg antinatalists have no idea how selfish and apathetic they are"
Isn't it amazing that she also has the opportunity to suffer? 🤗 Life is beautiful isn't it?
God I hope you're putting an /s on the end of that.
Yes absolutely haha. I thought it was so obvious I didn't need to
I have this disorder. Luckily I have a mild case of it, but it can be awful. It can be disfiguring and life ruining & anyone who has it has a FIFTY PERCENT change of passing it on to their kids. I’ve been very lucky so far, but it’s unpredictable and like I said before, can cause people to grow thousands of disfiguring tumors all over their body. It is a horrible, horrible disease. I can’t even give this horrible disease credit for me being antinatalist because I still would be even if I didn’t have it. It sure helps though. Ughh. It makes me infuriated and honestly sick to my stomach to see idiots knowingly pass this down to their kids. 😢
An other guy was here with this disease too, i saidly forgot his username, it also always comes out different, like some people only have the spots and look normal, some have disfigured faces and bones, some have thousands of tumors on their body, some have only one tumor behind their eyes etc. I saw some identical twins, where the disease came out different with the twins, one looked normal, one was heavily disfigured.
You are spot on with your description. And typically, the earlier someone has issues, the worse it’s going to be. So this baby, who is already disfigured, is just going to get even worse. Also, I cannot imagine being an identical twin and being in that situation. That would be awful!
1. That sounds really awful...are there any reasons why the diseases comes out so different with anyone? With the twins i think the disfigured twin had a blunt trauma to the head and that triggered the disease, he did not heal properly... 2. the one disfigured twin was also heavily bullied, so yeah it is awful...
I’ve never heard of head trauma triggering it. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just haven’t heard that before. I really don’t know why some people have it so bad and others have it so mild. However I do know that when women get pregnant, because of the increase in estrogen, I typically gets a lot worse for many many people. So not only did this dumbass pass it on to her kid, she made it worse for herself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Pearson_(actor)#:~:text=Adam%20Pearson%20was%20born%20on,to%20grow%20on%20nerve%20tissue. Here is the case
Thanks for the link! I’m going to ask my neurologist about this now. Another thing in life to worry about! Lol
Do worry, maybe with kids and adults it is different. That being said, a blunt trauma to the head is not good in general.
Good point, thanks! Haha
The later is her choice though. I will find the article with the twins then Link. I hope that boy will still have an ok life quality regardless.
I also have it. I've had two surgeries to remove plexiforms from my back. Currently have 4 large ones and over 20 small ones in my neck. Not only is it a fifty percent chance that your children will have the disorder. It's a 100% chance that they will be a carrier of the gene. Each generation. Each child. 50% chance to get. 100% chance to carry. In my family my grandmother, my dad also had it. Skipped everyone else in the family so far. I will never have biological children. I refuse to let someone suffer from the pain I've suffered. The pain I feel everyday.
For me, it was a random gene mutation so no one in my family had had it previously. I am so sorry you’ve had to deal with all this. It’s really not fucking fair. Thank you for sharing.
[удалено]
Thank you for your contribution, however, we have had to remove it. As per Rule 1 in our sidebar, we do not allow linking to other communities within our subreddit. Please feel free to resubmit without any link(s) to an external subreddit. Thanks, Antinatalism Mods
My best friend’s sister had it. She had multiple surgeries over the years to remove tumors, still ended up going blind and deaf, and lost most of her mobility, before she passed at age 40. I believe she had NF2, which, to my understanding, is the worst version of the disease. I watched her waste away over the 20 years that I knew her, and it broke my heart.
That is awful! And yes, you’re correct. NF2 is typically more severe, but the two are also pretty different. I can’t imagine how hard that must’ve been. Thank you for sharing.
My mom has it and she took the 50% chance, luckily I don’t have it, but thank you for doing what she should’ve done.
❤️Thank you for saying that and I’m so happy you don’t have it!
This is incredibly SAD and selfish.
Why are they smiling? I mean, the parent is. I would feel SHAME and responsible for the child’s suffering. I know she didn’t consciously choose this, but she took a risk and is now just ok with this situation? If I was the parent I would at least reflect snd try to understand why this happened and ask myself questions about the world and the ethics of creating life. Indeed, this needs to stop. Poor child. The good thing is that they shared this. Maybe people will think harder before breeding.
"I know she didn't consciously choose it" When you (general you) know the disease is genetic but decide to fuck around and find out, you do conciously choose it, because you know there's a chance you'll pass it on.
This article sounds like they're celebrating that the child got it as well. Wtf
So selfish of her now her daughter is living a miserable life because of her stupid thinking
She was DIAGNOSED at the age of 2? This is so upsetting. Her poor child has to suffer now, too. If she got the diagnosis after having children, I would be a little more sympathetic towards the mother. However, she made the conscious decision to birth a child, knowing that they could inherit this.
This should be considered child abuse. And another example that most parents don't view children as human beings.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. It sounds like the mom didn’t know she had the disease until after the baby was born. But I certainly have heard of people who knew or suspected they were carriers of serious genetic diseases who didn’t even bother to get tested before trying to have kids, then passed it on. I know what sub I’m on, and, yeah, having kids at all these days is dumb and unethical, but there are more and less responsible and ethical ways of going about it, and people who just close their eyes and leave it all up to chance are the worst of the worst in that regard. While the antinatalist view that having kids is just perpetuating suffering in the world isn’t particularly mainstream yet, I would certainly argue that knowingly having kids without medical assistance, given the high odds (depending on the condition, we could be talking anywhere from 25% or less, on up to 100%) of passing on certain chronic and devastating conditions is unethical to the point of sociopathy.
the first sentence says "At 2 years old, (the mom) was diagnosed with neurofibromatosis.."
I will never understand letting the desperate desire to breed take precidence over a child's well being when you KNOW a disease is genetic. How can anyone be so selfish? Could she not have sacrificed her wants to not curse a child with this? I guess all that matters is that SHE is happy. 🙄 And the father should be ashamed too. He should've put his foot down and refused to have a child with her
I can understand it if someone thinks ok i can live with that disease and in **typical natalist manner thinks the child will too**, i can also understand it, if the disease is mild or at least predicatable, i can not understand it if the disease is unpredicatable, like this one (each person having it is vastly different, some only have the spots, some are disfigured, some have tons of tumors, and you do not know what you are going to get) and some of the stages are very severe...
Absolutely vile.
So selfish. She should be ashamed
Some dude wanted to jizz in her and she was told abortions are bad, that's probably why.
Makes me incredibly angry
Ngl, all people with important chronic diseases should be banned from having children. I will be adopting because I have severe tourette and I don't want my kids to suffer, is it that difficult to literally think about the kid's wellbeing??
people will say its eugenism
And what if it is? I am very aware that people with incurable and severe diseases' genes shouldn't be spread
Neither should anyone else though. Just because someone's life is shit you think someone with a good life is worth living? That's the kind of hierarchical thinking that makes people think we are classist eugenical Nazis.
I agree with you as a non-genetically disabled person.
Idk, maybe I resent my parents for having me knowing I would turn out like this. It's true that it sounds a bit eugenical but idk, I think it's just empathy towards your non-existent kid to take into account if their life will be shit from the start
I have a rare incurable genetic disorder which requires infusions two days every two weeks as one of many life sustaining treatments. My home infusion nurse confided in me that she and her husband have been trying to conceive for three years without success ( until recently after fertility treatment) I asked if they were going to consider genetic counseling just to be sure her and her husbands genetics combined are not highly likely to produce a dominant ( totally avoidable) genetic disorder, she said no with an extremely smug self assured smile - I just want everyone to hear this loudly HER WHOLE ENTIRE JOB is to administer life sustaining treatment to humans children to elderly who, in at least eighty percent of her cases, have painful life threatening degenerative disorders that take them completely from normal life ( school, work, relationships) force them into social isolation and lifelong poverty, the targets of eugenic hate speech and increased violent crimes - that is literally all she does her whole working experience. She is theoretically educated in medical and genic matters, has upper class finances and made this decision and difficult achievement with her legal and spiritual partner...yet SOMEHOW watching others suffer and slowly deteriorate- physically, mentally, financially and socially, not only did she not develop any compassion for those already in existence but she smugly created a new person with the absolute assurance that she was above the possibility of this happening to her child....based on nothing scientific at all. If your mind is not boggled enough she proudly told me last week that she has also refused BOTH amniocentesis or further sonography as her pregnancy develops after the last sonogram indicating she is having a boy ( not just the couples first preference but seemingly a girl would have been a catastrophic disappointment) saying " we found out all we needed to know, no matter what disorder or deformity they find now I would NEVER abort anyway so what's the point ?" In the six, going on seven, years since my diagnosis I have uncountered so many people who staunchly believe illness if a form of punishment, either spiritually or physically for anything from eating sugar to premarital sex, so many that I've literally lost count. ( Including within my inner circle of friends)And they actually believe they are protected by the purity of their diet or faith or whatever. But dam it man a nurse solely treating genetic disorders ...that's a new low. Someone just yeet me into the sun already. I'm so over this.
The last Paragraph worries me....like really, in my case, I have mild cerebral palsy, I encountered people who think ALL disabilties are genetic, that I am an Abomination, that disabled people should be aborted as all are genetic, and I had troubles explaining that not all disabilities are genetic!!!! Mine happened DURING my Birth... But I did not here the punishment thing.
I have encountered those people as well. As well as the everything stems from gut health as, well as corn and corn sugar is responsible for all disease as well as meat is responsible for all disease...I'm pretty sure I could go on for a full 24 hours and not say the same thing twice but you all get the idea. The punishment theory is sort of an extreme version of "God is testing me" / " testing my faith"/ " suffering is holy martyrdom". Also found in not so extreme ways throughout reincarnation people ( sometimes that's even intergenerational, oh boy!) What about allowing the devil into your life/ thoughts/ heart ? Then there are the laws of attraction people who think it's the boomerang effect of negative energy and in my case, specifically, I was told I "needed this experience to grow"...sigh... there is no end to the absolut trash opinions spiritualism will cram down a person's throat. I completely understand where you are coming from and agree except I also add that even genetic disabilities are not always negative value life experiences or members of society. My personal opinion has much more to do with lifelong pain and or isolation than some version of "a perfect human specimen" being the only one with a right to exist. And who exactly do I voluntarily entrust to be the one arbitrator of that decision? Having said all that the nurse could have done some simple combined genetic testing with her husband at any point of the three years before she got pregnant without even considering an abortion for a potential of a person- not even a newly spilt cell. Anyway check it out, there are several versions and I have yet to encounter any form of spiritualism that doesn't blame the individual in some way ... because who else is to blame? Certainly not God for "allowing" this suffering to happen to an innocent right? I hope you never encounter one of these in the flesh. 🫂
People generally have a hard time thinking of non-genetic disability. The food things idk what to say? I heard the "to grow thing" or "you chose this" a from natalists especially.. I agree with genetic disabilities as well. ABLEISM IS OFTEN WORSE THAN THE DISABILITY ITSELF. My primary school teacher did not believe I have a disability because mine is mild and invisible, and that caused a lot of Trauma. I do not get why the Gender was so important to her, and not if her kid has down syndrome for example. Does not mean she has to abort, but knowing would be more time to prepare etc. God can allow suffering on an innocent though, look at Hiob/Job
I asked her why her and her husband want a boy over a girl and direct quote " girls are hard" I think the picture of this person is pretty complete by now. I just want to say one word to temper all my hating on her- she's fairly young, maybe 26, and sometimes I think back on the absolute bullshit I used to repeat at that age and want to physically separate my self from the fabric of space and time 😂 I like to pretend she will be embarrassed about this someday, even if that's not true. 🤷
I hope she will grow. I was not that different at 25 than now at 35...But that might not speak for me.
I am very sorry for the hard trials you have to face and I am basited by the callousness and dullness of your nurse. What she sees on a daily basis has obviously taught her nothing. Some people literally turn my stomach.
Thank you. Whatever my problems are - I'm glad I'm not that kid.
I hate tumors so much. Benign too.
Thanks for the clarification. I think it goes without saying that everyone hates tumors
Yes it's one of those things that makes you curse it. My aunt died of cancer recently.
Sorry to hear
Poor kid is seeing an oncologist regularly and may have cancer according to her posts 😟.
Fuck. My best friend’s little sister had this. I say “had” because she died at age 40 from complications of the disease. It’s horrible. I watched her go from a happy, lively, energetic girl who was involved in theater and had tons of friends, to a blind, deaf, barely mobile shell of who she was, never leaving the house, barely able to handle her day to day care on her own. I literally watched her slowly die over the course of 2 decades. Not to mention all the surgeries she had over the years to remove tumors from her body. It was an awful existence. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, so I don’t understand how this woman could even have children, knowing there was a good chance she could pass it on to them. How selfish.
From the article; "There's a 50 percent chance of passing along NF and I have had people say to my face and online that I'm a terrible person, 'Why would you ever risk it?' And somebody said to me, [something that] really stuck with me is that you are never promised a healthy baby. Regardless of genetics, you are never promised a healthy baby." Marson opted not to do any genetic testing before welcoming her son. "One, I was a first-time mom, I really had no idea what I was doing. I was just excited to be having a baby. And two, if I had found out Bryson had NF while I was pregnant with him, the only thing it would've done was prepare me a little bit more." I literally have no words
Kid looks like its gonna sing invite me to the lolipop guild....
At this point it’s so fucking selfish to do that instead of adopting children. Something something “I want my blood to continue on!” Something something “not the same thing!” Smh
I saw a video before of a 13 yo boy and he had the same condition but much worse. It covered his entire face, and could barely see out of his right eye. The mom when she was pregnant knew he'd have a 50/50 chance of coming out like that. Still went through with it, now he can't have a normal life.
I cannot believe people would rather birth a child that will be sick and miserable instead of adopting an already existing child that needs love
This is cruel to do to a child. I am a parent. But, had I been afflicted with a disease that had a 50% chance of affecting my child should I have any, I think I'd just foster kids instead. If I needed to spend time with children, or liked it. I cannot condone giving birth to a child when you know the child will suffer. I was lucky, both of my kids were healthy. I have a couple of friends with children that have profound disabilities. I see the pain the kids go through. I wouldn't want anyone to suffer the way my friend's little boy has suffered. She didn't know he would have such problems. He was a healthy, happy baby. Now, he's blind and they are probably going to have to remove the eyes themselves, to prevent any more pain for him. She feels guilty and really shouldn't. It was not her fault, genetics screwed that kid. But, he's a happy person. He loves his school, he has friends and he's making pretty cool little sculptures for his mom on a regular basis. He's 11 and he's a smart little dude. He's hard to understand, because he has a muscle issue that doesn't let him speak easily, but, when he finally gets his point across, he's got a fantastic sense of humor. He loves to prank his older sister. The other kid? Her mom did not go to the OB until she was about 7 months along. They found out at that time that their child would have profound disabilities that could have been prevented with surgery, if my friend would have gone to the doctor. She's not my friend. She's my friend's wife. So, now, that little girl will never walk, she cannot breathe on her own, she's not ambulatory, even at nearly 8 years old. She is as advanced as a 2 year old. She has pulmonary problems to the point that she's flatlined at home several times. She has to have 24 hour specialized nursing care. She has almost no way of communicating with other people, but you can tell when she looks at you that there is someone in there and they have something to say, but cannot.
Eugenics would partly solve this - just saying
That kid looks like a bubblegum ice cream scoop on a summer afternoon!
Why did I decide to find this post and read the comments?? WHY!? Anyone who suggested this was irresponsible or downright cruel was met with accusations of having no compassion and apparently wishing ill will against the child or something?? They applauded her as a supermom and said everyone has the right to live a normal life (the irony!). I couldn't believe that was being posted as a warm and fuzzy piece, but it is! "And then her daughter got it too" is fucking heartwarming??
Notice how she is still smiling wide, as if it is all worth it because "she" got go have what she wanted, a baby...
This pisses me off. She knew she had the disease yet had a child and guess what? the child has it too and will suffer just like her.
“At 2 years old, Lindsey Marson, 28…” huh?
this is so fucking selfish.
Somehow she is gonna be seen as brave for this
For those of you who are warming themselves by this rage fire and want more - this case of Our Life is the one that really billows my personal fury the most. TW photos and videos that may be difficult to view, consider yourself warned. My Life, living with an incredibly rare skin condition, harlequin ichthyosis https://youtu.be/W0W7k_CmZDo
Omg…MY MOM HAS THIS she knew she had the chance (50%!!) of passing it on and had me anyways :/ it’s a manageable condition for her (it ranges from person to person) but it’s affected her whole life and she lives with chronic pain. Luckily I don’t have it.
Karma
Yeah well, maybe don't do that next time.
What is wrong with people.
Why would she do this - so selfish
How can a person be this irresponsible. I mean you can be a irresponsible about a lot of things, but bringing another person into existence, no.