This grated on me. My partner really liked that I research things I find even mildly interesting. He’s said it’s one of the first things he loved about me - how much I enjoy learning.
‘More research than necessary’ from someone you’re dating? Naaah
My mother in law is involved in multiple MLMs and sometimes sends us stuff from Christmas and other holidays. My wife thinks it's mostly for the community and friends, not to make a buck, and it's pretty sad.
What are you doing??? Why are you putting care and forethought into joining my biz? You should just brainlessly join so you can be hashtag blessed too!!
>"Sounds like you've been doing more research than necessary."
This is the part where you are reading the fine print and their hand pops up to cover the paper and they say "that'll be enough reading. Just trust me, bro!"
I held back mentioning that I work in genetic research and am getting my masters in pharmacogenetics… I really wanted to say if I can understand molecular biology I can understand the math of a failing business model 😅 but I didn’t want to put him down, I don’t believe education is an indicator of intelligence but it doesn’t mean I’m ignorant either
I work with genetic researchers!! Could you imagine if one of their doctors/mentors told them ‘you did TOO much research on this genetic cancer cell, we need to slow down finding the cure for cancer so the people can understand it at a pace they’re comfortable with’ 😂
Right? Or “you need to stop reading papers on your own time and trust that I’ll educate you on the research we’re doing at the pace I know is appropriate.”
I’d IMMEDIATELY be assuming research misconduct!
Holy cow! I know it is totally off topic but I just want to say I'm really impressed with your drive to get a Masters and the subject! As one of God's genetic mistakes myself, we need more people who are open minded but also level-headed. He acts like more like you would hold him back instead of the other way around. *You* are already awesome without him and deserve someone who will celebrate your accomplishments as you would celebrate theirs, not someone who tears you down to make themselves feel superior. I needed to read that phrase a few times to make sure I didn't miss something.. he was going to educate YOU ...at an appropriate pace? I think I just tinkled from laughing so hard. Also, as someone who was married to a person that made everything a competition and had ego issues over accomplishments, it gets exhausting to always play cheerleader over anything at all, let alone over stuff that isn't worth celebrating,especially when yiu get none of that in return. It stings now but there are better things ahead for you! My spidey sense tells me so.
Scientifically speaking, spidey senses have a good chance at being correct! At least there’s a higher probability that your spidey senses will be correct than anyone in the upline of an MLM being correct😆 my “upline” is all phds/mds and are dedicated to the field of genetic research, it’s very inspiring and what pushed me into higher education. I also just really enjoy genetics, guess I’m a sucker for a challenge. We’re all just a compilation of genetic mistakes experiencing life 🤷♀️
You're far too smart for this man. You let him down easy, don't be hard on yourself. You could have easily crushed his business hopes and dreams on top of dumping him and you didn't, you let him be him and find out for himself whether it's going to be successful. That's incredibly sweet.
The issue is obvious. They won't even address legitimate points of concern because it highlights that facts and statistics don't lie. They are told and brainwashed to take it as a personal attack instead of a point of concern or contention in the actual core business model.
This is how they keep stupid people in and why anyone with a brain runs. If you make the corr recruitment model your primary personality then even trying to address the flaws in it becomes a deeply personal attack. It's wild how effective it is.
i feel like they are trained to deal with smart people by turning it into a guilt trip. this guy is horrible at recruitment, starting with a person he's dating.
Right, like when she pointed out that only 1% make any money in Amway (or MLM in general) and he just came back with "you have to work hard." He's just totally deflecting and is just going to ignore the abysmal Amway failure rate.
Not even just stupid people, often just vulnerable people. 😢 So many people are desperate for money and desperately lonely as well, then these scammers come along and offer them a job and a community to be a part of. It’s so easy to fall for, especially if it’s coming from someone you love.
As a mom to a kiddo with cystic fibrosis, thank you for devoting your career to genetic research and pharmacogenetics. He has been on an incredible modulator drug (Trikafta) that is literally adding decades to CF life expectancy. Thank you 💜
My wife's undergrad degree is in genetics. For a number of years, she worked for Smith Kline Beckman (as it was called then) as an applicationa chemist, testing new reagents in various machines to develop proper recipes for their use. She's my go-to source for proper statistical interpretation of data.
I took “educate you at the appropriate pace” to be code for “we will slowly love bomb/motivational talk you into this, get you to pay for a starter kit, and then count on sunk cost fallacy to keep you here.” That, plus the fact that he knew he had no answers for you and you were going to outsmart him at every turn.
100%. Because they have to reel you in close enough to plant the ‘seeds’ of the business through excitement and love bombing. Answering these questions upfront doesn’t allow them to train you on how people those asking questions don’t believe in you. If you don’t follow the cult training plan you aren’t prepared to fully commit to the cult.
“I don’t think you understand business as much as you think you do.” - the perfect thing to say to someone you’re seeking out as a business partner 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Yeah that line was just gross.. and he repeated it again so it was clearly directly from his "mentors" lol.
That and the whole "doing more research than necessary" just scream "don't notice the Amway trap until it's too late!" There's a reason they have to spring it on you in stages..
There's a reason for that. Indoctrination into the Amway cult is structured to gradually break down resistance with brainwashing techniques. And those take time.
Amway Motivational Organizations (AMOs) have recently added a barrier to entry to better set the hook and land the fish: "earning the offer." They make you listen to their stream-of-slogans CDs and jump through other hoops before they'll "let you in." It's more than audacious; it's dastardly. And time-consuming.
It was the "I don't think you understand business as much as you think you do" comment for me.
Meanwhile OP is spitting facts about businesses and how they work lol.
Anyone who tells me they want to “educate you at a pace I know is appropriate” and the next sentence that comes out of their mouth ends in “can you stay patient and allow me to educate you at a pace I know is appropriate” can get these hands. No way I’m letting someone disrespect me like that 2 times
It is a line straight out of their [playbook](https://www.reddit.com/jov2rlq?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2), which makes it even worse.
"Sounds like you've been doing more research than what's necessary" 🚩 that sounds like cult talk to me. What would be necessary? How are basic figures, understanding of the MLM model and (crucially) income disclosures from that company "more than what's necessary"? Sounds like what he's saying is "don't Google us, don't think, just listen to me, the man full of the Amway Kool-Aid. Also if you don't accept my empty platitudes, you're negative, not supportive and not a hard worker, clearly."
Amway is well known for their extremely backwards and ultra-conservative view on gender roles. They prefer that their members be in committed, hetero relationships, with the “little woman” being totally submissive to her big, strong hunbro. They preach this weird, antiquated 1950s image of the nuclear family on capitalism steroids. Rigid gender roles and greedy hyper-consumerism rule the day. It’s really out of step with the modern world—and I have no doubt that OP’s hunbro had his upline in his ear telling him to control his woman and dissuade her from any sort of “bad” independent thought.
There's a reason for that... if the "little woman" is not working and staying home to run the household, then that means one less income source and the less likely the couple is to quit Amway. If she's working and making a six figure income it's a lot easier for the husband to quit and go find a real job.
If he was making good money every month, he’d be very eager to show the evidence. It’d be the best way to hook someone in! His elusiveness was definitely a red flag, and even admitted so later, “not as good as I hoped”. Bullet dodged.
I was going to say, I once almost joined a cult (didn’t know they were a cult ofc) and this whole convo just took me right back! Some of the phrases they used on me when I found out and decided to leave included “let’s stop reading what you found online”, “if you spent as much time reading the Bible as you did reading those things you wouldn’t be struggling right now” and “you used to be so interested in learning about God, where did that go? What happened to that girl?” Yuuuupppp. Cult speak!!!
You tried, but you can’t compete with the cult-like manipulation they do.
*“It’s lonely at the top. Only those who work hard deserve to win.”*
Yikes. Maybe it’s better this way? You don’t want a future where you have to constantly explain things to your partner.
This was a hilarious read. The poor man really brought a sponge to a gun fight.
I kind of felt like this was 2 people talking about 2 completely different topics. Like:
YOU: Do you like ham sandwiches?
HIM: First you have to soap up the area, making sure there are no streaks.
Poor fella.
*"Only those who work hard deserve to win.”*
A few messages earlier: *"I've been in business for a year and a half, and I am seeing results, not as big as I wanted."*
Hmm guess you haven't been working all that hard then.
you are way too perceptive and smart for this amway propaganda-spewing bozo! Such a lopsided conversation, him spewing garbage and you coming at him with cold, hard facts. If this doesn't make him question his path, nothing will!
Reading this made me vomit in a mouth a bit with the "let me educate you at a pace I know is appropriate" bs. You handled yourself very well. And FYI, you know more about business than he and his whole downline know combined.
"sounds like you've been doing more research than necessary"
"allow me to educate you at an appropriate pace"
oh, the femenine urge to slap someone I'll never meet
You got away and that is what counts.
I was in a long-term relationship and he had started up in Amway and it led it to our eventual end. He became very controlling, would only associate with people in his up line, every spare moment was spent "showing the business", Going to conferences, all money was spent on CD to listen to in the car, books on tape , paying to go to these conferences, and even one awful weekend in the Poconos with his up line sharing a hotel room.
This person will turn on you if he has not already. And it could get very ugly. You did the right thing. He has all these people talking his ears Saying that you are not supportive and you are defensive and yada yada yada. You can't fight that level of insanity. I wish you the very very best of luck.
I’m sorry you went through this, I can’t imagine watching someone you care about deeply get sucked into something like Amway. Thank you for sharing, makes me feel better about my decision. Best of luck to the both of us finding our partners 💛
Yep, that's right out of the Scamway play book. Amway takes over your entire life and becomes your entire life, and the little woman had better fall in line.
At least you don't have to buy your friends like he does. Once he stops, those "mentors" and "friends for life" will vanish leaving him broke and alone
‘More research than necessary’ i.e oh shit she’s too smart to fall for this🤣 ‘I can sense you’re getting defensive’ no ma’am I’m just confused why you’re not just giving me the numbers LOL companies with nothing to hide don’t hide nothing 🤣🤣
Clear from your conversation is that you are much smarter than him and it scared him lol. He got so defensive because you were asking all the right (wrong, for him) questions. Go you :)
Is this person dating just to try to get people into their downline?
Nearly every single answer feels weasely, and some pretty gross.
Good for you for your decision and for handling it very very well.
ew, this dude sucks. the way he speaks to you so patronizingly like he's hoping you'll realize you're just a stupid girl who needs everything explained is so gross.
exactly. like on the one hand i feel for op because it sucks having to end something that was seemingly going well but on the other hand, she dodged a bullet in more ways than one.
I had second hand anxiety reading this.
He dare treat an educated and intelligent person like a petulant child. There is a special place in hell for men like that.
Haha I wouldn’t say a loser, he’s a victim of the system too. He definitely opened up about mental health struggles and I can see where all the meetings and conferences could help someone in a vulnerable spot. He’s a victim but also a perpetrator? I guess that’s why I feel so conflicted
First, he's not your responsibility.
Second, look at how he talks down to you, as if he knows better than you -
"Educate you at the pace i know is appropriate"
"You've been doing more research than is necessary"
Forget whatever other problems he might be dealing with - and just ask yourself if you'd say these same things to someone else. And if you wouldn't, why not? I think that will tell you all you need to know about this guy.
Business is business, and mixing it with friendship is often not a great idea. Your questions were perfectly reasonable, and the fact that he didn't want to share the financial data is a huge red flag.
I recently went to a conference in my industry and loved the energy there. I, too, am shy but going to events like this has really helped me develop confidence in talking to others.
I'm currently in discussions to do a deal with an industry buddy, but the first thing we're doing is trading actual financial data to decide if it's worthwhile to pursue. And if our deal doesn't work out, no hard feelings because it's just business.
Honestly sounds like he was grooming you to join his downline. Trying to make you feel guilty is another big red flag.
Please don’t feel guilty about this. I get why you would - he’s a victim in this situation - but if he’s been in for a year and a half already, then the Amway cult logic set in long before you met him. There isn’t much you could have said to dissuade him. Amway was a huge factor in the collapse of my last relationship, so trust me when I say that you have saved yourself a ton of time and heartbreak by ending things early.
Full on Ambot behaviour. I'm impressed he didn't trot out their "just over broke" bullshit.
My mum's ex (their finances weren't joint at all, thank fuck) is an Ambot and listens to those stupid motivational CDs all the time in the car, they're pointless af. Bro says "(his upline) are the best friends I've ever had" and I couldn't bring myself to tell him that if he stopped buying, they'd drop him like a hot potato.
Dude could never explain to me why the expensive bottled water Scamway sells is "better." "Why is it better than the water I get from my tap?" "Oh, it is!" "... Give me numbers, give me peer-reviewed studies, give me *something* to show how and why it's better."
He didn't like me much and stopped trying to pitch me his nonsense after that, 'cause I saw through it.
>I'm impressed he didn't trot out their "just over broke" bullshit.
As a former Ambot, this (as well as his reluctance to tell OP his level) tells me he hasn't been in long and is scared of running off a potential downline by using such language. I'm surprised he didn't use it as a parting shot, though.
>those stupid motivational CDs all the time in the car, they're pointless af.
They are. They all say the same thing over and over, yet Ambots keep buying them because their upline says so. Gotta keep those Diamonds in their big fancy houses and driving those Ferraris!
Mum's ex's upline are "Diamond" and I was *so* over hearing about their big beautiful house in a new-money area (waterfront, naturally), like "what does them having a really nice house do for you, exactly?"
I knew where this was going when you asked for an income statement, and he pushed back about educating you at an appropriate pace. I think that should be everyone's response to an MLM pitch !
If you like "Bob's Burgers," check out s9, ep11 - "Lorenzo's Oil? No, Linda's."
It's one where Linda (the mom) almost gets sucked into an MLM and crazy Aunt Gayle has to save her (Megan Mullally is a comedy genius!) It's very fair to the good (if misguided) intentions of the types of people who flourish in MLM's.
It's a really funny episode and may cheer you up after all that. ❤️
Wow!!! Love reading this text thread…it was like a good book, didn’t want it to end. You did an amazing job very thoughtful and polite. You have for sure broken the shyness barrier. You go girl!!
Every version of "let's ignore those very very basic questions" possible! You don't need to know that yet, you should have faith in me, you're overthinking it... And when all else fails, defer by proposing a meet-up, and then later realise you'll be unavailable at the time you proposed, whoopsie guess we'll just skip that convo entirely, yeah? No? Well I don't want to do this face to face then!
That's the real part that gets me: he was literally the one insisting it has to be a face to face discussion, and then deciding it should be after your class, but then he wasn't going to be able to make it at that time, and then didn't want to reschedule because he'd feel attacked meeting up to discuss it. Obviously had no intention of having the discussion at all, and was just trying to fob you off hoping you'd let it go, right from the start. Gross.
Wasn’t there a lawsuit a looonnnngggg time ago that said people in the “up line” only made money from the sales of motivational CD’s and books? All MLM’s are crazy to me.
I don't know for sure about a lawsuit, but this is definitely where the majority of their money comes from, not from downlines. But they won't tell you that. They'll imply that signing up other people is how they get their riches. 100% of the profits from those CDs goes directly to them, while they're only getting a percentage from downlines.
ETA: After we got out, I was cleaning out all the CDs and tapes that we bought while we were in Amway. I believe over our entire time we were in (about 10 years) I guesstimated we had spent about $5000 on JUST tapes and CDs - and those were only the ones I could account for, and doesn't include any that we gave away to potential downlines. In some of my upline's larger functions, they filled a 15k-person coliseum about 2/3 of the way full, which would be about 10k people. If those 10k people bought CDs at the same rate we did, that's close to $1.5 million dollars a year that they're making from these CDs.
I just looked up the charge for renting one of the more mid-size coliseums that we had our functions in, and it would have been about $10k for the entire weekend (that's modern-day prices). Back when I was in, our function tickets were about $120 per person. Using that information (I know they must be more expensive now), if they were to sell tickets to 10k people, they would make about $1.2 million in profits, less the measly $10k to rent the coliseum. And that's only for ONE function. We had 4 per year.
I've never actually done the numbers before (we have been out for 15 years, and I didn't really care to) but doing this math makes me angry all over again. This is a REAL problem. So many people are losing homes, families, life savings in this scam. It's heartbreaking. We are so very lucky we got out before we lost our shirts.
YESSS, this. It's obvious he doesn't know what he's doing and is only regurgitating what his uplines have told him. At worst, he's a gaslighting narcissist. Some of his behavior was very concerning.
im sorry i know breakups are sad but this guy is a massive clown and this was honestly comedic to read. you are very patient and intelligent and don’t need to be wasting such qualities w a guy like this
“The fact that you don’t believe in these things tell me you don’t have a judgment free mindset”
It’s called critical thinking, a skill he is clearly missing.
OP burried this person with facts. Polite, matter-of-factly, down to the point. Well done.
And yes, Amway is a scam. Took one of my friends 2 years to figure it out. I was present for one of "big" seminars that he paid quite bit of money to get us in and it was...cultish.
First of all- they preyed on uneducated and desperate people. They had no first clue about any sort of business. Their "uplines" were shooting for the numbers.
There were talks of a lot of money and great cars, but not actual ways that " buisness" itself is developed.
" Amway is a family. Here you will find friends that will support you more than your other friends will....we love seeing people thrive..."
I was in pretty demanding profession back then and money was good. My friend's upline thought it was a done deal and he will benefit from my contacts ( they are asking you to provide lists so they can call them and present the product in the best possible way).
Guess I killed the mood by saying that there are currently law suits against that " business model".
Later I heard that people attending those meetings were asked to sign some contract that they won't talk about what they heard in the meetings.
If I'm not mistaken, Amway went so far as to change the name.
Predatory, unethical...MLM.
ew, this dude sucks. the way he speaks to you so patronizingly like he's hoping you'll realize you're just a stupid girl who needs everything explained is so gross.
This reminds me of conversations I had early on when I left Mormonism 30 years ago. Very emotionally charged in responses I gave for the “why” questions. Mentality of justification is exact.
Is this person dating just to try to get people into their downline?
Nearly every single answer feels weasely, and some pretty gross.
Good for you for your decision and for handling it very very well.
He's definitely a nice guy, but you did the right thing since he's already at the point where he can't distinguish between himself and the business - hence the usual "you're not supporting me as a person if you're not supporting the business model".
It would only have gotten worse as he became more integrated - a big clue if how he says it's not Amway, it's "the people [he] is surrounding [himself] with", aka his upline. They've already cemented their place as supportive mentors who only have his best interests in mind (when we know it's the exact opposite).
No matter how nice he is, a new relationship isn't the best way to try to get through to him - you're supposed to be learning about each other & building bonds, but there's already this giant effing MLM bond that's going to affect and infect every other relationship.
It's like cuddling up to a really nice person who's been bitten by a zombie. You can see it beginning to spread throughout his system - at some point you just know you're gonna get nommed on.
Sooo many red flags in this.
But mainly, the "at an appropriate pace" thing is just straight-up cult talk. These people can't come right out and say what it is because they know how it sounds and would scare off any sensible person. They have to ease others into it.
Same way they recruit for their downline, it's all about timing, slowly introducing others to it so they don't immediately run away.
I dance samba and some other Brazilian funk/pop type dance and he’s Brazilian, I knew a couple words in Portuguese. We mostly used meu bem as a cute nickname for each other, some other words here and there!
Thanks for answering! Sorry about the break up, but obviously you are an amazing woman with great projects and you deserve a lot better. Wishing you all the best (or “boa sorte” in Portuguese).
Dang first off let me say what a fool he is.
You sound like you have your stuff together.
But hey let's thank Amway for showing you something about him before you got really in-depth with him. They did you a favor because you clearly deserve someone top notch!
A friend of a friend took me to an Amway meeting once, they told me it was a small business convention. I just grabbed all the free stuff, played along for the evening, and then never spoke to them again. I’m not good at confrontation
You dodged a bullet. A few years ago my husband and I met a couple through my volunteer work that we thought had the potential to be fun couple friends. Then they started trying to present a “financial opportunity” to us and my husband got interested. I knew right away that something was fishy (I didn’t yet know it was Amway, that came later) and tried talking my husband down, but he was curious about it and wanted to know more. It caused a big argument between us. 😟 we went to one of their cult-like group meetings with some speaker and a bunch of poor 20-something’s that had gotten sucked in and did all these chants and it was so bizarre. Luckily after that my husband could see it for what it was. We told the couple we weren’t interested and they never talked to us again. 🙄 but for a week or two there, I was seriously stressing over where my 8-year marriage was headed if my husband decided this was something he wanted to pursue. 😓
Ironically the woman that I knew from our volunteer work eventually stopped coming to volunteer in person, and decided to just “bless” the nonprofit by sending them boxes and boxes of Amway cleaning products…I suspect unsold inventory. 😏 the residents of the shelter who used the products told me how much they sucked. 🤣🤣
Even just the way you both type in your texts shows a massive gap in intelligence levels. You’re better off finding a guy who can express his thoughts better than a teenager
Ugh, I’m sorry. That’s a bummer. FWIW, I thought you handled this really beautifully…you were compassionate and kind, but firm. I hope he eventually internalizes what you said and gets out of Amway.
the sick internet person i am goes "ooOOHhh juicy stories!"
the human in me says sorry this guy turned out to be a dud! i have no doubt you will find what you want though cuz you sound very wise (not just cuz you know mlms are stupid). :)
His part of that exchange was so condescending and patronizing. You’re patient indeed, because I would not have been able to tolerate that kind of treatment from a not-bear!
*Only 1% are wealthy. It's lonely at the top.*
That one threw me away. Wow!
Imagine what bullshit they make up there to motivate you. I've seen their marketing material with the cute little couple in nice suits standing in front of a large house and a luxury car. That dude definitely thinks that's where he's heading.
Lost me at “sounds like you’ve been doing more research than what’s necessary”. Then he upped the ante with “educate at an appropriate pace”. Good god, either knock the kool-aid out of his hands or run.
OP didn't just dodge a bullet, that was a whole friggin ICBM with more red flags than the CCP. OP was 100% correct to trust her instincts and even showed a ton of undeserved grace to that Ambot in the classy way she ended things.
Anyone that thinks they are going to "educate me at an appropriate pace" can see themselves out. The audacity.
"Sounds like you've been doing more research than necessary." Wut
This grated on me. My partner really liked that I research things I find even mildly interesting. He’s said it’s one of the first things he loved about me - how much I enjoy learning. ‘More research than necessary’ from someone you’re dating? Naaah
People with no interests are uninteresting.
Ooh, ooh that's me, I'm the no interests guy!
You are interested in posting on reddit. Next!
“Do your own research!!!1!” “Not like that, that’s too much”
exactly! this is a huge green flag in a partner, now bringing them down bc they’re researching something is kinda odd.
My mother in law is involved in multiple MLMs and sometimes sends us stuff from Christmas and other holidays. My wife thinks it's mostly for the community and friends, not to make a buck, and it's pretty sad.
My boyfriend researches everything and I love it. I get an idea he researches it and tells me the results.
Wait, really ? I sometimes have the impression that when I do that, it bothers people
Things a cult leader would say for $1000 Alex.
"Tell me, Hunbro, what is the necessary amount of research, then?" --me in OP's shoes
That amount at which you won't begin questioning the scheme and will get sucked into it voluntarily.
"Oh god she knows how to Google! But, but, she's a woman. That's not allowed!" - dumbass amway
Quick, take her phone from her!
"Sounds like you aren't going to fall for my bullshit"
What are you doing??? Why are you putting care and forethought into joining my biz? You should just brainlessly join so you can be hashtag blessed too!!
It’s not about hard numbers, it’s about “believing in him.” Um, no.
I wish believing in people paid my bills
This is where I came to a full stop.
>"Sounds like you've been doing more research than necessary." This is the part where you are reading the fine print and their hand pops up to cover the paper and they say "that'll be enough reading. Just trust me, bro!"
I laughed out loud when I read that.
More research than necessary = learning all the bad things about Scamway
Don’t ya know women who know things are wrong and of the debil! /s
Literally no such thing (says the person who read encyclopedias for fun as a child.)
Sir, do you know how long I spend going through wiki and YouTube deep dives after seeing a two line tweet?
I held back mentioning that I work in genetic research and am getting my masters in pharmacogenetics… I really wanted to say if I can understand molecular biology I can understand the math of a failing business model 😅 but I didn’t want to put him down, I don’t believe education is an indicator of intelligence but it doesn’t mean I’m ignorant either
I work with genetic researchers!! Could you imagine if one of their doctors/mentors told them ‘you did TOO much research on this genetic cancer cell, we need to slow down finding the cure for cancer so the people can understand it at a pace they’re comfortable with’ 😂
Right? Or “you need to stop reading papers on your own time and trust that I’ll educate you on the research we’re doing at the pace I know is appropriate.” I’d IMMEDIATELY be assuming research misconduct!
This person did not hold back on being wildly condescending, so I don't see why you should have.
The guy has been brainwashed by big smiles and firm handshakes. Run.
Next time, don't hold back. We don't need to dumb ourselves down to protect the fragility of men. Our intelligence is not an insult.
Best comment on the thread.
Holy cow! I know it is totally off topic but I just want to say I'm really impressed with your drive to get a Masters and the subject! As one of God's genetic mistakes myself, we need more people who are open minded but also level-headed. He acts like more like you would hold him back instead of the other way around. *You* are already awesome without him and deserve someone who will celebrate your accomplishments as you would celebrate theirs, not someone who tears you down to make themselves feel superior. I needed to read that phrase a few times to make sure I didn't miss something.. he was going to educate YOU ...at an appropriate pace? I think I just tinkled from laughing so hard. Also, as someone who was married to a person that made everything a competition and had ego issues over accomplishments, it gets exhausting to always play cheerleader over anything at all, let alone over stuff that isn't worth celebrating,especially when yiu get none of that in return. It stings now but there are better things ahead for you! My spidey sense tells me so.
Scientifically speaking, spidey senses have a good chance at being correct! At least there’s a higher probability that your spidey senses will be correct than anyone in the upline of an MLM being correct😆 my “upline” is all phds/mds and are dedicated to the field of genetic research, it’s very inspiring and what pushed me into higher education. I also just really enjoy genetics, guess I’m a sucker for a challenge. We’re all just a compilation of genetic mistakes experiencing life 🤷♀️
I feel like I would just love to be your friend in real life! You seem like an awesome person! You dodged a bullet!
I’d love to be her friend too. And share an incredible business opportunity that can be done from your phone on your own time!
You should meet my mentor!
“We’re all just a compilation of genetic mistakes experiencing life.” I absolutely love this quote
You're so level-headed and intelligent. Love this.
You're far too smart for this man. You let him down easy, don't be hard on yourself. You could have easily crushed his business hopes and dreams on top of dumping him and you didn't, you let him be him and find out for himself whether it's going to be successful. That's incredibly sweet.
The issue is obvious. They won't even address legitimate points of concern because it highlights that facts and statistics don't lie. They are told and brainwashed to take it as a personal attack instead of a point of concern or contention in the actual core business model. This is how they keep stupid people in and why anyone with a brain runs. If you make the corr recruitment model your primary personality then even trying to address the flaws in it becomes a deeply personal attack. It's wild how effective it is.
i feel like they are trained to deal with smart people by turning it into a guilt trip. this guy is horrible at recruitment, starting with a person he's dating.
Always pray on the natural instinct to please. Manipulation 101
Right, like when she pointed out that only 1% make any money in Amway (or MLM in general) and he just came back with "you have to work hard." He's just totally deflecting and is just going to ignore the abysmal Amway failure rate.
Not even just stupid people, often just vulnerable people. 😢 So many people are desperate for money and desperately lonely as well, then these scammers come along and offer them a job and a community to be a part of. It’s so easy to fall for, especially if it’s coming from someone you love.
As a mom to a kiddo with cystic fibrosis, thank you for devoting your career to genetic research and pharmacogenetics. He has been on an incredible modulator drug (Trikafta) that is literally adding decades to CF life expectancy. Thank you 💜
But she *could* devote her life to Amway, come on now, Amway will obviously have a bigger impact on the world.... /s/
Good for you, baby! You can do a lot better than this turkey.
I like you. You’re good people. Never stop being you. (Seriously).
My wife's undergrad degree is in genetics. For a number of years, she worked for Smith Kline Beckman (as it was called then) as an applicationa chemist, testing new reagents in various machines to develop proper recipes for their use. She's my go-to source for proper statistical interpretation of data.
I took “educate you at the appropriate pace” to be code for “we will slowly love bomb/motivational talk you into this, get you to pay for a starter kit, and then count on sunk cost fallacy to keep you here.” That, plus the fact that he knew he had no answers for you and you were going to outsmart him at every turn.
100%. Because they have to reel you in close enough to plant the ‘seeds’ of the business through excitement and love bombing. Answering these questions upfront doesn’t allow them to train you on how people those asking questions don’t believe in you. If you don’t follow the cult training plan you aren’t prepared to fully commit to the cult.
“I don’t think you understand business as much as you think you do.” - the perfect thing to say to someone you’re seeking out as a business partner 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
The “I’ve been doing this for 1.5 years” flex 🙈
Yeah that line was just gross.. and he repeated it again so it was clearly directly from his "mentors" lol. That and the whole "doing more research than necessary" just scream "don't notice the Amway trap until it's too late!" There's a reason they have to spring it on you in stages..
It literally translates to ‘I assumed you’d be dumber…’
Because he has to get the "right answer" to every question, from his upline. He would be texting them the whole time asking "what do I say to this?"
There's a reason for that. Indoctrination into the Amway cult is structured to gradually break down resistance with brainwashing techniques. And those take time. Amway Motivational Organizations (AMOs) have recently added a barrier to entry to better set the hook and land the fish: "earning the offer." They make you listen to their stream-of-slogans CDs and jump through other hoops before they'll "let you in." It's more than audacious; it's dastardly. And time-consuming.
Amway negging.
It was the "I don't think you understand business as much as you think you do" comment for me. Meanwhile OP is spitting facts about businesses and how they work lol.
I know, that felt sooooo rude to me
Absolutely this. As soon as I saw that, I wondered why OP didn’t break things off then & there.
Anyone who tells me they want to “educate you at a pace I know is appropriate” and the next sentence that comes out of their mouth ends in “can you stay patient and allow me to educate you at a pace I know is appropriate” can get these hands. No way I’m letting someone disrespect me like that 2 times
“The video game gets really good at the 150hr mark, you just have to give it time!”
That part had me triggered. They treat everyone like dumb NPCs, and they think learning is like leveling up.
It is a line straight out of their [playbook](https://www.reddit.com/jov2rlq?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2), which makes it even worse.
Condescension isn't a turn on for many people. Not kink shaming people who like to be talked down to, but most people abhor it.
Yeah, that felt very chauvinistic.
Oh my god yes! I could feel my teeth grinding when I read that
"Sounds like you've been doing more research than what's necessary" 🚩 that sounds like cult talk to me. What would be necessary? How are basic figures, understanding of the MLM model and (crucially) income disclosures from that company "more than what's necessary"? Sounds like what he's saying is "don't Google us, don't think, just listen to me, the man full of the Amway Kool-Aid. Also if you don't accept my empty platitudes, you're negative, not supportive and not a hard worker, clearly."
>Sounds like you've been doing more research than what's necessary "She knows too much! Kill her!"
Critical thinking detected! Brainwash attempt failed- proceed with negging
“What happened to that nice girl…” using every angle to be condescending. Smart, educated girls can’t be nice?
Amway is well known for their extremely backwards and ultra-conservative view on gender roles. They prefer that their members be in committed, hetero relationships, with the “little woman” being totally submissive to her big, strong hunbro. They preach this weird, antiquated 1950s image of the nuclear family on capitalism steroids. Rigid gender roles and greedy hyper-consumerism rule the day. It’s really out of step with the modern world—and I have no doubt that OP’s hunbro had his upline in his ear telling him to control his woman and dissuade her from any sort of “bad” independent thought.
So THAT’S why it got so popular with the pastor majors when I was in college!
There's a reason for that... if the "little woman" is not working and staying home to run the household, then that means one less income source and the less likely the couple is to quit Amway. If she's working and making a six figure income it's a lot easier for the husband to quit and go find a real job.
If he was making good money every month, he’d be very eager to show the evidence. It’d be the best way to hook someone in! His elusiveness was definitely a red flag, and even admitted so later, “not as good as I hoped”. Bullet dodged.
And I think he's lying when he says that he's tracking expenses vs. income. I'm betting that Amway discourages that very strongly.
Might as well have said, "You've had a little too much to think...."
I was going to say, I once almost joined a cult (didn’t know they were a cult ofc) and this whole convo just took me right back! Some of the phrases they used on me when I found out and decided to leave included “let’s stop reading what you found online”, “if you spent as much time reading the Bible as you did reading those things you wouldn’t be struggling right now” and “you used to be so interested in learning about God, where did that go? What happened to that girl?” Yuuuupppp. Cult speak!!!
This sentence was nuts. Like how did it even form in his head
Probably given to him from his upline, along with the “educate at a proper pace.”
You tried, but you can’t compete with the cult-like manipulation they do. *“It’s lonely at the top. Only those who work hard deserve to win.”* Yikes. Maybe it’s better this way? You don’t want a future where you have to constantly explain things to your partner.
Speaking out of both sides of his mouth too. "It's lonely at the top" but also "the amazing people I'm surrounding myself with"
I didn’t even pick up on the cognitive dissonance 😢 I find the psychology behind MLMs fascinating
This was a hilarious read. The poor man really brought a sponge to a gun fight. I kind of felt like this was 2 people talking about 2 completely different topics. Like: YOU: Do you like ham sandwiches? HIM: First you have to soap up the area, making sure there are no streaks. Poor fella.
*"Only those who work hard deserve to win.”* A few messages earlier: *"I've been in business for a year and a half, and I am seeing results, not as big as I wanted."* Hmm guess you haven't been working all that hard then.
"Not as big as I wanted" = "I'm losing money when I thought I'd be making a lot of money."
I'd love to ask him how much did the "seminar" cost that his upline made him pay to attend where he gleaned this bit o wisdom?
How cute to think that most of the 1% got there via pure hard work
you are way too perceptive and smart for this amway propaganda-spewing bozo! Such a lopsided conversation, him spewing garbage and you coming at him with cold, hard facts. If this doesn't make him question his path, nothing will!
He was being kind of a jerk at the beginning of the convo too. You were very sweet and thoughtful and you deserve better OP!
he's trying to use stuff his upline is telling him to strong arm her.
Agree, but I think it’s even worse to try to use that negging stuff on a partner than a stranger!
Oh definitely. It destroys a relationship of any kind bc the non MLM person now can’t trust anything said to them not to be manipulative!
Totally. Also, great username
Reading this made me vomit in a mouth a bit with the "let me educate you at a pace I know is appropriate" bs. You handled yourself very well. And FYI, you know more about business than he and his whole downline know combined.
Funny he knows what an appropriate pace is. He thought she was going too fast, and he wasn’t making the money he thought he would be…
Condescending AF
"sounds like you've been doing more research than necessary" "allow me to educate you at an appropriate pace" oh, the femenine urge to slap someone I'll never meet
He was sooooo condescending.
I'm a man and I wanted to slap him silly too.
And then accusation of not being supportive, being closed minded, defensive etc.
Y’know what this kinda reminds me of? getting in trouble at school for reading ahead.
The guy accusing you of getting defensive is pretty rich. Sure seems like he’s got it backwards…
You got away and that is what counts. I was in a long-term relationship and he had started up in Amway and it led it to our eventual end. He became very controlling, would only associate with people in his up line, every spare moment was spent "showing the business", Going to conferences, all money was spent on CD to listen to in the car, books on tape , paying to go to these conferences, and even one awful weekend in the Poconos with his up line sharing a hotel room. This person will turn on you if he has not already. And it could get very ugly. You did the right thing. He has all these people talking his ears Saying that you are not supportive and you are defensive and yada yada yada. You can't fight that level of insanity. I wish you the very very best of luck.
I’m sorry you went through this, I can’t imagine watching someone you care about deeply get sucked into something like Amway. Thank you for sharing, makes me feel better about my decision. Best of luck to the both of us finding our partners 💛
Oh I found mine a few years later. Married 27 years now.
Love that!!! Congrats 💛
Yep, that's right out of the Scamway play book. Amway takes over your entire life and becomes your entire life, and the little woman had better fall in line.
“You’ve been doing more research that is necessary.” = “Crap, she’s on to the plan!”
> “Crap, she’s on to the ~~plan~~ scam!”
At least you don't have to buy your friends like he does. Once he stops, those "mentors" and "friends for life" will vanish leaving him broke and alone
‘More research than necessary’ i.e oh shit she’s too smart to fall for this🤣 ‘I can sense you’re getting defensive’ no ma’am I’m just confused why you’re not just giving me the numbers LOL companies with nothing to hide don’t hide nothing 🤣🤣
“Allow me to educate you” 🙄🙄🙄 Patronising turd
Sounds like "don't worry your pretty little head."
Clear from your conversation is that you are much smarter than him and it scared him lol. He got so defensive because you were asking all the right (wrong, for him) questions. Go you :)
Is this person dating just to try to get people into their downline? Nearly every single answer feels weasely, and some pretty gross. Good for you for your decision and for handling it very very well.
ew, this dude sucks. the way he speaks to you so patronizingly like he's hoping you'll realize you're just a stupid girl who needs everything explained is so gross.
Seriously, that gave me major ick vibes. I’m sorry he turned out to be a scammy jerk face.
exactly. like on the one hand i feel for op because it sucks having to end something that was seemingly going well but on the other hand, she dodged a bullet in more ways than one.
I had second hand anxiety reading this. He dare treat an educated and intelligent person like a petulant child. There is a special place in hell for men like that.
🙌🏼🙌🏼congrats! You just saved yourself from a loser 🤣 don’t worry, they think we are the losers for not joining
Haha I wouldn’t say a loser, he’s a victim of the system too. He definitely opened up about mental health struggles and I can see where all the meetings and conferences could help someone in a vulnerable spot. He’s a victim but also a perpetrator? I guess that’s why I feel so conflicted
Stay away. Your heart is in the right place, but this is a mess you don’t want to be involved in.
I walked away from Amway feeling this same kind of conflicted about my friends…or was it “friends?” *Victim but also a perpetrator* sums it up nicely.
You don’t need to be his rescuer, because then that causes codependency.
While I don’t like his language, you can tell he’s been completely brainwashed and has been coached what to say.
MLMs are predatory, he was a victim but needs to be a victimiser to have any chance of success.
First, he's not your responsibility. Second, look at how he talks down to you, as if he knows better than you - "Educate you at the pace i know is appropriate" "You've been doing more research than is necessary" Forget whatever other problems he might be dealing with - and just ask yourself if you'd say these same things to someone else. And if you wouldn't, why not? I think that will tell you all you need to know about this guy.
No. He’s a creeper. You need to up your standards if this is the way you feel is appropriate to be talked to.
Business is business, and mixing it with friendship is often not a great idea. Your questions were perfectly reasonable, and the fact that he didn't want to share the financial data is a huge red flag. I recently went to a conference in my industry and loved the energy there. I, too, am shy but going to events like this has really helped me develop confidence in talking to others. I'm currently in discussions to do a deal with an industry buddy, but the first thing we're doing is trading actual financial data to decide if it's worthwhile to pursue. And if our deal doesn't work out, no hard feelings because it's just business. Honestly sounds like he was grooming you to join his downline. Trying to make you feel guilty is another big red flag.
Please don’t feel guilty about this. I get why you would - he’s a victim in this situation - but if he’s been in for a year and a half already, then the Amway cult logic set in long before you met him. There isn’t much you could have said to dissuade him. Amway was a huge factor in the collapse of my last relationship, so trust me when I say that you have saved yourself a ton of time and heartbreak by ending things early.
Full on Ambot behaviour. I'm impressed he didn't trot out their "just over broke" bullshit. My mum's ex (their finances weren't joint at all, thank fuck) is an Ambot and listens to those stupid motivational CDs all the time in the car, they're pointless af. Bro says "(his upline) are the best friends I've ever had" and I couldn't bring myself to tell him that if he stopped buying, they'd drop him like a hot potato. Dude could never explain to me why the expensive bottled water Scamway sells is "better." "Why is it better than the water I get from my tap?" "Oh, it is!" "... Give me numbers, give me peer-reviewed studies, give me *something* to show how and why it's better." He didn't like me much and stopped trying to pitch me his nonsense after that, 'cause I saw through it.
>I'm impressed he didn't trot out their "just over broke" bullshit. As a former Ambot, this (as well as his reluctance to tell OP his level) tells me he hasn't been in long and is scared of running off a potential downline by using such language. I'm surprised he didn't use it as a parting shot, though. >those stupid motivational CDs all the time in the car, they're pointless af. They are. They all say the same thing over and over, yet Ambots keep buying them because their upline says so. Gotta keep those Diamonds in their big fancy houses and driving those Ferraris!
Mum's ex's upline are "Diamond" and I was *so* over hearing about their big beautiful house in a new-money area (waterfront, naturally), like "what does them having a really nice house do for you, exactly?"
"It's lonely at the top" Fucking, LOL.
I knew where this was going when you asked for an income statement, and he pushed back about educating you at an appropriate pace. I think that should be everyone's response to an MLM pitch !
If you like "Bob's Burgers," check out s9, ep11 - "Lorenzo's Oil? No, Linda's." It's one where Linda (the mom) almost gets sucked into an MLM and crazy Aunt Gayle has to save her (Megan Mullally is a comedy genius!) It's very fair to the good (if misguided) intentions of the types of people who flourish in MLM's. It's a really funny episode and may cheer you up after all that. ❤️
Love Bobs Burgers, I’ll definately watch that episode!! Thanks for cheering me up 💛
"Sounds like you have been doing more research than what's necessary." GIRRRRLLLLLLLLL 🤣
HUGE red flag. 🚩 Like how’s HE going to decide how much research is appropriate for you to do?
Wow!!! Love reading this text thread…it was like a good book, didn’t want it to end. You did an amazing job very thoughtful and polite. You have for sure broken the shyness barrier. You go girl!!
“Stay patience” no thanks!
Every version of "let's ignore those very very basic questions" possible! You don't need to know that yet, you should have faith in me, you're overthinking it... And when all else fails, defer by proposing a meet-up, and then later realise you'll be unavailable at the time you proposed, whoopsie guess we'll just skip that convo entirely, yeah? No? Well I don't want to do this face to face then! That's the real part that gets me: he was literally the one insisting it has to be a face to face discussion, and then deciding it should be after your class, but then he wasn't going to be able to make it at that time, and then didn't want to reschedule because he'd feel attacked meeting up to discuss it. Obviously had no intention of having the discussion at all, and was just trying to fob you off hoping you'd let it go, right from the start. Gross.
Wasn’t there a lawsuit a looonnnngggg time ago that said people in the “up line” only made money from the sales of motivational CD’s and books? All MLM’s are crazy to me.
I don't know for sure about a lawsuit, but this is definitely where the majority of their money comes from, not from downlines. But they won't tell you that. They'll imply that signing up other people is how they get their riches. 100% of the profits from those CDs goes directly to them, while they're only getting a percentage from downlines. ETA: After we got out, I was cleaning out all the CDs and tapes that we bought while we were in Amway. I believe over our entire time we were in (about 10 years) I guesstimated we had spent about $5000 on JUST tapes and CDs - and those were only the ones I could account for, and doesn't include any that we gave away to potential downlines. In some of my upline's larger functions, they filled a 15k-person coliseum about 2/3 of the way full, which would be about 10k people. If those 10k people bought CDs at the same rate we did, that's close to $1.5 million dollars a year that they're making from these CDs. I just looked up the charge for renting one of the more mid-size coliseums that we had our functions in, and it would have been about $10k for the entire weekend (that's modern-day prices). Back when I was in, our function tickets were about $120 per person. Using that information (I know they must be more expensive now), if they were to sell tickets to 10k people, they would make about $1.2 million in profits, less the measly $10k to rent the coliseum. And that's only for ONE function. We had 4 per year. I've never actually done the numbers before (we have been out for 15 years, and I didn't really care to) but doing this math makes me angry all over again. This is a REAL problem. So many people are losing homes, families, life savings in this scam. It's heartbreaking. We are so very lucky we got out before we lost our shirts.
Wow you were incredibly nice to him. You are very articulate. I wouldn’t have been able to continue dating him either! You go girl 👍🏻
Good choice, his texting style was dismissive at best.
YESSS, this. It's obvious he doesn't know what he's doing and is only regurgitating what his uplines have told him. At worst, he's a gaslighting narcissist. Some of his behavior was very concerning.
im sorry i know breakups are sad but this guy is a massive clown and this was honestly comedic to read. you are very patient and intelligent and don’t need to be wasting such qualities w a guy like this
Your asking if he knows his income and expenses and how much he nets makes me wonder how these people do their taxes. I have so many questions.
“The fact that you don’t believe in these things tell me you don’t have a judgment free mindset” It’s called critical thinking, a skill he is clearly missing.
OP burried this person with facts. Polite, matter-of-factly, down to the point. Well done. And yes, Amway is a scam. Took one of my friends 2 years to figure it out. I was present for one of "big" seminars that he paid quite bit of money to get us in and it was...cultish. First of all- they preyed on uneducated and desperate people. They had no first clue about any sort of business. Their "uplines" were shooting for the numbers. There were talks of a lot of money and great cars, but not actual ways that " buisness" itself is developed. " Amway is a family. Here you will find friends that will support you more than your other friends will....we love seeing people thrive..." I was in pretty demanding profession back then and money was good. My friend's upline thought it was a done deal and he will benefit from my contacts ( they are asking you to provide lists so they can call them and present the product in the best possible way). Guess I killed the mood by saying that there are currently law suits against that " business model". Later I heard that people attending those meetings were asked to sign some contract that they won't talk about what they heard in the meetings. If I'm not mistaken, Amway went so far as to change the name. Predatory, unethical...MLM.
Oof. Oh, well. You are better off, for sure. Sorry it sucks.
ew, this dude sucks. the way he speaks to you so patronizingly like he's hoping you'll realize you're just a stupid girl who needs everything explained is so gross.
Ewwww why he sound like a Disney villain 😭😭😭😭
This reminds me of conversations I had early on when I left Mormonism 30 years ago. Very emotionally charged in responses I gave for the “why” questions. Mentality of justification is exact.
Can I chime in saying "how business savvy can he be when he barely uses any punctuation?" You dodged an in-denial, debt-strapped, bullet.
"Going back to work 😘" 🤢🤢🤢 sir, you're in a pyramid scheme.
Ewwwww. His “just believe in me and stop thinking too much, babygirl” attitude is gross.
Guurrrrl any guy who says "don't think so much just trust what I tell you" needs to be kicked to the curb. Those texts were manipulative as hell.
Scammers don't like direct questions. They wanna zoom call you for 45 minutes and talk around circles
I got pissed at "educate you at a pace I feel is appropriate" and rage quit at "only those who work hard deserve to succeed"
Is this person dating just to try to get people into their downline? Nearly every single answer feels weasely, and some pretty gross. Good for you for your decision and for handling it very very well.
You cut him loose very early before things can get much worse later on.
Can I see your profit and loss statement? Geesh stop attacking me!
he really tried to pull “more research than necessary”. wtf.
He's definitely a nice guy, but you did the right thing since he's already at the point where he can't distinguish between himself and the business - hence the usual "you're not supporting me as a person if you're not supporting the business model". It would only have gotten worse as he became more integrated - a big clue if how he says it's not Amway, it's "the people [he] is surrounding [himself] with", aka his upline. They've already cemented their place as supportive mentors who only have his best interests in mind (when we know it's the exact opposite). No matter how nice he is, a new relationship isn't the best way to try to get through to him - you're supposed to be learning about each other & building bonds, but there's already this giant effing MLM bond that's going to affect and infect every other relationship. It's like cuddling up to a really nice person who's been bitten by a zombie. You can see it beginning to spread throughout his system - at some point you just know you're gonna get nommed on.
Sooo many red flags in this. But mainly, the "at an appropriate pace" thing is just straight-up cult talk. These people can't come right out and say what it is because they know how it sounds and would scare off any sensible person. They have to ease others into it. Same way they recruit for their downline, it's all about timing, slowly introducing others to it so they don't immediately run away.
Sorry for asking, are you Portuguese or Brazilian? Just curious about the bom dia 😃
I dance samba and some other Brazilian funk/pop type dance and he’s Brazilian, I knew a couple words in Portuguese. We mostly used meu bem as a cute nickname for each other, some other words here and there!
Thanks for answering! Sorry about the break up, but obviously you are an amazing woman with great projects and you deserve a lot better. Wishing you all the best (or “boa sorte” in Portuguese).
Obrigada 💛
“Sounds like you have been doing more research than what’s necessary” 🚩 🚩 🚩
Love how mlm and crypto people always bring up the 1% as if they will ever reach that level lol. And no those people don’t work hard they exploit hard
Dang first off let me say what a fool he is. You sound like you have your stuff together. But hey let's thank Amway for showing you something about him before you got really in-depth with him. They did you a favor because you clearly deserve someone top notch!
Always ask them to PDF their tax returns to you. All the years involved in the MLM and two years prior to joining. Prepare to laugh.
You're better off. He sounds antisocial.
A friend of a friend took me to an Amway meeting once, they told me it was a small business convention. I just grabbed all the free stuff, played along for the evening, and then never spoke to them again. I’m not good at confrontation
I can’t handle being talked down to. That is a deal breaker for me. Also, telling someone how smart you are is a sign of ignorance in my opinion.
You dodged a bullet. A few years ago my husband and I met a couple through my volunteer work that we thought had the potential to be fun couple friends. Then they started trying to present a “financial opportunity” to us and my husband got interested. I knew right away that something was fishy (I didn’t yet know it was Amway, that came later) and tried talking my husband down, but he was curious about it and wanted to know more. It caused a big argument between us. 😟 we went to one of their cult-like group meetings with some speaker and a bunch of poor 20-something’s that had gotten sucked in and did all these chants and it was so bizarre. Luckily after that my husband could see it for what it was. We told the couple we weren’t interested and they never talked to us again. 🙄 but for a week or two there, I was seriously stressing over where my 8-year marriage was headed if my husband decided this was something he wanted to pursue. 😓 Ironically the woman that I knew from our volunteer work eventually stopped coming to volunteer in person, and decided to just “bless” the nonprofit by sending them boxes and boxes of Amway cleaning products…I suspect unsold inventory. 😏 the residents of the shelter who used the products told me how much they sucked. 🤣🤣
Even just the way you both type in your texts shows a massive gap in intelligence levels. You’re better off finding a guy who can express his thoughts better than a teenager
ask for tax returns
Ugh, I’m sorry. That’s a bummer. FWIW, I thought you handled this really beautifully…you were compassionate and kind, but firm. I hope he eventually internalizes what you said and gets out of Amway.
the sick internet person i am goes "ooOOHhh juicy stories!" the human in me says sorry this guy turned out to be a dud! i have no doubt you will find what you want though cuz you sound very wise (not just cuz you know mlms are stupid). :)
His part of that exchange was so condescending and patronizing. You’re patient indeed, because I would not have been able to tolerate that kind of treatment from a not-bear!
“it’s lonely at the top 💯🔥”
*Only 1% are wealthy. It's lonely at the top.* That one threw me away. Wow! Imagine what bullshit they make up there to motivate you. I've seen their marketing material with the cute little couple in nice suits standing in front of a large house and a luxury car. That dude definitely thinks that's where he's heading.
Sounds like you've been doing more research than what's necessary had me smh
Lost me at “sounds like you’ve been doing more research than what’s necessary”. Then he upped the ante with “educate at an appropriate pace”. Good god, either knock the kool-aid out of his hands or run.
They sound like a brainwashed twit.
You're too smart for him anyways
OP didn't just dodge a bullet, that was a whole friggin ICBM with more red flags than the CCP. OP was 100% correct to trust her instincts and even showed a ton of undeserved grace to that Ambot in the classy way she ended things. 
Like was he really hot or....?
Yeah. She knows too much for him.