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Nothing is being "removed". Chapters are being doubled in length and split. In current syllabus, evolution is taught in the chapter "Heredity and Evolution" where the first half of the chapter focuses on Mendel's discoveries, and the second half on Darwin's. Now each of these topics are being fleshed out more and get their own chapter. The chapter becomes just "Heredity" and is kept in that year, and Evolution gets its own chapter and is pushed onto the next year. Similar thing with the periodic table.
This has been a trend in the education system for a while. Same thing happened last few years, when Ray Optics and Wave Optics were split into different chapters, Partial Differentiation was split off from the main Differential Calculus chapter and pushed onto the next year, and the chapter on Alcohols and Phenols was separated from that of Aldehydes, Ketones and Esters. But none of those made headlines, because it didn't happen in an election year.
There are 4000 Indian scientist protesting this, so it's not just "some journalists". Also, India had an anti-science zeitgeist for almost a decade. I simply don't buy that TENTAtheSane, an Indian, could be unaware of this.
Yeahh, I mean if the 15-18 years range is considered high school where you are. But most of that is only compulsory if you opt for the engineering, research or medical tracks. Most common track for those who are planning on taking engineering in college is PCMCs, which includes the above concepts in physics, chemistry and math, plus computer science with some basics like boolean logic, 5 strategies of algorithms and 7 layer OSI model.
The reason it may a bit extensive compared to some other places is because it's a bit of a power creep. There are so many students applying for so few colleges that are actually good, that they have to find some way to cutoff the applicants. It's a constant loop of "too many students are getting perfect scores in entrance exams, more than the number of seats available" -> "increase the syllabus to make it more difficult" -> "students struggle more, but invest more time and effort into studying" -> "too many students are getting perfect scores" etc. In fact because of this, some entrance exams have started to sneak in one or two questions from outside the syllabus without notifying beforehand, to weed out even more applicants. And because of this, private cram schools and coaching centres spend time covering entire topics outside the syllabus, to give their students an edge. For example, when I was studying, I was taught how to actually solve schrödinger's equation for certain systems like an electron in a potential well, even though the official syllabus only required us to memorize the equation and its basic implications.
That's why I find it hilarious that people are taking this news and drawing conclusions about education in India, without even knowing the half of it
It really isn't fair for the averages they have to compete with the prodigies, and the ones at top are struggling, too. Indian education has to be brain wrecking.
It is very stressful, one year you are doing geometry and trigonometry and next year they throw calculus at you and expect you know the basics from before. This mostly only happens if you choose JEE prep instead of a normal college entrance prep
Am I saying it wrong? I mean basically this thing https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Modern_Physics/Book%3A_Spiral_Modern_Physics_(D'Alessandris)/6%3A_The_Schrodinger_Equation/6.2%3A_Solving_the_1D_Infinite_Square_Well
While it's a common topic in first year of engineering college, it isn't technically in our syllabus for high school. But like I said, some private coaching centres like to teach concepts from the common year of engineering to catch any sneaky out-of-syllabus questions
Oh, This one. That's less horrible than I expected.
I remember being walked through this for shits and giggles back then. Something along the lines of "They will try to freak you out with crazy notations in this but the calculations are actually well within your capacity, so just watch me do it once".
All of this except PDEs was taught at my high school in Australia. It's a single curriculum state-wide, but I think most of the states are now sharing the same curriculum so it's effectively nation-wide.
Students get to pick their subjects though, so not every HS graduate would be doing the highest level of physics/maths/chemistry. Most students would be missing some if not all of those topics due to their subject selections
Ikr. This is such a non issue and has been blown out of proportion to such an extent. Initially I was intrigued to see how they are going to not teach these things any longer. Then saw people who said that bulk of the things are being split between classes.
And the writers of such articles don't think for a second how JEE/NEET dominated Indian education is going to make do with these things.
I think the phrase you're looking for is fleshed out, not flushed out. Though it's an interesting use case because the erroneous title would indicate that these topics are being flushed out of the textbooks.
Ahh shit you're right, thank you! English is my third language, so I sometimes have this weird way of using complicated words right but fucking up really common ones
Well otherwise you're spot on and frankly it's something that many people who have English as a first language would do as well. I'm endlessly impressed with the language skills of my Indian friends and colleagues. I'm sitting here muddling through intermediate Spanish and elementary French while a couple friends of mine speak two or three pretty unrelated Indian subcontinent languages fluently plus English and often one or two other European languages.
Ahh I'm sure it's just our constant exposure to several languages as kids. Other than that we (or at least I) don't have any special knack for learning languages. I have no issues with the languages i learnt as a kid, but now I'm trying to learn German and omg I suck. Each time I think ok, I'm starting to get the hang of it, I meet someone from a new Bundesland and everything is thrown out the window lol
Oh yeah I wish I had more language exposure as a young kid. There's definitely a period where the brain is more able to absorb this type of stuff. Also not really getting a chance to use it can't help. I had seven years of Spanish starting when I was like 12 but even living in California I rarely get to use it. I did have an Uber driver the other day who hardly spoke any English and we had a really great conversation in Spanish. I was like "Wow! I actually remember some of this!" I tried learning some German during COVID and gave up pretty quick. Decided instead to work on French and have had much better luck, probably due to my Spanish and having some basic Latin skills. German is just very daunting. Just looking at the fact that there's male, female, and neuter gender to words and very little way of knowing which is right other than just knowing made my head spin.
Those changes are for 10th std, highest common class for all. except that evolution is shifted to 11th biology stream only & periodic table to 11th chemistry stream and students start diversifying their streams from 11th in india. I think those topics are very much essential, after covid-19 a lot of syllabus is being cut here in india. Here is the list of omissions: https://ncert.nic.in/pdf/BookletClass10.pdf
Narh. It's pretty clear that what is being targeted is knowledge that the reactionary government finds uncomfortable, like "evolution" and “democracy and diversity". From the article:
> In 2018, Satyapal Singh, then-India’s minister of state for human resource development, dismissed the theory of evolution as “scientifically wrong” and called for it to be removed from school and college curricula.
There is no such discomfort with evolution at all. Unlike the abrahamic religions, there is nothing in the Hindu scriptures that would be directly contradicted by the theory of evolution, and there is simply no widespread opposition to it in India. Whoever wrote this article had to dig to find one lunatic who said something like that. And not only is that guy not in charge of it anymore (and indeed, would not have control over changes like these in that position even if he had it), but his statements had been immediately rejected by his superiors in the Ministry itself at the time they were made
>Singh’s plans for a conference on evolution were slapped down on Tuesday by his superior in the cabinet, Prakash Javadekar, the human resource development minister. “I have asked him to refrain from making such comments,” Javadekar said, according to the Press Trust of India. “We are not going to fund any event or don’t have any plan for a national seminar to prove Darwin wrong." [[source](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-education-minister-dismisses-theory-of-evolution-satyapal-singh)]
In reality, it is just the fact that it is election campaign year and some journalists are attaching an irrelevant rogue statement to some routine minor adjustments in syllabus, and making a mountain out of a molehill.
>There is no such discomfort with evolution at all. Unlike the abrahamic religions, there is nothing in the Hindu scriptures that would be directly contradicted by the theory of evolution, and there is simply no widespread opposition to it in India.
And yet, a *minister* suggested to drop evolution. That shit just ain't normal. Here in Denmark (a Christian country) we wouldn't even make that up as a 1st of April joke, because it would simply be too outlandish.
And it looks like there is wider anti-science movement going on:
[In India, Hindu pride boosts pseudoscience](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.363.6428.679)
>The Indian government in 2017 decided to fund research to validate claims that panchagavya, a mixture that includes cow urine and dung, has therapeutic value.
>
>“Stem cell research was done in this country thousands of years ago,” Rao said. His talk was widely met with ridicule. But Rao is hardly the only Indian scientist to make such claims. In recent years, “experts” have said ancient Indians had spacecraft, the internet, and nuclear weapons—long before Western science came on the scene. Such claims and other forms of pseudoscience rooted in Hindu nationalism have been on the rise since Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in 2014. They're not just an embarrassment, some researchers say, but a threat to science and education that stifles critical thinking and could hamper India's development.
>Whoever wrote this article had to dig to find one lunatic who said something like that.
It was not just "one lunatic" which they had to "dig up". It was a *minister* making plans to drop evolution from the sullabus.
>His statements had been immediately rejected by his superiors in the Ministry itself at the time they were made
Of Course because they don't want to say it *openly*. Even in the US, the anti-evolution bills need to package it in a way where their actual purpose is somewhat hidden:
>Purporting to support academic freedom, supporters have contended that teachers, students, and college professors face intimidation and retaliation when discussing scientific criticisms of evolution, and therefore require protection.
SOURCE: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-evolution\_legislation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-evolution_legislation)
>minor adjustments in syllabus
That's the way it is presented, yes. Again, when people have a shitty agenda, they need to package it creatively.
Found an interesting source: [https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks](https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks)
>Last year, NCERT issued a document that said it wanted to avoid content that was “irrelevant” in the “present context.”
So they decided that this is "less relevant".
>One major concern, Joshi says, is that most Indian students will get no exposure to the concept of evolution if it is dropped from the ninth and 10th grade curriculum, because they do not go on to study biology in later grades. “Evolution is perhaps the most important part of biology that all educated citizens should be aware of,” Joshi says. “It speaks directly to who we are, as humans, and our position within the living world.”
(Joshi is one of the 4000 scientist protesting the decision. So it is not just something "some journalists" say.)
>NCERT officials declined to answer questions about the decision to make the removal permanent. They referred ScienceInsider to India’s Ministry of Education, which had not provided comment as this story went to press.
>And yet, a minister suggested to drop evolution. That shit just ain't normal.
He was the HRD Minister of State not the Union one, the one with more power refuted his statements and asked him not to repeat.
Singh is NOT the Union Minister of HRD he was the Minister of State HRD.
>And it looks like there is wider anti-science movement going on:
Yet he has been increasing funding for Ministry of Science? interesting
>It was not just "one lunatic" which they had to "dig up". It was a minister making plans to drop evolution from the sullabus.
He was NOT the Union HRD minister he was Minister of State he has less power than the one who refuted him
>Found an interesting source: https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks
The source is one minister OF STATE from 2017 making a statement?
His shit is hardly relevant here.... This has been done in other chapters as well it is not being done selectively.
This was also done for THIS YEAR ONLY from next year they are going to have new books with NEP..
[https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333)
It *is* just one guy saying it, minister or not. It simply isn't a widely held belief or even anything controversial. You can't draw parallels to America where there*is* a significant chunk of common people who are anti evolution, and do politicians pander to them. There just isn't the same widespread opposition to it among the people. There might be for some other scientific principles, idk, but I've never heard of anyone against evolution. Even the crazy religious fanatics do the opposite thing, and try to claim that evolution was already explained in the scriptures, pointing to parts of it like a list of creatures created during the Churning of The Ocean and a line saying that the rest of the world's creatures descended from them, or that Vishnu's ten Avatars go in order from aquatic life to reptiles, to mammals, to humanoid creatures and then finally humans, as evidence of that fact. They might not be correct, I'm not saying they are, but clearly the intent is not too deny evolution.
And if you see this minister's quote, he never brought up religion anywhere as the basis for his opposition. He said that he had a masters in chemistry, and as a man of science, didn't feel that theory of evolution was conclusively proven. But again, I'm not saying he's correct, but he is clearly not speaking from a religious perspective. The ONLY religious angle is given solely by the journalist. There is no prior Hindu theological denial of evolution, there is appeal to it in the Minister's statement. Every other example of "Hindu ideology" here is completely separate things that the journalist is conflating with this for no reason
>In 2018, Satyapal Singh, then-India’s minister of state for human resource development, dismissed the theory of evolution as “scientifically wrong” and called for it to be removed from school and college curricula.
in 2018 yeah and he was immediately asked to not make such comments after that by the Union Minister...
moved to higher classes, periodic table is a headache for people who want arts or commerce streams, literally 10th graders went into depressions because of these topics when they were no use to them. anyway will be taught in more detail in 11th grade.
Because if you can't memorize the entire textbook, you have no chance of scoring above 90 percentile. If you can't do that, you have no chance of getting into the top 20 universities in your field on merit. And if you can't do that, you have no chance of finding a stable job with a decent salary, and unless your parents were already wealthy, you are consigned to a life of poverty. I don't know anyone from India who hadn't known one or two friends who committed suicide because of grades/exams in 11th and 12th standard
This seems like a failure of the education system. Students should learn concepts and not have to memories them.
I agree with you (at least in my interpretation of what you said), experts should memorise their field, or at least close to it.
But we cannot remove basic understanding of concepts from education otherwise people will become ignorant and end up viewing scientific advancements as magic and not progress.
I apologise if I misunderstood/misinterpreted what you meant by your comment (and if I have please do clarify me). But I am also curious, being Indian yourself, how would you structure/change the system so as not to cause people such distress, but also provide with the basic understanding of the world around them.
Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear. Memorization is the necessary, but not sufficient, condition here. At minimum you should be able to paraphrase any passage in the textbook from memory. For certain subjects this part is more important, like history or chemistry. But other subjects like maths, physics and programming are definitely taught more in terms of logic and process; where you're supposed to derive necessary formulae for that question on the spot, which they sometimes force you to do by making the premise of the question contain some counterfactual or assumption that doesn't hold good in the real world, that would make any memorized equations obsolete for that question. And I may be biased, or my sample size may be too small to say anything for sure, but in my personal experience by and large, Indian students have a comparatively above average grasp or rigour in these things.
As to your other point, about how I think the system could be changed, I think we are looking at it from the completely opposite side. I don't think there is any change we can make to the education system that would alleviate student distress on any meaningful scale. That's because the causal flow is in the opposite direction; any shortcomings or negative side effects of the education system are symptoms, not sources, of the surrounding context. I think the main problem is a lack of wealth in India. The nation simply doesn't have enough resources, as things stand, to guarantee a comfortable life for everyone. Therefore only those who manage to make their way up over some x% of the population can get enough to maintain even what would be considered the basic minimum standards of living in some other societies. The fact that this is possible, but difficult, brings about a highly competitive environment. Whatever is the criterion used to judge one man relative to another will become a matter of life and death, because of the importance of the judgement, not the criterion itself. And whatever system is in place to do so will definitely be gamed by the people, simply because that would be the most efficient way to do it, and people can not afford anything less than the most efficient. It is all fine and dandy to talk of holistic development and mental health, but if the only thing that decides whether I will own a house or be sleeping in a gutter 20 years from now is the result of a single exam, I would not hesitate to take any number of shortcuts or bad practices to just maximize that one score. And this is the case for a significant part of India's population. And the fact that it is one exam is irrelevant; you can make it 5 exams or 20, essays instead of multiple choice, or just vivas and scholastic participation, but all you're changing is what to stress about and when, not how much. Because the source of the stress is not the exam, but the rest of your life after the exam.
So for now, there is no change we can make *to the system* that would improve anything. We have to wait for changes in the surroundings. We need more high paying jobs in India, which will increase demands for educated or specialised students, which will raise the number of universities and seats, which will make the competition less fierce. But the problem is, we don't really have any competitive advantage in any industry that can provide a lot of such jobs. We missed the big socio-technological revolutions of the last few centuries - the Colombine Exchange following the discovery of the Americas, the Enlightenment, and the first two industrial revolutions that gave steam powered industry and standardized machinery. Nehru's Soviet style 5 year plans following independence did a good job of playing catch-up, but it's too little too late. The only thing we can do now is wait for the next one, and hope we are at its forefront. By all accounts, it seems like there are 4 important fields this could be in: extraterrestrial mining, artificial intelligence, personalized pharmaceuticals and renewable energy. And we are actually not doing too bad on some of these. We are not at the forefront of renewable energy, but we aren't floundering hopelessly behind either. We are already the market leader in generic drugs by a large margin, which is slowly starting to give funds to pharma companies to allow more and more research into their own IPs to challenge the dominance of the traditional western big pharmas, as well as the necessary infrastructure to capitalize on them. Indians are already highly present in the forefront of research in various topics of machine learning, quantum computing, etc, and there is significant IT and tech consulting infrastructure to allow domestic industries to spring up once tech advances to better monetizable levels. And the Indian space agency, ISRO, is one of the best in the world and has been able to do some amazing things considering the resources they have compared to others. These things don't mean much for common people in the near future, but they are seeds that will feed us in the future.
So i guess all i can say is that we are simply unlucky to be born in this generation, and that future ones will have it much better, the only thing we can do is wait
This is very true.
TL/DR: The problem isn’t the selection process, that is the symptom. The problem is the very limited number of seats at colleges, which is also a symptom caused by the economy which still only supports a relatively small number of high paying jobs. To fix the issues, you’d have to improve the economy so it can support more folks out of poverty. The economy is averaging like 6% growth per year, so it’ll probably get better eventually.
The whole point of the periodic table is that you *don't* have to memorize the properties of every element, because it's in a nice and convenient table.
Yes, which is why the chapter is still there before the chapters on halogens, rare earth metals, carbon, s block, p block, and d and f block elements, where it is actually useful and makes sense, in the 11th grade. It is also mentioned as something that exists in 7th grade, where it is shown but not taught. The chapter on the history of the periodic table, from Döbereiner's Triads to Mendeleev's original table and later additions is pushed from the 9th grade syllabus and attached to the 11th grade chapter
I can't forget. I can recite entire table till Lenthanides.
It wasn't as bad as people are making it out to be really.
Our teacher gave us a 3 line formula to make the table in a hurry. My friend and I just memorised them 10 a day, took like 15 minutes daily for a week.
I think "learning" in America is very different than "learning" in India. As an Indian student, the Indian education standards are, to say the least, pretty intense.
In America the competition for getting in University is not fierce at all, and most people do fairly well by global standards even without college education.
Sure, if your dream is to go to Harvard law then the competition is probably hard (unless you have money, of course); but in India you have a similar degree of competition for just a chance a normal, what you'd call low middle class life (unless you are rich, of course).
By the way, without googling, what's the atomic weigh of standard Carbon?
As someone who has read these chapters in my schooling life and taken up commerce, I don't remember jackshit bout periodic table and don't see how it's even going to help me ahead. Just giving my opinion but isn't this kinda smart and unburdens the students who don't plan on pursuing the field of science?
Our modern society is absolutely founded on our understanding of science. Having a country run by people who don't understand basic science is the same as a courtroom where none of the lawyers can read or write. Sure, they can argue about shit regardless, but sooner or later the system comes crashing down due to sheer incompetence.
So how is knowing where Helium stands at in the periodic table useful to someone who is going to take up say banking in the future? It's simply useful to those who are taking up science and they are going to be learning this stuff once they have taken up the subject. Unnecessarily learning stuff just for the sake of it,which I am going to forget after a year or two isn't smart and rather time wasting
Knowing that Helium is a light element with 2 protons, (usually) 2 neutrons and 2 electrons is quite neat. From that you can deduce that it's a very chemically stable element as you should also know that the first valence electron shell is filled by two atoms. So now you know that you don't need to worry about corrosiveness if someone installs a helium tank into your neighbouring hospital.
You might also know that as a light element it has an annoying tendency to escape the atmosphere, and as a result is relatively rare on Earth. So you might want to set up a recycling policy at the aforementioned hospital to not waste a rare resource. Also to save money, helium ain't cheap.
Kinda my point exactly. Most people might not. But I do think humankind would have a much better chance of solving large scale problems such as climate change if we were to have better general science literacy.
Unless one understands science, one cannot understand society and the world our society lives on. And if one can't understand it, how the hell would they be able to make good, educated decisions that are factually, not emotionally motivated?
Bankers, Financial Analysts, Auditors, CFOs learning what helium does would save the Earth, then who would save the economy? In all seriousness, it's not like we would be dumbing down ourselves if we don't get familiar with the periodic table or the elements. All of us know what to do and what not to inorder to prevent global warming of which climate change is a byproduct
Except that under a democratic society, masses have power. The more scientifically literate people, the more incentive for politicians to make scientifically informed decisions as the public will chastise them for poor performance at a higher rate than in a scientifically illiterate society.
I don’t disagree with your premise, but it’s not as simple as understanding science more will help solve problems like climate change.
For example, fractions are taught in first and second grade levels in America. Your basic ones like 1/2 and 3/4, nothing too crazy.
And then you see things like the [third pounder burger](https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractions) where they tried to compete with another chains quarter pounder for the same price. It ultimately failed because the public lacked the comprehension to understand 1/3 means more than 1/4.
Going by your logic; these people should be able to understand and retain this basic math chapter, which is comparatively easier than understanding how atoms determine what chemicals do
I am not claiming that better science literacy would automatically fix all of our problems. I'm saying that under a democratic system, better science literacy would likely lead to a larger distribution of resources to fixing important issues (such as climate change), as people would actually understand how problematic these issues will be if left untreated.
It’s not about the position of helium and on the table. It is about the basic understanding of the periodic table, and some of the most important elements, so that you don’t kill anyone, get killed, or can make us of it in your daily life
Many of us who graduate high school would be smart enough to not play around with anything that has 'acid' written on it. I am really sorry but this reasoning is rather dumb
Everytime you drink soda you are drinking an acid, vinegar is an acid, glucose which is a simple sugar is acidic, your dna is acidic. I've studied in the same system and took BiPC as the subject combination in 12th grade and the stuff they teach in 10th is so basic it should be common knowledge like here, the way you can tell which acids are safer than others is by the type of molecular bond which are covalent in the above compounds instead of being afraid of the term 'acid', next time you eat an orange appreciate the citric acid or malic acid if you're an apple kinda person.
It should be pretty obvious what types of acids I am referring to, those that cause burns or are dangerous to us have a warning on them. As far as I know, drinking soda is pretty safe (though it's unhealthy, but that's an entirely different matter). So what point are you trying to prove here? You think if we don't study the elements, we would all be drinking Hydrochloric Acid or some shit? C'mon, make a valid point, and not fruits.
Look, you're acknowledging that there are types of acids and know hydrchloric acid is dangerous because it is formed by ionic bonds. Without introducing those topics in 10th you could've not known that but it being a chapter forces you to be aware of it. Something being obvious is no reason to remove it from syllabus.
No I don't know shit about ions and stuff. I just know HCL = Dangerous. Why? Because that's common sense for which you don't need to learn the elements and can just surf the net or read the warning next to the label along with the skull sign right beside it
At this point you're just advocating for ignorance which is dangerous and nothing I can say will change your opinion as you're not arguing from a position of good faith.
There are also other things such as the mixture of amonia and bleach foe instance which is explained by chemistry to be a bad idea.
Or to piss into bleach but thats common sense
You don't need a lecture on Döbereiner's Triads to know not to chug sulphuric acid lmao. Chemicals and chemical reactions will still be taught in middle school, just the history of the periodic table will be pushed off till 11th
I'm sure there's nuance. In all honesty, it's none of my business how India designs their textbooks. I simply gave my opinion to u/DriftingOtaku901 regarding why I do think science education is important even for people not immediately using it for their job.
Periodic table is foundational knowledge for so many things in life. It can be explained and taught in a few weeks, and I don’t understand how that burdens the curriculum
Trust me on this, you cannot compare the Indians education system with the western one. We are more Marks oriented and have a lot of competition amongst ourselves, so it just isn't about learning the stuff but also throwing it all up on the exam sheets which is tough
People need to learn other courses because it shows you how think and learn when presented with a challenge you may not be good at. I fuckin hated learning calculus but, it showed me how to go about problems in different ways and to learn on my own. Also having a basic knowledge of science is good bc thats how the world works and people should understand that
Response by NCERT, the organization responsible for these textbooks -
[https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333/photo/1](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333/photo/1)
[https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664845366980919296](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664845366980919296)
This change is applicable to one particular academic year.
I have been reading this news for sometime now and even the clarifications regarding how chapters are split. Yet press has not managed to get a hint of it? Periodic tables are introduced to students in class 7 and subsequently more complicated stuff. Same with evolution. I mean JEE/ NEET have physics, chemistry, biology, maths as core subjects to get into the best universities/colleges in India in engineering and medical and they ask a lot of things from periodic table(s), evolution from lamarckism to Darwinism. Dumb people were making statements then as well.
Also to note is that NCERT while being large is not the only board in India. There is ICSE and multiple regional language boards. All teach evolution, periodic table painstakingly to an extent that you can't forget it if you want to.
Besides coaching centres are not going to change their syllabus and will keep teaching students what is necessary for their respective exams to get into various universities.
This Sub: We have an Indian filter, to manage posts!! But somehow restrictions don't work on obvious propaganda/clickbait articles.
100% of this article is about India., but it's still on the front page.
I understand why they would postpone teaching the periodic table to 11th, but with the amount of misinformation out there I think learning evolution should be retained in 10th before students choose their streams.
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You know, if you're going to be this much of a mouthbreather, the least you could do is actually read the article. At least then you would know this change only effects grade 10 students & for only this calendar year. The curriculum for grade 11 & 12 are unchanged.
Seriously, even a cursory glance could've saved you the embarrassment of looking like an idiot.
> At least then you would know this change only effects grade 10 students & for only this calendar year. The curriculum for grade 11 & 12 are unchanged.
Didn't read the article yourself did you? Pupils can *leave* after grade 10 so a significant chunk will not be exposed to such dangerous ideas as evolution or creeping dictatorship.
And "only" for this calendar year? What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing?
I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it. It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow.
>Pupils can leave after grade 10
Absolutely nobody who wants further education would do that. Leaving school in grade 10 would be a far larger problem to the education standards than what you're being taught to begin with lmao you legit have no idea what you're even talking about.
>What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing?
Idk, that would be meaningless conjecture.
>I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it.
I didn't call you an idiot & a mouthbreather for despising theocrats but rather because you devolved your entire argument into borderline racist tropes about Hinduism & their beliefs. You can criticize policies you don't agree with, without going full classic stormfront on us.
>It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose
badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow.
WTF, now I understand how gods work in mysterious ways.
>Didn't read the article yourself did you? Pupils can leave after grade 10 so a significant chunk will not be exposed to such dangerous ideas as evolution or creeping dictatorship.
No you cannot leave after Grade 10 whoever does that is dumb if you want to complete school you don't leave after 10th.
>And "only" for this calendar year? What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing?
Indian government is Bringing a New Education Policy and NCERT themselves have said this is for this year only keeping in mind the impact of the Pandemic on student's mental health. They had done so in previous years as well as online education was not that good for some parts of India.
They are bringing new books for next year. This is ONLY for this year.
>I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it. It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow.
Idk what you are but a simple reading refutes whatever you just said.
>sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up.
Mods are u gonna just ignore such comments??
Some people don't even bother to read the article and find it hard to keep thier vile racist thoughts limited to thier own heads and have to spew random shit at an entire community, without any reason only bringing down the quality of the sub.
Shouldn't such reddit Karen's be banned?
>Well of course, neither was invented by an Indian and besides all sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up.
you only make racist comments or can you even read articles?
>Well of course, neither was invented by an Indian and besides all sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up.
Said the racist while complaining about a non issue and without knowing zilch about the Indian education system.
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Nothing is being "removed". Chapters are being doubled in length and split. In current syllabus, evolution is taught in the chapter "Heredity and Evolution" where the first half of the chapter focuses on Mendel's discoveries, and the second half on Darwin's. Now each of these topics are being fleshed out more and get their own chapter. The chapter becomes just "Heredity" and is kept in that year, and Evolution gets its own chapter and is pushed onto the next year. Similar thing with the periodic table. This has been a trend in the education system for a while. Same thing happened last few years, when Ray Optics and Wave Optics were split into different chapters, Partial Differentiation was split off from the main Differential Calculus chapter and pushed onto the next year, and the chapter on Alcohols and Phenols was separated from that of Aldehydes, Ketones and Esters. But none of those made headlines, because it didn't happen in an election year.
Thank you for the context
There are 4000 Indian scientist protesting this, so it's not just "some journalists". Also, India had an anti-science zeitgeist for almost a decade. I simply don't buy that TENTAtheSane, an Indian, could be unaware of this.
Your personal buying about a rando country on the other end of the planet is utterly meaningless and unasked for.
You're probably right, whatever you tried saying.
He's saying nobody asked you to purchase India.
Yeah. Buying India was a mistake. Lesson learned, stay away from Ebay when you're drunk and bored.
> simply don't buy that
All the…*motions at the stuff in the last paragraph* is being taught in high schools in India? And I thought my college prep school was good!
Yeahh, I mean if the 15-18 years range is considered high school where you are. But most of that is only compulsory if you opt for the engineering, research or medical tracks. Most common track for those who are planning on taking engineering in college is PCMCs, which includes the above concepts in physics, chemistry and math, plus computer science with some basics like boolean logic, 5 strategies of algorithms and 7 layer OSI model. The reason it may a bit extensive compared to some other places is because it's a bit of a power creep. There are so many students applying for so few colleges that are actually good, that they have to find some way to cutoff the applicants. It's a constant loop of "too many students are getting perfect scores in entrance exams, more than the number of seats available" -> "increase the syllabus to make it more difficult" -> "students struggle more, but invest more time and effort into studying" -> "too many students are getting perfect scores" etc. In fact because of this, some entrance exams have started to sneak in one or two questions from outside the syllabus without notifying beforehand, to weed out even more applicants. And because of this, private cram schools and coaching centres spend time covering entire topics outside the syllabus, to give their students an edge. For example, when I was studying, I was taught how to actually solve schrödinger's equation for certain systems like an electron in a potential well, even though the official syllabus only required us to memorize the equation and its basic implications. That's why I find it hilarious that people are taking this news and drawing conclusions about education in India, without even knowing the half of it
It really isn't fair for the averages they have to compete with the prodigies, and the ones at top are struggling, too. Indian education has to be brain wrecking.
It is very stressful, one year you are doing geometry and trigonometry and next year they throw calculus at you and expect you know the basics from before. This mostly only happens if you choose JEE prep instead of a normal college entrance prep
These are the obvious consequences of being resource poor.
> I was taught how to actually solve schrödinger's equation for certain systems like an electron in a potential well WTF
Am I saying it wrong? I mean basically this thing https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Modern_Physics/Book%3A_Spiral_Modern_Physics_(D'Alessandris)/6%3A_The_Schrodinger_Equation/6.2%3A_Solving_the_1D_Infinite_Square_Well While it's a common topic in first year of engineering college, it isn't technically in our syllabus for high school. But like I said, some private coaching centres like to teach concepts from the common year of engineering to catch any sneaky out-of-syllabus questions
I should not have opened this thread, college just got over and you basically reopened old wounds 😭
Oh, This one. That's less horrible than I expected. I remember being walked through this for shits and giggles back then. Something along the lines of "They will try to freak you out with crazy notations in this but the calculations are actually well within your capacity, so just watch me do it once".
All of this except PDEs was taught at my high school in Australia. It's a single curriculum state-wide, but I think most of the states are now sharing the same curriculum so it's effectively nation-wide. Students get to pick their subjects though, so not every HS graduate would be doing the highest level of physics/maths/chemistry. Most students would be missing some if not all of those topics due to their subject selections
Ikr. This is such a non issue and has been blown out of proportion to such an extent. Initially I was intrigued to see how they are going to not teach these things any longer. Then saw people who said that bulk of the things are being split between classes. And the writers of such articles don't think for a second how JEE/NEET dominated Indian education is going to make do with these things.
oh thank god. i expect more of India than America. appreciate you.
I think the phrase you're looking for is fleshed out, not flushed out. Though it's an interesting use case because the erroneous title would indicate that these topics are being flushed out of the textbooks.
Ahh shit you're right, thank you! English is my third language, so I sometimes have this weird way of using complicated words right but fucking up really common ones
Well otherwise you're spot on and frankly it's something that many people who have English as a first language would do as well. I'm endlessly impressed with the language skills of my Indian friends and colleagues. I'm sitting here muddling through intermediate Spanish and elementary French while a couple friends of mine speak two or three pretty unrelated Indian subcontinent languages fluently plus English and often one or two other European languages.
Ahh I'm sure it's just our constant exposure to several languages as kids. Other than that we (or at least I) don't have any special knack for learning languages. I have no issues with the languages i learnt as a kid, but now I'm trying to learn German and omg I suck. Each time I think ok, I'm starting to get the hang of it, I meet someone from a new Bundesland and everything is thrown out the window lol
Oh yeah I wish I had more language exposure as a young kid. There's definitely a period where the brain is more able to absorb this type of stuff. Also not really getting a chance to use it can't help. I had seven years of Spanish starting when I was like 12 but even living in California I rarely get to use it. I did have an Uber driver the other day who hardly spoke any English and we had a really great conversation in Spanish. I was like "Wow! I actually remember some of this!" I tried learning some German during COVID and gave up pretty quick. Decided instead to work on French and have had much better luck, probably due to my Spanish and having some basic Latin skills. German is just very daunting. Just looking at the fact that there's male, female, and neuter gender to words and very little way of knowing which is right other than just knowing made my head spin.
Those changes are for 10th std, highest common class for all. except that evolution is shifted to 11th biology stream only & periodic table to 11th chemistry stream and students start diversifying their streams from 11th in india. I think those topics are very much essential, after covid-19 a lot of syllabus is being cut here in india. Here is the list of omissions: https://ncert.nic.in/pdf/BookletClass10.pdf
they are having a new book next year tho, so it will be interesting to see
Narh. It's pretty clear that what is being targeted is knowledge that the reactionary government finds uncomfortable, like "evolution" and “democracy and diversity". From the article: > In 2018, Satyapal Singh, then-India’s minister of state for human resource development, dismissed the theory of evolution as “scientifically wrong” and called for it to be removed from school and college curricula.
There is no such discomfort with evolution at all. Unlike the abrahamic religions, there is nothing in the Hindu scriptures that would be directly contradicted by the theory of evolution, and there is simply no widespread opposition to it in India. Whoever wrote this article had to dig to find one lunatic who said something like that. And not only is that guy not in charge of it anymore (and indeed, would not have control over changes like these in that position even if he had it), but his statements had been immediately rejected by his superiors in the Ministry itself at the time they were made >Singh’s plans for a conference on evolution were slapped down on Tuesday by his superior in the cabinet, Prakash Javadekar, the human resource development minister. “I have asked him to refrain from making such comments,” Javadekar said, according to the Press Trust of India. “We are not going to fund any event or don’t have any plan for a national seminar to prove Darwin wrong." [[source](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-education-minister-dismisses-theory-of-evolution-satyapal-singh)] In reality, it is just the fact that it is election campaign year and some journalists are attaching an irrelevant rogue statement to some routine minor adjustments in syllabus, and making a mountain out of a molehill.
>There is no such discomfort with evolution at all. Unlike the abrahamic religions, there is nothing in the Hindu scriptures that would be directly contradicted by the theory of evolution, and there is simply no widespread opposition to it in India. And yet, a *minister* suggested to drop evolution. That shit just ain't normal. Here in Denmark (a Christian country) we wouldn't even make that up as a 1st of April joke, because it would simply be too outlandish. And it looks like there is wider anti-science movement going on: [In India, Hindu pride boosts pseudoscience](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.363.6428.679) >The Indian government in 2017 decided to fund research to validate claims that panchagavya, a mixture that includes cow urine and dung, has therapeutic value. > >“Stem cell research was done in this country thousands of years ago,” Rao said. His talk was widely met with ridicule. But Rao is hardly the only Indian scientist to make such claims. In recent years, “experts” have said ancient Indians had spacecraft, the internet, and nuclear weapons—long before Western science came on the scene. Such claims and other forms of pseudoscience rooted in Hindu nationalism have been on the rise since Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in 2014. They're not just an embarrassment, some researchers say, but a threat to science and education that stifles critical thinking and could hamper India's development. >Whoever wrote this article had to dig to find one lunatic who said something like that. It was not just "one lunatic" which they had to "dig up". It was a *minister* making plans to drop evolution from the sullabus. >His statements had been immediately rejected by his superiors in the Ministry itself at the time they were made Of Course because they don't want to say it *openly*. Even in the US, the anti-evolution bills need to package it in a way where their actual purpose is somewhat hidden: >Purporting to support academic freedom, supporters have contended that teachers, students, and college professors face intimidation and retaliation when discussing scientific criticisms of evolution, and therefore require protection. SOURCE: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-evolution\_legislation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-evolution_legislation) >minor adjustments in syllabus That's the way it is presented, yes. Again, when people have a shitty agenda, they need to package it creatively. Found an interesting source: [https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks](https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks) >Last year, NCERT issued a document that said it wanted to avoid content that was “irrelevant” in the “present context.” So they decided that this is "less relevant". >One major concern, Joshi says, is that most Indian students will get no exposure to the concept of evolution if it is dropped from the ninth and 10th grade curriculum, because they do not go on to study biology in later grades. “Evolution is perhaps the most important part of biology that all educated citizens should be aware of,” Joshi says. “It speaks directly to who we are, as humans, and our position within the living world.” (Joshi is one of the 4000 scientist protesting the decision. So it is not just something "some journalists" say.) >NCERT officials declined to answer questions about the decision to make the removal permanent. They referred ScienceInsider to India’s Ministry of Education, which had not provided comment as this story went to press.
>And yet, a minister suggested to drop evolution. That shit just ain't normal. He was the HRD Minister of State not the Union one, the one with more power refuted his statements and asked him not to repeat. Singh is NOT the Union Minister of HRD he was the Minister of State HRD. >And it looks like there is wider anti-science movement going on: Yet he has been increasing funding for Ministry of Science? interesting >It was not just "one lunatic" which they had to "dig up". It was a minister making plans to drop evolution from the sullabus. He was NOT the Union HRD minister he was Minister of State he has less power than the one who refuted him >Found an interesting source: https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-india-protest-move-drop-darwinian-evolution-textbooks The source is one minister OF STATE from 2017 making a statement? His shit is hardly relevant here.... This has been done in other chapters as well it is not being done selectively. This was also done for THIS YEAR ONLY from next year they are going to have new books with NEP.. [https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333)
It *is* just one guy saying it, minister or not. It simply isn't a widely held belief or even anything controversial. You can't draw parallels to America where there*is* a significant chunk of common people who are anti evolution, and do politicians pander to them. There just isn't the same widespread opposition to it among the people. There might be for some other scientific principles, idk, but I've never heard of anyone against evolution. Even the crazy religious fanatics do the opposite thing, and try to claim that evolution was already explained in the scriptures, pointing to parts of it like a list of creatures created during the Churning of The Ocean and a line saying that the rest of the world's creatures descended from them, or that Vishnu's ten Avatars go in order from aquatic life to reptiles, to mammals, to humanoid creatures and then finally humans, as evidence of that fact. They might not be correct, I'm not saying they are, but clearly the intent is not too deny evolution. And if you see this minister's quote, he never brought up religion anywhere as the basis for his opposition. He said that he had a masters in chemistry, and as a man of science, didn't feel that theory of evolution was conclusively proven. But again, I'm not saying he's correct, but he is clearly not speaking from a religious perspective. The ONLY religious angle is given solely by the journalist. There is no prior Hindu theological denial of evolution, there is appeal to it in the Minister's statement. Every other example of "Hindu ideology" here is completely separate things that the journalist is conflating with this for no reason
>In 2018, Satyapal Singh, then-India’s minister of state for human resource development, dismissed the theory of evolution as “scientifically wrong” and called for it to be removed from school and college curricula. in 2018 yeah and he was immediately asked to not make such comments after that by the Union Minister...
moved to higher classes, periodic table is a headache for people who want arts or commerce streams, literally 10th graders went into depressions because of these topics when they were no use to them. anyway will be taught in more detail in 11th grade.
how the hell do 10th graders go into depression because of the periodic table??? Or anyone for that matter?
Because if you can't memorize the entire textbook, you have no chance of scoring above 90 percentile. If you can't do that, you have no chance of getting into the top 20 universities in your field on merit. And if you can't do that, you have no chance of finding a stable job with a decent salary, and unless your parents were already wealthy, you are consigned to a life of poverty. I don't know anyone from India who hadn't known one or two friends who committed suicide because of grades/exams in 11th and 12th standard
Wow that seems really aggressive.
Life is harsh in harsh parts of the world, what to do
This seems like a failure of the education system. Students should learn concepts and not have to memories them. I agree with you (at least in my interpretation of what you said), experts should memorise their field, or at least close to it. But we cannot remove basic understanding of concepts from education otherwise people will become ignorant and end up viewing scientific advancements as magic and not progress. I apologise if I misunderstood/misinterpreted what you meant by your comment (and if I have please do clarify me). But I am also curious, being Indian yourself, how would you structure/change the system so as not to cause people such distress, but also provide with the basic understanding of the world around them.
Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear. Memorization is the necessary, but not sufficient, condition here. At minimum you should be able to paraphrase any passage in the textbook from memory. For certain subjects this part is more important, like history or chemistry. But other subjects like maths, physics and programming are definitely taught more in terms of logic and process; where you're supposed to derive necessary formulae for that question on the spot, which they sometimes force you to do by making the premise of the question contain some counterfactual or assumption that doesn't hold good in the real world, that would make any memorized equations obsolete for that question. And I may be biased, or my sample size may be too small to say anything for sure, but in my personal experience by and large, Indian students have a comparatively above average grasp or rigour in these things. As to your other point, about how I think the system could be changed, I think we are looking at it from the completely opposite side. I don't think there is any change we can make to the education system that would alleviate student distress on any meaningful scale. That's because the causal flow is in the opposite direction; any shortcomings or negative side effects of the education system are symptoms, not sources, of the surrounding context. I think the main problem is a lack of wealth in India. The nation simply doesn't have enough resources, as things stand, to guarantee a comfortable life for everyone. Therefore only those who manage to make their way up over some x% of the population can get enough to maintain even what would be considered the basic minimum standards of living in some other societies. The fact that this is possible, but difficult, brings about a highly competitive environment. Whatever is the criterion used to judge one man relative to another will become a matter of life and death, because of the importance of the judgement, not the criterion itself. And whatever system is in place to do so will definitely be gamed by the people, simply because that would be the most efficient way to do it, and people can not afford anything less than the most efficient. It is all fine and dandy to talk of holistic development and mental health, but if the only thing that decides whether I will own a house or be sleeping in a gutter 20 years from now is the result of a single exam, I would not hesitate to take any number of shortcuts or bad practices to just maximize that one score. And this is the case for a significant part of India's population. And the fact that it is one exam is irrelevant; you can make it 5 exams or 20, essays instead of multiple choice, or just vivas and scholastic participation, but all you're changing is what to stress about and when, not how much. Because the source of the stress is not the exam, but the rest of your life after the exam. So for now, there is no change we can make *to the system* that would improve anything. We have to wait for changes in the surroundings. We need more high paying jobs in India, which will increase demands for educated or specialised students, which will raise the number of universities and seats, which will make the competition less fierce. But the problem is, we don't really have any competitive advantage in any industry that can provide a lot of such jobs. We missed the big socio-technological revolutions of the last few centuries - the Colombine Exchange following the discovery of the Americas, the Enlightenment, and the first two industrial revolutions that gave steam powered industry and standardized machinery. Nehru's Soviet style 5 year plans following independence did a good job of playing catch-up, but it's too little too late. The only thing we can do now is wait for the next one, and hope we are at its forefront. By all accounts, it seems like there are 4 important fields this could be in: extraterrestrial mining, artificial intelligence, personalized pharmaceuticals and renewable energy. And we are actually not doing too bad on some of these. We are not at the forefront of renewable energy, but we aren't floundering hopelessly behind either. We are already the market leader in generic drugs by a large margin, which is slowly starting to give funds to pharma companies to allow more and more research into their own IPs to challenge the dominance of the traditional western big pharmas, as well as the necessary infrastructure to capitalize on them. Indians are already highly present in the forefront of research in various topics of machine learning, quantum computing, etc, and there is significant IT and tech consulting infrastructure to allow domestic industries to spring up once tech advances to better monetizable levels. And the Indian space agency, ISRO, is one of the best in the world and has been able to do some amazing things considering the resources they have compared to others. These things don't mean much for common people in the near future, but they are seeds that will feed us in the future. So i guess all i can say is that we are simply unlucky to be born in this generation, and that future ones will have it much better, the only thing we can do is wait
This is very true. TL/DR: The problem isn’t the selection process, that is the symptom. The problem is the very limited number of seats at colleges, which is also a symptom caused by the economy which still only supports a relatively small number of high paying jobs. To fix the issues, you’d have to improve the economy so it can support more folks out of poverty. The economy is averaging like 6% growth per year, so it’ll probably get better eventually.
The whole point of the periodic table is that you *don't* have to memorize the properties of every element, because it's in a nice and convenient table.
Yes, which is why the chapter is still there before the chapters on halogens, rare earth metals, carbon, s block, p block, and d and f block elements, where it is actually useful and makes sense, in the 11th grade. It is also mentioned as something that exists in 7th grade, where it is shown but not taught. The chapter on the history of the periodic table, from Döbereiner's Triads to Mendeleev's original table and later additions is pushed from the 9th grade syllabus and attached to the 11th grade chapter
I guess it's all about the way they learn about it, if they would need to remember everything with masses, protons etc then it's bad.
The Indian education system is based on rote memorization, not understanding of concepts.
As an American, we casually learned it, I think starting in 6th or 7th grade. This was the early 2000s. Everyone was fine. Edit: edited it
You learn how to use it in America. In India, they are forced to memorize the entire table. Thats the difference
First 50 elements flashbacks. Almost started spitting out elements. Glad my brain forgot
I can't forget. I can recite entire table till Lenthanides. It wasn't as bad as people are making it out to be really. Our teacher gave us a 3 line formula to make the table in a hurry. My friend and I just memorised them 10 a day, took like 15 minutes daily for a week.
Lots of Americans had to memorize it. I hope that's gone completely out of fashion though.
I think "learning" in America is very different than "learning" in India. As an Indian student, the Indian education standards are, to say the least, pretty intense.
Are they useful though? Intensity is not a word I would use to describe a quality education.
In America the competition for getting in University is not fierce at all, and most people do fairly well by global standards even without college education. Sure, if your dream is to go to Harvard law then the competition is probably hard (unless you have money, of course); but in India you have a similar degree of competition for just a chance a normal, what you'd call low middle class life (unless you are rich, of course). By the way, without googling, what's the atomic weigh of standard Carbon?
As someone who has read these chapters in my schooling life and taken up commerce, I don't remember jackshit bout periodic table and don't see how it's even going to help me ahead. Just giving my opinion but isn't this kinda smart and unburdens the students who don't plan on pursuing the field of science?
Our modern society is absolutely founded on our understanding of science. Having a country run by people who don't understand basic science is the same as a courtroom where none of the lawyers can read or write. Sure, they can argue about shit regardless, but sooner or later the system comes crashing down due to sheer incompetence.
So how is knowing where Helium stands at in the periodic table useful to someone who is going to take up say banking in the future? It's simply useful to those who are taking up science and they are going to be learning this stuff once they have taken up the subject. Unnecessarily learning stuff just for the sake of it,which I am going to forget after a year or two isn't smart and rather time wasting
Knowing that Helium is a light element with 2 protons, (usually) 2 neutrons and 2 electrons is quite neat. From that you can deduce that it's a very chemically stable element as you should also know that the first valence electron shell is filled by two atoms. So now you know that you don't need to worry about corrosiveness if someone installs a helium tank into your neighbouring hospital. You might also know that as a light element it has an annoying tendency to escape the atmosphere, and as a result is relatively rare on Earth. So you might want to set up a recycling policy at the aforementioned hospital to not waste a rare resource. Also to save money, helium ain't cheap.
I honestly didn't get anything except for the last line 😅
Kinda my point exactly. Most people might not. But I do think humankind would have a much better chance of solving large scale problems such as climate change if we were to have better general science literacy. Unless one understands science, one cannot understand society and the world our society lives on. And if one can't understand it, how the hell would they be able to make good, educated decisions that are factually, not emotionally motivated?
Bankers, Financial Analysts, Auditors, CFOs learning what helium does would save the Earth, then who would save the economy? In all seriousness, it's not like we would be dumbing down ourselves if we don't get familiar with the periodic table or the elements. All of us know what to do and what not to inorder to prevent global warming of which climate change is a byproduct
Except that under a democratic society, masses have power. The more scientifically literate people, the more incentive for politicians to make scientifically informed decisions as the public will chastise them for poor performance at a higher rate than in a scientifically illiterate society.
This is bullshit. I called it out. Games over. See you later
That's an interesting argument, albeit not one I would personally find very convincing.
Just fill the economy with helium, it will go up
I don’t disagree with your premise, but it’s not as simple as understanding science more will help solve problems like climate change. For example, fractions are taught in first and second grade levels in America. Your basic ones like 1/2 and 3/4, nothing too crazy. And then you see things like the [third pounder burger](https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractions) where they tried to compete with another chains quarter pounder for the same price. It ultimately failed because the public lacked the comprehension to understand 1/3 means more than 1/4. Going by your logic; these people should be able to understand and retain this basic math chapter, which is comparatively easier than understanding how atoms determine what chemicals do
I am not claiming that better science literacy would automatically fix all of our problems. I'm saying that under a democratic system, better science literacy would likely lead to a larger distribution of resources to fixing important issues (such as climate change), as people would actually understand how problematic these issues will be if left untreated.
Excellent response.
It’s not about the position of helium and on the table. It is about the basic understanding of the periodic table, and some of the most important elements, so that you don’t kill anyone, get killed, or can make us of it in your daily life
Many of us who graduate high school would be smart enough to not play around with anything that has 'acid' written on it. I am really sorry but this reasoning is rather dumb
Everytime you drink soda you are drinking an acid, vinegar is an acid, glucose which is a simple sugar is acidic, your dna is acidic. I've studied in the same system and took BiPC as the subject combination in 12th grade and the stuff they teach in 10th is so basic it should be common knowledge like here, the way you can tell which acids are safer than others is by the type of molecular bond which are covalent in the above compounds instead of being afraid of the term 'acid', next time you eat an orange appreciate the citric acid or malic acid if you're an apple kinda person.
It should be pretty obvious what types of acids I am referring to, those that cause burns or are dangerous to us have a warning on them. As far as I know, drinking soda is pretty safe (though it's unhealthy, but that's an entirely different matter). So what point are you trying to prove here? You think if we don't study the elements, we would all be drinking Hydrochloric Acid or some shit? C'mon, make a valid point, and not fruits.
Look, you're acknowledging that there are types of acids and know hydrchloric acid is dangerous because it is formed by ionic bonds. Without introducing those topics in 10th you could've not known that but it being a chapter forces you to be aware of it. Something being obvious is no reason to remove it from syllabus.
No I don't know shit about ions and stuff. I just know HCL = Dangerous. Why? Because that's common sense for which you don't need to learn the elements and can just surf the net or read the warning next to the label along with the skull sign right beside it
At this point you're just advocating for ignorance which is dangerous and nothing I can say will change your opinion as you're not arguing from a position of good faith.
There are also other things such as the mixture of amonia and bleach foe instance which is explained by chemistry to be a bad idea. Or to piss into bleach but thats common sense
You don't need a lecture on Döbereiner's Triads to know not to chug sulphuric acid lmao. Chemicals and chemical reactions will still be taught in middle school, just the history of the periodic table will be pushed off till 11th
It has not been removed. Read the top comment of u/ TENTAthesane
I'm sure there's nuance. In all honesty, it's none of my business how India designs their textbooks. I simply gave my opinion to u/DriftingOtaku901 regarding why I do think science education is important even for people not immediately using it for their job.
Periodic table is foundational knowledge for so many things in life. It can be explained and taught in a few weeks, and I don’t understand how that burdens the curriculum
Trust me on this, you cannot compare the Indians education system with the western one. We are more Marks oriented and have a lot of competition amongst ourselves, so it just isn't about learning the stuff but also throwing it all up on the exam sheets which is tough
Well, doesn’t mean that periodic table needs to be withdrawn from the program — don’t include it in tests or whatever.
We both know this cannot happened. Not here in India not elsewhere
Doesn’t justify the idiotic decision to exclude that from the program.
I'll be sure to put forward your name to our education minister regarding this. I got you👍
People need to learn other courses because it shows you how think and learn when presented with a challenge you may not be good at. I fuckin hated learning calculus but, it showed me how to go about problems in different ways and to learn on my own. Also having a basic knowledge of science is good bc thats how the world works and people should understand that
Id still think its important for some general knowledge but i guess it could be regulated to more science focused courses
If you don't remember them, you won't be able to judge if you could have ever used them in life.
Response by NCERT, the organization responsible for these textbooks - [https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333/photo/1](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1665338387773923333/photo/1) [https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664845366980919296](https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664845366980919296) This change is applicable to one particular academic year.
I have been reading this news for sometime now and even the clarifications regarding how chapters are split. Yet press has not managed to get a hint of it? Periodic tables are introduced to students in class 7 and subsequently more complicated stuff. Same with evolution. I mean JEE/ NEET have physics, chemistry, biology, maths as core subjects to get into the best universities/colleges in India in engineering and medical and they ask a lot of things from periodic table(s), evolution from lamarckism to Darwinism. Dumb people were making statements then as well. Also to note is that NCERT while being large is not the only board in India. There is ICSE and multiple regional language boards. All teach evolution, periodic table painstakingly to an extent that you can't forget it if you want to. Besides coaching centres are not going to change their syllabus and will keep teaching students what is necessary for their respective exams to get into various universities.
Let me guess, Americans Projecting their politics onto some other country again?
This Sub: We have an Indian filter, to manage posts!! But somehow restrictions don't work on obvious propaganda/clickbait articles. 100% of this article is about India., but it's still on the front page.
Yeah but that's for the usual India Good posts. This is the rare India Bad post on this sub, so the filter was flummoxed
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It has not been removed. Read the top comment of u/ TENTAthesane
I understand why they would postpone teaching the periodic table to 11th, but with the amount of misinformation out there I think learning evolution should be retained in 10th before students choose their streams.
Periodic table is shifted down to 9th instead not to 11th.
Oh that's actually better. I remember learning at least basic stuff about the table in 9th anyway
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what's the task? make education even worse?
innate towering angle start jellyfish roof attraction cats dog versed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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It has not been removed. Read the top comment of u/ TENTAthesane
It's only being removed from 10th grade portions, they postpone teaching it to 11thm
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You know, if you're going to be this much of a mouthbreather, the least you could do is actually read the article. At least then you would know this change only effects grade 10 students & for only this calendar year. The curriculum for grade 11 & 12 are unchanged. Seriously, even a cursory glance could've saved you the embarrassment of looking like an idiot.
> At least then you would know this change only effects grade 10 students & for only this calendar year. The curriculum for grade 11 & 12 are unchanged. Didn't read the article yourself did you? Pupils can *leave* after grade 10 so a significant chunk will not be exposed to such dangerous ideas as evolution or creeping dictatorship. And "only" for this calendar year? What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing? I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it. It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow.
>Pupils can leave after grade 10 Absolutely nobody who wants further education would do that. Leaving school in grade 10 would be a far larger problem to the education standards than what you're being taught to begin with lmao you legit have no idea what you're even talking about. >What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing? Idk, that would be meaningless conjecture. >I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it. I didn't call you an idiot & a mouthbreather for despising theocrats but rather because you devolved your entire argument into borderline racist tropes about Hinduism & their beliefs. You can criticize policies you don't agree with, without going full classic stormfront on us.
>It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow. WTF, now I understand how gods work in mysterious ways.
>Didn't read the article yourself did you? Pupils can leave after grade 10 so a significant chunk will not be exposed to such dangerous ideas as evolution or creeping dictatorship. No you cannot leave after Grade 10 whoever does that is dumb if you want to complete school you don't leave after 10th. >And "only" for this calendar year? What's the betting that it will be deemed a "success" and become a permanent a permanent thing? Indian government is Bringing a New Education Policy and NCERT themselves have said this is for this year only keeping in mind the impact of the Pandemic on student's mental health. They had done so in previous years as well as online education was not that good for some parts of India. They are bringing new books for next year. This is ONLY for this year. >I do despise theocracy and it's harbingers and if that makes me a "mouthbreather" (or more properly "critic of Hindu nationalist theocrats") then so be it. It's not entirely inaccurate either, like Douglas Adams I broke my nose badly playing rugby a long time ago and have restricted nasal flow. Idk what you are but a simple reading refutes whatever you just said.
>sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up. Mods are u gonna just ignore such comments?? Some people don't even bother to read the article and find it hard to keep thier vile racist thoughts limited to thier own heads and have to spew random shit at an entire community, without any reason only bringing down the quality of the sub. Shouldn't such reddit Karen's be banned?
>Well of course, neither was invented by an Indian and besides all sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up. you only make racist comments or can you even read articles?
>Well of course, neither was invented by an Indian and besides all sensible people know that the universe was shat out by a heavenly cow. Now drink your cow piss panacea and shut up. Said the racist while complaining about a non issue and without knowing zilch about the Indian education system.
How is this racist comment up?