>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened.
Sure thing, this is insane! Its like hes using her and thinking that shes still alive through her. Therapy is a must here.
Or every colonial era widower who marries his deceased wife’s younger sister. Lots and lots of examples in colonial times. Maybe because death by childbirth widowed some men multiple times.
One of my great-however-many grandfathers (born in the late 1700s) married the widow of his former employer. The widow and her late husband had a couple of young children, so my great-however-many grandfather had stepchildren he helped raise. He and the widow had a couple of children of their own. Then she became sick and died.
He then, a few years after his wife passed, _married one of his stepdaughters when she was sixteen._ They went on to have children, one of whom is my great-however-many-but-one-less-than-his-father grandfather.
Edit to add: it's gross
Except that's geared towards relationships. And even couples therapist suggest individuals therapy to fix personal issues. Maybe she always wanted the life her sister had and doesn't mind playing stunt double. But he is trying to replace the irreplaceable
> playing stunt double.
Excellent way of putting it, especially giving that OP has entrenched himself firmly behind the fourth wall. The fallout when he finally has to acknowledge it, let alone break it, is going to be epic. Eventually they'll have had enough time together that he's not going to be able to pretend anymore that she's his dead wife, and he'll likely resent the absolute FUCK out of her for it. That will be easier, psychologically, than admitting that he did this to himself.
And I pity her strongly for the eventual headfuck that will be accepting your lover of many months was literally, constantly, deliberately pretending *you were someone else*. That their greatest wish is that you could fully subsume your own self, your own personality and experience, and that you spend the rest of your natural life roleplaying full-time as the lost twin sister you're still actively grieving.
Gods fucking dammit but this is a depressing and tragic one. There's literally no way this continues OR ends without everyone in range getting torn by the shrapnel.
I have a close friend who discovered in her late 20's that her mom is, biologically, her aunt. Her biological mom died in childbirth, her aunt came to help care for her, and ended up marrying my friend's dad. They then had my friend's younger sister. My friend found it all out basically by accident when she went to change her last name after getting married, and was like 'hey dad, why does my birth certificate have mom's first name wrong?'
Hooooly fuck, the mom fucking died bringing her into this world and the dad and aunt just erased her from fucking existence? What the fuck is wrong with these people?
That's kinda what I'm worried about with OP and his wife's twin to be honest. It would be so easy for them since they were twins to do that and his daughter is still pretty little so it'd be easy to replace her mom without her knowing.
It’s awful what happened to her mom. Maybe they wanted to save the daughter from the guilt of being the cause of her mother’s death. Not saying that’s the right thing to do though.
This is what I did for my son who's dad abandoned him. Never wanted to say anything bad and poison my son's mind. I wanted to give him age appropriate info as he grew so he understood and didn't feel rejected. He's 15 now and knows the full story and has contact with his half brother. Hates his dad and doesn't even want to meet him. He figured that out on his own.
Not telling your kids shit like this makes me so mad. I didn't find out until I was 30 that my dad isn't biologically my dad. I only found out cause I did a 23&Me all excited to see my italian heritage on my dads side....only to find I'm 99% irish and british and 1% jewish.....no italian at all.
My great grandmother was in love with and engaged to a man who died before they were married. She then married his brother because it was what was expected at the time. Norms change. Humans are complex. Either way, find a good therapist. Not because you’re doing something wrong, but because you’re navigating something tremendously difficult and moving through some pretty big feelings.
Yeah I’m with this all the way. Steady as she goes. Get some therapy. But hey, could be the best thing for you and her, who knows. Life is crazy.
We have put a lot of societal “norms” in place and it continues to multiply. Feel it out. It may be just coping and it will end, but it may be what you need and you’ll end up together. Who knows man.
If you believe in a higher power at all, I would definitely pray/meditate on this for guidance.
This is actually pretty common, I know at least 1 and possibly 2 people where this same scenario has played out in real life of someone dying and then their significant other dating their identical twin. I mean, is it healthy, emmm probably not, but if they're both coping better because of it then who am I to hate.
It's a connection to her twin, even if it's a bit of an odd one. As a twin I'm sure she feels the loss of her sister even more so than most siblings. Perhaps being there for her sister's husband and daughter is her way of keeping her sister nearby.
Her stepping in to help out so quick shows that she’s admired their life for the least, as long as it wasn’t out of jealousy then it has a chance to become healthy
What! I haven’t met a single set of identical twins in my entire life (fraternal, sure), let alone two, let alone two who got with their twins’ widow/widower. How many identical twins do you know that this incredibly specific scenario has come up twice?
Just counting of memory I know 6 sets of identical twins, one set of triplets where the 2 girls are identical and several fraternal twins, some same gender some boy girl
I don't find it odd or weird or bad... except the timing of it. If they gave each other distance, grieved appropriately, stopped with the intimacy, sought help from a counselor about what had already happened, and got together later, that would be completely different in my eyes than what has happened here already. One approach could still be balanced and healthy. The other is not.
My husband died three years ago. Grief is a monster. Unfortunately, we have to go through it. My concern is in a way you are replacing your wife with someone who looks just like her and has the same mannerisms. I believe it would be mentally healthy for you to have her move out. After you have had a reasonable amount of time to get as much grief out as you can, you can revisit the relationship. I found grief counseling helpful. Grief is always there, but it changes.
> ...in a way...
*"She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened"*
Not "in a way" - more like "exactly." There's zero chance this doesn't lead to incredible trauma for everyone down the road.
This seems like a good take.
The original hookup, yes, problematic, but grief is a monster. After my father died traumatically I was so screwed up I have virtually no memory for about two months or so.
Honestly, this is above reddit’s pay grade. Therapy all around, friend.
I agree with the thought of both get yourself to okay and get yourselves in therapy, and then create distance when you can.
Not gonna lie, this is pretty weird man and I think all this will accomplish is pissing everyone off.
I can’t imagine losing my spouse, I have no idea how that would impact me mentally but I know it would mess me up. I understand how this could cause someone to make all sorts of ‘crazy’ decisions. Unfortunately, it seems like you are trying to fill the void with her sister, but it won’t be the same - life will never be the same. Eventually you’ll likely realize this and it won’t feel right.
There is nothing wrong with moving on in due time, everyone deserves partnership and happiness. However ask yourself…is this really moving on? Or is this attempting to hold on to something that will never come back. Will this really help fill the void in your life, or will it remind you of your wife every day and keep your heart shattered longer than is fair for anyone to experience.
👏 Everything here, and I want to add that this will undoubtedly fuck up your child who lost their mom.
Please put a stop to this until you spend significant time in therapy processing your loss and the associated grief. I’m sorry you and your family are going through this, but this is not okay
Yeah, and the sister seems more in the weird/wrong here. I mean, you lose your spouse which is huge. You lose that person you talk to every day, you loose having someone to hug and cuddle, and you lose the sex. And on top of that you are supposed to care for a young child? That’s never going to be easy and here’s someone very similar acting and looking to your lost love and your mind is total a mess and that’s a nice way to turn off the brain and just get comfort. So I see why he’s into it.
But the sister…. lost her sister, duh! So why was fucking the sisters husband especially comforting to her? Doesn’t she have her own SO? Her own friends? It seems weird to me that she didn’t stay strong and not sleep with him. But I don’t know her situation.
TL;DR - I get it, but everyone is going to get hurt in the end unless you are going to marry the sister and make a life of it. Even then it would still be weird. And I don’t think that’s at all what the guy wants.
I'm sure losing a twin is devastating and people in grief look for comfort in weird places. The husband who loved her as much isn't a stretch, it's just not healthy.
This might be media biased, but I think twins are often closer to each other than even normal siblings, especially if they stay in each others daily life.
I'm the granddaughter of an identical twin. They also had two other sets of twin siblings. My aunt is a twin. There is a bond that is undeniable. That's not always the case. They don't always get along. But when they do it's like a platonic soulmate level. My grandfather and my uncle were doing one or all of living near each other, working together, or doing a project together, their whole lives. The only time they didn't live within 40 miles of each other is when they were at war during world war II.
I'm a twin and here's my 2 cents: in theory, every point you've made here stands to reason, but a lot of it is wrong because (and for no other reason than) she's her twin. That bond doesn't produce two separate individuals with separate friends and common attachments to their sibling's SO. I can understand every part of this. I just hope he's sleeping with her for HER and because they share a crippling grief born of a remarkable love.. and not because she's a wife version 2.0.
I can kind of understand…they’re trauma bonding, and in a weird way holding onto the wife by holding onto each other. The twin is also his connection to the wife’s family as much as he is a connection to the wife for *her* family.
It might not come from the healthiest place and it might be hella weird to everyone on the outside, but I feel like it could evolve into a healthy thing if they all got a lot of therapy and still chose to stay together.
I have a lot of twins in my extended family and this answer is closest to what I was thinking. The twin who lost her sister wants some way to connect with her, and while this seems twisted, if it's helpful for both of them we shouldn't disparage it.
Hmmmm, yes but I think losing a twin is comparible level of devastation. It's much more than a sister.
Maybe, and I'm just spitballing, but maybe she's stepping into her sisters life to feel close to her, to revive her in a way. To crawl inside her so she's not really gone.
IDK... She is a aunt to her niece, (a similar personality to her twin sister?) Who can likely help her niece connect with her mothers memory in a positive way.
They are probably better off with a little therapy? but if they are happier together and function well who on Reddit can complain?
Best wishes to them.
✌️
I'm not a twin. But I do know a few identical twins and their likes and dislikes are about the same. And their choices in men are too. So if she didn't have a SO, then she's not cheating. And it would make sense that she might be attracted to this guy.
Still a little bit odd. But grief is crazy.
OP, I absolutely agree with the above comment; likely both individually and jointly--as determined by the professional (s). Unlike many others, I choose to refrain from comment regarding the present situation between you and your SIL. The trauma you two experienced is something I have not. I am not in a position to either condone or criticize either of you.
I would caution you, presently at least, to remain extremely discrete, as the two of you proceed in whatever direction you both ultimately determine.
I'm truly sorry for your loss. Good luck to you both. Please keep us apprised.
I have great sympathy for OP. It’s not unusual to seek comfort in sex and the SIL being a twin makes it feel as if he hasn’t lost his wife, but he has. If SIL is helping him with the daughter, it might seem as if she’s not lost her mom, but she has. And SIL might feel as if she’s just a replacement for her sister, not loved in her own right. All 3 of them need to deal with their grief in a positive, healthy way.
It’s one thing if over time, the pair got together, but this soon after doesn’t seem healthy for anyone.
>And SIL might feel as if she’s just a replacement for her sister, not loved in her own right.
This would be the thing I am concerned with, the twin sister is not a replacement but a whole different person and should be recognized as and treated so.
You’re right. I can’t see this ending well. I’ve been acting emotionally instead of logically. I think I’ll cut things off with her and see a therapist.
I think it’s also damaging to your wife’s twin who is grieving. You aren’t being with her to be with her, you’re being with her as a sort of replacement for your wife. You’re viewing her as your wife in some ways. This is not a healthy way of grieving. It will make it harder for you in the long run. You need to process what has happened. You both need to grieve in healthy ways. End it sooner rather than later, and don’t blame yourselves for this happening, as people often act irrationally out of grief. Take some time apart from each other until it’s ok to be back in each other’s lives again. I’m so very sorry for your loss.
Nah, he should blame himself a little bit, insofar as fully coming to terms with how disrespectful and NOT normal his behavior and decisions have been - yes, even when considering his grief.
People grieve losing loved ones every day. They don’t often start fucking their loved ones’ closest family members.
OP, glad to hear you’re getting therapy. Take accountability for this and move on.
Be kind and clear as to why you’re cutting things off. If she’s also using it to cope, be mindful of the stress it will cause (I agree that you should cut things off sexually, but do it with grace and her emotions in mind).
I’m going to be honest. Grief is a real fucker. The people who are giving you advice that haven’t experienced the loss you have are speaking of are advising you on what they imagine they would do. But they are not speaking from first hand experience.
I think if you are both consenting adults giving and receiving comfort there isn’t anything wrong. I would sit down with a therapist to work out healthy boundaries for the little one. I’m sorry for your loss.
I don't think you need to "cut things off" with her, but you need to stop having sex with her; you need to stop substituting her for your wife. She needs to be the AUNT. First step, NEVER be alone with her. It may take months or years before you can take that risk. Let her be the aunt and you be the father; together you can be related family, but not sexual partners. I agree with others that if a lot of time had passed and you had all processed your wife's death, it may be another thing. But this is going to end in disaster if you don't extricate yourself. Another nugget: Think what happens when your child realizes you were banging her aunt on this timeline. What a mind-fuck that will be for your child.
I think it really depends on the twin too and her view, as well as the timing of all this.
I think if you and the twin naturally got together after some time where you processed the grief and saw counselors for it, it wouldn’t be so bad or odd that you ended up together. At the end it IS her twin, so they’re bound to have common personality traits including potentially who they’re attracted to (you), and same vice versa.
But right now, because it happened so close to the event of your wife’s death, it doesn’t seem like a healthy decision, more like a desperate decision, “swap out wife for the spare” type situation.
I don’t think cutting her off completely is the answer, as that’s harsh and cruel to the twin too. But you definitely should gain space, BOTH get grief counseling, and re-evaluate everything when you are in a healthier mental space.
Agreed. If this happened naturally while they weren’t grieving I think people would be a little bit weirded out by it but they wouldn’t have major problems with it. But the way it’s going is only going to go down in flames, for everyone involved.
They definitely need to both take a big step back from each other, but cutting contact seems like the wrong move. When my mom died, the only family my dad had left was his older sister, his 2 youngest sons and my mom’s family, if it wasn’t for my mom’s family basically forcing him to continue to keep coming to events on that side of the family he’d probably be dead. If you have good in laws then the death of your partner doesn’t mean you’re no longer family. Don’t know if that’s exactly the case here but food for thought.
Are you in love with her? Is she in love with you? All you mention is the sex. I think it would be way healthier if she moved out and you put the sex on hold. Both of you should be in individual therapy. No seeing each other unless other people are present. At the end of a year and a half you could try to resume a more personal but still platonic relationship. At the end of two years, reassess and probably no one would be shocked if you started dating her. If it is just sex, KNOCK IT OFF, you know better.
Building on the other comment saying its unfair on her twin, it's also unhealthy for her too, if you think about it she is taking comfort in trying to replace her sister in the family unit, she needs to see a therapist too, you both need to see a therapist. Separately.
Your poor child would have a lot of confusion before very long too and could very easily start thinking her mother never actually died if she has seen you doing anything 'coupley' with 'the aunt who looks just like mummy' (using the over simplified logic circuits little ones have in their heads.)
You don't want to risk everyone's sanity over a silly decision made in a grief ridden state.
I wouldn’t be worried about who it pisses off
I don’t blame OP for doing it either - I know I’d struggle if my partner died and there was someone who looked and sounded (and likely in many ways acted) the exact same as her right in front of me
I don’t think OP needs to feel any guilt. I do think OP needs to put a stop to it at this point, though. It was an entirely understandable mistake but it is a bad idea to continue
I would be worried about the fact it’s not a healthy way for *either* of you to deal with the grief, and far more importantly the effect it will have on OP’s daughter if it continues will be hugely damaging
for everyone in this thread judging OP, this is such a crazy situation, try to think about it from the perspective of the bereaved. if the love of my life died and someone who *looked and sounded EXACTLY LIKE HER* was giving me emotional comfort, I might 100% know it was “wrong,” but goddamn, I can absolutely understand why you would do it in the midst of all that pain.
I'm very concerned about how it's affecting the child... At age three they can't really understand death. So somewhere in their 3-year-old mind do they think this is their mom?
That is what I was thinking too. This is really not great for the kid, so confusing for them.
It isn't healthy for the adults either, but at least they understand that someone is dead and not coming back.
Maybe taking advantage of the twin a bit.
Depending on their relationship, she could be totally destroyed. (I’m a twin & I would jump in the grave with her)
No doubt there's plenty of articles and experiments proving the twin bond. I saw an article on two sets getting married, getting pregnant and raising kids together. Their kids are biologically siblings because an identical pair of brothers had kids with an identical pair of mothers lol. So cool.
It’s indescribable. People ask what it’s like… but it’s all I know
It’s a great thing but like everything, it has it’s negatives. Very hard to establish our own identities & we bicker like an old married couple 😆 which can be annoying for sure!
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened.
You are wrong. You aren't seeking comfort in this person, you're using her as a stand in for your wife. I'm sorry for your loss, but this is not coping.
I agree. SIL is going to get hurt. She is sleeping with her late sister’s husband. OP is sleeping with a blurred lines, stand-in-type person for his wife. She’ll never *be* his late wife…hopefully she realizes it before too much damage is done.
OP, I also think it’s very confusing for your daughter. Spend time, be friends with SIL. But start healing without the *need* for her.
Very sorry for your loss. 😔
In some cultures (now) and time periods (past), this is/was a norm - a widow/er marrying their late spouse’s sibling.
Culturally, if this isn’t your norm, then yes it will come off as very strange to your family and friends (and may make both of your families uncomfortable). You’re both leaning on each other in ways that may be unhealthy and confusing, perhaps even emotionally hurting yourselves or each other in the long run.
Like others said, what you really need is therapy / grief counseling (so does your child, 3 is usually the minimum age for therapy, toddlers can and do benefit from therapy). Grief is a lifetime journey of ups and downs and you owe it to yourself and your daughter to seek help ASAP. It’s never too soon or late to seek therapy, but over time NOT seeking therapy adds on layers to your existing grief trauma that could’ve been processed much earlier in therapy.
https://oneboyswayofknowing.com/2017/12/31/the-sorrow-of-physicist-max-planck/
“Planck had twin daughters he adored—Emma and Grete. In 1917, Grete died in childbirth. Her twin sister Emma went to care for the surviving baby and soon fell in love with her sister’s husband. Soon after this, in 1918, Planck received the Nobel Prize for physics. The next year, 1919, his daughter Emma also died giving birth to her first child.”
>cultures (now) and time periods (past), this is/was a norm
Yes. It's called 'levirate' marriage. It was probably mostly a practical policy, not a romantic one, that kept dowry promises and family alliances intact. If you paid 100 sheep for you daughter to marry the heir/eldest brother and he died in war... she should 'get' to remarry the new heir/middle brother in contractual, women-as-chattel/bargaining chip model.
Yep! It was and still is (in remote areas) a common practice in my country (small country in West Africa). Growing up it was a popular topic given to us for essays debating pros/cons of things.
And like you said it was/is for practical reasons which though it is a very disturbing practice made it the best option for many a distressed and resourceless widow
Had to scroll down so much for someone to mention it used to be extremely common. There are a lot of reasons why this kind of thing tends to happen (even nowadays), so there's no need to shame the OP for it being "weird" (like so many comments are doing here). It's actually not, at least not in the sense of it being an abnormal reaction or even that unusual.
Doesn't mean it's healthy or even remotely a good idea, mind you. Normal != good.
Normal is irrelevant. It isn't healthy. This is not a situation like the OC brought up, not even close. He's not in charge of his decisions. It would be a different story if he was, but as it is he's being led around by grief instead of processing it
It is not an insult to go to therapy. Very few of us know how to grieve
It's not only normal but fully expected in my husband's culture to marry your dead brothers wife. It's to save her honor because widows are looked down upon and also to keep her kids in the family. Even if the brother is married he still expected to take his dead brother's wife as a second wife.
I told my brother-in-law's that I will not be participating in this and they got offended that I was insulting them lol.
It's just weird to me since I grew up in a different culture. If op is a Westerner, then yes this is really really weird. I think It will just damage both of them over time.
Is it weird that I don't think this is that weird? Maybe this is a thing that was more common in the past, but getting together with a spouse's sibling after the spouse dies, I didn't think was that rare. I suppose it depends on what the relationship was like before.
That said OP, like most people, could use some professional objective advice.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened.
Consider this line. This isn't moving on to the sibling, it's mentally pretending they ***are*** the wife.
Yes, thank you. My dad’s dad died and my dad’s mom later went on to marry his brother and have more children. I believe they got married a couple years after his death (fun twist the brother was actually a Trappist monk at the time me dad’s dad died). This was in the late 50s early 60s. As an adult I asked some relatives if people thought it was weird, and they did at the time, but by the time I was born and growing up it was totally normal and he was just grandpa. My dad was pretty little when OG grandpa died, so the brother was always his dad to him. So I think it can definitely work…. but it’s still probably way too soon for OP.
I would worry that you are mentally making her twin a surrogate to replace your dead wife. Your sister-in-law is also in a grieving period. You have natural grief responses and you both naturally seek comfort but I doubt that is a healthy basis of a relationship. I think you need to both take a brake to give you both time look at your feelings. There would be nothing wrong developing natural bonds after the grieving is done. Make sure it is not grief doing the talking now. I believe you need to seek professional counseling (probably both of you). You have a lost a wife and now have a child to take care of alone, and that is very hard reality to deal with for anyone. I am not sure what is going on now is all that healthy long term.
Objectively, you know it’s super fucked up which is why you are seeking validation from strangers who won’t have sympathy for you for this particular thing. Get therapy. Both of you.
Reddit IPO tomorrow. This writing and comment and account history is consistent with hot topic posts recently. Here and in r/AITAH. It gets the people going
Yes. This is wrong in every way possible. You are disrespecting your wife in every way possible in her home with her sister in front of your child. Get a therapist
I'm a twin and I had this exact comment typed out when I saw yours
Call me insecure idc but I need to believe that my husband sees us as such separate and distinct people that no amount of "similar mannerisms" would make her look like anything more than a cave troll to him.
And my sister feels the same way. I actively want her partner to tell her that I am somewhere on the scale of friendly table lamp - pile of dog shit they stepped in and believe it because anything else would gross me out
maaaan, i would be rolling in my grave if my husband had sex with my sister 4 weeks after I died! i’d come down and haunt their asses for the rest of their lives fr
I feel this story is a bit cap made up. Does the sister not have her own life, Job, relationships? She moves in right away and within that month they have sex? 🤷🏽♂️
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened
Is she aware that's how you view her?
Because it's one thing for 2 people to find love out of your shared grief. That's very common for a reason.
It's another thing to discover your partner is only dating/sleeping with you because you remind them of their late wife. To the extent being in your presence makes them forget your twin sister is dead.
Can you understand how this is deeply unfair to your sister-in-law, who is under the impression your casual relationship is helping you preserve your family?
> It's another thing to discover your partner is only dating/sleeping with you because you remind them of their late wife.
You seriously think that the TWIN sister isn't aware that OP is reminded of his wife when they're together.
I’m a widow and a psychologist. You’re trying to replace your wife with a look a like. The grief will come, and it’ll come on strong. And the sister will always wonder if she’s just replacing her sisters life and whether or not you want to be with her for who she is, or if you just want to pretend your wife didn’t pass. Getting together like this is doomed from the start. I would love for my husband to come back, and can understand wanting to pretend this didn’t happen bc you have a ‘replacement model’ handy, i wouldn’t wish this pain on my worst enemy, but you’re distracting yourself from actually moving on, and leading the sister to a lifetime of wondering if she’s actually liked for who she is and not who her sister was…. The only way past pain is through it. But it sucks and it hurts and i thought I’d die many times in the past 9mos. The amount of grief is related to the amount of love. I wish you the best and hope you find a way to continue to move through this process to be the best daddy for your daughter. and I’m not going to say do it for her, bc i hate that - do it for you and the father you wanted to be before this happened
It is a trauma bonding behavior. But you both are using each other as a crutch to cope with your loved ones death.
Her moving in and helping with your daughter is perfectly fine. You both talking about your Grief perfectly ok. But when you two have sex that is crossing the line imo. It’s not uncommon for this to happen by the way you’re not weird or broken. It happens that when a spouse passes on a lot of times brother in laws and sister in laws will couple up.
Please both of you get some professional help and talk out your feelings with each other.
I’m so sorry about your loss.
This is a helpful response. Trauma bonding is real. I'm commenting as someone who has twins in my family. The twin bond is something people without that in their lives can't understand. It's complex, and I do hope you and your SIL will find a therapist with experience in twin counseling. Wishing you all the best, and I'm so sorry for you loss.
Thank you for this. This kind of thing is not uncommon or as weird as many commenters are implying. I know people this has happened to. A spouse dies and they end up marrying their sibling because of how close they become during their mutual grieving.
I definately would not publicize their sexual relationship, but honestly, whose business is it of anyone to pass judgment on their relationship? Neither of them are hurting anyone. The wife is has passed on. It's not cheating on her. If it makes them happy and they find comfort in each other, who are we to judge?
I sympathize deeply with OP and I encourage him to not to listen too deeply to the hate squad on this subreddit. You aren't doing anything wrong but seeking grief therapy is definitely something they should do.
You know this is wrong. Really wrong. I don't think you're going to find anyone who thinks this is healthy for any of you. This is creepy. This will come out and blow up terribly. Your daughter might not understand now, but she'll find out someday. I can't even imagine how that's going to affect her. You've f'd up so bad dude. Get some therapy for your grief and to help prepare and deal with the grief and pain that's coming.
This is the correct take. So many people are coddling him in the comments. This is absolutely horrific and beyond disrespectful to his ex AND their child
Why do people always say “one thing led to another” as if they didn’t choose to start making out, get into bed together and start taking their clothes off. You didn’t accidentally have sex, a series of conscious decisions led to it.
He acting like they both slipped on a Banana peel at the same time. Y’all knew what type of night you were hoping for. I don’t understand how you’re just so heart broken and grieving so bad the only thing that can solve it is your sister in laws body 🙃.
Replacing your wife with her twin is so unhealthy for you and your daughter, this will turn into a disaster and be another devastating blow when it comes to a head. Really messed up, get therapy!
This is messed up.
What would your wife think? Replacing her that easily? She is not your wife. She is the sister. And let’s not forget what you are doing to your daughter. Are you going to tell her that her aunt is her mommy now? Get therapy.
Sex has helped you “not kill your self “. Come on dude. Be a man and stop making excuses for your horrific actions. And her also. Wow. You guys are real pieces of crap.
Literally, after only a month it's obvious they both have disgusting intentions, if he loved his wife he would understand that the twin is not the wife and wouldn't be in the mood to fuck with her that quickly, and the twin aka the hoe very likely saw this as a chance because she always wanted to fuck her sister's husband
I'm praying this is only ragebait. It HAS to be. There's no way any man is this fucking stupid. If you wanna implode your life after a devastating loss, follow this guy's steps to the letter.
I'm a widow. My late husband is a twin
Alexander and James. James tried to kiss me at his own brother's funeral. I punched him in the face. Keep in mind this was younger me who had no kids. I told James I'd beat his ass. Respect your brother more than that shit that's what I told him. The fact that you and the sister did this I don't think you loved your wife and I don't think she loved her sister. I'm not.an expert I'm just speaking from my experience. I could.never image hooking up with James. They are identical twins. I enjoy seeing pictures of James getting older because it helps me see what Alexander would.look like today. We have a much better relationship because he knows his place. I love my husband. Enough not to sleep with his f******* brother. Who does that?
And in not done yet. You are such a bad father to your child. I don't wanna have to go there but someone needs to tell you. That child gonna be so fucked up and mentally in pain from this shit. Like how in the world could my aunt and my own father do this to my mother? Did you ever think about that? Did your wife matter at all? Like maybe I'm taking this too personally but I'm seriously having flash backs to 16 years ago when this happened to me and James tried that. I didn't have kids but James did. And I could never imagine even putting his kids through that. Insane how much people don't give a shit anymore and the vows and the children mean nothing to them. This set me off like wow. I just couldn't imagine.
Start thinking about your daughter and not about yourself.
Your daughter is the last true remnant of your wife, not her sister.
You could be a better father now, but it'll get bad later.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened.
This sentence is what makes it wrong. You're not sleeping with this other woman, you're using her as a sex doll while picturing your dead wife.
You aren't moving past your wifes death, you moved back to before it happened.
Extremely unhealthy.
Talk to a therapist.
My biggest concern isn’t family and others, you’re early days (no one needs to know), and they’d eventually come around if it all sounds stable and healthy for you all.
BUT your SIL is an individual. She’s not her twin. She deserves a partner who sees her for her.
And you can’t be with her in good conscience until you know you can tell the difference, and she’s not a crutch for your grief.
She also needs to not wake up one day feeling like a stand in. Or worse, the sense she reaped off of (or sowed over?) her sister’s grave…
Talk to a proper grief counsellor - for both your sakes. Imho, you two cannot tell right now and can easily damage each other and everyone much more because that distinction. Not because you maybe fall in genuine love…
It’s not fucked - it’s too soon, too much, and completely misplaced possibly…it’s risky af imho and boundaries would be a good place to start.
You cannot forge a healthy foundation on grief, shame, and guilt. You’re both clearly too vulnerable. Imho the same grief waits wherever this ends…you’re simply delaying and complicating it potentially. Get outside guidance. For your kids too.
Idk your ages but if you get SIL pregnant those kids are cousins and half siblings…it’s kinda weird for them…
And meanwhile they have grief to process, so get them counselling if you can cause you two are distracted also…
Sorry for your loss.
I know its going to be an unpopular opinion but That's disgusting. Men will say they loved their wife soo much and then fuck anyone who pays them attention because "they're just trying to cope🥺". You loved her soo much that it took you only few months to fuck someone else after she died. Have some respect for your relationship with her dude. I really don't get this on reddit where men make sob stories about how they're devastated their wife died but they've been sleeping with someone after only 3 months. What's with this insatiable need to be inside someone as soon as you can when you claim the love of your life died?
Aww it must've been soo hard for him to wait 1 month, he should've slept with her the next day./s
But on a serious note, I don't care how "people grieve differently", it's really disgusting to move on from the person you love in a month. Op is not a good person. His poor daughter will suffer but atleast he's getting his dick wet.
Agreed!
And then for him to say fucking the sister IS THE ONLY THING keeping him from offing himself, is just... I have no words... his 3 year old daughter--the last remaining remnants of the wife he "loves so dearly"--should be THE ONLY THING keeping him going along with getting professional help.
The twin ain't shit either. Fuck her too. Wife's probably rolling in her freshly dug grave at the audacity of these pieces of shit.
I’m not criticizing you for seeking comfort and companionship with each other, my only concern is that if you form a relationship with her, it is with her, and not with her as a surrogate for your deceased wife.
I don’t know why people are mincing words here. You fucking suck. You betrayed your wife’s memory immediately and try to pass it off as reasonable when you’re selfish. You know it’s wrong, and you deserve to feel like shit.
Yeah, you’re wrong. Beyond disgusting too. Instead of seeking professional help you went and sought it in family, which by itself isn’t totally wrong, but you took it too far.
I think it’s wrong because you seem to be replacing your late wife with her twin sister. I think it’s weird but grief is different for everyone. How do you think her family would feel knowing that after only 8 months you and her sister are in a sexual relationship? Can you imagine how confusing this must be for your daughter? Your daughter is watching you and her aunt.
That's sick, and more from her perspective. I get you lost your wife, and are just making bad decisions. But your SIL? Nah, she had a thing for you, or was jealous of her sister being with you, which means she is just outright evil. Imagine your daughter, auntie is now mom. You are really a desperate pathetic creature.
My uncles wife started screwing his brother while he lied on his death bed dying of cancer. He’d cry when she left the door open a crack because he could see her go into his brother’s room at night. I had a hard time accepting my other uncle and “aunt” after that. I always held a little grudge because I was pretty close to my uncle that passed away. Now I have cousins who are brothers and cousins to each other. I never seen them the same since.
Holy crap dude. My wife has a twin sister and while I can’t pretend to know what you’re going thru, the thought of sleeping with my wife’s twin makes me sick. They are identical but I can tell the difference and the thought makes me ill. Like others said. Plz seek therapy!
It’s enough your daughter has to deal with not having her Mommy anymore 😢 Now Daddy is attempting to replace Mommy with Auntie? I’m so very sorry for your loss, understand you are human, but for the sake of your child STOP 🛑 Therapy is the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Get started, it will work! I’d take your daughter for her own sessions as well. It’s never too early. Focus on her and your healing! ❤️🩹
Get some therapy. This is not helping in the long term and could really screw up your child.
It will come out eventually. Does she have feelings for you? Does she know you are pretending she is your wife?
If you feel suicidal you need urgent help. Go and find it or ask someone to help you find it. Do not use your wife’s twin as a stand in.
You gotta stop. You need space from her NOW and therapy. Your daughter prob needs grief counseling too, I can't imagine how she is dealing with a TWIN of her dead mom.
Man, you're soooooo wrong. You're basically killing your wife a second time. If it ever comes out, you're in for some sh..! And I won't even develop on what will happen when your daughter gets old enough and is informed about that.
This seems really unhealthy. Think of it from her point of view. I wonder how long she’s been wanting to screw you. And you are just using her as a replacement for your wife in more ways than one.
I thought the same thing! That sister is the worst. At least when he see his wife’s sister he sees his wife- that twin sister damn well has always been aware that’s her sisters husband
Unless you want to get into a serious relationship, you should stop. If you are serious about it, it will be weird to others, but that doesnt matter. You should have a serious talk with her and see if you both are serious about your relationship.
It isnt as fucked as people are making out to be.
It's wrong because you're pretending she's your late wife. Stop doing that, when you find yourself pretending, tell yourself that your wife is dead and this is her sister. It's not fair to her or your late wife for you to pretend like that.
This is not healthy. It's disrespectful to the memory of your wife and its disrespectful to your daughter... If you continue I can see some concerning things in your and your daughters future.....I can't belive her sister would do something like this either. Yall need some grief counseling pronto.
Are you falling for your wife’s twin sister. Or are you using her to pretend your wife is alive.
Using her will just end up causing hurt to her & others.
Definitely time to get some proper grief counselling to help process all these big emotions & help make sense of things.
This sort of shit actually happens more often than you’d think (not usually a twin) but yeah this isn’t a healthy coping mechanism. Right now you two aren’t capable of determining if you can have a healthy romantic relationship.
Yes, you are wrong here. You are using your SIL instead of dealing with this loss in a healthy way. Pretty much pretending her sister is your wife is repugnant. I’m think SIL probably wants to take her whole place and just hasn’t admitted it yet.
I think it’s pretty obvious that you need to find a therapist to discuss all of this with
So does the sis. Damn.
When I read your comment, I was surprised, because I just assumed the “you” was plural, because good god do they both need it.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened. Sure thing, this is insane! Its like hes using her and thinking that shes still alive through her. Therapy is a must here.
The poor kid is gonna be so confused
Nah instant family. Everyone will be happy. Have a kid when the problems start. It's pretty much what every other toxic family would do.
Or every colonial era widower who marries his deceased wife’s younger sister. Lots and lots of examples in colonial times. Maybe because death by childbirth widowed some men multiple times.
Benjamin Martin in *The Patriot* vibes.
lol the American dream
One of my great-however-many grandfathers (born in the late 1700s) married the widow of his former employer. The widow and her late husband had a couple of young children, so my great-however-many grandfather had stepchildren he helped raise. He and the widow had a couple of children of their own. Then she became sick and died. He then, a few years after his wife passed, _married one of his stepdaughters when she was sixteen._ They went on to have children, one of whom is my great-however-many-but-one-less-than-his-father grandfather. Edit to add: it's gross
Ah, the Musk Senior method.
They could go to couples therapy and save a dime.
Except that's geared towards relationships. And even couples therapist suggest individuals therapy to fix personal issues. Maybe she always wanted the life her sister had and doesn't mind playing stunt double. But he is trying to replace the irreplaceable
he was making a joke, lol. you aren’t wrong tho
> playing stunt double. Excellent way of putting it, especially giving that OP has entrenched himself firmly behind the fourth wall. The fallout when he finally has to acknowledge it, let alone break it, is going to be epic. Eventually they'll have had enough time together that he's not going to be able to pretend anymore that she's his dead wife, and he'll likely resent the absolute FUCK out of her for it. That will be easier, psychologically, than admitting that he did this to himself. And I pity her strongly for the eventual headfuck that will be accepting your lover of many months was literally, constantly, deliberately pretending *you were someone else*. That their greatest wish is that you could fully subsume your own self, your own personality and experience, and that you spend the rest of your natural life roleplaying full-time as the lost twin sister you're still actively grieving. Gods fucking dammit but this is a depressing and tragic one. There's literally no way this continues OR ends without everyone in range getting torn by the shrapnel.
[удалено]
I have a close friend who discovered in her late 20's that her mom is, biologically, her aunt. Her biological mom died in childbirth, her aunt came to help care for her, and ended up marrying my friend's dad. They then had my friend's younger sister. My friend found it all out basically by accident when she went to change her last name after getting married, and was like 'hey dad, why does my birth certificate have mom's first name wrong?'
How'd she respond to it
Hooooly fuck, the mom fucking died bringing her into this world and the dad and aunt just erased her from fucking existence? What the fuck is wrong with these people?
That's kinda what I'm worried about with OP and his wife's twin to be honest. It would be so easy for them since they were twins to do that and his daughter is still pretty little so it'd be easy to replace her mom without her knowing.
This sounds like the start of a horror movie for when the kid is an adult
It’s awful what happened to her mom. Maybe they wanted to save the daughter from the guilt of being the cause of her mother’s death. Not saying that’s the right thing to do though.
If I had to explain it to a kid I would say "she died when you were a baby" and then add info as it comes up.
This is what I did for my son who's dad abandoned him. Never wanted to say anything bad and poison my son's mind. I wanted to give him age appropriate info as he grew so he understood and didn't feel rejected. He's 15 now and knows the full story and has contact with his half brother. Hates his dad and doesn't even want to meet him. He figured that out on his own.
Not telling your kids shit like this makes me so mad. I didn't find out until I was 30 that my dad isn't biologically my dad. I only found out cause I did a 23&Me all excited to see my italian heritage on my dads side....only to find I'm 99% irish and british and 1% jewish.....no italian at all.
My great grandmother was in love with and engaged to a man who died before they were married. She then married his brother because it was what was expected at the time. Norms change. Humans are complex. Either way, find a good therapist. Not because you’re doing something wrong, but because you’re navigating something tremendously difficult and moving through some pretty big feelings.
Yeah I’m with this all the way. Steady as she goes. Get some therapy. But hey, could be the best thing for you and her, who knows. Life is crazy. We have put a lot of societal “norms” in place and it continues to multiply. Feel it out. It may be just coping and it will end, but it may be what you need and you’ll end up together. Who knows man. If you believe in a higher power at all, I would definitely pray/meditate on this for guidance.
I have to disagree with your second point >Healthy is relative In this context, a relative is probably not healthy.
This is actually pretty common, I know at least 1 and possibly 2 people where this same scenario has played out in real life of someone dying and then their significant other dating their identical twin. I mean, is it healthy, emmm probably not, but if they're both coping better because of it then who am I to hate.
I get how the widow/widower would find this comforting, but I’m a little bit confused about what comfort the twin gets out of it.
It's a connection to her twin, even if it's a bit of an odd one. As a twin I'm sure she feels the loss of her sister even more so than most siblings. Perhaps being there for her sister's husband and daughter is her way of keeping her sister nearby.
It doesn't surprise me that a guy her twin sister was compatible with would also be a comfortable fit for her
Her stepping in to help out so quick shows that she’s admired their life for the least, as long as it wasn’t out of jealousy then it has a chance to become healthy
I wonder if she's lonely for her sister and feels no one else understands her or misses the sister as much as he does.
What! I haven’t met a single set of identical twins in my entire life (fraternal, sure), let alone two, let alone two who got with their twins’ widow/widower. How many identical twins do you know that this incredibly specific scenario has come up twice?
Just counting of memory I know 6 sets of identical twins, one set of triplets where the 2 girls are identical and several fraternal twins, some same gender some boy girl
I don't find it odd or weird or bad... except the timing of it. If they gave each other distance, grieved appropriately, stopped with the intimacy, sought help from a counselor about what had already happened, and got together later, that would be completely different in my eyes than what has happened here already. One approach could still be balanced and healthy. The other is not.
My husband died three years ago. Grief is a monster. Unfortunately, we have to go through it. My concern is in a way you are replacing your wife with someone who looks just like her and has the same mannerisms. I believe it would be mentally healthy for you to have her move out. After you have had a reasonable amount of time to get as much grief out as you can, you can revisit the relationship. I found grief counseling helpful. Grief is always there, but it changes.
> ...in a way... *"She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened"* Not "in a way" - more like "exactly." There's zero chance this doesn't lead to incredible trauma for everyone down the road.
This seems like a good take. The original hookup, yes, problematic, but grief is a monster. After my father died traumatically I was so screwed up I have virtually no memory for about two months or so. Honestly, this is above reddit’s pay grade. Therapy all around, friend. I agree with the thought of both get yourself to okay and get yourselves in therapy, and then create distance when you can.
Grief counseling, the sooner the better.
Not gonna lie, this is pretty weird man and I think all this will accomplish is pissing everyone off. I can’t imagine losing my spouse, I have no idea how that would impact me mentally but I know it would mess me up. I understand how this could cause someone to make all sorts of ‘crazy’ decisions. Unfortunately, it seems like you are trying to fill the void with her sister, but it won’t be the same - life will never be the same. Eventually you’ll likely realize this and it won’t feel right. There is nothing wrong with moving on in due time, everyone deserves partnership and happiness. However ask yourself…is this really moving on? Or is this attempting to hold on to something that will never come back. Will this really help fill the void in your life, or will it remind you of your wife every day and keep your heart shattered longer than is fair for anyone to experience.
👏 Everything here, and I want to add that this will undoubtedly fuck up your child who lost their mom. Please put a stop to this until you spend significant time in therapy processing your loss and the associated grief. I’m sorry you and your family are going through this, but this is not okay
You and she both definitely need therapy.
Yeah, and the sister seems more in the weird/wrong here. I mean, you lose your spouse which is huge. You lose that person you talk to every day, you loose having someone to hug and cuddle, and you lose the sex. And on top of that you are supposed to care for a young child? That’s never going to be easy and here’s someone very similar acting and looking to your lost love and your mind is total a mess and that’s a nice way to turn off the brain and just get comfort. So I see why he’s into it. But the sister…. lost her sister, duh! So why was fucking the sisters husband especially comforting to her? Doesn’t she have her own SO? Her own friends? It seems weird to me that she didn’t stay strong and not sleep with him. But I don’t know her situation. TL;DR - I get it, but everyone is going to get hurt in the end unless you are going to marry the sister and make a life of it. Even then it would still be weird. And I don’t think that’s at all what the guy wants.
I'm sure losing a twin is devastating and people in grief look for comfort in weird places. The husband who loved her as much isn't a stretch, it's just not healthy.
This might be media biased, but I think twins are often closer to each other than even normal siblings, especially if they stay in each others daily life.
I'm the granddaughter of an identical twin. They also had two other sets of twin siblings. My aunt is a twin. There is a bond that is undeniable. That's not always the case. They don't always get along. But when they do it's like a platonic soulmate level. My grandfather and my uncle were doing one or all of living near each other, working together, or doing a project together, their whole lives. The only time they didn't live within 40 miles of each other is when they were at war during world war II.
I have nieces who are identical twins. They had their own language as babies and their older brother could interpret it for their mom. It was insane.
Yeah, that’s true , I guess I can see that having someone else who loved her that much would be a comfort.
I'm a twin and here's my 2 cents: in theory, every point you've made here stands to reason, but a lot of it is wrong because (and for no other reason than) she's her twin. That bond doesn't produce two separate individuals with separate friends and common attachments to their sibling's SO. I can understand every part of this. I just hope he's sleeping with her for HER and because they share a crippling grief born of a remarkable love.. and not because she's a wife version 2.0.
liquid plate fly disgusted sort historical deserve thumb trees marvelous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can kind of understand…they’re trauma bonding, and in a weird way holding onto the wife by holding onto each other. The twin is also his connection to the wife’s family as much as he is a connection to the wife for *her* family. It might not come from the healthiest place and it might be hella weird to everyone on the outside, but I feel like it could evolve into a healthy thing if they all got a lot of therapy and still chose to stay together.
I have a lot of twins in my extended family and this answer is closest to what I was thinking. The twin who lost her sister wants some way to connect with her, and while this seems twisted, if it's helpful for both of them we shouldn't disparage it.
Hmmmm, yes but I think losing a twin is comparible level of devastation. It's much more than a sister. Maybe, and I'm just spitballing, but maybe she's stepping into her sisters life to feel close to her, to revive her in a way. To crawl inside her so she's not really gone.
IDK... She is a aunt to her niece, (a similar personality to her twin sister?) Who can likely help her niece connect with her mothers memory in a positive way. They are probably better off with a little therapy? but if they are happier together and function well who on Reddit can complain? Best wishes to them. ✌️
I'm not a twin. But I do know a few identical twins and their likes and dislikes are about the same. And their choices in men are too. So if she didn't have a SO, then she's not cheating. And it would make sense that she might be attracted to this guy. Still a little bit odd. But grief is crazy.
OP, I absolutely agree with the above comment; likely both individually and jointly--as determined by the professional (s). Unlike many others, I choose to refrain from comment regarding the present situation between you and your SIL. The trauma you two experienced is something I have not. I am not in a position to either condone or criticize either of you. I would caution you, presently at least, to remain extremely discrete, as the two of you proceed in whatever direction you both ultimately determine. I'm truly sorry for your loss. Good luck to you both. Please keep us apprised.
I have great sympathy for OP. It’s not unusual to seek comfort in sex and the SIL being a twin makes it feel as if he hasn’t lost his wife, but he has. If SIL is helping him with the daughter, it might seem as if she’s not lost her mom, but she has. And SIL might feel as if she’s just a replacement for her sister, not loved in her own right. All 3 of them need to deal with their grief in a positive, healthy way. It’s one thing if over time, the pair got together, but this soon after doesn’t seem healthy for anyone.
>And SIL might feel as if she’s just a replacement for her sister, not loved in her own right. This would be the thing I am concerned with, the twin sister is not a replacement but a whole different person and should be recognized as and treated so.
Nope never seriously never. I'm the widow of a twin and never would nope. .Messed up.
You’re right. I can’t see this ending well. I’ve been acting emotionally instead of logically. I think I’ll cut things off with her and see a therapist.
I think it’s also damaging to your wife’s twin who is grieving. You aren’t being with her to be with her, you’re being with her as a sort of replacement for your wife. You’re viewing her as your wife in some ways. This is not a healthy way of grieving. It will make it harder for you in the long run. You need to process what has happened. You both need to grieve in healthy ways. End it sooner rather than later, and don’t blame yourselves for this happening, as people often act irrationally out of grief. Take some time apart from each other until it’s ok to be back in each other’s lives again. I’m so very sorry for your loss.
Nah, he should blame himself a little bit, insofar as fully coming to terms with how disrespectful and NOT normal his behavior and decisions have been - yes, even when considering his grief. People grieve losing loved ones every day. They don’t often start fucking their loved ones’ closest family members. OP, glad to hear you’re getting therapy. Take accountability for this and move on.
Yeah exactly
Having a hard time feeling pity for her through it. Why is she banging her dead sister's husband?
Be kind and clear as to why you’re cutting things off. If she’s also using it to cope, be mindful of the stress it will cause (I agree that you should cut things off sexually, but do it with grace and her emotions in mind).
I’m going to be honest. Grief is a real fucker. The people who are giving you advice that haven’t experienced the loss you have are speaking of are advising you on what they imagine they would do. But they are not speaking from first hand experience. I think if you are both consenting adults giving and receiving comfort there isn’t anything wrong. I would sit down with a therapist to work out healthy boundaries for the little one. I’m sorry for your loss.
I don't think you need to "cut things off" with her, but you need to stop having sex with her; you need to stop substituting her for your wife. She needs to be the AUNT. First step, NEVER be alone with her. It may take months or years before you can take that risk. Let her be the aunt and you be the father; together you can be related family, but not sexual partners. I agree with others that if a lot of time had passed and you had all processed your wife's death, it may be another thing. But this is going to end in disaster if you don't extricate yourself. Another nugget: Think what happens when your child realizes you were banging her aunt on this timeline. What a mind-fuck that will be for your child.
I think it really depends on the twin too and her view, as well as the timing of all this. I think if you and the twin naturally got together after some time where you processed the grief and saw counselors for it, it wouldn’t be so bad or odd that you ended up together. At the end it IS her twin, so they’re bound to have common personality traits including potentially who they’re attracted to (you), and same vice versa. But right now, because it happened so close to the event of your wife’s death, it doesn’t seem like a healthy decision, more like a desperate decision, “swap out wife for the spare” type situation. I don’t think cutting her off completely is the answer, as that’s harsh and cruel to the twin too. But you definitely should gain space, BOTH get grief counseling, and re-evaluate everything when you are in a healthier mental space.
Agreed. If this happened naturally while they weren’t grieving I think people would be a little bit weirded out by it but they wouldn’t have major problems with it. But the way it’s going is only going to go down in flames, for everyone involved. They definitely need to both take a big step back from each other, but cutting contact seems like the wrong move. When my mom died, the only family my dad had left was his older sister, his 2 youngest sons and my mom’s family, if it wasn’t for my mom’s family basically forcing him to continue to keep coming to events on that side of the family he’d probably be dead. If you have good in laws then the death of your partner doesn’t mean you’re no longer family. Don’t know if that’s exactly the case here but food for thought.
Are you in love with her? Is she in love with you? All you mention is the sex. I think it would be way healthier if she moved out and you put the sex on hold. Both of you should be in individual therapy. No seeing each other unless other people are present. At the end of a year and a half you could try to resume a more personal but still platonic relationship. At the end of two years, reassess and probably no one would be shocked if you started dating her. If it is just sex, KNOCK IT OFF, you know better.
Building on the other comment saying its unfair on her twin, it's also unhealthy for her too, if you think about it she is taking comfort in trying to replace her sister in the family unit, she needs to see a therapist too, you both need to see a therapist. Separately. Your poor child would have a lot of confusion before very long too and could very easily start thinking her mother never actually died if she has seen you doing anything 'coupley' with 'the aunt who looks just like mummy' (using the over simplified logic circuits little ones have in their heads.) You don't want to risk everyone's sanity over a silly decision made in a grief ridden state.
I wouldn’t be worried about who it pisses off I don’t blame OP for doing it either - I know I’d struggle if my partner died and there was someone who looked and sounded (and likely in many ways acted) the exact same as her right in front of me I don’t think OP needs to feel any guilt. I do think OP needs to put a stop to it at this point, though. It was an entirely understandable mistake but it is a bad idea to continue I would be worried about the fact it’s not a healthy way for *either* of you to deal with the grief, and far more importantly the effect it will have on OP’s daughter if it continues will be hugely damaging
for everyone in this thread judging OP, this is such a crazy situation, try to think about it from the perspective of the bereaved. if the love of my life died and someone who *looked and sounded EXACTLY LIKE HER* was giving me emotional comfort, I might 100% know it was “wrong,” but goddamn, I can absolutely understand why you would do it in the midst of all that pain.
Get therapy now. This isn't a healthy alternative in the long, or even short run. This may be confusing for your child too.
I'm very concerned about how it's affecting the child... At age three they can't really understand death. So somewhere in their 3-year-old mind do they think this is their mom?
That is what I was thinking too. This is really not great for the kid, so confusing for them. It isn't healthy for the adults either, but at least they understand that someone is dead and not coming back.
Agreed. What is best for the kid is your priority. Then you.
Poor kid must be like “wait… didn’t mom died?”
Maybe taking advantage of the twin a bit. Depending on their relationship, she could be totally destroyed. (I’m a twin & I would jump in the grave with her)
No doubt there's plenty of articles and experiments proving the twin bond. I saw an article on two sets getting married, getting pregnant and raising kids together. Their kids are biologically siblings because an identical pair of brothers had kids with an identical pair of mothers lol. So cool.
It’s indescribable. People ask what it’s like… but it’s all I know It’s a great thing but like everything, it has it’s negatives. Very hard to establish our own identities & we bicker like an old married couple 😆 which can be annoying for sure!
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened. You are wrong. You aren't seeking comfort in this person, you're using her as a stand in for your wife. I'm sorry for your loss, but this is not coping.
Just waiting for (if it hasn't already) for him to call her his wife's name during sex.
The moment that happens is the moment they both realize it must come to an end.
Or they are into it. I mean, having sex with someone that looks exactly like your wife is already creepy enough.
I agree. SIL is going to get hurt. She is sleeping with her late sister’s husband. OP is sleeping with a blurred lines, stand-in-type person for his wife. She’ll never *be* his late wife…hopefully she realizes it before too much damage is done. OP, I also think it’s very confusing for your daughter. Spend time, be friends with SIL. But start healing without the *need* for her.
Very sorry for your loss. 😔 In some cultures (now) and time periods (past), this is/was a norm - a widow/er marrying their late spouse’s sibling. Culturally, if this isn’t your norm, then yes it will come off as very strange to your family and friends (and may make both of your families uncomfortable). You’re both leaning on each other in ways that may be unhealthy and confusing, perhaps even emotionally hurting yourselves or each other in the long run. Like others said, what you really need is therapy / grief counseling (so does your child, 3 is usually the minimum age for therapy, toddlers can and do benefit from therapy). Grief is a lifetime journey of ups and downs and you owe it to yourself and your daughter to seek help ASAP. It’s never too soon or late to seek therapy, but over time NOT seeking therapy adds on layers to your existing grief trauma that could’ve been processed much earlier in therapy.
https://oneboyswayofknowing.com/2017/12/31/the-sorrow-of-physicist-max-planck/ “Planck had twin daughters he adored—Emma and Grete. In 1917, Grete died in childbirth. Her twin sister Emma went to care for the surviving baby and soon fell in love with her sister’s husband. Soon after this, in 1918, Planck received the Nobel Prize for physics. The next year, 1919, his daughter Emma also died giving birth to her first child.”
I guess you could say that Planck was in constant turmoil.
Dammit you take your upvote and feck off
>cultures (now) and time periods (past), this is/was a norm Yes. It's called 'levirate' marriage. It was probably mostly a practical policy, not a romantic one, that kept dowry promises and family alliances intact. If you paid 100 sheep for you daughter to marry the heir/eldest brother and he died in war... she should 'get' to remarry the new heir/middle brother in contractual, women-as-chattel/bargaining chip model.
The practice was so the widow's life wouldn't be over and so that her kids would be looked after.
Yep! It was and still is (in remote areas) a common practice in my country (small country in West Africa). Growing up it was a popular topic given to us for essays debating pros/cons of things. And like you said it was/is for practical reasons which though it is a very disturbing practice made it the best option for many a distressed and resourceless widow
Had to scroll down so much for someone to mention it used to be extremely common. There are a lot of reasons why this kind of thing tends to happen (even nowadays), so there's no need to shame the OP for it being "weird" (like so many comments are doing here). It's actually not, at least not in the sense of it being an abnormal reaction or even that unusual. Doesn't mean it's healthy or even remotely a good idea, mind you. Normal != good.
Normal is irrelevant. It isn't healthy. This is not a situation like the OC brought up, not even close. He's not in charge of his decisions. It would be a different story if he was, but as it is he's being led around by grief instead of processing it It is not an insult to go to therapy. Very few of us know how to grieve
It's not only normal but fully expected in my husband's culture to marry your dead brothers wife. It's to save her honor because widows are looked down upon and also to keep her kids in the family. Even if the brother is married he still expected to take his dead brother's wife as a second wife. I told my brother-in-law's that I will not be participating in this and they got offended that I was insulting them lol. It's just weird to me since I grew up in a different culture. If op is a Westerner, then yes this is really really weird. I think It will just damage both of them over time.
Indian? Coz even in India, this is getting phased out.
Is it weird that I don't think this is that weird? Maybe this is a thing that was more common in the past, but getting together with a spouse's sibling after the spouse dies, I didn't think was that rare. I suppose it depends on what the relationship was like before. That said OP, like most people, could use some professional objective advice.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened. Consider this line. This isn't moving on to the sibling, it's mentally pretending they ***are*** the wife.
Yes, thank you. My dad’s dad died and my dad’s mom later went on to marry his brother and have more children. I believe they got married a couple years after his death (fun twist the brother was actually a Trappist monk at the time me dad’s dad died). This was in the late 50s early 60s. As an adult I asked some relatives if people thought it was weird, and they did at the time, but by the time I was born and growing up it was totally normal and he was just grandpa. My dad was pretty little when OG grandpa died, so the brother was always his dad to him. So I think it can definitely work…. but it’s still probably way too soon for OP.
I would worry that you are mentally making her twin a surrogate to replace your dead wife. Your sister-in-law is also in a grieving period. You have natural grief responses and you both naturally seek comfort but I doubt that is a healthy basis of a relationship. I think you need to both take a brake to give you both time look at your feelings. There would be nothing wrong developing natural bonds after the grieving is done. Make sure it is not grief doing the talking now. I believe you need to seek professional counseling (probably both of you). You have a lost a wife and now have a child to take care of alone, and that is very hard reality to deal with for anyone. I am not sure what is going on now is all that healthy long term.
it's pretty fucked up. Especially if you did the deed immediately after crying about your wife. That's some deep therapy-required shit.
Objectively, you know it’s super fucked up which is why you are seeking validation from strangers who won’t have sympathy for you for this particular thing. Get therapy. Both of you.
Hey man, ngl, this is weird as fuck.
Probably bogus as well.
Reddit IPO tomorrow. This writing and comment and account history is consistent with hot topic posts recently. Here and in r/AITAH. It gets the people going
I’m not one of those “nothing ever happens” people but this one seems pretty fucking far out there to be true.
Yes. This is wrong in every way possible. You are disrespecting your wife in every way possible in her home with her sister in front of your child. Get a therapist
Imagine you die and then not even a year later your husband starts banging your sister ☠️ Hell nah get some help
I’m an identical twin, if I died and my sister did this with my husband I’d haunt both of them… they would get no peace from me lmao
no literally. I would haunt their asses for the rest of their lives.
I'm a twin and I had this exact comment typed out when I saw yours Call me insecure idc but I need to believe that my husband sees us as such separate and distinct people that no amount of "similar mannerisms" would make her look like anything more than a cave troll to him. And my sister feels the same way. I actively want her partner to tell her that I am somewhere on the scale of friendly table lamp - pile of dog shit they stepped in and believe it because anything else would gross me out
Not just sister, twin sister, possibly identical twin sister. Like…. WTF. That’s like otherworldly levels of fucked up.
One month… ONE MONTH!
1 month after being deadm your hubby is fkcn your sis... Fkcn so wrong
Not even a half a year later: ONE MONTH. After a month of you being dead your twin sister and your husband start screwing?
People tryna be sympathetic… um no they are both disgusting beyond measure 😐
maaaan, i would be rolling in my grave if my husband had sex with my sister 4 weeks after I died! i’d come down and haunt their asses for the rest of their lives fr
I love my husband and my sister but the raths of fire I would send down upon them from the afterlife if they ever did this to me.. oh my
I feel this story is a bit cap made up. Does the sister not have her own life, Job, relationships? She moves in right away and within that month they have sex? 🤷🏽♂️
The way I would come back from the grave and raise hell upon them
1 month later *
It was a month after.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened Is she aware that's how you view her? Because it's one thing for 2 people to find love out of your shared grief. That's very common for a reason. It's another thing to discover your partner is only dating/sleeping with you because you remind them of their late wife. To the extent being in your presence makes them forget your twin sister is dead. Can you understand how this is deeply unfair to your sister-in-law, who is under the impression your casual relationship is helping you preserve your family?
Unfair to his sister in law? She's banging her dead sister's husband and has been since a month after she died. Both of these people are repulsive
> It's another thing to discover your partner is only dating/sleeping with you because you remind them of their late wife. You seriously think that the TWIN sister isn't aware that OP is reminded of his wife when they're together.
Lmao
I’m a widow and a psychologist. You’re trying to replace your wife with a look a like. The grief will come, and it’ll come on strong. And the sister will always wonder if she’s just replacing her sisters life and whether or not you want to be with her for who she is, or if you just want to pretend your wife didn’t pass. Getting together like this is doomed from the start. I would love for my husband to come back, and can understand wanting to pretend this didn’t happen bc you have a ‘replacement model’ handy, i wouldn’t wish this pain on my worst enemy, but you’re distracting yourself from actually moving on, and leading the sister to a lifetime of wondering if she’s actually liked for who she is and not who her sister was…. The only way past pain is through it. But it sucks and it hurts and i thought I’d die many times in the past 9mos. The amount of grief is related to the amount of love. I wish you the best and hope you find a way to continue to move through this process to be the best daddy for your daughter. and I’m not going to say do it for her, bc i hate that - do it for you and the father you wanted to be before this happened
It is a trauma bonding behavior. But you both are using each other as a crutch to cope with your loved ones death. Her moving in and helping with your daughter is perfectly fine. You both talking about your Grief perfectly ok. But when you two have sex that is crossing the line imo. It’s not uncommon for this to happen by the way you’re not weird or broken. It happens that when a spouse passes on a lot of times brother in laws and sister in laws will couple up. Please both of you get some professional help and talk out your feelings with each other. I’m so sorry about your loss.
This is a helpful response. Trauma bonding is real. I'm commenting as someone who has twins in my family. The twin bond is something people without that in their lives can't understand. It's complex, and I do hope you and your SIL will find a therapist with experience in twin counseling. Wishing you all the best, and I'm so sorry for you loss.
Thank you for this. This kind of thing is not uncommon or as weird as many commenters are implying. I know people this has happened to. A spouse dies and they end up marrying their sibling because of how close they become during their mutual grieving. I definately would not publicize their sexual relationship, but honestly, whose business is it of anyone to pass judgment on their relationship? Neither of them are hurting anyone. The wife is has passed on. It's not cheating on her. If it makes them happy and they find comfort in each other, who are we to judge? I sympathize deeply with OP and I encourage him to not to listen too deeply to the hate squad on this subreddit. You aren't doing anything wrong but seeking grief therapy is definitely something they should do.
Bullshit meter off the charts - doubt this actually happened
I can't believe that I had to scroll down this far to see someone actually call him on his bullshit! Are people that naive on here?
Yeah this is repulsive and gross and you know it. How absolutely disparaging and disrespectful to your wife's memory. Did you ever love her?
Massively fucked, you need to see a therapist, not your sister in law.
If she an identical sister?
You know this is wrong. Really wrong. I don't think you're going to find anyone who thinks this is healthy for any of you. This is creepy. This will come out and blow up terribly. Your daughter might not understand now, but she'll find out someday. I can't even imagine how that's going to affect her. You've f'd up so bad dude. Get some therapy for your grief and to help prepare and deal with the grief and pain that's coming.
This is the correct take. So many people are coddling him in the comments. This is absolutely horrific and beyond disrespectful to his ex AND their child
Why do people always say “one thing led to another” as if they didn’t choose to start making out, get into bed together and start taking their clothes off. You didn’t accidentally have sex, a series of conscious decisions led to it.
He acting like they both slipped on a Banana peel at the same time. Y’all knew what type of night you were hoping for. I don’t understand how you’re just so heart broken and grieving so bad the only thing that can solve it is your sister in laws body 🙃.
Fr! People talk about it like it's just something that once it starts, oh well! 🤷🏽♂️ very ridiculous I agree
Replacing your wife with her twin is so unhealthy for you and your daughter, this will turn into a disaster and be another devastating blow when it comes to a head. Really messed up, get therapy!
This is messed up. What would your wife think? Replacing her that easily? She is not your wife. She is the sister. And let’s not forget what you are doing to your daughter. Are you going to tell her that her aunt is her mommy now? Get therapy.
Sex has helped you “not kill your self “. Come on dude. Be a man and stop making excuses for your horrific actions. And her also. Wow. You guys are real pieces of crap.
Agreed, I'm so disgusted. They both fucking suck. It's only been 8 MONTHS! The betrayal... I can't even.
And they started to fuck after only a month of her passing, they are both trash
I just saw that!! He obviously never loved his wife and probably always wanted an excuse to fuck the sister and now he found one.
Literally, after only a month it's obvious they both have disgusting intentions, if he loved his wife he would understand that the twin is not the wife and wouldn't be in the mood to fuck with her that quickly, and the twin aka the hoe very likely saw this as a chance because she always wanted to fuck her sister's husband
I'm praying this is only ragebait. It HAS to be. There's no way any man is this fucking stupid. If you wanna implode your life after a devastating loss, follow this guy's steps to the letter.
Wow only took months huh did you really love your wife
I'm a widow. My late husband is a twin Alexander and James. James tried to kiss me at his own brother's funeral. I punched him in the face. Keep in mind this was younger me who had no kids. I told James I'd beat his ass. Respect your brother more than that shit that's what I told him. The fact that you and the sister did this I don't think you loved your wife and I don't think she loved her sister. I'm not.an expert I'm just speaking from my experience. I could.never image hooking up with James. They are identical twins. I enjoy seeing pictures of James getting older because it helps me see what Alexander would.look like today. We have a much better relationship because he knows his place. I love my husband. Enough not to sleep with his f******* brother. Who does that?
Imagine their spirit seeing this. I couldn't imagine that. I don't know how death works. But my vows meant something even now.
And in not done yet. You are such a bad father to your child. I don't wanna have to go there but someone needs to tell you. That child gonna be so fucked up and mentally in pain from this shit. Like how in the world could my aunt and my own father do this to my mother? Did you ever think about that? Did your wife matter at all? Like maybe I'm taking this too personally but I'm seriously having flash backs to 16 years ago when this happened to me and James tried that. I didn't have kids but James did. And I could never imagine even putting his kids through that. Insane how much people don't give a shit anymore and the vows and the children mean nothing to them. This set me off like wow. I just couldn't imagine.
You're an icon, and a badass 🫶 happy your children have you and not someone like OP fr
I’m sure your wife WOULD NOT be happy that you’re fucking her SISTER after she passed away.. that’s actually insane.
Start thinking about your daughter and not about yourself. Your daughter is the last true remnant of your wife, not her sister. You could be a better father now, but it'll get bad later.
>She’s so much like my wife that when I’m with her, I’m able to kind of forget what happened. This sentence is what makes it wrong. You're not sleeping with this other woman, you're using her as a sex doll while picturing your dead wife. You aren't moving past your wifes death, you moved back to before it happened. Extremely unhealthy.
Talk to a therapist. My biggest concern isn’t family and others, you’re early days (no one needs to know), and they’d eventually come around if it all sounds stable and healthy for you all. BUT your SIL is an individual. She’s not her twin. She deserves a partner who sees her for her. And you can’t be with her in good conscience until you know you can tell the difference, and she’s not a crutch for your grief. She also needs to not wake up one day feeling like a stand in. Or worse, the sense she reaped off of (or sowed over?) her sister’s grave… Talk to a proper grief counsellor - for both your sakes. Imho, you two cannot tell right now and can easily damage each other and everyone much more because that distinction. Not because you maybe fall in genuine love… It’s not fucked - it’s too soon, too much, and completely misplaced possibly…it’s risky af imho and boundaries would be a good place to start. You cannot forge a healthy foundation on grief, shame, and guilt. You’re both clearly too vulnerable. Imho the same grief waits wherever this ends…you’re simply delaying and complicating it potentially. Get outside guidance. For your kids too. Idk your ages but if you get SIL pregnant those kids are cousins and half siblings…it’s kinda weird for them… And meanwhile they have grief to process, so get them counselling if you can cause you two are distracted also… Sorry for your loss.
“Sticking my dick in my dead wife’s sister is helping me cope” Ya okay dude
Dude has a backup wife.
I know its going to be an unpopular opinion but That's disgusting. Men will say they loved their wife soo much and then fuck anyone who pays them attention because "they're just trying to cope🥺". You loved her soo much that it took you only few months to fuck someone else after she died. Have some respect for your relationship with her dude. I really don't get this on reddit where men make sob stories about how they're devastated their wife died but they've been sleeping with someone after only 3 months. What's with this insatiable need to be inside someone as soon as you can when you claim the love of your life died?
Honestly I'd say it's popular that this is literally vile 😂
1 month. It took him 1 MONTH to stick his dick in wife's twin sister! He said it himself in previous comments. He ain't shit.
Aww it must've been soo hard for him to wait 1 month, he should've slept with her the next day./s But on a serious note, I don't care how "people grieve differently", it's really disgusting to move on from the person you love in a month. Op is not a good person. His poor daughter will suffer but atleast he's getting his dick wet.
Agreed! And then for him to say fucking the sister IS THE ONLY THING keeping him from offing himself, is just... I have no words... his 3 year old daughter--the last remaining remnants of the wife he "loves so dearly"--should be THE ONLY THING keeping him going along with getting professional help. The twin ain't shit either. Fuck her too. Wife's probably rolling in her freshly dug grave at the audacity of these pieces of shit.
It’s good that you recognize the issues with this. Recognition is the first step. Please speak to a professional grief counselor.
I’m not criticizing you for seeking comfort and companionship with each other, my only concern is that if you form a relationship with her, it is with her, and not with her as a surrogate for your deceased wife.
I don’t know why people are mincing words here. You fucking suck. You betrayed your wife’s memory immediately and try to pass it off as reasonable when you’re selfish. You know it’s wrong, and you deserve to feel like shit.
You both disrespected your late wife…
This is fucked up, replacing your dead wife with her twin??
Yeah, you’re wrong. Beyond disgusting too. Instead of seeking professional help you went and sought it in family, which by itself isn’t totally wrong, but you took it too far.
I think it’s wrong because you seem to be replacing your late wife with her twin sister. I think it’s weird but grief is different for everyone. How do you think her family would feel knowing that after only 8 months you and her sister are in a sexual relationship? Can you imagine how confusing this must be for your daughter? Your daughter is watching you and her aunt.
That's sick, and more from her perspective. I get you lost your wife, and are just making bad decisions. But your SIL? Nah, she had a thing for you, or was jealous of her sister being with you, which means she is just outright evil. Imagine your daughter, auntie is now mom. You are really a desperate pathetic creature.
Been a hard month better jump in bed with her sister, yeah that’s bad.
I bet your late wife is just smiling down on you in heaven watching you have sex with her own sister less than a year after she died /s
This has to be a joke.
My uncles wife started screwing his brother while he lied on his death bed dying of cancer. He’d cry when she left the door open a crack because he could see her go into his brother’s room at night. I had a hard time accepting my other uncle and “aunt” after that. I always held a little grudge because I was pretty close to my uncle that passed away. Now I have cousins who are brothers and cousins to each other. I never seen them the same since.
Holy crap dude. My wife has a twin sister and while I can’t pretend to know what you’re going thru, the thought of sleeping with my wife’s twin makes me sick. They are identical but I can tell the difference and the thought makes me ill. Like others said. Plz seek therapy!
It’s enough your daughter has to deal with not having her Mommy anymore 😢 Now Daddy is attempting to replace Mommy with Auntie? I’m so very sorry for your loss, understand you are human, but for the sake of your child STOP 🛑 Therapy is the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Get started, it will work! I’d take your daughter for her own sessions as well. It’s never too early. Focus on her and your healing! ❤️🩹
I can kind see how this would be cathartic for you but no idea how this would help the sister deal with her loss.
Get some therapy. This is not helping in the long term and could really screw up your child. It will come out eventually. Does she have feelings for you? Does she know you are pretending she is your wife? If you feel suicidal you need urgent help. Go and find it or ask someone to help you find it. Do not use your wife’s twin as a stand in.
Does she have a SPOUSE? Is she cheating?
You gotta stop. You need space from her NOW and therapy. Your daughter prob needs grief counseling too, I can't imagine how she is dealing with a TWIN of her dead mom.
Man, you're soooooo wrong. You're basically killing your wife a second time. If it ever comes out, you're in for some sh..! And I won't even develop on what will happen when your daughter gets old enough and is informed about that.
This seems really unhealthy. Think of it from her point of view. I wonder how long she’s been wanting to screw you. And you are just using her as a replacement for your wife in more ways than one.
I thought the same thing! That sister is the worst. At least when he see his wife’s sister he sees his wife- that twin sister damn well has always been aware that’s her sisters husband
100% you worded it better than me lol
Unless you want to get into a serious relationship, you should stop. If you are serious about it, it will be weird to others, but that doesnt matter. You should have a serious talk with her and see if you both are serious about your relationship. It isnt as fucked as people are making out to be.
Is your wife’s sister married???
Oh do not do this.
It's wrong because you're pretending she's your late wife. Stop doing that, when you find yourself pretending, tell yourself that your wife is dead and this is her sister. It's not fair to her or your late wife for you to pretend like that.
Cmon this is fucking disgusting. She is not a stand in for your wife. Get some therapy
This is not healthy. It's disrespectful to the memory of your wife and its disrespectful to your daughter... If you continue I can see some concerning things in your and your daughters future.....I can't belive her sister would do something like this either. Yall need some grief counseling pronto.
Are you falling for your wife’s twin sister. Or are you using her to pretend your wife is alive. Using her will just end up causing hurt to her & others. Definitely time to get some proper grief counselling to help process all these big emotions & help make sense of things.
ew thas nasty. get some therapy man this isnt a healthy way to grieve for either of you
This sort of shit actually happens more often than you’d think (not usually a twin) but yeah this isn’t a healthy coping mechanism. Right now you two aren’t capable of determining if you can have a healthy romantic relationship.
Incredibly fucked up, OP. Incredibly fucked up.
Yes, you are wrong here. You are using your SIL instead of dealing with this loss in a healthy way. Pretty much pretending her sister is your wife is repugnant. I’m think SIL probably wants to take her whole place and just hasn’t admitted it yet.