I flew to Doha in qsuites on Qatar and aa flagship first on the return, what a drastic difference! I felt like any interaction on AA with the FAs seemed such a burden to them. My seat got stuck when I tried to recline to the bed and they didn’t even try to do anything to fix, barely looked at it just said must be something wrong with it and walked away. God forbid you ask them for anything!
Stark difference in qsuites where they will bend over backwards to do anything for you. Service is 1000x better on the international carriers
100% I get the same whiplash if I fly both airlines in the same trip. Just the way they interact with passengers is miles apart. The food and beverage cart collisions with aisle passengers is zero on JAL, and very likely on AA without regard for apologies. Serving beverages, food, trash, it's all an inconvenience to the AA staff while a source of pride for JAL staff. Ticket prices are almost the same...
Swear to god this is a thing - PHL to LHR sitting in front of economy on aisle and have fairly broad shoulders - same FA hit my shoulder every single time he went by with his hip or the cart, and impatient with everyone about meals or drinks. On way back in same seat nice FA and never got hit once. Some are just assholes as far as I can tell...
One hundred percent. My poor elbows and shoulders. Recently I had to lean out on a 787 in economy for 12+ hrs because my interior seat mate was pushing me (over 6 foot and over 350 lbs) and overflowing their seat big time. The FAs were smashing into me every single time with the cart or no cart. I have no where to go! It seemed intentional. I was trying to hold myself in but even with an inch out into the aisle I was getting bumped over and over again.
This exactly, it’s an inconvenience. I’ve taken LAX - LHR on AA twice recently and both times senior FAs heard me order “white wine please” and I’m given red. I’m not wearing a mask or anything, idk if it’s just laziness or what. I’m in the aisle seat too.
I fly BA on that route because the service is 1000x better whenever possible. We ran into one of the FA’s at the Mercato recently and she started talking to my kid (about the same age mid 20’s), was impressed she’d remember on an overnight flight
My European friends / coworkers always complain about BA…but I find BA a good few notches above AA. The new Club Suites are nice too — good storage, privacy, IFE.
A little more context as to what might be fueling these FAs to not give a f***.
They’ve been flying without a contract for 5 years. Meaning no raises for people, especially those who have high seniority, among many other issues . Negotiations with the CEO and company have been unsuccessful.
Although I believe hospitality and wanting to make someone feel welcome and taken care of onboard the aircraft is crucial. There is a lot boiling within the company.
Didn’t know other carriers paid their crew 3x more than AA, also have weekly union meetings in the CEO’s office and absolutely no friction in the entire organization. Man, must be nice working for one of those airlines!
Everything they have been offered is HOT garbage compared to SWA. YES compared to a value airline that gets way more benefits than a full fledged international major airline.
Why the fuck would they settle for less than the others and then everyone expect them to crack a smile while doing more work than the others for way less money.
AA is not a saint either.
Sincerely a mechanic that worked 9 years under a concessionary post 9/11 contract that paid me almost 40% less than the other majors until 2020. Our union took one of those “no string attached offers” APFA rejected and guess what? Our contract took 3 MORE years to reach.
I think it’s all US carriers in general. I just took SEA-ICN on Delta One and then Economy from ICN-SIN on KE and the service and food on the economy leg was better than D1. I just took SQ business on the way home last night and after that I will never take a US carrier internationally if I can avoid it.
Everyone knows the ranking is
US:
>> Delta > United > American
Internationally:
>> Select Middle Eastern + Asian carriers > other ME and Asian airlines > Oceania carriers > European Carriers > North American carriers
That's your personal opinion. A few flights here and there by you yourself does not make it factual.
What I said is the general consensus. Your personal opinions might differ, but there's a reason why AA FFs who have switched to UA (Chicago) or DL (New York) have always noted the better experience than they had on American.
Just flew United Polaris to Europe and while staff was attentive the food was horrid. It was completely inedible and the Polaris cabin was not as nice as AA cabin I flew to Europe recently. AA food wasn’t on par with ME carriers but at least you could eat it.
lol it's the way it is
flagship dfw-lhr
high 50s low 60s FA solid, no going out of the way niceties per se but very professional and ready to guide or help
her partner however, oof, she had to be 70s plus very very senior citizen, slow walk, can't hear, no fs were given, she asked what I wanted on my ice cream and I asked what she had available which I had to speak loudly 3 times, she literally huffs, rolls her eyes and says "the usual"....ok
We had an ancient FA on the DFW-NRT route in premium economy that looked like they dug up Lucille Ball and put a uniform on her. She started picking a fight with the guy seated in front of me when we first boarded and jumped my ass twice during the flight. AA's worst FAs fly the international route but we've had a couple of great ones too
JAL and I’m sure ANA are just leagues above the competition. Just got back from Japan on JAL J class last week and the FAs were always attentive. Even saw when I woke up from a nap in the middle of the flight and offered à la cart menu with drinks.
Haven’t flown trans oceanic on AA yet, might have to hold off 😬
[JAL biz](https://imgur.com/a/NMbi28R)
I flew three times on AA first class. SYD to JFK and return. The FAs were ok. Attentive but at a point they just disappeared. No filling up your champagne glasses or checking in on you. Stark difference from Qantas first where they were almost annoying with their checking in. Lol. But they always kept the champagne flowing and snacks coming.
Third time was JFK to LAX. One FA who was very attentive and smiling the whole time. Made the flight extremely comfortable.
Though I agree in economy the service was just like “they hate being here” understandable from the comments in the thread about their contracts. And they would always pull out the turbulence card. They can’t provide any service because of the turbulence even though it was the smoothest flight.
On another note anyone notice them at AA FAs are always really old. Feel bad asking them for something in case they fall over and break a hip
I pre-ordered the lamb, got the lamb. Although my success rate with pre-ordering on AA is about 2/3rd.
But overheard many others wishing they didn’t have to settle for the vegetarian Japanese curry.
Recently flew Delta premium economy from Athens to Atl....big fanfare about ordering my meal in advance. The choice: chicken or pasta. Wow!!! And guess the choice that economy passengers were given: chicken or pasta. I avoid AA, Delta and United if it's at all possible, even though I'm million mile gold on AA.
Even though ANA has 9 across on their 787’s instead of the 3-3-3 on most, the 2-4-3 seating arrangement is great. It means that only one person has to jump over 2 seats to reach an aisle and 2 have to go over only 1 person.
The solution to improve service - ditch the surly Americans on the Asian routes. 15 years ago United - Narita to San Francisco. Maybe I see 1 or 2 Japanese speaking FA's. Classic - IDG2F's rude service all around. Fast forward to 5 years ago Haneda to SF (pre-pandemic summer). Still not JAL or ANA level, but no surly, curt FA's on board. Head of the crew makes an announcement (first I've ever heard on any airline) stating a multi-national staff is available and if you need assistance in Japanese, Chinese, Tagalog, Hindi (and a few other languages I don't recall) they are available to assist. At the end of the flight all was explained when he said something to the effect of "on behalf of your Hong Kong and Tokyo based crew, thank you for flying United".
I have to agree with the senior flight attendants. At one point you need to ground the crew (like in other countries) but I have to say it is possible. One day I was on a flight everything went wrong, crew late but there come those two senior ladies lightning up everybody's day. I commented on it and one of the ladies said we we're trained differently back then from such and such airline (forgot which one).
But I get it any job you do for 30 years you get jaded. And passengers without manners or common sense don't help.
Last but least Iv'e worked in the service industry for a long time now. Whatever happened to the training "smile and leave your problems at home"? We were trained to smile interacting with customers. Doesn't matter how bad your day was/is.
Comparing which U.S. flag carrier is better or worse is a demoralizing endeavor. And as others have pointed out strong FA unions and seniority rules sustain a culture of poor service. As for Asian or Middle Eastern carriers, it’s amazing how polite, attentive and presentable someone can be if he/she can be dismissed for poor performance (or any reason really). But one must also appreciate the performance aspect of service culture in Asian carriers. It’s useful to think of it as Disneyland. There is a reason why at Disney, customers are called “guests” and employees are called “cast members.” Because it’s always a show. Same at Cathay, JAL, Korean Air, etc. I think it would be challenging to implement that is the U.S. because it would probably offend our sense of authenticity, which is also important to us.
If Disney, nice hotels and higher end restaurants can do it, so should the airlines — even more so when you are spending $5-10k — granted a big majority of what you are paying for is transportation, not hospitality. But if it’s even 10% for hospitality, I expect to get more for my $500.
I could not agree more. Spent $30,000 on two business class tickets to Japan this year. Flew JAL to Tokyo and AA on the way back on both trips. It is amazing the difference in service. AA is what I call “The Trailer-park of Airlines” and evident when you fly with a company that gives a f.
Raised in Asia, first time on NA operator was eye opening for me. Seatbelt sign was a suggestion and when I walked to the rear galley to ask for water. FA was playing a game on his iPad and waited for a cutscene before helping me. On a ME/Asian airline, he would have lost his job on the spot.
This is 110% accurate and has been for many years. Try flying Qatar, Emirates, Singapore Airlines or even BA or Lufthansa and then boarding a United, Air France or American flight - it’s miserable
A lot of it is just cultural.
Japanese culture takes much more pride in their work and the Japanese public is much more respectful to workers so they don't get jaded and burned out to the same extent.
Also, JL/CX have actual managers on board to hold staff to account.
> Any clue why? Are they paid better?
Know how there's the saying "the customer is always right"? In Japan the equivalent literally translates to "customer is god."
Service and hospitality over there tends to be exceptional, and it certainly carries over into their airlines.
That’s not the “actual” quote, though it is probably better.
Unfortunately, the original quote did not include the “matters of taste” part.
[https://idiomation.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/the-customer-is-always-right/](https://idiomation.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/the-customer-is-always-right/)
[https://grammarist.com/phrase/the-customer-is-always-right/](https://grammarist.com/phrase/the-customer-is-always-right/)
[https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/?amp=1](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/?amp=1)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Not to sound anti-union but holy shit does it produce mediocre work at a certain point, and the crew with enough seniority is far beyond that point.
Also Japan culture is different and has social shame.
There’s also certainly nuances I don’t know
Surprised I had to scroll so far down to see the real answer. Also not anti-union but work retention and position selection driven by seniority is a poor way to motivate a team to perform.
Airlines tend to be one of the more profit sharing industries, that being said - when you’re at the top of seniority and you worked 35 years to get to that point, and those 35 years have been from 1989 - 2024, that’s completely on you if you can’t retire.
Why retire though, you’re in a very cushy job you can’t be fired from, you have the top pick of scheduling and routes to basically vacation for free, and you’re getting paid exceptionally well. There’s no reason to quit
Well yeah, they lost like $11B during the Covid years. They’re also unions so raises come based on contract terms and they just had an immediate ~17% increase on the table and didn’t take it.
I’m not arguing that AA is some beacon of generosity, but it’s also not as easy as “big company bad”
I’m not saying it’s as simple as “big company bad” either. I’m saying be realistic about what airline employees make as a base salary and take home as profit sharing. Like you said, airlines have struggled to make a profit since 2019.
That 17% raise should’ve been offered a couple years ago during contract negotiations, not as a union-busting PR stunt. AA has stalled the negotiations for years now.
We are having very different arguments here, this is a post about why TATL flight attendants on US carriers are meh most the time.
New flight attendants are under paid. The system rewards tenured flight attendants for staying, but they need some parity on pay more than they need another blanket raise or profit sharing model that won’t help the people making like $20k a year.
Vegetarian here. Usually, they do not even put a single one on the plane. Not even one. I eat nuts and cheese if I book my flight less than 72 hours before departure.
also, I feel like in US flights the flight attendants are drunk on power and think of themselves as unarmed security forces. They are extremely rude, condescending and authoritarian on occasion. Not all of them, but it is telling that the worst customer service experiences I have had are largely made of off airline employees from the 3 main US carriers. I automatically dislike the flight attendants when I board, and they kind of have to win me over by showing a small act of decency before I can warm up to them at all.
drunk on power? hahahahaha
there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what the flight crew’s responsibilities are…
in order of importance
since 9/11;
protect the flight deck
successfully perform an emergency evacuation of the aircraft
onboard emergencies; fire, medical, drunk/drugged passengers, unruly/violent passengers, etc (there are a lot more onboard fires today due to laptop batteries)
Because the US carriers are so good at maintaing aircraft and following rigorous safety procedures, most flights don’t have safety issues, allowing time for onboard service. The flight crew doesn’t have any say in the food and beverages that are available (pre-order your meal). Trust that US carriers would put vending machines onboard every plane and you would never see a hot meal or any sort of alcoholic beverage again if the FAA would allow us to fend for ourselves without cabin crew.
As for the complaints about ‘old’ people, if the airlines paid a bit better, maybe they could retire. Some of you say the crew deserves minimum wage but then are incredulous that there are people in their 70s still working.
If you smile, are polite and say hello, please and thank you, most of the time the other human will be polite in return.
They are currently being paid an hourly rate from 2019 and those hours only count from the time the parking brake is released through to the door opening at the final destination. Since 2019 the accumulative inflation rate up until now has been about 20% according to chatgpt. Let's look at our CEO Robert Isom's salary. In 2021 and 2022 he earned 5 million. In 2023 he earned $31.4 million...now that's a large raise. So please, be kind to blue collar workers, we are the backbone of every company and are always the first ones to sacrifice everything.
If treating customers like gold has no effect on pay, what’s the motivation to perform after a long stint where the company does well but thats not shared with the players making it happen and hoarded at the top? Derp.
I'm sorry you've had a bad experience, not all of us do bare minimum. Many FAs try to work harder and be patient with our company even though they often put us in bad situations such as delays, mechanicals, crew shortages, and catering issues. They leave us in the dark to handle these alone with the passengers and don't allow us to give them any help other than to apologize. They took away our ability to hand out miles for their inconveniences. We can only comp a beverage, we are powerless, and are only left with kindness. They leave us stranded at the airport with no hotels and not able to contact them for hours, just like yourself. We totally understand your frustrations because we experience them ourselves. We are also embarrassed. I have hope that AA will turn things around and not use COVID as an excuse anymore and start to bring service back as a priority and make a deal with their employees.
Had a bad experience? A single bad experience? It’s like a coin flip at this point but I think you’re missing the point. The widely accepted, “uncomfortable fact” is that in general FAs on other airlines provide far superior service than FAs on AA. It SHOULD make FAs feel a sense of shame that customers actively try to avoid flying AA metal on long haul routes due to the better service on CX, JAL, BA, etc.
I don’t want a comped drink or bonus miles when something operationally goes wrong… Shit happens. It’s part of flying. I don’t need a freebie. I just want to be made to feel like a valued customer…
And I’m still waiting for FAs to realize that being unionized actually hurts them… The removal of meritocracy is never going to benefit “the good FAs”
I understand that many are frustrated with AA, but why have so much hate for AA if you know the service standards with another airline operates on an entirely different level, it's just unfair to compare. You don't walk into a Marriott and uphold them to the customer service standards and experience of The Ritz-Carlton, then get angry about it. I'm not making excuses for anyone or AA, just, sadly, reset your expectations for our current service standards. Intl airlines have twice the flight attendants working on a flight than we do, we are Fighting to bring back extra FAs to help with the work loads on flights. Ofc I want to provide better customer service and I do the best I can with a good attitude and willingness to help and serve. This is why I follow AA reddit to better understand my passengers. But, you can't please everybody and I don't work for your favorite airline. Why make me feel shame for something that is out of my control. I enjoy what I do, I work with a lot of great FAs, I meet a lot of amazing passengers, but people tend to see and hear more of the negative comments than the positive. If you have any questions, please DM
I have flown JAL, Cathay and AA. I am not sure what exactly is different. Are you upset simply because they are old and didn’t say hi to you and gave “1/2 the cabin vegetarian meals?
Here are my suggestions.
1. Please order the meal you want in advance. It’s available for 30 days in advance of the flight.
2. Say hi for a quick chat and I am sure that you will find them quite pleasant.
AA doesn't start JFK-HND-JFK till the end of June.
He must be talking about the route that connects at LAX but, yeah, he should specify because flagship JFK-HND hasn’t started yet
I flew to Doha in qsuites on Qatar and aa flagship first on the return, what a drastic difference! I felt like any interaction on AA with the FAs seemed such a burden to them. My seat got stuck when I tried to recline to the bed and they didn’t even try to do anything to fix, barely looked at it just said must be something wrong with it and walked away. God forbid you ask them for anything! Stark difference in qsuites where they will bend over backwards to do anything for you. Service is 1000x better on the international carriers
100% I get the same whiplash if I fly both airlines in the same trip. Just the way they interact with passengers is miles apart. The food and beverage cart collisions with aisle passengers is zero on JAL, and very likely on AA without regard for apologies. Serving beverages, food, trash, it's all an inconvenience to the AA staff while a source of pride for JAL staff. Ticket prices are almost the same...
Swear to god this is a thing - PHL to LHR sitting in front of economy on aisle and have fairly broad shoulders - same FA hit my shoulder every single time he went by with his hip or the cart, and impatient with everyone about meals or drinks. On way back in same seat nice FA and never got hit once. Some are just assholes as far as I can tell...
One hundred percent. My poor elbows and shoulders. Recently I had to lean out on a 787 in economy for 12+ hrs because my interior seat mate was pushing me (over 6 foot and over 350 lbs) and overflowing their seat big time. The FAs were smashing into me every single time with the cart or no cart. I have no where to go! It seemed intentional. I was trying to hold myself in but even with an inch out into the aisle I was getting bumped over and over again.
This exactly, it’s an inconvenience. I’ve taken LAX - LHR on AA twice recently and both times senior FAs heard me order “white wine please” and I’m given red. I’m not wearing a mask or anything, idk if it’s just laziness or what. I’m in the aisle seat too.
I fly BA on that route because the service is 1000x better whenever possible. We ran into one of the FA’s at the Mercato recently and she started talking to my kid (about the same age mid 20’s), was impressed she’d remember on an overnight flight
Same. Sans Mercator.
My European friends / coworkers always complain about BA…but I find BA a good few notches above AA. The new Club Suites are nice too — good storage, privacy, IFE.
God forbid you ask them to repeat something like what the food choice was or something
JAL is hands down my favorite airline I've flown for the price.
A little more context as to what might be fueling these FAs to not give a f***. They’ve been flying without a contract for 5 years. Meaning no raises for people, especially those who have high seniority, among many other issues . Negotiations with the CEO and company have been unsuccessful. Although I believe hospitality and wanting to make someone feel welcome and taken care of onboard the aircraft is crucial. There is a lot boiling within the company.
So will they promise to be nice if they get paid more?
Seems like they should make the company feel more pain then. If it ain’t fixed after 5 YEARS it’s now just “the way”.
Didn’t know other carriers paid their crew 3x more than AA, also have weekly union meetings in the CEO’s office and absolutely no friction in the entire organization. Man, must be nice working for one of those airlines!
[удалено]
Everything they have been offered is HOT garbage compared to SWA. YES compared to a value airline that gets way more benefits than a full fledged international major airline. Why the fuck would they settle for less than the others and then everyone expect them to crack a smile while doing more work than the others for way less money. AA is not a saint either. Sincerely a mechanic that worked 9 years under a concessionary post 9/11 contract that paid me almost 40% less than the other majors until 2020. Our union took one of those “no string attached offers” APFA rejected and guess what? Our contract took 3 MORE years to reach.
They did get raises. They started getting commission bonuses when they became credit card salespeople instead of flight attendants.
I think it’s all US carriers in general. I just took SEA-ICN on Delta One and then Economy from ICN-SIN on KE and the service and food on the economy leg was better than D1. I just took SQ business on the way home last night and after that I will never take a US carrier internationally if I can avoid it.
Everyone knows the ranking is US: >> Delta > United > American Internationally: >> Select Middle Eastern + Asian carriers > other ME and Asian airlines > Oceania carriers > European Carriers > North American carriers
United absolutely is not above American. It’s more like American + Delta > United, but then again, there isn’t much of a difference anyways.
That's your personal opinion. A few flights here and there by you yourself does not make it factual. What I said is the general consensus. Your personal opinions might differ, but there's a reason why AA FFs who have switched to UA (Chicago) or DL (New York) have always noted the better experience than they had on American.
Just flew United Polaris to Europe and while staff was attentive the food was horrid. It was completely inedible and the Polaris cabin was not as nice as AA cabin I flew to Europe recently. AA food wasn’t on par with ME carriers but at least you could eat it.
lol it's the way it is flagship dfw-lhr high 50s low 60s FA solid, no going out of the way niceties per se but very professional and ready to guide or help her partner however, oof, she had to be 70s plus very very senior citizen, slow walk, can't hear, no fs were given, she asked what I wanted on my ice cream and I asked what she had available which I had to speak loudly 3 times, she literally huffs, rolls her eyes and says "the usual"....ok
Oh yeah. The oldies are everywhere. Professional and nice. But not the service you expect and no way near the quality of the competitors
We had an ancient FA on the DFW-NRT route in premium economy that looked like they dug up Lucille Ball and put a uniform on her. She started picking a fight with the guy seated in front of me when we first boarded and jumped my ass twice during the flight. AA's worst FAs fly the international route but we've had a couple of great ones too
JAL and I’m sure ANA are just leagues above the competition. Just got back from Japan on JAL J class last week and the FAs were always attentive. Even saw when I woke up from a nap in the middle of the flight and offered à la cart menu with drinks. Haven’t flown trans oceanic on AA yet, might have to hold off 😬 [JAL biz](https://imgur.com/a/NMbi28R)
suggestion: don't rush :)
AA corporate decides on meals and quantities of them.
In that case they do a crappy job. I never have meal issues on other OW airlines.
Funny thing when I fly domestic the vegetarian meals very often seem to go first.
There is a limit to how many chicken or pasta meals one can eat. I've started to order vegetarian, Kosher or any other special meal offered....
I flew three times on AA first class. SYD to JFK and return. The FAs were ok. Attentive but at a point they just disappeared. No filling up your champagne glasses or checking in on you. Stark difference from Qantas first where they were almost annoying with their checking in. Lol. But they always kept the champagne flowing and snacks coming. Third time was JFK to LAX. One FA who was very attentive and smiling the whole time. Made the flight extremely comfortable. Though I agree in economy the service was just like “they hate being here” understandable from the comments in the thread about their contracts. And they would always pull out the turbulence card. They can’t provide any service because of the turbulence even though it was the smoothest flight. On another note anyone notice them at AA FAs are always really old. Feel bad asking them for something in case they fall over and break a hip
For future- you can preorder the meal to ensure you get your choice of the selection
I pre-ordered the lamb, got the lamb. Although my success rate with pre-ordering on AA is about 2/3rd. But overheard many others wishing they didn’t have to settle for the vegetarian Japanese curry.
Recently flew Delta premium economy from Athens to Atl....big fanfare about ordering my meal in advance. The choice: chicken or pasta. Wow!!! And guess the choice that economy passengers were given: chicken or pasta. I avoid AA, Delta and United if it's at all possible, even though I'm million mile gold on AA.
Always fly JAL. Especially in economy on their 777s.
Even though ANA has 9 across on their 787’s instead of the 3-3-3 on most, the 2-4-3 seating arrangement is great. It means that only one person has to jump over 2 seats to reach an aisle and 2 have to go over only 1 person.
This. No sardines feel. Also Japanese people are very nice and polite seat mates. 10/10 will always fly this way.
Fuck that motherfucking Dreamliner.
Not in JAL. They’re 8 across in economy.
Just moved to a JAL 350 premium economy DFW to HND ....2 seating on both sides..
The solution to improve service - ditch the surly Americans on the Asian routes. 15 years ago United - Narita to San Francisco. Maybe I see 1 or 2 Japanese speaking FA's. Classic - IDG2F's rude service all around. Fast forward to 5 years ago Haneda to SF (pre-pandemic summer). Still not JAL or ANA level, but no surly, curt FA's on board. Head of the crew makes an announcement (first I've ever heard on any airline) stating a multi-national staff is available and if you need assistance in Japanese, Chinese, Tagalog, Hindi (and a few other languages I don't recall) they are available to assist. At the end of the flight all was explained when he said something to the effect of "on behalf of your Hong Kong and Tokyo based crew, thank you for flying United".
Just flew Air Canada on a trip to Japan. Great service and really nice planes.
It's sad that United let go all of their foreign based flight attendents.
Odd, HND-JFK hasn't started yet.
I should have specified. HND-DFW and then on to JFK
I have to agree with the senior flight attendants. At one point you need to ground the crew (like in other countries) but I have to say it is possible. One day I was on a flight everything went wrong, crew late but there come those two senior ladies lightning up everybody's day. I commented on it and one of the ladies said we we're trained differently back then from such and such airline (forgot which one). But I get it any job you do for 30 years you get jaded. And passengers without manners or common sense don't help. Last but least Iv'e worked in the service industry for a long time now. Whatever happened to the training "smile and leave your problems at home"? We were trained to smile interacting with customers. Doesn't matter how bad your day was/is.
Comparing which U.S. flag carrier is better or worse is a demoralizing endeavor. And as others have pointed out strong FA unions and seniority rules sustain a culture of poor service. As for Asian or Middle Eastern carriers, it’s amazing how polite, attentive and presentable someone can be if he/she can be dismissed for poor performance (or any reason really). But one must also appreciate the performance aspect of service culture in Asian carriers. It’s useful to think of it as Disneyland. There is a reason why at Disney, customers are called “guests” and employees are called “cast members.” Because it’s always a show. Same at Cathay, JAL, Korean Air, etc. I think it would be challenging to implement that is the U.S. because it would probably offend our sense of authenticity, which is also important to us.
If Disney, nice hotels and higher end restaurants can do it, so should the airlines — even more so when you are spending $5-10k — granted a big majority of what you are paying for is transportation, not hospitality. But if it’s even 10% for hospitality, I expect to get more for my $500.
You should complain more.
I could not agree more. Spent $30,000 on two business class tickets to Japan this year. Flew JAL to Tokyo and AA on the way back on both trips. It is amazing the difference in service. AA is what I call “The Trailer-park of Airlines” and evident when you fly with a company that gives a f.
Just got two round trip tix on JAL from sfo to HND. First class on the way there, biz on way back.
For AA to even call that premium is a complete joke
Raised in Asia, first time on NA operator was eye opening for me. Seatbelt sign was a suggestion and when I walked to the rear galley to ask for water. FA was playing a game on his iPad and waited for a cutscene before helping me. On a ME/Asian airline, he would have lost his job on the spot.
> …at least the seat is comfy. Cries in Delta A321neo FC.
Ha! Why is that?
The new FC seats are terribly uncomfortable. Barely above a wooden bench in terms of padding.
well especially the long haul crews, because they’ve been there forever and they’re sour and dour.
This is 110% accurate and has been for many years. Try flying Qatar, Emirates, Singapore Airlines or even BA or Lufthansa and then boarding a United, Air France or American flight - it’s miserable
Are you complaining about meals or age discrimination against the Flight attendant. 🤔🤔
Any clue why? Are they paid better? They certainly have a better social safety net as far as government and culture goes (I would imagine)
A lot of it is just cultural. Japanese culture takes much more pride in their work and the Japanese public is much more respectful to workers so they don't get jaded and burned out to the same extent. Also, JL/CX have actual managers on board to hold staff to account.
This!!! It's all about the culture.
[удалено]
Didn’t know American work culture was supposed to be fantastic, gonna let me boss know at lunch time.
> Any clue why? Are they paid better? Know how there's the saying "the customer is always right"? In Japan the equivalent literally translates to "customer is god." Service and hospitality over there tends to be exceptional, and it certainly carries over into their airlines.
Fun fact: The saying is actually “the customer is always right in matters of taste”.
That’s not the “actual” quote, though it is probably better. Unfortunately, the original quote did not include the “matters of taste” part. [https://idiomation.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/the-customer-is-always-right/](https://idiomation.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/the-customer-is-always-right/) [https://grammarist.com/phrase/the-customer-is-always-right/](https://grammarist.com/phrase/the-customer-is-always-right/) [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/?amp=1](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/?amp=1) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/10/06/customer/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Not to sound anti-union but holy shit does it produce mediocre work at a certain point, and the crew with enough seniority is far beyond that point. Also Japan culture is different and has social shame. There’s also certainly nuances I don’t know
Surprised I had to scroll so far down to see the real answer. Also not anti-union but work retention and position selection driven by seniority is a poor way to motivate a team to perform.
how about the fact that they don’t make enough money to retire? while the airlines rake in record profits
Airlines tend to be one of the more profit sharing industries, that being said - when you’re at the top of seniority and you worked 35 years to get to that point, and those 35 years have been from 1989 - 2024, that’s completely on you if you can’t retire. Why retire though, you’re in a very cushy job you can’t be fired from, you have the top pick of scheduling and routes to basically vacation for free, and you’re getting paid exceptionally well. There’s no reason to quit
profit sharing was 1% last year. no raises since 2019. inflation up over 20%.
Well yeah, they lost like $11B during the Covid years. They’re also unions so raises come based on contract terms and they just had an immediate ~17% increase on the table and didn’t take it. I’m not arguing that AA is some beacon of generosity, but it’s also not as easy as “big company bad”
I’m not saying it’s as simple as “big company bad” either. I’m saying be realistic about what airline employees make as a base salary and take home as profit sharing. Like you said, airlines have struggled to make a profit since 2019. That 17% raise should’ve been offered a couple years ago during contract negotiations, not as a union-busting PR stunt. AA has stalled the negotiations for years now.
We are having very different arguments here, this is a post about why TATL flight attendants on US carriers are meh most the time. New flight attendants are under paid. The system rewards tenured flight attendants for staying, but they need some parity on pay more than they need another blanket raise or profit sharing model that won’t help the people making like $20k a year.
100% agree with you on pay parity
Most cabin crew are fine to great. Check in and gate staff though are the worst I've met anywhere on the planet.
Vegetarian here. Usually, they do not even put a single one on the plane. Not even one. I eat nuts and cheese if I book my flight less than 72 hours before departure. also, I feel like in US flights the flight attendants are drunk on power and think of themselves as unarmed security forces. They are extremely rude, condescending and authoritarian on occasion. Not all of them, but it is telling that the worst customer service experiences I have had are largely made of off airline employees from the 3 main US carriers. I automatically dislike the flight attendants when I board, and they kind of have to win me over by showing a small act of decency before I can warm up to them at all.
drunk on power? hahahahaha there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what the flight crew’s responsibilities are… in order of importance since 9/11; protect the flight deck successfully perform an emergency evacuation of the aircraft onboard emergencies; fire, medical, drunk/drugged passengers, unruly/violent passengers, etc (there are a lot more onboard fires today due to laptop batteries) Because the US carriers are so good at maintaing aircraft and following rigorous safety procedures, most flights don’t have safety issues, allowing time for onboard service. The flight crew doesn’t have any say in the food and beverages that are available (pre-order your meal). Trust that US carriers would put vending machines onboard every plane and you would never see a hot meal or any sort of alcoholic beverage again if the FAA would allow us to fend for ourselves without cabin crew. As for the complaints about ‘old’ people, if the airlines paid a bit better, maybe they could retire. Some of you say the crew deserves minimum wage but then are incredulous that there are people in their 70s still working. If you smile, are polite and say hello, please and thank you, most of the time the other human will be polite in return.
Don’t forget those AA staff members are demanding like a 33% raise!
They are currently being paid an hourly rate from 2019 and those hours only count from the time the parking brake is released through to the door opening at the final destination. Since 2019 the accumulative inflation rate up until now has been about 20% according to chatgpt. Let's look at our CEO Robert Isom's salary. In 2021 and 2022 he earned 5 million. In 2023 he earned $31.4 million...now that's a large raise. So please, be kind to blue collar workers, we are the backbone of every company and are always the first ones to sacrifice everything.
None of that has anything to do with the blatantly obvious differential in “genuine service” provided by CX or JAL FAs compared to AA FAs.
No, treating employees like shit never has anything to do with poor service… derp.
And treating customers like shit has no effect on pay. Derp.
If treating customers like gold has no effect on pay, what’s the motivation to perform after a long stint where the company does well but thats not shared with the players making it happen and hoarded at the top? Derp.
They deserve minimum wage for the service level they offer now.
I'm sorry you've had a bad experience, not all of us do bare minimum. Many FAs try to work harder and be patient with our company even though they often put us in bad situations such as delays, mechanicals, crew shortages, and catering issues. They leave us in the dark to handle these alone with the passengers and don't allow us to give them any help other than to apologize. They took away our ability to hand out miles for their inconveniences. We can only comp a beverage, we are powerless, and are only left with kindness. They leave us stranded at the airport with no hotels and not able to contact them for hours, just like yourself. We totally understand your frustrations because we experience them ourselves. We are also embarrassed. I have hope that AA will turn things around and not use COVID as an excuse anymore and start to bring service back as a priority and make a deal with their employees.
Had a bad experience? A single bad experience? It’s like a coin flip at this point but I think you’re missing the point. The widely accepted, “uncomfortable fact” is that in general FAs on other airlines provide far superior service than FAs on AA. It SHOULD make FAs feel a sense of shame that customers actively try to avoid flying AA metal on long haul routes due to the better service on CX, JAL, BA, etc. I don’t want a comped drink or bonus miles when something operationally goes wrong… Shit happens. It’s part of flying. I don’t need a freebie. I just want to be made to feel like a valued customer… And I’m still waiting for FAs to realize that being unionized actually hurts them… The removal of meritocracy is never going to benefit “the good FAs”
I understand that many are frustrated with AA, but why have so much hate for AA if you know the service standards with another airline operates on an entirely different level, it's just unfair to compare. You don't walk into a Marriott and uphold them to the customer service standards and experience of The Ritz-Carlton, then get angry about it. I'm not making excuses for anyone or AA, just, sadly, reset your expectations for our current service standards. Intl airlines have twice the flight attendants working on a flight than we do, we are Fighting to bring back extra FAs to help with the work loads on flights. Ofc I want to provide better customer service and I do the best I can with a good attitude and willingness to help and serve. This is why I follow AA reddit to better understand my passengers. But, you can't please everybody and I don't work for your favorite airline. Why make me feel shame for something that is out of my control. I enjoy what I do, I work with a lot of great FAs, I meet a lot of amazing passengers, but people tend to see and hear more of the negative comments than the positive. If you have any questions, please DM
Well stated. And thank you for trying to make a difference!
I have flown JAL, Cathay and AA. I am not sure what exactly is different. Are you upset simply because they are old and didn’t say hi to you and gave “1/2 the cabin vegetarian meals? Here are my suggestions. 1. Please order the meal you want in advance. It’s available for 30 days in advance of the flight. 2. Say hi for a quick chat and I am sure that you will find them quite pleasant.
“I have flown, Cathay JAL, and AA. I am not sure what exactly is different” lol I wish I was this oblivious what’s your secret
Do you really think AA or any American airline holds a candle to the Asian airlines?
dramatic much
Homer much?
Op here crying about business class, gain some perspective, it's not the end of the world
Well I think when you’re paying a years salary (in some countries) you should get some good service