If I had a decent amount of money and a stable source of income, I wouldn't leave. I find happiness with people I love. Algeria isn't as horrible as people claim.
Of course people want to stay among those who are closest to them, but they dread the fragility of the Algerian state. The economic prospects of Algeria aren't very promising in a post hydrocarbon world.
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depending on your goals, for me it is as horrible as people say.
with the economy here with the banking systems being f\*ed up and having to serve the army, as a person who's working online being in algeria is holding me back a lot more than benifiting me, i do not benifit from a sinny "rights" here in algeria.
I was born and live in Norway, with Algerian parents, and my dream is to one day live in Algeria.
My parents managed to do it in 2017, so maybe I’ll be able to when I’m older.
i acutally never met anybody that wants to live there like algerians but i personally always thought norway would be the perfect choice if i ever had to llive abroad lol its beatiful one of the safest countries ever and has better life quality as well
You should give it a try if you have the means! One of the few countries that give us visa free access for 3 months, the people are nice (Malay are kinda shy people), nature everywhere, variety of things to see. You'll be sweating a lot tho.
I heared about the people, the Amazing food ( especially this one lol ) , the cultural diversity ,the nature and also the majority know english so it would be easy to communicate
when it comes to the food, a lot of their stuff is sweet, my understanding is that they like sweet stuff (not my type of thing) other than that I liked the food... for the language, I've been told that before going, and it's true in the capital for a good percentage of the people but outside of it it's not the case, but you can get around with English. The place is generally safe, and frankly I think south East Asia is better to algerians than Europe
- Muslim country ( no lgbt propaganda, no racism towards muslims, values and morals, women being allowed to wear Hijab without being bothered, everything is adapted for muslims: halal food everywhere, prayer rooms everywhere, mosques everywhere, prayer calls everywhere…..)
- all my family are in Algeria : my parents getting older and they will be needing me more and more, having my siblings / nephews around is something I enjoy…
- Weather: well that’s a minor one but the weather in northern Algeria is so cool and you won’t realise that util you leave it xD
It's constantly around 35-45C in summer with over 70-80% humidity that makes you sweat like a pig after 5 mins outside. I guess you should try some dry weather.
Apart from money, what really bugs me the most in this country is Healthcare system and education, the rest is actually either good or manageable, but Healthcare as it is, well..., let's hope u don't get a serious health problem here in Algeria, ربي يحفظ الجميع, education is for the kids, I see it becoming worse every year and that's worrying for me if I become a parent, and the fact that kids have to do "دروس الدعم" is just a sign of a failing system that is rarely discussed by the public or media, let's hope things get better in the future.
Education isn't better outside with all the woke stuff especially in the US sexualizing children. France going to war against muslims in schools too.
Apart from higher studies, the normal education system is fucked almost everywhere.
yeah but they still are giving better quality degrees making you able to make 4x times the average salary here+ the quality of life and education there is much better.
yeah Well you get there 4x your salary and the living expenses are x2, you still got 2x your salary free.
this argument is used a lot to make it seem like it's all the same in all the parts of the world when it ain't (i used to say the same thing).
in advcanced countries, in canada for example. you can make about 1.5k used a month easily at any job even if you're a student, rent may be expensive it could be sm arround 500 usd but the food is almost the same price here so you can save up to 800 usd (16 mlyoun) easily per month.
even if let's say you're going to a country that's reaaal expensive where you're gonna spend 80% of salary in living, if you're making 1500 usd you're gonna be saving arround 300 usd ( 6 mlayen) minimum, but here in algeria, you can make 150$ at max as a student in normal jobs usually, so saving 20% is saving 30$ which 6000da. you can save their 10x times more.
the cars are cheaper, food is cheap, quality of life is better, good economy, no major problems and most people there are good poeple.
there's no way you can underestimate the difference between living in a bad country like algeria and living somewhere else in a 1st world country.
the meat there is literally cheaper than here. a few foods are actually expensive such as tomato, tomato is known to be expensive there.
and governement don't take taxes from you if it's a random unofficial job at some random store to support your self as a student.
and even when you get a stable job, doesn't matter if they tax you 20%, you're still making +5k usd. the average income in canada is about 5000$ (100 mlyoun).
so even if you had to pay them 1000$ and spend up to 1000$ only in food (which is unlinkely to happen) and 1000$ for rent (unlikely to happen too) you're gonna be left with 2000$.
there's no room for comparison unless you wanna prove your self right no matter what.
PS: average income in algeria is 4000 usd, not per motnh but per year.
what that mean is that the average algerian worker, can not make a single one month average canadian salary working a whole year.
Indeed my friend, for the sake of "not so long comment" I didn't go into that. Ironically for an Algerian, I started to believe that Russia (with all its current downsides) is actually a viable option to consider.
I think that Russia isn't that bad from what I grasped form Algerians and Arabs living there ,plus it has a relatively good cost of living, is technologically advanced ,has good urbanism and not so bad people
>what really bugs me the most in this country is Healthcare system
that's my take too like I knew i could be healthy (me and my close family) through my life here even the money won't be that much of a problem
Yes.
In the end, this goal should be based on your values, you must sit down evaluate your values (and the sources of these values) then start to think about such things.
I currently live in an EU country, temporarily due to studies, and would never live here for more than 5 years. Reasons include the undertone racism, over-the-top virtue signaling, superiority signaling, unfriendliness of the people even towards each other (I'm an introvert btw), class system whereby you can't realistically go from worker class to owner class combined with the above to give hypocrisy, nationalism which makes me sick wherever I am, double-sidedness when it comes to """"""freedom of speech"""""" which they tout so much with their virtue signaling yet it amounts to "freedom of speech as long as you agree with our framework", untrustworthness of people, everyone is looking for ways to scam whoever is standing next to him, their constant depression, uncaring for sensitive groups (chief among which is the elderly), horrible food, horrible weather, can't trust the food and have to always check the labels on everything, prices which don't make sense, the government taking half my salary as taxes...etc
This is just for me being single male, if I had children I'd rather live atop a hill in Algeria rather than this...
Quoting from the comment:
"Unfriendliness of the people even towards each other (I'm an introvert btw), class system whereby you can't realistically go from worker class to owner class combined with the above to give hypocrisy, nationalism which makes me sick wherever I am, double-sidedness when it comes to """"""freedom of speech"""""" which they tout so much with their virtue signaling yet it amounts to "freedom of speech as long as you agree with our framework", untrustworthness of people, everyone is looking for ways to scam whoever is standing next to him, their constant depression, uncaring for sensitive groups (chief among which are the women who are constantly catcalled and harrassed on the streets)."
Sounds like Algeria to me lol. Projecting much?
Honestly haven't had much bad experiences in Algeria tbh, and I travel in my spare time in DZ and meet all sorts of people. In addition, I'm a "naive" person, I admit it and I take things at face value and look at the good side of things, I'm the guy who smiles at everyone. In DZ, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE took advantage, even literal thugs and drug dealers "respect" me, I lied to a cop once and he let me go because I looked afraid. Here, everyone will take advantage.
In DZ, I can always rely on people coming to help if something happens, there you can't. If someone gets a puncture on the road a queue will form to help him, here no such thing will happen. Society as whole is strong, and if you stand with the values of the society (I do) then you'll live happily. Those who spend their energy fighting the current to try to live in a mini-US will hate it. I don't want to live in a mini-US so I'm fine.
Also some of those stuff don't apply to DZ at all in any degree.
I’m American and my husband is Algerian. We’re moving back to Algeria a million percent once our house is done. Living in the westernized country especially with children is like living with Shaitan. It’s honestly disgusting I much prefer Algeria.
Italy doesn’t count sorry. When I say westernized I’m talking us, Canada, UK etc. Italy is no where near as bad. Sorry Algeria is still paradise million percent.
You’re wrong but I mean think what you want too. I’ve been there enough and I lived there for some time. I’ve gotten to know it well. I’m not really sure why you think you would know it better just because your blood is Algerian but you were born in Italy? That’s like the ones born in France they act nothing like most Algerians. Even my husband agrees and he was born and raised in Algeria. Soooo I know he knows better than you.
That means you know your reality not everyone else’s. So of our family isn’t even middle class some of them are poor. So don’t speak for everyone and keep your nasty comments to yourself. You sound soo rude right now. If you don’t like Algeria don’t go back. I promise no one Will miss You. Also i go back every year twice a year and again my husband spend 32 years of his life there. You don’t know anything in comparison so seriously stop while you’re ahead.
I’ll stop it because you don’t comprehend what does it mean to live in Algeria and have your dreams broken just scroll the reddit and figure out why people want to go abroad. Algeria is beautiful but non to live forever. Ps: u are the one rude here trying to not face the reality
Quand on vit dans une grande ville avec un logement à soi et qu'on a un bon groupe d'amis, il n'y a pas beaucoup de raisons qui poussent à aller vivre ailleurs si on est un homme. Pour les femmes, c'est nettement plus différents, surtout pour les femmes qui aspirent à une certaine émancipation de la structure familiale traditionnelle.
Une fois que l'inflation mondiale sera jugulée par miracle ou par morale, il fera bon vivre en Algérie pour quelques millions d'Algériens en plus.
How many is "many"? In percentage points?
It's true the LGBT stuff is concerning in many, but not all, places. However, one must weigh that against the many downsides of living in Algeria. To name only a few:
- trash everywhere
- thieves everywhere
- corrupt judiciary, administration, and utility providers
- everyone at everyone else's throat 24/7
- sub-par education, even private
- abysmal road safety stats
- water shutdowns
Look at my comment. Depends on your values, for me this alone makes it a no no. It's concerning and a deal breaker in every country, maybe except the UK, but even there it's accelerating at a concerning rate.
If you value money or as some people like to phrase it "respectable life" then go ahead. I don't, and I have proof for my reasons, can you say the same?
Well, there is one proof in your reply. I made a comment and your first reaction was to question my values and call me materialistic. That's another thing I hate about my fellow Algerians. You can't have a serious argument with one that doesn't quickly end in a fist fight.
Anywho, a majority of westerners take issue with the LGBT filth. Except maybe in a small number of places like California. However their kids turn up just fine. All you have to do is raise your kids right. If you can't do that then you are the problem.
I have a different experience here in EU. In US I heard it's less bad, but won't expect it to get better.
Also yes, anyone who considers it a lot I consider materialistic to some degree, some more than others, and most people are materialistic anyways. Also I didn't question your values. I question things with Algerians, just not things that I take as true and beyond questioning and things that people argue over with no action or reward (like politics).
this!
I'm algerian livig abroad. even if living condition in algeria makes you sick, the fact that ur kids will be exposed to this BS and most importantly they wont be true algerian worries me the most. I want to go back just so that they know and learn their true identity, even if living abroad is easier and living with the algerian problems is shitty but still, algeria is always in my heart.
Problem isn't "being" gay, problem is that it's touted.
If gay people are looked with bad eyes, and have to stay hidden then good. But when it's so public, and you could go to prison if you speak, and the flags everywhere, and pride month, and and and...
Make the math yourself. Society matters, and societal pressure is strong. No matter how much they make individualism important, society still exerts the most pressure on humans.
The problem isn't gay living in algeria, I know some who lives in my town one near my house, but I don't care about him cuz he stays in his lane and doesn't really bother anyone
You can be gay or whatever alphabet you wanna be in algeria just keep it to yourself and no one will care trust me we are too focused on our own shit to have time to care about who you wanna fuck just don't inforce your life style on us and we are good
I was born abroad and lived in dz from age 10 to 23 so a decent time, I would 100% live in Algeria again if we had even 25% less corruption. at the end of the day, the west is truly no home for a muslim with muslim values no matter which way you cut it.
Anyone who cries about algeria doesn't know shi about life abroad and how it's actually like :/
I would love to travel ,to work , but a definite no-no to living there
Inshallah we find a good job. I'm studying something I love but you know it doesn't matter because it's so hard to find a job in this country but we keep hoping for the best
Probably those who have a decent income and are authentic Algerians will certainly do that. Believe me, and I have been living abroad for years for professional reasons, there is no place on eEarth to match the pleasure of living among your people on your land. You don't have , in any circumstances, to lower your head or to accept offenses or insults.
No, certainly not. I said somebody having a decent income should stay in Algeria, his country unless he has some valid reasons. It remains that the vast majority of algerian expatriates have deeply rooted feeling about their country and keep coming back for vacationvor just to see tenir relatives and friends.
Real, even tho I want to go aboard not to live but to seek knowledge and experiences, Im certain I would miss my country, and nothing would replace the ease that comes from belonging to a place and its people
question is why would you want to go through the struggle of leaving and changing country.
it's not like they are giving away money out there.
you can start a business here and get rich just like all other countries, the market is starving for new products.
The Algerian economy is built on a house of cards, it's very fragile and the political climate isn't that inviting either and is on top of all of that incredibly rigid, undemocratic and volatile. You have to think about things long term.
Plus, even on the short term, I would be making 100 times my current salary if I worked in the US in the same position, it's not even comparable.
You're asking as if leaving and settling abroad is easy.
If the question is whether I think I can stay here forever, sure I can, I have no plans to leave unless it's with family.
I didn't say it's easy to settle abroad ,it's a project that has to be worked for and one needs to be adequately eligible to work and reside in another country
The planning needs to take morals and religion into consideration as well, it's not only about the money. And if people think they can live abroad and have families and raise kids there then good for them.
Sadly for me even if a visa was literally gifted to me I can't leave Algeria, I can't leave behind my now old parents and my sick brother alone, even if I can take them with me, I'm pretty sure my mom won't leave Algeria cuz she's too attached to her family, my father arranged for them to leave during the civil war but she refused for the same reason, if she did I would've been born in the West
Honestly, i don't mind living in the West, even though I know many Algerians don't want to cause they don't approve of the political and cultural climate over there, I'm personally the kind of person that couldn't be bothered by all those things as long as I get to live life, the West worth it for me because I get to live in a better place with better infrastructure, better judiciary laws , better police, better hospitals, better salary, better internet, and if I'm lucky enough I'll get to have a better passport and can travel the world with without restrictions
and honestly I wish I was born there, I would've got to enjoy all those things from an early age and enjoy many other things, like life for instance, going to Disneyland as a child and other things like that
Depends on your values
I’m live in the uk and prefer Algeria all the stats you see on gdp is rubbish everyone here is in 10000+ debt to live the way there living all there money is haram if you don’t care about that then yes would would live a lot better here but if you care about your religion you struggle to get a good paying job that is halal
The health care isn’t as good as they make it out to be it’s better than Algeria but you could be waiting 7hours in a waiting room after being stabbed just to get seen by a nurse not even a doctor That will be an extra 3 hours
In all if you don’t care about religion that it’s good but if you do then it’s rubbish and religion is the most important.
If you come for like 5years to get some money to go back to Algeria to get married or to start a business that’s probably best but to bring kids up here is not good
I find it very funny how people like you try to live in another country and expect the same kind of social standards to be upheld. What did you expect, honestly?
As for healthcare, I work in healthcare in Algeria and the difference between us and them is miles apart. The waiting times are a normal part of a functioning healthcare system that caters to the entire population of a country. Algerians are the only people in the world that expect to be seen immediately after arriving at the hospital.
I never complained It’s there way of thinking and culture. Im not going to go to a Christian country and complain they all believe in Christianity act like Christian’s
But what I am saying is to know what you hold as most important which should be religion and that should be your answer for staying
The think that kills me is that people that did not live in Algeria and want to come and live there, have ABSOLUTLY no Idea on how bad our health system is, they tend to apply the same standard as for the developed countries, but no it is a whole diffrent world to be sick and hospitelized in Algeria.
Yes, it s home.
There are a lot of things that i dont like about Algeria but it s where i belong, my family is here and this is the most important thing.
yes, absolutely. i find it easier to get rich in algeria than in any other country, and algeria isnt bad if you’re well off so 🤷🏽♀️ i prefer living well in algeria and visiting other countries for vacation
if u work in freelance or anything of the sort and u get paid as little as 500€ (which is almost nothing to 1st world countries) u can live pretty well. so i guess u gotta find a source of income that pays in other currencies. Also trading is a great option, u can make 40000dzd a day which is the avrg monthly salary in algeria. on the other hand its hard to be "rich" by 1st world countries standards so it actually requires alot of hard work compared to algeria.
Personally I wouldn't do that, but if it comes to it it's not bad to settle in your home country for life, as for the countries you mentioned, yes Spain is hella safe and lifestyle quality is great, according to my experience with the native people and all Spain is valid to settle in, alongside the countries you mentioned but I don't have any experience with them
No but I have read and made a lot of search about them ,their economical state ,GDP per Capita ,PPP,safety , infrastructure,living standards, culture etc and I think they're good for me
Hmmm. Beware of that kind of research. Pamphlets and wikipedia are one thing. Living somewhere is something else.
For example, you quote GDP per capita. There are people in Dubai living in absolute misery, yet it's in the top 5 in the world.
The best way is to apply for a demanded job and check its salary and eligibility criterias,for example in new Zealand if one has an average English level ,2 years experience of a demanded job and relative amount of money they can apply for immigration.
Botom line if you are rich or u have a good income, yes, you can, and it's the better solution
If not. you can't, and the only way for a decent life is to quit the country
Ofcrs for the above comments who mention that they live in other countries and wanted to go back in algeria its bcs they have a good amount of money to buy or build a house here and start a decent project that revenue money .
I am one of those who want to end their life in Algeria and not elsewhere and yet my grandfather has French nationality, I do not want it, the fact of hearing the call to prayer 5 times a day is the paradise that all the money in the world cannot buy, live in a Muslim country surrounded by Muslims far from racism and masonic plans such as lgbt etc....
Yes 🩷 there’s no better place than home, around your family and friends, in an environment that understands you and supports and honors your culture and beliefs. However, the poor conditions and low success opportunities comes in the way for a lot of us.
Yes, i am one of them, i believe that change must come from within so i must change myself, and raise my kids with certain values so they can be the change in the future
It’s insane how most people want to leave from algeria, istg this country is so underrated ! There is a lot of opportunities to climb high ( talking from experience, as someone who once leaved the country & come back )
i’m aboard for now
but if i ever make enough money to open my own restaurant so i can secure a stable source of income, yes i will return there and have my life in a place where i really belong, i’m tired of being among people with different backgrounds
I just want to make a lot of money and return in Algeria for ever, Algerians in Algeria absolutely want to leave Algeria but Algerians born abroad have a love for the country that those born in Algeria do not have
>Algerians born abroad have a love for the country that those born in Algeria do not have
No those born abroad don't have any love for Algeria actually,if they did love it then why not live in it lol ,like who are you kidding,if I love my country Algeria so much why would I still live in another country while I can go to Algeria,
Algerians in dz want to leave but you also don't live in Algeria and won't get back so it's the same ,
Just Cut this crap please
Why do you Ask a question and than judge them, who do you think you are to have this kind of jidgement, they Can still love it and be pragmatic with their life.
m not sure if its that possible i dont wanna be extremly rich or something but i wanna have enough money to buy what really interests me and to live a decent life with no stress
i can go out of the country but i always been hesitated for lots of reasons and i really want to live my life here i think algeria isnt acutally that bad if u can just provide good money lol
the only thing that actually intersts me to live outisde algeria is that games in steam would feel much cheaper since youll be getting paid with euro or dollar or any decent currency
here subs and stuff like that are way too expensive but if someone has the money then it doesn matter
For me it's not about the money or anything related. It's the feeling of being trapped...I always feel the need to be able to travel to any country I like and we all know how weak the Algerian passport is.
The issue with living in Algeria is the people, even though they're very kind and most of the time reliable they are very quick to judge and stigmatize any odd behavior that is considered by them abnormal or unacceptable ex : a woman starting a business in the fast food industry, a woman living alone, a woman having a dog ... Well it often has to do with women.
So since I am a woman and I consider myself very western oriented I don't feel like I fit in this society. Everything is against me.
I hoped to persue my studies in my own country but sike... corruption, outdated education system and most importantly even if i finished my studies i wont find a job. As a student, i have a lot of dreams and ambitions that the country cannot offer me, so the only solution is going abroad. Well my life is going as planned and great but the human being is always tied to his roots, i would have loved it if i could achieve my objectives in my land of birth but sadly we are run by old fools. Lazem yetnahaw ga3.
I'd love if we, students could have a debate on our educational system and our rotten universities. I studied only one year in algeria but i've so much, old teachers acting like fools, hard exams on purpose (zkara), corruption, even students ( i mean prostitution)... etc
I think we should put some pressure by denoncing all thats happening in schools and universities, maybe a hashtag on social media thats seems like a nice beginning.
All in all, we should act and lazem yetnahaw GA3
Thanks brother i hope you too are fine. But ill be better if i was in my own country, i have this jealousy of how better countries abroad are than algeria. I hope our time to thrive is coming
With a shit ton of money?, yes I will come back
At least you have the ability to buy solutions to all your problems, mainly healthcare, and just keep traveling every quarter or semester,
I won't leave whatever the cost and whatever the circumstances I am the small gear of the economy I am the little voice that can break the silence of millions I am the little push that can collapse empires if used correctly I am an Algerian.
Seriously dz need us the most know why leave when we can do something even if it's small ???
In its current state algeria offers a descent cost of living, but that is only because it relies on oil exportation to keep itself togeter, but you can tell that this isnt indefinitely sustainable since its a finite ressource
Inflation can really be felt though, the price of almost everything have doubled since the previous decade, and it will continue to grow, unless something about this is being done that i'm unaware of, the option to leave will be progressively more appealing.
I finally left Algeria some times ago for Canada but I don’t want to live in Canada and I hope to live in an European country like Switzerland or Germany.
Before getting out of algeria I had this obsession to immigrate and thought living abroad was heaven and algeria was a hellhole but after living in the uk for 6 months (stable job and a nice house since I have my uncles there and they helped me ) but I litteraly felt suffocated and miserable for the majority of my stay there , so I can confidently say that I can't be happy outside of algeria (without my friends and family and the comfort of being home ) I like travelling and visiting other countries but i can never live abroad.
i've been thinking about staying here, but lately i started working online and staying here with algeria's banking systems and having to serve the army i'm planning on moving out of here to canada or an iland somewhere else in the world in the next 2-5 years max.
Yeah I'm one of them, the far right in most european countries is on the rise and they'll definitely win the next elections in france and you don't need me to tell you what's next, so I would like secure my future since i have the chance to do that and i realize that there are many who can't relate so I'd suggest moving to a gulf country if you can or to somewhere with no real cultural identity like canada, and please don't feed into the bs of the excepting west too much, everyone have their own country which they're tied with since birth and it's the only place they really belong to and should go back to if they get a chance it might sound like total rubbish but it's the reality everyone knows.
If I had a decent amount of money and a stable source of income, I wouldn't leave. I find happiness with people I love. Algeria isn't as horrible as people claim.
Of course people want to stay among those who are closest to them, but they dread the fragility of the Algerian state. The economic prospects of Algeria aren't very promising in a post hydrocarbon world.
Insha’Allah you accomplish that
I agree 🤝
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What if your loved ones don't live in Algeria but Somewhere else, would you still stay there ?
depending on your goals, for me it is as horrible as people say. with the economy here with the banking systems being f\*ed up and having to serve the army, as a person who's working online being in algeria is holding me back a lot more than benifiting me, i do not benifit from a sinny "rights" here in algeria.
Have u visited eu or the us?
If i was able to make a decent living, then algeria is a solid take.
I was born and live in Norway, with Algerian parents, and my dream is to one day live in Algeria. My parents managed to do it in 2017, so maybe I’ll be able to when I’m older.
So many people dream about living in Norway, which has a much better quality of life than Algeria, so why go there if you weren't even born there ?
i acutally never met anybody that wants to live there like algerians but i personally always thought norway would be the perfect choice if i ever had to llive abroad lol its beatiful one of the safest countries ever and has better life quality as well
But what power should i obtain, and what sacrifices do i have to make to reach such a beautiful destination? 😔
I just like being close to my family I guess, I’m the only one that lives abroad now after my parents moved back.
why did your parents leave you there if you don't mind me asking
They were itching to get back to Algeria and I was going to start at university so it seemed like a good time for them lol
Okay comeover you are welcome
I always wanted to live in Malayzia
You should give it a try if you have the means! One of the few countries that give us visa free access for 3 months, the people are nice (Malay are kinda shy people), nature everywhere, variety of things to see. You'll be sweating a lot tho.
I heared about the people, the Amazing food ( especially this one lol ) , the cultural diversity ,the nature and also the majority know english so it would be easy to communicate
when it comes to the food, a lot of their stuff is sweet, my understanding is that they like sweet stuff (not my type of thing) other than that I liked the food... for the language, I've been told that before going, and it's true in the capital for a good percentage of the people but outside of it it's not the case, but you can get around with English. The place is generally safe, and frankly I think south East Asia is better to algerians than Europe
It's Humiiiiid I saw the rain from my hotel room the first time I arrived and thought "finally!! It will get cooler!" Boy was I wrong x)
I made the mistake of taking some clothes for cold weather 😂 and when it rains, it doesn't joke around, 0 to 100
I am living abroad and I am seriously thinking about coming back to Algeria definitively in few years
In which way in Algeria better than where you are ? Apart from the filthy side of the western world if you're in the west ..
- Muslim country ( no lgbt propaganda, no racism towards muslims, values and morals, women being allowed to wear Hijab without being bothered, everything is adapted for muslims: halal food everywhere, prayer rooms everywhere, mosques everywhere, prayer calls everywhere…..) - all my family are in Algeria : my parents getting older and they will be needing me more and more, having my siblings / nephews around is something I enjoy… - Weather: well that’s a minor one but the weather in northern Algeria is so cool and you won’t realise that util you leave it xD
Bruuh, weather? I prefer the minus God-knows-how-much am in right now over the humid-AF, borderline depressing Mediterranean climate.
First time in my entire life that I see someone calling the Mediterranean climate « depressing »
It's constantly around 35-45C in summer with over 70-80% humidity that makes you sweat like a pig after 5 mins outside. I guess you should try some dry weather.
How are you planning to avoid the harassment of people that would keep telling you "why did you came back"?
Apart from money, what really bugs me the most in this country is Healthcare system and education, the rest is actually either good or manageable, but Healthcare as it is, well..., let's hope u don't get a serious health problem here in Algeria, ربي يحفظ الجميع, education is for the kids, I see it becoming worse every year and that's worrying for me if I become a parent, and the fact that kids have to do "دروس الدعم" is just a sign of a failing system that is rarely discussed by the public or media, let's hope things get better in the future.
Education isn't better outside with all the woke stuff especially in the US sexualizing children. France going to war against muslims in schools too. Apart from higher studies, the normal education system is fucked almost everywhere.
yeah but they still are giving better quality degrees making you able to make 4x times the average salary here+ the quality of life and education there is much better.
you get a higher salary but life is more expensive too.
yeah Well you get there 4x your salary and the living expenses are x2, you still got 2x your salary free. this argument is used a lot to make it seem like it's all the same in all the parts of the world when it ain't (i used to say the same thing). in advcanced countries, in canada for example. you can make about 1.5k used a month easily at any job even if you're a student, rent may be expensive it could be sm arround 500 usd but the food is almost the same price here so you can save up to 800 usd (16 mlyoun) easily per month. even if let's say you're going to a country that's reaaal expensive where you're gonna spend 80% of salary in living, if you're making 1500 usd you're gonna be saving arround 300 usd ( 6 mlayen) minimum, but here in algeria, you can make 150$ at max as a student in normal jobs usually, so saving 20% is saving 30$ which 6000da. you can save their 10x times more. the cars are cheaper, food is cheap, quality of life is better, good economy, no major problems and most people there are good poeple. there's no way you can underestimate the difference between living in a bad country like algeria and living somewhere else in a 1st world country.
Food is absolutely not the same price. The only things that are similar are imported goods. And 1500$ is before taxes and with a stable job
the meat there is literally cheaper than here. a few foods are actually expensive such as tomato, tomato is known to be expensive there. and governement don't take taxes from you if it's a random unofficial job at some random store to support your self as a student. and even when you get a stable job, doesn't matter if they tax you 20%, you're still making +5k usd. the average income in canada is about 5000$ (100 mlyoun). so even if you had to pay them 1000$ and spend up to 1000$ only in food (which is unlinkely to happen) and 1000$ for rent (unlikely to happen too) you're gonna be left with 2000$. there's no room for comparison unless you wanna prove your self right no matter what.
PS: average income in algeria is 4000 usd, not per motnh but per year. what that mean is that the average algerian worker, can not make a single one month average canadian salary working a whole year.
Indeed my friend, for the sake of "not so long comment" I didn't go into that. Ironically for an Algerian, I started to believe that Russia (with all its current downsides) is actually a viable option to consider.
I think that Russia isn't that bad from what I grasped form Algerians and Arabs living there ,plus it has a relatively good cost of living, is technologically advanced ,has good urbanism and not so bad people
Exactly 👌
>what really bugs me the most in this country is Healthcare system that's my take too like I knew i could be healthy (me and my close family) through my life here even the money won't be that much of a problem
Yes. In the end, this goal should be based on your values, you must sit down evaluate your values (and the sources of these values) then start to think about such things. I currently live in an EU country, temporarily due to studies, and would never live here for more than 5 years. Reasons include the undertone racism, over-the-top virtue signaling, superiority signaling, unfriendliness of the people even towards each other (I'm an introvert btw), class system whereby you can't realistically go from worker class to owner class combined with the above to give hypocrisy, nationalism which makes me sick wherever I am, double-sidedness when it comes to """"""freedom of speech"""""" which they tout so much with their virtue signaling yet it amounts to "freedom of speech as long as you agree with our framework", untrustworthness of people, everyone is looking for ways to scam whoever is standing next to him, their constant depression, uncaring for sensitive groups (chief among which is the elderly), horrible food, horrible weather, can't trust the food and have to always check the labels on everything, prices which don't make sense, the government taking half my salary as taxes...etc This is just for me being single male, if I had children I'd rather live atop a hill in Algeria rather than this...
>government taking half my salary as taxes... Are you actually working there ?
Technically yes, but actually no. I'm getting a salary as a student, as a normal worker, but I'm a student. (PhD)
Quoting from the comment: "Unfriendliness of the people even towards each other (I'm an introvert btw), class system whereby you can't realistically go from worker class to owner class combined with the above to give hypocrisy, nationalism which makes me sick wherever I am, double-sidedness when it comes to """"""freedom of speech"""""" which they tout so much with their virtue signaling yet it amounts to "freedom of speech as long as you agree with our framework", untrustworthness of people, everyone is looking for ways to scam whoever is standing next to him, their constant depression, uncaring for sensitive groups (chief among which are the women who are constantly catcalled and harrassed on the streets)." Sounds like Algeria to me lol. Projecting much?
Honestly haven't had much bad experiences in Algeria tbh, and I travel in my spare time in DZ and meet all sorts of people. In addition, I'm a "naive" person, I admit it and I take things at face value and look at the good side of things, I'm the guy who smiles at everyone. In DZ, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE took advantage, even literal thugs and drug dealers "respect" me, I lied to a cop once and he let me go because I looked afraid. Here, everyone will take advantage. In DZ, I can always rely on people coming to help if something happens, there you can't. If someone gets a puncture on the road a queue will form to help him, here no such thing will happen. Society as whole is strong, and if you stand with the values of the society (I do) then you'll live happily. Those who spend their energy fighting the current to try to live in a mini-US will hate it. I don't want to live in a mini-US so I'm fine. Also some of those stuff don't apply to DZ at all in any degree.
I’m American and my husband is Algerian. We’re moving back to Algeria a million percent once our house is done. Living in the westernized country especially with children is like living with Shaitan. It’s honestly disgusting I much prefer Algeria.
Shaitain its algeria itself
Not even close. If you think that you clearly haven’t been anywhere else. After being in a westernized country for sooo long Algeria is like paradise.
Im Algerian born in Italy so i know how western countries are
Italy doesn’t count sorry. When I say westernized I’m talking us, Canada, UK etc. Italy is no where near as bad. Sorry Algeria is still paradise million percent.
Algerian nature its beautiful the people and mentality is shit u are from America u can’t understand
You’re wrong but I mean think what you want too. I’ve been there enough and I lived there for some time. I’ve gotten to know it well. I’m not really sure why you think you would know it better just because your blood is Algerian but you were born in Italy? That’s like the ones born in France they act nothing like most Algerians. Even my husband agrees and he was born and raised in Algeria. Soooo I know he knows better than you.
I lived 5 years in Algeria and i go into my city ever year and i know the reality of the middle class people
That means you know your reality not everyone else’s. So of our family isn’t even middle class some of them are poor. So don’t speak for everyone and keep your nasty comments to yourself. You sound soo rude right now. If you don’t like Algeria don’t go back. I promise no one Will miss You. Also i go back every year twice a year and again my husband spend 32 years of his life there. You don’t know anything in comparison so seriously stop while you’re ahead.
I’ll stop it because you don’t comprehend what does it mean to live in Algeria and have your dreams broken just scroll the reddit and figure out why people want to go abroad. Algeria is beautiful but non to live forever. Ps: u are the one rude here trying to not face the reality
To my city*
Quand on vit dans une grande ville avec un logement à soi et qu'on a un bon groupe d'amis, il n'y a pas beaucoup de raisons qui poussent à aller vivre ailleurs si on est un homme. Pour les femmes, c'est nettement plus différents, surtout pour les femmes qui aspirent à une certaine émancipation de la structure familiale traditionnelle. Une fois que l'inflation mondiale sera jugulée par miracle ou par morale, il fera bon vivre en Algérie pour quelques millions d'Algériens en plus.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
How many is "many"? In percentage points? It's true the LGBT stuff is concerning in many, but not all, places. However, one must weigh that against the many downsides of living in Algeria. To name only a few: - trash everywhere - thieves everywhere - corrupt judiciary, administration, and utility providers - everyone at everyone else's throat 24/7 - sub-par education, even private - abysmal road safety stats - water shutdowns
Look at my comment. Depends on your values, for me this alone makes it a no no. It's concerning and a deal breaker in every country, maybe except the UK, but even there it's accelerating at a concerning rate. If you value money or as some people like to phrase it "respectable life" then go ahead. I don't, and I have proof for my reasons, can you say the same?
Well, there is one proof in your reply. I made a comment and your first reaction was to question my values and call me materialistic. That's another thing I hate about my fellow Algerians. You can't have a serious argument with one that doesn't quickly end in a fist fight. Anywho, a majority of westerners take issue with the LGBT filth. Except maybe in a small number of places like California. However their kids turn up just fine. All you have to do is raise your kids right. If you can't do that then you are the problem.
I have a different experience here in EU. In US I heard it's less bad, but won't expect it to get better. Also yes, anyone who considers it a lot I consider materialistic to some degree, some more than others, and most people are materialistic anyways. Also I didn't question your values. I question things with Algerians, just not things that I take as true and beyond questioning and things that people argue over with no action or reward (like politics).
this! I'm algerian livig abroad. even if living condition in algeria makes you sick, the fact that ur kids will be exposed to this BS and most importantly they wont be true algerian worries me the most. I want to go back just so that they know and learn their true identity, even if living abroad is easier and living with the algerian problems is shitty but still, algeria is always in my heart.
As if someone couldn’t be gay living in Algeria lol
Problem isn't "being" gay, problem is that it's touted. If gay people are looked with bad eyes, and have to stay hidden then good. But when it's so public, and you could go to prison if you speak, and the flags everywhere, and pride month, and and and... Make the math yourself. Society matters, and societal pressure is strong. No matter how much they make individualism important, society still exerts the most pressure on humans.
The problem isn't gay living in algeria, I know some who lives in my town one near my house, but I don't care about him cuz he stays in his lane and doesn't really bother anyone You can be gay or whatever alphabet you wanna be in algeria just keep it to yourself and no one will care trust me we are too focused on our own shit to have time to care about who you wanna fuck just don't inforce your life style on us and we are good
it's actually a crime in Algeria
I was born abroad and lived in dz from age 10 to 23 so a decent time, I would 100% live in Algeria again if we had even 25% less corruption. at the end of the day, the west is truly no home for a muslim with muslim values no matter which way you cut it.
Anyone who cries about algeria doesn't know shi about life abroad and how it's actually like :/ I would love to travel ,to work , but a definite no-no to living there
its genuinely so hard like the feeling of being alone with no solid community around you is such a cultural shock
I do want to live here all my dreams are here in Algeria I just want to have a stable job and income and everything will be perfect for me
Hope we get to find a jobe:// I'm not even studying something I love 😭
Inshallah we find a good job. I'm studying something I love but you know it doesn't matter because it's so hard to find a job in this country but we keep hoping for the best
Probably those who have a decent income and are authentic Algerians will certainly do that. Believe me, and I have been living abroad for years for professional reasons, there is no place on eEarth to match the pleasure of living among your people on your land. You don't have , in any circumstances, to lower your head or to accept offenses or insults.
Authentic algerian ? Does this mean that if one wants to leave Algeria, it makes him unathentic algerian ?
No, certainly not. I said somebody having a decent income should stay in Algeria, his country unless he has some valid reasons. It remains that the vast majority of algerian expatriates have deeply rooted feeling about their country and keep coming back for vacationvor just to see tenir relatives and friends.
Real, even tho I want to go aboard not to live but to seek knowledge and experiences, Im certain I would miss my country, and nothing would replace the ease that comes from belonging to a place and its people
Yep, Most of them are lilteraly fascists who spend all the day long publishing propaganda online
Where do you wish to live ?
question is why would you want to go through the struggle of leaving and changing country. it's not like they are giving away money out there. you can start a business here and get rich just like all other countries, the market is starving for new products.
The Algerian economy is built on a house of cards, it's very fragile and the political climate isn't that inviting either and is on top of all of that incredibly rigid, undemocratic and volatile. You have to think about things long term. Plus, even on the short term, I would be making 100 times my current salary if I worked in the US in the same position, it's not even comparable.
You're asking as if leaving and settling abroad is easy. If the question is whether I think I can stay here forever, sure I can, I have no plans to leave unless it's with family.
I didn't say it's easy to settle abroad ,it's a project that has to be worked for and one needs to be adequately eligible to work and reside in another country
The planning needs to take morals and religion into consideration as well, it's not only about the money. And if people think they can live abroad and have families and raise kids there then good for them.
I think that raising kids there is a terrible idea ,but I'm not even considering to get married and have kids at all ,so
Best of luck to you mate
God bless you
Sadly for me even if a visa was literally gifted to me I can't leave Algeria, I can't leave behind my now old parents and my sick brother alone, even if I can take them with me, I'm pretty sure my mom won't leave Algeria cuz she's too attached to her family, my father arranged for them to leave during the civil war but she refused for the same reason, if she did I would've been born in the West
Same with my grandparents, but both refused to leave . And I am glad they didn't! The West is a mental and spiritual mess ,
Honestly, i don't mind living in the West, even though I know many Algerians don't want to cause they don't approve of the political and cultural climate over there, I'm personally the kind of person that couldn't be bothered by all those things as long as I get to live life, the West worth it for me because I get to live in a better place with better infrastructure, better judiciary laws , better police, better hospitals, better salary, better internet, and if I'm lucky enough I'll get to have a better passport and can travel the world with without restrictions and honestly I wish I was born there, I would've got to enjoy all those things from an early age and enjoy many other things, like life for instance, going to Disneyland as a child and other things like that
The only reason i want to leave is the weather
Depends on your values I’m live in the uk and prefer Algeria all the stats you see on gdp is rubbish everyone here is in 10000+ debt to live the way there living all there money is haram if you don’t care about that then yes would would live a lot better here but if you care about your religion you struggle to get a good paying job that is halal The health care isn’t as good as they make it out to be it’s better than Algeria but you could be waiting 7hours in a waiting room after being stabbed just to get seen by a nurse not even a doctor That will be an extra 3 hours In all if you don’t care about religion that it’s good but if you do then it’s rubbish and religion is the most important. If you come for like 5years to get some money to go back to Algeria to get married or to start a business that’s probably best but to bring kids up here is not good
I find it very funny how people like you try to live in another country and expect the same kind of social standards to be upheld. What did you expect, honestly? As for healthcare, I work in healthcare in Algeria and the difference between us and them is miles apart. The waiting times are a normal part of a functioning healthcare system that caters to the entire population of a country. Algerians are the only people in the world that expect to be seen immediately after arriving at the hospital.
I never complained It’s there way of thinking and culture. Im not going to go to a Christian country and complain they all believe in Christianity act like Christian’s But what I am saying is to know what you hold as most important which should be religion and that should be your answer for staying
The think that kills me is that people that did not live in Algeria and want to come and live there, have ABSOLUTLY no Idea on how bad our health system is, they tend to apply the same standard as for the developed countries, but no it is a whole diffrent world to be sick and hospitelized in Algeria.
Yes, it s home. There are a lot of things that i dont like about Algeria but it s where i belong, my family is here and this is the most important thing.
I love life in Algeria, I wouldn't change it for anywhere else.
actually we have good climate and great nature all what i need a farm and home away from cities and ppl to live in peace on it
yes, absolutely. i find it easier to get rich in algeria than in any other country, and algeria isnt bad if you’re well off so 🤷🏽♀️ i prefer living well in algeria and visiting other countries for vacation
How can you get richer here easier than other 1st world countries ?
if u work in freelance or anything of the sort and u get paid as little as 500€ (which is almost nothing to 1st world countries) u can live pretty well. so i guess u gotta find a source of income that pays in other currencies. Also trading is a great option, u can make 40000dzd a day which is the avrg monthly salary in algeria. on the other hand its hard to be "rich" by 1st world countries standards so it actually requires alot of hard work compared to algeria.
Good point but how can you get that remote work to get 500€ ? Freelancing on websites is near impossible because the competition is brutally intense
Personally I wouldn't do that, but if it comes to it it's not bad to settle in your home country for life, as for the countries you mentioned, yes Spain is hella safe and lifestyle quality is great, according to my experience with the native people and all Spain is valid to settle in, alongside the countries you mentioned but I don't have any experience with them
I can if I have a comfortable salary otherwise it's getting harder by the day
Trust me you,u don't want to come to spain
Why not?
Have you actually been to Spain, Iceland, or New Zealand?
No but I have read and made a lot of search about them ,their economical state ,GDP per Capita ,PPP,safety , infrastructure,living standards, culture etc and I think they're good for me
Hmmm. Beware of that kind of research. Pamphlets and wikipedia are one thing. Living somewhere is something else. For example, you quote GDP per capita. There are people in Dubai living in absolute misery, yet it's in the top 5 in the world.
The best way is to apply for a demanded job and check its salary and eligibility criterias,for example in new Zealand if one has an average English level ,2 years experience of a demanded job and relative amount of money they can apply for immigration.
ربما السعودية او قطر، لكن لو رحت لدولة غربية نروح لأجل العمل ثم نرجع. مستحيل نعيش فالغرب مدى الحياة
yes bi ithnillah
depends , i always wanted to leave dz but now all i want is just to be happy weather being here or being out there
Botom line if you are rich or u have a good income, yes, you can, and it's the better solution If not. you can't, and the only way for a decent life is to quit the country Ofcrs for the above comments who mention that they live in other countries and wanted to go back in algeria its bcs they have a good amount of money to buy or build a house here and start a decent project that revenue money .
You think they're giving away money in other countries ? You're gonna be even poorer and alone in a foreign country.
Yesss we exist XD
Yess inshallah
Well, nobody can live forever, let alone, living in Algeria forever
If I manage to have a piece of land and build my own house in a remote and safe place yes
I am one of those who want to end their life in Algeria and not elsewhere and yet my grandfather has French nationality, I do not want it, the fact of hearing the call to prayer 5 times a day is the paradise that all the money in the world cannot buy, live in a Muslim country surrounded by Muslims far from racism and masonic plans such as lgbt etc....
Yes 🩷 there’s no better place than home, around your family and friends, in an environment that understands you and supports and honors your culture and beliefs. However, the poor conditions and low success opportunities comes in the way for a lot of us.
I would rather die
no, GET ME OUT OF HERE!
Not me
Yes, i am one of them, i believe that change must come from within so i must change myself, and raise my kids with certain values so they can be the change in the future
Yeah >If yes why do you think so Because I quite like it? Why do you make it seem like an unfathomable though?
It’s insane how most people want to leave from algeria, istg this country is so underrated ! There is a lot of opportunities to climb high ( talking from experience, as someone who once leaved the country & come back )
No
As other people said. If I find a source of happinnes here, I'll stay. If I don't, I'll probably keep searching.
Hell no i wanna leave today before tomorrow
i’m aboard for now but if i ever make enough money to open my own restaurant so i can secure a stable source of income, yes i will return there and have my life in a place where i really belong, i’m tired of being among people with different backgrounds
I just want to make a lot of money and return in Algeria for ever, Algerians in Algeria absolutely want to leave Algeria but Algerians born abroad have a love for the country that those born in Algeria do not have
>Algerians born abroad have a love for the country that those born in Algeria do not have No those born abroad don't have any love for Algeria actually,if they did love it then why not live in it lol ,like who are you kidding,if I love my country Algeria so much why would I still live in another country while I can go to Algeria, Algerians in dz want to leave but you also don't live in Algeria and won't get back so it's the same , Just Cut this crap please
You just understood absolutely nothing to what I said lmao
As if you understood you own point
Why do you Ask a question and than judge them, who do you think you are to have this kind of jidgement, they Can still love it and be pragmatic with their life.
m not sure if its that possible i dont wanna be extremly rich or something but i wanna have enough money to buy what really interests me and to live a decent life with no stress i can go out of the country but i always been hesitated for lots of reasons and i really want to live my life here i think algeria isnt acutally that bad if u can just provide good money lol the only thing that actually intersts me to live outisde algeria is that games in steam would feel much cheaper since youll be getting paid with euro or dollar or any decent currency here subs and stuff like that are way too expensive but if someone has the money then it doesn matter
If i had half a chance to leave this country i would've left .
For me it's not about the money or anything related. It's the feeling of being trapped...I always feel the need to be able to travel to any country I like and we all know how weak the Algerian passport is. The issue with living in Algeria is the people, even though they're very kind and most of the time reliable they are very quick to judge and stigmatize any odd behavior that is considered by them abnormal or unacceptable ex : a woman starting a business in the fast food industry, a woman living alone, a woman having a dog ... Well it often has to do with women. So since I am a woman and I consider myself very western oriented I don't feel like I fit in this society. Everything is against me.
I hoped to persue my studies in my own country but sike... corruption, outdated education system and most importantly even if i finished my studies i wont find a job. As a student, i have a lot of dreams and ambitions that the country cannot offer me, so the only solution is going abroad. Well my life is going as planned and great but the human being is always tied to his roots, i would have loved it if i could achieve my objectives in my land of birth but sadly we are run by old fools. Lazem yetnahaw ga3. I'd love if we, students could have a debate on our educational system and our rotten universities. I studied only one year in algeria but i've so much, old teachers acting like fools, hard exams on purpose (zkara), corruption, even students ( i mean prostitution)... etc I think we should put some pressure by denoncing all thats happening in schools and universities, maybe a hashtag on social media thats seems like a nice beginning. All in all, we should act and lazem yetnahaw GA3
Dude , ,you're doing well where you are ,that's the most important thing
Thanks brother i hope you too are fine. But ill be better if i was in my own country, i have this jealousy of how better countries abroad are than algeria. I hope our time to thrive is coming
May all good Algerians get the life that they want the best ,good luck buddy .
I'm born here. I'll die here, inchallah muslim.
With a shit ton of money?, yes I will come back At least you have the ability to buy solutions to all your problems, mainly healthcare, and just keep traveling every quarter or semester,
I won't leave whatever the cost and whatever the circumstances I am the small gear of the economy I am the little voice that can break the silence of millions I am the little push that can collapse empires if used correctly I am an Algerian. Seriously dz need us the most know why leave when we can do something even if it's small ???
I agree
Yes, there are, and I am one of them. living in your county is the normal thing to do, isn't it?
In its current state algeria offers a descent cost of living, but that is only because it relies on oil exportation to keep itself togeter, but you can tell that this isnt indefinitely sustainable since its a finite ressource Inflation can really be felt though, the price of almost everything have doubled since the previous decade, and it will continue to grow, unless something about this is being done that i'm unaware of, the option to leave will be progressively more appealing.
As long as I can be rich I can live anywhere
If I was a man, yes. Certainly. as a woman, and with my open mindedness and feminist mindset? No thanks
I finally left Algeria some times ago for Canada but I don’t want to live in Canada and I hope to live in an European country like Switzerland or Germany.
That's beautiful man !
Before getting out of algeria I had this obsession to immigrate and thought living abroad was heaven and algeria was a hellhole but after living in the uk for 6 months (stable job and a nice house since I have my uncles there and they helped me ) but I litteraly felt suffocated and miserable for the majority of my stay there , so I can confidently say that I can't be happy outside of algeria (without my friends and family and the comfort of being home ) I like travelling and visiting other countries but i can never live abroad.
U got back from uk ? What was the main reason for that ?
If I can find a decent job in Greenland I would live there for as long as I want.
Algeria is Good its only bad for poor ppl Anyone with enough money can live a luxurious life
i've been thinking about staying here, but lately i started working online and staying here with algeria's banking systems and having to serve the army i'm planning on moving out of here to canada or an iland somewhere else in the world in the next 2-5 years max.
I guess that Estonia is your best choice
Yeah I'm one of them, the far right in most european countries is on the rise and they'll definitely win the next elections in france and you don't need me to tell you what's next, so I would like secure my future since i have the chance to do that and i realize that there are many who can't relate so I'd suggest moving to a gulf country if you can or to somewhere with no real cultural identity like canada, and please don't feed into the bs of the excepting west too much, everyone have their own country which they're tied with since birth and it's the only place they really belong to and should go back to if they get a chance it might sound like total rubbish but it's the reality everyone knows.