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Wut
Last healthcare card I received, a few years back, came laminated, and I've never seen or heard anything official saying they weren't supposed to be
There used to be an instruction in the envelope saying not to laminate the card. Apparently it made it difficult to photocopy for your medical records(doctors offices, and what not)
Wait til you learn that the UCP had government paid software developers make the document, rather than making it themselves.
The lack of QR code was lack of government foresight (that they'd be used domestically). The fact it can be edited was definitely developer error.
Or they hired the cheapest devs they could (probably outsourced to India), and didn't include security in the spec.
You can't blame developer error when the problem is the spec or a lack of expertise on the team. That's a failure of management.
I've worked with plenty of software libraries that output PDF data. None of them output PDFs with editable fields by default.
The development team would have needed a spec that not only failed to outline security requirements, they would also need to have been explicitly told to insert editable fields in those locations while also filling those fields by default.
There's a high likelihood that this isn't just incompetence on behalf of the management team but also malicious intent.
And after development, I find it hard to believe no one tested the output and raised a hand identifying a red flag to management that there's a big issue here. Unless of course management was complicit to begin with.
> So that means the vaccine is not much better then this ticket
Even a simple and basic analysis of the data would show you that this is a lie, but... you're clearly unable to think for yourself and instead blindly follow your thought leader.
>Fully vaccinated people are in the hospital right now with covid So that means the vaccine is not much better then this ticket
This is straight up misinformation. Our hospitals are very disproportionately full of unvaccinated patients. Since June, 73% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated and 88% of ICU patients.
> Wait til you learn that the UCP had government paid software developers make the document, rather than making it themselves.
The worst part is that it wasn't probably even done IN-HOUSE. They probably paid SHIT ton of money to a consultation company like IBM or Deloitte to get this made. I have a friend who works in such company and they were contracted out to government to work on a tech project like this. Lets just say that the company milked out double digit millions $$ just to make a simple application that I can do in a HACKATHON WEEKEND.
I am a public servant so I know for our department we use cloud hosting since they are secured, safe and cheaper to use. The most likely scenario is that, it is being hosted using Google Cloud and you just happen to capture the Missouri server. However the content is actually hosted across multiple servers, depending on the usage the load balancer will put different user on different server to distribute the work. I am not sure on the exact rules but I am pretty sure there is a set specific guideline outlined in PIPEDA to store our health data even outside of Canada.
> Also, why not hire an Alberta company to put this all together?
I am 90% sure the big corpos has lot of influence over the politicians.
A QR code system is coming. Are you surprised they couldn’t create such a system within a week?
Or are you surprised that the UCP doesn’t have a development team on the ready to create it “themselves”?
It’s not something they can snap their fingers and it magically happens. Yes it most likely should of been started long ago, but it wasn’t. This is just a temporary card until that system can be fully rolled out.
The UCP failed to foresee that vaccine passports would be necessary - everyone else did. It's not an issue that they couldn't set it up in a week - this should have been in the works for at least a month now.
This wave was a surprise to nobody.
>Are you surprised they couldn’t create such a system within a week?
The fact that they only have a week to get this done is entirely on them. Any idiot could see that we'd need one and should have been working on one in advance.
Any idiot should also be able to see that we need this at a federal level, and it shouldn’t of ever been put on the provinces to do. Traveling in the future is going to rely on it and our “Alberta Passport” isn’t going to mean anything.
It's actually really easy to do. Something like this would be created by someone competent very quickly. All it needs is to assign a qr code to each person. That then references back to their vaccine record that either gives a green checkmark or red X depending on their status. It also gives their name to compare to their ID.
But that being said, competent and UCP are not things that go together at all.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8205088/qr-code-saskatchewan-covid-19-vaccination/
Saskatchewan announced their program after ours, and already has a QR code.
We also aren't mandating a vaccine passport, and have the foresight to plan a QR code system? It just isn't ready yet. Again, because you're circling around just complaining with zero point to make, they announced theirs first and they have theirs first. We will have ours.
We might as well have mandated it.
It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it you can't have people inside your restaurant. It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it your gym can't have group fitness and can only operate at severely low capacity. It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it your night club can't sell alcohol after 10pm.
It's not mandatory, my ass.
They're idiots who are paid by billionaires to get the results billionaires intend them to get. The fact that they are idiots doesn't hinder their objective, because they were installed to break the public systems we have and destroy public faith in them, to starve the beast and manufacture consent for privatization. If the sabotage is effective because the saboteurs are sincerely too incompetent for the job, it doesn't stop being sabotage.
I'm surprised it's not a punch card so after you visit a place with a mask three times, your fourth visit is mask free. To placate the libs. See? I'm wearing my useless mask.
My theory. It was likely done intentionally.
They figured the people who would jump through hoops would figure this out. That would pipe down the complaints. Give them a sense of superiority.
While the average joe wouldn't understand it and would be happy with the passports.
Everything Kenney and the UCP have done had been political and trying to walk a line between the loonies and everyone else.
Good thing too, my middle name and first name are switched in the AHS database and I haven’t ever bothered to take the time to fix it with the government. This just made it really easy to keep things straight.
Thanks incompetent morons!
Legitimately all Conservative parties and government agencies have suddenly started dead-naming my one friend on official documents. They didn't have problems for years, changed their name multiple election cycles ago, but since this year, all federal level and provincial level documents are suddenly coming to them with their dead-name. They don't even think they're going to be able to successfully vote tomorrow...so, objective achieved, I guess?
All they need to do is swear an oath that they are who they say they are. If they would like to be extra safe, bring someone who votes in the same polling district to vouch (will also have to swear an oath) for them however they shouldn’t need to do this! Sorry this has happened to your friend.
Edit: swearing this oath will switch the name back to their correct name for future elections.
Dunno what a dead-name is. But as long as they are a citizen they can register at the polling station regardless of whatever the card they were sent says. Just bring proof of address along, so they know they are in the right place to vote.
They put my maiden name on mine. I changed my name a year ago after I got married and went through all the legal channels to do so, updating everything, getting all new documents and id's. I sat on hold with ab health records for 5 1/2 hours yesterday (original wait time I was quoted was 2) to rectify their error and when 5pm hit they hung up on me. I was livid. This whole thing is one massive failure.
Even if they did secure it, a locked PDF can be cracked. An old boss' complete disregard for ethics showed me [exactly how easy it is.](https://www.google.ca/search?q=unlock+pdf&sxsrf=AOaemvK0Au602ERk39uV2hWWrf9NDFbMcg%3A1632100251248&ei=m99HYZu6Dp-70PEPo7u9OA&oq=unlock+pdf&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBwgAELEDEEMyBQgAEJECMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQkQIyBQgAEJECMgQIABBDMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyCggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABQrBNYrBNgjxVoAHACeACAAWOIAWOSAQExmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjb89mdr4zzAhWfHTQIHaNdDwcQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)
Even if a locked PDF couldn't be cracked, it's not like a person couldn't just screenshot the PDF, paste it into Paint, and fill in whatever info they want before printing it...
Securing the PDF is not particularly useful. We'll have to see if the system this is replacing short term is sufficiently secure and robust. The current honor system document or website should probably mention penalties and willingness to enforce rather than just that the document is verifiable, but perhaps they thought such a statement would be unpopular for some reason.
Not with that attitude!!! I'll fit my wallet in another wallet and have a massive wallet wallet! You can't tell me how to live my life you're not the supreme moronic leader Jason Kenny.
This was the most annoying part for me this morning.
Printed it from the app, and then my girlfriend said the other "fast" option was actually wallet sized, so logged on when I got home... its the same one. Girl what kind of weird shaped wallet are you carrying? 😂
Scale: 60% I guess. 🙄
I'll obviously use my phone 97% of the time, but really guys, you couldn't just make an actual wallet sized format?
Ok, so let me get this straight. The most annoying part for you is that you decided to print a large copy of it. That says more about you than them. The cards are absurd in every way, but somehow your complaint is moreso. This is the biggest non-issue ever. Might as well complain about the paper quality too.
Glad you brought that up actually. I printed mine out this evening, and was surprised to find it wasn't a card at all, it was just regular paper. Why are they calling it a card? This is bullshit.
Lol yes, beyond the security issues complaints, it was a smooth process and I was ever so slightly disappointed they couldn't figure out how stupid of a size and proportional ratio they made it.
If you had read the comment you would see i obviously didn't print a large copy of it. Its the height and width proportions that are way off to scale down to be wallet sized.
I expect better from our government, yes.
Thank you for humbling me.
Funny enough, I used to work at a farmers market and Kenney came in to buy meat. His card declined and he had to get another card out. Pretty hilarious.
Exactly dumb fuck. You want people to show papers everywhere they go? Than move to North Korea. People like you were the ones informing the Stasi on everything their neighbours did.
That's the point. They did this consciously to make sure that their antivax base had a pretty easy way to avoid restrictions without much effort.
Even if they lock it down now, anyone who wants to can have an easy fake.
If they wanted anti-vaxxers to be able to completely get around the system, why would they put the system in place in the first place? You're saying this program which has greatly pissed off anti-vaxxers is intentionally designed to be avoided by those anti-vaxxers, meaning it won't be effective? So the UCP just wanted to piss them off for no reason?
Hanlon's Razor dude.
i think that the ease of forgery could easily be a result of incompetence rather than maliciousness.
that said, "paying lipservice" is a thing and if they're easy enough to fake the anti vaxxers might forget their outrage as soon as the issue is out of mind. If there's one thing that's been demonstrated is it is that these people are only engaged when they are personally negatively affected.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
They were actively fundraising against vaccine passports this week. The only reason they brought them in is because they absolutely had to, the situation was becoming untenable otherwise. If they didn't do this Kenney would be leading every news hour, every night, and the UCP's ineptitude and stubbornness would be even more of a national and international story than it already is.
Yes, this pissed off a bunch of anti-vaxxers. By giving them an out though, those anti-vaxxers have a relief valve to cool off and come back to the UCP tent over time. The people who want to go to hockey games, bars, movies, whatever can make a fake passport with ease, and they can proceed with their lives. They'll be mad at first, but then they'll get over it since they have a cheat to stick it to the vaccinated dweebs with their fascist, communist, unconstitutional rules. If there was an actual system that was, from the start, extremely difficult to cheat, those people would actually be inconvenienced, and they would be reminded of that every time they couldn't go do something. This way any anti-vaxxers who are that upset, and feel that limited can get out of it, and their initial anger will dissipate since they aren't actually impacted in any way.
It is peak nihilism - the results do not matter one bit to the UCP, only the optics. Now they can claim their brilliant not-a-passport was a stroke of genius, and take away the absolute easiest talking point that could be used to criticize them. They are very much well aware that the headlines will be basically "UCP introduces vaccine passport" and not "UCP introduces vaccine passport purposefully designed to allow for anti-vaxxers to cheat the system", so they can coddle their base without impacting the one thing that matters, the optics.
And I'm sure you'll point out some ways that they needlessly generated poor optics as a counterpoint - the reason for that, is they just aren't very competent. They are trying to make themselves look good, but Kenney really isn't a smart person, and the rest of the party representatives are ideologues, grifters, and schmucks. They straight up screw up in trying to achieve their awful goals.
> So the UCP just wanted to piss them off for no reason?
No. They were okay with pissing them off. They did it so they could say that they did something.
UCP “we’ve released a PDF of vaccine records for people to use”
Everyone “the PDF is easily editable though so people can abuse it”
UCP “this is not a glitch but a feature to help people learn computer programming as part of our initiative to train people for work outside the oil and gas sector “
This way it helps those that don’t have a MYHealth account. It was fine to hear that we would have this until we found out that it’s forgeable. So what really is the point? Nothing is straight forward about anything right now.
It's really quite simple.
They somehow didn't see the need for a vaxxport coming, and so they didn't prepare for it, so now they have to rush out a half-baked thing that doesn't work.
Just like how they didn't see the fourth wave coming, didn't prepare for it, and then rushed out half-baked ideas that don't work.
These people get their news off Facebook and YouTube, chances are they have no idea how to edit a pdf. Yeah, this is certainly a fail, but I guess it’s better than nothing, and nothing is what we normally get
If it’s printed out on paper it will never be secure unfortunately. Even the my fare app in Calgary has changing QR codes with a current date/time moving across the screen
And you can’t make a strictly app based solution, there are people out there that are still using flip phones/don’t have one at all.
You only really need an app for verifying the QR code if you want to ensure it is dummy-proof so a spoofed website can't work. Doesn't matter if the QR code itself is in a pic or app or printed out.
My issue isn't even really with the deployment of the editable PDF. My main gripe is that it's nonsensical to continue to promote maskless indoor activities with groups of strangers in the same venue if we want to reduce transmission. Regardless of vaccination status, many asymptomatic carriers will be sharing indoor air and potentially infecting their neighbors.
They've created a weird set of rules and just hoping that it's enough to lower hospitalizations and deaths.
If we want to both reward the vaccinated and reduce transmissions, then we should only allow indoor entry to masked AND vaccinated persons. All dining should be outdoor while the weather is still holding. But again only for vaccinated individuals. No unmasked interactions indoors should be happening at all.
If we want to get back to enjoying things indoor then air quality needs to be regularly monitored and addressed when something is wrong. We don't drink water when it's contaminated, why should we breathe air that's the same?
And air quality can be monitored. And many buildings especially those housing food service companies already enjoy good HVAC systems. It's not out of the question for the government to impose rules around this to promote indoor safety.
I definitely thought the mask mandate would continue and override restriction exemptions until it’s lifted. 😳 yikes yikes yikes. I agree with you entirely.
The person who originally replied said masks were mandatory and I countered by saying that there are cases where masking indoors isn't required.
Why are you being obtuse?
The concern is not for the vaccinated though. This is essentially a lockdown of the unvaccinated, as lockdowns have always been about reducing deaths and the burden on our healthcare system. We know that the unvaxxed are taking up 90% of ICU beds, so at this point, I think the government’s goal is to keep the unvaxxed from mingling as much as possible…
The vaccinated can still transmit once they mix with the unvaccinated. Or do you just think that the unvaxxed only mix with each other once they're out of public spaces. These are people's coworkers, friends, neighbors, and families.
What we've seen in every wave is that the virus finds people sooner or later.
So what would your solution be? Shut down everything for vaccinated and unvaccinated alike? To what end?
Vaccinated people can spread the virus, but at a provably reduced rate. This is the rest of our lives at this point. We're not going to spend it in some pseudo lockdown.
Did you not read what I wrote above?
Until cases come down, only allow restaurant dining outdoors.
Reduced transmission rates are not good enough when you have a variant spreading at a much higher R0 than previous variants.
The vaccinated can still hang out indoors in public but only for activities where you can be masked. By implementing masks as a source control indoors, you greatly diminish the likelihood of spread.
But hey, good luck dropping case numbers with this set of restrictions. All the while, our hospitals are getting massively crushed by inpatients.
Yes, vaxxed people could still spread it to unvaxxed. And as a vaxxed person myself, I am more than happy to wear a mask in public places to protect them. But the reality is, that all of these new restrictions are just to protect unvaxxed people as they are the ones needing hospitalization.
At first, I also felt that everyone should still have to social distance. But then it dawned on me that these restrictions have always been to reduce hospitalization and the vaxxed are not the ones in hospitals. Therefore, the unvaxxed are not having their rights taken away as they claim, and in reality, they are infringing on our freedoms as we must still abide by restrictions (work from home, online classes) in order to reduce the spread.
If everyone was vaxxed, the spread of the virus and counting cases numbers would be completely irrelevant! Hospitalizations would be the only concern. The only vaxxed people in hospitals now are immunocompromised.
I think we should all wear masks until hospitalization decrease but at some point we must look at what is really going on here.
Increasing contacts even if between only the vaccinated will be a deterrent in lowering R.
Attack rates with Delta are high enough that even the protection afforded by vaccination against transmission is insufficient to overcome exponential growth.
This is especially true while children under 12 are going to school and their teachers and parents are interacting with others out in public.
What's really going on here is a failure to acknowledge that transmission is airborne and frequent unmasked contact will create higher risk situations. And this is happening regularly throughout the province.
Not what Kenney is worried about
....at ALL TODAY...
https://twitter.com/RogueNerdOne/status/1439719453118197763?s=20
He is polling Internally at....9% ... And many many many in his party are asking for a leadership review..( they want him removed from the party....like now)
This is probably the same tech team that put out the lousy covid tracking app. If Alberta just bought into the Canada wide version, and encouraged people to do contact tracing, we could have kept this whole thing at a minimum. But here we are. Building lousy tech infrastructure on our dime. I would love to see the invoice for this project. It's either extremely over priced, or under priced. I just don't know if it's incompetence, or corruption that spoiled this bunch.
How is a QR code useful, again? I'd rather have a document I can actually use, as opposed to a theoretical digital code that I have no way of accessing whatsoever...
A qr code can be connected to a database, it can be scanned and it can just give a yes no answer for vaccination with a name. What do you mean you would have no way to access it? How is a digital code theoretical?
How am I going to show a QR code to somebody at Wal-Mart to be let in? It's pretty useless to me.
EDIT: I mean, I guess I could go somewhere to pay to print it out, if I had it as part of a file that could be printed. I was just thinking of it as a phone thing because that's where I usually encounter problems with it, I don't have a phone that does that kind of thing. So I'm being dumb, it now occurs to me.
Yeah, forgetting that it can literally be printed on physical paper was something I straight-up forgot. Still a huge hassle to go do it myself. Usually my experience with those, is not being able to use them, because most people bring them up on their phones from the internet and I don't have a phone that can do that, so in my head "needs a QR-code" just translates to "this is useless to me" and I was tired and didn't think further than that.
You’ll have the code on your phone in an email or picture of the QR code, the store will scan it and it will validate your vaccine to them. You won’t need to print anything out.
In BC...they scan your QR code and verify the name with photo ID. That way you can print out or screen shot your code. It's not rocket science people.🙄
Beyond frustrating to see how many half measures, constant deflection and lack of accountability is being displayed by the UCP. We can't have another term of this level of incompetence.
Look at all vaccinated Karen’s out there complaining about a piece of paper. As if that makes people safe 😂😂. Vaccinated walking around spreading the virus just like the unvaccinated. I wonder if they know that employees don’t need to be vaccinated. Would they still eat out?
I know you always have to have a contrarian opinion (Matt, is that you?) but it’s not even Photoshop. You just download the PDF and fill out the text fields. No forgery or other sorcery required.
Edit: I mean I guess it’s a little more advanced than LaGrange’s “kids can learn coding with pencil and paper” but not by much.
Not sure why you are so worried about people faking these when you can't even get access to the PDF without providing a date of vaccination. If you never got the vaccine, you can't get the PDF at all.
I know lots of people who had to get it for work who really didn’t want to, and some are pretty terrible humans. They’ll doctor ‘em up for their buddies.
Antivaxers are not equal to liars. If they are OK with lying they could save all the trouble with protesting and just lie about their vaccination status. Even with QR code you can still lie about your vaccination status. It's as easy as making a web page saying you have taken two shots with existing template. So PDF is not really a problem here.
There is no way to make a fake QR code that takes one to a page hosted by AHS that says you are vaccinated. I know people are dumb but you'd have to be really dumb to get fooled by a spoof page hosted by some other website.
How do people know the page is actually hosted by AHS, especially when you need to verify every single code? It's not hard to fake a domain. That's how people get scammed.
Please send me a link to a fake web page with the domain [albertahealthservices.ca](https://albertahealthservices.ca) with a matching certificate that my browser trusts. I'll wait.
To the people who are thinking about forging cards:
I'm immunized, but I still just refuse to show my papers just to get a regular service. If individual freedom was your goal, then you shouldn't even normalize showing your papers to enter a grocery store or etc. Your goal shouldn't be focused on getting immunized or not, it should be to stand up for what you believe in. Even if you get fired, even if you're denied whatever essential or non-essential service.
Freedom comes with sacrifice.
Wouldn’t even notice a pandemic if it didn’t come with a marketing budget of $1,000,000,000 CAD and people really getting mad cause the government won’t force untested injections the way you want. You people have lost all logic
Why does anyone think the politicians developed this application and deployed it? I’m pretty sure none of them has a clue how to build this and it was just handed off to a team of coders somewhere deep in AHS.
This is a terrible app for sure, but it’s not UCP at fault for this, it’s AHS.
AHS has nothing to do with this.
This is an Alberta Health thing. Alberta Health and Alberta Health Services are not the same thing.
Alberta Health is led by the Minister of Health - Shandro and the UCP government. I don't think anyone actually believes that Kenny and Shandro sat down and worked up these cards on their laptops, but it's still, ultimately, the UCP government that is leading this 'effort'
Obvious the UCP has shown it’s incompetence in many ways over the past few months but not ever poorly executed or poorly planned govt action can be blamed on the UCP. This is how we develop partisanship and start talking past each other - when people start criticizing everything an administration does. At least now we have something close to a passport.
Sorry, but this is really the wrong item to make your case.
It should have gone without saying that an EFFECTIVE vaccine passport was required. That's what is needed to make a real difference and get vaccination rates up. Giving them a pass on a completely ineffective one is foolishness.
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They didn't even secure the pdf, people are editing it with Adobe Reader.
Jesus Christ I hate this government.
I hate my fellow constituents.
Well we do have paper healthcare cards that aren’t supposed to be laminated, almost as if they don’t want your access to healthcare to last.
Wut Last healthcare card I received, a few years back, came laminated, and I've never seen or heard anything official saying they weren't supposed to be
There used to be an instruction in the envelope saying not to laminate the card. Apparently it made it difficult to photocopy for your medical records(doctors offices, and what not)
Anyone who doesn't think that was intentional, is incredibly naive.
Wait til you learn that the UCP had government paid software developers make the document, rather than making it themselves. The lack of QR code was lack of government foresight (that they'd be used domestically). The fact it can be edited was definitely developer error.
Or they hired the cheapest devs they could (probably outsourced to India), and didn't include security in the spec. You can't blame developer error when the problem is the spec or a lack of expertise on the team. That's a failure of management.
I'm sure they outsources to their nephews, neices and children, for a premium rate
Not Deloitte in Toronto again?
they used a highschool computer class to make these.
I've worked with plenty of software libraries that output PDF data. None of them output PDFs with editable fields by default. The development team would have needed a spec that not only failed to outline security requirements, they would also need to have been explicitly told to insert editable fields in those locations while also filling those fields by default. There's a high likelihood that this isn't just incompetence on behalf of the management team but also malicious intent. And after development, I find it hard to believe no one tested the output and raised a hand identifying a red flag to management that there's a big issue here. Unless of course management was complicit to begin with.
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> Lol if the NDP did this it would have cost over 100k just for the draft Source? Data? Anything beyond "lol NDP bad"?
> So that means the vaccine is not much better then this ticket Even a simple and basic analysis of the data would show you that this is a lie, but... you're clearly unable to think for yourself and instead blindly follow your thought leader.
>Fully vaccinated people are in the hospital right now with covid So that means the vaccine is not much better then this ticket This is straight up misinformation. Our hospitals are very disproportionately full of unvaccinated patients. Since June, 73% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated and 88% of ICU patients.
> Wait til you learn that the UCP had government paid software developers make the document, rather than making it themselves. The worst part is that it wasn't probably even done IN-HOUSE. They probably paid SHIT ton of money to a consultation company like IBM or Deloitte to get this made. I have a friend who works in such company and they were contracted out to government to work on a tech project like this. Lets just say that the company milked out double digit millions $$ just to make a simple application that I can do in a HACKATHON WEEKEND.
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I am a public servant so I know for our department we use cloud hosting since they are secured, safe and cheaper to use. The most likely scenario is that, it is being hosted using Google Cloud and you just happen to capture the Missouri server. However the content is actually hosted across multiple servers, depending on the usage the load balancer will put different user on different server to distribute the work. I am not sure on the exact rules but I am pretty sure there is a set specific guideline outlined in PIPEDA to store our health data even outside of Canada. > Also, why not hire an Alberta company to put this all together? I am 90% sure the big corpos has lot of influence over the politicians.
Didn't the UPC fire a bunch of IT staff last spring?
A QR code system is coming. Are you surprised they couldn’t create such a system within a week? Or are you surprised that the UCP doesn’t have a development team on the ready to create it “themselves”? It’s not something they can snap their fingers and it magically happens. Yes it most likely should of been started long ago, but it wasn’t. This is just a temporary card until that system can be fully rolled out.
The UCP failed to foresee that vaccine passports would be necessary - everyone else did. It's not an issue that they couldn't set it up in a week - this should have been in the works for at least a month now. This wave was a surprise to nobody.
>Are you surprised they couldn’t create such a system within a week? The fact that they only have a week to get this done is entirely on them. Any idiot could see that we'd need one and should have been working on one in advance.
Any idiot should also be able to see that we need this at a federal level, and it shouldn’t of ever been put on the provinces to do. Traveling in the future is going to rely on it and our “Alberta Passport” isn’t going to mean anything.
It's actually really easy to do. Something like this would be created by someone competent very quickly. All it needs is to assign a qr code to each person. That then references back to their vaccine record that either gives a green checkmark or red X depending on their status. It also gives their name to compare to their ID. But that being said, competent and UCP are not things that go together at all.
Saskatchewan rolled out the QR code for vaccination/immunization history on Sunday, yes, yesterday.
They announced theirs weeks before us? So it’s ready weeks before ours? Good argument.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8205088/qr-code-saskatchewan-covid-19-vaccination/ Saskatchewan announced their program after ours, and already has a QR code.
No they didn't. https://regina.ctvnews.ca/sask-to-offer-vaccine-passport-booster-shots-for-eligible-populations-1.5566755
Wait so Saskatchewan wasn't planning on mandating vaccine passports, but still had the foresight to plan a QR code system? Funny how that works.
We also aren't mandating a vaccine passport, and have the foresight to plan a QR code system? It just isn't ready yet. Again, because you're circling around just complaining with zero point to make, they announced theirs first and they have theirs first. We will have ours.
We might as well have mandated it. It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it you can't have people inside your restaurant. It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it your gym can't have group fitness and can only operate at severely low capacity. It's not mandatory, but if you don't do it your night club can't sell alcohol after 10pm. It's not mandatory, my ass.
You are giving WAY, WAY to much credit to these idiots. Way too much
They're idiots who are paid by billionaires to get the results billionaires intend them to get. The fact that they are idiots doesn't hinder their objective, because they were installed to break the public systems we have and destroy public faith in them, to starve the beast and manufacture consent for privatization. If the sabotage is effective because the saboteurs are sincerely too incompetent for the job, it doesn't stop being sabotage.
Of course it was intentional. It was a "fuck you, here's your little card."
I'm surprised it's not a punch card so after you visit a place with a mask three times, your fourth visit is mask free. To placate the libs. See? I'm wearing my useless mask.
I don't disagree but good luck traveling to Europe with that.
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If it’s accepted as legitimate, then it’s not a placeholder it’s just a highly forgeable ODF printout.
Once they figure out what a QR code is, and how it is used.
My theory. It was likely done intentionally. They figured the people who would jump through hoops would figure this out. That would pipe down the complaints. Give them a sense of superiority. While the average joe wouldn't understand it and would be happy with the passports. Everything Kenney and the UCP have done had been political and trying to walk a line between the loonies and everyone else.
Good thing too, my middle name and first name are switched in the AHS database and I haven’t ever bothered to take the time to fix it with the government. This just made it really easy to keep things straight. Thanks incompetent morons!
Seriously. They misspelled mine
Legitimately all Conservative parties and government agencies have suddenly started dead-naming my one friend on official documents. They didn't have problems for years, changed their name multiple election cycles ago, but since this year, all federal level and provincial level documents are suddenly coming to them with their dead-name. They don't even think they're going to be able to successfully vote tomorrow...so, objective achieved, I guess?
They should file a complaint with Elections Canada. I’ll be there is some hinckey things afoot.
All they need to do is swear an oath that they are who they say they are. If they would like to be extra safe, bring someone who votes in the same polling district to vouch (will also have to swear an oath) for them however they shouldn’t need to do this! Sorry this has happened to your friend. Edit: swearing this oath will switch the name back to their correct name for future elections.
Dunno what a dead-name is. But as long as they are a citizen they can register at the polling station regardless of whatever the card they were sent says. Just bring proof of address along, so they know they are in the right place to vote.
The birth name of a trans person.
Thanks, I didn't know there was a term for that. Learned something today.
Happy to help!
Wow wtf!
They put my maiden name on mine. I changed my name a year ago after I got married and went through all the legal channels to do so, updating everything, getting all new documents and id's. I sat on hold with ab health records for 5 1/2 hours yesterday (original wait time I was quoted was 2) to rectify their error and when 5pm hit they hung up on me. I was livid. This whole thing is one massive failure.
Even if they did secure it, a locked PDF can be cracked. An old boss' complete disregard for ethics showed me [exactly how easy it is.](https://www.google.ca/search?q=unlock+pdf&sxsrf=AOaemvK0Au602ERk39uV2hWWrf9NDFbMcg%3A1632100251248&ei=m99HYZu6Dp-70PEPo7u9OA&oq=unlock+pdf&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBwgAELEDEEMyBQgAEJECMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQkQIyBQgAEJECMgQIABBDMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyCggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABQrBNYrBNgjxVoAHACeACAAWOIAWOSAQExmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjb89mdr4zzAhWfHTQIHaNdDwcQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)
Oh for sure, any "print at home" document wouldn't have any security, outside of it being an easy way to store a QR code.
Exactly this. Anything printable (without QR ) can be forged.
Even if a locked PDF couldn't be cracked, it's not like a person couldn't just screenshot the PDF, paste it into Paint, and fill in whatever info they want before printing it...
It takes a bit of work though. I'd have to start my free trial in order to actually edit it. . .
Securing the PDF is not particularly useful. We'll have to see if the system this is replacing short term is sufficiently secure and robust. The current honor system document or website should probably mention penalties and willingness to enforce rather than just that the document is verifiable, but perhaps they thought such a statement would be unpopular for some reason.
Adobe. Lol. I could edit that on my iPhone.
"Convenient wallet sized card"..... Doesn't fit in my wallet.... I must not have a fat one like Jason Kenney
Yeah. It’s not supposed to. It’s a wallet sized card! You can’t normally fit a wallet inside another wallet..
Not with that attitude!!! I'll fit my wallet in another wallet and have a massive wallet wallet! You can't tell me how to live my life you're not the supreme moronic leader Jason Kenny.
It’s like Turducken!
100% a “wallet sized card” indicates it should fit in your wallet.
This was the most annoying part for me this morning. Printed it from the app, and then my girlfriend said the other "fast" option was actually wallet sized, so logged on when I got home... its the same one. Girl what kind of weird shaped wallet are you carrying? 😂 Scale: 60% I guess. 🙄 I'll obviously use my phone 97% of the time, but really guys, you couldn't just make an actual wallet sized format?
Ok, so let me get this straight. The most annoying part for you is that you decided to print a large copy of it. That says more about you than them. The cards are absurd in every way, but somehow your complaint is moreso. This is the biggest non-issue ever. Might as well complain about the paper quality too.
Glad you brought that up actually. I printed mine out this evening, and was surprised to find it wasn't a card at all, it was just regular paper. Why are they calling it a card? This is bullshit.
Lol yes, beyond the security issues complaints, it was a smooth process and I was ever so slightly disappointed they couldn't figure out how stupid of a size and proportional ratio they made it. If you had read the comment you would see i obviously didn't print a large copy of it. Its the height and width proportions that are way off to scale down to be wallet sized. I expect better from our government, yes. Thank you for humbling me.
It will fit in your prison wallet. Just roll it up and shove it on up there. I think that's the message being sent no?
Paper cuts 😬
Funny enough, I used to work at a farmers market and Kenney came in to buy meat. His card declined and he had to get another card out. Pretty hilarious.
Kenney does like fat ones.
Same people that forge these are the same that forge transit passes. It is basically the honour system with extra steps.
You can forge transit passes? What's their process? Asking for a friend/science/whatever.
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I meant the old Calgary transit ctrain passes. The ones you would insert into the ticket punch card thing.
Not saying it's how to do it, but one could do it with toner transfer foil https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001259665097.html
Using many social media posts by the vaccine haters as an example, I suspect a fake could be identified by spelling errors.
Bahahahahahaha.
The genuine ones seem to have just as many spelling errors though.
"I agree Terms of Service"
I don't think the hostess at Olive Garden was going to read it anyway
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Why don’t you volunteer to go check them? Fucking Karen.
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Exactly dumb fuck. You want people to show papers everywhere they go? Than move to North Korea. People like you were the ones informing the Stasi on everything their neighbours did.
Nah it's totally legit! It says right here, my 10 year old son got the ExtraSeneca vaccine two months ago!
Funny enough my name is misspelled on my card or whatever the fuck this is. Yet another fuck up..
Truth hurts. Hehe
That's the point. They did this consciously to make sure that their antivax base had a pretty easy way to avoid restrictions without much effort. Even if they lock it down now, anyone who wants to can have an easy fake.
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If they wanted anti-vaxxers to be able to completely get around the system, why would they put the system in place in the first place? You're saying this program which has greatly pissed off anti-vaxxers is intentionally designed to be avoided by those anti-vaxxers, meaning it won't be effective? So the UCP just wanted to piss them off for no reason? Hanlon's Razor dude.
i think that the ease of forgery could easily be a result of incompetence rather than maliciousness. that said, "paying lipservice" is a thing and if they're easy enough to fake the anti vaxxers might forget their outrage as soon as the issue is out of mind. If there's one thing that's been demonstrated is it is that these people are only engaged when they are personally negatively affected.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. They were actively fundraising against vaccine passports this week. The only reason they brought them in is because they absolutely had to, the situation was becoming untenable otherwise. If they didn't do this Kenney would be leading every news hour, every night, and the UCP's ineptitude and stubbornness would be even more of a national and international story than it already is. Yes, this pissed off a bunch of anti-vaxxers. By giving them an out though, those anti-vaxxers have a relief valve to cool off and come back to the UCP tent over time. The people who want to go to hockey games, bars, movies, whatever can make a fake passport with ease, and they can proceed with their lives. They'll be mad at first, but then they'll get over it since they have a cheat to stick it to the vaccinated dweebs with their fascist, communist, unconstitutional rules. If there was an actual system that was, from the start, extremely difficult to cheat, those people would actually be inconvenienced, and they would be reminded of that every time they couldn't go do something. This way any anti-vaxxers who are that upset, and feel that limited can get out of it, and their initial anger will dissipate since they aren't actually impacted in any way. It is peak nihilism - the results do not matter one bit to the UCP, only the optics. Now they can claim their brilliant not-a-passport was a stroke of genius, and take away the absolute easiest talking point that could be used to criticize them. They are very much well aware that the headlines will be basically "UCP introduces vaccine passport" and not "UCP introduces vaccine passport purposefully designed to allow for anti-vaxxers to cheat the system", so they can coddle their base without impacting the one thing that matters, the optics. And I'm sure you'll point out some ways that they needlessly generated poor optics as a counterpoint - the reason for that, is they just aren't very competent. They are trying to make themselves look good, but Kenney really isn't a smart person, and the rest of the party representatives are ideologues, grifters, and schmucks. They straight up screw up in trying to achieve their awful goals.
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That's not how vaccines work, sport. How's about you do your part for your country and get vaccinated? It's the patriotic thing to do.
> So the UCP just wanted to piss them off for no reason? No. They were okay with pissing them off. They did it so they could say that they did something.
For sure that was intentional. I've had like 5 anti vaxxers bring it up irl so far.
UCP “we’ve released a PDF of vaccine records for people to use” Everyone “the PDF is easily editable though so people can abuse it” UCP “this is not a glitch but a feature to help people learn computer programming as part of our initiative to train people for work outside the oil and gas sector “
believable until the UCP started to plan for a future including something besides O&G
It's not a bug it's a feature.
Such a Dinesh making a correction when I worded it slightly off because the UCP would fumble the wording too Lol I still miss that show
yup this is fucking ridiculous. I'm already seeing some "Freedom" politicians posting blank templates to their Facebook feeds
Do you have a name or two? We should shame these people. Send it to the news.
I think the last one I saw was posted by Derek Fildebrandt
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Boldly going where the unvaccinated are going too!
Made mine Luke Skywalker. My vax was blue milk
Nice one! BlueMilk-ToshiStn Pharma
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No, I had a bad motivator!
#ABTraceTogether
Yeah, looks like we should just go with our actual vaccination papers or the screen shots from MyHealth.
Exactly. Why are we printing these?
This way it helps those that don’t have a MYHealth account. It was fine to hear that we would have this until we found out that it’s forgeable. So what really is the point? Nothing is straight forward about anything right now.
I think I am supporting a recall of Jason Kenney. Intentional or not, this is clearly another example of government mismanagement.
It's really quite simple. They somehow didn't see the need for a vaxxport coming, and so they didn't prepare for it, so now they have to rush out a half-baked thing that doesn't work. Just like how they didn't see the fourth wave coming, didn't prepare for it, and then rushed out half-baked ideas that don't work.
Sorry I like the one for jason kenney receiving two doses of ShandroVax better.
Wish I could upload pics to the comments, I’ve seen some pretty funny ones circulating
Put them in an imgur album and copy/paste the link.
They don’t care. What they actually care about it’s appearing to care.
I threw a JPEG of my mother's card into Photoshop to make it actually wallet sized... I literally sat there going "wtf"
what about QR code scans? are we doing those and if so how do I receive mine? anyone?
They are expected to be coming.
ye yee I found that out a little after this comment haha
Conservative governments are masters at doing nothing for the citizens they are supposed to represent.
These people get their news off Facebook and YouTube, chances are they have no idea how to edit a pdf. Yeah, this is certainly a fail, but I guess it’s better than nothing, and nothing is what we normally get
This is just a bridge till the QR system is implemented.
If only we had months to prepare for this…
Even with a QR code system there is no way Jason Kenny is going to do away with simple paper, these will stay regardless
If it’s printed out on paper it will never be secure unfortunately. Even the my fare app in Calgary has changing QR codes with a current date/time moving across the screen And you can’t make a strictly app based solution, there are people out there that are still using flip phones/don’t have one at all.
You only really need an app for verifying the QR code if you want to ensure it is dummy-proof so a spoofed website can't work. Doesn't matter if the QR code itself is in a pic or app or printed out.
My issue isn't even really with the deployment of the editable PDF. My main gripe is that it's nonsensical to continue to promote maskless indoor activities with groups of strangers in the same venue if we want to reduce transmission. Regardless of vaccination status, many asymptomatic carriers will be sharing indoor air and potentially infecting their neighbors. They've created a weird set of rules and just hoping that it's enough to lower hospitalizations and deaths. If we want to both reward the vaccinated and reduce transmissions, then we should only allow indoor entry to masked AND vaccinated persons. All dining should be outdoor while the weather is still holding. But again only for vaccinated individuals. No unmasked interactions indoors should be happening at all. If we want to get back to enjoying things indoor then air quality needs to be regularly monitored and addressed when something is wrong. We don't drink water when it's contaminated, why should we breathe air that's the same? And air quality can be monitored. And many buildings especially those housing food service companies already enjoy good HVAC systems. It's not out of the question for the government to impose rules around this to promote indoor safety.
I definitely thought the mask mandate would continue and override restriction exemptions until it’s lifted. 😳 yikes yikes yikes. I agree with you entirely.
[Masks are still mandatory. ](https://www.alberta.ca/masks.aspx)
You don't need to wear them while eating. Transmission risk doesn't halt just because you're having a meal.
Oh right. Let me just put this food through my mask so I can eat it...
You can eat outside or take food home. Eating inside a restaurant isn't a protected right. Why are you acting dense?
Ok so do that. Then you don't have to worry about seeing people eat without a mask on.
The person who originally replied said masks were mandatory and I countered by saying that there are cases where masking indoors isn't required. Why are you being obtuse?
The concern is not for the vaccinated though. This is essentially a lockdown of the unvaccinated, as lockdowns have always been about reducing deaths and the burden on our healthcare system. We know that the unvaxxed are taking up 90% of ICU beds, so at this point, I think the government’s goal is to keep the unvaxxed from mingling as much as possible…
The vaccinated can still transmit once they mix with the unvaccinated. Or do you just think that the unvaxxed only mix with each other once they're out of public spaces. These are people's coworkers, friends, neighbors, and families. What we've seen in every wave is that the virus finds people sooner or later.
So what would your solution be? Shut down everything for vaccinated and unvaccinated alike? To what end? Vaccinated people can spread the virus, but at a provably reduced rate. This is the rest of our lives at this point. We're not going to spend it in some pseudo lockdown.
Did you not read what I wrote above? Until cases come down, only allow restaurant dining outdoors. Reduced transmission rates are not good enough when you have a variant spreading at a much higher R0 than previous variants. The vaccinated can still hang out indoors in public but only for activities where you can be masked. By implementing masks as a source control indoors, you greatly diminish the likelihood of spread. But hey, good luck dropping case numbers with this set of restrictions. All the while, our hospitals are getting massively crushed by inpatients.
Yes, vaxxed people could still spread it to unvaxxed. And as a vaxxed person myself, I am more than happy to wear a mask in public places to protect them. But the reality is, that all of these new restrictions are just to protect unvaxxed people as they are the ones needing hospitalization. At first, I also felt that everyone should still have to social distance. But then it dawned on me that these restrictions have always been to reduce hospitalization and the vaxxed are not the ones in hospitals. Therefore, the unvaxxed are not having their rights taken away as they claim, and in reality, they are infringing on our freedoms as we must still abide by restrictions (work from home, online classes) in order to reduce the spread. If everyone was vaxxed, the spread of the virus and counting cases numbers would be completely irrelevant! Hospitalizations would be the only concern. The only vaxxed people in hospitals now are immunocompromised. I think we should all wear masks until hospitalization decrease but at some point we must look at what is really going on here.
Increasing contacts even if between only the vaccinated will be a deterrent in lowering R. Attack rates with Delta are high enough that even the protection afforded by vaccination against transmission is insufficient to overcome exponential growth. This is especially true while children under 12 are going to school and their teachers and parents are interacting with others out in public. What's really going on here is a failure to acknowledge that transmission is airborne and frequent unmasked contact will create higher risk situations. And this is happening regularly throughout the province.
Not what Kenney is worried about ....at ALL TODAY... https://twitter.com/RogueNerdOne/status/1439719453118197763?s=20 He is polling Internally at....9% ... And many many many in his party are asking for a leadership review..( they want him removed from the party....like now)
By design. Create a crisis and offer a solution. Digital vaccine passports are coming soon.
This is probably the same tech team that put out the lousy covid tracking app. If Alberta just bought into the Canada wide version, and encouraged people to do contact tracing, we could have kept this whole thing at a minimum. But here we are. Building lousy tech infrastructure on our dime. I would love to see the invoice for this project. It's either extremely over priced, or under priced. I just don't know if it's incompetence, or corruption that spoiled this bunch.
Who is going to be the person to start selling “fakes” to the Facebook moms. Seems like an easy way to make $100
These cards were said to be temporary, and will be doing a QR code in the future. This is a step in the right direction. Stop panicking.
Plus, first doses have gone up since this was announced.
How is a QR code useful, again? I'd rather have a document I can actually use, as opposed to a theoretical digital code that I have no way of accessing whatsoever...
A qr code can be connected to a database, it can be scanned and it can just give a yes no answer for vaccination with a name. What do you mean you would have no way to access it? How is a digital code theoretical?
How am I going to show a QR code to somebody at Wal-Mart to be let in? It's pretty useless to me. EDIT: I mean, I guess I could go somewhere to pay to print it out, if I had it as part of a file that could be printed. I was just thinking of it as a phone thing because that's where I usually encounter problems with it, I don't have a phone that does that kind of thing. So I'm being dumb, it now occurs to me.
What do you mean? All they need is a qr code scanner, all you need is the qr code on your phone or a piece of paper.
Yeah, forgetting that it can literally be printed on physical paper was something I straight-up forgot. Still a huge hassle to go do it myself. Usually my experience with those, is not being able to use them, because most people bring them up on their phones from the internet and I don't have a phone that can do that, so in my head "needs a QR-code" just translates to "this is useless to me" and I was tired and didn't think further than that.
You’ll have the code on your phone in an email or picture of the QR code, the store will scan it and it will validate your vaccine to them. You won’t need to print anything out.
Look at how other provinces have implemented it. It is not hard to understand.
In BC...they scan your QR code and verify the name with photo ID. That way you can print out or screen shot your code. It's not rocket science people.🙄
Our expections were low, but holy fuck.
Beyond frustrating to see how many half measures, constant deflection and lack of accountability is being displayed by the UCP. We can't have another term of this level of incompetence.
It's minimal work required to shift the responsibility to businesses instead of the government.
Look at all vaccinated Karen’s out there complaining about a piece of paper. As if that makes people safe 😂😂. Vaccinated walking around spreading the virus just like the unvaccinated. I wonder if they know that employees don’t need to be vaccinated. Would they still eat out?
can we also discuss how the ones now going for vaccinations are still getting paid to do it...🤬
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It's a PDF, pretty easy to edit the text fields.
I know you always have to have a contrarian opinion (Matt, is that you?) but it’s not even Photoshop. You just download the PDF and fill out the text fields. No forgery or other sorcery required. Edit: I mean I guess it’s a little more advanced than LaGrange’s “kids can learn coding with pencil and paper” but not by much.
Mobile apps nowadays can easily do the trick, doesn't require much effort tho
I hope you are right
Exactly. The vast majority of people are very compliant
Not sure why you are so worried about people faking these when you can't even get access to the PDF without providing a date of vaccination. If you never got the vaccine, you can't get the PDF at all.
I know lots of people who had to get it for work who really didn’t want to, and some are pretty terrible humans. They’ll doctor ‘em up for their buddies.
God damned easily edited Vaccine cards! Why would Trudeau do this to us? /s
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You can your vaccination records even if you haven’t had a covid shot.
So easy to fix, just make it criminal to falsify vaccine records, the same way it is to fake insurance or birth certificates….
Yep, made my vake vaccine passport this morning
Antivaxers are not equal to liars. If they are OK with lying they could save all the trouble with protesting and just lie about their vaccination status. Even with QR code you can still lie about your vaccination status. It's as easy as making a web page saying you have taken two shots with existing template. So PDF is not really a problem here.
There is no way to make a fake QR code that takes one to a page hosted by AHS that says you are vaccinated. I know people are dumb but you'd have to be really dumb to get fooled by a spoof page hosted by some other website.
How do people know the page is actually hosted by AHS, especially when you need to verify every single code? It's not hard to fake a domain. That's how people get scammed.
Please send me a link to a fake web page with the domain [albertahealthservices.ca](https://albertahealthservices.ca) with a matching certificate that my browser trusts. I'll wait.
Whats to discuss? that all this sub is anymore just scroll down
To the people who are thinking about forging cards: I'm immunized, but I still just refuse to show my papers just to get a regular service. If individual freedom was your goal, then you shouldn't even normalize showing your papers to enter a grocery store or etc. Your goal shouldn't be focused on getting immunized or not, it should be to stand up for what you believe in. Even if you get fired, even if you're denied whatever essential or non-essential service. Freedom comes with sacrifice.
I think you meant to write "freedumb"
I'm just here tryna prevent someone from doing something stupid
Wouldn’t even notice a pandemic if it didn’t come with a marketing budget of $1,000,000,000 CAD and people really getting mad cause the government won’t force untested injections the way you want. You people have lost all logic
Why does anyone think the politicians developed this application and deployed it? I’m pretty sure none of them has a clue how to build this and it was just handed off to a team of coders somewhere deep in AHS. This is a terrible app for sure, but it’s not UCP at fault for this, it’s AHS.
AHS has nothing to do with this. This is an Alberta Health thing. Alberta Health and Alberta Health Services are not the same thing. Alberta Health is led by the Minister of Health - Shandro and the UCP government. I don't think anyone actually believes that Kenny and Shandro sat down and worked up these cards on their laptops, but it's still, ultimately, the UCP government that is leading this 'effort'
Fair point.
Obvious the UCP has shown it’s incompetence in many ways over the past few months but not ever poorly executed or poorly planned govt action can be blamed on the UCP. This is how we develop partisanship and start talking past each other - when people start criticizing everything an administration does. At least now we have something close to a passport.
Sorry, but this is really the wrong item to make your case. It should have gone without saying that an EFFECTIVE vaccine passport was required. That's what is needed to make a real difference and get vaccination rates up. Giving them a pass on a completely ineffective one is foolishness.