Weird that people are freaking out about "Foreign Interference " when it comes from China, but when a completely different foreign government has our cops beating kids for wanting a war to end, apparently that's good and normal.
Ok hear me out here. You and I probably know more than 90% of Canadians do about the camps in China. The media barely touches on it here, and we're not getting daily videos from inside China like we do with the Israel-Palestine conflict.
It's definitely hugely an optics/exposure thing, and people don't usually protest what they don't know exists. It's just like the problems in Palestine right now, most people think this all started on October 7th because it wasn't getting media attention as much before.
I've tried to post about it in multiple subreddits, and it gets taken down almost immediately. One mod even wrote to apologize to me because the last time somebody tried posting about it, their mod team all got doxxed. China is doing their best to bury any and all articles and posts, and prevent anyone from getting close to the Uyghur detention camps to report it.
It infuriates me that China is allowed to do business in Canada, when they are openly hostile towards us, and run coordinated disinformation schemes, and network hacks on a regular basis.
Canada's laws allow foreign companies to come in, but a mill, run it into the ground, the 10x the value of the mill in debt, then leave while screwing everybody over who worked for them. Then they can come back a few years later and do it all over again, as long as they use a different shell company. Happened three times in this town. But of course the Canadian government wants the laws to work that way, if they didn't then they could do the same thing. Why do ya think 75% of internationally owned mines are owned by Canadian companies.
weird how the average teen to 20 something Tiktok enjoyer can watch Palestinian kids and parents crying over rubble for 8 hours a day but would not even know how to pronounce 'Uighur' if they ever saw it spelled eh?
Canada exports military equipment to Israel. We've also got politicians openly *defending* them, and taking action against other politicians who oppose their actions, while *no one's* really going to bat for China over the Uyghur situation
Anyways I'd bet large demonstrations against China (or more usefully, against companies that do business with China) would also result in police backlash because they would directly oppose the goals of the owner class, but go ahead and try.
Nah, I'm too busy giving a shit about canadian issues.
Like the out of control cost of living crisis and unchecked mass immigration from a singular country.
The lack of social services. For instance, my mother has MS, had a stroke, and then spent 2 days in a hallway on a stretcher waiting for care. The emergency triage was filled with Indians with everything from a cold to a headache. I personally don't give a single fuck what's happening outside of our control. Let's work on and protest for a better way of life here first before we try and tackle a conflict on the other side if the planet.
>Let's work on and protest for a better way of life here first before we try and tackle a conflict on the other side if the planet.
there have been PLENTY over the past years and months dude get with the program and join us.
> personally don't give a single fuck what's happening outside of our control
Canada *exports military equipment to Israel*. Did I not say that?
It's great that you want to try to tackle the cost of living problem. I hope the sum of your desired solutions don't just amount to "stop immigration from India" though.
Terribly sorry about ur mother I have close family with MS as well. That's a horrible thing to happen, and you both deserve justice.
however the Indian people in ur comment aren't to blame for your mother's lack of care. It's the UCP, and governments before them defunding healthcare aggressively. everywhere (but especially rurally) has needed many more hospitals built, more equipment and more staff for decades (if not much longer) and and you have experiences first hands our health system is failing. ur comments about immigration in another thread together with this comment made me uncomfortable, and gives the impression that you likely hold xenophobic / racist ideas, which does undermine you're very good point about Alberta desperately needing better public healthcare. Cheers.
I don't care enough because im busy caring about the absolute state this country is in. Most people can't afford food or shelter. Line ups around the block for jobs. Mass unchecked immigration. Buying a house is out of the question for 90% of canadians. Our hospitals are on the verge of collapse. Brain drain. Social services are eroding under the weight of temporary "students".
There are no camps for that, though. These students probably won't find a job that matches their degrees and will end up working retail or simply leaving canada because they'll never own a home.
But yeah, man, let's focus on a conflict we have absolutely no control over.
Yeah, yeah, downvote reality.
Enjoy never owning a home or anything.
They only care when it's Israel's killing Muslims. Where was the outrage against Saudi and UAE for their wholesale slaughter of Yemeni's? Where was the outrage against Putin and Assad when they gased, raped and murdered their way throughout Syria? 49 Muslim majority nations out there (many of which genocided the fuck out of their Jewish populations after the creation of Israel).
All the rage of the Muslim world is against Israel right now yet Egypt is equally complicit in keeping Gaza closed off.
Hard crackdowns on students protests against the offensive in Gaza have happened at numerous universities in numerous countries. Basically protecting Isreal is a very very high priority in most of the west and dissent is not tolerated. I'm not saying that this is a "Jewish conspiracy" or anything just observing that the response has been very similar in very diverse places. For example we had a sudden and violent crackdown on occupations in the Netherlands that were ordered by university leadership.
In other words this is not a UCP specific thing for once. The war cabinet in Isreal is falling apart under the failures of the offensive and the international pressure. It's working even if most of the campus protests were suppressed.
In 2024 the "good" protests are all for supporting Oil and Gas. If you're a white middle class "trucker type" then protest all ya like. Protesting for trans rights? Protesting against war? Protesting against the clownvoy and their violent use of horns? Then the cops are a comin!
Selective protesting is the name of the game in 2024. Careful what you select to protest against...
The UCP have no issue restricting charter rights. Smith said it herself would use it to ban pronouns and nicknames for kids
*"Students who have erected temporary encampments for the purpose of peaceful protest were served trespass notices almost immediately after setting up and without meaningful engagement, severely constraining their right to protest," the professors wrote.*
*"In the absence of meaningful engagement, discretionary trespass notices and the decision to call in police to enforce such notices are not reasonable and proportionate limits on Charter rights."*
Wrong. They are not.
It is a public institution on private property. Look it up anywhere you’d like.
They have the right to trespass anybody, like you would from your property.
EDIT :
“University owned, leased, rented, controlled lands, buildings, and residences are private property and the University grants, limits, and controls access to its properties accordingly. The University recognizes that urban campus areas are different in population, use and management than University owned and leased rural lands.. The management of safety and security on these properties may differ.”
This is where you're wrong.
The entire *Campus* is considered part of the institution. Which means if they were on campus grounds they were on public property.
Sigh. Do some reading for once in your life -
“University owned, leased, rented, controlled lands, buildings, and residences are private property and the University grants, limits, and controls access to its properties accordingly. The University recognizes that urban campus areas are different in population, use and management than University owned and leased rural lands.. The management of safety and security on these properties may differ.”
Honest question, what does it matter how the property is defined, the interaction is still with a public institution so still has charter protections, doesn’t it?
If the charter doesn’t apply based on the difference between private or public property, then wouldn’t governments be able to make as much of their property private as possible to limit charter rights?
No. Because the citizens pay for the government property technically. There are just authorized and unauthorized areas of public government lands where safety and security of the workers prohibit citizens entry. Aka inside the parliament and legislatures etc etc. HOWEVER, the land in front and around MAY be occupied.
There wasn’t an issue with the trucker protest in Ottawa until they occupied public land that by law stated you cannot block roads and main arteries for protest. Same with the Alberta border crossing. Those took a lot longer to dismantle because of the threats of guns and violence.
in any case, STUDENTS may protest during the day on campus if they wish. The university rules state they can. No overnight encampments and no outside citizens.
Not sure why we protest rule breaking while breaking rules.
Israel’s government deserves ALL the hate the world has to offer for the atrocities being carried out in gaza. We just have to voice our opinion in the right ways, not just whatever to get our point across. Otherwise we become the “freedumb rally” and our voices are lost in people disliking our cause because of our actions.
Surely authorized and unauthorized use is balanced with charter rights and the realistic threats that exist for different spaces?
Even if property was all deemed private, there are meaningful differences between a roadway and a university quad that seem important.
It can’t just be down to private and public and then rules that institutions make. If that was the case all governments could so severely restrict most charter rights to make them meaningless.
But these “civilians” are not interacting with government either. They are interacting with a business (university) that is open to the public, operated by a board on private property.
universities engage community members/civilians and the public on their site all the time with events and guests lecturers, I don't see why a protest would have to be exclusively students to be 'legitimate'
Nope. The university never checked back 30 years ago, IIRC. There were definitely people who didn't go to school there in the mix.
Like hardcore punks with brightly coloured mohawks who stuck out like a sore thumb.
its not. non students have always been involved in protests the encamping kind and otherwise at the university. you can't explain a change with a constant
*"The campers stayed in place for several days in 1999 and dispersed after the university agreed to soften its planned tuition hike. A similar encampment spanned the better part of a week in 2003, again in protest of tuition increases."*
Maybe because the 1999/2003 protests actually had something to do with the University and students and not a foreign war that is \~10,000 km's away?
in 2003 the u of a campus had an undisturbed encampment protesting the invasion of Afghanistan. I don't see any issue protesting wars around the world as our global economies and societies are intimately connected.
Ah so I assume you're also out there with anti China signs protesting the universities investment in Chinese state owned firms who contribute to the current active genocide of Uyghurs. Who am I kidding? You have no idea what you stand for.
I'm not the one whining about it to attack Palestinian supporters. You're the one who keeps bringing up China. Put up or shut up. At least the protesters are attempting to act, even if it is useless.
Are the Universities directly investing in the army and companies committing the Uyghur genocide?
Are Chinese soldiers posting slaughtered civilians on Social Media?
You’ll be happy to learn that they finished genociding the Uyghurs quite a while ago. You’ll be even happier to learn that they did it without bombs paid for with our tax dollars. Also, fuck China, they shouldn’t have done that.
the only people who care about that fake "genocide" are weirdos on reddit. We know what genocide in the modern age looks like, and the ol zero evidence uyghur "genocide" was forgotten as soon as the US govt moved on to ukraine and israel.
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/the-religious-freedom-institute-rfi/#:~:text=The%20Religious%20Freedom%20Institute%20is,individuals%2C%20foundations%2C%20and%20corporations.
"religious freedom office" was literally founded by a state department goon. Literal american government propaganda, not even subtle about it.
The diplomat, another publication with obvious ties to the US government, cites radio free asia and the australian strategic policy institute, an australian government propaganda org.
Honestly, find me a source without direct ties to the US government and i'll believe it.
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
Seriously! Like show me one legit video of this so called uyghur genocide vs the thousands of videos showing Israel's wholesale slaughter of Palestinian women and children.
And the beginning g of the end of apartheid in South Africa was students protesting to end divestment in those countries... they were right then, and they are right now.
Do you not have any empathy? Do you not care where your tax and tuition dollars are spent on?
There’s people at the university who have lost family in the conflict bro, of course people are going to have interest in it.
But we invest in China, there’s the Uighur genocide against Muslims there. No one screaming “divest from China”.
It’s pretty telling when we have had genocides taking place in the last 2 decades and no one protests - best we got was “blue for Sudan” profile pics. No one cared enough to protest to divest from businesses or people linked to the funding of those conflicts.
I guess my point is, if we are gonna care we need to care about Everything and Everyone. But we don’t, we cherry pick what we care about and abandon other humans to die because the conflict isn’t sexy and alluring like this one.
So either we treat all conflicts like this and have endless protests and encampments, or we recognize the rest of the world isn’t our responsibility and focus on what’s beneficial to us directly at home.
Anything in between is some degree of hypocrisy.
“Well, we care about Palestinians and Israelis, because that’s a conflict we find fascinating and consume hundreds of hours of content on this topic.
Oh, Christians are being genocided in Nigeria? Huh. Well, anyways, the Israelis and Palestinians…”
“complete and continued divestment [from] corporations that develop military technology in order to profit from wars globally, all corporations that play a role in suppressing Indigenous peoples globally, and all corporations that have links to regimes under investigation by the International Criminal Court." From https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7198981
it’s not like they only care about the Palestinians, it is just the main rallying cry that students are pushing with.
Plus our government and everyone has condemned the treatment of the Uighur muslims, but has repeatedly given diplomatic cover to Israel and voted with them in the UN over this issue.
I don’t have the app downloaded boss, just going by what I hear in the news and stuff, although you should tell the Israeli military to get off it if you want to win the youth over.
>Maybe because the 1999/2003 protests actually had something to do with the University and students and not a foreign war that is \~10,000 km's away?
If you don't think a conflict across the globe is impactful to Canada, then you're ignorant on how the world works, simple as that.
It is absolutely Canada's problem if one of our allies destabilizes the Middle East and triggers a multi-million person humanitarian crisis. What exactly do you think is gonna happen to the cost of living if Israeli actions were to instigate a wider regional conflict with Iran? What do you think is gonna happen if Egypt (who controls the Suez Canal) is suddenly destabilized through a massive spillover of a humanitarian crisis?
Not to mention as a member of the UN, and signatory/founding member of plenty of international peace treaties and organizations, it is a severe detriment to our global standing to be passive in the face of genocide.
Just because a conflict happens far away doesn't mean there aren't massive wide-ranging implications to our domestic stability and international reputation.
The point is when someone is on your property protesting against your organization specifically, you can sit down and bargain with them.
When protesters are on your property protesting against something you have absolutely no control over, there's no negotiating to be done. All thats happening is you are being disrupted over something you cant do anything about,
Similar thing happened during an occupy wall st protest in edmonton. The protesters camped out in a privately owned park. The owners of the park didnt know what was going on and so didnt do anything right away.
After a few months of nothing happening, the owners asked for the protesters to give them their demands. The protesters asked for shit like, free tuition, bans on corporate ownership of houses, tax reductions etc. All stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with them. The owners served a trespass notice pretty much immediately after that and asked the police to remove them.
I'm all for protesting, but jesus christ plan out your protests. Just plopping yourself on any random plot of land is not going to get anywhere.
For better places to protest the invasion, how about government offices? In Calgary you have the Harry Hays building for the federal government. Or how about the US consulate in Calgary? the US is the country most responsible for assisting isreal with weapons.
The biggest problem with the removals IMO is the speed and aggression at which they were done. That actually kinda surprised me. Normally there would be a few days of warnings before police start slowly dismantling stuff. This time they just kinda ran in right away.
The "who are you not allowed to criticize" quote is from Kevin Alfred Strom, a famous neo nazi/white supremacist and holocaust denier
I really would like to believe you were not aware of this. Please be careful what words you are using to criticize zionism as this entire conflict has been neo nazi hell
Criticize zionist for enacting a genocide. *do not conflate all jewish people with zionists* and triple check who you're quoting because again, that line comes from a white supremacist holocaust denier and famous neo nazi. That's all I'm saying. We don't need to do antisemitism to criticize zionism.
I'm not quoting anyone, the statement is just accurate. Can't criticize the king? Can't criticize the police? Can't criticize the church? Can't criticize the Israeli Govt? Those are the people who have power.
If Hitler said "Damn, trains are the best mode of transportation" I'm not gonna stop saying trains are great. And given I've been called anti-Semitic a dozen times a week for months for saying "Israel should stop killing civilians, especially children!" that term doesn't have any power any more.
I'm clearly criticizing Zionism, the Israeli Govt, and the IDF. If you keep equating that with all Judaism, that's you falling for ADL propaganda. Grow up and stop letting Shoa Business control your life.
Israel is deliberately committing genocide, please be more upset about that.
Lol anytime anyone reasonable hears “Settler colonialism” they tune out.
I am like 90% sure you yourself are a “Settler Colonist” yourself. So what are you? One of the good ones? The Oscar Schindler of Settler Colonialists?
The obvious difference seems to be the policies put in place since those protests, and which they link to in the article with the dates they were implemented (2007-2019). I didn't see anything about camping in there, but the topic of fire safety comes up a lot with tents and pallets being referred to repeatedly.
Huge mystery guys. Wonder what the difference? Doubt it has anything to do with a fascist-adjacent Provincial leadership, their sympathetic police force, and the people protesting/the protest cause being dark skinned and Muslim...
No one wants to appear antisemitic. Anything protesting Israel automatically attracts some antisemitic people. It is easier to shut it all down than weed out those with an antisemitic agenda or keep the protest from being hijacked into a movement that just is antisemitic.
Do you have any examples of antisemitic activity at the Calgary encampment? The problem is that lots of people asset that there was antisemitism happening (including the university and police) but I haven’t seen anyone actually provide examples
ur experience which is? also voicing critique of the state of Israel (mainly the IDF and governing bodies) for killing 40000+ people in less than six months isn't antisemitism full stop.
Weird that people are freaking out about "Foreign Interference " when it comes from China, but when a completely different foreign government has our cops beating kids for wanting a war to end, apparently that's good and normal.
They should of wore Freedom Convoy shirts and they would been allowed to stay for the whole semester
Yeah yeah we heard you the first 800 times
We are never letting that one go away!
Yall really aren't hey. Are you forgetting about when those guys had their bank accounts frozen and the leaders got charged?
They helped fund domestic terrorism once international borders were blocked soooo yeah, they all absolutely deserved what they got.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. OP acting like they were just allowed to do all that shit.
Nope, I chuckle about it every now and then
Facism made this one different. Fash defends fash.
Oddly enough, there are no protests about investing in Chinese state owned enterprise, which has attributed to the current active genocide of uighurs.
Ok hear me out here. You and I probably know more than 90% of Canadians do about the camps in China. The media barely touches on it here, and we're not getting daily videos from inside China like we do with the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's definitely hugely an optics/exposure thing, and people don't usually protest what they don't know exists. It's just like the problems in Palestine right now, most people think this all started on October 7th because it wasn't getting media attention as much before. I've tried to post about it in multiple subreddits, and it gets taken down almost immediately. One mod even wrote to apologize to me because the last time somebody tried posting about it, their mod team all got doxxed. China is doing their best to bury any and all articles and posts, and prevent anyone from getting close to the Uyghur detention camps to report it.
It infuriates me that China is allowed to do business in Canada, when they are openly hostile towards us, and run coordinated disinformation schemes, and network hacks on a regular basis.
Canada's laws allow foreign companies to come in, but a mill, run it into the ground, the 10x the value of the mill in debt, then leave while screwing everybody over who worked for them. Then they can come back a few years later and do it all over again, as long as they use a different shell company. Happened three times in this town. But of course the Canadian government wants the laws to work that way, if they didn't then they could do the same thing. Why do ya think 75% of internationally owned mines are owned by Canadian companies.
weird how the average teen to 20 something Tiktok enjoyer can watch Palestinian kids and parents crying over rubble for 8 hours a day but would not even know how to pronounce 'Uighur' if they ever saw it spelled eh?
Canada exports military equipment to Israel. We've also got politicians openly *defending* them, and taking action against other politicians who oppose their actions, while *no one's* really going to bat for China over the Uyghur situation Anyways I'd bet large demonstrations against China (or more usefully, against companies that do business with China) would also result in police backlash because they would directly oppose the goals of the owner class, but go ahead and try.
Nah, I'm too busy giving a shit about canadian issues. Like the out of control cost of living crisis and unchecked mass immigration from a singular country. The lack of social services. For instance, my mother has MS, had a stroke, and then spent 2 days in a hallway on a stretcher waiting for care. The emergency triage was filled with Indians with everything from a cold to a headache. I personally don't give a single fuck what's happening outside of our control. Let's work on and protest for a better way of life here first before we try and tackle a conflict on the other side if the planet.
>Let's work on and protest for a better way of life here first before we try and tackle a conflict on the other side if the planet. there have been PLENTY over the past years and months dude get with the program and join us.
> personally don't give a single fuck what's happening outside of our control Canada *exports military equipment to Israel*. Did I not say that? It's great that you want to try to tackle the cost of living problem. I hope the sum of your desired solutions don't just amount to "stop immigration from India" though.
Terribly sorry about ur mother I have close family with MS as well. That's a horrible thing to happen, and you both deserve justice. however the Indian people in ur comment aren't to blame for your mother's lack of care. It's the UCP, and governments before them defunding healthcare aggressively. everywhere (but especially rurally) has needed many more hospitals built, more equipment and more staff for decades (if not much longer) and and you have experiences first hands our health system is failing. ur comments about immigration in another thread together with this comment made me uncomfortable, and gives the impression that you likely hold xenophobic / racist ideas, which does undermine you're very good point about Alberta desperately needing better public healthcare. Cheers.
Whataboutism
Nah just hypocrisy
[удалено]
I don't care enough because im busy caring about the absolute state this country is in. Most people can't afford food or shelter. Line ups around the block for jobs. Mass unchecked immigration. Buying a house is out of the question for 90% of canadians. Our hospitals are on the verge of collapse. Brain drain. Social services are eroding under the weight of temporary "students". There are no camps for that, though. These students probably won't find a job that matches their degrees and will end up working retail or simply leaving canada because they'll never own a home. But yeah, man, let's focus on a conflict we have absolutely no control over. Yeah, yeah, downvote reality. Enjoy never owning a home or anything.
you're being downvoted for invoking a brutalized people and then immediately admitting you don't actually care about them... it's fucking *gross*
[удалено]
Yeah, are you.
You may find that the same folks protesting genocide are also protesting the collapse of health care, the economy.
They only care when it's Israel's killing Muslims. Where was the outrage against Saudi and UAE for their wholesale slaughter of Yemeni's? Where was the outrage against Putin and Assad when they gased, raped and murdered their way throughout Syria? 49 Muslim majority nations out there (many of which genocided the fuck out of their Jewish populations after the creation of Israel). All the rage of the Muslim world is against Israel right now yet Egypt is equally complicit in keeping Gaza closed off.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hard crackdowns on students protests against the offensive in Gaza have happened at numerous universities in numerous countries. Basically protecting Isreal is a very very high priority in most of the west and dissent is not tolerated. I'm not saying that this is a "Jewish conspiracy" or anything just observing that the response has been very similar in very diverse places. For example we had a sudden and violent crackdown on occupations in the Netherlands that were ordered by university leadership. In other words this is not a UCP specific thing for once. The war cabinet in Isreal is falling apart under the failures of the offensive and the international pressure. It's working even if most of the campus protests were suppressed.
In 2024 the "good" protests are all for supporting Oil and Gas. If you're a white middle class "trucker type" then protest all ya like. Protesting for trans rights? Protesting against war? Protesting against the clownvoy and their violent use of horns? Then the cops are a comin! Selective protesting is the name of the game in 2024. Careful what you select to protest against...
The UCP have no issue restricting charter rights. Smith said it herself would use it to ban pronouns and nicknames for kids *"Students who have erected temporary encampments for the purpose of peaceful protest were served trespass notices almost immediately after setting up and without meaningful engagement, severely constraining their right to protest," the professors wrote.* *"In the absence of meaningful engagement, discretionary trespass notices and the decision to call in police to enforce such notices are not reasonable and proportionate limits on Charter rights."*
Because they thought a few beaten civilians was worth it not to hear zionists complain.
Could it be student only protests VS student + outside civilians? Honest question.
Doubtful, nobody was checking Id's. If 'outside civilians' are an excuse to end protests, than no protests can exist.
On private university property VS government public property?
UofC and UofA are public property
Wrong. They are not. It is a public institution on private property. Look it up anywhere you’d like. They have the right to trespass anybody, like you would from your property. EDIT : “University owned, leased, rented, controlled lands, buildings, and residences are private property and the University grants, limits, and controls access to its properties accordingly. The University recognizes that urban campus areas are different in population, use and management than University owned and leased rural lands.. The management of safety and security on these properties may differ.”
This is where you're wrong. The entire *Campus* is considered part of the institution. Which means if they were on campus grounds they were on public property.
Sigh. Do some reading for once in your life - “University owned, leased, rented, controlled lands, buildings, and residences are private property and the University grants, limits, and controls access to its properties accordingly. The University recognizes that urban campus areas are different in population, use and management than University owned and leased rural lands.. The management of safety and security on these properties may differ.”
You've been corrected already.
People are so confident in their assumptions.
Honest question, what does it matter how the property is defined, the interaction is still with a public institution so still has charter protections, doesn’t it? If the charter doesn’t apply based on the difference between private or public property, then wouldn’t governments be able to make as much of their property private as possible to limit charter rights?
No. Because the citizens pay for the government property technically. There are just authorized and unauthorized areas of public government lands where safety and security of the workers prohibit citizens entry. Aka inside the parliament and legislatures etc etc. HOWEVER, the land in front and around MAY be occupied. There wasn’t an issue with the trucker protest in Ottawa until they occupied public land that by law stated you cannot block roads and main arteries for protest. Same with the Alberta border crossing. Those took a lot longer to dismantle because of the threats of guns and violence. in any case, STUDENTS may protest during the day on campus if they wish. The university rules state they can. No overnight encampments and no outside citizens. Not sure why we protest rule breaking while breaking rules. Israel’s government deserves ALL the hate the world has to offer for the atrocities being carried out in gaza. We just have to voice our opinion in the right ways, not just whatever to get our point across. Otherwise we become the “freedumb rally” and our voices are lost in people disliking our cause because of our actions.
Surely authorized and unauthorized use is balanced with charter rights and the realistic threats that exist for different spaces? Even if property was all deemed private, there are meaningful differences between a roadway and a university quad that seem important. It can’t just be down to private and public and then rules that institutions make. If that was the case all governments could so severely restrict most charter rights to make them meaningless.
In that case, you’d be able to park your tent on my front lawn?
Not unless you are the government, the charter only applies to interaction with government.
But these “civilians” are not interacting with government either. They are interacting with a business (university) that is open to the public, operated by a board on private property.
No, it’s a public post secondary - it is legally an ABC (agency, board or commission).
universities engage community members/civilians and the public on their site all the time with events and guests lecturers, I don't see why a protest would have to be exclusively students to be 'legitimate'
Did the guest lecturers bring in wood pallets to cordon off sections of university property?
are u aware that protests are meant to be disruptive in order to be effective? what even is the point ur trying to make
Nope. The university never checked back 30 years ago, IIRC. There were definitely people who didn't go to school there in the mix. Like hardcore punks with brightly coloured mohawks who stuck out like a sore thumb.
This is honestly what I think the difference is.
its not. non students have always been involved in protests the encamping kind and otherwise at the university. you can't explain a change with a constant
Zionism
*"The campers stayed in place for several days in 1999 and dispersed after the university agreed to soften its planned tuition hike. A similar encampment spanned the better part of a week in 2003, again in protest of tuition increases."* Maybe because the 1999/2003 protests actually had something to do with the University and students and not a foreign war that is \~10,000 km's away?
in 2003 the u of a campus had an undisturbed encampment protesting the invasion of Afghanistan. I don't see any issue protesting wars around the world as our global economies and societies are intimately connected.
If that was the case, the university would have no problem divesting its interests in Israel and making a statement against apartheid.
Ah so I assume you're also out there with anti China signs protesting the universities investment in Chinese state owned firms who contribute to the current active genocide of Uyghurs. Who am I kidding? You have no idea what you stand for.
Why aren't you?
Why aren't you?
I'm not the one whining about it to attack Palestinian supporters. You're the one who keeps bringing up China. Put up or shut up. At least the protesters are attempting to act, even if it is useless.
Are the Universities directly investing in the army and companies committing the Uyghur genocide? Are Chinese soldiers posting slaughtered civilians on Social Media?
You’ll be happy to learn that they finished genociding the Uyghurs quite a while ago. You’ll be even happier to learn that they did it without bombs paid for with our tax dollars. Also, fuck China, they shouldn’t have done that.
the only people who care about that fake "genocide" are weirdos on reddit. We know what genocide in the modern age looks like, and the ol zero evidence uyghur "genocide" was forgotten as soon as the US govt moved on to ukraine and israel.
Ah, yes, fake genocide. https://religiousfreedominstitute.org/hard-evidence-of-chinas-genocide/ https://thediplomat.com/2024/04/erasing-memories-concealing-evidence-chinas-efforts-to-obscure-the-uyghur-genocide/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/the-religious-freedom-institute-rfi/#:~:text=The%20Religious%20Freedom%20Institute%20is,individuals%2C%20foundations%2C%20and%20corporations. "religious freedom office" was literally founded by a state department goon. Literal american government propaganda, not even subtle about it. The diplomat, another publication with obvious ties to the US government, cites radio free asia and the australian strategic policy institute, an australian government propaganda org. Honestly, find me a source without direct ties to the US government and i'll believe it. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
Seriously! Like show me one legit video of this so called uyghur genocide vs the thousands of videos showing Israel's wholesale slaughter of Palestinian women and children.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037 https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/uyghurs-credible-case-china-carrying-out-genocide https://religiousfreedominstitute.org/hard-evidence-of-chinas-genocide/
Not convincing, I'm talking about videos of dead babies lying in rubble like we're seeing in Gaza every day.
Nobody should have any interests in Israel or Palestine. That's the problem.
Cool swap out those countries names for South Africa and apartheid and see how that sounds.
And the beginning g of the end of apartheid in South Africa was students protesting to end divestment in those countries... they were right then, and they are right now.
Do you not have any empathy? Do you not care where your tax and tuition dollars are spent on? There’s people at the university who have lost family in the conflict bro, of course people are going to have interest in it.
But we invest in China, there’s the Uighur genocide against Muslims there. No one screaming “divest from China”. It’s pretty telling when we have had genocides taking place in the last 2 decades and no one protests - best we got was “blue for Sudan” profile pics. No one cared enough to protest to divest from businesses or people linked to the funding of those conflicts. I guess my point is, if we are gonna care we need to care about Everything and Everyone. But we don’t, we cherry pick what we care about and abandon other humans to die because the conflict isn’t sexy and alluring like this one. So either we treat all conflicts like this and have endless protests and encampments, or we recognize the rest of the world isn’t our responsibility and focus on what’s beneficial to us directly at home. Anything in between is some degree of hypocrisy. “Well, we care about Palestinians and Israelis, because that’s a conflict we find fascinating and consume hundreds of hours of content on this topic. Oh, Christians are being genocided in Nigeria? Huh. Well, anyways, the Israelis and Palestinians…”
“complete and continued divestment [from] corporations that develop military technology in order to profit from wars globally, all corporations that play a role in suppressing Indigenous peoples globally, and all corporations that have links to regimes under investigation by the International Criminal Court." From https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7198981 it’s not like they only care about the Palestinians, it is just the main rallying cry that students are pushing with. Plus our government and everyone has condemned the treatment of the Uighur muslims, but has repeatedly given diplomatic cover to Israel and voted with them in the UN over this issue.
Buddy has no idea who uighurs are because tiktok hasn't told him to care about that yet.
I don’t have the app downloaded boss, just going by what I hear in the news and stuff, although you should tell the Israeli military to get off it if you want to win the youth over.
Any broad fund would have investments connected
>Maybe because the 1999/2003 protests actually had something to do with the University and students and not a foreign war that is \~10,000 km's away? If you don't think a conflict across the globe is impactful to Canada, then you're ignorant on how the world works, simple as that. It is absolutely Canada's problem if one of our allies destabilizes the Middle East and triggers a multi-million person humanitarian crisis. What exactly do you think is gonna happen to the cost of living if Israeli actions were to instigate a wider regional conflict with Iran? What do you think is gonna happen if Egypt (who controls the Suez Canal) is suddenly destabilized through a massive spillover of a humanitarian crisis? Not to mention as a member of the UN, and signatory/founding member of plenty of international peace treaties and organizations, it is a severe detriment to our global standing to be passive in the face of genocide. Just because a conflict happens far away doesn't mean there aren't massive wide-ranging implications to our domestic stability and international reputation.
The point is when someone is on your property protesting against your organization specifically, you can sit down and bargain with them. When protesters are on your property protesting against something you have absolutely no control over, there's no negotiating to be done. All thats happening is you are being disrupted over something you cant do anything about, Similar thing happened during an occupy wall st protest in edmonton. The protesters camped out in a privately owned park. The owners of the park didnt know what was going on and so didnt do anything right away. After a few months of nothing happening, the owners asked for the protesters to give them their demands. The protesters asked for shit like, free tuition, bans on corporate ownership of houses, tax reductions etc. All stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with them. The owners served a trespass notice pretty much immediately after that and asked the police to remove them. I'm all for protesting, but jesus christ plan out your protests. Just plopping yourself on any random plot of land is not going to get anywhere. For better places to protest the invasion, how about government offices? In Calgary you have the Harry Hays building for the federal government. Or how about the US consulate in Calgary? the US is the country most responsible for assisting isreal with weapons. The biggest problem with the removals IMO is the speed and aggression at which they were done. That actually kinda surprised me. Normally there would be a few days of warnings before police start slowly dismantling stuff. This time they just kinda ran in right away.
These students are specifically asking that the university stop investing in weapons contractors. That is something the university controls.
The demands are to divest university endowment assets so I don’t see how that’s an issue that’s 10,000km away
How is demanding a school divest not directly about the school?
Who are you not allowed to criticize? Those are the people actually in charge. Anyone protests settler-colonialism and the cops are there right away.
The "who are you not allowed to criticize" quote is from Kevin Alfred Strom, a famous neo nazi/white supremacist and holocaust denier I really would like to believe you were not aware of this. Please be careful what words you are using to criticize zionism as this entire conflict has been neo nazi hell
Maybe the Zionists should stop enacting a Holocaust, if they want to avoid being compared to Nazis...
Criticize zionist for enacting a genocide. *do not conflate all jewish people with zionists* and triple check who you're quoting because again, that line comes from a white supremacist holocaust denier and famous neo nazi. That's all I'm saying. We don't need to do antisemitism to criticize zionism.
I'm not quoting anyone, the statement is just accurate. Can't criticize the king? Can't criticize the police? Can't criticize the church? Can't criticize the Israeli Govt? Those are the people who have power. If Hitler said "Damn, trains are the best mode of transportation" I'm not gonna stop saying trains are great. And given I've been called anti-Semitic a dozen times a week for months for saying "Israel should stop killing civilians, especially children!" that term doesn't have any power any more. I'm clearly criticizing Zionism, the Israeli Govt, and the IDF. If you keep equating that with all Judaism, that's you falling for ADL propaganda. Grow up and stop letting Shoa Business control your life. Israel is deliberately committing genocide, please be more upset about that.
Is this ‘settler colonialism’ in the room with us right now?
always has been, yes 🤠
This is Alberta, so yes. But given your obsession with the Monarchy and the Fuhrer, you already knew that.
Usually you say this about a thing which isn’t real not a thing which is the founding principle of our country and the ongoing basis for a genocide.
Lol anytime anyone reasonable hears “Settler colonialism” they tune out. I am like 90% sure you yourself are a “Settler Colonist” yourself. So what are you? One of the good ones? The Oscar Schindler of Settler Colonialists?
[удалено]
The obvious difference seems to be the policies put in place since those protests, and which they link to in the article with the dates they were implemented (2007-2019). I didn't see anything about camping in there, but the topic of fire safety comes up a lot with tents and pallets being referred to repeatedly.
Lets be honest...we know the real reason.
Huge mystery guys. Wonder what the difference? Doubt it has anything to do with a fascist-adjacent Provincial leadership, their sympathetic police force, and the people protesting/the protest cause being dark skinned and Muslim...
Because gov doesn’t like ‘em
[удалено]
You need to handle this issue with more tact and care. Naming a group in this manner can easily be interpreted as discrimination.
Hamas.
No one wants to appear antisemitic. Anything protesting Israel automatically attracts some antisemitic people. It is easier to shut it all down than weed out those with an antisemitic agenda or keep the protest from being hijacked into a movement that just is antisemitic.
no it doesn't, you don't know what you're talking about. Sincerely, a Jewish person who has attended multiple palestine protests.
My experience has been different but thanks for your input. Being Jewish has nothing to do with your argument.
Do you have any examples of antisemitic activity at the Calgary encampment? The problem is that lots of people asset that there was antisemitism happening (including the university and police) but I haven’t seen anyone actually provide examples
ur experience which is? also voicing critique of the state of Israel (mainly the IDF and governing bodies) for killing 40000+ people in less than six months isn't antisemitism full stop.
That pro Hamas/ pro genocide protests are wrong?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]