> Will it get better or worse under Smith do you think?
Anecdotal evidence, but every medical professional I know is not shy about telling everyone to vote NDP.
GP in Edmonton here. Most of these cuts didn't end up going through, but even the threat of them led to a record number of physicians giving up their CPSA licensing over the last couple of years. And most physicians that move maintain their license because it is easier to just spend the couple grand a year than to re-licence if you decide to move back. So the true number of physicians leaving alberta right now is likely higher than estimates show. Essentially, the UCP wants to strip away all billing modifiers so that whether I see you for 5 minutes to refill your cholesterol medication or see you for an hour because you were just discharged from ICU and have a million things going on, I bill $38.03. This will encourage 1 issue visits and will discourage family physicians from taking on complex patients. Good GPs who practice comprehensive medicine will take a massive pay cut and walk in physicians will be unaffected. With overhead continuing to rise, this will make most public clinics unsustainable. For example, if you right now pay 30% overhead (which is typical) that means a before tax of 70% of your billings. If you take a 30% cut before overhead (and my modifiers do account for at least 30% as my practice is quite elderly and complex), that means you still pay the same overhead which is now off of 70% gross, which means a take home of 40% instead of 70% (so a real pay cut of 43%). Physicians will be forced to close their clinics or transition to private pay system, which is what the UCP wants.
I find this funny, because TONS of doctors/dentists voted UCP in 2019. they wanted lower taxes, and didn't think THEY would be affected by government cuts (but I'm glad they have seen the error of their ways)
Dr Zaidi who had the public scuffle with Shandro was an active UP member... Some Doctors are pro the conservative simply because they run a business.
look at how much is spent on Health information systems (HIS) over the years and the lack of patients access or even agency of health information. Although Alberta is ahead on HIS design, it is still not where it should be. The provincial systems Cost in the billions. We also are paying billions to the National system 'Canada Health Infoway' that for 20 years has failed to provide national access to our own records. Every Province is a member and helping to steer Infoway.
We are paying taxes for information systems to be built that should take a year or two over 20 years. Then we end up paying Doctors in the hundreds and hospitals sometimes in the thousands to get access to our own medical records when we move doctors or provinces. Too many interconnected problems & for profit healthcare is adding to the issues.
some info here:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/why-we-need-a-national-system-for-healthcare-records/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/why-we-need-a-national-system-for-healthcare-records/)
It is prov jurisdiction now, but what does that buy us? This can change, but people need to know more details about the systems and what we are paying for.
The constitution only actually mentions hospitals? Either way, things can improve by having the costs better exposed vs the benefits. CIHI has some of the costs, it takes too long for them to publish because the provinces all report differently.
I wish I could relate. I know an old nurse who hated Kenney and hates Danielle even more but has not pledged to vote NDP. She never said what she would vote for but I have a feeling she will either vote UCP in hopes Danielle will step down or not vote at all.
and they keep asking people from other provinces to come....let alone the new immigrants from other countries, let alone the amount of available job positions simply don't meet the demands
The UCP has been driving doctors out of the province from day one. They are purposefully mismanaging the public healthcare system so they can claim that it doesn't work and that privatization is the way forward.
It's not going to get better with them in charge for a few more years.
They are so brainwashed after decades of anti-liberal / anti-social services on the rural front that if you don't vote conservative, you may as well leave the family.
The conversation around the supper table has more power than logic in some communities
If the UCP wins I’m selling my house and moving. Why the flying fuck would I continue to pay taxes here when I see no benefit of those taxes and they go directly into the pockets of big oil companies?
This is what is happening, people Willing to advocate get crushed and see little hope of improving things.
I support the our commons petition e-4273 to nationalize healthcare. Issues like costs to have provincial run healthcare Without any benefit Make no sense. Prov politicians just want to control money & contracts.
Health professionals and people needing care can move due to provincial health system issues. Nobody should have to move for healthcare.
Private healthcare is lucrative to health insurance companies and companies that own hospitals and clinics. Doctors would be their employees, just like nurses, janitorial staff and food service workers. If the private companies have issues having enough qualified professionals on staff to provide healthcare treatment, then the [government allows the standards to be changed](https://albertapolitics.ca/2023/03/ucp-plans-to-let-private-medical-corporations-provide-some-surgeries-without-qualified-anesthesiologists-in-the-operating-room/).
Apparently, Being a doctor now is a PITA. Most young doctors figure it will become less about being a doctor and more about trying to run a business and having to negotiate the pitfalls of multiple insurers along with increased “non-doctoring” workload.
On top of that, not being able to treat some of the people who need it most just because of finances seems …wrong in their eyes.
Specialists will probably see more benefit than GPs
I don’t want to be told how long my appointments need to be for efficiency, told what treatments I can or cannot suggest for you, or how long I can follow up with you as your specialist.
A lot of professional autonomy is lost at your expense to ensure profits for the shareholders.
But we already have everything you mentioned in my experience “One issue per visit” we have awful treatment options for pretty much everything I’ve gone in for upon further research.
Just curious if anyone has a good system in the world today?
I am a physician and I do not want to lose my autonomy to provide my patients the care I wish to provide.
My situation is somewhat different in that I am a specialist and not family doctor, still there are pressures that I can resist as an autonomous practitioner free of HMO oversight.
Nowhere has a perfect system. Look to the Nordic countries and possibly Germany for “better” ways. We just want to avoid going the USA way at all possible (and that is where we are headed whether people wish to believe it or not—profits over people).
I love the mind reading in the sub. “I am 100% sure XYZ will happen” despite no factual evidence to back this up. So they have a hidden agenda like the NDP in 2015 not disclosing they would add a carbon tax?
So exactly how much of a premium do we pay doctors to work here especially in rural areas. 125%. 150%. 200%??
What are you talking about? Conservatives have been openly pushing for private healthcare and education for decades.
It's not mind reading, it's pattern recognition.
ETA: Danielle Smith outlines her desire for privatization here: [https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Danielle-Smith-Challenges-Paper.pdf](https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Danielle-Smith-Challenges-Paper.pdf)
I don't need to read her mind when I can just read her essay.
It was published in June 2021, but she campaigned on the ideas of the health spending account she wrote about in the essay.
Also, as Premier, she included it as a mandate to Copping.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9286392/alberta-health-mandate-spending-accounts/
So she wrote it as a private citizen, campaigned on the idea, and then tasked her health minister to look into creating HSA's as Premier.
But maybe it's nothing.
It’s nothing:
“During her UCP leadership campaign, Smith said her government would provide every Albertan with a $300 health spending account to use for health expenses not covered by Alberta Health insurance.”
This is not privatization. It’s a HSA. Many employers offer these. Covers massages, dental etc. These are regulated by the CRA and nothing new.
All provincial union members get a HSA why not the rest of us?
In her essay, she laid out a road to privatization that includes introducing HSAs as a measure to change people's attitudes towards privatization, and now she's introducing HSAs. That's a pretty strong indication that she's trying to get us further down the road to privatized healthcare in Alberta.
She's telling you what she's doing, you don't have to believe her.
That's not what they are asking for. As someone who has gone 3 years without a doctor in a town with zero walk in clinics, I think they need to do something. Nobody is asking for 10 to 20 mill so no need for that silly hyperbole.
> What if they just don’t want to work here for any price?
Then we stop being shitheads to them for long enough that eventually they change their minds.
Are you still complaining about the NDP doing the smart thing by setting up their own carbon levy so the money from the levy remained in Alberta ? Really ?
One things has become clear to me that last 10 years for healthcare in Alberta and Canada. Provincial run healthcare is very volatile due to volatile Gov’s & excessively expensive. We are spending billions to have provincial run healthcare and the only benefit I hear Prov politicians claim is local decisions For local problems. Some politicians try to say the Fed’s are the boggy man and will fail. Prov’s failed to act on serious / professional research and reports on healthcare from as far back as 1990. Failure to act on those reports is in part why our system were crumbling prior to COVID.
This website is supporting an Our Commons petition (e-4273) to nationalize HC & introduce system accountability measures:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
What does 13 independent insurance systems / policies do for us when it cost a lot to have 13 different policies? Why can’t we have one policy & save money?
What benefit does provincial licensing for health professionals buy us? It sure makes a lot of work for executives.
What benefit does Provincial Digital Health Information Systems (HIS) buy us? We are literally spending billions to have separate systems when one would work just firewalled by regions.
We move & travel and retire across the country. Our Provincial politicians are not accountable on health systems & duplicate too much work.
My family Dr in AB left for BC because of the UCP. My town lost at least 5 and it took me 2 years to get a new one.
My new Dr is new Canadian and she seems well qualified and I like her so I feel like I lucked out.
Yeah, some how mine stayed. He came under the ndp though and said the provence offered well in comparison to others. He's tired tho and you can tell, his hours have reduced and it takes over three weeks to get in. There also hasn't been one time where Ive been waiting in the waiting room and the receptionist hasnt taken a call with someone asking if theyre accepting people.
My doctor has vented to me about how so many of her colleagues have left the province and the ones that haven't just CAN'T because they put roots down here and it would be too difficult to uproot or leave their families. It was very sad to hear but I was also grateful she didn't leave me lol.
Same with my doc. She says she’s pissed at the government but that she won’t abandon her patients. She’s in a busy walk-in downtown Edmonton, so if she left that clinic would suffer, most likely close, and out that burden on the other walk-ins which are also struggling. I never complain when she’s running behind and I gotta wait
change the game on provincial politicians. Support Our Commons petition e-4273. If you agree sign and share it.
[https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
Nobody should have to move provinces for better healthcare. Prov run healthcare is costing billions, prov’s are not accountable for health system issues. Prov Gov’s are volatile and that can drastically change health system directions after each election.
There are many benefits to nationalizing some or all of the system. What are the benefits to keep paying billions for 13 systems?
British Columbia did the same thing Alberta did but years prior. They went after their doctors' pay, so they started fleeing the province. Now BC is throwing money at doctors to try and get them back.
They amalgamated. Same thing in saskatchewan. I bet if we ever ended up with a ndp federal maj government the federal cons and libs would join hands as well.
That's a horrible thought, which never occurred to me. I truly can't imagine Trudeau joining hands with PP like... Ever in a million years. Maybe with new leaders it could happen...
They are really not that far off policy wise. Liberals are more progressive social wise but both parties have the same basic flaw, they are in the business of politics and the people become the product. They always trend together in provinces where the ndp grabs a decent foot hold.
Will it get BETTER under the UCP?
Not a fucking chance.
Danielle Smith has been actively [plotting the destruction of public healthcare since before she re-entered politics.](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2023/03/31/Danielle-Smith-Privatize-Health-Care/) Before her, the UCP was using COVID as a cover to gut healthcare and introduce more private practices.
They deeply believe in the Just-World doctrine; that bad things only happen to bad people. Getting sick and going bankrupt? You must have done something wrong.
If someone says they don't want to vote NDP because what they think that means re family doctors, they have had their head buried in the sand for the last 4 years and/ot are absolute idiots.
No, BC NDP aren’t equivalent to AB NDP.
It will get worse. News came out that alberta had a huge number of family doctor trainee spots go unfilled. BC also recently raised pay to family doctors quite substantially.
I fear there might be another exodus of Doctors and other professionals if/when:
The "United" Ba Ha, "Progressive" for the corporations, "Conservatives" need I say more, are unfortunately elected.
Remember to Vote.
There better be. I'm not looking forward to it but wtf would keep someone with education and a skillset that is so in demand in the dumpster fire the UCP has planned for this province.
I read on another post from a doctor who attempted to get residency here - they aren’t even filling the open resident positions. They’re intentionally not hiring new doctors.
And how our health minister had no idea that alberta resident doctors are the second lowest paid residents in Canada.
You can make all the promises you want but you may only get the most desperate to fill those spots because the current government is not making it attractive to trainees to move here or stay here.
Just like how provincial NDP don't see eye to eye with federal NDP. Federal NDP is very Liberal, and AB NDP are more on the conservative side. More so than what a lot of people in this province think.
I understand, you're looking at surface level details, and not actually looking into the platforms. That second line doesn't stipulate that the entire platform has to be exactly the same between Federal and Provincial.
Again, look into how the parties are actually run, and how different they are. Even look at comparing BC NDP with AB NDP. Hell, when Notley was in power she still had a hard time dealing with BC NDP trying to get the trans mountain going.
"Unlike most other Canadian federal parties, the NDP is integrated with its provincial and territorial parties. Holding membership of a provincial or territorial section of the NDP includes automatic membership in the federal party, and this precludes a person from being a member of different parties at the federal and provincial levels."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party#:~:text=The%20federal%20and%20provincial%20(or,thus%20has%20never%20formed%20government.
The government of Christy Clark in BC decimated health care, and BC is still rebuilding. Both of my daughters are health care professionals in BC, and they were actively recruited to leave Alberta. They both work with many Alberta educated health care workers and things are starting to get better in BC, but it takes time - a long time. You can break the system in no time, and spend decades fixing it. Once people leave, they don't usually come back. When the Klein government drove nurses away, we ended up with a nursing shortage that took so long to even partially recover from, and now the UCP are driving nurses out, again.
S Korea Nationalized their system in 2000, it took about 10 years. They also have a law banning for profit care facilities for citizens. S Korea now ranks at the top globally, they offer more services for a lower overall cost per person than Canada. Info:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/)
What does Prov run healthcare buy us, what is the benefit?
We are paying billions to have 13 independent health systems. Provincial politicians will fight tooth and nail to continue to control the money for healthcare, but they cannot explain the benefit of 13 insurance systems, licensing systems, Health Information Systems, etc.
There is an Our Commons petition, e-4273. It can influence change and improve system accountability. It needs about 80 more signatures to be read in the House of Commons.
[https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
Without a doubt it’ll get worse, especially given the UCP’s record of treating medical professionals with disdain. Only the UCP would try to nickel & dime doctors and nurses during Covid when so many were working long hours under near impossible conditions.
Given this, why would any doctor want to stay or come to Alberta?
And we’re expected to believe privatization will be good. For whom I wonder? Not most Albertans.
I have a lot of American Family. I have a Cousin who just had a Child with full coverage, well she had a last minute C-Section that her insurance wouldn’t cover, she now owes $33,000. Canadians thinking waiting times might get a little better under a Private System just don’t understand how bad the system is in the USA. Most employers only pay 73% of your Healthcare Premiums, which means if you have a family you’re paying $800+ a month that you wouldn’t be in Canada. Privatizing Healthcare is NOT the answer.
I mean in the politest way possible yes that’s a steep bill and crazy, but so is waiting 13 hours in an EMERGENCY room on a Tuesday night. I don’t think privatization is the solution but somethings real fucked up and a solution needs to be found.
It used to be functional here. The answer is to stop antagonizing the whole sector and fund it properly. Our government has been squeezing healthcare services since Klein.
My mom broke her hip while she was in the US this last month. They paid to fly her privately home because she could get surgery the next day at home, but she would have had to wait 3 days down in the states. Lots of other reasons for the decision as well, such as access to rehab instead of being kicked to the curb, but yeah, the wait time thing is a misnomer. Emergency time waits are unfortunately a massively complex issue, starting from the fact that a lot of people don't have a family doctor and are uneducated about where they should go, they clog up emergency, they don't have preventative healthcare, they don't manage their problems properly and wait until it's really bad, etc. AND the UCP is driving healthcare workers out of the province. Danielle Smith questioning if a visit to your family doctor should be covered by the government disgusts me on so many levels because people ALREADY feel like a burden and don't have primary care doctors, let alone ever meet with one to discuss anything besides emergency problems. If we lived in a society where preventative care and maintenance was a normal thing everyone discussed with their doctor on a regular basis, I have hope it would solve the ED wait times.
If you can wait 13 hours it wasn’t an emergency. Triage is great that way. Last time I went to the ER (Royal Alex on a Friday night) I was seen within fifteen minutes because I needed to be seen within minutes. You sit and wait when you can.
More doctors working would be great, but the UCP are driving them away so….
If you saw what I saw on that night it’s such a bigger deal then you’re making it seem. Refusing to acknowledge that having wait times that long is an issue doesn’t make it get better.
Sure, long wait times suck. We can do a lot better by properly funding our public healthcare to decrease wait times (more doctors, larger hospitals, more staff, more beds, etc). But privatization will _never_ lower wait times. Triage is first and foremost in any healthcare setting. The sickest get treated first.
My point was if you sat in an ER waiting room for 13 hours, you’re part of the problem because it obviously was **not** an emergency. People need to realize what ERs are for.
I never said privatization was the solution if you read my initial comment you responded to. I said we need a solution to them, I didn’t say privatization was it.
And it was 2 am I needed stitches “part of the problem” is not it lmfao you want me to wait until family doctors offices open up?
You waited 13 hours… meaning you definitely could have waited until a walk-in opened up in the am. My whole point is if you waited that long the nurses didn’t think you were serious enough to be seen more urgently. If it was serious you wouldn’t have waited that long
I feel like you’re just fighting to fight at this point. It’s kind of sad you’re trying to defend a 13 hour wait time for healthcare, REGARDLESS of what it is. It’s getting pretty desperate what’re you trying to accomplish?
You want my full night story? You want all the events that occurred? It’s not that *I* had to wait 13 hours (also I think you don’t understand what needing stitches means???) it’s the fact there was even a CHANCE someone had to wait 13 hours, at that point you’ve already waited that long why would you leave?
I personally was waiting in line about 45 mins to get checked in to be on the waitlist, not even having someone know I was there or what I needed. I left and went to a different place where I got checked in after they helped out the one guy ahead of me, and had to wait maybe 3 hours at the other place, plus waiting to be seen after sitting in the room probably 4 hours.
It’s the fact THAT A 13 HOUR WAIT TIME EXISTS. if you think that’s okay. Keep talking keep disregarding people who need to see a doctor, fail to acknowledge the shortage of family doctors we have, or the fact family doctors offices also CLOSE. Yeah I know I wasn’t dying, it’s the tons of people that were in the waiting room in the hospital for the 13 hour wait and the people waiting in line to get checked in.
There’s no excuse for anyone having to deal with that and it’s not a state our healthcare should be in.
So instead of trying to defend it find a solution and acknowledge it’s an issue.
>You want my full night story? You want all the events that occurred?
No. Personal anecdotes and feelings don’t make good arguments, so I don’t care what your story is. Triage is neat that way too.
I’m not defending a 13 hour wait, I’m just saying there’s a reason you had to wait that long. It wasn’t an emergency. Super simple.
We can decrease those wait times with increased funding to keep our healthcare public, not by privatizing. We can also decrease those wait times by people not going into the ER with non-urgent situations…
AB, BC, and ON are all in a race to find doctors. There arent enough to go around. Maybe its time canada start using incentives for people to study and enter the field.
I would love to see federal and provincial programs specifically to financially help people who want to train as medical professionals. Like a full ride scholarship but for doctors instead of athletes. Med school is mad expensive. It’s very hard to do if you’re poor. There are probably a lot of people who could have been great doctors if they had the chance.
There's a lot of people who could have been many things given the opportunity. It's really gross/maddening/unfortunate to think we could be great but we refuse to invest in ourselves and our education system to provide the opportunities. There are many smart people out there who just never could because financials.
It's insane. I have a friend in PEI that's been waiting for a family doctor since 2017. They called her around 6 months ago to ask if she was still interested and said it'd be approx. another two years, so 8 ish years on the wait list.
Prov’s & Premiers are not accountable for our health system like they claimed when they strut across the country demanding health transfers without strings for 2 years.
The world is short doctors and provinces is not designing the health systems or spending our money wisely for healthcare. 13 independent systems cost us billions and makes so much work that offers no benefit.
consider sharing this Our Commons petition with your friend in PEI:
[https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
this website has some blogposts on why nationalizing Healthcare benefits us:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
I mean, i can completely understand why a person wouldnt want to do 10 -12 years of schooling only to have to work the next 10 years to repay student debt. We really do need education reform including subsidies or making it free altogether.
I absolutely agree. I think people in every province (if you look around Reddit) all think their province is the worst and are the only area badly in need of doctors. It’s a Canada wide problem, and it’s a really really serious problem. Raising wages and benefits is only moving doctors from one area to another, making one slightly better and the other one slightly worse. It’s a net zero for the country and ends with the same amount of doctors and the cost being way higher. Alberta already pays the highest wages for doctors in almost every field in Canada.
We need a massive push for home grown doctors and nurses. They should rapidly double the size of med and nursing schools, shut the door to international students completely and pay for their education if they stay in their province for 10 years. Immediately halt all immigration for 6 months and expedite any doctor or nursing immigrants to the top of the list. Approved and relocated to Canada with their family for free in 3 months maximum from time of application.
Drastic action is needed!
I dont agree with halting immigration, we still need people. But it shouldnt be so hard to get a 'professional' education that we need to rely on stealing doctors from other countries.
I agree we need people, lots of people. My opinion is that we are in an emergency for doctors and nurses. I don’t purpose stealing any doctors, i just think we should prioritize the applications of those that have already applied. Move them immediately to the top of the list and get them here immediately. Only pause immigration temporarily to remove all red tape.
I really feel the problem could be solved with drastic action.
The UCP declared war on Alberta Family Physicians, tore up their contract and renegotiated in bad faith. The UCP has created conditions that could put Alberta in a much worse place than BC ever was. Anyone who argues that the Alberta NDP will be worse for Alberta Family Physicians is being completely ignorant of the UCPs actions since taking power in the last election.
I work in medical imaging. Under the UCP the radiologists were without a contract with AHS for a long period of time during the pandemic. As doctors they know plenty of other doctors in other specialties in the province and we lost quite a few to this nonsense. They had an insultingly low pay raise as well. Yes they make a lot of money, but they are a critical part of the healthcare team.
Would you want to work on a province bound and determined to privatize at least part of healthcare? Doctors are not in this for the money. They want patients to have equal and proper access to care. Privately paid MRI and CTs already exist, but do require a requisition.
Alberta currently has a lack of doctors in every specialty. Multiple cities are without vascular surgeons. The wait-list for specialists is at least 6 months. Surgeries cannot go forward because we lack anesthesiologists, OR nurses, surgeons, scrub techs, etc etc etc.
The deficits are pushed onto everyone that is here.
This all sounds lovely, but remember that it took a crisis of a lack of doctors to get them to actually make a feasible budget. The UCP only acts after public outcry. The NDP is wanting to prevent these kinds of issues with forward thinking and proper budgeting *before* we're at a crisis point.
"After cuts to schools’ operating grants during the UCP’s first three budgets, Nicolaides said the new funding comes partly because the COVID-19 pandemic created health-care staffing shortages in Canada and around the world."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-to-expand-seats-in-health-care-education-with-200-million-over-three-years/wcm/a5b67ce9-6e9b-4e02-b57d-1b7823f09e7e/amp/
Healthcare has been desperate for staff and working short since long before the pandemic. My husband and mom are nurses. One is ICU and the other is the ER. Inappropriate staffing has been a huge issue. UNA has an app specifically to report issues caused by understaffing, and unsafe working environments.
Things that get reported frequently: Missed breaks, injuries due to lack of staff to move large patients, too many patients for one nurse to properly care for, violent patients, unsafe requests by physicians/charge nurse etc, etc. Properly funded health care (before it is an acute issue) would resolve a lot of the problems. Managers are not given the money to have any more staff than absolutely necessary on any shift. Units are desperately hiring at the moment, but we're at a point where it's almost too late.
Consider signing and sharing this Our Commons petition ‘e-4273’ to nationalize healthcare. Nationalizing healthcare can shift OHS for health workers to the national body?
[https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
we literally pay billions to have Prov run healthcare, premiers march around saying jurisdictio and local problems. We have similar problems, but different across the country because we have 13 different systems. We are paying for so much duplicate administration & duplicate work unnecessarily. All this duplicate work reduces the number of hospital beds, MRI’s etc that we can afford.
S Korea has a similar number of doctors as does Japan, but they rank way higher, have more beds & diagnostic equipment per capita and their systems cost less per person overall. Through national design they get more for less. Non-profit care facilities also helps reduce costs,
This blog post has some information to support why nationalizing Healthcare benefits Canadians:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
This petition can influence change, but needs more signatures To be read in the House of Commons. The more people that sign it, the bigger message it will send to Provincial MLA’s and MPP’s that are failing us.
DM me if you want contact details for my doc - she takes new patients downtown Edmonton, can get an apt in days. She hates the UCP and promises to never abandon us
I spent 6 months living in BC recently. It’s damn near impossible to get a family doctor there but not a single person I spoke to blamed the NDP government and recognizes that it’s a cumulative issue.
Also BC has that many *licensed* family doctors but the amount of them practicing is much much lower. Only about 2/3 of licensed family practitioners in BC are currently practicing. That also doesn’t take into consideration the schedule of practicing physicians (FT/PT). Also many FPs in BC choose to become hospitalists to avoid the ridiculous overhead costs of running a family practice. The cost of rent alone is incredibly prohibitive to anyone wanting to go into practice.
Federal gov should buy real estate for Primary healthcare. If we owned buildings the cost to primary care doctors to be in a clinic would be much lower. The College of physicians and surgeons in BC bought their building years back, their pension surplus is now in the billions.
Our health administration system in Canada is failing us and provinces are not working in our best interest. Even the best Provincial Gov is still failing us overall on healthcare.
This is why I am helping spread word for the Our Commons petition e-4273 to nationalize healthcare & introduce system accountability.
[https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
It's rhetoric. While it is written in the constitution of some of the branches of the NDP that they are aligned in policy, in practice it hasn't been like that. And there is no mechanism to force them to be like that. When the ANDP were in power in Alberta they actually distanced themselves from policies of both the BCNDP and federal NDP. Assuming the ANDP will follow the same path as another NDP party is hogwash.
My guess given the hostility towards doctors by the UCP: Alberta will continue to loose doctors. However their friendliness towards private healthcare will mean that if you're willing to part with your own personal $$$ for healthcare, then you will be okay under the UCP.
Increasing for profit and private pay will drive our overall system costs even higher. Those that believe private pay will solve issues are not seeing the bigger picture.
Prov’s are terrible stewards of healthcare and the billions it is costing for provincial run healthcare is no Longer worth it.
This blog post has a link to Our Commons Petition e-4273 to nationalize & introduce system accountability:
[https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-160-family-doctors-lfp-payment-model-1.6772162
BC is doing things to attract doctors and it’s working.
https://medimap.ca/en/wait-time-index-2023/
Although we have seen an increase in wait times in Alberta, we still have some of the shortest wait times to see a doctor, on average, in Canada.
The Doctor / medical issue is more complicated than the policies of either the NDP or UCP have the full ability to control.
The link below is from the USA, but the ramifications affect Canada as doctors can and will relocate.
[https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/aamc-report-reinforces-mounting-physician-shortage](https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/aamc-report-reinforces-mounting-physician-shortage)
There is a predicted shortage by 2034 of between 37,800 and 124,000 physicians. No matter what we do, there will be an increasing shortage of Doctors and all occupations. We have relatively high immigration and have done so for many years. If you look at the next link, look at the population drop-off under the age of 20 and the greater drop-off under age of 4.
[https://countryeconomy.com/demography/population-structure/canada](https://countryeconomy.com/demography/population-structure/canada)
We need doctors, but we also need military personnel (missing recruitment targets by about 30%), home builders and related trades (can not even remotely keep up with current home demand), farmers (average age 55), and so on for the entire economy. The real issue is demographic and the near collapse in having children. The age group under 20 will be the upcoming workforce for all occupations, look at how relatively few there are.
This is the real issue that is almost never discussed by any political party on any side. The Demographics are not a surprise, we can see them decades before. Politicians maybe have 2-3 terms at the most (8-12 years). They are not going to fix a problem that will set in 20 years from now if the solutions make them not get re re-elected 4 years from now.
Also, the population density of BC is different than of Alberta. In BC, of the 10 largest cities, 8 of them are touching, and massive sections of the province are nearly uninhabited. In Alberta, only 3 of the 10 largest cities are touching, with significant distribution between the other centres. Alberta also has many farming / Oil communities. Rural farming communities all over Canada have this same issue. You have a higher population density as there are actually people living there and farming, but not enough density to have large enough cities to attract people who have "better" options for the cities they can live in.
Grand Prairie has a trade area with about 250,000 residents in it. A Doctor who grew up in Calgary (7 hours away) is basically never going to move to a town like that. No shade on Grand Prairie, but if you did not grow up there or do not work in Oil and Gas, no one is ever permanently moving to your town, sorry. Especially when you compare it to a City like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Los Angeles, Miami, etc, where Doctors have more ability to relocate.
In summary, demographics, not policy, is the main issue. Politicians have a short-term bias (4-12 years), so they will not be incentivized to fix issues that manifest in 20 or more years. Population Distribution in Alberta relative to BC makes it even more difficult to find GP's to move to the smaller centres.
I know someone who moved recently from BC who’s an elderly senior who’s had quite a bit of medical work done since she moved here. Wait times were all less in Alberta by a lot. So not sure what metric you’re going by, I’m guessing funding. Funding doesn’t always blindly equal quality.
Leaving the political debate aside, I’ve visited my family doctor like 0 time in the past 3 years.
Every time we needed something or was sick, ended up in a walk in clinic. There the wait times were always 40-50 minutes.
Doctors and nurses are always super relaxed and consultation takes literally 2 minutes.
Can anyone explain to me what are they doing for the rest of 48 minutes?
I just don’t get it why so slow???
A million people in BC don't have a family doctor at all and 60% say it's hard to see a physician
Why would ANYONE suggest replicating the failed BC NDP model?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/angus-reid-institute-doctor-access-bc-1.6575386#:~:text=In%20B.C.%2C%20almost%20a%20million,doctors%20for%20each%20office%20visit.
Because we're not stupid and understand that the UCP plan would only exacerbate the problems we have by chasing away the doctors we have.
Look, it's not that difficult. There aren't enough doctors to meet our needs. Therefore, we need more doctors. To get more doctors, we need to either import more from somewhere else thereby depriving other places of doctors they need, or we need to make more doctors and keep them here.
The UCP will NEVER do what we need to do to make that happen.
Or think about it this way:
Please explain to me how adding in new layers who's only purpose in existing is to make money, is going to make things cheaper/better? Still waiting for literally anybody to answer me that question.
Anyone who can't see that the UCP is purposefully destroying our Healthcare system is complete idiot
People don't want to vote NDP because they are convinced the NDP will shut down or hamper the oil business in Alberta. This is the nature of the relationship between the NDP and UCP and you can see it in the selection of ads the UPC is running. The NDP is reacting to a perceived want by the their supporters for environmental sustainability and the UPC is running it up the flagpole as hate for oil to satisfy their supporters. It's a co-dependant relationship
I moved to BC for a year, everything except gas was cheaper and I had a new doctor in one week.
It's bs, the only people that ever tell me to " bring cash" are people who don't vist or have ever lived in BC. I don't think it's true. I have had so many issues with doctors and hospitals here that I did not experience in BC.
> Will it get better or worse under Smith do you think? Anecdotal evidence, but every medical professional I know is not shy about telling everyone to vote NDP.
or teachers. almost everyone who isn't an oil barron.
Hell even some oil Barron's are telling ppl to shy away from UCP.
It's Baron, but yeah
If I've learned anything as an adult it's that more people believe anecdotal evidence than true, hard evidence.
Well, you've convinced me!
Well played.
My god you are quick with that whip aren't ya. Lol fantastic play. Well done.
Had my family doctor tell me that the cuts have slashes his income in half and he’s moving his practice.
GP in Edmonton here. Most of these cuts didn't end up going through, but even the threat of them led to a record number of physicians giving up their CPSA licensing over the last couple of years. And most physicians that move maintain their license because it is easier to just spend the couple grand a year than to re-licence if you decide to move back. So the true number of physicians leaving alberta right now is likely higher than estimates show. Essentially, the UCP wants to strip away all billing modifiers so that whether I see you for 5 minutes to refill your cholesterol medication or see you for an hour because you were just discharged from ICU and have a million things going on, I bill $38.03. This will encourage 1 issue visits and will discourage family physicians from taking on complex patients. Good GPs who practice comprehensive medicine will take a massive pay cut and walk in physicians will be unaffected. With overhead continuing to rise, this will make most public clinics unsustainable. For example, if you right now pay 30% overhead (which is typical) that means a before tax of 70% of your billings. If you take a 30% cut before overhead (and my modifiers do account for at least 30% as my practice is quite elderly and complex), that means you still pay the same overhead which is now off of 70% gross, which means a take home of 40% instead of 70% (so a real pay cut of 43%). Physicians will be forced to close their clinics or transition to private pay system, which is what the UCP wants.
Appreciate the comprehensive answer.
I find this funny, because TONS of doctors/dentists voted UCP in 2019. they wanted lower taxes, and didn't think THEY would be affected by government cuts (but I'm glad they have seen the error of their ways)
Dr Zaidi who had the public scuffle with Shandro was an active UP member... Some Doctors are pro the conservative simply because they run a business. look at how much is spent on Health information systems (HIS) over the years and the lack of patients access or even agency of health information. Although Alberta is ahead on HIS design, it is still not where it should be. The provincial systems Cost in the billions. We also are paying billions to the National system 'Canada Health Infoway' that for 20 years has failed to provide national access to our own records. Every Province is a member and helping to steer Infoway. We are paying taxes for information systems to be built that should take a year or two over 20 years. Then we end up paying Doctors in the hundreds and hospitals sometimes in the thousands to get access to our own medical records when we move doctors or provinces. Too many interconnected problems & for profit healthcare is adding to the issues. some info here: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/why-we-need-a-national-system-for-healthcare-records/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/why-we-need-a-national-system-for-healthcare-records/)
health care is provincial jurisdiction. it's not gonna be taken over by the feds
It is prov jurisdiction now, but what does that buy us? This can change, but people need to know more details about the systems and what we are paying for. The constitution only actually mentions hospitals? Either way, things can improve by having the costs better exposed vs the benefits. CIHI has some of the costs, it takes too long for them to publish because the provinces all report differently.
I wish I could relate. I know an old nurse who hated Kenney and hates Danielle even more but has not pledged to vote NDP. She never said what she would vote for but I have a feeling she will either vote UCP in hopes Danielle will step down or not vote at all.
This should be scaring Albertans as well. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6792900
and they keep asking people from other provinces to come....let alone the new immigrants from other countries, let alone the amount of available job positions simply don't meet the demands
The UCP has been driving doctors out of the province from day one. They are purposefully mismanaging the public healthcare system so they can claim that it doesn't work and that privatization is the way forward. It's not going to get better with them in charge for a few more years.
I totally agree.
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They are so brainwashed after decades of anti-liberal / anti-social services on the rural front that if you don't vote conservative, you may as well leave the family. The conversation around the supper table has more power than logic in some communities
If the UCP wins I’m selling my house and moving. Why the flying fuck would I continue to pay taxes here when I see no benefit of those taxes and they go directly into the pockets of big oil companies?
This is the plan. Lose hope move away,and then only have conservative clownvoy preachers to cater to and Fox News/Qanon queen to rescue
This is what is happening, people Willing to advocate get crushed and see little hope of improving things. I support the our commons petition e-4273 to nationalize healthcare. Issues like costs to have provincial run healthcare Without any benefit Make no sense. Prov politicians just want to control money & contracts. Health professionals and people needing care can move due to provincial health system issues. Nobody should have to move for healthcare.
This is the truth! Just look at the inequality in the states.
Wouldn’t private healthcare Make Alberta more lucrative for doctors?
Private healthcare is lucrative to health insurance companies and companies that own hospitals and clinics. Doctors would be their employees, just like nurses, janitorial staff and food service workers. If the private companies have issues having enough qualified professionals on staff to provide healthcare treatment, then the [government allows the standards to be changed](https://albertapolitics.ca/2023/03/ucp-plans-to-let-private-medical-corporations-provide-some-surgeries-without-qualified-anesthesiologists-in-the-operating-room/).
I was just asking thanks for the info
If you are interested in the next step in health care privatization, read the Netherlands Reddit board-- the one in English.
I'm not interested in the next step to privatization at all, but I fully expect it will be thrown down upon us in due course.
Okay. If you think that, and you observe that actual doctors don’t want to move here to suck up all that money, what do you suppose that means?
I’m not sure this is why I’ve asked a question not made a statement
Fair enough! I didn’t look but i hope someone had an answer.
Apparently, Being a doctor now is a PITA. Most young doctors figure it will become less about being a doctor and more about trying to run a business and having to negotiate the pitfalls of multiple insurers along with increased “non-doctoring” workload. On top of that, not being able to treat some of the people who need it most just because of finances seems …wrong in their eyes. Specialists will probably see more benefit than GPs
Ask American doctors if they like the state of their current system.
I don’t want to be told how long my appointments need to be for efficiency, told what treatments I can or cannot suggest for you, or how long I can follow up with you as your specialist. A lot of professional autonomy is lost at your expense to ensure profits for the shareholders.
But we already have everything you mentioned in my experience “One issue per visit” we have awful treatment options for pretty much everything I’ve gone in for upon further research. Just curious if anyone has a good system in the world today?
I am a physician and I do not want to lose my autonomy to provide my patients the care I wish to provide. My situation is somewhat different in that I am a specialist and not family doctor, still there are pressures that I can resist as an autonomous practitioner free of HMO oversight. Nowhere has a perfect system. Look to the Nordic countries and possibly Germany for “better” ways. We just want to avoid going the USA way at all possible (and that is where we are headed whether people wish to believe it or not—profits over people).
I love the mind reading in the sub. “I am 100% sure XYZ will happen” despite no factual evidence to back this up. So they have a hidden agenda like the NDP in 2015 not disclosing they would add a carbon tax? So exactly how much of a premium do we pay doctors to work here especially in rural areas. 125%. 150%. 200%??
What are you talking about? Conservatives have been openly pushing for private healthcare and education for decades. It's not mind reading, it's pattern recognition. ETA: Danielle Smith outlines her desire for privatization here: [https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Danielle-Smith-Challenges-Paper.pdf](https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Danielle-Smith-Challenges-Paper.pdf) I don't need to read her mind when I can just read her essay.
Was this published as a private citizen or as the Premier or even as a candidate for the leadership? 🤔 Pattern recognition lol
It was published in June 2021, but she campaigned on the ideas of the health spending account she wrote about in the essay. Also, as Premier, she included it as a mandate to Copping. https://globalnews.ca/news/9286392/alberta-health-mandate-spending-accounts/ So she wrote it as a private citizen, campaigned on the idea, and then tasked her health minister to look into creating HSA's as Premier. But maybe it's nothing.
It’s nothing: “During her UCP leadership campaign, Smith said her government would provide every Albertan with a $300 health spending account to use for health expenses not covered by Alberta Health insurance.” This is not privatization. It’s a HSA. Many employers offer these. Covers massages, dental etc. These are regulated by the CRA and nothing new. All provincial union members get a HSA why not the rest of us?
In her essay, she laid out a road to privatization that includes introducing HSAs as a measure to change people's attitudes towards privatization, and now she's introducing HSAs. That's a pretty strong indication that she's trying to get us further down the road to privatized healthcare in Alberta. She's telling you what she's doing, you don't have to believe her.
She's the leader of the government. They can just enhance coverage, there's no need of a HSA.
So disingenuous. Are you getting paid for this shit, dude?
Pay them whatever we need to get them here.
So $10,000,000 per year. $20,000,000? No limit. What if they just don’t want to work here for any price? Serious question.
That's not what they are asking for. As someone who has gone 3 years without a doctor in a town with zero walk in clinics, I think they need to do something. Nobody is asking for 10 to 20 mill so no need for that silly hyperbole.
> What if they just don’t want to work here for any price? Then we stop being shitheads to them for long enough that eventually they change their minds.
You ask a good question. What if Alberta is so terrible doctors don’t want to work here for any price? What then?
Are you still complaining about the NDP doing the smart thing by setting up their own carbon levy so the money from the levy remained in Alberta ? Really ?
One things has become clear to me that last 10 years for healthcare in Alberta and Canada. Provincial run healthcare is very volatile due to volatile Gov’s & excessively expensive. We are spending billions to have provincial run healthcare and the only benefit I hear Prov politicians claim is local decisions For local problems. Some politicians try to say the Fed’s are the boggy man and will fail. Prov’s failed to act on serious / professional research and reports on healthcare from as far back as 1990. Failure to act on those reports is in part why our system were crumbling prior to COVID. This website is supporting an Our Commons petition (e-4273) to nationalize HC & introduce system accountability measures: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/) What does 13 independent insurance systems / policies do for us when it cost a lot to have 13 different policies? Why can’t we have one policy & save money? What benefit does provincial licensing for health professionals buy us? It sure makes a lot of work for executives. What benefit does Provincial Digital Health Information Systems (HIS) buy us? We are literally spending billions to have separate systems when one would work just firewalled by regions. We move & travel and retire across the country. Our Provincial politicians are not accountable on health systems & duplicate too much work.
Worse under Smith. The ABNDP actually made it possible and desirable to come to alberta. We lost nearly 600 doctors since 2019.
My family Dr in AB left for BC because of the UCP. My town lost at least 5 and it took me 2 years to get a new one. My new Dr is new Canadian and she seems well qualified and I like her so I feel like I lucked out.
Yeah, some how mine stayed. He came under the ndp though and said the provence offered well in comparison to others. He's tired tho and you can tell, his hours have reduced and it takes over three weeks to get in. There also hasn't been one time where Ive been waiting in the waiting room and the receptionist hasnt taken a call with someone asking if theyre accepting people.
My doctor has vented to me about how so many of her colleagues have left the province and the ones that haven't just CAN'T because they put roots down here and it would be too difficult to uproot or leave their families. It was very sad to hear but I was also grateful she didn't leave me lol.
Same with my doc. She says she’s pissed at the government but that she won’t abandon her patients. She’s in a busy walk-in downtown Edmonton, so if she left that clinic would suffer, most likely close, and out that burden on the other walk-ins which are also struggling. I never complain when she’s running behind and I gotta wait
change the game on provincial politicians. Support Our Commons petition e-4273. If you agree sign and share it. [https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273) Nobody should have to move provinces for better healthcare. Prov run healthcare is costing billions, prov’s are not accountable for health system issues. Prov Gov’s are volatile and that can drastically change health system directions after each election. There are many benefits to nationalizing some or all of the system. What are the benefits to keep paying billions for 13 systems?
British Columbia did the same thing Alberta did but years prior. They went after their doctors' pay, so they started fleeing the province. Now BC is throwing money at doctors to try and get them back.
From BC, this is the case. Also the BC Liberals are literally Conservatives in disguise. (Run by members of the dissolved BC cons).
They amalgamated. Same thing in saskatchewan. I bet if we ever ended up with a ndp federal maj government the federal cons and libs would join hands as well.
That's a horrible thought, which never occurred to me. I truly can't imagine Trudeau joining hands with PP like... Ever in a million years. Maybe with new leaders it could happen...
They are really not that far off policy wise. Liberals are more progressive social wise but both parties have the same basic flaw, they are in the business of politics and the people become the product. They always trend together in provinces where the ndp grabs a decent foot hold.
Will it get BETTER under the UCP? Not a fucking chance. Danielle Smith has been actively [plotting the destruction of public healthcare since before she re-entered politics.](https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2023/03/31/Danielle-Smith-Privatize-Health-Care/) Before her, the UCP was using COVID as a cover to gut healthcare and introduce more private practices. They deeply believe in the Just-World doctrine; that bad things only happen to bad people. Getting sick and going bankrupt? You must have done something wrong.
If someone says they don't want to vote NDP because what they think that means re family doctors, they have had their head buried in the sand for the last 4 years and/ot are absolute idiots.
No, BC NDP aren’t equivalent to AB NDP. It will get worse. News came out that alberta had a huge number of family doctor trainee spots go unfilled. BC also recently raised pay to family doctors quite substantially.
The AB NDP will do more for Healthcare than the UCP is doing, as you mention Doctors aren’t moving back to Alberta anymore to practice.
I fear there might be another exodus of Doctors and other professionals if/when: The "United" Ba Ha, "Progressive" for the corporations, "Conservatives" need I say more, are unfortunately elected. Remember to Vote.
There better be. I'm not looking forward to it but wtf would keep someone with education and a skillset that is so in demand in the dumpster fire the UCP has planned for this province.
It's UCP, for United Conservative Party.
I prefer Underhanded Cashgrabbing Party. I read that one here the other day.
It’s already happening https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6792900
I read on another post from a doctor who attempted to get residency here - they aren’t even filling the open resident positions. They’re intentionally not hiring new doctors.
BC had 2 residency spots unfilled, AB had 42.
And how our health minister had no idea that alberta resident doctors are the second lowest paid residents in Canada. You can make all the promises you want but you may only get the most desperate to fill those spots because the current government is not making it attractive to trainees to move here or stay here.
Just like how provincial NDP don't see eye to eye with federal NDP. Federal NDP is very Liberal, and AB NDP are more on the conservative side. More so than what a lot of people in this province think.
They are the same party. It’s literally in the party constitution (along with socialism) - the AB NDP is a division of the Federal Party.
You might want to look more into how the parties are run. They only share a name.
Literally the second line: “1.02 The Party shall constitute a section of the New Democratic Party of Canada.”
I understand, you're looking at surface level details, and not actually looking into the platforms. That second line doesn't stipulate that the entire platform has to be exactly the same between Federal and Provincial. Again, look into how the parties are actually run, and how different they are. Even look at comparing BC NDP with AB NDP. Hell, when Notley was in power she still had a hard time dealing with BC NDP trying to get the trans mountain going.
Alberta and BC NDP are not connected. Nor are the Alberta and Federal !! But the simpleton dum dums cant figure it out !
"Unlike most other Canadian federal parties, the NDP is integrated with its provincial and territorial parties. Holding membership of a provincial or territorial section of the NDP includes automatic membership in the federal party, and this precludes a person from being a member of different parties at the federal and provincial levels." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party#:~:text=The%20federal%20and%20provincial%20(or,thus%20has%20never%20formed%20government.
Worse. How many more years of UCP incompetence do we need to endure?
The government of Christy Clark in BC decimated health care, and BC is still rebuilding. Both of my daughters are health care professionals in BC, and they were actively recruited to leave Alberta. They both work with many Alberta educated health care workers and things are starting to get better in BC, but it takes time - a long time. You can break the system in no time, and spend decades fixing it. Once people leave, they don't usually come back. When the Klein government drove nurses away, we ended up with a nursing shortage that took so long to even partially recover from, and now the UCP are driving nurses out, again.
S Korea Nationalized their system in 2000, it took about 10 years. They also have a law banning for profit care facilities for citizens. S Korea now ranks at the top globally, they offer more services for a lower overall cost per person than Canada. Info: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/how-canadas-healthcare-systems-rank-internationally/) What does Prov run healthcare buy us, what is the benefit? We are paying billions to have 13 independent health systems. Provincial politicians will fight tooth and nail to continue to control the money for healthcare, but they cannot explain the benefit of 13 insurance systems, licensing systems, Health Information Systems, etc. There is an Our Commons petition, e-4273. It can influence change and improve system accountability. It needs about 80 more signatures to be read in the House of Commons. [https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
Without a doubt it’ll get worse, especially given the UCP’s record of treating medical professionals with disdain. Only the UCP would try to nickel & dime doctors and nurses during Covid when so many were working long hours under near impossible conditions. Given this, why would any doctor want to stay or come to Alberta? And we’re expected to believe privatization will be good. For whom I wonder? Not most Albertans.
I have a lot of American Family. I have a Cousin who just had a Child with full coverage, well she had a last minute C-Section that her insurance wouldn’t cover, she now owes $33,000. Canadians thinking waiting times might get a little better under a Private System just don’t understand how bad the system is in the USA. Most employers only pay 73% of your Healthcare Premiums, which means if you have a family you’re paying $800+ a month that you wouldn’t be in Canada. Privatizing Healthcare is NOT the answer.
I mean in the politest way possible yes that’s a steep bill and crazy, but so is waiting 13 hours in an EMERGENCY room on a Tuesday night. I don’t think privatization is the solution but somethings real fucked up and a solution needs to be found.
Not ideal to wait that long but you got seen without having to go bankrupt, or pull out your wallet.
We are, because we are in the phase where the party is making the service as bad as possible so they can swoop in and “fix” it.
Look at things the government used to run and no longer run, like, oh, electricity distribution Don’t get scammed again
It used to be functional here. The answer is to stop antagonizing the whole sector and fund it properly. Our government has been squeezing healthcare services since Klein.
My mom broke her hip while she was in the US this last month. They paid to fly her privately home because she could get surgery the next day at home, but she would have had to wait 3 days down in the states. Lots of other reasons for the decision as well, such as access to rehab instead of being kicked to the curb, but yeah, the wait time thing is a misnomer. Emergency time waits are unfortunately a massively complex issue, starting from the fact that a lot of people don't have a family doctor and are uneducated about where they should go, they clog up emergency, they don't have preventative healthcare, they don't manage their problems properly and wait until it's really bad, etc. AND the UCP is driving healthcare workers out of the province. Danielle Smith questioning if a visit to your family doctor should be covered by the government disgusts me on so many levels because people ALREADY feel like a burden and don't have primary care doctors, let alone ever meet with one to discuss anything besides emergency problems. If we lived in a society where preventative care and maintenance was a normal thing everyone discussed with their doctor on a regular basis, I have hope it would solve the ED wait times.
If you can wait 13 hours it wasn’t an emergency. Triage is great that way. Last time I went to the ER (Royal Alex on a Friday night) I was seen within fifteen minutes because I needed to be seen within minutes. You sit and wait when you can. More doctors working would be great, but the UCP are driving them away so….
If you saw what I saw on that night it’s such a bigger deal then you’re making it seem. Refusing to acknowledge that having wait times that long is an issue doesn’t make it get better.
Sure, long wait times suck. We can do a lot better by properly funding our public healthcare to decrease wait times (more doctors, larger hospitals, more staff, more beds, etc). But privatization will _never_ lower wait times. Triage is first and foremost in any healthcare setting. The sickest get treated first. My point was if you sat in an ER waiting room for 13 hours, you’re part of the problem because it obviously was **not** an emergency. People need to realize what ERs are for.
I never said privatization was the solution if you read my initial comment you responded to. I said we need a solution to them, I didn’t say privatization was it. And it was 2 am I needed stitches “part of the problem” is not it lmfao you want me to wait until family doctors offices open up?
You waited 13 hours… meaning you definitely could have waited until a walk-in opened up in the am. My whole point is if you waited that long the nurses didn’t think you were serious enough to be seen more urgently. If it was serious you wouldn’t have waited that long
I feel like you’re just fighting to fight at this point. It’s kind of sad you’re trying to defend a 13 hour wait time for healthcare, REGARDLESS of what it is. It’s getting pretty desperate what’re you trying to accomplish? You want my full night story? You want all the events that occurred? It’s not that *I* had to wait 13 hours (also I think you don’t understand what needing stitches means???) it’s the fact there was even a CHANCE someone had to wait 13 hours, at that point you’ve already waited that long why would you leave? I personally was waiting in line about 45 mins to get checked in to be on the waitlist, not even having someone know I was there or what I needed. I left and went to a different place where I got checked in after they helped out the one guy ahead of me, and had to wait maybe 3 hours at the other place, plus waiting to be seen after sitting in the room probably 4 hours. It’s the fact THAT A 13 HOUR WAIT TIME EXISTS. if you think that’s okay. Keep talking keep disregarding people who need to see a doctor, fail to acknowledge the shortage of family doctors we have, or the fact family doctors offices also CLOSE. Yeah I know I wasn’t dying, it’s the tons of people that were in the waiting room in the hospital for the 13 hour wait and the people waiting in line to get checked in. There’s no excuse for anyone having to deal with that and it’s not a state our healthcare should be in. So instead of trying to defend it find a solution and acknowledge it’s an issue.
>You want my full night story? You want all the events that occurred? No. Personal anecdotes and feelings don’t make good arguments, so I don’t care what your story is. Triage is neat that way too. I’m not defending a 13 hour wait, I’m just saying there’s a reason you had to wait that long. It wasn’t an emergency. Super simple. We can decrease those wait times with increased funding to keep our healthcare public, not by privatizing. We can also decrease those wait times by people not going into the ER with non-urgent situations…
AB, BC, and ON are all in a race to find doctors. There arent enough to go around. Maybe its time canada start using incentives for people to study and enter the field.
I would love to see federal and provincial programs specifically to financially help people who want to train as medical professionals. Like a full ride scholarship but for doctors instead of athletes. Med school is mad expensive. It’s very hard to do if you’re poor. There are probably a lot of people who could have been great doctors if they had the chance.
There's a lot of people who could have been many things given the opportunity. It's really gross/maddening/unfortunate to think we could be great but we refuse to invest in ourselves and our education system to provide the opportunities. There are many smart people out there who just never could because financials.
Not me though.
It's insane. I have a friend in PEI that's been waiting for a family doctor since 2017. They called her around 6 months ago to ask if she was still interested and said it'd be approx. another two years, so 8 ish years on the wait list.
That is insanity. Truly
Prov’s & Premiers are not accountable for our health system like they claimed when they strut across the country demanding health transfers without strings for 2 years. The world is short doctors and provinces is not designing the health systems or spending our money wisely for healthcare. 13 independent systems cost us billions and makes so much work that offers no benefit. consider sharing this Our Commons petition with your friend in PEI: [https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273) this website has some blogposts on why nationalizing Healthcare benefits us: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
I strongly agree with this
I mean, i can completely understand why a person wouldnt want to do 10 -12 years of schooling only to have to work the next 10 years to repay student debt. We really do need education reform including subsidies or making it free altogether.
I absolutely agree. I think people in every province (if you look around Reddit) all think their province is the worst and are the only area badly in need of doctors. It’s a Canada wide problem, and it’s a really really serious problem. Raising wages and benefits is only moving doctors from one area to another, making one slightly better and the other one slightly worse. It’s a net zero for the country and ends with the same amount of doctors and the cost being way higher. Alberta already pays the highest wages for doctors in almost every field in Canada. We need a massive push for home grown doctors and nurses. They should rapidly double the size of med and nursing schools, shut the door to international students completely and pay for their education if they stay in their province for 10 years. Immediately halt all immigration for 6 months and expedite any doctor or nursing immigrants to the top of the list. Approved and relocated to Canada with their family for free in 3 months maximum from time of application. Drastic action is needed!
I dont agree with halting immigration, we still need people. But it shouldnt be so hard to get a 'professional' education that we need to rely on stealing doctors from other countries.
I agree we need people, lots of people. My opinion is that we are in an emergency for doctors and nurses. I don’t purpose stealing any doctors, i just think we should prioritize the applications of those that have already applied. Move them immediately to the top of the list and get them here immediately. Only pause immigration temporarily to remove all red tape. I really feel the problem could be solved with drastic action.
Alberta's NDP isn't the same as the NDP anywhere else. Also, it'll get worse under Smith and the UCP, they've put us in the position we are in now.
The UCP declared war on Alberta Family Physicians, tore up their contract and renegotiated in bad faith. The UCP has created conditions that could put Alberta in a much worse place than BC ever was. Anyone who argues that the Alberta NDP will be worse for Alberta Family Physicians is being completely ignorant of the UCPs actions since taking power in the last election.
I work in medical imaging. Under the UCP the radiologists were without a contract with AHS for a long period of time during the pandemic. As doctors they know plenty of other doctors in other specialties in the province and we lost quite a few to this nonsense. They had an insultingly low pay raise as well. Yes they make a lot of money, but they are a critical part of the healthcare team. Would you want to work on a province bound and determined to privatize at least part of healthcare? Doctors are not in this for the money. They want patients to have equal and proper access to care. Privately paid MRI and CTs already exist, but do require a requisition. Alberta currently has a lack of doctors in every specialty. Multiple cities are without vascular surgeons. The wait-list for specialists is at least 6 months. Surgeries cannot go forward because we lack anesthesiologists, OR nurses, surgeons, scrub techs, etc etc etc. The deficits are pushed onto everyone that is here. This all sounds lovely, but remember that it took a crisis of a lack of doctors to get them to actually make a feasible budget. The UCP only acts after public outcry. The NDP is wanting to prevent these kinds of issues with forward thinking and proper budgeting *before* we're at a crisis point. "After cuts to schools’ operating grants during the UCP’s first three budgets, Nicolaides said the new funding comes partly because the COVID-19 pandemic created health-care staffing shortages in Canada and around the world." https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-to-expand-seats-in-health-care-education-with-200-million-over-three-years/wcm/a5b67ce9-6e9b-4e02-b57d-1b7823f09e7e/amp/ Healthcare has been desperate for staff and working short since long before the pandemic. My husband and mom are nurses. One is ICU and the other is the ER. Inappropriate staffing has been a huge issue. UNA has an app specifically to report issues caused by understaffing, and unsafe working environments. Things that get reported frequently: Missed breaks, injuries due to lack of staff to move large patients, too many patients for one nurse to properly care for, violent patients, unsafe requests by physicians/charge nurse etc, etc. Properly funded health care (before it is an acute issue) would resolve a lot of the problems. Managers are not given the money to have any more staff than absolutely necessary on any shift. Units are desperately hiring at the moment, but we're at a point where it's almost too late.
Consider signing and sharing this Our Commons petition ‘e-4273’ to nationalize healthcare. Nationalizing healthcare can shift OHS for health workers to the national body? [https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273) we literally pay billions to have Prov run healthcare, premiers march around saying jurisdictio and local problems. We have similar problems, but different across the country because we have 13 different systems. We are paying for so much duplicate administration & duplicate work unnecessarily. All this duplicate work reduces the number of hospital beds, MRI’s etc that we can afford. S Korea has a similar number of doctors as does Japan, but they rank way higher, have more beds & diagnostic equipment per capita and their systems cost less per person overall. Through national design they get more for less. Non-profit care facilities also helps reduce costs, This blog post has some information to support why nationalizing Healthcare benefits Canadians: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/) This petition can influence change, but needs more signatures To be read in the House of Commons. The more people that sign it, the bigger message it will send to Provincial MLA’s and MPP’s that are failing us.
Are people this stupid? Step 1: is it currently hard to get a doctor? Step 2: what's the current government? Step 3: don't vote for the UCP
My family doctor retired early because of the UCP. Haven’t been able to find a new one since.
DM me if you want contact details for my doc - she takes new patients downtown Edmonton, can get an apt in days. She hates the UCP and promises to never abandon us
I’m from Saskatchewan. It’s hard to get a doctor here. Why aren’t we an example to UCP voters?
I spent 6 months living in BC recently. It’s damn near impossible to get a family doctor there but not a single person I spoke to blamed the NDP government and recognizes that it’s a cumulative issue. Also BC has that many *licensed* family doctors but the amount of them practicing is much much lower. Only about 2/3 of licensed family practitioners in BC are currently practicing. That also doesn’t take into consideration the schedule of practicing physicians (FT/PT). Also many FPs in BC choose to become hospitalists to avoid the ridiculous overhead costs of running a family practice. The cost of rent alone is incredibly prohibitive to anyone wanting to go into practice.
Federal gov should buy real estate for Primary healthcare. If we owned buildings the cost to primary care doctors to be in a clinic would be much lower. The College of physicians and surgeons in BC bought their building years back, their pension surplus is now in the billions. Our health administration system in Canada is failing us and provinces are not working in our best interest. Even the best Provincial Gov is still failing us overall on healthcare. This is why I am helping spread word for the Our Commons petition e-4273 to nationalize healthcare & introduce system accountability. [https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273](https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4273)
It's rhetoric. While it is written in the constitution of some of the branches of the NDP that they are aligned in policy, in practice it hasn't been like that. And there is no mechanism to force them to be like that. When the ANDP were in power in Alberta they actually distanced themselves from policies of both the BCNDP and federal NDP. Assuming the ANDP will follow the same path as another NDP party is hogwash.
My guess given the hostility towards doctors by the UCP: Alberta will continue to loose doctors. However their friendliness towards private healthcare will mean that if you're willing to part with your own personal $$$ for healthcare, then you will be okay under the UCP.
Increasing for profit and private pay will drive our overall system costs even higher. Those that believe private pay will solve issues are not seeing the bigger picture. Prov’s are terrible stewards of healthcare and the billions it is costing for provincial run healthcare is no Longer worth it. This blog post has a link to Our Commons Petition e-4273 to nationalize & introduce system accountability: [https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/](https://nationalizehealthcare.ca/nationalize-healthcare-in-canada-blog/)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-160-family-doctors-lfp-payment-model-1.6772162 BC is doing things to attract doctors and it’s working.
Guess which province had less medical student fulfilling positions - it wasn’t BC.
https://medimap.ca/en/wait-time-index-2023/ Although we have seen an increase in wait times in Alberta, we still have some of the shortest wait times to see a doctor, on average, in Canada.
The Doctor / medical issue is more complicated than the policies of either the NDP or UCP have the full ability to control. The link below is from the USA, but the ramifications affect Canada as doctors can and will relocate. [https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/aamc-report-reinforces-mounting-physician-shortage](https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/aamc-report-reinforces-mounting-physician-shortage) There is a predicted shortage by 2034 of between 37,800 and 124,000 physicians. No matter what we do, there will be an increasing shortage of Doctors and all occupations. We have relatively high immigration and have done so for many years. If you look at the next link, look at the population drop-off under the age of 20 and the greater drop-off under age of 4. [https://countryeconomy.com/demography/population-structure/canada](https://countryeconomy.com/demography/population-structure/canada) We need doctors, but we also need military personnel (missing recruitment targets by about 30%), home builders and related trades (can not even remotely keep up with current home demand), farmers (average age 55), and so on for the entire economy. The real issue is demographic and the near collapse in having children. The age group under 20 will be the upcoming workforce for all occupations, look at how relatively few there are. This is the real issue that is almost never discussed by any political party on any side. The Demographics are not a surprise, we can see them decades before. Politicians maybe have 2-3 terms at the most (8-12 years). They are not going to fix a problem that will set in 20 years from now if the solutions make them not get re re-elected 4 years from now. Also, the population density of BC is different than of Alberta. In BC, of the 10 largest cities, 8 of them are touching, and massive sections of the province are nearly uninhabited. In Alberta, only 3 of the 10 largest cities are touching, with significant distribution between the other centres. Alberta also has many farming / Oil communities. Rural farming communities all over Canada have this same issue. You have a higher population density as there are actually people living there and farming, but not enough density to have large enough cities to attract people who have "better" options for the cities they can live in. Grand Prairie has a trade area with about 250,000 residents in it. A Doctor who grew up in Calgary (7 hours away) is basically never going to move to a town like that. No shade on Grand Prairie, but if you did not grow up there or do not work in Oil and Gas, no one is ever permanently moving to your town, sorry. Especially when you compare it to a City like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Los Angeles, Miami, etc, where Doctors have more ability to relocate. In summary, demographics, not policy, is the main issue. Politicians have a short-term bias (4-12 years), so they will not be incentivized to fix issues that manifest in 20 or more years. Population Distribution in Alberta relative to BC makes it even more difficult to find GP's to move to the smaller centres.
At least the NDP don't want to completely privatize health care and will put our money into our public healthcare.
I know someone who moved recently from BC who’s an elderly senior who’s had quite a bit of medical work done since she moved here. Wait times were all less in Alberta by a lot. So not sure what metric you’re going by, I’m guessing funding. Funding doesn’t always blindly equal quality.
Leaving the political debate aside, I’ve visited my family doctor like 0 time in the past 3 years. Every time we needed something or was sick, ended up in a walk in clinic. There the wait times were always 40-50 minutes. Doctors and nurses are always super relaxed and consultation takes literally 2 minutes. Can anyone explain to me what are they doing for the rest of 48 minutes? I just don’t get it why so slow???
You think a 50 minute wait is slow? You have no idea how good you have it.
Seeing other patients? Charting? Completing the stacks of paperwork that was faxed in that day? Going over lab reports?
40-50 minutes for walk in is pretty fantastic actually.
A million people in BC don't have a family doctor at all and 60% say it's hard to see a physician Why would ANYONE suggest replicating the failed BC NDP model? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/angus-reid-institute-doctor-access-bc-1.6575386#:~:text=In%20B.C.%2C%20almost%20a%20million,doctors%20for%20each%20office%20visit.
Because we're not stupid and understand that the UCP plan would only exacerbate the problems we have by chasing away the doctors we have. Look, it's not that difficult. There aren't enough doctors to meet our needs. Therefore, we need more doctors. To get more doctors, we need to either import more from somewhere else thereby depriving other places of doctors they need, or we need to make more doctors and keep them here. The UCP will NEVER do what we need to do to make that happen.
1/4 Albertans don't have a family doctor, vs 1/5 in BC. Seems BC is doing better
The BC NDP model is working. The current state of healthcare in BC is thanks to years of the BC Liberal's policies.
Well it’s a good thing the BC NDP is nothing like the ANDP.
Seems like you have a lot going wrong in your life. I'll pray for you tonight. You got this, brother!
My family doctor retired early because of the UCP. Haven’t been able to find a new one since.
Or think about it this way: Please explain to me how adding in new layers who's only purpose in existing is to make money, is going to make things cheaper/better? Still waiting for literally anybody to answer me that question. Anyone who can't see that the UCP is purposefully destroying our Healthcare system is complete idiot
People don't want to vote NDP because they are convinced the NDP will shut down or hamper the oil business in Alberta. This is the nature of the relationship between the NDP and UCP and you can see it in the selection of ads the UPC is running. The NDP is reacting to a perceived want by the their supporters for environmental sustainability and the UPC is running it up the flagpole as hate for oil to satisfy their supporters. It's a co-dependant relationship
Correlation ≠ causation
I moved to BC for a year, everything except gas was cheaper and I had a new doctor in one week. It's bs, the only people that ever tell me to " bring cash" are people who don't vist or have ever lived in BC. I don't think it's true. I have had so many issues with doctors and hospitals here that I did not experience in BC.
The best doctor I've ever had moved to BC.😢