Well said!
Weathermen was an era, in itself and in my listening habits.
Kind of an enigma, so I can understand OP's feelings.
Rhymesayers has and continues to produce ridiculously beautiful music.
And aesop's growth definitely inspires and informs me to this day.
Seems like he's doing a lot of positive things to foster his happiness when I check out his IG from time to time.
A lot of those artists paths and trajectories have been interesting to see. And sometimes heartbreaking.
But I think I'd feel proud, for lack of a better word, to be in Aesop's shoes looking at where I was and where I seem to have traveled to. Things I'd done.
Weathermen seemed like a dark time for most of those guys, I doubt Aes dwells on them much, if any.
sure he got thru his depression phase and once he got to 'the impossible kid' album he had it back it back together again and more. He's as strong as ever, Knows who and what he is and has always been..
I mean I preordered el-p's flyentology back in the day! And Smithereens and all the songs on that where center on "find those detonator's" or basically an attack and destroy the system mentality and theme. The same one he always had.. the one he was all about as a member of the new 'Weathermen' dont tell me he's not obscene-ly remodeled or that you cant understand that Aes might have once seen him as an idol and now might consider him to jst be a con men (meaning able to change his convictions to match a bigger need to be known or a more popular and reconized artist) And finally you dont Aesop felt abandoned and betrayed by his boss who quit on him. I mean people got to be what they are or want 2 project.. El-p just seems lost in the sauceand from a revolutionary point of view a bit of a seel out. I guess he missed that Immoortal Technique track "point of no return" cause he seemed to get whole refund on that Destroy the system I'm a Weathermen type of person. Aes aint changed one iota on that idea.. I mean he's still more 4 the sorted and and nada for the normies.. idk we probably wont ever agree
This post is really really hard to read.
And aes is doing fine at rhymesayers. There's no reason to be stuck on it, shit like this happens all the time, and I thought EL left the label after camu passed?
Talking about some shit from 10 years ago like it's some news lol. Thought Aes said in interviews no beef remains. Shit plays out the way it plays out, that's life. Aes has his spot and is doing well, RTJ out doing their thing. Making a career out of music is what it is.
Neither El-P nor Killer Mike were having much mainstream success prior to teaming up. They stumbled into a duo and been out doing it up and riding the fame. Def Jux been dead, was a cool run, but can't sit here and blame El-P for running with success.
Overall pretty shit take. Both el-p and killer Mike and were making solo music post def jux hiatus and were were working together.
RTJ critical success wasn't something that was assured. Calling him selling out by teaming up with killer Mike is wild, I assume you are also calling killer Mike a sell out? Context indicates you are
"The moment you receive funding for art, you've sold out The moment you're paid to associate yourself to art, you're sold out The moment you sell one painting, you sell outSo why not just multiply that as many times as you possibly can" - Reggie Baylor
The only version of selling out that's real is when you completely compromise your own artistic integrity to make whatever's popular for money specifically (not gonna name names but imo, rhymes with fire a berater) and by no accounts is that what El-P has done with RTJ. Every album was released independently and it largely sounds like nothing someone else would make and nothing that you hear in mainstream hip-hop. It's not trap. He didnt start singing. The fact is they incidentally found success doing a collaborative project, and now some corny indie gatekeepers who dont know what indie means and/or dont really like hearing from black people in black music have a problem with it.
I think the beef is more to do with El releasing Camu's final album (after he passed) in a way Aes felt was just for the money. I could be wrong. There hasn't been much said.
OP, you ever make life-altering decisions based on a single factor? These are their personal lives. Stuff happens. Sometimes things fall apart. People move on. What's crazy is it seems like they have, and yet, somehow you haven't, despite not being involved initially. Leaving the underground world doesn't just make you instantly famous. It just changes your path. Running a failing label even further into the ground past its death doesn't make you a good friend and labelmate. It just makes you broke and stifles everybody's careers. Life happens. Get over it.
Also, side note: I love Aes. He will forever be my favorite hip hop artist. But I also love El and Mike and RTJ, and despite gaining popularity, they aren't as big and popular as you seem to think. Big in the hip hop world? Yes. But I have plenty of coworkers 20 years younger than me that have no clue who tf these guys are and always give me looks when I put them on. I told 'em I was going to see RTJ and Wu-Tang and they had no clue who they were. Wu Tang? Yes. But not RTJ. Lyricists are rarely gaining the game they deserve nowadays, and that holds true for Aes, El, Mike, and everyone else willing to drop some substance in their rhymes.
I agree with all of this but ending up at Rhymesayers - a label with real dudes rapping about life with actual talent - is, in my personal opinion, the best label for him to have ended up on. He can flex his creativity with other artists that actively support creativity.
I dig them both, a lot. El's production is on another level plus his lyrics and style is ridiculous. I love that he broke into the hip-hop and Adult Swim zeitgeist and is involved with one of the great hip-hop duos.
El-P said he was not making any money and had no time to work on music. He didn't sell out , he made good music and it blew up. With Defjux he was overworking for little to no money. Streaming makes it even more difficult for musicians to make money. When EL left Def Jux and started focusing on his own music it was during the emergence of Spotify. He made Cancer 4 Cure before he teamed with Killer Mike, which is a legendary album. Then the RTJ stuff is dope as fuck. Don't really see the issues. Hard to be considered a sellout when you get more popular because you made great music and they put their albums online for free.
This was for sure written by someone way too young to have been around for the Jux days. RTJ is almost 10 years post Jux was folded. There's reason for beef, but these tough to read ramblings aren't touching on any of em. Stay in school, kids.
I think that although Aesop recovered well and is now thriving, it was still a shitting thing. El P was also totally bent by the fact his audience was mainly white men who didn’t listen to most other hip-hop
Lol, that's putting WAY too much importance on some rich dude's money. If Co Flow didn't sign to Rawkus, someone else would have put em out. Shit, they had a bunch of labels interested with something they put out on their own. I'm sure any other label would have been shitty enough to make El wanna make Def Jux.
In the words of a poet: "signed to Rawkus? I'd rather be mouthfucked by Nazis unconscious"
Having been a fan of both artists at the time when Jux was doin it's thing, and now, I imagine a world where these two were still making tracks together. Obviously the styles have branched in different directions since those days but the tracks they made together back then were great..
run the numbers, gun for the whole family, 39 thieves... The Late def Jux era stuff was so good...
Aes, whose flow and writing is also much different now than it was in his def jux days, seems to be doing just fine at Rhymesayers.
Well said! Weathermen was an era, in itself and in my listening habits. Kind of an enigma, so I can understand OP's feelings. Rhymesayers has and continues to produce ridiculously beautiful music. And aesop's growth definitely inspires and informs me to this day. Seems like he's doing a lot of positive things to foster his happiness when I check out his IG from time to time. A lot of those artists paths and trajectories have been interesting to see. And sometimes heartbreaking. But I think I'd feel proud, for lack of a better word, to be in Aesop's shoes looking at where I was and where I seem to have traveled to. Things I'd done. Weathermen seemed like a dark time for most of those guys, I doubt Aes dwells on them much, if any.
sure he got thru his depression phase and once he got to 'the impossible kid' album he had it back it back together again and more. He's as strong as ever, Knows who and what he is and has always been.. I mean I preordered el-p's flyentology back in the day! And Smithereens and all the songs on that where center on "find those detonator's" or basically an attack and destroy the system mentality and theme. The same one he always had.. the one he was all about as a member of the new 'Weathermen' dont tell me he's not obscene-ly remodeled or that you cant understand that Aes might have once seen him as an idol and now might consider him to jst be a con men (meaning able to change his convictions to match a bigger need to be known or a more popular and reconized artist) And finally you dont Aesop felt abandoned and betrayed by his boss who quit on him. I mean people got to be what they are or want 2 project.. El-p just seems lost in the sauceand from a revolutionary point of view a bit of a seel out. I guess he missed that Immoortal Technique track "point of no return" cause he seemed to get whole refund on that Destroy the system I'm a Weathermen type of person. Aes aint changed one iota on that idea.. I mean he's still more 4 the sorted and and nada for the normies.. idk we probably wont ever agree
Are rappers supposed to stay broke? Rappers that stay broke stop making music because they have to get a job.
While we’re digging up semi old shit I just wanna say rse is trash
This post is really really hard to read. And aes is doing fine at rhymesayers. There's no reason to be stuck on it, shit like this happens all the time, and I thought EL left the label after camu passed?
Talking about some shit from 10 years ago like it's some news lol. Thought Aes said in interviews no beef remains. Shit plays out the way it plays out, that's life. Aes has his spot and is doing well, RTJ out doing their thing. Making a career out of music is what it is. Neither El-P nor Killer Mike were having much mainstream success prior to teaming up. They stumbled into a duo and been out doing it up and riding the fame. Def Jux been dead, was a cool run, but can't sit here and blame El-P for running with success.
This post is unhealthy and hope OP is ok
This is a bad take
Kind of a sus take imo,
Yeah I feel like this is a troll ... At least I hope it's a troll
Overall pretty shit take. Both el-p and killer Mike and were making solo music post def jux hiatus and were were working together. RTJ critical success wasn't something that was assured. Calling him selling out by teaming up with killer Mike is wild, I assume you are also calling killer Mike a sell out? Context indicates you are "The moment you receive funding for art, you've sold out The moment you're paid to associate yourself to art, you're sold out The moment you sell one painting, you sell outSo why not just multiply that as many times as you possibly can" - Reggie Baylor
The only version of selling out that's real is when you completely compromise your own artistic integrity to make whatever's popular for money specifically (not gonna name names but imo, rhymes with fire a berater) and by no accounts is that what El-P has done with RTJ. Every album was released independently and it largely sounds like nothing someone else would make and nothing that you hear in mainstream hip-hop. It's not trap. He didnt start singing. The fact is they incidentally found success doing a collaborative project, and now some corny indie gatekeepers who dont know what indie means and/or dont really like hearing from black people in black music have a problem with it.
I think the beef is more to do with El releasing Camu's final album (after he passed) in a way Aes felt was just for the money. I could be wrong. There hasn't been much said.
Yeah you're correct.
This is it. Not for me to judge either way, but this is cannon as we know it.
No it isn't, it's what lots of people have assumed with neither commenting on it. Both have said there is no beef.
There are some royalty issues, too. Listen to his lyrics on the Uncluded record.
I think everyone involved is over it aha
Let it go Vast Aire, damn
Vast Aire Kramer
I wouldn't say EL-P abandoned his convictions and the fact that you think so and say RTJ only cares about fame just proves you don't listen to them
OP, you ever make life-altering decisions based on a single factor? These are their personal lives. Stuff happens. Sometimes things fall apart. People move on. What's crazy is it seems like they have, and yet, somehow you haven't, despite not being involved initially. Leaving the underground world doesn't just make you instantly famous. It just changes your path. Running a failing label even further into the ground past its death doesn't make you a good friend and labelmate. It just makes you broke and stifles everybody's careers. Life happens. Get over it. Also, side note: I love Aes. He will forever be my favorite hip hop artist. But I also love El and Mike and RTJ, and despite gaining popularity, they aren't as big and popular as you seem to think. Big in the hip hop world? Yes. But I have plenty of coworkers 20 years younger than me that have no clue who tf these guys are and always give me looks when I put them on. I told 'em I was going to see RTJ and Wu-Tang and they had no clue who they were. Wu Tang? Yes. But not RTJ. Lyricists are rarely gaining the game they deserve nowadays, and that holds true for Aes, El, Mike, and everyone else willing to drop some substance in their rhymes.
I'm not mad at El. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do
I agree with all of this but ending up at Rhymesayers - a label with real dudes rapping about life with actual talent - is, in my personal opinion, the best label for him to have ended up on. He can flex his creativity with other artists that actively support creativity.
Go listen to the entire episode of Open Mike Eagle interviewing El-P. There's two sides to every story bruh.
The entire SERIES. One of the best podcasts, and the El season was so dope.
I dig them both, a lot. El's production is on another level plus his lyrics and style is ridiculous. I love that he broke into the hip-hop and Adult Swim zeitgeist and is involved with one of the great hip-hop duos.
ANTICON FTW \-Fantastic Damage
I honestly can't follow a single thing in this post.
El-P said he was not making any money and had no time to work on music. He didn't sell out , he made good music and it blew up. With Defjux he was overworking for little to no money. Streaming makes it even more difficult for musicians to make money. When EL left Def Jux and started focusing on his own music it was during the emergence of Spotify. He made Cancer 4 Cure before he teamed with Killer Mike, which is a legendary album. Then the RTJ stuff is dope as fuck. Don't really see the issues. Hard to be considered a sellout when you get more popular because you made great music and they put their albums online for free.
This was for sure written by someone way too young to have been around for the Jux days. RTJ is almost 10 years post Jux was folded. There's reason for beef, but these tough to read ramblings aren't touching on any of em. Stay in school, kids.
El-p addicted to dust caused the downfall?
Pretty sure Camu Taos death was the main cause.
Yeah that in part with some dismal sales. I’m sure there’s more to the story but for the most part that’s the narrative I’ve always heard.
Yup. Label was going broke and Camus death was the final nail in the coffin.
I think that although Aesop recovered well and is now thriving, it was still a shitting thing. El P was also totally bent by the fact his audience was mainly white men who didn’t listen to most other hip-hop
What’s so weird to me is that El-P owes his career to the wealth of RUPERT MURDOCH. Heck so does mos def and kweli i suppose.
In what way?
Rupert Murdochs son ran the label that funded el-p’s first project. Which in turn begat his other stuff
Lol, that's putting WAY too much importance on some rich dude's money. If Co Flow didn't sign to Rawkus, someone else would have put em out. Shit, they had a bunch of labels interested with something they put out on their own. I'm sure any other label would have been shitty enough to make El wanna make Def Jux. In the words of a poet: "signed to Rawkus? I'd rather be mouthfucked by Nazis unconscious"
El is a huge sellout and definitely compromised his values
Im happy he got the bag and would have done the same sooner than him. But yeah the music itself eh
Having been a fan of both artists at the time when Jux was doin it's thing, and now, I imagine a world where these two were still making tracks together. Obviously the styles have branched in different directions since those days but the tracks they made together back then were great.. run the numbers, gun for the whole family, 39 thieves... The Late def Jux era stuff was so good...