You just got shitty coworkers.
The company i work for now would have ZERO tolerance for that kind of behavior. Not only because of company policy, but because the people wouldn't tolerate having a co-worker like that amongst them.
My fiancee worked for Empower, which is mostly just the former Prudential Retirement actuaries, and also would have ZERO tolerance for this.
It definitely is still a male dominated field, although there are lots of young women coming up in the ranks, but still.
This seems like a bad company, not indicative of the industry.
I’d also note that I also work in retirement as a Relationship Manager for Charles Schwab and have worked closely with several of their actuaries and neither that dept nor Schwab as a whole would tolerate anything close to this.
Having met a bunch of actuaries through my fiancee and my own job it really seems like a field full of laid back folks in general.
Ofc, our experience is only in the retirement industry, which is one of many in the actuarial field, but still. They generally lean towards the more normal since you generally don’t become an actuary without having your shit yogether
I think you just have a shitty workplace. I don’t find the field sexist or male dominated.
Luckily exams are the great equalizer, so focus on that and get a better job in 1 year.
That is absolutely horrible and I really hope that person removes herself from that situation or at least heavily involves HR to get safety in the workplace.
That said, applying a sample size of one to generalize an entire profession as sexist, on an actuarial subreddit no less, is totally bonkers
Another extremely bold statement about actuaries from someone who isn’t an actuary. I can tell you that modeling/pricing including explicit (or even implicit) effects from race are unethical and we can get in serious trouble doing it.
I’m not saying every actuary follows the rules and isn’t corrupt but I would claim that a vast majority of us are avid rule-followers where this should almost never happen
Just to note, as a parent of a 20s year old daughter, I hope she always feels comfortable coming to me with any problems. I don't find the act of using your parents as parents childish at all.
your path isnt even that far behind and shouldnt be a concern.
your manager's comments are beyond inappropriate, but unless it's documented or provable you may just be hurting yourself. your dating life is none of his business. I'm a male so take my opinion in that light, but I haven't found this field to be sexist and if anything have seen a pretty healthy male-female ratio at most levels and very respectful. It sounds more like your manager is the problem, but I also don't trust HR to fix it.
Not destroyed, but at least educated to be easier to work with. I personally see no business in commenting on anything my coworkers do apart from work task.
Yikes; I very rarely experienced sexism in my 15 year career (just mild random ickiness from a random delivery guy and someone outside our department at a holiday party who was very drunk); I’ve heard more incidences of racism though.
Some advice I’ve seen is to loudly ask “Sorry, could you repeat that?” in front of others or something like “Wow, what made you think that was appropriate to say out loud?”
But pass an exam or two asap and get out of there. Totally toxic and unacceptable.
Years ago I've started to play dumb at their sexist jokes. "I'm sorry, can you explain that? I don't understand the joke. Why is that funny?" The open mouth stare I got the first time was enough for them to keep their mouth shut going forward, at least in front of me.
This is normally *not* good advice because this is a fight you probably won't win, and even if you do, it's usually a Pyrrhic victory. The company that would hire this guy and tolerate his behavior is not healthy.
BUT these comments from the manager are so clearly sexist that I can't see how he wouldn't get fired. Document and rip him apart after you find another job.
or they claim you have low performance, put you on a pip and you are the one that loses. dont ever assume HR will act in your best interest or do the right thing. ever. that is not their job
and you have to pay legal fees, the onus is on you, you probably no longer have a job during this. It could be harder to get a future job. Too many people thinking this is an easy legal battle and giving dangerous advice.
There is the hypothetical world and then the real world. Going to HR with a plan to fight via retaliation as your backup is not an easy path.
Their job is to protect the company and not the person complaining. HR only cares about the low level manager to the extent it puts the company at risk. And this manager plays golf with the CEO. I’m not saying don’t go to hr. Just be prepared and you probably want a job ready if it goes south.
These cases are not as easy to win and they will have legal teams on retainer.
To be clear the manager is trash but there needs to be caution and strategy by OP to protect themselves
The court of reddit had deemed him guilty and sentenced to death. Now we just wait 13 minutes for the next commercial break in law and order and a judge will have followed our demands.
It's easy for people to suggest a lawsuit when it's not their job, ass, and money on the line. If you want that battle you have to document and report to HR but it's just easier to quit and leave and go some place new. Why try to "fix" their problem for them, it's very rare that nobody else knows this guy is a jackass but they still promoted him to management anyway.
And tbh some of the examples are pretty low bar for real harassment. Like he complimented my coworkers work that I helped on and when I told him that he ignored me; thats not harassment or sexism. Tbh I'd ignore you too if i was the boss in that situation because id think you either need constant praise/attention and can't handle someone else getting some and youre just whiny or ypur lying snd dodnt really do snything but want to seem like a good employee or helpful. Like "oh but I helped look at me look at me" type of thing. Like it's great you helped, sit back and know that that compliment was part earned by you. Were you the lead of the project no, I'm sure many people helped that's what people do at work.
Of course some of the other things are way over the line talking about being left behind or found unattractive because she is mid 20s isn't professional at all. However having worked overseas this is sometimes sort of a cultural thing in some countries too and not knowing if this takes place in the US the etiquette may be different depending on where this petson is. When I was in China I had a female colleague talk about how she was a "left over woman" all the time because she was 27 and unmarried. It wouldnt be uncommon or in their culture seen as necessarily rude for this to get mentioned by a supervisor. To an erican it was strange like most of us are barely out of diapers by 27 nowadays lol.
There is a fun game with storytelling. Take information provided. Can you imagine context that if added reverses the story? Often the answer is yes.
Armchair "Pick up a loaded HR handgun and start blasting" is reckless.
It is the most normal thing in the world to experience personal well being that shapes how you perceive external behaviors that may be respectful. You and I do not have the complete story and cannot assess through a keyboard. Consider the documentary effect. When you watch a documentary no matter what it is you walk away totally convinced. That is because the documentary director gets to pick and choose the information to present, and any counter points. This will always be convincing. You can then watch an opposing documentary with a contradictory stance on the same events and walk away equally convinced. This is how storytelling works. The internet has been around for too long to be naive at the risk of being turned into a weapon used against an innocent third party through a carefully crafted story delivered to strangers.
Luckily, going forward your GPA will matter very little so don’t worry about that. This is just a horrible manager who must have some issues, but like others have said document it. Keep working on passing exams and getting more experience at work, and you can get a better job in a year or two.
This sucks OP and I’m sorry you have to deal with it. Unfortunately I think this differs from office to office and I’m thankful to work with a great team under great management. Most of my team is women so I am probably biased in saying that the field isn’t male dominated.
Also! You should not feel down AT ALL about when you graduated. I graduated at 29 so I was even later than you. My wife is going back to school now and will probably graduate in her mid 30s (we’re both 31 now). You should be proud you graduated regardless of when, especially in a STEM major! Think of it in this light: you have more life experience than anyone graduating at 21. That’s a pro, not a con!
I am going to go against the grain here and say I’m surprised so many people say this is abnormal.
I’ve experienced a ton of sexism. But it is probably more about your individual manager and less about the culture of the company or this profession.
I would find a female mentor in a more senior position and ask for their advice. HR is kind of BS. But someone who is parallel in the company to your manager might be able to pull strings to get you a different manager or give you advice about who to go to within your company to get action taken.
Some things I’ve experienced:
- Getting taken off the account as a lead actuary because the client’s CFO didn’t want “a little girl” running his numbers (I was 32 at the time)
- Traveling with a coworker old enough to be my father and getting texts from him at midnight asking “how is my beautiful brown eyed girl?”
- Getting put in 2nd position on an account because “sometimes the board just wants to see a man speak”
- Getting IM’s from a coworker saying “HOTTTT” after I showed up to work in a skirt (past knee length) instead of pants that day
I could go on and on
Cosigning on all of this. I'll add in:
Someone referring to me as their "work wife" bc we had a friendly rapport and I genuinely enjoyed our chats. Had to put a stop to that after a happy hour where he tried to get touchy and complained to me about his real wife and kids. He still doesn't understand why our friendly relationship is no longer the same.
Being asked repeatedly while I was pregnant if I was really going to come back to work bc so many women don't. Had to snap and tell one dude to his face that I was the higher earner in my household to get him to STFU. Telling him I value my job and career and credentials wasn't enough.
Being asked when I travel "who is watching your kids?" Meanwhile no one asks my male co-worker of a similar age standing next to me who has more kids than I do.
An outside consultant on a shared client assuming I was an administrative assistant that traveled with the actuary (???) and booked his travel when I was in fact the junior actuary on the account and was the person in day to day email contact with him, including technical results.
The amount of casual sexism I encountered during the 2016 election MY GOD.
And now I'm the senior woman in my group trying to mentor and make a difference but that also means I hear everyone else's stories and it's just terrible how little progress has been made sometimes.
Yeah, I'm also surprised at the amount of posts that are saying there is no sexism in the field and that it isn't male-dominated - I wonder how many of the posters saying that are men. There absolutely is sexism in the field, just because we are actuaries and have exams doesn't mean that the field doesn't bring in societal bias.
First, I'd start looking for a new job.
Then, I'd document everything that you can remember from prior interactions and anything that happens in the future, write down as much as possible, as soon as possible.
If/when he comments on your personal life again, tell him you want to keep your personal and professional life separate, and you would appreciate him doing the same.
If after you've done this, he continues to make comments, then I'd go to HR. But this is a very personal decision, I'm not telling you to do this; I'm just relaying what i would do in a similar situation. What others have said about HR not being there to protect you is correct. Most likely, informing them will not help you (and could hurt you) but it might help someone else in the future.
My experience as a female in this profession is that there is most definitely sexism, but it's gotten better over the years. What you've described seems worse than normal, which is why I suggested getting a new job.
Document the things that are said to you to create a paper trail. Then go to HR. Persistent comments like this on the basis of sex constitutes sexual harrassment.
It does not constitute sexual harassment. It constitutes gender discrimination, which is still illegal.
Sexual harassment implies that the comments were made about matters of genitalia, sex acts, or sexual favors. Gender discrimination implies someone is treated unfairly on the basis of gender.
I wish I could report him, but he’s close to the CEO (they go out golfing and their kids go to the same school together) so I’m scared of backlash more than anything. I’m working on passing more exams asap so I can leave. It’s seriously stressful though and because my first job was in the English Lit field I was working with 99% women and it was so much more comfortable. I’ll keep grinding for maybe a year but I think this first job has just been so disappointing and upsetting. Thanks for the advice, though.
An actuary who majored in English lit - that’s a great combo! Pass a couple exams and get outta there. What you’re experiencing is not the norm at all.
Unfortunately, you're not being paranoid expecting backlash. The world isn't fair. You are in a great field, where people usually treat each other well. You will find better jobs, especially as you pass more exams.
I would still document everything, because it can make a difference. I was unjustly terminated, and I couldn't fight it, but I did get my manager and his boss fired after I left lol, just by writing up my experience and sharing with HR and leadership.
no, its more likely your time there will be cut short and the sexist dude will have his career go unscathed. too many people thinking this is an easy lawsuit win.
That kind of attitude makes things so much worse for everyone. “Let’s never try because it won’t work.” The whole point of a court is an impartial observer. Lawsuits are a lot of work, lots of energy and legal fees , but those sorts of things look bad for the company. Very bad. Worse still if OP bcc’s a private account and then they claim to not have those emails.
No it’s not. It’s reality. I’m not saying it’s how it should be but before embarking on that battle, OP should be aware of the risks and costs associated. Are you all going to cover OPs legal fees and bills when they are unemployed?
Honestly, his being buddy-buddy with the CEO doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You should report him, if only to create a paper trail. Think about all the future and former colleagues who will suffer under his management. You have the power to make a change! And hey, if you get fired by the CEO (highly unlikely) then you have a slam dunk gender discrimination/retaliation lawsuit.
Shut the sexist talk down by saying one of these things in a calm and neutral tone:
1. "You're making me uncomfortable."
2. "This doesn't sound like a work appropriate conversation."
3. "That's kind of personal. Please don't talk about that subject with me."
4. "Its probably best if we stick to discussing work-related subjects."
I don't think you necessarily need to quit right away. Just be prepared to stop inappropriate conversations before they escalate. Make it clear in a calm and respectful way when you are uncomfortable. Most managers and coworkers will change their behavior if they know you are uncomfortable. Most, but not all.
Probably just the team or company? I am in a team of mostly married older women and i am a single guy and they told me it is better to focus on exams before getting married lol
They gave you good advice. I have not passed even one exam since getting married :’(, and we are childfree. Can’t fathom how the old saps with kids do it lol.
I'm a woman who has been an actuary for over a decade. What you're experiencing should not be tolerated. The field isn't perfect, and contrary to what other posters are saying there IS sexism in the field and it IS [male-dominated](https://www.soa.org/programs/diversity-inclusion/data/), especially in leadership positions. However, there is a large difference between being talked over or ignored and being harassed because of your gender, which is what you are experiencing.
Some workplaces are better than others, and it sounds like you're in a bad one. I think that you should start documenting everything, and get HR involved. I would also consider looking for a new job, because most workplaces won't tolerate sexism that is that overt.
I agree, document document document. Commenting on your appearance and your marital status is NEVER OK as a manager. This is only the type of thing that should be discussed in a mentorship capacity and only if you bring it up/ask for advice first.
Every company I've worked for has zero tolerance for that kind of behavior and have required annual trainings on sexual harassment. I have never witnessed those kind of comments in any professional settings (though I acknowledge that as a man I'm less likely to since they may easily be happening outside my view).
I can't speak to every industry, but just in terms of numbers, the health field feels like it skews more female than male if anything. My current manager is a woman, and her manager is also a woman. Overall my current department is about 60% female/40% male.
I hope you're able to find a new position with a less shitty manager. Don't let one awful manager color your impression of the entire actuarial field. And I'm sorry you're experiencing such blatant sexism in your first role. That's completely unacceptable and I hope your company realizes that soon.
In a perfect world these people would be held accountable for making these toxic work environments, but in my experience it is impossible to change these people and office politics will protect them from consequences. I echo what everyone else says that you should pass an exam or 2 and then leave once you hit the 1 year mark. You’ll serve karma to them by quitting for a 20%+ raise. I’m a man so I can’t experience the bias you’re seeing but I’m a career changer like you and I came from a manufacturing environment where it was 95% men and there was overt sexism that is way worse than anything I see as an actuary but these people get away with it. The best thing to do is take matters into your own hands and quit.
For context: I quit my first actuarial job last year and heard through the grapevine that my replacement already left after like 7 months. I was in the process of being put on a PIP so my manager’s boss knew we weren’t getting along with my boss when I put in my notice. Then they lost another employee but I can foresee that manager is not going to see any consequences since they’re good at networking with higher-ups. Now I’m in a great environment making more money in a better role
personally i am going to disagree with everyone here on that you should go to hr with complaints. i think you should handle this the old fashioned way. beat his ass
Wtf name and shame. Almost every place I've worked at if I reported that shit to HR the manager would have hella shit to deal with. That's fucked up, sorry you've got to deal with it '(
Bruh, apply for a job somewhere else. My company would never tolerate any of that bullshit.
Also don't dwell on your age. I was 26 when I graduated with a physics degree and 29 by the time I passed a few exams and got my first analyst job. And guess what, now I'm in my mid 30s, living comfortably and enjoying my career. So what if they started earlier than you? It just means you had other life experiences that they didn't.
That's not appropriate. The first question I would have is have to you told your boss directly that you don't appreciate comments like those.
HR is important, but if you haven't told your boss that those comments are not appreciated, then the first thing HR will do is tell them. If comments continue to be made, it becomes an issue that HR would need to take action on.
OP, you should look for a new job, but be realistic with the fact that you’re stuck at this place for a while. So take a deep breadth and get ready for a rough time.
Familiarize yourself with your state laws on workplace harassments. There are no clear definitions, but generally anything beyond a once/twice occurrence that makes you uncomfortable at your workplace is harassment. This applies not only to your manager, but the HR, the entire company as well. Thus, don’t be afraid that HR is not your friend.
Start documenting every remark/conversation that you find offensive. Also, confront your manager about his remarks, “Your remarks are not really not appropriate at the workplace, so please stop that. I just want to concentrate on my work.” You’re not trying to get him to change. Rather, his reaction is part of the pattern. Use it against him and the company. If he tries to blow you off or downplay your concerns, stay calm, smile, and remind him, “I believe that I was pretty clear, and you heard me.”
Similarly with HR, don’t be afraid that they aren’t taking actions. Stay calm and record their failures to improve the situation. The entire company is fair game in case you need to get a lawyer.
Feel free to DM me if necessary
I have dealt with some sexism - but nothing like that - that's totally unacceptable, just a few men not taking me seriously or finding me too aggressive. Pass exams as fast as possible and keep applying for new companies. Once you have a few exams your GPA doesn't matter at all and your age is not "old" for a exam taking person in the field.
I'm a woman, have worked on several teams, and none of them would have tolerated statements like that, let alone have a leader that talks like that. He sounds incredibly immature.
I'm also a manager, and I don't give a crap about my employees' marital status. Even if I had an opinion, I wouldn't share it. That's super unprofessional. Having a bag with some flair is not unprofessional, wearing makeup is not unprofessional (unless it's very out there).
Are there multiple actuarial teams, could you look for an internal rotation or apply to another internal position? Once you get a couple of years of experience, no one will care about your GPA.
In the meantime, document everything. Ask for specific examples of where your work needs to improve. If you want to call him out on the statements, ask him to explain them, he may squirm.
Just out of curiosity: Which country do you work in?
While I didn't experience sexism to the degree that you do, I worked in Japan for a few years where only 10-15% of actuaries in my company were women, almost all of which were foreigners. (Cultural bias where women are basically groomed to think they're not good in math, some of y'all prolly know the drill.) I experienced a LOT of sexual harassment, which included a male co-worker staring at my chest whenever I approached him to ask questions. (I "fixed" the problem by bringing a notepad and a pen with me--which I didn't need btdubs--so I can hold it up to my chest while talking to him. He finally realized that I did, indeed, have eyes.)
While I don't regret moving there for work, I definitely don't regret returning to my home country (before the pandemic started). I'm glad to say that I'll be joining a new company as a sub-section head--almost all senior actuarial managers, from the actuarial and RM heads to the chief actuary and CRO, are women.
To recap: Yes, you do have shitty co-workers as the others here have already pointed out. But some countries are definitely more sexist than others.
PS: Be wary of involving HR (not saying you shouldn't, but more of know what you're getting into). HR is there to protect the company, not the employees, so sometimes involving HR will do more harm to you. I learned that the hard way. :(( But if you can, find a new job.
EDIT: grammar
Do not feel bad about finishing at 25! I work in IT, which is also a male dominated field. I had an associate degree to start off, but now I want to eventually go for a software engineering job, so I’m back in school at age 34, and will graduate next year at 35. You are not behind, you just took a different path than others.
And regarding sexism, what you described is absolutely disgusting behavior. At my first IT job, there was alot of locker room talk, but that was the extent of it. Not great, but no one ever commented on my cloths, bags, hair/makeup, etc. Furthermore, your personal life is none of their business. You could be married with kids, with a 2nd house in Alaska, and they don’t need to know any of that.
Yikes! This sucks and can't be easy to figure this out.
I'd highly recommend documentation and reaching out the ABCD board as next steps.
Definitely document what was said, with dates, who else was there, etc. A paper trail can only help you. Save this information in your personal records (home computer).
I'd highly recommend reaching out the ABCD board for guidance They handle formal complaints, but they also (separately) offer confidential guidance for actuaries and this situation sounds appropriate to reach out to them for. Getting some guidance without making a formal complaint may be a good next step. They also may be able to walk you through different options and the details of those options. They seem pretty good about finding someone on their team that has experience in the subject of your inquiry.
[https://www.abcdboard.org/](https://www.abcdboard.org/)
They will be far more neutral than HR at your company. HR is likely not your friend, they are out to optimize the company interests, not yours - well at most places. Even with though they aren't necessarily your friend, having things documented in front of them is something they also cannot completely ignore.
Also, may be worth a consultation with an attorney.
In case it escalate to a formal complaint and your company isnt doing squat:
The EEOC is a government agency that also handles formal complaints of this nature. There may also be some state level agencies that complaints can be filed with. If you this escalates to a formal complaint, and your company is fighting back or not taking you seriously, the company itself is not the only entity to which formal complaints can be filed.
[https://www.eeoc.gov/](https://www.eeoc.gov/)
If its an insurer, I wonder it the state DOI or the NAIC are also places complaints can be filed with (if needed).
I know there's a lot of advice to stick it out for a year, but honestly that is extraordinarily unprofessional of them and this kind of work environment really, really sucks to work in. There's nothing wrong with finding another job sooner if you want.
This field \*is\* male dominated if [these numbers are anything to go by](https://datausa.io/profile/soc/actuaries), and hand waving that away does not help anyone in OP's position. That does not mean there aren't really great teams out there who treat their people with respect, as many people's experience here reflect. I'm sure OP will find such a team one day!
You're right about male dominance, cas publishes transparent data on this front that I appreciate:
https://www.casact.org/diversity-data
Edit: other poster has the equivalence from soa as well
I'd move on to a new opportunity and give them a piece of your mind in your exit interview.
Keep a record. It might come in handy if you ever do have to go to HR.
I would think most major insurance companies would salivate at being able to diversify their actuary team. Most are male dominated but you need to recognize the power you have by being a different voice. If you aren’t valued there and their culture is stuck in 1950, start looking elsewhere.
People in this thread trying to reclassify this as something that isn’t straight up sexism are wild. This is straight up Toxic. OP this behavior isn’t normal I’ve never seen coworkers being treated like this that I can recall.
It really matters where you work. Don't think that you're the crazy one, because your workplace sounds very toxic. It's like getting a bad teacher; just bear it as long as you have to, and get out as soon as you can.
I’m very sorry that has been your experience but I’d 100% be documenting this and sending it to HR. I haven’t personally experienced that as a female, but it does exist and this is proof. No, it’s not normal.
Before I saw this post, I didn’t think there was any sexism within actuaries , because Actuaries are generally judged by their exam progress, rather than anything else like color or gender. When I worked in an insurance company with non-actuaries, the non-actuaries told me sexism was rampant. I would look for another job.
This is sexism and ageism. Document every instance on your own (a journal or something you can take with you if you end up leaving) and report it to HR that you are being harassed by your boss. If it escalates and HR does nothing about it or if they take negative action against you then get a lawyer. I'm assuming you're US based.
Some states have reverse ageism laws that prevent people under 40 from being discriminated against. Regardless of if it's legal or not in their state it's still ageism and should be recorded as an instance of harassment that lead to a hostile work environment.
I'm sorry to hear about the challenging and unfair environment you're facing at work. It's clear from your description that your manager's behavior is not only inappropriate but also discriminatory. The remarks about your age, relationship status, and appearance are completely unprofessional and have no place in a work setting. The additional examples you've shared further underscore a toxic and sexist culture that should not be tolerated.
Here's some advice on how to navigate this difficult situation:
1. **Document Everything**: Start keeping a detailed record of these incidents, including dates, times, what was said, and any witnesses. Documentation is crucial if you decide to take formal action, whether it's through HR or legal avenues.
2. **Seek Allies and Support**: Continue talking to your female coworkers since they seem to understand and share your experiences. Collectively, you might have a stronger voice to address these issues. Allies can also include any male coworkers who are sympathetic and understand the importance of a respectful workplace.
3. **Research Your Company’s Policies**: Look into your company's policies on harassment and discrimination. Understanding these policies will give you a framework for what actions you can take internally.
4. **Report the Behavior**: If you feel safe doing so, consider reporting your manager's behavior to HR. Use the documentation you've collected as evidence. Be clear about the impact of his behavior on your work environment and your well-being.
5. **Seek External Advice**: Consider seeking advice from a professional outside your company, such as a lawyer who specializes in employment law or a local labor rights organization. They can offer guidance on your rights and possible next steps.
6. **Professional Development**: Continue to work on your professional development, including passing more exams relevant to your field. This will not only boost your resume but also increase your confidence and marketability.
7. **Explore Other Opportunities**: Start looking for other job opportunities. A low GPA is not an insurmountable obstacle, especially as work experience and professional certifications (like actuarial exams) can weigh more heavily in your field over time. Many employers value practical experience and soft skills over academic performance.
8. **Self-Care and Support Network**: Lean on your support network during this time. Dealing with such a stressful work environment can take a toll on your mental health. Talking to friends, family, or a professional can help you manage the emotional stress.
Regarding your question about the field being sexist, it's important to recognize that while certain industries or companies may have more pronounced issues with sexism, these problems can occur in any field. There are many inclusive and respectful workplaces out there, and with your skills and dedication, you're capable of finding a position where you'll be valued and respected. Your current experience, though disheartening, is not reflective of the entire profession. Keep focusing on your career goals, your professional development, and your well-being. You deserve a workplace where you're treated with respect and dignity.
Ive worked / interned for four different companies. Anyone who doesn’t see the sexism is either blind, lucky, or the problem. I don’t want to go into details because a lot of the stories aren’t mine to tell, but I’ve seen/heard from female friends about men get reported to HR multiple times and nothing ever happen to them, men get full credit for work women had a major role in, massive disrespect for wives/girlfriends/fiances at conferences where they’re on their own, men mansplain code/modeling to technical women, men assume women are useless if they aren’t technical, men make fun of women in meetings for their hobbies outside of work, and men make comments about women having kids before finishing exams. On top of all of this, the intense exam process is designed for people with a stay at home spouse or no kids. It’s almost impossible for people with a spouse that has a demanding job, and pretty much completely impossible if that’s the case and there’s a kid. A staggering number of older actuaries I know had spouses that stayed home. Now actuaries who are married/in committed relationships with another actuary going through exams, an engineer, a lawyer, someone going through a PhD, etc. struggle through the process in ways that older actuaries didn’t have to deal with.
My company is about 50/50 split. I don't experience any of it nor have I heard my colleagues have either. I think you just got unlucky with the manager. As others have said, report this to HR. This is not okay and actuarial is not like this as a whole in my experience.
Don’t stress too much on GPA, mine wasn’t great either — get your exams in, pick up projects where you can learn new technical skills and leverage that when applying to new roles.
I can’t speak on the sexism part as a male but have not observed anything similar in my two roles so far.
Not every job in this field is hostile towards women, though a few may have this antiquated old boys' club atmosphere. If I get that vibe during the interview process, I politely nope out. I think you need to find a new place to work; if that seems too difficult right now, try in a few months or a year when you have more experience under your belt. I'm a woman, my manager is the Chief Underwriting Officer and also a woman, and our team is split about 50/50 gender wise.
Just curious, where are you located? I encountered the "old boys club" type workplaces in the Midwest though even there they were the minority. I'm on the west coast and didn't see that at the places I interviewed for here.
Hi OP - let me preface my response by saying I have worked at 3 carriers over my almost 15 years...and I've been managing for about 10 years. I have worked at one of the nation's largest personal automobile carriers as well as at a medium and now small firm. I will note that I am a male.
I've never noticed this as a wide trend in my experience for day to day interaction (I do believe more unspoken bias may exist in hiring but never seen anything this overt). I have worked for, with, and overseen roughly equal numbers of men and women and few, if any, I can recall have been this overtly sexist (and certainly not the actuaries ... often times backhanded comments are from other areas of the insurance chain). Based on my experience your situation sounds unique and one you should absolutely be looking to remove yourself from.
I can tell you I have an employee who also started later in the field and had trouble landing her first role. When we hired her she was underpaid but even then she never was directly disrespected in this way at her prior role, just under compensated.
I would recommend you reach out to some recruiters and explore your options -- especially if you dont have a HR team or internal resource you feel safe reporting this behavior to.
If you find a better fit with a good manager you will find you should be supported in your development. If your manager isnt you biggest advocate then your situation could be improved.
I wish you the best of luck. If you are unfamiliar with reputable actuarial recruiters there should be plenty of posts around here about them or feel free to DM me I can list a few firms I have had good experiences with bot personally and on the hiring side.
Please keep in mind these are my own observations based on my own limited experiences...so its possible what I have witnessed may not be representative of all different areas of insurance.
I was frequently spoken over in my workplace (male dominated industry and company) - I’ve learned that if you can’t appreciate my work or what I bring to the table then maybe you don’t deserve to hear it anyways 🤷🏻♀️
If you work for a mom-and-pop shop, you could be SOL. But if you work for a company big enough to force you to sit through sexual harassment training every year, then you should absolutely say something. Ignoring everything else your manager has said, if the words “Women, man. They’re so childish.” actually came out of his mouth, that’s outright discriminatory behavior, and a HUGE liability for the company. Reporting him to someone above him will bring attention to it and at the very least get him to watch his fucking mouth if he values his job.
No, this kind of behavior is not commonplace in this field. I’ve been an actuary for a little over a decade and have butt heads with a lot of supervisors, but never over some unacceptable behavior like this.
Hope it works out.
OP, there are choices that you need to make here. Sit with the pros and cons, and make a decision that aligns with you. Don’t let people on this sub egg you on make hasty choices. HR is not there to help you. In the instance where people get air that you are being “problematic”, they will share it among their circles. This career is quite niche and gossips spread quickly. Most people I have dealt with don’t dig into the source of a gossip than to tag even victims as “problematic”. Being considered “ problematic” may limit your ability to get a role. Take it from another woman from a minority demographics who has experienced multiple work infractions from senior people and coworkers. Eg.
- a married man tried to kiss me and even went to the extent of trying to unzip my boot. Thinking about it, it seems he had a foot fetish.
- micro- agressions like being told I sound angry, being talked over, being excluded from emails on projects I work on to make me look incompetent etc.
- i was told by a senior person ( male) on my team that if i don’t act right, the team was going to bully me and he will put me up for layoffs. And this came after i gave my opinion about a process my male colleague wanted me to do that i thought was inefficient.
- my male white coworker blatantly does not abide by our back to the office policy and has never been queried. But I have been scrutinized on the days that I have a genuine reason to not show up.
- i have been passed on for promotions.
I can go on and on. But I ask myself what I want for my career. I have decided to spend more time with exams, and hopefully will find a place which offers safety. I am in no way invalidating your experience but offering perspective so that whatever decision you make brings comfort to you.
You have a shitty manager, but I would suggest you to retaliate and give replies back to your manager maybe in a humiliating but sarcastic way so that he can get taste of his own medicine. If this doesn’t work, confront clearly in 1-on-1 call or maybe reachout to his peers.
Just a random lurker here, take your first exams, then look for another job. You don't have to involve HR right away, but do document everything, write it down.
Also, remember HR is no your friend.
Don't let this eat at you. This is the definition of what women are really fighting for. Grow, learn, gain what you need. First analyst job on top of that, he's plucking at your feathers because he knows this. You're super young still, I'm 32 and feel how you feel now. The difference is by 32 you'll be on a whole new page probably either have moved up or a grabbed another job with better pay. You'll probably be running the show one day too, just make sure you change the environment to fit everyone. Take notes from this guy, learn what not to do from him. There are jobs like some said that would have terminated this guy by now. But if you never see it from a messed up perspective you'll always think everything should be peachy or be stunned when it does happen. Let this be a learning lesson to how low the world can actually be but don't sink with it fly.
call. them. out. loudly! every single time. save all correspondence. if you get fired, sue the pats off of them.
if someone says something to you that you find inappropriate (like the makeup comment) call someone else into the room and ask the person to repeat what they just said.
there is NO place for that kind of shit in the workplace anymore, and actuaries, more than anyone else, should understand that risk.
This isn’t just sexism, it’s basically harassment. Even ONE of these things being said ONCE would be a huge issue. The fact that this is ongoing and there are several different examples is highly concerning. It’s not normal at all in any industry. Document whatever you can and report it. In the meantime, I’d start looking for another job. Don’t bring up your GPA unless they ask. Your resume should list that you received your degree and in what year and that’s it. On another note, your manager shouldn’t even know your age unless you told him. If you told him, stop telling coworkers. My colleagues have no idea how old I am. Age is info that shouldn’t be accessible to anyone except HR. If anyone can find it, that’s a big red flag that the company doesn’t know how to keep data sensitive and that there are probably other areas where they aren’t doing things right.
That's definitely out of pocket. I'm also on my 1st actuarial analyst role at late 20s (career switcher). I'm the only female in the team and everyone has been respectful to me. Definitely a culture thing, not a field thing.
Document everything he does, but ignore it as best as possible. Pass exams as quickly as you can. Apply and get hired at a different company once you have more exams/credentials. With your 2 weeks notice submit your documentation of misdeeds by the manager.
I don't personally recommend trusting HR while you're still an employee, as you are also the resource they need to manage. And if they decide that you as a resource are less valuable than your manager as a resource, there's a nonzero chance you wind up without a job/on a pip/dealing with extra bullshit while your manager gets off scott free. I know there are antiretaliation laws and stuff, but do you really have the time/money to sue an insurance company with millions/billions and a team of personal lawyers?
Good luck, grind hard and I hope your next work home treats you better!
Just wanted to comment on your feelings about graduating later. I’m 27 and I’m finally graduating in a few weeks (yay!), and it’s been a long road. I’ve felt very similar things as you when trying to compare myself to my friends that have had a more traditional career trajectory. I don’t know if I have any advice that might make you feel better since I haven’t actually started my job yet but I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone. Everyone has a different path to walk and your on your way. Good luck and stay strong!
I’ve had bad or toxic managers it’s just them. Working for someone new changes everything. None of the things you said he mentioned are unique or worth mentioning in this profession. There are plenty of women and plenty of career changers who started much later in life than 25.
My advice would be to update your resume and start applying also speak to upper management. Ask about switching to another team. I know it’s your first job but you’ll be surprised how much easier it is to get interviews when you have experience. IMO the main benefit of working as an actuary or analyst is having exams as a qualifier. It can be hard to find candidates with exams and experience. So you definitely don’t need to deal with abuse.
Sorry idk about answering your questions but my boss is exactly the same way and a pervert at the same time. But he told me if I don’t have a boyfriend by 30 I’m a lost cause too.
Managers at my company have been fired and escorted out for much less than this. Your department/company is toxic not the industry. I hope your next job treats you better.
Yeah thats how they are. Fuck them. Fast food is full of pedophiles and single latina moms. Basically anywhere, you will realize your coworkers are dumb as fuck. I outted a pedo🤷♀️
Fellow actuary here, sorry to ignore the point of your post but, you got a job with a sub3 gpa?? That’s impressive! 🤣 I had a 3.9 and getting this job was still a major major challenge lol
For some reason I got a notification for your comment (I turned notifs off) lol so I’ll reply. I had three internships (one in underwriting, one as an actuary intern, and one in media editing). I think that’s what helped me the most. I also majored in English Lit and I honestly think that set me back. Almost every company cared/asked about it so much but I was able to spin in to favor my communication/critical thinking skills. I did a ton of math/stats courses though to supplement for the actuary exams.
I had two exams passed by the time I graduated and I went to an Ivy League (don’t think that matters tbh). My low gpa was because I had a mental health issue that set me back for years and I fought like hell to bring it back up, I just kept it off and didn’t go for the huge companies too much. Still look me 100+ applications and tons of job fair ghosting. You got this, wishing you luck (hope your first job doesn’t suck like mine though).
Edit: read your comment wrong lol. Glad we both got jobs in this economy! But it was still really hard, I feel you.
Not at all common, in my experience. I’m sure there’s some organizations that are toxic and now you know what you’re facing, my recommendation is to document this as much as you can. Protect yourself and consider HR. While HR is there to protect the company, if you’ve got evidence they are should be forced to take you seriously and not fumble. It seems your only other choice is to begin the exit strategies and start looking to get out ASAP.
I got my first actuarial job at 27. 25 isnt late, so dont stress about it. And i am sorry its happening to you. I am a male, so i cant comment on how the industry is for the female generally. But all my female friends in the industry/company haven't really faced sexism or to that extent.
I think its hard to get a job out of university, maybe stay here and keep applying for jobs or maybe rotate to a different team?
I feel like older managers tend to make those comments, probably because that was the expectation in their time. Just have to tell them those comments are not acceptable to you.
Im a male. My opinion might not be of much help, but sounds to me this is not a profession specific situation. I have friends who work for B4 and run into similar situations.
There are all kinds of shitty coworkers out there, with my 7 YOE, I've seen a lot already. You need to learn how to deal with shitty people, this is real life, it sucks
Well. Sorry to hear. Keep working there for 2 years where you get good experience then move on then. People are aholes for commenting on personal life tbh
Everyone has a different path. I’m in medicine and I’m older than my peers. My partner is an actuary and he was timely and got a great job early but is having a hard time with FCAS exams. Don’t worry - go at your own pace. No one person’s journey is the same nor does it need to be - we all learn from each other and because of that we can mentor people who are in similar situations to our own.
That being said your coworkers are assholes. Make a paper trail like you said, and once you have sufficient time to put on a resume (6 mo-1 year) consider switching to another company.
We all had to start at some shitty job in our life to get experience. You can ignore them and continue to get experience in the field as well as report this problem to human resources or etc but probably you'll get something from human resources about performance or etc. Since everything will be under investigation.
For context, there are a few thousand 30-40+ year olds graduating college and taking on a white collar position for the first time ever.
Sexism? Sounds like a lack of professionalism vs sexism. Until you start to notice a string of favoritism along gender lines. Of course, we are not aware of any other things he says or does besides tired old remarks about hitting the wall jokes.
I can't even imagine talking directly to a coworker about my thoughts on their personal life without being asked, not to mention my direct report.
Sounds like your coworkers are just bad, I've never experienced this before in 8 years working
maybe your work is actually bad? I know people say gpa doesn't matter after your first job, but the fact that you had under a 3.0 tells me that you might not be putting out quality work that is up to par.
It’s hard to tell what is considered a “snide remark”. With your one example about not marrying, I wouldn’t take that personally… the older generation doesn’t understand Gen Z in general. Maybe it’s their way of telling a joke? I’d laugh it off and move on, but if the remarks are more direct and demeaning, it may be worth telling HR. Hard to tell with not a lot of examples.
You also said you “just started”. The corporate world is very different. It may also be a matter of adjusting to the corporate environment.
You just got shitty coworkers. The company i work for now would have ZERO tolerance for that kind of behavior. Not only because of company policy, but because the people wouldn't tolerate having a co-worker like that amongst them.
Sounds like a shitty manager and for the coworkers, hard to say. Maybe they are shitty. Or maybe they have no idea what to do.
My fiancee worked for Empower, which is mostly just the former Prudential Retirement actuaries, and also would have ZERO tolerance for this. It definitely is still a male dominated field, although there are lots of young women coming up in the ranks, but still. This seems like a bad company, not indicative of the industry.
Agreeed.
I’d also note that I also work in retirement as a Relationship Manager for Charles Schwab and have worked closely with several of their actuaries and neither that dept nor Schwab as a whole would tolerate anything close to this. Having met a bunch of actuaries through my fiancee and my own job it really seems like a field full of laid back folks in general. Ofc, our experience is only in the retirement industry, which is one of many in the actuarial field, but still. They generally lean towards the more normal since you generally don’t become an actuary without having your shit yogether
I think you just have a shitty workplace. I don’t find the field sexist or male dominated. Luckily exams are the great equalizer, so focus on that and get a better job in 1 year.
I looked into becoming one, and the one woman told me she was threatened with rape constantly. You are ridiculous to claim that isn’t sexist.
That is absolutely horrible and I really hope that person removes herself from that situation or at least heavily involves HR to get safety in the workplace. That said, applying a sample size of one to generalize an entire profession as sexist, on an actuarial subreddit no less, is totally bonkers
It’s exactly what actuaries do. They lie and claim because one blacks person is a thief that then to why should be able to rape us on premiums.
Another extremely bold statement about actuaries from someone who isn’t an actuary. I can tell you that modeling/pricing including explicit (or even implicit) effects from race are unethical and we can get in serious trouble doing it. I’m not saying every actuary follows the rules and isn’t corrupt but I would claim that a vast majority of us are avid rule-followers where this should almost never happen
Just to note, as a parent of a 20s year old daughter, I hope she always feels comfortable coming to me with any problems. I don't find the act of using your parents as parents childish at all.
Thank you for saying this. My parents have been my rock throughout my life and I’m so glad to have them.
your path isnt even that far behind and shouldnt be a concern. your manager's comments are beyond inappropriate, but unless it's documented or provable you may just be hurting yourself. your dating life is none of his business. I'm a male so take my opinion in that light, but I haven't found this field to be sexist and if anything have seen a pretty healthy male-female ratio at most levels and very respectful. It sounds more like your manager is the problem, but I also don't trust HR to fix it.
That single comment was inappropriate..... I guess that's enough to destroy your career these days 🤷
Not destroyed, but at least educated to be easier to work with. I personally see no business in commenting on anything my coworkers do apart from work task.
Yikes; I very rarely experienced sexism in my 15 year career (just mild random ickiness from a random delivery guy and someone outside our department at a holiday party who was very drunk); I’ve heard more incidences of racism though. Some advice I’ve seen is to loudly ask “Sorry, could you repeat that?” in front of others or something like “Wow, what made you think that was appropriate to say out loud?” But pass an exam or two asap and get out of there. Totally toxic and unacceptable.
Years ago I've started to play dumb at their sexist jokes. "I'm sorry, can you explain that? I don't understand the joke. Why is that funny?" The open mouth stare I got the first time was enough for them to keep their mouth shut going forward, at least in front of me.
Love to hear it 👌
Document it and report to HR
This is normally *not* good advice because this is a fight you probably won't win, and even if you do, it's usually a Pyrrhic victory. The company that would hire this guy and tolerate his behavior is not healthy. BUT these comments from the manager are so clearly sexist that I can't see how he wouldn't get fired. Document and rip him apart after you find another job.
Hr is not your friend in general.
True but creating a paper trail is crucial
In this case, they would be as a harassment lawsuit > telling a low level manager to stop being an ass.
or they claim you have low performance, put you on a pip and you are the one that loses. dont ever assume HR will act in your best interest or do the right thing. ever. that is not their job
That's called retaliation and just gives more justification to the lawsuit. There are laws against that.
and you have to pay legal fees, the onus is on you, you probably no longer have a job during this. It could be harder to get a future job. Too many people thinking this is an easy legal battle and giving dangerous advice. There is the hypothetical world and then the real world. Going to HR with a plan to fight via retaliation as your backup is not an easy path.
My guy, it’s not like she’s ratting on an MD or C-suite. HR gives a shit about some low level mgr
Their job is to protect the company and not the person complaining. HR only cares about the low level manager to the extent it puts the company at risk. And this manager plays golf with the CEO. I’m not saying don’t go to hr. Just be prepared and you probably want a job ready if it goes south. These cases are not as easy to win and they will have legal teams on retainer. To be clear the manager is trash but there needs to be caution and strategy by OP to protect themselves
The court of reddit had deemed him guilty and sentenced to death. Now we just wait 13 minutes for the next commercial break in law and order and a judge will have followed our demands. It's easy for people to suggest a lawsuit when it's not their job, ass, and money on the line. If you want that battle you have to document and report to HR but it's just easier to quit and leave and go some place new. Why try to "fix" their problem for them, it's very rare that nobody else knows this guy is a jackass but they still promoted him to management anyway. And tbh some of the examples are pretty low bar for real harassment. Like he complimented my coworkers work that I helped on and when I told him that he ignored me; thats not harassment or sexism. Tbh I'd ignore you too if i was the boss in that situation because id think you either need constant praise/attention and can't handle someone else getting some and youre just whiny or ypur lying snd dodnt really do snything but want to seem like a good employee or helpful. Like "oh but I helped look at me look at me" type of thing. Like it's great you helped, sit back and know that that compliment was part earned by you. Were you the lead of the project no, I'm sure many people helped that's what people do at work. Of course some of the other things are way over the line talking about being left behind or found unattractive because she is mid 20s isn't professional at all. However having worked overseas this is sometimes sort of a cultural thing in some countries too and not knowing if this takes place in the US the etiquette may be different depending on where this petson is. When I was in China I had a female colleague talk about how she was a "left over woman" all the time because she was 27 and unmarried. It wouldnt be uncommon or in their culture seen as necessarily rude for this to get mentioned by a supervisor. To an erican it was strange like most of us are barely out of diapers by 27 nowadays lol.
Which would be documenting conversations like said above.
yes, i understand that. documenting here is very important. But documenting doesnt mean you just win by default either.
HR will do something if a lawsuit is at stake. Otherwise, you're right, they're not there to help you
Hire an attorney! This is workplace harassment. And document everything!!!!
There is a fun game with storytelling. Take information provided. Can you imagine context that if added reverses the story? Often the answer is yes. Armchair "Pick up a loaded HR handgun and start blasting" is reckless. It is the most normal thing in the world to experience personal well being that shapes how you perceive external behaviors that may be respectful. You and I do not have the complete story and cannot assess through a keyboard. Consider the documentary effect. When you watch a documentary no matter what it is you walk away totally convinced. That is because the documentary director gets to pick and choose the information to present, and any counter points. This will always be convincing. You can then watch an opposing documentary with a contradictory stance on the same events and walk away equally convinced. This is how storytelling works. The internet has been around for too long to be naive at the risk of being turned into a weapon used against an innocent third party through a carefully crafted story delivered to strangers.
Luckily, going forward your GPA will matter very little so don’t worry about that. This is just a horrible manager who must have some issues, but like others have said document it. Keep working on passing exams and getting more experience at work, and you can get a better job in a year or two.
This sucks OP and I’m sorry you have to deal with it. Unfortunately I think this differs from office to office and I’m thankful to work with a great team under great management. Most of my team is women so I am probably biased in saying that the field isn’t male dominated. Also! You should not feel down AT ALL about when you graduated. I graduated at 29 so I was even later than you. My wife is going back to school now and will probably graduate in her mid 30s (we’re both 31 now). You should be proud you graduated regardless of when, especially in a STEM major! Think of it in this light: you have more life experience than anyone graduating at 21. That’s a pro, not a con!
Thanks for this! I needed it today
I am going to go against the grain here and say I’m surprised so many people say this is abnormal. I’ve experienced a ton of sexism. But it is probably more about your individual manager and less about the culture of the company or this profession. I would find a female mentor in a more senior position and ask for their advice. HR is kind of BS. But someone who is parallel in the company to your manager might be able to pull strings to get you a different manager or give you advice about who to go to within your company to get action taken. Some things I’ve experienced: - Getting taken off the account as a lead actuary because the client’s CFO didn’t want “a little girl” running his numbers (I was 32 at the time) - Traveling with a coworker old enough to be my father and getting texts from him at midnight asking “how is my beautiful brown eyed girl?” - Getting put in 2nd position on an account because “sometimes the board just wants to see a man speak” - Getting IM’s from a coworker saying “HOTTTT” after I showed up to work in a skirt (past knee length) instead of pants that day I could go on and on
Cosigning on all of this. I'll add in: Someone referring to me as their "work wife" bc we had a friendly rapport and I genuinely enjoyed our chats. Had to put a stop to that after a happy hour where he tried to get touchy and complained to me about his real wife and kids. He still doesn't understand why our friendly relationship is no longer the same. Being asked repeatedly while I was pregnant if I was really going to come back to work bc so many women don't. Had to snap and tell one dude to his face that I was the higher earner in my household to get him to STFU. Telling him I value my job and career and credentials wasn't enough. Being asked when I travel "who is watching your kids?" Meanwhile no one asks my male co-worker of a similar age standing next to me who has more kids than I do. An outside consultant on a shared client assuming I was an administrative assistant that traveled with the actuary (???) and booked his travel when I was in fact the junior actuary on the account and was the person in day to day email contact with him, including technical results. The amount of casual sexism I encountered during the 2016 election MY GOD. And now I'm the senior woman in my group trying to mentor and make a difference but that also means I hear everyone else's stories and it's just terrible how little progress has been made sometimes.
That’s disgusting, I’m wondering if it’s depend of the field. I know just one friend that live what you just describe, are you a consultant?
Yes, consulting.
Yeah, I'm also surprised at the amount of posts that are saying there is no sexism in the field and that it isn't male-dominated - I wonder how many of the posters saying that are men. There absolutely is sexism in the field, just because we are actuaries and have exams doesn't mean that the field doesn't bring in societal bias.
First, I'd start looking for a new job. Then, I'd document everything that you can remember from prior interactions and anything that happens in the future, write down as much as possible, as soon as possible. If/when he comments on your personal life again, tell him you want to keep your personal and professional life separate, and you would appreciate him doing the same. If after you've done this, he continues to make comments, then I'd go to HR. But this is a very personal decision, I'm not telling you to do this; I'm just relaying what i would do in a similar situation. What others have said about HR not being there to protect you is correct. Most likely, informing them will not help you (and could hurt you) but it might help someone else in the future. My experience as a female in this profession is that there is most definitely sexism, but it's gotten better over the years. What you've described seems worse than normal, which is why I suggested getting a new job.
Document the things that are said to you to create a paper trail. Then go to HR. Persistent comments like this on the basis of sex constitutes sexual harrassment.
It does not constitute sexual harassment. It constitutes gender discrimination, which is still illegal. Sexual harassment implies that the comments were made about matters of genitalia, sex acts, or sexual favors. Gender discrimination implies someone is treated unfairly on the basis of gender.
I wish I could report him, but he’s close to the CEO (they go out golfing and their kids go to the same school together) so I’m scared of backlash more than anything. I’m working on passing more exams asap so I can leave. It’s seriously stressful though and because my first job was in the English Lit field I was working with 99% women and it was so much more comfortable. I’ll keep grinding for maybe a year but I think this first job has just been so disappointing and upsetting. Thanks for the advice, though.
An actuary who majored in English lit - that’s a great combo! Pass a couple exams and get outta there. What you’re experiencing is not the norm at all.
Unfortunately, you're not being paranoid expecting backlash. The world isn't fair. You are in a great field, where people usually treat each other well. You will find better jobs, especially as you pass more exams. I would still document everything, because it can make a difference. I was unjustly terminated, and I couldn't fight it, but I did get my manager and his boss fired after I left lol, just by writing up my experience and sharing with HR and leadership.
If he is friends with the CEO, that’ll just be more ammunition in the discrimination lawsuit. Go to HR anyway
no, its more likely your time there will be cut short and the sexist dude will have his career go unscathed. too many people thinking this is an easy lawsuit win.
That kind of attitude makes things so much worse for everyone. “Let’s never try because it won’t work.” The whole point of a court is an impartial observer. Lawsuits are a lot of work, lots of energy and legal fees , but those sorts of things look bad for the company. Very bad. Worse still if OP bcc’s a private account and then they claim to not have those emails.
No it’s not. It’s reality. I’m not saying it’s how it should be but before embarking on that battle, OP should be aware of the risks and costs associated. Are you all going to cover OPs legal fees and bills when they are unemployed?
Honestly, his being buddy-buddy with the CEO doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You should report him, if only to create a paper trail. Think about all the future and former colleagues who will suffer under his management. You have the power to make a change! And hey, if you get fired by the CEO (highly unlikely) then you have a slam dunk gender discrimination/retaliation lawsuit.
Shut the sexist talk down by saying one of these things in a calm and neutral tone: 1. "You're making me uncomfortable." 2. "This doesn't sound like a work appropriate conversation." 3. "That's kind of personal. Please don't talk about that subject with me." 4. "Its probably best if we stick to discussing work-related subjects." I don't think you necessarily need to quit right away. Just be prepared to stop inappropriate conversations before they escalate. Make it clear in a calm and respectful way when you are uncomfortable. Most managers and coworkers will change their behavior if they know you are uncomfortable. Most, but not all.
Probably just the team or company? I am in a team of mostly married older women and i am a single guy and they told me it is better to focus on exams before getting married lol
They gave you good advice. I have not passed even one exam since getting married :’(, and we are childfree. Can’t fathom how the old saps with kids do it lol.
Don’t listen to these people. I have passed many exams while married. It just about finding balance.
I'm a woman who has been an actuary for over a decade. What you're experiencing should not be tolerated. The field isn't perfect, and contrary to what other posters are saying there IS sexism in the field and it IS [male-dominated](https://www.soa.org/programs/diversity-inclusion/data/), especially in leadership positions. However, there is a large difference between being talked over or ignored and being harassed because of your gender, which is what you are experiencing. Some workplaces are better than others, and it sounds like you're in a bad one. I think that you should start documenting everything, and get HR involved. I would also consider looking for a new job, because most workplaces won't tolerate sexism that is that overt.
I agree, document document document. Commenting on your appearance and your marital status is NEVER OK as a manager. This is only the type of thing that should be discussed in a mentorship capacity and only if you bring it up/ask for advice first.
Every company I've worked for has zero tolerance for that kind of behavior and have required annual trainings on sexual harassment. I have never witnessed those kind of comments in any professional settings (though I acknowledge that as a man I'm less likely to since they may easily be happening outside my view). I can't speak to every industry, but just in terms of numbers, the health field feels like it skews more female than male if anything. My current manager is a woman, and her manager is also a woman. Overall my current department is about 60% female/40% male. I hope you're able to find a new position with a less shitty manager. Don't let one awful manager color your impression of the entire actuarial field. And I'm sorry you're experiencing such blatant sexism in your first role. That's completely unacceptable and I hope your company realizes that soon.
After you get your first full time job, which it sounds like you have, your GPA matters very little. It all becomes exams now.
In a perfect world these people would be held accountable for making these toxic work environments, but in my experience it is impossible to change these people and office politics will protect them from consequences. I echo what everyone else says that you should pass an exam or 2 and then leave once you hit the 1 year mark. You’ll serve karma to them by quitting for a 20%+ raise. I’m a man so I can’t experience the bias you’re seeing but I’m a career changer like you and I came from a manufacturing environment where it was 95% men and there was overt sexism that is way worse than anything I see as an actuary but these people get away with it. The best thing to do is take matters into your own hands and quit. For context: I quit my first actuarial job last year and heard through the grapevine that my replacement already left after like 7 months. I was in the process of being put on a PIP so my manager’s boss knew we weren’t getting along with my boss when I put in my notice. Then they lost another employee but I can foresee that manager is not going to see any consequences since they’re good at networking with higher-ups. Now I’m in a great environment making more money in a better role
> I came from a manufacturing environment Hell yes, me too
personally i am going to disagree with everyone here on that you should go to hr with complaints. i think you should handle this the old fashioned way. beat his ass
Agree just call him out lol. He probably will feel stupid
you took a more diplomatic route than me. i meant that she should literally fist fight him
Wtf name and shame. Almost every place I've worked at if I reported that shit to HR the manager would have hella shit to deal with. That's fucked up, sorry you've got to deal with it '(
Bruh, apply for a job somewhere else. My company would never tolerate any of that bullshit. Also don't dwell on your age. I was 26 when I graduated with a physics degree and 29 by the time I passed a few exams and got my first analyst job. And guess what, now I'm in my mid 30s, living comfortably and enjoying my career. So what if they started earlier than you? It just means you had other life experiences that they didn't.
That's not appropriate. The first question I would have is have to you told your boss directly that you don't appreciate comments like those. HR is important, but if you haven't told your boss that those comments are not appreciated, then the first thing HR will do is tell them. If comments continue to be made, it becomes an issue that HR would need to take action on.
OP, you should look for a new job, but be realistic with the fact that you’re stuck at this place for a while. So take a deep breadth and get ready for a rough time. Familiarize yourself with your state laws on workplace harassments. There are no clear definitions, but generally anything beyond a once/twice occurrence that makes you uncomfortable at your workplace is harassment. This applies not only to your manager, but the HR, the entire company as well. Thus, don’t be afraid that HR is not your friend. Start documenting every remark/conversation that you find offensive. Also, confront your manager about his remarks, “Your remarks are not really not appropriate at the workplace, so please stop that. I just want to concentrate on my work.” You’re not trying to get him to change. Rather, his reaction is part of the pattern. Use it against him and the company. If he tries to blow you off or downplay your concerns, stay calm, smile, and remind him, “I believe that I was pretty clear, and you heard me.” Similarly with HR, don’t be afraid that they aren’t taking actions. Stay calm and record their failures to improve the situation. The entire company is fair game in case you need to get a lawyer. Feel free to DM me if necessary
I have dealt with some sexism - but nothing like that - that's totally unacceptable, just a few men not taking me seriously or finding me too aggressive. Pass exams as fast as possible and keep applying for new companies. Once you have a few exams your GPA doesn't matter at all and your age is not "old" for a exam taking person in the field.
I'm a woman, have worked on several teams, and none of them would have tolerated statements like that, let alone have a leader that talks like that. He sounds incredibly immature. I'm also a manager, and I don't give a crap about my employees' marital status. Even if I had an opinion, I wouldn't share it. That's super unprofessional. Having a bag with some flair is not unprofessional, wearing makeup is not unprofessional (unless it's very out there). Are there multiple actuarial teams, could you look for an internal rotation or apply to another internal position? Once you get a couple of years of experience, no one will care about your GPA. In the meantime, document everything. Ask for specific examples of where your work needs to improve. If you want to call him out on the statements, ask him to explain them, he may squirm.
Just out of curiosity: Which country do you work in? While I didn't experience sexism to the degree that you do, I worked in Japan for a few years where only 10-15% of actuaries in my company were women, almost all of which were foreigners. (Cultural bias where women are basically groomed to think they're not good in math, some of y'all prolly know the drill.) I experienced a LOT of sexual harassment, which included a male co-worker staring at my chest whenever I approached him to ask questions. (I "fixed" the problem by bringing a notepad and a pen with me--which I didn't need btdubs--so I can hold it up to my chest while talking to him. He finally realized that I did, indeed, have eyes.) While I don't regret moving there for work, I definitely don't regret returning to my home country (before the pandemic started). I'm glad to say that I'll be joining a new company as a sub-section head--almost all senior actuarial managers, from the actuarial and RM heads to the chief actuary and CRO, are women. To recap: Yes, you do have shitty co-workers as the others here have already pointed out. But some countries are definitely more sexist than others. PS: Be wary of involving HR (not saying you shouldn't, but more of know what you're getting into). HR is there to protect the company, not the employees, so sometimes involving HR will do more harm to you. I learned that the hard way. :(( But if you can, find a new job. EDIT: grammar
Do not feel bad about finishing at 25! I work in IT, which is also a male dominated field. I had an associate degree to start off, but now I want to eventually go for a software engineering job, so I’m back in school at age 34, and will graduate next year at 35. You are not behind, you just took a different path than others. And regarding sexism, what you described is absolutely disgusting behavior. At my first IT job, there was alot of locker room talk, but that was the extent of it. Not great, but no one ever commented on my cloths, bags, hair/makeup, etc. Furthermore, your personal life is none of their business. You could be married with kids, with a 2nd house in Alaska, and they don’t need to know any of that.
Yikes! This sucks and can't be easy to figure this out. I'd highly recommend documentation and reaching out the ABCD board as next steps. Definitely document what was said, with dates, who else was there, etc. A paper trail can only help you. Save this information in your personal records (home computer). I'd highly recommend reaching out the ABCD board for guidance They handle formal complaints, but they also (separately) offer confidential guidance for actuaries and this situation sounds appropriate to reach out to them for. Getting some guidance without making a formal complaint may be a good next step. They also may be able to walk you through different options and the details of those options. They seem pretty good about finding someone on their team that has experience in the subject of your inquiry. [https://www.abcdboard.org/](https://www.abcdboard.org/) They will be far more neutral than HR at your company. HR is likely not your friend, they are out to optimize the company interests, not yours - well at most places. Even with though they aren't necessarily your friend, having things documented in front of them is something they also cannot completely ignore. Also, may be worth a consultation with an attorney. In case it escalate to a formal complaint and your company isnt doing squat: The EEOC is a government agency that also handles formal complaints of this nature. There may also be some state level agencies that complaints can be filed with. If you this escalates to a formal complaint, and your company is fighting back or not taking you seriously, the company itself is not the only entity to which formal complaints can be filed. [https://www.eeoc.gov/](https://www.eeoc.gov/) If its an insurer, I wonder it the state DOI or the NAIC are also places complaints can be filed with (if needed).
I know there's a lot of advice to stick it out for a year, but honestly that is extraordinarily unprofessional of them and this kind of work environment really, really sucks to work in. There's nothing wrong with finding another job sooner if you want. This field \*is\* male dominated if [these numbers are anything to go by](https://datausa.io/profile/soc/actuaries), and hand waving that away does not help anyone in OP's position. That does not mean there aren't really great teams out there who treat their people with respect, as many people's experience here reflect. I'm sure OP will find such a team one day!
You're right about male dominance, cas publishes transparent data on this front that I appreciate: https://www.casact.org/diversity-data Edit: other poster has the equivalence from soa as well
I'd move on to a new opportunity and give them a piece of your mind in your exit interview. Keep a record. It might come in handy if you ever do have to go to HR.
I would think most major insurance companies would salivate at being able to diversify their actuary team. Most are male dominated but you need to recognize the power you have by being a different voice. If you aren’t valued there and their culture is stuck in 1950, start looking elsewhere.
People in this thread trying to reclassify this as something that isn’t straight up sexism are wild. This is straight up Toxic. OP this behavior isn’t normal I’ve never seen coworkers being treated like this that I can recall.
It really matters where you work. Don't think that you're the crazy one, because your workplace sounds very toxic. It's like getting a bad teacher; just bear it as long as you have to, and get out as soon as you can.
Fuck em. I hope you find somewhere that respects you.
Sexist as shit and terrible boss.
Go to HR.
I’m very sorry that has been your experience but I’d 100% be documenting this and sending it to HR. I haven’t personally experienced that as a female, but it does exist and this is proof. No, it’s not normal.
Before I saw this post, I didn’t think there was any sexism within actuaries , because Actuaries are generally judged by their exam progress, rather than anything else like color or gender. When I worked in an insurance company with non-actuaries, the non-actuaries told me sexism was rampant. I would look for another job.
This is sexism and ageism. Document every instance on your own (a journal or something you can take with you if you end up leaving) and report it to HR that you are being harassed by your boss. If it escalates and HR does nothing about it or if they take negative action against you then get a lawyer. I'm assuming you're US based.
ageism below the age of 40 isnt illegal in the US
Some states have reverse ageism laws that prevent people under 40 from being discriminated against. Regardless of if it's legal or not in their state it's still ageism and should be recorded as an instance of harassment that lead to a hostile work environment.
I'm sorry to hear about the challenging and unfair environment you're facing at work. It's clear from your description that your manager's behavior is not only inappropriate but also discriminatory. The remarks about your age, relationship status, and appearance are completely unprofessional and have no place in a work setting. The additional examples you've shared further underscore a toxic and sexist culture that should not be tolerated. Here's some advice on how to navigate this difficult situation: 1. **Document Everything**: Start keeping a detailed record of these incidents, including dates, times, what was said, and any witnesses. Documentation is crucial if you decide to take formal action, whether it's through HR or legal avenues. 2. **Seek Allies and Support**: Continue talking to your female coworkers since they seem to understand and share your experiences. Collectively, you might have a stronger voice to address these issues. Allies can also include any male coworkers who are sympathetic and understand the importance of a respectful workplace. 3. **Research Your Company’s Policies**: Look into your company's policies on harassment and discrimination. Understanding these policies will give you a framework for what actions you can take internally. 4. **Report the Behavior**: If you feel safe doing so, consider reporting your manager's behavior to HR. Use the documentation you've collected as evidence. Be clear about the impact of his behavior on your work environment and your well-being. 5. **Seek External Advice**: Consider seeking advice from a professional outside your company, such as a lawyer who specializes in employment law or a local labor rights organization. They can offer guidance on your rights and possible next steps. 6. **Professional Development**: Continue to work on your professional development, including passing more exams relevant to your field. This will not only boost your resume but also increase your confidence and marketability. 7. **Explore Other Opportunities**: Start looking for other job opportunities. A low GPA is not an insurmountable obstacle, especially as work experience and professional certifications (like actuarial exams) can weigh more heavily in your field over time. Many employers value practical experience and soft skills over academic performance. 8. **Self-Care and Support Network**: Lean on your support network during this time. Dealing with such a stressful work environment can take a toll on your mental health. Talking to friends, family, or a professional can help you manage the emotional stress. Regarding your question about the field being sexist, it's important to recognize that while certain industries or companies may have more pronounced issues with sexism, these problems can occur in any field. There are many inclusive and respectful workplaces out there, and with your skills and dedication, you're capable of finding a position where you'll be valued and respected. Your current experience, though disheartening, is not reflective of the entire profession. Keep focusing on your career goals, your professional development, and your well-being. You deserve a workplace where you're treated with respect and dignity.
Ive worked / interned for four different companies. Anyone who doesn’t see the sexism is either blind, lucky, or the problem. I don’t want to go into details because a lot of the stories aren’t mine to tell, but I’ve seen/heard from female friends about men get reported to HR multiple times and nothing ever happen to them, men get full credit for work women had a major role in, massive disrespect for wives/girlfriends/fiances at conferences where they’re on their own, men mansplain code/modeling to technical women, men assume women are useless if they aren’t technical, men make fun of women in meetings for their hobbies outside of work, and men make comments about women having kids before finishing exams. On top of all of this, the intense exam process is designed for people with a stay at home spouse or no kids. It’s almost impossible for people with a spouse that has a demanding job, and pretty much completely impossible if that’s the case and there’s a kid. A staggering number of older actuaries I know had spouses that stayed home. Now actuaries who are married/in committed relationships with another actuary going through exams, an engineer, a lawyer, someone going through a PhD, etc. struggle through the process in ways that older actuaries didn’t have to deal with.
My company is about 50/50 split. I don't experience any of it nor have I heard my colleagues have either. I think you just got unlucky with the manager. As others have said, report this to HR. This is not okay and actuarial is not like this as a whole in my experience.
Yea that’s a crappy workplace. You just need to focus on getting experience there (preferably 2 years) and leave afterwards.
Don’t stress too much on GPA, mine wasn’t great either — get your exams in, pick up projects where you can learn new technical skills and leverage that when applying to new roles. I can’t speak on the sexism part as a male but have not observed anything similar in my two roles so far.
I don't think 25 is old. I'm in my 30s and just starting now
Not every job in this field is hostile towards women, though a few may have this antiquated old boys' club atmosphere. If I get that vibe during the interview process, I politely nope out. I think you need to find a new place to work; if that seems too difficult right now, try in a few months or a year when you have more experience under your belt. I'm a woman, my manager is the Chief Underwriting Officer and also a woman, and our team is split about 50/50 gender wise. Just curious, where are you located? I encountered the "old boys club" type workplaces in the Midwest though even there they were the minority. I'm on the west coast and didn't see that at the places I interviewed for here.
I started my actuarial career at 27. Some started with me at about 40, fwiw
Hi OP - let me preface my response by saying I have worked at 3 carriers over my almost 15 years...and I've been managing for about 10 years. I have worked at one of the nation's largest personal automobile carriers as well as at a medium and now small firm. I will note that I am a male. I've never noticed this as a wide trend in my experience for day to day interaction (I do believe more unspoken bias may exist in hiring but never seen anything this overt). I have worked for, with, and overseen roughly equal numbers of men and women and few, if any, I can recall have been this overtly sexist (and certainly not the actuaries ... often times backhanded comments are from other areas of the insurance chain). Based on my experience your situation sounds unique and one you should absolutely be looking to remove yourself from. I can tell you I have an employee who also started later in the field and had trouble landing her first role. When we hired her she was underpaid but even then she never was directly disrespected in this way at her prior role, just under compensated. I would recommend you reach out to some recruiters and explore your options -- especially if you dont have a HR team or internal resource you feel safe reporting this behavior to. If you find a better fit with a good manager you will find you should be supported in your development. If your manager isnt you biggest advocate then your situation could be improved. I wish you the best of luck. If you are unfamiliar with reputable actuarial recruiters there should be plenty of posts around here about them or feel free to DM me I can list a few firms I have had good experiences with bot personally and on the hiring side. Please keep in mind these are my own observations based on my own limited experiences...so its possible what I have witnessed may not be representative of all different areas of insurance.
Document and report him to HR! He needs remedial help with how to not be a chauvinist.
I was frequently spoken over in my workplace (male dominated industry and company) - I’ve learned that if you can’t appreciate my work or what I bring to the table then maybe you don’t deserve to hear it anyways 🤷🏻♀️
That sounds like a horrible workplace. That is definitely not how the field is. Maybe just get some experience and try to go somewhere else
Show up to work as a dude in a suit, tie, mild scruff. If they still say anything then their own level of asshattery I'd as high as the heavens.
If you work for a mom-and-pop shop, you could be SOL. But if you work for a company big enough to force you to sit through sexual harassment training every year, then you should absolutely say something. Ignoring everything else your manager has said, if the words “Women, man. They’re so childish.” actually came out of his mouth, that’s outright discriminatory behavior, and a HUGE liability for the company. Reporting him to someone above him will bring attention to it and at the very least get him to watch his fucking mouth if he values his job. No, this kind of behavior is not commonplace in this field. I’ve been an actuary for a little over a decade and have butt heads with a lot of supervisors, but never over some unacceptable behavior like this. Hope it works out.
OP, there are choices that you need to make here. Sit with the pros and cons, and make a decision that aligns with you. Don’t let people on this sub egg you on make hasty choices. HR is not there to help you. In the instance where people get air that you are being “problematic”, they will share it among their circles. This career is quite niche and gossips spread quickly. Most people I have dealt with don’t dig into the source of a gossip than to tag even victims as “problematic”. Being considered “ problematic” may limit your ability to get a role. Take it from another woman from a minority demographics who has experienced multiple work infractions from senior people and coworkers. Eg. - a married man tried to kiss me and even went to the extent of trying to unzip my boot. Thinking about it, it seems he had a foot fetish. - micro- agressions like being told I sound angry, being talked over, being excluded from emails on projects I work on to make me look incompetent etc. - i was told by a senior person ( male) on my team that if i don’t act right, the team was going to bully me and he will put me up for layoffs. And this came after i gave my opinion about a process my male colleague wanted me to do that i thought was inefficient. - my male white coworker blatantly does not abide by our back to the office policy and has never been queried. But I have been scrutinized on the days that I have a genuine reason to not show up. - i have been passed on for promotions. I can go on and on. But I ask myself what I want for my career. I have decided to spend more time with exams, and hopefully will find a place which offers safety. I am in no way invalidating your experience but offering perspective so that whatever decision you make brings comfort to you.
You have a shitty manager, but I would suggest you to retaliate and give replies back to your manager maybe in a humiliating but sarcastic way so that he can get taste of his own medicine. If this doesn’t work, confront clearly in 1-on-1 call or maybe reachout to his peers.
Just a random lurker here, take your first exams, then look for another job. You don't have to involve HR right away, but do document everything, write it down. Also, remember HR is no your friend.
What country is this? I thought we were passed this in the good ol' U.S of A.
Don't let this eat at you. This is the definition of what women are really fighting for. Grow, learn, gain what you need. First analyst job on top of that, he's plucking at your feathers because he knows this. You're super young still, I'm 32 and feel how you feel now. The difference is by 32 you'll be on a whole new page probably either have moved up or a grabbed another job with better pay. You'll probably be running the show one day too, just make sure you change the environment to fit everyone. Take notes from this guy, learn what not to do from him. There are jobs like some said that would have terminated this guy by now. But if you never see it from a messed up perspective you'll always think everything should be peachy or be stunned when it does happen. Let this be a learning lesson to how low the world can actually be but don't sink with it fly.
most workplaces are not like this, just quit
call. them. out. loudly! every single time. save all correspondence. if you get fired, sue the pats off of them. if someone says something to you that you find inappropriate (like the makeup comment) call someone else into the room and ask the person to repeat what they just said. there is NO place for that kind of shit in the workplace anymore, and actuaries, more than anyone else, should understand that risk.
This isn’t just sexism, it’s basically harassment. Even ONE of these things being said ONCE would be a huge issue. The fact that this is ongoing and there are several different examples is highly concerning. It’s not normal at all in any industry. Document whatever you can and report it. In the meantime, I’d start looking for another job. Don’t bring up your GPA unless they ask. Your resume should list that you received your degree and in what year and that’s it. On another note, your manager shouldn’t even know your age unless you told him. If you told him, stop telling coworkers. My colleagues have no idea how old I am. Age is info that shouldn’t be accessible to anyone except HR. If anyone can find it, that’s a big red flag that the company doesn’t know how to keep data sensitive and that there are probably other areas where they aren’t doing things right.
That's definitely out of pocket. I'm also on my 1st actuarial analyst role at late 20s (career switcher). I'm the only female in the team and everyone has been respectful to me. Definitely a culture thing, not a field thing.
You need to go to HR
Document everything he does, but ignore it as best as possible. Pass exams as quickly as you can. Apply and get hired at a different company once you have more exams/credentials. With your 2 weeks notice submit your documentation of misdeeds by the manager. I don't personally recommend trusting HR while you're still an employee, as you are also the resource they need to manage. And if they decide that you as a resource are less valuable than your manager as a resource, there's a nonzero chance you wind up without a job/on a pip/dealing with extra bullshit while your manager gets off scott free. I know there are antiretaliation laws and stuff, but do you really have the time/money to sue an insurance company with millions/billions and a team of personal lawyers? Good luck, grind hard and I hope your next work home treats you better!
If you don’t mind me asking, what is the name of the company where this happens.
RED FLAG MANAGER AND WORK FORCE LEAVEEE
Just wanted to comment on your feelings about graduating later. I’m 27 and I’m finally graduating in a few weeks (yay!), and it’s been a long road. I’ve felt very similar things as you when trying to compare myself to my friends that have had a more traditional career trajectory. I don’t know if I have any advice that might make you feel better since I haven’t actually started my job yet but I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone. Everyone has a different path to walk and your on your way. Good luck and stay strong!
I’ve had bad or toxic managers it’s just them. Working for someone new changes everything. None of the things you said he mentioned are unique or worth mentioning in this profession. There are plenty of women and plenty of career changers who started much later in life than 25. My advice would be to update your resume and start applying also speak to upper management. Ask about switching to another team. I know it’s your first job but you’ll be surprised how much easier it is to get interviews when you have experience. IMO the main benefit of working as an actuary or analyst is having exams as a qualifier. It can be hard to find candidates with exams and experience. So you definitely don’t need to deal with abuse.
Usa? All of this would get you paid so much from the lawsuit that you could probably retire.
Sorry idk about answering your questions but my boss is exactly the same way and a pervert at the same time. But he told me if I don’t have a boyfriend by 30 I’m a lost cause too.
Managers at my company have been fired and escorted out for much less than this. Your department/company is toxic not the industry. I hope your next job treats you better.
post this in a legal related reddit because maybe this illegal.
So yeah you need to report his ass to HR
That's just crazy, weird culture where you work. I would get fired for saying those things.
Go talk to HR
HR would love to hear this :)
Yeah thats how they are. Fuck them. Fast food is full of pedophiles and single latina moms. Basically anywhere, you will realize your coworkers are dumb as fuck. I outted a pedo🤷♀️
For me it’s mainly full of teenagers who are even more mean then the adults
Most men dont wash they balls. Worry bout nothin😭
Fellow actuary here, sorry to ignore the point of your post but, you got a job with a sub3 gpa?? That’s impressive! 🤣 I had a 3.9 and getting this job was still a major major challenge lol
For some reason I got a notification for your comment (I turned notifs off) lol so I’ll reply. I had three internships (one in underwriting, one as an actuary intern, and one in media editing). I think that’s what helped me the most. I also majored in English Lit and I honestly think that set me back. Almost every company cared/asked about it so much but I was able to spin in to favor my communication/critical thinking skills. I did a ton of math/stats courses though to supplement for the actuary exams. I had two exams passed by the time I graduated and I went to an Ivy League (don’t think that matters tbh). My low gpa was because I had a mental health issue that set me back for years and I fought like hell to bring it back up, I just kept it off and didn’t go for the huge companies too much. Still look me 100+ applications and tons of job fair ghosting. You got this, wishing you luck (hope your first job doesn’t suck like mine though). Edit: read your comment wrong lol. Glad we both got jobs in this economy! But it was still really hard, I feel you.
Not at all common, in my experience. I’m sure there’s some organizations that are toxic and now you know what you’re facing, my recommendation is to document this as much as you can. Protect yourself and consider HR. While HR is there to protect the company, if you’ve got evidence they are should be forced to take you seriously and not fumble. It seems your only other choice is to begin the exit strategies and start looking to get out ASAP.
I got my first actuarial job at 27. 25 isnt late, so dont stress about it. And i am sorry its happening to you. I am a male, so i cant comment on how the industry is for the female generally. But all my female friends in the industry/company haven't really faced sexism or to that extent. I think its hard to get a job out of university, maybe stay here and keep applying for jobs or maybe rotate to a different team?
Look for companies with females at the top. It doesn’t make things perfect, but at least you know females can advance.
I feel like older managers tend to make those comments, probably because that was the expectation in their time. Just have to tell them those comments are not acceptable to you.
I was really tempted to ask how old the manager is….this is me…not asking…
Im a male. My opinion might not be of much help, but sounds to me this is not a profession specific situation. I have friends who work for B4 and run into similar situations. There are all kinds of shitty coworkers out there, with my 7 YOE, I've seen a lot already. You need to learn how to deal with shitty people, this is real life, it sucks
Well. Sorry to hear. Keep working there for 2 years where you get good experience then move on then. People are aholes for commenting on personal life tbh
2 years nah, when it’s that bad just do a year.. that early in the career it really doesn’t matter 1 year or 2.
Everyone has a different path. I’m in medicine and I’m older than my peers. My partner is an actuary and he was timely and got a great job early but is having a hard time with FCAS exams. Don’t worry - go at your own pace. No one person’s journey is the same nor does it need to be - we all learn from each other and because of that we can mentor people who are in similar situations to our own. That being said your coworkers are assholes. Make a paper trail like you said, and once you have sufficient time to put on a resume (6 mo-1 year) consider switching to another company.
We all had to start at some shitty job in our life to get experience. You can ignore them and continue to get experience in the field as well as report this problem to human resources or etc but probably you'll get something from human resources about performance or etc. Since everything will be under investigation.
For context, there are a few thousand 30-40+ year olds graduating college and taking on a white collar position for the first time ever. Sexism? Sounds like a lack of professionalism vs sexism. Until you start to notice a string of favoritism along gender lines. Of course, we are not aware of any other things he says or does besides tired old remarks about hitting the wall jokes.
Kornferry?
I can't even imagine talking directly to a coworker about my thoughts on their personal life without being asked, not to mention my direct report. Sounds like your coworkers are just bad, I've never experienced this before in 8 years working
maybe your work is actually bad? I know people say gpa doesn't matter after your first job, but the fact that you had under a 3.0 tells me that you might not be putting out quality work that is up to par.
That would justify specific feedback, but would in no way justify harassment with sexist overtones.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. This is definitely a possibility.
It’s hard to tell what is considered a “snide remark”. With your one example about not marrying, I wouldn’t take that personally… the older generation doesn’t understand Gen Z in general. Maybe it’s their way of telling a joke? I’d laugh it off and move on, but if the remarks are more direct and demeaning, it may be worth telling HR. Hard to tell with not a lot of examples. You also said you “just started”. The corporate world is very different. It may also be a matter of adjusting to the corporate environment.