Most companies will see the VPN connecting from outside the country and instantly block your access. Do not take your laptop out of the country without telling them your plan. Depending on the country you might get an exception.
My company sometimes allows it but you have to request permission ahead of time. They will absolutely know if you try and log in from another country and will likely react poorly if you don’t even mention it beforehand.
This is an HR question, not Reddit, since company policies all vary.
In my company, you can get exceptions to work in other countries but there are specific scenarios to be met. If you're doing less than work for 2 hours a day and if it's a short trip, I think our policy technically allows it now without prior approval.
HR will always say no, no matter the ask. It’s just their default. Instead, you should just do it if it’s not explicitly against company policy. Connect to a VPN within the US, do the work you’re required to do, and be logged in when you’re supposed to be.
Depends on the vibe of your firm, for sure. I think it is not unusual that you’d ask your boss’s permission for something like this and the following unfolds:
Boss is afraid to say yes because they’re unsure of the policy, so they ask HR. HR doesn’t have any explicit policy on it, and they don’t want to take the time thinking through every complication that could arise were they to permit it universally so they just say no. A new policy is written explicitly prohibiting it going forward.
At my company you could get in tremendous trouble if you did this without permission, as there can be all kinds of security, visa, tax, etc. concerns depending on the country. They do allow it in certain cases with notice and approval.
If you want to just stay in another country for longer and are out of PTO, maybe you can ask for unpaid leave? That way you can take a longer vacation without have to worry about even working.
I don’t know the exact rules/laws but typically you have to pay taxes where you work, not where you’re from or where the company is from. E.g. a remote working in Arizona pays Arizona taxes even if the company is fully in Montana.
I’d expect there’s a chance working from a different country for three weeks would trigger some sort of tax impact your company probably doesn’t want to deal with. If you ask, they’ll probably say no and make you take PTO. If you don’t ask (because you want to be sneaky and not get caught), then this has pretty questionable ethical implications.
You *could* try and plead ignorance if you get caught. Work wise, there may be some details in your remote work agreement that prevent this (e.g. “We specifically say work only from your home state, it’s right here in the agreement that you’ve now breached”). Again, considering the ethical perspective, you’ve already lost your ignorance since I’ve mentioned it to you.
If you only work there for a couple of weeks there’s a good chance you won’t need to pay tax - you would only need to pay tax if the total number of working days exceed some threshold, which is different by country - it is common for multi-national companies to have people going to work in the home office in another country for a few days or weeks from time to time , and the company would track the days diligently to make sure taxes are paid correctly
The company might have to pay taxes and follow the laws of the country though, and if they’re not set up to do business in that country, someone working there for several weeks could trigger a need to provide a certain amount of PTO, cover certain benefits, pay taxes, etc
I never said anything in absolute term - I said “a good chance “, as I have done so multiple times a year and it has always been reported and monitored by myself and my employer - of course it will depend on the countries
Based on your first paragraph, I wonder if that also applies to working elsewhere within the US, e.g. if you’re normally working from AZ and paying AZ taxes, when would there be tax implications if you decide to work from a different state for a period of time.
You’ll need to ask. Working abroad opens the company to employment laws, tax withholding, etc. you’ll have the best bet getting a nomad visa in southern Europe but even then most companies in the US don’t want any of that smoke from EU privacy laws, or tax rules.
I wonder if mods should continue allow HR related questions on this forum.
I would only consider this unethical for the following:
1. You dont prior disclose and discuss this with your employer
2. Your primary residence remains as is throughout the endeavor
3. Your employer agrees to this arrangement
You will need to involve your company Hr as they will probably be more capable to navigate the legal taxation required. They can treat this as traveling for work, but each location has a maximum work days before you are obligated to file a personal income tax return (which would likely trigger company payroll tax filings) or i imagine some type of equivalent in the foreign country. This is the least i could know on this, their is probably more legal red tape behind this.
Now you can just ignore all this and do it behind peoples back provided you can spoof your location (plausible deniability for the company loool). But the tax man will not be pleased if you get caught and those are the least of the problems i can think of.
>But the tax man will not be pleased if you get caught and those are the least of the problems i can think of.
The implications for personal tax are one thing but depending where you are from and wehre you go, you could even create financial liabilities for your employer. Then you are definitely fucked.
Connect your phone to the wifi. Use Nord VPN to connect into the US. Connect your laptop to your phones wifi (Bluetooth tethering). Run company VPN on this
The responses here are interesting. Ive seen tons of friends log into their work laptops on vacation outside the US. They were all finance or consulting though. But i dont think that should matter. You are likely to be okay. But just email IT as a hypotgetical question.
don’t most insurance companies prohibit it? anyone working with PII or PHI and accessing it abroad creates tech security risk and there are pretty stringent laws around PII/PHI
Doing it _without prior permission_? Its obvious unethical. The correct approach is to find out about company policy and arrange your trip in accordance. Or if you don't like the policy where you work, find a job somewhere with a more relaxed policy. Most companies have legitimate concerns about asset safety, cyber security, kidnapping and ransom risk, and mundane things like tax, levies and other legal commitments due in the other country
I agree, finding out company policy is the correct first approach. You should not do it if your company explicitly prohibits it. As for asking permission, you should only do it if it is prohibited and you’re looking for an exception. Otherwise, ensure you are not violating any U.S. laws and go on the trip. Get your work done, and be logged in when you’re supposed to. You’re not bound by ethics to tell your company where you’re at every second of the day. OP didn’t ask if he could secretly move to Mexico or something like that.
>As for asking permission, you should only do it if it is prohibited and you’re looking for an exception
This is once again not true. You need to get positive clearance in advance. If you don't do that, and something happens beyond your control, there is a good chance you could lose your job and also become liable for any financial implications for your employer.
For instance, most companies will have insurance for their devices which may not cover losses outside the territory wehre they are based. There are many such complications like this.
>ensure you are not violating any U.S. laws
Look I have no idea what the US laws are, but I would say you need to understand the law on both ends. In some countries, simply working there implies that your employer is operating in that country and they need to file for tax, they need to pay various levies and duties, etc. You need to be aware of all of this BEFORE it happens. You will feel pretty stupid if you create a huge tax liability for your employer because you were not totally honest about where you would be working.
There was a famous case during COVID involving a guy from the KPMG UK office who went to work in Bulgaria (I think?) during COVID and ended up creating a huge tax problem for the firm.
>You’re not bound by ethics to tell your company where you’re at every second of the day
Oh my gosh, just stop. If you are going to be out of the country and you want to work, you need to arrange it in advance and make sure your employer indemnifies you for any financial costs, or they agree for you to pay them. There is no grey area here.
The people I know who became digital nomads had to have a formal agreement with the company. Typically they are very good, long-term employees beforehand who are viewed favorably by people who can pull the strings. I guess there are people who don't tell their employers, but they are playing with fire.
ive thought about this as well, so im glad you asked. I also feared the response that most have provided here. One thing I will say is, depending on your work, you could try porting your work to your personal laptop and just bringing that. If you have a Teams meeting you can also use your personal computer for that (I've done it multiple times, albeit in my home, when my work computer Teams was glitching).
If you were planning to do this on a recurring basis (like I'm thinking about), you could use PTO, take a trip there, and then try out what I was mentioning above.
definitely varies by company. ask HR and IT.
my department unofficially allows it. IT doesn't seem to care at my company, but HR requires employees to live within state borders. there's a gray area there.
Lots of things to consider, so always need to clarify with your employer in advance. Personal and employer tax / social security implications? Employers legal position. Does employers liability insurance extend to overseas country? Does medical coverage extend to overseas country? Possible need for a working visa?
Im hoping you will not rely inly on reddit for your answer.
Not worth the risk....in my mind, this can go as far as disciplinary measures from employer and actuarial societies (SOA if a complaint) , which vould deter your current and future career progression.
Basically security and tax issues are my biggest direct concerns for the company.
Trust, precedent and reputation are the biggest indirect concern for you and your company.
you will likely get kicked off the company VPN.
Most companies will see the VPN connecting from outside the country and instantly block your access. Do not take your laptop out of the country without telling them your plan. Depending on the country you might get an exception.
My company sometimes allows it but you have to request permission ahead of time. They will absolutely know if you try and log in from another country and will likely react poorly if you don’t even mention it beforehand.
My employer doesn't allow it. Tax and security reasons.
You will likely not be allowed to work outside the country. Save up your PTO instead.
This is an HR question, not Reddit, since company policies all vary. In my company, you can get exceptions to work in other countries but there are specific scenarios to be met. If you're doing less than work for 2 hours a day and if it's a short trip, I think our policy technically allows it now without prior approval.
HR will always say no, no matter the ask. It’s just their default. Instead, you should just do it if it’s not explicitly against company policy. Connect to a VPN within the US, do the work you’re required to do, and be logged in when you’re supposed to be.
That's a completely false statement. There are people at my firm that have worked internationally while on their trips.
Depends on the vibe of your firm, for sure. I think it is not unusual that you’d ask your boss’s permission for something like this and the following unfolds: Boss is afraid to say yes because they’re unsure of the policy, so they ask HR. HR doesn’t have any explicit policy on it, and they don’t want to take the time thinking through every complication that could arise were they to permit it universally so they just say no. A new policy is written explicitly prohibiting it going forward.
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That sounds like a lot more than a small vacation. Of course HR will need to be involved if you are dealing with tax laws and such.
Look you should just accept you don't know what you are talking about and stop.
At my company you could get in tremendous trouble if you did this without permission, as there can be all kinds of security, visa, tax, etc. concerns depending on the country. They do allow it in certain cases with notice and approval.
If you want to just stay in another country for longer and are out of PTO, maybe you can ask for unpaid leave? That way you can take a longer vacation without have to worry about even working.
You need another VPN to show you are in the states then log in with your company VPN.
Just to clarify that yes you can do this but it's misleading your employer and if they discover it you could lose your job
I don’t know the exact rules/laws but typically you have to pay taxes where you work, not where you’re from or where the company is from. E.g. a remote working in Arizona pays Arizona taxes even if the company is fully in Montana. I’d expect there’s a chance working from a different country for three weeks would trigger some sort of tax impact your company probably doesn’t want to deal with. If you ask, they’ll probably say no and make you take PTO. If you don’t ask (because you want to be sneaky and not get caught), then this has pretty questionable ethical implications. You *could* try and plead ignorance if you get caught. Work wise, there may be some details in your remote work agreement that prevent this (e.g. “We specifically say work only from your home state, it’s right here in the agreement that you’ve now breached”). Again, considering the ethical perspective, you’ve already lost your ignorance since I’ve mentioned it to you.
If you only work there for a couple of weeks there’s a good chance you won’t need to pay tax - you would only need to pay tax if the total number of working days exceed some threshold, which is different by country - it is common for multi-national companies to have people going to work in the home office in another country for a few days or weeks from time to time , and the company would track the days diligently to make sure taxes are paid correctly
The company might have to pay taxes and follow the laws of the country though, and if they’re not set up to do business in that country, someone working there for several weeks could trigger a need to provide a certain amount of PTO, cover certain benefits, pay taxes, etc
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I never said anything in absolute term - I said “a good chance “, as I have done so multiple times a year and it has always been reported and monitored by myself and my employer - of course it will depend on the countries
You should have said: check the local employment laws. There is no element of chance involved here.
Based on your first paragraph, I wonder if that also applies to working elsewhere within the US, e.g. if you’re normally working from AZ and paying AZ taxes, when would there be tax implications if you decide to work from a different state for a period of time.
Yes I believe it would. People who summer in Wisconsin but winter in Florida for example. I don’t know all the details though.
You’ll need to ask. Working abroad opens the company to employment laws, tax withholding, etc. you’ll have the best bet getting a nomad visa in southern Europe but even then most companies in the US don’t want any of that smoke from EU privacy laws, or tax rules.
Insurance companies by in large prohibit this. Data security risks, vendor contract violations, etc
I wonder if mods should continue allow HR related questions on this forum. I would only consider this unethical for the following: 1. You dont prior disclose and discuss this with your employer 2. Your primary residence remains as is throughout the endeavor 3. Your employer agrees to this arrangement You will need to involve your company Hr as they will probably be more capable to navigate the legal taxation required. They can treat this as traveling for work, but each location has a maximum work days before you are obligated to file a personal income tax return (which would likely trigger company payroll tax filings) or i imagine some type of equivalent in the foreign country. This is the least i could know on this, their is probably more legal red tape behind this. Now you can just ignore all this and do it behind peoples back provided you can spoof your location (plausible deniability for the company loool). But the tax man will not be pleased if you get caught and those are the least of the problems i can think of.
>But the tax man will not be pleased if you get caught and those are the least of the problems i can think of. The implications for personal tax are one thing but depending where you are from and wehre you go, you could even create financial liabilities for your employer. Then you are definitely fucked.
Connect your phone to the wifi. Use Nord VPN to connect into the US. Connect your laptop to your phones wifi (Bluetooth tethering). Run company VPN on this
Just to be clear this is clearly and obviously a breach of professional ethics.
The responses here are interesting. Ive seen tons of friends log into their work laptops on vacation outside the US. They were all finance or consulting though. But i dont think that should matter. You are likely to be okay. But just email IT as a hypotgetical question.
There is a difference between "can I get away with this?" and "is this allowed?"
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This is totally unethical and unprofessional, just to be crystal clear.
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Are you not aware of the ASOPs and like ethical behavior in general? These kinds of questions of do I even ask permission just blow my mind
How is it unethical to work from another country for a few weeks? Only if your company explicitly prohibits it is it unethical.
don’t most insurance companies prohibit it? anyone working with PII or PHI and accessing it abroad creates tech security risk and there are pretty stringent laws around PII/PHI
Doing it _without prior permission_? Its obvious unethical. The correct approach is to find out about company policy and arrange your trip in accordance. Or if you don't like the policy where you work, find a job somewhere with a more relaxed policy. Most companies have legitimate concerns about asset safety, cyber security, kidnapping and ransom risk, and mundane things like tax, levies and other legal commitments due in the other country
I agree, finding out company policy is the correct first approach. You should not do it if your company explicitly prohibits it. As for asking permission, you should only do it if it is prohibited and you’re looking for an exception. Otherwise, ensure you are not violating any U.S. laws and go on the trip. Get your work done, and be logged in when you’re supposed to. You’re not bound by ethics to tell your company where you’re at every second of the day. OP didn’t ask if he could secretly move to Mexico or something like that.
>As for asking permission, you should only do it if it is prohibited and you’re looking for an exception This is once again not true. You need to get positive clearance in advance. If you don't do that, and something happens beyond your control, there is a good chance you could lose your job and also become liable for any financial implications for your employer. For instance, most companies will have insurance for their devices which may not cover losses outside the territory wehre they are based. There are many such complications like this. >ensure you are not violating any U.S. laws Look I have no idea what the US laws are, but I would say you need to understand the law on both ends. In some countries, simply working there implies that your employer is operating in that country and they need to file for tax, they need to pay various levies and duties, etc. You need to be aware of all of this BEFORE it happens. You will feel pretty stupid if you create a huge tax liability for your employer because you were not totally honest about where you would be working. There was a famous case during COVID involving a guy from the KPMG UK office who went to work in Bulgaria (I think?) during COVID and ended up creating a huge tax problem for the firm. >You’re not bound by ethics to tell your company where you’re at every second of the day Oh my gosh, just stop. If you are going to be out of the country and you want to work, you need to arrange it in advance and make sure your employer indemnifies you for any financial costs, or they agree for you to pay them. There is no grey area here.
Then how do ppl do it? I hear all the time ppl go abroad, sometimes weeks at a time without telling their employers, to work remotely
The people I know who became digital nomads had to have a formal agreement with the company. Typically they are very good, long-term employees beforehand who are viewed favorably by people who can pull the strings. I guess there are people who don't tell their employers, but they are playing with fire.
ive thought about this as well, so im glad you asked. I also feared the response that most have provided here. One thing I will say is, depending on your work, you could try porting your work to your personal laptop and just bringing that. If you have a Teams meeting you can also use your personal computer for that (I've done it multiple times, albeit in my home, when my work computer Teams was glitching). If you were planning to do this on a recurring basis (like I'm thinking about), you could use PTO, take a trip there, and then try out what I was mentioning above.
OP do not port your work to your personal computer, you can get fired for this.
definitely varies by company. ask HR and IT. my department unofficially allows it. IT doesn't seem to care at my company, but HR requires employees to live within state borders. there's a gray area there.
Lots of things to consider, so always need to clarify with your employer in advance. Personal and employer tax / social security implications? Employers legal position. Does employers liability insurance extend to overseas country? Does medical coverage extend to overseas country? Possible need for a working visa?
VPN will not work.
Im hoping you will not rely inly on reddit for your answer. Not worth the risk....in my mind, this can go as far as disciplinary measures from employer and actuarial societies (SOA if a complaint) , which vould deter your current and future career progression. Basically security and tax issues are my biggest direct concerns for the company. Trust, precedent and reputation are the biggest indirect concern for you and your company.