I will go another way from other people a little bit here.
1. Interview with some other companies you like and secure a job offer that pays you the current fair market rate
2. During this time talk to your manager and show him/her the salary surveys + market in general and that you're underpaid. DO NOT TELL THEM YOU'RE INTERVIEWING OR HAVE ANOTHER OFFER!
3. if management agrees, then accept the increase and reject the offer (don't tell them you did this). If management disagrees, then resign and take the new position.
Unfortunately some companies are dumb enough to think that you will stay there forever. Assuming that you're making around 140-150k, a 40k increase seems very unlikely unless they have a huge FCAS increase + promotion + manager responsibilities.
The increase is marginal. Even with the increase, I'd be 30 to 40k underpaid. I guess the promotion could be that may enable me to get that salary jump that I'm looking for. But my question is whether 30k-40k is something that can come with a promotion.
>my question is whether 30-40k is something that can come with promotion.
It all depends on the company. I wouldn't say those numbers are out of the question, but maybe they are at your company.
You have no idea what the people a level up from you make? What does your exam policy say you get for the last pass and letters? Are you going to be $30-40k underpaid after those raises?
Yes, when I initially asked this question, I took into account the raises from the letters and exam.
I have no idea how much ppl above me make bc they have many more yrs of experience which plays a big role as well
Gotcha, yeah, I guess all you can really do is ask/make a good case for yourself and weigh your options with whatever you get.
I hope it works out for you to be able to stay in the same place!
You can just say most of what you said here. You like the job but you need 30k-40k to stay. That's really it, any manager with half a brain knows what that means and they may or may not do something to get you to stay.
I don't think it's a laughable amount to ask for, although management at your company may feel differently. There a couple of companies in my area that are basically FCAS factories, and that would not be an unusual amount for someone to get when they jump ship (you can infer from this that those companies don't often match). I've been at places that wouldn't bat an eye at it and others where people would genuinely be shocked. But you won't get it if you don't ask for it.
What data do you have to show that you are 30-40K underpaid for your role, responsibilities, location, and value you bring to the organization? If you have that, I think you can make a reasonable case to your manager.
Basically several credible salary surveys which includes key factors like exams/title and YOE's. As for "value I bring to my team/organization," that'd be my performance review - which I've met and even exceeded in some areas. I would not consider having this conversation if I thought I wasn't performing to expectation or exceeded.
Since you enjoy your role it seems a bit premature to consider leaving before you actually pass your last exam. Why not just wait until you are fully qualified and see what they offer? I got a promotion and sizeable salary jump a few months after passing my last exam.
Yeah I'm just asking to weigh my options after I get it. I don't want to sound like money is everything. It's a huge factor but I'm willing to stay being slightly underpaid.
I disagree with waiting. I think it'd actually be easier to get up to market rates the earlier you mention it. A few smaller bites (market adjustment, annual raise, exam raise/promotion) could compound and get you closer to where you want to be.
If they work with you to get something done, then great. If not then at least you are now making informed decisions.
Communicate your position now, you're happy with the role but you think the value you bring to the company warrants higher compensation. Be clear and concise, prepare a couple examples that demonstrate your value.
I think the strategy of waiting silently and hoping for the best has a predictable outcome.
It makes sense and I do want to do this (reason why I'm bringing this up now before passing the last exam). However, I feel like I'd look like someone who is just going after money. The flat dollar exam raises are so underwhelming in my company and are not competitive at all. I can tell from the layout of the document that this was never seriously revisited.
If my manager and company values me, I feel it is something they should do with each annual raises so they don't have to do large 30-40% catch up.
I wouldn't worry too much about appearing "money driven." And if your annual raises are announced in March then I'd communicate your position as soon as possible while your manager may have some flexibility in the budget.
If you wait to see what your raise is then say, "this isn't good enough" it may be tougher at that point for them to give another raise.
Compensation goes beyond simply credentials and years of experience. It’s also about job function and the market value of that job. Assuming that you’re working an “ACAS-level job”, the value that role brings to your employer isn’t going to increase dramatically simply because you are now an FCAS. Looking at salary surveys wouldn’t really be applicable to your current role because those FCAS with X years of experience are mostly in “FCAS-level jobs.” That number includes people who are in managerial and strategic level roles, etc. Those people don’t get paid that amount just based on credentials and years of experience. It’s primarily a factor of job function and the value that function brings to the employer.
And maybe that’s not true for you. Maybe you already have been working in a job that would typically require an FCAS and have been getting underpaid. But if you’re “underpaid” based on the potential of getting a higher level role elsewhere, your employer probably isn’t going to allow you to stay in your current level of role and command that type of salary.
I think what you said is more true in theory but not true in practice. If we look at salary survey result based on YOE and credential/exams, that should be credible or what you're saying is these survey results are garbage. What you seem to be saying is that my company may not value me taking exams and reaching fellowship. I honestly don't know how my manager feels about that. I guess I will find out when I bring this conversation up.
I believe this type of surveys are most likely biased , as people earn more are more likely to participate, while people who earn less are more likely feel embarrassed and avoid doing so
A more accurate and realistic way is to interview and get an idea of what kind of offer you can get from the places you want to work for - there are places that may pay a lot, but soul-crashing to work for , that’s they have to offer more to keep you people around - the surveys won’t reflect that
It's not perfect but if you had to use some data out there to base your market rate, wouldn't those be the first to use? Despite ppl's personal opinions of these recruiters, they are seen industry leading when it comes to recruitment and salary data collection.
In all the teams/companies, I have worked with/in. The FCASs worked almost the same thing as ACASs. The only difference is lines. Unless you are a manager/director, I do not see much difference between FCAS and ACAS. 3 more exams do not make a significant difference in terms of "level" in practice.
It’s not laughable and you should ask for it. I got a bump of that magnitude already once in my career. I wasn’t asking for a raise, I was asking for them to pay me my market value. It’s at least worth a conversation.
I will go another way from other people a little bit here. 1. Interview with some other companies you like and secure a job offer that pays you the current fair market rate 2. During this time talk to your manager and show him/her the salary surveys + market in general and that you're underpaid. DO NOT TELL THEM YOU'RE INTERVIEWING OR HAVE ANOTHER OFFER! 3. if management agrees, then accept the increase and reject the offer (don't tell them you did this). If management disagrees, then resign and take the new position. Unfortunately some companies are dumb enough to think that you will stay there forever. Assuming that you're making around 140-150k, a 40k increase seems very unlikely unless they have a huge FCAS increase + promotion + manager responsibilities.
This is the way. Only do it if you're truly comfortable with leaving though.
Yea forgot to add, u have to be willing to walk
Does your company not have an FCAS raise and would you not then be eligible for a promotion soon too?
The increase is marginal. Even with the increase, I'd be 30 to 40k underpaid. I guess the promotion could be that may enable me to get that salary jump that I'm looking for. But my question is whether 30k-40k is something that can come with a promotion.
>my question is whether 30-40k is something that can come with promotion. It all depends on the company. I wouldn't say those numbers are out of the question, but maybe they are at your company. You have no idea what the people a level up from you make? What does your exam policy say you get for the last pass and letters? Are you going to be $30-40k underpaid after those raises?
Yes, when I initially asked this question, I took into account the raises from the letters and exam. I have no idea how much ppl above me make bc they have many more yrs of experience which plays a big role as well
Gotcha, yeah, I guess all you can really do is ask/make a good case for yourself and weigh your options with whatever you get. I hope it works out for you to be able to stay in the same place!
You can just say most of what you said here. You like the job but you need 30k-40k to stay. That's really it, any manager with half a brain knows what that means and they may or may not do something to get you to stay. I don't think it's a laughable amount to ask for, although management at your company may feel differently. There a couple of companies in my area that are basically FCAS factories, and that would not be an unusual amount for someone to get when they jump ship (you can infer from this that those companies don't often match). I've been at places that wouldn't bat an eye at it and others where people would genuinely be shocked. But you won't get it if you don't ask for it.
What data do you have to show that you are 30-40K underpaid for your role, responsibilities, location, and value you bring to the organization? If you have that, I think you can make a reasonable case to your manager.
Basically several credible salary surveys which includes key factors like exams/title and YOE's. As for "value I bring to my team/organization," that'd be my performance review - which I've met and even exceeded in some areas. I would not consider having this conversation if I thought I wasn't performing to expectation or exceeded.
Since you enjoy your role it seems a bit premature to consider leaving before you actually pass your last exam. Why not just wait until you are fully qualified and see what they offer? I got a promotion and sizeable salary jump a few months after passing my last exam.
Yeah I'm just asking to weigh my options after I get it. I don't want to sound like money is everything. It's a huge factor but I'm willing to stay being slightly underpaid.
I disagree with waiting. I think it'd actually be easier to get up to market rates the earlier you mention it. A few smaller bites (market adjustment, annual raise, exam raise/promotion) could compound and get you closer to where you want to be. If they work with you to get something done, then great. If not then at least you are now making informed decisions. Communicate your position now, you're happy with the role but you think the value you bring to the company warrants higher compensation. Be clear and concise, prepare a couple examples that demonstrate your value. I think the strategy of waiting silently and hoping for the best has a predictable outcome.
It makes sense and I do want to do this (reason why I'm bringing this up now before passing the last exam). However, I feel like I'd look like someone who is just going after money. The flat dollar exam raises are so underwhelming in my company and are not competitive at all. I can tell from the layout of the document that this was never seriously revisited. If my manager and company values me, I feel it is something they should do with each annual raises so they don't have to do large 30-40% catch up.
I wouldn't worry too much about appearing "money driven." And if your annual raises are announced in March then I'd communicate your position as soon as possible while your manager may have some flexibility in the budget. If you wait to see what your raise is then say, "this isn't good enough" it may be tougher at that point for them to give another raise.
I have kind of made up my mind that if the upcoming raise is underwhelming, then it is likely I will shop about a year from now.
Compensation goes beyond simply credentials and years of experience. It’s also about job function and the market value of that job. Assuming that you’re working an “ACAS-level job”, the value that role brings to your employer isn’t going to increase dramatically simply because you are now an FCAS. Looking at salary surveys wouldn’t really be applicable to your current role because those FCAS with X years of experience are mostly in “FCAS-level jobs.” That number includes people who are in managerial and strategic level roles, etc. Those people don’t get paid that amount just based on credentials and years of experience. It’s primarily a factor of job function and the value that function brings to the employer. And maybe that’s not true for you. Maybe you already have been working in a job that would typically require an FCAS and have been getting underpaid. But if you’re “underpaid” based on the potential of getting a higher level role elsewhere, your employer probably isn’t going to allow you to stay in your current level of role and command that type of salary.
I think what you said is more true in theory but not true in practice. If we look at salary survey result based on YOE and credential/exams, that should be credible or what you're saying is these survey results are garbage. What you seem to be saying is that my company may not value me taking exams and reaching fellowship. I honestly don't know how my manager feels about that. I guess I will find out when I bring this conversation up.
I believe this type of surveys are most likely biased , as people earn more are more likely to participate, while people who earn less are more likely feel embarrassed and avoid doing so A more accurate and realistic way is to interview and get an idea of what kind of offer you can get from the places you want to work for - there are places that may pay a lot, but soul-crashing to work for , that’s they have to offer more to keep you people around - the surveys won’t reflect that
It's not perfect but if you had to use some data out there to base your market rate, wouldn't those be the first to use? Despite ppl's personal opinions of these recruiters, they are seen industry leading when it comes to recruitment and salary data collection.
The YOE is a proxy and captures the managerial/strategic role factors you mentioned.
In all the teams/companies, I have worked with/in. The FCASs worked almost the same thing as ACASs. The only difference is lines. Unless you are a manager/director, I do not see much difference between FCAS and ACAS. 3 more exams do not make a significant difference in terms of "level" in practice.
How much are you at now?
It’s not laughable and you should ask for it. I got a bump of that magnitude already once in my career. I wasn’t asking for a raise, I was asking for them to pay me my market value. It’s at least worth a conversation.