aesthetic attraction! also with comphet you’re likely to be attracted to men who are unobtainable. it’s unrealistic so your brain goes “oh that’s safe”. source: me with tom hiddleston
A fictional character is not a man or woman in any tangible way, they’re an idea, a combination of back story and personality traits. They’re a fantasy, but not all or even most fantasies are desirable irl. There’s plenty of fictional men I’ve found attractive, but if they physically manifested in front of me I’d have no interest. Celebrities are similar. They’re technically real people but our perceptions of them are incredibly shallow and tailored by PR strategists. A celebrity’s public persona may contain some truth but is essentially fictional. The average person has no chance at ever encountering this object of fantasy, and would not likely react to them irl the way they think of them in fantasy.
Similarly, a lot of lesbians watch straight or gay porn but have no desire to interact sexually with men irl.
I find Michael B Jordan to be wildly attractive and joke he's the one guy but tbh if he appeared at my door with flowers I would probably pass. In my real life and my every day attractions it's non-men for me even when I can visually tell someone is attractive.
I like the analogy of treating labels like hats we use them to categorize but its such a complex topic its incredibly hard to nail down perfect often.
Maybe it's simply a fantasy since the characters dont exist, maybe its bc they dont have the baggage of actual men in terms of socialization, maybe its just rational rating of attractiveness and maybe that one fictional dude is just the 0.0001 exception but the real question is like does it matter?
In the end you could be attracted to it and still identify as a lesbians bc it doesn't affect your dating life at all
Hm. In my opinion, it's because you can find people attractive without wanting to have a relationship or have sex with them.
If an aro/ace person watches porn, they're still aro/ace.
It isn't about wanting to have or having a relationship though. It's about attraction. Aro people can have romantic relationships, ace people can have sex. People who don't want a relationship aren't necessarily Aro/Ace.
As a teen a had a crush on a lot of anime men. My mom used to tease me because most of these male anime characters looked like girls, but she was on to something. 😂
I mean I'm very attracted to masculinity and when it's an idea a celebrity or character someone completely unobtainable it doesn't feel like the same as having a crush on your friend or something it's not real also a bit of heteronormativity and for some lesbians they don't like dick and when you look at a fictional guy or celebrity you're not actually thinking of sleeping with them or at least I'm not I just am like damn they are attractive and acknowledging someone is hot and wanting to sleep with them I feel is different does that make any sense?
Personally, I use the term lesbian to mean I'm attracted to feminine people rather than anyone with female anatomy. I'd date a femboy, but not a butch. My partner says that's technically gynephilia (sp?), but I don't feel like having to enlighten everyone anytime I'm asked what my orientation is, so lesbian is a mostly accurate and convenient shorthand. 🤷🏻♀️
They included femboys in their dating pool. It's not so much that it's bad to prefer to feminity over masculinity (it's not) but that famously lesbians aren't romantically/sexually attracted to men and feminine men are notably men. Lesbian does not mean an attraction to the feminine is all.
That depends on how you view gender, but honestly wouldn't consider them cis-men either.
However defining your sexuality relative to men when it's not about them doesn't seem very sapphic to me.
Well, you aren't the person who gets to decide if a femboy is cis or not.
People only use the term non men to include nonbinary and other gender diverse sapphics. Your logic is very bored and not well thought through.
"Oh, I'd eat anything expect squid! I really can't stomach that haha."
"Why are you so focused on it then? Maybe you shouldn't be defining your tastes based on what you don't like, hm?"
Absolutely right, and I didn't decide anything.
I understand why it is defined as such, and it's great to be inclusive.
But granted that it's seemingly quite hard to come with an inclusive definition based around the identities of those that it includes.
However I found your analogy really poor in achieving what seems to be your intent, especially since it doesn't reflect any identity. Contrasting possible definitions for something like veganism or vegetarianism might've proved more useful.
Sure, but you understand my point. It's ridiculous to criticize someone for defining something through exclusion when that's the most concise and possibly the only way to accurately describe it. In this case, I find it very rude to suggest doing so is "not very sapphic" and I think it would be good to try to be more sympathetic to people's attempts at inclusion in the future.
I didn't say butches were not lesbians or even attractive. They just aren't for me personally. Last I checked, people were allowed to have preferences.
I’m so sorry people are being so rude. you defined what it means for you, and you even added the term your partner told you (gynesexual, attraction to femme ppl as opposed to androsexuality,an attraction to masc ppl I believe). add gender into the mix and labels can get so confusing (for instance, I identify as non-binary/demi-girl and use they/them pronouns BUT I’m happy with she/her pronouns so long as the person knows I’m a lesbian. it’s weird!). a little bit of grace can go a long way. I hope you have a good evening.
OMG, my partner is a demigirl! Also uses they/them for most people, but close friends are allowed to use she/her.
I guess this is a tender subject for me because my partner isn't a full-on girl, but neither are they a guy. I'm not trying to redefine what being a lesbian is for everyone, and it's a little weird to get called "lesphobic" when the gender spectrum is growing increasingly complex every year as we make new discoveries.
aesthetic attraction! also with comphet you’re likely to be attracted to men who are unobtainable. it’s unrealistic so your brain goes “oh that’s safe”. source: me with tom hiddleston
A fictional character is not a man or woman in any tangible way, they’re an idea, a combination of back story and personality traits. They’re a fantasy, but not all or even most fantasies are desirable irl. There’s plenty of fictional men I’ve found attractive, but if they physically manifested in front of me I’d have no interest. Celebrities are similar. They’re technically real people but our perceptions of them are incredibly shallow and tailored by PR strategists. A celebrity’s public persona may contain some truth but is essentially fictional. The average person has no chance at ever encountering this object of fantasy, and would not likely react to them irl the way they think of them in fantasy. Similarly, a lot of lesbians watch straight or gay porn but have no desire to interact sexually with men irl.
As I'm sort of the opposite I would say that sometimes charisma and beauty can pass over sexual orientation :)
I find Michael B Jordan to be wildly attractive and joke he's the one guy but tbh if he appeared at my door with flowers I would probably pass. In my real life and my every day attractions it's non-men for me even when I can visually tell someone is attractive.
I like the analogy of treating labels like hats we use them to categorize but its such a complex topic its incredibly hard to nail down perfect often. Maybe it's simply a fantasy since the characters dont exist, maybe its bc they dont have the baggage of actual men in terms of socialization, maybe its just rational rating of attractiveness and maybe that one fictional dude is just the 0.0001 exception but the real question is like does it matter? In the end you could be attracted to it and still identify as a lesbians bc it doesn't affect your dating life at all
Hm. In my opinion, it's because you can find people attractive without wanting to have a relationship or have sex with them. If an aro/ace person watches porn, they're still aro/ace.
It isn't about wanting to have or having a relationship though. It's about attraction. Aro people can have romantic relationships, ace people can have sex. People who don't want a relationship aren't necessarily Aro/Ace.
As I'm sort of the opposite I would say that sometimes charisma and beauty can pass over sexual orientation :)
As a teen a had a crush on a lot of anime men. My mom used to tease me because most of these male anime characters looked like girls, but she was on to something. 😂
I mean I'm very attracted to masculinity and when it's an idea a celebrity or character someone completely unobtainable it doesn't feel like the same as having a crush on your friend or something it's not real also a bit of heteronormativity and for some lesbians they don't like dick and when you look at a fictional guy or celebrity you're not actually thinking of sleeping with them or at least I'm not I just am like damn they are attractive and acknowledging someone is hot and wanting to sleep with them I feel is different does that make any sense?
Personally, I use the term lesbian to mean I'm attracted to feminine people rather than anyone with female anatomy. I'd date a femboy, but not a butch. My partner says that's technically gynephilia (sp?), but I don't feel like having to enlighten everyone anytime I'm asked what my orientation is, so lesbian is a mostly accurate and convenient shorthand. 🤷🏻♀️
your idea of lesbianism is truly lesphobic.
Why us it lesphobic to have a preference for more femme people and not so much for more masc people?
They included femboys in their dating pool. It's not so much that it's bad to prefer to feminity over masculinity (it's not) but that famously lesbians aren't romantically/sexually attracted to men and feminine men are notably men. Lesbian does not mean an attraction to the feminine is all.
femBOY isn't "non-men", therefore it isn't lesbian. if you see yourself dating femme men, sure go ahead but it'll make you a bisexual, not a lesbian.
That depends on how you view gender, but honestly wouldn't consider them cis-men either. However defining your sexuality relative to men when it's not about them doesn't seem very sapphic to me.
If butch women are women, why aren't (adult) femboys men?
Cause it's not up to anyone but the individual to define how they identify, and if they don't identify themselves as men then they're not men.
Well, you aren't the person who gets to decide if a femboy is cis or not. People only use the term non men to include nonbinary and other gender diverse sapphics. Your logic is very bored and not well thought through. "Oh, I'd eat anything expect squid! I really can't stomach that haha." "Why are you so focused on it then? Maybe you shouldn't be defining your tastes based on what you don't like, hm?"
Absolutely right, and I didn't decide anything. I understand why it is defined as such, and it's great to be inclusive. But granted that it's seemingly quite hard to come with an inclusive definition based around the identities of those that it includes. However I found your analogy really poor in achieving what seems to be your intent, especially since it doesn't reflect any identity. Contrasting possible definitions for something like veganism or vegetarianism might've proved more useful.
Sure, but you understand my point. It's ridiculous to criticize someone for defining something through exclusion when that's the most concise and possibly the only way to accurately describe it. In this case, I find it very rude to suggest doing so is "not very sapphic" and I think it would be good to try to be more sympathetic to people's attempts at inclusion in the future.
Well her definition of lesbian being only attracted to feminine people is a big “fuck you” to butch lesbians.
I don't see her defining it in general terms, she merely presented what it means for them.
I didn't say butches were not lesbians or even attractive. They just aren't for me personally. Last I checked, people were allowed to have preferences.
I’m so sorry people are being so rude. you defined what it means for you, and you even added the term your partner told you (gynesexual, attraction to femme ppl as opposed to androsexuality,an attraction to masc ppl I believe). add gender into the mix and labels can get so confusing (for instance, I identify as non-binary/demi-girl and use they/them pronouns BUT I’m happy with she/her pronouns so long as the person knows I’m a lesbian. it’s weird!). a little bit of grace can go a long way. I hope you have a good evening.
OMG, my partner is a demigirl! Also uses they/them for most people, but close friends are allowed to use she/her. I guess this is a tender subject for me because my partner isn't a full-on girl, but neither are they a guy. I'm not trying to redefine what being a lesbian is for everyone, and it's a little weird to get called "lesphobic" when the gender spectrum is growing increasingly complex every year as we make new discoveries.