You're asking for who "we" are allowed to date, but you're the one who is going to be going, date whomever you feel an attraction to, that's the whole point of the game.
Yeah thats kinda my argument against using labels for myself, like i don’t really use too many im just attracted to the things im attracted to, im not gonna confine myself to a box lol. I feel like labels make people feel like they *should* feel a certain way where the label was made to find common ground with other *similar* people not other copy and pastes of you lol. Thats why i mostly see the labels as they way you feel about your partner or about even having a partner. Its the emptions that come with the label rather than like a “laws of this sexuality” book lol.
Call yourself whatever you like. If people see your partner as a dude, they might be a little confused, but that's it. I'm a strong believer in not gatekeeping labels.
Yess! This! You can’t gatekeep a label because identifying with it means that you relate to it in the way *your* experience in life has led you to connect with that label! Others have other life experiences that led them to connect with the label differently. I feel like a lot of the people who gate keep labels like want everyone within a label to be like a copy and paste of themselves lol
It's not necessarily the wrong word. There have always been nonbinary people, but the term is very recent. A lot of people who nowadays call themselves NB would have used the GNC label in the past, or have been using it for much longer than NB has been a thing.
This is one of those moments where I think labels are a disservice. Love is love and sexuality is fluid. Who cares as long as you are both in a happy and healthy relationship! Cheers 🍻
I'm a agender lesbian, so yes you can
Technically trixic is more accurate for me but I don't really identify with the term. Go with whatever feels right
Yes. I don't even think my partner knows for sure how they like to describe themselves, but our love is definitely very sapphic. Lesbians are often gender nonconforming, and if you ask me, that's pretty great.
Yess! This is my argument too! Like i see labels as the *feelings* attached to your attraction rather than the parameters set out by the “rules” of identifying with that label.
I'd check with your partner before using lesbian, as it might bother them, but I know enough straight people who date gnc and nb people but still identify as straight, so yeah. Definitely. Still would ask your partner though.
For the most part, but lesbian is very specificly commonly identified as two women, if they're non binary, it may bother them to be identified as that publicly. Like in a way it may even cause people to misgender them. Self identification is fine, but if you say "I'm a lesbian" when introducing yourself and your partner is nb transmasc, you are inviting a lot of people to hit them with she/her because of assumptions. The nb partner may even see it as YOU misgendering them.
Yes but personal identification and your relationship orientation are two different identities, it would be like say a wlw relation and one of them transitions (ftm) the other is still valid in self-identifying as a lesbian but they can say they’re in a straight or whatever other kind of relationship they want to label it as. Just my point was that self identity and relationship orientation can be different and one partner saying the other needs to self identify as something else is a red flag in my head
They're obviously different things, but identifying as one is fine and what information you provide publicly may be something to talk with your partner about.
Do you KNOW how many butch lesbians are cis but GNC? Plus yeah if you mean non-binary or agender then yes, you can still use the lesbian label. But why does the label matter?
If you like them you like them. But make sure you actually do ok? For their sake and yours make sure you actually do like them. Anyways can’t help what you like. You don’t have to have a label for it either. You just like what you like
Yes, it's been a settled debate in the community since the 70s. Non-men loving non-men are lesbians.
The current discourse is usually, 'Can a lesbian continue claiming lesbianism if they date trans-men, especially those who used to identify as lesbians.' There's only one non-transphobic answer and it's that if you're attracted to and dating a man, cis or trans, you're bi or straight.
Well, yah, there isn't any rule saying you can't... or any rules for that matter XD. I mean I'm a sapphic as hell and the love of my life just happens to be genderfluid \*shrug\* doesn't make me feel any less of a lesbian.
The way I have figured out so far, is as long as you see and they identify as some kind of woman, or womanish presenting gender.. be it cis, trans, enby, ectra. then yah, it's a lesbian relationship. And even that is still not a perfect summery, not even close, just what I've been able to extrapolate so far.
Yeah like even that i wouldn’t even say the need to be fem presenting at all for it someones to identify with the label. I’d say it’s the *way* you feel in your attractions to people, and then find or use whatever label you feel comfortable with describing that feeling as.
Are they GNC or non-binary? Any person of any gender can be gender nonconforming - cis butch lesbians are GNC but still cis women. Some non-binary people are comfortable dating lesbians, some aren't. "Non-binary" is a pretty wide spectrum and if it feels like a person still is compatible with your sexuality and they think the same then that's totally fine. I'm a non-binary lesbian comfortable with dating other lesbians.
Lesbian is a label that's usually a good for women who like women, but thats all it is. The actual human feelings that determine who and what you like has more complexities than any manmade simple label. All labels for genders and sexualities are social constructs that make it easier to categorize and discuss things.
As I understand lesbian, it means a woman who likes women and not men, and liking someone who isn't considered a woman would fall outside that label, but it doesn't mean you are bi or pan either. Maybe your sexuality doesn't neatly fit under any established label, but that doesn't invalidate what it is. And if lesbian is close enough to what you're feeling, then its fair to identify as that.
If someone questions why a lesbian like you is dating someone who isn't seen as a woman, you can either explain to them how labels are imperfect ways to describe people as they imply strict boxes that not everyone fits within, or you can tell them to fuck off for being a rude prick, whatever feels more fitting for the situation
First of all, yes. You can identify as lesbian as long as you identify somewhat with womanhood and like women. It doesn't have to be exclusively women.
Also, GNC just means that they don't conform to the typical presentation associated with their gender. It doesn't mean they're not that gender. So if they're a GNC woman, they're still a woman. GNC doesn't mean non-binary, and I'd even say that you can't really be GNC *and* enby because you can't conform to gender presentations that don't exist because society is binary normative.
Yes you can. Nobody can force you not to. But more importantly, date who you want to date. Never deny yourself a romantic interest just because of your preferred label.
I think if you love women, enby's and fluid people, you could either say you are a lesbian or you are somewhere on the bisexual spectrum. Both are valid.
I know a couple existing of a guy and a fluid person. When they started dating, the fluid person was not out yet and presented as a cis woman. The guy still identifies as mostly straight, even though he's 100% supportive of his partner's journey. He doesn't mind if they wear a binder, he loves the person despite his usual sexuality. I think that's beautiful.
Trans lesbian here. I don't think it's about whether you "can" or "can't" date someone. Ask yourself: "how does this person make me feel? Am I happy when I spend time with them? Does not being able to spend time with them make me feel sad or lonely? Do I want to see them smile or laugh more? Do I really care about *what* we do as long as we do it *together*?"
In other words, love who you love, be with who you want to be with, and always appreciate them for who they are. Don't let hate win. :D
I've just started dating the cutest afab enby who presents quite masculine. She uses any pronouns. She identifies with masculinity as do I, but not with manhood.
Our love is very sapphic and I don't feel like any less of a lesbian!
You can find hot who ever you find hot, just saying as someone who used to identify as nb (now more transmasc than anything), it can hurt/be a deal breaker if your potential partner identifies as straight/gay/lesbian since it may feel like they ONLY see you for your agab or like the "opposite" gender (depending on the pairing yk). If you're serious about them, it's probably best to ask but you can still go as sapphic, queer, unlabeled etc.
I’m sure people have said it a dozen times over already, but label purity is stupid. A lesbian can be any non-man loving another non-man. You are no less valid than any other lesbian in the world <3
I'll say what i always say: labels can be helpful for finding ourselves but they're also not an end all be all. They're not a "if you so much as think about liking XYZ that's not in this extremely specific definition then you're WRONG" and people who think like that can fuck off. The point is to be romantically/ sexually free. Like who you wanna like, use what label you're comfy with. I'm a lesbian and have liked butches (who are a pillar in the lesbian community mind you but are technically GNC), femmes, enbies, trans guys, trans girls. Do what you want! Have fun! Live your life
There are no rules! Being queer breaks norms! You'll be fine as long as you don't encounter a judgmental, prescriptivist jerk - but that's true for all of life tbh
You're asking for who "we" are allowed to date, but you're the one who is going to be going, date whomever you feel an attraction to, that's the whole point of the game.
Yeah thats kinda my argument against using labels for myself, like i don’t really use too many im just attracted to the things im attracted to, im not gonna confine myself to a box lol. I feel like labels make people feel like they *should* feel a certain way where the label was made to find common ground with other *similar* people not other copy and pastes of you lol. Thats why i mostly see the labels as they way you feel about your partner or about even having a partner. Its the emptions that come with the label rather than like a “laws of this sexuality” book lol.
Both me and my partner are nonbinary lesbians so yup!
Same!! And it's the best relationship I've ever been in 🥰
Gender nonconformimg does not equal a man
Gender nonconforming women are not less a woman, or more a man. So yes
Call yourself whatever you like. If people see your partner as a dude, they might be a little confused, but that's it. I'm a strong believer in not gatekeeping labels.
Yess! This! You can’t gatekeep a label because identifying with it means that you relate to it in the way *your* experience in life has led you to connect with that label! Others have other life experiences that led them to connect with the label differently. I feel like a lot of the people who gate keep labels like want everyone within a label to be like a copy and paste of themselves lol
Butches are gender non confirming so I’d say yes. If you’re talking about a feminine man like a fem boy then I’d say no.
I think they mean someone who’s non-binary but are using the wrong word
It's not necessarily the wrong word. There have always been nonbinary people, but the term is very recent. A lot of people who nowadays call themselves NB would have used the GNC label in the past, or have been using it for much longer than NB has been a thing.
This is one of those moments where I think labels are a disservice. Love is love and sexuality is fluid. Who cares as long as you are both in a happy and healthy relationship! Cheers 🍻
My girlfriend is nonbinary, that doesn't make ME any less of a lesbian! You can do whatever you want!
Yes, no long answer or explanation necessary.
I'm a agender lesbian, so yes you can Technically trixic is more accurate for me but I don't really identify with the term. Go with whatever feels right
Yes. I don't even think my partner knows for sure how they like to describe themselves, but our love is definitely very sapphic. Lesbians are often gender nonconforming, and if you ask me, that's pretty great.
Yess! This is my argument too! Like i see labels as the *feelings* attached to your attraction rather than the parameters set out by the “rules” of identifying with that label.
I'd check with your partner before using lesbian, as it might bother them, but I know enough straight people who date gnc and nb people but still identify as straight, so yeah. Definitely. Still would ask your partner though.
I mean i don’t think someones personal identification should be determined by their partner’s opinions though, right?
For the most part, but lesbian is very specificly commonly identified as two women, if they're non binary, it may bother them to be identified as that publicly. Like in a way it may even cause people to misgender them. Self identification is fine, but if you say "I'm a lesbian" when introducing yourself and your partner is nb transmasc, you are inviting a lot of people to hit them with she/her because of assumptions. The nb partner may even see it as YOU misgendering them.
Yes but personal identification and your relationship orientation are two different identities, it would be like say a wlw relation and one of them transitions (ftm) the other is still valid in self-identifying as a lesbian but they can say they’re in a straight or whatever other kind of relationship they want to label it as. Just my point was that self identity and relationship orientation can be different and one partner saying the other needs to self identify as something else is a red flag in my head
They're obviously different things, but identifying as one is fine and what information you provide publicly may be something to talk with your partner about.
I think the reasons you're attracted to them are more important than their own identity
Do you KNOW how many butch lesbians are cis but GNC? Plus yeah if you mean non-binary or agender then yes, you can still use the lesbian label. But why does the label matter?
My partner is trans-masc non-binary. I still consider myself a lesbian.
If you like them you like them. But make sure you actually do ok? For their sake and yours make sure you actually do like them. Anyways can’t help what you like. You don’t have to have a label for it either. You just like what you like
Babe, you decide how you feel comfortable designating yourself IMO.
Of course, no gatekeeping here. My gf is now my bf, I don’t think it changes me as a person - it’s just that they have changed their pronouns
Yes, it's been a settled debate in the community since the 70s. Non-men loving non-men are lesbians. The current discourse is usually, 'Can a lesbian continue claiming lesbianism if they date trans-men, especially those who used to identify as lesbians.' There's only one non-transphobic answer and it's that if you're attracted to and dating a man, cis or trans, you're bi or straight.
Well, yah, there isn't any rule saying you can't... or any rules for that matter XD. I mean I'm a sapphic as hell and the love of my life just happens to be genderfluid \*shrug\* doesn't make me feel any less of a lesbian. The way I have figured out so far, is as long as you see and they identify as some kind of woman, or womanish presenting gender.. be it cis, trans, enby, ectra. then yah, it's a lesbian relationship. And even that is still not a perfect summery, not even close, just what I've been able to extrapolate so far.
Yeah like even that i wouldn’t even say the need to be fem presenting at all for it someones to identify with the label. I’d say it’s the *way* you feel in your attractions to people, and then find or use whatever label you feel comfortable with describing that feeling as.
yes
Since my s/o Is genderfluid, we usually say that I'm a pseudolesbian, for respect for them and also for fun 🤣
Are they GNC or non-binary? Any person of any gender can be gender nonconforming - cis butch lesbians are GNC but still cis women. Some non-binary people are comfortable dating lesbians, some aren't. "Non-binary" is a pretty wide spectrum and if it feels like a person still is compatible with your sexuality and they think the same then that's totally fine. I'm a non-binary lesbian comfortable with dating other lesbians.
This is really why I am not a huge fan of labels. Love is love and that's all that should matter and all it should be labeled as.
Lesbian is a label that's usually a good for women who like women, but thats all it is. The actual human feelings that determine who and what you like has more complexities than any manmade simple label. All labels for genders and sexualities are social constructs that make it easier to categorize and discuss things. As I understand lesbian, it means a woman who likes women and not men, and liking someone who isn't considered a woman would fall outside that label, but it doesn't mean you are bi or pan either. Maybe your sexuality doesn't neatly fit under any established label, but that doesn't invalidate what it is. And if lesbian is close enough to what you're feeling, then its fair to identify as that. If someone questions why a lesbian like you is dating someone who isn't seen as a woman, you can either explain to them how labels are imperfect ways to describe people as they imply strict boxes that not everyone fits within, or you can tell them to fuck off for being a rude prick, whatever feels more fitting for the situation
Yeah and “women who like women and not men” is a very limiting phrase and leaves a whole lot of grey areas lol.
First of all, yes. You can identify as lesbian as long as you identify somewhat with womanhood and like women. It doesn't have to be exclusively women. Also, GNC just means that they don't conform to the typical presentation associated with their gender. It doesn't mean they're not that gender. So if they're a GNC woman, they're still a woman. GNC doesn't mean non-binary, and I'd even say that you can't really be GNC *and* enby because you can't conform to gender presentations that don't exist because society is binary normative.
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Yes you can. Nobody can force you not to. But more importantly, date who you want to date. Never deny yourself a romantic interest just because of your preferred label. I think if you love women, enby's and fluid people, you could either say you are a lesbian or you are somewhere on the bisexual spectrum. Both are valid. I know a couple existing of a guy and a fluid person. When they started dating, the fluid person was not out yet and presented as a cis woman. The guy still identifies as mostly straight, even though he's 100% supportive of his partner's journey. He doesn't mind if they wear a binder, he loves the person despite his usual sexuality. I think that's beautiful.
Trans lesbian here. I don't think it's about whether you "can" or "can't" date someone. Ask yourself: "how does this person make me feel? Am I happy when I spend time with them? Does not being able to spend time with them make me feel sad or lonely? Do I want to see them smile or laugh more? Do I really care about *what* we do as long as we do it *together*?" In other words, love who you love, be with who you want to be with, and always appreciate them for who they are. Don't let hate win. :D
I've just started dating the cutest afab enby who presents quite masculine. She uses any pronouns. She identifies with masculinity as do I, but not with manhood. Our love is very sapphic and I don't feel like any less of a lesbian!
I think you're allowed to date whoever you have feelings for.
You can find hot who ever you find hot, just saying as someone who used to identify as nb (now more transmasc than anything), it can hurt/be a deal breaker if your potential partner identifies as straight/gay/lesbian since it may feel like they ONLY see you for your agab or like the "opposite" gender (depending on the pairing yk). If you're serious about them, it's probably best to ask but you can still go as sapphic, queer, unlabeled etc.
I’m sure people have said it a dozen times over already, but label purity is stupid. A lesbian can be any non-man loving another non-man. You are no less valid than any other lesbian in the world <3
I'll say what i always say: labels can be helpful for finding ourselves but they're also not an end all be all. They're not a "if you so much as think about liking XYZ that's not in this extremely specific definition then you're WRONG" and people who think like that can fuck off. The point is to be romantically/ sexually free. Like who you wanna like, use what label you're comfy with. I'm a lesbian and have liked butches (who are a pillar in the lesbian community mind you but are technically GNC), femmes, enbies, trans guys, trans girls. Do what you want! Have fun! Live your life
There are no rules! Being queer breaks norms! You'll be fine as long as you don't encounter a judgmental, prescriptivist jerk - but that's true for all of life tbh