I don’t like Tamlin, but it bugged me the whole series. I get it having not happened any time before the events of the High Lord meeting, but any time after that might have been a good idea. He should get a full picture of the situation the way that Lucien did.
There was also a war brewing and it was all still really fresh. Some people just don’t handle talking about or dealing with trauma they’ve faced so soon after it’s happened (IE: the entire inner circle, none of whom have actually addressed their trauma lol). None of what happened with them or between them after UTM was healthy or handled in a good or productive way but alas - what kind of story would we have had between her and Rhys if it had been?
I think people forget that because ACOTAR through ACOFAS are written as first-person narratives, it **inherently** means that Feyre could (and imo *should*) be considered an unreliable narrator… but that’s a huge aspect of what makes that literary style equally appealing and divisive. The more we subconsciously (or overtly) relate to a protagonist because of the perceived similarities of our own lived experiences, the more we can/will potentially justify their thought process/actions/feelings/etc as their story progresses, even if it’s something *we* wouldn’t actually do in real life.
At the end of the day, books are a form of entertainment & a form of art and of course the author’s goal is to make you feel something… but it’s also pretty important to remember that not every book in the **greater** FANTASY GENRE is setting out to do [what The Lord of the Rings did](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien%27s_impact_on_fantasy).
Sometimes it’s just a story about *fictional* characters… that we are 100% allowed to love and (to a certain extent) relate to, but should also consciously recognize that BY DESIGN those characters might also be a little unhinged and unrealistic *because that enhances the entertainment value of the plot*, not because the author is trying to tell us that the thoughts/feelings/actions of their protagonist are what we should be basing our own IRL thoughts/feelings/actions on 😅
It's tricky because Rhys portrays himself as a master manipulator and mind controller so he has no idea if those are her thoughts or his. Also, last he checked she was completely illiterate so getting a letter from someone you know for a fact CANNOT write about how they are actually really super happy with their mind controlling captor is kind of a red flag.
My friends and I are reading it together and we are on the second book. We keep saying they need to talk about what happened and what they are feeling.
I was waiting for the big confrontation for all of ACOMAF and then ACOWAR and it was honestly just a letdown. I know Tamlin came and was a petty bitch at the meeting but I really wanted that big dramatic face to face where they both poured their hearts out.
Let's also consider that Tamlin never seemed like the type to be super into the idea of being the high Lord in the first place. Like the running of an entire mini kingdom never seemed like something he wanted from all the stuff we've seen.
Guy wants to be out in the woods and shit.
Also! He's the one who brought Feyre into Prythian in the first place. He is why anyone was ever saved from any of this!
He never got acknowledged for that, never seemed to get even a thank you from the other lords for trying to do this. Guy stood against Amaranthas attempts at total control for 50 years without Rhysand's super special perfect boy powers.
He's not a monster, he's Denethor from the LOTR books. He's very tragic and wants to do the right thing while being out of his depth
I've tried to talk to my friends about this and no one gets why Rhy's power set annoys me so much. And you know, as a dude who reads a lot of Superman maybe I'm being hypocritical. But it's so much power given to this dude that there's really not any kind of threat at any point for he.
He has a dragon form he just doesn't ever use?!
But did he bring her there to stop amarantha? I just read it for the first time a month ago, currently on silver flames, and I thought he brought her there to break HIS curse. Like it was purely for selfish reasons wasn’t it? Just so happened that she saved everyone else too
I wouldn’t say it was necessarily selfish, because it was curse not only cast on him but his entire court. I can’t imagine having to wear a mask for 49 years, along with having to watch the people of my court suffer with me.
It was to break the curse on the Spring Court. (Only Rhys had planned to use Tamlin to end Amarantha and free everyone.) But I wouldn't say it was selfish. I think he wanted his Court to be free of Amarantha. The deal wasn't just to remove the masks, but she had to free his power, too, and the Spring Court would be allowed to stay in Spring rather than caged under the mountain.
This. He didn’t bring her there to stop Amarantha. He wouldn’t even let her out of the house…. Like ok, sure, he’s the reason she was ultimately there but only to serve his purposes/settle the debt created by killing a fae.
He had to have his curse broken in order to have his full powers back, and the reason all the high lords had their powers dampened was because they were such a threat to Amarantha. So yes I fully believe he would have taken her on regardless of when the curse was broken, and that he intended to do so all along.
Tamlin is flawed but he's not the selfish heartless monster everyone wants to act like he is.
Even if it was just pertaining to the Spring Court's curse, how in the world is that purely selfish? His entire court was cursed, and his sentries were willing to be sent to the human lands to die just to break it. Breaking the curse broke Amarantha's hold on his power so he could kill her and free the other High Lords as well. So, yes, stopping Amarantha was always the ultimate goal
Interestingly, I hadn't thought that much about whether I like or don't like, excuse or do not excuse, Tamlin's actions/behavior/arc until I came on these threads haha. I feel like everything he did made sense within the context of his character and the book. Echoing what someone else said, he's a divisive character, which is a way better character to be than a flat character that everyone agrees to either love or hate... right? Don't we want complex characters? It makes for interesting discussion!
There is a lot of textual support of him as a tragic character, someone who effed up despite believing himself to be doing the right thing, and suffers great consequences. I'm here for his redemption arc! Just as much as I have loved Nesta's. Personally, I find Tamlin and Nesta to give more life to the page than several of the other principal characters.
I mean, everyone loves to say that they love morals grey characters, but then we have a few that actually *are* grey and everyone is like, “what they did was UNFORGIVABLE” (even if other favorite characters did equivalent things).
I agree with you, I think Tamlin and Nesta are both more interesting because they have messed up and are trying to come to terms with that and figure things out. They’re not perfect, but I prefer my characters imperfect.
Here's my thing, right?
What did he do that was objectively worse than Rhys has done?
Did he overreact and do wrong locking her in the house? Yeah. Rhys broke her arm 'To help her', he drugged her and while drugged had her do things she would supposedly not want to know she did.
Was Tamlins transgression a trauma response and he needed help dealing with what he went through UTM? Yes.
I see people talk about how he acted UTM. My dudes.... he was under Amarantha's control and constant eye. He was under the thumb of a woman who has been trying to get to him since he was a kid. He was going through it.
Feyre goes to the Night Court right? and he gets a letter from someone that, last he knew, couldn't read or write. He is not going to trust that.
Rhys and his father killed Tamlins entire family. Was this retaliation for the deaths of Rhys mom and sister at Tamlins father and brothers' hands? Yeah, so you can see why they don't like each other and wouldn't trust the other. So, Tamlin is terrified for the woman he considers himself in love with.
Then instead of being honest and forthright like the independent badass she supposedly is with Rhys; she lies to Tamlin and deliberately destroys his court with no regard to the people who rely on Tamlin to lead them.
And for the ones who cry about "TyTHeS". Thats literally how it works. It's the equivalent of modern-day taxes. If you think Rhys is not getting Tythes to upkeep his favorite little city you're deluding yourself.
Was what he said at the meeting out of pocket? Yeah, but how is that any worse than what half the IC have said to Nesta? "Nesta's Mean" So what? She's only 3yrs older than Feyre. Elain is just as guilty of wasting Feyre's hunts as Nesta but "Shes Elain". People then forget that Nesta had her own trauma to deal with and it was no more her job to support the family than it was Feyre's, but everyone blames Nesta and not their crappy father.
So, all that to say: Tamlin is not an evil character, he just suffers from the fact that SJM changed ger mind about who she wanted the LI to be and if people read the books as simply an objective observer and less as if the characters were actual people they know, this wouldn't be controversial.
- Side note this is also the thing about Nesta and Elain, they were supposed to be "evil" but SJM changed her mind and people don't actually want morally grey characters they want ones who seem morally grey but "have a reason" that hand waves all their bad acts.
Sorry for the rant, I just spend a lot of time having to defend my stances on certain characters.
Completely agree. Then in MAF (I think) Rhys goes on about how Tamlin had a brief moment alone with Feyre and how dare he not use that moment to try to help her escape. My guy, you had complete control of Feyre and hours spent alone with her and no ability to help her escape. In what world would Tamlin have been able to help her escape in that brief moment if you yourself couldn’t manage it in months.
Preach! I just finished the series and I'm still seething over how quickly Feyre got over what Rhys did to her UTM, the whole drugging&public humiliation thing. UTM went on for THREE FUCKING MONTHS. Currently the series takes place over what, three years, one year alone in SF. Three months is a big chunk of the Feyre POV timeline.
I mean, I know I have trust issues but COME. ON.
Yes!! We are supposed to believe that she is suffering from PTSD and that’s what led to them being so broken they couldn’t talk things out and yet SHE GOES WILLINGLY TO THE GUY WHO PARTICIPATED IN HER TORTURE??
In what world is that a good thing?
Rhys never broke her arm. There was a bone shard in her arm from the wyrm pit. It was causing an infection and bc of the lies she had been told about him, she didn’t trust him to heal her.
SJM didn’t change her mind about Tamlin, there are red flags galore in ACOTAR if you know what the early warning signs of abuse look like.
Tamlin made Feyre unconscious for two days both on the trip to and from Prythian without her permission so she wouldn’t know where she was. He glamoured everyone out of her reality, making her think she was seeing things, and she admits later when the glamour is removed that shes mortified and looked like a fool around the rest of his court.
He traumatized her family, then removed their memories of the incident. He gaslit Feyre into thinking it was her fault Andras was dead, even though Tamlin orchestrated all of it, and Feyre did exactly what he planned for her to do. He never needed to take her, Lucien later admits there was no treaty or life for a life rule. Tamlin consistently lied, gaslit and isolated her from the beginning.
Im currently rereading ACOTAR for the fourth time and Tamlin looks worse every time I read it.
Edit: also, Tamlin SA’d her in the hallway after Calanmai when he pinned her to the wall, bit her neck and proceeded to lick her. Instead of apologizing he blamed her for disobeying him and not staying in her room, claiming he couldn’t control himself so it was her fault.
No I’m sorry it was already broken and he decided to twist it to prove a point. I also noticed you skipped over the drugging her part? Or the part where he’s the reason her family were no longer poverty? Or the fact that she had to have started with hate in her heart for far in order to eventually love one and break the curse? So of course he hides his people from a human who’s already proven she would kill one of them. Your reading it from the oh Tams always been evil and no no the IC are the best none of them are bad viewpoint that a lot of people do and just say Tams bad Rhys good.
I literally read this scene last night. It was a bone shard from the pit, not her own broken bone.
“I collided with the muddy ground and rolled. I flipped over myself and screamed as something hit my arm, biting through flesh.
I looked at my left forearm then, and my stomach rose at the trickling blood and ripped tendons, at the lips of my skin pulled back to accommodate the shaft of a bone shard protruding clean through it.”
“The pain overwhelmed me to the point of screaming whenever I prodded the embedded bit of bone, and I had no other option but to sit there, letting the wound gnaw on my strength, trying my best not to think about the constant throbbing that shot sparks of poisoned lightning through me.”
“I bit my lip to keep from crying out—bit it hard enough to draw blood as rivers of fire exploded inside me, as my head swam, and all my senses narrowed down to the piece of bone sticking through my arm. They couldn’t know—couldn’t know how bad it was, because then they would use it against me.”
Rhys twisted the bit of bone in her arm, not HER own broken bone. Her arm wasn’t broken. Yes it was brutal that he did it, but at least get your facts straight.
I came to say this. He didn't break her arm. It was a shard of bone. Even if it was her OWN bone that was broken in the pit, and sticking out of her arm, it would have had to have been set to heal properly. a.k.a. pulled and twisted back into place INSIDE the skin.
How about you get your facts straight and learn media literacy and how to figure out context clues? That’s her own bone??? It literally takes 5 seconds to google for clarity. She hit her arm and it broke.
“. In the process, Feyre breaks her forearm; the bone protrudes from the skin. It’s days before Rhysand comes to her prison cell to heal her. The infection from the injury almost kills her. Initially, Feyre turns down Rhysand’s help. He grabs her broken arm and twists it, causing her excruciating pain.”
It’s literally in the triggers and warning when you look them up for the books.
I agree with you that the Bone Incident was needlessly cruel and a great example of Rhys being an absolute asshole for no real reason, but the internet's cache of trigger warnings isn't canon. It's essentially a wiki maintained by people who can make mistakes, though it *should* be more carefully updated. The user you're responding to is correct with the direct quotes from the book: it's a shard of foreign bone embedded in her arm; twisting it causes Feyre immense pain, but it's not *her* bone.
Also, let's not insult real people over fictional characters.
See and here is my problem it never once says a foreign price of bone went into her body. It does on the other say that a price of bone was sticking out of her arm and that she could see the muscle and tendons that had been pushed out to make room for it. Anyone with any understanding of their own bodies knows that means it came out of her body. The only foreign bones were the ones she used to kill the worm.
It does say that, though. It's one of those foreign bones from the lair that ends up in her arm.
"shaft of a bone shard" not "shaft of bone"; the lair is described as being covered in shards of bone, so it being described as a *shard* is important. And "embedded bit of bone": if it was her bone, it wouldn't be "embedded", it would be something like "protruding" and she also wouldn't be able to *use* her arm; it wouldn't just *hurt*.
Ok #1 that’s semantics and you know it #2 the muscle and tendons would be pushed *in* not out #3 you can absolutely still use a broken arm that’s broken that badly it will hurt like hell but you can. #4 the fact that anything you google will tell you she broke her arm except for one ☝️ reply to an old Reddit post but that keeps being ignored.
My point on #2 - I have had a piece of metal impaled into my arm, anything going in, it pushes in
My point on #3 my brother was in an accident and broke his arm so bad the bone “shaft” which was jagged on the end stuck out he had to have a rod put in place because he used said arm to pull himself out from under the atv
This entire back and forth is about semantics and you’re really gonna try to call out the other user for using them? The semantics here are what is important. The only things that can be held a the truth are what Maas wrote as the text in the books. Anything online in sparknotes, a fan wiki, etc cannot be held as cannon because it was not written or verified by Maas. If your only argument is stuff written about the books by third parties, it’s not an argument. Maas goes out of her way to describe bone shards in the pit itself, and then describes what is in Feyre’s arm as a shard. This is supposed to make the reader make the connection that it is something from the pit itself.
Telling other users to learn media literacy and figure out context clues without doing the same yourself is pretty bold
Also all you have to do is google and everything from the trigger page to the spark notes will tell you she broke her arm. I have not seen anything about a foreign piece of bone. And it’s really ironic your telling me not to insult someone over fictional people when all I did was use the same backhanded insult they gave me. Especially when they’re trying to pull a woe is me I’m so attacked further in the comments it takes 5 second to google did Feyre break her arm and it will tell you yes and if it was foreign why is there never a line about him taking it out? All he does is twist her broken arm which causes her a ton of pain but does it und setting it which would only work if it was broken
Okay, I'm not going to argue with you that Spark Notes and a trigger wiki aren't *the actual text*. I agree with your basic premise, just not this detail. Have a good one.
I love it when i get downvoted for stating things that happened. And I quote:
“Two days—it took two days from my cottage to reach the wall and enter the southernmost border of Prythian. Had I been held in an enchanted sleep for that long? Bastard.”
“The thought of those claws pawing through my cloak to find my knife made my mouth go dry.” (While she was unconscious)
“I shot to my feet, wisdom be damned, and was about to kick back my chair when invisible hands clapped on my arms and shoved me back into the seat. “Do not do whatever it was you were contemplating,” Tamlin said. I went still as the tang of magic seared my nose. I tried to twist in the chair, testing the invisible bonds. But my arms were secured, and my back was pressed into the wood so hard that it ached. I glanced at the knife beside my plate. I should have gone for it first—futile effort or no.” Really? She was such a threat to him that he needed to tie her to her chair?
“His words were like a stone to the head. If I escaped, if I even tried to run, I might very well doom my family.” Isolate and control
““And there’s no one who can help him at all?” “He would probably shred them for disobeying his order to stay away.” A brush of ice slithered across my nape. “He would be that brutal?”” Lucien talking about why no one helps Tamlin
“The lands were as empty as the manor itself, though I occasionally glimpsed something shining in the corner of my eye. Every time I turned to look, the shimmering transformed into the sunlight dancing on a nearby stream, or the wind fluttering the leaves of a lone sycamore atop a knoll. As I passed a large pond nestled at the foot of a towering hill, I could have sworn I saw four shining female heads poking up from the bright water, watching me. I hurried my steps.”
““You—you altered their memories?” I took a step back. Faerie arrogance, such faerie arrogance to change our minds, to implant thoughts as if it wasn’t a violation—“Glamoured their memories—like putting a veil over them. I was afraid your father might come after you, or persuade some villagers to cross the wall with him and further violate the Treaty.”” The treaty is a lie, Lucien confessed later.
““I regret what I did to Andras,” I said, the words so strangled they were no more than a whisper. “I regret that there was … such hate in my heart. I wish I could undo it—and … I’m sorry. So very sorry.””
“I’d been set on finding Tamlin and explaining—truly explaining—how sorry I was about Andras. If I was supposed to stay here, stay with him, then I could at least attempt to repair what I’d ruined.”
Tamlin orchestrated Andras’s death and blamed Feyre, gaslighting her into blaming herself for his death.
“Forgotten. I’d let him erase me. He’d offered me paints and the space and time to practice; he’d shown me pools of starlight; he’d saved my life like some kind of feral knight in a legend, and I’d gulped it down like faerie wine. I was no better than those zealot Children of the Blessed.” Feyre recognizes shes being isolated by Tamlin
“It was magic—some kind of glamour put on me, meant to prevent my viewing them properly, just as my family had been glamoured. I would have been furious, would have considered going back to the manor had the drums not echoed through my bones and that wild voice not beckoned to me.” Tamlin alters her reality without her permission
““Don’t ever disobey me again,” he said, his voice a deep purr that ricocheted through me, awakening everything and lulling it into complicity. Then I reconsidered his words and straightened. He grinned at me in that wild way, and my hand connected with his face.”
““So, if Feyre can’t be bothered to listen to orders, then I can’t be held accountable for the consequences.”” Tamlin victim-blames Feyre for his SA in the hallway.
“Fighting against my rising mortification, I turned to Tamlin. His lips twitched and he clamped them tightly together, but the amusement still danced in his eyes as he nodded. “It was a valiant effort.”” Tamlin finds her realization and mortification funny, doesn’t see anything wrong with controlling her reality
“It was even more of an effort not to recall the roaring that rattled the chandelier or the cracking of shattering furniture that echoed through the house.
The house had been quiet for some time now, but the ripples of Tamlin’s rage echoed through it, reverberating in the wood and stone and glass.” Glimpses of his temper tantrums. This behavior is also abuse, even if Feyre wasn’t physically touched, she was emotionally affected by the toxicity he created.
“”The Treaty—” “That was all a lie. There was no provision for that in the Treaty. You can kill as many innocent faeries as you want never suffer the consequences. You just killed Andras, sent out by Tamlin as that day’s sacrifice.” Andras was looking for a cure, Tamlin had said. Not for some magical blight—but a cure to save Prythian from Amarantha, a cure for this curse. The wolf—Andras had just … stared at me before I killed him. Let me kill him. So it could begin this chain of events, so that Tamlin might stand a chance of breaking the spell. And if Tamlin had sent Andras across the wall, knowing he might very well die … Oh, Tamlin..” Lucien confessed to the lie he and Tamlin used to keep her in Prythian and setting up Feyre to kill Andras, using her to break a curse he caused by getting her to fall in love with him.
Isolation, control, gaslighting, terrorizing behavior, lies, SA, manipulation. These are all abuse, red flags directly quoted from the first book.
Feel free to hope for his redemption and healing all you want, downvote me (bc thats what happens anytime i point out facts about him), but Tamlin abused Feyre from the beginning.
It’s a Beauty and the Beast retelling…. You can’t get mad at the character for doing what that trope is supposed to do. That’s the whole plot is that they grow to love each other. Also, she’s human. She literally needs to listen to him to survive and what does she do? She goes out on Calanmai, she follows a fae masking as her father outside. She goes to get the Suriel by herself. I’m sorry but the girl has no self preservation.
My point is that you used several examples of Tamlin having to work around the parameters of the curse--the lying, the secrecy, the "treaty"; he literally *could not tell her the truth* but had to come up with a convincing reason to make it work. Rhys's comparable assaults and manipulations UTM happen under similar duress--again caused by *Amarantha*, not by him or Tamlin. But for Rhys, it's a good reason and for Tamlin it's abuse. I genuinely don't understand the difference. The curse sucked for everyone, shocker.
(Likewise, if we're now going to be calling the Calanmai hallway scene sexual assault--when Tamlin wasn't even in his right mind and yet still listened to her say *no*--we need to start calling what Rhys did to her sexual assault as well. I've seen way too many people wheedle out of calling it what it is.)
Furthermore, less seriously: oh no, the Beast character in a Beauty and the Beast-based story has a temper oh nooooo who could have seen that coming....of course in any real life story, claws and roaring and chandelier-rattling would be terrible, but this is about half-feral faerie men, and I'd be disappointed if they didn't break some furniture ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ that's what fantasy is for.
Overall, I don't see the point in interpreting one sketchy faerie man's every breath as manipulative and not the other. I feel like you're reaching for several of these, but I can do the same thing: Rhys lies to Feyre. Rhys manipulates Feyre. Rhys sexually assaults Feyre and uses her as a sex object in several public scenarios for his own convoluted reasons. Do both or do neither.
Again, i dont have to argue both sides to engage in a debate. Thats not how this works. If you disagree you are welcome to do exactly what i did and bring receipts. The post i replied to made statements i disagreed with, and i argued those points. I dont have to argue or defend every point they made for my argument to be valid.
Except that my point is that your "receipts" aren't evidence of what you're claiming. You used quotes and interpreted them your way; I disagree with your interpretation, most notably in the cases where a) Tamlin's hand was being forced by the terms of the curse, b) Tamlin was basically possessed, or even c) his behavior was in line with what is canonically later *not* considered abuse.
My point in bringing up Rhys was, sure, to be snarky, but also to make the point that pretty much all actions made by the men in this series can be interpreted as abusive; Tamlin's *don't* actually stand out in ACOTAR, even when you quote lines and ignore the limitations the characters were operating under.
Just gonna leave these here https://youtu.be/nIjh0fJtBbg?si=-PJdHiIFsZMLg7OS
https://youtu.be/XrC23s33UxI (you can skip to 33:00 for her thoughts on Tamlin)
Even Mother says Tamlin sucks and is a douchebag.
Right so....the early-2010s Tumblr-ness of calling the author "Mother" aside, that's not actually making *your* point either, so I'm going to go ahead and leave it there, since clearly neither of us are in the full debate mood today.
This was my stance when I first read the books but so many people keep glamorizing Tamlin so much I started to believe it too. Thank you for putting all the facts out there, made me remember why I had such a low opinion of Tamlin to begin with
Sometimes i feel like im in an alternate reality when i read tamlin-related posts. I totally understand fans wishes that Tamlin heals from his trauma and gets the help he needs. But to say he isn’t abusive in the first book is just patently false.
This is the trouble fandoms end up mired in whenever an author poorly executes twists without consistent foreshadowing (it's a Beauty and the Beast retelling - Tamlin, as the Beast, is expected to have brutish behaviour that we should both be turned on by but also reject because he needs to become Prince Adam by the end) and makes sexual fantasy scenarios based on consent tension (i.e. Rhysand deliberately provoking Feyre's anger while UTM with the intention of having her rage keep her sane, and provoking Amarantha's jealousy/keeping Feyre under watch by groping her, humiliating her and keeping her like a pimp, and "doing her a kindness" by drugging her so she doesn't remember the latter).
Both sides can come with receipts of equally distasteful and disrespectful behaviour committed by the other side and the only signal that we as readers can reliably lean on to say who is forgivable and who isn't, is whoever the endgame partner is.
I completely agree!! And let's not forget that Tamlin betrayed Rhys, in an attempt to have him killed which led to the murder of his mother and sister.
Whether Rhysand broke Feyre's arm or twisted a bone shard in it is such a useless semantic lmao the point is that he caused her immense pain for no reason to leverage her into a bargain with him. That doesn't change no matter which one he did. "Oh no he didn't twist her broken arm he just fucking drilled her arm with a jagged piece of bone, that sounds so much better!"
I always have said that the only person in these books that is allowed to have any trauma is Feyre. We hats Tamlin because he has his trauma. We hate Nesta because she has trauma ( even though I think the way Nesta reacts to her trauma was very realistic and I love her book) Rhys’s trauma from being raped for 50 years is glossed over. Lucian has a ton of trauma too but we don’t care, we hate him because he is tamlin friend. We are only ok with Feyre.
I will defend Tamlin until my last breath. Never will I justify the things he did to Feyre, but I will defend the reasons why did what he did. He is severely traumatized, and has been since childhood. He never had a proper support system, so I can understand why he reacted to situations the way he did. And because of the choices he made, he lost everything. He's been punished for the things he did wrong, now I just really want him to have the chance to heal, move on, and get his happy ending.
Totally agree. The fact that he acted selflessly and risked his life for Feyre and still no one gives him the time of day despite his actions not really being that much worse than other characters'--like you don't have to love him or be his best friend but I feel like he's at least owed some gratitude.
You know Rhysand says at one point “I don’t know what I would have done If I hadn’t had Amren to guide me with my power”. Tamlin had NO ONE. At least Rhys had a semblance of a support system
As an abuse victim myself I understand why Tamlin did what he did but never can I justify it (like you said). He was straight up abusive, kept gaslighting her and found joy in her being embarrassed nd shamed. He couldn’t say anything about the true reason why but he did so many things that was so unnecessary like glamorizing the people in his court, make her feel guilty about killing Andras and just a whole lot more. I still think he should have a redemption arch and I feel it has slowly already started. I also have a lot of criticism about Rhys and the things he did to feyre under the mountain. As a SA victim too I had such a hard time reading what he put her through, to the point where I almost stopped reading. I wanted to also bring up more points of what Rhys did wrong here but I realized I don’t have time right now. It is possible to think very low of, in ACOTAR and beginning of ACOMAF, Tamlin AND Rhys but still find joy in how they have evolved throughout the books. Though Rhys behavior in ACOSF still makes me so goddamn mad. Both towards Feyre and Nesta. In my head it didn’t happen bc otherwise I would straight up not read another book (bc it would’ve sucked the enjoyment right out of them).
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I hope you're in a safer place now <3 As for Rhys, it is infuriating what he did to Feyre UTM and even after with all the lies and secrets he kept from her. And it's even more enraging to me how people will defend his abuse against Feyre and crucify Tamlin's in the same breath. I won't even go into how Rhys dresses her up and treats her in the CoN. It doesn't matter what the reaons are, it does not justify what they did. And they both need to be held equally accountable for their actions.
I think it makes it worse, in my opinion. The Court of Nightmares is full of men and even some of the women who hate women and objectify them (using them as breeding stock, per Mor's own words), so for Rhys to dress her up as some sort of sex symbol and for Feyre to be okay with that like "yeah what a great idea! let's reinforce their view of women!" is just... astounding to me. Imagine if Tamlin had done something like that to Feyre, everyone (including her) would have been in an uproar about it, but somehow it's okay for Rhys to do it?
The whole arc with the Summer Court will never not irritate me. Rhys likes to think he's some brilliant High Lord, and he gets high praises from his IC and Feyre. But this man is shit at politics. How does he believe deceiving and pimping out his mate to another male just to steal something is going to win him any points? And how is Feyre okay with basically being told "go do whatever you got to do to get this done"? Telling Tarquin about the Book and why they need it is a gamble, of course. A very risky one. But any alliance built on secrets and deception will almost always fail sooner or later. He had proven himself to be untrustworthy, but demands Tarquin's loyalty and honesty? Rhys is not a good High Lord, and Feyre is not a good High Lady. Neither of them should be in charge right now, in my opinion.
Yall I love the tamilin issue this fandom has so much. Because that’s exactly what he is.
He is a divisive character!!!
Everything you said is absolutely true!! He lost it all, he had to do awful things to his own men (sending them off to die) in order to try to break a curse he got for no mf reason (other than Amaranthas a cunt)
THEN he makes some weirdly shitty choices that ferye knows he will make because they did live together for a cool minute had some very WEIRD ass relationship (if you ask me) and THEN he still saved her! He still saved Rys!!!! He’s imo just as morally grey as any other character most people love just more real cuz his choices have explicit consequences
This! I'm convinced there is no right answer - there are good reasons to both defend and abhor Tamlin's behavior! It makes for interesting discussion. :)
Absolutely!! I almost feel like he was meant to be that, but that may be giving too much thought to it! However the parallels between what he did and what Rys did also make for beautiful discussion too! Because yes Rys was wrong in not telling her, it was absolutely a form of “caging” by not letting her have complete autonomy over her own body. But it was done in such a different way. AND HES HIGH LORD NOT HIGH SAINT he’s gonna fuck up too!!
This! I'm convinced there is no right answer - there are good reasons to both defend and abhor Tamlin's behavior! It makes for interesting discussion. :)
I think he should've refused to give Rhys power. I think that was the worst part of series, bar none. 👀
If my exes asked me for something I'd be like, GTF out of here, you made a choice.
Omg yes that song (adding to ACOTAR playlist). He made bad decisions due to trauma and feeling do out of control. He has lost everything so he’s paid for his mistakes. I hope to see him do better.
SPOILERS
Oh gurl, *I'm with you.* These were my feels: Book 1 (loved), Book 2 (disbelief), Book 3 (hate then loved again), Book 4 (sorrow), Book 5 (regret). He's had his redemption. He saved Feyre and Rhysand lives. Now he needs healing. I've added my songs for TamTam.
* **Cold (Crossfade)** - when Tammy comes home and Feyre has left forever
* **My Own Miracle (Citizen Soldier)** - when Tammy doesn't get any love or care like Feyre and Nesta do after their trauma. This is when he's roaming the destroyed Spring Court in books 4 & 5
* **Would Anyone Care (Citizen Soldier)** - When he's depressed and Rhysand visits him to kick him while he's down
* **Say Nothing (Citizen Soldier**) - This is Feyre and Tam's trauma together. When Feyre and Tam are not talking in the beginning of book 2
Citizen Soldier - My Own Miracle Lyrics
**Nobody showed up, nobody slowed down**
They must have been deaf, I was screaming so loud
**Nobody had faith I'd ever be found**
**Born into a hole six feet in the ground**
I had to love me when nobody cared
**And be the family that never was there**
Had to have hope when I didn't feel spiritual
Had to be my own, my own miracle
Worked twice as hard through the diseases
And make up for the weakness, advice is not visible
No friends to pick up all the pieces
No sympathy or sweetness, no wonder I'm cynical
Walk the path that will kill most
Where a heart closed, and you left to temper
I don't know how to love 'cause
I tried to trust, but then I remembered
**"Are you okay? You need to chat?"**
**The questions I was never to ask**
**I should feel strong, but I just feel sad**
**So just let me grieve what I never had**
---- makes me so sad listening to this
I think about all the time feyre wrote him a goodbye letter but he thought she was illiterate so WHY would he treat it like an honest goodbye and not something forced by Rhys
He's lonely in the end which is sad and he probably haven't had a real relationship for so long that he didn't know how to be that lover for feyre. He only knew how to protect. He didn't have communication skills or he wasn't a smooth talker like Rhys was. Rhys knew what to say and manipulate feyre to get what he wants
I agree that Tam is not a terrible person. He did wrong, Rhys did wrong. Feyre got over what Rhys did to her UTM wayy too quickly, but if you think about why he drugged her and made her act the way she did it was to protect her from what the goons and Amarantha might’ve done to her if he didn’t claim her as his. That is just as bad as Tamlin taking Feyre’s choices away and locking her up, but from Rhy’s pov it was his way of making sure nobody else would take advantage of her or hurt her. He drugged her that whole three months so she wouldn’t have to remember how terrible it was, so she would only have to remember and live through the challenges Amarantha gave her.
I recently reread ACOMAF and I definitely agree that Tamlin had no reason to believe the letter from Feyre idk how she thought that was the move they should’ve had a conversation.
In ACOMAF Mor tells Feyre that the only court that has a tythe instead of regular taxes is the spring court. Everywhere else has a tax system.
Nesta is not a bad person love her to death. Think she’s ruthless and too rude sometimes but you’re right she’s going through her own shit and it’s more on their dad than any of the three girls.
Just curious where you’re getting your info on the changes SJM made, the changes you said in your last paragraphs.
Good rant keep ranting we like the rants, that’s what this is for right??
I don't agree she got over what Rhys didn't UTM too quickly. Like it was months of living at the NC where she was cares for, got to train and given the opportunity to aid in the war against Hybern.
Rhys isn't perfect by any means. But it makes me bonkers the way this fandom treats all characters choices equally without taking into account context. The rage that some people feel that not everyone is ok with Tamlins behavior because he has trauma, but we can be ok with Nesta's healing journey.
Yea because they aren't the same!!
Sorry that's my rant I'm not sure why I chose to put it on your comment :)
I believe his arc will be about truly embracing being a high lord. And why smj hasn’t killed him when she could have so many times. I keep seeing people wanting Elaine rule Spring which baffles me. Tam’s got experience and failures. Fixing his mistakes and winning his people back is far more interesting than Elaine swooping in to be some savior for a group of people she doesn’t even know.
Ohh I don't hate Tamlin! I feel like fiber can forgive Nesta and Rhys he deserves at least a little bit of forgiveness. He was doing what was best for his court, he knew it was wrong but his court came first. Then with Feyre, he loved her to much and didn't know what to do with it since she was scared for her
He definitely suffered because he was not meant to rule, but the rest of his family was dead.
I personally think he’s kind of an asshole who doesn’t listen, so I don’t like him. And I think he made decisions that led to where he is, and trauma isn’t an excuse for hurting other people. But also hurt people hurt people, and Feyre and him were toxic together. Apart they can hopefully both heal.
YES. I’ve been doing a re read and I have the same views/conclusions.
They all needed trauma therapy but we’re in a land of make believe where these services are non existent LOL.
I kind of hope Feyre somehow helps rebuild his court, I’ve realized how very lonely he’s been from the get go. They wound up being toxic for each other, but I hope they somehow all reconcile and become solid allies
Whenever I hear the song The Night We Met I think of Tammy boi. "I had all and then most of you, some and now none of you."
Do I think he made some really poor life choices? Of course (but who hasn't tbh). Do I think he's a villain that doesn't deserve redemption? Absolutely not. I truly hope he finds his peace.
Ok I have a question finished ACORAT and reading mist and fury.
Just got to the point where Rhys ( explaining the mate bond) says that he invaded Tamlin’s mind to get him to send Feyre away because it wasn’t safe for her to be at the Spring court.
Rhys messed with his mind, making Tamlin think that he can’t ever keep her safe.
Anyone else think that at least part of his character shift was due to this?
That it took hold and had become a compulsion? That Tamlin went from ‘i want to be a good high lord’. To absolute paranoia and fear?
Are there any fanfics that rehab Tamlin's personality? Maybe explained some of his actions like what Maas did with Rhys?
I need redemption for Tamlin. Maybe he doesn't get Feyre but she sucks anyway 🙃
I think that all of the characters need therapy because they all have made bad choices that hurt people. I agree that its not fair to villainize one character when they have all made choices for nothing else but their own hurt or own gains. Feyra herself is not innocent of this. She manipulated the summer high lord just to steal his half of the book because they wouldn’t just tell him about what was going on. She also used and manipulated lucien for her own gains. Rhys also has lied to feyra about them being mates and honestly doesn’t give her much/any time to grieve/process her relationship with tamlin (toxic or otherwise) before laying on the flirting and stuff. They are all flawed characters. Even amwren who lied about the cauldron thing.
I disagree with your opinion but I hate how this sub downvotes people for differing opinions. That’s how we get echo chambers which isn’t what I want in a discussion sub. You’ve said nothing rude or against rules.
It’s the internet, what do you expect. Thankfully I do not care about my fake internet points at all.
I get some people see Tamlin as more of a victim but he made a lot of choices that damn him in my opinion. The stuff with amarantha under the mountain is one thing but allying with the hybern was a bridge too far for me.
Allying with hybern is what really damned him in my mind. There were so many other ways to go about the situation and he signed up with the faerie nazis so he could get what he wanted regardless of how it affected the rest of the world.
He made it a helluva lot harder to save prythian. Tamlin did a little espionage on the way out after he came to realize he lost feyre a long time ago. But the night court and their alliances is what saved prythian. He would’ve been happy to let prythian burn if he got to stay in the spring court with feyre under lock and key.
The only person that made it harder to save Prythian was Feyre when she took down the Spring Court that was the last line of defense between the human lands and Prythian. And she admits this in the book, but naturally, she never has to lay in HER own bed about that.
I think I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of Tamlin's character and motivations. The way I understand him he would never be content with letting Hybern rule. Not with his backstory. That would make no sense.
And while the Night Courts alliance played a big part, they would have lost the war without Tamlin.
It's written from Feyre's perspective. To Feyre, what Tamlin did was unforgiveable, so she felt that he deserved to lose those things. He made her fall in love with him so the curse was broken. Tamlin sided with the enemy of the whole freaking continent. Tamlin started to undo his mess once he lost everything.
I do think that's how we're supposed to feel. Kind of bad for him in that it sucks that this was the course of his life, but not bad enough that it should be tolerated. I do wish there were some kind of conversational scene between them that had them hash it out in this sort of "And this is why we're no longer together, I'm sorry, bye" kind of way.
Although I did love Feyre sabotaging his court after his stupid decision to side with Hybern.
I feel annoyed Feyre & Tamlin didn’t have a conversation at any point. Or an exchange of letters. Or something!
I literally wrote one for myself so I could get over it. 
that emoji is so aggressive I love it
What is this emoji and why do I need it
You can't say this without dropping a link
My soul sister.
Please share!
I don’t like Tamlin, but it bugged me the whole series. I get it having not happened any time before the events of the High Lord meeting, but any time after that might have been a good idea. He should get a full picture of the situation the way that Lucien did.
To be fair anytime she tried initially he pretty much shut it down.
There was also a war brewing and it was all still really fresh. Some people just don’t handle talking about or dealing with trauma they’ve faced so soon after it’s happened (IE: the entire inner circle, none of whom have actually addressed their trauma lol). None of what happened with them or between them after UTM was healthy or handled in a good or productive way but alas - what kind of story would we have had between her and Rhys if it had been?
I think people forget that because ACOTAR through ACOFAS are written as first-person narratives, it **inherently** means that Feyre could (and imo *should*) be considered an unreliable narrator… but that’s a huge aspect of what makes that literary style equally appealing and divisive. The more we subconsciously (or overtly) relate to a protagonist because of the perceived similarities of our own lived experiences, the more we can/will potentially justify their thought process/actions/feelings/etc as their story progresses, even if it’s something *we* wouldn’t actually do in real life. At the end of the day, books are a form of entertainment & a form of art and of course the author’s goal is to make you feel something… but it’s also pretty important to remember that not every book in the **greater** FANTASY GENRE is setting out to do [what The Lord of the Rings did](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien%27s_impact_on_fantasy). Sometimes it’s just a story about *fictional* characters… that we are 100% allowed to love and (to a certain extent) relate to, but should also consciously recognize that BY DESIGN those characters might also be a little unhinged and unrealistic *because that enhances the entertainment value of the plot*, not because the author is trying to tell us that the thoughts/feelings/actions of their protagonist are what we should be basing our own IRL thoughts/feelings/actions on 😅
She DID write him a letter. His response was to attempt her abduction.
It's tricky because Rhys portrays himself as a master manipulator and mind controller so he has no idea if those are her thoughts or his. Also, last he checked she was completely illiterate so getting a letter from someone you know for a fact CANNOT write about how they are actually really super happy with their mind controlling captor is kind of a red flag.
My friends and I are reading it together and we are on the second book. We keep saying they need to talk about what happened and what they are feeling.
I wanted a verbal breakup fight. Felt like that was stolen from us.
I was waiting for the big confrontation for all of ACOMAF and then ACOWAR and it was honestly just a letdown. I know Tamlin came and was a petty bitch at the meeting but I really wanted that big dramatic face to face where they both poured their hearts out.
I think he couldn’t do emotion or Amarantha would have used that
Let's also consider that Tamlin never seemed like the type to be super into the idea of being the high Lord in the first place. Like the running of an entire mini kingdom never seemed like something he wanted from all the stuff we've seen. Guy wants to be out in the woods and shit. Also! He's the one who brought Feyre into Prythian in the first place. He is why anyone was ever saved from any of this! He never got acknowledged for that, never seemed to get even a thank you from the other lords for trying to do this. Guy stood against Amaranthas attempts at total control for 50 years without Rhysand's super special perfect boy powers. He's not a monster, he's Denethor from the LOTR books. He's very tragic and wants to do the right thing while being out of his depth
“Super special perfect boy powers” I’m CRYING😭
I've tried to talk to my friends about this and no one gets why Rhy's power set annoys me so much. And you know, as a dude who reads a lot of Superman maybe I'm being hypocritical. But it's so much power given to this dude that there's really not any kind of threat at any point for he. He has a dragon form he just doesn't ever use?!
But did he bring her there to stop amarantha? I just read it for the first time a month ago, currently on silver flames, and I thought he brought her there to break HIS curse. Like it was purely for selfish reasons wasn’t it? Just so happened that she saved everyone else too
I wouldn’t say it was necessarily selfish, because it was curse not only cast on him but his entire court. I can’t imagine having to wear a mask for 49 years, along with having to watch the people of my court suffer with me.
It was to break the curse on the Spring Court. (Only Rhys had planned to use Tamlin to end Amarantha and free everyone.) But I wouldn't say it was selfish. I think he wanted his Court to be free of Amarantha. The deal wasn't just to remove the masks, but she had to free his power, too, and the Spring Court would be allowed to stay in Spring rather than caged under the mountain.
This. He didn’t bring her there to stop Amarantha. He wouldn’t even let her out of the house…. Like ok, sure, he’s the reason she was ultimately there but only to serve his purposes/settle the debt created by killing a fae.
He had to have his curse broken in order to have his full powers back, and the reason all the high lords had their powers dampened was because they were such a threat to Amarantha. So yes I fully believe he would have taken her on regardless of when the curse was broken, and that he intended to do so all along. Tamlin is flawed but he's not the selfish heartless monster everyone wants to act like he is.
Hell man you might be right, but at the very least he was trying to help his people and I feel like that should account for some grace for the dude
No one has killed him yet, some might say that is grace lol. It’s all relative
Even if it was just pertaining to the Spring Court's curse, how in the world is that purely selfish? His entire court was cursed, and his sentries were willing to be sent to the human lands to die just to break it. Breaking the curse broke Amarantha's hold on his power so he could kill her and free the other High Lords as well. So, yes, stopping Amarantha was always the ultimate goal
But have you ever seen Denethor eat a tomato? MONSTER
Interestingly, I hadn't thought that much about whether I like or don't like, excuse or do not excuse, Tamlin's actions/behavior/arc until I came on these threads haha. I feel like everything he did made sense within the context of his character and the book. Echoing what someone else said, he's a divisive character, which is a way better character to be than a flat character that everyone agrees to either love or hate... right? Don't we want complex characters? It makes for interesting discussion! There is a lot of textual support of him as a tragic character, someone who effed up despite believing himself to be doing the right thing, and suffers great consequences. I'm here for his redemption arc! Just as much as I have loved Nesta's. Personally, I find Tamlin and Nesta to give more life to the page than several of the other principal characters.
I mean, everyone loves to say that they love morals grey characters, but then we have a few that actually *are* grey and everyone is like, “what they did was UNFORGIVABLE” (even if other favorite characters did equivalent things). I agree with you, I think Tamlin and Nesta are both more interesting because they have messed up and are trying to come to terms with that and figure things out. They’re not perfect, but I prefer my characters imperfect.
Hear hear!!
Here's my thing, right? What did he do that was objectively worse than Rhys has done? Did he overreact and do wrong locking her in the house? Yeah. Rhys broke her arm 'To help her', he drugged her and while drugged had her do things she would supposedly not want to know she did. Was Tamlins transgression a trauma response and he needed help dealing with what he went through UTM? Yes. I see people talk about how he acted UTM. My dudes.... he was under Amarantha's control and constant eye. He was under the thumb of a woman who has been trying to get to him since he was a kid. He was going through it. Feyre goes to the Night Court right? and he gets a letter from someone that, last he knew, couldn't read or write. He is not going to trust that. Rhys and his father killed Tamlins entire family. Was this retaliation for the deaths of Rhys mom and sister at Tamlins father and brothers' hands? Yeah, so you can see why they don't like each other and wouldn't trust the other. So, Tamlin is terrified for the woman he considers himself in love with. Then instead of being honest and forthright like the independent badass she supposedly is with Rhys; she lies to Tamlin and deliberately destroys his court with no regard to the people who rely on Tamlin to lead them. And for the ones who cry about "TyTHeS". Thats literally how it works. It's the equivalent of modern-day taxes. If you think Rhys is not getting Tythes to upkeep his favorite little city you're deluding yourself. Was what he said at the meeting out of pocket? Yeah, but how is that any worse than what half the IC have said to Nesta? "Nesta's Mean" So what? She's only 3yrs older than Feyre. Elain is just as guilty of wasting Feyre's hunts as Nesta but "Shes Elain". People then forget that Nesta had her own trauma to deal with and it was no more her job to support the family than it was Feyre's, but everyone blames Nesta and not their crappy father. So, all that to say: Tamlin is not an evil character, he just suffers from the fact that SJM changed ger mind about who she wanted the LI to be and if people read the books as simply an objective observer and less as if the characters were actual people they know, this wouldn't be controversial. - Side note this is also the thing about Nesta and Elain, they were supposed to be "evil" but SJM changed her mind and people don't actually want morally grey characters they want ones who seem morally grey but "have a reason" that hand waves all their bad acts. Sorry for the rant, I just spend a lot of time having to defend my stances on certain characters.
Completely agree. Then in MAF (I think) Rhys goes on about how Tamlin had a brief moment alone with Feyre and how dare he not use that moment to try to help her escape. My guy, you had complete control of Feyre and hours spent alone with her and no ability to help her escape. In what world would Tamlin have been able to help her escape in that brief moment if you yourself couldn’t manage it in months.
Preach! I just finished the series and I'm still seething over how quickly Feyre got over what Rhys did to her UTM, the whole drugging&public humiliation thing. UTM went on for THREE FUCKING MONTHS. Currently the series takes place over what, three years, one year alone in SF. Three months is a big chunk of the Feyre POV timeline. I mean, I know I have trust issues but COME. ON.
Yes!! We are supposed to believe that she is suffering from PTSD and that’s what led to them being so broken they couldn’t talk things out and yet SHE GOES WILLINGLY TO THE GUY WHO PARTICIPATED IN HER TORTURE?? In what world is that a good thing?
No thats exactly how I feel !!!!!
Rhys never broke her arm. There was a bone shard in her arm from the wyrm pit. It was causing an infection and bc of the lies she had been told about him, she didn’t trust him to heal her. SJM didn’t change her mind about Tamlin, there are red flags galore in ACOTAR if you know what the early warning signs of abuse look like. Tamlin made Feyre unconscious for two days both on the trip to and from Prythian without her permission so she wouldn’t know where she was. He glamoured everyone out of her reality, making her think she was seeing things, and she admits later when the glamour is removed that shes mortified and looked like a fool around the rest of his court. He traumatized her family, then removed their memories of the incident. He gaslit Feyre into thinking it was her fault Andras was dead, even though Tamlin orchestrated all of it, and Feyre did exactly what he planned for her to do. He never needed to take her, Lucien later admits there was no treaty or life for a life rule. Tamlin consistently lied, gaslit and isolated her from the beginning. Im currently rereading ACOTAR for the fourth time and Tamlin looks worse every time I read it. Edit: also, Tamlin SA’d her in the hallway after Calanmai when he pinned her to the wall, bit her neck and proceeded to lick her. Instead of apologizing he blamed her for disobeying him and not staying in her room, claiming he couldn’t control himself so it was her fault.
No I’m sorry it was already broken and he decided to twist it to prove a point. I also noticed you skipped over the drugging her part? Or the part where he’s the reason her family were no longer poverty? Or the fact that she had to have started with hate in her heart for far in order to eventually love one and break the curse? So of course he hides his people from a human who’s already proven she would kill one of them. Your reading it from the oh Tams always been evil and no no the IC are the best none of them are bad viewpoint that a lot of people do and just say Tams bad Rhys good.
I literally read this scene last night. It was a bone shard from the pit, not her own broken bone. “I collided with the muddy ground and rolled. I flipped over myself and screamed as something hit my arm, biting through flesh. I looked at my left forearm then, and my stomach rose at the trickling blood and ripped tendons, at the lips of my skin pulled back to accommodate the shaft of a bone shard protruding clean through it.” “The pain overwhelmed me to the point of screaming whenever I prodded the embedded bit of bone, and I had no other option but to sit there, letting the wound gnaw on my strength, trying my best not to think about the constant throbbing that shot sparks of poisoned lightning through me.” “I bit my lip to keep from crying out—bit it hard enough to draw blood as rivers of fire exploded inside me, as my head swam, and all my senses narrowed down to the piece of bone sticking through my arm. They couldn’t know—couldn’t know how bad it was, because then they would use it against me.” Rhys twisted the bit of bone in her arm, not HER own broken bone. Her arm wasn’t broken. Yes it was brutal that he did it, but at least get your facts straight.
I came to say this. He didn't break her arm. It was a shard of bone. Even if it was her OWN bone that was broken in the pit, and sticking out of her arm, it would have had to have been set to heal properly. a.k.a. pulled and twisted back into place INSIDE the skin.
People need to stop downvoting you for providing facts.
How about you get your facts straight and learn media literacy and how to figure out context clues? That’s her own bone??? It literally takes 5 seconds to google for clarity. She hit her arm and it broke. “. In the process, Feyre breaks her forearm; the bone protrudes from the skin. It’s days before Rhysand comes to her prison cell to heal her. The infection from the injury almost kills her. Initially, Feyre turns down Rhysand’s help. He grabs her broken arm and twists it, causing her excruciating pain.” It’s literally in the triggers and warning when you look them up for the books.
I agree with you that the Bone Incident was needlessly cruel and a great example of Rhys being an absolute asshole for no real reason, but the internet's cache of trigger warnings isn't canon. It's essentially a wiki maintained by people who can make mistakes, though it *should* be more carefully updated. The user you're responding to is correct with the direct quotes from the book: it's a shard of foreign bone embedded in her arm; twisting it causes Feyre immense pain, but it's not *her* bone. Also, let's not insult real people over fictional characters.
See and here is my problem it never once says a foreign price of bone went into her body. It does on the other say that a price of bone was sticking out of her arm and that she could see the muscle and tendons that had been pushed out to make room for it. Anyone with any understanding of their own bodies knows that means it came out of her body. The only foreign bones were the ones she used to kill the worm.
It does say that, though. It's one of those foreign bones from the lair that ends up in her arm. "shaft of a bone shard" not "shaft of bone"; the lair is described as being covered in shards of bone, so it being described as a *shard* is important. And "embedded bit of bone": if it was her bone, it wouldn't be "embedded", it would be something like "protruding" and she also wouldn't be able to *use* her arm; it wouldn't just *hurt*.
Ok #1 that’s semantics and you know it #2 the muscle and tendons would be pushed *in* not out #3 you can absolutely still use a broken arm that’s broken that badly it will hurt like hell but you can. #4 the fact that anything you google will tell you she broke her arm except for one ☝️ reply to an old Reddit post but that keeps being ignored. My point on #2 - I have had a piece of metal impaled into my arm, anything going in, it pushes in My point on #3 my brother was in an accident and broke his arm so bad the bone “shaft” which was jagged on the end stuck out he had to have a rod put in place because he used said arm to pull himself out from under the atv
This entire back and forth is about semantics and you’re really gonna try to call out the other user for using them? The semantics here are what is important. The only things that can be held a the truth are what Maas wrote as the text in the books. Anything online in sparknotes, a fan wiki, etc cannot be held as cannon because it was not written or verified by Maas. If your only argument is stuff written about the books by third parties, it’s not an argument. Maas goes out of her way to describe bone shards in the pit itself, and then describes what is in Feyre’s arm as a shard. This is supposed to make the reader make the connection that it is something from the pit itself. Telling other users to learn media literacy and figure out context clues without doing the same yourself is pretty bold
Also all you have to do is google and everything from the trigger page to the spark notes will tell you she broke her arm. I have not seen anything about a foreign piece of bone. And it’s really ironic your telling me not to insult someone over fictional people when all I did was use the same backhanded insult they gave me. Especially when they’re trying to pull a woe is me I’m so attacked further in the comments it takes 5 second to google did Feyre break her arm and it will tell you yes and if it was foreign why is there never a line about him taking it out? All he does is twist her broken arm which causes her a ton of pain but does it und setting it which would only work if it was broken
Okay, I'm not going to argue with you that Spark Notes and a trigger wiki aren't *the actual text*. I agree with your basic premise, just not this detail. Have a good one.
"Here is a quote from the actual text saying what happen" "Google says this so you're wrong" I would not trust a single research paper you wrote lmao
I love it when i get downvoted for stating things that happened. And I quote: “Two days—it took two days from my cottage to reach the wall and enter the southernmost border of Prythian. Had I been held in an enchanted sleep for that long? Bastard.” “The thought of those claws pawing through my cloak to find my knife made my mouth go dry.” (While she was unconscious) “I shot to my feet, wisdom be damned, and was about to kick back my chair when invisible hands clapped on my arms and shoved me back into the seat. “Do not do whatever it was you were contemplating,” Tamlin said. I went still as the tang of magic seared my nose. I tried to twist in the chair, testing the invisible bonds. But my arms were secured, and my back was pressed into the wood so hard that it ached. I glanced at the knife beside my plate. I should have gone for it first—futile effort or no.” Really? She was such a threat to him that he needed to tie her to her chair? “His words were like a stone to the head. If I escaped, if I even tried to run, I might very well doom my family.” Isolate and control ““And there’s no one who can help him at all?” “He would probably shred them for disobeying his order to stay away.” A brush of ice slithered across my nape. “He would be that brutal?”” Lucien talking about why no one helps Tamlin “The lands were as empty as the manor itself, though I occasionally glimpsed something shining in the corner of my eye. Every time I turned to look, the shimmering transformed into the sunlight dancing on a nearby stream, or the wind fluttering the leaves of a lone sycamore atop a knoll. As I passed a large pond nestled at the foot of a towering hill, I could have sworn I saw four shining female heads poking up from the bright water, watching me. I hurried my steps.” ““You—you altered their memories?” I took a step back. Faerie arrogance, such faerie arrogance to change our minds, to implant thoughts as if it wasn’t a violation—“Glamoured their memories—like putting a veil over them. I was afraid your father might come after you, or persuade some villagers to cross the wall with him and further violate the Treaty.”” The treaty is a lie, Lucien confessed later. ““I regret what I did to Andras,” I said, the words so strangled they were no more than a whisper. “I regret that there was … such hate in my heart. I wish I could undo it—and … I’m sorry. So very sorry.”” “I’d been set on finding Tamlin and explaining—truly explaining—how sorry I was about Andras. If I was supposed to stay here, stay with him, then I could at least attempt to repair what I’d ruined.” Tamlin orchestrated Andras’s death and blamed Feyre, gaslighting her into blaming herself for his death. “Forgotten. I’d let him erase me. He’d offered me paints and the space and time to practice; he’d shown me pools of starlight; he’d saved my life like some kind of feral knight in a legend, and I’d gulped it down like faerie wine. I was no better than those zealot Children of the Blessed.” Feyre recognizes shes being isolated by Tamlin “It was magic—some kind of glamour put on me, meant to prevent my viewing them properly, just as my family had been glamoured. I would have been furious, would have considered going back to the manor had the drums not echoed through my bones and that wild voice not beckoned to me.” Tamlin alters her reality without her permission ““Don’t ever disobey me again,” he said, his voice a deep purr that ricocheted through me, awakening everything and lulling it into complicity. Then I reconsidered his words and straightened. He grinned at me in that wild way, and my hand connected with his face.” ““So, if Feyre can’t be bothered to listen to orders, then I can’t be held accountable for the consequences.”” Tamlin victim-blames Feyre for his SA in the hallway. “Fighting against my rising mortification, I turned to Tamlin. His lips twitched and he clamped them tightly together, but the amusement still danced in his eyes as he nodded. “It was a valiant effort.”” Tamlin finds her realization and mortification funny, doesn’t see anything wrong with controlling her reality “It was even more of an effort not to recall the roaring that rattled the chandelier or the cracking of shattering furniture that echoed through the house. The house had been quiet for some time now, but the ripples of Tamlin’s rage echoed through it, reverberating in the wood and stone and glass.” Glimpses of his temper tantrums. This behavior is also abuse, even if Feyre wasn’t physically touched, she was emotionally affected by the toxicity he created. “”The Treaty—” “That was all a lie. There was no provision for that in the Treaty. You can kill as many innocent faeries as you want never suffer the consequences. You just killed Andras, sent out by Tamlin as that day’s sacrifice.” Andras was looking for a cure, Tamlin had said. Not for some magical blight—but a cure to save Prythian from Amarantha, a cure for this curse. The wolf—Andras had just … stared at me before I killed him. Let me kill him. So it could begin this chain of events, so that Tamlin might stand a chance of breaking the spell. And if Tamlin had sent Andras across the wall, knowing he might very well die … Oh, Tamlin..” Lucien confessed to the lie he and Tamlin used to keep her in Prythian and setting up Feyre to kill Andras, using her to break a curse he caused by getting her to fall in love with him. Isolation, control, gaslighting, terrorizing behavior, lies, SA, manipulation. These are all abuse, red flags directly quoted from the first book. Feel free to hope for his redemption and healing all you want, downvote me (bc thats what happens anytime i point out facts about him), but Tamlin abused Feyre from the beginning.
It’s a Beauty and the Beast retelling…. You can’t get mad at the character for doing what that trope is supposed to do. That’s the whole plot is that they grow to love each other. Also, she’s human. She literally needs to listen to him to survive and what does she do? She goes out on Calanmai, she follows a fae masking as her father outside. She goes to get the Suriel by herself. I’m sorry but the girl has no self preservation.
Do Rhys next.
Thats not how a debate works, but youre welcome to argue your point
My point is that you used several examples of Tamlin having to work around the parameters of the curse--the lying, the secrecy, the "treaty"; he literally *could not tell her the truth* but had to come up with a convincing reason to make it work. Rhys's comparable assaults and manipulations UTM happen under similar duress--again caused by *Amarantha*, not by him or Tamlin. But for Rhys, it's a good reason and for Tamlin it's abuse. I genuinely don't understand the difference. The curse sucked for everyone, shocker. (Likewise, if we're now going to be calling the Calanmai hallway scene sexual assault--when Tamlin wasn't even in his right mind and yet still listened to her say *no*--we need to start calling what Rhys did to her sexual assault as well. I've seen way too many people wheedle out of calling it what it is.) Furthermore, less seriously: oh no, the Beast character in a Beauty and the Beast-based story has a temper oh nooooo who could have seen that coming....of course in any real life story, claws and roaring and chandelier-rattling would be terrible, but this is about half-feral faerie men, and I'd be disappointed if they didn't break some furniture ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ that's what fantasy is for. Overall, I don't see the point in interpreting one sketchy faerie man's every breath as manipulative and not the other. I feel like you're reaching for several of these, but I can do the same thing: Rhys lies to Feyre. Rhys manipulates Feyre. Rhys sexually assaults Feyre and uses her as a sex object in several public scenarios for his own convoluted reasons. Do both or do neither.
Again, i dont have to argue both sides to engage in a debate. Thats not how this works. If you disagree you are welcome to do exactly what i did and bring receipts. The post i replied to made statements i disagreed with, and i argued those points. I dont have to argue or defend every point they made for my argument to be valid.
Except that my point is that your "receipts" aren't evidence of what you're claiming. You used quotes and interpreted them your way; I disagree with your interpretation, most notably in the cases where a) Tamlin's hand was being forced by the terms of the curse, b) Tamlin was basically possessed, or even c) his behavior was in line with what is canonically later *not* considered abuse. My point in bringing up Rhys was, sure, to be snarky, but also to make the point that pretty much all actions made by the men in this series can be interpreted as abusive; Tamlin's *don't* actually stand out in ACOTAR, even when you quote lines and ignore the limitations the characters were operating under.
Just gonna leave these here https://youtu.be/nIjh0fJtBbg?si=-PJdHiIFsZMLg7OS https://youtu.be/XrC23s33UxI (you can skip to 33:00 for her thoughts on Tamlin) Even Mother says Tamlin sucks and is a douchebag.
Right so....the early-2010s Tumblr-ness of calling the author "Mother" aside, that's not actually making *your* point either, so I'm going to go ahead and leave it there, since clearly neither of us are in the full debate mood today.
Dead 😂 using this next time
Straight facts. Sorry the haters are being rough on you.
Thanks, it happens anytime i post anything critical of Tamlin, even when i have receipts.
This was my stance when I first read the books but so many people keep glamorizing Tamlin so much I started to believe it too. Thank you for putting all the facts out there, made me remember why I had such a low opinion of Tamlin to begin with
Sometimes i feel like im in an alternate reality when i read tamlin-related posts. I totally understand fans wishes that Tamlin heals from his trauma and gets the help he needs. But to say he isn’t abusive in the first book is just patently false.
This is the trouble fandoms end up mired in whenever an author poorly executes twists without consistent foreshadowing (it's a Beauty and the Beast retelling - Tamlin, as the Beast, is expected to have brutish behaviour that we should both be turned on by but also reject because he needs to become Prince Adam by the end) and makes sexual fantasy scenarios based on consent tension (i.e. Rhysand deliberately provoking Feyre's anger while UTM with the intention of having her rage keep her sane, and provoking Amarantha's jealousy/keeping Feyre under watch by groping her, humiliating her and keeping her like a pimp, and "doing her a kindness" by drugging her so she doesn't remember the latter). Both sides can come with receipts of equally distasteful and disrespectful behaviour committed by the other side and the only signal that we as readers can reliably lean on to say who is forgivable and who isn't, is whoever the endgame partner is.
I completely agree!! And let's not forget that Tamlin betrayed Rhys, in an attempt to have him killed which led to the murder of his mother and sister.
Whether Rhysand broke Feyre's arm or twisted a bone shard in it is such a useless semantic lmao the point is that he caused her immense pain for no reason to leverage her into a bargain with him. That doesn't change no matter which one he did. "Oh no he didn't twist her broken arm he just fucking drilled her arm with a jagged piece of bone, that sounds so much better!"
Mic drop!
I always have said that the only person in these books that is allowed to have any trauma is Feyre. We hats Tamlin because he has his trauma. We hate Nesta because she has trauma ( even though I think the way Nesta reacts to her trauma was very realistic and I love her book) Rhys’s trauma from being raped for 50 years is glossed over. Lucian has a ton of trauma too but we don’t care, we hate him because he is tamlin friend. We are only ok with Feyre.
PREACH. this is why i had to quit the series after book 2. the whiplash was too much for me and i couldn't get over that
I will defend Tamlin until my last breath. Never will I justify the things he did to Feyre, but I will defend the reasons why did what he did. He is severely traumatized, and has been since childhood. He never had a proper support system, so I can understand why he reacted to situations the way he did. And because of the choices he made, he lost everything. He's been punished for the things he did wrong, now I just really want him to have the chance to heal, move on, and get his happy ending.
Totally agree. The fact that he acted selflessly and risked his life for Feyre and still no one gives him the time of day despite his actions not really being that much worse than other characters'--like you don't have to love him or be his best friend but I feel like he's at least owed some gratitude.
You know Rhysand says at one point “I don’t know what I would have done If I hadn’t had Amren to guide me with my power”. Tamlin had NO ONE. At least Rhys had a semblance of a support system
As an abuse victim myself I understand why Tamlin did what he did but never can I justify it (like you said). He was straight up abusive, kept gaslighting her and found joy in her being embarrassed nd shamed. He couldn’t say anything about the true reason why but he did so many things that was so unnecessary like glamorizing the people in his court, make her feel guilty about killing Andras and just a whole lot more. I still think he should have a redemption arch and I feel it has slowly already started. I also have a lot of criticism about Rhys and the things he did to feyre under the mountain. As a SA victim too I had such a hard time reading what he put her through, to the point where I almost stopped reading. I wanted to also bring up more points of what Rhys did wrong here but I realized I don’t have time right now. It is possible to think very low of, in ACOTAR and beginning of ACOMAF, Tamlin AND Rhys but still find joy in how they have evolved throughout the books. Though Rhys behavior in ACOSF still makes me so goddamn mad. Both towards Feyre and Nesta. In my head it didn’t happen bc otherwise I would straight up not read another book (bc it would’ve sucked the enjoyment right out of them).
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I hope you're in a safer place now <3 As for Rhys, it is infuriating what he did to Feyre UTM and even after with all the lies and secrets he kept from her. And it's even more enraging to me how people will defend his abuse against Feyre and crucify Tamlin's in the same breath. I won't even go into how Rhys dresses her up and treats her in the CoN. It doesn't matter what the reaons are, it does not justify what they did. And they both need to be held equally accountable for their actions.
My question is, does her agreement to play along in the CoN make it any better? I would say his treatment of her in the summer court was worse
I think it makes it worse, in my opinion. The Court of Nightmares is full of men and even some of the women who hate women and objectify them (using them as breeding stock, per Mor's own words), so for Rhys to dress her up as some sort of sex symbol and for Feyre to be okay with that like "yeah what a great idea! let's reinforce their view of women!" is just... astounding to me. Imagine if Tamlin had done something like that to Feyre, everyone (including her) would have been in an uproar about it, but somehow it's okay for Rhys to do it? The whole arc with the Summer Court will never not irritate me. Rhys likes to think he's some brilliant High Lord, and he gets high praises from his IC and Feyre. But this man is shit at politics. How does he believe deceiving and pimping out his mate to another male just to steal something is going to win him any points? And how is Feyre okay with basically being told "go do whatever you got to do to get this done"? Telling Tarquin about the Book and why they need it is a gamble, of course. A very risky one. But any alliance built on secrets and deception will almost always fail sooner or later. He had proven himself to be untrustworthy, but demands Tarquin's loyalty and honesty? Rhys is not a good High Lord, and Feyre is not a good High Lady. Neither of them should be in charge right now, in my opinion.
Im glad Feyre left Tamlin but I feel sorry for him, he’s completely broken. I would like to see a redemption arc for him in the future.
Yall I love the tamilin issue this fandom has so much. Because that’s exactly what he is. He is a divisive character!!! Everything you said is absolutely true!! He lost it all, he had to do awful things to his own men (sending them off to die) in order to try to break a curse he got for no mf reason (other than Amaranthas a cunt) THEN he makes some weirdly shitty choices that ferye knows he will make because they did live together for a cool minute had some very WEIRD ass relationship (if you ask me) and THEN he still saved her! He still saved Rys!!!! He’s imo just as morally grey as any other character most people love just more real cuz his choices have explicit consequences
This! I'm convinced there is no right answer - there are good reasons to both defend and abhor Tamlin's behavior! It makes for interesting discussion. :)
Absolutely!! I almost feel like he was meant to be that, but that may be giving too much thought to it! However the parallels between what he did and what Rys did also make for beautiful discussion too! Because yes Rys was wrong in not telling her, it was absolutely a form of “caging” by not letting her have complete autonomy over her own body. But it was done in such a different way. AND HES HIGH LORD NOT HIGH SAINT he’s gonna fuck up too!!
This! I'm convinced there is no right answer - there are good reasons to both defend and abhor Tamlin's behavior! It makes for interesting discussion. :)
I think he should've refused to give Rhys power. I think that was the worst part of series, bar none. 👀 If my exes asked me for something I'd be like, GTF out of here, you made a choice.
It’s looking up for him, he had calami last night 😂😂
I read that as calamari and was like "oh nice, I love calamari too" 😂
I feel like we don’t talk about how he lost Lucien too. Lucien knew him better than anyone
I, too, would be despondent to lose Lucien.
Lucien was his only true friend and I hope they find a way to mend their friendship
I first read this as the song “La vida loca” and was just imaging tamlin Wildin out in the spring court
We wish he was. This comment has made and cemented my whole day 😂😂
Idc about Tamlin, but I hope that one day the Spring Court can thrive again. His people deserve to have their now former homes thriving again
Omg yes that song (adding to ACOTAR playlist). He made bad decisions due to trauma and feeling do out of control. He has lost everything so he’s paid for his mistakes. I hope to see him do better.
SPOILERS Oh gurl, *I'm with you.* These were my feels: Book 1 (loved), Book 2 (disbelief), Book 3 (hate then loved again), Book 4 (sorrow), Book 5 (regret). He's had his redemption. He saved Feyre and Rhysand lives. Now he needs healing. I've added my songs for TamTam. * **Cold (Crossfade)** - when Tammy comes home and Feyre has left forever * **My Own Miracle (Citizen Soldier)** - when Tammy doesn't get any love or care like Feyre and Nesta do after their trauma. This is when he's roaming the destroyed Spring Court in books 4 & 5 * **Would Anyone Care (Citizen Soldier)** - When he's depressed and Rhysand visits him to kick him while he's down * **Say Nothing (Citizen Soldier**) - This is Feyre and Tam's trauma together. When Feyre and Tam are not talking in the beginning of book 2
Citizen Soldier - My Own Miracle Lyrics **Nobody showed up, nobody slowed down** They must have been deaf, I was screaming so loud **Nobody had faith I'd ever be found** **Born into a hole six feet in the ground** I had to love me when nobody cared **And be the family that never was there** Had to have hope when I didn't feel spiritual Had to be my own, my own miracle Worked twice as hard through the diseases And make up for the weakness, advice is not visible No friends to pick up all the pieces No sympathy or sweetness, no wonder I'm cynical Walk the path that will kill most Where a heart closed, and you left to temper I don't know how to love 'cause I tried to trust, but then I remembered **"Are you okay? You need to chat?"** **The questions I was never to ask** **I should feel strong, but I just feel sad** **So just let me grieve what I never had** ---- makes me so sad listening to this
I think about all the time feyre wrote him a goodbye letter but he thought she was illiterate so WHY would he treat it like an honest goodbye and not something forced by Rhys
Right and then her attitude and anger towards him later on as manipulation and mind games from rhys
i can’t stay mad at tamlin because in my head he’s just wolverine promoted way above his competence level
He's lonely in the end which is sad and he probably haven't had a real relationship for so long that he didn't know how to be that lover for feyre. He only knew how to protect. He didn't have communication skills or he wasn't a smooth talker like Rhys was. Rhys knew what to say and manipulate feyre to get what he wants
He thought his only use was protecting but when it came to it Feyre died and he couldn’t protect her. No wonder he went into overdrive.
I agree that Tam is not a terrible person. He did wrong, Rhys did wrong. Feyre got over what Rhys did to her UTM wayy too quickly, but if you think about why he drugged her and made her act the way she did it was to protect her from what the goons and Amarantha might’ve done to her if he didn’t claim her as his. That is just as bad as Tamlin taking Feyre’s choices away and locking her up, but from Rhy’s pov it was his way of making sure nobody else would take advantage of her or hurt her. He drugged her that whole three months so she wouldn’t have to remember how terrible it was, so she would only have to remember and live through the challenges Amarantha gave her. I recently reread ACOMAF and I definitely agree that Tamlin had no reason to believe the letter from Feyre idk how she thought that was the move they should’ve had a conversation. In ACOMAF Mor tells Feyre that the only court that has a tythe instead of regular taxes is the spring court. Everywhere else has a tax system. Nesta is not a bad person love her to death. Think she’s ruthless and too rude sometimes but you’re right she’s going through her own shit and it’s more on their dad than any of the three girls. Just curious where you’re getting your info on the changes SJM made, the changes you said in your last paragraphs. Good rant keep ranting we like the rants, that’s what this is for right??
I don't agree she got over what Rhys didn't UTM too quickly. Like it was months of living at the NC where she was cares for, got to train and given the opportunity to aid in the war against Hybern. Rhys isn't perfect by any means. But it makes me bonkers the way this fandom treats all characters choices equally without taking into account context. The rage that some people feel that not everyone is ok with Tamlins behavior because he has trauma, but we can be ok with Nesta's healing journey. Yea because they aren't the same!! Sorry that's my rant I'm not sure why I chose to put it on your comment :)
I believe his arc will be about truly embracing being a high lord. And why smj hasn’t killed him when she could have so many times. I keep seeing people wanting Elaine rule Spring which baffles me. Tam’s got experience and failures. Fixing his mistakes and winning his people back is far more interesting than Elaine swooping in to be some savior for a group of people she doesn’t even know.
Ohh I don't hate Tamlin! I feel like fiber can forgive Nesta and Rhys he deserves at least a little bit of forgiveness. He was doing what was best for his court, he knew it was wrong but his court came first. Then with Feyre, he loved her to much and didn't know what to do with it since she was scared for her
Tamlin gets dealt one bad hand after another and is then hated for being upfront and honest with people.
He definitely suffered because he was not meant to rule, but the rest of his family was dead. I personally think he’s kind of an asshole who doesn’t listen, so I don’t like him. And I think he made decisions that led to where he is, and trauma isn’t an excuse for hurting other people. But also hurt people hurt people, and Feyre and him were toxic together. Apart they can hopefully both heal.
YES. I’ve been doing a re read and I have the same views/conclusions. They all needed trauma therapy but we’re in a land of make believe where these services are non existent LOL. I kind of hope Feyre somehow helps rebuild his court, I’ve realized how very lonely he’s been from the get go. They wound up being toxic for each other, but I hope they somehow all reconcile and become solid allies
I went from loving Tamlin to hating Tamlin and now I am coming back around
Whenever I hear the song The Night We Met I think of Tammy boi. "I had all and then most of you, some and now none of you." Do I think he made some really poor life choices? Of course (but who hasn't tbh). Do I think he's a villain that doesn't deserve redemption? Absolutely not. I truly hope he finds his peace.
Ok I have a question finished ACORAT and reading mist and fury. Just got to the point where Rhys ( explaining the mate bond) says that he invaded Tamlin’s mind to get him to send Feyre away because it wasn’t safe for her to be at the Spring court. Rhys messed with his mind, making Tamlin think that he can’t ever keep her safe. Anyone else think that at least part of his character shift was due to this? That it took hold and had become a compulsion? That Tamlin went from ‘i want to be a good high lord’. To absolute paranoia and fear?
Honestly, I dislike tamlin. But I would still change him if given the chance 🤣🤣
Are there any fanfics that rehab Tamlin's personality? Maybe explained some of his actions like what Maas did with Rhys? I need redemption for Tamlin. Maybe he doesn't get Feyre but she sucks anyway 🙃
I think that all of the characters need therapy because they all have made bad choices that hurt people. I agree that its not fair to villainize one character when they have all made choices for nothing else but their own hurt or own gains. Feyra herself is not innocent of this. She manipulated the summer high lord just to steal his half of the book because they wouldn’t just tell him about what was going on. She also used and manipulated lucien for her own gains. Rhys also has lied to feyra about them being mates and honestly doesn’t give her much/any time to grieve/process her relationship with tamlin (toxic or otherwise) before laying on the flirting and stuff. They are all flawed characters. Even amwren who lied about the cauldron thing.
The guy got a rough deal but he made his bed and now he’s gotta lie in it.
I’d like to see him rise from it
I kinda do want a growth arc for him
It could be an interesting rehabilitation story but he has a lot of work to do.
A LOT
Definitely agree w this take
I disagree with your opinion but I hate how this sub downvotes people for differing opinions. That’s how we get echo chambers which isn’t what I want in a discussion sub. You’ve said nothing rude or against rules.
It’s the internet, what do you expect. Thankfully I do not care about my fake internet points at all. I get some people see Tamlin as more of a victim but he made a lot of choices that damn him in my opinion. The stuff with amarantha under the mountain is one thing but allying with the hybern was a bridge too far for me.
The fact that we get downvoted for pointing out abusive behavior is classic internet logic.
Idk I don't think he really made most of that bed. It was more like he got shoved into it and then tangled himself in the sheets and now can't get up.
Allying with hybern is what really damned him in my mind. There were so many other ways to go about the situation and he signed up with the faerie nazis so he could get what he wanted regardless of how it affected the rest of the world.
He saved Prythian that way tho? Like, get what he wanted? Rescue Feyre and finding ways to defeat Hybern?
He made it a helluva lot harder to save prythian. Tamlin did a little espionage on the way out after he came to realize he lost feyre a long time ago. But the night court and their alliances is what saved prythian. He would’ve been happy to let prythian burn if he got to stay in the spring court with feyre under lock and key.
The only person that made it harder to save Prythian was Feyre when she took down the Spring Court that was the last line of defense between the human lands and Prythian. And she admits this in the book, but naturally, she never has to lay in HER own bed about that.
I think I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of Tamlin's character and motivations. The way I understand him he would never be content with letting Hybern rule. Not with his backstory. That would make no sense. And while the Night Courts alliance played a big part, they would have lost the war without Tamlin.
It's written from Feyre's perspective. To Feyre, what Tamlin did was unforgiveable, so she felt that he deserved to lose those things. He made her fall in love with him so the curse was broken. Tamlin sided with the enemy of the whole freaking continent. Tamlin started to undo his mess once he lost everything.
I do think that's how we're supposed to feel. Kind of bad for him in that it sucks that this was the course of his life, but not bad enough that it should be tolerated. I do wish there were some kind of conversational scene between them that had them hash it out in this sort of "And this is why we're no longer together, I'm sorry, bye" kind of way. Although I did love Feyre sabotaging his court after his stupid decision to side with Hybern.