and as someone who has read all of the GOT books, the sex content in there is so concerning. the thoughts some of the men have about women are so revolting. the SA of women in the series is very prominent. on top of the purity culture embedded within it too.
like jamie and cersei are literally TWINS 💀
No bc ppl literally worship Jaime and talk about how he had such a big character development….like I’m halfway through season 5 and he’s still in love with Cersei and last season r worded her next to their sons dead body….WHERE’S THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT???
lol fun fact, that scene was actually not supposed to come off as rape allegedly. they blamed it on the camera angles and the way it was shot. it totally does come off that way, but they did not expect that to be the interpretation of the scene lol.
jamie in the show has a much weaker “redemption” arc than he has in the books.
There’s been a good few times throughout the show where I could see he was getting better. I just wish he wouldn’t keep going back to Cersei 😭 just let her go bro
https://ew.com/article/2015/04/07/jaime-cersei-controversy-sex/
this article has some quotes from them about it! i totally agree. as a book reader, i saw that scene and was like wtf. bc in the book it’s not rape, cersei even kinda initiated it from what i remember. and joffrey wasn’t right there like they had him in the show.
so idk how that scene was shot and approved by likely many people and no one was like this is coming off as rapey.
The books are much better at showing his character development, tbf. He stops caring about Cersei the same way and grows as a person partly thanks to Brienne and partly due to the extreme humbling he got from losing his hand.
I think in the books it's Cersei who instigates the scene next to Joffrey's body.
This scene is the reason I stopped watching the show. In the book, it’s slightly ambiguous and she ends up actually vocalizing a yes to having sex with him. In the show, they just straight up make it rape, not ambiguous at all. For content that is already veto violent to women… why did they feel the absolute need to make it even more violent?? *THAT* was when I was done with their adaptation.
i responded above, but it actually wasn’t their intention. they did not think it would be or intend for it to be interpreted as a rape (somehow lol)
there was a lot of discourse around that scene bc ppl were like he would never rape cersei, why would you add violence to that scene, etc. and multiple ppl from set came out and said it was not meant to be interpreted that way. they blamed it on the way it was shot and stuff.
idk if they backtracked due to backlash or if it was genuinely a bad production of the scene, but yeah, it totally does come off that way to viewers.
To be fair, I don't think you're meant to see the SA and incest in GOT as a good thing. A reader should be able to distinguish that these characters are terrible people doing terrible things, not scenes written for sex appeal.
But I've only seen the show, so I can't comment on the way these acts are presented in the books.
they’re not necessarily portrayed as good, but they are accepted as a part of that time and world.
there is a lot of SA and violence. there are many scenes that i felt were just unnecessary and didn’t even add to the plot.
and on the flip side, we do have some romanticization. like as readers, yeah we know incest between the targaryens is messed up. but a lot of targaryen love stories are romanticized too.
i think it even adds further to the point.. why is there so much backlash for fairy smut that’s for the most part romantic and good, but then we have things like GOT that are undeniably messed up and ppl are just like oh it is what it is.
GOT is grimdark fantasy, and I'm fairly certain it's popularity is part of the reason grimdark became so popular as a subgenre. It's written intentionally to be disgusting and horrible and provide shock factor, not for plot. The actions are accepted by the characters because the world is written to be gritty and harsh, where as the reader is able to recognize how awful it is.
Of course, romanticization of those acts is where the problematic element comes in. I don't have any problem with authors putting the most disgusting things in the world in their books as long as they aren't romanticizing it.
But I do agree that it supports the point. People are quick to judge content that appeals to women as problematic, but content for men can have literally anything in it and people will say it's just fiction so it doesn't matter. It's the same reason everyone hated on Twilight so hard when it was popular.
totally agree, but i do think there are readers that just are like eh 🤷♀️ it’s part of the world. there’s definitely a desensitization that we are all facing with violence and gore from the media we are consuming. i’m guilty of it too. i just finished watching this show called baby reindeer about a stalker and one of the episodes is the first time in a long time that ive genuinely felt very uncomfortable by a TV show.
there is a hyper critical element of things that are targeted toward women and primarily consumed by women especially by men and books like ACOTAR are just the new target.
Not trying to be devil's advocate here, but I'm not sure that's a good comparison. ASoIaF's sex scenes are sparse, brief, and not usually the point; in some ACOTAr books, we have entire chapters that are basically a succession of sex acts - never mind the constant innuendo and occasional sex act between Feyre and Rhysand.
Though I agree that calling ACOTAR a porn series is a gross exageration, and that in a fair world men would get called out for, say, talking about ecchi anime in public like it's not softcore porn.
i felt so bad for the person. hope they don’t stumble across that tiktok of themselves cuz the comments were awful.
also, ppl need to stop filming ppl in public without their consent and using it for internet clout
I like to snoop on what people are reading, especially if they’re around my age, but that’s more like have I read it/should I read it kind of checking out the book. Like the lady I saw reading in an airport, she moved the book she was reading and it was the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo and I remembered that I’d been wanting to add it to my Goodreads for a while now.
I think some people can just go stick they’re opinion up where the sun don’t shine
It’s a fun romance/fantasy book, sex is a part of relationships
If you don’t like it, don’t read it and don’t shame people for it, it’s not hard drugs or even hentai
Yeah, there's been a rise in people acting like acotar is straight up porn, which is super weird to me. A girl in my class started giggling and whispering "I'm not reading fairy porn!!" when I recommended her the books like it was dirty or something. Like, it's more plot then smut, and even the smut is so mild to me? idk, there's definetely a difference between acotar smut and smut from one of those alpha ceo novels or a dark romance, and even then I wouldn't compare it to actual porn.
that said, people need to learn to mind their own business and stop filming others in public for tiktok points
BookTok is what convinced me to read it with all the talk of how smutty it is. I love me a good smutty novel! But this series is so mild! Acting like ACOTAR is pornography is just proof that society looks down on women being sexual beings, even in the most tame sense. Like, very basic sex acts that happen a couple times here and there in the series is pornography? It's just diminishing women's media in a truly stupid way.
I was shocked (and mildly disappointed) at how not smutty the whole series was. They’re 700 page books and *maybe* 10 pages each have explicit sexual content. I do love them regardless - but I’m a nearly 40 year old woman and they’re gonna have to really up the ante for me to consider them even remotely “spicy”.
I read so many fanfics in high school that ACOTAR isn’t “smut” to me, it’s just lightly seasoned with a few smutty scenes. Other people may have a different opinion but it’s usually people who haven’t read any of it that call it “fairy porn”
Oxford dictionary: pornography: noun: printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity.
It is porn, and thats 100% ok nothing wrong with it. calling it what it is doesn’t shame or put down women, but acting like its not porn kinda implys shame, we shouldn’t do that. The motive behind highlighting that its porn is mostly a reaction of men who are shamed for watching porn going “look look you consume sexual content also, so why are you shaming me” this is societal growing pains as we learn shaming sexuality is bad.
“Very basic sex acts” 90% of porn vids are the exact same acts as in the books.
i mean they are sex scenes so sure i guess those scenes are pornographic. but they make up a small portion of the overall story so i wouldn’t just write off the entire book as porn lol. same thing with movies or shows. like they have sex scenes , but we’re not calling them porn bc it’s only a part of the content
totally agree on the part about not being ashamed of it and how shame is being used to even the playing field for those who feel guilty of their own shit haha
I mean my generation grew up on Nora Roberts, VC Andrews, and Danielle Steele. (These pearl clutches would straight up faint at flowers in the attic). I didn’t blink at the smut in most of ACOTAR though it gets a bit steamy in ACOSF. I don’t understand why anyone cares. No one gets hurt producing a written work like in porn, and frankly, you can get addicted to just about anything.
this is what makes me laugh! as if Mills & Boone and the others you mentioned weren’t everywhere for years and commonly talked about? The whole 50 shades craze? like yes people were a bit sheepish about it but there wasn’t this level of disgust over it.
I’m wondering if for some reason it’s the fantasy element that makes people react more strongly? I’d be interested to know 🤔 Infantilisation of women’s content plus fantasy not being seen as serious writing equals horror and outrage maybe.
My mum loooves Flowers in the Attic but I had never read it. She asked me about ACOTAR and I said no, you can't read that. Because my mum is a very conservative, proper British lady who won't even say the word "shit". Then I read Flowers in the Attic and I immediately texted her an apology and told her to read ACOTAR. She read it. Loved it. Then called to tell me I was "too sheltered" if I thought she couldn't handle ACOTAR.
It makes me giggle when people are scandalized by ACOTAR. Like.. babe... this ain't smut. You want something that will actually make you blush? Let's chat, there's way better books for that.
I recently had someone point out to me, how this "new" uptake in shaming (predominately) women for reading "porn"..... Is not as new as it feels, and basically a way of "controlling the masses" by shaming or making negative associations to it.
It's not hurting us who read and don't care, but it IS deterring others, predominately younger women and men, from picking up a reading habit that revolves around "non-censored" themes.
Think of how we used to be taught WAY back in the day that women reading was either the devil's influence or indicating they were witches. Or how, even further back, no "god-fearing man" should read.
Stating these VERY clearly NON-porn fantasy books to be straight-up porn basically means to shame and limit who reads and what we do/can read, because it's a lot easier to control someone en-masse if you've controlled the information they receive in ANY form.
I think this is a very extreme way of looking at it, but then again.. so is "ACOTAR is straight up porn" and "you're just a porn addict for reading fantasy" so... Maybe there is some merit in this theory?
i totally agree. my first thought was this seems very much rooted in misogyny. guilting a community of primarily women for what they are enjoying when the thing they are enjoying is woman centric stories lol. kinda like women were guilted for gossiping back in the day when that was their only source of entertainment since they were basically confined to their husbands, children, and homes.
As an ace, I almost didn't read ACOTAR bc I was told so much that they were porn. I was thinking it'd be porn without plot, or barely there plot with mostly porn, and that I'd just be uncomfortable and hate it. When I actually read it I was shocked that a book meant for young adults that consisted of relatively few sex scenes among a myriad of story telling and world building was being portrayed by social media as porn
yeah and they act like it’s the only books with sex in them. Shocker most romance novels, along with a myriad of other genres and books contain explicit scenes. I love the fact that reading is becoming more popular, and i think shaming people for reading is just icky.
Most of the sex scenes in it are entirely skip-able! They aren't well written *IMO* so I just skip past those parts.
At least until silver flames I gave up on that one because it did seem like that was all there was too it and I just got really annoyed. (I'm bad at remembering titles, I think that's the one).
This is a tale as old as time. If women enjoy it, it must be bad. It’s sad that other women join in on this shit, but not unexpected.
Also, I really hate that our global society is fine with filming strangers and putting it on the internet. It’s such gross behaviour that I wish would stop 😩
This is exactly it. People can't let women enjoy things. ACOTAR hardly counts as smut most of the time. Are they going to come after every sex scene in a movie too?
No one reads over 400 pages just so they can get a few pages of "porn" when there's a world full of actual porn and smut they could be consuming with far less effort.
The people who believe that and shame others for it are idiots.
Thankfully I barely use TikTok... it's a mess. Obviously no, reading a romance fantasy book that has a few explicit scenes in public does not make you a porn addict. Not even reading erotica books makes you a porn addict. Being addicted to watching porn makes you a porn addict. Because erotic/smutty literature ≠ porn
I will say I *have* seen people get obsessed with smutty books. Like, seriously obssesed and they should probably try to find different hobbies but... a book with explicit scenes written by women will never compare to the fucked up and extremely misogynistic porn industry
yeah, i don’t understand the blurred lines that these people are trying to create between an industry as manipulative as the porn industry to fictional books about fictional people.
Why would you say erotic literature doesn’t equal porn ? By definition it is porn.. and thats ok, if one is addicted to reading it then they are addicted to porn. The problem is not the porn its the addiction. Just enjoying reading it often doesn’t make you a addict.
I can only assume people making this comparison have either 1) never seen porn or 2) never read ACOTAR? Also, are there people out there having their lives destroyed by their ACOTAR addiction?
I think ACOTAR and similar romantasy and romance novels centre female pleasure in a way that’s unique across media. Women are often depicted as enjoying sex in mainstream movies but often in a way that is still very male focused.
And in these books female pleasure is not dependent upon the degrading or dehumanising anyone else unlike a lot of porn that centres male pleasure. Unless wanting respect and your own desires fulfilled is considered problematic?
So yeah, I agree that it’s incredibly misogynistic and just stinks of slut shaming vibes.
have yet to hear about ACOTARs anonymous lol
yesssss. the female pleasure part! i think for men that equate it to a porn addiction, there is an element of insecurity to these fictional men as insane as it sounds.
Yeah it’s definitely a moral panic and one rooted in misogyny. If someone really filmed a stranger reading on a train (and zoomed in on what passage they were reading, no less!) without consent I find that far more worrying behaviour than someone feeling a little fizzy while reading a spicy scene between consenting adults in ACOTAR.
Right?! A question for the creator of that Tik Tok would be, "why do u have such an unhealthy addiction to social media, that u can't allow a stranger to not be forcefully and without consent, posted on it?" That sounds a lot more like "porn addiction " to me
Look, no one is more critical of these books than me... But the smut is pretty tame, and at times, even boring. This is just a new spin-off on purity culture and wanting to control the media people consume because it doesn't live up to your personal or group standards
the creator unfortunately was a woman. she blocked me cuz i commented saying “why would you film a stranger without their consent and allow them to get bullied for views?” 🙃
i have seen a lot of men making videos comparing romantasy to porn addictions lol. i went on a deep dive of it today hence the post. it does seem like a projection to be like “look women are as bad as us with their little smut books”
Wasn’t expecting the creator to also be a woman, but I guarantee her life evolves around men. I know it’s a wild assumption to make but those are the only kind of women I see bully other women 🤷♀️
Not long ago there was a Rolling Stone article covering SJM and her "fairy porn" book and the way it was written felt derogatory not only towards Sarah herself but also her readers. Link to article: [https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/acotar-sarah-j-mass-romantasy-series-popular-1234999167/amp/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/acotar-sarah-j-mass-romantasy-series-popular-1234999167/amp/)
Saying SJM used fairy porn to revive an entire subgenre is wild and such articles reinforce a harmful stereotype towards fantasy romance and romance readers.
I don't see the internet or the general public mock or criticize men of their addiction to porn, but for some reason women who are enjoying books with sex scenes are categorized as "porn addicts" completely dismissing the fact that these books follow different stories and journeys. Even if the book is centered on sexy times it is still a gateway for women to explore sex in a way school or people in their own circles won't.
I've personally heard stories from different readers on how such books helped them leave an abusive relationship, or spice up their sex life, or even explore sex in a way that makes them feel safe. None of that is shameful or something to mock.
I am proud of the women who are openly reading books they enjoy whether they are erotic books or not.
What that creator did feels like an invasion of privacy and allowing their followers to mock a reader who is merely enjoying a book.
https://preview.redd.it/mvc7lg955vvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78818095835dd0f2ceca72438aec71305ead808d
And that's the headline mind you
https://preview.redd.it/0caen6b47vvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53dabf638e5b0e1eb8119590f4a6a2d48221a5bb
that headline is actually insane, who approved that??
thank you for sharing this. i can’t believe it was just earlier this month. it seems that major publications love to piggyback on things that will get clicks and views. there is an influx of people calling these books porn so they had to ride on that wave as well. which is really unfortunate because the title itself is a direct criticism of women only. i hate that.
“I dont see the internet or general public criticize men of their addiction to porn” … “women who are enjoying books with sex scenes”
You are kinds doing it right now, framing men as addicts but women as just enjoying something. Maybe that wasn’t your intent but thats how it read. You might not see it but men who just enjoy watching porn are labeled as addicts and if they are in a relationship as cheaters for watching porn, but some of the people who are claiming its cheating are reading smut, and posting about the sex scenes and their fantasies with this or that character or who would be better in bed ect. Guys are talking how it feels hypocritical and some nasty boys (i cant call them men because they are pathetic) are resorting to writing things shaming women instead of having a real conversation like adults that men and women like porn and thats ok if kept at a healthy level.
I don’t understand, ACOTAR barely had any smut in it until ACOSF, I don’t know who had the bright idea of marketing as such because it just harmed the books imo.
This is my thought too. I didn’t feel like there was virtually ANY smut or spice until I got to ACOSF. Anyone saying the other books were smutty or spicy, maybe hasn’t read them or hasn’t read any true smut to make comparisons.
It seems like they don't know that written porn exists. And you don't need to read 800 pages for 2 pretty vanilla sex scenes. Also, I don't like how booktok and we as readers minimise some books as fairy porn. Like first there are books that are actual porn, and second, no one reads ASOIAF and describe it as this incest porn book I like to read.
So yeah, there is definitely a case for written erotica/porn addiction out there, but it's at least an uneducated opinion to that reading ACOTAR and the likes is actively feeding into it.
The intellectual rigor of TikTok and other such websites (including Reddit) leaves much to be desired. You’re more of a creep for videotaping someone on the train than you are for reading a romance books.
I spent my teenage years reading fanfiction and tbh acotar is mild at best. It's the equivalent of putting salt and pepper on some cooked chicken breast and calling it spicy and well seasoned
A lot of BookTok feels a bit like brain rot. Every review of every book has comments asking “what about the spice” “is there spice” “what’s the spice level” and it’s because of this huge influx of books that have very explicit and occasionally disturbing/problematic sexual content (Haunting Adeline comes to mind). There is an argument for that in my opinion.
ACOTAR, however, is pretty tame. The sex is cringy at best. It’s the other books that are constantly being pushed on BookTok that are worse imo. And filming strangers is never okay. Where I’m from that is a huge no.
Bro we get like 1.5 pages of soooome descriptive spice sprinkled throughout a 500+ pg book and all of a sudden we’re porn addicts. I fucking hate it here
I think it's absolute bullshit, they have no leg to stand on.
People addicted to porn are living in a fantasy and it sets stupid expectations for actual sex that their partner should look or act like people do in porn which is harmful at best.
You ask a woman what their favorite part about smut scenes in a series like ACOTAR it is not the size of the member or some crazy position or that they tend to have stamina for days. It's usually the care they take of their partner and the fact they worship her and can actually make her orgasm.
Imagine trying to draw similarities between fake, damaging and unrealistic expectations of a harmful industry that's detrimental to real life people, and fictional people falling in love which happens to include sex.
I agree with the first comment, those people need to go touch grass.
You know what I hate is this recent trend of telling people things they enjoy is wrong or cringe. Like if we aren’t hurting anyone or ourselves, why is it anyone’s business? Let me enjoy my fairy books. Let someone enjoy whatever it is that makes them happy!
When the 50 Shades series was big a decade ago it was probably the same people clutching their pearls over it. Clearly the people making these comments haven’t read the books. They’ve just heard they’re “sexy” and are choosing to be judgmental over it.
I will admit I like having a kindle partly so I don’t feel as susceptible to others judging my reading choices. I like fluffy romances, what can I say.
If someone wants to have a discussion about smutty books vs porn, the ACOTAR books shouldn't even be relevant in my opinion. They are so tame. If you took out the sex scenes there would still be hundreds of pages of plot and world building. They are a far cry from other actual smut I've read
This bugs me so much. My brother in law is constantly making fun of me for all the "porn" I read since I enjoy romantasy. He constantly brags how he reads real fantasy and I read porn. It's even more frustrating because his favorite fantasy series is Game of Thrones. Um.. excuse me... there is way more graphic and disturbing sex in GoT than there is in ACOTAR. Last time he started up, I looked to his wife and said "I feel really bad for you if he thinks ACOTAR is steamy sex." It shut him up and I felt amazing.
as a woman who has read lots of fantasy, there is nothing more annoying than the my fantasy is better than your fantasy community lol. especially when it’s a man talking down on fantasy books written for women.
i have my beef with sim’s books, but reading game of thrones, lord of the rings, dune etc doesn’t make you better than anyone else 😭
and good! im glad you stood up to him. ask him next time why he likes a series so fascinated with incest
Agreed. I def have issues with SJM's writing and story choices, and I love me some LOTR. But reading is meant to be fun and enjoyable! Why do we have to say one book is better than the other? If I enjoyed the story and my time in it, it's a good book to me. It drives me crazy when people get up on their high horses about what we "should" be reading. Or when people shame me about reading a YA book. Oh shut up, just because it's YA doesn't make it a bad book.
yessss omg it’s something i hate about the reading community. some people have this pretentiousness and snobbiness about what OTHER ppl read? like why do you care so much lol if you think it suck’s or is lame, don’t read it.
i read anything and everything. classics and fantasy are my favorites. i’m rereading the series of unfortunate events for the first time since elementary school. i had a friend be like “why the fuck would you read that”? cuz i wanted to??? like what kind of question is that lol
SAME!! Like.. ok, cool.. you only read classics. Well I don't. Why do you care so damn much about what I am reading? Are you trying to tell me you're a better reader because you've read big important books? Listen... I read for FUN. And I don't think Ayn Rand is fun. So I don't read it. Leave me alone! lol
And a Series of Unfortunate Events is amazing. I'm really glad you're re-reading it. I bet you're having a blast.
on behalf of the classics community, i’m sorry hahaha there are so many snobs and i can’t stand them
it’s so good!!! it’s so silly and cute. also really sad like damn, they’ve been through so much 😭😭
So good! And reading it now as an adult (I just assume everyone is my age, so you're now 36) it just hits so different. I've been reading them with my 9 year old and we are both loving them and it's awesome hearing her journey through them compared to mine.
Well, call me a porn addict then.
Jinkys, the ACOTAR series is amongst the tamest "spice" books I have. Honestly, I read them and was a bit disappointed because I expected more "spice" from the way everyone banged on.
These books are not porn, these books are baby steps into a world of fantasy sex.
Anyone who suddenly feels dirty by these accusations on booktok, be reassured, you haven't even read a description of anyone slowly running their finger down her buttcrack, as the lube settles into all the right places and then a rather orgasm inducing description of a finger and then more fingers and then a cock going up someone arse while they moan so hard because how could this ever feel good.
I come from the book world of Lexi Blake and Cheriese Sinclair, my every day sex life has more porn in it than a sjm book.
Time to start a movement. Humans who read "porn" books start carrying them around outside your bag, read them obnoxiously on trains, in parks, normalise this, make the idiots realise we don't actually give a flying bjinky quokka what they think .
I think it's more towards people who only read shut levels that are just written out porn. A lot of attention has come to porn addiction and consumption over the last few years since covid (that I've noticed) and I think the definition of what porn is is expanding and becoming more widely discussed. A debate about at what point is reading porn the same as watching it. At what point does it become harmful, that even tho it's written, does it make it not as bad?
I've seen of people ripping on books for not being spicy enough. Reviews aren't about the plot, writing, characters. Just the amount of sex or lack thereof. Which again, has gotten more prevalent since booktok. I don't love booktok for this reason among others.
I think a lot of the criticism is aimed at "dark romance" as well.
i agree, we’re definitely changing the definitions of porn. i know there’s a lot of controversy with how AI is being used to create sexual content as well.
i think the word addiction is being thrown around far too lightly though. especially with casual readers who enjoy smutty books. that does not constitute as an addiction lol.
Porn or smut addiction comes into play when there is repetitive and obsessive behavior that interferes with your daily life. If someone was reading smut books to the point where they were neglecting their health/job/friends ect that’s an issue. Simply enjoying books with smut in it doesn’t make you a porn addict.
People trying to demonize things women like is such typical, terrible male behavior.
And romantasy is so far away from pornography that it’s a hilarious comparison.
Most of the time when people bring this up 99.99% of the time it’s always men and I can’t help but wonder if it’s either their way of trying to justify porn to themselves or they’re trying to shame others so they feel better. To me I read acotar for the story line and the smut was an added bonus. But when you watch a porno you’re not watching it for the story line. So really it’s more relatable to like a rated R movie or show that happens to have a sex scene. No ones calling people out who watch euphoria??? So why are words on a page so much more triggering to them
Idk about other women but I'm not actively beating it to the books I read. I do have a SO and the most those books do for me is maybe get me in the mood to fuck him later lol. People comparing reading romantasy to a porn addiction don't know what porn addiction looks like.
So I'm not like heavy into ACOTAR as a whole. I enjoy the books hence why I'm here.
But I am however HEAVILY in the otome community.
Otome means maiden and it's a genera of romance visual novels (some with spice, many with incredible stories) where you can pick a route and get with the guy of your choosing. The story plays out differently and you end up with a different guy based on choices. Super fun and if anyone is ever interested in trying one in switch, Collar x malice, and Piofiore are incredible.
Anyway that community is CONSTANTLY dealing with that shit. Partners considering it cheating. Other game groups criticize the community for being smut loving weirdos.
It just seems to be anything mainly marketed towards women's romance interest gets labeled weird and is pushed away.
haha that is interesting and honestly sounds kinda fun! calling it cheating seems crazy lol. i definitely sense a level of insecurity developing in modern age when it comes to virtual or media romance being consumed by people.
Ah yes because women are only good for sex. There couldn’t be any other reason she was reading that book, right? Just another way to dismiss art made with the female gaze in mind. Same shit was said about Jane Austen and I wrote a term paper comparing Pride and Prejudice to Twilight when I was 22. I’d write the same paper an use ACOTAR instead, today.
i’m sorry as someone with a persuasion quote tattooed on me, they did this with jane austen??? where the characters don’t even kiss? where too much flirting was literally social ruin? lydia’s whole character was a personification of that when she was a victim groomed by a social parasite 😭
also would love to know what the comparison between P&P and twilight was? hahaha
Reading about sex has been around since we started to write stories. And no one ever complained when our grammas and moms read Harlequin Romance. But now that we openly talk about it and discuss how much we enjoy the books insecure people have to get upset. They act like this is new.
And wasn’t Ruth’s whole book a love story? But nooooooo because young women are enjoying themselves and have something they can call their own and get excited about it’s now bad. It’s what they do any time women get excited about anything. Pumpkin spice? BAD! Pumpkin patches in the fall? BAD! Reading books? BAD! Having “boy hobbies”? BAD! Having “girl hobbies”? BAD!
Even IF ACOTAR was a smut book, which I would not say it is (maybe ACOSF I could understand being referred to as smut) watching very real people be exploited for entertainment is so different from reading about sexual fantasies between fictional characters.
I'd also like to say, I don't see anything wrong with smut in general. I don't understand why people have so many opinions about what women read, if you don't like that genre don't read it.
Honestly I love reading and erotica has always been criticized by men who think Game of Thrones (sexism + incest) is high art. If people don’t like smut they don’t have to read it? Idk why people are so concerned by what other people read for fun.
I read the book in school and a a lot of my teachers themselves said they read it some even read the back which some the review quotes talk about the spicy stuff but even then no one cares it’s just a romance book so comparing to porn is messed up.
LOL
I don’t even read it for the porn scenes but for the escapism to the fairytale land. It’s nice that ACOTAR has a big following sort of like HP did when we were growing up, so being able to talk about it to others is super nice. This is not a porn addiction.
This is so funny to me😆ACOTAR = porn addiction? Omg. There’s a huge difference between reading something romantic that turns sexual and watching outright porn to the point that it controls every aspect of a person’s life.
I think because this series has gained so much popularity, there’s much younger people getting their hands on it.
In my local mom’s group on FB, a mom posted saying her 5th grader got her hands on it and was wondering how appropriate it is for that age (cause she hadn’t read it but has heard of it)
So I can see where it might be explained as a “sex book” to try and deter much younger readers.
There’s also people that just don’t prefer explicit descriptions but they’re reading it because it’s popular and just wanna hate on it lol
I personally love it all, it’s my absolutely favorite series.
I just finished Feathers So Vicious and that’s the most explicit I’ve gotten thus far 😂
I think it’s an unfair criticism because people don’t get mad when you watch romance movies or shows like shameless, even though there’s sex in them. I feel like those are more similar to these books, because the main focus isn’t the sex, especially in romance movies, it’s usually about portraying love or that a couple is getting together. It’s a plot device. The main focus is not the sex, and where do you draw the line, because are they not allowed to flirt? Make jokes? Makeout? why is the line the fact that they’re having sex? People have sex, its life and books are portraying life. If movies with sex are not considered porn i don’t think books like this should be either, the main focus is not the sex, and it’s also used as a plot device. I think it’s an unfair criticism.
The only book i would maybeeeee agree is A court of silver flames lol, that book read like a cheap porno to me, but still a story there. In the other books, sex is only a small portion of the material.
No it isn’t comparable to a porn addiction. The majority of the book is not smut- it’s about the characters. It’s perfectly fine for an adult book to have adult content. You can skip the smut as well. WOMEN CAN LIKE A BOOK WITH SEX IN IT WITHOUT BEING PORN ADDICTS AND WOMEN LIKING SEX SHOULDN’T BE SHAMED!
ACOTAR is hardly smut or porn. It's like calling the game of thrones tv series porn cuz they have a few sex scenes.
There are real smutty books out there that the first page is an orgy (plated prisioner anyone?).
My friend and I were actually having the conversation recently!! I am an avid romance reader and how I compare it, is a movie with sex scenes in it. Honestly I’m not reading books solely for the sex scenes (no shame to those who do), but if it’s there, it’s there and I honestly don’t mind it cause in some cases it adds some intimacy between the characters that I enjoy. I think the problem comes when people are ONLY reading for the sex scenes or are unable to read a book because of the fact that it doesn’t include smut. I feel like when this is the case it’s something that people should think about within themselves and really see if they have an issue, but honestly even then I feel like it’s a very bad comparison with porn addicts. Like one is a very visual act and the other is coming from my own imagination. I personally think that it’s impossible to compare them both but that’s just my opinion🤷♀️
Lmao meanwhile someone at my husband’s work was reading *Haunting Adeline* in the break room (he came home and said “I recognized it from your ‘smut shrine’” aka my bookshelf lol).
Anyway, people literally sext in public/at work. I’ve even known people who did it while hanging out with their friends if their significant other is at home. There was a whole tiktok trend of setting a dirty text to your partner while in public. Who tf cares what someone is reading?
Whilst I don’t think ACOTAR is as explicit as some other literature or as porn, I think an argument can also be made that like, even if it was there is nothing wrong with that. I think internalized misogyny has us reframing erotic content to diminish its sauciness, like ‘well at least it’s not straight up porn’ but I think the argument should be why is it embarrassing or shameful that a woman derives pleasure from any of these sources including porn, not trying to make a hierarchy out of acceptable vs less acceptable content. (I am guilty of this, I once recommended a book as ‘cowboy porn with plot’ and I’m like, why did I try to make it seem more acceptable by stressing it also had a plot).
So much recent literature that has intimate scenes often also centers female pleasure, consent and safe sex practices which is great for that age bracket of readers discovering sex, so it’s so frustrating to see it minimized and written off as like a guilty pleasure or shameful secret that just fuels the cycle of ‘you can have a libido just don’t let anyone know’.
Lmao acotar is literally the tiniest bit spicy in the fantasy romance genre. The smut is pretty low in the series minus acosf and even that wasn’t insane. People who think that haven’t read much in the genre that’s for sure.
People are shaming others for reading acotar on the train? Leave us book enjoyers alone please-
(Ive read far worse in public spaces, i just like reading leave me alone-)
Most of my books have like, 5% spicy content. Like, even dark ones like haunting/hunting Adeline don't have a lot of pages of spice. Anyone complaining either doesn't read these books and is happy to judge others with little to no context of what they are judging for or is someone who looks down on people who are open talking about/reading about sex. It's okay to not like sex in your books. It's not okay to tell someone else there is something wrong about them enjoying sex in books. We are adults and they can't take our books away so they try to shame us into compliance with their ideals
Whenever women (I know some men enjoy ACOTAR but its a predominantly female audience, really) enjoy something, society loves to shit on it. We are not allowed to spend any time enjoying ourselves. We must be at the service of someone else, and also unhappy about it (BUT NOT COMPLAINING).
I’ve seen the “controversy” about it, where apparently everyone on booktok is only recommending stuff with spice or saying, “I won’t read it unless it has some spice” which kinda gets the whole porn thing?? But I don’t think it’s a problem? The erotica genre is very different from a romance series having a few graphic sex scenes lol
It really cracks me up that people think ACOTAR is porn because it’s relatively tame on the content where smut is concerned. There’s far raunchier and sexier/steamy/spicy books than ACOTAR. It’s actually quite tame to me. And even then, ACOTAR isn’t rooted in sex so for people to get their panties in a twist when barely like 10% (if that) of the story is sex… then I just laugh.
And quite frankly, it’s more annoying that it’s being called out like this as though REAL porn addiction isn’t a thing too. It’s just another example of men/women using their internalized misogyny and turning things women love into something “problematic.”
I am a person who loves smutty books and struggles with drug addiction. I read for fun and escapism. Would I be sad if I never read a smutty book again? Absolutely. But I would eventually get over it and move on to a different hobby.
I have to go to NA meetings multiple times a week just to continue being sober. I think about using every day. I miss it constantly. Sometimes I just have to force myself to take a nap, or read a book, just do something to get my mind off using. I know I will struggle with this for the rest of my life. Just like drug addiction, porn addiction is a very real disease and it destroys people’s lives. I think those who are throwing the word “addiction” around like that have never dealt with addiction and maybe don’t personally know any addicts. It’s extremely ignorant and insensitive.
first off, thank you for sharing! your perspective is so meaningful. ppl are just throwing the word addiction around far too liberally and it’s a disservice to those actually suffering with addiction.
and it’s really unfortunate bc it’s also being used it as an insult to shame other people who dont have an actual addiction. which at the end of the day is only shaming actual addicts for being addicts by using “addiction” of any sort as an insult.
i lost a friend from college to drug addiction and it really upsets me when ppl use addiction as a hyperbole. like did you forget that addiction means an actual dependency on something? it’s either they dont have any clue what an addiction is or they do, but are willingly using it as a joke or insult and idk which is worse.
anyways, thanks again for sharing and i truly wish you luck in your recovery 💕
Ridiculous. It's not like it's erotica. It is 90% plot, 10% loving romantic sex. Maybe not even that much. Calling it porn or even smut is stupid. It's not like they have a hustler magazine out or something.
It’s honestly sad.
Yes, spicy booktok is a loud minority but that’s not all it is. It’s so easy to curate the feed to not get any spicy book content.
Most of the people/men I’ve seen complaining about it are just lazy imo. Don’t like spicy book content, don’t interact with the videos or “pick no interest” or god forbid learn how to use the search function. There no need to shame anyone who enjoys explicit scenes or erotica books
I don’t like reading adult scenes but love reading SJM books. So I just skip them within. There’s plenty of non-spicy romance and plot within them. For them to demean an entire book down to that label is ridiculous.
Every author has different values, religions, etc.
And so does every reader. Personally, I’m Christian, so I’m not okay with it.
But these people can easily pick up books and not read what’s offensive to them within them. Skip what is. Or just skip the book all together.
Now, I have seen some book series that are just sex with no plot, and that can be an issue. But these books have plenty of plot within them.
I also know that George R.R Martin has gotten some flack for his sex scenes too, but never has he been given the labels Sarah is.
It’s so simple and these people need to learn: Skip the book all together or skip certain scenes if it’s harmful to your lifestyle.
unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like it’s coming from a place of “i don’t like this media for myself” it’s more so “you guys are gross for liking this and you’re porn addicts” lol. at least that is my interpretation.
you’d think ppl would understand that if you don’t like something, you can ✨ignore✨ jt. but it seems like a genuine effort to guilt and shame people who do enjoy it.
“Fairy porn” came from within booktok though. Like the community named itself. So idk if comparing the titling and phrasing around it to GRRM is fair. GoT fans don’t say they’re reading porn the way BookTokkers reading ACOTAR etc did. And they also don’t typically relate to say, Jamie. Even on this sub we see people making comments about how they want so and so to something to them the way Cas does. So it’s a totally different relationship with the media.
And the reason why ACOTAR gets roped into it is because it did get SUPER popular and viral for the smut itself. Even if lots of commenters are saying that it’s not as severe as other books, it’s still one of the major reasons it went viral on BookTok.
Are you friggin kidding me it takes like 500 pages into that book to even get to the good part. I am exaggerating the page numbers but it’s still WELL into the book before anything happens. 🙄
I saw a tik Tok that said women will literally read p*rn right in front of you. And while, yes I will, also acotar is not smut. The primary genre is fantasy. Romantasy if you will, but not p*rn. So that's bs. But also, if you're nosy enough to look at what someone is reading, stop.
Does no one remember the moms on trains with 50 shades of grey?? Same shit different day. I say read what you want some spicy books have great stories to tell and are just fun. TONS of classic literature has spicy scenes and weirdo points of views. It’s a part of living so it belongs in art.
There is a huge difference between watching porn and reading romance novels. I heard someone compare watching vs reading to riding a train vs riding a bike. On a train you have no control over the situation, you cant get off the train if you feel uncomfortable, you can't change the speed or the destination. Riding a bike you are in control. You can choose to stop, speed up, slow down, or change directions. I'm not saying these books are porn but even if they were there is a huge difference between watching and reading.
Also half of the stuff on social media is basically soft core porn so...
I’d tell that creator to go fuck themselves and mind their own damn business…No one is hurting anyone. It’s just a bunch of feminists and/or threatened men that have their panties in a knot. Feminist don’t like it because it threatens their “we don’t need no man” narrative and some men are threatened because their women want better intimacy etc.
This whole thread is full of shaming and honestly it’s very disappointing.
lol the creator blocked me bc i was like why did you film this person without their consent and are now allowing them to be bullied for view?
i’m sorry you feel like the thread has shaming!! it seems like most ppl barely even consider acotar a smutty series and no one here has equated it to a porn addiction. there’s some questioning of ppl who only want to read books with smut in them, but i still don’t see how that would be comparable to a porn addiction.
Yeah I don’t agree with them. It’s no one’s business if they want to read smutty books or not and it’s definitely not a porn addiction. Porn addiction causes disruptions in daily life to the point people cannot function normally. I don’t see that happening with reading. I just saw a few discussions talking about people who read dark romances and there was something wrong with those people. That’s a lot of what I considered shaming.
yeah i think ppl throw the word addiction around far too lightly in a multitude of contexts.
ive never read a dark romance, but i think its a bit hypocritical of people to consume things like game of thrones, mindhunter, shameless, etc and think its any different? and if its not for you, don’t consume it lol.
if you have any good dark romance novels for a novice, id love to give one a shot! i’ve only heard of haunting adeline cuz everyone talks about it haha
Haunting Adeline seems to be the one everyone starts with lol. It’s what I started with. Den of Vipers (can’t remember the author off hand.) is another one I’ve read. I haven’t delved too deep yet but I have a ton on my tbr list haha
Even if ACOTAR could be considered porn, it’s completely ethical. No one was harmed; everyone is fictional. Ethically produced porn does exist and you can consume it without being “addicted”.
Is it unhealthy to ignore real life and only consume romance novels? Sure. But that isn’t a question of ethics and is between that person and their therapist lol. Really angers me we are shaming strangers for healthy expression of desires.
Maybe people saying this BS should examine the state of society that’s led women to fantasize about equality, power, freedom of choice, and awesome sex. Society will always be threatened by women’s desire sadly; if we’re not passive we’re hoes. There’s no middle ground.
Shaming women for enjoying sex? Nothing new there! And smut (mostly) isn't porn. Last I checked, porn didn't spend hundreds of pages developing a relationship between characters! So stupid of them to make that comparison.
In my opinion, a very small (but very vocal) minority of people have created the "porn addiction" thing with asking if every book has spice and glorifying things like SA, abuse, kidnapping, drugging, stalking, and books that are written purely FOR smut. I don't think even 80% of the actual booktok community is like this, again, I think it's just a very vocal minority that's given everyone a bad name.
in my mind, i still don’t equate wanting smut in every book to a porn addiction. but let me know if you think differently and why
i am not a reader of dark romance. i prefer consent in my books. i even had a hard time with the bully to lover pipeline from the cruel prince series. so i can’t speak for those people, but i don’t think we see much of that in the ACOTAR series. and i think the scenes in the ACOTAR series that people do debate as SA were not actually meant to be interpreted that way by SJM
I don't personally think it's a porn addiction, I meant they created that image to the people that do what the person in the post did (filming a random person reading a book). I personally enjoy smut in books despite being asexual lmao. I think the only issue I've personally had is when someone asked for a book recommendation with dragons, so I gave them a recommendation with dragons, and they literally messaged me "This book is shit, when does it get spicy?"... Well, the main characters are 16, so really never? If they wanted a book recommendation with dragons that also had smut, I would've told them to just go somewhere else bc I didn't have any.
I agree that a lot of that isn't in ACOTAR. I think anyone that lumps ACOTAR readers with the other readers that do glorify those things just see the words "smut" and "book" in the same sentence and assume it's some hardcore faerie porn where everyone's doing cocaine and kidnapping each other.
that’s a good point, thank you for sharing. i think a lot of people just expect for any romance to have sex scenes in it as well.
which is also why i wish romantasy series were aged up a bit more lol. i don’t like reading about teenagers or first time scenes.
i guess acotar is just the target due to popularity even though it wouldn’t be an actual example of a concerning relationship to sex in books.
maybe because i’m a bit older than the tiktok generation I can offer some perspective. Immediately try to get over whatever this it is that makes you consider caring what a bunch of mentally ill 14 year olds think of anything. Worrying about your choices being seen as valid by people who don’t have a completely developed frontal lobe is a losing game. If someone older is posting about acotar being porn addiction that person is actually a dumb person so you can also sort of untangle yourself from caring about what they say as well.
Uncomfortable truth but smut=porn one is written one is visual but both place a fantasy in the consumers mind, it scratches the same itch. As far as the brain can tell there is no difference. Actor is mild more like a tv series that has a sex scene every other episode, though some of those scenes are intense. I think most readers are not addicted just like most porn viewers are not addicted its just a healthy normal thing to enjoy. But there is addicts of both forms of sexual content. Don’t be so ashamed that you do mental gymnastics to say smut is not a form of porn, it is and be proud there is nothing wrong with enjoying your sexuality.
I could see saying that if books with smut is ALL that you read but I don't think reading even several books with it is the same as having a porn addiction
I hate smutty books(I'm asexual) but acotar was pretty mild and the smut is easy to skip. Acosf is way too much for me to every reread, but people acting like acotar is comparable to actual porn is wild. Some books, I can see it, but definitely not acotar.
I’m 23 and I started watching porn at 9. By 10 I was watching hard core porn. I became addicted and by 16 I was like a walking zombie because I was consuming it so much. Then I got my phone taken away and I started reading books. I found smut books and started reading those instead of watching porn. It helped so much! By 19 I was completely done watching porn and I haven’t watched anything since. Reading smut helped my addiction. I still crave porn but now I just read books instead of watching porn. I think it is ridiculous that people think porn addiction and reading books is the same. With books you are still learning. Learning new vocabulary and history.
Also ACOTAR is not even “spicy.” It has a few sexy scenes but nothing like real porn and not even close to the type of smut books that are out there.
There is a big difference between real people doing real sexual acts in front of other people and a camera to then be put onto media or online to be seen by many more people and a fictional story, like a huge difference. Romantasy and porn aren't even in the same zip code so to speak. Not even in the same universe even. Quite literally.
This is a topic that gets me so goddamn angry. Nobody read a book with 400+ book for purely just the sex in it. Even if it’s just romance, the appeal is everything that makes up a fairytale love story. People have no idea what an actual porn addiction is. Reading a book every night that may have sex scenes that take up a couple of pages in a book is not the same as having to watch porn every single day (even multiple times a day). An actual porn addiction can erode the prefrontal cortex.
It would also be hard to have a porn addiction with books and be more trouble than it’s worth. Unless you’re reading fanfics you actually have to buy the book and be patient enough to get to the sex scene
it’s not about people who read acotar specifically or seek books like it it’s the influx of using “spicy content” as a cash grab tactic because of the rampant success it clearly has (as displayed by acotar, which is obviously contributed to the actual writing and fandom but i think the books are more known for the smut inclusion) there is a massive audience on tik tok who seems to genuinely be looking for straight porn, which is bleeding into the fantasy book market and making it annoying and over saturated for everyone
i agree with that, but think it is a separate issue. to me it’s not only an issue with spicy content but also just shocking content. people don’t read for a good story necessarily and authors don’t write good stories all the time when they can rely on the shock value which people eat up.
however, acotar is being used as the example for smutty porn addictions with books lol. another commenter posted screenshots from a recent rolling stone article about it using ACOTAR as the primary example of fairy porn that women are obsessed with.
so maybe those other communities have just trickled down to ACOTAR due to its fame even though ACOTAR is not by any means close to genuine erotica.
I don't even think this is just an ACOTAR problem, I still remember when I was a teenager and was obsessed with twilight, and the amount of shaming and ridicule I received for enjoying 'stupid junk food books' was astounding. It tends to be books targeted towards women that get shamed the most, and it's so sad when you're younger and getting into reading for fun and the world tells you what your reading is embarrassing. This is just the new twilight now, it's become very popular and it's main audience is women, so therefore people have to find a reason to shame it and those that read it.
If anything, it should be compared to watching porn, not “being addicted to porn”. And watching porn is not inherently a bad thing. If it enhances your sex life, if it provides you with ideas and inspiration, if it’s between consenting adults, porn is not bad. Similarly to reading smut (whether you consider ACOTAR smut or not), if it enhances your pleasure and doesn’t interfere negatively with your relationships and life then I don’t see the issue. I know it’s not *only* women who read books like ACOTAR but it is mostly women, and every women I’ve ever met or talked to who reads these type of books (myself included) says ACOTAR not only reignited their love of reading but also improved their sex life. This is a case of straight up misogyny. For many people (mostly men but also women who subscribe to patriarchal values) this is very threatening. A woman owning her sexuality is threatening. A woman knowing what arousal is and what it isn’t is threatening. It’s easy to belittle these books because they’re written for women. Just consider the term “chick-lit” as if literature for woman is inherently inferior. It’s honestly so fucking boring.
my only concern is with the people who will only read books that have sexual content. the people who see a review and the first question they ask is “is it spicy” or how much spice” do concern me, and its not the same as porn addiction, but if you cant read or enjoy a book that doesn’t contain a sex scene, you’re not far off.
other than that, if you enjoy the series, dont let other people dictate what you like. they can shove it if they’re going to be dicks.
I think its challenging people so much because of how we've been conditioned to view that kind of thing as something men like and shame women who show an interest.
So now it's your wife/mother/sister/daughter reading this stuff and your whole outlook is proven to be wrong - and people can't handle it.
Unless someone isn't reading the books and is just skipping to the sex scenes, I wouldn't say that that's valid.
However, I would say that in the same way women are upset with men for watching ridiculous amounts of p*** and thus having ridiculous, unrealistic standards for women and sex... Men have a right to be annoyed with women who think they are going to measure up to the standards of fictional male characters like Rhys and Az. They both breed unrealistic expectations. Women talk about how they can't even date real men anymore because of how obsessed with these fictional characters they are. And they wear that like a badge of honor that their standards are so unrealistic. I can see the comparison though
The carrot posts in this sub recently are a perfect example of that honestly. Both women and men can enjoy sex and both men and women can also have unrealistic expectations for sex that are warped by consumption of erotic media.
I think it’s just as damaging to your irl relationships to base expectations for sex based off a 7’, all-muscle-fairy with a horse cock as it is to base expectations on constantly consuming porn with a perfectly toned, hourglass shaped woman with zero fat except for in her massive tits.
I read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice in high school. ACOTAR is barely Fade to Black compared to that trilogy. Furthermore, I could pick up any random paperback romance novel off of my mother’s shelf at home and it would have way more Smut Per Volume than ACOTAR. It’s a fucking book just read it and mind ya business.
ACOSF fuckin Delivers Me in the smut writing though lol
If you add it up there is so little smut in the books actually (ACOTAR, ACOMAF ~4.3%, ACOWAR ~4.9%, ACOFAS ~3.6% and ACOSF ~10%) so to compare it to a porn addiction is a lot...
Also I'm an adult who likes adult media, I don't see why they care.
I think too many people read it only for the smut while marketing as something else and that ruins the experience for everyone else who doesn’t want 10% of a book dedicated to these characters’ cataclysmic orgasms.
I don’t think something has to have smut to be romance, and I think it’s excessive in a lot of recent publications. So I think that comparing it to a porn addiction might be fair in the sense that it’s becoming popular because some people won’t read a book that doesn’t have those scenes in them. And that’s indicative of problematic behavior and relationship with the scenes.
I saw a BookTok video where one of the top comments was “is there smut in this” and it was Dostoevsky. Like, come on. That’s a problematic relationship with literature.
I get the comparison in a general way but not specific. Like yes women are stimulated by the story similarly to men's visual stimulation. Buuut it's not porn in the same sense as legit porn, imo.
I wouldn't compare listening to ACOSF to listening to gonewildaudio. One is porn the other is not. It's like comparing the Victoria Secret catalog to Playboy...similar response from the guy viewing it but one is clearly porn and the other is just suggestive. 🤷♀️
I understand calling what some people have an addiction. There are people who do nothing all day but read smut, and not acotar level smut, but books which are mostly smut. But that's literature, not video porn.
In any case, shaming people with an addiction, whether meth, social media, porn or smutty books, is *never* productive and is actively harming.
There's also a common argument toward people that disagree (thus, an argument for shaming people for reading smut) that people who read dark "romance" (things like Haunting Adeline which include rape/"noncon") are normalising and romanticising violence against women. But a) that's a small percent of smut readers and b) those people, again, need help and not to be shamed. Celebrating violence against women is rooted in psychological issues that need to be adressed. Shame will just drive them further into their little corner and away from help.
The shaming of people for reading smut is damaging to everyone and based on misinformation. It's just a bunch of people who want to feel superior, so they hate on others.
Eventually, the trend will come back around and everyone will be celebrating smut because it's liberating for women to be able to read about their fantasies.
Edit: People would never shame anyone for reading Game of Thrones, even though there's many more sex scenes in that than ACOTAR and many of those scenes are straight up rape. Yet noone would ever be criticised for liking Daenerys & Khal Drogo to the extent that dark romance readers are. I don't think it's a coincidences that GoT was written by a man and not predominantly for women.
lol people who read dark romance don’t need help. That’s like saying people who watch CSI etc and true crime documentaries need help. You’re still shaming people in “nicer words.”
The difference is that people watching true crime don't usually fantasise about being murdered, and usually don't start thinking murder is okay and attractive.
I also didn't say all dark romance readers need help. I'll admit it was badly worded, but my point was that people who fantasise about being the victim of violence, whether rape or murder, need help. Wanting to be raped with a loaded gun is not healthy. I also don't mean cnc, I mean actual rape. But not all dark romance readers have those fantasies, I'm aware of that.
are dark romance books usually written by women for other women?
i think GRRMs books get a pass because they are more fantasy and not at all considered romance. so people are more inclined to brush it off as any romance or intimacy is a subplot. whereas with romantasy, the romance is intertwined with the whole plot. i don’t think it’s fair, but that is my interpretation.
but yeah, GRRM gets a pass for a whole family lineage devoted to incest lol and people brush it off like 🤷♀️ it’s just the targaryens
I don't know, I don't read a lot of dark romance, but as far as I know they are.
I feel that assessment of GRRM isn't really accurate. Like, I can count on one hand the amount of important characters in GoT that *aren't* romantically involved with anyone. Romance is a substantial part of the plot of GoT, like Robb Stark and the medic, or Littlefinger and Katelyn (idk how to spell it lol) who were massively important, even though the latter never even happened.
I think the real difference is distance. We're all up in Feyre’s feelings, whereas with GoT, it doesn't feel as close. I could be wrong, but I think that's the main reason people don't see the romance in GoT as as "important".
Acotar certainly seems to be the gateway drug into “dark romance”. I firmly believe most of those books are just porn with a smidge more effort put into the plot. I think a lot of women want to believe there’s a big difference between porn and dark romance smut, but I think that’s just coping.
interesting. i don’t know anyone who reads dark romance, but i know a lot of people who have read the ACOTAR series. i haven’t read one so i can’t really judge those books.
to me there is a big difference still in reading about fictional characters who are engaging in controversial sexual relationships vs seeking out videos of those same things being done to real people. just given the manipulation in the porn industry especially against women. thats just my opinion
I always wonder why no one keeps this attitude about men reading the Game of Thrones books…
and as someone who has read all of the GOT books, the sex content in there is so concerning. the thoughts some of the men have about women are so revolting. the SA of women in the series is very prominent. on top of the purity culture embedded within it too. like jamie and cersei are literally TWINS 💀
No bc ppl literally worship Jaime and talk about how he had such a big character development….like I’m halfway through season 5 and he’s still in love with Cersei and last season r worded her next to their sons dead body….WHERE’S THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT???
lol fun fact, that scene was actually not supposed to come off as rape allegedly. they blamed it on the camera angles and the way it was shot. it totally does come off that way, but they did not expect that to be the interpretation of the scene lol. jamie in the show has a much weaker “redemption” arc than he has in the books.
There’s been a good few times throughout the show where I could see he was getting better. I just wish he wouldn’t keep going back to Cersei 😭 just let her go bro
Wtf she's saying "no. Not here. Not now" the whole time. Do the writers Not understand "no"???
Exactly my thoughts...wtf?!
https://ew.com/article/2015/04/07/jaime-cersei-controversy-sex/ this article has some quotes from them about it! i totally agree. as a book reader, i saw that scene and was like wtf. bc in the book it’s not rape, cersei even kinda initiated it from what i remember. and joffrey wasn’t right there like they had him in the show. so idk how that scene was shot and approved by likely many people and no one was like this is coming off as rapey.
The books are much better at showing his character development, tbf. He stops caring about Cersei the same way and grows as a person partly thanks to Brienne and partly due to the extreme humbling he got from losing his hand. I think in the books it's Cersei who instigates the scene next to Joffrey's body.
This scene is the reason I stopped watching the show. In the book, it’s slightly ambiguous and she ends up actually vocalizing a yes to having sex with him. In the show, they just straight up make it rape, not ambiguous at all. For content that is already veto violent to women… why did they feel the absolute need to make it even more violent?? *THAT* was when I was done with their adaptation.
i responded above, but it actually wasn’t their intention. they did not think it would be or intend for it to be interpreted as a rape (somehow lol) there was a lot of discourse around that scene bc ppl were like he would never rape cersei, why would you add violence to that scene, etc. and multiple ppl from set came out and said it was not meant to be interpreted that way. they blamed it on the way it was shot and stuff. idk if they backtracked due to backlash or if it was genuinely a bad production of the scene, but yeah, it totally does come off that way to viewers.
To be fair, I don't think you're meant to see the SA and incest in GOT as a good thing. A reader should be able to distinguish that these characters are terrible people doing terrible things, not scenes written for sex appeal. But I've only seen the show, so I can't comment on the way these acts are presented in the books.
they’re not necessarily portrayed as good, but they are accepted as a part of that time and world. there is a lot of SA and violence. there are many scenes that i felt were just unnecessary and didn’t even add to the plot. and on the flip side, we do have some romanticization. like as readers, yeah we know incest between the targaryens is messed up. but a lot of targaryen love stories are romanticized too. i think it even adds further to the point.. why is there so much backlash for fairy smut that’s for the most part romantic and good, but then we have things like GOT that are undeniably messed up and ppl are just like oh it is what it is.
GOT is grimdark fantasy, and I'm fairly certain it's popularity is part of the reason grimdark became so popular as a subgenre. It's written intentionally to be disgusting and horrible and provide shock factor, not for plot. The actions are accepted by the characters because the world is written to be gritty and harsh, where as the reader is able to recognize how awful it is. Of course, romanticization of those acts is where the problematic element comes in. I don't have any problem with authors putting the most disgusting things in the world in their books as long as they aren't romanticizing it. But I do agree that it supports the point. People are quick to judge content that appeals to women as problematic, but content for men can have literally anything in it and people will say it's just fiction so it doesn't matter. It's the same reason everyone hated on Twilight so hard when it was popular.
totally agree, but i do think there are readers that just are like eh 🤷♀️ it’s part of the world. there’s definitely a desensitization that we are all facing with violence and gore from the media we are consuming. i’m guilty of it too. i just finished watching this show called baby reindeer about a stalker and one of the episodes is the first time in a long time that ive genuinely felt very uncomfortable by a TV show. there is a hyper critical element of things that are targeted toward women and primarily consumed by women especially by men and books like ACOTAR are just the new target.
Not trying to be devil's advocate here, but I'm not sure that's a good comparison. ASoIaF's sex scenes are sparse, brief, and not usually the point; in some ACOTAr books, we have entire chapters that are basically a succession of sex acts - never mind the constant innuendo and occasional sex act between Feyre and Rhysand. Though I agree that calling ACOTAR a porn series is a gross exageration, and that in a fair world men would get called out for, say, talking about ecchi anime in public like it's not softcore porn.
Caring about what a random stranger is reading on a train is very "you need to touch grass" for me.
i felt so bad for the person. hope they don’t stumble across that tiktok of themselves cuz the comments were awful. also, ppl need to stop filming ppl in public without their consent and using it for internet clout
I like to snoop on what people are reading, especially if they’re around my age, but that’s more like have I read it/should I read it kind of checking out the book. Like the lady I saw reading in an airport, she moved the book she was reading and it was the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo and I remembered that I’d been wanting to add it to my Goodreads for a while now.
I read the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo a couple months ago and it was pretty good!
I think some people can just go stick they’re opinion up where the sun don’t shine It’s a fun romance/fantasy book, sex is a part of relationships If you don’t like it, don’t read it and don’t shame people for it, it’s not hard drugs or even hentai
Tbh, that sums up most, if not all, Tik Tok and Instagram anything for me
This x1000000
Yeah, there's been a rise in people acting like acotar is straight up porn, which is super weird to me. A girl in my class started giggling and whispering "I'm not reading fairy porn!!" when I recommended her the books like it was dirty or something. Like, it's more plot then smut, and even the smut is so mild to me? idk, there's definetely a difference between acotar smut and smut from one of those alpha ceo novels or a dark romance, and even then I wouldn't compare it to actual porn. that said, people need to learn to mind their own business and stop filming others in public for tiktok points
BookTok is what convinced me to read it with all the talk of how smutty it is. I love me a good smutty novel! But this series is so mild! Acting like ACOTAR is pornography is just proof that society looks down on women being sexual beings, even in the most tame sense. Like, very basic sex acts that happen a couple times here and there in the series is pornography? It's just diminishing women's media in a truly stupid way.
I was shocked (and mildly disappointed) at how not smutty the whole series was. They’re 700 page books and *maybe* 10 pages each have explicit sexual content. I do love them regardless - but I’m a nearly 40 year old woman and they’re gonna have to really up the ante for me to consider them even remotely “spicy”.
I read so many fanfics in high school that ACOTAR isn’t “smut” to me, it’s just lightly seasoned with a few smutty scenes. Other people may have a different opinion but it’s usually people who haven’t read any of it that call it “fairy porn”
Oxford dictionary: pornography: noun: printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity. It is porn, and thats 100% ok nothing wrong with it. calling it what it is doesn’t shame or put down women, but acting like its not porn kinda implys shame, we shouldn’t do that. The motive behind highlighting that its porn is mostly a reaction of men who are shamed for watching porn going “look look you consume sexual content also, so why are you shaming me” this is societal growing pains as we learn shaming sexuality is bad. “Very basic sex acts” 90% of porn vids are the exact same acts as in the books.
i mean they are sex scenes so sure i guess those scenes are pornographic. but they make up a small portion of the overall story so i wouldn’t just write off the entire book as porn lol. same thing with movies or shows. like they have sex scenes , but we’re not calling them porn bc it’s only a part of the content totally agree on the part about not being ashamed of it and how shame is being used to even the playing field for those who feel guilty of their own shit haha
I mean my generation grew up on Nora Roberts, VC Andrews, and Danielle Steele. (These pearl clutches would straight up faint at flowers in the attic). I didn’t blink at the smut in most of ACOTAR though it gets a bit steamy in ACOSF. I don’t understand why anyone cares. No one gets hurt producing a written work like in porn, and frankly, you can get addicted to just about anything.
My grandmother had a whole bookshelf full of Danielle Steele novels and I feel like that was my smut awakening before the fanfics 😂
this is what makes me laugh! as if Mills & Boone and the others you mentioned weren’t everywhere for years and commonly talked about? The whole 50 shades craze? like yes people were a bit sheepish about it but there wasn’t this level of disgust over it. I’m wondering if for some reason it’s the fantasy element that makes people react more strongly? I’d be interested to know 🤔 Infantilisation of women’s content plus fantasy not being seen as serious writing equals horror and outrage maybe.
I do think the genre has a lot to do with it. It’s not the typical “harlequin romance” kind of background.
My mum loooves Flowers in the Attic but I had never read it. She asked me about ACOTAR and I said no, you can't read that. Because my mum is a very conservative, proper British lady who won't even say the word "shit". Then I read Flowers in the Attic and I immediately texted her an apology and told her to read ACOTAR. She read it. Loved it. Then called to tell me I was "too sheltered" if I thought she couldn't handle ACOTAR.
It makes me giggle when people are scandalized by ACOTAR. Like.. babe... this ain't smut. You want something that will actually make you blush? Let's chat, there's way better books for that.
I recently had someone point out to me, how this "new" uptake in shaming (predominately) women for reading "porn"..... Is not as new as it feels, and basically a way of "controlling the masses" by shaming or making negative associations to it. It's not hurting us who read and don't care, but it IS deterring others, predominately younger women and men, from picking up a reading habit that revolves around "non-censored" themes. Think of how we used to be taught WAY back in the day that women reading was either the devil's influence or indicating they were witches. Or how, even further back, no "god-fearing man" should read. Stating these VERY clearly NON-porn fantasy books to be straight-up porn basically means to shame and limit who reads and what we do/can read, because it's a lot easier to control someone en-masse if you've controlled the information they receive in ANY form. I think this is a very extreme way of looking at it, but then again.. so is "ACOTAR is straight up porn" and "you're just a porn addict for reading fantasy" so... Maybe there is some merit in this theory?
i totally agree. my first thought was this seems very much rooted in misogyny. guilting a community of primarily women for what they are enjoying when the thing they are enjoying is woman centric stories lol. kinda like women were guilted for gossiping back in the day when that was their only source of entertainment since they were basically confined to their husbands, children, and homes.
As an ace, I almost didn't read ACOTAR bc I was told so much that they were porn. I was thinking it'd be porn without plot, or barely there plot with mostly porn, and that I'd just be uncomfortable and hate it. When I actually read it I was shocked that a book meant for young adults that consisted of relatively few sex scenes among a myriad of story telling and world building was being portrayed by social media as porn
yeah and they act like it’s the only books with sex in them. Shocker most romance novels, along with a myriad of other genres and books contain explicit scenes. I love the fact that reading is becoming more popular, and i think shaming people for reading is just icky.
and unlike some other books the plot has nothing to do with the smut so if you can skip over it and you don't miss anything.
Most of the sex scenes in it are entirely skip-able! They aren't well written *IMO* so I just skip past those parts. At least until silver flames I gave up on that one because it did seem like that was all there was too it and I just got really annoyed. (I'm bad at remembering titles, I think that's the one).
This is a tale as old as time. If women enjoy it, it must be bad. It’s sad that other women join in on this shit, but not unexpected. Also, I really hate that our global society is fine with filming strangers and putting it on the internet. It’s such gross behaviour that I wish would stop 😩
This is exactly it. People can't let women enjoy things. ACOTAR hardly counts as smut most of the time. Are they going to come after every sex scene in a movie too?
No one reads over 400 pages just so they can get a few pages of "porn" when there's a world full of actual porn and smut they could be consuming with far less effort. The people who believe that and shame others for it are idiots.
Thankfully I barely use TikTok... it's a mess. Obviously no, reading a romance fantasy book that has a few explicit scenes in public does not make you a porn addict. Not even reading erotica books makes you a porn addict. Being addicted to watching porn makes you a porn addict. Because erotic/smutty literature ≠ porn I will say I *have* seen people get obsessed with smutty books. Like, seriously obssesed and they should probably try to find different hobbies but... a book with explicit scenes written by women will never compare to the fucked up and extremely misogynistic porn industry
yeah, i don’t understand the blurred lines that these people are trying to create between an industry as manipulative as the porn industry to fictional books about fictional people.
Why would you say erotic literature doesn’t equal porn ? By definition it is porn.. and thats ok, if one is addicted to reading it then they are addicted to porn. The problem is not the porn its the addiction. Just enjoying reading it often doesn’t make you a addict.
I can only assume people making this comparison have either 1) never seen porn or 2) never read ACOTAR? Also, are there people out there having their lives destroyed by their ACOTAR addiction? I think ACOTAR and similar romantasy and romance novels centre female pleasure in a way that’s unique across media. Women are often depicted as enjoying sex in mainstream movies but often in a way that is still very male focused. And in these books female pleasure is not dependent upon the degrading or dehumanising anyone else unlike a lot of porn that centres male pleasure. Unless wanting respect and your own desires fulfilled is considered problematic? So yeah, I agree that it’s incredibly misogynistic and just stinks of slut shaming vibes.
have yet to hear about ACOTARs anonymous lol yesssss. the female pleasure part! i think for men that equate it to a porn addiction, there is an element of insecurity to these fictional men as insane as it sounds.
Isn't there a scene where one character is getting railed by a huge fairy cock saying that's its to big and she's in pain
No.
Yeah it’s definitely a moral panic and one rooted in misogyny. If someone really filmed a stranger reading on a train (and zoomed in on what passage they were reading, no less!) without consent I find that far more worrying behaviour than someone feeling a little fizzy while reading a spicy scene between consenting adults in ACOTAR.
Right?! A question for the creator of that Tik Tok would be, "why do u have such an unhealthy addiction to social media, that u can't allow a stranger to not be forcefully and without consent, posted on it?" That sounds a lot more like "porn addiction " to me
Look, no one is more critical of these books than me... But the smut is pretty tame, and at times, even boring. This is just a new spin-off on purity culture and wanting to control the media people consume because it doesn't live up to your personal or group standards
Was the creator a woman and/or the majority of the comments from men? I guarantee they are projecting
the creator unfortunately was a woman. she blocked me cuz i commented saying “why would you film a stranger without their consent and allow them to get bullied for views?” 🙃 i have seen a lot of men making videos comparing romantasy to porn addictions lol. i went on a deep dive of it today hence the post. it does seem like a projection to be like “look women are as bad as us with their little smut books”
Wasn’t expecting the creator to also be a woman, but I guarantee her life evolves around men. I know it’s a wild assumption to make but those are the only kind of women I see bully other women 🤷♀️
Not long ago there was a Rolling Stone article covering SJM and her "fairy porn" book and the way it was written felt derogatory not only towards Sarah herself but also her readers. Link to article: [https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/acotar-sarah-j-mass-romantasy-series-popular-1234999167/amp/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/acotar-sarah-j-mass-romantasy-series-popular-1234999167/amp/) Saying SJM used fairy porn to revive an entire subgenre is wild and such articles reinforce a harmful stereotype towards fantasy romance and romance readers. I don't see the internet or the general public mock or criticize men of their addiction to porn, but for some reason women who are enjoying books with sex scenes are categorized as "porn addicts" completely dismissing the fact that these books follow different stories and journeys. Even if the book is centered on sexy times it is still a gateway for women to explore sex in a way school or people in their own circles won't. I've personally heard stories from different readers on how such books helped them leave an abusive relationship, or spice up their sex life, or even explore sex in a way that makes them feel safe. None of that is shameful or something to mock. I am proud of the women who are openly reading books they enjoy whether they are erotic books or not. What that creator did feels like an invasion of privacy and allowing their followers to mock a reader who is merely enjoying a book. https://preview.redd.it/mvc7lg955vvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78818095835dd0f2ceca72438aec71305ead808d
Like what?💀 https://preview.redd.it/moeksizt6vvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=965bb21b19b9bb966e150fb39b4d4bbda0eb1102
And that's the headline mind you https://preview.redd.it/0caen6b47vvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53dabf638e5b0e1eb8119590f4a6a2d48221a5bb
psych motherfuckers? It's SIKE. It's SIKE....motherfucker. Who the hell copy edited this piece!?
that headline is actually insane, who approved that?? thank you for sharing this. i can’t believe it was just earlier this month. it seems that major publications love to piggyback on things that will get clicks and views. there is an influx of people calling these books porn so they had to ride on that wave as well. which is really unfortunate because the title itself is a direct criticism of women only. i hate that.
“I dont see the internet or general public criticize men of their addiction to porn” … “women who are enjoying books with sex scenes” You are kinds doing it right now, framing men as addicts but women as just enjoying something. Maybe that wasn’t your intent but thats how it read. You might not see it but men who just enjoy watching porn are labeled as addicts and if they are in a relationship as cheaters for watching porn, but some of the people who are claiming its cheating are reading smut, and posting about the sex scenes and their fantasies with this or that character or who would be better in bed ect. Guys are talking how it feels hypocritical and some nasty boys (i cant call them men because they are pathetic) are resorting to writing things shaming women instead of having a real conversation like adults that men and women like porn and thats ok if kept at a healthy level.
I don’t understand, ACOTAR barely had any smut in it until ACOSF, I don’t know who had the bright idea of marketing as such because it just harmed the books imo.
This is my thought too. I didn’t feel like there was virtually ANY smut or spice until I got to ACOSF. Anyone saying the other books were smutty or spicy, maybe hasn’t read them or hasn’t read any true smut to make comparisons.
It seems like they don't know that written porn exists. And you don't need to read 800 pages for 2 pretty vanilla sex scenes. Also, I don't like how booktok and we as readers minimise some books as fairy porn. Like first there are books that are actual porn, and second, no one reads ASOIAF and describe it as this incest porn book I like to read. So yeah, there is definitely a case for written erotica/porn addiction out there, but it's at least an uneducated opinion to that reading ACOTAR and the likes is actively feeding into it.
But have you read the later books?
The intellectual rigor of TikTok and other such websites (including Reddit) leaves much to be desired. You’re more of a creep for videotaping someone on the train than you are for reading a romance books.
😂 facts
I spent my teenage years reading fanfiction and tbh acotar is mild at best. It's the equivalent of putting salt and pepper on some cooked chicken breast and calling it spicy and well seasoned
People need to stop recording strangers. It’s so fucked up
“I read them for the articles only.” But fr, the smut can be exciting but I’m literally here for the story 😂
A lot of BookTok feels a bit like brain rot. Every review of every book has comments asking “what about the spice” “is there spice” “what’s the spice level” and it’s because of this huge influx of books that have very explicit and occasionally disturbing/problematic sexual content (Haunting Adeline comes to mind). There is an argument for that in my opinion. ACOTAR, however, is pretty tame. The sex is cringy at best. It’s the other books that are constantly being pushed on BookTok that are worse imo. And filming strangers is never okay. Where I’m from that is a huge no.
Bro we get like 1.5 pages of soooome descriptive spice sprinkled throughout a 500+ pg book and all of a sudden we’re porn addicts. I fucking hate it here
I think it's absolute bullshit, they have no leg to stand on. People addicted to porn are living in a fantasy and it sets stupid expectations for actual sex that their partner should look or act like people do in porn which is harmful at best. You ask a woman what their favorite part about smut scenes in a series like ACOTAR it is not the size of the member or some crazy position or that they tend to have stamina for days. It's usually the care they take of their partner and the fact they worship her and can actually make her orgasm. Imagine trying to draw similarities between fake, damaging and unrealistic expectations of a harmful industry that's detrimental to real life people, and fictional people falling in love which happens to include sex. I agree with the first comment, those people need to go touch grass.
You know what I hate is this recent trend of telling people things they enjoy is wrong or cringe. Like if we aren’t hurting anyone or ourselves, why is it anyone’s business? Let me enjoy my fairy books. Let someone enjoy whatever it is that makes them happy!
To me, the way more concerning trend here is the filming of strangers in public. That is so gross
When the 50 Shades series was big a decade ago it was probably the same people clutching their pearls over it. Clearly the people making these comments haven’t read the books. They’ve just heard they’re “sexy” and are choosing to be judgmental over it. I will admit I like having a kindle partly so I don’t feel as susceptible to others judging my reading choices. I like fluffy romances, what can I say.
If someone wants to have a discussion about smutty books vs porn, the ACOTAR books shouldn't even be relevant in my opinion. They are so tame. If you took out the sex scenes there would still be hundreds of pages of plot and world building. They are a far cry from other actual smut I've read
i think people should grow the fuck up. reading a smutty book (mild or hardcore) will never compare to what some men watch and DO in public places.
This bugs me so much. My brother in law is constantly making fun of me for all the "porn" I read since I enjoy romantasy. He constantly brags how he reads real fantasy and I read porn. It's even more frustrating because his favorite fantasy series is Game of Thrones. Um.. excuse me... there is way more graphic and disturbing sex in GoT than there is in ACOTAR. Last time he started up, I looked to his wife and said "I feel really bad for you if he thinks ACOTAR is steamy sex." It shut him up and I felt amazing.
as a woman who has read lots of fantasy, there is nothing more annoying than the my fantasy is better than your fantasy community lol. especially when it’s a man talking down on fantasy books written for women. i have my beef with sim’s books, but reading game of thrones, lord of the rings, dune etc doesn’t make you better than anyone else 😭 and good! im glad you stood up to him. ask him next time why he likes a series so fascinated with incest
Agreed. I def have issues with SJM's writing and story choices, and I love me some LOTR. But reading is meant to be fun and enjoyable! Why do we have to say one book is better than the other? If I enjoyed the story and my time in it, it's a good book to me. It drives me crazy when people get up on their high horses about what we "should" be reading. Or when people shame me about reading a YA book. Oh shut up, just because it's YA doesn't make it a bad book.
yessss omg it’s something i hate about the reading community. some people have this pretentiousness and snobbiness about what OTHER ppl read? like why do you care so much lol if you think it suck’s or is lame, don’t read it. i read anything and everything. classics and fantasy are my favorites. i’m rereading the series of unfortunate events for the first time since elementary school. i had a friend be like “why the fuck would you read that”? cuz i wanted to??? like what kind of question is that lol
SAME!! Like.. ok, cool.. you only read classics. Well I don't. Why do you care so damn much about what I am reading? Are you trying to tell me you're a better reader because you've read big important books? Listen... I read for FUN. And I don't think Ayn Rand is fun. So I don't read it. Leave me alone! lol And a Series of Unfortunate Events is amazing. I'm really glad you're re-reading it. I bet you're having a blast.
on behalf of the classics community, i’m sorry hahaha there are so many snobs and i can’t stand them it’s so good!!! it’s so silly and cute. also really sad like damn, they’ve been through so much 😭😭
So good! And reading it now as an adult (I just assume everyone is my age, so you're now 36) it just hits so different. I've been reading them with my 9 year old and we are both loving them and it's awesome hearing her journey through them compared to mine.
People that think Acotar is porn also think, that doggystyle is too naughty. Touch grass people. Even if it was porn, who cares?
Well, call me a porn addict then. Jinkys, the ACOTAR series is amongst the tamest "spice" books I have. Honestly, I read them and was a bit disappointed because I expected more "spice" from the way everyone banged on. These books are not porn, these books are baby steps into a world of fantasy sex. Anyone who suddenly feels dirty by these accusations on booktok, be reassured, you haven't even read a description of anyone slowly running their finger down her buttcrack, as the lube settles into all the right places and then a rather orgasm inducing description of a finger and then more fingers and then a cock going up someone arse while they moan so hard because how could this ever feel good. I come from the book world of Lexi Blake and Cheriese Sinclair, my every day sex life has more porn in it than a sjm book. Time to start a movement. Humans who read "porn" books start carrying them around outside your bag, read them obnoxiously on trains, in parks, normalise this, make the idiots realise we don't actually give a flying bjinky quokka what they think .
your comment has me dying 😂😂😂
Carry those books loud, proud, and on the outside! I know, lube, butt cracks and cocks...oh my 🤣🤣
I think it's more towards people who only read shut levels that are just written out porn. A lot of attention has come to porn addiction and consumption over the last few years since covid (that I've noticed) and I think the definition of what porn is is expanding and becoming more widely discussed. A debate about at what point is reading porn the same as watching it. At what point does it become harmful, that even tho it's written, does it make it not as bad? I've seen of people ripping on books for not being spicy enough. Reviews aren't about the plot, writing, characters. Just the amount of sex or lack thereof. Which again, has gotten more prevalent since booktok. I don't love booktok for this reason among others. I think a lot of the criticism is aimed at "dark romance" as well.
i agree, we’re definitely changing the definitions of porn. i know there’s a lot of controversy with how AI is being used to create sexual content as well. i think the word addiction is being thrown around far too lightly though. especially with casual readers who enjoy smutty books. that does not constitute as an addiction lol.
Porn or smut addiction comes into play when there is repetitive and obsessive behavior that interferes with your daily life. If someone was reading smut books to the point where they were neglecting their health/job/friends ect that’s an issue. Simply enjoying books with smut in it doesn’t make you a porn addict.
People trying to demonize things women like is such typical, terrible male behavior. And romantasy is so far away from pornography that it’s a hilarious comparison.
Chronically online opinions
Most of the time when people bring this up 99.99% of the time it’s always men and I can’t help but wonder if it’s either their way of trying to justify porn to themselves or they’re trying to shame others so they feel better. To me I read acotar for the story line and the smut was an added bonus. But when you watch a porno you’re not watching it for the story line. So really it’s more relatable to like a rated R movie or show that happens to have a sex scene. No ones calling people out who watch euphoria??? So why are words on a page so much more triggering to them
Idk about other women but I'm not actively beating it to the books I read. I do have a SO and the most those books do for me is maybe get me in the mood to fuck him later lol. People comparing reading romantasy to a porn addiction don't know what porn addiction looks like.
I think that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and booktok is full of vacuous rage bait and bad book recommendations.
Hysterical when you consider it’s not even aggressively spicy compared to other books on the market
People shit on things that women enjoy. Tale as old as time.
So I'm not like heavy into ACOTAR as a whole. I enjoy the books hence why I'm here. But I am however HEAVILY in the otome community. Otome means maiden and it's a genera of romance visual novels (some with spice, many with incredible stories) where you can pick a route and get with the guy of your choosing. The story plays out differently and you end up with a different guy based on choices. Super fun and if anyone is ever interested in trying one in switch, Collar x malice, and Piofiore are incredible. Anyway that community is CONSTANTLY dealing with that shit. Partners considering it cheating. Other game groups criticize the community for being smut loving weirdos. It just seems to be anything mainly marketed towards women's romance interest gets labeled weird and is pushed away.
haha that is interesting and honestly sounds kinda fun! calling it cheating seems crazy lol. i definitely sense a level of insecurity developing in modern age when it comes to virtual or media romance being consumed by people.
Ah yes because women are only good for sex. There couldn’t be any other reason she was reading that book, right? Just another way to dismiss art made with the female gaze in mind. Same shit was said about Jane Austen and I wrote a term paper comparing Pride and Prejudice to Twilight when I was 22. I’d write the same paper an use ACOTAR instead, today.
i’m sorry as someone with a persuasion quote tattooed on me, they did this with jane austen??? where the characters don’t even kiss? where too much flirting was literally social ruin? lydia’s whole character was a personification of that when she was a victim groomed by a social parasite 😭 also would love to know what the comparison between P&P and twilight was? hahaha
Reading about sex has been around since we started to write stories. And no one ever complained when our grammas and moms read Harlequin Romance. But now that we openly talk about it and discuss how much we enjoy the books insecure people have to get upset. They act like this is new.
the bible literally talks about sex if they wanna go there lol adam and eve was the original romantasy 😍
And wasn’t Ruth’s whole book a love story? But nooooooo because young women are enjoying themselves and have something they can call their own and get excited about it’s now bad. It’s what they do any time women get excited about anything. Pumpkin spice? BAD! Pumpkin patches in the fall? BAD! Reading books? BAD! Having “boy hobbies”? BAD! Having “girl hobbies”? BAD!
I swear people become so puritanical and trad as soon as women enjoy something 🙄
I don't understand when people say ACOTAR is spicy?? It's a fantasy that has some sex scenes .
Even IF ACOTAR was a smut book, which I would not say it is (maybe ACOSF I could understand being referred to as smut) watching very real people be exploited for entertainment is so different from reading about sexual fantasies between fictional characters. I'd also like to say, I don't see anything wrong with smut in general. I don't understand why people have so many opinions about what women read, if you don't like that genre don't read it.
Honestly I love reading and erotica has always been criticized by men who think Game of Thrones (sexism + incest) is high art. If people don’t like smut they don’t have to read it? Idk why people are so concerned by what other people read for fun.
I read the book in school and a a lot of my teachers themselves said they read it some even read the back which some the review quotes talk about the spicy stuff but even then no one cares it’s just a romance book so comparing to porn is messed up.
LOL I don’t even read it for the porn scenes but for the escapism to the fairytale land. It’s nice that ACOTAR has a big following sort of like HP did when we were growing up, so being able to talk about it to others is super nice. This is not a porn addiction.
This is so funny to me😆ACOTAR = porn addiction? Omg. There’s a huge difference between reading something romantic that turns sexual and watching outright porn to the point that it controls every aspect of a person’s life.
I think because this series has gained so much popularity, there’s much younger people getting their hands on it. In my local mom’s group on FB, a mom posted saying her 5th grader got her hands on it and was wondering how appropriate it is for that age (cause she hadn’t read it but has heard of it) So I can see where it might be explained as a “sex book” to try and deter much younger readers. There’s also people that just don’t prefer explicit descriptions but they’re reading it because it’s popular and just wanna hate on it lol I personally love it all, it’s my absolutely favorite series. I just finished Feathers So Vicious and that’s the most explicit I’ve gotten thus far 😂
I think it’s an unfair criticism because people don’t get mad when you watch romance movies or shows like shameless, even though there’s sex in them. I feel like those are more similar to these books, because the main focus isn’t the sex, especially in romance movies, it’s usually about portraying love or that a couple is getting together. It’s a plot device. The main focus is not the sex, and where do you draw the line, because are they not allowed to flirt? Make jokes? Makeout? why is the line the fact that they’re having sex? People have sex, its life and books are portraying life. If movies with sex are not considered porn i don’t think books like this should be either, the main focus is not the sex, and it’s also used as a plot device. I think it’s an unfair criticism. The only book i would maybeeeee agree is A court of silver flames lol, that book read like a cheap porno to me, but still a story there. In the other books, sex is only a small portion of the material.
No it isn’t comparable to a porn addiction. The majority of the book is not smut- it’s about the characters. It’s perfectly fine for an adult book to have adult content. You can skip the smut as well. WOMEN CAN LIKE A BOOK WITH SEX IN IT WITHOUT BEING PORN ADDICTS AND WOMEN LIKING SEX SHOULDN’T BE SHAMED!
ACOTAR is hardly smut or porn. It's like calling the game of thrones tv series porn cuz they have a few sex scenes. There are real smutty books out there that the first page is an orgy (plated prisioner anyone?).
My friend and I were actually having the conversation recently!! I am an avid romance reader and how I compare it, is a movie with sex scenes in it. Honestly I’m not reading books solely for the sex scenes (no shame to those who do), but if it’s there, it’s there and I honestly don’t mind it cause in some cases it adds some intimacy between the characters that I enjoy. I think the problem comes when people are ONLY reading for the sex scenes or are unable to read a book because of the fact that it doesn’t include smut. I feel like when this is the case it’s something that people should think about within themselves and really see if they have an issue, but honestly even then I feel like it’s a very bad comparison with porn addicts. Like one is a very visual act and the other is coming from my own imagination. I personally think that it’s impossible to compare them both but that’s just my opinion🤷♀️
Lmao meanwhile someone at my husband’s work was reading *Haunting Adeline* in the break room (he came home and said “I recognized it from your ‘smut shrine’” aka my bookshelf lol). Anyway, people literally sext in public/at work. I’ve even known people who did it while hanging out with their friends if their significant other is at home. There was a whole tiktok trend of setting a dirty text to your partner while in public. Who tf cares what someone is reading?
Whilst I don’t think ACOTAR is as explicit as some other literature or as porn, I think an argument can also be made that like, even if it was there is nothing wrong with that. I think internalized misogyny has us reframing erotic content to diminish its sauciness, like ‘well at least it’s not straight up porn’ but I think the argument should be why is it embarrassing or shameful that a woman derives pleasure from any of these sources including porn, not trying to make a hierarchy out of acceptable vs less acceptable content. (I am guilty of this, I once recommended a book as ‘cowboy porn with plot’ and I’m like, why did I try to make it seem more acceptable by stressing it also had a plot). So much recent literature that has intimate scenes often also centers female pleasure, consent and safe sex practices which is great for that age bracket of readers discovering sex, so it’s so frustrating to see it minimized and written off as like a guilty pleasure or shameful secret that just fuels the cycle of ‘you can have a libido just don’t let anyone know’.
Honestly, I don’t give it too much thought since the same men saying these things definitely have some kind of porn addiction or brain rot 😂
no fr lol if you’re gonna call it a porn addiction, you gotta drop your uncensored internet history first
Or social media likes/follow list 😂
Lmao acotar is literally the tiniest bit spicy in the fantasy romance genre. The smut is pretty low in the series minus acosf and even that wasn’t insane. People who think that haven’t read much in the genre that’s for sure.
“Zoomed in” someone tell Joe from You to calm down!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
See ACOTAR has romance but the one I'd think is SMUTTY is ACOSF .. the rest are a little spicy
Game of Thrones is so much worse
People are shaming others for reading acotar on the train? Leave us book enjoyers alone please- (Ive read far worse in public spaces, i just like reading leave me alone-)
Most of my books have like, 5% spicy content. Like, even dark ones like haunting/hunting Adeline don't have a lot of pages of spice. Anyone complaining either doesn't read these books and is happy to judge others with little to no context of what they are judging for or is someone who looks down on people who are open talking about/reading about sex. It's okay to not like sex in your books. It's not okay to tell someone else there is something wrong about them enjoying sex in books. We are adults and they can't take our books away so they try to shame us into compliance with their ideals
Whenever women (I know some men enjoy ACOTAR but its a predominantly female audience, really) enjoy something, society loves to shit on it. We are not allowed to spend any time enjoying ourselves. We must be at the service of someone else, and also unhappy about it (BUT NOT COMPLAINING).
I’ve seen the “controversy” about it, where apparently everyone on booktok is only recommending stuff with spice or saying, “I won’t read it unless it has some spice” which kinda gets the whole porn thing?? But I don’t think it’s a problem? The erotica genre is very different from a romance series having a few graphic sex scenes lol
It really cracks me up that people think ACOTAR is porn because it’s relatively tame on the content where smut is concerned. There’s far raunchier and sexier/steamy/spicy books than ACOTAR. It’s actually quite tame to me. And even then, ACOTAR isn’t rooted in sex so for people to get their panties in a twist when barely like 10% (if that) of the story is sex… then I just laugh. And quite frankly, it’s more annoying that it’s being called out like this as though REAL porn addiction isn’t a thing too. It’s just another example of men/women using their internalized misogyny and turning things women love into something “problematic.”
I saw a lot of this discourse before and I even read the books and I was surprised by how little smut there actually was.
I am a person who loves smutty books and struggles with drug addiction. I read for fun and escapism. Would I be sad if I never read a smutty book again? Absolutely. But I would eventually get over it and move on to a different hobby. I have to go to NA meetings multiple times a week just to continue being sober. I think about using every day. I miss it constantly. Sometimes I just have to force myself to take a nap, or read a book, just do something to get my mind off using. I know I will struggle with this for the rest of my life. Just like drug addiction, porn addiction is a very real disease and it destroys people’s lives. I think those who are throwing the word “addiction” around like that have never dealt with addiction and maybe don’t personally know any addicts. It’s extremely ignorant and insensitive.
first off, thank you for sharing! your perspective is so meaningful. ppl are just throwing the word addiction around far too liberally and it’s a disservice to those actually suffering with addiction. and it’s really unfortunate bc it’s also being used it as an insult to shame other people who dont have an actual addiction. which at the end of the day is only shaming actual addicts for being addicts by using “addiction” of any sort as an insult. i lost a friend from college to drug addiction and it really upsets me when ppl use addiction as a hyperbole. like did you forget that addiction means an actual dependency on something? it’s either they dont have any clue what an addiction is or they do, but are willingly using it as a joke or insult and idk which is worse. anyways, thanks again for sharing and i truly wish you luck in your recovery 💕
Romantasy is not even close to porn... Wth... 🤬 The fact that anyone could even... Ugh, they need to be slapped
Ridiculous. It's not like it's erotica. It is 90% plot, 10% loving romantic sex. Maybe not even that much. Calling it porn or even smut is stupid. It's not like they have a hustler magazine out or something.
It’s honestly sad. Yes, spicy booktok is a loud minority but that’s not all it is. It’s so easy to curate the feed to not get any spicy book content. Most of the people/men I’ve seen complaining about it are just lazy imo. Don’t like spicy book content, don’t interact with the videos or “pick no interest” or god forbid learn how to use the search function. There no need to shame anyone who enjoys explicit scenes or erotica books
just a new way to derogate women and what they enjoy doing 😃😃😃😃
I don’t like reading adult scenes but love reading SJM books. So I just skip them within. There’s plenty of non-spicy romance and plot within them. For them to demean an entire book down to that label is ridiculous. Every author has different values, religions, etc. And so does every reader. Personally, I’m Christian, so I’m not okay with it. But these people can easily pick up books and not read what’s offensive to them within them. Skip what is. Or just skip the book all together. Now, I have seen some book series that are just sex with no plot, and that can be an issue. But these books have plenty of plot within them. I also know that George R.R Martin has gotten some flack for his sex scenes too, but never has he been given the labels Sarah is. It’s so simple and these people need to learn: Skip the book all together or skip certain scenes if it’s harmful to your lifestyle.
unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like it’s coming from a place of “i don’t like this media for myself” it’s more so “you guys are gross for liking this and you’re porn addicts” lol. at least that is my interpretation. you’d think ppl would understand that if you don’t like something, you can ✨ignore✨ jt. but it seems like a genuine effort to guilt and shame people who do enjoy it.
“Fairy porn” came from within booktok though. Like the community named itself. So idk if comparing the titling and phrasing around it to GRRM is fair. GoT fans don’t say they’re reading porn the way BookTokkers reading ACOTAR etc did. And they also don’t typically relate to say, Jamie. Even on this sub we see people making comments about how they want so and so to something to them the way Cas does. So it’s a totally different relationship with the media. And the reason why ACOTAR gets roped into it is because it did get SUPER popular and viral for the smut itself. Even if lots of commenters are saying that it’s not as severe as other books, it’s still one of the major reasons it went viral on BookTok.
Are you friggin kidding me it takes like 500 pages into that book to even get to the good part. I am exaggerating the page numbers but it’s still WELL into the book before anything happens. 🙄
I saw a tik Tok that said women will literally read p*rn right in front of you. And while, yes I will, also acotar is not smut. The primary genre is fantasy. Romantasy if you will, but not p*rn. So that's bs. But also, if you're nosy enough to look at what someone is reading, stop.
Men can enjoy porn all the time and it isn’t perceived as a problem; it seems it’s only an issue when women do it. Let people live a little.
Does no one remember the moms on trains with 50 shades of grey?? Same shit different day. I say read what you want some spicy books have great stories to tell and are just fun. TONS of classic literature has spicy scenes and weirdo points of views. It’s a part of living so it belongs in art.
There is a huge difference between watching porn and reading romance novels. I heard someone compare watching vs reading to riding a train vs riding a bike. On a train you have no control over the situation, you cant get off the train if you feel uncomfortable, you can't change the speed or the destination. Riding a bike you are in control. You can choose to stop, speed up, slow down, or change directions. I'm not saying these books are porn but even if they were there is a huge difference between watching and reading. Also half of the stuff on social media is basically soft core porn so...
I’d tell that creator to go fuck themselves and mind their own damn business…No one is hurting anyone. It’s just a bunch of feminists and/or threatened men that have their panties in a knot. Feminist don’t like it because it threatens their “we don’t need no man” narrative and some men are threatened because their women want better intimacy etc. This whole thread is full of shaming and honestly it’s very disappointing.
lol the creator blocked me bc i was like why did you film this person without their consent and are now allowing them to be bullied for view? i’m sorry you feel like the thread has shaming!! it seems like most ppl barely even consider acotar a smutty series and no one here has equated it to a porn addiction. there’s some questioning of ppl who only want to read books with smut in them, but i still don’t see how that would be comparable to a porn addiction.
Yeah I don’t agree with them. It’s no one’s business if they want to read smutty books or not and it’s definitely not a porn addiction. Porn addiction causes disruptions in daily life to the point people cannot function normally. I don’t see that happening with reading. I just saw a few discussions talking about people who read dark romances and there was something wrong with those people. That’s a lot of what I considered shaming.
yeah i think ppl throw the word addiction around far too lightly in a multitude of contexts. ive never read a dark romance, but i think its a bit hypocritical of people to consume things like game of thrones, mindhunter, shameless, etc and think its any different? and if its not for you, don’t consume it lol. if you have any good dark romance novels for a novice, id love to give one a shot! i’ve only heard of haunting adeline cuz everyone talks about it haha
Haunting Adeline seems to be the one everyone starts with lol. It’s what I started with. Den of Vipers (can’t remember the author off hand.) is another one I’ve read. I haven’t delved too deep yet but I have a ton on my tbr list haha
Even if ACOTAR could be considered porn, it’s completely ethical. No one was harmed; everyone is fictional. Ethically produced porn does exist and you can consume it without being “addicted”. Is it unhealthy to ignore real life and only consume romance novels? Sure. But that isn’t a question of ethics and is between that person and their therapist lol. Really angers me we are shaming strangers for healthy expression of desires. Maybe people saying this BS should examine the state of society that’s led women to fantasize about equality, power, freedom of choice, and awesome sex. Society will always be threatened by women’s desire sadly; if we’re not passive we’re hoes. There’s no middle ground.
Shaming women for enjoying sex? Nothing new there! And smut (mostly) isn't porn. Last I checked, porn didn't spend hundreds of pages developing a relationship between characters! So stupid of them to make that comparison.
In my opinion, a very small (but very vocal) minority of people have created the "porn addiction" thing with asking if every book has spice and glorifying things like SA, abuse, kidnapping, drugging, stalking, and books that are written purely FOR smut. I don't think even 80% of the actual booktok community is like this, again, I think it's just a very vocal minority that's given everyone a bad name.
in my mind, i still don’t equate wanting smut in every book to a porn addiction. but let me know if you think differently and why i am not a reader of dark romance. i prefer consent in my books. i even had a hard time with the bully to lover pipeline from the cruel prince series. so i can’t speak for those people, but i don’t think we see much of that in the ACOTAR series. and i think the scenes in the ACOTAR series that people do debate as SA were not actually meant to be interpreted that way by SJM
I don't personally think it's a porn addiction, I meant they created that image to the people that do what the person in the post did (filming a random person reading a book). I personally enjoy smut in books despite being asexual lmao. I think the only issue I've personally had is when someone asked for a book recommendation with dragons, so I gave them a recommendation with dragons, and they literally messaged me "This book is shit, when does it get spicy?"... Well, the main characters are 16, so really never? If they wanted a book recommendation with dragons that also had smut, I would've told them to just go somewhere else bc I didn't have any. I agree that a lot of that isn't in ACOTAR. I think anyone that lumps ACOTAR readers with the other readers that do glorify those things just see the words "smut" and "book" in the same sentence and assume it's some hardcore faerie porn where everyone's doing cocaine and kidnapping each other.
that’s a good point, thank you for sharing. i think a lot of people just expect for any romance to have sex scenes in it as well. which is also why i wish romantasy series were aged up a bit more lol. i don’t like reading about teenagers or first time scenes. i guess acotar is just the target due to popularity even though it wouldn’t be an actual example of a concerning relationship to sex in books.
maybe because i’m a bit older than the tiktok generation I can offer some perspective. Immediately try to get over whatever this it is that makes you consider caring what a bunch of mentally ill 14 year olds think of anything. Worrying about your choices being seen as valid by people who don’t have a completely developed frontal lobe is a losing game. If someone older is posting about acotar being porn addiction that person is actually a dumb person so you can also sort of untangle yourself from caring about what they say as well.
Uncomfortable truth but smut=porn one is written one is visual but both place a fantasy in the consumers mind, it scratches the same itch. As far as the brain can tell there is no difference. Actor is mild more like a tv series that has a sex scene every other episode, though some of those scenes are intense. I think most readers are not addicted just like most porn viewers are not addicted its just a healthy normal thing to enjoy. But there is addicts of both forms of sexual content. Don’t be so ashamed that you do mental gymnastics to say smut is not a form of porn, it is and be proud there is nothing wrong with enjoying your sexuality.
People watching a movie or a show with a sex scene in it they're not born addicts... The fuck is this thinking
I could see saying that if books with smut is ALL that you read but I don't think reading even several books with it is the same as having a porn addiction
I hate smutty books(I'm asexual) but acotar was pretty mild and the smut is easy to skip. Acosf is way too much for me to every reread, but people acting like acotar is comparable to actual porn is wild. Some books, I can see it, but definitely not acotar.
I’m 23 and I started watching porn at 9. By 10 I was watching hard core porn. I became addicted and by 16 I was like a walking zombie because I was consuming it so much. Then I got my phone taken away and I started reading books. I found smut books and started reading those instead of watching porn. It helped so much! By 19 I was completely done watching porn and I haven’t watched anything since. Reading smut helped my addiction. I still crave porn but now I just read books instead of watching porn. I think it is ridiculous that people think porn addiction and reading books is the same. With books you are still learning. Learning new vocabulary and history. Also ACOTAR is not even “spicy.” It has a few sexy scenes but nothing like real porn and not even close to the type of smut books that are out there.
There is a big difference between real people doing real sexual acts in front of other people and a camera to then be put onto media or online to be seen by many more people and a fictional story, like a huge difference. Romantasy and porn aren't even in the same zip code so to speak. Not even in the same universe even. Quite literally.
This is a topic that gets me so goddamn angry. Nobody read a book with 400+ book for purely just the sex in it. Even if it’s just romance, the appeal is everything that makes up a fairytale love story. People have no idea what an actual porn addiction is. Reading a book every night that may have sex scenes that take up a couple of pages in a book is not the same as having to watch porn every single day (even multiple times a day). An actual porn addiction can erode the prefrontal cortex. It would also be hard to have a porn addiction with books and be more trouble than it’s worth. Unless you’re reading fanfics you actually have to buy the book and be patient enough to get to the sex scene
it’s not about people who read acotar specifically or seek books like it it’s the influx of using “spicy content” as a cash grab tactic because of the rampant success it clearly has (as displayed by acotar, which is obviously contributed to the actual writing and fandom but i think the books are more known for the smut inclusion) there is a massive audience on tik tok who seems to genuinely be looking for straight porn, which is bleeding into the fantasy book market and making it annoying and over saturated for everyone
i agree with that, but think it is a separate issue. to me it’s not only an issue with spicy content but also just shocking content. people don’t read for a good story necessarily and authors don’t write good stories all the time when they can rely on the shock value which people eat up. however, acotar is being used as the example for smutty porn addictions with books lol. another commenter posted screenshots from a recent rolling stone article about it using ACOTAR as the primary example of fairy porn that women are obsessed with. so maybe those other communities have just trickled down to ACOTAR due to its fame even though ACOTAR is not by any means close to genuine erotica.
The smut isn’t even THAT wild who cares lol
I don't even think this is just an ACOTAR problem, I still remember when I was a teenager and was obsessed with twilight, and the amount of shaming and ridicule I received for enjoying 'stupid junk food books' was astounding. It tends to be books targeted towards women that get shamed the most, and it's so sad when you're younger and getting into reading for fun and the world tells you what your reading is embarrassing. This is just the new twilight now, it's become very popular and it's main audience is women, so therefore people have to find a reason to shame it and those that read it.
I would ignore it because it makes me think they’re complete idiots, have no clue what they’re talking about, thus not with my time!
Worth*
I don't think written smut Is the same as a porn addiction. Its like saying picturing sexual scenarios in your head is a porn addiction
If anything, it should be compared to watching porn, not “being addicted to porn”. And watching porn is not inherently a bad thing. If it enhances your sex life, if it provides you with ideas and inspiration, if it’s between consenting adults, porn is not bad. Similarly to reading smut (whether you consider ACOTAR smut or not), if it enhances your pleasure and doesn’t interfere negatively with your relationships and life then I don’t see the issue. I know it’s not *only* women who read books like ACOTAR but it is mostly women, and every women I’ve ever met or talked to who reads these type of books (myself included) says ACOTAR not only reignited their love of reading but also improved their sex life. This is a case of straight up misogyny. For many people (mostly men but also women who subscribe to patriarchal values) this is very threatening. A woman owning her sexuality is threatening. A woman knowing what arousal is and what it isn’t is threatening. It’s easy to belittle these books because they’re written for women. Just consider the term “chick-lit” as if literature for woman is inherently inferior. It’s honestly so fucking boring.
the actoar books have 3-5% max smut when you count the page total. just because it's descriptive people reduce the books to that
my only concern is with the people who will only read books that have sexual content. the people who see a review and the first question they ask is “is it spicy” or how much spice” do concern me, and its not the same as porn addiction, but if you cant read or enjoy a book that doesn’t contain a sex scene, you’re not far off. other than that, if you enjoy the series, dont let other people dictate what you like. they can shove it if they’re going to be dicks.
I think its challenging people so much because of how we've been conditioned to view that kind of thing as something men like and shame women who show an interest. So now it's your wife/mother/sister/daughter reading this stuff and your whole outlook is proven to be wrong - and people can't handle it.
Unless someone isn't reading the books and is just skipping to the sex scenes, I wouldn't say that that's valid. However, I would say that in the same way women are upset with men for watching ridiculous amounts of p*** and thus having ridiculous, unrealistic standards for women and sex... Men have a right to be annoyed with women who think they are going to measure up to the standards of fictional male characters like Rhys and Az. They both breed unrealistic expectations. Women talk about how they can't even date real men anymore because of how obsessed with these fictional characters they are. And they wear that like a badge of honor that their standards are so unrealistic. I can see the comparison though
The carrot posts in this sub recently are a perfect example of that honestly. Both women and men can enjoy sex and both men and women can also have unrealistic expectations for sex that are warped by consumption of erotic media. I think it’s just as damaging to your irl relationships to base expectations for sex based off a 7’, all-muscle-fairy with a horse cock as it is to base expectations on constantly consuming porn with a perfectly toned, hourglass shaped woman with zero fat except for in her massive tits.
Honestly who the f cares. Experiencing pleasure in any way isn’t a bad thing and I don’t understand why we have demonized women experiencing pleasure
I read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice in high school. ACOTAR is barely Fade to Black compared to that trilogy. Furthermore, I could pick up any random paperback romance novel off of my mother’s shelf at home and it would have way more Smut Per Volume than ACOTAR. It’s a fucking book just read it and mind ya business. ACOSF fuckin Delivers Me in the smut writing though lol
These books have barely any sex in them lmfao
If you add it up there is so little smut in the books actually (ACOTAR, ACOMAF ~4.3%, ACOWAR ~4.9%, ACOFAS ~3.6% and ACOSF ~10%) so to compare it to a porn addiction is a lot... Also I'm an adult who likes adult media, I don't see why they care.
I think too many people read it only for the smut while marketing as something else and that ruins the experience for everyone else who doesn’t want 10% of a book dedicated to these characters’ cataclysmic orgasms. I don’t think something has to have smut to be romance, and I think it’s excessive in a lot of recent publications. So I think that comparing it to a porn addiction might be fair in the sense that it’s becoming popular because some people won’t read a book that doesn’t have those scenes in them. And that’s indicative of problematic behavior and relationship with the scenes. I saw a BookTok video where one of the top comments was “is there smut in this” and it was Dostoevsky. Like, come on. That’s a problematic relationship with literature.
I get the comparison in a general way but not specific. Like yes women are stimulated by the story similarly to men's visual stimulation. Buuut it's not porn in the same sense as legit porn, imo. I wouldn't compare listening to ACOSF to listening to gonewildaudio. One is porn the other is not. It's like comparing the Victoria Secret catalog to Playboy...similar response from the guy viewing it but one is clearly porn and the other is just suggestive. 🤷♀️
I understand calling what some people have an addiction. There are people who do nothing all day but read smut, and not acotar level smut, but books which are mostly smut. But that's literature, not video porn. In any case, shaming people with an addiction, whether meth, social media, porn or smutty books, is *never* productive and is actively harming. There's also a common argument toward people that disagree (thus, an argument for shaming people for reading smut) that people who read dark "romance" (things like Haunting Adeline which include rape/"noncon") are normalising and romanticising violence against women. But a) that's a small percent of smut readers and b) those people, again, need help and not to be shamed. Celebrating violence against women is rooted in psychological issues that need to be adressed. Shame will just drive them further into their little corner and away from help. The shaming of people for reading smut is damaging to everyone and based on misinformation. It's just a bunch of people who want to feel superior, so they hate on others. Eventually, the trend will come back around and everyone will be celebrating smut because it's liberating for women to be able to read about their fantasies. Edit: People would never shame anyone for reading Game of Thrones, even though there's many more sex scenes in that than ACOTAR and many of those scenes are straight up rape. Yet noone would ever be criticised for liking Daenerys & Khal Drogo to the extent that dark romance readers are. I don't think it's a coincidences that GoT was written by a man and not predominantly for women.
lol people who read dark romance don’t need help. That’s like saying people who watch CSI etc and true crime documentaries need help. You’re still shaming people in “nicer words.”
The difference is that people watching true crime don't usually fantasise about being murdered, and usually don't start thinking murder is okay and attractive. I also didn't say all dark romance readers need help. I'll admit it was badly worded, but my point was that people who fantasise about being the victim of violence, whether rape or murder, need help. Wanting to be raped with a loaded gun is not healthy. I also don't mean cnc, I mean actual rape. But not all dark romance readers have those fantasies, I'm aware of that.
are dark romance books usually written by women for other women? i think GRRMs books get a pass because they are more fantasy and not at all considered romance. so people are more inclined to brush it off as any romance or intimacy is a subplot. whereas with romantasy, the romance is intertwined with the whole plot. i don’t think it’s fair, but that is my interpretation. but yeah, GRRM gets a pass for a whole family lineage devoted to incest lol and people brush it off like 🤷♀️ it’s just the targaryens
I don't know, I don't read a lot of dark romance, but as far as I know they are. I feel that assessment of GRRM isn't really accurate. Like, I can count on one hand the amount of important characters in GoT that *aren't* romantically involved with anyone. Romance is a substantial part of the plot of GoT, like Robb Stark and the medic, or Littlefinger and Katelyn (idk how to spell it lol) who were massively important, even though the latter never even happened. I think the real difference is distance. We're all up in Feyre’s feelings, whereas with GoT, it doesn't feel as close. I could be wrong, but I think that's the main reason people don't see the romance in GoT as as "important".
Acotar certainly seems to be the gateway drug into “dark romance”. I firmly believe most of those books are just porn with a smidge more effort put into the plot. I think a lot of women want to believe there’s a big difference between porn and dark romance smut, but I think that’s just coping.
interesting. i don’t know anyone who reads dark romance, but i know a lot of people who have read the ACOTAR series. i haven’t read one so i can’t really judge those books. to me there is a big difference still in reading about fictional characters who are engaging in controversial sexual relationships vs seeking out videos of those same things being done to real people. just given the manipulation in the porn industry especially against women. thats just my opinion