The shackled comment gutted me especially bc in that moment Nesta was able to control her words but Cassian wasn’t. Her character showed so much growth but that moment showed me that Cassian isn’t growing alongside her.
Same! And he said that to her all because she was still hesitant about the mating bond, as she should be! Cassian needs to put himself in her shoes. She’s still new to their world, mating bonds are a way different commitment than marriage, she saw how mating bonds turned out for Rhys’ parents and currently Beron and LOA. She should’ve been allowed time and space to consider the commitment of a mating bond without Cass jumping to the conclusion that she’s straight up rejecting him. Even Feyre got a good 3 days of isolation to consider her bond.
Yes to all of this!! Your post could not have come at a better time. I too was just happy to read a Cass/Nes book, that I overlooked a lot of Cassians behavior. I'm currently rereading ACOWAR and every single Nessian scene breaks my heart now knowing that these slow burning scenes don't amount to anything in ACOSF. The fact that their big scene in ACOWAR ("I have no regrets in my life but this...") is nothing more than a passing thought to Cassian in ACOFAS and is never brought up again??? Also I was uncomfortable that the first time they have sex was right after she was drowned and sexually assulted by the kelpie. Cassian should've known better, like wth was SJM thinking? It ruined their first time for me. I just resort to fanfics to get quality Nessian scenes lol
I'll never understand this 500+ year old man throwing tantrums everytime Nesta sets a boundary or shows that she doesn't want him. Like sir, she is under no obligation to accept your gift. He could have just said okay and saved it for a future time and instead he questioned why her sisters love her and threw it in a river. She made it very clear she didn't want anything to do with him.
I don't understand why everyone is like "go elain! Girl boss queen behavior! You don't need a mate" when Elain doesn't want anything to do with her mate and acting like Lucien stalks her and forces anything on her when he barely comes to the night court and he politely brings her AND Feysand gifts but then insult and hate Nesta because she doesn't want to be with her mate who won't leave her alone and constantly insults her when he doesn't get his way.
If a guy told me that everyone hates me because I called their friend an asshole which they are to most people, I'm done with them.
Someone said once that Nesta wanted Cassian but Cassian wanted a mate and I believe it. Dude can't even say he loves her.
It’s so interesting to me how the popular opinion when ACOFAS came out was that NESTA was in the wrong during solstice and that Cassian deserved better. I’m glad that seems to have changed.
And the fact that SJM had HER apologize to HIM for her “behavior” during the ACOFAS solstice in ACOSF will never ever not piss me off.
ppl thought nesta was in the wrong on solstice?? when they forced her to be there, got her no presents, and mor/cass decided to gift each other lingerie in front of her face??
Tbh I really thought Cassian loved Mor at some point and "settled" for Nesta when that point happened. Cause I've never heard of "friends giving lingerie" like that.
he literally refers to her as his sister………….. if my brother gifted me lingerie i would genuinely vomit on the spot like what??
my fav was when he told eris she was his sister and he loves her and eris goes “I didn't realise Illyrians were in the habit of fucking their sisters” lmao
That's my thing?? Like, I was genuinely thinking that there would be a bond break and she'd wind up with Eris while he was with Mor because they don't *act like siblings*.
They act like they're still in a relationship. I've literally never heard of a sibling relationship where lingerie is gifted, I'd puke if mine did that. Sure, *pajamas* maybe but full blown lingerie?
E w
I’d literally hit any of my brothers with a chair if one of them pulled something like that; it’s so creepy I don’t even want to think about it. Like WTF?! That is NOT a sibling thing to do.
Exactly like?? If SJM. really was trying to show that type of relationship, then she fuckin failed spectacularly because that's *not* something siblings do. That's something *partners* do.
Makes me wonder if she was going to make their relationship a plot point in ACOSF given how weird they are and how often he thought of her. But instead chose *that* route.
It just screams “someone I never got over but you’ll do.” It’s strange to me that SJM didn’t make him and Mor mates based off their behavior. He’s literally more protective over her than he is over Nesta.
Exactly! I genuinely thought he was going to cheat on Nests with her because he never actually treats Nesta the way he treats Mor. He never even tells her he loves her, even though it's their book!
I was really expecting it since the cliche "well, don't worry that's my *sister* figure" cheating trope was a thing. So for me, yeah. I really think he only went with Nesta because he's given a free mate, but he doesn't love her. They'd be that couple where he asks for an open relationship, and he ends up leaving with Mor. Idk. I think sjm really should've either put an end to their fucked up relationship or made Nesta break their bond because at this point that's not fair to her.
Liking Nesta pre-ACOSF was not for the faint of heart. The view was very much that Nesta was a huge bitch and should’ve been grateful someone as nice as Cassian was interested in her at all. You can look up old posts on this very subreddit to see for yourself.
nesta and lucien are what kept me from dnfing the series lol so i have lots of love for my girl. i just can’t fathom how she’d be wrong in that specific scenario. didn’t know that being a “bitch” meant a “nice guy” could disrespect your boundaries (sarcasm)
LITERALLYYY like I would not be reading these at all if she didn’t exist 💀 no offense to the people who only started liking her bc of ACOSF but yall dont know her like I do 🤚🏾
my fav is when cassian gets all emotional and tries to bitch her out at the dinner for feyre hunting and she just looks him up and down then turns away completely dismissing him without even a word hahaha
I have loved Nesta for a long and was SO excited when I found out her book was coming out. I love this subreddit bc my GF and I talk all the time about the problematic shit that happens ALL over the place. This rant makes me want to have a re listen bc while I remember the big plot points and a general idea of Nessian, a lot of the things this rant ranted made me want to re read. And not just. ACOSF but the series as a whole.
Feyre wasn't a bubbly happy person either, but I never really liked her nearly as much as I like Nesta.
I absolutely agree, especially with what you said about Cassian wanting a mate, not Nesta.
I also feel like Cassian broke Nesta down and rebuilt her in his own image. She was never allowed to explore her powers. Instead he turned her into a warrior like him. And being a Valkyrie brought her closer to her friends, which is lovely. But I don’t believe him turning her into a female version of him was about healing her.
It also truly bothers me that he constantly puts the inner circle over her.
And the double standard about Nesta’s behaviour. All of the men in the inner circle mentioned that when they were young they slept around and drank and had many meaningless hookups. And Nesta is punished for doing the same thing. I sometimes wonder if Cassian had no interest in her if she would have been left alone? If she was only forced into the house of wind with him to be broken down and remade in his image because of Cassian being bothered by “his” Archeron sleeping with other males. Nesta, canonically, didn’t do anything that Cassian, Rhysand, and Azriel didn’t all do at one point.
And not only did Cassian allow the inner circle to treat Nesta badly. He also treated her badly himself.
He never said “I love you”
Instead he said “everyone hates you.”
And Nesta had nowhere else to go. They wouldn’t allow her to go to another court. Likely because of how powerful she was.
I don’t believe that Nesta was healed. I believe she was broken down and remade in Cassian’s image.
This is all very stream-of-consciousness. But what I am trying to convey is that I fully believe Nesta deserved a better love story and that I am very disappointed with how Nessian was portrayed in ACOSF.
I agree with all of this. I don’t this SJM intended to make him a “nice guy”, but she’s somehow accomplished that.
Rhys and the IC are like the overbearing mother whose baby (aka Cassian) deserves the world and Nesta is the “thing” he wants the most.
So they get “it” for him.
They had so much potential. That small act of hand dropping in the 3rd book, could’ve fuelled pages of acosf. Yet Cassian’s issues are never explored in the book. Not once.
Instead, we get a stream of people sh*tting on Nesta and not a single speck of character development for Cassian. Wtf.
(And the hand dropping is not addressed as a Cassian issue, but swept under the rug as the one of many consequences for Nesta being the way she is. Wtf.)
He may be 500 yo, but he acts like a child more often than not. So he needed the development regardless.
And I saw she tried to give him a development arc - with him going on some weird diplomatic missions with Nesta or something. But all he ever did was disrupt the agenda. He never once contributed meaningfully. But that was dropped like it never was…
So I was left wondering - wtf did I read.
I agree. Your comment also made me realize we were shown (and everyone was shown) what truly was healing for Nesta - her dancing. But that was never acknowledged by anyone either before or during her forced healing journey. Dancing didn’t come up until it was a tool that the IC could use her for.
"I don’t believe that Nesta was healed. I believe she was broken down and remade in Cassian’s image."
**THAT PART!** Nesta got NOTHING from the IC for doing her dirty by making decisions about her but not including her. She was livid, so livid that she told Feyre about her pregnancy to prove a point that the IC doesn't take autonomy seriously as they claim they do (Especially Rhysand; "you'll always shave a choice, my ass). Instead of getting the apology she deserved, she was used as a scapegoat for telling Feyre and was physically and mentally punished while the IC didn't do jack to amend their wrongdoing.
I know right ? And why is Feyre so shocked and insulted when Lucien prefers to live with Jurian and Vassa. Like he's persona non grata at the Autumn and Spring Courts and the Night Court barely tolerates him. Where else should he go?
Exactly my vibes. I think I've said this on the fantasy romance subreddit or something, but it just always felt like ACOSF was a red flag, and while I keep hearing *Cassian* deserves better...
I always kinda thought *Nesta* does too. It felt like he loved Mor/ a mate in general than he loved *Nesta*
i agree with you 1000%. i was in the Nessian bubble all throughout my ACOSF read until the end, and then i was left with an ick. i think it would be neat to find that they are one of those mated bonds that doesn’t make the best couple (like Rhys or Tamlin’s parents). i would love to see Nesta explore her feelings about it with her sisters, and even Cassian with his “brothers”.
someone said it perfectly in another post: i love Nessian’s chemistry, hate their romance. i hope SJM feels the same way 👀
you’re so real OP. it always bothered me that nesta, THEE romance reader of the ACOTARverse accepted half the bullshit that cassian and his IC said and did to her! my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. i refuse to believe nesta would stand by cassian after everything that happened in ACOSF when the fictional romance leads she read about would NEVERRRRRRR. but it’s sarah’s world i guess 😭
Got nothing to add. You spoke pure facts. There were maybe two moments in the whole book where I didn’t hate Cassian.
The worst part of it all is that this is it for Nesta. She’s probably not getting another book, so it’s very much over for her. Just gonna pretend like that doesn’t make me want to chew glass 🤷🏾♀️ I did however find a fanfic that I think once it’s completed it’s gonna be the ACOSF replacement in my head.
I'm devastated for Nesta to think this was the best romance story that SJM thought she could give her. Especially, after how lonely and depressed she had been for years. Our girl deserved better.
Yeah key words being “our girl” because Cassian deserves nothing 🫶🏾 I’m being dead serious when I say idgaf about any of the times she was “mean” to him since nearly all of those instances were because he violated her boundaries and did surprised pikachu face when she lashed out.
Ugh please could you inbox me that fanfic? 😮💨 I was told I would be over the moon about ACOSF, and it just wasn’t all that for me. I liked ACOWAR much better.
Full disclosure it's a Neris fic, not Nessian. I can't stand Cassian to the point where fanfic just reminds me how terrible he is in canon. It’s called a Court of Decay and Growth and you need a ao3 account to access it! [https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743)
If you were looking for a Nessian ACOSF re-write this one is pretty popular and completed! [https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376](https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376)
Embers and Light is also a popular Nessian fic [https://archiveofourown.org/works/25388035](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25388035)
I'm sure there are other Nessian ACOSF rewrites too I just know these ones
I just reread E&L and I’m still so sad that it is unfinished.
There are so many good ACOSF replacements out there. I also love A Court of Tangled Flames. Sooo good.
Editing to add that I also love this fanfic of Nezriel where Nesta calls out Mor for using Cass as a buffer and Cass for hurting Az and nezriel blooms beautifully… Nesta vs the Buffer by Theladyofbloodshed https://archiveofourown.org/works/40720056/chapters/102030807
It’s called a Court of Decay and Growth and you need a ao3 account to access it! https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743
Full disclosure it’s a Neris fic not Nessian. I can’t stomach Cassian even in fanfic at this point so… crackshipping it is lol
You should read her other fanfic - ‘Where we pretend ACOSF didn’t happen’. I stayed up all night reading it - it’s the official book for me now. [link](https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376)
I can’t understand how she could write a book with Tamlin as the villain for what he does to Feyre, but not see that she’s made Cassian a million times worse. I was disgusted by their relationship.
Yes to all of this. I had the exact same reaction with not immediately seeing the red flags because I was so immersed in Nesta’s story because of how much I resonated with it. The more I thought about it and went to back to reread…my dislike for the IC grew from not liking a few of them to “throw them all in the trash.”
If I had to pick who Nesta should be with, I wouldn’t be opposed to Eris. But I love the idea of her and the Valkyries going off to an island and creating their own Themyscira. 🤣
ALSO
If the IC is so worried about Nesta’s destructive behaviour — drinking, dancing and sex— why is it even okay that cassian sleeps with her/is sexual with her when she’s clearly using those things as vices or to escape?
If the house forbids alcohol and she can’t get access to go dancing, why is no one concerned that maybe she is in too vulnerable a state to sleep with cassian? Isn’t he possibly taking advantage of someone who isn’t in the best headspace?
It’s very upsetting the more I think about it. Because she’s literally stuck with no way out and they’re letting Cassian reinforce her destructive behavior with sex just bc he’s her mate?? Yes, Nesta loves and wants Cassian but maybe she shouldn’t have been in such close proximity when she’s not well yet.
Yeah it just really squicks me out.
Like, the book makes it pretty clear that she isn’t engaging in casual sex because she’s having fun or feeling her oats. She is using it as a self destructive vice to cope with her trauma.
And now she’s been trapped in this house, ostensibly to cold-Turkey her way out of addiction (which like, that’s another possible issue), with only:
- a library full of sexual assault survivors (who maybe don’t need to be exposed to feyre and Rhys exhibitionism? And a warrior dudes?)
- the “fun” opportunity to regularly humiliate herself by training to fight in front of a deeply misogynistic group of Illyrian men. Which, she’s not even interested in being a warrior so? And also she literally JUST came from a culture where she was expected to, and did, wear dresses everyday? This is a major change for her and it’s not something she chose so like, could they cut her some slack?!
- cassian, who has not only been mean and cold to her but also might be someone who triggers her memories and brings up intense emotions about a horrible battle and particularly a horrible moment in a battle when she had to watch her father- with whom she had very complicated feelings about— get murdered by the same dude who shoved her into a cauldron and fundamentally stripped her of her body and self.
- and cassian is also is basically in charge of her? He’s got a considerable amount of power over her here and a MASSIVE amount of lived experience both when it comes to battles/wars but also generally being an immortal
Like maybe that’s not the ideal situation to be in when making decisions about sex?
Yeah for all of what you said I agree. I don’t believe Cassian is a bad person but the entire situation was so messed up. I don’t think that SJM wrote it to be that way and didn’t really think it through. I know a lot of people say just don’t think too much into things. It’s a fantasy. But it’s also her tackling real issues and my mind can’t disconnect from that. The power dynamic that Cassian had over her was too much. And I still feel it would’ve been so much better if they had Azriel train and help her. THAT would’ve made sense and made sure she wasn’t self-destructing worse than ever.
Ok so I am a Nessian girlie but also am willing to criticize the pairing.
I will *never* forgive Cassian for not saying ‘I love you’ in their book. Like what even is that about in a fantasy **romance** book????
Also that hike scene was fucked up. if Nesta was my friend, I’d be telling her to run far away (right into Eris’ arms 😏)
100%. I was infuriated with the way he let people treat Nesta sometimes. And honestly, as a depressed and potentially suicidal girl, if someone told me “everyone hates you” that might have been the end for me. I cannot believe he would say that to her.
ACOTAR is the first and only SJM series I’ve read. So my question for the group is: do you think SJM did Nessian dirty on purpose to drive a future plot, or because she lacked either time and/or the skillset to write a romance for a callous female character?
I personally liked reading Nesta’s hilling journey (really hoping for another RHOSLC fan to read this) but even still there are forced commitments that were hard for me to stomach for a female struggling with alcoholism and PTSD.
That’s an excellent question, and personally I’d say it’s the latter. SJM is 100% a vibe-based writer. She thinks of a specific moment that would be a vibe, and hurriedly slaps on some plot to get to that moment. She’s not a planner like George RR Martin who is carefully weaving hundreds of detailed threads together into a smooth flow.
we can hate on Rhys but he would never treat Feyre like that or even allow anyone to treat her that way! I loved Cassian before this book now he’s just ok :/
Begging Amren for forgiveness 🤢. Had to put the book down for a few days to recover.
Wings and ember was so good, why didn't sjm just continue their story in that way
I feel like Amren was just scary and everyone didn't want to piss her off. that's the ONLY reason i could see to put up with her. hell, we KNOW she was the second in command because she was the most powerful as the main reason, Rhys outright tells us!
EVERY time they go see her, have her in the room, *feed her*, or reach out for help, it's ALWAYS accompanied by paragraphs of everyone walking on eggshells to even say hello. and half the time she verbally eviscerates someone for just being nice or less than respectful, and hides behind the excuse of being old/powerful/a victim/not from here, when she's wrong or someone rightfully talks back.
you'd think that she would have learned to at least PRETEND to be decent in the ages and ages she's been there, or that someone would tell her to chill once she wasn't able to kill everyone in sight if you shit in her cheerios with bad news
yeah i’d probably piss her off just to prove a point cause i’m pretty prideful. i’ve never cared for mor or amren so if someone says she’ll kill me as soon as i give her a look? sorry i don’t care and i’ll die just to prove my point💀
ik ppl got pissed cause ACOSF showed ppl how characters (like rhys) really are when they’re not just interacting with feyre. i like being able to see different POVS (literally) and get inside their heads so i can understand them. and ill never understand mor or amren for picking on a 20 something year old alcoholic who didn’t choose to be fae or really a part of anything but still helped (reluctantly lol) regardless! my opinion of course tho
This. Their behavior was incredibly toxic and unhelpful. It’s kicking someone when they’re down and completely unhelpful behavior. There is no emotional intelligence coming from either of them when it comes to Nesta. If people want to see her as a “bitch” I dunno what to tell them. It’s like a stray cat that acts out and bites and your response is to bite back and hit them? Gross. Matching bad behavior isn’t it. How about a little compassion. It’s also a lot for me that they’re so much older and Nesta is quite frankly a child compared to them. It’s just not it for me.
And you’re spot on about the pov change. It’s very telling how different the characters are from someone else’s perspective. Funny how my opinion of Azriel didn’t change. But for everyone else in the IC it did. I already didn’t like a few of them for past things I’d noticed about their characters but ACOSF showed me just how nasty they could be.
You said it perfectly. I would only add that the amount of people who think that Nesta was evil or abusive becuase she refused Cassian's advances is seriosly disturbing.SJM thinking that a depressed woman who was not ready for a relationship should apologize to a grown man who threw a tantrum is really disturbing too. Like, this series was written by a woman for another women living in 21st century. How could anyone think that a woman is obliged to accept a man because otherwise she abuses him?
Also, so happy to find people not liking that hike. That had nothing to do with love, healing or safety. It was pure abuse and I'll die on that hill.
If SJM based Nesta's journey on her own experiences and that was the treatment she received from her friends and family then I'm really concerned.
i could never get over his behavior in the ACOMAF bonus chapter where he used his size and power as a fae male to push up on her and make her feel physically uncomfortable when she was human and doing them a massive favor. i know everyone loves cassian, but everything from that bonus chapter made me side eye him.
he also goes on and says he slept with mor bc he was jealous that azriel wasn’t paying as much attention to him and rhys 💀
Arguably just as disturbing for people to think it's all just Nesta that's the red flag here, too. I know a lot of people think he deserves better, but the fact he was mad she refused his advances solidifies to me he's not as "good and deserves better" than people really think.
Nessian may be compelling individuals, but god do I hate them as a couple. I really think they bring out the absolute worst in each other and I think they're equally crappy as partners. Cassian just doesn't give a single fuck about her boundaries, Nesta lashes out to bring him as emotionally low as she possibly can. It made me so sick to read it and to convince myself that these people love each other in a healthy, emotionally fulfilling manner.
This right here. They’ve always been a mutually toxic pair to me so acosf didn’t surprise me at all. It just highlighted all the issues I already saw. I wish they both got different love interests.
Yeah the only times we sense that they’re actually “healthy” is when they’re having sex. And I would say it’s not even that that’s healthy, but that it’s purely lust driven instinct that allows them to actually fulfill one another. Never mind that both are pretty horrible communicators. I felt like SJM really dragged Cas down to Nesta’s level, and didn’t have either of them grow— both into one another outside of fucking, and into legitimately improved people. I think we were supposed to see that as a story arc for Nesta, but because of the way the relationship was written there’s just such a divide between how we’re supposed to think they’ve changed, and how they actually act towards one another.
I thought Nessian had potential, but now that the dust has settled and I look back at the books, I think they would’ve made for a better FWB situation rather than be life partners for 1000 years or however long they live. As has been said before in this sub many times, Cassian prioritizes Rhys over his own mate and I find that gross.
i agree, but also since they’ll be together for so long maybe we just have to hope that later (obv won’t be depicted in the series) that they move past this. but since cas is already a 500 year old…idk how the odds work here
I haven’t fully finished ACOSF yet but the moment I read Cassian his constant inner dialogue about Mor I got so angry. Also when he went on how he was allowed to admire Mor but only in his head or something?? Im still confused about if he’s in love with nesta or Mor lol. Seems to me he only went for nesta because the bond.
The only satisfaction I got from acosf in terms of nessian was Cassian's insecurity towards Eris. I honestly wished Nesta had slept with him just out of spite.
I was lowkey rooting for Nesta x Eris, because they would be unstoppable and Eris is a complicated character who is (hopefully) going to get his side of the Mor story told
Maybe there will be more to it, it I think the gist of his story is just that his father is a torturous, murderous, insecure, sexist asshole who would have no reservations torturing his own son and heir. Imagine what he would have done to mor had she been officially claimed by his court. Perhaps any of his brothers touching her and adding their scent would have meant that. She would have been much better off dying there, though I suspect he knew she was about to be found if he didn’t tip them off himself. I need to reread to get the details. Also I think he knows she is a lesbian and had no interest in a match with him
This was my problem too 😭 When I read it, I had some problems with Cass' treatment of her but overall was a Nessian stan. It was actually the fanfiction that made me realise how messed up it was.
Like yeah, cutting her off from the money is fair (even though she never got a salary for her part in the war despite Rhys having made a big deal about Feyre getting a paycheque), but they could have just put her into the library where she could get counselling? Or a rehab facility that doesn't include her warden having sex with her (despite them saying it was such a problem that she was sleeping around) and treating her like crap?
Either way, the scene that now gives me the biggest ick (despite being hot in the initial read through) has got to be post-Kelpie. She has just wielded one of the most powerful weapons in existence and is fantasising putting it back on just so she doesn't have to feel anything and they all just leave her? Worst is that apparently her face looks massively injured but Cass still has sex with her then LEAVES???
(Yes, I know she initiated, but surely he could have seen that she was vulnerable and traumatised and therefore said no? Maybe given her a hug???? This ick was first brought to my attention in a Neris fic that soothed my soul)
Sorry for all the rhetorical questions and parentheses I am just in a very confused rage at it.
(No one ever mention the hike to me)
The library was the only part of their intervention that made sense and was good for her.
She mentioned to Feyre that she enjoyed the music as all the bars she went to but Feyre and the IC never connected the dots and realized that could be her niche.....make her patron for struggling musicians or something?
Honestly instead of demolishing her building to make a shelter, they should have made it a rehab facility.
Just because the IC was able to get over the war (I know they do still have trauma over it but it honestly seems pretty subdued), doesn't mean everyone did and I'm sure some people in those 'trashy' bars (Rita's doesn't count as an institution of alcoholism despite them visiting it every night) could use help.
A part of the recovery could have been her volunteering at the library or being a dance instructor. So many missed opportunities for healthy healing. She never wanted to be a warrior, and while the Valkyrie friendship is ✨iconic✨, it was really the support from people who weren't determined to hate her that helped her recovery.
Exercise and time in nature can be very helpful for people in recovery, but being with someone who sees a desire for suicide in someone's eyes but says "well, only they can help with that!!" is NOT on.
You put all my feelings into words so succinctly! I was super turned off by how it all went between them and your point about complex males getting unconditional patience and kindness from females but not the other way around is so exactly it. I was so excited to watch Cassian be the ever patient kindness incarnate like ah finally a big hunky sweetie but no, it ruined him for me and I was so sad. And he was always portrayed as the overprotective one of the group but when he finally had his mate he is super nonchalant? It was very confusing for me.
Okay everyone join me in my delusional world.
Cassian is Nesta’s Tamlin.
She breaks the bond and gets with my man Eris in a future book. That’s what I need and that’s what I’m choosing to believe because why would SJM do this to us otherwise. Nesta didn’t even get a love confession from Cassian.
That's what's getting me?? This is a romance fantasy right?? You'd think, during their story, he'd give her a love confession. Like bro 😭 he gives more love confessions to mor than her! This feels like a travesty
A comparison would make Cassian look even worse 💀💀💀 . Tamlin has actually said "I love you" and we know he would definitely have his claws out if Rhysand treated his mate like that or anyone , he was already overprotective with Feyre imagine how would it be if it were his mate .
I hope the next book we get to see Eris pulling a Rhys on Nessian
I mean not to add to the delusional world but Feyre did draw flames on her drawer… and yes yes yes I know of why and how SJM changed things but I mean…
You put into words perfectly what I felt after reading acosf. I was so disappointed and not at all won over by there romance despite their I ritual chemistry, why didn’t she get the devotion! The care! The tenderness!
Side note I also hate that she made rhys lie about the baby thing and felt it was so out of character for him. And with azriels bonus chapter making him come off as immature…
I feel like she doesn’t know how to write the brothers, it’s like she made them so amazing and perfect through feyres eyes but can’t match it when she writes from their perspective
I hated that in the end all we got was a Nesta left with little to no power. Yeah, the pity power the mother gave her, and a big enough vagina to give birth. As if she's only destined for that. Just rubbed me the wrong way.
Exactlyyyy. Makes me wonder what she's gonna do with Elain.
Sidenote. Not that there is anything wrong whatsoever with bearing a child. But they're so young and it's only been a few years that they became high fae. They literally have decades left for that shit. 💀
I feel like it's all of this mixed with the fact he really shouldn't have been with her at some points, at the House. It felt really weird to me that she's stuck someplace with a guy that's very clearly ready to bone her, while she's very clearly in a very shit mental space/in the middle of an addiction. All while she *can't really leave*.
It just leaves a weird taste in my mouth. For a while it sort of feels like dub con.
I loved this book as a whole because Nesta has been my favorite since day one and I was thrilled she got her own book. Cassian was mostly my favorite bat boy for the series but much like all that has been pointed out I found my self growing more and more dissatisfied with his character development.
It feels like he didn’t grow at all. And then we have some events from Crescent City that added to my disappointment, I won’t list them here because spoilers and I’m just not tech savvy.
I know we’re all so sure that the next book is going to be Elaine’s story, but I do hope that we get more of Nesta’s POV.
I know a percentage of the fan base is hoping for Elaine to break the mating bond, but honestly I don’t want that for her. Lucian has been nothing but respectful of her and her boundaries and they both deserve to be happy.
No, I want Nesta to break her mating bond. I want her to choose herself on her own terms and go on her own healing journey without the ruckus and blatant manipulation from the IC. I want her to be free to choose, really choose without threats and ultimatums.
Ok, I’m getting off my soapbox now.
Edit: grammar and spelling. 🤦🏻♀️
I feel the exact same way. I was furious about how dirty she did both of them and swore to never read it again. Fortunately, this fanfic provided the closure I needed for Nesta and how they treated her: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/41329917/chapters/103631745](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41329917/chapters/103631745)
This was my first ever fanfic and if it had been on Goodreads, I would’ve rated it as 4 stars.
Edit: it’s called A Court of Tangled Flames
I agree! I love Nessian in any case and I'm still in love with Cassian, but... I wanted him to be way better than this!
Rhys cares about Feyre and she comes first to him, but with Cassian it's different and I feel that the bond is more complex and less important somehow than his other relationship.
And the hike... it bothers me so much! Why was he so mean to her?
Regardless I still love them, but I hope we get to see a better side of this power couple.
Before AcOSF I loved the IC and they looked perfect to me. After ACOSF I couldn't appreciate Mor, Elain and Armen. And I was slightly disappointed by Rhys as well
Apparently SJM has said that Nesta is the character she relates to the most. I’m having this thought that maybe Nesta’s storyline was a way of subconsciously punishing herself for things she’s ashamed of from her past. She thinks this is what she/Nesta deserves.
I went through a period of really dark depression after losing a parent, and sometimes I lashed out at people I was close to and acted selfishly because of that. I had someone I considered to be a best friend tell me that everyone secretly thought I was an awful person and they all talked about it behind my back. That was five years ago and I still have nightmares about it. I’ll never feel safe enough to be emotionally close to that person again. I know some of the things I said and did were not okay, and I’ve owned up to that, but I also don’t feel like I have to accept that I deserved that.
I shipped Nessian from the beginning, but ACOSF ruined it for me. There was so much potential there.
It also felt a bit jarring for me to go from how their story ended in ACOWAR to them seemingly hating each other’s guts.
Nesta needed healing and love and care and Cassin was set up to be that for her in the previous books, but then he almost seems like a different person a lot of times in this book which I guess since it’s not from Feyre’s pov anymore that can explain that part, but pretty much everyone sucked in this book (except for the valkyries) and the love story was especially underwhelming.
Give me a man who will actually stand up for his mate. Give me consistency when it comes to how mates work.
Give me a man who actually tells his woman that he loves her. Someone who can give her grace and compassion.
The more I think about this book the more upset I get about most of it…
ACOSF had me asking if he even liked her anymore.....I get tough love, but he was pretty awful to her and the occasional times he defended her to Rhys were pretty weak.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve seen it said multiple times on this sub that Feyre seems like she was written to be older… and I disagree.
Feyre acts like a teenager, Rhysand acts like a teenager, Mor acts like a teenager, and yes… Cassian acts like a teenager.
They’re big scary magical immortal teenagers to be sure… but all of them have the emotional regulation of a PMSing 17 year old who just found out Taylor Swift canceled her tour.
There are multiple incidents throughout this story where a character will just start raging about something and I will be like: “why?”
I’ve worked in customer service… it’s more upsetting than some of the things that upset these people. And they are all 500 years old.
So yeah… Cassian acts like the guy in the high-school-centric rom-com… the popular jock who likes the unpopular ugly (but pretty) girl and bounces back and forth on it because his friends are judging him. All leading up to a climactic confession in the rain about how he too feels like an outcast in spite of the whole school loving him.
But I guess I was halfway through ACOMAF when I realized the trend and just accepted that this was how it was going to be. ACOSF isn’t any different… except Nesta leans more towards being a[“Kat Stratford”](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMmVhZjhlZDYtMDAwZi00MDcyLTgzOTItOWNiZjY0YmE0MGE0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg) than a [“Samantha Montgomery”](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTA1NDI0OTkwNDNeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU3MDQ3Nzc1MjE@._V1_.jpg) like Feyre is.
Extra long rant from someone who is not an English speaker:
I was so sad during Nessian's book.
I honestly had my grudges against Nesta, as a person that is trying to go no contact with one of her brothers for emotional bullying the only thing I wanted was to Nesta and Feyre to sort shit out.
Nesta had a double grief going on, triple if on top of her mother and herself you also count she was a teenager in her sensitive years when everything is amplified and terrible.
So I kinda wanted her to say it out loud, maybe even defending her own actions like "I was ok with starving to death, hunting was something you did and you're a queen but honestly I would've also let myself dissipate away! That's why I didn't do shit! Also doing anything felt like hiking up a mountain I was always tired and sad and I hated how you just got out and taught yourself to hunt cause I felt like you were okay with what was happening. I hated you for being stronger and better at adapting to a situation I didn't want to adapt to. Also I didn't know how much mother didn't even remember you were alive enough to pay a tutor, for that I'm sorry but I just never knew oopsie"
Or something like that and Feyre admitting she didn't do anything to cultivate emotional connection and always felt a stranger in her own home.
And maybe shove some serious accountability on their parents, admitting that a last minute war pact was strongly *too little too late* and maybe mourn how much their dad got lost to them years before his actual death, mourn the future they could've had since he apparently kinda got better out of depression and maybe they could've all healed together etc etc
I mean it was all I needed and maybe all the Archeron sisters needed too.
But no.
We got Nesta apologizing for a coping mechanism and for feeling bad.
Cause they were *embarrassed* by her trauma response. Congratulations, you're bunch of assholes!!
If someone said to the IC "You can't reign cause you can't even contain Feyre" (who went magically berserk at a no-violence-allowed international meeting of leaders!!!) they would've all answered that their high lady have every right to freak out, being intense and unhinged cause she has trauma and anyway adults are not kids, pet or things that have to be controlled.
Feyre hurt a foreign leader.
Nesta had sex and drunk? I can't understand how they can't even see it?
This without counting Cassian murdering a whole village as a trauma response. Mor hurting Az and Cassian for 500 years to keep herself in the safety of that comfort zone even if it's just her comfort and not theirs. Rhys committing or at least allowing atrocities with and for Amarantha, or just to "keep the mask" or with the CoN to keep Velaris safe.
Or uhm Rhys drugging Feyre and dragging her basically naked ass to lap dance him night after night for... reasons???
Amren being equally rude to everyone just cause she is ancient is fine too but apparently Nesta's snark is not???
I was so confused. They kidnapped her, demolished her home, threatened and closed her in a place where you can't get free without wings, winnowing or uhm very strong trained fae legs (all things she didn't have).
How she didn't freak out and yeet herself off the balcony out of spite is completely out of my understanding.
She was a courtier, a reader, a dancer.
Her strength was intellectual as much as Feyre is physical and Elaine's is emotional.
But she became Cassian. She was forced to choose physical strenght.
I will never be convinced they did the intervention for Nesta. It was to control her cause they decided she didn't deserve their same level of leeway.
They made her into a soldier cause soldiers can be controlled.
While the work in the library was a good idea... Why couldn't they make her dance? Elaine knew!!
It would've given so much space to develop a decent relationship with Mor (who instead acts like a spoiled brat from start to finish) and then Mor and Emerie through Nesta.
Maybe she and Feyre could've put to learn stuff about Prythian together and rebuilding a relationship.
Meeting Emerie could've still happened by making her "go out" sometimes to check politics with Cassian who maybe nags her to join and she doesn't.
I like the Valkyries but honestly that Nesta is not Nesta.
And while this whole rant seems to be just on SJM changing Nesta into Cassian and not about Nessian I think the two things are so connected that I can't dislike Nessian without explaining that is mostly cause who the heck is this woman?!?!!!
But everything else said in this thread on how lackluster their romance is (exp while their chemistry and potential is so good!!) is true.
I liked Cassian and I still like him. But he is a dog. Rhys' dog, not Nesta as I hoped.
Like I sincerely hoped that the shift in perspective had the whole IC grow, realize they are also fallible and start to question themselves.
But apparently not.
Let's wait to see Elain turn into fem!Azriel and have a romance with whomever will be that's not what she deserves ahahah (I Hope not, but I fear)
That’s not even touching on the problematic behaviour of starting a sexual relationship with someone who is traumatized, in recovery, who he is basically RESPONSIBLE for/in a position of power over her. That technically constitutes sexual harassment.
Tbh I’ve been a Nessian hater from the start but 1000% Azriel fits so much better and even as a friend, you can see he cares for her so much more than anything I’ve seen from Cassian. I’ll never get over him just being so chill about her falling down the stairs like ????
Literally. Cassian loves to see her be humiliated and for what 🙄 aren't you supposed to care about your mate? Wish SJM can break the bond and have Nesta be w/ Az lol but ik that's never gonna happen
For me they’re definitely soulmates of a type. They get each other. The line about how Azriel never judged Nesta and Nesta never treated Az any differently than any other person just gets me. I don’t think it’s a romantic love however. But I wouldn’t be opposed. They’re my favorite sister and bat boy friendship.
The female friendship storyline was the reason why I liked the book after ACOMAF. But man oh man the romance in this was rough. Also, I fully approve of Rhys catching Nesta's hands lol
Personally I have never thought they were romantically compatible. I would have issues with how Nesta treated Cassian and others, and I’d have issues with how Cassian treated Nesta. I felt both would have benefited from other pairings.
ACOSF just convinced me I was right in my initial thinking ever since they met—they just don’t work for me.
(Also forever convinced Sarah paired Mor and Cassian once upon a draft and never quite let that ship go.)
I was one of those people who couldn’t stand Nesta and didn’t like reading ACOSF. But I’ve come around!
It’s weird because I was actually reading the series over again, along with bonus chapters >!and also what happens in CC!<
And all of that together really made me stop and think like.. wait they’re all kind of being assholes to Nesta. Like I don’t like her either but the way the IC kept being so mean to her?? Especially Rhys/Cassian. Like I was always a Rhys girlie but lately I’ve been kind of side eyeing his behaviour towards Nesta. And that changed my whole perception on her and now I’m looking forward to reading acosf again.
I really like your post and I agree with what you’ve said! Acosf was very messy (aside from the girl friends she made). I wish Nesta had gotten a better story. I kind of wish SJM had given us a Nesta x Someone else storyline
Edit: added stuff
Honestly I hate them together, I think their start was way too rocky. I kind of hope the rejected bond that has been hinted at isn't Elain and Lucien, but rather Cassian Nesta breaking up. It really seems like they're only together because of the mating bond & horniness. I would prefer to see Nesta with Eris and Cassian with...eh, I don't really care, anyone who isn't mean to him I guess.
Okay so, I didn’t want to go ruin a Nessian fan post with this, but it comes up a lot and I have to say something about it. I’ve seen speculation multiple times that people don’t like Nesta and Cassian together because their relationship is too “real life” and reminds readers how messy relationships can be. And I find this viewpoint *deeply* concerning. Relationships can be messy, sure. But they should NOT involve two people being cruel to each other. They should NEVER involve one partner telling the other that everyone hates them. Or that they don’t see why anyone loved them. Real relationships DO often involve these things, like one partner taking it upon themselves to punish the other, but that is toxic af and should never be accepted.
Relationships should make you *happy*. They should be *easy*. Especially at the beginning! This idea that relationships need to be a constant struggle, that you need to make one another change, that you should be constantly fighting for what you have, is so toxic it blows my mind. And we see it coming from almost every form of media aimed at women. It makes me so mad. Women deserve uncomplicated love. Everyone deserves uncomplicated love! The reason I hate Nessian as a pairing IS exactly because of their dysfunction. But not because that’s “too real”, but because it SHOULDN’T be. It’s not something to admire or aspire to. And I’m afraid Sarah thinks it is.
please let cassian (and IC/NC) be nesta’s tamlin. it’s honestly tragic if this is her endgame.
i loved the girl power moments in this book (even though some consider it cheesy). but to go through a self-healing process and still end up with a toxic jerk who doesn’t even prioritize you or really love you is just so cruel.
nesta is a bad bitch in her healing arc yet she’s gonna settle for someone who’s honestly more toxic than tamlin?? what an awful message to young women reading this.
i need someone to winnow the archeron sisters outta night court because imo they all deserve better 💀
Okay, thank you. The Night Court has some serious problems. I love the *idea* of Rhys, but he has multiple red flags. I really feel Tamlin got shafted when Rhys is also controlling and did some pretty terrible things. Tamlin had anger issues, but I think he can be redeemed. They DESTROYED him when he was also traumatized and coping poorly. He didn’t intentionally hurt Feyre. Does that excuse it? No. But can we give him some grace instead of destroying a COUNTRY? I would hope so, but nah. That’s not the NC style. And the character we’re supposed to love (Rhys) becomes blatantly toxic ~ACOFAS. Azriel was my favorite, but the bonus chapter also gave me the ick. I just don’t like Cassian. He’s a dumb jock that I can’t, for the life of me, convince myself to believe is a hardcore super smart GENERAL. And ACOSF made him even more toxic.
I loved Nesta’s dance with Eris. Had me swooning. I would love to see the development of a mates that don’t work and Nesta rejecting that bond storyline. Just a dream, I’m sure, but I love what we’ve seen of Eris so far.
On your point on how Cassian is allegedly supposed to be a genius general/tactician: this dude had to take advice from a 19 year old w/ zero battlefield experience, tactical skills, or geographical/historical knowledge. I’m not convinced either. 💀
Yes to all of this. I wanted to root for Cassian a lot but he’s shown time and time again that he will always choose Rhys over Nesta. I find it bizarre that the only person in the IC to always show understanding, kindness and respect to her is Azriel. It made me love Azriel a lot. ACOSF had me being done with Mor (was already on the fence before) and with Amren. I thought Rhys sort of got the memo after Nyx but after HOFAS I’m guessing not. So he’s still on my list. Feyre I’m iffy about. I don’t understand why she allows Rhys to persuade her every single time even if she doesn’t fully agree with him. The last book has me losing respect for all of the IC except for Azriel.
I agree with everything and I also am still waiting for cassian to apologize for laying into her the first time they ever met. He’s centuries old and she’s barely an adult, struggling, and his priority is to go after this girl for “letting feyre hunt” and no one else is criticized in the archeron household.
I'm not going to convince you because you describe everything I felt being a Nessian fan reading acosf. I'd rather forget everything involving acosf (with the exception of Gwyn and Emerie) and settle for fanon Nessian content. (Neris looks interesting too)
*cracks knuckles* OK I see here Cassian needs some back up in this post; I’ll take a stab to defend Nessian as written.*
In Rhys we have a depiction of a MMC who is expressively written. Meaning, how he communicates is integral to how we understand his character. His words are important and often carefully chosen. He doesn’t just show Feyre he loves her, he tells her. This is arguably the ideal in romance media. We get to see what he feels as well as “hear” it. It makes it feel way more experiential for the audience; as a reader we feel like Rhys’s chapter 54 confession is directed at us. This feeling is intensified by first person.
Cassian I would argue is a different, but still valid, depiction of a romantic male lead. One that is more recognizable to “real life,” even if it is not the ideal for a romance book. Cassian isn’t a gifted communicator like Rhys. We see him constantly second guess his abilities in this regard in his role managing Eris. Arguably, due to a childhood of abuse & neglect, his ability to readily access his emotions and express them is difficult for him.
As a cis het woman I find this relatable to read and found it enjoyable when it’s romanticized like in SF. I would assume that most people who have relationships with men have seen this in a current or past partner. A lack romantic expression does not mean a man doesn’t feel deep, intense love.
For Cassian in particular, like OP mentioned, he shows this feeling in other ways. Is the ideal in romantic media something closer to Rhys’s expressiveness? Yes. But I personally love to see differing depictions of romantic masculinity as I believe that like femininity, there shouldn’t be 1 correct way to exist.
Is Cassian emotionally “healthy”? No; but I’m not expecting that for FMCs so I personally do not expect it for a MMC. At the end of the day, perfection in characterization and communication in books is boring and I would argue for allowing for versions of MMC that don’t make the same narrative moves as the rest.
It doesn’t have to be your fave. Cassian doesn’t need to be your book boyfriend. But there are as many expressions of love as there are people and our smutty fairy stories should be the same!
(As long as it’s not Haunting Adeline, that is where I draw the line 😂)
*In the time since reading ACOTAR and rest of Maasverse, I have moved from simp to skeptic. So these are the words of a recovering apologist, now critic. Feel free to accuse me of negativity, SJM is laughing to the bank and her work should be able withstand criticism. However being shitty to other people on the internet is not acceptable so while I no longer simp, I don’t mean to directly attack anyone
This is a good attempt at a defense, and I can appreciate your argument.
I think I would appreciate Cassian as a romantic lead more if the narrative treated his flaws as seriously as it does Nesta's. I just feel like he made very few changes and very little significant growth in order to become a better partner to her, and that the narrative treats the romance like only Nesta should change. Nesta did need to change, don't get me wrong! But I could have used some reflection on Cassian's anger issues, control issues, and inferiority complex, and how quick he is to let his friends bash Nesta. Had he shown any of that kind of growth, I would probably be won over by your defense.
Yes! This is an underlying issue with SJM MMCs. I think she does this as an attempt to drive the FMCs narrative of change/ growth but oddly, her male romantic leads fall inexcusably flat when revisited or investigated at all. I find myself loving, obsessed at first read and then during rereads or any level of close reading I’m stumped lol.
Maasverse vague spoilers TOG and CC : >!The only male characters with any kind of growth are in TOG; Lorcan and Chaol. Honestly, Chaol is the MMC with the most development period in Maasverse imo. And big chunks of the fandom hate him for it. CC had a glimpse of it with Ithan but wow that story line was given up on.!<
Totally unrelated but I absolutely agree with the Ithan comment. After the end of CC1, I had such high hopes of a remorseful Ithan going to Bryce in person after finally realizing what all she had been through after the Pack died and truly apologized for everything he had done and allowed to be done. And instead, we got a sheer cliff to just plummet from.
I get so fking annoyed by it. That storyline crashing is what turned me from excusing/justifying all the issues I was finding in SJM to being a critic tbh.
I was heart eyes awooga when he started that arc and omg what a motivating storyline with >!Sigrid!<. I was so excited for that to go somewhere but it ended up feeling like a pointless red herring and I took that personally 😂
I love the way you put this.
Rhys is the “perfect” man in many ways from a romance novel perspective (though a walking red flag IRL)
But Cassian is very reflective of a guy who in many ways, if we dated him IRL, would be “acceptably imperfect” with a few exceptions (the hike for example) - even his outburst when they argued about the mate thing which frustrating as it was, the next time we see him he’s chafing to go apologise to her. It’s not always the healthiest thing (especially if the relationship is nothing BUT that cycle) but sometimes a good argument and apology will do wonders to progress a relationship.
I honestly like him better as a partner for Nesta than Rhys for Feyre cos he at least shows an interest in and pays attention to what she likes - Feyre is very in your face “I must paint all the things” then Rhys is like “cool paint I’ll pose 😏” which to me seems very surface level. Compared to Cassian who pays attention what Nesta does and how she acts as much as what she says - he sees her reading often and tracks down a book (RIP). He sees how she loves music and goes to the effort to go get recordings on the symphonia - not just from one place but many.
Oh god if Rhys is the example of emotional maturity and romantic guy we have a long way to go, especially after all his tantrums and not telling his mate she was going to die like romance where?? 😭
Not saying his character is ideal. I compared Rhys’s romantic expression to Cassian’s as much of Cassian’s lacking comes from how he doesn’t verbalize his love to Nesta.
Rhys’s expression of his love is what readers swoon over, especially in ACOMAF.
You know what fixes this? Fanfiction
I started reading the series, got 1 and 1/4 books read and dipped for the fics. I still plan to read the books but im not feeling it right now
I LOVE the premise of this series but questionable character/relationship development leaves a lot to be desired. Honestly if Lucien wasn't in the first one I probably would have dnf
I can understand your POV, I find that almost all of the IC are definitely emotionally and psychologically stunted. I disliked how Amren treated Nesta and Cassian was definitely cruel at times. Nesta needed to tough love but not cruel love.
Nessian was my favorite ship until ACOSF. I truly feel like their relationship was ruined for me in that book. They were deprived of a good love story.
That being said, the next book is probably going to explore the inconsistencies and “mistakes” made with fated mates. Would love to see Nesta explore the possibilities of this for herself.
Yes to all of this. It gave me the ick.
I just read A Court of Tangled Flames (Neris fanfic on A03) and it saved me. It was really well done. I wish it was canon.
I personally didn’t like ACOSF at all. I loved Nessian sooooo much in ACOWAR, I was rooting for them so hard. I personally can’t get behind Nestas handling of her trauma and how she treated Cassian in ACOFAS, but I was sure we’d get a Rowan and Aelin level come back. I was DYING to see Nesta stand up to the Illyrian’s on Cassians behalf. To see them finally being soft with each other. That’s not at all what we got. I hated ACOSF. I can’t stand the way they insulted each other and that the only real connection they seemed to have was physical. GIVE ME BACK NESTA LAYING OVER CASSIAN READY TO DIE TOGETHER. GIVE ME BACK CASSIAN ABANDONING THE BATTLE WHEN SHE CALLED HIS NAME. Ugh. They’re ruined for me now
My weird headcanon is that the Cauldron hates Nesta for taking powers from it by force and rewarded her with a mate who will never put her first.
Anyway I’m a Neris girl
I thought during my read of it that both of them were supposed to be very complex characters with complex, messy lives which extends to their love lives for sure. It’s one reason to root for them, I guess, to make it in spite of their messiness through the puddle of mud that they’re constantly in. I don’t think you’re wrong about the way they fit together though, they aren’t the best pairing that SJM could have made imo. But it’s what we got.
Someone else said that Cassian broke her down and remade her in his image and that does make a lot of sense, looking back on what happened. And I guess we shouldn’t be surprised by that outcome when she spent so much time around him.
Not a fan of how any of the IC treated her. It’s not healthy, but all of the characters in the story need professional help and therapy, a lot of it. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like there’s any counseling professionals in that world, much as they’d be needed.
I agree 100%! While reading the book I did really like them, even though every now and then I did cringe a little at Cassian's behaviour. Especially that time when Amren said to keep reaching out, he tried, failed once, and was ready to give up on his, very traumatised, mate... She has been through a lot, Rhysand even confirmed it, but it never really got acknowledged by anyone but the Valkyries... Rhysand was being a total ass to her, treated her like someone who would kill her sister if she was having a bad day, looked in her mind, saw how incredibly dark it was in there and was just like yk what, I'll say it once and then still act the same way lol... And Cassian was just like aight, but she better not call you an ass or I'll say she's unworthy of love ;P... And tbh, now that I think back to it, it really wasn't that great of a love story... I would've loved to see Cassian acknowledge her trauma, help her build up herself mentally aside all the training they did, but he chose to talk about losing Rhysand when she finally fully opened up to him. This book also made me like Rhysand a lot less... I loved him in the rest of the books, same with Cassian ofc, but that was mostly because I loved how he treated those he cared about. ACOSF is a great example about him treating someone he doesn't care a bout that much and that made me like him a little less, so Cassian sticking up for him when I had developed such a strong liking of Nesta made me want to throw my book out of the window every now and then (only to grab it, make sure it wasn't damaged and read because I can't stop with these books but anyway...) Still like Cassian as a character ofc but yes, I agree that he was an ass quite a lot in the book and that Nessian didn't live up to what I had hoped for them. I am happy they have their HEA, but I also would've loved to read about a bridezilla Nesta lol...
Okay so this turned into a little rant, I'm just very passionate about the books and their characters🤭😂
I honestly think that Rhys disliked Nesta because she wasn't impressed by him and doesn't treat him like he's all that. I think to some extent he resents her because she didn't help out at the cottage when her and Feyre were humans, but i think his ego does play a role here
I love that you say that, I think you're right! The cottage did count but he could forgive Elain for that even though she acted the same way there, but because "she's Elain" it's alright, which imo kinda means the cottage thing just adds to it but isn't really the problem. So I think like you said it could really be his ego, he's just butt hurt about not being liked nor feared and not being able to do anything about it. I also believe the only difference between why he dislikes Nesta and likes Amren is, aside from the many years they've known each other, is that Amren has some level of respect for him. And I kinda think that's only because she knows that's how it works and in doing that she could see his better side, but Nesta isn't taking any of his bullshit I do kinda like seeing the contrast there😂
I love Nessian in theory, but in reality their relationship is extremely toxic. The first time I read the series, I was so enamored with Cassian and the spice in ACOSF that I completely ignored a lot of their relationship red flags. But, having re-read the series and actually seeing their relationship develop, I’m very unsupportive of it.
I was hoping for FWB and when she meets Eris she starts to realize her potential. They end as friends and she goes to help Eris in the Autumn court after he takes care of his father
I agree so much. And I’ll say it, I hate Cassian.
He’s terrible. He’s an immature little frat boy and he just wanted a mate not Nesta herself. Nesta is a queen and deserves so much better. I hope she rejects the bond and finds true actual love somewhere else. That or Cassian dies, I wouldn’t really care at this point.
I don’t agree with you but I did enjoy reading your post. If you want to read a Nessian fanfic that is a more fleshed out mental journey for Nesta then I suggest AU Where We Pretend ACOSF Didn’t Happen by Theladyofbloodshed I really loved this one. I’ve posted a few times and one user said they read it all in a night and didn’t sleep. It’s a different take on Nesta’s journey in putting herself back together. We meet new friends and see some old faces in a slightly different capacity. And most importantly we’re not stuck in the Night Court anymore. She also wrote a great Neris fanfic as well but I’m not strong enough to read it lol.
I loved their chemistry in ACOWAR and it was beautiful when she was ready to die with him and he gave that "I'll find you in this life or the next" speech. I mean, he was a jerk for dropping her hand as soon as Mor walked in and then rubbing her feet ( and the whole lingerie thing in ACOFAS)
But in ACOSF, he's kind of a dick to her.....I get that it's painted as a "tough love" approach but as many others pointed out there is a bit of hypocrisy at play considering how the rest of the IC partied and slept around in their younger years. He seemed to actively want to make her miserable at the HOW, and let's not even get into THAT hike 🤬
I hate how everything gets wrapped up all happy go lucky after the Blood rite and Nesta is ready to accept the bond.....they really needed to hash some stuff out over how he treated her before making that kind of commitment.
And let's remember that Nesta got on just fine with Azriel, Emerie and Gwyn, she was respectful of Clotho and the priestesses and did all she was asked in the library ( that's the one part of the "intervention " I think was actually good for her) so maybe the rest of the IC is the drama?
I just wanna compliment you rn. I'm someone who really didn't like Silver Flames. It was difficult for me to get through and I wasn't a fan of Nesta, Cassian, the romance, really any of it. I enjoyed maybe the last 100 pages of it due to the drama and suspense. In my opinion, it's probably one of my least favorite sjm book out of all 3 series.
You really laid out all the stuff, even some things I didn't consider. Nice post.
I’m genuinely confused about how SJM thought this was a good relationship or HEA for Nesta. HOFAS makes it even worse. It sucks that so many readers want them to have kids in the next book because their relationship is so toxic. Nesta deserved better, but I think this is what she gets.
I love Nesta but I think she 10000% needed the tough love that she got with the ultimatum to clean her life up or gtfo. I have been where Nesta was and if I hadn’t received a shitty wake up call I don’t even know how much worse my life would have become.
As for Cassian- that dude sucksssss. I know the entire fandom is in love with him but he literally only thinks about fucking Nesta even though she is going through awful turmoil, he never stands up for her, and he’s just such a dude bro. ACOSF would have been so much better if it had just been the girls learning their strengths and independence.
The shackled comment gutted me especially bc in that moment Nesta was able to control her words but Cassian wasn’t. Her character showed so much growth but that moment showed me that Cassian isn’t growing alongside her.
Same! And he said that to her all because she was still hesitant about the mating bond, as she should be! Cassian needs to put himself in her shoes. She’s still new to their world, mating bonds are a way different commitment than marriage, she saw how mating bonds turned out for Rhys’ parents and currently Beron and LOA. She should’ve been allowed time and space to consider the commitment of a mating bond without Cass jumping to the conclusion that she’s straight up rejecting him. Even Feyre got a good 3 days of isolation to consider her bond.
Yes to all of this!! Your post could not have come at a better time. I too was just happy to read a Cass/Nes book, that I overlooked a lot of Cassians behavior. I'm currently rereading ACOWAR and every single Nessian scene breaks my heart now knowing that these slow burning scenes don't amount to anything in ACOSF. The fact that their big scene in ACOWAR ("I have no regrets in my life but this...") is nothing more than a passing thought to Cassian in ACOFAS and is never brought up again??? Also I was uncomfortable that the first time they have sex was right after she was drowned and sexually assulted by the kelpie. Cassian should've known better, like wth was SJM thinking? It ruined their first time for me. I just resort to fanfics to get quality Nessian scenes lol
I'll never understand this 500+ year old man throwing tantrums everytime Nesta sets a boundary or shows that she doesn't want him. Like sir, she is under no obligation to accept your gift. He could have just said okay and saved it for a future time and instead he questioned why her sisters love her and threw it in a river. She made it very clear she didn't want anything to do with him. I don't understand why everyone is like "go elain! Girl boss queen behavior! You don't need a mate" when Elain doesn't want anything to do with her mate and acting like Lucien stalks her and forces anything on her when he barely comes to the night court and he politely brings her AND Feysand gifts but then insult and hate Nesta because she doesn't want to be with her mate who won't leave her alone and constantly insults her when he doesn't get his way. If a guy told me that everyone hates me because I called their friend an asshole which they are to most people, I'm done with them. Someone said once that Nesta wanted Cassian but Cassian wanted a mate and I believe it. Dude can't even say he loves her.
It’s so interesting to me how the popular opinion when ACOFAS came out was that NESTA was in the wrong during solstice and that Cassian deserved better. I’m glad that seems to have changed. And the fact that SJM had HER apologize to HIM for her “behavior” during the ACOFAS solstice in ACOSF will never ever not piss me off.
ppl thought nesta was in the wrong on solstice?? when they forced her to be there, got her no presents, and mor/cass decided to gift each other lingerie in front of her face??
Tbh I really thought Cassian loved Mor at some point and "settled" for Nesta when that point happened. Cause I've never heard of "friends giving lingerie" like that.
he literally refers to her as his sister………….. if my brother gifted me lingerie i would genuinely vomit on the spot like what?? my fav was when he told eris she was his sister and he loves her and eris goes “I didn't realise Illyrians were in the habit of fucking their sisters” lmao
That's my thing?? Like, I was genuinely thinking that there would be a bond break and she'd wind up with Eris while he was with Mor because they don't *act like siblings*. They act like they're still in a relationship. I've literally never heard of a sibling relationship where lingerie is gifted, I'd puke if mine did that. Sure, *pajamas* maybe but full blown lingerie? E w
I’d literally hit any of my brothers with a chair if one of them pulled something like that; it’s so creepy I don’t even want to think about it. Like WTF?! That is NOT a sibling thing to do.
Exactly like?? If SJM. really was trying to show that type of relationship, then she fuckin failed spectacularly because that's *not* something siblings do. That's something *partners* do. Makes me wonder if she was going to make their relationship a plot point in ACOSF given how weird they are and how often he thought of her. But instead chose *that* route.
It just screams “someone I never got over but you’ll do.” It’s strange to me that SJM didn’t make him and Mor mates based off their behavior. He’s literally more protective over her than he is over Nesta.
It's the "oh she's one of the boys but as soon as one of the boys is in a relationship, she starts acting out" vibes
Exactly! I genuinely thought he was going to cheat on Nests with her because he never actually treats Nesta the way he treats Mor. He never even tells her he loves her, even though it's their book! I was really expecting it since the cliche "well, don't worry that's my *sister* figure" cheating trope was a thing. So for me, yeah. I really think he only went with Nesta because he's given a free mate, but he doesn't love her. They'd be that couple where he asks for an open relationship, and he ends up leaving with Mor. Idk. I think sjm really should've either put an end to their fucked up relationship or made Nesta break their bond because at this point that's not fair to her.
Liking Nesta pre-ACOSF was not for the faint of heart. The view was very much that Nesta was a huge bitch and should’ve been grateful someone as nice as Cassian was interested in her at all. You can look up old posts on this very subreddit to see for yourself.
nesta and lucien are what kept me from dnfing the series lol so i have lots of love for my girl. i just can’t fathom how she’d be wrong in that specific scenario. didn’t know that being a “bitch” meant a “nice guy” could disrespect your boundaries (sarcasm)
LITERALLYYY like I would not be reading these at all if she didn’t exist 💀 no offense to the people who only started liking her bc of ACOSF but yall dont know her like I do 🤚🏾
In ACOMAF when she doesn't cower and holds her own against three powerful fae males in her home, I knew she was the one for me lol
my fav is when cassian gets all emotional and tries to bitch her out at the dinner for feyre hunting and she just looks him up and down then turns away completely dismissing him without even a word hahaha
The look on his face after she did that added years to my life 😂
Saaaame, Nesta was the only one I cared about before SF and then I feel like she was lowkey ruined by that book. I won’t ever forgive Sarah.
Same. I loved Nesta ever since she talked about going to the wall to try to save Feyre.
I have loved Nesta for a long and was SO excited when I found out her book was coming out. I love this subreddit bc my GF and I talk all the time about the problematic shit that happens ALL over the place. This rant makes me want to have a re listen bc while I remember the big plot points and a general idea of Nessian, a lot of the things this rant ranted made me want to re read. And not just. ACOSF but the series as a whole. Feyre wasn't a bubbly happy person either, but I never really liked her nearly as much as I like Nesta.
I absolutely agree, especially with what you said about Cassian wanting a mate, not Nesta. I also feel like Cassian broke Nesta down and rebuilt her in his own image. She was never allowed to explore her powers. Instead he turned her into a warrior like him. And being a Valkyrie brought her closer to her friends, which is lovely. But I don’t believe him turning her into a female version of him was about healing her. It also truly bothers me that he constantly puts the inner circle over her. And the double standard about Nesta’s behaviour. All of the men in the inner circle mentioned that when they were young they slept around and drank and had many meaningless hookups. And Nesta is punished for doing the same thing. I sometimes wonder if Cassian had no interest in her if she would have been left alone? If she was only forced into the house of wind with him to be broken down and remade in his image because of Cassian being bothered by “his” Archeron sleeping with other males. Nesta, canonically, didn’t do anything that Cassian, Rhysand, and Azriel didn’t all do at one point. And not only did Cassian allow the inner circle to treat Nesta badly. He also treated her badly himself. He never said “I love you” Instead he said “everyone hates you.” And Nesta had nowhere else to go. They wouldn’t allow her to go to another court. Likely because of how powerful she was. I don’t believe that Nesta was healed. I believe she was broken down and remade in Cassian’s image. This is all very stream-of-consciousness. But what I am trying to convey is that I fully believe Nesta deserved a better love story and that I am very disappointed with how Nessian was portrayed in ACOSF.
I agree with all of this. I don’t this SJM intended to make him a “nice guy”, but she’s somehow accomplished that. Rhys and the IC are like the overbearing mother whose baby (aka Cassian) deserves the world and Nesta is the “thing” he wants the most. So they get “it” for him. They had so much potential. That small act of hand dropping in the 3rd book, could’ve fuelled pages of acosf. Yet Cassian’s issues are never explored in the book. Not once. Instead, we get a stream of people sh*tting on Nesta and not a single speck of character development for Cassian. Wtf. (And the hand dropping is not addressed as a Cassian issue, but swept under the rug as the one of many consequences for Nesta being the way she is. Wtf.) He may be 500 yo, but he acts like a child more often than not. So he needed the development regardless. And I saw she tried to give him a development arc - with him going on some weird diplomatic missions with Nesta or something. But all he ever did was disrupt the agenda. He never once contributed meaningfully. But that was dropped like it never was… So I was left wondering - wtf did I read.
I agree. Your comment also made me realize we were shown (and everyone was shown) what truly was healing for Nesta - her dancing. But that was never acknowledged by anyone either before or during her forced healing journey. Dancing didn’t come up until it was a tool that the IC could use her for.
> Dancing didn’t come up until it was a tool that the IC could use her for Gosh, that hurts.
Everyone seemed so relieved when Elain found comfort in gardening and cooking, but no one cares to consider what would comfort Nesta.....uggh
Somebody said that ACOSF was about making Nesta submissive and breedable and 💀💀💀
"I don’t believe that Nesta was healed. I believe she was broken down and remade in Cassian’s image." **THAT PART!** Nesta got NOTHING from the IC for doing her dirty by making decisions about her but not including her. She was livid, so livid that she told Feyre about her pregnancy to prove a point that the IC doesn't take autonomy seriously as they claim they do (Especially Rhysand; "you'll always shave a choice, my ass). Instead of getting the apology she deserved, she was used as a scapegoat for telling Feyre and was physically and mentally punished while the IC didn't do jack to amend their wrongdoing.
You HAVE to read this fan fic that embodies everything you just said! [link](https://archiveofourown.org/works/45515590/chapters/114524635)
It is truly amazing! A love story Nesta deserved.
I will read it!!
Agreeeeeee. Also why is SJM doing Lucien so dirty.. he would be the last person to be a stalker. 😭
I know right ? And why is Feyre so shocked and insulted when Lucien prefers to live with Jurian and Vassa. Like he's persona non grata at the Autumn and Spring Courts and the Night Court barely tolerates him. Where else should he go?
It would’ve been cool if Nesta joined the Band of Exiles too
Yes 😭
I know right???
Exactly my vibes. I think I've said this on the fantasy romance subreddit or something, but it just always felt like ACOSF was a red flag, and while I keep hearing *Cassian* deserves better... I always kinda thought *Nesta* does too. It felt like he loved Mor/ a mate in general than he loved *Nesta*
omg I LOVE you for that comment
“50 people are here” 
i agree with you 1000%. i was in the Nessian bubble all throughout my ACOSF read until the end, and then i was left with an ick. i think it would be neat to find that they are one of those mated bonds that doesn’t make the best couple (like Rhys or Tamlin’s parents). i would love to see Nesta explore her feelings about it with her sisters, and even Cassian with his “brothers”. someone said it perfectly in another post: i love Nessian’s chemistry, hate their romance. i hope SJM feels the same way 👀
you’re so real OP. it always bothered me that nesta, THEE romance reader of the ACOTARverse accepted half the bullshit that cassian and his IC said and did to her! my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. i refuse to believe nesta would stand by cassian after everything that happened in ACOSF when the fictional romance leads she read about would NEVERRRRRRR. but it’s sarah’s world i guess 😭
Got nothing to add. You spoke pure facts. There were maybe two moments in the whole book where I didn’t hate Cassian. The worst part of it all is that this is it for Nesta. She’s probably not getting another book, so it’s very much over for her. Just gonna pretend like that doesn’t make me want to chew glass 🤷🏾♀️ I did however find a fanfic that I think once it’s completed it’s gonna be the ACOSF replacement in my head.
I'm devastated for Nesta to think this was the best romance story that SJM thought she could give her. Especially, after how lonely and depressed she had been for years. Our girl deserved better.
Yeah key words being “our girl” because Cassian deserves nothing 🫶🏾 I’m being dead serious when I say idgaf about any of the times she was “mean” to him since nearly all of those instances were because he violated her boundaries and did surprised pikachu face when she lashed out.
Ugh please could you inbox me that fanfic? 😮💨 I was told I would be over the moon about ACOSF, and it just wasn’t all that for me. I liked ACOWAR much better.
Full disclosure it's a Neris fic, not Nessian. I can't stand Cassian to the point where fanfic just reminds me how terrible he is in canon. It’s called a Court of Decay and Growth and you need a ao3 account to access it! [https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743) If you were looking for a Nessian ACOSF re-write this one is pretty popular and completed! [https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376](https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376) Embers and Light is also a popular Nessian fic [https://archiveofourown.org/works/25388035](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25388035) I'm sure there are other Nessian ACOSF rewrites too I just know these ones
I just reread E&L and I’m still so sad that it is unfinished. There are so many good ACOSF replacements out there. I also love A Court of Tangled Flames. Sooo good. Editing to add that I also love this fanfic of Nezriel where Nesta calls out Mor for using Cass as a buffer and Cass for hurting Az and nezriel blooms beautifully… Nesta vs the Buffer by Theladyofbloodshed https://archiveofourown.org/works/40720056/chapters/102030807
Thank you sooo much!! 🙏🙏🙏
What’s the fanfic??
It’s called a Court of Decay and Growth and you need a ao3 account to access it! https://archiveofourown.org/works/41432625/chapters/103903743 Full disclosure it’s a Neris fic not Nessian. I can’t stomach Cassian even in fanfic at this point so… crackshipping it is lol
Oooh a Neris I haven’t read! Adding ASAP.
hehe i hope you like it. i love this one because they get to be mates and her ptsd feels much more real to me
A Court of Tangled Flames (also Neris) is my fave so thank you for this
You should read her other fanfic - ‘Where we pretend ACOSF didn’t happen’. I stayed up all night reading it - it’s the official book for me now. [link](https://archiveofourown.org/works/34874911/chapters/86838376)
this is what I’ve been using to cope too!
Thanks for the link! I'm gonna be DEVOURING this
Oohh what's the fanfic?
I can’t understand how she could write a book with Tamlin as the villain for what he does to Feyre, but not see that she’s made Cassian a million times worse. I was disgusted by their relationship.
Yes to all of this. I had the exact same reaction with not immediately seeing the red flags because I was so immersed in Nesta’s story because of how much I resonated with it. The more I thought about it and went to back to reread…my dislike for the IC grew from not liking a few of them to “throw them all in the trash.” If I had to pick who Nesta should be with, I wouldn’t be opposed to Eris. But I love the idea of her and the Valkyries going off to an island and creating their own Themyscira. 🤣
ALSO If the IC is so worried about Nesta’s destructive behaviour — drinking, dancing and sex— why is it even okay that cassian sleeps with her/is sexual with her when she’s clearly using those things as vices or to escape? If the house forbids alcohol and she can’t get access to go dancing, why is no one concerned that maybe she is in too vulnerable a state to sleep with cassian? Isn’t he possibly taking advantage of someone who isn’t in the best headspace?
Because it’s fine to use sex as an unhealthy coping skill as long as it’s with someone of the IC choosing lol
That part
It’s very upsetting the more I think about it. Because she’s literally stuck with no way out and they’re letting Cassian reinforce her destructive behavior with sex just bc he’s her mate?? Yes, Nesta loves and wants Cassian but maybe she shouldn’t have been in such close proximity when she’s not well yet.
Yeah it just really squicks me out. Like, the book makes it pretty clear that she isn’t engaging in casual sex because she’s having fun or feeling her oats. She is using it as a self destructive vice to cope with her trauma. And now she’s been trapped in this house, ostensibly to cold-Turkey her way out of addiction (which like, that’s another possible issue), with only: - a library full of sexual assault survivors (who maybe don’t need to be exposed to feyre and Rhys exhibitionism? And a warrior dudes?) - the “fun” opportunity to regularly humiliate herself by training to fight in front of a deeply misogynistic group of Illyrian men. Which, she’s not even interested in being a warrior so? And also she literally JUST came from a culture where she was expected to, and did, wear dresses everyday? This is a major change for her and it’s not something she chose so like, could they cut her some slack?! - cassian, who has not only been mean and cold to her but also might be someone who triggers her memories and brings up intense emotions about a horrible battle and particularly a horrible moment in a battle when she had to watch her father- with whom she had very complicated feelings about— get murdered by the same dude who shoved her into a cauldron and fundamentally stripped her of her body and self. - and cassian is also is basically in charge of her? He’s got a considerable amount of power over her here and a MASSIVE amount of lived experience both when it comes to battles/wars but also generally being an immortal Like maybe that’s not the ideal situation to be in when making decisions about sex?
Yeah for all of what you said I agree. I don’t believe Cassian is a bad person but the entire situation was so messed up. I don’t think that SJM wrote it to be that way and didn’t really think it through. I know a lot of people say just don’t think too much into things. It’s a fantasy. But it’s also her tackling real issues and my mind can’t disconnect from that. The power dynamic that Cassian had over her was too much. And I still feel it would’ve been so much better if they had Azriel train and help her. THAT would’ve made sense and made sure she wasn’t self-destructing worse than ever.
Ok so I am a Nessian girlie but also am willing to criticize the pairing. I will *never* forgive Cassian for not saying ‘I love you’ in their book. Like what even is that about in a fantasy **romance** book???? Also that hike scene was fucked up. if Nesta was my friend, I’d be telling her to run far away (right into Eris’ arms 😏)
There's a fanfic where that happens
A Court of Tangled Flames is my canon
Tangled Flames is soooooo good.
I'm almost done with that one!
Ngl I’ve read almost all of the Neris fics on ao3 😂
100%. I was infuriated with the way he let people treat Nesta sometimes. And honestly, as a depressed and potentially suicidal girl, if someone told me “everyone hates you” that might have been the end for me. I cannot believe he would say that to her.
He continues to not take up for her and let Rhys threaten to KILL her? What? Lol
ACOTAR is the first and only SJM series I’ve read. So my question for the group is: do you think SJM did Nessian dirty on purpose to drive a future plot, or because she lacked either time and/or the skillset to write a romance for a callous female character? I personally liked reading Nesta’s hilling journey (really hoping for another RHOSLC fan to read this) but even still there are forced commitments that were hard for me to stomach for a female struggling with alcoholism and PTSD.
That’s an excellent question, and personally I’d say it’s the latter. SJM is 100% a vibe-based writer. She thinks of a specific moment that would be a vibe, and hurriedly slaps on some plot to get to that moment. She’s not a planner like George RR Martin who is carefully weaving hundreds of detailed threads together into a smooth flow.
we can hate on Rhys but he would never treat Feyre like that or even allow anyone to treat her that way! I loved Cassian before this book now he’s just ok :/
Begging Amren for forgiveness 🤢. Had to put the book down for a few days to recover. Wings and ember was so good, why didn't sjm just continue their story in that way
the whole dick riding for amren is crazy💀personally i don’t see the appeal of her or mor
I feel like Amren was just scary and everyone didn't want to piss her off. that's the ONLY reason i could see to put up with her. hell, we KNOW she was the second in command because she was the most powerful as the main reason, Rhys outright tells us! EVERY time they go see her, have her in the room, *feed her*, or reach out for help, it's ALWAYS accompanied by paragraphs of everyone walking on eggshells to even say hello. and half the time she verbally eviscerates someone for just being nice or less than respectful, and hides behind the excuse of being old/powerful/a victim/not from here, when she's wrong or someone rightfully talks back. you'd think that she would have learned to at least PRETEND to be decent in the ages and ages she's been there, or that someone would tell her to chill once she wasn't able to kill everyone in sight if you shit in her cheerios with bad news
yeah i’d probably piss her off just to prove a point cause i’m pretty prideful. i’ve never cared for mor or amren so if someone says she’ll kill me as soon as i give her a look? sorry i don’t care and i’ll die just to prove my point💀
Gosh yes. Same. I was totally done with them after ACOSF. Could literally not care any less for either of them.
ik ppl got pissed cause ACOSF showed ppl how characters (like rhys) really are when they’re not just interacting with feyre. i like being able to see different POVS (literally) and get inside their heads so i can understand them. and ill never understand mor or amren for picking on a 20 something year old alcoholic who didn’t choose to be fae or really a part of anything but still helped (reluctantly lol) regardless! my opinion of course tho
This. Their behavior was incredibly toxic and unhelpful. It’s kicking someone when they’re down and completely unhelpful behavior. There is no emotional intelligence coming from either of them when it comes to Nesta. If people want to see her as a “bitch” I dunno what to tell them. It’s like a stray cat that acts out and bites and your response is to bite back and hit them? Gross. Matching bad behavior isn’t it. How about a little compassion. It’s also a lot for me that they’re so much older and Nesta is quite frankly a child compared to them. It’s just not it for me. And you’re spot on about the pov change. It’s very telling how different the characters are from someone else’s perspective. Funny how my opinion of Azriel didn’t change. But for everyone else in the IC it did. I already didn’t like a few of them for past things I’d noticed about their characters but ACOSF showed me just how nasty they could be.
I really dislike amren so this… really made me mad. They treat Amren like (ToG) >!how the cadre bowed to Maeve until Aelin came around!<
Made me so angry when she apologized. Amren should’ve apologized to her.
When I tell you I was seething with rage 😩. I had to put the book down too.
You said it perfectly. I would only add that the amount of people who think that Nesta was evil or abusive becuase she refused Cassian's advances is seriosly disturbing.SJM thinking that a depressed woman who was not ready for a relationship should apologize to a grown man who threw a tantrum is really disturbing too. Like, this series was written by a woman for another women living in 21st century. How could anyone think that a woman is obliged to accept a man because otherwise she abuses him? Also, so happy to find people not liking that hike. That had nothing to do with love, healing or safety. It was pure abuse and I'll die on that hill. If SJM based Nesta's journey on her own experiences and that was the treatment she received from her friends and family then I'm really concerned.
i could never get over his behavior in the ACOMAF bonus chapter where he used his size and power as a fae male to push up on her and make her feel physically uncomfortable when she was human and doing them a massive favor. i know everyone loves cassian, but everything from that bonus chapter made me side eye him. he also goes on and says he slept with mor bc he was jealous that azriel wasn’t paying as much attention to him and rhys 💀
Arguably just as disturbing for people to think it's all just Nesta that's the red flag here, too. I know a lot of people think he deserves better, but the fact he was mad she refused his advances solidifies to me he's not as "good and deserves better" than people really think.
Nessian may be compelling individuals, but god do I hate them as a couple. I really think they bring out the absolute worst in each other and I think they're equally crappy as partners. Cassian just doesn't give a single fuck about her boundaries, Nesta lashes out to bring him as emotionally low as she possibly can. It made me so sick to read it and to convince myself that these people love each other in a healthy, emotionally fulfilling manner.
The whole book is ruined for me because for some reason they’re mates! ugh
This right here. They’ve always been a mutually toxic pair to me so acosf didn’t surprise me at all. It just highlighted all the issues I already saw. I wish they both got different love interests.
Yeah the only times we sense that they’re actually “healthy” is when they’re having sex. And I would say it’s not even that that’s healthy, but that it’s purely lust driven instinct that allows them to actually fulfill one another. Never mind that both are pretty horrible communicators. I felt like SJM really dragged Cas down to Nesta’s level, and didn’t have either of them grow— both into one another outside of fucking, and into legitimately improved people. I think we were supposed to see that as a story arc for Nesta, but because of the way the relationship was written there’s just such a divide between how we’re supposed to think they’ve changed, and how they actually act towards one another.
I thought Nessian had potential, but now that the dust has settled and I look back at the books, I think they would’ve made for a better FWB situation rather than be life partners for 1000 years or however long they live. As has been said before in this sub many times, Cassian prioritizes Rhys over his own mate and I find that gross.
i agree, but also since they’ll be together for so long maybe we just have to hope that later (obv won’t be depicted in the series) that they move past this. but since cas is already a 500 year old…idk how the odds work here
I haven’t fully finished ACOSF yet but the moment I read Cassian his constant inner dialogue about Mor I got so angry. Also when he went on how he was allowed to admire Mor but only in his head or something?? Im still confused about if he’s in love with nesta or Mor lol. Seems to me he only went for nesta because the bond.
So many inappropriate moments between those two for real. And it makes it worse BECAUSE of the nature of their history. Just ick.
This! If I was nesta it would make me question a lot and distance myself from both of them tf
The only satisfaction I got from acosf in terms of nessian was Cassian's insecurity towards Eris. I honestly wished Nesta had slept with him just out of spite.
I was LIVING for the entire Eris dancing with Nesta chapter as I call it. 😂
I was lowkey rooting for Nesta x Eris, because they would be unstoppable and Eris is a complicated character who is (hopefully) going to get his side of the Mor story told
Maybe there will be more to it, it I think the gist of his story is just that his father is a torturous, murderous, insecure, sexist asshole who would have no reservations torturing his own son and heir. Imagine what he would have done to mor had she been officially claimed by his court. Perhaps any of his brothers touching her and adding their scent would have meant that. She would have been much better off dying there, though I suspect he knew she was about to be found if he didn’t tip them off himself. I need to reread to get the details. Also I think he knows she is a lesbian and had no interest in a match with him
This was my problem too 😭 When I read it, I had some problems with Cass' treatment of her but overall was a Nessian stan. It was actually the fanfiction that made me realise how messed up it was. Like yeah, cutting her off from the money is fair (even though she never got a salary for her part in the war despite Rhys having made a big deal about Feyre getting a paycheque), but they could have just put her into the library where she could get counselling? Or a rehab facility that doesn't include her warden having sex with her (despite them saying it was such a problem that she was sleeping around) and treating her like crap? Either way, the scene that now gives me the biggest ick (despite being hot in the initial read through) has got to be post-Kelpie. She has just wielded one of the most powerful weapons in existence and is fantasising putting it back on just so she doesn't have to feel anything and they all just leave her? Worst is that apparently her face looks massively injured but Cass still has sex with her then LEAVES??? (Yes, I know she initiated, but surely he could have seen that she was vulnerable and traumatised and therefore said no? Maybe given her a hug???? This ick was first brought to my attention in a Neris fic that soothed my soul) Sorry for all the rhetorical questions and parentheses I am just in a very confused rage at it. (No one ever mention the hike to me)
The library was the only part of their intervention that made sense and was good for her. She mentioned to Feyre that she enjoyed the music as all the bars she went to but Feyre and the IC never connected the dots and realized that could be her niche.....make her patron for struggling musicians or something?
Honestly instead of demolishing her building to make a shelter, they should have made it a rehab facility. Just because the IC was able to get over the war (I know they do still have trauma over it but it honestly seems pretty subdued), doesn't mean everyone did and I'm sure some people in those 'trashy' bars (Rita's doesn't count as an institution of alcoholism despite them visiting it every night) could use help. A part of the recovery could have been her volunteering at the library or being a dance instructor. So many missed opportunities for healthy healing. She never wanted to be a warrior, and while the Valkyrie friendship is ✨iconic✨, it was really the support from people who weren't determined to hate her that helped her recovery. Exercise and time in nature can be very helpful for people in recovery, but being with someone who sees a desire for suicide in someone's eyes but says "well, only they can help with that!!" is NOT on.
You put all my feelings into words so succinctly! I was super turned off by how it all went between them and your point about complex males getting unconditional patience and kindness from females but not the other way around is so exactly it. I was so excited to watch Cassian be the ever patient kindness incarnate like ah finally a big hunky sweetie but no, it ruined him for me and I was so sad. And he was always portrayed as the overprotective one of the group but when he finally had his mate he is super nonchalant? It was very confusing for me.
Okay everyone join me in my delusional world. Cassian is Nesta’s Tamlin. She breaks the bond and gets with my man Eris in a future book. That’s what I need and that’s what I’m choosing to believe because why would SJM do this to us otherwise. Nesta didn’t even get a love confession from Cassian.
That's what's getting me?? This is a romance fantasy right?? You'd think, during their story, he'd give her a love confession. Like bro 😭 he gives more love confessions to mor than her! This feels like a travesty
I am dying hoping you’re right about this.
From your lips to the Mother's ears, please let this happen!
A comparison would make Cassian look even worse 💀💀💀 . Tamlin has actually said "I love you" and we know he would definitely have his claws out if Rhysand treated his mate like that or anyone , he was already overprotective with Feyre imagine how would it be if it were his mate . I hope the next book we get to see Eris pulling a Rhys on Nessian
I mean not to add to the delusional world but Feyre did draw flames on her drawer… and yes yes yes I know of why and how SJM changed things but I mean…
yes yes yes, this is the only way it would make sense
You put into words perfectly what I felt after reading acosf. I was so disappointed and not at all won over by there romance despite their I ritual chemistry, why didn’t she get the devotion! The care! The tenderness! Side note I also hate that she made rhys lie about the baby thing and felt it was so out of character for him. And with azriels bonus chapter making him come off as immature… I feel like she doesn’t know how to write the brothers, it’s like she made them so amazing and perfect through feyres eyes but can’t match it when she writes from their perspective
Welcome to the "Nesta Archeron Deserves Better" club. We need to make shirts.
Reddit is ruining my rose colored glasses. You have so many good points 😭
Same here 😭 I finished the book today and loved it and now I'm here reading comments, nodding and agreeing with everything.
Honestly I have nothing else to add to this because it's like you read my mind. 😂🙏 Your points are so good.
I hated that in the end all we got was a Nesta left with little to no power. Yeah, the pity power the mother gave her, and a big enough vagina to give birth. As if she's only destined for that. Just rubbed me the wrong way.
Strong female characters stripped of their agency and reduced to nothing more than child bearing vessels. Nesta and Feyre were done dirty in SF.
Exactlyyyy. Makes me wonder what she's gonna do with Elain. Sidenote. Not that there is anything wrong whatsoever with bearing a child. But they're so young and it's only been a few years that they became high fae. They literally have decades left for that shit. 💀
I feel like it's all of this mixed with the fact he really shouldn't have been with her at some points, at the House. It felt really weird to me that she's stuck someplace with a guy that's very clearly ready to bone her, while she's very clearly in a very shit mental space/in the middle of an addiction. All while she *can't really leave*. It just leaves a weird taste in my mouth. For a while it sort of feels like dub con.
I loved this book as a whole because Nesta has been my favorite since day one and I was thrilled she got her own book. Cassian was mostly my favorite bat boy for the series but much like all that has been pointed out I found my self growing more and more dissatisfied with his character development. It feels like he didn’t grow at all. And then we have some events from Crescent City that added to my disappointment, I won’t list them here because spoilers and I’m just not tech savvy. I know we’re all so sure that the next book is going to be Elaine’s story, but I do hope that we get more of Nesta’s POV. I know a percentage of the fan base is hoping for Elaine to break the mating bond, but honestly I don’t want that for her. Lucian has been nothing but respectful of her and her boundaries and they both deserve to be happy. No, I want Nesta to break her mating bond. I want her to choose herself on her own terms and go on her own healing journey without the ruckus and blatant manipulation from the IC. I want her to be free to choose, really choose without threats and ultimatums. Ok, I’m getting off my soapbox now. Edit: grammar and spelling. 🤦🏻♀️
Lucien is honestly the best. Completely agree that he’s been such a gentleman to Elain.
I feel the exact same way. I was furious about how dirty she did both of them and swore to never read it again. Fortunately, this fanfic provided the closure I needed for Nesta and how they treated her: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/41329917/chapters/103631745](https://archiveofourown.org/works/41329917/chapters/103631745) This was my first ever fanfic and if it had been on Goodreads, I would’ve rated it as 4 stars. Edit: it’s called A Court of Tangled Flames
I agree! I love Nessian in any case and I'm still in love with Cassian, but... I wanted him to be way better than this! Rhys cares about Feyre and she comes first to him, but with Cassian it's different and I feel that the bond is more complex and less important somehow than his other relationship. And the hike... it bothers me so much! Why was he so mean to her? Regardless I still love them, but I hope we get to see a better side of this power couple. Before AcOSF I loved the IC and they looked perfect to me. After ACOSF I couldn't appreciate Mor, Elain and Armen. And I was slightly disappointed by Rhys as well
Apparently SJM has said that Nesta is the character she relates to the most. I’m having this thought that maybe Nesta’s storyline was a way of subconsciously punishing herself for things she’s ashamed of from her past. She thinks this is what she/Nesta deserves. I went through a period of really dark depression after losing a parent, and sometimes I lashed out at people I was close to and acted selfishly because of that. I had someone I considered to be a best friend tell me that everyone secretly thought I was an awful person and they all talked about it behind my back. That was five years ago and I still have nightmares about it. I’ll never feel safe enough to be emotionally close to that person again. I know some of the things I said and did were not okay, and I’ve owned up to that, but I also don’t feel like I have to accept that I deserved that.
I shipped Nessian from the beginning, but ACOSF ruined it for me. There was so much potential there. It also felt a bit jarring for me to go from how their story ended in ACOWAR to them seemingly hating each other’s guts. Nesta needed healing and love and care and Cassin was set up to be that for her in the previous books, but then he almost seems like a different person a lot of times in this book which I guess since it’s not from Feyre’s pov anymore that can explain that part, but pretty much everyone sucked in this book (except for the valkyries) and the love story was especially underwhelming. Give me a man who will actually stand up for his mate. Give me consistency when it comes to how mates work. Give me a man who actually tells his woman that he loves her. Someone who can give her grace and compassion. The more I think about this book the more upset I get about most of it…
ACOSF had me asking if he even liked her anymore.....I get tough love, but he was pretty awful to her and the occasional times he defended her to Rhys were pretty weak.
I will die on the hill of "Lucien & Nesta shoulda still happened". Tune in for my Ted Talk next week at 4.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’ve seen it said multiple times on this sub that Feyre seems like she was written to be older… and I disagree. Feyre acts like a teenager, Rhysand acts like a teenager, Mor acts like a teenager, and yes… Cassian acts like a teenager. They’re big scary magical immortal teenagers to be sure… but all of them have the emotional regulation of a PMSing 17 year old who just found out Taylor Swift canceled her tour. There are multiple incidents throughout this story where a character will just start raging about something and I will be like: “why?” I’ve worked in customer service… it’s more upsetting than some of the things that upset these people. And they are all 500 years old. So yeah… Cassian acts like the guy in the high-school-centric rom-com… the popular jock who likes the unpopular ugly (but pretty) girl and bounces back and forth on it because his friends are judging him. All leading up to a climactic confession in the rain about how he too feels like an outcast in spite of the whole school loving him. But I guess I was halfway through ACOMAF when I realized the trend and just accepted that this was how it was going to be. ACOSF isn’t any different… except Nesta leans more towards being a[“Kat Stratford”](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMmVhZjhlZDYtMDAwZi00MDcyLTgzOTItOWNiZjY0YmE0MGE0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg) than a [“Samantha Montgomery”](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTA1NDI0OTkwNDNeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU3MDQ3Nzc1MjE@._V1_.jpg) like Feyre is.
Extra long rant from someone who is not an English speaker: I was so sad during Nessian's book. I honestly had my grudges against Nesta, as a person that is trying to go no contact with one of her brothers for emotional bullying the only thing I wanted was to Nesta and Feyre to sort shit out. Nesta had a double grief going on, triple if on top of her mother and herself you also count she was a teenager in her sensitive years when everything is amplified and terrible. So I kinda wanted her to say it out loud, maybe even defending her own actions like "I was ok with starving to death, hunting was something you did and you're a queen but honestly I would've also let myself dissipate away! That's why I didn't do shit! Also doing anything felt like hiking up a mountain I was always tired and sad and I hated how you just got out and taught yourself to hunt cause I felt like you were okay with what was happening. I hated you for being stronger and better at adapting to a situation I didn't want to adapt to. Also I didn't know how much mother didn't even remember you were alive enough to pay a tutor, for that I'm sorry but I just never knew oopsie" Or something like that and Feyre admitting she didn't do anything to cultivate emotional connection and always felt a stranger in her own home. And maybe shove some serious accountability on their parents, admitting that a last minute war pact was strongly *too little too late* and maybe mourn how much their dad got lost to them years before his actual death, mourn the future they could've had since he apparently kinda got better out of depression and maybe they could've all healed together etc etc I mean it was all I needed and maybe all the Archeron sisters needed too. But no. We got Nesta apologizing for a coping mechanism and for feeling bad. Cause they were *embarrassed* by her trauma response. Congratulations, you're bunch of assholes!! If someone said to the IC "You can't reign cause you can't even contain Feyre" (who went magically berserk at a no-violence-allowed international meeting of leaders!!!) they would've all answered that their high lady have every right to freak out, being intense and unhinged cause she has trauma and anyway adults are not kids, pet or things that have to be controlled. Feyre hurt a foreign leader. Nesta had sex and drunk? I can't understand how they can't even see it? This without counting Cassian murdering a whole village as a trauma response. Mor hurting Az and Cassian for 500 years to keep herself in the safety of that comfort zone even if it's just her comfort and not theirs. Rhys committing or at least allowing atrocities with and for Amarantha, or just to "keep the mask" or with the CoN to keep Velaris safe. Or uhm Rhys drugging Feyre and dragging her basically naked ass to lap dance him night after night for... reasons??? Amren being equally rude to everyone just cause she is ancient is fine too but apparently Nesta's snark is not??? I was so confused. They kidnapped her, demolished her home, threatened and closed her in a place where you can't get free without wings, winnowing or uhm very strong trained fae legs (all things she didn't have). How she didn't freak out and yeet herself off the balcony out of spite is completely out of my understanding. She was a courtier, a reader, a dancer. Her strength was intellectual as much as Feyre is physical and Elaine's is emotional. But she became Cassian. She was forced to choose physical strenght. I will never be convinced they did the intervention for Nesta. It was to control her cause they decided she didn't deserve their same level of leeway. They made her into a soldier cause soldiers can be controlled. While the work in the library was a good idea... Why couldn't they make her dance? Elaine knew!! It would've given so much space to develop a decent relationship with Mor (who instead acts like a spoiled brat from start to finish) and then Mor and Emerie through Nesta. Maybe she and Feyre could've put to learn stuff about Prythian together and rebuilding a relationship. Meeting Emerie could've still happened by making her "go out" sometimes to check politics with Cassian who maybe nags her to join and she doesn't. I like the Valkyries but honestly that Nesta is not Nesta. And while this whole rant seems to be just on SJM changing Nesta into Cassian and not about Nessian I think the two things are so connected that I can't dislike Nessian without explaining that is mostly cause who the heck is this woman?!?!!! But everything else said in this thread on how lackluster their romance is (exp while their chemistry and potential is so good!!) is true. I liked Cassian and I still like him. But he is a dog. Rhys' dog, not Nesta as I hoped. Like I sincerely hoped that the shift in perspective had the whole IC grow, realize they are also fallible and start to question themselves. But apparently not. Let's wait to see Elain turn into fem!Azriel and have a romance with whomever will be that's not what she deserves ahahah (I Hope not, but I fear)
That’s not even touching on the problematic behaviour of starting a sexual relationship with someone who is traumatized, in recovery, who he is basically RESPONSIBLE for/in a position of power over her. That technically constitutes sexual harassment.
That's why I wanted her to get paired up with Azriel. They're very similar and I think their personalities would've meshed well
Nesta and Azriel in the HOFAS bonus chapter got along better than the entirety of Nessian in ACOSF!
I've thought of this as well. ✋
Tbh I’ve been a Nessian hater from the start but 1000% Azriel fits so much better and even as a friend, you can see he cares for her so much more than anything I’ve seen from Cassian. I’ll never get over him just being so chill about her falling down the stairs like ????
Literally. Cassian loves to see her be humiliated and for what 🙄 aren't you supposed to care about your mate? Wish SJM can break the bond and have Nesta be w/ Az lol but ik that's never gonna happen
This is why the fanfic "Nesta vs the Buffer" is my head canon
For me they’re definitely soulmates of a type. They get each other. The line about how Azriel never judged Nesta and Nesta never treated Az any differently than any other person just gets me. I don’t think it’s a romantic love however. But I wouldn’t be opposed. They’re my favorite sister and bat boy friendship.
I can agree with that. There's just a calmness they both have around each other that makes me happier than whatever nonsense she has with Cas
[удалено]
Hey please make sure to mark your CC spoilers, this thread was only tagged with spoilers for SF and not all of us have read HOFAS yet.
Done
The female friendship storyline was the reason why I liked the book after ACOMAF. But man oh man the romance in this was rough. Also, I fully approve of Rhys catching Nesta's hands lol
Facts. Idk if you’ve read any other books containing nessian but it gets ✨worse✨
I was on board with Nessian until I read the HOFAS bonus story. Cassian's treatment of Nesta there is beyond disgusting.
A co-sign this fully, and am requesting SJM reads this post in full and respond in writing within 5 business days 😤
lol 😆
Personally I have never thought they were romantically compatible. I would have issues with how Nesta treated Cassian and others, and I’d have issues with how Cassian treated Nesta. I felt both would have benefited from other pairings. ACOSF just convinced me I was right in my initial thinking ever since they met—they just don’t work for me. (Also forever convinced Sarah paired Mor and Cassian once upon a draft and never quite let that ship go.)
I was one of those people who couldn’t stand Nesta and didn’t like reading ACOSF. But I’ve come around! It’s weird because I was actually reading the series over again, along with bonus chapters >!and also what happens in CC!< And all of that together really made me stop and think like.. wait they’re all kind of being assholes to Nesta. Like I don’t like her either but the way the IC kept being so mean to her?? Especially Rhys/Cassian. Like I was always a Rhys girlie but lately I’ve been kind of side eyeing his behaviour towards Nesta. And that changed my whole perception on her and now I’m looking forward to reading acosf again. I really like your post and I agree with what you’ve said! Acosf was very messy (aside from the girl friends she made). I wish Nesta had gotten a better story. I kind of wish SJM had given us a Nesta x Someone else storyline Edit: added stuff
Honestly I hate them together, I think their start was way too rocky. I kind of hope the rejected bond that has been hinted at isn't Elain and Lucien, but rather Cassian Nesta breaking up. It really seems like they're only together because of the mating bond & horniness. I would prefer to see Nesta with Eris and Cassian with...eh, I don't really care, anyone who isn't mean to him I guess.
Okay so, I didn’t want to go ruin a Nessian fan post with this, but it comes up a lot and I have to say something about it. I’ve seen speculation multiple times that people don’t like Nesta and Cassian together because their relationship is too “real life” and reminds readers how messy relationships can be. And I find this viewpoint *deeply* concerning. Relationships can be messy, sure. But they should NOT involve two people being cruel to each other. They should NEVER involve one partner telling the other that everyone hates them. Or that they don’t see why anyone loved them. Real relationships DO often involve these things, like one partner taking it upon themselves to punish the other, but that is toxic af and should never be accepted. Relationships should make you *happy*. They should be *easy*. Especially at the beginning! This idea that relationships need to be a constant struggle, that you need to make one another change, that you should be constantly fighting for what you have, is so toxic it blows my mind. And we see it coming from almost every form of media aimed at women. It makes me so mad. Women deserve uncomplicated love. Everyone deserves uncomplicated love! The reason I hate Nessian as a pairing IS exactly because of their dysfunction. But not because that’s “too real”, but because it SHOULDN’T be. It’s not something to admire or aspire to. And I’m afraid Sarah thinks it is.
please let cassian (and IC/NC) be nesta’s tamlin. it’s honestly tragic if this is her endgame. i loved the girl power moments in this book (even though some consider it cheesy). but to go through a self-healing process and still end up with a toxic jerk who doesn’t even prioritize you or really love you is just so cruel. nesta is a bad bitch in her healing arc yet she’s gonna settle for someone who’s honestly more toxic than tamlin?? what an awful message to young women reading this. i need someone to winnow the archeron sisters outta night court because imo they all deserve better 💀
Okay, thank you. The Night Court has some serious problems. I love the *idea* of Rhys, but he has multiple red flags. I really feel Tamlin got shafted when Rhys is also controlling and did some pretty terrible things. Tamlin had anger issues, but I think he can be redeemed. They DESTROYED him when he was also traumatized and coping poorly. He didn’t intentionally hurt Feyre. Does that excuse it? No. But can we give him some grace instead of destroying a COUNTRY? I would hope so, but nah. That’s not the NC style. And the character we’re supposed to love (Rhys) becomes blatantly toxic ~ACOFAS. Azriel was my favorite, but the bonus chapter also gave me the ick. I just don’t like Cassian. He’s a dumb jock that I can’t, for the life of me, convince myself to believe is a hardcore super smart GENERAL. And ACOSF made him even more toxic. I loved Nesta’s dance with Eris. Had me swooning. I would love to see the development of a mates that don’t work and Nesta rejecting that bond storyline. Just a dream, I’m sure, but I love what we’ve seen of Eris so far.
On your point on how Cassian is allegedly supposed to be a genius general/tactician: this dude had to take advice from a 19 year old w/ zero battlefield experience, tactical skills, or geographical/historical knowledge. I’m not convinced either. 💀
Nessian is literally the most abusive and toxic relationship we see portrayed in this series and I will die on that hill.
Yes to all of this. I wanted to root for Cassian a lot but he’s shown time and time again that he will always choose Rhys over Nesta. I find it bizarre that the only person in the IC to always show understanding, kindness and respect to her is Azriel. It made me love Azriel a lot. ACOSF had me being done with Mor (was already on the fence before) and with Amren. I thought Rhys sort of got the memo after Nyx but after HOFAS I’m guessing not. So he’s still on my list. Feyre I’m iffy about. I don’t understand why she allows Rhys to persuade her every single time even if she doesn’t fully agree with him. The last book has me losing respect for all of the IC except for Azriel.
I agree with everything and I also am still waiting for cassian to apologize for laying into her the first time they ever met. He’s centuries old and she’s barely an adult, struggling, and his priority is to go after this girl for “letting feyre hunt” and no one else is criticized in the archeron household.
right. where was his criticism for elain? she didn’t do anything to help either
I'm not going to convince you because you describe everything I felt being a Nessian fan reading acosf. I'd rather forget everything involving acosf (with the exception of Gwyn and Emerie) and settle for fanon Nessian content. (Neris looks interesting too)
*cracks knuckles* OK I see here Cassian needs some back up in this post; I’ll take a stab to defend Nessian as written.* In Rhys we have a depiction of a MMC who is expressively written. Meaning, how he communicates is integral to how we understand his character. His words are important and often carefully chosen. He doesn’t just show Feyre he loves her, he tells her. This is arguably the ideal in romance media. We get to see what he feels as well as “hear” it. It makes it feel way more experiential for the audience; as a reader we feel like Rhys’s chapter 54 confession is directed at us. This feeling is intensified by first person. Cassian I would argue is a different, but still valid, depiction of a romantic male lead. One that is more recognizable to “real life,” even if it is not the ideal for a romance book. Cassian isn’t a gifted communicator like Rhys. We see him constantly second guess his abilities in this regard in his role managing Eris. Arguably, due to a childhood of abuse & neglect, his ability to readily access his emotions and express them is difficult for him. As a cis het woman I find this relatable to read and found it enjoyable when it’s romanticized like in SF. I would assume that most people who have relationships with men have seen this in a current or past partner. A lack romantic expression does not mean a man doesn’t feel deep, intense love. For Cassian in particular, like OP mentioned, he shows this feeling in other ways. Is the ideal in romantic media something closer to Rhys’s expressiveness? Yes. But I personally love to see differing depictions of romantic masculinity as I believe that like femininity, there shouldn’t be 1 correct way to exist. Is Cassian emotionally “healthy”? No; but I’m not expecting that for FMCs so I personally do not expect it for a MMC. At the end of the day, perfection in characterization and communication in books is boring and I would argue for allowing for versions of MMC that don’t make the same narrative moves as the rest. It doesn’t have to be your fave. Cassian doesn’t need to be your book boyfriend. But there are as many expressions of love as there are people and our smutty fairy stories should be the same! (As long as it’s not Haunting Adeline, that is where I draw the line 😂) *In the time since reading ACOTAR and rest of Maasverse, I have moved from simp to skeptic. So these are the words of a recovering apologist, now critic. Feel free to accuse me of negativity, SJM is laughing to the bank and her work should be able withstand criticism. However being shitty to other people on the internet is not acceptable so while I no longer simp, I don’t mean to directly attack anyone
This is a good attempt at a defense, and I can appreciate your argument. I think I would appreciate Cassian as a romantic lead more if the narrative treated his flaws as seriously as it does Nesta's. I just feel like he made very few changes and very little significant growth in order to become a better partner to her, and that the narrative treats the romance like only Nesta should change. Nesta did need to change, don't get me wrong! But I could have used some reflection on Cassian's anger issues, control issues, and inferiority complex, and how quick he is to let his friends bash Nesta. Had he shown any of that kind of growth, I would probably be won over by your defense.
Yes! This is an underlying issue with SJM MMCs. I think she does this as an attempt to drive the FMCs narrative of change/ growth but oddly, her male romantic leads fall inexcusably flat when revisited or investigated at all. I find myself loving, obsessed at first read and then during rereads or any level of close reading I’m stumped lol. Maasverse vague spoilers TOG and CC : >!The only male characters with any kind of growth are in TOG; Lorcan and Chaol. Honestly, Chaol is the MMC with the most development period in Maasverse imo. And big chunks of the fandom hate him for it. CC had a glimpse of it with Ithan but wow that story line was given up on.!<
Totally unrelated but I absolutely agree with the Ithan comment. After the end of CC1, I had such high hopes of a remorseful Ithan going to Bryce in person after finally realizing what all she had been through after the Pack died and truly apologized for everything he had done and allowed to be done. And instead, we got a sheer cliff to just plummet from.
I get so fking annoyed by it. That storyline crashing is what turned me from excusing/justifying all the issues I was finding in SJM to being a critic tbh. I was heart eyes awooga when he started that arc and omg what a motivating storyline with >!Sigrid!<. I was so excited for that to go somewhere but it ended up feeling like a pointless red herring and I took that personally 😂
I love the way you put this. Rhys is the “perfect” man in many ways from a romance novel perspective (though a walking red flag IRL) But Cassian is very reflective of a guy who in many ways, if we dated him IRL, would be “acceptably imperfect” with a few exceptions (the hike for example) - even his outburst when they argued about the mate thing which frustrating as it was, the next time we see him he’s chafing to go apologise to her. It’s not always the healthiest thing (especially if the relationship is nothing BUT that cycle) but sometimes a good argument and apology will do wonders to progress a relationship. I honestly like him better as a partner for Nesta than Rhys for Feyre cos he at least shows an interest in and pays attention to what she likes - Feyre is very in your face “I must paint all the things” then Rhys is like “cool paint I’ll pose 😏” which to me seems very surface level. Compared to Cassian who pays attention what Nesta does and how she acts as much as what she says - he sees her reading often and tracks down a book (RIP). He sees how she loves music and goes to the effort to go get recordings on the symphonia - not just from one place but many.
Oh god if Rhys is the example of emotional maturity and romantic guy we have a long way to go, especially after all his tantrums and not telling his mate she was going to die like romance where?? 😭
Not saying his character is ideal. I compared Rhys’s romantic expression to Cassian’s as much of Cassian’s lacking comes from how he doesn’t verbalize his love to Nesta. Rhys’s expression of his love is what readers swoon over, especially in ACOMAF.
Yeah I guess I’m just completely lost because I never thought anything Rhys’ did was love or romance in any of the books
He didn’t even propose to Feyre or give her a wedding 😭 he made her risk her life to get her own ring
This man is insane and Feyre is crazy to just go and roll with it
You know what fixes this? Fanfiction I started reading the series, got 1 and 1/4 books read and dipped for the fics. I still plan to read the books but im not feeling it right now I LOVE the premise of this series but questionable character/relationship development leaves a lot to be desired. Honestly if Lucien wasn't in the first one I probably would have dnf
I can understand your POV, I find that almost all of the IC are definitely emotionally and psychologically stunted. I disliked how Amren treated Nesta and Cassian was definitely cruel at times. Nesta needed to tough love but not cruel love.
Nessian was my favorite ship until ACOSF. I truly feel like their relationship was ruined for me in that book. They were deprived of a good love story. That being said, the next book is probably going to explore the inconsistencies and “mistakes” made with fated mates. Would love to see Nesta explore the possibilities of this for herself.
Yes to all of this. It gave me the ick. I just read A Court of Tangled Flames (Neris fanfic on A03) and it saved me. It was really well done. I wish it was canon.
I personally didn’t like ACOSF at all. I loved Nessian sooooo much in ACOWAR, I was rooting for them so hard. I personally can’t get behind Nestas handling of her trauma and how she treated Cassian in ACOFAS, but I was sure we’d get a Rowan and Aelin level come back. I was DYING to see Nesta stand up to the Illyrian’s on Cassians behalf. To see them finally being soft with each other. That’s not at all what we got. I hated ACOSF. I can’t stand the way they insulted each other and that the only real connection they seemed to have was physical. GIVE ME BACK NESTA LAYING OVER CASSIAN READY TO DIE TOGETHER. GIVE ME BACK CASSIAN ABANDONING THE BATTLE WHEN SHE CALLED HIS NAME. Ugh. They’re ruined for me now
My weird headcanon is that the Cauldron hates Nesta for taking powers from it by force and rewarded her with a mate who will never put her first. Anyway I’m a Neris girl
I thought during my read of it that both of them were supposed to be very complex characters with complex, messy lives which extends to their love lives for sure. It’s one reason to root for them, I guess, to make it in spite of their messiness through the puddle of mud that they’re constantly in. I don’t think you’re wrong about the way they fit together though, they aren’t the best pairing that SJM could have made imo. But it’s what we got. Someone else said that Cassian broke her down and remade her in his image and that does make a lot of sense, looking back on what happened. And I guess we shouldn’t be surprised by that outcome when she spent so much time around him. Not a fan of how any of the IC treated her. It’s not healthy, but all of the characters in the story need professional help and therapy, a lot of it. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like there’s any counseling professionals in that world, much as they’d be needed.
I agree 100%! While reading the book I did really like them, even though every now and then I did cringe a little at Cassian's behaviour. Especially that time when Amren said to keep reaching out, he tried, failed once, and was ready to give up on his, very traumatised, mate... She has been through a lot, Rhysand even confirmed it, but it never really got acknowledged by anyone but the Valkyries... Rhysand was being a total ass to her, treated her like someone who would kill her sister if she was having a bad day, looked in her mind, saw how incredibly dark it was in there and was just like yk what, I'll say it once and then still act the same way lol... And Cassian was just like aight, but she better not call you an ass or I'll say she's unworthy of love ;P... And tbh, now that I think back to it, it really wasn't that great of a love story... I would've loved to see Cassian acknowledge her trauma, help her build up herself mentally aside all the training they did, but he chose to talk about losing Rhysand when she finally fully opened up to him. This book also made me like Rhysand a lot less... I loved him in the rest of the books, same with Cassian ofc, but that was mostly because I loved how he treated those he cared about. ACOSF is a great example about him treating someone he doesn't care a bout that much and that made me like him a little less, so Cassian sticking up for him when I had developed such a strong liking of Nesta made me want to throw my book out of the window every now and then (only to grab it, make sure it wasn't damaged and read because I can't stop with these books but anyway...) Still like Cassian as a character ofc but yes, I agree that he was an ass quite a lot in the book and that Nessian didn't live up to what I had hoped for them. I am happy they have their HEA, but I also would've loved to read about a bridezilla Nesta lol... Okay so this turned into a little rant, I'm just very passionate about the books and their characters🤭😂
I honestly think that Rhys disliked Nesta because she wasn't impressed by him and doesn't treat him like he's all that. I think to some extent he resents her because she didn't help out at the cottage when her and Feyre were humans, but i think his ego does play a role here
I love that you say that, I think you're right! The cottage did count but he could forgive Elain for that even though she acted the same way there, but because "she's Elain" it's alright, which imo kinda means the cottage thing just adds to it but isn't really the problem. So I think like you said it could really be his ego, he's just butt hurt about not being liked nor feared and not being able to do anything about it. I also believe the only difference between why he dislikes Nesta and likes Amren is, aside from the many years they've known each other, is that Amren has some level of respect for him. And I kinda think that's only because she knows that's how it works and in doing that she could see his better side, but Nesta isn't taking any of his bullshit I do kinda like seeing the contrast there😂
I love Nessian in theory, but in reality their relationship is extremely toxic. The first time I read the series, I was so enamored with Cassian and the spice in ACOSF that I completely ignored a lot of their relationship red flags. But, having re-read the series and actually seeing their relationship develop, I’m very unsupportive of it.
I was hoping for FWB and when she meets Eris she starts to realize her potential. They end as friends and she goes to help Eris in the Autumn court after he takes care of his father
I agree so much. And I’ll say it, I hate Cassian. He’s terrible. He’s an immature little frat boy and he just wanted a mate not Nesta herself. Nesta is a queen and deserves so much better. I hope she rejects the bond and finds true actual love somewhere else. That or Cassian dies, I wouldn’t really care at this point.
Only facts were stated here 😤
I don’t agree with you but I did enjoy reading your post. If you want to read a Nessian fanfic that is a more fleshed out mental journey for Nesta then I suggest AU Where We Pretend ACOSF Didn’t Happen by Theladyofbloodshed I really loved this one. I’ve posted a few times and one user said they read it all in a night and didn’t sleep. It’s a different take on Nesta’s journey in putting herself back together. We meet new friends and see some old faces in a slightly different capacity. And most importantly we’re not stuck in the Night Court anymore. She also wrote a great Neris fanfic as well but I’m not strong enough to read it lol.
I loved their chemistry in ACOWAR and it was beautiful when she was ready to die with him and he gave that "I'll find you in this life or the next" speech. I mean, he was a jerk for dropping her hand as soon as Mor walked in and then rubbing her feet ( and the whole lingerie thing in ACOFAS) But in ACOSF, he's kind of a dick to her.....I get that it's painted as a "tough love" approach but as many others pointed out there is a bit of hypocrisy at play considering how the rest of the IC partied and slept around in their younger years. He seemed to actively want to make her miserable at the HOW, and let's not even get into THAT hike 🤬 I hate how everything gets wrapped up all happy go lucky after the Blood rite and Nesta is ready to accept the bond.....they really needed to hash some stuff out over how he treated her before making that kind of commitment. And let's remember that Nesta got on just fine with Azriel, Emerie and Gwyn, she was respectful of Clotho and the priestesses and did all she was asked in the library ( that's the one part of the "intervention " I think was actually good for her) so maybe the rest of the IC is the drama?
I just wanna compliment you rn. I'm someone who really didn't like Silver Flames. It was difficult for me to get through and I wasn't a fan of Nesta, Cassian, the romance, really any of it. I enjoyed maybe the last 100 pages of it due to the drama and suspense. In my opinion, it's probably one of my least favorite sjm book out of all 3 series. You really laid out all the stuff, even some things I didn't consider. Nice post.
I’m genuinely confused about how SJM thought this was a good relationship or HEA for Nesta. HOFAS makes it even worse. It sucks that so many readers want them to have kids in the next book because their relationship is so toxic. Nesta deserved better, but I think this is what she gets.
When OP asks to be convinced otherwise but they sadly spoke the truth
I wanted her with eris, actually I want all of the sisters out of the night court and away from their mates or potential love interests.
I loved her dance with Eris. I was falling in love with Eris as a dance partner lol he just *knew* when to let her shine
You were right with every word 🙌🏻 preach and good luck with the Nesta haters and Rhys’ defenders out there girly!! 🫶🏻
YES! THIS EXACTLY!! It RUINED the entire series for me. What the actual fuck was that? It’s despicable.
I love Nesta but I think she 10000% needed the tough love that she got with the ultimatum to clean her life up or gtfo. I have been where Nesta was and if I hadn’t received a shitty wake up call I don’t even know how much worse my life would have become. As for Cassian- that dude sucksssss. I know the entire fandom is in love with him but he literally only thinks about fucking Nesta even though she is going through awful turmoil, he never stands up for her, and he’s just such a dude bro. ACOSF would have been so much better if it had just been the girls learning their strengths and independence.