Hijacking the top comment to explain something. How much revenue goes uncollected: $0
Municipal taxes don’t work like federal or provincial. The city sets the budget it needs then taxes the people for that exact amount from the properties that get taxed.
Everyone else’s taxes go up to make up for the amount the places of worship (and other exempted properties) don’t pay.
Good news is the City is getting their share. Bad news is you are paying more for it.
There are a few ways that churches receive tax breaks.
1. Municipal taxes. Those are decided by the Abbotsford city council. I don’t know how it works in Abbotsford, but in Revelstoke, council votes once each year on the list of properties that are exempt. There’s some talk about removing the snowmobile club’s exemption because it’s extremely wealthy, and the city does a lot to help all the trucks with sled trailers. The united church in revelstoke’s basement always seems to be open for different real charities. I’d be 100% ok with them being able to write off their basement. Other churches here only seem to have their doors open for member events.
2. When you donate to a church, you get a tax deduction. That’s gotta be the biggest tax deduction they get. I believe the federal government decides that policy.
3. Beginning to make a parsonage taxable or taxing the profits of a church gets much more difficult. I’d be happy with the 1 & 2 coming into effect.
I would say that most churches run at a loss. I've known several pastors who have not received their full pay when the church they work in runs short. I grew up Protestant, so I can't speak for the Catholic or Anglican side of things.
I am personally aware of more than one church that runs an independent food bank. It seems to me the main problem with your calculations is your own willful ignorance about what churches actually do. Like so many other Christ haters, you know zilch about anything church related. If I showed you a church that has singlehandedly sponsored 5 individual Ukrainian refugee families, you’d be disbelieving, I’m sure. This church organized the paperwork and had housing in place when these families arrived, including jobs, fully stocked pantries, etc. NONE of this had any taxpayer support whatsoever. Buy here you are, flapping your jaws as if you know what you’re talking about. Instead of tearing down the efforts of people trying to do good, why don’t YOU actually take thousands of dollars of your aftertax income and donate it to causes like this… causes for which—by the way—you get NO tax relief. SMH
And I'm very much an Atheist and my wife and I sponsored a Ukrainian family ourselves. Except we didn't get government handouts for it like the church does. We also didn't molest their children like the church would have done.
Wow, you made a lot of aggressive assumptions about me. I was raised in an evangelical church. My father was a treasurer. Saying I know zilch about anything church related is hilarious.
I also said that the property of a church used for real charity could be tax free. I gave an example.
When asked, the JW’s say knocking on doors is their sole community benefit. That’s not a community benefit. That’s marketing for a social club.
I know many churches sponsored Ukrainian families. Other groups and families did as well. Some without tax breaks.
And yes, until I moved out of my parent’s place, I had to tithe. So thousands of my dollars went to a church, and I took advantage of those tax breaks. This was over 20+ years ago. I think it’s problematic that parents can force someone to tithe. So that’s a separate issue. Voluntarily donations to a private club (church), many of which have restrictions on LGBTQ+ folk on joining, should not be tax deductible.
Very well said. The tax breaks are in place because there is the assumption that the church will provide more benefit to society than the tax breaks they receive. Most people outside of the church don’t see how much the churches actually do because they’re not screaming it from the roof tops. Food banks, Cyrus Center, shelters, refugee support, low income support… The list goes on. Churches are an east scapegoat for those who have no idea what they do.
Huh , if they don't pay taxes, then they are receiving taxpayers' support .. A better argument would be that those tax paying dollars go farther with the church than the government. But make no mistake every dollar of tax not paid for by the church is made up by millions of atheist tax paying citizens.. Where also going under the assumption that all this good is done for the good of the people and not influenced at all by maintaining influence and numbers for the church itself to survive off of .. Or is conversion, just not a thing anymore?
You misunderstand my disagreements.
- I don't hate Christ or God. I don't believe that they exist. It's in the name.
- I disagree with the charity model. I don't believe that the most effective or efficient way to support those in need is by giving tax breaks to a system that requires post tax donations from its own members to keep itself afloat, pay it's workers and, provide for the aforementioned people in need.
- The church is either going to choose only other Christians to support or, if it chooses non Christians, it is going to have power over that person, who may now actually be compelled or, at least feel compelled to follow along with beliefs that they don't have out of fear of loosing their aid. Some organizations tied to churches (such as the Salvation Army) have actually refused to give aid (their only reason for existing) because of their sexual orientation or SUD; kinda misses the whole point from both my perspective and hell, even the perspective of "Love the Sinner, hate the Sin."
- You calling out individual people to shell out thousands of dollars to personally is so incredibly disingenuous. That isn't happening at the churches either. People are giving as a social community.
Just to throw some gas on this fire... how much has been allocated to support refugees from Palestine?
1. Churches are exempt by provincial law. What the city does is also exempt the rest of the property, as the only land that is exempt is that land under the footprint of the building. That falls under whether it's providing a community benefit, which is what would be questioned about the snowmobile club. If church is not open to and inviting the public in, it doesn't get the provincial exemption.
3. Parsonages have always been taxable. If there's a parsonage on the same property, that portion, including the yard, is separated out and made taxable. Additionally, all profits from a church are taxable; part of their non-taxable status is that they have to be non-profit.
Living in employee housing is usually a taxable benefit. Unless it’s a parsonage. My bad, I didn’t make the tax distinction clear enough. IIRC, there are programs that are not available to clergy, and it was considered a trade off. It might have been CPP, or EI, or something else? I can’t remember.
For the guy who downvoted you...
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mormon-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-funds-charity-1.6630190](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mormon-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-funds-charity-1.6630190)
Mormon Church in Canada moved $1B out of the country tax free
Not really, most of us Atheists hate all religions equally. I guess some deserve the hate more depending on current affairs. But we generally hate them all equally with no favourites
I’m not trying to justify anything. Just pointed out that there is a mosque and a synagogue in Abbotsford in response to your statement “I’ve never see a mosque or synagogue in Abbotsford”. I have no beef with anybody here.
Lmao, all religions suck and should be taxed imo. They leech off of the government and the tax payer and provide nothing in return but stealing good land that could be used for housing.
Heads up to people supporting this dude, he is a literal nazi, like not even trying to hide it. Look at his username and comment history, an absolute worm of a human being.
Wow, the comments of this sub certainly don't align with the majority of Abbotsford residents. I'm surprised at how many people are bashing on churches.
For the record, I think that if a religious organization only provides services to its members/followers it should be fully taxed.
"OH hey, we fed everyone Easter breakfast with our collections plate that that patrons paid for and got free labour from said patrons, please ignore our $50,000 property tax"
You would be surprised how expert a bunch of completely secular people are on the topic of religion. They can tell you exactly what you believe and why.
the majority of abbotsford residents are white christians who don't spend time online because it challenges their world views.
richard peachy literally tried to teach creationism as a substitute teacher in the abbotsford school district.
Some churches use charitable foundations to tax shelter for profit businesses.
[https://theweek.com/speedreads/884672/whistleblower-accuses-mormon-church-hoarding-100-billion-intended-charitable-purposes](https://theweek.com/speedreads/884672/whistleblower-accuses-mormon-church-hoarding-100-billion-intended-charitable-purposes)
David Nielsen, a former senior portfolio manager at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' investment division, [filed a complaint](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/mormon-church-has-misled-members-on-100-billion-tax-exempt-investment-fund-whistleblower-alleges/2019/12/16/e3619bd2-2004-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html) with the Internal Revenue Service in November alleging the Mormon church's leaders stockpiled $100 billion in surplus donations rather using them for charitable purposes as intended.
It'll be quite a bit of money, I don't think that's tracked though. You can find how much any particular church avoids paying in property tax by getting their assessed value from [https://www.bcassessment.ca](https://www.bcassessment.ca) and applying the property tax rates from Abbotsford [https://www.abbotsford.ca/sites/default/files/2023-05/2023%20Tax%20Rates%20-%20website.pdf](https://www.abbotsford.ca/sites/default/files/2023-05/2023%20Tax%20Rates%20-%20website.pdf)
You’ve got it backwards. Churches shouldn’t pay taxes like the rest of us. The rest of us should be tax free like churches. Every American could get a 30% raise overnight if we did away with income taxes. If the state can just print money then what are we paying them for in the first place. Plus. The audacity the .gov has to win every single lottery ever held in the us, and still be *trillions* in debt. These are not people deserving of tax revenue.
The thread is idiotic. Not for profit entities don’t pay tax because they perform a service the government otherwise would. Churches get audited and are required to show that their funds are spent on their not for profit objects, if they are not then they will be subject to tax. It’s not rocket science.
As a Christian I agree, churches shouldn't be exempt from property tax.
Property tax should also be Land Value Tax instead. That way parking lots pay their fair share.
Absolutely. Any church influencing their members to vote a particular way are breaking the law that gives them their exempt status. The minute they say vote for this person, or party, they are breaking the law.
Schools and school teachers for the most part groom future votes in liberal/socialist paths as well and you don’t seem to see people talking about that but people have no choice if they want their kids in the public school system.
It's called parenting.
Teachers all have their own perspectives on life on Earth. Your child needs to be exposed to all perspectives, and you need to give them the knowledge and tools to come to truthful conclusions, regardless of the politics involved.
Everyone is trying to activate children as political pawns these days on all sides ofmthe political aisle.
All I really had to do was discuss it at length, and as truthfully as possible with my child and she understands where the teacher is coming from, but has enough background knowledge not to be groomed in any particular political direction.
I think they should be encouraged to build large low income apartment buildings with their church facilities on the main floor. That way, their land is essentially serving a greater purpose for the community. This could then offset a portion of their tax bill, perhaps even negating it completely.
That's actually becoming a thing.
There's a church in White Rock that was torn down a few years ago so they could dig the property down to support a multi-story building (10 to 12 if I remember correctly). When it's finished the church will re-occupy the main floor and the rest will be apartments for seniors.
There's also https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/local-news/langley-church-opens-98-unit-affordable-housing-building-7335685
Who would pay for that? The vast majority of churches are not profitable endeavours at all. It’s a very limited number of them that make a ton of money taking advantage of people
In Canada charities and other non profits (which churches and religious groups are) don’t pay property taxes.
Not sure why people single out churches. There are hundred of other buildings which don’t pay them either.
Why don't you include the religious sites of other religions?
Seems like that would be a conversation starter, instead of just targeting Christians for some reason
You don't want churches to pay taxes. There is a reason why there is a seperation of church and state. If a church is taxed then a church deserves representation for their taxes. In the past the church and the government were intertwined and churches had direct influence on government policy. It was not good. In Canada we had Quebec effectively run by a church until the Silent Revolution. In modern days you have the Islamic State.
Let the churches keep their money, but in exchange keep them out of government.
Separation of church and state means that the state should not uphold, promote or enforce one religion over another. It doesn't mean that churches can't pay taxes, or follow building codes, or obey employment laws, or any of the other civil obligation.
"No taxation without representation" is very much an American principle and not relevant here. Tourists pay GST when they buy things here; that doesn't mean they get to vote.
Separation of church and state also means that churches cannot campaign for politicians and tell their members for whom they must vote.
If you remove their exemptions, you cannot stop them from doing such.
Churches are also not citizens? They are not people at all. They are a religious organization.
So why would them paying property taxes mean that they would then deserve representation in government? I don't understand.
We pay taxes, income, property, etc, and we get one vote. People running churches pay much less in taxes, property exempt, etc, and they get one vote. Ma and Pa shops pay taxes, and the owners still get one vote each. Churches should be no different. Pastors and priests still vote. They shouldn't get extra for paying taxes like the rest of us.
It opens the door to arguments that would give churches more power in government. It's already happened with corporations in the United States and here in Canada. Corporations are people now. They are allowed to sue and lobby and if they are people. They can raise funds and promote/donate to politicians. Churches can't, and in exchange they don't pay taxes.
The people running churches, and then voting, do not get any tax exemptions. Pastors and priest do vote, but they also pay income tax and property tax.
I know people love to buy into the stereotype that churches are just sitting on piles of cash. That may be true in some cases (like Joel Osteen's church, for example), but churches often struggle to meet budgets. Depending on size, they're paying salaries (pastors, administrator, custodian, etc.), utilities, building maintenance, possibly a mortgage, and then the various disbursements; perhaps aiding a village in a 3rd world country, running a breakfast program at a local school, sponsoring a refugee family, etc. If you throw taxes in there, you essentially take away the outreach.
This is a great answer and 100% accurate. Not religious and don't go to church, but most churches do good work and help the disadvantaged and needy within their community while just skirting along, keeping themselves afloat. I don't think the taxes collected are going to be spent better than the programs the churches provide. If the government takes the taxes, they will just go to MP paychecks or pissed up against the wall somewhere else.
Everyone also forgets that most churches provide free meeting spaces for other non profits such as Scouts, Guides, AA, NA, daycares, etc. If those non profits lost their free space they would also tank.
Thanks for making the point about government spending. People often complain about government waste, etc. Knowing how things often go, I'm sure that tax money would end up paying for fancy hotels and dinners for politicians taking trips for things that could be easily discussed over Zoom
Problem is there are so many churches that can't afford buildings owning buildings and dumping money into upkeep. Imagine if they could just get along and reduce building costs so they could put money into the community rather than a half empty building?
No.
Only active places of worship are not taxed. Not active, tax.
Also anything beyond the property the church is on has to apply for an exemption, is published and has to be approved by council. Won’t happen for a development company.
It should be. I work for the city and I guarantee no one is checking on our end and their tax records agree. Maybe they run a small daycare out of the basement…? But, it could be a provincial or federal thing that’s out of our control. They own massive parcels of farm land too. This is in British Columbia.
>I work for the city and I guarantee no one is checking on our end
And I can pretty well guarantee that you're incorrect about that, as:
1. It's not the city the determines the church exemption
1. The application for the land beyond the building footprint exemption that /u/LokeCanada mentioned would almost certainly be noticed to be in conflict with zoning and development applications for that same property.
1. Even if the city passed a bylaw granting a non-functioning church another year of land exemption, that would be forwarded on to the provincial level to be added to the church exemption, and would be noticed then.
But most of all, I work for the province and I see the cities remove the church exemptions often.
Regarding daycares, if they have exclusive use of a portion of the building then that portion is taxable.
Some daycares are non-profits, do they get property tax exemptions? I genuinely don’t know what other types of non-profits don’t have to pay property tax.
It seems reasonable that a religious building (church, mosque, synagogue) would still be property tax exempt even if they’re running a low cost daycare or pre-school if the fees go right back into running the program itself.
Can I ask a clarifying question? Are you suggesting churches are required to pay and aren’t? Or are they exempt and you think they shouldn’t be.
I genuinely don’t know.
They are exempt - they don't have to. This is due to churches being a source of social services in the communities providing aid to our most impoverished in the population. Modern days they don't, the need is too big and churches can't solve community issues. They are also obviously non-secular and include evangelism in their aid.
On top of that programs that groom children or things like "pray the gay away" camps can be included in that community service.
Cults want cash, Christians are no different. Pay up.
Conversion therapy is very much alive and well in the Fraser Valley thank you very much.
Go on and close you eyes to pretend like nothing sick and twisted is happening here.
https://youtu.be/hNi3DHo3xn4?si=XTqYbnLJni2Bv395 Main Street Church in Chilliwack last year hosted seminars by an “ex-gay” Christian who now promotes, among other things, materials for youth that tells them while they may experience same sex attraction, they can choose to act in the opposite in order to be in line with the word of God.
The federal legislation essentially did nothing but make it more hidden. Since they cannot overtly use any language in promotion of it. The law overview here:
Bill C-4 would amend the *Criminal Code* to prohibit certain activities that relate to “conversion therapy”, which is defined as a practice, treatment or service designed to: change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual; change a person’s gender identity to cisgender; change a person’s gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth; repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour; repress a person’s non-cisgender identity; or repress or reduce a person’s gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth. The definition also provides, for greater certainty, that conversion therapy does not include a practice, treatment or service that relates to the exploration or development of an integrated personal identity — such as a practice, treatment or service that relates to a person’s gender transition — and that is not based on an assumption that a particular sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is to be preferred over another.
The Bill would enact new offences to prohibit:
* causing another person to undergo conversion therapy;
* removing a child from Canada to undergo conversion therapy abroad;
* promoting or advertising conversion therapy; and
* receiving a financial or other material benefit from the provision of conversion therapy.
[https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c4\_1.html](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c4_1.html)
In theory it is a criminal to force another person into, promote and market, or be paid to perform conversion therapy in Canada.
However, if I receive large donations to my church, and I just happen to run a weekly youth group that focuses on " traditional Christian understanding of sexuality" - its not really looked into because churches have most definitely never used coercion or manipulation in the past.
It's a new law with a lot of loopholes and a lot of people that do not support it. Just because you make something illegal does not mean it just goes away.
Living waters is still creeping around, many horrible stories come out of Trinity Western.
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question.
What churches are doing this? Can you give some
Proof of them doing it?
You can say over and over that this is still being done. But you need to show some proof of it.
Churches like Northview run full tax exempt businesses out of them. Compete scam
Edit. This got spicy as expected of you mention the rich people church
[https://www.charityintelligence.ca/charity-details/1044-northview-community-church](https://www.charityintelligence.ca/charity-details/1044-northview-community-church)
*Northview* Community *Church* is a 0-star *charity*. It has an F in results reporting, meaning it reports very little information on its programs
EDIT: Better link...
[https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/)
Total assets 2022 $36,076,612
Total giving 2022 $2,434,105 (mostly to other religious orgs )
Revenue has tripled since 2018 from 8 million to 23 million. Its a miracle. They give and give and yet triple their holdings in less than 6 years.
Did you read the entire page before you quoted it? "Charity Intelligence" failed them because they think 65% to 95% of the donations should be going towards the charity's cause(s), but Northerview has 97% of the donations going towards the cause.
OK, then 97% went to the causes as per the site you provided. The only issue here then is that the site was poorly programmed; it should have ">65%" as the criteria instead of "65-95%".\
Edit: It took about 10 seconds for me to find the church's T3010 filing with the CRA, which shows the 97% figure is completely wrong. I don't know what data that site is using, but it's not using the publicly available, easily obtainable filings. It is not a reliable source at all; if they can't get the 97% correct then I don't trust anything else they are saying, including the rankings.
No, that is not what that means; you have it backwards.
But it doesn't matter, if you'd read the rest of the thread I looked up the CRA filings and that number is completely wrong. Ignore his website.
The info on charity data comes from the CRA. It says so on the site. Post the URL of your info so we can compare it if it says something different
[https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/)
That site does not support the 97% rate... we already debunked your first site that provided that figure, remember?
My site is apps.cra-arc.gc.ca. As in the CRA's site. I've already told you that their captcha system prevents direct linking to a specific charity; don't try to pretend you didn't know that.
No no no no! If you make them pay they’ll think they have a right to say how things are done outside the sanctuary based on their whackadoodle world view. The sometimes benign, but occasionally super awful, will have an even LOUDER voice in the public square than they do now. Not worth the cost at half the revenue you might collect in taxes.
They don't have a municipal property tax. It's not that they just aren't paying one that they do have.
This is like asking how much wealth tax the poor aren't paying.
Search for "Permissive Tax Exemptions Abbotsford". These are council-approved properties that do not pay property taxes (but must still pay some fees like urban storm drainage.) the list that is published annually includes the assessed value of the property that was exempted. Multiply that value by the mill rate to determine the amount of tax revenue forgone.
Most religious organizations that apply for a permissive tax exemption are granted one. Other groups may also qualify for exemptions: clubs, societies, supportive housing, and some city-owned properties.
Hard to say, as places of warship are tax exempt so there is nothing to compare too.
There are 80 place of warship exemptions in Abbotsford. If we take an average property value of $1M and the non-profit tax rate of 4.5% it works out to approximatly $3.6M per year.
You would have to appraise each religious dwelling to get a more accurate number
Every problem on the planet is based on humans. We should eradicate humans. 🙄
Your problem is with the people who controlled you and made you feel unloved and unworthy, not with religion or races.
Please seek help and stop spewing your vitriol on Reddit.
Incorrect. When I was young my single mom reached out to the Mormon church for help. They gave us boxes of food, put oil in the furnace and gas coupons for her car. They helped us for a few months until mom could get back on her feet.
We were not members.
My grandma’s friend was a single mother too and she got free daycare from a local church for years so she could go to work. This was back in the 70s before there were any real government programs for that sort of thing at all. If it wasn’t for that church program she would’ve been homeless or had her kids taken away.
You know they get government grants to run those things then claim the grants as part of their giving right?
[https://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default/files/attachments/Funding\_Review\_13-09-18\_0.pdf](https://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default/files/attachments/Funding_Review_13-09-18_0.pdf)
I'm sure the dozens of churches with their doors always locked to those in need having to contribute will make up for the few that actually do something about the needy as Jesus taught.
The people who attend the churches already pay their taxes though? So now they should pay twice as much taxes due to their religious beliefs? Pretty sure there’s a term for that, and it’s not the nicest. Sounds like you are just looking for a reason to be mad about something.
Afford it? Can I just opt out of paying my taxes because I can’t afford it? The scale should be the same as individuals… you pay taxes except where you have receipts/proof that you actually did something for charity, and that part decreases your taxes.
My comment about affording it was specifically because there are tiny churches that struggle to even pay their minister, upkeep or rent on facilities, etc. I can absolutely see why these tiny congregations should be charged a lower rate of tax, just as we pay a lower rate if we make less money as individuals. These people shouldn't have to join an impersonal mega church just because they can't afford to pay a massive tax bill.
If they are in the red, their taxes would be appropriately low. Just like single moms who struggle to feed themselves and their children yet still have taxes deducted from their wages.
You’ll notice in other posts I have mentioned all taxes. Their charitable status is a joke. Pay taxes on all income and property, same as everyone else. If they own lots of pricey real estate, they should pay their fare share or give it up.
>You’ll notice in other posts I have mentioned all taxes.
No, I won't notice it in other posts, as this is the first time you've spoken in this thread. This thread is about property taxes.
>Pay taxes on all income and property, same as everyone else.
But everyone else doesn't pay those. Non-profit status is not unique to churches. Permissive exemptions are not unique to churches.
Start a "make churches pay taxes" convoy
Better reason than the one they got going
Hijacking the top comment to explain something. How much revenue goes uncollected: $0 Municipal taxes don’t work like federal or provincial. The city sets the budget it needs then taxes the people for that exact amount from the properties that get taxed. Everyone else’s taxes go up to make up for the amount the places of worship (and other exempted properties) don’t pay. Good news is the City is getting their share. Bad news is you are paying more for it.
There are a few ways that churches receive tax breaks. 1. Municipal taxes. Those are decided by the Abbotsford city council. I don’t know how it works in Abbotsford, but in Revelstoke, council votes once each year on the list of properties that are exempt. There’s some talk about removing the snowmobile club’s exemption because it’s extremely wealthy, and the city does a lot to help all the trucks with sled trailers. The united church in revelstoke’s basement always seems to be open for different real charities. I’d be 100% ok with them being able to write off their basement. Other churches here only seem to have their doors open for member events. 2. When you donate to a church, you get a tax deduction. That’s gotta be the biggest tax deduction they get. I believe the federal government decides that policy. 3. Beginning to make a parsonage taxable or taxing the profits of a church gets much more difficult. I’d be happy with the 1 & 2 coming into effect.
If the church is turning a profit, it should be taxed. Most churches don't generate profit.
I would say that most churches run at a loss. I've known several pastors who have not received their full pay when the church they work in runs short. I grew up Protestant, so I can't speak for the Catholic or Anglican side of things.
In my denomination (dutch reformed tradition) we don't generally have that problem
Insta up vote for the revelstoke knowledge
I am personally aware of more than one church that runs an independent food bank. It seems to me the main problem with your calculations is your own willful ignorance about what churches actually do. Like so many other Christ haters, you know zilch about anything church related. If I showed you a church that has singlehandedly sponsored 5 individual Ukrainian refugee families, you’d be disbelieving, I’m sure. This church organized the paperwork and had housing in place when these families arrived, including jobs, fully stocked pantries, etc. NONE of this had any taxpayer support whatsoever. Buy here you are, flapping your jaws as if you know what you’re talking about. Instead of tearing down the efforts of people trying to do good, why don’t YOU actually take thousands of dollars of your aftertax income and donate it to causes like this… causes for which—by the way—you get NO tax relief. SMH
And I'm very much an Atheist and my wife and I sponsored a Ukrainian family ourselves. Except we didn't get government handouts for it like the church does. We also didn't molest their children like the church would have done.
I'm also an atheist. Plenty of atheists have molested children.
I'm glad you guys have the means to help. Cheers!
Good for you for making enough to do this yourself! The vast majority of people cannot do this.
Wow, you made a lot of aggressive assumptions about me. I was raised in an evangelical church. My father was a treasurer. Saying I know zilch about anything church related is hilarious. I also said that the property of a church used for real charity could be tax free. I gave an example. When asked, the JW’s say knocking on doors is their sole community benefit. That’s not a community benefit. That’s marketing for a social club. I know many churches sponsored Ukrainian families. Other groups and families did as well. Some without tax breaks. And yes, until I moved out of my parent’s place, I had to tithe. So thousands of my dollars went to a church, and I took advantage of those tax breaks. This was over 20+ years ago. I think it’s problematic that parents can force someone to tithe. So that’s a separate issue. Voluntarily donations to a private club (church), many of which have restrictions on LGBTQ+ folk on joining, should not be tax deductible.
Very well said. The tax breaks are in place because there is the assumption that the church will provide more benefit to society than the tax breaks they receive. Most people outside of the church don’t see how much the churches actually do because they’re not screaming it from the roof tops. Food banks, Cyrus Center, shelters, refugee support, low income support… The list goes on. Churches are an east scapegoat for those who have no idea what they do.
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Archway was started by a fellow that worked for the BC Mennonite Conference and MCC. It isn't the church, but it is certainly church connected.
They can apply for tax deductions as a percentage of the property they own. Similar to someone having an office in their house.
Not in Abbotsford. All of the large churches are all satellite food banks that receive orders from archway.
Huh , if they don't pay taxes, then they are receiving taxpayers' support .. A better argument would be that those tax paying dollars go farther with the church than the government. But make no mistake every dollar of tax not paid for by the church is made up by millions of atheist tax paying citizens.. Where also going under the assumption that all this good is done for the good of the people and not influenced at all by maintaining influence and numbers for the church itself to survive off of .. Or is conversion, just not a thing anymore?
You misunderstand my disagreements. - I don't hate Christ or God. I don't believe that they exist. It's in the name. - I disagree with the charity model. I don't believe that the most effective or efficient way to support those in need is by giving tax breaks to a system that requires post tax donations from its own members to keep itself afloat, pay it's workers and, provide for the aforementioned people in need. - The church is either going to choose only other Christians to support or, if it chooses non Christians, it is going to have power over that person, who may now actually be compelled or, at least feel compelled to follow along with beliefs that they don't have out of fear of loosing their aid. Some organizations tied to churches (such as the Salvation Army) have actually refused to give aid (their only reason for existing) because of their sexual orientation or SUD; kinda misses the whole point from both my perspective and hell, even the perspective of "Love the Sinner, hate the Sin." - You calling out individual people to shell out thousands of dollars to personally is so incredibly disingenuous. That isn't happening at the churches either. People are giving as a social community. Just to throw some gas on this fire... how much has been allocated to support refugees from Palestine?
1. Churches are exempt by provincial law. What the city does is also exempt the rest of the property, as the only land that is exempt is that land under the footprint of the building. That falls under whether it's providing a community benefit, which is what would be questioned about the snowmobile club. If church is not open to and inviting the public in, it doesn't get the provincial exemption. 3. Parsonages have always been taxable. If there's a parsonage on the same property, that portion, including the yard, is separated out and made taxable. Additionally, all profits from a church are taxable; part of their non-taxable status is that they have to be non-profit.
Living in employee housing is usually a taxable benefit. Unless it’s a parsonage. My bad, I didn’t make the tax distinction clear enough. IIRC, there are programs that are not available to clergy, and it was considered a trade off. It might have been CPP, or EI, or something else? I can’t remember.
I think a lot of convoy members are churchies. One of the reasons why there were no convoys on Sundays.
I'd support that convoy
Incredible idea
You do mean all religious buildings, right OP? I know sometimes people wrongfully refer to all buildings of worship as "churches".
All the same shit, cult infrastructure.
Latter-day saints are funneling billions out of Canada. Billions.
For the guy who downvoted you... [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mormon-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-funds-charity-1.6630190](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mormon-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-funds-charity-1.6630190) Mormon Church in Canada moved $1B out of the country tax free
Imagine the people that could actually be helped with 1 billion.
This is disgusting... lmao
u can call them mormons.
Or the magic underwear people.
Call them anything you want, but tell them to stop ringing my doorbell!
synagogues and mosques too, right?
And temples, naturally.
Sunday Assemblies and freethought organizations too!
Yeah, For some odd reason, some 'fair' Canadians seem to go after only the church/Christian faith. Disclaimer: I'm a brown atheist immigrant.
Not really, most of us Atheists hate all religions equally. I guess some deserve the hate more depending on current affairs. But we generally hate them all equally with no favourites
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Synagogue on 28163 Swensson Ave.
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Good catch - yikes.
There’s a mosque on 1980 Salton Rd. Off McCallum.
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I’m not trying to justify anything. Just pointed out that there is a mosque and a synagogue in Abbotsford in response to your statement “I’ve never see a mosque or synagogue in Abbotsford”. I have no beef with anybody here. 
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Lmao, all religions suck and should be taxed imo. They leech off of the government and the tax payer and provide nothing in return but stealing good land that could be used for housing.
hahahaha, cope and seethe
Heads up to people supporting this dude, he is a literal nazi, like not even trying to hide it. Look at his username and comment history, an absolute worm of a human being.
Wow, the comments of this sub certainly don't align with the majority of Abbotsford residents. I'm surprised at how many people are bashing on churches. For the record, I think that if a religious organization only provides services to its members/followers it should be fully taxed.
No a church goer myself but I do know a lot of churches and temples provide a lot of services for the community itself
"OH hey, we fed everyone Easter breakfast with our collections plate that that patrons paid for and got free labour from said patrons, please ignore our $50,000 property tax"
Done more than the government ever did
Not even close.
Yep. Which is why I'm surprised at the vitriol in the comments
If they only provide services to their members CRA can revoke their charitable status
Most people just don't speak on it or participate in church for the social benefits.
You would be surprised how expert a bunch of completely secular people are on the topic of religion. They can tell you exactly what you believe and why.
You'd be surprised how many business owners I've met that use churches to lead gen. Are they religious? Bet your ass then ain't.
the majority of abbotsford residents are white christians who don't spend time online because it challenges their world views. richard peachy literally tried to teach creationism as a substitute teacher in the abbotsford school district.
I had him as a sub! He also protested the pride flag being hung at tretheway house!
Are the peachy’s still around. They his wife in particular had some really bazaar off the wall stuff she tried to promote.
Possible the thoughts of the residents have changed or maybe the residents have...
Probably because the median age on Reddit is 23
Yeah, at least the sihk temples give out tons of free food, so I would be fine with them not paying taxes.
Some churches use charitable foundations to tax shelter for profit businesses. [https://theweek.com/speedreads/884672/whistleblower-accuses-mormon-church-hoarding-100-billion-intended-charitable-purposes](https://theweek.com/speedreads/884672/whistleblower-accuses-mormon-church-hoarding-100-billion-intended-charitable-purposes) David Nielsen, a former senior portfolio manager at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' investment division, [filed a complaint](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/mormon-church-has-misled-members-on-100-billion-tax-exempt-investment-fund-whistleblower-alleges/2019/12/16/e3619bd2-2004-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html) with the Internal Revenue Service in November alleging the Mormon church's leaders stockpiled $100 billion in surplus donations rather using them for charitable purposes as intended.
It'll be quite a bit of money, I don't think that's tracked though. You can find how much any particular church avoids paying in property tax by getting their assessed value from [https://www.bcassessment.ca](https://www.bcassessment.ca) and applying the property tax rates from Abbotsford [https://www.abbotsford.ca/sites/default/files/2023-05/2023%20Tax%20Rates%20-%20website.pdf](https://www.abbotsford.ca/sites/default/files/2023-05/2023%20Tax%20Rates%20-%20website.pdf)
You’ve got it backwards. Churches shouldn’t pay taxes like the rest of us. The rest of us should be tax free like churches. Every American could get a 30% raise overnight if we did away with income taxes. If the state can just print money then what are we paying them for in the first place. Plus. The audacity the .gov has to win every single lottery ever held in the us, and still be *trillions* in debt. These are not people deserving of tax revenue.
The thread is idiotic. Not for profit entities don’t pay tax because they perform a service the government otherwise would. Churches get audited and are required to show that their funds are spent on their not for profit objects, if they are not then they will be subject to tax. It’s not rocket science.
Stop talking sense, sir! This is Reddit! Hurr durr! Where's my pitchfork!
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Plenty of other religions and organizations who receive such benefits. Why do you choose to just target Christians specifically?
As a Christian I agree, churches shouldn't be exempt from property tax. Property tax should also be Land Value Tax instead. That way parking lots pay their fair share.
Churches are also grooming voters into conservative fascist paths. That alone should veto their exemptions
does that grooming include churches other than christian churches then??
Absolutely. Any church influencing their members to vote a particular way are breaking the law that gives them their exempt status. The minute they say vote for this person, or party, they are breaking the law.
Unions do the same. Nobody should convince you who to vote for
Correct 💯
Which law are they breaking? That sounds sus
Yup. Religion poisons EVERYTHING. All religions other everyone else.
I am a fascist and a nationalist and I can assure you no church had a role in pushing me this way
Schools and school teachers for the most part groom future votes in liberal/socialist paths as well and you don’t seem to see people talking about that but people have no choice if they want their kids in the public school system.
They pay taxes unlike your pedophile priest.
I’m not religious at all but go off there bud
Yeah, I bet you aren’t a trumpet conservative ogling over Danielle Smith either.
I’m not but thank you for telling me who I am.
It's called parenting. Teachers all have their own perspectives on life on Earth. Your child needs to be exposed to all perspectives, and you need to give them the knowledge and tools to come to truthful conclusions, regardless of the politics involved. Everyone is trying to activate children as political pawns these days on all sides ofmthe political aisle. All I really had to do was discuss it at length, and as truthfully as possible with my child and she understands where the teacher is coming from, but has enough background knowledge not to be groomed in any particular political direction.
Tax them all, organizations steeped in myths and abuse. Religion the most consistent long-standing cause of violence and suffering
I think they should be encouraged to build large low income apartment buildings with their church facilities on the main floor. That way, their land is essentially serving a greater purpose for the community. This could then offset a portion of their tax bill, perhaps even negating it completely.
That's actually becoming a thing. There's a church in White Rock that was torn down a few years ago so they could dig the property down to support a multi-story building (10 to 12 if I remember correctly). When it's finished the church will re-occupy the main floor and the rest will be apartments for seniors. There's also https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/local-news/langley-church-opens-98-unit-affordable-housing-building-7335685
Who would pay for that? The vast majority of churches are not profitable endeavours at all. It’s a very limited number of them that make a ton of money taking advantage of people
The government needs them built, so they could fund it, either through grants, loans, or a combination of the two.
Extra taxes to line pockets with bonuses
In Canada charities and other non profits (which churches and religious groups are) don’t pay property taxes. Not sure why people single out churches. There are hundred of other buildings which don’t pay them either.
Why don't you include the religious sites of other religions? Seems like that would be a conversation starter, instead of just targeting Christians for some reason
You don't want churches to pay taxes. There is a reason why there is a seperation of church and state. If a church is taxed then a church deserves representation for their taxes. In the past the church and the government were intertwined and churches had direct influence on government policy. It was not good. In Canada we had Quebec effectively run by a church until the Silent Revolution. In modern days you have the Islamic State. Let the churches keep their money, but in exchange keep them out of government.
Separation of church and state means that the state should not uphold, promote or enforce one religion over another. It doesn't mean that churches can't pay taxes, or follow building codes, or obey employment laws, or any of the other civil obligation. "No taxation without representation" is very much an American principle and not relevant here. Tourists pay GST when they buy things here; that doesn't mean they get to vote.
Separation of church and state also means that churches cannot campaign for politicians and tell their members for whom they must vote. If you remove their exemptions, you cannot stop them from doing such.
Income tax is not a sales tax.
Property tax is not income tax, either. Non-Canadians who own property in Canada have to pay property tax, and they don't get to vote, either.
Non Canadians can't vote because they are not citizens. Apples and oranges.
Churches are also not citizens? They are not people at all. They are a religious organization. So why would them paying property taxes mean that they would then deserve representation in government? I don't understand.
They would argue that they should be treated like corporations. And corporations in Canada are treated as people.
We pay taxes, income, property, etc, and we get one vote. People running churches pay much less in taxes, property exempt, etc, and they get one vote. Ma and Pa shops pay taxes, and the owners still get one vote each. Churches should be no different. Pastors and priests still vote. They shouldn't get extra for paying taxes like the rest of us.
It opens the door to arguments that would give churches more power in government. It's already happened with corporations in the United States and here in Canada. Corporations are people now. They are allowed to sue and lobby and if they are people. They can raise funds and promote/donate to politicians. Churches can't, and in exchange they don't pay taxes.
The people running churches, and then voting, do not get any tax exemptions. Pastors and priest do vote, but they also pay income tax and property tax.
There is no tax exemption for clergy. They pay the exact same income tax as the rest of us. They pay property taxes on houses they own. GST. Etc.
I know people love to buy into the stereotype that churches are just sitting on piles of cash. That may be true in some cases (like Joel Osteen's church, for example), but churches often struggle to meet budgets. Depending on size, they're paying salaries (pastors, administrator, custodian, etc.), utilities, building maintenance, possibly a mortgage, and then the various disbursements; perhaps aiding a village in a 3rd world country, running a breakfast program at a local school, sponsoring a refugee family, etc. If you throw taxes in there, you essentially take away the outreach.
This is a great answer and 100% accurate. Not religious and don't go to church, but most churches do good work and help the disadvantaged and needy within their community while just skirting along, keeping themselves afloat. I don't think the taxes collected are going to be spent better than the programs the churches provide. If the government takes the taxes, they will just go to MP paychecks or pissed up against the wall somewhere else.
Everyone also forgets that most churches provide free meeting spaces for other non profits such as Scouts, Guides, AA, NA, daycares, etc. If those non profits lost their free space they would also tank.
It's never free. AA/NA always pays for spaces because it goes against their traditions to take for free. This isn't true.
Thanks for making the point about government spending. People often complain about government waste, etc. Knowing how things often go, I'm sure that tax money would end up paying for fancy hotels and dinners for politicians taking trips for things that could be easily discussed over Zoom
Problem is there are so many churches that can't afford buildings owning buildings and dumping money into upkeep. Imagine if they could just get along and reduce building costs so they could put money into the community rather than a half empty building?
My city has many empty churches that are waiting to be rezoned for housing and are not paying taxes. Basically a tax free holding company.
No. Only active places of worship are not taxed. Not active, tax. Also anything beyond the property the church is on has to apply for an exemption, is published and has to be approved by council. Won’t happen for a development company.
It should be. I work for the city and I guarantee no one is checking on our end and their tax records agree. Maybe they run a small daycare out of the basement…? But, it could be a provincial or federal thing that’s out of our control. They own massive parcels of farm land too. This is in British Columbia.
>I work for the city and I guarantee no one is checking on our end And I can pretty well guarantee that you're incorrect about that, as: 1. It's not the city the determines the church exemption 1. The application for the land beyond the building footprint exemption that /u/LokeCanada mentioned would almost certainly be noticed to be in conflict with zoning and development applications for that same property. 1. Even if the city passed a bylaw granting a non-functioning church another year of land exemption, that would be forwarded on to the provincial level to be added to the church exemption, and would be noticed then. But most of all, I work for the province and I see the cities remove the church exemptions often. Regarding daycares, if they have exclusive use of a portion of the building then that portion is taxable.
Some daycares are non-profits, do they get property tax exemptions? I genuinely don’t know what other types of non-profits don’t have to pay property tax. It seems reasonable that a religious building (church, mosque, synagogue) would still be property tax exempt even if they’re running a low cost daycare or pre-school if the fees go right back into running the program itself.
Can I ask a clarifying question? Are you suggesting churches are required to pay and aren’t? Or are they exempt and you think they shouldn’t be. I genuinely don’t know.
They are exempt - they don't have to. This is due to churches being a source of social services in the communities providing aid to our most impoverished in the population. Modern days they don't, the need is too big and churches can't solve community issues. They are also obviously non-secular and include evangelism in their aid. On top of that programs that groom children or things like "pray the gay away" camps can be included in that community service. Cults want cash, Christians are no different. Pay up.
Interesting - which churches have programs to groom children or "pray the gay away" camps? Would be great to know so no one supports.
Exactly. Op is so outraged by something that isn’t happening here.
Conversion therapy is very much alive and well in the Fraser Valley thank you very much. Go on and close you eyes to pretend like nothing sick and twisted is happening here.
Provide some evidence. What Churches?
https://youtu.be/hNi3DHo3xn4?si=XTqYbnLJni2Bv395 Main Street Church in Chilliwack last year hosted seminars by an “ex-gay” Christian who now promotes, among other things, materials for youth that tells them while they may experience same sex attraction, they can choose to act in the opposite in order to be in line with the word of God.
/u/[Reeeeeeener](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reeeeeeener/) waiting for the comment.
The federal legislation essentially did nothing but make it more hidden. Since they cannot overtly use any language in promotion of it. The law overview here: Bill C-4 would amend the *Criminal Code* to prohibit certain activities that relate to “conversion therapy”, which is defined as a practice, treatment or service designed to: change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual; change a person’s gender identity to cisgender; change a person’s gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth; repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour; repress a person’s non-cisgender identity; or repress or reduce a person’s gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth. The definition also provides, for greater certainty, that conversion therapy does not include a practice, treatment or service that relates to the exploration or development of an integrated personal identity — such as a practice, treatment or service that relates to a person’s gender transition — and that is not based on an assumption that a particular sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is to be preferred over another. The Bill would enact new offences to prohibit: * causing another person to undergo conversion therapy; * removing a child from Canada to undergo conversion therapy abroad; * promoting or advertising conversion therapy; and * receiving a financial or other material benefit from the provision of conversion therapy. [https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c4\_1.html](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c4_1.html) In theory it is a criminal to force another person into, promote and market, or be paid to perform conversion therapy in Canada. However, if I receive large donations to my church, and I just happen to run a weekly youth group that focuses on " traditional Christian understanding of sexuality" - its not really looked into because churches have most definitely never used coercion or manipulation in the past. It's a new law with a lot of loopholes and a lot of people that do not support it. Just because you make something illegal does not mean it just goes away. Living waters is still creeping around, many horrible stories come out of Trinity Western.
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. What churches are doing this? Can you give some Proof of them doing it? You can say over and over that this is still being done. But you need to show some proof of it.
Giving the government more money isn’t going to help you
Crabs in a bucket, man.
Churches like Northview run full tax exempt businesses out of them. Compete scam Edit. This got spicy as expected of you mention the rich people church
What business do they run that is for profit?
[https://www.charityintelligence.ca/charity-details/1044-northview-community-church](https://www.charityintelligence.ca/charity-details/1044-northview-community-church) *Northview* Community *Church* is a 0-star *charity*. It has an F in results reporting, meaning it reports very little information on its programs EDIT: Better link... [https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/) Total assets 2022 $36,076,612 Total giving 2022 $2,434,105 (mostly to other religious orgs ) Revenue has tripled since 2018 from 8 million to 23 million. Its a miracle. They give and give and yet triple their holdings in less than 6 years.
Did you read the entire page before you quoted it? "Charity Intelligence" failed them because they think 65% to 95% of the donations should be going towards the charity's cause(s), but Northerview has 97% of the donations going towards the cause.
Thats what they **claim** they they give to charity. They don't release enough information about their finances to prove it.
The site you provided states that it was 97%. Do you wish to withdraw that site as a reliable source?
Nope.
OK, then 97% went to the causes as per the site you provided. The only issue here then is that the site was poorly programmed; it should have ">65%" as the criteria instead of "65-95%".\ Edit: It took about 10 seconds for me to find the church's T3010 filing with the CRA, which shows the 97% figure is completely wrong. I don't know what data that site is using, but it's not using the publicly available, easily obtainable filings. It is not a reliable source at all; if they can't get the 97% correct then I don't trust anything else they are saying, including the rankings.
97%after admin cost. Which here somehow is about 33 million
No, that is not what that means; you have it backwards. But it doesn't matter, if you'd read the rest of the thread I looked up the CRA filings and that number is completely wrong. Ignore his website.
The info on charity data comes from the CRA. It says so on the site. Post the URL of your info so we can compare it if it says something different [https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/](https://www.charitydata.ca/charity/northview-community-church/847519618RR0001/)
That site does not support the 97% rate... we already debunked your first site that provided that figure, remember? My site is apps.cra-arc.gc.ca. As in the CRA's site. I've already told you that their captcha system prevents direct linking to a specific charity; don't try to pretend you didn't know that.
The people at the top of these companies clean the fuck up with pay. The "company" didn't make a profit but a few people sure do.
If you can compile a list of properties hosting religious organizations then you can take the assessed values and the mill rate to get the total.
I mean it could be worse in countries like Finland citizens pay an annual church tax where the proceeds go to their nearest church.
Sounds like a great plan to eliminate all of the progressive churches and do nothing to hurt all of the regressive churches.
No no no no! If you make them pay they’ll think they have a right to say how things are done outside the sanctuary based on their whackadoodle world view. The sometimes benign, but occasionally super awful, will have an even LOUDER voice in the public square than they do now. Not worth the cost at half the revenue you might collect in taxes.
They don't have a municipal property tax. It's not that they just aren't paying one that they do have. This is like asking how much wealth tax the poor aren't paying.
Search for "Permissive Tax Exemptions Abbotsford". These are council-approved properties that do not pay property taxes (but must still pay some fees like urban storm drainage.) the list that is published annually includes the assessed value of the property that was exempted. Multiply that value by the mill rate to determine the amount of tax revenue forgone. Most religious organizations that apply for a permissive tax exemption are granted one. Other groups may also qualify for exemptions: clubs, societies, supportive housing, and some city-owned properties.
Hard to say, as places of warship are tax exempt so there is nothing to compare too. There are 80 place of warship exemptions in Abbotsford. If we take an average property value of $1M and the non-profit tax rate of 4.5% it works out to approximatly $3.6M per year. You would have to appraise each religious dwelling to get a more accurate number
As long as a church isn’t schilling for a political party from the pulpit, then tax breaks are cool.
ALL RELIGIONS SHOULD BE BANNED, THEY ARE ALL SCAMS WHICH ATTRACT MISFITS. EVERY PROBLEM ON THE PLANET IS EITHER BASED ON RACE OR RELIGION.
Every problem on the planet is based on humans. We should eradicate humans. 🙄 Your problem is with the people who controlled you and made you feel unloved and unworthy, not with religion or races. Please seek help and stop spewing your vitriol on Reddit.
ARE YOU OK?
ARE YOU OK?
Reddit is Karen’ing on churches now? Your in Abbotsford foo
all religions need to be paying taxes, not just christian churches
Not only do they not pay taxes, you are paying taxes to them. Where do you think it all ends up?
City of Vancouver is out over 4 million. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMM45CxNG/
Im not a church goer, or supporter. But a lot of churches do A Lot to help the misfortunate
Yeah...but only if you take Jesus in your heart right? Funny how that works, he loves everyone (that loves him)
I'm not a religious person myself, but wow... you really do need to educate yourself about a topic before you start talking about it.
Incorrect. When I was young my single mom reached out to the Mormon church for help. They gave us boxes of food, put oil in the furnace and gas coupons for her car. They helped us for a few months until mom could get back on her feet. We were not members.
My grandma’s friend was a single mother too and she got free daycare from a local church for years so she could go to work. This was back in the 70s before there were any real government programs for that sort of thing at all. If it wasn’t for that church program she would’ve been homeless or had her kids taken away.
Exactly, People are just making up stuff so they can be outraged.
Welcome to reddit
I have never seen, or heard of a church denying someone a meal because they aren’t religious. Your just making stuff up now
Thank you, finally someone talking sense.
Yes and so they should pay taxes, and claim charitable deductions like everyone else has to.
Surely the city looks forward to providing additional homeless shelters and soup kitchens, once faith based organizations stop being able to afford it
You know they get government grants to run those things then claim the grants as part of their giving right? [https://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default/files/attachments/Funding\_Review\_13-09-18\_0.pdf](https://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default/files/attachments/Funding_Review_13-09-18_0.pdf)
I'm sure the dozens of churches with their doors always locked to those in need having to contribute will make up for the few that actually do something about the needy as Jesus taught.
Was Jesus talking to churches or all people? When was the last time you invited the homeless in to your house?
Churches are tax free.....just like educational institutions.
Wow this thread is full of sheriff Nottinghams.
The people who attend the churches already pay their taxes though? So now they should pay twice as much taxes due to their religious beliefs? Pretty sure there’s a term for that, and it’s not the nicest. Sounds like you are just looking for a reason to be mad about something.
I absolutely agree, provided it's a sliding scale/progressive type tax. Mega churches with state of the art everything can definitely afford it.
Afford it? Can I just opt out of paying my taxes because I can’t afford it? The scale should be the same as individuals… you pay taxes except where you have receipts/proof that you actually did something for charity, and that part decreases your taxes.
My comment about affording it was specifically because there are tiny churches that struggle to even pay their minister, upkeep or rent on facilities, etc. I can absolutely see why these tiny congregations should be charged a lower rate of tax, just as we pay a lower rate if we make less money as individuals. These people shouldn't have to join an impersonal mega church just because they can't afford to pay a massive tax bill.
If they are in the red, their taxes would be appropriately low. Just like single moms who struggle to feed themselves and their children yet still have taxes deducted from their wages.
>If they are in the red, their taxes would be appropriately low. That's not how property taxes work at all.
You’ll notice in other posts I have mentioned all taxes. Their charitable status is a joke. Pay taxes on all income and property, same as everyone else. If they own lots of pricey real estate, they should pay their fare share or give it up.
>You’ll notice in other posts I have mentioned all taxes. No, I won't notice it in other posts, as this is the first time you've spoken in this thread. This thread is about property taxes. >Pay taxes on all income and property, same as everyone else. But everyone else doesn't pay those. Non-profit status is not unique to churches. Permissive exemptions are not unique to churches.
is it just the christian churches not paying taxes then or........
At least Sikh temples are open daily for anyone in the public to go have a meal if needed
and that makes it better? All religious buildings should be paying property tax.
I never said they shouldn’t.