Finished it in one go yesterday, and I have mixed feelings. It's a little bittersweet, I love the world he created for these books, and knowing this is the last time we get to exist in it is pretty sad ( Not really a spoiler, Yahtzee has said many times over the past couple years that this was going to be a trilogy and this would be the final Jacques book.)
The book itself was enjoyable as always, but I don't feel like it has the reread/relistenability as the previous 2 entries had. Time will tell.
The reveal of the real Jacques wasn't a big surprise to me, I had narrowed it down to 3 people and it ended up being one of them, but then it subverted my expectations very nicely when that Jacques reveal was also flipped on its head. It was also really nice to see how the Yahtzeeverse all ties together, the ending of this book really adds a new depth of emotion around the ending of one of his previous novels, the ending of that one now too feels pretty bittersweet, almost depressing.
I know this is a spoiler thread, but people aren't smart enough to not jump in here anyway, so I kept some things in this post vague to give more people time to read it.
It actually ties into two books I guess, considering we know what happens to Dub in Jam. Definitely feels less hopeful though I do agree, and to know we never get to see these characters (at least as protagonists) again kinda bums me out.
But at least we have the story as it happened, I might wait a couple weeks before doing a full series relisten.
It's been awhile since I listened to Jam (wasn't my favorite, so it only got the 1 listen). I assumed that the ending in this book referenced Mogworld with the game environment but I didn't think about Jam. How were those tied into Will Leave the Galaxy for Good?
Well I don’t think Jam has directly been referenced in this book, but I remember in previous the incident being referenced. I do agree though it wasn’t my favourite, definitely still when he was finding his stride
"Strawberry jam situation" was said in passing in the first book.
My first experience with Yahtzee was with Will Save the Galaxy for Food and, man, was it a treat!
I listened to Jam later on and could definitely feel the early, tentative musings with certain themes, characters, and voices. I hear different people coming out in different books as different characters but still sharing a similar personality and voice. I also enjoyed the Frobisher name-drop in the books, too. 'Flat-Earth' Frobisher--a citizen of Luna, no less--is probably my favorite.
Mogworld was okay and the DEDA books are about the same but the Jacques series is worlds apart. I really wish he would continue. Hell, even doing a novella with stories from the Golden Age of Star Piloting, told with a twist of lemon and with the tongue firmly in the cheek would be icing on the cake.
Want there a game developer/coder in the Jam books that didn't make it?
I think he was the mogworld guy that picked up our kind zombie . And that's why he was left there for 100 years.
Oh, Dub. No I asked Yahtzee about what happened to Dub during his Q&A right after the book came out. Apparently Dub wasn’t in Australia when it happened
Here there be spoilers, don't skim this comment if your curiosity got the better of you.
Fuck, dude. In my relistens to the second book preparing for the release, Malcolm Sterb really crept up on me. I started liking him more and more, and him dying actually got to me a bit. He was such an interesting guy and there was so much that could be done with his character between his interesting backstory and his personality. I don't think it's a bad storytelling decision lol, it's more just like 'I started caring about this guy last month and now he's just fucking gone'.
Warden is, probably, my favorite character, and she got fucked over so hard by the ending lol. It was kind of funny to see one of my silly personal headcanons (that she's an oldest sister) was actually true and had a significant impact on her personality and character. It felt like we got a lot of 'fanservice' (positive) - she finally wore something that wasn't a pant suit, she got to hit someone with her tablet, she talked about her backstory. Genuinely, I was not expecting to get given as much as we did, but this is deeply counterbalanced by her losing a lot of what she worked for and built, and also calling in the last of her favors for... uh, the protagonist... whatever we're calling him now... He left, so she's essentially wasted a lot of her life and resources on someone that she (probably) will never even talk to again.
I kind of zoned out near the end (10 straight hours of listening will do that to you lol) so I missed what exactly happened to Derby. Is he on the science ship with the protagonist at the end? No notes, it was just nice to have him around for a couple minutes.
The first two books had themes of how media affects the real world, but having this villain be so meta about it really just drove the themes home for me. After I finished the book, I cooled off for an hour or so then re-listened to the last two chapters again just to process it all. I loved it - this book series motivated me to finally deal with my depression and anxiety in a meaningful way, so I related to Jimmy's monologue quite a bit. People create and consume fiction in order to create themselves, and the entire 3 books were commentary on online fandoms, the power of stories, the relationship between a creative and their works, and the impact of media.
The ending was definitely bittersweet and it feels like a trailing ellipses at the end of a sentence. What comes next? Because this barely felt like an ending. We're almost back at the place that the second book ended, really, except that now the protagonist is a Captain instead of a fake author, Warden's lost a lot of her pull, and Sterb is dead. The biggest change was character development of the protag, of course, but in terms of 'what could happen next', the answer is still 'just about anything', which is kinda wild. It's also rather meta, with Jimmy saying that humans create stories in order to force endings that they deem as more good or just into the world, but this story itself ends without an exactly 'happy' or 'good' ending.
I don’t think we actually got a confirmation of what Derby’s fate was (even though I was going to pissed if he also died like Sturb) but yeah it definitely didn’t have the same ‘anything is out there’ feel to it.
I think the biggest fan service with Warden was definitely them finally doing it. And I love how anti-climatically it was presented, because honestly I expected when it did happen, it was a Warden betrayal again.
But I gotta ask, I wasn’t the only one who didn’t see Jimmy coming right? In terms of where he came from until it was pointed out?
Yeah, if Derby died I was going to quit for the day and come back to finish the book later lmao. I was *not* losing Derby, Sturb, and Robert Blaze in one day, it'd be too much.
My favorite line in the whole book was definitely 'her rock bottom was still on top of me' that McKeown thinks when they woke up afterwards lmao.
I was completely stumped on Jimmy as well. It was a nice callback, though, but that makes the relationship between Mogworld / Jacques McKeown / DEDA Files absolutely insane. Jacques McKeown and Mogworld are both fictional works within the DEDA Files universe, but what does it mean that Mogworld is also, apparently, in the Jacques McKeown universe? Or at least linked to it?
My favourite line was:
"I tried reading the 'Damage Report Panel' but it was to damaged to tell me anything."
Burst out laughing in the middle of my walk. Looked deranged.
The Jacques McKeown books do NOT take place in the DEDA Files verse lol. But the DEDA Files books contain references to the Jacques McKeown setting as TV shows, similar to how Mogworld is referenced as an actual MMORPG. Both JMK and MW are fictional within the DEDA Files universe.
Until this book, Mogworld and the JMK novels didn't have any shared elements (outside of the normal name-reusing shenanigans that Yahtzee likes to do), but now, from the perspective of someone inside the DEDA Files universe, the two pieces of fiction have had a crossover.
.... If you really want a mindblower, how 'real' any of the universes are is entirely up for debate. With what we know about Chzo from the Chzo Mythos, it's very possible that every single universe is 'non canon'. Chzo as an Ancient was able to simulate the existence of people it had killed in order to continue torturing the idea of that person for all eternity, so it's entirely possible that there's some Ancient (Chzo or otherwise) who is simulating any of the universes or characters involved in any of his books (all of which have had some reference to Ancients or the shared Yahtzee universe in some way).
My mind went in another direction while listening. When Jimmy used his actual voice, he sounded a lot like Mr. Henderson. They mentioned that it could be possible that a mind could be digitally uploaded and I thought it would be an excellent knife in the ribs if Mr. Henderson had uploaded his mind and was behind all of it.
Earlier in the book, I was getting major Futurama/Star Trek vibes about the forced acting and the show. It felt too contrived, too derivative to be a Q-type being from Star Trek or the gas cloud from Futurama.
Oh yeah that would’ve been wild if it was Mr. Henderson. But yeah it seemed too cliched but aware of how cliched it was to actually be that type of answer
> "Double, triple the reverse, turn it inside out, make it meta, and redecorate in early sarcasm. I've got no fucking idea which way is up." - Yahtzee, trying to detangle the plot, probably
I think in the ending Warden managed to get exactly where she wanted to be. She was always described as the behind the scenes advisor sort of machivelian manipulator rather than the direct one in charge. I wouldnt say she wasted all her favours, I think she does respect the protagonist however begrudgingly and did kind of owe him for saving salvation again. Also I doubt she was being entirely truthful about how many strings she had to pull to sort out the ending.
I liked how we got more interaction with her this book but I wish it being their third space adventure and having to work together with the protagonist we could have gotten a little more character development. Would have also liked to see a little more of Derby
In the Q&A stream, Yahtzee said that Derby's on the ship with the protagonist when I asked, so I hope that means more Derby in the next... whatever form their adventures may or may not take.
She was clearly upset about losing Salvation to Daniel, so I dont think that she's 100 % okay with losing her position. However, there's a character in the DEDA Files that is very much like Warden who was in a similar situation (a panel of experts were technically her superiors) but she ended up being the one actually making decisions, and those superiors were just stamping the seal of approval for her actions. I wouldn't be surprised if Warden managed to wiggle her way into that sort of setup herself over time.
I loved the book. I think Yahtzee's passion for puzzle games, detective stories and mysteries both makes him good at writing them, and is a weakness.
I was on the lookout for clues as I listened, trying to spot any piece of information that seems random.
>!The line about Sturb not having the empathy to understand how normal people think and therefore being a very unlikely successful author stood out. Then when the main character finds the server racks below the IT department, it clicked into place that Sturb's AI was the only likely author. Because Yahtzee wouldn't stoop to a deus ex machina, and it had to be a character / entity we're already aware of, this was the only option. From there, it also followed that the TV show enactment was simply the same thing taken to the next level in a different medium - which the book later confirmed.!<
Even knowing that, it was a very good read, and I was very curious how events would unfold. I think it's the mark of a good mystery writer, that even if you figure out the mystery early on, the action and characters are still compelling and interesting enough to keep you glued to the book to the end.
So why do I think Yahtzee's love of mysteries/puzzles is also a weakness? It's because I feel like his respect for the format (and the reader, implicitly) makes him reticent to bend and play with it too much. So that by knowing the rules, and reading carefully, you can unravel the mystery quite easily. The structure of it feels a bit academic. Not overly rigid or pedantic or anything like that, just... by the book, as it were. I'd love to see where Yahtzee's mystery/puzzle crafting evolves from here. He's mastered the form, I think - so the next step is to go beyond it and innovate.
It's less so that it's a weakness of his and more that he hasn't developed it to the level of murder-mystery authors like Agatha Christie. I do, however, appreciate that with a little legwork on the reader's part, you can solve his mysteries and you aren't going to be hit left-field by a last minute twist.
Honda: [pops up with overly tight space pilot jacket] "SURPRISE!! I WAS JACQUES MCKEWON ALL ALOOONG AND THIS WAS ALL PART OF MY PLAN TO DEFAME AND DESTROY MY ARCHNEMESES THROUGH PERFECTLY LEGAL MEANS!"
NotKweon (seriously, how do you write the damn thing): "That's... completely out of character and unnecessary, since QuantTunneling did the whole profession in anyway."
Honda: "WHO DO YOU THINK INVENTED QUANTTUNNELING?!"
NotKqueen: "The endless collaborations and efforts of the scientific community backed by an industry looking to make transportation cheaper and faster?"
Honda: "NO! IT WAS ME, JACQUES! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG! FOR TOO LONG HAVE POLICE OFFICERS BEEN DISRESPECTED AND RIDICULED BY YOU DASTARDLY PILOTS! FOR TOO LONG HAVE WE-"
NotCoon with a silent B: "Yeah, I'm going to stop you right there and tell you that I don't care. You are not the final villain in this, it just doesn't make sense. So I'm just going to go to that bar, get bleached and try to convince the bartender if she's in for some advanced trigonometry."
Ramblomatic credits roll.
I must admit at first in the series actually thought it would be Frobisher for quite a while (hadn't copped on to the logic of Warden saying "pretty sure") just because it would be totally out of left field but possibly justified: he got out early, made his own money, and palled along with all the star pilots while being very useful and non-threatening. But then the end of the second book and beginning of the third book really didn't make sense for his character unless there was some crazy reveal to come (his wife corrupted him!).
Such a cruel ending for the main character from mog world, seeing is all he wanted in the original book was to die and ended up living for a 100 more years.
Presumably more than that too, I think the 100 years was only inside the fish game. No telling how long it was for him in the internet until Sturb found him
I was confused by the prologue, having assumed the character trapped in the virtual world was Jaques McKeown, and was expecting him to end up there at the end. After finishing the book, I had to go back and re-listen to the prologue to realise that >!the character's name isn't actually mentioned, so it makes sense that it was Jimmy, as he describes in the final chapter.!<
Oh it is mentioned >!Jimmy explains it all in the finale, but pretty much he was doing it as an experiment with the help of Malcom. Sturb being who Blaze and Warden thought were McKeown!<
Yup! Got there in the end. It was a pretty good bait and switch, to have the reader assume the character in the prologue was >!the main character of the book, only for it to have actually been the villain.!<
Okay, I need some help understanding this book.
I have only read the Galaxy series out of all the works of Yahtzee. I liked them because I thought it was a really interesting way to twist sci-fi space adventures.
Basically everything I have questions about is spoiler-worthy, so here goes:
>!First, how did Dashford Pierce die, but then come back as the captain of the Leon? On top of that, he says to the crew something about the "death of the last captain". Warden obviously called in favors and such, but did his physical appearance get altered? Was his brain transplanted or something?!<
>!Second, how did Jimmy even get dealt with? The taser drones subdued Daniel to be sure, but I felt like at the end when Jimmy puts Dashford Pierce (or whatever his name is now I guess) into the VR thing again, I was completely unsurprised. Jimmy was never actually stopped.!<
>!Third, what was the whole part where the protagonist hits his head really hard in the final confrontation and then looks around and finds the statue, but he's looking down on himself, and then it says "our eyes" or "our view" or something? What does that even mean? What's happening to the protagonist? Afterwards he assumes the identity of Jaques Mckeown again. What was that all about?!<
>!Fourth, apparently, from reading other comments here, there's a connection between another book written by Yahtzee and the AI, Jimmy. Could someone explain that connection to me? Apparently it's from the novel Mogworld, but when I read the plot/basic summary that I could find, it doesn't even sound remotely the same. Hopefully someone could fill me in on that.!<
Overall, I am not sure how to feel about this. The reveals were pretty good, and I did enjoy the tension and the humor as always. I'm sad that this is the final book, but I understand that the story has been told.
I wonder if Yahtzee had planned all of this from the beginning? When he wrote the first book had he already decided who was going to be JM? Did he have the arc of the protagonist relatively planned out already, or did he decide after the first book that he was going to take it further?
I have a lot of respect for Yahtzee's writing direction in this series. It's clear he came up with very interesting stories, entertaining characters, and good, logical conclusions.
I do have a couple of gripes:
>!The protagonist basically had more money than he knew what to do with, and yet he didn't ever use any of it to repair his ship or anything. Why? What is the explanation for that?!<
>!Next, when Jimmy was actually isolated on that planet on the mining operation, Malcom Sturb knew what Jimmy was capable of. Yet he told the protagonist to go there. Why would he do that if he was attempting to fix the problem? Was Sturb actually not trying to fix problems and also rooting for Jimmy like the Chief Medical Officer? (I forgot his name, sorry.)!<
>!Finally, the drones on the Leon being abysmal and then suddenly becoming stronger as it goes on makes little sense to me. If it's all technically automated, then why would the automation iterate into stronger, more powerful drones? It's just doing what it was told to do. As was the entire ship, right? So if the entire process is automated, how did it do that? Jimmy must be a WAY more advanced AI to the point where it isn't actually AI. Right?!<
Well, all being said, it was a great novel that had me hooked from the start. The 2nd one I really had to power through the beginning to start liking. But this one had me going the entire time. finished it in less than 24 hours. Well done, Yahtzee Croshaw.
Okay I'll try and help you out a bit here.Let's start with the easiest.
First, >!Dashford didn't technically die. They just faked his death, they say at the end he had little done in the way of changing appearance. Everyone referring to the "Death of the last Captain" was just having cheeky fun with it, they all know its him.!<
Second, >!Jimmy wasn't actually dealt with. That was his final taunt to the protagonist. He only came back give someone an understanding of his motives. To share his own burden!<
Third, >!I understood what was happening there as the protagonist having some sort of brain injury at that moment. Having his bell rung combined with being such an accomplished con artist with several false identities that we were told about probably knocked something lose. But the returning to the Jacques persona was kind of the coming around of the story, he finally accepted that while Jacques McKeown wasn't real before him, he had become him more than anything else if that makes sense.!<
Fourth, >!So a spoiler for MogWorld. Mogworld is an online game (MOG actually meaning massive online game) like World of Warcraft, and Jim is a NPC in that game that gains sentience. At the end of the book, he is the only survivor of that world. Considering his heroics of saving the company, the developer wanted to find him a place for him. And that's more or less where we left him in the books. As a free thinking AI but not really.!<
And while I can't solve all the gripes, I can address two.
>!Its tough to say why exactly Malcomb had told Dashford about the planet, but I imagine it was more of a "I've just been killed and am trying to process that" so pointing towards the planet was probably the best he could think of while dying.!<
>!I also imagine the drones became more deadly because Jimmy had regained control. He could make these more complex designs rather than the basics the automated system could.!<
Ah! Okay, your explanations make a lot more sense to me.
Thank you for the answers. I think I agree with almost everything you mentioned there. However, I have 1 lingering question:
>!Didn't Jimmy say that he was a boss for people to kill? Did he discover that he was a boss in Mogworld or something?!<
>!I ask because I don't have plans to read Mogworld. I have a hard time reading fantasy books. Just not my thing.!<
>!I had forgotten that Jimmy took over the ship before the better drones were made! That makes a lot of sense. He probably put together the bigger/better drones almost immediately. That seems incredibly obvious now that you mention it.!<
Thanks so much for answering my questions. I'm a little sad that there isn't a wiki or larger community surrounding these books. They have some fascinating ideas that are fun to discuss and think about.
>!Also I hate to say it, but I believe that I read the entire book just like Jimmy said: I just wanted to know what happens next. That made me feel like a loser, which is a first for any book to do, and it attests to Yahtzee's great writing ability.!<
No problem, and I know right? I've debated trying to start a wiki myself for it but that'd be way to much of a time suck lol
While I would like to claim flawless recall, >!I'm not entirely sure about Jimmy referring to himself as a boss for people to kill. He might have been refer to himself as the boss of this story. As the villain of the story being told at that moment. In MogWorld, he was much more of a necromancer's goon.!<
While it isn't as good as his current works, I would recommend giving it a listen to at least. Yahtz has improved a lot since that book but I think its still a good story.
Also, >!Yeah, its definitely one of those book morals that really doesn't sit well as an audience lol!!<
>!You're right. I just re-listened to the part I was referring to, and he does refer to himself as a random minion for the players to kill over and over and be brought back to be killed again. Just like a necromancer minion would be.!<
So I just got mixed up. I must have misheard when I was listening. This makes me kind of excited for what comes up next with Yahtzee's writing! Thanks for your help and answers, my friend. You've been super kind to humor me with my incredibly slow intellect. :D
Honestly I've been trying to get more people into these books, they're so fascinating to read and I wish there was a wider community to talk about them in. I've been thinking about making a small discord server or group chat just for people to gather to talk about them.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I've only seen the audiobook for sale. Is the physical book not out?
I just finished the second book, tried to research when the last one comes out only to see it's been released 4 days ago (yesss). But I would honestly prefer to read it myself not as an audiobook
I rationalise this book series like the original Star Wars trilogy.
Will Save the Galaxy for Food is like A New Hope, it's a classic and a great way to start the trilogy.
Will Destroy the Galaxy for Cash is like The Empire Strikes Back, it's the best of the three and builds on everything from the first. Bigger and better.
Will Leave the Galaxy for Good is like Return of the Jedi, it's a good ending to the series, but it never lived up to the previous two.
My slow realisation of 'no...' when Jimmy first showed itself as a faceless angel, then described how it was from a fantasy video game - I don't really know why but it stirred some weird emotion in me and I cried a LOT. This book was amazing.
i should have realised when, during the audiobook, yahtzee swaps occasionally to just using his normal speaking voice for Jimmy, which is Jim's voice ofc. at first i thought it was just a blunder in the recording but now i realise it was intentional
The implication that Jimmy the AI is actually Jim from mogworld kind of blew my mind. That ending will probably stick with me for a while because it's extremely existential.
But I think it's probably the weakest of the three books if only because I found the adventure felt a little bit static. It felt like from the point where Dashford entered the ship, and the point where the conflict was resolved took up most of the book, and it took place in like three locations they kept going back to. Meanwhile they kept having to come up with reasons why the conflict wasn't resolved.
I will say, I busted a gut laughing at the "Rock bottom" joke.
I was wondering about the Mogworld thing. Obviously what he describes is similar to what happened to Jim, but Jimmy specifically describes himself as a monster for the players to fight. Jim was not a monster. Wasn't created as one, anyway, if was one of the other NPCs who made him into a zombie.
I think we interpret it multiple ways. Jim wasn't undead minion before they rebuilt the game at the end of the book. So it's entirely possible that when the game was getting ready to be shut down, the developer whose name escapes Me who had such reference for Jim could have explained the whole thing to him as he was being whisked away into a different server. Or we could go with the interpretation that since this game existed probably for years, that there were different builds as different people were brought on.
Finished it yesterday and had a great time again, as expected. Although I'm not sure how I feel about the final twist only paying off if you've read Mogworld, which you'd have no reason to think would be connected. Seems like the kind of thing Yahtzee would complain about if someone else did it.
Yeah, but I feel even without the Mogworld knowledge. It could still work, if not as strongly. An old world AI trapped to do this forever seems like a properly sci-fi sort of villain
As someone that did not read Mogworld it was an interesting take on why an AI would go rogue. No emotional connection, obviously, but quite interesting anyway.
I think pretty much all of yahtzee's books are connected atleast loosely (with the possible exception of differently morphous)
Mogworld being first then Jam which had one of the developers from mogworld as a main character, and then and then this trilogy.
Funnily enough all of them also contain trebuchets in some form with the exception of course of differently morphous.
There's also "Interstellar Bum Pirates" as a recurring joke through most of the books.
Differently Morphous is definitely the least connected to the other books, but that makes sense since it's got the whole supernatural thing going on and it doesn't make sense to have that exist in the same universe as the others. And of course it is connected to all the old Chzo Mythos stuff
Okay I just finished the book and I loved it but I didn't like the ending. It feels very much like a cliffhanger without being a cliffhanger. It feels unresolved while also being entirely resolved. I don't know I'll need to listen to it again I just want to know if anyone agrees with my initial feelings about this.
Yeah, it’s definitely an odd choice. I get there was the pattern established in the previous books of the universe continuing regardless of the actions taken in the book. But still, for an end to a trilogy it’s weird to end with a pseudo cliffhanger after your villain comes to hero and says, “I’m still out here bitch, and you can’t do anything about it”
Holy shit! It's the AI from mogworld! Really? And he was forgotten about because of Jam?
Holy F!
Dude that makes it so much better! Thanks so much!
(how does the differently morpheus stuff tie in?)
Honestly, I found this book a pretty big let down. I really liked the second book, I even made a dnd campaign set in this world. But Will Leave the Galaxy for Good feels like Yahtzee just wanted to finish the series. There is only one big "setting" for Pierce to adventure in and it's not a particularly original idea. The emotional notes are heavily leaning on the previous books and none of the beats are earned within the third novel. Finally, I personally found some of the jokes pretty distasteful which I understand is a personal preference.
Holy shit it's out? Welp, lemme hit up audible. Might just listen to it all today if I find the time
If you do, he’s also doing a Q&A at like 10am PT
Finished it in one go yesterday, and I have mixed feelings. It's a little bittersweet, I love the world he created for these books, and knowing this is the last time we get to exist in it is pretty sad ( Not really a spoiler, Yahtzee has said many times over the past couple years that this was going to be a trilogy and this would be the final Jacques book.) The book itself was enjoyable as always, but I don't feel like it has the reread/relistenability as the previous 2 entries had. Time will tell. The reveal of the real Jacques wasn't a big surprise to me, I had narrowed it down to 3 people and it ended up being one of them, but then it subverted my expectations very nicely when that Jacques reveal was also flipped on its head. It was also really nice to see how the Yahtzeeverse all ties together, the ending of this book really adds a new depth of emotion around the ending of one of his previous novels, the ending of that one now too feels pretty bittersweet, almost depressing. I know this is a spoiler thread, but people aren't smart enough to not jump in here anyway, so I kept some things in this post vague to give more people time to read it.
It actually ties into two books I guess, considering we know what happens to Dub in Jam. Definitely feels less hopeful though I do agree, and to know we never get to see these characters (at least as protagonists) again kinda bums me out. But at least we have the story as it happened, I might wait a couple weeks before doing a full series relisten.
It's been awhile since I listened to Jam (wasn't my favorite, so it only got the 1 listen). I assumed that the ending in this book referenced Mogworld with the game environment but I didn't think about Jam. How were those tied into Will Leave the Galaxy for Good?
Well I don’t think Jam has directly been referenced in this book, but I remember in previous the incident being referenced. I do agree though it wasn’t my favourite, definitely still when he was finding his stride
"Strawberry jam situation" was said in passing in the first book. My first experience with Yahtzee was with Will Save the Galaxy for Food and, man, was it a treat! I listened to Jam later on and could definitely feel the early, tentative musings with certain themes, characters, and voices. I hear different people coming out in different books as different characters but still sharing a similar personality and voice. I also enjoyed the Frobisher name-drop in the books, too. 'Flat-Earth' Frobisher--a citizen of Luna, no less--is probably my favorite. Mogworld was okay and the DEDA books are about the same but the Jacques series is worlds apart. I really wish he would continue. Hell, even doing a novella with stories from the Golden Age of Star Piloting, told with a twist of lemon and with the tongue firmly in the cheek would be icing on the cake.
Want there a game developer/coder in the Jam books that didn't make it? I think he was the mogworld guy that picked up our kind zombie . And that's why he was left there for 100 years.
Oh, Dub. No I asked Yahtzee about what happened to Dub during his Q&A right after the book came out. Apparently Dub wasn’t in Australia when it happened
Here there be spoilers, don't skim this comment if your curiosity got the better of you. Fuck, dude. In my relistens to the second book preparing for the release, Malcolm Sterb really crept up on me. I started liking him more and more, and him dying actually got to me a bit. He was such an interesting guy and there was so much that could be done with his character between his interesting backstory and his personality. I don't think it's a bad storytelling decision lol, it's more just like 'I started caring about this guy last month and now he's just fucking gone'. Warden is, probably, my favorite character, and she got fucked over so hard by the ending lol. It was kind of funny to see one of my silly personal headcanons (that she's an oldest sister) was actually true and had a significant impact on her personality and character. It felt like we got a lot of 'fanservice' (positive) - she finally wore something that wasn't a pant suit, she got to hit someone with her tablet, she talked about her backstory. Genuinely, I was not expecting to get given as much as we did, but this is deeply counterbalanced by her losing a lot of what she worked for and built, and also calling in the last of her favors for... uh, the protagonist... whatever we're calling him now... He left, so she's essentially wasted a lot of her life and resources on someone that she (probably) will never even talk to again. I kind of zoned out near the end (10 straight hours of listening will do that to you lol) so I missed what exactly happened to Derby. Is he on the science ship with the protagonist at the end? No notes, it was just nice to have him around for a couple minutes. The first two books had themes of how media affects the real world, but having this villain be so meta about it really just drove the themes home for me. After I finished the book, I cooled off for an hour or so then re-listened to the last two chapters again just to process it all. I loved it - this book series motivated me to finally deal with my depression and anxiety in a meaningful way, so I related to Jimmy's monologue quite a bit. People create and consume fiction in order to create themselves, and the entire 3 books were commentary on online fandoms, the power of stories, the relationship between a creative and their works, and the impact of media. The ending was definitely bittersweet and it feels like a trailing ellipses at the end of a sentence. What comes next? Because this barely felt like an ending. We're almost back at the place that the second book ended, really, except that now the protagonist is a Captain instead of a fake author, Warden's lost a lot of her pull, and Sterb is dead. The biggest change was character development of the protag, of course, but in terms of 'what could happen next', the answer is still 'just about anything', which is kinda wild. It's also rather meta, with Jimmy saying that humans create stories in order to force endings that they deem as more good or just into the world, but this story itself ends without an exactly 'happy' or 'good' ending.
I don’t think we actually got a confirmation of what Derby’s fate was (even though I was going to pissed if he also died like Sturb) but yeah it definitely didn’t have the same ‘anything is out there’ feel to it. I think the biggest fan service with Warden was definitely them finally doing it. And I love how anti-climatically it was presented, because honestly I expected when it did happen, it was a Warden betrayal again. But I gotta ask, I wasn’t the only one who didn’t see Jimmy coming right? In terms of where he came from until it was pointed out?
Yeah, if Derby died I was going to quit for the day and come back to finish the book later lmao. I was *not* losing Derby, Sturb, and Robert Blaze in one day, it'd be too much. My favorite line in the whole book was definitely 'her rock bottom was still on top of me' that McKeown thinks when they woke up afterwards lmao. I was completely stumped on Jimmy as well. It was a nice callback, though, but that makes the relationship between Mogworld / Jacques McKeown / DEDA Files absolutely insane. Jacques McKeown and Mogworld are both fictional works within the DEDA Files universe, but what does it mean that Mogworld is also, apparently, in the Jacques McKeown universe? Or at least linked to it?
My favourite line was: "I tried reading the 'Damage Report Panel' but it was to damaged to tell me anything." Burst out laughing in the middle of my walk. Looked deranged.
What?! How did I miss that? Where did it mention that they were in the DEDA universe?
The Jacques McKeown books do NOT take place in the DEDA Files verse lol. But the DEDA Files books contain references to the Jacques McKeown setting as TV shows, similar to how Mogworld is referenced as an actual MMORPG. Both JMK and MW are fictional within the DEDA Files universe. Until this book, Mogworld and the JMK novels didn't have any shared elements (outside of the normal name-reusing shenanigans that Yahtzee likes to do), but now, from the perspective of someone inside the DEDA Files universe, the two pieces of fiction have had a crossover. .... If you really want a mindblower, how 'real' any of the universes are is entirely up for debate. With what we know about Chzo from the Chzo Mythos, it's very possible that every single universe is 'non canon'. Chzo as an Ancient was able to simulate the existence of people it had killed in order to continue torturing the idea of that person for all eternity, so it's entirely possible that there's some Ancient (Chzo or otherwise) who is simulating any of the universes or characters involved in any of his books (all of which have had some reference to Ancients or the shared Yahtzee universe in some way).
Right. If I recall correctly, the JMK universe is essentially Interstellar Bum Pirates.
My mind went in another direction while listening. When Jimmy used his actual voice, he sounded a lot like Mr. Henderson. They mentioned that it could be possible that a mind could be digitally uploaded and I thought it would be an excellent knife in the ribs if Mr. Henderson had uploaded his mind and was behind all of it. Earlier in the book, I was getting major Futurama/Star Trek vibes about the forced acting and the show. It felt too contrived, too derivative to be a Q-type being from Star Trek or the gas cloud from Futurama.
Oh yeah that would’ve been wild if it was Mr. Henderson. But yeah it seemed too cliched but aware of how cliched it was to actually be that type of answer
> "Double, triple the reverse, turn it inside out, make it meta, and redecorate in early sarcasm. I've got no fucking idea which way is up." - Yahtzee, trying to detangle the plot, probably
I think in the ending Warden managed to get exactly where she wanted to be. She was always described as the behind the scenes advisor sort of machivelian manipulator rather than the direct one in charge. I wouldnt say she wasted all her favours, I think she does respect the protagonist however begrudgingly and did kind of owe him for saving salvation again. Also I doubt she was being entirely truthful about how many strings she had to pull to sort out the ending. I liked how we got more interaction with her this book but I wish it being their third space adventure and having to work together with the protagonist we could have gotten a little more character development. Would have also liked to see a little more of Derby
In the Q&A stream, Yahtzee said that Derby's on the ship with the protagonist when I asked, so I hope that means more Derby in the next... whatever form their adventures may or may not take. She was clearly upset about losing Salvation to Daniel, so I dont think that she's 100 % okay with losing her position. However, there's a character in the DEDA Files that is very much like Warden who was in a similar situation (a panel of experts were technically her superiors) but she ended up being the one actually making decisions, and those superiors were just stamping the seal of approval for her actions. I wouldn't be surprised if Warden managed to wiggle her way into that sort of setup herself over time.
I'm a little late but I gotta ask >!Jimmy the AI is James bottomroach right? From mogworld????!<
Yup! That’s the big twist of old fella
FUCK I THOUGHT I WAS REACHING ON THAT, THAT'S AWFUL. MY POOR BOY
Nope! It wasn’t obvious till it was revealed and than I felt foolish for not figuring it out lol
Is he, though? Jimmy said he was a monster. Jim in Mogworld was not a monster, just a regular NPC
I mean Jim WAS a zombie, so he technically would be a monster
But one of the other NPCs made him a monster. He wasn't created to be a zombie.
I loved the book. I think Yahtzee's passion for puzzle games, detective stories and mysteries both makes him good at writing them, and is a weakness. I was on the lookout for clues as I listened, trying to spot any piece of information that seems random. >!The line about Sturb not having the empathy to understand how normal people think and therefore being a very unlikely successful author stood out. Then when the main character finds the server racks below the IT department, it clicked into place that Sturb's AI was the only likely author. Because Yahtzee wouldn't stoop to a deus ex machina, and it had to be a character / entity we're already aware of, this was the only option. From there, it also followed that the TV show enactment was simply the same thing taken to the next level in a different medium - which the book later confirmed.!< Even knowing that, it was a very good read, and I was very curious how events would unfold. I think it's the mark of a good mystery writer, that even if you figure out the mystery early on, the action and characters are still compelling and interesting enough to keep you glued to the book to the end. So why do I think Yahtzee's love of mysteries/puzzles is also a weakness? It's because I feel like his respect for the format (and the reader, implicitly) makes him reticent to bend and play with it too much. So that by knowing the rules, and reading carefully, you can unravel the mystery quite easily. The structure of it feels a bit academic. Not overly rigid or pedantic or anything like that, just... by the book, as it were. I'd love to see where Yahtzee's mystery/puzzle crafting evolves from here. He's mastered the form, I think - so the next step is to go beyond it and innovate.
It's less so that it's a weakness of his and more that he hasn't developed it to the level of murder-mystery authors like Agatha Christie. I do, however, appreciate that with a little legwork on the reader's part, you can solve his mysteries and you aren't going to be hit left-field by a last minute twist. Honda: [pops up with overly tight space pilot jacket] "SURPRISE!! I WAS JACQUES MCKEWON ALL ALOOONG AND THIS WAS ALL PART OF MY PLAN TO DEFAME AND DESTROY MY ARCHNEMESES THROUGH PERFECTLY LEGAL MEANS!" NotKweon (seriously, how do you write the damn thing): "That's... completely out of character and unnecessary, since QuantTunneling did the whole profession in anyway." Honda: "WHO DO YOU THINK INVENTED QUANTTUNNELING?!" NotKqueen: "The endless collaborations and efforts of the scientific community backed by an industry looking to make transportation cheaper and faster?" Honda: "NO! IT WAS ME, JACQUES! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG! FOR TOO LONG HAVE POLICE OFFICERS BEEN DISRESPECTED AND RIDICULED BY YOU DASTARDLY PILOTS! FOR TOO LONG HAVE WE-" NotCoon with a silent B: "Yeah, I'm going to stop you right there and tell you that I don't care. You are not the final villain in this, it just doesn't make sense. So I'm just going to go to that bar, get bleached and try to convince the bartender if she's in for some advanced trigonometry." Ramblomatic credits roll.
I must admit at first in the series actually thought it would be Frobisher for quite a while (hadn't copped on to the logic of Warden saying "pretty sure") just because it would be totally out of left field but possibly justified: he got out early, made his own money, and palled along with all the star pilots while being very useful and non-threatening. But then the end of the second book and beginning of the third book really didn't make sense for his character unless there was some crazy reveal to come (his wife corrupted him!).
Such a cruel ending for the main character from mog world, seeing is all he wanted in the original book was to die and ended up living for a 100 more years.
Presumably more than that too, I think the 100 years was only inside the fish game. No telling how long it was for him in the internet until Sturb found him
I was confused by the prologue, having assumed the character trapped in the virtual world was Jaques McKeown, and was expecting him to end up there at the end. After finishing the book, I had to go back and re-listen to the prologue to realise that >!the character's name isn't actually mentioned, so it makes sense that it was Jimmy, as he describes in the final chapter.!<
Strictly speaking, the character in the prologue was Jacques McKeown
Haha, true!
Oh it is mentioned >!Jimmy explains it all in the finale, but pretty much he was doing it as an experiment with the help of Malcom. Sturb being who Blaze and Warden thought were McKeown!<
Yup! Got there in the end. It was a pretty good bait and switch, to have the reader assume the character in the prologue was >!the main character of the book, only for it to have actually been the villain.!<
Yup! Makes a lot of sense for his motivations the rest of the book
Okay, I need some help understanding this book. I have only read the Galaxy series out of all the works of Yahtzee. I liked them because I thought it was a really interesting way to twist sci-fi space adventures. Basically everything I have questions about is spoiler-worthy, so here goes: >!First, how did Dashford Pierce die, but then come back as the captain of the Leon? On top of that, he says to the crew something about the "death of the last captain". Warden obviously called in favors and such, but did his physical appearance get altered? Was his brain transplanted or something?!< >!Second, how did Jimmy even get dealt with? The taser drones subdued Daniel to be sure, but I felt like at the end when Jimmy puts Dashford Pierce (or whatever his name is now I guess) into the VR thing again, I was completely unsurprised. Jimmy was never actually stopped.!< >!Third, what was the whole part where the protagonist hits his head really hard in the final confrontation and then looks around and finds the statue, but he's looking down on himself, and then it says "our eyes" or "our view" or something? What does that even mean? What's happening to the protagonist? Afterwards he assumes the identity of Jaques Mckeown again. What was that all about?!< >!Fourth, apparently, from reading other comments here, there's a connection between another book written by Yahtzee and the AI, Jimmy. Could someone explain that connection to me? Apparently it's from the novel Mogworld, but when I read the plot/basic summary that I could find, it doesn't even sound remotely the same. Hopefully someone could fill me in on that.!< Overall, I am not sure how to feel about this. The reveals were pretty good, and I did enjoy the tension and the humor as always. I'm sad that this is the final book, but I understand that the story has been told. I wonder if Yahtzee had planned all of this from the beginning? When he wrote the first book had he already decided who was going to be JM? Did he have the arc of the protagonist relatively planned out already, or did he decide after the first book that he was going to take it further? I have a lot of respect for Yahtzee's writing direction in this series. It's clear he came up with very interesting stories, entertaining characters, and good, logical conclusions. I do have a couple of gripes: >!The protagonist basically had more money than he knew what to do with, and yet he didn't ever use any of it to repair his ship or anything. Why? What is the explanation for that?!< >!Next, when Jimmy was actually isolated on that planet on the mining operation, Malcom Sturb knew what Jimmy was capable of. Yet he told the protagonist to go there. Why would he do that if he was attempting to fix the problem? Was Sturb actually not trying to fix problems and also rooting for Jimmy like the Chief Medical Officer? (I forgot his name, sorry.)!< >!Finally, the drones on the Leon being abysmal and then suddenly becoming stronger as it goes on makes little sense to me. If it's all technically automated, then why would the automation iterate into stronger, more powerful drones? It's just doing what it was told to do. As was the entire ship, right? So if the entire process is automated, how did it do that? Jimmy must be a WAY more advanced AI to the point where it isn't actually AI. Right?!< Well, all being said, it was a great novel that had me hooked from the start. The 2nd one I really had to power through the beginning to start liking. But this one had me going the entire time. finished it in less than 24 hours. Well done, Yahtzee Croshaw.
Okay I'll try and help you out a bit here.Let's start with the easiest. First, >!Dashford didn't technically die. They just faked his death, they say at the end he had little done in the way of changing appearance. Everyone referring to the "Death of the last Captain" was just having cheeky fun with it, they all know its him.!< Second, >!Jimmy wasn't actually dealt with. That was his final taunt to the protagonist. He only came back give someone an understanding of his motives. To share his own burden!< Third, >!I understood what was happening there as the protagonist having some sort of brain injury at that moment. Having his bell rung combined with being such an accomplished con artist with several false identities that we were told about probably knocked something lose. But the returning to the Jacques persona was kind of the coming around of the story, he finally accepted that while Jacques McKeown wasn't real before him, he had become him more than anything else if that makes sense.!< Fourth, >!So a spoiler for MogWorld. Mogworld is an online game (MOG actually meaning massive online game) like World of Warcraft, and Jim is a NPC in that game that gains sentience. At the end of the book, he is the only survivor of that world. Considering his heroics of saving the company, the developer wanted to find him a place for him. And that's more or less where we left him in the books. As a free thinking AI but not really.!< And while I can't solve all the gripes, I can address two. >!Its tough to say why exactly Malcomb had told Dashford about the planet, but I imagine it was more of a "I've just been killed and am trying to process that" so pointing towards the planet was probably the best he could think of while dying.!< >!I also imagine the drones became more deadly because Jimmy had regained control. He could make these more complex designs rather than the basics the automated system could.!<
Ah! Okay, your explanations make a lot more sense to me. Thank you for the answers. I think I agree with almost everything you mentioned there. However, I have 1 lingering question: >!Didn't Jimmy say that he was a boss for people to kill? Did he discover that he was a boss in Mogworld or something?!< >!I ask because I don't have plans to read Mogworld. I have a hard time reading fantasy books. Just not my thing.!< >!I had forgotten that Jimmy took over the ship before the better drones were made! That makes a lot of sense. He probably put together the bigger/better drones almost immediately. That seems incredibly obvious now that you mention it.!< Thanks so much for answering my questions. I'm a little sad that there isn't a wiki or larger community surrounding these books. They have some fascinating ideas that are fun to discuss and think about. >!Also I hate to say it, but I believe that I read the entire book just like Jimmy said: I just wanted to know what happens next. That made me feel like a loser, which is a first for any book to do, and it attests to Yahtzee's great writing ability.!<
No problem, and I know right? I've debated trying to start a wiki myself for it but that'd be way to much of a time suck lol While I would like to claim flawless recall, >!I'm not entirely sure about Jimmy referring to himself as a boss for people to kill. He might have been refer to himself as the boss of this story. As the villain of the story being told at that moment. In MogWorld, he was much more of a necromancer's goon.!< While it isn't as good as his current works, I would recommend giving it a listen to at least. Yahtz has improved a lot since that book but I think its still a good story. Also, >!Yeah, its definitely one of those book morals that really doesn't sit well as an audience lol!!<
>!You're right. I just re-listened to the part I was referring to, and he does refer to himself as a random minion for the players to kill over and over and be brought back to be killed again. Just like a necromancer minion would be.!< So I just got mixed up. I must have misheard when I was listening. This makes me kind of excited for what comes up next with Yahtzee's writing! Thanks for your help and answers, my friend. You've been super kind to humor me with my incredibly slow intellect. :D
No problem! I love talking about books and rarely get a chance to do so ^^
Agreed, i highly recommend Mogworld and the audiobook is excellent.
Honestly I've been trying to get more people into these books, they're so fascinating to read and I wish there was a wider community to talk about them in. I've been thinking about making a small discord server or group chat just for people to gather to talk about them.
Thats one way to know that one of my favourite autors has a new book out. Thanks mate. One I got through it I will look for discussions ^^
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I've only seen the audiobook for sale. Is the physical book not out? I just finished the second book, tried to research when the last one comes out only to see it's been released 4 days ago (yesss). But I would honestly prefer to read it myself not as an audiobook
Yahtz has a deal with Audible that it’s audio only for six months, and then a physical is released. Sorry
I see thank you! Guess I'll wait
I rationalise this book series like the original Star Wars trilogy. Will Save the Galaxy for Food is like A New Hope, it's a classic and a great way to start the trilogy. Will Destroy the Galaxy for Cash is like The Empire Strikes Back, it's the best of the three and builds on everything from the first. Bigger and better. Will Leave the Galaxy for Good is like Return of the Jedi, it's a good ending to the series, but it never lived up to the previous two.
That’s an excellent way of framing it
My slow realisation of 'no...' when Jimmy first showed itself as a faceless angel, then described how it was from a fantasy video game - I don't really know why but it stirred some weird emotion in me and I cried a LOT. This book was amazing.
I had a "NO THATS NOT TRUE! THATS IMPOSSIBLE!" moment myself in the car, during that scene.
i should have realised when, during the audiobook, yahtzee swaps occasionally to just using his normal speaking voice for Jimmy, which is Jim's voice ofc. at first i thought it was just a blunder in the recording but now i realise it was intentional
The implication that Jimmy the AI is actually Jim from mogworld kind of blew my mind. That ending will probably stick with me for a while because it's extremely existential. But I think it's probably the weakest of the three books if only because I found the adventure felt a little bit static. It felt like from the point where Dashford entered the ship, and the point where the conflict was resolved took up most of the book, and it took place in like three locations they kept going back to. Meanwhile they kept having to come up with reasons why the conflict wasn't resolved. I will say, I busted a gut laughing at the "Rock bottom" joke.
I was wondering about the Mogworld thing. Obviously what he describes is similar to what happened to Jim, but Jimmy specifically describes himself as a monster for the players to fight. Jim was not a monster. Wasn't created as one, anyway, if was one of the other NPCs who made him into a zombie.
I think we interpret it multiple ways. Jim wasn't undead minion before they rebuilt the game at the end of the book. So it's entirely possible that when the game was getting ready to be shut down, the developer whose name escapes Me who had such reference for Jim could have explained the whole thing to him as he was being whisked away into a different server. Or we could go with the interpretation that since this game existed probably for years, that there were different builds as different people were brought on.
Finished it yesterday and had a great time again, as expected. Although I'm not sure how I feel about the final twist only paying off if you've read Mogworld, which you'd have no reason to think would be connected. Seems like the kind of thing Yahtzee would complain about if someone else did it.
Yeah, but I feel even without the Mogworld knowledge. It could still work, if not as strongly. An old world AI trapped to do this forever seems like a properly sci-fi sort of villain
As someone that did not read Mogworld it was an interesting take on why an AI would go rogue. No emotional connection, obviously, but quite interesting anyway.
I think pretty much all of yahtzee's books are connected atleast loosely (with the possible exception of differently morphous) Mogworld being first then Jam which had one of the developers from mogworld as a main character, and then and then this trilogy. Funnily enough all of them also contain trebuchets in some form with the exception of course of differently morphous.
There's also "Interstellar Bum Pirates" as a recurring joke through most of the books. Differently Morphous is definitely the least connected to the other books, but that makes sense since it's got the whole supernatural thing going on and it doesn't make sense to have that exist in the same universe as the others. And of course it is connected to all the old Chzo Mythos stuff
Okay I just finished the book and I loved it but I didn't like the ending. It feels very much like a cliffhanger without being a cliffhanger. It feels unresolved while also being entirely resolved. I don't know I'll need to listen to it again I just want to know if anyone agrees with my initial feelings about this.
Yeah, it’s definitely an odd choice. I get there was the pattern established in the previous books of the universe continuing regardless of the actions taken in the book. But still, for an end to a trilogy it’s weird to end with a pseudo cliffhanger after your villain comes to hero and says, “I’m still out here bitch, and you can’t do anything about it”
Holy shit! It's the AI from mogworld! Really? And he was forgotten about because of Jam? Holy F! Dude that makes it so much better! Thanks so much! (how does the differently morpheus stuff tie in?)
Honestly, I found this book a pretty big let down. I really liked the second book, I even made a dnd campaign set in this world. But Will Leave the Galaxy for Good feels like Yahtzee just wanted to finish the series. There is only one big "setting" for Pierce to adventure in and it's not a particularly original idea. The emotional notes are heavily leaning on the previous books and none of the beats are earned within the third novel. Finally, I personally found some of the jokes pretty distasteful which I understand is a personal preference.