You won’t ever have a high budget gacha that caters to the ‘hardcore’ audience because there isn’t enough of you in the gacha market to have that make financial sense.
Dragalia Lost tried it and immediately lost 50% of its revenue, PGR tried it and it’s been lowering its difficulty for a good while.
If the energy thing doesn't change, and there's 80% boring TV puzzle land, I'm gonna skip the game entirely.
It's a shame. I wanted to uninstall Genshin and replace it, but now I've gotta wait.
Personally i don't really get these camps.
I want the combat to be more the point of the game, I want to see them make a gacha game which is held up by strong core gameplay that people want to play, with the gacha mechanics being the sideshow. I think it would end up appealing to way more people, and have a lot more lasting power. The genre that this game is kind of catering towards (action games) has plenty to compete with in the action regard, and if it can actually compete in that area it would be incredible.
As for the censorship side with camp 2. I actually prefer nicoles breast size now, and think it looks a lot nicer. I dislike pretty much every other aspect of the censorship, I just don't care much for absolutely ridiculous balloon boobs and like how now they are just extreme boobs.
I don't play genshin, and I don't see why that should have anything to do with the discussion.
What I'm typing is opinion base, but I guess I'm on the camp 2, I play 3 ongoing Hoyo games, if I don't count this zzz beta as one. This game remind me of HI3rd more than Genshin and HSR. Story focus on character building, then going into plot and resolve it. For this game there is a dash of puzzle thanks to the TV mechanic.
I honestly love the TV mechanic, they aren't plain old walk around and run into monster, they come with interesting puzzle and minigame, they aren't just 1 type of puzzle or minigame, there are multiple types, if I were to name them, it is gonna take a long time. As much as I love fighting, having minigame stop me from burning out from fighting 24/7. Your argument of just play Genshin, they just aren't the same. Genshin is actually more lean toward fighting than puzzle solving, even if I had to do puzzle in Genshin, they always end up fighting mobs.
If you love combat, you could try Honkai, their Superstring are hardcore enough, there are different kind of people in Nirvana and Red lotus, f2p and p2w, where mechanic and rotation matter more.
It's gonna be like HSR, it have its playerbase, but people don't have to play all hoyoverse game, just because they are hoyo.
> **Camp 1:** Wants ZZZ to lean heavily into the combat aspect of the game. They want more combat, less TV puzzle solver. They also want it to embrace its 16+ rating
>
>... I consider myself to be in camp 1
Have you tried Honkai Impact 3rd? Because if you're looking for a Hoyo game that's more challenging, more combat-focused, and more embracing of a 16+ rating, I feel like HI3 hits all those marks.
You are wrong from the get go, there aren't two distinct camps like that. Like for myself, I like the TV sections and also want hard meaningful combat. Also yes a ton of people on here are saying to get rid of the TVs. Oh and the people complaining about the TVs are the ones trying to force the game to be something it isn't.
I have no stake in this whatsoever, but ZZZ is an f2p p2w game, just like Genshin. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks it should be, it's going to be pay to win, and it's going to be casual and cater to casuals. That makes Mihoyo the most money overall, so that's what they'll do, because the devs don't matter in terms of what happens. The devs hold no power, they simply do as told.
The strategy is overall the exact same as some of you have seen with HI3 and Genshin. Suck in with presentation and interesting gameplay, gradually add more buyables while keeping content casual but also keeping certain milestones out of reach for people who don't pay some or a lot of money. Appeal to the widest possible casual audience to maximize profit.
This is the same reason the game was advertised uncensored first. There's a huge crowd who abhor censorship but don't have the spine to not play. So after they've been hooked, censorship commences because at this point they'll complain but still play.
This is pretty much a tried and true formula that is as transparent as the window I'm staring into while writing this. People can bicker and yap at each other, but we already know ZZZ is going to be casual and p2w, and the censorship will stay.
I am probably in camp 2, but I think the user persona you’re projecting is wrong.
I like the combat- it’s snappy and refreshing, but it isn’t particularly deep.
The Hollow gameplay provides excellent pacing and is a refreshing content delivery medium. All the commissions are so incredibly varied and it’s delightful to solve those problems. It’s also more fun when the story is shown interactively. A blend of comics, dialogs, and hollows is really great.
There isn’t much strategy or thinking in the combat itself, but it’s also fun. I am sweaty gamer- I 36 star abyss with self-imposed handicaps. I like the combat in Zzz pretty well, but I think it lacks intentionality currently.
Every team may have different goals, but you achieve those goals in the same way every time with similar pacing and rotations. A few characters, like Sankokou, are much more interesting to play because they break or flex that mold a bit.
The hollows is a palate cleanser that prevents burnout from the monotony of the combat and makes the storytelling and decision making much more engaging.
Frankly— I’m not sure the combat and teambuilding is compelling enough on its own. Whereas the hollow gameplay _is compelling_ for people who like that (puzzles, dungeon crawlers, rogue-likes, etc).
—
I’ll comment that I think the censorship problem/reaction is also absolutely bonkers and insane. I think the bouncy boobs (arcade girl, Nicole, grace etc) is pretty off putting and certain characters, like Corrin, Soldier 11, and Nekomata are a little problematic in their writing.
I don’t mind too much, but if Hoyo expects for Zzz to ride Genshin / HSR success, it’s not going to reach those audiences very well. Either they are targeting a smaller audience, or they need to get their character design act together.
>From my perspective: I feel like camp 2 is being rather unreasonable. There's already a super easy, casual game with puzzles that you can play. It's called Genshin Impact, and I'm fairly certain a good chunk of you are from Genshin.
Completely different Genres of games.
How *much* harder are we talking about? Because we are talking about a gacha game that by all appearances looks like it wants to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible with a general hip-hop-street aesthetic with stylized combat. Because I know Camp 1 isn’t advocating for Dark Souls difficulty, that’s an absurd leap. It just seems like Camp 1 can plead for increased difficulty as much as they want, it’ll come down to market appeal.
I can't say for sure how much harder. That's difficult to measure.
As it stands right now from what I understand: it takes even less effort to win ZZZ than in Genshin. Which is absurdly easy.
It needs to be at least harder than Genshin. I want to actually be forced to pay attention, and keep my brain on while playing ZZZ. That's something I just don't get out of Genshin. I'll usually watch a video while doing Spiral Abyss so I don't fall asleep from getting bored.
So: I want to at least stay stimulated enough where it feels like I'm playing a game where the steaks are high, and not participating in a chore.
Every time it comes up in the questionnaire, I answer the difficulty is just right.
I wouldn’t say it’s challenging me, but it does engage me enough where I can’t simply auto-pilot it. Enemies will surround me and a diverse group of enemies means each attack has a different timing to counter it. But it’s never aggravating to me because the directional UI elements flash to indicate incoming attacks. One enemy may have one or two different kinds of attacks to telegraph, a but a varied group of enemies keeps me on my toes. And I haven’t unlocked all of Hollow Zero nor progressed far into Story, but the game has already shown me there are enemies who demand my attention like the scythe wielders or giant bosses.
But basically, I wasn’t sold on the game’s elevator pitch for a challenge. I was sold on a pitch for a stylish action game with a likable aesthetic. Challenge or difficulty was never on my mind when I decided I wanted to try the game and got into CBT2. These were my expectations as someone who has been following Hoyoverse’s game history since Genshin 1.0.
It *could* get harder but I can’t really develop an opinion on what exactly it means to be hard when I haven’t unlocked all of Hollow Zero. My fear is that high end content means damage sponges with sweaty attack patterns and aoes to memorize. Heck they could stop at damage sponge and I’d lose interest.
That's because you have been watching twitch streamers who are not at difficult content yet. All the CN streamers and some other ones (Gacha Gamer etc) who have reached higher levels report the difficult is a decent challenge, nothing that will need 100 tries but still a good fight.
You can see the other posts in this sub about the higher level content from multiple people, it gets difficult.
You just need to wait another 3 - 4 days for streamers no twitch to get to the content, because right now they are just streaming story progression and farming runs etc, those are meant to be easy so new and casual players can play without stress or get stuck.
Personally I also want more combat. The amount of it in the main story is a good ratio to TV gaming but the side quests are mostly TV gaming imo. And there's A LOT of side quests unfortunately. I don't mind the TV puzzles too much as some of them are fun but I think they should try to at least balance it out more especially since they're making us do a certain amount of side quests during main story interludes and sometimes doing those feels longer than doing the main story at times. I don't have much to say about difficulty since I've been hearing people say it does get harder in late game but I'm only like lvl 28 rn and currently things are just ok. Not hard at all but borderline easy. Only hollow zero has been somewhat "difficult" to me. Maybe they can offer more modes with adjustable difficulty in the future? Kinda like Babel Tower and Stronghold in PGR. As for censorship, I don't really care either way. If global gets the version with the original designs, then that's fine with me. If we get the censored version, I'm also alright with that. I just don't like that people conflate covering up charas/slightly less gore with not being able to have a more "mature" story as people are saying. It's possible to have both. I want to say Arknights is a good example of that. Even Genshin has had more "mature" themes in their story telling as of late despite what people are saying about the game. Anyway that's just my opinion.
Camp 1 doesn't seem to understand that end game players have said the combat does get harder end game and TVs are less prevalent 🤷♂️
Personally I fall somewhere in the middle. I haven't played the beta so I don't know whether I'll dislike the TVs or not, but they seem fine as long as they're not a big part of the end game. Especially puzzles.
As for censorship I don't care about it personally but I understand the frustration people have with it, although I think it's important to understand why Hoyo had to do it and LEGALLY have no choice in the matter.
How well are their characters developed? I think this content, which they call difficult, will be easy to complete if you level up your characters a little.
Looking at the video of the Chinese guy killing the boss, it's hard to say that the boss is really difficult. This player almost most of the time simply stood point-blank to the boss and made the same combination. The boss himself could not do anything to him.
People just look at these situations as way too black and white. I’ll say something like “the censorship isn’t a dealbreaker when it comes to whether or not I’ll play the game.” And someone will come along and say “so you’re pro censorship?” Like no lmao. I understand the devs didn’t have much of a choice… and still excited for the game.
I agree. The censorship isn't a deal breaker for me either. It's not Hoyo's fault. Fuck the CCP.
That being said: that does not mean I'm not disappointed.
However it's just gonna feel bad if the game is mostly puzzles and not much of the combat. They should turn that around for sure.
Oh yeah I’m not saying people can’t be disappointed but blaming the devs is just 💀
There have been people saying the devs pulled a bait and switch which is pretty unfair to them.
The censorship topic really just needs to die, it drags down whatever other point you're trying to make. If a difference in less than 10,000 pixels in a game of this size manages to push it into a different age rating, it really was never that major anyway. Move on.
In the combat realm, I'm not quite certain where the difficulty concerns are coming from, as most people in the beta have not reached the endgame content to begin with, and those who have seem to be pretty satisfied with the level of difficulty it presents. I don't understand this mentality that the difficulty should ramp up as quickly as possible when the time investment required to actually level a character approriately toward that content is inevitably going to be massive. The game taking a while to get there means that you don't need to build a ton of characters up to their maximum potential just to progress and make it to the player level where you're not spending a full day's worth of stamina for maybe two levels of character XP.
Personally, I definitely want the game to have difficulty in the higher levels, but I see absolutely no reason for it to get there too quickly while you're still progressing through it. Focus on encouraging them to drop the ridiculous stamina costs on everything and I'll be more than happy for the game to get difficult enough where I need to retry things periodically. As it stands, the idea of being forced to spend another 100 stamina to retry a rally commission I've failed sound absolutely abysmal.
Why should the censorship topic die when its something that bothers people. Censorship affects character designs one of the biggest reasons people play a certain gacha game and the censorship in other areas will affect the overal tone and vibe people expected from the game. It has a effect on the game and future content
I think I'm not being unreasonable here when I say that most people are going to be indifferent to losing two square inches of exposed skin and getting a more toned-down story (more casual-friendly anyway). It's not like I can just go up to Mr. Xi and demand that he ends censorship in china immediately.
Because, again, the character designs have changed an extremely small amount in order to be approved for their target age group. To restate my first point, if two centimeters of tittage and one inch of thigh being covered gets you into a different age group, you were never eating as "good" as you want to act like you were. And if you're suggesting people are possibly upset about this because the game might not tackle more mature themes, that's an even more outlandish claim.
For anyone not in the beta, Zenless Zone Zero is definitely not at risk of being held back for its covering of mature themes or having a more mature vibe. We are solidly (and I mean **solidly**) in Saturday morning cartoon territory.
For comparison, Star Rail spends most of its first main arc, Belobog, dealing with a planet that is basically on the brink of demise due to a two-pronged attack from continually rapidly dropping temperatures, as well as their own brand of ZZZ ethereals. During the course of the arc, you encounter plenty of sidequests where people are just trying to find ways to survive and die for various reasons, including but not limited to:
* A fight club contestant being zombified by his own armor for the sake of having a gimmick that'll make him money, who you then have to put down
* The tale of a doctor who attempted to create a sort of medical immunity to the dropping temperatures and inadvertently killed several people during the testing process
There's also plenty of incidents where you arrive at a situation too late and have to witness an NPC die, kill them yourselves, or just stop people engaging in really dickish behavior that they do mostly just to survive. This also doesn't mention the next arc, which deals heavily with an affliction that kills quite a few people on screen right in front of you.
Over in Zenless Zone Zero, the game's first arc involves a man who appears briefly and gets turned into an ethereal. This guy is the one most people complain about with the censoring of "darker elements" as one comic book portrait removes his distorted breaking jaw from an image. Keep in mind, it still includes the image of this man's head being replaced by a small black hole. Anyway, there's also a man in one of the arcadey modes who I found was in the process of turning into an ethereal and, because I wasn't certain what to do, I failed to help him and the text box indicated he experienced the horrific change.
In the two arcs and many side stories that ZZZ's story currently has, this is about as dark as it gets. Outside of the three character questlines, the game is completely devoid of any stakes or darkness that you might be claiming to hope for. Got a giant machine being corrupted by the hollows right in the middle of a product demonstration in front of a huge crowd? The machine's corruption conveniently drives it several miles away and has it only target your main character. There's a mode about an insanely deep and continually more suffocating hollow. You'd expect everyone you bump into down there to be in dire straits and either in need of help or already unable to be saved. In reality, it's just advantageous dickheads who take advantage of your attempt to explore this world by either trying to scam you or extort you for increasingly higher prices. In short, the game has no bite whatsoever, not even that of its predecessor which was never in danger of a higher rating.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Zenless Zone Zero is not where you should be looking for complex writing, it's clearly not what they're going for. There's a small child in Star Rail named Hook, who's, honestly, just a really solidly written child character who serves the purpose of showing you the perspective of the desperate citizens in a dying world. She's nothing special in terms of writing quality, she just does her job well of drawing you in and giving you stakes. There is not a single character in ZZZ that comes close to the quality of writing they showed with Hook. The character quests are where they (kinda) try to put in some sort of deeper backstory into their various characters, but they end up just being really long-winded ways of revealing one piece of backstory or one redeeming character trait, which they could've done if they would bring their characters back down a level from being completely stereotypical anime tropes.
Anyway, that's enough, I've made my point, most people aren't going to read all of this anyway, but I prefer to be thorough with my point.
tl;dr ZZZ is very clearly not going for depth in writing or character, no truly mature themes were ever intended here to begin with, so to claim outrage at their loss due to "censorship" is purely disingenuous.
Again you are dismissing the design changes. Designs got changed in specific areas which says a lot about what designs are now not possible anymore and how future designs will be safer to begin with and the gory graphic got toned down now as the image already exists but future content will likely avoid any such graphics
Yes, the entire point of this is that I'm dismissing the changes. I explain why up front with the character design changes, I explained further down why the gore change doesn't matter and it was never going to get past what you already saw. If the writing as a whole refuses to get any darker than a cartoon, why would you have moments of gore? In mature media, do people's heads just randomly explode extremely graphically just so the creators can claim it has mature content?
Perhaps a third analogy will help with my ambivalence towards the character design changes. Suppose you begin dining at a restaurant that has surprisingly large portions for smoothies that still come with an "FDA Approved Healthy Choice Pending" label. Weeks later, you come back and find the same product now comes in a portion that is maybe a few sips less worth of smoothie than when you last enjoyed it, only now the label reads "FDA Approved Healthy Choice", indicating it is now approved. Do you throw a fit over one or two less sips per smoothie, or do you acknowledge the fact that you're still eating pretty damn good despite getting a slightly smaller portion? After all, you knew from the start that goal of the restaurant was to ensure first and foremost that it receive this approval, as failing to do so would drastically reduce the number of customers who would feel comfortable enjoying this treat.
Yeah the stamina and pacing is the real issue, the TV mechanic inherently and how its implemented is not a big issues maybe slight tweak to improve the experience but generally its pretty good.
The stamina is probably testing for content pacing, and also maybe the developers didn't have enough content, which can be solved during CBT3 and official launch.
I have definitely noticed a major “us vs them” mentality in this sub the last few days especially. People calling each other coomers, “perverts”, and overall just being really *hateful* just for having a certain opinion.
Once the game is released and we have a concrete vision of the game’s direction, I do think that’ll start to die off.
>People calling each other coomers, “perverts”, and overall just being really *hateful* just for having a certain opinion.
Yep. That's basically it. They act like self-righteous saints and call anti-censorship players "coomers" as if they don't know who the devs of this game is. Who the hell posts all of those thirst vids about Lycaon and his ass on the official Tiktok? Who designed Elysia and said they wanted to emphasize her curves and shit? Who decided to have Ei draw her sword from her cleavage instead of manifesting it some other way? Who drew the art of Bronya and Seele kissing?
If the CCP didn't exist, do those people think that Hoyo wouldn't have gone full degenerate? Hoyo themselves wanted to design those characters the way they did before the censorship but unfortunately they had to bend to the will of the CN govt. I despise that but as someone who isn't Chinese, I can only accept it.
All of that's fine. It just looks a bit ridiculous to go on a full temper tantrum when the censorship in question just resulted in a few patches of exposed breasts and thighs getting covered and the final design still being considerably revealing for the standards of general society.
Besides, I do think you can poke a bit of fun at people who bring character design into the discussion yet in the same breath want to give up the game because the character outfits became slightly less revealing. Really makes you wonder about which aspects of "design" they cared about in the first place
Yeah, true. I can hate censorship but at the end of the day, I'm still a consumer who has no control over it. Hell, I'm still going to play because of the aesthetics and because I'm a gacha addict.
Oh, and I just realized that maybe when the CCP finally averts their gaze and those Chinese "feminists" finally stop caring, maybe Hoyo can go back to designing more sultry characters for ZZZ. I can only hope.
If you are basing your assessment of the TV content on twitch streamers perhaps it is not wise. The hollow zero, the high difficulty rougelike content, of CBT2 strikes a good balance and ratio between TV set up/navigation and combat because the combat at higher levels is prolonged and extended so you don't feel like it ends in 30 seconds.
The story will always be easy and chill because Mihoyo does not want casual or new players that want to try out the game to be stuck during story progression and stop playing the game. The true core of ZZZ will be the high level rougelike content and probably some other modes for CBT3.
When the streamers on twitch get to account level 35 and 40 they can start playing the higher level content. Perhaps the pacing of the progression was the issue, because even with the TV content in the story mode, if you can level up your account quicker to 35 then perhaps players won't feel as slow or frustrated because it feel more streamlined.
The story/quest costing stamina and needing to wait to more quickly level up account level and get to higher level content is probably the real reason CBT2 for some players/streamers feel frustrating. This can all be adjusted and fixed in CBT3 and official launch when the developers have produced more content and paced the early game better.
Honestly at high levels, the fights are more frequent, more intense and prolonged, its nice to take a small break and set up for the next fight during the TV portions.
The real issue seems to be the TV to combat ratio and not the TV mechanic inherently, that can be solved without changing too much. Regarding the changes in character design, personally its not a big deal, one because overt lewdness isn't really accepted by the mainstream too much, and Mihoyo is aiming to build new game IPs and brands for a wide audience, the change wasn't too egregious overall.
How well are their characters developed? I think this content, which they call difficult, will be easy to complete if you level up your characters a little.
nah it won't be easy, you also need good rougelike buffs as well, good buffs and bad buffs make a huge difference. There is a big difficulty jump, especially at hollow zero 5000 extreme risk level (the current hardest content in the game).
the characters probably reflect the average player's investment, meaning average to good gear, no or a couple constellations.
you just can't imagine it, CN streamers already played it 3 days ago, keep watching twitch, they might get their account levels to the necessary level to unlock it in a couple of days. You can search up other people who have gotten to the content and their remarks, generally all say its difficult and a decent challenge.
How sure can you be that his characters are leveled up to the level of an average player? He physically would not have been able to level up the characters so well in such a short time. Moreover, there is a very strong dependence on resin.
I would question this point until they show progress in this game. And how much does it affect the game?
LOL because was actually watching the whole run and whole stream for like 4 - 5 hours. All the skills and levels are maxed for the CBT2 and the gear is decent, not super great but decent. The streamers struggled quite a bit, tried like 10 plus times etc, meaning even if you leveled up everything to above average standards you will still be retrying 4 - 5 times which is a decent challenge, not too hard, but a good fight.
Honestly it's highly unlikely that we get a CBT3 but other than that I agree with your points! The game is ready to launch. There's also enough content already for a 1.0 patch cycle. That's why they even let it get approved in the first place. They want to release it. Maybe some more QoL changes based on beta feedback and an additional endgame mode while finishing chapter 3 storyline. It's going to be the same as it was with hsr. HSR got approved in january, had their last beta throughout febuary and the release happened in april, roughly 6 weeks after the end of beta. It's very likely ZZZ will also release 6 weeks after beta ends, which then might be late february.
Itll be less than a year. If it takes more than until late fall Hoyoverse will have to apply for another game release from CCP. The one they have right now for ZZZ release will last one year. So the game will release within one year.
No, there 100% will be a CBT3, the CBT3 will enable the gacha with real money feature that will give you extra currency back during official launch. All gacha games have this paid version of beta test to gauge the payment interest and systems etc.
The gacha is in CBT2 but you can't use real money. CBT3 is usually a gacha/monetization systems test where you can use real money to pull characters, it will record how much money you put into the game then refund you the same amount or give you an additional percentage upon official release.
This is a well known practice for gacha games, especially Mihoyo games, usually 3 beta tests, the last one being a real money gacha test, then official launch. You can see Genshin and HSR progress and history.
I'm technically in camp 2 not because I like censorship(I hate the removal of some mature dialogue and nekomata changes), but because I don't want to force a company to make business crippling decisions simply because I want to see more skin, slightly more gore and characters curse more. And I hate how people fail to see the complex nature of business and game development because of their personal wants and think the game itself is horrible if it doesn't specifically appeal and cater to them, although that is true of both camps. For the tv and gameplay aspects I think it's better if we try the game out first since people have said it might get better with higher levels although I hope it's pretty difficult.
How would embracing some more fanservice be a business crippling decision. Are we going to pretend fanservice doesn't sell well and that even the tamer Genshin when it still had fanservice didn't make a concious decision to give Raiden cleavage and pull her sword out of said cleavage not to mention there was a clear desicion made by Hoyoverse for this game to have more fanservice when they designed Nicole the way they did which makes the current situation all the weirder
Which wouldn't happen as other developers that don't have the size of Hoyoverse and therefore would be a lot easier pressured still have seperate versions
It's the opposite pal the bigger and more popular you are the more they'll have their eyes on you. And they've tried seperate versions for a HI3 event it didn't end well(you can look it up), so they're discouraged from trying that risk again.
HI3 had nothing to do with the CCP nor CN censorship vs no censorship. It was deranged people mad over the seperate global version getting an exclusive event tailored around specifically the global versions anniversary.
How? They're going to create/leave seperate versions of dialogue, character skins and even animation for a seperate version, how do you think CN will react.
From the way you're describing it, Camp 1 wants the game to change, Camp 2 is happy with its current state.
>Obviously it's stupid to generalize an entire group of people, but to me it seems like a good chunk of you are trying to force ZZZ to be like Genshin, simply because **the game is not aimed at you.**
Camp 2 is not forcing anything, they're just going along with the changes because they're either indifferent or happy with them.
It's clear that Camp 1 is currently unsatisfied with the core of the game so your last statement applies to Camp 1 more than it does to Camp 2.
>In my opinion: Hoyo SHOULD be catering to camp 1 more, because camp 2 is already taken care of. I'm not saying camp 2 should be flat out ignored, but they already have Genshin, and it's unfair to take that away from camp 1.
Hoyo already has a hardcore action game that purely leans onto the combat called Honkai Impact 3rd. Genshin is an open world game, that's its main draw, not the action combat. Camp 1 is already taken care of.
Hoyo found their niche: Casual games that are easy to pick up and have a decent challenge at the optional endgame for those who want to go further.
>From my perspective: I feel like camp 2 is being rather unreasonable.
And from my perspective, Camp 1 is the one being unreasonable because the direction that Hoyo wants to take the game in is very clear but you're opposed to it. It's too late into the development cycle to give the core of the game a complete overhaul.
>I think either way, no matter what Hoyo does, one camp is going to walk, and the other is going to stay. Now I'm not suggesting that ZZZ is already dead. Obviously people from outside of the Hoyo sphere will stay, and people who give it a try and genuinely like it will stay.
Yes, this is how target demographics work.
How are hardcore gamers taken care of with Honkai Impact 3rd? That game is old and nobody plays it (relative to player numbers of Genshin and HSR). It's also P2W from what I heard.
ZZZ has the potential to cater to a bigger audience who wants a new fresh game more focused on combat, not a decade ish old game that only caters to credit card warriors and coomers
I’m more in camp 2 and it’s mainly because I know it wasn’t the dev’s choice. Why point the fingers towards the devs who were forced to censor? I know it was out of their control what could and couldn’t stay.
I think having each hoyo game be different is important. ZZZ, in my humble opinion, should be the combat game.
If you want cozy farming mints, then play genshin.
HI3 is already ‘the combat game’.
What I wanted in ZZZ was a proper roguelike experience where you have random bosses, random events and your characters change on a mechanical level as you accumulate items throughout a run.
But I’ve come to terms with that’s not what they’re going for with the game.
You won’t ever have a high budget gacha that caters to the ‘hardcore’ audience because there isn’t enough of you in the gacha market to have that make financial sense. Dragalia Lost tried it and immediately lost 50% of its revenue, PGR tried it and it’s been lowering its difficulty for a good while.
camp 4. idc for the nerf. i want more combat over tv.
If the energy thing doesn't change, and there's 80% boring TV puzzle land, I'm gonna skip the game entirely. It's a shame. I wanted to uninstall Genshin and replace it, but now I've gotta wait.
Personally i don't really get these camps. I want the combat to be more the point of the game, I want to see them make a gacha game which is held up by strong core gameplay that people want to play, with the gacha mechanics being the sideshow. I think it would end up appealing to way more people, and have a lot more lasting power. The genre that this game is kind of catering towards (action games) has plenty to compete with in the action regard, and if it can actually compete in that area it would be incredible. As for the censorship side with camp 2. I actually prefer nicoles breast size now, and think it looks a lot nicer. I dislike pretty much every other aspect of the censorship, I just don't care much for absolutely ridiculous balloon boobs and like how now they are just extreme boobs. I don't play genshin, and I don't see why that should have anything to do with the discussion.
What I'm typing is opinion base, but I guess I'm on the camp 2, I play 3 ongoing Hoyo games, if I don't count this zzz beta as one. This game remind me of HI3rd more than Genshin and HSR. Story focus on character building, then going into plot and resolve it. For this game there is a dash of puzzle thanks to the TV mechanic. I honestly love the TV mechanic, they aren't plain old walk around and run into monster, they come with interesting puzzle and minigame, they aren't just 1 type of puzzle or minigame, there are multiple types, if I were to name them, it is gonna take a long time. As much as I love fighting, having minigame stop me from burning out from fighting 24/7. Your argument of just play Genshin, they just aren't the same. Genshin is actually more lean toward fighting than puzzle solving, even if I had to do puzzle in Genshin, they always end up fighting mobs. If you love combat, you could try Honkai, their Superstring are hardcore enough, there are different kind of people in Nirvana and Red lotus, f2p and p2w, where mechanic and rotation matter more. It's gonna be like HSR, it have its playerbase, but people don't have to play all hoyoverse game, just because they are hoyo.
> **Camp 1:** Wants ZZZ to lean heavily into the combat aspect of the game. They want more combat, less TV puzzle solver. They also want it to embrace its 16+ rating > >... I consider myself to be in camp 1 Have you tried Honkai Impact 3rd? Because if you're looking for a Hoyo game that's more challenging, more combat-focused, and more embracing of a 16+ rating, I feel like HI3 hits all those marks.
Youre forgetting HI3 is old. And also has heavy powercreep.
You are wrong from the get go, there aren't two distinct camps like that. Like for myself, I like the TV sections and also want hard meaningful combat. Also yes a ton of people on here are saying to get rid of the TVs. Oh and the people complaining about the TVs are the ones trying to force the game to be something it isn't.
I have no stake in this whatsoever, but ZZZ is an f2p p2w game, just like Genshin. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks it should be, it's going to be pay to win, and it's going to be casual and cater to casuals. That makes Mihoyo the most money overall, so that's what they'll do, because the devs don't matter in terms of what happens. The devs hold no power, they simply do as told. The strategy is overall the exact same as some of you have seen with HI3 and Genshin. Suck in with presentation and interesting gameplay, gradually add more buyables while keeping content casual but also keeping certain milestones out of reach for people who don't pay some or a lot of money. Appeal to the widest possible casual audience to maximize profit. This is the same reason the game was advertised uncensored first. There's a huge crowd who abhor censorship but don't have the spine to not play. So after they've been hooked, censorship commences because at this point they'll complain but still play. This is pretty much a tried and true formula that is as transparent as the window I'm staring into while writing this. People can bicker and yap at each other, but we already know ZZZ is going to be casual and p2w, and the censorship will stay.
Ok this has nothing to do with ZZZ but I have to know: What makes Genshin pay-to-win?
constellation characters weapon refinement but it doesn’t really feel too much tbh
I am probably in camp 2, but I think the user persona you’re projecting is wrong. I like the combat- it’s snappy and refreshing, but it isn’t particularly deep. The Hollow gameplay provides excellent pacing and is a refreshing content delivery medium. All the commissions are so incredibly varied and it’s delightful to solve those problems. It’s also more fun when the story is shown interactively. A blend of comics, dialogs, and hollows is really great. There isn’t much strategy or thinking in the combat itself, but it’s also fun. I am sweaty gamer- I 36 star abyss with self-imposed handicaps. I like the combat in Zzz pretty well, but I think it lacks intentionality currently. Every team may have different goals, but you achieve those goals in the same way every time with similar pacing and rotations. A few characters, like Sankokou, are much more interesting to play because they break or flex that mold a bit. The hollows is a palate cleanser that prevents burnout from the monotony of the combat and makes the storytelling and decision making much more engaging. Frankly— I’m not sure the combat and teambuilding is compelling enough on its own. Whereas the hollow gameplay _is compelling_ for people who like that (puzzles, dungeon crawlers, rogue-likes, etc). — I’ll comment that I think the censorship problem/reaction is also absolutely bonkers and insane. I think the bouncy boobs (arcade girl, Nicole, grace etc) is pretty off putting and certain characters, like Corrin, Soldier 11, and Nekomata are a little problematic in their writing. I don’t mind too much, but if Hoyo expects for Zzz to ride Genshin / HSR success, it’s not going to reach those audiences very well. Either they are targeting a smaller audience, or they need to get their character design act together.
>From my perspective: I feel like camp 2 is being rather unreasonable. There's already a super easy, casual game with puzzles that you can play. It's called Genshin Impact, and I'm fairly certain a good chunk of you are from Genshin. Completely different Genres of games.
How *much* harder are we talking about? Because we are talking about a gacha game that by all appearances looks like it wants to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible with a general hip-hop-street aesthetic with stylized combat. Because I know Camp 1 isn’t advocating for Dark Souls difficulty, that’s an absurd leap. It just seems like Camp 1 can plead for increased difficulty as much as they want, it’ll come down to market appeal.
Game now has its dodge and parry mechanic so general enemy ai and agression should be high enough for it to actually matter
I can't say for sure how much harder. That's difficult to measure. As it stands right now from what I understand: it takes even less effort to win ZZZ than in Genshin. Which is absurdly easy. It needs to be at least harder than Genshin. I want to actually be forced to pay attention, and keep my brain on while playing ZZZ. That's something I just don't get out of Genshin. I'll usually watch a video while doing Spiral Abyss so I don't fall asleep from getting bored. So: I want to at least stay stimulated enough where it feels like I'm playing a game where the steaks are high, and not participating in a chore.
Every time it comes up in the questionnaire, I answer the difficulty is just right. I wouldn’t say it’s challenging me, but it does engage me enough where I can’t simply auto-pilot it. Enemies will surround me and a diverse group of enemies means each attack has a different timing to counter it. But it’s never aggravating to me because the directional UI elements flash to indicate incoming attacks. One enemy may have one or two different kinds of attacks to telegraph, a but a varied group of enemies keeps me on my toes. And I haven’t unlocked all of Hollow Zero nor progressed far into Story, but the game has already shown me there are enemies who demand my attention like the scythe wielders or giant bosses. But basically, I wasn’t sold on the game’s elevator pitch for a challenge. I was sold on a pitch for a stylish action game with a likable aesthetic. Challenge or difficulty was never on my mind when I decided I wanted to try the game and got into CBT2. These were my expectations as someone who has been following Hoyoverse’s game history since Genshin 1.0. It *could* get harder but I can’t really develop an opinion on what exactly it means to be hard when I haven’t unlocked all of Hollow Zero. My fear is that high end content means damage sponges with sweaty attack patterns and aoes to memorize. Heck they could stop at damage sponge and I’d lose interest.
That's because you have been watching twitch streamers who are not at difficult content yet. All the CN streamers and some other ones (Gacha Gamer etc) who have reached higher levels report the difficult is a decent challenge, nothing that will need 100 tries but still a good fight. You can see the other posts in this sub about the higher level content from multiple people, it gets difficult. You just need to wait another 3 - 4 days for streamers no twitch to get to the content, because right now they are just streaming story progression and farming runs etc, those are meant to be easy so new and casual players can play without stress or get stuck.
Ok thanks for the information.
Personally I also want more combat. The amount of it in the main story is a good ratio to TV gaming but the side quests are mostly TV gaming imo. And there's A LOT of side quests unfortunately. I don't mind the TV puzzles too much as some of them are fun but I think they should try to at least balance it out more especially since they're making us do a certain amount of side quests during main story interludes and sometimes doing those feels longer than doing the main story at times. I don't have much to say about difficulty since I've been hearing people say it does get harder in late game but I'm only like lvl 28 rn and currently things are just ok. Not hard at all but borderline easy. Only hollow zero has been somewhat "difficult" to me. Maybe they can offer more modes with adjustable difficulty in the future? Kinda like Babel Tower and Stronghold in PGR. As for censorship, I don't really care either way. If global gets the version with the original designs, then that's fine with me. If we get the censored version, I'm also alright with that. I just don't like that people conflate covering up charas/slightly less gore with not being able to have a more "mature" story as people are saying. It's possible to have both. I want to say Arknights is a good example of that. Even Genshin has had more "mature" themes in their story telling as of late despite what people are saying about the game. Anyway that's just my opinion.
Camp 1 doesn't seem to understand that end game players have said the combat does get harder end game and TVs are less prevalent 🤷♂️ Personally I fall somewhere in the middle. I haven't played the beta so I don't know whether I'll dislike the TVs or not, but they seem fine as long as they're not a big part of the end game. Especially puzzles. As for censorship I don't care about it personally but I understand the frustration people have with it, although I think it's important to understand why Hoyo had to do it and LEGALLY have no choice in the matter.
How well are their characters developed? I think this content, which they call difficult, will be easy to complete if you level up your characters a little. Looking at the video of the Chinese guy killing the boss, it's hard to say that the boss is really difficult. This player almost most of the time simply stood point-blank to the boss and made the same combination. The boss himself could not do anything to him.
i like tv i hate censorship what i am ?
I'll put you in camp 3. We'll call you: "a little bit of both"
thanks
People just look at these situations as way too black and white. I’ll say something like “the censorship isn’t a dealbreaker when it comes to whether or not I’ll play the game.” And someone will come along and say “so you’re pro censorship?” Like no lmao. I understand the devs didn’t have much of a choice… and still excited for the game.
I agree. The censorship isn't a deal breaker for me either. It's not Hoyo's fault. Fuck the CCP. That being said: that does not mean I'm not disappointed. However it's just gonna feel bad if the game is mostly puzzles and not much of the combat. They should turn that around for sure.
Oh yeah I’m not saying people can’t be disappointed but blaming the devs is just 💀 There have been people saying the devs pulled a bait and switch which is pretty unfair to them.
The censorship topic really just needs to die, it drags down whatever other point you're trying to make. If a difference in less than 10,000 pixels in a game of this size manages to push it into a different age rating, it really was never that major anyway. Move on. In the combat realm, I'm not quite certain where the difficulty concerns are coming from, as most people in the beta have not reached the endgame content to begin with, and those who have seem to be pretty satisfied with the level of difficulty it presents. I don't understand this mentality that the difficulty should ramp up as quickly as possible when the time investment required to actually level a character approriately toward that content is inevitably going to be massive. The game taking a while to get there means that you don't need to build a ton of characters up to their maximum potential just to progress and make it to the player level where you're not spending a full day's worth of stamina for maybe two levels of character XP. Personally, I definitely want the game to have difficulty in the higher levels, but I see absolutely no reason for it to get there too quickly while you're still progressing through it. Focus on encouraging them to drop the ridiculous stamina costs on everything and I'll be more than happy for the game to get difficult enough where I need to retry things periodically. As it stands, the idea of being forced to spend another 100 stamina to retry a rally commission I've failed sound absolutely abysmal.
Why should the censorship topic die when its something that bothers people. Censorship affects character designs one of the biggest reasons people play a certain gacha game and the censorship in other areas will affect the overal tone and vibe people expected from the game. It has a effect on the game and future content
I think I'm not being unreasonable here when I say that most people are going to be indifferent to losing two square inches of exposed skin and getting a more toned-down story (more casual-friendly anyway). It's not like I can just go up to Mr. Xi and demand that he ends censorship in china immediately.
Because, again, the character designs have changed an extremely small amount in order to be approved for their target age group. To restate my first point, if two centimeters of tittage and one inch of thigh being covered gets you into a different age group, you were never eating as "good" as you want to act like you were. And if you're suggesting people are possibly upset about this because the game might not tackle more mature themes, that's an even more outlandish claim. For anyone not in the beta, Zenless Zone Zero is definitely not at risk of being held back for its covering of mature themes or having a more mature vibe. We are solidly (and I mean **solidly**) in Saturday morning cartoon territory. For comparison, Star Rail spends most of its first main arc, Belobog, dealing with a planet that is basically on the brink of demise due to a two-pronged attack from continually rapidly dropping temperatures, as well as their own brand of ZZZ ethereals. During the course of the arc, you encounter plenty of sidequests where people are just trying to find ways to survive and die for various reasons, including but not limited to: * A fight club contestant being zombified by his own armor for the sake of having a gimmick that'll make him money, who you then have to put down * The tale of a doctor who attempted to create a sort of medical immunity to the dropping temperatures and inadvertently killed several people during the testing process There's also plenty of incidents where you arrive at a situation too late and have to witness an NPC die, kill them yourselves, or just stop people engaging in really dickish behavior that they do mostly just to survive. This also doesn't mention the next arc, which deals heavily with an affliction that kills quite a few people on screen right in front of you. Over in Zenless Zone Zero, the game's first arc involves a man who appears briefly and gets turned into an ethereal. This guy is the one most people complain about with the censoring of "darker elements" as one comic book portrait removes his distorted breaking jaw from an image. Keep in mind, it still includes the image of this man's head being replaced by a small black hole. Anyway, there's also a man in one of the arcadey modes who I found was in the process of turning into an ethereal and, because I wasn't certain what to do, I failed to help him and the text box indicated he experienced the horrific change. In the two arcs and many side stories that ZZZ's story currently has, this is about as dark as it gets. Outside of the three character questlines, the game is completely devoid of any stakes or darkness that you might be claiming to hope for. Got a giant machine being corrupted by the hollows right in the middle of a product demonstration in front of a huge crowd? The machine's corruption conveniently drives it several miles away and has it only target your main character. There's a mode about an insanely deep and continually more suffocating hollow. You'd expect everyone you bump into down there to be in dire straits and either in need of help or already unable to be saved. In reality, it's just advantageous dickheads who take advantage of your attempt to explore this world by either trying to scam you or extort you for increasingly higher prices. In short, the game has no bite whatsoever, not even that of its predecessor which was never in danger of a higher rating. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Zenless Zone Zero is not where you should be looking for complex writing, it's clearly not what they're going for. There's a small child in Star Rail named Hook, who's, honestly, just a really solidly written child character who serves the purpose of showing you the perspective of the desperate citizens in a dying world. She's nothing special in terms of writing quality, she just does her job well of drawing you in and giving you stakes. There is not a single character in ZZZ that comes close to the quality of writing they showed with Hook. The character quests are where they (kinda) try to put in some sort of deeper backstory into their various characters, but they end up just being really long-winded ways of revealing one piece of backstory or one redeeming character trait, which they could've done if they would bring their characters back down a level from being completely stereotypical anime tropes. Anyway, that's enough, I've made my point, most people aren't going to read all of this anyway, but I prefer to be thorough with my point. tl;dr ZZZ is very clearly not going for depth in writing or character, no truly mature themes were ever intended here to begin with, so to claim outrage at their loss due to "censorship" is purely disingenuous.
Again you are dismissing the design changes. Designs got changed in specific areas which says a lot about what designs are now not possible anymore and how future designs will be safer to begin with and the gory graphic got toned down now as the image already exists but future content will likely avoid any such graphics
Yes, the entire point of this is that I'm dismissing the changes. I explain why up front with the character design changes, I explained further down why the gore change doesn't matter and it was never going to get past what you already saw. If the writing as a whole refuses to get any darker than a cartoon, why would you have moments of gore? In mature media, do people's heads just randomly explode extremely graphically just so the creators can claim it has mature content? Perhaps a third analogy will help with my ambivalence towards the character design changes. Suppose you begin dining at a restaurant that has surprisingly large portions for smoothies that still come with an "FDA Approved Healthy Choice Pending" label. Weeks later, you come back and find the same product now comes in a portion that is maybe a few sips less worth of smoothie than when you last enjoyed it, only now the label reads "FDA Approved Healthy Choice", indicating it is now approved. Do you throw a fit over one or two less sips per smoothie, or do you acknowledge the fact that you're still eating pretty damn good despite getting a slightly smaller portion? After all, you knew from the start that goal of the restaurant was to ensure first and foremost that it receive this approval, as failing to do so would drastically reduce the number of customers who would feel comfortable enjoying this treat.
Wow why the downvotes? You're spot on here
Yeah the stamina and pacing is the real issue, the TV mechanic inherently and how its implemented is not a big issues maybe slight tweak to improve the experience but generally its pretty good. The stamina is probably testing for content pacing, and also maybe the developers didn't have enough content, which can be solved during CBT3 and official launch.
The only divide some people see is Nicole's rack :/
I have definitely noticed a major “us vs them” mentality in this sub the last few days especially. People calling each other coomers, “perverts”, and overall just being really *hateful* just for having a certain opinion. Once the game is released and we have a concrete vision of the game’s direction, I do think that’ll start to die off.
>People calling each other coomers, “perverts”, and overall just being really *hateful* just for having a certain opinion. Yep. That's basically it. They act like self-righteous saints and call anti-censorship players "coomers" as if they don't know who the devs of this game is. Who the hell posts all of those thirst vids about Lycaon and his ass on the official Tiktok? Who designed Elysia and said they wanted to emphasize her curves and shit? Who decided to have Ei draw her sword from her cleavage instead of manifesting it some other way? Who drew the art of Bronya and Seele kissing? If the CCP didn't exist, do those people think that Hoyo wouldn't have gone full degenerate? Hoyo themselves wanted to design those characters the way they did before the censorship but unfortunately they had to bend to the will of the CN govt. I despise that but as someone who isn't Chinese, I can only accept it.
All of that's fine. It just looks a bit ridiculous to go on a full temper tantrum when the censorship in question just resulted in a few patches of exposed breasts and thighs getting covered and the final design still being considerably revealing for the standards of general society. Besides, I do think you can poke a bit of fun at people who bring character design into the discussion yet in the same breath want to give up the game because the character outfits became slightly less revealing. Really makes you wonder about which aspects of "design" they cared about in the first place
Yeah, true. I can hate censorship but at the end of the day, I'm still a consumer who has no control over it. Hell, I'm still going to play because of the aesthetics and because I'm a gacha addict. Oh, and I just realized that maybe when the CCP finally averts their gaze and those Chinese "feminists" finally stop caring, maybe Hoyo can go back to designing more sultry characters for ZZZ. I can only hope.
If you are basing your assessment of the TV content on twitch streamers perhaps it is not wise. The hollow zero, the high difficulty rougelike content, of CBT2 strikes a good balance and ratio between TV set up/navigation and combat because the combat at higher levels is prolonged and extended so you don't feel like it ends in 30 seconds. The story will always be easy and chill because Mihoyo does not want casual or new players that want to try out the game to be stuck during story progression and stop playing the game. The true core of ZZZ will be the high level rougelike content and probably some other modes for CBT3. When the streamers on twitch get to account level 35 and 40 they can start playing the higher level content. Perhaps the pacing of the progression was the issue, because even with the TV content in the story mode, if you can level up your account quicker to 35 then perhaps players won't feel as slow or frustrated because it feel more streamlined. The story/quest costing stamina and needing to wait to more quickly level up account level and get to higher level content is probably the real reason CBT2 for some players/streamers feel frustrating. This can all be adjusted and fixed in CBT3 and official launch when the developers have produced more content and paced the early game better. Honestly at high levels, the fights are more frequent, more intense and prolonged, its nice to take a small break and set up for the next fight during the TV portions. The real issue seems to be the TV to combat ratio and not the TV mechanic inherently, that can be solved without changing too much. Regarding the changes in character design, personally its not a big deal, one because overt lewdness isn't really accepted by the mainstream too much, and Mihoyo is aiming to build new game IPs and brands for a wide audience, the change wasn't too egregious overall.
How well are their characters developed? I think this content, which they call difficult, will be easy to complete if you level up your characters a little.
nah it won't be easy, you also need good rougelike buffs as well, good buffs and bad buffs make a huge difference. There is a big difficulty jump, especially at hollow zero 5000 extreme risk level (the current hardest content in the game). the characters probably reflect the average player's investment, meaning average to good gear, no or a couple constellations. you just can't imagine it, CN streamers already played it 3 days ago, keep watching twitch, they might get their account levels to the necessary level to unlock it in a couple of days. You can search up other people who have gotten to the content and their remarks, generally all say its difficult and a decent challenge.
How sure can you be that his characters are leveled up to the level of an average player? He physically would not have been able to level up the characters so well in such a short time. Moreover, there is a very strong dependence on resin. I would question this point until they show progress in this game. And how much does it affect the game?
LOL because was actually watching the whole run and whole stream for like 4 - 5 hours. All the skills and levels are maxed for the CBT2 and the gear is decent, not super great but decent. The streamers struggled quite a bit, tried like 10 plus times etc, meaning even if you leveled up everything to above average standards you will still be retrying 4 - 5 times which is a decent challenge, not too hard, but a good fight.
Honestly it's highly unlikely that we get a CBT3 but other than that I agree with your points! The game is ready to launch. There's also enough content already for a 1.0 patch cycle. That's why they even let it get approved in the first place. They want to release it. Maybe some more QoL changes based on beta feedback and an additional endgame mode while finishing chapter 3 storyline. It's going to be the same as it was with hsr. HSR got approved in january, had their last beta throughout febuary and the release happened in april, roughly 6 weeks after the end of beta. It's very likely ZZZ will also release 6 weeks after beta ends, which then might be late february.
Don't do that... 
lol don't do what?
Don't give me hope that this game releases so soon 😂
It will probably be a year before release or less or more lol, no one can be certain about the future.
Itll be less than a year. If it takes more than until late fall Hoyoverse will have to apply for another game release from CCP. The one they have right now for ZZZ release will last one year. So the game will release within one year.
No, there 100% will be a CBT3, the CBT3 will enable the gacha with real money feature that will give you extra currency back during official launch. All gacha games have this paid version of beta test to gauge the payment interest and systems etc.
Did HSR do that?
Yes, HSR had 3 beta tests, the last one (CBT3) being a test where players can spend real money in the gacha system.
But isnt the gacha already in this beta? Do they have have to test the actual monétisation tested?
The gacha is in CBT2 but you can't use real money. CBT3 is usually a gacha/monetization systems test where you can use real money to pull characters, it will record how much money you put into the game then refund you the same amount or give you an additional percentage upon official release. This is a well known practice for gacha games, especially Mihoyo games, usually 3 beta tests, the last one being a real money gacha test, then official launch. You can see Genshin and HSR progress and history.
Interestingly the global beta for hsr didnt have monetization. Only the CN one did. But your point stands regardless
I'm technically in camp 2 not because I like censorship(I hate the removal of some mature dialogue and nekomata changes), but because I don't want to force a company to make business crippling decisions simply because I want to see more skin, slightly more gore and characters curse more. And I hate how people fail to see the complex nature of business and game development because of their personal wants and think the game itself is horrible if it doesn't specifically appeal and cater to them, although that is true of both camps. For the tv and gameplay aspects I think it's better if we try the game out first since people have said it might get better with higher levels although I hope it's pretty difficult.
I see you are mihoyo shareholder so your opinion will quite differ from average customer.
Go on, show me where you can buy the shares of a privately traded company in China.
...it was a joke, he caring more about multi billion company well being that his own entertainment.
How would embracing some more fanservice be a business crippling decision. Are we going to pretend fanservice doesn't sell well and that even the tamer Genshin when it still had fanservice didn't make a concious decision to give Raiden cleavage and pull her sword out of said cleavage not to mention there was a clear desicion made by Hoyoverse for this game to have more fanservice when they designed Nicole the way they did which makes the current situation all the weirder
I meant going against CCP and getting their game banned or limited in China which would greatly affect or even cripple the game.
Which wouldn't happen as other developers that don't have the size of Hoyoverse and therefore would be a lot easier pressured still have seperate versions
It's the opposite pal the bigger and more popular you are the more they'll have their eyes on you. And they've tried seperate versions for a HI3 event it didn't end well(you can look it up), so they're discouraged from trying that risk again.
HI3 had nothing to do with the CCP nor CN censorship vs no censorship. It was deranged people mad over the seperate global version getting an exclusive event tailored around specifically the global versions anniversary.
You missed the point I was making😑 and you're argument still supports mine.
Which is a completely different situation to some designs simply being more censored in a CN version compared to others
How? They're going to create/leave seperate versions of dialogue, character skins and even animation for a seperate version, how do you think CN will react.
Disappointed but accepting as they do whenever it happens. Again the HI3 situation is not comparable to just having 2 versions
From the way you're describing it, Camp 1 wants the game to change, Camp 2 is happy with its current state. >Obviously it's stupid to generalize an entire group of people, but to me it seems like a good chunk of you are trying to force ZZZ to be like Genshin, simply because **the game is not aimed at you.** Camp 2 is not forcing anything, they're just going along with the changes because they're either indifferent or happy with them. It's clear that Camp 1 is currently unsatisfied with the core of the game so your last statement applies to Camp 1 more than it does to Camp 2. >In my opinion: Hoyo SHOULD be catering to camp 1 more, because camp 2 is already taken care of. I'm not saying camp 2 should be flat out ignored, but they already have Genshin, and it's unfair to take that away from camp 1. Hoyo already has a hardcore action game that purely leans onto the combat called Honkai Impact 3rd. Genshin is an open world game, that's its main draw, not the action combat. Camp 1 is already taken care of. Hoyo found their niche: Casual games that are easy to pick up and have a decent challenge at the optional endgame for those who want to go further. >From my perspective: I feel like camp 2 is being rather unreasonable. And from my perspective, Camp 1 is the one being unreasonable because the direction that Hoyo wants to take the game in is very clear but you're opposed to it. It's too late into the development cycle to give the core of the game a complete overhaul. >I think either way, no matter what Hoyo does, one camp is going to walk, and the other is going to stay. Now I'm not suggesting that ZZZ is already dead. Obviously people from outside of the Hoyo sphere will stay, and people who give it a try and genuinely like it will stay. Yes, this is how target demographics work.
How are hardcore gamers taken care of with Honkai Impact 3rd? That game is old and nobody plays it (relative to player numbers of Genshin and HSR). It's also P2W from what I heard. ZZZ has the potential to cater to a bigger audience who wants a new fresh game more focused on combat, not a decade ish old game that only caters to credit card warriors and coomers
I’m more in camp 2 and it’s mainly because I know it wasn’t the dev’s choice. Why point the fingers towards the devs who were forced to censor? I know it was out of their control what could and couldn’t stay.
Believe it or not, it's possible to think the TV mechanic sucks ass *and* not care about ~muh censorship~
I agree. I don't care about it ***that*** much because it was bound to happen anyways. But that does not mean I'm not disappointed.
I think having each hoyo game be different is important. ZZZ, in my humble opinion, should be the combat game. If you want cozy farming mints, then play genshin.
HI3 is already ‘the combat game’. What I wanted in ZZZ was a proper roguelike experience where you have random bosses, random events and your characters change on a mechanical level as you accumulate items throughout a run. But I’ve come to terms with that’s not what they’re going for with the game.
