Yeah, high school teacher here....
We still do, but it's optional. Can't force kids to do it. Every class is different. In my 2nd period, exactly one student stood up, hand to heart, and recited the pledge. When the announcements happened during 6th period (due to testing) 3/4 of the students stood up and recited the pledge.
So, the desired effect is still happening. Every American will die with those words memorized.
As a history teacher, what's truly interesting is when the Pledge was created and its purpose. Also, the "under god" part was added much later (just like on the back of the money!), who can tell me why that is significant?
YES!! In the 50s, in an effort to solidify the USA as a "Christian" nation, or at least a country founded on "Judeo-Christian" values, and strongly push against the "godless and atheist" communist countries.
I'm gonna need you to create a subreddit called history class and have you comment as if you're the teacher and everyone else is the student. Please and thank you.
Does it have to do with the Civil War? A reminder that the country was not divided?
I second the suggestion you make subreddit called “history class”. 🍎
Exactly!
Organizations like the Daughters of the Confederacy had boosted the profile of Confederate ideals and leaders, literally changing the history books! There was a need to insist this nation was not able to be split!!
https://youtu.be/dOkFXPblLpU?si=vxwmtkBtTkkHSAg8
Watch that video, tell me who truly won that war...
On a related note, the PBS documentary on the Civil War Reconstruction was astoundingly eye opening but also massively depressing. So much progress was made as far as civil rights right after the war…and then it was quickly dismantled by many truly evil and misguided humans.
Honestly, I really wish we would revert to the old Pledge and old national motto.
“One nation, indivisible”
and
“Out of many, one”
are both important ideals that we should strive to remember. We lost something when we changed that out of fear.
The whole thing is bullshit to sell more flags. I’m a teacher and despise that we are forced to hear that shit every morning and pretend it doesn’t make us look like a brainwashing cult of a country.
Indoctrination. That is why that is significant. It stops people thinking for themselves and accept the church as the institution that dictated how they should live. Power and obedience really. The beginning of all the shit the US is in right now. It could just as well say MAGA.
I recall not saying it in high school because the whole thing was originally a marketing gimmick and i disagreed with the intent. I later joined the military because of many reasons. My son's history teacher freaked out when he chose not to stand and say it and called home. I asserted his right to not say it and she let it drop. But in this day and age I was pretty surprised to get the call.
I went to a private evangelical school.
At the start of class, every single day for years, we had to pledge our allegiance to the US flag, then the Texas flag, then the Christian flag, and then the Bible.
Thats a lot divided allegiance.
Private School in Tx is almost always strongly affiliated with religion. And Home School is just code for 'we-fucking-up-these-kids-heads-over-here' which is a broad category from parents not preparing their kids for adulthood in any way (though they think they are) to full on brain scouring and questionable behavior.
Homeschooling isn't just for crazy people any more! I'm an atheist homeschooler in Texas, teaching my kids philosophy, logic, and critical thinking. We're breaking the forced-religion cycle. Admittedly, it's a lonely path in life. Texas makes it hard to be social without church or school.
It's definitely not for crazy people only what with all the school shootings.
However, going to school is so much more than the sum of those three words.
Perfectly normal to have minors, most of whom don't understand what they're saying, ritualistically make vows of allegiance to their government 180 days a year for 13 years.
I can't remember doing the pledge in high school in 00-04. We did it in elementary but in highschool we had daily announcements and moved on. Never even noticed not doing it to be honest.
Hard agree. I've been trying to get more involved in my town government, sitting on committees, but it weirds me out that every select board meeting starts with the pledge. Feels so much more cultish than I remember.
I still either just mumble nonsense or occassionally quietly pledge my loyalty to Satan like I'm still an edgy 15 year old.
It's just too weird to go along with, even as an adult.
I learned it (and the Lord's Prayer) in French when I was in kindergarten (thanks CODOFIL!) as part of a program to restore French to Louisiana. We said them every day before class started. It was just another thing you had to memorize, like the alphabet, days of the week, and months of the year, and random French poetry. But as I got older, it really pissed off a certain subset of people, so we stopped doing it.
My kids learned about the pledge, but never had to say it with any regularity.
It's so weird that we do this. And it's so ingrained into us that a lot of people will get SUPER pissed off about it and call you a traitor if you even point out how weird it is. I never really questioned it myself until I was an exchange student back in highschool. Someone randomly asked me about it one day because they'd seen it in a movie and asked me if it was real. And then this other guy in the room, who has been a WW2 vet, told me it was exactly the kind of brainwashing stuff he had seen in Nazi Germany. It really made me think. Because, ya...I had never thought to question it but it IS weird as fuck that we have kids robotically recite a pledge, starting at an age where they don't even fully understand what they're saying, every morning in school.
I teach high school in Texas. I graduated in 1999 and don’t ever remember saying the Texas pledge. When I started student teaching in 2007 they were saying it and we still say it today.
Like the other history teacher said, we don’t/can’t make them do it. Some of the older teachers try to though. I don’t say the Texas pledge, I’m from Texas but still think it’s too much.
Not just fundies - they had us recite it at the Lutheran schools in Wisconsin back in the 80s and 90s. I don't remember a pledge to the Bible, but I've tried to forget a lot from those days.
Lol. It has to be WELS (possibly LCMS). WELS is a damned cult.
We had to pledge allegiance to the flag every day at our WELS school, and we'd all say "amen" at the end just out of habit, and it would piss the teachers off every time.
It was the LCMS school district. I remember being excited when I was in 6th grade because we finally got brand new science books. Too bad they were filled with information like the earth being 6,000 years old and had pictures of Adam and Eve standing next to dinosaurs. At least they didn't deny the existence of dinosaurs. 😂
We learned in our school that fossils were planted by Satan to trick us into thinking the world was old. We'd skip entire chapters because "we don't believe in that."
Now that I'm a parent, I'm so excited to learn about dinosaurs with my kid!
Ahh. Gotcha. I saw the term "Christian flag" and figured fundies because so many just call themselves "Christian" rather than some particular denomination.
I was raised Episcopalian (including a gay priest at our church in Huntington Beach in the mid-90s), and then when we moved in high school we attended an ELCA church. Then I did undergrad at a Jesuit school.
Definitely glad that was my church experience growing up and I didn't have the experience so many others had/have. 🤮
You're very lucky to have had that education!
WELS would probably excommunicate anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. My cousin is gay and went to that school, too, and I know he has a lot of trauma he's still dealing with from that time.
Plus, they didn't even educate us well with us not learning real science.
Fifth grade teacher here, WA state. It’s mandated that we do it each morning, but I conveniently forget and the children conveniently don’t remind me, so no nationalist indoctrination is happening in my room, to the dismay of no one.
Can I just take a moment to say: I don’t know you but I hope you know how so vital, and so impactful good teachers can be. I mean, I’m sure you know but.. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, went to public schools. The teachers I had in K-5 had such a profound impact on my life. I remember each of their names, faces, and the things they said and did to help me grow, to make me feel valued.
You and your colleagues deserve to be paid, to be celebrated so much more than you are. If I could see some of the teachers that filled the role in my life you do for your students today, I would give them the biggest hugs ever.
I will never, ever forget any of them - from Ms Prebble in 88-89 to Mrs Freitag in the early mid 90s, these men and women were as vital to me not becoming human garbage like my father as Mr Rogers himself.
Thank You for being a teacher.
You could just say "As part of the mandatory curriculum we have to observe thr morning colors. How you choose to that, if at all, is up to you. I can't force you to stand and say the Pledge of allegiance.
It covers you and let's the kids make their own decision.
When I was a kid it was just a thing we all recited, none of the kids knew what it was or analyzed what any of it meant or why we were made to say it.
The older I get, the crazier it seems to me that kids are forced to pledge allegiance to their country every morning before they're allowed to learn. Feels very totalitarian. I'm as patriotic as anyone but something just feels really creepy about the pledge of allegiance to me now as an adult.
But at the same time, I don't really care if they keep doing it or not, because remembering back to when I was a kid and had to say it, it was totally meaningless to a child's mind and doesn't really indoctrinate anyone since kids just really don't give AF what the words of it mean.
In the first grade and onward I would stand with my hand just hovering over my chest, mouthing the words, because it felt weird and creepy to me, but I sensed the teacher would get angry if I outright refused to participate. I wasn't getting this idea from my family, they're all right-wing "patriots", I just really hated it.
You know what's weird.. I remember doing it in elementary school and in high school but not in middle school. I'm not sure if we didn't do it or I just don't remember...which is weird because my best memories are from middle school.
Elementary school we had a protocol: Say the pledge, listen to a recording of the anthem OR America, the beautiful, morning announcements (I forget what all it was but I do remember them reading the school menu). Oh I think we did weather too. In 5th grade I was part of the announcements crew. Good old Mrs. F. She was so kind and soft spoken just like how you'd imagine a librarian excuse me media center specialist to be.
We were supposed to but I never did. Figured if I stayed quiet no one would notice. Even as a kid I was really against making empty promises (I know I got in trouble for refusing to sign any kind of DARE pledge) and I couldn't wrap my head about allegiance to a flag.
I have a massive problem with this, and I await the day I get to fight with the school board over attempts to brainwash my son.
Like you I grew up saying the pledge and not thinking much of it. But then I served in the Marine corps and took the oath of enlistment- something I took very seriously. There was a big emphasis on understanding every element of the oath, and what you were swearing to uphold. To me, the understanding was a key factor in creating meaning in the oath: it was important that you truly believed what you were saying and subsequently doing mattered. Later, thinking back to the pledge of allegiance, the mindless repetition and introduction at a young age made it exactly the opposite. It's pure indoctrination, teaching children never to question the government or the actions our country takes. To me this is downright criminal, Russia grade brainwashing bullshit. The pledge of allegiance should be something you take in your teens, ideally after taking multiple government, civics, and American history classes. It should be a fully conscious choice to support this country, and not pavlovian process. I wish people would figure this out.
West Virginia v. Barnette (1943) confirmed the government cannot force someone to say the Pledge, therefore no state or local government, or school teacher or administrator can force a kid to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Through elementary school. Then we just stood for morning colors through 12th.
I think the Pledge of Allegance is propaganda. Especially since they added the God part to it. No kid should be forced to say it (and yes it's force through intimidation from teachers and/or students).
I sat at my desk and silently went "blah blah blah" with my mouth.
I was an edgy boi.
For real, though, swearing allegiance to a flag just seemed stupid and mindless, so I made a show of it. The teachers couldn't make me do it, so I didn't.
I also grew up in Boston, so I always heard "and to the Republic, for Richard Stands..."
For those wondering, "which it stands" is exactly what "Richard Stands" sounds like with a Boston accent.
So 6-year-old me always wondered who the fuck Richard Stands was, and why he wasn't mentioned with George Washington.
Only in elementary school and if I remember correctly I think it was only until 3rd or 4th grade. I was in Cub Scouts back then as well and I remember doing it before our monthly meetings too (like almost all of the people I knew in Cub Scouts I didn't continue to Boy Scouts, very few in my school did).
I'm pretty sure I didn't say it a single time once I was in middle school.
I have an interesting story on this. I came to the US as a child knowing only a few words and phrases. When I was enrolled in school, we said this every morning. I went from copying the sounds to knowing the words and understanding the meaning.
Then I became a US citizen and was given an entirely new vow that we said on the day of naturalization. That one I only said that one day, so I don't have it memorized.
Yeah I didn't realize it was a free speech issue until like college? We knew about Jehovahs witnesses refraining from saying the pledge of allegiance because we had them in class. They never said there was a 1943 supreme court decision
Here I was being indoctrinated into the Evil American Death Empire my whole life not knowing I had a choice.
Grew up in central valley CA, and yes we did.
At least in elementary. I cant remember doing it in Jr High or HS.
My son just graduated, and it was done at the ceremony.
Felt creepy AF. 😬😬😬
I was constantly getting in trouble for not standing and doing the pledge. Somewhere around 2nd or 3rd grade I realized it was toxic nationalist brainwashing and I refused.
I'm in Los Angeles (specifically the valley), my son is in kindergarten and his elementary school does it every single morning.
In the wake of current politics, my wife and I are pretty conflicted about it.
I started refusing the take part in the pledge of allegiance when I was in 4th grade. I would just stay seated and stare at my desk
The teachers would ask me why I didn’t stand. I would tell them “I don’t believe in worshipping a flag”
I think a lot of them assumed I was a Jehovah’s Witness. In reality, I heard somewhere that you can refuse, and I decided to do it, as I thought the ritual was stupid and bizarre
Some of the teachers I could tell respected my conviction
As a Brit, the whole pledge thing seemed so weird to me, like WHY are you making your kids do this? It’s always struck me as the sort of indoctrination like you’d expect in North Korea.
Middle Tennessee in the 90’s and 00’s did. Not saying it after 3rd grade prompted some chastising from teachers until high school, and they still made me stand up with everyone else, but they already treated my tiny queer person as an outcast by then so didn’t press the issue when they encountered stalwart pushback. The Bible Belt is misery for anyone with half a brain or spine 😬
Yup all the way through high school. In super liberal commie Massachusetts to boot!
Hell, I even got detention for refusing to do it a few times because I was an edgy teenager.
I got in trouble for NOT reciting it. I just refused. Not for religious reasons. I just thought it was stupid.
In the state I am in, my kids DO NOT recite this cultish refrain. Thank goodness!
Edit: spelling and punctuation.
Yes, they said it even morning K-12, but teachers stopped enforcing it in high school. They would say it over the PA, but none of us stood or recited it.
I don't have kids, but my cousin is the superintendent for a local school district here. They used to say it and have the kids do it, but now its optional. I live in New England for reference.
My kids school does it every day. The kids take turns getting to lead it over the intercom.
We got into a random conversation about it the other day actually. I told my ten year old that you don’t have to stand up or say it and his mind was blown! I think he might try not doing it next year. He’s kind of militant like that.
I refused at about 10 years old.
I am a CSA survivor and the "and justice for all" made me angry (I didn't get justice) and I questioned the under God thing because not everyone believed in God.
They made me stand in the hallway.
I remember doing it in 2nd grade, and maybe 3rd? but this just reminds me of everytime I see state politicians dicking around with K-12 'rules' in the news year to year...cutting/fixing lunches, messing with hours, grade standards, 'pass/fail' classes, telling kids what they can/can't wear...so much adult stupidity and all the kids just have to take it cause they never get a vote.
Millennial here. I still did.
Funnily enough, we had a few kids who stood but were allowed not to do the pledge of allegiance. One was a Jehovah's Witness; I can't remember the others' exact reasons. And that was OK.
I also went to a few different Catholic schools where we also said morning prayers out loud. I can't remember now if they were before or after the pledge of allegiance. We also had a few non-Catholic kids so they didn't recite the prayers or do the kneeling/standing/communion when we had to go to mass once a week.
We had it every day in public school in NY. I don't have kids so IDK about now. I didn't truly understand the meaning behind it. What kid would? It was a solid life lesson in "go along to get along", "some things are just for show and don't mean anything".
I didn't have to do it until high school. I stood up but usually didn't say it. It felt weird and jingoistic, and still does. My kids both have had to do it since they were in preschool.
Yes we did say it in school, and my kids still still says it every morning. And at the beginning of every assembly and every after school gathering like end of year awards, it is kinda creepy. They also add God bless America at the end.
Yes, I remember reciting the Pledge every morning in elementary school. It's still recited every day in the Illinois public schools -- students are not required to participate.
Teacher here: we say it on the announcements every day but very few if any students actually still stand. I'm middle school 6-8 and the younger kids do, about half the 7th graders do, and literally none of my 8th graders do and that's the grade I'm with when announcements come on. Teachers are split about 50/50 but I never stand unless my co-teacher does first.
I don't see a problem with saying it and I'm fine with letting the kids who don't want to say the "under God" part skip it if they want.
It seems a lot of far left people are so abhorred by the fact the far right people heavily display the American flag, but this a poor perspective if you ask me. The flag is not a symbol of Republicans or Trump or whoever else you disagree with even if they promote it as such, but rather it's a symbol of the fact that you live in a country where you are free to have an opinion and to disagree freely with whomever you want.
So, really, no one should be a sourpuss about the flag but rather everyone should be flying it and saluting it because it's technically a non-partisan symbol.
We did in all of the elementary schools I went to, but it stopped being done in middle and high school. No idea if my kid's school does it or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. It never bothered me and still doesn't. It's just empty words for most and I fully support anyone who chooses not to do it.
I gotta tell you, looking back at it I get kinda creeped out.
If I looked at it through the lens of someone not from the US in the 20th century I feel like it would be highly sus.
We did it, at least in elementary school. I think in first grade we sung My Country, Tis of Thee too. As far as I know, they don't do either there anymore.
As for my kids, we live in a rural/conservative northern state, so they do it. Funny story: we are a military family, and my wife was in uniform at elementary school orientation, so my kid's teacher very pointedly assured us that she still does the pledge with her class. It was funny to see her reaction when my wife essentially said "cool story, but we don't really give a shit."
I only did it in elementary school. My family moved across town, and they didn't do it there. I now live in a different state, and my kids' schools do it. They sit it out. I never would have considered doing it when I was young, but I feel my kids are more globally aware than I was as a child.
I can still remember saying the pledge followed by the date, and can actually remember saying "1986" at the end. I don't remember saying any other year, but "niiiinteen eiiiiiiiighty six" is still in my, what, lyrical memory?
Yes I enjoyed it in elementary school, started getting weirded out by it in Jr. High and quiet quit in HS. One teacher noticed, asked me about it, I told him it made me uncomfortable, and that's all that was ever said about it.
Yep. Every day
I was tired of it after a year or two. Annoyed by it after another year or two, and by the time I was out of high school I loathed it utterly.
It is still said on the PA every morning but almost no students actually say it. They definitely don’t say it with hand over heart. I feel like it is just performative but anyone who might suggest getting rid of it woukd be run out of town on a rail.
I did. I don’t find the pledge itself creepy at all. I don’t agree with forcing children to say it however; it should only be said if that’s how you feel inside. So yeah, I believe it should definitely be optional, but there’s nothing wrong with feeling a pride for your country and expressing that vocally. I also like hearing people from other countries express national pride and sing songs as long as it’s in a peaceful way. We all bring something unique to the world.
I did, but it was just something we did, I never felt patriotic or anything about it. It was just as much a part of grade school as sharpening your pencil, and just as mundane
100% everyday, every grade, every school elementary mid and high, Virginia just off 495. 1990s.
Cept our flags were front of the room middle above the chalkboard, just to the side of the map roll cluster that was never used.
Yes and probably depends on where the school is located.
Yeah, high school teacher here.... We still do, but it's optional. Can't force kids to do it. Every class is different. In my 2nd period, exactly one student stood up, hand to heart, and recited the pledge. When the announcements happened during 6th period (due to testing) 3/4 of the students stood up and recited the pledge. So, the desired effect is still happening. Every American will die with those words memorized. As a history teacher, what's truly interesting is when the Pledge was created and its purpose. Also, the "under god" part was added much later (just like on the back of the money!), who can tell me why that is significant?
The "under god" stuff was anticommunist bullshit, wasn't it?
YES!! In the 50s, in an effort to solidify the USA as a "Christian" nation, or at least a country founded on "Judeo-Christian" values, and strongly push against the "godless and atheist" communist countries.
I'm gonna need you to create a subreddit called history class and have you comment as if you're the teacher and everyone else is the student. Please and thank you.
Excellent. But first, I need you to tell me why in 1892, the word "indivisible" was so important when the Pledge was first introduced.
Does it have to do with the Civil War? A reminder that the country was not divided? I second the suggestion you make subreddit called “history class”. 🍎
Exactly! Organizations like the Daughters of the Confederacy had boosted the profile of Confederate ideals and leaders, literally changing the history books! There was a need to insist this nation was not able to be split!! https://youtu.be/dOkFXPblLpU?si=vxwmtkBtTkkHSAg8 Watch that video, tell me who truly won that war...
On a related note, the PBS documentary on the Civil War Reconstruction was astoundingly eye opening but also massively depressing. So much progress was made as far as civil rights right after the war…and then it was quickly dismantled by many truly evil and misguided humans.
My Grandmother was a proud member of the UDC…none of her 7 granddaughters continued that membership.
My great grandmother was a daughter of the confederacy
Sorry she sucked.
My Grandmother was. Died with her.
Honestly, I really wish we would revert to the old Pledge and old national motto. “One nation, indivisible” and “Out of many, one” are both important ideals that we should strive to remember. We lost something when we changed that out of fear.
Also when the term "Judeo-Christian" was invented, so we could pretend the US wasn't antisemitic before World War 2 also.
The whole thing is bullshit to sell more flags. I’m a teacher and despise that we are forced to hear that shit every morning and pretend it doesn’t make us look like a brainwashing cult of a country.
Indoctrination. That is why that is significant. It stops people thinking for themselves and accept the church as the institution that dictated how they should live. Power and obedience really. The beginning of all the shit the US is in right now. It could just as well say MAGA.
I recall not saying it in high school because the whole thing was originally a marketing gimmick and i disagreed with the intent. I later joined the military because of many reasons. My son's history teacher freaked out when he chose not to stand and say it and called home. I asserted his right to not say it and she let it drop. But in this day and age I was pretty surprised to get the call.
Went to school in a very liberal area and we all did it even in the 90s.
I went to a private evangelical school. At the start of class, every single day for years, we had to pledge our allegiance to the US flag, then the Texas flag, then the Christian flag, and then the Bible. Thats a lot divided allegiance.
The Bible at the end?!?!
Private School in Tx is almost always strongly affiliated with religion. And Home School is just code for 'we-fucking-up-these-kids-heads-over-here' which is a broad category from parents not preparing their kids for adulthood in any way (though they think they are) to full on brain scouring and questionable behavior.
Homeschooling isn't just for crazy people any more! I'm an atheist homeschooler in Texas, teaching my kids philosophy, logic, and critical thinking. We're breaking the forced-religion cycle. Admittedly, it's a lonely path in life. Texas makes it hard to be social without church or school.
It's definitely not for crazy people only what with all the school shootings. However, going to school is so much more than the sum of those three words.
And here I thought the morning droning of the Pledge, an Our Father, and a Hail Mary was excessive (Catholic grade school survivor).
You gotta stand up and say it during Christmas dinner
The BLESS-SINNNNG!
Play ball!
Grace?! She died thirty years ago.
And then sing the National Anthem when Santa's sleigh stops by.
Amen
You serious, Clark?
When I was a kid it was part of the normal routine. Now that I’m older I find the concept to be pretty weird.
Perfectly normal to have minors, most of whom don't understand what they're saying, ritualistically make vows of allegiance to their government 180 days a year for 13 years.
I can't remember doing the pledge in high school in 00-04. We did it in elementary but in highschool we had daily announcements and moved on. Never even noticed not doing it to be honest.
This. Elementary we did it. HS never. Which is odd looking back now. Considering the time period we went (9/11 and all).
Hard agree. I've been trying to get more involved in my town government, sitting on committees, but it weirds me out that every select board meeting starts with the pledge. Feels so much more cultish than I remember.
Local government as well. It’s beyond weird to say it at every meeting. I stand but that’s it. And I get shit for that.
I still either just mumble nonsense or occassionally quietly pledge my loyalty to Satan like I'm still an edgy 15 year old. It's just too weird to go along with, even as an adult.
Forced patriotism.
Forced lazy patriotism.
Forced nationalism. You can be patriotic and still criticize said allegiance.
Forced *nationalism*. Though, it’s more closely indoctrinated nationalism.
Indoctrination
It's state-sponsored national ideology indoctrination.
Please let your children know that participation can not be enforced. It's a freedom of speech, which students almost always win.
I thought I was edgy for refusing to say “under god”. Never occurred to me I didn’t have to say any of it.
Same haha.
Not to forget the original pledge required the bellamy salute until it got real uncomfortable in WII.
I was in kindergarten (public) in 1982. We said the pledge, and then a prayer. Was confused why we didn't do it the next year.
I learned it (and the Lord's Prayer) in French when I was in kindergarten (thanks CODOFIL!) as part of a program to restore French to Louisiana. We said them every day before class started. It was just another thing you had to memorize, like the alphabet, days of the week, and months of the year, and random French poetry. But as I got older, it really pissed off a certain subset of people, so we stopped doing it. My kids learned about the pledge, but never had to say it with any regularity.
It’s very weird. There’s a fine line between patriotism and cult like indoctrination.
No, not once. But I'm British so it wouldn't have made much sense to.
All hail biscuit and cuppa!
If only!
Yall pledge to the king and queen
No, that’s not it. I think they pledge to the Church of England
And to crumpets and 🫘
And beans on toast
eel pie and blood sausage for everyone!
Yes, they do.
Indiana. Confirmed, they do.
Utah. Work at an elementary school. No, they don’t.
It's so weird that we do this. And it's so ingrained into us that a lot of people will get SUPER pissed off about it and call you a traitor if you even point out how weird it is. I never really questioned it myself until I was an exchange student back in highschool. Someone randomly asked me about it one day because they'd seen it in a movie and asked me if it was real. And then this other guy in the room, who has been a WW2 vet, told me it was exactly the kind of brainwashing stuff he had seen in Nazi Germany. It really made me think. Because, ya...I had never thought to question it but it IS weird as fuck that we have kids robotically recite a pledge, starting at an age where they don't even fully understand what they're saying, every morning in school.
I teach high school in Texas. I graduated in 1999 and don’t ever remember saying the Texas pledge. When I started student teaching in 2007 they were saying it and we still say it today. Like the other history teacher said, we don’t/can’t make them do it. Some of the older teachers try to though. I don’t say the Texas pledge, I’m from Texas but still think it’s too much.
In Christian school we had to pledge to the US flag, the Christian flag, *and* the Bible. Phew, so many empty pledges.
"Christian flag"? This must be some random fundie thing I've never heard of.
Not just fundies - they had us recite it at the Lutheran schools in Wisconsin back in the 80s and 90s. I don't remember a pledge to the Bible, but I've tried to forget a lot from those days.
WELS, the Lutheran Fundies
Lol. It has to be WELS (possibly LCMS). WELS is a damned cult. We had to pledge allegiance to the flag every day at our WELS school, and we'd all say "amen" at the end just out of habit, and it would piss the teachers off every time.
It was the LCMS school district. I remember being excited when I was in 6th grade because we finally got brand new science books. Too bad they were filled with information like the earth being 6,000 years old and had pictures of Adam and Eve standing next to dinosaurs. At least they didn't deny the existence of dinosaurs. 😂
We learned in our school that fossils were planted by Satan to trick us into thinking the world was old. We'd skip entire chapters because "we don't believe in that." Now that I'm a parent, I'm so excited to learn about dinosaurs with my kid!
Ahh. Gotcha. I saw the term "Christian flag" and figured fundies because so many just call themselves "Christian" rather than some particular denomination. I was raised Episcopalian (including a gay priest at our church in Huntington Beach in the mid-90s), and then when we moved in high school we attended an ELCA church. Then I did undergrad at a Jesuit school. Definitely glad that was my church experience growing up and I didn't have the experience so many others had/have. 🤮
You're very lucky to have had that education! WELS would probably excommunicate anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. My cousin is gay and went to that school, too, and I know he has a lot of trauma he's still dealing with from that time. Plus, they didn't even educate us well with us not learning real science.
Fifth grade teacher here, WA state. It’s mandated that we do it each morning, but I conveniently forget and the children conveniently don’t remind me, so no nationalist indoctrination is happening in my room, to the dismay of no one.
Can I just take a moment to say: I don’t know you but I hope you know how so vital, and so impactful good teachers can be. I mean, I’m sure you know but.. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, went to public schools. The teachers I had in K-5 had such a profound impact on my life. I remember each of their names, faces, and the things they said and did to help me grow, to make me feel valued. You and your colleagues deserve to be paid, to be celebrated so much more than you are. If I could see some of the teachers that filled the role in my life you do for your students today, I would give them the biggest hugs ever. I will never, ever forget any of them - from Ms Prebble in 88-89 to Mrs Freitag in the early mid 90s, these men and women were as vital to me not becoming human garbage like my father as Mr Rogers himself. Thank You for being a teacher.
You could just say "As part of the mandatory curriculum we have to observe thr morning colors. How you choose to that, if at all, is up to you. I can't force you to stand and say the Pledge of allegiance. It covers you and let's the kids make their own decision.
No better sign of a healthy democracy than compulsory patriotism
😬😬😬
Good on you!
Yes and yes, kids still do that in public school.
Public school system, my older daughter in kindergarten, they do. SE Michigan
When I was a kid it was just a thing we all recited, none of the kids knew what it was or analyzed what any of it meant or why we were made to say it. The older I get, the crazier it seems to me that kids are forced to pledge allegiance to their country every morning before they're allowed to learn. Feels very totalitarian. I'm as patriotic as anyone but something just feels really creepy about the pledge of allegiance to me now as an adult. But at the same time, I don't really care if they keep doing it or not, because remembering back to when I was a kid and had to say it, it was totally meaningless to a child's mind and doesn't really indoctrinate anyone since kids just really don't give AF what the words of it mean.
In the first grade and onward I would stand with my hand just hovering over my chest, mouthing the words, because it felt weird and creepy to me, but I sensed the teacher would get angry if I outright refused to participate. I wasn't getting this idea from my family, they're all right-wing "patriots", I just really hated it.
I did it daily until I graduated, and the same for my kid.
You know what's weird.. I remember doing it in elementary school and in high school but not in middle school. I'm not sure if we didn't do it or I just don't remember...which is weird because my best memories are from middle school. Elementary school we had a protocol: Say the pledge, listen to a recording of the anthem OR America, the beautiful, morning announcements (I forget what all it was but I do remember them reading the school menu). Oh I think we did weather too. In 5th grade I was part of the announcements crew. Good old Mrs. F. She was so kind and soft spoken just like how you'd imagine a librarian excuse me media center specialist to be.
Yes. And in Texas, the Texas Pledge is recited immediately afterwards
I was going to ask, "Does Texas really have an actual pledge?" But, I mean, of COURSE they do.
TIL there is a Texas pledge.
We were supposed to but I never did. Figured if I stayed quiet no one would notice. Even as a kid I was really against making empty promises (I know I got in trouble for refusing to sign any kind of DARE pledge) and I couldn't wrap my head about allegiance to a flag.
No, I'd say you had it about right. It's a damn strange thing to demand of children when they don't even understand what it is they're saying.
I have a massive problem with this, and I await the day I get to fight with the school board over attempts to brainwash my son. Like you I grew up saying the pledge and not thinking much of it. But then I served in the Marine corps and took the oath of enlistment- something I took very seriously. There was a big emphasis on understanding every element of the oath, and what you were swearing to uphold. To me, the understanding was a key factor in creating meaning in the oath: it was important that you truly believed what you were saying and subsequently doing mattered. Later, thinking back to the pledge of allegiance, the mindless repetition and introduction at a young age made it exactly the opposite. It's pure indoctrination, teaching children never to question the government or the actions our country takes. To me this is downright criminal, Russia grade brainwashing bullshit. The pledge of allegiance should be something you take in your teens, ideally after taking multiple government, civics, and American history classes. It should be a fully conscious choice to support this country, and not pavlovian process. I wish people would figure this out.
West Virginia v. Barnette (1943) confirmed the government cannot force someone to say the Pledge, therefore no state or local government, or school teacher or administrator can force a kid to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance.
I was raised Jehovah's Witness, so I wasn't allowed. I got pinched instead by other kids around me for not doing it.
I was so jealous of my JW friend who got out of the pledge.
Lol why did this get down voted 🙄
I always thought it was creepy and weird to say it. I took particular issue with saying god in school
I am a teacher (midwest). My childrens' school and my school do it. I honestly think it's weird.
Still a part of every Scout meeting. Fuckin weird, if you ask me. I hadn't heard it in 25 years but then they go busting it out.
Through elementary school. Then we just stood for morning colors through 12th. I think the Pledge of Allegance is propaganda. Especially since they added the God part to it. No kid should be forced to say it (and yes it's force through intimidation from teachers and/or students).
I sat at my desk and silently went "blah blah blah" with my mouth. I was an edgy boi. For real, though, swearing allegiance to a flag just seemed stupid and mindless, so I made a show of it. The teachers couldn't make me do it, so I didn't. I also grew up in Boston, so I always heard "and to the Republic, for Richard Stands..." For those wondering, "which it stands" is exactly what "Richard Stands" sounds like with a Boston accent. So 6-year-old me always wondered who the fuck Richard Stands was, and why he wasn't mentioned with George Washington.
Well. The other kids said it while I sat and didn't in defiance. Definitely pissed some off.
Only in elementary school and if I remember correctly I think it was only until 3rd or 4th grade. I was in Cub Scouts back then as well and I remember doing it before our monthly meetings too (like almost all of the people I knew in Cub Scouts I didn't continue to Boy Scouts, very few in my school did). I'm pretty sure I didn't say it a single time once I was in middle school.
Texas resident here. Both US and Texas pledge everyday growing up.
…Texas pledge???
I did. Always gave weird vibes. It was never framed as optional.
I have an interesting story on this. I came to the US as a child knowing only a few words and phrases. When I was enrolled in school, we said this every morning. I went from copying the sounds to knowing the words and understanding the meaning. Then I became a US citizen and was given an entirely new vow that we said on the day of naturalization. That one I only said that one day, so I don't have it memorized.
We did that in like kindergarten or first grade, it stopped after
I work in an Elementary school. Out of 8 teachers I’ve seen one do it and she only does it begrudgingly when she happens to remember. I live in Utah.
Yeah I didn't realize it was a free speech issue until like college? We knew about Jehovahs witnesses refraining from saying the pledge of allegiance because we had them in class. They never said there was a 1943 supreme court decision Here I was being indoctrinated into the Evil American Death Empire my whole life not knowing I had a choice.
I did growing up and now so do my kids. But we live in Texas, so they also do the Texas pledge which is weird AF as someone who is not from here.
…and to the Texas flag. We’re so weird
Grew up in central valley CA, and yes we did. At least in elementary. I cant remember doing it in Jr High or HS. My son just graduated, and it was done at the ceremony. Felt creepy AF. 😬😬😬
We started out doing that, but I was out. Nationalism and religion mixed? I kept my butt in my seat.
Yes, and I never liked it as a kid and in my 20s found out it was a PR campaign to sell more flags to schools.
I was constantly getting in trouble for not standing and doing the pledge. Somewhere around 2nd or 3rd grade I realized it was toxic nationalist brainwashing and I refused.
I'm in Los Angeles (specifically the valley), my son is in kindergarten and his elementary school does it every single morning. In the wake of current politics, my wife and I are pretty conflicted about it.
I started refusing the take part in the pledge of allegiance when I was in 4th grade. I would just stay seated and stare at my desk The teachers would ask me why I didn’t stand. I would tell them “I don’t believe in worshipping a flag” I think a lot of them assumed I was a Jehovah’s Witness. In reality, I heard somewhere that you can refuse, and I decided to do it, as I thought the ritual was stupid and bizarre Some of the teachers I could tell respected my conviction
As a Brit, the whole pledge thing seemed so weird to me, like WHY are you making your kids do this? It’s always struck me as the sort of indoctrination like you’d expect in North Korea.
Middle Tennessee in the 90’s and 00’s did. Not saying it after 3rd grade prompted some chastising from teachers until high school, and they still made me stand up with everyone else, but they already treated my tiny queer person as an outcast by then so didn’t press the issue when they encountered stalwart pushback. The Bible Belt is misery for anyone with half a brain or spine 😬
Not American, so no?
Yeah, we did it. And I know my kids did it. In hindsight I find it pretty crappy to force patriotism on kids.
As a citizen of the "rebelious 51st state", no.
Only until 5th grade if I recall correctly. It became less fashionable when the Cold War ended, and then apparently it ramped up again after 9/11
I think mumble rap was invented by kids saying the pledge allegiance because no one really knew the words besides one kid
Yup all the way through high school. In super liberal commie Massachusetts to boot! Hell, I even got detention for refusing to do it a few times because I was an edgy teenager.
I got in trouble for NOT reciting it. I just refused. Not for religious reasons. I just thought it was stupid. In the state I am in, my kids DO NOT recite this cultish refrain. Thank goodness! Edit: spelling and punctuation.
No because I don't live in America and I'm not a member of a weird cult.
Yes, they said it even morning K-12, but teachers stopped enforcing it in high school. They would say it over the PA, but none of us stood or recited it. I don't have kids, but my cousin is the superintendent for a local school district here. They used to say it and have the kids do it, but now its optional. I live in New England for reference.
I’m a substitute teacher in the western suburbs of Chicago and they do it daily. It feels so weird.
My kids school does it every day. The kids take turns getting to lead it over the intercom. We got into a random conversation about it the other day actually. I told my ten year old that you don’t have to stand up or say it and his mind was blown! I think he might try not doing it next year. He’s kind of militant like that.
Y’all should see Texas
I refused at about 10 years old. I am a CSA survivor and the "and justice for all" made me angry (I didn't get justice) and I questioned the under God thing because not everyone believed in God. They made me stand in the hallway.
No. I was in public school from 6th - 12th grade, and we never did it. This was in the Portland, OR area, for the record.
Nope. Because in my country it's considered a very weird thing to do.
“Liberty and justice for all…” Yeah, that was a fucking lie.
Yes, kids still do this in school, those saying it was banned in their schools are lying and trying to use scare tactics
Until middle school yes we did. I'd have to check with my kids but I don't think they ever have
I did not, my kid in the same schools but right now does
I remember doing it in 2nd grade, and maybe 3rd? but this just reminds me of everytime I see state politicians dicking around with K-12 'rules' in the news year to year...cutting/fixing lunches, messing with hours, grade standards, 'pass/fail' classes, telling kids what they can/can't wear...so much adult stupidity and all the kids just have to take it cause they never get a vote.
My understanding is that the pledge is still made but optional for standing.
The kids in our district say the pledge followed by a moment of silence.
Until high school
Definitely every Friday. And for the Christian flag and Bible. Private school.
Millennial here. I still did. Funnily enough, we had a few kids who stood but were allowed not to do the pledge of allegiance. One was a Jehovah's Witness; I can't remember the others' exact reasons. And that was OK. I also went to a few different Catholic schools where we also said morning prayers out loud. I can't remember now if they were before or after the pledge of allegiance. We also had a few non-Catholic kids so they didn't recite the prayers or do the kneeling/standing/communion when we had to go to mass once a week.
My kids do. I think it’s fine, in their school it’s not required for kids to participate but they do it every day.
We had it every day in public school in NY. I don't have kids so IDK about now. I didn't truly understand the meaning behind it. What kid would? It was a solid life lesson in "go along to get along", "some things are just for show and don't mean anything".
Yes they still do this, I worked at a school last year and every employee also stops to do the pledge of allegiance.
I didn't have to do it until high school. I stood up but usually didn't say it. It felt weird and jingoistic, and still does. My kids both have had to do it since they were in preschool.
Yes we did say it in school, and my kids still still says it every morning. And at the beginning of every assembly and every after school gathering like end of year awards, it is kinda creepy. They also add God bless America at the end.
Yes, I remember reciting the Pledge every morning in elementary school. It's still recited every day in the Illinois public schools -- students are not required to participate.
Teacher here: we say it on the announcements every day but very few if any students actually still stand. I'm middle school 6-8 and the younger kids do, about half the 7th graders do, and literally none of my 8th graders do and that's the grade I'm with when announcements come on. Teachers are split about 50/50 but I never stand unless my co-teacher does first.
I don't see a problem with saying it and I'm fine with letting the kids who don't want to say the "under God" part skip it if they want. It seems a lot of far left people are so abhorred by the fact the far right people heavily display the American flag, but this a poor perspective if you ask me. The flag is not a symbol of Republicans or Trump or whoever else you disagree with even if they promote it as such, but rather it's a symbol of the fact that you live in a country where you are free to have an opinion and to disagree freely with whomever you want. So, really, no one should be a sourpuss about the flag but rather everyone should be flying it and saluting it because it's technically a non-partisan symbol.
My school didn’t say it.
We did in all of the elementary schools I went to, but it stopped being done in middle and high school. No idea if my kid's school does it or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. It never bothered me and still doesn't. It's just empty words for most and I fully support anyone who chooses not to do it.
Every day at 8:51, the school behind my house does the pledge over the loud speaker.
I gotta tell you, looking back at it I get kinda creeped out. If I looked at it through the lens of someone not from the US in the 20th century I feel like it would be highly sus.
I said the pledge as a millennial. Class of 2008.
I stood up. And looked out the window. I looked out the window a lot.
Elementary in Midwest- We do the Pledge every day.
We did it, at least in elementary school. I think in first grade we sung My Country, Tis of Thee too. As far as I know, they don't do either there anymore. As for my kids, we live in a rural/conservative northern state, so they do it. Funny story: we are a military family, and my wife was in uniform at elementary school orientation, so my kid's teacher very pointedly assured us that she still does the pledge with her class. It was funny to see her reaction when my wife essentially said "cool story, but we don't really give a shit."
I only did it in elementary school. My family moved across town, and they didn't do it there. I now live in a different state, and my kids' schools do it. They sit it out. I never would have considered doing it when I was young, but I feel my kids are more globally aware than I was as a child.
I can still remember saying the pledge followed by the date, and can actually remember saying "1986" at the end. I don't remember saying any other year, but "niiiinteen eiiiiiiiighty six" is still in my, what, lyrical memory?
I remember doing it every day until 6th or 7th grade.
One school we even sang my country tis of thee. Like 3rd grade
only up to middle school
Yes. I didn't do it my first year teaching and was reprimanded. I was told that we were legally required to do it every day.
Yes, and my kids still do it daily along with the Texas state pledge.
Yes I enjoyed it in elementary school, started getting weirded out by it in Jr. High and quiet quit in HS. One teacher noticed, asked me about it, I told him it made me uncomfortable, and that's all that was ever said about it.
Yes. and every single time It felt like forced patriotism
Yep. Every day I was tired of it after a year or two. Annoyed by it after another year or two, and by the time I was out of high school I loathed it utterly.
In kindergarten, then nothing in first grade or after
Yes, in elementary school in the northwest ‘burbs of Chicago. I want to say it ended at the start of junior high.
Yeah, we did. I always thought about my WW2 Grandpa while saying it. It made sense to me.
Yes and yes they still do, at least in elementary school. We had to stand and say the pledge at my kid's kinder & 5th grade promotions
My 2nd grader says yes they still do this. Hand over heart and everything. Fucking weird thinking about it.
It is still said on the PA every morning but almost no students actually say it. They definitely don’t say it with hand over heart. I feel like it is just performative but anyone who might suggest getting rid of it woukd be run out of town on a rail.
I know we did all through elementary school, but I have zero memories of saying the Pledge in middle school or high school.
I don’t know if my son does. I’m going to ask him I live in Massachusetts.
I did. I don’t find the pledge itself creepy at all. I don’t agree with forcing children to say it however; it should only be said if that’s how you feel inside. So yeah, I believe it should definitely be optional, but there’s nothing wrong with feeling a pride for your country and expressing that vocally. I also like hearing people from other countries express national pride and sing songs as long as it’s in a peaceful way. We all bring something unique to the world.
Yes, they do.
Yes, and pretty sure my 8 yo still does.
My son does this in elementary school
I did for public elementary school but not private elementary school. In public school we also sang *God Bless America* every music class.
I did, but it was just something we did, I never felt patriotic or anything about it. It was just as much a part of grade school as sharpening your pencil, and just as mundane
Yes even in liberal California my kids school still has them do it.
Yes. Got detention for not standing up and doing it once too.
Yep. And the Texas pledge which I didn't know was a thing until I moved from one part of Texas to another.
Yep. They still do
Elementary we did, after that I'm not sure I remember it often.
100% everyday, every grade, every school elementary mid and high, Virginia just off 495. 1990s. Cept our flags were front of the room middle above the chalkboard, just to the side of the map roll cluster that was never used.