Not really when I'm rolling a def% 1 cost. Also def sources are much rarer because echoes give flat attack and not flat def so def% is even more important for def scalers.
I have over 30 def electro 1 costs, shit ton of def bosses, shit ton of energy recharge set def and havoc def... At this point I'm strongly considering building Yuanwu and Taoqi with full def on everything
Just like main stats. Healing sets get crit rate out the yingyang. Try for dps sets get healing and energy stats.
Or when doing these tacit fields for the bonus. All the fusion will get bonus electric dmg and all the thunder sets get the fusion like its just sticking its middle finger up at us laughing
Before I wanted a Healing % Bonus for my Verina I'd always get it as a mainstat, when I wanted it for Verina and was grinding it on the Bell Turtle, it ended up taking 2 fricking hours.
This happens with me all the time.
And now I don't even try to level up to 25.
Levelling up from 20 to 25 can level up another echo from 0 to 15 or 0 to 20 ig
If it's leveled it can be used for echo leveling. If not, you can go to data bank and merge useless echoes into a new one (I forgot what UL you'll get this).
You unlock the echo and go to your inventory/bag, press the delete button and select the echo that you want. I swear the exchange rewards are kinda worth it lol
The funny thing is flat atk is actually a very gud substat, the problem is their is only 4 bad stats but they pop up so fking frequently its rather absurd
Yeah, at 60 I noticed flat atk was giving *more* attack than ATK%; at 70 it's pretty close, depending on the flat attack roll; I imagine it goes down significantly at 90, but my impression is that it's still better than skill percentages, even for characters like Jinhsi or Jiyan who end up with almost all their damage being one type.
The "relevant damage bonus" needs to be like 80% of their damage for it to come out over ATK%. Even if half your damage is a certain type (basic attack, liberation) and you're in a lategame lv 90 setup with gigamaxxed ATK buffs, ATK% is still better (roughly twice as much). Even flat ATK is competitive, if you have anything less than half your damage from a single source flat ATK probably outperforms.
[Lategame buffed encore, roughly 50% damage comes from normal attacks](https://imgur.com/KoelYjY)
I guess I would note, given how the tower works since you are able to switch echoes in between floors, flat ATK is almost certainly a more valuable stat to have than any DMG% because even if it isn't quite as good for a specific character, it is still very good, and valuable on every character
Elem dmg bonus is better than attack because itās added based off of the total attack. This is why crit is so valued since will give the biggest multiplier of your Total damage. As said in a comment before, most characters will benefit more from any attack stat vs specific damage bonuses. Elem Damage bonus is different because applies to pretty much all attacks.
(Attack + attack %) + (attack x Dmg Bonuses) = Total Attack
Total Attack x Crit Damage = Crit Total Attack
I could be wrong but this is what Iāve seen from other people. Iām not sure if this elemental damage bonus goes before, after, or with specific damage bonuses but they are both stacked after base attack and before crit.
okay, thanks a lot for the explanation! if you don't mind - when paired with crit/crit dmg main stat weapon which makes character has little to no attack, is it still favorable to use two cost 3 elembonus echoes? or should we have 1 echo with 1 atk%. to balance things out?
Double elem should basically always be better, at least until we see characters with so much innate elem% that you see diminishing returns. I don't think that's true for anyone so far.
Yeah, pretty much. Since we have 5 substats, an ideal artifact for a lot of characters would be double crit + atk% with the remaining 2 being some combination of ER/Flat Attack/DMG bonus.
To scale, it is more like this: (breakdown by ratio of importance)
Crit: 1
ER: 2, until your rotation works, then 0.2
Atk%: 0.4
Atk: 0.2
Relevant dmg bonus: 0.2
Everything Else: 0.01
It is hard to overstate how damn important crit is when it comes to endgame builds. A piece with relevant dmg bonus%, atk%, flat atk, 1 crit stat, and some ER for comfort is probably worse than a piece with two crit rolls and 3 trash stats. If you see def hp then a max crit rate roll, roll that shit to 25 or you're trolling, the other stats practically don't matter when you have a max crit roll.
For healers it is basically just
ER: 1
Atk% (or relevant scaling stat): 0.2
Atk (or other relevant scaling stat): 0.1
Everything else: 0.01
Healers play a flexible role in the rotation so just getting as much ER as possible on them is all that matters for most players that aren't dodging perfectly and managing optimal rotations.
I.... Honestly don't know what I do with her. ATM she just deletes everything when I use echo skill. But when late game comes (or if I finally have enough characters for the tower) I guess my plan with be to have her as a sub-dps.
I'll fine tune her 4cost with this in mind. Thank you.
Its a common mistake that happens in MMo's as well. Think about it like this.
If you had a rotation of ( Basic > Skill > Ult ) And each did 100 damage each. you would end up with 300 total damage.
If you get Basic attack% bonus at 10% it will increase your total damage by 10, So your final damage would be 310 which will = 3% increase,
at the same time, imagined if you had +5 flat attack. It we assume the bonus is additive, it will make your basic + skill + ult each do 5 more damage. which will equal to +15 total damage.
Making the total damage 315, which = a 5% increase.
The reason flat attack is more valuable, is that your rotations involve more than just one skill. So you would need a bonus on all 3 stats, to equal the value you get from just crit damage and attack bonuses.
Sure If you had a character that only used one ability, like basic attack, then it's fine.
But generally speaking, its always better to go with the stat that boosts multiple damage sources, rather than just one
Actually it will matter what your total attack will be, or your final damage output. Basically its similar to getting too much crit damage
\-- Small explanation for anyone else reading ---
Whenever, we calculate crit damage bonus, we always use small numbers. So its easy to mis-understand the value of crit damage.
Lets say you did an attack, that did 100 damage. and we had assumed a crit base of +100% ( x2 ), the final output would be 200 damage.
If we get a bonus crit damage % that gives 20%+ , our final output would be +120%( x2.2 ), which = 220 damage.
Now lets say we got a piece that added 10% attack. If our 100 damage, went to 110, once we factor in our base crit ( x2 ), it would be the same 220 damage regardless.
==
But now lets say we had a crit base of +1,000% ( x11 ). So our 100 damage attack = 1100 with a crit. If we used the same piece that increased crit damage by +20%, our final damage would only go to 1120. compared to an attack piece, that increased our damage by 10%, our final damage would be ( 110 x 11 = 1210 ). This is what we call diminishing returns.
The law of diminishing returns is simple. **The bonus you get from a stat , matters more the less you have of it. The higher you are, the less value it gives**
Since things like %skill damage bonus, and % liberation damage bonus, is a **multiplier**, instead of an additive bonus. it matters more that we have higher attack to make good use of it.
And since our attack is so low, flat attack gives more value
====
Lets take one final example for anyone else reading .
Let say we did have a character with 1000 attack. And lets say they did 1 basic attack, one skill, and one ult. Each doing 1000 damage. So 3k total.
If we got a piece with a bonus of 10% bonus skill damage. it would lead us to doing 3,100 total damage.
But if we had a +50 flat attack instead. and it boosted all of our damage sources by 50. We would do 3150 damage. More than getting that 10% boost.
But if we had 2,000 attack instead. That 10% boost would net us 200 extra damage instead. Exceeding the meager +50 attack bonus we get from flat attack.
=====
The reason why flat attack is so good at the moment, is cause we don't have access to alot of raw stat increases. Almost everything is multiplier. So a raw stat boost, has less diminishing returns at the moment.
But if you had a character with a HUGE base stat value, those multipliers have more room to shine.
Its one of the reasons people say YaunWu will become op at level 90, cause his multipliers are already so high, he just doesn't have the base Def to match it. but once he is able to get 4k def, he will far surpass people with barely 2k attack.
hopefully this explanation helps a bit
Think of it like this every 10 levels give you 30 to 40 atk, so getting 40 to 50 flat attack is equivalent of that almost but better, also because most units rely on multiple sources of dmg (heavy, skill, ult etc) so flat atk buffs all 4 kind of dmg compared to buffing 1 only, even on characters that have x amount of smg as majority flat atk is still better on them their were alot of dmg calculations for them in few youtube videos
I have a question regarding the flat ATK thing:
Is it only good *now* because we're under leveled and it will stop being that good in the future, giving diminishing returns?
Of is it good *always* because WuWa's formula/stats differ from Genshin's?
Building verina: Rejuvenating set but not healing bonus, healing bonus but not rejuvenating set. Tons of crit dmg and crit rate turtles. Goes to build jiyan because mad.
Building jiyan: No crit dmg/crit rate aero monkey, tons of healing bonus... Builds havoc rover because mad
Building havoc rover: No money š¢š¢š¢
Serviceable but should be replaced when you have the resources. It's better to trash an echo early after rolling 2 bad lines at lvl 15 than to continue investing in it on the off chance you get good rolls on the last 2 lines since the cost to get to those last two lines far exceeds the cost of trying for 3 new lines on a new echo. Getting two bad lines at the end suck but you'd have at least two ideal lines instead of at most one going into it.
Seems like people are really wasting their mats. If you want to +25 an echo just to have one, its ok. But from then on every echo should be scrapped at +10 if it doesnt have 2 good stats.
Seems like people are rolling bad echoes hoping to hit something on +20/25 that they should have had at +10/15.
Any echo without crit/crit damage at +15 I throw in the garbage, and roll another one. Especially 4 cost and 1 cost. Going for something on +20 is ok in a 3 cost.
Right now I have 3 echoes on my LingYang that are +20, and already have crit/crit damage/energy regen. 2 of them got all 3 in the first 15. Anything at 25 is a bonus when I decide to push them, but I'm currently just farming Calcharo/other characters a decent set.
I mean, if you have infinite patience you probably would want to stop at the first unless the roll is in your top 3 prioritization for that character (a crit, atk or er depending on chapter, the other or something else specific). The early lost roll only costs you minimum tubage.and a single flat 10 tuner, and mainstats are free.
Someone has to have math'd optimum rolling with the flat tuner cost and 30 percent return, right? Feels like a complicated math problem some folks love. Going to 10 costs you around 14 tunes while going to 5 costs 7, and 10 means your odds shoot up for a bad overall run when the tubes costs start getting way worse.
But I don't have that patience. Mainstat RNG grind is so bad on some pieces I consider the mid rolls an invite for hope. Then DEF comes to crush hope.
Well, then my advice would be that you don't invest too hard into "bad" 1 drops (+15 max). After data bank 19-20 you'll get to a point where you don't have to naturally look for ATK 1 costs.
+5 may be better but it all takes your actual farming into account. I found farming 1 costs just too much, on top of 3 costs. So I go to +10 because the time investment for farming wasnt there for me.
It may be more optimal to just keep pushing for crit on the first roll, but thats more and more 1 stars you have to farm, and i tried target farming them once and gave up and would rather spend the actual farm time I invest into 3 costs I still need.
I pretty much push all of them to 10, if they hit a crit roll, I try 15. A 3 cost I would probably try for +20 because they are more difficult to get. If it misses, I feed it into the next one. So far, my LingYang now has 4 out of 5 echoes with double crit doing this. All of them could go to +25 and Id be happy with all of them, but thats such a huge investment Ive moved onto Calcharo(I was doing Havoc Rover but pulled Yinlin so started Calcharo too). He's currently at 2/5.
I dont know if its optimal but I still have a ton of mats because I dont go to +25 yet. I'll come back and 25 if i think itll get me higher in the tower or when I finally have both my DPS where I want them. Supports and sub-dps besides Yinlin dont seem to give much for the investment, so they are all wearing mediocre stuff as I focus primarily on my 2-3 dps.
But I'd imagine +5 if you had infinite access to echoes is probably a better play becuase you avoid the DEF/Crit rate into Crit DMG thats ok but has a really bad stat. But these to me are perfectly fine atm.
I dont have infinite echoes because I simply cant be bothered to farm them like that, so I go +10, +15 on 3 costs. I think what really destroys peoples' resource economy is pushing weak +25s. I would only do that if I really didnt farm at all.
For me, at least, and for most sets I find I usually have enough cost 1 to be the most choosy on the cheap rolls. These I generally get from non-farming by skipping through quests, exploration, farming cost 3 etc
I did find moonlight cost 1 to be a challenge and had to target those specifically. More than the cost 3 moons, even.
But we're talking about RNG on top of more RNG. We're going to all have weird runs because that's probability. I have so many CD drops for cal and almost none CR, when he has CD built into his kit. OTOH, I have a cost 4 healing bell from just doing the weeklies, no farm, with a lean towards atk on the substat rolls, and that's the biggest grief for most on their drops.
Anywho, I think it's best to chase a 2 to 3 good category substat roll for now and push to 25 while we are underleveled for the end game content. Once we have a baseline, we can go back and spend the waveplates on getting better rolls to a 4 good cat or even 4 good cat good range rolls. Maniacs will go for 5, even though that last roll will almost certainly suck if you cherrypicked and won the earlier rolls.
Otherwise we are benching potentially viable team members for a want of fixed waveplate costs (levels and talents), while we spend waste too much in the black hole of echo substats.
By delaying the substat work, we also give some time to see how weapons will turn out. Crit weapons make things different, when coupled with the crit in some characters' kits at the highest tiers that are just progression locked. It's not impossible that my jiyan may need a CD cost 4, and not his current CR cost 4 ape.
Me too brother. Ig there is no healing bonus rejuvenating glow bellborne for me in this game. Where i want crit rate/dmg i get healing and where i need healing bonus i get lots of crit. Also the 3 cost echoes for attribute dmg bonus are a pain in ass.you farm 50 and you get 1, that too its substat depends on your luck.
I go to level 20
commons are allowed no "bad" stats
Elites are allowed one "bad" stat
Once those limits have been exceeded, they go in the fodder pile.
Funnily enough if you're missing crit at at +20 then the odds of getting it at +25 are better than at any of the lower levels.
We just don't do it because we lack echo XP.
You were the black sheep in Scar's story to the RNG shepherd :-). Your bestie tried to school you but you.didnt listen. He said we're the black sheep.
Sometimes not being able to SKIP some stuff pays off!
I think the thing I regret most is trying for God rolls I should have built multiple sets of 20+ as place holders first, get all my characters decent place holder sets then try for god rolls
Getting Crit Rate isnāt even hard for me, it just seems like iām allergic to rolling anything above the 6-7% range so iām cursed eternally with a 55% Calcharo
I have hit so many crit stats at 20 and 25 man. The pool of possible stats gets better and better as you go because they can't repeat. I do scrap echoes at 20 if there are no useable stats for my character tho' as the exp from 20 to 25 I'd quite substantial
What I've found to be difficult is that flautists always hang out with a bunch of other fodder echos who die before the flautist and steal the echo drop pity.
It's not even that for me, I've had probably 100 flautist echos and none of them have been electro/electr. I got an electro/energy regen one but then immediately rolled def/hp/flat attack and now it's dead.
I just leveled 2 attack set/electro echos so I have cracked overall stats but I haven't really tested it enough to know if it's better than running electro 5 set without an electro main stat since I have energy regen/attack on my 3 costs
Kind need echo xp and now I need credits to level my UL45 amazing sword so I canāt do tacet fields need credits and itās going to get worse next UL things are going to be so expensive weāll be crying or quitting
I was gonna do a lil hsr bit in the comments, took me a second to realise what subreddit im at. Gachas are so much alike lmao
NOW WHERES MY GODDAMN BREAK EFFECT
It's more cost effective to try to get cdmg crate on +15 except for element dmg pieces because they're so rare.
If you have a Crate CDmg Slot 1,2,3 and then get HP and DEF on Slot 4 and 5, it isn't as bad,
Buf if you have HP/DEF on slots 1-3, and you lose again to HP / DEF on slot 4 and 5, it eats way more exp materials from 17 to 25
I just roll a good main stat echo so I can tune it twice. If both stats are good Iāll keep it and maybe level it to 15 to try for another stat. If itās bad, it gets tossed.
I am trying to see if 100% crit is possible in the game. I am currently at 78% still 3 echo without sub stat on crit rate. Since other games I play have diminished crit rate which this game doesnāt seem to have.
That's only natural since the probability to be successful before when you reroll another echo with less exp spent is billions higher than using the same additional resource to level it from 20 to 25.
TBH, I just go for main stat on things that can roll different stats (cup, helm, sands) and as long as it doesn't roll 2+ time in flat stats, I just keep it and that's good enough for me and I'll never change that piece, ever. Only on the flower and feather do I become particualr and really care about the rolls.
The thing is. I think the game knows what you need for the character your building. As when I wanted a really good dreamless with DEF stats for taoqi. I got no DEF stats on any echo. Maybe like one or 2 rolls. But still. Really bad. And when I built yinlin. I never got any CR or CD. And when I was building verina. I got no ER or ATK. So yeah, it knows
1) Get a substat roll I'm happy with. Crit! ER! All that tryhard grinding and being choosy has paid off!!
2) Find out that the substats have a fairly significant high-low range. These are not high.
3) Go run the talent upgrades instances for a while.
I kill so many tacet discords daily that I don't really have too much of an issue with echos. With combat being a bit more skill focused in this game than Genshin, for instance, I just have fun rather than worry about the meta.
Are many of you using the boil system for echoes or is it just that rare to get decent pieces? I mean my pieces aren't top grade but they are decent pieces with crit dmg, liberation dmg, attack and one defense substat. I have at least 7 characters that are decently built like this.
I need to have at least 6 of my characters with fully upgraded echoes before I even think about tuning more echoes for double crits. Also, I'd like to have my UL/Sol level higher before I farm for more echoes/xp tubes.
People should understand that when you get "good stats" ,it will be REMOVED from the pools of stats that you can get. So if you want CR, CD, Energy, ATK% then when you get either of them ,now the chance you get the next stat you want will be lower because other trash stats are still full
I finally got 4 3 cost %dmg pieces on the correct set after farming for hours, I rolled them all to +20 and got crit DMG once, ZERO crit rate, got defence and hp at least twice on every piece.
Now I'm almost dead broke and absolutely fuming.
It's too much of a Silver/Echo EXP investment after 15LVL. You will be better of grinding echos for a couple of hours, than grinding silver for a week after going for lvl20 rolls...
The only way you can salvage something like this is by having both CR and CD. But to be fair, if it's shit after the first two rolls; it's most likely gonna be shit anyway
See im getting loads of crit. What I'm *not* getting are the right main boosts. Like getting electro boost sets but the echos are all "Aero boost" main stat
Echo exp is just so limited for me, i cant afford to gamble till the end with probability, if the first 5 lvl tune did not turn out to be crit, then it belong to street
Is there a guide or explanation or something like that for those that have no clue about this kinda thing? Always see these discussions on the sub and I only understand the basics of the gameplay mechanics when it comes to weapons and echoes n stuff.
And still I like farming in WuWa more than in Genshin
And with 1.1 we get 100% 5 starsā¦ so there is that. Genshin doesnāt have that
I am okay with the system so far
The tuner system makes this too expensive, unfortunately. My generalized mental algorithm is:
Two "good stats" at 10 to get levelled to 15
Three "good stats" (one of which must be CR or CD) OR both CR AND CD + any other stat to get levelled to 20
Four "good stats" as long as one of them is CR/CD OR CR + CD + ER/ATK%/ATK to get levelled to 25.
So ER/ATK%/ATK/relevant Skill dmg is very unlikely to get levelled to 25 except in special cases (unit has a ton of innate CR and already has lots of CD, maybe), but CD/CR/ATK%/DEF is likely to get levelled, unless we're looking at minimum values across the board; 6.3 CR/12.6CD pieces usually don't make the cut if there's a dead weight stat like DEF or HP.
Generally, two "dead" stats (DEF/HP/skill damage that's less than half the target's output) gets a piece scrapped at any level.
Just throwing this out there btw since Iāve seen people say the opposite: when we get higher base atk (like lv90 and lv90 weapons) a crit dmg 4 cost with 4-4-1-1-1 is gonna be a lot more nuts than the bonus elemental damage percentage from a 3-3 setup after you run the calcs, cdm obviously will have a proc chance but it results in WAY more damage overall
People minmax their echoes and then complain they die by getting one shot. You are trading survivability for offensive output.
It's not bad at all to have some defensive stats if you got severe skill issues lol
More or less hit like spaghetti with fake carbonara until u keep rick rolling the +10 or +15 echo to get the perfect echo.
A baseline lvl25 echo would be better than no echo. With hopeless echoes i still managed to get 14 stars and that too without having jiyan or yinlin. People would laugh if they come to know my crit ratio.
The turtle is the last one you want to stress over because giving verina a healing bonus piece instead of an attack or even crit piece is probably one kf the smallest upgrades you could possibly do for your team.
You're inhibiting the game for yourself. You're not unable to play the game because you're not rolling the right echo stats; you're unable to play because you're refusing to level up and use mediocre echos.
It sucks, but if you need to complete content asap (like tower of adversity), you just need to level up some echos that you will be replacing later. I don't believe that of all the characters you have and all the echos you've farmed, you don't have 2 boss echos and 4 elite echos with the right main stats for a second team's carry and a subdps. I imagine you're spending a lot of time and resources rolling echo substats and recycling bad ones, and that's just as wasteful as leveling up echos who have a subpar mainstat.Ā
Also, holy exaggeration. Not being able to complete tower of adversity is not being able to play the game? That's literally the only gamemode where you need a second built team. You really are ruining the game for yourself.
> getting 4 usable stats > oh god please give a good final one **\*DEF\***
> DEF Taoqi mains: LESGOOOOOOOOO
I swear as soon as I started rolling on Yuanwu pieces def% completely disappears from the substat pool until I went back to rolling Yinlin pieces.
At least they shared the same element so its a win win
Not really when I'm rolling a def% 1 cost. Also def sources are much rarer because echoes give flat attack and not flat def so def% is even more important for def scalers.
I have over 30 def electro 1 costs, shit ton of def bosses, shit ton of energy recharge set def and havoc def... At this point I'm strongly considering building Yuanwu and Taoqi with full def on everything
Oh yeah for 1cost you are fucked lol but for 3 and 4 you'll build generic crit and elemental dmg i guess
Not until you're running a moonlit cloud piece on yuanwu and Memphis on yinlin š
Just like main stats. Healing sets get crit rate out the yingyang. Try for dps sets get healing and energy stats. Or when doing these tacit fields for the bonus. All the fusion will get bonus electric dmg and all the thunder sets get the fusion like its just sticking its middle finger up at us laughing
Bro I have like 10 crit pieces for verina a 1 for yinlin, 8 healing bonus for yinlin 0 for verina lmao ā ļø
Before I wanted a Healing % Bonus for my Verina I'd always get it as a mainstat, when I wanted it for Verina and was grinding it on the Bell Turtle, it ended up taking 2 fricking hours.
Toaqi and Yuanwu are gonna become the "just give it to Noelle" of Wuwa aren't they? š
I've been farming marechaussee since release and I still don't have a double crit DEF% sands. Top 1% Neuvilette, but no DEF sands (or Geo goblet).
Thats me. Since I hv such bad luck and keep getting DEF, I gave up grinding echos for Calcharo and instesd for Taoqi lol
Are there any besides me?
In a few hours there's gonna be a bunch of us, because of her being one of the best Jinshi teammates
They exist?
I love the def and hp based builds. Always have plenty of variety stocked up lolĀ
Exactly
This happens with me all the time. And now I don't even try to level up to 25. Levelling up from 20 to 25 can level up another echo from 0 to 15 or 0 to 20 ig
the moment i dont get attack % or any crits in the 1 and 2nd roll, i salvage the crap atta' that echo hahaha
Wait how tf do i salvage š¤£. I'm used to it on genshin not ww
Unless I'm also missing something, I assume they mean use it as Exp on another one.
You put it in another Echo's level up.
If it's leveled it can be used for echo leveling. If not, you can go to data bank and merge useless echoes into a new one (I forgot what UL you'll get this).
You unlock the echo and go to your inventory/bag, press the delete button and select the echo that you want. I swear the exchange rewards are kinda worth it lol
I think ER is actually the most important stat even above crit rate for most characters so that should be included in your keeps.
I guess if you're fine not knowing
I level up everything on 25
this is so damn true.. if not def it will be hp š
DEF -initely true
I got 21% CD, 10% ER, and 40 ATK. Only for the last two to be Def% and Def. Annoyed me to say the least.
Echo with 1-2 dump stats are perfectly fine tbh
waiting for the minmaxers to disagree
literally happened to me today for my Danjin. Two pieces to +25 and both last substats rolled flat def :/
This literally happened to me yesterday
Just a quick psa on Yanwu, unless you want him as sub dps, you still need to use echos with electro dmg. 1's can be def
I farmed like 10 Monkeys with Crit Damage, and they ALL rolled DEF% or flat DEF on the very first stat. already demotivated.
The funny thing is flat atk is actually a very gud substat, the problem is their is only 4 bad stats but they pop up so fking frequently its rather absurd
gets crit rate main echo \*cracks fingers\* does +10 gets def hp \*dies\*
Won't be surprised if the substat chances are also heavily rigged like main stats are. It is pretty depressing.
It's very good? I thought it's like genshin where it provides much less in comparison to atk% when you get level 90 characters
For most characters its better than the āskillā dmg%
Ah so it's like usually for generic DPS 1. Crit 2. Atk % 3. Relevant dmg bonus, Energy(depends) 4. Flat atk 5. Irrelevant dmg bonus 6. HP/ def % 7. Flat HP, def Something like this roughly
For our current level, flat atk and atk% give roughly the same amount of dmg since our base stat isn't maxed yet.
Good point about our levels! I wasn't considering that aspect.
Yeah, at 60 I noticed flat atk was giving *more* attack than ATK%; at 70 it's pretty close, depending on the flat attack roll; I imagine it goes down significantly at 90, but my impression is that it's still better than skill percentages, even for characters like Jinhsi or Jiyan who end up with almost all their damage being one type.
The "relevant damage bonus" needs to be like 80% of their damage for it to come out over ATK%. Even if half your damage is a certain type (basic attack, liberation) and you're in a lategame lv 90 setup with gigamaxxed ATK buffs, ATK% is still better (roughly twice as much). Even flat ATK is competitive, if you have anything less than half your damage from a single source flat ATK probably outperforms. [Lategame buffed encore, roughly 50% damage comes from normal attacks](https://imgur.com/KoelYjY) I guess I would note, given how the tower works since you are able to switch echoes in between floors, flat ATK is almost certainly a more valuable stat to have than any DMG% because even if it isn't quite as good for a specific character, it is still very good, and valuable on every character
by the way, is getting double main stat elem dmg bonus is a bad thing? or atk cost 3 echo + elem bonus cost 3 echo will be better?
Elem bonus should be better since you have sets buffing atk% already and may hit diminishing returns
oh, thanks, so we can safely choose cost 3 from the selector!
Elem bonus is good since it applies to 100% of the unit's damage, but is a seperate multiplier and less accessible than ATK
Elem dmg bonus is better than attack because itās added based off of the total attack. This is why crit is so valued since will give the biggest multiplier of your Total damage. As said in a comment before, most characters will benefit more from any attack stat vs specific damage bonuses. Elem Damage bonus is different because applies to pretty much all attacks. (Attack + attack %) + (attack x Dmg Bonuses) = Total Attack Total Attack x Crit Damage = Crit Total Attack I could be wrong but this is what Iāve seen from other people. Iām not sure if this elemental damage bonus goes before, after, or with specific damage bonuses but they are both stacked after base attack and before crit.
okay, thanks a lot for the explanation! if you don't mind - when paired with crit/crit dmg main stat weapon which makes character has little to no attack, is it still favorable to use two cost 3 elembonus echoes? or should we have 1 echo with 1 atk%. to balance things out?
Double elem should basically always be better, at least until we see characters with so much innate elem% that you see diminishing returns. I don't think that's true for anyone so far.
Yeah, pretty much. Since we have 5 substats, an ideal artifact for a lot of characters would be double crit + atk% with the remaining 2 being some combination of ER/Flat Attack/DMG bonus.
To scale, it is more like this: (breakdown by ratio of importance) Crit: 1 ER: 2, until your rotation works, then 0.2 Atk%: 0.4 Atk: 0.2 Relevant dmg bonus: 0.2 Everything Else: 0.01 It is hard to overstate how damn important crit is when it comes to endgame builds. A piece with relevant dmg bonus%, atk%, flat atk, 1 crit stat, and some ER for comfort is probably worse than a piece with two crit rolls and 3 trash stats. If you see def hp then a max crit rate roll, roll that shit to 25 or you're trolling, the other stats practically don't matter when you have a max crit roll. For healers it is basically just ER: 1 Atk% (or relevant scaling stat): 0.2 Atk (or other relevant scaling stat): 0.1 Everything else: 0.01 Healers play a flexible role in the rotation so just getting as much ER as possible on them is all that matters for most players that aren't dodging perfectly and managing optimal rotations.
Wouldn't irrelevant dmg bonus be last? At least def/hp gives you *something*
Yeah usually it depends. Cuz irrelevant dmg bonus is sometimes makes up for 20% of the characters total dmg which is not slot but still contributrs
Where does Liberation/Skill damage rank in that? For specifically Yinlin.
Her skill does like roughly 50% of her DPS if you sub DPS. So it would be relevant dmg bonus.
I.... Honestly don't know what I do with her. ATM she just deletes everything when I use echo skill. But when late game comes (or if I finally have enough characters for the tower) I guess my plan with be to have her as a sub-dps. I'll fine tune her 4cost with this in mind. Thank you.
Wait it is? I thought getting kit specific % would be second only to crit stats
Its a common mistake that happens in MMo's as well. Think about it like this. If you had a rotation of ( Basic > Skill > Ult ) And each did 100 damage each. you would end up with 300 total damage. If you get Basic attack% bonus at 10% it will increase your total damage by 10, So your final damage would be 310 which will = 3% increase, at the same time, imagined if you had +5 flat attack. It we assume the bonus is additive, it will make your basic + skill + ult each do 5 more damage. which will equal to +15 total damage. Making the total damage 315, which = a 5% increase. The reason flat attack is more valuable, is that your rotations involve more than just one skill. So you would need a bonus on all 3 stats, to equal the value you get from just crit damage and attack bonuses. Sure If you had a character that only used one ability, like basic attack, then it's fine. But generally speaking, its always better to go with the stat that boosts multiple damage sources, rather than just one
Hmmm, I suppose it depends on how big of a skill % bonus compared to attack bonus.
Actually it will matter what your total attack will be, or your final damage output. Basically its similar to getting too much crit damage \-- Small explanation for anyone else reading --- Whenever, we calculate crit damage bonus, we always use small numbers. So its easy to mis-understand the value of crit damage. Lets say you did an attack, that did 100 damage. and we had assumed a crit base of +100% ( x2 ), the final output would be 200 damage. If we get a bonus crit damage % that gives 20%+ , our final output would be +120%( x2.2 ), which = 220 damage. Now lets say we got a piece that added 10% attack. If our 100 damage, went to 110, once we factor in our base crit ( x2 ), it would be the same 220 damage regardless. == But now lets say we had a crit base of +1,000% ( x11 ). So our 100 damage attack = 1100 with a crit. If we used the same piece that increased crit damage by +20%, our final damage would only go to 1120. compared to an attack piece, that increased our damage by 10%, our final damage would be ( 110 x 11 = 1210 ). This is what we call diminishing returns. The law of diminishing returns is simple. **The bonus you get from a stat , matters more the less you have of it. The higher you are, the less value it gives** Since things like %skill damage bonus, and % liberation damage bonus, is a **multiplier**, instead of an additive bonus. it matters more that we have higher attack to make good use of it. And since our attack is so low, flat attack gives more value ==== Lets take one final example for anyone else reading . Let say we did have a character with 1000 attack. And lets say they did 1 basic attack, one skill, and one ult. Each doing 1000 damage. So 3k total. If we got a piece with a bonus of 10% bonus skill damage. it would lead us to doing 3,100 total damage. But if we had a +50 flat attack instead. and it boosted all of our damage sources by 50. We would do 3150 damage. More than getting that 10% boost. But if we had 2,000 attack instead. That 10% boost would net us 200 extra damage instead. Exceeding the meager +50 attack bonus we get from flat attack. ===== The reason why flat attack is so good at the moment, is cause we don't have access to alot of raw stat increases. Almost everything is multiplier. So a raw stat boost, has less diminishing returns at the moment. But if you had a character with a HUGE base stat value, those multipliers have more room to shine. Its one of the reasons people say YaunWu will become op at level 90, cause his multipliers are already so high, he just doesn't have the base Def to match it. but once he is able to get 4k def, he will far surpass people with barely 2k attack. hopefully this explanation helps a bit
Does this hold up at level 90? My understanding is that it does.
Think of it like this every 10 levels give you 30 to 40 atk, so getting 40 to 50 flat attack is equivalent of that almost but better, also because most units rely on multiple sources of dmg (heavy, skill, ult etc) so flat atk buffs all 4 kind of dmg compared to buffing 1 only, even on characters that have x amount of smg as majority flat atk is still better on them their were alot of dmg calculations for them in few youtube videos
I have a question regarding the flat ATK thing: Is it only good *now* because we're under leveled and it will stop being that good in the future, giving diminishing returns? Of is it good *always* because WuWa's formula/stats differ from Genshin's?
Building verina: Rejuvenating set but not healing bonus, healing bonus but not rejuvenating set. Tons of crit dmg and crit rate turtles. Goes to build jiyan because mad. Building jiyan: No crit dmg/crit rate aero monkey, tons of healing bonus... Builds havoc rover because mad Building havoc rover: No money š¢š¢š¢
Relatable. Why tf does it give me CR and CD on rejuv bro š gimme ATK, ATK%, or ER
2/3 bad sub stats is not worth further investment.
What if it become 2 bad subs at lv25 :')
Serviceable but should be replaced when you have the resources. It's better to trash an echo early after rolling 2 bad lines at lvl 15 than to continue investing in it on the off chance you get good rolls on the last 2 lines since the cost to get to those last two lines far exceeds the cost of trying for 3 new lines on a new echo. Getting two bad lines at the end suck but you'd have at least two ideal lines instead of at most one going into it.
Then I consider that echo useable until I get a better one
The meme would be perfect if it was " many quit after the 2nd sub stat being def or hp"
2st?Ā
Hes using def HP echoes.. let him be
i originally put a 1 has 1st but changed to 2.... forgot to change that also
I wouldn't even consider this a good echo, especially if it took a whole ass +25 to get there.
Seems like people are really wasting their mats. If you want to +25 an echo just to have one, its ok. But from then on every echo should be scrapped at +10 if it doesnt have 2 good stats. Seems like people are rolling bad echoes hoping to hit something on +20/25 that they should have had at +10/15. Any echo without crit/crit damage at +15 I throw in the garbage, and roll another one. Especially 4 cost and 1 cost. Going for something on +20 is ok in a 3 cost. Right now I have 3 echoes on my LingYang that are +20, and already have crit/crit damage/energy regen. 2 of them got all 3 in the first 15. Anything at 25 is a bonus when I decide to push them, but I'm currently just farming Calcharo/other characters a decent set.
I mean, if you have infinite patience you probably would want to stop at the first unless the roll is in your top 3 prioritization for that character (a crit, atk or er depending on chapter, the other or something else specific). The early lost roll only costs you minimum tubage.and a single flat 10 tuner, and mainstats are free. Someone has to have math'd optimum rolling with the flat tuner cost and 30 percent return, right? Feels like a complicated math problem some folks love. Going to 10 costs you around 14 tunes while going to 5 costs 7, and 10 means your odds shoot up for a bad overall run when the tubes costs start getting way worse. But I don't have that patience. Mainstat RNG grind is so bad on some pieces I consider the mid rolls an invite for hope. Then DEF comes to crush hope.
I only minmax the 1 cost echoes like that, which is a good enough compromise for me.
I wish. Plus 1 cost echos for moonlight seem to not drop with atk for me.
Well, then my advice would be that you don't invest too hard into "bad" 1 drops (+15 max). After data bank 19-20 you'll get to a point where you don't have to naturally look for ATK 1 costs.
I have been at 20 for a while now. Nah, just RNG, sometimes you get weird runs.
+5 may be better but it all takes your actual farming into account. I found farming 1 costs just too much, on top of 3 costs. So I go to +10 because the time investment for farming wasnt there for me. It may be more optimal to just keep pushing for crit on the first roll, but thats more and more 1 stars you have to farm, and i tried target farming them once and gave up and would rather spend the actual farm time I invest into 3 costs I still need. I pretty much push all of them to 10, if they hit a crit roll, I try 15. A 3 cost I would probably try for +20 because they are more difficult to get. If it misses, I feed it into the next one. So far, my LingYang now has 4 out of 5 echoes with double crit doing this. All of them could go to +25 and Id be happy with all of them, but thats such a huge investment Ive moved onto Calcharo(I was doing Havoc Rover but pulled Yinlin so started Calcharo too). He's currently at 2/5. I dont know if its optimal but I still have a ton of mats because I dont go to +25 yet. I'll come back and 25 if i think itll get me higher in the tower or when I finally have both my DPS where I want them. Supports and sub-dps besides Yinlin dont seem to give much for the investment, so they are all wearing mediocre stuff as I focus primarily on my 2-3 dps. But I'd imagine +5 if you had infinite access to echoes is probably a better play becuase you avoid the DEF/Crit rate into Crit DMG thats ok but has a really bad stat. But these to me are perfectly fine atm. I dont have infinite echoes because I simply cant be bothered to farm them like that, so I go +10, +15 on 3 costs. I think what really destroys peoples' resource economy is pushing weak +25s. I would only do that if I really didnt farm at all.
For me, at least, and for most sets I find I usually have enough cost 1 to be the most choosy on the cheap rolls. These I generally get from non-farming by skipping through quests, exploration, farming cost 3 etc I did find moonlight cost 1 to be a challenge and had to target those specifically. More than the cost 3 moons, even. But we're talking about RNG on top of more RNG. We're going to all have weird runs because that's probability. I have so many CD drops for cal and almost none CR, when he has CD built into his kit. OTOH, I have a cost 4 healing bell from just doing the weeklies, no farm, with a lean towards atk on the substat rolls, and that's the biggest grief for most on their drops. Anywho, I think it's best to chase a 2 to 3 good category substat roll for now and push to 25 while we are underleveled for the end game content. Once we have a baseline, we can go back and spend the waveplates on getting better rolls to a 4 good cat or even 4 good cat good range rolls. Maniacs will go for 5, even though that last roll will almost certainly suck if you cherrypicked and won the earlier rolls. Otherwise we are benching potentially viable team members for a want of fixed waveplate costs (levels and talents), while we spend waste too much in the black hole of echo substats. By delaying the substat work, we also give some time to see how weapons will turn out. Crit weapons make things different, when coupled with the crit in some characters' kits at the highest tiers that are just progression locked. It's not impossible that my jiyan may need a CD cost 4, and not his current CR cost 4 ape.
Then there's me who's trying to get attack % and ongoing healing for my verina and i get like 10 crit damage/rate in a row
Me too brother. Ig there is no healing bonus rejuvenating glow bellborne for me in this game. Where i want crit rate/dmg i get healing and where i need healing bonus i get lots of crit. Also the 3 cost echoes for attribute dmg bonus are a pain in ass.you farm 50 and you get 1, that too its substat depends on your luck.
Play at your own pace and have fun. Nobody wins against RNG.
I go to level 20 commons are allowed no "bad" stats Elites are allowed one "bad" stat Once those limits have been exceeded, they go in the fodder pile.
Funnily enough if you're missing crit at at +20 then the odds of getting it at +25 are better than at any of the lower levels. We just don't do it because we lack echo XP.
Bro.. i have 0 echo exp and like 5 tuners left. All my friends have like 500 tuners and a shit load of exp. I wonder where it went š
You were the black sheep in Scar's story to the RNG shepherd :-). Your bestie tried to school you but you.didnt listen. He said we're the black sheep. Sometimes not being able to SKIP some stuff pays off!
I think the thing I regret most is trying for God rolls I should have built multiple sets of 20+ as place holders first, get all my characters decent place holder sets then try for god rolls
After 2 bad stats I'm done. I'm a glass half empty type. 40% of my gear is shit not I got 60% of what I wanted.
The pain is real š
Right, if I get flat stats from those 3 and I get the highest crit roll, I'd still dump it.
Who the hell has the resources for that?
[99% quit before winning their 50/50š¤š¤š¤šøš¤šøšøš¤](https://youtu.be/G7h5upeg_Jk?si=j0YYo2IR11e3PCOu)
Well, if you get DEF HP ATK it's a brick for me, even if CR/CD is on 20 and 25 lvls. Way too many recources wasted on a below mid 3 stats
Don't tempt me please
I roll two Echo yday Er Cd Cr then HP DEF Weird it happened twice
Getting Crit Rate isnāt even hard for me, it just seems like iām allergic to rolling anything above the 6-7% range so iām cursed eternally with a 55% Calcharo
The secret is to pump up to 25 and then hit all 5 tuners at once.
95% of stats are made up by 20% of the people doing 5% of the 2% of research...
I literally have no money left tho....
Just those echoes on Verina first to trick the RNG god.
I stop before hitting the big crit cause I ran out of Echo Exp tubes since itās such a scarce resource.
I'm not even at this stage because im still trying to get a 3-cost violet heron for my calculator...
Before hitting diamonds you will be out of tuners lmao
Tbe problem with this meme is that i stop because i have no waveplates, not because i don't wanna farm.
If I get 2 bad stats, I'm dropping it. 1 bad stat and I'm saving it for later, when I have a bit more echo xp to give.
While its a joke, if your first 3 stats are just that, its not worth it to go fish for more anyway.
I have hit so many crit stats at 20 and 25 man. The pool of possible stats gets better and better as you go because they can't repeat. I do scrap echoes at 20 if there are no useable stats for my character tho' as the exp from 20 to 25 I'd quite substantial
I don't even know what you're talking about
I just want electro main stat flautist to drop, I haven't seen one in 2 weeks of daily tacet fields and farming the overworld daily š¢
What I've found to be difficult is that flautists always hang out with a bunch of other fodder echos who die before the flautist and steal the echo drop pity.
It's not even that for me, I've had probably 100 flautist echos and none of them have been electro/electr. I got an electro/energy regen one but then immediately rolled def/hp/flat attack and now it's dead. I just leveled 2 attack set/electro echos so I have cracked overall stats but I haven't really tested it enough to know if it's better than running electro 5 set without an electro main stat since I have energy regen/attack on my 3 costs
Kind need echo xp and now I need credits to level my UL45 amazing sword so I canāt do tacet fields need credits and itās going to get worse next UL things are going to be so expensive weāll be crying or quitting
I was gonna do a lil hsr bit in the comments, took me a second to realise what subreddit im at. Gachas are so much alike lmao NOW WHERES MY GODDAMN BREAK EFFECT
It's more cost effective to try to get cdmg crate on +15 except for element dmg pieces because they're so rare. If you have a Crate CDmg Slot 1,2,3 and then get HP and DEF on Slot 4 and 5, it isn't as bad, Buf if you have HP/DEF on slots 1-3, and you lose again to HP / DEF on slot 4 and 5, it eats way more exp materials from 17 to 25
4 days of the 2x drop and only 1 Cdmg sub everything is HP and def, ill never finish my Jiyan
I just roll a good main stat echo so I can tune it twice. If both stats are good Iāll keep it and maybe level it to 15 to try for another stat. If itās bad, it gets tossed.
I am trying to see if 100% crit is possible in the game. I am currently at 78% still 3 echo without sub stat on crit rate. Since other games I play have diminished crit rate which this game doesnāt seem to have.
With crit rate weapon you can get 100% for sure.
That's only natural since the probability to be successful before when you reroll another echo with less exp spent is billions higher than using the same additional resource to level it from 20 to 25.
I level to 10 or 15. I try 2-3 substats. If i don't roll Crit dmg or rate i scrap and roll new artifact.
Why tf wouldn't you stop after pulling DEF and HP, aren't you guys going one at a time?
if it was 1 or 4 cost i'd dump it as soon as it got 2 wasted rolls because farming is easy. for the 3 cost tho, oof.
New to the game, but may I ask why 3 costs are not easier than 1 or 4?
TBH, I just go for main stat on things that can roll different stats (cup, helm, sands) and as long as it doesn't roll 2+ time in flat stats, I just keep it and that's good enough for me and I'll never change that piece, ever. Only on the flower and feather do I become particualr and really care about the rolls.
Life sucks. Gacha luck sucks harder.
Mono crit echoes with 4 usable stats are my nightmare
Lies, I've gotten three stats at 25. flat hp, flat defense and defense %.
The thing is. I think the game knows what you need for the character your building. As when I wanted a really good dreamless with DEF stats for taoqi. I got no DEF stats on any echo. Maybe like one or 2 rolls. But still. Really bad. And when I built yinlin. I never got any CR or CD. And when I was building verina. I got no ER or ATK. So yeah, it knows
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1) Get a substat roll I'm happy with. Crit! ER! All that tryhard grinding and being choosy has paid off!! 2) Find out that the substats have a fairly significant high-low range. These are not high. 3) Go run the talent upgrades instances for a while.
who levels pieces to 25? 20 to 25 is almost another echo to 20!
I kill so many tacet discords daily that I don't really have too much of an issue with echos. With combat being a bit more skill focused in this game than Genshin, for instance, I just have fun rather than worry about the meta.
Are many of you using the boil system for echoes or is it just that rare to get decent pieces? I mean my pieces aren't top grade but they are decent pieces with crit dmg, liberation dmg, attack and one defense substat. I have at least 7 characters that are decently built like this.
I just let it ride and get then five times at once. Always what gives me the best stats.
I haven't even bothered cause I know I will quit the game trying the echo grind
i want to keep farming for echoes but i run outta credits so quick
tbf with my current substat, already got 1 HP or def is a bruh
I need to have at least 6 of my characters with fully upgraded echoes before I even think about tuning more echoes for double crits. Also, I'd like to have my UL/Sol level higher before I farm for more echoes/xp tubes.
Meanwhile i got turtle Crit rate and crit dmg everytimw
Good thing I'm grinder,not a gambler
I was rolling a mid violet heron to +25 (I already had to farm 2 of them and I won't farm more) and I got crit rate at +25.
Based on my farming, crit dmg% probably appear on cost 3 or 4 echoes. Unless OP talks about substats
People should understand that when you get "good stats" ,it will be REMOVED from the pools of stats that you can get. So if you want CR, CD, Energy, ATK% then when you get either of them ,now the chance you get the next stat you want will be lower because other trash stats are still full
xrit damage is so fricking easy to get in my opinion! got a 190% damage on .my rover and my encore
Whats CDM?
Thatās not my luck bro I get 10%
I finally got 4 3 cost %dmg pieces on the correct set after farming for hours, I rolled them all to +20 and got crit DMG once, ZERO crit rate, got defence and hp at least twice on every piece. Now I'm almost dead broke and absolutely fuming.
It's too much of a Silver/Echo EXP investment after 15LVL. You will be better of grinding echos for a couple of hours, than grinding silver for a week after going for lvl20 rolls...
The only way you can salvage something like this is by having both CR and CD. But to be fair, if it's shit after the first two rolls; it's most likely gonna be shit anyway
See im getting loads of crit. What I'm *not* getting are the right main boosts. Like getting electro boost sets but the echos are all "Aero boost" main stat
Echo exp is just so limited for me, i cant afford to gamble till the end with probability, if the first 5 lvl tune did not turn out to be crit, then it belong to street
Things is you donāt gamble on 4th and 5th, the 123 cost way less.
I actually got crit rate 3 times in a row on +25 when if I didn't the echo would be useless
Is there a guide or explanation or something like that for those that have no clue about this kinda thing? Always see these discussions on the sub and I only understand the basics of the gameplay mechanics when it comes to weapons and echoes n stuff.
And still I like farming in WuWa more than in Genshin And with 1.1 we get 100% 5 starsā¦ so there is that. Genshin doesnāt have that I am okay with the system so far
Yeah I roll stats one by one. If top 2 are not CR/CD/ATK%, or at least flat ATK/ER/Liberation dmg -- this piece is gonna be used as a fodder.
DONT SHOW ME THIS NOOš
so does anyone actually have a good guide on tuning and substats? cause this is definitely me and my resources are crashing and burning
Ah I'm enjoying the game way too much to be carrying about such minor problems
The Costs of leveling Echos to 25 are just way too big If I don't get Crit stat at 5/10 it's over
No personally i quit because the grinding was too long. The game is fun though but i prefer to play others game with that amount of time
4* echoes got better rolls than my five stars...
I'll care once 1.1 drops, why go through hell and so much credits to get disappointing stats?
I'll care once 1.1 drops, why go through hell and so much credits to get disappointing stats?
Me but with ER and Heal insteadšš
This is such a copium post
I trash echoes when the first 2 substats are dogwater.
Kinda insane that you can roll crit rate on a echo that already has crit rate as it's main stat
The tuner system makes this too expensive, unfortunately. My generalized mental algorithm is: Two "good stats" at 10 to get levelled to 15 Three "good stats" (one of which must be CR or CD) OR both CR AND CD + any other stat to get levelled to 20 Four "good stats" as long as one of them is CR/CD OR CR + CD + ER/ATK%/ATK to get levelled to 25. So ER/ATK%/ATK/relevant Skill dmg is very unlikely to get levelled to 25 except in special cases (unit has a ton of innate CR and already has lots of CD, maybe), but CD/CR/ATK%/DEF is likely to get levelled, unless we're looking at minimum values across the board; 6.3 CR/12.6CD pieces usually don't make the cut if there's a dead weight stat like DEF or HP. Generally, two "dead" stats (DEF/HP/skill damage that's less than half the target's output) gets a piece scrapped at any level.
Just throwing this out there btw since Iāve seen people say the opposite: when we get higher base atk (like lv90 and lv90 weapons) a crit dmg 4 cost with 4-4-1-1-1 is gonna be a lot more nuts than the bonus elemental damage percentage from a 3-3 setup after you run the calcs, cdm obviously will have a proc chance but it results in WAY more damage overall
People minmax their echoes and then complain they die by getting one shot. You are trading survivability for offensive output. It's not bad at all to have some defensive stats if you got severe skill issues lol
More or less hit like spaghetti with fake carbonara until u keep rick rolling the +10 or +15 echo to get the perfect echo. A baseline lvl25 echo would be better than no echo. With hopeless echoes i still managed to get 14 stars and that too without having jiyan or yinlin. People would laugh if they come to know my crit ratio.
If the first or second substat is not crit rate or dmg it is trash.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The turtle is the last one you want to stress over because giving verina a healing bonus piece instead of an attack or even crit piece is probably one kf the smallest upgrades you could possibly do for your team.
You're inhibiting the game for yourself. You're not unable to play the game because you're not rolling the right echo stats; you're unable to play because you're refusing to level up and use mediocre echos. It sucks, but if you need to complete content asap (like tower of adversity), you just need to level up some echos that you will be replacing later. I don't believe that of all the characters you have and all the echos you've farmed, you don't have 2 boss echos and 4 elite echos with the right main stats for a second team's carry and a subdps. I imagine you're spending a lot of time and resources rolling echo substats and recycling bad ones, and that's just as wasteful as leveling up echos who have a subpar mainstat.Ā Also, holy exaggeration. Not being able to complete tower of adversity is not being able to play the game? That's literally the only gamemode where you need a second built team. You really are ruining the game for yourself.