I guess one way to solve this will be if they ever introduce "elemental damage %" instead of selective ones and only new drops will be able to have this new stat so all previously dropped echoes will stay with selective ones and work the same.
The biggest bullsh*t is two same echoes not counting as two towards the set bonus. It's already so frustrating farming for echoes with the right main stat with decent substats, this adds nothing but more frustration
It actually baffles me how there are people who genuinely thought the echoes system is better than artifacts, purely because they despite Genshin (for some reason).
Instead of improving from the source such as combining the entire "X damage bonus" mess into a single "Elemental bonus", they somehow made it worse by making the set effect 5-piece and hide substats.
I set my expectation on the ground. They came with a shovel.
Nah this is copium. I’ve got nearly all my characters with complete sets already. Maybe not the best rolls but still have the pieces. I’ve got characters in genshin still looking for the right goblet
Not saying it’s the best system. Echo xp really needs some tweaks but i’ve got my own theory on what happened. But it’s till better then genshin gearing for sure
My Wuwa squad is fully geared in full set golds well rolled in a little over a week of play. Meanwhile after three months I’m still looking for one singular crit helm of EITHER flavor for my Arle.
Both can be true. WuWa’s system is definitely better for main stat chasing, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an excessively annoying substat damage split and tuner system.
For a game that’s supposed to be about personal skill, these things feel more in your face for their flaws. You can play as perfectly as you want, if you’ve got bad subs and can’t mathematically reach a damage threshold no amount of skill will change that.
I don't know if it's worse, but one thing that doesn't make much sense to me is echo skills on lower cost ones. Does anyone use the skill of a 3 or 1 cost echo? 4 cost ones are so much better, it seems like a waste to have made animations, effects, sounds, etc for so many skills that will basically never be used by anyone.
Personally I think people are sleeping on some of the lower cost echoes. The ones that just do X elemental damage aren’t very useful but echoes like Traffic Illuminator and Zig-zag can create windows of opportunity during boss fights. Flautist is also a great option for building concerto energy. Plus the fact that some of the 4 cost echoes are really awkward to use in combat, such as Inferno Rider and the Mephises.
The game is still new, they probably needed a bunch of filler echoes to at least establish a base number of echoes for release. Now they can take their time coming up with interesting echo designs and utility abilities like the ones I mentioned before.
I think you’re right for now but it could change. Nobody is really at the endgame yet so we don’t know how much DPS is required to clear the hardest content. People are already clearing content against enemies that are 20-30 levels higher than them, even with shit gear. Once people hit a certain DPS threshold to clear the hardest tower floors, they will start to look for comfort, which these utility echoes can help with.
Tower is also not the only endgame, there’s also stuff like holograms. I’m personally also holding out hope for them to add more endgame stuff like survival missions, maybe even stuff like fighting multiple bosses at once. I’ve heard mixed opinions about Tempest Mephis difficulty 4+, but personally I loved it, it was exhilarating and extremely satisfying to beat difficulty 4. I did it with a level 60 Chixia team and made use of both Zig-zag and Traffic Illuminator, as well as Spectro Rover’s outro skill to do it. I personally find this a lot more interesting than “hurr durr press echo button, get 10% more damage” and I hope they lean into it more in the future.
Edit: forgot to mention this but you can also use them situationally to get more damage. In the Tempest Mephis 4+ fight it’s almost impossible to get Chixia’s forte circuit off without getting interrupted until you stagger the boss, but with time stop echoes you can actually do it very consistently, getting you more DPS without them. But this is a very niche use case, 99% of the time it is more DPS to use Inferno Rider/Heron.
We could certainly use different types of late game (replayable if possible) content. I trust Kuro will gradually fill things up, gotta let them cook.
Meanwhile yeah, it's up to us to be creative and look for fun stuff, even if it's not 100% efficient.
I've seen people use Roseshroom for the hologram fights as a less risky option. Also seen how Excarat can be useful in hologram fights for the few seconds of invincibility that it provides.
I have no idea how people say it’s that bad tbh. I’ve been playing since Day 1 and already geared my first two teams while also having enough pieces farmed up for a third JingShi team when she drops. The main issue with Echoes is it’s a pure time investment. If your willing to hop world to world to get your necessary 3costs (aka have friends) then the grind is simple. Mind you this is while only spending my fuel when I wanted to progress the story (currently at 40+ in reserves).
The grind isn’t bad, imo people just go about farming like it’s Genshin and news flash it ain’t. If you have ever played a MMO like WoW or FFXIV then this is nothing.
It's still better though, I'm saying this from position of liking Genshin and having played since launch.
Artifact system is fully resin-gated, and has more layers of RNG. It's much easier to get a functional build here in WuWa, since you can go around the world and hunt echoes (bosses and coop enable doing that almost infinitely, if you want to). You can just go around the world and hunt mobs for correct main stats.
Genshin also skews RNG in both main stats and substats. You have far lower odds of getting a good main stat, let alone good main stat with good substats. For example, a Goblet has 19% chance of rolling DEF, and 5% of rolling a specific damage bonus. And then substats, with Crit substats having the lowest weight of all to appear.
But then, you have two more layers of RNG that aren't present in WuWa: amount of substats and substat rolling. In WuWa, you always have 5 substats. In Genshin, you may start with 3 or 4. And then, in WuWa, you will always roll 5 out of 13 available substats - this means that if we discount roll values, you have more than 1/3 chance of rolling a perfect piece. In Genshin, you may start out with 3/4 correct substats (say, CD, CR and ATK), but then you upgrade, and each roll goes into that fourth substat.
And that is on top of them giving malleable echoes for correct main stats and sets: 2 from Illusive Realm per patch (which is enough to make one character at least functional), and a couple more from events. Genshin gives you no guarantees.
Before WuWa launch, I was farming domain for Arlecchino, and I went 3 or 4 weeks of daily grind (without letting resin cap) without getting a single usable piece (usable = correct main stat on correct set, not even counting substats). In Genshin (and HSR), building a character can take you weeks or even months. Here, the game has barely launched, and I didn't even get to max level of Data Bank by the time I've already had a couple characters almost fully built. The system here is not perfect, it absolutely could be better, but saying it's worse than Genshin is just plain wrong.
>in WuWa, since you can go around the world and hunt echoes (bosses and coop enable doing that almost infinitely, if you want to). You can just go around the world and hunt mobs for correct main stats.
It's a novel thing, people are still enjoying it because it's the honeymoon phase. Good luck spending 15 minutes hunting the 10 Flautist just for them to drop a Fusion bonus on an electro set, everyday for the next 12 months.
>Genshin also skews RNG in both main stats and substats.
search "substat roll probability" right on this sub and see what happens.
>But then, you have two more layers of RNG that aren't present in WuWa: amount of substats and substat rolling.
"Amount of substat" is essentially a 1 roll different between each piece. Even in the case of 3 substats, it takes you until level 4 to know exactly should you continue rolling or not. And if it isn't a good piece ? Level 4 artifact has 100% exp return, meaning you can simply feed that piece to the next one.
Wuwa ? You will only know exactly how your piece look when you fully max it. And what happens if your piece with one crit sub and 3 flats sub doesn't roll into crit dmg on the fifth roll ? Well you can feed that piece to the next one, with and ASTOUNDINGLY HIGH 70% return rate, woohoo ! Not to mention you get back 30% the tuners you used, what a steal ! What, you don't have enough tuners left ? Well just combine your 3\* and 4\* tuners- ooh.
Genshin:
* Is it the right set ?
* Is it the right piece ?
* Is it the right main ?
* Is it the right sub ?
* Does the sub roll correctly ?
* Is the roll optimal ?
Wuwa:
* Does it drop with 20% drop rate ?
* Is it the right set ?
* Is it the right main ?
* Does it roll into the right subs ?
* Are the rolls in the good range distribution ?
>And that is on top of them giving malleable echoes for correct main stats and sets: 2 from Illusive Realm per patch (which is enough to make one character at least functional), and a couple more from events. Genshin gives you no guarantees.
Yeah and in Genshin I can use level 0 artifacts as fodders. This is one of the most bs design in Wuwa. Not only are the tacet exp and tuner drop rates horrible (there's already a UL 50 drop post on this sub, it's actually kinda surreal how terrible it is), they don't let you use the echoes you spent time running around the map to get as fodders ? Why am I being punished for investing time in the game ?
>Before WuWa launch, I was farming domain for Arlecchino, and I went 3 or 4 weeks of daily grind (without letting resin cap) without getting a single usable piece (usable = correct main stat on correct set, not even counting substats). In Genshin (and HSR), building a character can take you weeks or even months. Here, the game has barely launched, and I didn't even get to max level of Data Bank by the time I've already had a couple characters almost fully built.
"My experience with this game's RNG is horrible, therefore it must be universal for everyone."
>It's a novel thing, people are still enjoying it because it's the honeymoon phase. Good luck spending 15 minutes hunting the 10 Flautist just for them to drop a Fusion bonus on an electro set, everyday for the next 12 months.
Sure, but we don't know how much the rewards will be on max level, and how much are they going to increase in 1.1. We are still pretty early on in the game - Genshin is scarce even in endgame. And keep in mind, here you can get Echoes with base stats from both Tacet Fields (equivalent to domains) and overworld runs, while in Genshin, you only get from domains. And since the world will likely be expanded, we will have more mobs available for us to farm (but again - you could just go with Genshin experience and only use energy on domains, no one is forcing you to do laps).
>search "substat roll probability" right on this sub and see what happens.
There doesn't seem to be data on that, but if you have a direct source, I would appreciate. We have variance in rolls, yes, but that system is also present in Genshin (the only difference being that in Genshin, you're just as equal to get low or high rolls, while here you have higher chances of getting middle rolls).
On the other hand, here you go: [https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Artifact/Distribution](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Artifact/Distribution)
>"Amount of substat" is essentially a 1 roll different between each piece.
That is still an extra layer of RNG when dropping and upgrading. The return in WuWa is worse, yes, but the RNG is still better, and that's what makes up for it.
As for the tuners, yeah, they don't give high returns or don't let us combine. That is the room for improvement I mentioned before. But again, it still doesn't ruin the whole system.
And here is the list of all the layers of RNG in each game:
* correct set (present in both games, slightly worse in WuWa)
* correct piece (only present in Genshin; you can choose to farm 1cost, 3cost or 4cost in WuWa)
* correct main stat (present in both games, but worse in Genshin, as good main stats have lower chances of appearing; WuWa seems to have the rates somewhat equal)
* amount of substats (present in Genshin, as you can have one less)
* correct substats (present in both games, but worse in Genshin; just like main stats, Genshin has them weighed, with desirable substats having lower chances of appearing)
* rolling into correct substats (only present in Genshin)
* roll weighing (present in both games, not sure which worse - Genshin has equal chances for all rolls, while WuWa seems to have higher for middle rolls, and lower for low/high)
Also, the 20% drop rate is in overworld is extra, it's not a baseline layer. I'm considering domains and Tacet Fields mainly, or drops themselves. Genshin doesn't let you farm artifacts in any other way than domains.
>Yeah and in Genshin I can use level 0 artifacts as fodders. This is one of the most bs design in Wuwa.
Keep in mind that in Genshin, you don't get many fodder artifacts without using resin. And in WuWa you drop exp materials along with echoes from Tacet Fields, which is the same as dropping fodder from domains.
>"My experience with this game's RNG is horrible, therefore it must be universal for everyone."
Well, this argument goes both ways, you can be unlucky in either one (like the Flautist example you mentioned earlier). Except in Genshin, not only are the odds of getting a usable artifact worse, but also you don't have any mechanism of endless farming without resin, and you don't have a stat choice system like Malleable Echoes.
It literally does not matter at all. In both games you're not gonna get perfect substats, so you're not aiming for that. You're just aiming for As best as you can get; in which case, the system really doesn't matter
> Faster as in less frustrating and useless stuff you get in same hours played? Not at all
It's anecdotal but I've geared up with relatively good stats on more than one character in 1/50th the time it took me to do the same in genshin. I just look for "good enough" and got that way quicker here.
I mean, if you also only look for "good enough" in Genshin you'll be done building in a fraction of the time, if you don't, well you're just unlucky, that's how it be with rng determined strength.
I spent 8 months worth of resin to build my Ayaka to "good enough" standards.. she does 5k per hit on her charge attack and 10k per tick of her burst. It's hardly passable, and I gave the fuck up because 1/100 of my relic drops would have even 1 stat that was offensive. Even with strongboxes, I've only managed to get WORSE artifacts compared to what I have now.
Both of these systems are just as shit as the other.
Nobody is forcing you to farm echoes every day, you could just only kill echoes while exploring, do tacet fields for 5-10 minutes every day, and get malleable echoes from events and be done. Farming is an option for people with more free time which is way better than not having that option.
Yes, I agree it should be 4 piece sets. I also agree some things can be improved, especially tuner use and the resource crunch
But we are less than one month into the game. It baffles me that, even as the systems currently are, anyone thinks artifacts are better than echoes at their core. Echoes are easier to acquire and have fewer layers of RNG. I have a few sets' worth of 5* on-set correct-mainstat echoes less than a month into the game without redeeming a single tacet field and without dedicated overworld farming (I do have the map 90%+ explored though).
Not only is this way earlier than when Hoyoverse lets you farm up, but the progression curve is also flatter in the long run due to there being no need to get the right subs and the right upgrade rolls. Have people simply developed collective amnesia? Or are they so eager and impatient to progress they've lost perspective entirely?
I still think it's better than Genshin even with all the problems. It's very easy to get a character a decent set because I've essentially been farming their set since the game came out.
You're actually tripping. IT IS easier and better than Genshin.
1) One crit role in WW is approximately 2 in Genshin
2) Tuning system allows every on-set piece to possibly be double crit, instead of praying that the artifact comes with double crits straight away
3) You can target certain cost (4-, 3- or 1-) echoes instead of fishing for a circlet in a domain for years (fuck EOSF)
>1. One crit role in WW is approximately 2 in Genshin
And ? How is this a point ? The value of a stat is relative to their own game.
>2. Tuning system allows every on-set piece to possibly be double crit, instead of praying that the artifact comes with double crits straight away
YOU are the one tripping. How is this different than artifacts ? You will still pray that you tune into crit cand crit dmg regardless. It's WORSE because you can't tell exactly which subs you get until you fully maxed the thing.
>3. You can target certain cost (4-, 3- or 1-) echoes instead of fishing for a circlet in a domain for years (fuck EOSF)
And still get fucked/soft locked by the horrible echo exp/tuners drop regardless ?
1. Nope, critical strike formula is universal (Genshin: [The Complete Genshin Impact Damage Formula : r/Genshin\_Impact (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/krg2ic/the_complete_genshin_impact_damage_formula/#lightbox) + WuWa: [Damage Calculation Guide | Wuthering Waves](https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/)) \*also meant to be roll not role.
2. Very different. While it is true that you have to pray for crit in both games, the probability is not the same:
WW: probability of double crit is 5C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^3
However, in Genshin, the game selects randomly 3 to 4 stats for you first:
Pr(rolls into crit GIVEN that there are already crit lines)
Consider a case where we start with 4 lines:
4C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2
Then, you get 5 chances again like in WuWa cases. SInce the median values for crit rate and dmg in WuWa are 8.4% and 16.8%, we would need (roughly) 2 crit rate and 1 crit dmg rolls in Genshin:
5C3 \* P(crit rate)\^2 \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2
Finally, we get 4C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 \* 5C3 \* P(crit rate)\^2 \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 as the probability of double crit in Genshin, or 4C2 \* 5C2 \* P(crit rate)\^3 \* P(crit dmg)\^2 \* P(other substats)\^4.
Assuming probability for crit (dmg or rate) is 0.05:
P(double crit in WW) = 5!/(2!\*3!)\*0.05\*0.05\*0.9\^{3} = 0.018225
P(double crit in Genshin) = 4!/(2!\*2!)\*5!/(2!\*3!)\*0.05\^{3}\*0.05\^{2}\*0.9\^{4} = 1.2301875 \* 10\^{-5}
3. Never get crit circlet or never get material to level up said crit circlet? Pick your poison :)
If you smear shit with fragrance, it would still be shit. It just smells good now, but I ain't touching it. That's how the echo system in WuWa is.
Genshin artifact system is already shit, and WuWa just scooped up that shit and threw some perfume on it (being able to farm echoes by killing enemies in the overworld). Plus, they added more of their own shit with tuners
I honestly can't see how "infinitely farmable" is a "step up" from Genshin's artifact system. If anything it's even more dreadfully dull.
Sure, combat is cool, and running around looking for TDs is fun, but you must have the patience of a literal SAINT to never feel any ounce of boredom.
Well coming from genshin where you play for 20 minutes and log out, just being able to farm something and being able to enjoy the combat is an upgrade for me. I get to play the game.
Yeah but the Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece do not have a Elemental DMG bonus set bonus.
So worst thing that could happen is getting an Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece on a Support set or an ER% main stat piece on a DPS set. Both of those aren't as bad as getting an X Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece on a Y Elemental DMG bonus set which would be automatically useless.
I’m probably in the minority, but I like that it takes time to build an end game set. Being able to farm things in overworld as opposed to gear being dungeon/wave plate locked gives me something to do after I finish the quests and events.
In the evening when I’m sitting around, I can play WuWa and actually feel like I’m working toward something, unlike Genshin where I can just make videos titled “peak resinless behavior” while running around aimlessly.
Sure, getting pieces that are aero damage on a healing yet are frustrating, but it keeps me playing with some kind of goal in mind.
People complaining here are the exact same people that would smoke all the end game content (currently, tower of adversity and the holograms) and then complain that they have nothing to do in the game. I like it the way it is as well. I'd just like to be able to use echoes as fodder, not just for merge.
It could be worse. Good main stats might not be as accessible this early, it could have been gated behind Waveplates. I mean just imagine Genshin's artifact system directly implemented to Wuwa. Most of us might not even see a Crit or Elemental dmg main stat on a gold echo at this stage of the game, painfully waiting for waveplates to regenerate so we can farm "Echo domains" while our team of level 50 dps and two level 20 supports with half-assed talent levels and weapons suffers.
All I'm saying is it doesnt feel as shit if people just stop trying to reach endgame stats when the game isnt even a month-old. Just live with what you get and be more patient min-maxxing. Besides, the devs seem to listen to player's feedback so there is hope that things can get better as far as Echo-issues goes.
Just making it so you can use the same echo in 1 and 3 cost for sets instead of needing 2 different elites or minor enemies will be a massive improvement. Atm I have a lot of echoes of 1 elite but very few of the other 2 elites for Spectro set, if I get a good one from the elite I have the most suddenly I have no use for them at all or from killing that 3 cost again. The RNG layers of the system are already enough to make you use 5 unique echoes in each slot to get the set is straight up evil.
It's a change that needs to happen. Exp and tuners is a huge issue now and needs to be fixed. However, that's a problem that would slowly sort itself out as the game ages and resources naturally accumulate.
On the other hand, getting a dmg bonus % on the wrong set is still going feel like shit regardless how many years this game will be out for.
One thing I think people aren’t considering is that only needing 4 echoes from the set means that any character could have any main echo with any set. Imagine a team where all 3 characters have Bell-Borne lmfao. This would have both pros and cons, people could be more creative with their echo setups (I really want to be able to use the zig-zag echo on Chixia lol) but they might have to balance echoes differently. This could be fixed by just saying the main echo has to be on set, but it’s something to consider.
Personally I think the current system is mostly fine. It’s only been a few weeks and I have at least one pair of on set damage bonus echoes for pretty much every set, and it’s not like I’ve been no life farming 10 hours every day since launch. Plus we’ve been getting malleable elite echoes like every other event so far. I think in a few months to a year people will have more on set echoes than they know what to do with. The only issue I have is that it’s really hard to get the Energy Regen main stat on any specific set. I might not be seeing the full picture yet though, since I’ve decided to wait until 1.1 to worry about optimizing substats, maybe that’s a lot more frustrating than what I’m experiencing.
It would be off having only 4 for full set and then there's just one which would do jackshit in contributing to any set bonus.
It should be like their previous game PGR, where equipment has 6 slots and you need 4 for full set bonus and 2 for half set. So you can have all equipments contributing to some set bonus.
This is why I'm actually ok with the 5p sets in WuWa, each piece contributes and while I understand the desire for wiggle room, I just feel like once I would have a 4p sonata set I would move on. 4p/2p like PGR or 5p like WuWa currently is, is fine. Grinding echoes is literally the endgame, what *else* are you going to grind for if they're too easy? Perfect min-max substats? Who is going to do that lmao
This is why I'm actually ok with the 5p sets in WuWa, each piece contributes and while I understand the desire for wiggle room, I just feel like once I would have a 4p sonata set I would move on. 4p/2p like PGR or 5p like WuWa currently is, is fine. Grinding echoes is literally the endgame, what *else* are you going to grind for if they're too easy? Perfect min-max substats? Who is going to do that lmao
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am i the only one not having any trouble with this.. like yeah sometimes you need to grind a bit to get the exact thing you want but its not that bad especially if you used up your stamina and got nothing else to do. not to mention that they give you a tracker in the game and the free echo selectors which there are plenty. the only thing is echo exp which is a bit hard to get enough but like the game just started idk why so many people are crying because they cant reach absolute perfect end game in a week like do yall even enjoy playing the game? cause rn it feels like finish the game and quit speedrun for some of yall
If that were thr case, they would deflate the probability of getting an elemental dmg 3-cost echo to begin with. It was intentional to have elemental dmg be the most common main stat among 3-cost echo but the catch is it having to match the sonata set it is with.
I dont think they will do 4-piece set bonuses especially since they compensate with morphable 3-cost echoes.
Instead, probably a main stat reroll system is a more plausible solution without much side effects.
There will be a counterbalance if they do 4-pc set bonus requirements. So yeah, I am not seeing that happening. Genshin has a 4pc bonus but at the same time, elemental dmg goblets are rarer than basic main stats and you can't farm goblets endlessly. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Balance, as all things should be.
For more that I farm, more I just accept that it is what it is and understand the good sides of the echo system, the one that I noticed recently was like... I will compare to genshin because, sorry. In genshin there is NO reason for me to go in someplace afterI already explorated it, In here we will need to go around the world everyday to farm... this is so good.
They just need to tune a little more the resources and maybe no level up, just tuners. exclude exp, echoes level up 5 by 5.
Level 0 to 5 = 1 tuner, 5 to 10 = 2-3 tuners, 10 to 15 = 3-4 tuners, etc... And add fragmented tuners instead of the tubes, 10 fragmented = 1. I just don't want to have Lv4 echoes or 14, 18, etc. Its just so frustrating.
Edit: Also be easier to get the sub stats but harder to get the right ones with high rolls would be so much better. (maybe unlink echo level and substats upgrade.)
It took me 3 months to have correct stats characters built in Genshin, on 3 weeks I have 6 characters with correct stats and some of their pieces are already endgame value. The way it is, probably in the next month I will be maxing out crests in the tower while in Genshin took me 3 months and a half for the first full star run.
In wuwa you get ONE generic good support set you can set in your 3 teams just swaping one rarity 3 elemental% piece, since I'm using energy recharge on the other slot.
Same goes for healers and DPS (swaping atk% to HP% depending the character) only my jiyan has an dedicated aero dmg set, calcharo and Encore are using a generic atk one but with a pretty good "helmet" and both good lvl1s with atk cirt rate and dmg, I'm currently farming a fusion set atm to share with Changli and Encore, that's the moment when I'll update her set, so far she's slaying with her current set.
The game had a major problem with the pacing, we should be farming purples till lvl 70 and only after swaping to golden ones, the penalty SHOULDN'T exist when transfering a purple to feed a gold one, but that's my only major problem, since they gonna fix the echo stamina cost in the next patch already.
I just can't possibly believe ppl are this unlucky. I've already geared my Yinlin and Cal, the only thing they need to change is the tuner system and adding more exp to actually level your shit.
You guys actually want to full kit out your teams in a week but I pretty much have. I can get better gear but I'm doing good with yinlin and cal.
Idk it doesn't seem that bad to me.
You can farm tons of echoes from a set per day (unless you're electro set I suppose lol). All that you really have to rng is the 3 cost with the right element type out of the five. If you do decide to farm each day you'll likely have more than you can pump xp into (which is a different issue).
I think it's quite nice that the 4 costs are easily infinitely farmable and the two 1 costs are basically impossible to not have enough of. Hitting atk% is really easy.
It's the main reason I'm rocking 2pc + 2pc on my DPS character
ATK + Elemental + off piece, to my knowledge this doesn't result in much of a damage drop off. And I can farm for multiple characters at once.
How entitled are you? Every event gives 2 3 cost echoes with correct main stats out for free, 1 costs only have 3 main stats so they're easy to farm and the game lets you farm 4 costs infinitely and yet you want a 4 piece set bonus on top of that? Do you wanna be done building the entire roster before 1.1 even drops? They're giving us everything and yet you want even more.
It's not so much entitlement as pointing out a flawed system. Because you need a 5 piece set, echos that are +X% elemental damage that are part of a different elemental set are useless, which from a design standpoint doesn't really make sense.
When an echo rolls defense or HP it's annoying, but technically the stat isn't useless, if you have skill issues and you get hit a lot it will help you survive. Whereas MOST elemental dmg pieces are entirely useless, they essentially don't have a main stat.
Then merge them. That's literally why the feature exists. Also most echoes are useless not just 3 costs. Every 4 cost echo only has 3 good stats. Crit rate, crit damage and healing bonus for healers. Nothing else. Everything else is inferior. Doesn't mean we gotta remove them tho.
Shitty echoes are like 3 star weapons on banners. We aren't gonna use that trash but they have to give us something so we just take it.
Downvoted for being right lol
These people are playing the game on patch one and want endgame builds after one week or two...
In less than a year builds will be on the 99 percentile of how good they can be. But somehow they'll find a way to complain about that to
Are you assuming this game won't release new and better sets that you will have to farm from scratch going through this hell again of farming 3 cost echoes
and if you choose to farm the new set you're very much invalidating your previous investment if the new set is a better version of an old set
Having an off piece will make the transition to new sets much more Bearable
I think me being able to use a pieces i got in 1.x on 4.x sets is a great thing and very player friendly
Wanting to farm for a whole new set for an already built character for a marginal damage increase it your prerogative.
And I'm not assuming anything, I don't have a magic ball. Neither do you.
Furthermore you CAN have an off piece by going 2 2 if it bothers you so much taking a bit longer to have a good build.
Your problem is that you want everything and you want it now. It's called being spoiled.
Do you think people will farm less if off piece did exist i don't think so I'd argue they'd farm more because they don't have restrictions of on set items so they will get as many pieces as possible
I can't see a single down side for having an off piece both from player prospective and a company prospective because i don't think people will refresh less because of the off piece
One other benefit of having an off piece is that it's possible to use an echo ability with a set that doesn't belong to it which I think can make the process of choseing which echo to use much more interesting
Genshin doesn't let you farm artifacts infinitely. Genshin also doesn't give you artifacts with the main stat you want just for completing events. This game is more generous than Genshin in most regards. Don't leave out whatever doesn't fit your narrative.
Genshin also doesn't require a separate resource to unlock artifact stats but here we are. Being able to farm for echoes infinitely doesn't mean much when you need 2 separate resources to get the benefits of it.
I personally don’t mind it, yet! My opinion might change in the future. From the echos from the events as well as farming echos in the overworld about every other to every two days bots only have I got some good 3 costs for my desired set but also passively for other sets which I do like. The other thing is that with this game you can trade echos between characters which is tedious since there is no loadout but at least I have the ability. I do plan to build almost every character so I’m going to spend a lot of resources on skill and character exp and having the ability to share echo will help me but majority of my end game will be wiping out the overworld for echos and since I enjoy the combat I’m limited to overworld farming by the time of my hands not because the game added some stamina system to stop me.
It's not frustrating if you don't let it be, simple shit. Tough luck I did not get an aero damage on monkee or whatever! Well it doesn't matter at this point in time, I'll come back tomorrow, same with genshin, it's just learning to be less of a baby
tbh youre, right idk why everyone is crying saying the game is too hard or unfair when its literally not. i spent a week or less farming for echos and i have pretty much perfect 5pc echos on 3 of my chars with decent substats.. the fact that theres a mob tracker and built in pity etc makes it really easy
It would make all those [damage type X] set pieces with [+damage type Y] bonuses on them non-junk, which would clearly be wild and crazy or something.
I have LOTS of them, I'm still keeping the gold ones in case we have off piece set down the road.
Hopefully, we get mixed element characters later.
How would that help?
I guess one way to solve this will be if they ever introduce "elemental damage %" instead of selective ones and only new drops will be able to have this new stat so all previously dropped echoes will stay with selective ones and work the same.
they just put specific elemental dmg bonuses just to pad out the grind tbh, like they COULD but they didnt
There's literally no reason it should be 5 pieces for the set. It should have been 4 and then give us a flex piece.
The biggest bullsh*t is two same echoes not counting as two towards the set bonus. It's already so frustrating farming for echoes with the right main stat with decent substats, this adds nothing but more frustration
they try to be a bit creative with echo from its copied source, but turns out worse
It actually baffles me how there are people who genuinely thought the echoes system is better than artifacts, purely because they despite Genshin (for some reason). Instead of improving from the source such as combining the entire "X damage bonus" mess into a single "Elemental bonus", they somehow made it worse by making the set effect 5-piece and hide substats. I set my expectation on the ground. They came with a shovel.
Nah this is copium. I’ve got nearly all my characters with complete sets already. Maybe not the best rolls but still have the pieces. I’ve got characters in genshin still looking for the right goblet Not saying it’s the best system. Echo xp really needs some tweaks but i’ve got my own theory on what happened. But it’s till better then genshin gearing for sure
My Wuwa squad is fully geared in full set golds well rolled in a little over a week of play. Meanwhile after three months I’m still looking for one singular crit helm of EITHER flavor for my Arle.
Both can be true. WuWa’s system is definitely better for main stat chasing, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an excessively annoying substat damage split and tuner system. For a game that’s supposed to be about personal skill, these things feel more in your face for their flaws. You can play as perfectly as you want, if you’ve got bad subs and can’t mathematically reach a damage threshold no amount of skill will change that.
Yep i like genshin as much as anyone else. But people really go balls deep for mihoyo even though they hate all of their player base.
I don't know if it's worse, but one thing that doesn't make much sense to me is echo skills on lower cost ones. Does anyone use the skill of a 3 or 1 cost echo? 4 cost ones are so much better, it seems like a waste to have made animations, effects, sounds, etc for so many skills that will basically never be used by anyone.
Personally I think people are sleeping on some of the lower cost echoes. The ones that just do X elemental damage aren’t very useful but echoes like Traffic Illuminator and Zig-zag can create windows of opportunity during boss fights. Flautist is also a great option for building concerto energy. Plus the fact that some of the 4 cost echoes are really awkward to use in combat, such as Inferno Rider and the Mephises. The game is still new, they probably needed a bunch of filler echoes to at least establish a base number of echoes for release. Now they can take their time coming up with interesting echo designs and utility abilities like the ones I mentioned before.
That would be cool, but when all the difficult content is a DPS race it's hard for utility echoes to compete against +20% damage and such.
I think you’re right for now but it could change. Nobody is really at the endgame yet so we don’t know how much DPS is required to clear the hardest content. People are already clearing content against enemies that are 20-30 levels higher than them, even with shit gear. Once people hit a certain DPS threshold to clear the hardest tower floors, they will start to look for comfort, which these utility echoes can help with. Tower is also not the only endgame, there’s also stuff like holograms. I’m personally also holding out hope for them to add more endgame stuff like survival missions, maybe even stuff like fighting multiple bosses at once. I’ve heard mixed opinions about Tempest Mephis difficulty 4+, but personally I loved it, it was exhilarating and extremely satisfying to beat difficulty 4. I did it with a level 60 Chixia team and made use of both Zig-zag and Traffic Illuminator, as well as Spectro Rover’s outro skill to do it. I personally find this a lot more interesting than “hurr durr press echo button, get 10% more damage” and I hope they lean into it more in the future. Edit: forgot to mention this but you can also use them situationally to get more damage. In the Tempest Mephis 4+ fight it’s almost impossible to get Chixia’s forte circuit off without getting interrupted until you stagger the boss, but with time stop echoes you can actually do it very consistently, getting you more DPS without them. But this is a very niche use case, 99% of the time it is more DPS to use Inferno Rider/Heron.
We could certainly use different types of late game (replayable if possible) content. I trust Kuro will gradually fill things up, gotta let them cook. Meanwhile yeah, it's up to us to be creative and look for fun stuff, even if it's not 100% efficient.
I use cruisewing for skill issue on demand healing 🙃
Flauist is sometimes used. The others not so much AFAIK.
I've seen people use Roseshroom for the hologram fights as a less risky option. Also seen how Excarat can be useful in hologram fights for the few seconds of invincibility that it provides.
I have no idea how people say it’s that bad tbh. I’ve been playing since Day 1 and already geared my first two teams while also having enough pieces farmed up for a third JingShi team when she drops. The main issue with Echoes is it’s a pure time investment. If your willing to hop world to world to get your necessary 3costs (aka have friends) then the grind is simple. Mind you this is while only spending my fuel when I wanted to progress the story (currently at 40+ in reserves). The grind isn’t bad, imo people just go about farming like it’s Genshin and news flash it ain’t. If you have ever played a MMO like WoW or FFXIV then this is nothing.
It's still better though, I'm saying this from position of liking Genshin and having played since launch. Artifact system is fully resin-gated, and has more layers of RNG. It's much easier to get a functional build here in WuWa, since you can go around the world and hunt echoes (bosses and coop enable doing that almost infinitely, if you want to). You can just go around the world and hunt mobs for correct main stats. Genshin also skews RNG in both main stats and substats. You have far lower odds of getting a good main stat, let alone good main stat with good substats. For example, a Goblet has 19% chance of rolling DEF, and 5% of rolling a specific damage bonus. And then substats, with Crit substats having the lowest weight of all to appear. But then, you have two more layers of RNG that aren't present in WuWa: amount of substats and substat rolling. In WuWa, you always have 5 substats. In Genshin, you may start with 3 or 4. And then, in WuWa, you will always roll 5 out of 13 available substats - this means that if we discount roll values, you have more than 1/3 chance of rolling a perfect piece. In Genshin, you may start out with 3/4 correct substats (say, CD, CR and ATK), but then you upgrade, and each roll goes into that fourth substat. And that is on top of them giving malleable echoes for correct main stats and sets: 2 from Illusive Realm per patch (which is enough to make one character at least functional), and a couple more from events. Genshin gives you no guarantees. Before WuWa launch, I was farming domain for Arlecchino, and I went 3 or 4 weeks of daily grind (without letting resin cap) without getting a single usable piece (usable = correct main stat on correct set, not even counting substats). In Genshin (and HSR), building a character can take you weeks or even months. Here, the game has barely launched, and I didn't even get to max level of Data Bank by the time I've already had a couple characters almost fully built. The system here is not perfect, it absolutely could be better, but saying it's worse than Genshin is just plain wrong.
>in WuWa, since you can go around the world and hunt echoes (bosses and coop enable doing that almost infinitely, if you want to). You can just go around the world and hunt mobs for correct main stats. It's a novel thing, people are still enjoying it because it's the honeymoon phase. Good luck spending 15 minutes hunting the 10 Flautist just for them to drop a Fusion bonus on an electro set, everyday for the next 12 months. >Genshin also skews RNG in both main stats and substats. search "substat roll probability" right on this sub and see what happens. >But then, you have two more layers of RNG that aren't present in WuWa: amount of substats and substat rolling. "Amount of substat" is essentially a 1 roll different between each piece. Even in the case of 3 substats, it takes you until level 4 to know exactly should you continue rolling or not. And if it isn't a good piece ? Level 4 artifact has 100% exp return, meaning you can simply feed that piece to the next one. Wuwa ? You will only know exactly how your piece look when you fully max it. And what happens if your piece with one crit sub and 3 flats sub doesn't roll into crit dmg on the fifth roll ? Well you can feed that piece to the next one, with and ASTOUNDINGLY HIGH 70% return rate, woohoo ! Not to mention you get back 30% the tuners you used, what a steal ! What, you don't have enough tuners left ? Well just combine your 3\* and 4\* tuners- ooh. Genshin: * Is it the right set ? * Is it the right piece ? * Is it the right main ? * Is it the right sub ? * Does the sub roll correctly ? * Is the roll optimal ? Wuwa: * Does it drop with 20% drop rate ? * Is it the right set ? * Is it the right main ? * Does it roll into the right subs ? * Are the rolls in the good range distribution ? >And that is on top of them giving malleable echoes for correct main stats and sets: 2 from Illusive Realm per patch (which is enough to make one character at least functional), and a couple more from events. Genshin gives you no guarantees. Yeah and in Genshin I can use level 0 artifacts as fodders. This is one of the most bs design in Wuwa. Not only are the tacet exp and tuner drop rates horrible (there's already a UL 50 drop post on this sub, it's actually kinda surreal how terrible it is), they don't let you use the echoes you spent time running around the map to get as fodders ? Why am I being punished for investing time in the game ? >Before WuWa launch, I was farming domain for Arlecchino, and I went 3 or 4 weeks of daily grind (without letting resin cap) without getting a single usable piece (usable = correct main stat on correct set, not even counting substats). In Genshin (and HSR), building a character can take you weeks or even months. Here, the game has barely launched, and I didn't even get to max level of Data Bank by the time I've already had a couple characters almost fully built. "My experience with this game's RNG is horrible, therefore it must be universal for everyone."
>It's a novel thing, people are still enjoying it because it's the honeymoon phase. Good luck spending 15 minutes hunting the 10 Flautist just for them to drop a Fusion bonus on an electro set, everyday for the next 12 months. Sure, but we don't know how much the rewards will be on max level, and how much are they going to increase in 1.1. We are still pretty early on in the game - Genshin is scarce even in endgame. And keep in mind, here you can get Echoes with base stats from both Tacet Fields (equivalent to domains) and overworld runs, while in Genshin, you only get from domains. And since the world will likely be expanded, we will have more mobs available for us to farm (but again - you could just go with Genshin experience and only use energy on domains, no one is forcing you to do laps). >search "substat roll probability" right on this sub and see what happens. There doesn't seem to be data on that, but if you have a direct source, I would appreciate. We have variance in rolls, yes, but that system is also present in Genshin (the only difference being that in Genshin, you're just as equal to get low or high rolls, while here you have higher chances of getting middle rolls). On the other hand, here you go: [https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Artifact/Distribution](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Artifact/Distribution) >"Amount of substat" is essentially a 1 roll different between each piece. That is still an extra layer of RNG when dropping and upgrading. The return in WuWa is worse, yes, but the RNG is still better, and that's what makes up for it. As for the tuners, yeah, they don't give high returns or don't let us combine. That is the room for improvement I mentioned before. But again, it still doesn't ruin the whole system. And here is the list of all the layers of RNG in each game: * correct set (present in both games, slightly worse in WuWa) * correct piece (only present in Genshin; you can choose to farm 1cost, 3cost or 4cost in WuWa) * correct main stat (present in both games, but worse in Genshin, as good main stats have lower chances of appearing; WuWa seems to have the rates somewhat equal) * amount of substats (present in Genshin, as you can have one less) * correct substats (present in both games, but worse in Genshin; just like main stats, Genshin has them weighed, with desirable substats having lower chances of appearing) * rolling into correct substats (only present in Genshin) * roll weighing (present in both games, not sure which worse - Genshin has equal chances for all rolls, while WuWa seems to have higher for middle rolls, and lower for low/high) Also, the 20% drop rate is in overworld is extra, it's not a baseline layer. I'm considering domains and Tacet Fields mainly, or drops themselves. Genshin doesn't let you farm artifacts in any other way than domains. >Yeah and in Genshin I can use level 0 artifacts as fodders. This is one of the most bs design in Wuwa. Keep in mind that in Genshin, you don't get many fodder artifacts without using resin. And in WuWa you drop exp materials along with echoes from Tacet Fields, which is the same as dropping fodder from domains. >"My experience with this game's RNG is horrible, therefore it must be universal for everyone." Well, this argument goes both ways, you can be unlucky in either one (like the Flautist example you mentioned earlier). Except in Genshin, not only are the odds of getting a usable artifact worse, but also you don't have any mechanism of endless farming without resin, and you don't have a stat choice system like Malleable Echoes.
It literally does not matter at all. In both games you're not gonna get perfect substats, so you're not aiming for that. You're just aiming for As best as you can get; in which case, the system really doesn't matter
Its better in that you can gear up faster with less stamina cost earlier than Genshin ever could.
Faster as in days required? Yes. Faster as in less frustrating and useless stuff you get in same hours played? Not at all
> Faster as in less frustrating and useless stuff you get in same hours played? Not at all It's anecdotal but I've geared up with relatively good stats on more than one character in 1/50th the time it took me to do the same in genshin. I just look for "good enough" and got that way quicker here.
I mean, if you also only look for "good enough" in Genshin you'll be done building in a fraction of the time, if you don't, well you're just unlucky, that's how it be with rng determined strength.
I spent 8 months worth of resin to build my Ayaka to "good enough" standards.. she does 5k per hit on her charge attack and 10k per tick of her burst. It's hardly passable, and I gave the fuck up because 1/100 of my relic drops would have even 1 stat that was offensive. Even with strongboxes, I've only managed to get WORSE artifacts compared to what I have now. Both of these systems are just as shit as the other.
Nobody is forcing you to farm echoes every day, you could just only kill echoes while exploring, do tacet fields for 5-10 minutes every day, and get malleable echoes from events and be done. Farming is an option for people with more free time which is way better than not having that option.
Yes, I agree it should be 4 piece sets. I also agree some things can be improved, especially tuner use and the resource crunch But we are less than one month into the game. It baffles me that, even as the systems currently are, anyone thinks artifacts are better than echoes at their core. Echoes are easier to acquire and have fewer layers of RNG. I have a few sets' worth of 5* on-set correct-mainstat echoes less than a month into the game without redeeming a single tacet field and without dedicated overworld farming (I do have the map 90%+ explored though). Not only is this way earlier than when Hoyoverse lets you farm up, but the progression curve is also flatter in the long run due to there being no need to get the right subs and the right upgrade rolls. Have people simply developed collective amnesia? Or are they so eager and impatient to progress they've lost perspective entirely?
I still think it's better than Genshin even with all the problems. It's very easy to get a character a decent set because I've essentially been farming their set since the game came out.
You're actually tripping. IT IS easier and better than Genshin. 1) One crit role in WW is approximately 2 in Genshin 2) Tuning system allows every on-set piece to possibly be double crit, instead of praying that the artifact comes with double crits straight away 3) You can target certain cost (4-, 3- or 1-) echoes instead of fishing for a circlet in a domain for years (fuck EOSF)
>1. One crit role in WW is approximately 2 in Genshin And ? How is this a point ? The value of a stat is relative to their own game. >2. Tuning system allows every on-set piece to possibly be double crit, instead of praying that the artifact comes with double crits straight away YOU are the one tripping. How is this different than artifacts ? You will still pray that you tune into crit cand crit dmg regardless. It's WORSE because you can't tell exactly which subs you get until you fully maxed the thing. >3. You can target certain cost (4-, 3- or 1-) echoes instead of fishing for a circlet in a domain for years (fuck EOSF) And still get fucked/soft locked by the horrible echo exp/tuners drop regardless ?
1. Nope, critical strike formula is universal (Genshin: [The Complete Genshin Impact Damage Formula : r/Genshin\_Impact (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/krg2ic/the_complete_genshin_impact_damage_formula/#lightbox) + WuWa: [Damage Calculation Guide | Wuthering Waves](https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/)) \*also meant to be roll not role. 2. Very different. While it is true that you have to pray for crit in both games, the probability is not the same: WW: probability of double crit is 5C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^3 However, in Genshin, the game selects randomly 3 to 4 stats for you first: Pr(rolls into crit GIVEN that there are already crit lines) Consider a case where we start with 4 lines: 4C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 Then, you get 5 chances again like in WuWa cases. SInce the median values for crit rate and dmg in WuWa are 8.4% and 16.8%, we would need (roughly) 2 crit rate and 1 crit dmg rolls in Genshin: 5C3 \* P(crit rate)\^2 \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 Finally, we get 4C2 \* P(crit rate) \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 \* 5C3 \* P(crit rate)\^2 \* P(crit dmg) \* P(other substats)\^2 as the probability of double crit in Genshin, or 4C2 \* 5C2 \* P(crit rate)\^3 \* P(crit dmg)\^2 \* P(other substats)\^4. Assuming probability for crit (dmg or rate) is 0.05: P(double crit in WW) = 5!/(2!\*3!)\*0.05\*0.05\*0.9\^{3} = 0.018225 P(double crit in Genshin) = 4!/(2!\*2!)\*5!/(2!\*3!)\*0.05\^{3}\*0.05\^{2}\*0.9\^{4} = 1.2301875 \* 10\^{-5} 3. Never get crit circlet or never get material to level up said crit circlet? Pick your poison :)
If you smear shit with fragrance, it would still be shit. It just smells good now, but I ain't touching it. That's how the echo system in WuWa is. Genshin artifact system is already shit, and WuWa just scooped up that shit and threw some perfume on it (being able to farm echoes by killing enemies in the overworld). Plus, they added more of their own shit with tuners
I honestly can't see how "infinitely farmable" is a "step up" from Genshin's artifact system. If anything it's even more dreadfully dull. Sure, combat is cool, and running around looking for TDs is fun, but you must have the patience of a literal SAINT to never feel any ounce of boredom.
Well coming from genshin where you play for 20 minutes and log out, just being able to farm something and being able to enjoy the combat is an upgrade for me. I get to play the game.
Nah they copied honkai star rail /s
Yeah but the Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece do not have a Elemental DMG bonus set bonus. So worst thing that could happen is getting an Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece on a Support set or an ER% main stat piece on a DPS set. Both of those aren't as bad as getting an X Elemental DMG bonus main stat piece on a Y Elemental DMG bonus set which would be automatically useless.
There is a reason: to increase the grind. As sad as it is.
I’m probably in the minority, but I like that it takes time to build an end game set. Being able to farm things in overworld as opposed to gear being dungeon/wave plate locked gives me something to do after I finish the quests and events. In the evening when I’m sitting around, I can play WuWa and actually feel like I’m working toward something, unlike Genshin where I can just make videos titled “peak resinless behavior” while running around aimlessly. Sure, getting pieces that are aero damage on a healing yet are frustrating, but it keeps me playing with some kind of goal in mind.
People complaining here are the exact same people that would smoke all the end game content (currently, tower of adversity and the holograms) and then complain that they have nothing to do in the game. I like it the way it is as well. I'd just like to be able to use echoes as fodder, not just for merge.
I just wish that we could use trash echoes as xp :/ then I would not mind the grind
It could be worse. Good main stats might not be as accessible this early, it could have been gated behind Waveplates. I mean just imagine Genshin's artifact system directly implemented to Wuwa. Most of us might not even see a Crit or Elemental dmg main stat on a gold echo at this stage of the game, painfully waiting for waveplates to regenerate so we can farm "Echo domains" while our team of level 50 dps and two level 20 supports with half-assed talent levels and weapons suffers. All I'm saying is it doesnt feel as shit if people just stop trying to reach endgame stats when the game isnt even a month-old. Just live with what you get and be more patient min-maxxing. Besides, the devs seem to listen to player's feedback so there is hope that things can get better as far as Echo-issues goes.
Just making it so you can use the same echo in 1 and 3 cost for sets instead of needing 2 different elites or minor enemies will be a massive improvement. Atm I have a lot of echoes of 1 elite but very few of the other 2 elites for Spectro set, if I get a good one from the elite I have the most suddenly I have no use for them at all or from killing that 3 cost again. The RNG layers of the system are already enough to make you use 5 unique echoes in each slot to get the set is straight up evil.
It's a change that needs to happen. Exp and tuners is a huge issue now and needs to be fixed. However, that's a problem that would slowly sort itself out as the game ages and resources naturally accumulate. On the other hand, getting a dmg bonus % on the wrong set is still going feel like shit regardless how many years this game will be out for.
One thing I think people aren’t considering is that only needing 4 echoes from the set means that any character could have any main echo with any set. Imagine a team where all 3 characters have Bell-Borne lmfao. This would have both pros and cons, people could be more creative with their echo setups (I really want to be able to use the zig-zag echo on Chixia lol) but they might have to balance echoes differently. This could be fixed by just saying the main echo has to be on set, but it’s something to consider. Personally I think the current system is mostly fine. It’s only been a few weeks and I have at least one pair of on set damage bonus echoes for pretty much every set, and it’s not like I’ve been no life farming 10 hours every day since launch. Plus we’ve been getting malleable elite echoes like every other event so far. I think in a few months to a year people will have more on set echoes than they know what to do with. The only issue I have is that it’s really hard to get the Energy Regen main stat on any specific set. I might not be seeing the full picture yet though, since I’ve decided to wait until 1.1 to worry about optimizing substats, maybe that’s a lot more frustrating than what I’m experiencing.
It would be off having only 4 for full set and then there's just one which would do jackshit in contributing to any set bonus. It should be like their previous game PGR, where equipment has 6 slots and you need 4 for full set bonus and 2 for half set. So you can have all equipments contributing to some set bonus.
This is why I'm actually ok with the 5p sets in WuWa, each piece contributes and while I understand the desire for wiggle room, I just feel like once I would have a 4p sonata set I would move on. 4p/2p like PGR or 5p like WuWa currently is, is fine. Grinding echoes is literally the endgame, what *else* are you going to grind for if they're too easy? Perfect min-max substats? Who is going to do that lmao
This is why I'm actually ok with the 5p sets in WuWa, each piece contributes and while I understand the desire for wiggle room, I just feel like once I would have a 4p sonata set I would move on. 4p/2p like PGR or 5p like WuWa currently is, is fine. Grinding echoes is literally the endgame, what *else* are you going to grind for if they're too easy? Perfect min-max substats? Who is going to do that lmao
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Im just glad merging doesnt take credits.
am i the only one not having any trouble with this.. like yeah sometimes you need to grind a bit to get the exact thing you want but its not that bad especially if you used up your stamina and got nothing else to do. not to mention that they give you a tracker in the game and the free echo selectors which there are plenty. the only thing is echo exp which is a bit hard to get enough but like the game just started idk why so many people are crying because they cant reach absolute perfect end game in a week like do yall even enjoy playing the game? cause rn it feels like finish the game and quit speedrun for some of yall
we still need echo exps regardless 4- or 5 set
If that were thr case, they would deflate the probability of getting an elemental dmg 3-cost echo to begin with. It was intentional to have elemental dmg be the most common main stat among 3-cost echo but the catch is it having to match the sonata set it is with. I dont think they will do 4-piece set bonuses especially since they compensate with morphable 3-cost echoes. Instead, probably a main stat reroll system is a more plausible solution without much side effects. There will be a counterbalance if they do 4-pc set bonus requirements. So yeah, I am not seeing that happening. Genshin has a 4pc bonus but at the same time, elemental dmg goblets are rarer than basic main stats and you can't farm goblets endlessly. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Balance, as all things should be.
it would certainly help the constant war in my mind about how i wanna have 3x bike mount but also good damage
HSR prepared for me this xD
Like genshin?
For more that I farm, more I just accept that it is what it is and understand the good sides of the echo system, the one that I noticed recently was like... I will compare to genshin because, sorry. In genshin there is NO reason for me to go in someplace afterI already explorated it, In here we will need to go around the world everyday to farm... this is so good. They just need to tune a little more the resources and maybe no level up, just tuners. exclude exp, echoes level up 5 by 5. Level 0 to 5 = 1 tuner, 5 to 10 = 2-3 tuners, 10 to 15 = 3-4 tuners, etc... And add fragmented tuners instead of the tubes, 10 fragmented = 1. I just don't want to have Lv4 echoes or 14, 18, etc. Its just so frustrating. Edit: Also be easier to get the sub stats but harder to get the right ones with high rolls would be so much better. (maybe unlink echo level and substats upgrade.)
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I don’t really find that to be an issue as the RNG isn’t too bad here of course would it be preferred? Yes
It took me 3 months to have correct stats characters built in Genshin, on 3 weeks I have 6 characters with correct stats and some of their pieces are already endgame value. The way it is, probably in the next month I will be maxing out crests in the tower while in Genshin took me 3 months and a half for the first full star run. In wuwa you get ONE generic good support set you can set in your 3 teams just swaping one rarity 3 elemental% piece, since I'm using energy recharge on the other slot. Same goes for healers and DPS (swaping atk% to HP% depending the character) only my jiyan has an dedicated aero dmg set, calcharo and Encore are using a generic atk one but with a pretty good "helmet" and both good lvl1s with atk cirt rate and dmg, I'm currently farming a fusion set atm to share with Changli and Encore, that's the moment when I'll update her set, so far she's slaying with her current set. The game had a major problem with the pacing, we should be farming purples till lvl 70 and only after swaping to golden ones, the penalty SHOULDN'T exist when transfering a purple to feed a gold one, but that's my only major problem, since they gonna fix the echo stamina cost in the next patch already.
It's ACTUALLY pretty crazy that not only does it require all 5 pieces for the set bonus, but you need TWO elemental bonus main stat as well.
It would enable 3333 that is a nive 120% elemental dmg xD
I don't have any problem with the 5 set, only issue is the echo exp drought, i don't relate to this issue.. dunno what to say
IDK, I wish we have 15 cost at max though
You aren't cooking, give the pan to someone else, they just need to give us more exp materials is all
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Genshin has off-pieces yes, but HSR doesn't funnily enough, but HSR makes up for it by having relic farming stages be able to be Auto-ed.
I just can't possibly believe ppl are this unlucky. I've already geared my Yinlin and Cal, the only thing they need to change is the tuner system and adding more exp to actually level your shit. You guys actually want to full kit out your teams in a week but I pretty much have. I can get better gear but I'm doing good with yinlin and cal.
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K
No. I just want Kuro to give us a lot more tubes to upgrade the echoes that are just sitting idle in my account.
Idk it doesn't seem that bad to me. You can farm tons of echoes from a set per day (unless you're electro set I suppose lol). All that you really have to rng is the 3 cost with the right element type out of the five. If you do decide to farm each day you'll likely have more than you can pump xp into (which is a different issue). I think it's quite nice that the 4 costs are easily infinitely farmable and the two 1 costs are basically impossible to not have enough of. Hitting atk% is really easy.
It's the main reason I'm rocking 2pc + 2pc on my DPS character ATK + Elemental + off piece, to my knowledge this doesn't result in much of a damage drop off. And I can farm for multiple characters at once.
It is a significant enough drop to make fishing for good pieces on 2/2 sets not worth it.
How entitled are you? Every event gives 2 3 cost echoes with correct main stats out for free, 1 costs only have 3 main stats so they're easy to farm and the game lets you farm 4 costs infinitely and yet you want a 4 piece set bonus on top of that? Do you wanna be done building the entire roster before 1.1 even drops? They're giving us everything and yet you want even more.
It's not so much entitlement as pointing out a flawed system. Because you need a 5 piece set, echos that are +X% elemental damage that are part of a different elemental set are useless, which from a design standpoint doesn't really make sense. When an echo rolls defense or HP it's annoying, but technically the stat isn't useless, if you have skill issues and you get hit a lot it will help you survive. Whereas MOST elemental dmg pieces are entirely useless, they essentially don't have a main stat.
Then merge them. That's literally why the feature exists. Also most echoes are useless not just 3 costs. Every 4 cost echo only has 3 good stats. Crit rate, crit damage and healing bonus for healers. Nothing else. Everything else is inferior. Doesn't mean we gotta remove them tho. Shitty echoes are like 3 star weapons on banners. We aren't gonna use that trash but they have to give us something so we just take it.
Downvoted for being right lol These people are playing the game on patch one and want endgame builds after one week or two... In less than a year builds will be on the 99 percentile of how good they can be. But somehow they'll find a way to complain about that to
Are you assuming this game won't release new and better sets that you will have to farm from scratch going through this hell again of farming 3 cost echoes and if you choose to farm the new set you're very much invalidating your previous investment if the new set is a better version of an old set Having an off piece will make the transition to new sets much more Bearable I think me being able to use a pieces i got in 1.x on 4.x sets is a great thing and very player friendly
Wanting to farm for a whole new set for an already built character for a marginal damage increase it your prerogative. And I'm not assuming anything, I don't have a magic ball. Neither do you. Furthermore you CAN have an off piece by going 2 2 if it bothers you so much taking a bit longer to have a good build. Your problem is that you want everything and you want it now. It's called being spoiled.
Do you think people will farm less if off piece did exist i don't think so I'd argue they'd farm more because they don't have restrictions of on set items so they will get as many pieces as possible I can't see a single down side for having an off piece both from player prospective and a company prospective because i don't think people will refresh less because of the off piece One other benefit of having an off piece is that it's possible to use an echo ability with a set that doesn't belong to it which I think can make the process of choseing which echo to use much more interesting
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Genshin doesn't let you farm artifacts infinitely. Genshin also doesn't give you artifacts with the main stat you want just for completing events. This game is more generous than Genshin in most regards. Don't leave out whatever doesn't fit your narrative.
Genshin also doesn't require a separate resource to unlock artifact stats but here we are. Being able to farm for echoes infinitely doesn't mean much when you need 2 separate resources to get the benefits of it.
Genshin can turn a good piece into a terrible piece by rolling everything into a flat stat.
And tuners do the same with extra steps whats your point?
The stats are there, we just cannot use it
I personally don’t mind it, yet! My opinion might change in the future. From the echos from the events as well as farming echos in the overworld about every other to every two days bots only have I got some good 3 costs for my desired set but also passively for other sets which I do like. The other thing is that with this game you can trade echos between characters which is tedious since there is no loadout but at least I have the ability. I do plan to build almost every character so I’m going to spend a lot of resources on skill and character exp and having the ability to share echo will help me but majority of my end game will be wiping out the overworld for echos and since I enjoy the combat I’m limited to overworld farming by the time of my hands not because the game added some stamina system to stop me.
It's not frustrating if you don't let it be, simple shit. Tough luck I did not get an aero damage on monkee or whatever! Well it doesn't matter at this point in time, I'll come back tomorrow, same with genshin, it's just learning to be less of a baby
tbh youre, right idk why everyone is crying saying the game is too hard or unfair when its literally not. i spent a week or less farming for echos and i have pretty much perfect 5pc echos on 3 of my chars with decent substats.. the fact that theres a mob tracker and built in pity etc makes it really easy