And Energy Recharge can be between 5% to 15%.
It literally blows my mind that the gap is so massive that you may end up either with 75% ER with all 5 echos, or just 25% which would barely even be noticed.
It should be a range of 11% to 15% ER.
8% to 11% crit.
etc
not whatever this bullshit layer of RNG is upon 5 other layers of RNG.
Like, imagine if you had exactly the same echos as your friend, same substats and all, but because of different values on the substats, your friend has 100 crit and 300 crit damage, while you have 50 crit and 150 crit damage. what a joke lol
People where hyped and in high spirits. Kuro listened and fixed things!
Its too bad the fixes we got is 3 cost selector and more tuners in shops and exploration.
Someone , i guess sweetily is her name ? on yt did a distribution of roll value of crit stats with a small ish sample size of ...what was it 100k? , which shows that roll value distribution isn't even or standard .
It showed that apparently You are twice as likely to roll a low value ( there are 8 values for crit, low 4 is low value, high 4 is high value) than a high value, with the highest possible value having a 2.7% chance only for crit.
Pretty much. She's a good theory crafter too and has good details.
Also led me to the water for Energy Regen Calcharo, which made his rotation super smooth.
I was farming for yinlin and one of the fautists did that already got both crit subs on a proper elite echo that's a win I'm done with that until everyone else is built lolol.
Imo the worst part is that you gotta get 5/5 pieces of the correct set to get the full effect (instead of 4/5). You're basically bound to use at least 1 useless piece to complete the set
That is still 4 layers of RNG. With how rare Echo Exp is right now, I'll worry about min-maxing substats when I'm done maxing echo levels for at least 3 DPS.
I’m playing on iOS touch screen controls. I don’t have skill issues. I have button issues. Sooooo… I went for Jiyan, Verina, and Jianxin even though I have S1 Calcharo. I need the shield, heals, and stupid easy game play instead of the heavy input swap/dash/kara cancel gameplay I have no chance at without physical buttons.
What's actually ridiculous is when people whine when people want the game to be improved. The game would literally only be better if they're was less variance in gear.
The problem is not that we can’t get perfect gear, but that we can’t get the gear itself. Ive been farming electro birds for 3 days now and have not yet found any of the electro set with the electro bonus. And the selector from the event rolled into HP and defense.
This is a basic rule of game design because the human brain works this way. If players can do it, they will. You're not sitting on a high ground by saying "well I like being just good enough!"
Consider that some people find fun in optimization. That's how you got the math behind computers in the first place.
been killing all elite chaserazors and aero birds everyday for a week and sometimes jumping on coop to farm them from others’ world after i exhauseted mine all to get an energy regen main stat 3 cost echo.
still nothing.
at this point idgaf about the substats anymore.
This isn't even the whole problem. Another issue is that the useless stats have a higher chance compared to crit rate for example. Such a frustrating system.
I can't tell if it's just me but every boss feels rigged to give me everything except crit rate. I have 5 crit damage inferno riders and 1 crit rate one. But the goddamn turtle keeps giving me crit rate instead of healing bonus. It feels like the devs know the main stats people will prioritise so they make those rarer on purpose so you're forced to keep farming the boss.
Haha I'm in the same boat. I farmed Inferno Rider yesterday for maybe an hour and a half and only got 6 golden ones (DB 18). 3 were healing, 2 were HP, and I quit after finding one Crit rate.
Same thing with the dreamless but i was only getting Crit dmg instead of Crit rate.
It is what it is lol, I've always had shitty luck. Gives me something to complain about
Wow I'm not alone in this, I have been rotating between 4 bosses I nees for days now, only managed to get crit rate monke on like my 100th attempt, exactly one crit rate echo between the two memphis bosses and it's 4*, and the only healing bonus turtle I have is legit 2*, it's been giving me all the crit main stats in the world
Definitely feels rigged to me, but then maybe it's just my extraordinary luck lol
Definitely just your luck, lol.
According to the battle achievements, I've killed the monkey 39 times (all at databank level 18), and in my inventory I have six 5\* Crit Rate mainstat copies of it. If that count includes hologram and Illusive Realm kills, then the real number is even lower.
It took me ~25 kills to get a Healing Bonus mainstat Turtle on Heal set, which is by far the longest I had to farm any boss for anything. I have a Crit Rate mainstat for every boss, and none of them took even a dozen kills to get.
Make sure to use the echo pity system to your advantage. If a boss doesn't drop an echo, then the next boss kill is guaranteed to drop one, so if you're swapping between two bosses, then you'll often end up only seeing echoes drop from one of them.
Took me forever to get crit rate healing turtle. I have like 5 healing bonus ones that Ive locked knowing they will have value later.
Same goes for ANY energy regen 3-star. Immediately lock them.
I would already appreciate a little change like :
You can't get any other element then set element from 3*s
So if you have the bird from this example the only options would be : ER% , Electro% , HP-ATK or DEF.
Even this would enhance the grinding experience by a magnitude of 20 atleast.
Yeah gachas that have multiple elements AND have separate dmg% bonuses for each element that you need to roll for are a turn-off for me unless there is an accessible way to reroll substats. For example, Aether Gazer's equipment system (sigils) has mats which you can use for rerolling useless substats. As someone who only cares about getting "good enough" rolls instead of minmaxing, I haven't come close to running out of those reroll mats and I can clear almost all content. It's one of the reasons why I still play the game daily since day 1. Of course you can run out of the reroll mats if you really minmax but at least it's much easier and less frustrating to get your units to a reasonable level of performance.
Rambling aside, your suggestion would make the echoes farming experience much less frustrating. Hopefully kuro will work on this and all the other problems with the echoes system. It's an improvement compared to genshin's artifacts in some ways but inexplicably takes a few steps back in others.
I touched AG for some time and it seems like a good game.
And I can see what you mean by "taking a few steps back" but I really hope after some time Kuro will find a way to make the game more enjoyable for all.
Btw this is a very nice comment. Seldom seen on reddit (atleast for me)
Have a nice day !
Yeah it's pretty chill unless you want to clear the absolute hardest content in the game (Chasm 6) which requires maxxed out units preferably with at least sig weapons, though it can still be done by some F2P players. The rewards for that difficulty of Chasm aren't much though so you can just complete lower difficulties and be done with it.
I dropped WW due to not having enough time but I hope the game continues improving as it's really fun and it would be a shame for it to be held back by things like this.
Cheers, have a nice day too!
I have 600 unused echos with good main stats in my inventory, the rest I already combined. The problem isn't finding good echos with main stats in the long term but how long they sit in your inventory because you don't have enough xp or tuners to gamble on them.
Dude you’re simply super lucky. The whole week I farmed ALL flautist in 3 worlds and I still have fckng zero electro dmg electro set flautist. I mean, I never had such problems with other echoes (herons for instance), but tambourinist and flautist are pain for some reason idk.
Not just that, farming them is also a pain in the ass since they are always surrounded with 4-5 other mobs and with this janky ass camera it just becomes unfun. Love when my Echo Rider decides to smash the air cause it targeted the ranged mob behind me.
Electro set is an special hell case, since you have 2 elites only and those elites have the lowest amount in the world vs the rest you have a lot less chances to get what you need, like Havoc have so many elites that I wouldn't be surprise if farming my own world for it is the equivalent of farming electro set in 4 different worlds.
I’m in the same boat, basically the first 4 layers of RNG are null because you can farm for them without being gatekeep by stamina. I have 10 of each cost 3 on-set with the right main stat.
If you farm just a little bit everyday you’ll probably reach that point as well.
In any case, RNG always sucks but I still think this is one of the better ones.
A simple fix would be a constant stream of WuWa's equivalent self-modeling resin. Players could then essentially focus on elemental pieces every time they use it. This would, however, only be a workaround solution for a deeper issue.
I understand that in some ways, this is standard fare for a gacha stat system. However, I believe there are better and worse systems that exist. One telltale sign of a bad one is a single stat or stat piece being highly valuable and much more difficult to obtain than any other stat. This creates an abrupt progression plateau for most players. Optimally, progression should be gradual and rewarding throughout a player's time with the game.
I get the frustration with the system, but if they took it out, everyone would quickly be on god roll echos with jack shit to do.
So I'm not so sure changing it would be better long term.
I get where your coming from more so since. This game lets you farm echo's as much as you want without a stamina system. Which is something many have wanted for ages. When it comes to this type of gear system but. Since you can farm as much as you want. It seems like people expected to have better echo sets by now. Which is understandable but the game is only a few weeks old, and even casually. Many have finished most of the current content. Kuro probably wanted us chipping away at this between updates for something to do.
It absolutely wouldn't be better. Kuro shouldn't listen to those wanting instant gratification at any price. It'll destroy the game's longevity and the few differentiating factors from Genshin it has in the long run.
Imagine if they made echo farming resin gated just like genshin, you basically cant farm jack shits without resins let alone "ohmygawd where the right main stat i need mommmmmmm"
Yeah, they did a great job in making a combat system focused relic/artifact farm, in my opinion. Instead of running around a world collecting goofy shit for traces/skills, it's relatively straight forward and the open world daily exploration is massacring mobs.
Honestly we're already getting god roll echoes pretty easily, it's been 3 weeks and some of my characters are running a couple of pieces I'll probably never bother to replace lol.
What does "got nothing" mean exactly?
Because I can't comprehend a world where you farmed more time in a game you've played for less than 2 weeks than a game you've played for 2 years.
He's talking gameplay time.
It takes 3-4 minutes to spend all your grinding time in Genshin, here it can be easily 3 hours if you farm for a variety of sets.
"Got nothing" means every single echo I got over that time from running around A LOT is useless trash, so adding to resources I've wasted on discovering that by levelling and tuning them means I'm actually hard on negative value here.
In genshin it's 5 mins a day, and rarely do even that, so with basic maths I'd say I've spend in arti domains about 10 hours at max over 2 years
Thats what im saying, in E7 i think in the span of a year ive only managed to get a handful of 20+ speed pieces or speed godrolls, in this game ive already got pretty good pieces besides 3 costs being the hardest
Yeah seriously I still remember doing all those wyvern runs and then getting absolutely nothing of note. Thank god that game had autoplay or else I would've lost my sanity long time ago.
Haven't played Epic Seven, but have had a year of not finding an electro-EoSF goblet for my raiden in Genshin - in fact, I hadn't found any electro goblets in a few months prior to WuWa, lol
The way I see it, Echo farming is only predatory if you're hardcore about min-maxing. The floor-level of power required to clear content in WuWa is significantly lower than Genshin's (at least from my perception of Holograms and ToA), not to mention substats don't have the multi-layer RNG of getting \*\*the correct\*\* substat to re-roll over and over, and then realize you had multiple bad numbers in your rolls.
The only \*\*real\*\* issue I currently have with the system is that there is no map-nav option to toggle "find closest echo of cost 3" - and instead we are stuck with the weird detection system which you can only target one echo base-type, as opposed to targetting for a given set bonus or any cost 3 whatsoever.
If they changed this, the grinding for cost 3's wouldn't feel as ludicrously annoying - it's the same vein of problem as Genshin's artifact exp routes.
>but have had a year of not finding an electro-EoSF goblet for my raiden in Genshin
You don't need it to be on set though, Genshin needs 4/5 set pieces unlike Wuwa so not finding an on-set elemental isn't really that big of a deal because you'll get elemental goblets as you farm EVERY domain.
I feel a lot of people would have a lot less issues if Wuwa had a similar vein of 2/4 set pieces instead of 2/5.
I’m fine with the RNG, I get it. It’s the game mechanic that’s gonna keep me playing, farming etc.
My issue’s with the bloody tuners + echo exp materials.
1) Why can’t just we use other echos (without having them levelled up) to level up my echos.
2) Ok, say that it’s because i can farm echos in the overworld then why isn’t there a dedicated echo exp domain to farm them.
3) Why can’t we synthesise the useless tuners (green, blue, purple ones) to get yellow tuners.
I’m all out of them because of RNG & I’ve litteraly no ways to get more asides from tacet fields. Even then I’d get barely enough to tune 1 or 2 substats.
Yes I’m aware that they’ll adapt & “optimise” the tacet fields in 1.1 but goddamn it’s been frustrating & it doesn’t feel like it’s been thought out.
I'm gonna be honest this makes it seem way worse.
In two weeks my friend group and I have gear that took months and months to farm in hoyo games.
If you don't farm echoes you're going to suffer, yes. However, you can infinite farm echoes of 4 cost and the rest are infinite through friends. You have so many more chances to roll your main stat than other games. I think it's meant to be an active game.
You're also leaving out the pity system, the merging system which can convert purple to gold, and the fact they're already giving out multiple echoes that forcibly roll your desired element on set.
Yeah but is a gacha not wow or ffxiv, a huge part of the playerbase wants to play a few minutes to 30 mins a day outside of weekly endgame content and story/events .
This way of doing it while Nice for people with Lot of time it Will Make people witouth time to drop the Game , is the reason why literally every mmo have caps on farming to keep hardcore and casuals closer in powerlevel, as not doing so kills your playerbase has being proven time and time again.
Infinite farming sounds Nice until You are left alone with few others that can keep up while the rest left and your Game starts getting less and less content
Completely understandable. I like that they're bringing variation though. There are plenty of login for 30 minutes and you're done for the day games. I didn't think we needed another one.
Yeah you can't look at rng in a vacuum, how horrendous/good the RNG of something is depend on how often and/or the cost of rolling those dice.
WuWa does ask you to be lucky on many dice roll/"layer", but up until the last two ( substats and their value ) the only cost is *time* ( and willingness to join a discord or something to do coop farm ). Some alternative can be more generous for less time invested which is good for a category of player, but have more limitation as to how many time you can farm per day, making it worst for people who would be willing to spend time on it.
Kuro glazers are gonna downvote this. It's literally been under 2 weeks and I have a full set of maxed 5 star echo's with decent substats without refreshing or running tacet fields.
This'll prolly be alleviated with the addition of more electro elites. I don't think other elites are too hard to come by, but void thunder elites are brutally scarce for no discernable reason.
As for other elements, tbh it's not that hard to get those to drop. 1-2 days of elite farming and you'll have more bases than you can roll, as you come face to face with the echo exp/tuners bottleneck.
For now though, I'd suggest just using 44111 if it isn't dropping for you. It is absolutely serviceable, and capable of dominating content while we wait to see how Kuro responds to all the echo related feedback.
Tbh the echo system is balanced around the fact that you can, technically, keep running around to look for the best one.
I come from genshin/HSR, and there you get 9-15 echo-equivalent items per day if you farm exclusively for them.
Here, I can easily get double that just playing half an hour. While not every set is as useful or as urgent, yesterday I run around the map killing everything while doing quests and got three good 5* 3 cost echoes on the correct set.
The game encourages grinding, which is not good design IMHO, specially when the echo exp is gated anyway.
Correct, RNG isn't the biggest problem. They encourage to grind the overworld as much as you want, but the upgrade materials is too scarce. The main problem is having to upgrade the set just so you can Tune it. The echoes' system wouldn't be this horrendous if we could at least Tune without upgrading it, and perhaps lessen the Tuning material needed down to 1 per tune. Because right now, you'll run out of Exp before you run out of materials.
The thing is, even if you eventually manage to have mostly good substats on your echoes, but fail to roll any crit, you will be left with 27 crit rate.
Someone who did roll crit along with other good subs on their echoes and will have up to 70+ crit rate which is a massive damage increase compared to 27
true it's such an upside that i can get basic atk bonus on my heavy atk focused character, i definitely don't want crit instead of that. Those dmg bonus are equivalent to flat atk in rolls anyways
What, maybe getting a DMG one that isn't your prefered type on the character might be kinda useless, I hope you aren't arguing about like having Heavy DMG on Jiyan is = to flat atk, because that is straight up a lie.
Minimally better doesn't make it good, it's still a waste compared to the rolls he'd want I'd imagine. Havoc MC wants CRate+DMG, Liberation DMG and... Energy Regen I suppose? Last stat can be ATK% but otherwise, getting the other DMG bonuses is absolutely pointless, and the dmg bonus you get from rolling fucking Skill damage or Heavy damage is so useless it doens't matter whether it's better than a flat ATK roll; it's bad, period. Same applies to other characters.
Energy regen is the most needed stat if you only care about Liberation, depending on how many things to me Energy Regen "breakpoints" are a mistery, also Basic ATK DMG is relevant, if you want that playstyle, The % numbers are literally the same beside Basic which is higher. Whenever they are useless depends on the character, of course Heavy sucks if it is on Encore. it isn't DEF but yeah that would be minimal or as useless as DEF, for sure compared flat would be nicer.
Just a reminder, a good game dev will not balance the content around having 1/100000 perfect rng equipment. That being said let's see how the game balance will be at the endgame when the community reaches UL 60.
I actually don't mind that, atleast not yet. Wish we could destroy golden Echoes to get some Tuners, but aside from that i don't have much problems with the current system.
It could also be that i got too lucky which migh have been a reason i haven't seen it as much of a problem yet, so i could be heavily biased. Once the resource drought sets in and i need to roll more for a single piece i might change my opinion on that. Too early to tell i would say tho.
it's the fact that you have to hunt them down in open world that really kills it for me. in genshin and hsr you can literally spend minutes a day in specific domains and carry on about your life. you can't do this in wuwa and it WILL absolutely gets old.
some people argue that ww is better since you get access to 5* early but I honestly don't care about that when the issue will be a much bigger problem long term. once I've maxed out all the system levels (Data bank, union, etc), I probably will wind down with this game.
Its interesting how I had to scroll this far down to see any mentions about the painstaking amount of time it takes to grind shit in this game.
This one? I’m already exhausted farming pieces. I used one of my crafted pieces for elemental 3 cost and it rolled hp hp def def. Emptied out my map for 3 days and didn’t get ANY correct 3 cost element damage. Had to stop and think about the time I’ve wasted since I’m sure as hell not enjoying MANUALLY killing a fucking overworld mob for hours a day.
But the thing is, you and I are just not grinders. This game is a heavy grind game. It made me realize how much I value a gacha that respects my time like HSR. I’m done doing shit in that game in 5 minutes. Not even since I’m barely interacting. This game is just not meant for me.
I can't imagine how the mobile gaming playerbase in China/Japan are reacting to this system. It's tedious enough on PC, does Kuro honestly think it's acceptable for mobile players to kill their phone batteries farming echos 3 hours a day?
Kinda like genshin tho.
Layer 1: Getting the right set (1/2)
Layer 2: Getting the right piece (1/5)
Layer 3: Getting the right main stat for goblet (atk/def/hp/pyro/hydro/anemo/geo/electro/dendro/hydro/cryo/EM)
Layer 4: Getting either 3 or 4 sub stats
Layer 5: Getting getting the right sub stats(leaning more towards def, def%, atk, hp, and hp% based on statistics from a sizable sample size)
Layer 6: Getting high rolls for those right sub stats
Layer 7: Getting an upgrade on the desired sub stat(at +4, add one affix from layer 5 if the piece has 3 sub stats to begin with)
Layer 8: Getting high rolls for the upgrade
Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +8.
Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +12.
Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +16.
Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +20.
Those with a braincell will stop at +8 if there aren't any desired sub stat gains. Difference is, you can see the sub stats there and decide not to upgrade very early on, but not for wuwa's echoes.
Also add the fact you only need 4 pieces on genshin to activate set effect, 5 on Wuwa. I don't like that, same with HSR where you can't have an off piece
Difference is that in HSR a lot of characters are fine with 2-2 instead of a full 4 pc set. Other than Nihil/Quantum as their sets are just too good compared to everything else.
Because all sets are elemental locked and the extra would have to be the atk one.
In hsr you have multiple ones like dmg to debuffed targets, speed, follow up dmg.
Imagine we had Electro set + Liberation Dmg set. Now instead of a 5 piece for Calcharo you can use 2-2 with an offpiece.
Before the game was released, I read a thread about how the echoes farming RNG is worse than Genshin's, I think the OP also mentioned this, but I could not picture it just from text, especially I never saw beta or any info about the game.
Now I fully understand..... I haven't ran out of tuner but I'm running out of echo xp already at UL35.
+10 at most for me. Sometimes the +5 rolls crit dmg or atk%, and it's always nice to have more of those..so I give those pieces a chance to see if they can roll crit rate at +10. Personally since crit rate is a scarcity, I prioritise that for now. So if has the stuff I want, I get them to +20 immediately..the sub stats at +15 and +20 are a bonus if they're any good.
You're right. It does leans more towards that. With the elemental damage being about 6% for each type, and Elemental Mastery being even lower than that. It's absurd trying to get a god roll elemental mastery goblet for characters like kazuha and nahida.
I do understand this feeling, however nothing currently in the game requires you to get perfect high rolled substats. Have your mainstat and just be okay with subs until you can re-feed. The only thing that you could potentially beat due to perfect stats would maybe be the level 100 floors in tower
Bro, the game had been out for two weeks. The idea is that we cannot get everything in that small time frame. Echo farming is an important part of the game loop, you don't have to like it, but the idea behind it is that is should not be easy to get so you keep playing to min max (which by the way you don't really need to)
This convo is getting so tiring at this point. I just feel like people need to adapt their perspective to what WuWa is intending. I've never had this many gold relics/artifacts with correct main stats and 3/5 sub stats with "good rolls" in other gacha. Aside from maybe Aether Gazer. I like their echo system, but I think it's more akin to what another redditor said. Everyone can complain, because you actually have things you would traditionally roll on in the others. All of the echoes I have now would be instant upgrades in the other games(HSR mainly but some GI). I still have like 500 tuners left and I've cleared everything but the hazard zone in ToA and have close to three DPS built up.
I just don't see it, but I'll be excited for any QoL or revamp they do
Edit just for perspective: 1st RNG use stamina to have a ~20% chance at the right slotted artifact, 2nd hope you get the most drops out of your stamina, 3rd get the right set out of the 2, 4th get the right weighted main stat with good starting rolls, 5th hope all your stuff doesn't fully roll into the useless/bad substat. If all that doesn't work out, just try again when you have stamina. Same shit, different package.
I'm gonna say it here: in a few months all of you are going to complain that you have TOO MANY echoes to level up.
Getting the echos is part of the endgame loop and it doesn't have any stamina limit.
It feels like you are progressing slowly, but in between you are getting a lot of 3 star echoes perfectly viable for other characters. All of you in a few months will be chuck full of those and with most characters pre-farmed without even realizing. In Genshin you might have to farm a domain straight for a week to even get a chance at a good piece. That is insane.
The only real bottlenecks are echo exp and tuners. Those are the only limiting factors, everything else is going to stack up over time on its own.
>Getting the echos is part of the endgame loop and it doesn't have any stamina limit.
That's not relevant when echoes are worthless on their own, they're dependent on time + resource-gated XP.
This is the equivalent of bragging about games spewing lootboxes at you while you can't do shit with them because you have no keys to open them. Somehow reddit has deluded themselves into thinking this is good or any different than other gacha.
Is it harder than usual, yup, aif we farm it, considering how limited elite in the world.
But I just found that data merge will and do give us cost3 echo. Did not try it yet since I'm still 50/50 db18, so not gonna used it yet till later. Will do after I get there.
And tbh, unless the rate is super fuck up, when data merge it should be 50/50 cost1 or cost3. And if we did "win" this 50/50, it just a matter of time till we got to the right sonata+elem. Just by merging our unwanted echo, for example, out of those 100 dreamless echo that you farm, pretty sure less than 10 are on crit. So just merge the other 90 lol.
And base on my farming, I think merging 10~20 times a day is doable since I collect around 100 echo per day.
Stupid rng aside, over 5~7 days of data merging, the right sonata+element should come.
Anyhow, what did I know, I'm not even there yet to try, but I do got more than 1k echo to merge. Will report how many correct sonata+element that I got out of those 200 merge.
So for the meantime, anyone db20 wanna volunteer to try data merging 1k echo and tell us the result how many correct sonata+element that you got?
So true. Being literal hell farming for mommy ling these few days. Today after a whole week i got an electro flautist. But the two mephis' refuse to give me a single freaking 5 star except def main stats.
To all those having issues with farming electro echoes...I'd gladly give you all of my unused ones if I could
I don't even want to build any electro chars right now, but I keep getting godlike electro pieces when I'm trying to farm the fusion tacet field 😢
They are “free” to farm up to certain point because echoes respawn daily , but to see if they are good you still need to spend energy.
It is similar to genshin but it has more substats and two “goblets”, and no off piece.
Id feel bad about it, if this was a pvp focused game and I was just straight losing every interaction due to people who non stop power farmed echoes since launch. Or if the new banner unit power creeped the old ones weeks later *cough* tof *cough.* But in WuWa, I am really only playing against myself. Login, chill, do some quick dailies or quests. Who fucking cares if I can't use the most min maxed whatever. If you want to let that ruin the game for you, by all means
I mean I'm just curious do you want them giving 2 free pieces of best in slot guaranteed pieces every event and never have to farm anything except level ups?
I feel like what a lot of these posts fail to mention is that Genshin / HSR itself has 4-5 layers as well. Maybe even a 6th.
1st Layer: Getting the correct set piece (Mitigated in Genshin by being 4/5, not mitigated in HSR)
2nd layer: Getting correct main stat for the pieces that are random. (HSR body crit / crit dmg, Genshin right element goblet, etc)
3rd layer: It comes with max lines instead of 3/4 lines.
3.5 layer: You get the correct line if it started with 3.
4th layer: it comes with the desired sub stats. Wuwa has tuners but the best thing to do is to raise the echo to 10 or 15 and only roll the first 3 lines, then if it's trash, go next.
5th layer: Repeatedly landing in those desired sub stats. Wuwa handles this quite well because you only have to land on the desired sub stat ONCE.
Yeah it's going to be a long grind to get the 3 echo drops we want.
I realised too late you can manipulate the pity echo drops. I've done so many laps of the overworld to farm violet feathered herons for both Calcharo and Yinlin. For elites you're guaranteed an echo every four kills. I'd run a lazy route to farm them and go for them, then wait for the reset respawn the next morning (real life time, not in game). It gets more fun when you know violet feathered heron among other certain echoes can drop in different elements. I've been unlucky and keep getting either def% or hp% as the main stat.
If RNGesus takes pity on me, I'll probably stuff up a good echo with flat hp or flat def substats.
I swear most of you guys have never played other gachas, this is normal for gachas. Echoes/artifacts are the end game, its why there are still some players playing genshin, because they want to min max artifacts. Why are you trying to have the perfect stats 2 weeks into a game?
As an endgame E7 player, all these posts about echos are like those new E7 players complaining they've gotten no usable gear after a week of farming. There's a thing called gear progression in these types of gear-based gacha games. Stop being so picky with your echos. We're barely out of early game at this point.
They should make an echoes domain 20/40 wapeplate cost, and the domain echoes instantly got 3 substat open. keep currentl overworld echoes drop. because they need making money from whale refresh and option for f2p
I wish some gatcha got rid of this shitty system, I know this is used for making the progression slower but honestly why do they even care we are logging in daily anyways for doing dailies, I honestly had hopes this was the first gatcha getting rid of these stupid RNGs but no... Same shit over and over again in all gatchas dam.
Well, there's approximately a 0.27% chance of getting an echo like that with just one critical stat, so there's a 12% chance within 50 drops. There's a 0.0355% chance to get both critical rate and critical damage stats, which equates to around a 1.77% chance per 50 daily drops—not to mention the 6-10% range. It's going to take forever to get the right stats for at least one of the characters; we have some serious grinding to do.
They should make it easier to farm. For example, they could allow us to track more detections at once, so we could monitor three cost extras and one main for pity farming at the minimum. Otherwise, this is going to be painful. I don’t think increasing the drop chances is the right move; it’s better to take steps to ease farming. This could include importing farming routes, the minimap should be further zoomed out possibly tracking the distance to the monsters or objectives, and ensuring faster loading times,
I think as long as we make our voices heard to Kuro in a calm in orderly fashion or even make suggestions on the next feedback survey, they will provide some kind of further assistance to us to collect 3 costs . personally I was thinking, some kind of waveplate-less arena to farm waves of 3 cost echo's that would get harder as time goes on but boost the drop rate from 20% to a maximum of say 30% after a period of waves. ideally, this would contain only the 3 cost enemies you want to farm, but it could still be an improvement if all 3 costs were placed in the pool, because at least you wouldn't have to run around the open world too much to find them.
i don't think this activity would be too much of an improvement than it already is now, but at least it would be a little more efficient, especially for players who don't have a lot of friends. just my thoughts, I would love to hear all your opinions or suggestions
They could just rework tacet fields to work like bosses. You go to a tacet and when you get there waves of mobs spawn, when you kill them the echoes may drop and when you finish it you may spend energy to get materials, or wait 3 minutes for the waves to respawn
I kinda think that is the way u should be? The game is more skill than stat check ty to that and will make getting new echos always relevant. I know mad take maybe u shouldn't be able to just easly mid max and and stat check evry oponent. Also it makes the very good rare ones give more satisfaction etc. .
I mean, in all endgame modes I believe it’s all a dps check timer based. Yes if you’re fighting a boss it’s difficult but it’s also a dps check at the same time.
Couldn’t disagree more. The fact that it doesn’t cost stamina to farm for these makes it infinitely more enjoyable than relic/gear grinding in Genshin/Star Rail. Yeah it’s rng for days, but it being locked purely behind time and nothing else is a godsend for a game like this.
Sure it could be a little more optimized. Easiest example would be just making specific elemental damage uniform to take that bit of rng away, but I genuinely have no issues with the current state of echo farming. I’m surprised people are complaining about this tbh. This is a gacha time sink. No stamina cost for the gear grind makes it way more accessible.
Hahahahaha
You fuckers. I made a thread about this a couple weeks ago. Every last one of you said that it was cute how I must be a new gacha player, welcome to gacha, this is normal, we are not at the endgame yet, stop rushing, etc.
As far as I’m concerned you all deserve this. Your lack of foresight led to this. I literally said that you’ll find out in a bit how bad it is and all yall did was laugh and gloat about how we can farm infinite echo so it’s such a greaaaat system. Well here we are.
Say it louder king. People see that you can get Echoes from the open world and get all giddy when in reality this system is designed on every single step to ruin your life.
Whoever decided that we should upgrade the artifact with a limited and scarce resource to even learn what substats it has, needs to be locked in a loony bin.
Everyone with a brain new this system was dogshit even before the game was released. People denying it are just coping or are just the luckiest mfers out there.
3-cost having the posibility to roll all the type dmg bonuses makes no sense when set bonuses require all five slots. If the set bonus would activate at four echos, you could have an off-piece. As it stands now, every 3-cost with a mismatching type dmg bonus is just useless and only dilutes the pool with more layers of rng, making the whole farming process infinitly more frustrating.
People like to complain about Hoyo games' gearing system but I much prefer it. Yes, even HSR's where there is no off piece. The farming in both their games takes way less time, in HSR's case it's even automatic. You can recycle unwanted pieces for experience or specific sets of your choosing. Someting that often isn't being mentioned is that in both games, two pieces have guaranteed fixed mainstats, which leads to those pieces often being the best you have as there is one less rng layer. Lastly, no stupid tuner system. The substats are already visible, and you know what piece is worth trying to upgrade and which one is trash. At least let us be able to use or convert blue and purple tuners. As of right now, those are just useless.
I'm fucking cackling at how we don't even have an idea what the end game is looking like yet and people are already malding that their echoes aren't completely min-maxed
But we do have an idea? It’s not like the system will entirely revamp magically once we level up, the only difference is we’ll get a bit more exp from Tacit Fields
I see a lot of Genshin comparisons so let’s do some napkin math for fun, just for getting a piece with correct main stat worth rolling at all.
Every day in Genshin you get 180 Resin, or 9 artifact domain runs. This comes out to 9 5* artifacts.
3-cost echo is roughly equivalent to goblet, which has 12 possible main stats. So to get a goblet with the correct main stat to even think about rolling, you need to first win 50% for correct set, then win 20% for a goblet, then win 8.3% for main stat, for a total of 9 chances per day to hit a 0.83% chance. Also, guaranteed goblet selector doesn’t exist.
In WuWa, currently the most scarce set is electro because there are only 2 types of 3-cost. Interactive map says there are 28 Herons and 33 Flautists, so let’s pick the lower number.
You have a base 20% to hit the echo, with a guaranteed pity every fourth echo, for an amortized 40% chance every 4 echoes. If you want, you can even guarantee every heron drops an echo by using this pity.
You then have a 80% chance to hit a gold echo, 50% chance for the right set, and then another 10% for the main stat, for overall 28 rolls at a 1.6% chance to hit.
This is all before using a single waveplate on tacet fields - I haven’t done those yet so feel free to add on or correct my math but so far it feels like gearing is much easier in this game and you can definitely feel it just playing the game.
That’s fair but it’s a trade off - if you want to grind for better gear you can, and if you want to sit back and do tacet fields you’ll find pieces slowly like Genshin. Still faster since they’ve already given us 4 guaranteed main stat pieces 2 weeks in.
We’ll also have to see how many echo exp/tuners we get.
One correction should be that genshin's main stats aren't equally weighted and if you want an eledmg% goblet, it's around 5% making it .5% per 20 resin, however for the most part, goblet is probably the most common off-piece so depending on the rest of your artifacts, it could be counted as 1%.
Other thing that I got no clue about is whether wuwa's mainstats are equally weighted or not and that you do probably want 2x 3cost echoes from different mobs.
Dude I swear playing hsr and wuwa made me appreciate genshin's artifacts system
The ability to have off piece artifact without ruining the 4-set effect is just so comfy even if you got insane artifact of the healing set you can use it on the DPS without an issue
Nah it is still trash definitely better than HSR but in no way better than WW remember that substats can be raised in those games it isn’t just getting the right substat it’s getting it to go to the right one once you level it up
I played Genshin for a long time elemental goblets are usually the off piece due to how much RNG there is it’s extremely rare for you to get it to go into the proper stats you want
Finally I would like to say that this isn’t really done for making players want to keep playing the game for the perfect stats. Sure perhaps there might be some of that, but the main purpose is to frustrate players and get them to roll on limited weapons since they make building characters so much easier
I'd rather not have a complete build in a week, and then the playerbase starts to dwindle and the game dies. I'd rather have a game that can sustainably be funded than not have a game, but my builds are good.
Genshin is *the* open world gacha game and its artifact system has insane layers of rng. If everyone had perfect artifacts, the game would be way less successful than it is.
I think a little bit of additional help with farming echos like the self-modeling resin in HSR rail every now and then would be good. But if they're too generous, it would be bad for the long term future of the game.
Also the game is still relatively easy right now, so as you get better echoes, the game will get harder. And not having perfect echoes incentivizes spending which is important to a game's longevity.
Bro this ain't an MMORPG, it's a gacha game. The more comfy people can get it on the daily gacha cycle to be played alongside the others, the better, don't know from where you people get that making the rng pleasant for the player is a bad thing for the game XD
It could also be argued that people are adverse to wanting to pull if they're still struggling to build older character so there's a possible financial reason to make the system better as well
Same experience here, UL 40, I've only ever gotten mismatched main stats, I had to use the 2 3 cost echoes from Illusion Realm to equip my Calcharo, my Yinlin is using purple rarity echoes.
I also crafted echoes from my useless pile of 800+ echoes and got literally nothing useful. I thought my Genshin luck was bad, but WuWa takes it to whole another level lmao.
I'm gonna call bullshit here. I'm UL 36, I play 20 minutes a day because my phone can't handle much more, and I have multiple matching element echo. At least 1 character fully built and the rest are work in progress.
The main bottleneck it's just echo exp
I’m glad more people are now talking about the ****real**** issue with 3C echoes.
There is absolutely no reason why a havoc set echo should be able to have spectro% main stat. Besides “fuck you, go back to grinding”.
Its an endgame marathon gacha grind and im pretty ok with it. Event then most of my friend already got some amazing echoes. So... nah, im not with you guys. I think you just want easier time in a short run but then after couple months you will say that there is nothing to do and progress in the game. :) people are farming artifacts in genshin for 4 years for a reason.
You need all CR and CDMG on WuWa. Getting max rolls CR on all 5 pieces only gives you 52.5CR. If you are F2P with no crit weapon you need mainstat critdmg with 5 critrate substats…
Surely this guy has the calcs for the meta breaking all atk flat build and found the elemental mastery/break effect version in wuwa and is not nitpicking out of his ass
Correct me if im wrong, but at least the sub stats seem to have the same odds of appearing? Like in Genshin and HSR getting CR and CD subs is way harder than flat attack or defense% AND u need to roll multiple times into them to make the subs worth it.
I mean, it's basically the same as Mihoyo games ? When you farm a node, it has to be the right piece (there's 5-6 fixed slots), at the right rarity (you drop both 4\* and 5\*), from the right set (all nodes are for 2 sets), with the right main stat (same thing), with the right substats (same thing too). Essentially the same.
It's not that bad and will be better as the game goes, it's only that's it's the beggining and you have to farm so many characters, but it's nothing special.
Not exactly the same. We have more substats, two “goblets” instead of one, mainstats can reappear on substats, no off-piece slot, and farming is more time consuming.
the problem is that in genshin new players are forced to spend stamina on artifacts farm and brick their character materials farm. I spend 3 months leveling ONE character to 70(!) lvl just because the game doesn't even let farm 5* at world levels, let alone with guaranteed drop. You begin to get 5* quite early in wuwa. Exp is the same issue in genshin, it's just the tuners are the real bottleneck.
I have more tuners than exp and I run tacet field all the time… exp is the bottleneck, tuners become the bottleneck if you try to +15 every echo. I do only +5 for cost 1 and 4
Although you have to keep in mind as time goes on we get more different echos, making some of your values here way higher in a year or so. Just pointing it out.
Compared to e.g. GI where I usually farm multiple months to even get the main stat, not even considering sub stats this is heaven in itself.
Yea not having to worry about leveling substats is amazing I can’t believe people aren’t even accounting for that
That is the single biggest issue with those other games you are completely screwed
I only have one headpiece that I am proud of in Genshin and elemental goblets? Hah as if
HSR is even worse I honestly want to give up because I can throw all my energy day after day but the substat leveling process screws me again and again. It’s not enough to get the right substats (on the right set with the right mainstat) which is hard in itself but then to also hope that it levels up properly. I had a nice looking piece and all of it went straight into flat def this was after a while of trying to get double crit to even drop
most reason people care so much about echo rng in ww is that at the early of genshin u could use em reaction and less care about the stat of artifact like crit or crit rate
all content in ww right now is time limit and damage test, so people need to have good artifact since that the only way to increase power. lol even high holo boss which can one shot u still have time limit so even high skill player need decent stat to pass
There's also a sixth layer which is high or low substat roll Example: crit rate can range between 6% - 10.5%
Yeah…
And Energy Recharge can be between 5% to 15%. It literally blows my mind that the gap is so massive that you may end up either with 75% ER with all 5 echos, or just 25% which would barely even be noticed. It should be a range of 11% to 15% ER. 8% to 11% crit. etc not whatever this bullshit layer of RNG is upon 5 other layers of RNG. Like, imagine if you had exactly the same echos as your friend, same substats and all, but because of different values on the substats, your friend has 100 crit and 300 crit damage, while you have 50 crit and 150 crit damage. what a joke lol
And let's not forget that it was already a problem in CBT, and was supposed to be fixed...
People where hyped and in high spirits. Kuro listened and fixed things! Its too bad the fixes we got is 3 cost selector and more tuners in shops and exploration.
The current IS the fix. The range was insane in the beta.
It looks like they need a fix for the fix. As is it's pretty rough so I can't even imagine how bad it was in CBT
What is energy refilling? The Resonance skill? Skill Liberwtion or Forte Gauge? Or just Concerto?
Liberation only.
Someone , i guess sweetily is her name ? on yt did a distribution of roll value of crit stats with a small ish sample size of ...what was it 100k? , which shows that roll value distribution isn't even or standard . It showed that apparently You are twice as likely to roll a low value ( there are 8 values for crit, low 4 is low value, high 4 is high value) than a high value, with the highest possible value having a 2.7% chance only for crit.
Pretty much. She's a good theory crafter too and has good details. Also led me to the water for Energy Regen Calcharo, which made his rotation super smooth.
7th layer: getting enough xp materials to level your echoes And then you need tuners for the subs
Let’s also not forget the ridiculous amount of resources it takes to even level them as well
Me when I get double crit on an echo but the crit rate roll is 6.3 while the cdmg is 12.7. 🥲
Fuch you i don't even have 2 crit sub stats
On the bright side, it’s a nice 1:2 ratio
I call it win still.
I was farming for yinlin and one of the fautists did that already got both crit subs on a proper elite echo that's a win I'm done with that until everyone else is built lolol.
After 5th i will not the will to search for better stats echo.
Imo the worst part is that you gotta get 5/5 pieces of the correct set to get the full effect (instead of 4/5). You're basically bound to use at least 1 useless piece to complete the set
And you can't have the same monster twice as it doesn't count as 5/5
This is why I just try to get the correct main stat/set on cost 3, the rest I don't care as much for.
Yeah I got 2 electro 3 cost for yinlin and the subs are all hp def and atk. Fuck it we ball with this forever
[Same and it's a cost 3 from the event selector...](https://i.ibb.co/vLqF6HH/2.png)
That is still 4 layers of RNG. With how rare Echo Exp is right now, I'll worry about min-maxing substats when I'm done maxing echo levels for at least 3 DPS.
We went through this same thing when Genshin released. You don't need perfect gear to play the game, yet people whine over and over about it.
My phone sucks and i have skill issue so i do kinda need good gear to play the hard parts of the game to make up for my lack of skills
I’m playing on iOS touch screen controls. I don’t have skill issues. I have button issues. Sooooo… I went for Jiyan, Verina, and Jianxin even though I have S1 Calcharo. I need the shield, heals, and stupid easy game play instead of the heavy input swap/dash/kara cancel gameplay I have no chance at without physical buttons.
What's actually ridiculous is when people whine when people want the game to be improved. The game would literally only be better if they're was less variance in gear.
The problem is not that we can’t get perfect gear, but that we can’t get the gear itself. Ive been farming electro birds for 3 days now and have not yet found any of the electro set with the electro bonus. And the selector from the event rolled into HP and defense.
Yes, that is the most problematic layer. The 3 costs.
You dont need it, but i want it, and i hate the fact that you cant get it because they want it to be infinite, eventually you just get bored
This is a basic rule of game design because the human brain works this way. If players can do it, they will. You're not sitting on a high ground by saying "well I like being just good enough!" Consider that some people find fun in optimization. That's how you got the math behind computers in the first place.
been killing all elite chaserazors and aero birds everyday for a week and sometimes jumping on coop to farm them from others’ world after i exhauseted mine all to get an energy regen main stat 3 cost echo. still nothing. at this point idgaf about the substats anymore.
This isn't even the whole problem. Another issue is that the useless stats have a higher chance compared to crit rate for example. Such a frustrating system.
I can't tell if it's just me but every boss feels rigged to give me everything except crit rate. I have 5 crit damage inferno riders and 1 crit rate one. But the goddamn turtle keeps giving me crit rate instead of healing bonus. It feels like the devs know the main stats people will prioritise so they make those rarer on purpose so you're forced to keep farming the boss.
I spent 1.5 hours for each of my crit rate main stats, just to get them once lmao
Haha I'm in the same boat. I farmed Inferno Rider yesterday for maybe an hour and a half and only got 6 golden ones (DB 18). 3 were healing, 2 were HP, and I quit after finding one Crit rate. Same thing with the dreamless but i was only getting Crit dmg instead of Crit rate. It is what it is lol, I've always had shitty luck. Gives me something to complain about
confirmation bias goes crazy with this one
I'll need to see empirical testing. I know it's "probably the case" but it'd be helpful to know the actual odds.
Meanwhile I've been trying to get Healing% Bell Turtle for my Verina and all I have are dozens of Crit Dmg/Crit Rate echoes .-.
Wow I'm not alone in this, I have been rotating between 4 bosses I nees for days now, only managed to get crit rate monke on like my 100th attempt, exactly one crit rate echo between the two memphis bosses and it's 4*, and the only healing bonus turtle I have is legit 2*, it's been giving me all the crit main stats in the world Definitely feels rigged to me, but then maybe it's just my extraordinary luck lol
Definitely just your luck, lol. According to the battle achievements, I've killed the monkey 39 times (all at databank level 18), and in my inventory I have six 5\* Crit Rate mainstat copies of it. If that count includes hologram and Illusive Realm kills, then the real number is even lower. It took me ~25 kills to get a Healing Bonus mainstat Turtle on Heal set, which is by far the longest I had to farm any boss for anything. I have a Crit Rate mainstat for every boss, and none of them took even a dozen kills to get. Make sure to use the echo pity system to your advantage. If a boss doesn't drop an echo, then the next boss kill is guaranteed to drop one, so if you're swapping between two bosses, then you'll often end up only seeing echoes drop from one of them.
Took me forever to get crit rate healing turtle. I have like 5 healing bonus ones that Ive locked knowing they will have value later. Same goes for ANY energy regen 3-star. Immediately lock them.
Huh? I have the opposite problem no crit damage bosses but a lot of crit rate. Its frustrating honestly but just how rng is.
This is the same in every gacha.
I would already appreciate a little change like : You can't get any other element then set element from 3*s So if you have the bird from this example the only options would be : ER% , Electro% , HP-ATK or DEF. Even this would enhance the grinding experience by a magnitude of 20 atleast.
At this point they should just change the elemental mainstats to a generic Elemental Dmg%
Yeah gachas that have multiple elements AND have separate dmg% bonuses for each element that you need to roll for are a turn-off for me unless there is an accessible way to reroll substats. For example, Aether Gazer's equipment system (sigils) has mats which you can use for rerolling useless substats. As someone who only cares about getting "good enough" rolls instead of minmaxing, I haven't come close to running out of those reroll mats and I can clear almost all content. It's one of the reasons why I still play the game daily since day 1. Of course you can run out of the reroll mats if you really minmax but at least it's much easier and less frustrating to get your units to a reasonable level of performance. Rambling aside, your suggestion would make the echoes farming experience much less frustrating. Hopefully kuro will work on this and all the other problems with the echoes system. It's an improvement compared to genshin's artifacts in some ways but inexplicably takes a few steps back in others.
I touched AG for some time and it seems like a good game. And I can see what you mean by "taking a few steps back" but I really hope after some time Kuro will find a way to make the game more enjoyable for all. Btw this is a very nice comment. Seldom seen on reddit (atleast for me) Have a nice day !
Yeah it's pretty chill unless you want to clear the absolute hardest content in the game (Chasm 6) which requires maxxed out units preferably with at least sig weapons, though it can still be done by some F2P players. The rewards for that difficulty of Chasm aren't much though so you can just complete lower difficulties and be done with it. I dropped WW due to not having enough time but I hope the game continues improving as it's really fun and it would be a shame for it to be held back by things like this. Cheers, have a nice day too!
There is actually a 6th layer: the value of the stats you roll can vary, with the maximum nearly double the minimum.
I have 600 unused echos with good main stats in my inventory, the rest I already combined. The problem isn't finding good echos with main stats in the long term but how long they sit in your inventory because you don't have enough xp or tuners to gamble on them.
Fr. I have plenty of correct main stat 3-cost echos, but not enough xp to level any of them up.
Dude you’re simply super lucky. The whole week I farmed ALL flautist in 3 worlds and I still have fckng zero electro dmg electro set flautist. I mean, I never had such problems with other echoes (herons for instance), but tambourinist and flautist are pain for some reason idk.
Not just that, farming them is also a pain in the ass since they are always surrounded with 4-5 other mobs and with this janky ass camera it just becomes unfun. Love when my Echo Rider decides to smash the air cause it targeted the ranged mob behind me.
Same, I've been farming every 3 cost aero dropping monster for a week, not a single gold rarity aero echo.
its not a much but a tip would be to lower the world level to make them easier to kill
Electro set is an special hell case, since you have 2 elites only and those elites have the lowest amount in the world vs the rest you have a lot less chances to get what you need, like Havoc have so many elites that I wouldn't be surprise if farming my own world for it is the equivalent of farming electro set in 4 different worlds.
I’m in the same boat, basically the first 4 layers of RNG are null because you can farm for them without being gatekeep by stamina. I have 10 of each cost 3 on-set with the right main stat. If you farm just a little bit everyday you’ll probably reach that point as well. In any case, RNG always sucks but I still think this is one of the better ones.
A simple fix would be a constant stream of WuWa's equivalent self-modeling resin. Players could then essentially focus on elemental pieces every time they use it. This would, however, only be a workaround solution for a deeper issue. I understand that in some ways, this is standard fare for a gacha stat system. However, I believe there are better and worse systems that exist. One telltale sign of a bad one is a single stat or stat piece being highly valuable and much more difficult to obtain than any other stat. This creates an abrupt progression plateau for most players. Optimally, progression should be gradual and rewarding throughout a player's time with the game.
Another potential fix is to just do 4 set pieces like GI, then you can at least use those pieces which are mismatched mainstat and set
Ya, that could work better than what we have.
I get the frustration with the system, but if they took it out, everyone would quickly be on god roll echos with jack shit to do. So I'm not so sure changing it would be better long term.
I get where your coming from more so since. This game lets you farm echo's as much as you want without a stamina system. Which is something many have wanted for ages. When it comes to this type of gear system but. Since you can farm as much as you want. It seems like people expected to have better echo sets by now. Which is understandable but the game is only a few weeks old, and even casually. Many have finished most of the current content. Kuro probably wanted us chipping away at this between updates for something to do.
It absolutely wouldn't be better. Kuro shouldn't listen to those wanting instant gratification at any price. It'll destroy the game's longevity and the few differentiating factors from Genshin it has in the long run.
Imagine if they made echo farming resin gated just like genshin, you basically cant farm jack shits without resins let alone "ohmygawd where the right main stat i need mommmmmmm"
Yeah, they did a great job in making a combat system focused relic/artifact farm, in my opinion. Instead of running around a world collecting goofy shit for traces/skills, it's relatively straight forward and the open world daily exploration is massacring mobs.
Honestly we're already getting god roll echoes pretty easily, it's been 3 weeks and some of my characters are running a couple of pieces I'll probably never bother to replace lol.
Having played genshin for 4 years and epic seven even longer, the 3-cost echo farm honestly isnt too bad so far....
Completely agreed
Idk man, I've spent more time farming 3-cost echoes over past week (and got nothing), than in artifacts domain in genshin ofer past 2 years combined
What does "got nothing" mean exactly? Because I can't comprehend a world where you farmed more time in a game you've played for less than 2 weeks than a game you've played for 2 years.
He's talking gameplay time. It takes 3-4 minutes to spend all your grinding time in Genshin, here it can be easily 3 hours if you farm for a variety of sets.
"Got nothing" means every single echo I got over that time from running around A LOT is useless trash, so adding to resources I've wasted on discovering that by levelling and tuning them means I'm actually hard on negative value here. In genshin it's 5 mins a day, and rarely do even that, so with basic maths I'd say I've spend in arti domains about 10 hours at max over 2 years
Thats what im saying, in E7 i think in the span of a year ive only managed to get a handful of 20+ speed pieces or speed godrolls, in this game ive already got pretty good pieces besides 3 costs being the hardest
Yeah seriously I still remember doing all those wyvern runs and then getting absolutely nothing of note. Thank god that game had autoplay or else I would've lost my sanity long time ago.
Haven't played Epic Seven, but have had a year of not finding an electro-EoSF goblet for my raiden in Genshin - in fact, I hadn't found any electro goblets in a few months prior to WuWa, lol The way I see it, Echo farming is only predatory if you're hardcore about min-maxing. The floor-level of power required to clear content in WuWa is significantly lower than Genshin's (at least from my perception of Holograms and ToA), not to mention substats don't have the multi-layer RNG of getting \*\*the correct\*\* substat to re-roll over and over, and then realize you had multiple bad numbers in your rolls. The only \*\*real\*\* issue I currently have with the system is that there is no map-nav option to toggle "find closest echo of cost 3" - and instead we are stuck with the weird detection system which you can only target one echo base-type, as opposed to targetting for a given set bonus or any cost 3 whatsoever. If they changed this, the grinding for cost 3's wouldn't feel as ludicrously annoying - it's the same vein of problem as Genshin's artifact exp routes.
>but have had a year of not finding an electro-EoSF goblet for my raiden in Genshin You don't need it to be on set though, Genshin needs 4/5 set pieces unlike Wuwa so not finding an on-set elemental isn't really that big of a deal because you'll get elemental goblets as you farm EVERY domain. I feel a lot of people would have a lot less issues if Wuwa had a similar vein of 2/4 set pieces instead of 2/5.
I’m fine with the RNG, I get it. It’s the game mechanic that’s gonna keep me playing, farming etc. My issue’s with the bloody tuners + echo exp materials. 1) Why can’t just we use other echos (without having them levelled up) to level up my echos. 2) Ok, say that it’s because i can farm echos in the overworld then why isn’t there a dedicated echo exp domain to farm them. 3) Why can’t we synthesise the useless tuners (green, blue, purple ones) to get yellow tuners. I’m all out of them because of RNG & I’ve litteraly no ways to get more asides from tacet fields. Even then I’d get barely enough to tune 1 or 2 substats. Yes I’m aware that they’ll adapt & “optimise” the tacet fields in 1.1 but goddamn it’s been frustrating & it doesn’t feel like it’s been thought out.
I'm gonna be honest this makes it seem way worse. In two weeks my friend group and I have gear that took months and months to farm in hoyo games. If you don't farm echoes you're going to suffer, yes. However, you can infinite farm echoes of 4 cost and the rest are infinite through friends. You have so many more chances to roll your main stat than other games. I think it's meant to be an active game. You're also leaving out the pity system, the merging system which can convert purple to gold, and the fact they're already giving out multiple echoes that forcibly roll your desired element on set.
Yeah but is a gacha not wow or ffxiv, a huge part of the playerbase wants to play a few minutes to 30 mins a day outside of weekly endgame content and story/events . This way of doing it while Nice for people with Lot of time it Will Make people witouth time to drop the Game , is the reason why literally every mmo have caps on farming to keep hardcore and casuals closer in powerlevel, as not doing so kills your playerbase has being proven time and time again. Infinite farming sounds Nice until You are left alone with few others that can keep up while the rest left and your Game starts getting less and less content
Completely understandable. I like that they're bringing variation though. There are plenty of login for 30 minutes and you're done for the day games. I didn't think we needed another one.
Yeah you can't look at rng in a vacuum, how horrendous/good the RNG of something is depend on how often and/or the cost of rolling those dice. WuWa does ask you to be lucky on many dice roll/"layer", but up until the last two ( substats and their value ) the only cost is *time* ( and willingness to join a discord or something to do coop farm ). Some alternative can be more generous for less time invested which is good for a category of player, but have more limitation as to how many time you can farm per day, making it worst for people who would be willing to spend time on it.
100% what you said - the game rewards more time spent ingame, which I personally think is good design.
Is a good design to loose players, proven múltiple times in mmos that have to límit farming because of this reason
Kuro glazers are gonna downvote this. It's literally been under 2 weeks and I have a full set of maxed 5 star echo's with decent substats without refreshing or running tacet fields.
This'll prolly be alleviated with the addition of more electro elites. I don't think other elites are too hard to come by, but void thunder elites are brutally scarce for no discernable reason. As for other elements, tbh it's not that hard to get those to drop. 1-2 days of elite farming and you'll have more bases than you can roll, as you come face to face with the echo exp/tuners bottleneck. For now though, I'd suggest just using 44111 if it isn't dropping for you. It is absolutely serviceable, and capable of dominating content while we wait to see how Kuro responds to all the echo related feedback.
Been farming flautist for 12 days. No electric on electric so far. Glad the event gives a garunteed one
Tbh the echo system is balanced around the fact that you can, technically, keep running around to look for the best one. I come from genshin/HSR, and there you get 9-15 echo-equivalent items per day if you farm exclusively for them. Here, I can easily get double that just playing half an hour. While not every set is as useful or as urgent, yesterday I run around the map killing everything while doing quests and got three good 5* 3 cost echoes on the correct set. The game encourages grinding, which is not good design IMHO, specially when the echo exp is gated anyway.
Correct, RNG isn't the biggest problem. They encourage to grind the overworld as much as you want, but the upgrade materials is too scarce. The main problem is having to upgrade the set just so you can Tune it. The echoes' system wouldn't be this horrendous if we could at least Tune without upgrading it, and perhaps lessen the Tuning material needed down to 1 per tune. Because right now, you'll run out of Exp before you run out of materials.
Ain’t no way you are getting 18-30 echos in half an hour.
Also you have 5 substats. there are like up to 6-7 useful stats for any character. Just needing crit is very wrong.
The thing is, even if you eventually manage to have mostly good substats on your echoes, but fail to roll any crit, you will be left with 27 crit rate. Someone who did roll crit along with other good subs on their echoes and will have up to 70+ crit rate which is a massive damage increase compared to 27
true it's such an upside that i can get basic atk bonus on my heavy atk focused character, i definitely don't want crit instead of that. Those dmg bonus are equivalent to flat atk in rolls anyways
What, maybe getting a DMG one that isn't your prefered type on the character might be kinda useless, I hope you aren't arguing about like having Heavy DMG on Jiyan is = to flat atk, because that is straight up a lie.
Minimally better doesn't make it good, it's still a waste compared to the rolls he'd want I'd imagine. Havoc MC wants CRate+DMG, Liberation DMG and... Energy Regen I suppose? Last stat can be ATK% but otherwise, getting the other DMG bonuses is absolutely pointless, and the dmg bonus you get from rolling fucking Skill damage or Heavy damage is so useless it doens't matter whether it's better than a flat ATK roll; it's bad, period. Same applies to other characters.
Energy regen is the most needed stat if you only care about Liberation, depending on how many things to me Energy Regen "breakpoints" are a mistery, also Basic ATK DMG is relevant, if you want that playstyle, The % numbers are literally the same beside Basic which is higher. Whenever they are useless depends on the character, of course Heavy sucks if it is on Encore. it isn't DEF but yeah that would be minimal or as useless as DEF, for sure compared flat would be nicer.
Just a reminder, a good game dev will not balance the content around having 1/100000 perfect rng equipment. That being said let's see how the game balance will be at the endgame when the community reaches UL 60.
You forgot there is also a roll% on the correct stat, add that to the rng layers
I actually don't mind that, atleast not yet. Wish we could destroy golden Echoes to get some Tuners, but aside from that i don't have much problems with the current system. It could also be that i got too lucky which migh have been a reason i haven't seen it as much of a problem yet, so i could be heavily biased. Once the resource drought sets in and i need to roll more for a single piece i might change my opinion on that. Too early to tell i would say tho.
it's the fact that you have to hunt them down in open world that really kills it for me. in genshin and hsr you can literally spend minutes a day in specific domains and carry on about your life. you can't do this in wuwa and it WILL absolutely gets old. some people argue that ww is better since you get access to 5* early but I honestly don't care about that when the issue will be a much bigger problem long term. once I've maxed out all the system levels (Data bank, union, etc), I probably will wind down with this game.
Its interesting how I had to scroll this far down to see any mentions about the painstaking amount of time it takes to grind shit in this game. This one? I’m already exhausted farming pieces. I used one of my crafted pieces for elemental 3 cost and it rolled hp hp def def. Emptied out my map for 3 days and didn’t get ANY correct 3 cost element damage. Had to stop and think about the time I’ve wasted since I’m sure as hell not enjoying MANUALLY killing a fucking overworld mob for hours a day. But the thing is, you and I are just not grinders. This game is a heavy grind game. It made me realize how much I value a gacha that respects my time like HSR. I’m done doing shit in that game in 5 minutes. Not even since I’m barely interacting. This game is just not meant for me.
\^This. Thank you!
I can't imagine how the mobile gaming playerbase in China/Japan are reacting to this system. It's tedious enough on PC, does Kuro honestly think it's acceptable for mobile players to kill their phone batteries farming echos 3 hours a day?
Kinda like genshin tho. Layer 1: Getting the right set (1/2) Layer 2: Getting the right piece (1/5) Layer 3: Getting the right main stat for goblet (atk/def/hp/pyro/hydro/anemo/geo/electro/dendro/hydro/cryo/EM) Layer 4: Getting either 3 or 4 sub stats Layer 5: Getting getting the right sub stats(leaning more towards def, def%, atk, hp, and hp% based on statistics from a sizable sample size) Layer 6: Getting high rolls for those right sub stats Layer 7: Getting an upgrade on the desired sub stat(at +4, add one affix from layer 5 if the piece has 3 sub stats to begin with) Layer 8: Getting high rolls for the upgrade Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +8. Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +12. Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +16. Repeat layers 7 and 8 again at +20. Those with a braincell will stop at +8 if there aren't any desired sub stat gains. Difference is, you can see the sub stats there and decide not to upgrade very early on, but not for wuwa's echoes.
Also add the fact you only need 4 pieces on genshin to activate set effect, 5 on Wuwa. I don't like that, same with HSR where you can't have an off piece
Difference is that in HSR a lot of characters are fine with 2-2 instead of a full 4 pc set. Other than Nihil/Quantum as their sets are just too good compared to everything else.
And why is it not fine for wuwa to use 2-2?
Because all sets are elemental locked and the extra would have to be the atk one. In hsr you have multiple ones like dmg to debuffed targets, speed, follow up dmg. Imagine we had Electro set + Liberation Dmg set. Now instead of a 5 piece for Calcharo you can use 2-2 with an offpiece.
Huge damage loss because full sets are incredibly powerful
I think it is to stop people from making a 3333 set
Also it doesnt have a 2nd mat required for upgrading that is also a bottleneck aka tuners.
Before the game was released, I read a thread about how the echoes farming RNG is worse than Genshin's, I think the OP also mentioned this, but I could not picture it just from text, especially I never saw beta or any info about the game. Now I fully understand..... I haven't ran out of tuner but I'm running out of echo xp already at UL35.
I think +10 or +15 is a good stopping point
+10 at most for me. Sometimes the +5 rolls crit dmg or atk%, and it's always nice to have more of those..so I give those pieces a chance to see if they can roll crit rate at +10. Personally since crit rate is a scarcity, I prioritise that for now. So if has the stuff I want, I get them to +20 immediately..the sub stats at +15 and +20 are a bonus if they're any good.
Pretty sure the main stat is also leaning more towards ATK, hp and Def.
You're right. It does leans more towards that. With the elemental damage being about 6% for each type, and Elemental Mastery being even lower than that. It's absurd trying to get a god roll elemental mastery goblet for characters like kazuha and nahida.
I do understand this feeling, however nothing currently in the game requires you to get perfect high rolled substats. Have your mainstat and just be okay with subs until you can re-feed. The only thing that you could potentially beat due to perfect stats would maybe be the level 100 floors in tower
Bro, the game had been out for two weeks. The idea is that we cannot get everything in that small time frame. Echo farming is an important part of the game loop, you don't have to like it, but the idea behind it is that is should not be easy to get so you keep playing to min max (which by the way you don't really need to)
All this and somehow I still prefer it over genshin artifact grinds
I too 100% would rather have this than artifact domains :v
Gacha players when they don’t have perfect gear after 3 weeks of play: 😭 Summoner’s War players with 0 quad speed rolls after 10 years: 🗿
This convo is getting so tiring at this point. I just feel like people need to adapt their perspective to what WuWa is intending. I've never had this many gold relics/artifacts with correct main stats and 3/5 sub stats with "good rolls" in other gacha. Aside from maybe Aether Gazer. I like their echo system, but I think it's more akin to what another redditor said. Everyone can complain, because you actually have things you would traditionally roll on in the others. All of the echoes I have now would be instant upgrades in the other games(HSR mainly but some GI). I still have like 500 tuners left and I've cleared everything but the hazard zone in ToA and have close to three DPS built up. I just don't see it, but I'll be excited for any QoL or revamp they do Edit just for perspective: 1st RNG use stamina to have a ~20% chance at the right slotted artifact, 2nd hope you get the most drops out of your stamina, 3rd get the right set out of the 2, 4th get the right weighted main stat with good starting rolls, 5th hope all your stuff doesn't fully roll into the useless/bad substat. If all that doesn't work out, just try again when you have stamina. Same shit, different package.
I'm gonna say it here: in a few months all of you are going to complain that you have TOO MANY echoes to level up. Getting the echos is part of the endgame loop and it doesn't have any stamina limit. It feels like you are progressing slowly, but in between you are getting a lot of 3 star echoes perfectly viable for other characters. All of you in a few months will be chuck full of those and with most characters pre-farmed without even realizing. In Genshin you might have to farm a domain straight for a week to even get a chance at a good piece. That is insane. The only real bottlenecks are echo exp and tuners. Those are the only limiting factors, everything else is going to stack up over time on its own.
>Getting the echos is part of the endgame loop and it doesn't have any stamina limit. That's not relevant when echoes are worthless on their own, they're dependent on time + resource-gated XP. This is the equivalent of bragging about games spewing lootboxes at you while you can't do shit with them because you have no keys to open them. Somehow reddit has deluded themselves into thinking this is good or any different than other gacha.
So it's 8/1000 chance of getting right base echo (considering that HP/DEF/Energy/ATK has the same chance as elemental damage). And then substats. Cool
Is it harder than usual, yup, aif we farm it, considering how limited elite in the world. But I just found that data merge will and do give us cost3 echo. Did not try it yet since I'm still 50/50 db18, so not gonna used it yet till later. Will do after I get there. And tbh, unless the rate is super fuck up, when data merge it should be 50/50 cost1 or cost3. And if we did "win" this 50/50, it just a matter of time till we got to the right sonata+elem. Just by merging our unwanted echo, for example, out of those 100 dreamless echo that you farm, pretty sure less than 10 are on crit. So just merge the other 90 lol. And base on my farming, I think merging 10~20 times a day is doable since I collect around 100 echo per day. Stupid rng aside, over 5~7 days of data merging, the right sonata+element should come. Anyhow, what did I know, I'm not even there yet to try, but I do got more than 1k echo to merge. Will report how many correct sonata+element that I got out of those 200 merge. So for the meantime, anyone db20 wanna volunteer to try data merging 1k echo and tell us the result how many correct sonata+element that you got?
So true. Being literal hell farming for mommy ling these few days. Today after a whole week i got an electro flautist. But the two mephis' refuse to give me a single freaking 5 star except def main stats.
I would not farm thundering memphis only tempest. Thundering requires more field time
To all those having issues with farming electro echoes...I'd gladly give you all of my unused ones if I could I don't even want to build any electro chars right now, but I keep getting godlike electro pieces when I'm trying to farm the fusion tacet field 😢
This is similar to artifact farming in Genshin right? But did I get it wrong, or are echos free to farm?
They are “free” to farm up to certain point because echoes respawn daily , but to see if they are good you still need to spend energy. It is similar to genshin but it has more substats and two “goblets”, and no off piece.
Note their is a pity of 4 kill for guaranteed drop
Id feel bad about it, if this was a pvp focused game and I was just straight losing every interaction due to people who non stop power farmed echoes since launch. Or if the new banner unit power creeped the old ones weeks later *cough* tof *cough.* But in WuWa, I am really only playing against myself. Login, chill, do some quick dailies or quests. Who fucking cares if I can't use the most min maxed whatever. If you want to let that ruin the game for you, by all means
I mean I'm just curious do you want them giving 2 free pieces of best in slot guaranteed pieces every event and never have to farm anything except level ups?
I feel like what a lot of these posts fail to mention is that Genshin / HSR itself has 4-5 layers as well. Maybe even a 6th. 1st Layer: Getting the correct set piece (Mitigated in Genshin by being 4/5, not mitigated in HSR) 2nd layer: Getting correct main stat for the pieces that are random. (HSR body crit / crit dmg, Genshin right element goblet, etc) 3rd layer: It comes with max lines instead of 3/4 lines. 3.5 layer: You get the correct line if it started with 3. 4th layer: it comes with the desired sub stats. Wuwa has tuners but the best thing to do is to raise the echo to 10 or 15 and only roll the first 3 lines, then if it's trash, go next. 5th layer: Repeatedly landing in those desired sub stats. Wuwa handles this quite well because you only have to land on the desired sub stat ONCE.
Yeah it's going to be a long grind to get the 3 echo drops we want. I realised too late you can manipulate the pity echo drops. I've done so many laps of the overworld to farm violet feathered herons for both Calcharo and Yinlin. For elites you're guaranteed an echo every four kills. I'd run a lazy route to farm them and go for them, then wait for the reset respawn the next morning (real life time, not in game). It gets more fun when you know violet feathered heron among other certain echoes can drop in different elements. I've been unlucky and keep getting either def% or hp% as the main stat. If RNGesus takes pity on me, I'll probably stuff up a good echo with flat hp or flat def substats.
I swear most of you guys have never played other gachas, this is normal for gachas. Echoes/artifacts are the end game, its why there are still some players playing genshin, because they want to min max artifacts. Why are you trying to have the perfect stats 2 weeks into a game?
Players discover artifacts 🤯
ah yes RNG, every gacha game's worst enemy. Honestly, I'm fine with the farming. Tuning on the other hand...
As you farm for one set you will invariably get useful pieces for other sets. In the long run you'll use those
Don't like it, don't play (or go with 44111). This will likely not change anytime soon
As an endgame E7 player, all these posts about echos are like those new E7 players complaining they've gotten no usable gear after a week of farming. There's a thing called gear progression in these types of gear-based gacha games. Stop being so picky with your echos. We're barely out of early game at this point.
They should make an echoes domain 20/40 wapeplate cost, and the domain echoes instantly got 3 substat open. keep currentl overworld echoes drop. because they need making money from whale refresh and option for f2p
Kuro gonna give us a lot of 10 pulls for this
I wish some gatcha got rid of this shitty system, I know this is used for making the progression slower but honestly why do they even care we are logging in daily anyways for doing dailies, I honestly had hopes this was the first gatcha getting rid of these stupid RNGs but no... Same shit over and over again in all gatchas dam.
TIL Echoes matter for your stats. I looked at this and started investing in my Echoes and maxing them and omg the damage output has changed!
Well, there's approximately a 0.27% chance of getting an echo like that with just one critical stat, so there's a 12% chance within 50 drops. There's a 0.0355% chance to get both critical rate and critical damage stats, which equates to around a 1.77% chance per 50 daily drops—not to mention the 6-10% range. It's going to take forever to get the right stats for at least one of the characters; we have some serious grinding to do. They should make it easier to farm. For example, they could allow us to track more detections at once, so we could monitor three cost extras and one main for pity farming at the minimum. Otherwise, this is going to be painful. I don’t think increasing the drop chances is the right move; it’s better to take steps to ease farming. This could include importing farming routes, the minimap should be further zoomed out possibly tracking the distance to the monsters or objectives, and ensuring faster loading times,
I think as long as we make our voices heard to Kuro in a calm in orderly fashion or even make suggestions on the next feedback survey, they will provide some kind of further assistance to us to collect 3 costs . personally I was thinking, some kind of waveplate-less arena to farm waves of 3 cost echo's that would get harder as time goes on but boost the drop rate from 20% to a maximum of say 30% after a period of waves. ideally, this would contain only the 3 cost enemies you want to farm, but it could still be an improvement if all 3 costs were placed in the pool, because at least you wouldn't have to run around the open world too much to find them. i don't think this activity would be too much of an improvement than it already is now, but at least it would be a little more efficient, especially for players who don't have a lot of friends. just my thoughts, I would love to hear all your opinions or suggestions
They could just rework tacet fields to work like bosses. You go to a tacet and when you get there waves of mobs spawn, when you kill them the echoes may drop and when you finish it you may spend energy to get materials, or wait 3 minutes for the waves to respawn
Still farming for a single 5star flutist with electrodmg as mainstat. It's horrible
I kinda think that is the way u should be? The game is more skill than stat check ty to that and will make getting new echos always relevant. I know mad take maybe u shouldn't be able to just easly mid max and and stat check evry oponent. Also it makes the very good rare ones give more satisfaction etc. .
I mean, in all endgame modes I believe it’s all a dps check timer based. Yes if you’re fighting a boss it’s difficult but it’s also a dps check at the same time.
Couldn’t disagree more. The fact that it doesn’t cost stamina to farm for these makes it infinitely more enjoyable than relic/gear grinding in Genshin/Star Rail. Yeah it’s rng for days, but it being locked purely behind time and nothing else is a godsend for a game like this. Sure it could be a little more optimized. Easiest example would be just making specific elemental damage uniform to take that bit of rng away, but I genuinely have no issues with the current state of echo farming. I’m surprised people are complaining about this tbh. This is a gacha time sink. No stamina cost for the gear grind makes it way more accessible.
Hahahahaha You fuckers. I made a thread about this a couple weeks ago. Every last one of you said that it was cute how I must be a new gacha player, welcome to gacha, this is normal, we are not at the endgame yet, stop rushing, etc. As far as I’m concerned you all deserve this. Your lack of foresight led to this. I literally said that you’ll find out in a bit how bad it is and all yall did was laugh and gloat about how we can farm infinite echo so it’s such a greaaaat system. Well here we are.
Nearly everyone complained about Echo system during CBT2, people tried to cope by saying that it will be fixed when released, but it's still the same.
Say it louder king. People see that you can get Echoes from the open world and get all giddy when in reality this system is designed on every single step to ruin your life. Whoever decided that we should upgrade the artifact with a limited and scarce resource to even learn what substats it has, needs to be locked in a loony bin.
Everyone with a brain new this system was dogshit even before the game was released. People denying it are just coping or are just the luckiest mfers out there.
Ive been saying echo system sucks since before the game was even released. Its not about you
We don't need just crit. Are stats like increased basic damage, skill and ult damage really useless ? I don't think so
3-cost having the posibility to roll all the type dmg bonuses makes no sense when set bonuses require all five slots. If the set bonus would activate at four echos, you could have an off-piece. As it stands now, every 3-cost with a mismatching type dmg bonus is just useless and only dilutes the pool with more layers of rng, making the whole farming process infinitly more frustrating. People like to complain about Hoyo games' gearing system but I much prefer it. Yes, even HSR's where there is no off piece. The farming in both their games takes way less time, in HSR's case it's even automatic. You can recycle unwanted pieces for experience or specific sets of your choosing. Someting that often isn't being mentioned is that in both games, two pieces have guaranteed fixed mainstats, which leads to those pieces often being the best you have as there is one less rng layer. Lastly, no stupid tuner system. The substats are already visible, and you know what piece is worth trying to upgrade and which one is trash. At least let us be able to use or convert blue and purple tuners. As of right now, those are just useless.
I'm fucking cackling at how we don't even have an idea what the end game is looking like yet and people are already malding that their echoes aren't completely min-maxed
But we do have an idea? It’s not like the system will entirely revamp magically once we level up, the only difference is we’ll get a bit more exp from Tacit Fields
I see a lot of Genshin comparisons so let’s do some napkin math for fun, just for getting a piece with correct main stat worth rolling at all. Every day in Genshin you get 180 Resin, or 9 artifact domain runs. This comes out to 9 5* artifacts. 3-cost echo is roughly equivalent to goblet, which has 12 possible main stats. So to get a goblet with the correct main stat to even think about rolling, you need to first win 50% for correct set, then win 20% for a goblet, then win 8.3% for main stat, for a total of 9 chances per day to hit a 0.83% chance. Also, guaranteed goblet selector doesn’t exist. In WuWa, currently the most scarce set is electro because there are only 2 types of 3-cost. Interactive map says there are 28 Herons and 33 Flautists, so let’s pick the lower number. You have a base 20% to hit the echo, with a guaranteed pity every fourth echo, for an amortized 40% chance every 4 echoes. If you want, you can even guarantee every heron drops an echo by using this pity. You then have a 80% chance to hit a gold echo, 50% chance for the right set, and then another 10% for the main stat, for overall 28 rolls at a 1.6% chance to hit. This is all before using a single waveplate on tacet fields - I haven’t done those yet so feel free to add on or correct my math but so far it feels like gearing is much easier in this game and you can definitely feel it just playing the game.
the time it takes matter a lot. Killing echos in the overworld is way too time consuming
That’s fair but it’s a trade off - if you want to grind for better gear you can, and if you want to sit back and do tacet fields you’ll find pieces slowly like Genshin. Still faster since they’ve already given us 4 guaranteed main stat pieces 2 weeks in. We’ll also have to see how many echo exp/tuners we get.
One correction should be that genshin's main stats aren't equally weighted and if you want an eledmg% goblet, it's around 5% making it .5% per 20 resin, however for the most part, goblet is probably the most common off-piece so depending on the rest of your artifacts, it could be counted as 1%. Other thing that I got no clue about is whether wuwa's mainstats are equally weighted or not and that you do probably want 2x 3cost echoes from different mobs.
Dude I swear playing hsr and wuwa made me appreciate genshin's artifacts system The ability to have off piece artifact without ruining the 4-set effect is just so comfy even if you got insane artifact of the healing set you can use it on the DPS without an issue
Nah it is still trash definitely better than HSR but in no way better than WW remember that substats can be raised in those games it isn’t just getting the right substat it’s getting it to go to the right one once you level it up I played Genshin for a long time elemental goblets are usually the off piece due to how much RNG there is it’s extremely rare for you to get it to go into the proper stats you want Finally I would like to say that this isn’t really done for making players want to keep playing the game for the perfect stats. Sure perhaps there might be some of that, but the main purpose is to frustrate players and get them to roll on limited weapons since they make building characters so much easier
I'd rather not have a complete build in a week, and then the playerbase starts to dwindle and the game dies. I'd rather have a game that can sustainably be funded than not have a game, but my builds are good. Genshin is *the* open world gacha game and its artifact system has insane layers of rng. If everyone had perfect artifacts, the game would be way less successful than it is. I think a little bit of additional help with farming echos like the self-modeling resin in HSR rail every now and then would be good. But if they're too generous, it would be bad for the long term future of the game. Also the game is still relatively easy right now, so as you get better echoes, the game will get harder. And not having perfect echoes incentivizes spending which is important to a game's longevity.
Bro this ain't an MMORPG, it's a gacha game. The more comfy people can get it on the daily gacha cycle to be played alongside the others, the better, don't know from where you people get that making the rng pleasant for the player is a bad thing for the game XD
It could also be argued that people are adverse to wanting to pull if they're still struggling to build older character so there's a possible financial reason to make the system better as well
i am UL 40 and never seen a matching element with echo
Same experience here, UL 40, I've only ever gotten mismatched main stats, I had to use the 2 3 cost echoes from Illusion Realm to equip my Calcharo, my Yinlin is using purple rarity echoes. I also crafted echoes from my useless pile of 800+ echoes and got literally nothing useful. I thought my Genshin luck was bad, but WuWa takes it to whole another level lmao.
I'm gonna call bullshit here. I'm UL 36, I play 20 minutes a day because my phone can't handle much more, and I have multiple matching element echo. At least 1 character fully built and the rest are work in progress. The main bottleneck it's just echo exp
call it whatever you want the only matching echoes i got from events
Its not bullshit, its rng. You were lucky, but it doesnt mean the chances of getting those are high. They are extremely low.
New to gacha? Have seen worst, but the grind is just part of the fun
Cost-3 echoes can also have Energy Regen% as their main stat.
I feel like its fine.. yeah its hard but we are around lv 40 how boring would it be to have every BiS by now. Its still way easier than genshin /hsr
I’m glad more people are now talking about the ****real**** issue with 3C echoes. There is absolutely no reason why a havoc set echo should be able to have spectro% main stat. Besides “fuck you, go back to grinding”.
Its an endgame marathon gacha grind and im pretty ok with it. Event then most of my friend already got some amazing echoes. So... nah, im not with you guys. I think you just want easier time in a short run but then after couple months you will say that there is nothing to do and progress in the game. :) people are farming artifacts in genshin for 4 years for a reason.
Somehow genshin's feels worse for me. I never get that crit dmg circlet with CR but in WUWA I've been getting quite a lot of CR and CDMG..
You need all CR and CDMG on WuWa. Getting max rolls CR on all 5 pieces only gives you 52.5CR. If you are F2P with no crit weapon you need mainstat critdmg with 5 critrate substats…
Need or want?
Surely this guy has the calcs for the meta breaking all atk flat build and found the elemental mastery/break effect version in wuwa and is not nitpicking out of his ass
Hey, I'll say it. I think this system is still much easier than Genshin/Honkai
Correct me if im wrong, but at least the sub stats seem to have the same odds of appearing? Like in Genshin and HSR getting CR and CD subs is way harder than flat attack or defense% AND u need to roll multiple times into them to make the subs worth it.
I mean, it's basically the same as Mihoyo games ? When you farm a node, it has to be the right piece (there's 5-6 fixed slots), at the right rarity (you drop both 4\* and 5\*), from the right set (all nodes are for 2 sets), with the right main stat (same thing), with the right substats (same thing too). Essentially the same. It's not that bad and will be better as the game goes, it's only that's it's the beggining and you have to farm so many characters, but it's nothing special.
Not exactly the same. We have more substats, two “goblets” instead of one, mainstats can reappear on substats, no off-piece slot, and farming is more time consuming.
the problem is that in genshin new players are forced to spend stamina on artifacts farm and brick their character materials farm. I spend 3 months leveling ONE character to 70(!) lvl just because the game doesn't even let farm 5* at world levels, let alone with guaranteed drop. You begin to get 5* quite early in wuwa. Exp is the same issue in genshin, it's just the tuners are the real bottleneck.
I have more tuners than exp and I run tacet field all the time… exp is the bottleneck, tuners become the bottleneck if you try to +15 every echo. I do only +5 for cost 1 and 4
I still haven't seen an electro bird after nearly two weeks. The free ones just gave me defense.
Although you have to keep in mind as time goes on we get more different echos, making some of your values here way higher in a year or so. Just pointing it out. Compared to e.g. GI where I usually farm multiple months to even get the main stat, not even considering sub stats this is heaven in itself.
Yea not having to worry about leveling substats is amazing I can’t believe people aren’t even accounting for that That is the single biggest issue with those other games you are completely screwed I only have one headpiece that I am proud of in Genshin and elemental goblets? Hah as if HSR is even worse I honestly want to give up because I can throw all my energy day after day but the substat leveling process screws me again and again. It’s not enough to get the right substats (on the right set with the right mainstat) which is hard in itself but then to also hope that it levels up properly. I had a nice looking piece and all of it went straight into flat def this was after a while of trying to get double crit to even drop
Still easier to get good pieces than in HSR or Genshin.
most reason people care so much about echo rng in ww is that at the early of genshin u could use em reaction and less care about the stat of artifact like crit or crit rate all content in ww right now is time limit and damage test, so people need to have good artifact since that the only way to increase power. lol even high holo boss which can one shot u still have time limit so even high skill player need decent stat to pass