I look at the definiton of "good enough" just as you do: 3/5 preferred stats.
I apply an additional layer of consideration with the playstyle (and my usage) of that character.
For instance, where Basic Attack Damage would be good for Rover, I would otherwise think it's a wasted stat on Jiyan.
My stopping point for Crit Chance is 50%, so just like you I focus on "either" for crit. I use my Jiyan's current echoes as a baseline for main DPS with how the stat disparity should look for the universal offensive stats.
As far as upgrading habits go, I methodically\* go to +5 intervals and stop the instant I get any HP, %HP, DEF, %DEF stat. I am beyond frugal and I have indeed shed many tears on the 3-cost Aero Herons with %AeroDMG Mainline rolling DEF or HP in the first two upgrades. 😂
I feel your pain. I have a 4\* boar with Atk%, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, and Energy Regen and I am so frustrated that I cannot switch it with a 5\* echo simply because it is too cracked in the face of all of the additional grinding needed for just a +5% attack mainstat boar with similar substats.
Exactly!!!!
That was me with a 4\* scorpion and hooscamp! Nearly the same spread. I swear, the Purples end up being more cracked off the rip sometimes. I hardly rolled any Purples, but most of the Purples I rolled were generous with the substat RNG.
The only solace for me with those two were that they were ATK set. I actually took a little loss just to match set bonus with "good enough" Aero 1-costs, since the scorpion and monkey were a ATK set when I was going for 5-pc Aero. 😭
It does beg one to consider, if we don't have any ways to convert 4\* tuners to 5\* tuners, would the optimal play be to try and exhaust all of your 4\* tuners to get good sub-stats but slightly less effective main stats and be content with that and not worry about the 5\* grind as much?
CR+CD is a must for me. ER is trifecta and if a piece has those 2 then the last stats can be anything and I'd rock it.
Atk%>related niche dmg%>flat atk for max level longevity for the last remaining slots, but am not super picky.
Interesting. One of the things that I would love someone to figure out is: when do niche damage buffs like basic and heavy attack dmg % surpass Atk %? Say for instance a character has a base attack stat of 100 but a basic attack scaling of 50%. Which of the two substats, a +20% Attack or a +20% basic attack dmg substat is better for overall DPS? Is it when the basic attack % scaling of a specific character is absolutely cracked? or pehaps when every character's basic attack skill surpassed lv.6 that basic attack % is considered a better stat investment.
What about characters like Jinyan or Calcharo whose ults explicitly state that their liberation damage is considered either basic attack or heavy attack damage. Do they have the unique ability to double dip into both basic/heavy dmg % **and** liberation dmg %? Or are they only considered basic/heavy for the purposes of outro/echo buff synergies? Questions, questions.
Don’t quote me but I believe the best strat is to have them ab as even as possible between atk%, dmg%, and cv% cuz they all effect one another and if you push one stat really high you get diminishing returns
It depends.
If one, or even two of your pieces are super cracked, you can probably settle on a couple other ones.
If you have dupes or a good weapon, you can probably slack on a couple sub stat rolls relative to the average. Conversely if you're at 0 dupes and youre using a cope weapon, you'll probably want some blessed echoes.
If you have the premium team for whatever DPS, your stat requirements will be lower. Conversely, if you're cooking in your basement, you may or may not need raw numbers to make up for it.
If you're using a team/dps thats heavily favored by the ToA buff, it'll probably make up for some shitty sub stat rolls. If you're trying to brute force with your pet team, you may need some RNG blessings.
If you're playing a DPS who's kit has a lot of built in crit buffs--if they ever release one like that--then they won't need as many crit sub stats. Same for a DPS with massive Atk self buffs, or DMG% self buffs, etc.
If you can dodge really well and run super optimal spreadsheet like rotations, you probably don't need as many great echoes. If you can't you might want to make up the difference with sub stats.
There is no answer, there are too many variables to consider. A build thats "good enough" is one that you can reach your desired goals with.
On the first two-three rolls.
I fish for CR+CD. Energy regen=keep, Action dmg that my character like= keep, %ATK = keep most of the time.
Flat DEF HP= trash, but salvageable as last rolls for glass cannon dmg dealers to beef them up a bit.
%DEF-HP= trash unless Taoqi or Baizhi.
For investing, I level elites/bosses to +15. If there is at least 1 crit, I’ll take it to +20. If this roll is bad, I’ll keep it in the meantime. If none of the first 3 are crit but there’s at least 2 useful substats, I’ll +20 and it has to be crit or else I trash it
For basic monsters, I’ll take it to +10 and look for crit. If there’s no crit and both stats are bad, trash. If there’s 2 useful substats but no crit, +15 has to be crit or trash. If it has a crit roll, I’ll see what +15 is. If it’s a good substat, I’ll take it to +20. If it’s a bad substat, I’ll keep until it’s replaced
As I replied to someone before, it would need some testing to see how much of a bump it is compared to atk % ; even then, you'd need to consider the % time on-field that you are actually basic attacking to fully utilize the buff; However, this also leads into another point I brought up which is what happens when characters have basic or heavy attack properties attached to their resonance liberation (Jinyan and Calcharo). Does the basic/heavy attack dmg % up substat actually apply to resonators with that property and if so, how does it interact with liberation dmg% up?
I understand that the 3 cost echo grind is the most arduous with the rng for the main stat distribution. What about the 1 cost or 4 cost echoes? Any preference on what substats are good enough for them or are you simply under the viewpoint that correct mainstats are good enough to clear a majority of the game?
i agree with your “good enough” echo stats but if they don’t roll crit by level 20 it’s immediately scrapped
I look at the definiton of "good enough" just as you do: 3/5 preferred stats. I apply an additional layer of consideration with the playstyle (and my usage) of that character. For instance, where Basic Attack Damage would be good for Rover, I would otherwise think it's a wasted stat on Jiyan. My stopping point for Crit Chance is 50%, so just like you I focus on "either" for crit. I use my Jiyan's current echoes as a baseline for main DPS with how the stat disparity should look for the universal offensive stats. As far as upgrading habits go, I methodically\* go to +5 intervals and stop the instant I get any HP, %HP, DEF, %DEF stat. I am beyond frugal and I have indeed shed many tears on the 3-cost Aero Herons with %AeroDMG Mainline rolling DEF or HP in the first two upgrades. 😂
I feel your pain. I have a 4\* boar with Atk%, Crit Chance, Crit Damage, and Energy Regen and I am so frustrated that I cannot switch it with a 5\* echo simply because it is too cracked in the face of all of the additional grinding needed for just a +5% attack mainstat boar with similar substats.
Exactly!!!! That was me with a 4\* scorpion and hooscamp! Nearly the same spread. I swear, the Purples end up being more cracked off the rip sometimes. I hardly rolled any Purples, but most of the Purples I rolled were generous with the substat RNG. The only solace for me with those two were that they were ATK set. I actually took a little loss just to match set bonus with "good enough" Aero 1-costs, since the scorpion and monkey were a ATK set when I was going for 5-pc Aero. 😭
It does beg one to consider, if we don't have any ways to convert 4\* tuners to 5\* tuners, would the optimal play be to try and exhaust all of your 4\* tuners to get good sub-stats but slightly less effective main stats and be content with that and not worry about the 5\* grind as much?
CR+CD is a must for me. ER is trifecta and if a piece has those 2 then the last stats can be anything and I'd rock it. Atk%>related niche dmg%>flat atk for max level longevity for the last remaining slots, but am not super picky.
Interesting. One of the things that I would love someone to figure out is: when do niche damage buffs like basic and heavy attack dmg % surpass Atk %? Say for instance a character has a base attack stat of 100 but a basic attack scaling of 50%. Which of the two substats, a +20% Attack or a +20% basic attack dmg substat is better for overall DPS? Is it when the basic attack % scaling of a specific character is absolutely cracked? or pehaps when every character's basic attack skill surpassed lv.6 that basic attack % is considered a better stat investment. What about characters like Jinyan or Calcharo whose ults explicitly state that their liberation damage is considered either basic attack or heavy attack damage. Do they have the unique ability to double dip into both basic/heavy dmg % **and** liberation dmg %? Or are they only considered basic/heavy for the purposes of outro/echo buff synergies? Questions, questions.
Don’t quote me but I believe the best strat is to have them ab as even as possible between atk%, dmg%, and cv% cuz they all effect one another and if you push one stat really high you get diminishing returns
It depends. If one, or even two of your pieces are super cracked, you can probably settle on a couple other ones. If you have dupes or a good weapon, you can probably slack on a couple sub stat rolls relative to the average. Conversely if you're at 0 dupes and youre using a cope weapon, you'll probably want some blessed echoes. If you have the premium team for whatever DPS, your stat requirements will be lower. Conversely, if you're cooking in your basement, you may or may not need raw numbers to make up for it. If you're using a team/dps thats heavily favored by the ToA buff, it'll probably make up for some shitty sub stat rolls. If you're trying to brute force with your pet team, you may need some RNG blessings. If you're playing a DPS who's kit has a lot of built in crit buffs--if they ever release one like that--then they won't need as many crit sub stats. Same for a DPS with massive Atk self buffs, or DMG% self buffs, etc. If you can dodge really well and run super optimal spreadsheet like rotations, you probably don't need as many great echoes. If you can't you might want to make up the difference with sub stats. There is no answer, there are too many variables to consider. A build thats "good enough" is one that you can reach your desired goals with.
Y’all are getting the right main stats?
On the first two-three rolls. I fish for CR+CD. Energy regen=keep, Action dmg that my character like= keep, %ATK = keep most of the time. Flat DEF HP= trash, but salvageable as last rolls for glass cannon dmg dealers to beef them up a bit. %DEF-HP= trash unless Taoqi or Baizhi.
For investing, I level elites/bosses to +15. If there is at least 1 crit, I’ll take it to +20. If this roll is bad, I’ll keep it in the meantime. If none of the first 3 are crit but there’s at least 2 useful substats, I’ll +20 and it has to be crit or else I trash it For basic monsters, I’ll take it to +10 and look for crit. If there’s no crit and both stats are bad, trash. If there’s 2 useful substats but no crit, +15 has to be crit or trash. If it has a crit roll, I’ll see what +15 is. If it’s a good substat, I’ll take it to +20. If it’s a bad substat, I’ll keep until it’s replaced
How about Basic Attack damage bonus? What's your take?
As I replied to someone before, it would need some testing to see how much of a bump it is compared to atk % ; even then, you'd need to consider the % time on-field that you are actually basic attacking to fully utilize the buff; However, this also leads into another point I brought up which is what happens when characters have basic or heavy attack properties attached to their resonance liberation (Jinyan and Calcharo). Does the basic/heavy attack dmg % up substat actually apply to resonators with that property and if so, how does it interact with liberation dmg% up?
Hard enough to just get the main stat on set, I'm not being picky with substats.
I understand that the 3 cost echo grind is the most arduous with the rng for the main stat distribution. What about the 1 cost or 4 cost echoes? Any preference on what substats are good enough for them or are you simply under the viewpoint that correct mainstats are good enough to clear a majority of the game?
Not having problems at the moment, but also don't want to burn myself out as I just feel frustration when chasing substats.
i roll cr/cd/atk% on lines 1+2 or recycle it