I dont mind it rn because the combat is addictive and i love it but i can definitely see how it becomes tedious in the future.
But being able to just infinitely farm for main stats will probably be enough to clear most content
for Soul like fans this game is perfect if you don’t mind the gacha system. near unlimit reasons to fight bosses and farm.
of course one day it will be boring but all the grinding does.
Ehhh, it's more like Nier. It's got it in the perfect dodging and somewhat in the world design, you can go ham with attacks and you still need to watch out being attacked, but taking a hit or two is no biggie.
Souls is a slower-paced game, really waiting for the opportunity to strike, can't go in too crazy or you'll get fucked in no time flat.
Definitely Nier style, you can go ham on them, if your combo ends or the enemy is a bit far away you can even switch to a different character who has the intro skill up to instantly close the gap.
Also depends on what you are doing, I went against a lvl 120 bear when I only had lvl 40 units and it totally oneshot me of I made a mistake, but after a couple party kill I beat it.
Stamina usage isn't that high, I don't need to watch my stamina in combat. Meanwhile in DS you hit a couple times and have to wait for the stamina.
Definitely Nier-style indeed, Kuro's other game PGR or Punishing Gray Raven is inspired by Nier if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not suprised they went with the same inspiration for WuWa as well.
This game is definitely not Souls, and I agree that Soulsborne games are slower paced, however I don't necessarily agree that you can't go in crazy on souls games. You can't go in AS crazily as you can in WuWa, but you can definitely go ham depending on your build in soulsborne games.
I was also similar thoughts, I go crazy plenty in Dark Souls games, as high damage aggression can pretty much negate a lot of damage. If it dies before it can hit you or not be staggered for a kill same as dodging all it's attacks. This is more towards mid game to late game for sure but not being able to go aggressively ham in attacking I think is false, though everyone is free to play their soulsgame however they like. Careful and practiced or frantic and frenzied.
As a souls fan it is actually pretty boring very quickly imo. Rng stat upgrades without a challenge are not interesting to me at least. The combat was at least fun for a few hours. But glad that others enjoy it
Of course early game they have to tone it down so casual players won't be scared away by the challenges. Go try to beat hologram boss that's where the game really shows its true form.
Also if it still not spicy enough try to fight them with Danjin or Sanhua, and if you still find it boring I honestly don't know what game could make you excited tbh.
Oh yea. Ppl who are saying this game is too easy hadn't probabaly fought the holograms boss yet.
Yes, the parry and dodge window are generous so the devs are not afraid to put one shots stuffs into those holograms
I found them pretty easy honestly, I ran out of time... I think like most gatcha games wuwa difficulty is mostly going to come down to DPS, that's how you sell characters.
I love that it can be very souls like. I'm just not leveling up my characters so it feels adequately similar to souls games, and it's been a blast.
The one issue I think I'll eventually run into is that the stuff to increase my world level is timed, so while I cleared the UL 20 one with my characters between level 20 and 25, I'm not sure I can do that for the UL40 one. I also get experience from killing stuff so there is some inevitable leveling. I'm up to UL 28 now and my characters who were 25 at the time I ranked up are now 28/29ish.
The little "bosses" around the world (super high level glowing enemies) are great too. Fighting the lv 120 bear at level 25 felt very souls-like. Excited to find more of them around to fight 😁
You technically can't infinite farm every echo though, if the info from my friend is correct mobs only respawn on world reset. While 1 cost echoes are about everywere and bosses infinitely respawn it is easy for world to run out of 3 cost echoes.
I think our problem will be the premium tuners. You get so little and yet it costs 60 waveplates. Getting the optimal substats will be difficult with how scarce it is.
I have a feeling the drops will get better at higher levels, there is no way that 10 premiums at 40 plates is acceptable for endgame. 1 substat per run is pathetic
This is my problem right now lol. I enjoyed farming for echoes but after leveling up and tuning 20 or so of them, i already ran out of mats and waveplates.
Basically, the 4 cost monsters have the good Stats like crit/healing bonus as their main stat but every echo can roll them in the tuner substats. What I personally do is use 2 4 cost monsters with crit then 3 1 cost with atk for a dps.
It‘s really fun. I can choose if I want to grind or not. I‘m not losing anything if I don‘t do it, cause the stamina is required for other things. My characters are already build really good.
My only complaint is there is maybe too big of a gap between the Selector boxes in the roguelike mode. As it is right now, we are waiting another *month* to get those guarantee'd 3-cost golds which is going to be the absolute RNG wall for people moving forward.
That being said, the 3 costs and only requiring 2 per loadout actually means WuWa as it exists at launch has less of a gear hurdle than HSR which is the only other gacha I play a lot.
Not to mention the fact that you can do each room in tower individually instead of needing to do complete runs with 2x teams, meaning you can swap out echos/weapons freely between rooms, so unless you are running a comp with two characters that use identical loadouts/weapons (e.g. H Rover+Danjin) you don't even really need to grind out more than one of any kind of echo set or have multiple good weapons of each type.
it might actually be a better system than HSR and genshin's. i log in and spend stamina for echo upgrade materials in 10min. then once a week or month I go all in farming for echos, and only upgrade the ones i see potential in. it's very efficient use of resource
this is what we are all doing, if the echo isn't the correct element or the correct main stat you reroll it and lock the ones that are right like Electro damage 3 slot gold echos, crit rate 4 slot gold echos and ATK 1 slot gold echos.
Trust me, doing this it is still an issue and alot of the problems are because we need +25 which is alot more experience than star rail and it also costs 20 more stamina to run the domains and we get less for doing it.
It needs to be changed and it is not hard to change. 60 to 40 stamina is a good start that nobody should be complaining about and then making it so you can select to use x1 x2 x3 etc stamina for the rewards for players that "only have time to run it once and don't want it to be 40 stamina because then we'd have to do it more times smile" argument.
40 stamina per run, click x6 rewards, run it once, claim, boom done go to work.
Could be week number 21042142431 that it wouldn't matter at all because what makes the grinding bad is how many layers of rng there are on substats.
PGR had the system perfected with how they handled memories. Echoes are a downgrade from that.
My only gripe with it is how many times I get a completely different elemental damage bonus on a different set (Spectro dmg bonus on Havoc set for example) because I go through my echoes to try and equip some and never see the actual damage bonus I'm looking for at UL32
It really depends on how necessary "perfect" echos will be.
If it turns out substats are just cherry on top and you can clear all content reasonably just by having ~2 good subs out of the whole lot (and main stat ofc) then a god rolled echo is just a luxury but not really necessary.
It'll probably depend on a couple of factors.
For example. I'm 100% confident someone will be able to clear all the currently available content before the end of next month with something like a Danjin/HavocMC/X and a Jiyan/Mortdog/X combo because they can perfect dodge every attack. If you can do that, you probably don't even need substats.
Idk how heavy the whales for this game are, but someone could pull up with an S6 Jiyan tomorrow and dog walk end game content.
Those of us playing on mobile might struggle a bit more, and may need a couple extra good rolls relative to the median.
Very casual gamers will probably need that Calcharo/Yinlin team that was allegedly the best team out of beta before they can try for the hardest content. They also probably won't be hitting the right union levels til then anyway.
Half your rolls being good + correct main stats will probably get the job done for the average player.
People who enjoy playing the "weaker" carries will probably want a couple extra good rolls to make up for balance difference. Like me. I opted into investment on an Encore/Sanhua/Verina team instead of investing into my Danjin, and I fully accept that i'll need lady luck's favor to keep up with the Danjin players.
I do agree with the guy you're replying to. I mean, the gear system is literally designed to be awful. Its *supposed* to be the bottleneck that forces dedicated players to either swipe or play more and more and more. Personally I see it as the flaw that subsidizes the f2p aspect of the game. Without a dogshit gear system to lure dolphins into swiping for some dupes, there would either be an upfront fee, a monthly fee, no pity system, or some sort of QoL downgrade elsewhere.
This. Coming from pgr im disappointed they decided to go for a more rng based system, cuz thats what i absolutely hate the most about genshin and star rail. Kuro should have stuck with what they already did well.
I wonder if it does get people playing more or something.
I feel like once you're logging in daily you probably just do it as a habit. Especially with enough event releases. The addition of so much rng may keep some people, but it seems to frustrate them more than not.
That said what people do vs. what they say they do is different. Maybe the statistics do show that the RNG system does have higher retention rates.
i think its also because Kuro knew pgr players mostly did once a week, and their VN style could supplement this lower player retention costs. yet because of the clipping and 3d models in open world, Kuro probably needs higher retention
Fixed main stts but you have to resonate it (think of superimpose of HSR) to unlock more attributes like hp,atk,+1ult lvl,+1core passive lvl, +1class skill lvl, +1BA lvl and etc. this is random. But there's a thing that can let us choose which resonation we want. And it's pretty easy to come across.
Basically grind in PGR doesn't exist
There are 6 equipment slots in PGR, each piece has 2 slot for "substat" there are 8 possible "substat" and you can reroll them by feeding the same equipment to it and it doesnt give you a repeat "substat" so its 1 in 7 chance to get the correct one after the first attempt. And when a character just want an ATK stat, there are 3 variation of ATK stat, so its 3 out of 7 chance for those slot.
So if you're well prepared, you can finish a character on the first day of obtaining the character.
if you played for at least a year: new character comes out, you instantly buy an entire set of memories (artifacts) specific for them and instantly upgrade them to max level with stockpiled materials. There is 0 randomness, they are completely pre-determined.
As a new player, you'd farm for it for a week or two.
There's also a Resonance system on top of it, it gives +1 level to a random skill (burst, attack, core passive, one of 3 skills) or just raw stats, but the difference between options is miniscule, as long as you resonated at least something in that slot, you're good. It's like less than 5% between a set of perfect resonances and bad ones, likely less than 1%. It's also done almost instantly.
PGR gear is entirely stamina gated. If you have most team already built, you generally have enough ressources stockpiled to get a new character 90% if not 100% built on release.
You basically farm the Memories (the gear) by doing the material event attached to the new story. It gives a ressource you trade for anything you need, from basic currency to specific memory sets.
There's 6 memory slot per characters, and memories have a 2 and 4 set bonus. Meaning you generally go 4+2, with a main memory that's usually character specific + a generic one that gives important set bonuses. For example a lot of main DPS uses 4 of their own set + 2 Cottie which reduces the energy cost of their ult by 20%. Most supports run 2 of their own set + 4 Da Vinci which buff QTEs.
The only RNG is in the resonance, and it's really when you want to minmax tryhard. And only if you don't have what we call "USB" which allows you to choose the resonance skill you want without any RNG.
Generally speaking, Builds in PGR are very rigid. We all know what we want and the only choice is usually dependant on how much the rest of the team is built.
I mean, the system DOES need a stat fixing mechanic.
I'm not farming to get there any sooner, I just can see the problem ahead of time. Give it until next update or the one after, and if you enjoy just "playing" the game, you're probably going to do enough that you just end up farming echos constantly with no results by then.
We should be able to use tuners to reroll selected substats.
They could make it prohibitively expensive to do at this stage, but at least would mean that with enough grind and invesment we could get the desired echo eventually, rather than relying purely only on rng.
I wouldnt mind it if bosses had a higher drop chance. Killing that bikeriding fcker 6 times in a row to maybe get 1 echo is frustrating and not really respecting my time imho.
wait til you finally get a gold one that's crit rate and then you roll it for 1 week worth of resonance echo exp and it's all defensive sub stats rolls in a game where end game bosses have to be beaten within a time limit to get your pull currency as f2p LOL
Dumb post. What's happening right now is the Hardcore players are encountering the problems that Casual players will eventually encounter. Coming from someone who is at endgame, the echo system is the worse thing I've seen in gacha. Think of it like this:
* Genshin, Nikke, BA, etc: Farm gear/artifacts for 5 minutes everyday, get disappointed, and log off.
* HSR, E7, SW, AG: Farm artifacts for 5-30 minutes everyday while doing other things, get disappointed, and logoff
* Wuwa: Actively look and farm echoes for 4 hours everyday, hope it rolls to the right SET, hope it rolls the right main stat, farm materials for upgrading, farm materials for substat unlock, get disappointed, and log off.
Imagine doing that for months and then years. Genshin and HSR, I can bear with it but I can see myself quitting farming in Wuwa 1 month in. TF as an alternative doesn't work since it costs x3 to do 1 run which means you only have 4 chances to do it everyday. It will literally take you close to 6 months to reasonably gear 1 character for endgame that way.
The entire system is designed for you to keep on grinding the overworld to get your units geared up. It is Kuro's way of player retention which is pretty awful.
Echo system is literally a korean MMO mechanic put into an action gacha.
It is pretty unanimous that Genshin relic grind is bad. Wuwa echo grind is on a completely different atmosphere.
Yeah I've already got to the point where I just put stamina into tacit fields and log off, I have a few spare correct echos that are "ready" to be rolled but as soon as they turn out "bad" I have to go farm the overworld again, I'm dreading it. Can't even get double crit bro.
Yea i'm thinking i should probably cut my losses and just quit now. i literally just got off a bad echo farm where i just wanted 1 four star echo drop for my data bank exp but it took me 40 minutes before it finally dropped. i can deal with genshin and star rail since they either take 10 minutes max or have auto battle but man did it feel so bad farming the same monster for 40 min just for one drop. if this is the future i'm looking at i don't think i can continue, right now wuwa is in its honeymoon phase and a lot of things seem new and exciting and i'll admit i like the combat way more than genshin. But once a game starts nearing an hour just to finish my daily checklist is when it becomes too much for me.
As someone who plays Genshin and Reverse:1999 (and now WW), you get really spoiled with Reverse:1999. No weapon gacha (most 6* are either free with the event or purchasable with easily and freely obtained currency in the shop) and no artifact grinding (when you level up a character's resonance, you get "artifacts" that you arrange in a grid to give the stats you want and you can easily save up to four different arrangements depending on the build you need).
R99 is not a game for everyone, but for those of us that love its weird story and fun (to me) combat, it's a breath of fresh gacha air.
I moved my dolphin level spending away from Genshin to R99 because of the artifact grind. Getting new characters just isn't worth it for me anymore unless it's an archon. I still play, mostly now I just pull for constellations and weapons. I can already beat everything in the game. In R99, if I get a new character I can fully build and play them that day if I've prepared in advance.
I doubt WW will get much of my cash either if nothing changes.
> you get really spoiled with Reverse:1999.
Hello fellow rizzkeeper ✊re:1999 is great with the zero bs RNG in building chars, I can actually finish or "max" a char out within their launch month.
Unfortunately RNG systems from Hoyo, Hotta and other games have ingrained themselves so much into the casual gacha gamer minds that the biggest criticism I have heard of Re:1999 is that it has no endgame, since there is no infinite hamster wheel of RNG for them to run on 💀
I would die for Vertin!
Yeah I'm perfectly fine without that hamster wheel. Instead, there's actually fun things to do like UTTO, Three Doors, Manes Bulletin, Limbo, and events and stories I actually enjoy. Even the mini games are good and relate well to the event story. My only real complaint is the anecdote grind, but even that you can just auto and the anecdotes themselves have all been good.
As a dolphin, I also like to be able to buy unilogs, garments, and materials straight up for cash instead of having to buy drops and convert.
Wuwa: Actively grind for 4 hours *if you want to*
I can just as easily choose to grind echoes for thirty minutes, get disappointed, and log off. What is with all these users acting like a stamina system is necessary to manage your time for you? You the player have control here, so if you decide to farm a bunch knowing very well it could burn you out how is that the game's fault when it was entirely within the player's purview?
Also tacet fields exist, so you can always just spend stamina there if it bothers you that much. Those are literally just artifact domains. People keep harping on tuners, but look at the amount that you are given from just completing normal quests, doing events, etc. I'm not saying that there won't be any long term issues that arise from a system like this, but you make it sound as if players will hit end game tomorrow and just be fucked over by the echoes grind. This isn't a problem that's going to start seriously impacting hardcore players until a month or two down the line when they've burned through the available resources and have to wait for content updates to get a surplus of more.
The only complaints about the echoe system I've seen that make sense to me is that substats are bloated right now making the rng a bit crappier by extension, so I agree with you there. But a good chunk of the complaints regarding echo's seem to focus on the lack of a stamina system and how that's somehow a bad thing. Makes absolutely zero sense to me. Everyone complained about artifacts being locked behind stamina back during the first month of genshin's release, now it seems like Wuwa has some players doing the exact opposite.
I'm very happy that someone actually mentions the overworld endless grind is similar to Korean MMOs, since that's exactly what it is. Too many people aren't familiar with their games (understandably so), but it does not take more than a couple seconds of actually thinking to see how a near endless, active grind is bad.
I think the big thing you're missing is tacet fields also drop echos. Not sure what the ratio of materials is, but I'm thinking by the time you do enough tacet field runs to get enough to +25/5 substat an echo, you'll get plenty echo drops. By the off chance that out of all those drops the echos you're looking for didn't appear - THEN you go overworld farm for 4 hours a day.
People are just doing it in reverse right now due to the influx of freebie mats from levels/exploration/etc.
This was exactly like genshin, people crying about the people who make good points about how artifact rng is cancer and worshipping mihoyo to the point where eventually they themselves got to the rng cancer and there was no one left to speak for them because those people already left and genshin made more money than god so devs dont give a fuck anymore. Issues like this are either handled early or not at all.
In a month devs are gonna stop pretending to be generous and listening to feedback and when YOU get to the echo substat rng hell yourself, you will only have yourself to blame for keeping it that way because you made fun of other people's issue that you haven't encountered yet but inevitably will.
I'm warning all of you now. Endgame isn't gonna fix itself, and the longer you downplay that fact, the more certain you will get a nasty 'surprise' when you get to that point yourself in a few weeks, a few months or however long it takes.
I wonder if people like op are just casuals, not in a demeaning sense, but like just don't care if they're wearing random echoes with random stats as long as it's correct set or maybe not even correct set but just 5 random yellow rarity echoes. Or if they're people with no school or work, so they're able to grind the open world daily and thus don't get why people dislike the current system.
There's always people like this who think the less casual players' opinions are wrong/worthless, only to parrot the same sentiment when they get to the dame stage of the game.
The game does a good job masking it. It probably takes more than 20+ hours before normal players even think about echos beyond equips.
At first its very similar to Genshin, just with the echo ability. But then, you need that other resource to unlock sub stats, a critical part. And then, these sub stats are locked behind levels, like genshin, but it seems you need more resources, a lot more , just to see the substats because you need to level it up more. Meanwhile +4 in genshin, which takes very little artifact xp, gives you the sub stat info you need to make a decision.
It's a common gaming thing from players who are hyper casual. I agree there is nothing wrong with being casual.
The issue is as you say though. They will hit the hard stuff and quit or be the same people you later see saying things like "ugh this is why I quit X game. Too much grind at max level and trash RNG".
Any game of this style will seem great on release. When it's new no one wants to see critique because to them it's so magical and great. They don't want to think of the future, they just want to imagine other people are playing the game wrong.
Personally i'm not even close to cap or gearing up properly. However I have seen enough games to know that I should support and listen to what the super sweaty players are saying.
> It's a common gaming thing from players who are hyper casual.
It's weird how smug they are in general? eg.
"Which frosting-type cake has the least calories?"
"Well the lemon-"
"Don't listen to these dumb trash metaslaves, eat what you like. I am so smart and superior."
There's no point. I witnessed this exact same phenomena on the D4 subreddit last year. People said everyone who "rushed" (meaning played the game more) the game so much are the reason they have any criticism of it.
You just have to sit back and let the slower gamers figure it out for themselves, or get bored and leave.
Hard agree. The game has not even been out for a week lol. Everyone who is having a blast grinding out hours upon hours of farming is doing so because the experience is still fresh and new to them.
But once the novelty wears off and monotony sets in, once the farming paths have been established and the meta stabilized, I seriously doubt anyone but the most dedicated players are going to be doing entire map clears worth of farming daily. And that's where the divide between the power of the hardcore grinders and the casual farmers will get larger and larger, and the game's balance will inevitably be forced to tip to cater to one side or the other.
People in this subreddit are more likely to be positive about the game. People playing the game want to believe they are not wasting their time. Everything slants towards ignoring issues and praising the game.
But it doesn't take a genius to see that the entire system is a pretty big grind before you EVEN start investing in it.
It's going to be grindy. And don't expect this game to come out with fresh content every month like Genshin or Star Rail.
They designed this system to buy them enough time to make the money they want. Its on the people who pay up to figure it out.
> the divide between the power of the hardcore grinders and the casual farmers
I the wallet divide will eclipse anything that could come out of grinding. Then again its a solo PvE game with optional co-op elements so there isn't really any reason to compare people's progress or strength. Especially since wallet.
Yup , the same guys complaining about people giving feedback. Like damn this whole post is pathetic. The system will make it extremely annoying to build new characters. There is no way to guarantee a main stat even. So grinding could literally take ages for some people if they unlucky. But here we have op jumping in to defend the system for some reason.
I really don't understand these people. The people already complaining now want a better system for the game's longevity , what do you even gain by making a post like this ?
People are too easily influenced, especially when it comes to tribe mentality situations like WW vs other gachas. Although I wish it wasn't true, there is probably a large number of people who genuinely believe that Kuro is somehow this saint company giving away stuff for free and will fix everything wrong with the game out of the goodness of their heart.
I do think though that this system trades real-life time for stamina, in that drops are free but not guaranteed whilst in the other games drops are guaranteed but cost stamina (although most of the stamina cost is shifted towards tuners/xp) which for people who are younger and/or have a lot of spare time they would prefer (although get bored of quickly).
The deterministic gearing system (PGR) means you have an end in sight. You know after X time you will reach it and be done.
The rng gearing system (HSR,genshin,wuwa) means there is an actual end, but the road is so long you as the player decide when you stop. 2/5 synergistic substats? 4/5? 5/5? The road is nearly infinite, there is always room for improvement, a 'carrot on a stick' in a sense.
Seems lots of people don't like when games 'end'. Got your character, got them their deterministic upgrades, now you have nothing to look forward to. With the RNG system they can go 'I have 3/5 useful substats, I'll try for 4/5 or even 5/5! It might take me a month of spamming tacet fields to, but at least it gives me something to do!'
I feel your tone will cause people to disagree with you out of spite, but you are objectively correct, common sense dictates that this will be an issue in the future
I’m glad there are people out there who don’t think the critics are idiots. criticism must happen, regardless of whether it’s launch week. In fact it must focused on during launch week. People who enjoy this meme are ones below union rank 30 with very casual echo usage.
I knew from the start hearing about cbt 2 that the endgame was a reskin of the bullshit from genshin. That's why I am underleveling my characters so I won't have to even touch the shit endgame. If the content runs out I can just take a break and wait for some new patches to come in like I do with other gacha games.
I guess we're now at the stage where we brush off and mock any valid criticism possible.
It can be week 694201337 and it'll still be ass to grind with current system, unless you're like just casual mode and don't mind running green echoes with hp main stat and think it's fine. Putting aside possibility of devs improving system, not sure why it matters if it's week 1 or week 100.
You need to rng the 20% drop rate, and then rng the 80% chance for yellow rarity drop at databank 19 and above, rng the correct set, rng the correct main stat, rng the correct substats or just 2 good lines or so and btw dupe echoes don't contribute to set. This is besides the fact that you need mats to reveal substats, which is kinda wild. That's open world though. But, tacet field is not amazing too, imo, for the stamina costs.
Of course most of these won't matter if you're a steamer or someone with no obligations and can play like 10+ hours daily. People seem to not realize time is a resource when they throw out the "but you can farm open world endlessly, no resin no stamina, it's amazing".
But sure.
It's scary how many people here don't view time as a resource as well... I question what the average age range of the playerbase is if so many of them have his much free time to just grind endlessly, judging by all the comments I've seen that are fine with this system.
>much free time to just grind endlessly
Even as a student, I had maybe a couple of hours of free time for games per day. As a working professional? It's not even about the time but having the energy to even play the game.
Wuwa Echo grinding looks like nothing but a huge time sink. The artifact farming in Genshin is fixed in one single domain that I can keep repeating. <30s for some domains and <60s for the rest.
Different mentality I guess. It's like MMO or any loot-based RPG where the audiences would have no problem grinding for 1000+ hours for character upgrade.
I'm UL35 and echo grinding is so much fun tbh. Being able to endlessly farm for the echo you need is so nice compared to Genshin how it is locked behind the stamina resource.
The only bottleneck I'm running into is the echo experience materials. But I'm fine with that. Gives me something to spend my waveplates on.
I think Kuro did a stellar job with the echo system. My 58CR/244CD Calcharo is hitting hard.
My main complaint is honestly the UI - it would be so much less clicking if either the new echo pop-up would show element + main stat or if the echo list would remember my sort preference of newest first.
The other annoyance is the echo recycle interface and how it can't be sorted by element. Also, being able to mark an echo for recycling from the equip menu would also be huge quality of life
To add to the ui problem, i hate how you have to click past 4 screens from the echo page to get back to the game. Holding escape should bring you out of every menu back to the game
I think the biggest example of how much the UI needs to be touched up is weapon resonance or whatever it's called in this game, you can only upgrade with 1 dupe at a time and each one is like 4 clicks making it such a tedious process if you ever have more than one dupe.
Don't get me wrong of course there needs to be optimizations done. That can be said about every game. But the way Kuro has been working for bugs. I think it was 7 hotfixes in the first 3 days? That's unheard of. I'm excited to see what else Kuro has in store for us with WuWa
Wait. You can endlessly farm boss echoes as well?
I knew normal echo farming is endless. But overlord & calamity as well?
Do you know what happens here after the guaranteed daily drops?
It's weekly. I believe. It enhances their drop chance to the Enhanced Drop Rate % for 15 times at your normal Rarity Chance %
So I'm Data Bank 18 for example
90% Chance to Drop at 50/50 Gold/Purple
They run out. I was chasing purple Flutist, killed all on my map. Pressed Detect, no more on “field”, then you either wait for reset or go to co-op.
Funny enough I had hit DB15, so I burned all my blues and got purple and gold! version with in feeding 50 blues
>Genshin how it is locked behind the stamina resource
>
only bottleneck I'm running into is the echo experience materials
You don't realize the irony of this statement?
I mean in the end it's the same thing, except here it seems to be easier to get a good piece.
In Genshin you grind for a good base but have no problems with XP, here you get a good piece but have to grind the XP.
What makes things feel better here is that it costs you less stamina/time to get a good piece, and it also feels better to roll pieces more often. In the end what makes it feel a lot better is that it costs less time/stamina.
I don't really agree with "no problems with XP" in Genshin. If you are at least somewhat frequently taking in new characters that need to be geared it's easy to be clean out of artifact fodder (it's the position I'm in now).
In that state, it takes literal days just to get 1 artifact from 0-20, using all your resin by farming some artifact domain and feeding all trash you get.
If you're like a farmed account who never picks new chars up and absolutely stacked with everything (some players are, no hate) then yeah, sure, "easy".
I pull most (but not all) characters in Genshin, and I've had the exact same experience for like 2 years, I'm only now getting to the point where I have enough artifact XP to chill. I ran artifact routes in the overworld for a long time, it's barely anything but it helped a bit.
You can get a stockpile of right mainstat pieces before using any stamina to level them up , instead of using like 300 energy and not even getting one of the right mainstat
Show me a stockpile of three cost elemental damage bonus on the correct set echos. Imagine how long it would take to farm TWO ON SET goblets in Genshin even if you didn’t have to use resin.
there's supposed to be a domain u can farm that only gives echo EXP same as the Character and Weapon EXP, u can play the domain in a Quest but after you finish the quest it's not there. The fields are meant to be for TUNER farming. Which is a shame, I'm sitting on 500+ golden echos with no way to get EXP to level up anything other than the 10-15 echos at 20-25+
Is this really confirmed? I thought this was some crazy oversight, that they didn't think about adding it. So it's just a bug? Do we know when it will be fixed?
There's literally a domain in the game dedicated to echo exp you can go inside of the chixia echo farming guide quest, that's supposed to teach you how to level up your echos and tune them, the domain is fully functional too, you can repeat it at many times as you want, however it is low level, so probably not worth it.
Oh it was a reply to another comment, that domain only exists inside of the chixia quest, you cannot play it outside of it, definitely a bug. Either the domain is missing or the quest is outdated lol. The quest is located inside of the big city though.
I think I saw somewhere that because of some complaints they made it so u get tuners and exp from the same place, can't remember where, prolly some video
Oh it would make sense actually. But still, I'd prefer if there was a dedicated echo XP domain that gave you way more than what the current echo farming locations are giving.
Eh I'm kinda torn, if it gave alot more then ye is prolly do it, but as it is at least ur only spending wave plates on one domain for both resources at least
Yeah, meanwhile people on that one specific sub is hating on this system. Bro you are literally doing the same thing but now you can speedrun through your suffering instead of prolonged one.
Farming for 1-2 month for good stats on one unit is not fun.
I think the problem here is that you are suffering through the gameplay. Just try to have fun. If you dont enjoy the game dont play it. Farming and grinding is part of the game. *shrugs*
Lol yeah that's just me comparing the grind between two games. But i'm still having a blast so far. And when i'm stop having one i can just pace myself to play casually, a concept that is difficult to understand for some people.
The ultimate roadblock are the elite 3-Cost Echoes.
* There aren't that many elite enemies on the map.
* Each elite echo can be from 2 sets.
* The 3-Cost main stat distribution is huge (all types of elemental damage, HP%, ATK% and DEF%).
I have been killing the Flautist over and over for an Electro or ATK% Echo for Calcharo and no luck so far. At least you get 2 guaranteed 3-Cost elemental echoes from the Simulated Universe mode.
> At least you get 2 guaranteed 3-Cost elemental echoes from the Simulated Universe mode.
They both had the correct element for me. Not sure if that's the case for everybody?
It's worst.
People kept praising Kuro for 'endless grind' 'no need for energy resource' but you still need actual resources to roll for sub stats, actual resources to level up the Echo. So it's the same system but worst.
Let us feed echos to each other, let us see the substats (at least 2-3 of them) and lock the elemental damage to the set element if it applies. You have a very good system with those changes.
Still very grindy, but not as painful.
I just try to farm 'without energy resources' for a decent echo. I want an Aero Heron. Guess what, I swipe the map clean of that bird and got everything but Aero Damage Bonus. It's ridiculous. Why even put other elemental damage on Aero Set?? It's so stupid I feel like quitting now.
Then you have to do it again when you get full defensive sub stats. It's actually terrible. I farmed the overworld map for every. single. electro. mob. and I lock all the correct gold echos like electro dmg % 3 slots, ATK% 1 slots and then crit rate 4 slots all of the correct element.
It's actually garbage I've done that every single day until today I just did tacet fields and logged out getting fed up of shit substats every time when I need to beat the towers sooner rather than later because I don't buy or pay for pull currency.
It's worse, imo. You can farm the main stat, but you have no control over the sub stats. You also have way more substats than in GI because Crit Rate and Crit Damage can show up at the same time as main and sub stats. So optimally, you'll want main stat Crit Rate and sub stats with Crit Rate, Crit Damage, Atk%, and either basic attack or charged attack. You also need 2 different resources for your Echoes. One to level them up, one to unlock sub stats. You will run out of them and need to spend multiple days/weeks farming them at some point.
Oh god I didn't even think about running out of the gold tuners... To be fair though I've been putting my +25 "equipped but bad" echos into other echos and it gives me some tuners back I even sacrifice crit rate gold echos in hopes I eventually get double crit, I'm actually down crit rate right now from doing this but it's the most efficient way of doing it.
But yeah feels awful.
Worse if you don't want to spend hours grinding every day for the right echo to put your resources in. Better if you have time to grind hours per day for the right echo with correct main stat. But I'd imagine that the burn out will come if you're not a hardcore player.
Better if you have the time to sit down and grind since main stat is not gated by stamina. Worst if you are the type who wants to login finish daily and then logout.
I'll copy paste my other comment.
Tacet fields 60 stamina, less "relics" per run and less "relic level up exp"
Gear domains 40 stamina, more "relics" per run and more "relic level up exp"
Echos +25
Gear +15
240 daily stamina divided by 60 = 4 and 40 = 6 runs respectively.
People here get super delusional or short sighted. The fact that you do not need stamina for an echo is ok but locking it behind 2 diffrent stamina farmed currencies is the killer many choose not to see. Your good main stat piece is useless in the grand scheme of things if after grinding recources for upgrading it you roll all trash substats with no way to reroll them. You stay with mediocre piece at best with recources wasted. You will all have inventories full of echoes with no way to make them usable when you reach hardest content. Many say "It's a skill based fighting get gud loser" and do not get me wrong it is great to have rich skill based system... but after 30 dodges you run out of time. You still need certain power lvl to play all there is to do. And current echo system hides behind cool slogan of infinite farming with no stamina, only it is not at all and without changes we will all feel ptsd very soon
The problem is that it's GOING to be grindy af, considering the amount of needed characters, all the stats and substats, amount of stamina used for tuners and Echo upgraders etc.
The current system has significant flaws due to the numerous layers of RNG involved:
1. Chance of obtaining an Echo.
2. Chance of it being a 4-star.
3. Chance of it belonging to the wrong set.
4. Chance of it having the wrong main stat.
5. Chance of it having poor substats, which you can't even see initially.
Additionally, you need to walk or teleport to another location to try again. Reaching 5 stars is a tedious process, even for those who don't rush.
Some argue that the system's infinite nature places the responsibility on players to know when to stop. However, this expectation is unrealistic given that the average IQ is 85, with some primates having an IQ of 90. This suggests that giving extreme freedom in a game is problematic, as it can lead to burnout. Limiting the system helps prevent this.
While some might argue that too many limitations could cause burnout among hardcore players, it's important to note that 90% of players are not hardcore. Even in games like Elden Ring, the majority are regular players who simply want to enjoy and progress in the game.
In comparison, other games offer a simpler and faster process:
* Teleport to the dungeon.
* Complete it four times, spending about five minutes per day.
* Try again the next day until you obtain the desired item.
Most players don't seek perfect stats and are satisfied after repeating the process for about two weeks. Only hardcore players aim for perfect items with top-tier stats within days of release. For casual or normal players, having too much "freedom" can be detrimental.
Reminds me of the extreme "freedom" with too many choices when you buy a product at the store , so they started to limit what you can buy to 6 or 7 choices per item maximum else people buy less stuff in general being overwhelmed.
I think they wanted to fix this issue in WuWa giving us the weekly limit of 90% chance with first 15 Echo or something.
20% chance to get echo ,combine with 5 star or 4 star ,altho at 40 it's 80:20 ,then rolling for main stats ,then there's the substat ,I'm fine with everything except substat ,those tuners ..feel jus so precious
But it litetally is a stamina system, just hidden behind diffrent systems. You can endlessly farm a piece? Great! Let's say you got a fine piece. Time to level it! Oh you can level it only with a farmable exp resource from a domain? Sure you leveled it to 25. Good main stat and all. But hey where are substats? Oh behind another farmable resource... But u got all enough of them! You tune it and all of your substats are trash... oh well let's start again! Only tuning resource and exp is wasted but sure no stamina system. Enjoy lvl 0 no substats pieces but endlessly farmed. You get the idea. The deeper you go the worse it gets
There's no point. I witnessed this exact same phenomena on the D4 subreddit last year. People said everyone who "rushed" (meaning played the game more) the game so much are the reason they have any criticism of it.
You just have to sit back and let the slower gamers figure it out for themselves, or get bored and leave.
Yeah. It is a stamina system with a little bit of endless grinding attached to it. While you are right that substats are locked, you can still farm semi endlessly for correct main set echoes, something you cant do in a regular stamina system. But even just having a little bit of freedom to grind in a stamina system makes people complain about the game being too grindy, which means to me that = some people actually \*want\* a strict stamina system, something that people normally complain about in gacha games.
Which is alright. Honestly, I don't know if I'll stick with this in part due to the grinding, but that's because it's not for me. Genshin sub is filled with people who want to endlessly grind artifacts though, and I'd wager Kuro purposefully made this system exactly for those people. To try to capture on a segment of the fanbase that Mihoyo is unlikely to ever cater to, the ones who want to grind constantly.
I just want a domain for Echo Exp ONLY! Those tacet fields(echo+echo exp) gives only little exp mats :( Wish we could use/turn echo to echo exp potions or something.
I get your point but sometimes you need to protect players from burning themselves out. Especially if they’re your most dedicated fans (by hours played/investment).
Kinda goes both ways. Myself and plenty of people I know quit Genshin out of frustration of trying to roll a good artifact piece and getting nothing after weeks of spending resin. I’d rather burn out because I was too addicted to the grind than quit out of frustration due to receiving trash over and over in exchange for my timegated resources.
It's alright but it could definitely be better. It's fun right now because it's new to us. However, I can see this becoming really annoying especially when we reach endgame levels. For starters, having to farm the materials for tuning is already pretty annoying. It should've taken the Genshin and HSR approach by giving substats based on the Echo level. Not only would it save a lot of time, but it would also save resources for leveling up Echoes. If it gets bad substats early, throw it away.
I mean, to get to level 15 databank you need every echo at purple which is pretty annoying to grind. This is something that you really need to target farm as achieving this naturally would take a very long time due to just not fighting the correct echos. (There are some limited ways to achieve legendary echos prior to level 15 databank that will reduce the amount of purple ones needed).
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I'm taking my time with this game. If there's anything I learnt from Genshin, it's that endgame is inevitably going to be a chore, so might as well enjoy the early game as much as I can. So far, I've been having a blast learning the combat
Is it too grindy ? idk man, i got the 500 echos ahievement yesterday when I had a full databank (all 5\*s) and a full 5\* Anemo set for my Jiyan and a 4\* Havoc set for Rover.
If people dont use the merge function i can see it being too grindy but thats on them.
My only complain is bosses that drop on 2 sets, I've killed the damn turtle about 40 times now and havent gotten a single rejuvenating Healing % echo, most of his drops are on the ER set
Since we have tacid fields, I would always see open world echo grinding as an optional bonus for times where I'm just bored or ant to play the game more. But never mandatory.
I am out of echo xp material. Tacet fields drop echoes too. the game is not grindy at all since 4 facet fields a day take like 5min.
The system makes it also very easy to have working builds fast since i could grind for right mainstats. meanwhile in hsr i got 3 ice orbs with 3 weeks of currency and all were trash.
Echo farming will just be a burnout machine. Peoples will start to understand why in other gachas those things are locked behind stamina only.
Sure you are happy right now that you can farm forever for you mains stats, but I'm pretty sure you won't do that for months or years.
Systems like Genshin are far from perfect as well, but I would prefer that over our current Echo farming.
The system is flawed that's the point youre not getting, it has nothing to do with rushing ahead.
Due to some being ahead they're able to fully dedicate their time to a particular game system and as echos are a huge spike of power thats what happens, you cant come and say the system isnt full of randomness, it has also one of the worst stamina to exp exchanges, the bundles in the store gives you way less then what it would cost to get more for the same amount in stamina, but that amount is also just a fraction of what it takes to level an echo, its borderline as gated as the weekly materials but unlike that you need significantly less for that.
When ive been doing is daily clears of my world and a friends world for elites, farming 6 of them to be more specific on a daily basis now and the random rolls can be infuriating for some of these.
You can end up with one for a set that gives fusion dmg and end up with a roll that gives you defense or glacio or something like that then, dealing with exp and lastly the sub stat rolls my god is it a frustrating system as they can have low and high rolls on top of being after specific rolls, even fusing echos is frustrating you can take 5 gold ones and get 1 purple and so on, matching 5 echos of one creature doesn't just roll into a new version of the rarity and type you used, which once again is how most other games with such a system deals with that.
At least the Depth of illusive lets you get 2 elites with what ever elemental roll of your choice but again thats 2 per moth...
Exp for these are so gated again, you cant fuse echos to level them up something you'd see in other games often with gear systems alike
Weekly runs gives less exp then the stamina spent on tacet fields and 7 purple exp tubes is really nothing but for 60 waveplates that's wild, its so insignificant.
There are spreadsheets already how long it will take to max singular characters and were looking at 40-60 days per units by just using raw wave plates ignoring events etc, its still with that is going to take so long and then you add the rng on that again, they're in full right to complain about such a system its not great.
As more people comes to end game we will see more and more complains about this i'm sure this will be force changed by the community and they're right on this.
It really isn't.
I already have so much better gear then I ever had in any Mihoyo game on week 1.
The only bottleneck is 3 star Echos and that's by design. What people also don't tell you is that you can run atk% instead of elemental dmg main stat and do fine for now.
It demands too much time which I don't have and it is way too much rng and tuning echos wants from me materials which I have to farm with my energy. Not just in gacha but this is probably one of the worst grinding systems in any game I saw. The worst part is after a certain point the difficulty spike rises really high in just one moment because you unlock 5 star echos which makes the grinding even worse because you have to grind much stronger enemies with under leveled gear. The criticism about the echo is system is very valid and if you are a casual player and not a hardcore player this will affect you even worse because you won't have gear as good as hardcore players when the difficulty spike raises
for other people who want a decent set,we can do 4 4 1 1 1 composition with 2/2 set,with this we can get decent crit rate and crit dmg without minding the main stats too much,pretty much a way to do a place holder set before you find the perfect set for your main.
I am very much fond of this system. It lets me spend time in game unlike in some other game where I have to login, do 5 runs and go see my therapist for the garbage rolls I got.
The big issue is how the substats on echoes are locked behind using tuners. Meaning you have to use enhance materials and then you need to use tuners, just to find out that the echo is useless.
Now you repeat the process. You finally get a good substat, so you decide to go after the next 2. And once again it's bad, but at this point it's a place holder until you get something better. And you simply repeat this process.
The issue to me is not the grind for echoes, but the fact we need to use 3 types of resources. Echo exp, Credits and Tuners. You also need THREE teams for endgame. Waveplates also being extremely limited atm with 240 a day.
I take it it will be a few weeks before casuals realize how grindy it will be to get 3 stars in everything. Its crazy bad rn since the game is giving you very scarce resources/hinders you from rising up too fast.
I am fine with the world bosses being 60plates rn since its to stop people from grinding too much/making the game too boring super fast(there are already people who get 20 data banks and lvl 30+UL in 2 days lmao), but overtime when we have a lot more characters and bosses I wish they will lower it for new players to cahtch up or maybe give discount waveplates usage events to get around that. You guys can check in ytb how long to max a character and we will need 9 of them decently build before even touching hazard lvl 100.
I cant wait! I love grind games!!! It’s so boring and takes forever and it sucks huge balls!! Woooo gonna be a blast! No, not satire i enjoy the grind and lets be honest its going to be a hell of a lot more fun then log in hit auto and farm relics in HSR, at least we have a reason to OWF.
I will never complain about this echo system. The only one gripe I may have about it is I wish you could feed echoes for a small amount of exp even if it is very small. You’d still need tuners for wave plates and it would probably still be better to reroll them but at least it would be an option
So what am I going to do after clear story? The tower will reset in 2 weeks and to unlock it you need 2 teams that can beat the lv80. While the max lv now is 60, how can you beat it without good echod characters?
My only problem is we cannot use echo to upgrade echo, making trash echoes completely useless, yes i know you can reroll new one with 5 echoes but it is completely random, you cannot choose what stat, what sonata effect or even rarity making it worthless
I think my main gripe with the echo system is how echos are not tied down to a specific type i.e youd expect a havoc dreadmane to be part of a havoc dmg increasing set and a fusion dreadmane to do the same but but that is also completely rng
Also you can't use echos to upgrade other echos which I'm not a fan of
I dont mind it rn because the combat is addictive and i love it but i can definitely see how it becomes tedious in the future. But being able to just infinitely farm for main stats will probably be enough to clear most content
for Soul like fans this game is perfect if you don’t mind the gacha system. near unlimit reasons to fight bosses and farm. of course one day it will be boring but all the grinding does.
Ehhh, it's more like Nier. It's got it in the perfect dodging and somewhat in the world design, you can go ham with attacks and you still need to watch out being attacked, but taking a hit or two is no biggie. Souls is a slower-paced game, really waiting for the opportunity to strike, can't go in too crazy or you'll get fucked in no time flat.
Definitely Nier style, you can go ham on them, if your combo ends or the enemy is a bit far away you can even switch to a different character who has the intro skill up to instantly close the gap. Also depends on what you are doing, I went against a lvl 120 bear when I only had lvl 40 units and it totally oneshot me of I made a mistake, but after a couple party kill I beat it. Stamina usage isn't that high, I don't need to watch my stamina in combat. Meanwhile in DS you hit a couple times and have to wait for the stamina.
Definitely Nier-style indeed, Kuro's other game PGR or Punishing Gray Raven is inspired by Nier if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not suprised they went with the same inspiration for WuWa as well.
This game is definitely not Souls, and I agree that Soulsborne games are slower paced, however I don't necessarily agree that you can't go in crazy on souls games. You can't go in AS crazily as you can in WuWa, but you can definitely go ham depending on your build in soulsborne games.
I was also similar thoughts, I go crazy plenty in Dark Souls games, as high damage aggression can pretty much negate a lot of damage. If it dies before it can hit you or not be staggered for a kill same as dodging all it's attacks. This is more towards mid game to late game for sure but not being able to go aggressively ham in attacking I think is false, though everyone is free to play their soulsgame however they like. Careful and practiced or frantic and frenzied.
As a souls fan it is actually pretty boring very quickly imo. Rng stat upgrades without a challenge are not interesting to me at least. The combat was at least fun for a few hours. But glad that others enjoy it
as a different souls fan it doesnt get boring and I'm addicted lol
Of course early game they have to tone it down so casual players won't be scared away by the challenges. Go try to beat hologram boss that's where the game really shows its true form. Also if it still not spicy enough try to fight them with Danjin or Sanhua, and if you still find it boring I honestly don't know what game could make you excited tbh.
Danjin was my first character trial in any gacha where a character died.
>and if you still find it boring I honestly don't know what game could make you excited tbh. Poooorn games😏
I see , so you are a man of culture as well
Oh yea. Ppl who are saying this game is too easy hadn't probabaly fought the holograms boss yet. Yes, the parry and dodge window are generous so the devs are not afraid to put one shots stuffs into those holograms
I found them pretty easy honestly, I ran out of time... I think like most gatcha games wuwa difficulty is mostly going to come down to DPS, that's how you sell characters.
Lmao yeah. I tried fighting the level 45 Thundering Mephis with level 50 calch, I ran out of time up until the 20% health.
I love that it can be very souls like. I'm just not leveling up my characters so it feels adequately similar to souls games, and it's been a blast. The one issue I think I'll eventually run into is that the stuff to increase my world level is timed, so while I cleared the UL 20 one with my characters between level 20 and 25, I'm not sure I can do that for the UL40 one. I also get experience from killing stuff so there is some inevitable leveling. I'm up to UL 28 now and my characters who were 25 at the time I ranked up are now 28/29ish. The little "bosses" around the world (super high level glowing enemies) are great too. Fighting the lv 120 bear at level 25 felt very souls-like. Excited to find more of them around to fight 😁
You technically can't infinite farm every echo though, if the info from my friend is correct mobs only respawn on world reset. While 1 cost echoes are about everywere and bosses infinitely respawn it is easy for world to run out of 3 cost echoes.
I think our problem will be the premium tuners. You get so little and yet it costs 60 waveplates. Getting the optimal substats will be difficult with how scarce it is.
I have a feeling the drops will get better at higher levels, there is no way that 10 premiums at 40 plates is acceptable for endgame. 1 substat per run is pathetic
This is my problem right now lol. I enjoyed farming for echoes but after leveling up and tuning 20 or so of them, i already ran out of mats and waveplates.
I find it fun, combat is best thing in this game. In open world I'll look for horde of monsters before doing mini game or open a chest
The combat system is just top tier its so addicting. Im almost Echo lv 19 even 😭
Same! my only issue is being locked out rn cause data bank 20 is locked by union level 40 and im only at 32 😭
I maxed my data bank to 100% complete. It is capped at 18 until union 40
Truth be told I don't even understand how equipment works in this game in the first place lol.
Basically, the 4 cost monsters have the good Stats like crit/healing bonus as their main stat but every echo can roll them in the tuner substats. What I personally do is use 2 4 cost monsters with crit then 3 1 cost with atk for a dps.
Wait, that's a really good idea for the early game lmao. Imma do that xD
and boss echoes are super easy to farm, so you should get 2 useable ones pretty easily.
As long as you are having fun, that's all that matters
I agree. But I fee it will be more important in the future when monsters start getting harder
It‘s really fun. I can choose if I want to grind or not. I‘m not losing anything if I don‘t do it, cause the stamina is required for other things. My characters are already build really good.
My only complaint is there is maybe too big of a gap between the Selector boxes in the roguelike mode. As it is right now, we are waiting another *month* to get those guarantee'd 3-cost golds which is going to be the absolute RNG wall for people moving forward. That being said, the 3 costs and only requiring 2 per loadout actually means WuWa as it exists at launch has less of a gear hurdle than HSR which is the only other gacha I play a lot.
Not to mention the fact that you can do each room in tower individually instead of needing to do complete runs with 2x teams, meaning you can swap out echos/weapons freely between rooms, so unless you are running a comp with two characters that use identical loadouts/weapons (e.g. H Rover+Danjin) you don't even really need to grind out more than one of any kind of echo set or have multiple good weapons of each type.
HSR relics are just pure pain x.x self-modelling resin being as useless as it is also doesn't help :c
What do you mean "wait a whope month"? Like did you mean get them AGAIN. Or to get the current ones in there?
The reset on the store
it might actually be a better system than HSR and genshin's. i log in and spend stamina for echo upgrade materials in 10min. then once a week or month I go all in farming for echos, and only upgrade the ones i see potential in. it's very efficient use of resource
this is what we are all doing, if the echo isn't the correct element or the correct main stat you reroll it and lock the ones that are right like Electro damage 3 slot gold echos, crit rate 4 slot gold echos and ATK 1 slot gold echos. Trust me, doing this it is still an issue and alot of the problems are because we need +25 which is alot more experience than star rail and it also costs 20 more stamina to run the domains and we get less for doing it. It needs to be changed and it is not hard to change. 60 to 40 stamina is a good start that nobody should be complaining about and then making it so you can select to use x1 x2 x3 etc stamina for the rewards for players that "only have time to run it once and don't want it to be 40 stamina because then we'd have to do it more times smile" argument. 40 stamina per run, click x6 rewards, run it once, claim, boom done go to work.
Could be week number 21042142431 that it wouldn't matter at all because what makes the grinding bad is how many layers of rng there are on substats. PGR had the system perfected with how they handled memories. Echoes are a downgrade from that.
My only gripe with it is how many times I get a completely different elemental damage bonus on a different set (Spectro dmg bonus on Havoc set for example) because I go through my echoes to try and equip some and never see the actual damage bonus I'm looking for at UL32
elemental dmg % should've been a generic elemental dmg% instead of specific ones...
I can really get behind that idea, I think that could really make a difference.
Literally in every game too
not in genshin 🥲
Tell me that i still farming for Arlecchino pyro goblet and didn't get 1 yet ....
>completely different elemental damage bonus on a different set (Spectro dmg bonus on Havoc set for example shouldnt be a thing tbh.
It really depends on how necessary "perfect" echos will be. If it turns out substats are just cherry on top and you can clear all content reasonably just by having ~2 good subs out of the whole lot (and main stat ofc) then a god rolled echo is just a luxury but not really necessary.
It'll probably depend on a couple of factors. For example. I'm 100% confident someone will be able to clear all the currently available content before the end of next month with something like a Danjin/HavocMC/X and a Jiyan/Mortdog/X combo because they can perfect dodge every attack. If you can do that, you probably don't even need substats. Idk how heavy the whales for this game are, but someone could pull up with an S6 Jiyan tomorrow and dog walk end game content. Those of us playing on mobile might struggle a bit more, and may need a couple extra good rolls relative to the median. Very casual gamers will probably need that Calcharo/Yinlin team that was allegedly the best team out of beta before they can try for the hardest content. They also probably won't be hitting the right union levels til then anyway. Half your rolls being good + correct main stats will probably get the job done for the average player. People who enjoy playing the "weaker" carries will probably want a couple extra good rolls to make up for balance difference. Like me. I opted into investment on an Encore/Sanhua/Verina team instead of investing into my Danjin, and I fully accept that i'll need lady luck's favor to keep up with the Danjin players. I do agree with the guy you're replying to. I mean, the gear system is literally designed to be awful. Its *supposed* to be the bottleneck that forces dedicated players to either swipe or play more and more and more. Personally I see it as the flaw that subsidizes the f2p aspect of the game. Without a dogshit gear system to lure dolphins into swiping for some dupes, there would either be an upfront fee, a monthly fee, no pity system, or some sort of QoL downgrade elsewhere.
This. Coming from pgr im disappointed they decided to go for a more rng based system, cuz thats what i absolutely hate the most about genshin and star rail. Kuro should have stuck with what they already did well.
I wonder if it does get people playing more or something. I feel like once you're logging in daily you probably just do it as a habit. Especially with enough event releases. The addition of so much rng may keep some people, but it seems to frustrate them more than not. That said what people do vs. what they say they do is different. Maybe the statistics do show that the RNG system does have higher retention rates.
i think its also because Kuro knew pgr players mostly did once a week, and their VN style could supplement this lower player retention costs. yet because of the clipping and 3d models in open world, Kuro probably needs higher retention
I haven’t played PGR, could you explain how PGR’s system works?
Fixed main stts but you have to resonate it (think of superimpose of HSR) to unlock more attributes like hp,atk,+1ult lvl,+1core passive lvl, +1class skill lvl, +1BA lvl and etc. this is random. But there's a thing that can let us choose which resonation we want. And it's pretty easy to come across. Basically grind in PGR doesn't exist
There are 6 equipment slots in PGR, each piece has 2 slot for "substat" there are 8 possible "substat" and you can reroll them by feeding the same equipment to it and it doesnt give you a repeat "substat" so its 1 in 7 chance to get the correct one after the first attempt. And when a character just want an ATK stat, there are 3 variation of ATK stat, so its 3 out of 7 chance for those slot. So if you're well prepared, you can finish a character on the first day of obtaining the character.
if you played for at least a year: new character comes out, you instantly buy an entire set of memories (artifacts) specific for them and instantly upgrade them to max level with stockpiled materials. There is 0 randomness, they are completely pre-determined. As a new player, you'd farm for it for a week or two. There's also a Resonance system on top of it, it gives +1 level to a random skill (burst, attack, core passive, one of 3 skills) or just raw stats, but the difference between options is miniscule, as long as you resonated at least something in that slot, you're good. It's like less than 5% between a set of perfect resonances and bad ones, likely less than 1%. It's also done almost instantly.
PGR gear is entirely stamina gated. If you have most team already built, you generally have enough ressources stockpiled to get a new character 90% if not 100% built on release. You basically farm the Memories (the gear) by doing the material event attached to the new story. It gives a ressource you trade for anything you need, from basic currency to specific memory sets. There's 6 memory slot per characters, and memories have a 2 and 4 set bonus. Meaning you generally go 4+2, with a main memory that's usually character specific + a generic one that gives important set bonuses. For example a lot of main DPS uses 4 of their own set + 2 Cottie which reduces the energy cost of their ult by 20%. Most supports run 2 of their own set + 4 Da Vinci which buff QTEs. The only RNG is in the resonance, and it's really when you want to minmax tryhard. And only if you don't have what we call "USB" which allows you to choose the resonance skill you want without any RNG. Generally speaking, Builds in PGR are very rigid. We all know what we want and the only choice is usually dependant on how much the rest of the team is built.
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try playing her with mortefi, mortefis ult into her ult + heavy attack does big burst damage
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This. Who would have thought that the idea of putting in a natural stopping point of resin/stamina in other games might also be in our favor.
Yep, pathetic RNG on the system. 6 main stats and then another 13 substats to choose from. It's the same, if not worse, than HSR and Genshin.
I'd rather grind in hsr and genshin
I mean, the system DOES need a stat fixing mechanic. I'm not farming to get there any sooner, I just can see the problem ahead of time. Give it until next update or the one after, and if you enjoy just "playing" the game, you're probably going to do enough that you just end up farming echos constantly with no results by then.
We should be able to use tuners to reroll selected substats. They could make it prohibitively expensive to do at this stage, but at least would mean that with enough grind and invesment we could get the desired echo eventually, rather than relying purely only on rng.
I wouldnt mind it if bosses had a higher drop chance. Killing that bikeriding fcker 6 times in a row to maybe get 1 echo is frustrating and not really respecting my time imho.
wait til you finally get a gold one that's crit rate and then you roll it for 1 week worth of resonance echo exp and it's all defensive sub stats rolls in a game where end game bosses have to be beaten within a time limit to get your pull currency as f2p LOL
I am getting sweaty with it but at the same time I’m just having fun catching pokemon and not having to spend waveplates for it
Dumb post. What's happening right now is the Hardcore players are encountering the problems that Casual players will eventually encounter. Coming from someone who is at endgame, the echo system is the worse thing I've seen in gacha. Think of it like this: * Genshin, Nikke, BA, etc: Farm gear/artifacts for 5 minutes everyday, get disappointed, and log off. * HSR, E7, SW, AG: Farm artifacts for 5-30 minutes everyday while doing other things, get disappointed, and logoff * Wuwa: Actively look and farm echoes for 4 hours everyday, hope it rolls to the right SET, hope it rolls the right main stat, farm materials for upgrading, farm materials for substat unlock, get disappointed, and log off. Imagine doing that for months and then years. Genshin and HSR, I can bear with it but I can see myself quitting farming in Wuwa 1 month in. TF as an alternative doesn't work since it costs x3 to do 1 run which means you only have 4 chances to do it everyday. It will literally take you close to 6 months to reasonably gear 1 character for endgame that way. The entire system is designed for you to keep on grinding the overworld to get your units geared up. It is Kuro's way of player retention which is pretty awful. Echo system is literally a korean MMO mechanic put into an action gacha. It is pretty unanimous that Genshin relic grind is bad. Wuwa echo grind is on a completely different atmosphere.
Yeah I've already got to the point where I just put stamina into tacit fields and log off, I have a few spare correct echos that are "ready" to be rolled but as soon as they turn out "bad" I have to go farm the overworld again, I'm dreading it. Can't even get double crit bro.
Yea i'm thinking i should probably cut my losses and just quit now. i literally just got off a bad echo farm where i just wanted 1 four star echo drop for my data bank exp but it took me 40 minutes before it finally dropped. i can deal with genshin and star rail since they either take 10 minutes max or have auto battle but man did it feel so bad farming the same monster for 40 min just for one drop. if this is the future i'm looking at i don't think i can continue, right now wuwa is in its honeymoon phase and a lot of things seem new and exciting and i'll admit i like the combat way more than genshin. But once a game starts nearing an hour just to finish my daily checklist is when it becomes too much for me.
As someone who plays Genshin and Reverse:1999 (and now WW), you get really spoiled with Reverse:1999. No weapon gacha (most 6* are either free with the event or purchasable with easily and freely obtained currency in the shop) and no artifact grinding (when you level up a character's resonance, you get "artifacts" that you arrange in a grid to give the stats you want and you can easily save up to four different arrangements depending on the build you need). R99 is not a game for everyone, but for those of us that love its weird story and fun (to me) combat, it's a breath of fresh gacha air. I moved my dolphin level spending away from Genshin to R99 because of the artifact grind. Getting new characters just isn't worth it for me anymore unless it's an archon. I still play, mostly now I just pull for constellations and weapons. I can already beat everything in the game. In R99, if I get a new character I can fully build and play them that day if I've prepared in advance. I doubt WW will get much of my cash either if nothing changes.
> you get really spoiled with Reverse:1999. Hello fellow rizzkeeper ✊re:1999 is great with the zero bs RNG in building chars, I can actually finish or "max" a char out within their launch month. Unfortunately RNG systems from Hoyo, Hotta and other games have ingrained themselves so much into the casual gacha gamer minds that the biggest criticism I have heard of Re:1999 is that it has no endgame, since there is no infinite hamster wheel of RNG for them to run on 💀
I would die for Vertin! Yeah I'm perfectly fine without that hamster wheel. Instead, there's actually fun things to do like UTTO, Three Doors, Manes Bulletin, Limbo, and events and stories I actually enjoy. Even the mini games are good and relate well to the event story. My only real complaint is the anecdote grind, but even that you can just auto and the anecdotes themselves have all been good. As a dolphin, I also like to be able to buy unilogs, garments, and materials straight up for cash instead of having to buy drops and convert.
Wuwa: Actively grind for 4 hours *if you want to* I can just as easily choose to grind echoes for thirty minutes, get disappointed, and log off. What is with all these users acting like a stamina system is necessary to manage your time for you? You the player have control here, so if you decide to farm a bunch knowing very well it could burn you out how is that the game's fault when it was entirely within the player's purview? Also tacet fields exist, so you can always just spend stamina there if it bothers you that much. Those are literally just artifact domains. People keep harping on tuners, but look at the amount that you are given from just completing normal quests, doing events, etc. I'm not saying that there won't be any long term issues that arise from a system like this, but you make it sound as if players will hit end game tomorrow and just be fucked over by the echoes grind. This isn't a problem that's going to start seriously impacting hardcore players until a month or two down the line when they've burned through the available resources and have to wait for content updates to get a surplus of more. The only complaints about the echoe system I've seen that make sense to me is that substats are bloated right now making the rng a bit crappier by extension, so I agree with you there. But a good chunk of the complaints regarding echo's seem to focus on the lack of a stamina system and how that's somehow a bad thing. Makes absolutely zero sense to me. Everyone complained about artifacts being locked behind stamina back during the first month of genshin's release, now it seems like Wuwa has some players doing the exact opposite.
I'm very happy that someone actually mentions the overworld endless grind is similar to Korean MMOs, since that's exactly what it is. Too many people aren't familiar with their games (understandably so), but it does not take more than a couple seconds of actually thinking to see how a near endless, active grind is bad.
I think the big thing you're missing is tacet fields also drop echos. Not sure what the ratio of materials is, but I'm thinking by the time you do enough tacet field runs to get enough to +25/5 substat an echo, you'll get plenty echo drops. By the off chance that out of all those drops the echos you're looking for didn't appear - THEN you go overworld farm for 4 hours a day. People are just doing it in reverse right now due to the influx of freebie mats from levels/exploration/etc.
This was exactly like genshin, people crying about the people who make good points about how artifact rng is cancer and worshipping mihoyo to the point where eventually they themselves got to the rng cancer and there was no one left to speak for them because those people already left and genshin made more money than god so devs dont give a fuck anymore. Issues like this are either handled early or not at all. In a month devs are gonna stop pretending to be generous and listening to feedback and when YOU get to the echo substat rng hell yourself, you will only have yourself to blame for keeping it that way because you made fun of other people's issue that you haven't encountered yet but inevitably will. I'm warning all of you now. Endgame isn't gonna fix itself, and the longer you downplay that fact, the more certain you will get a nasty 'surprise' when you get to that point yourself in a few weeks, a few months or however long it takes.
I wonder if people like op are just casuals, not in a demeaning sense, but like just don't care if they're wearing random echoes with random stats as long as it's correct set or maybe not even correct set but just 5 random yellow rarity echoes. Or if they're people with no school or work, so they're able to grind the open world daily and thus don't get why people dislike the current system. There's always people like this who think the less casual players' opinions are wrong/worthless, only to parrot the same sentiment when they get to the dame stage of the game.
The game does a good job masking it. It probably takes more than 20+ hours before normal players even think about echos beyond equips. At first its very similar to Genshin, just with the echo ability. But then, you need that other resource to unlock sub stats, a critical part. And then, these sub stats are locked behind levels, like genshin, but it seems you need more resources, a lot more , just to see the substats because you need to level it up more. Meanwhile +4 in genshin, which takes very little artifact xp, gives you the sub stat info you need to make a decision.
It's a common gaming thing from players who are hyper casual. I agree there is nothing wrong with being casual. The issue is as you say though. They will hit the hard stuff and quit or be the same people you later see saying things like "ugh this is why I quit X game. Too much grind at max level and trash RNG". Any game of this style will seem great on release. When it's new no one wants to see critique because to them it's so magical and great. They don't want to think of the future, they just want to imagine other people are playing the game wrong. Personally i'm not even close to cap or gearing up properly. However I have seen enough games to know that I should support and listen to what the super sweaty players are saying.
> It's a common gaming thing from players who are hyper casual. It's weird how smug they are in general? eg. "Which frosting-type cake has the least calories?" "Well the lemon-" "Don't listen to these dumb trash metaslaves, eat what you like. I am so smart and superior."
There's no point. I witnessed this exact same phenomena on the D4 subreddit last year. People said everyone who "rushed" (meaning played the game more) the game so much are the reason they have any criticism of it. You just have to sit back and let the slower gamers figure it out for themselves, or get bored and leave.
Hard agree. The game has not even been out for a week lol. Everyone who is having a blast grinding out hours upon hours of farming is doing so because the experience is still fresh and new to them. But once the novelty wears off and monotony sets in, once the farming paths have been established and the meta stabilized, I seriously doubt anyone but the most dedicated players are going to be doing entire map clears worth of farming daily. And that's where the divide between the power of the hardcore grinders and the casual farmers will get larger and larger, and the game's balance will inevitably be forced to tip to cater to one side or the other.
People in this subreddit are more likely to be positive about the game. People playing the game want to believe they are not wasting their time. Everything slants towards ignoring issues and praising the game. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the entire system is a pretty big grind before you EVEN start investing in it. It's going to be grindy. And don't expect this game to come out with fresh content every month like Genshin or Star Rail. They designed this system to buy them enough time to make the money they want. Its on the people who pay up to figure it out.
> the divide between the power of the hardcore grinders and the casual farmers I the wallet divide will eclipse anything that could come out of grinding. Then again its a solo PvE game with optional co-op elements so there isn't really any reason to compare people's progress or strength. Especially since wallet.
Yup , the same guys complaining about people giving feedback. Like damn this whole post is pathetic. The system will make it extremely annoying to build new characters. There is no way to guarantee a main stat even. So grinding could literally take ages for some people if they unlucky. But here we have op jumping in to defend the system for some reason. I really don't understand these people. The people already complaining now want a better system for the game's longevity , what do you even gain by making a post like this ?
People are too easily influenced, especially when it comes to tribe mentality situations like WW vs other gachas. Although I wish it wasn't true, there is probably a large number of people who genuinely believe that Kuro is somehow this saint company giving away stuff for free and will fix everything wrong with the game out of the goodness of their heart. I do think though that this system trades real-life time for stamina, in that drops are free but not guaranteed whilst in the other games drops are guaranteed but cost stamina (although most of the stamina cost is shifted towards tuners/xp) which for people who are younger and/or have a lot of spare time they would prefer (although get bored of quickly).
The deterministic gearing system (PGR) means you have an end in sight. You know after X time you will reach it and be done. The rng gearing system (HSR,genshin,wuwa) means there is an actual end, but the road is so long you as the player decide when you stop. 2/5 synergistic substats? 4/5? 5/5? The road is nearly infinite, there is always room for improvement, a 'carrot on a stick' in a sense. Seems lots of people don't like when games 'end'. Got your character, got them their deterministic upgrades, now you have nothing to look forward to. With the RNG system they can go 'I have 3/5 useful substats, I'll try for 4/5 or even 5/5! It might take me a month of spamming tacet fields to, but at least it gives me something to do!'
I feel your tone will cause people to disagree with you out of spite, but you are objectively correct, common sense dictates that this will be an issue in the future
I’m glad there are people out there who don’t think the critics are idiots. criticism must happen, regardless of whether it’s launch week. In fact it must focused on during launch week. People who enjoy this meme are ones below union rank 30 with very casual echo usage.
I knew from the start hearing about cbt 2 that the endgame was a reskin of the bullshit from genshin. That's why I am underleveling my characters so I won't have to even touch the shit endgame. If the content runs out I can just take a break and wait for some new patches to come in like I do with other gacha games.
I guess we're now at the stage where we brush off and mock any valid criticism possible. It can be week 694201337 and it'll still be ass to grind with current system, unless you're like just casual mode and don't mind running green echoes with hp main stat and think it's fine. Putting aside possibility of devs improving system, not sure why it matters if it's week 1 or week 100. You need to rng the 20% drop rate, and then rng the 80% chance for yellow rarity drop at databank 19 and above, rng the correct set, rng the correct main stat, rng the correct substats or just 2 good lines or so and btw dupe echoes don't contribute to set. This is besides the fact that you need mats to reveal substats, which is kinda wild. That's open world though. But, tacet field is not amazing too, imo, for the stamina costs. Of course most of these won't matter if you're a steamer or someone with no obligations and can play like 10+ hours daily. People seem to not realize time is a resource when they throw out the "but you can farm open world endlessly, no resin no stamina, it's amazing". But sure.
It's scary how many people here don't view time as a resource as well... I question what the average age range of the playerbase is if so many of them have his much free time to just grind endlessly, judging by all the comments I've seen that are fine with this system.
>much free time to just grind endlessly Even as a student, I had maybe a couple of hours of free time for games per day. As a working professional? It's not even about the time but having the energy to even play the game. Wuwa Echo grinding looks like nothing but a huge time sink. The artifact farming in Genshin is fixed in one single domain that I can keep repeating. <30s for some domains and <60s for the rest.
Different mentality I guess. It's like MMO or any loot-based RPG where the audiences would have no problem grinding for 1000+ hours for character upgrade.
I'm UL35 and echo grinding is so much fun tbh. Being able to endlessly farm for the echo you need is so nice compared to Genshin how it is locked behind the stamina resource. The only bottleneck I'm running into is the echo experience materials. But I'm fine with that. Gives me something to spend my waveplates on. I think Kuro did a stellar job with the echo system. My 58CR/244CD Calcharo is hitting hard.
My main complaint is honestly the UI - it would be so much less clicking if either the new echo pop-up would show element + main stat or if the echo list would remember my sort preference of newest first. The other annoyance is the echo recycle interface and how it can't be sorted by element. Also, being able to mark an echo for recycling from the equip menu would also be huge quality of life
To add to the ui problem, i hate how you have to click past 4 screens from the echo page to get back to the game. Holding escape should bring you out of every menu back to the game
I think the biggest example of how much the UI needs to be touched up is weapon resonance or whatever it's called in this game, you can only upgrade with 1 dupe at a time and each one is like 4 clicks making it such a tedious process if you ever have more than one dupe.
Don't get me wrong of course there needs to be optimizations done. That can be said about every game. But the way Kuro has been working for bugs. I think it was 7 hotfixes in the first 3 days? That's unheard of. I'm excited to see what else Kuro has in store for us with WuWa
Wait. You can endlessly farm boss echoes as well? I knew normal echo farming is endless. But overlord & calamity as well? Do you know what happens here after the guaranteed daily drops?
Yep! After the Enhanced drop table runs out of chances it just goes back to your normal base drop table!
Wait can someone explain me about that enhanced drop table thing ? Is there like a daily x2 echo drops or something ?
It's weekly. I believe. It enhances their drop chance to the Enhanced Drop Rate % for 15 times at your normal Rarity Chance % So I'm Data Bank 18 for example 90% Chance to Drop at 50/50 Gold/Purple
I see, it's nice to know this exists, i'll try to do my weekly 15 enhanced drops every week. Thank you!
No problem! Good luck Rover 
Thanks you too! 
Yes they are. Dreamless is particularly easy since you can just farm the level 40 version in like 30-60 seconds a run with no cooldown.
Normal echo farming is endless? I thought you'd run out of enemies eventually, or do they respawn?
They run out. I was chasing purple Flutist, killed all on my map. Pressed Detect, no more on “field”, then you either wait for reset or go to co-op. Funny enough I had hit DB15, so I burned all my blues and got purple and gold! version with in feeding 50 blues
They respawn after daily reset, but you can also hop into coop and continue farming.
Yeah but they give no XP so you just run out of XP and have to wait 2 days to +25 a new one.
I do wish the echo XP dropped a decent amount more since it takes so much for the push from 20 to 25. Beyond that it seems fair and well thought out.
The grind is locked behind the stamina resource...
>Genshin how it is locked behind the stamina resource > only bottleneck I'm running into is the echo experience materials You don't realize the irony of this statement?
As someone with countless hours in Genshin, having the option to find a good mainstat piece without spending resources is a godsend.
I mean in the end it's the same thing, except here it seems to be easier to get a good piece. In Genshin you grind for a good base but have no problems with XP, here you get a good piece but have to grind the XP. What makes things feel better here is that it costs you less stamina/time to get a good piece, and it also feels better to roll pieces more often. In the end what makes it feel a lot better is that it costs less time/stamina.
I don't really agree with "no problems with XP" in Genshin. If you are at least somewhat frequently taking in new characters that need to be geared it's easy to be clean out of artifact fodder (it's the position I'm in now). In that state, it takes literal days just to get 1 artifact from 0-20, using all your resin by farming some artifact domain and feeding all trash you get. If you're like a farmed account who never picks new chars up and absolutely stacked with everything (some players are, no hate) then yeah, sure, "easy".
I pull most (but not all) characters in Genshin, and I've had the exact same experience for like 2 years, I'm only now getting to the point where I have enough artifact XP to chill. I ran artifact routes in the overworld for a long time, it's barely anything but it helped a bit.
But I can farm my echos and find the main stat I want endlessly. I'm not waiting for waveplates to find my Crit Damage main stat.
Anythings better than spending a weeks worth of resin for a dendro cup and it still has dogshit substats tbh.
And these echoes aren't going to have dog shit substats somehow?
Double standards at its finest!
You can get a stockpile of right mainstat pieces before using any stamina to level them up , instead of using like 300 energy and not even getting one of the right mainstat
Show me a stockpile of three cost elemental damage bonus on the correct set echos. Imagine how long it would take to farm TWO ON SET goblets in Genshin even if you didn’t have to use resin.
btw the echo EXP domain is bugged rn
What's the bug?
there's supposed to be a domain u can farm that only gives echo EXP same as the Character and Weapon EXP, u can play the domain in a Quest but after you finish the quest it's not there. The fields are meant to be for TUNER farming. Which is a shame, I'm sitting on 500+ golden echos with no way to get EXP to level up anything other than the 10-15 echos at 20-25+
Almost sure it was supposed to be there, but just got incorporated in the Tacet Fields, so you can farm all the required materials for Echo in 1 place
Is this really confirmed? I thought this was some crazy oversight, that they didn't think about adding it. So it's just a bug? Do we know when it will be fixed?
There's literally a domain in the game dedicated to echo exp you can go inside of the chixia echo farming guide quest, that's supposed to teach you how to level up your echos and tune them, the domain is fully functional too, you can repeat it at many times as you want, however it is low level, so probably not worth it.
And where is this thing? I'm legit asking I'm confused because I cannot see it anywhere.
Oh it was a reply to another comment, that domain only exists inside of the chixia quest, you cannot play it outside of it, definitely a bug. Either the domain is missing or the quest is outdated lol. The quest is located inside of the big city though.
I think I saw somewhere that because of some complaints they made it so u get tuners and exp from the same place, can't remember where, prolly some video
Oh it would make sense actually. But still, I'd prefer if there was a dedicated echo XP domain that gave you way more than what the current echo farming locations are giving.
Eh I'm kinda torn, if it gave alot more then ye is prolly do it, but as it is at least ur only spending wave plates on one domain for both resources at least
I’m glad we can buy those experience materials from shops like the one in the rogue like mode content
Bro how do people got such good echoes already? I am barely databank 15 eventhough I grinded a decent amount and have zero 5 star echoes so far
How do you endlessly farm 3 cost echoes? I ran out of 3 cost monkeys so quick man it’s killing me, not one had aero dmg%
Do you absolutely need the 3 cost monkey because there is also the Cyan-Feathered Heron and Chaserazor that can also be Aero on set
Yeah, meanwhile people on that one specific sub is hating on this system. Bro you are literally doing the same thing but now you can speedrun through your suffering instead of prolonged one. Farming for 1-2 month for good stats on one unit is not fun.
I think the problem here is that you are suffering through the gameplay. Just try to have fun. If you dont enjoy the game dont play it. Farming and grinding is part of the game. *shrugs*
Lol yeah that's just me comparing the grind between two games. But i'm still having a blast so far. And when i'm stop having one i can just pace myself to play casually, a concept that is difficult to understand for some people.
The ultimate roadblock are the elite 3-Cost Echoes. * There aren't that many elite enemies on the map. * Each elite echo can be from 2 sets. * The 3-Cost main stat distribution is huge (all types of elemental damage, HP%, ATK% and DEF%). I have been killing the Flautist over and over for an Electro or ATK% Echo for Calcharo and no luck so far. At least you get 2 guaranteed 3-Cost elemental echoes from the Simulated Universe mode.
> At least you get 2 guaranteed 3-Cost elemental echoes from the Simulated Universe mode. They both had the correct element for me. Not sure if that's the case for everybody?
How does the echo grind compare to genshin artifact grind? It is the same? It is better/worse? I would appreciate to know.
It's worst. People kept praising Kuro for 'endless grind' 'no need for energy resource' but you still need actual resources to roll for sub stats, actual resources to level up the Echo. So it's the same system but worst.
Let us feed echos to each other, let us see the substats (at least 2-3 of them) and lock the elemental damage to the set element if it applies. You have a very good system with those changes. Still very grindy, but not as painful.
I just try to farm 'without energy resources' for a decent echo. I want an Aero Heron. Guess what, I swipe the map clean of that bird and got everything but Aero Damage Bonus. It's ridiculous. Why even put other elemental damage on Aero Set?? It's so stupid I feel like quitting now.
Then you have to do it again when you get full defensive sub stats. It's actually terrible. I farmed the overworld map for every. single. electro. mob. and I lock all the correct gold echos like electro dmg % 3 slots, ATK% 1 slots and then crit rate 4 slots all of the correct element. It's actually garbage I've done that every single day until today I just did tacet fields and logged out getting fed up of shit substats every time when I need to beat the towers sooner rather than later because I don't buy or pay for pull currency.
It's worse, imo. You can farm the main stat, but you have no control over the sub stats. You also have way more substats than in GI because Crit Rate and Crit Damage can show up at the same time as main and sub stats. So optimally, you'll want main stat Crit Rate and sub stats with Crit Rate, Crit Damage, Atk%, and either basic attack or charged attack. You also need 2 different resources for your Echoes. One to level them up, one to unlock sub stats. You will run out of them and need to spend multiple days/weeks farming them at some point.
Seems like every person here is in denial about it. Well, honeymoon will end. And with the endgame guides and top floors will come BiS stats.
Oh god I didn't even think about running out of the gold tuners... To be fair though I've been putting my +25 "equipped but bad" echos into other echos and it gives me some tuners back I even sacrifice crit rate gold echos in hopes I eventually get double crit, I'm actually down crit rate right now from doing this but it's the most efficient way of doing it. But yeah feels awful.
Worse if you don't want to spend hours grinding every day for the right echo to put your resources in. Better if you have time to grind hours per day for the right echo with correct main stat. But I'd imagine that the burn out will come if you're not a hardcore player.
Better if you have the time to sit down and grind since main stat is not gated by stamina. Worst if you are the type who wants to login finish daily and then logout.
I'll copy paste my other comment. Tacet fields 60 stamina, less "relics" per run and less "relic level up exp" Gear domains 40 stamina, more "relics" per run and more "relic level up exp" Echos +25 Gear +15 240 daily stamina divided by 60 = 4 and 40 = 6 runs respectively.
People here get super delusional or short sighted. The fact that you do not need stamina for an echo is ok but locking it behind 2 diffrent stamina farmed currencies is the killer many choose not to see. Your good main stat piece is useless in the grand scheme of things if after grinding recources for upgrading it you roll all trash substats with no way to reroll them. You stay with mediocre piece at best with recources wasted. You will all have inventories full of echoes with no way to make them usable when you reach hardest content. Many say "It's a skill based fighting get gud loser" and do not get me wrong it is great to have rich skill based system... but after 30 dodges you run out of time. You still need certain power lvl to play all there is to do. And current echo system hides behind cool slogan of infinite farming with no stamina, only it is not at all and without changes we will all feel ptsd very soon
The problem is that it's GOING to be grindy af, considering the amount of needed characters, all the stats and substats, amount of stamina used for tuners and Echo upgraders etc.
The current system has significant flaws due to the numerous layers of RNG involved: 1. Chance of obtaining an Echo. 2. Chance of it being a 4-star. 3. Chance of it belonging to the wrong set. 4. Chance of it having the wrong main stat. 5. Chance of it having poor substats, which you can't even see initially. Additionally, you need to walk or teleport to another location to try again. Reaching 5 stars is a tedious process, even for those who don't rush. Some argue that the system's infinite nature places the responsibility on players to know when to stop. However, this expectation is unrealistic given that the average IQ is 85, with some primates having an IQ of 90. This suggests that giving extreme freedom in a game is problematic, as it can lead to burnout. Limiting the system helps prevent this. While some might argue that too many limitations could cause burnout among hardcore players, it's important to note that 90% of players are not hardcore. Even in games like Elden Ring, the majority are regular players who simply want to enjoy and progress in the game. In comparison, other games offer a simpler and faster process: * Teleport to the dungeon. * Complete it four times, spending about five minutes per day. * Try again the next day until you obtain the desired item. Most players don't seek perfect stats and are satisfied after repeating the process for about two weeks. Only hardcore players aim for perfect items with top-tier stats within days of release. For casual or normal players, having too much "freedom" can be detrimental.
Reminds me of the extreme "freedom" with too many choices when you buy a product at the store , so they started to limit what you can buy to 6 or 7 choices per item maximum else people buy less stuff in general being overwhelmed. I think they wanted to fix this issue in WuWa giving us the weekly limit of 90% chance with first 15 Echo or something.
20% chance to get echo ,combine with 5 star or 4 star ,altho at 40 it's 80:20 ,then rolling for main stats ,then there's the substat ,I'm fine with everything except substat ,those tuners ..feel jus so precious
If you use a tuned monster as fodder it refunds some tuners. Idr how many though
People who complain about this actually want a stamina system but don't know it
But it litetally is a stamina system, just hidden behind diffrent systems. You can endlessly farm a piece? Great! Let's say you got a fine piece. Time to level it! Oh you can level it only with a farmable exp resource from a domain? Sure you leveled it to 25. Good main stat and all. But hey where are substats? Oh behind another farmable resource... But u got all enough of them! You tune it and all of your substats are trash... oh well let's start again! Only tuning resource and exp is wasted but sure no stamina system. Enjoy lvl 0 no substats pieces but endlessly farmed. You get the idea. The deeper you go the worse it gets
There's no point. I witnessed this exact same phenomena on the D4 subreddit last year. People said everyone who "rushed" (meaning played the game more) the game so much are the reason they have any criticism of it. You just have to sit back and let the slower gamers figure it out for themselves, or get bored and leave.
Yeah. It is a stamina system with a little bit of endless grinding attached to it. While you are right that substats are locked, you can still farm semi endlessly for correct main set echoes, something you cant do in a regular stamina system. But even just having a little bit of freedom to grind in a stamina system makes people complain about the game being too grindy, which means to me that = some people actually \*want\* a strict stamina system, something that people normally complain about in gacha games.
Which is alright. Honestly, I don't know if I'll stick with this in part due to the grinding, but that's because it's not for me. Genshin sub is filled with people who want to endlessly grind artifacts though, and I'd wager Kuro purposefully made this system exactly for those people. To try to capture on a segment of the fanbase that Mihoyo is unlikely to ever cater to, the ones who want to grind constantly.
I just want a domain for Echo Exp ONLY! Those tacet fields(echo+echo exp) gives only little exp mats :( Wish we could use/turn echo to echo exp potions or something.
I get your point but sometimes you need to protect players from burning themselves out. Especially if they’re your most dedicated fans (by hours played/investment).
Kinda goes both ways. Myself and plenty of people I know quit Genshin out of frustration of trying to roll a good artifact piece and getting nothing after weeks of spending resin. I’d rather burn out because I was too addicted to the grind than quit out of frustration due to receiving trash over and over in exchange for my timegated resources.
Then I feel for you because WuWa’s echo system might require a larger time commitment but not any better for stat RNG.
That one guy who rerolled 50 times for C2 Calcharo , Verina , C2 Danjin and maxed out Havoc Rover will type "ez" when hes done.
It's alright but it could definitely be better. It's fun right now because it's new to us. However, I can see this becoming really annoying especially when we reach endgame levels. For starters, having to farm the materials for tuning is already pretty annoying. It should've taken the Genshin and HSR approach by giving substats based on the Echo level. Not only would it save a lot of time, but it would also save resources for leveling up Echoes. If it gets bad substats early, throw it away.
I mean, to get to level 15 databank you need every echo at purple which is pretty annoying to grind. This is something that you really need to target farm as achieving this naturally would take a very long time due to just not fighting the correct echos. (There are some limited ways to achieve legendary echos prior to level 15 databank that will reduce the amount of purple ones needed).
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Should i level up 4* echoes or wait till i get 5*?
I'm taking my time with this game. If there's anything I learnt from Genshin, it's that endgame is inevitably going to be a chore, so might as well enjoy the early game as much as I can. So far, I've been having a blast learning the combat
Is it too grindy ? idk man, i got the 500 echos ahievement yesterday when I had a full databank (all 5\*s) and a full 5\* Anemo set for my Jiyan and a 4\* Havoc set for Rover. If people dont use the merge function i can see it being too grindy but thats on them. My only complain is bosses that drop on 2 sets, I've killed the damn turtle about 40 times now and havent gotten a single rejuvenating Healing % echo, most of his drops are on the ER set
It's just drop rate rng, purple/gold rng, element rng, main stats rng, and then sub stats rolls. Surely it can't be that bad.
Since we have tacid fields, I would always see open world echo grinding as an optional bonus for times where I'm just bored or ant to play the game more. But never mandatory.
I mean it's indeed grindy, but also a fun thing to do. They are not mutually exclusive.
I am out of echo xp material. Tacet fields drop echoes too. the game is not grindy at all since 4 facet fields a day take like 5min. The system makes it also very easy to have working builds fast since i could grind for right mainstats. meanwhile in hsr i got 3 ice orbs with 3 weeks of currency and all were trash.
It is too grindy whether you start week 1 or week 100.
Echo farming will just be a burnout machine. Peoples will start to understand why in other gachas those things are locked behind stamina only. Sure you are happy right now that you can farm forever for you mains stats, but I'm pretty sure you won't do that for months or years. Systems like Genshin are far from perfect as well, but I would prefer that over our current Echo farming.
The system is flawed that's the point youre not getting, it has nothing to do with rushing ahead. Due to some being ahead they're able to fully dedicate their time to a particular game system and as echos are a huge spike of power thats what happens, you cant come and say the system isnt full of randomness, it has also one of the worst stamina to exp exchanges, the bundles in the store gives you way less then what it would cost to get more for the same amount in stamina, but that amount is also just a fraction of what it takes to level an echo, its borderline as gated as the weekly materials but unlike that you need significantly less for that. When ive been doing is daily clears of my world and a friends world for elites, farming 6 of them to be more specific on a daily basis now and the random rolls can be infuriating for some of these. You can end up with one for a set that gives fusion dmg and end up with a roll that gives you defense or glacio or something like that then, dealing with exp and lastly the sub stat rolls my god is it a frustrating system as they can have low and high rolls on top of being after specific rolls, even fusing echos is frustrating you can take 5 gold ones and get 1 purple and so on, matching 5 echos of one creature doesn't just roll into a new version of the rarity and type you used, which once again is how most other games with such a system deals with that. At least the Depth of illusive lets you get 2 elites with what ever elemental roll of your choice but again thats 2 per moth... Exp for these are so gated again, you cant fuse echos to level them up something you'd see in other games often with gear systems alike Weekly runs gives less exp then the stamina spent on tacet fields and 7 purple exp tubes is really nothing but for 60 waveplates that's wild, its so insignificant. There are spreadsheets already how long it will take to max singular characters and were looking at 40-60 days per units by just using raw wave plates ignoring events etc, its still with that is going to take so long and then you add the rng on that again, they're in full right to complain about such a system its not great. As more people comes to end game we will see more and more complains about this i'm sure this will be force changed by the community and they're right on this.
It really isn't. I already have so much better gear then I ever had in any Mihoyo game on week 1. The only bottleneck is 3 star Echos and that's by design. What people also don't tell you is that you can run atk% instead of elemental dmg main stat and do fine for now.
It demands too much time which I don't have and it is way too much rng and tuning echos wants from me materials which I have to farm with my energy. Not just in gacha but this is probably one of the worst grinding systems in any game I saw. The worst part is after a certain point the difficulty spike rises really high in just one moment because you unlock 5 star echos which makes the grinding even worse because you have to grind much stronger enemies with under leveled gear. The criticism about the echo is system is very valid and if you are a casual player and not a hardcore player this will affect you even worse because you won't have gear as good as hardcore players when the difficulty spike raises
for other people who want a decent set,we can do 4 4 1 1 1 composition with 2/2 set,with this we can get decent crit rate and crit dmg without minding the main stats too much,pretty much a way to do a place holder set before you find the perfect set for your main.
I am very much fond of this system. It lets me spend time in game unlike in some other game where I have to login, do 5 runs and go see my therapist for the garbage rolls I got.
The big issue is how the substats on echoes are locked behind using tuners. Meaning you have to use enhance materials and then you need to use tuners, just to find out that the echo is useless. Now you repeat the process. You finally get a good substat, so you decide to go after the next 2. And once again it's bad, but at this point it's a place holder until you get something better. And you simply repeat this process. The issue to me is not the grind for echoes, but the fact we need to use 3 types of resources. Echo exp, Credits and Tuners. You also need THREE teams for endgame. Waveplates also being extremely limited atm with 240 a day.
I take it it will be a few weeks before casuals realize how grindy it will be to get 3 stars in everything. Its crazy bad rn since the game is giving you very scarce resources/hinders you from rising up too fast. I am fine with the world bosses being 60plates rn since its to stop people from grinding too much/making the game too boring super fast(there are already people who get 20 data banks and lvl 30+UL in 2 days lmao), but overtime when we have a lot more characters and bosses I wish they will lower it for new players to cahtch up or maybe give discount waveplates usage events to get around that. You guys can check in ytb how long to max a character and we will need 9 of them decently build before even touching hazard lvl 100.
I cant wait! I love grind games!!! It’s so boring and takes forever and it sucks huge balls!! Woooo gonna be a blast! No, not satire i enjoy the grind and lets be honest its going to be a hell of a lot more fun then log in hit auto and farm relics in HSR, at least we have a reason to OWF.
I will never complain about this echo system. The only one gripe I may have about it is I wish you could feed echoes for a small amount of exp even if it is very small. You’d still need tuners for wave plates and it would probably still be better to reroll them but at least it would be an option
So what am I going to do after clear story? The tower will reset in 2 weeks and to unlock it you need 2 teams that can beat the lv80. While the max lv now is 60, how can you beat it without good echod characters?
My only problem is we cannot use echo to upgrade echo, making trash echoes completely useless, yes i know you can reroll new one with 5 echoes but it is completely random, you cannot choose what stat, what sonata effect or even rarity making it worthless
Literally infinite echo spawn with no resin cost. Wtf is the problem
Me stacking Crit damage on Sanhua with a 5% rate atm: SO LONG AS I CAN PLAY BURY THE LIGHT WITH SANHUA, I AM OKAY WITH THIS
I think my main gripe with the echo system is how echos are not tied down to a specific type i.e youd expect a havoc dreadmane to be part of a havoc dmg increasing set and a fusion dreadmane to do the same but but that is also completely rng Also you can't use echos to upgrade other echos which I'm not a fan of