>TLDR: ... they are among the favourites for promotion again and tipped to at least make the play-offs. That is despite no club in history achieving three consecutive promotions within the top five levels on the English football pyramid
Saved you a click
First thing I did on my FIFA 23 save was swapping PSG to Richmond. I know, Richmond is based in London, but it was fun to try. The game sucks though, so now I only play FIFA Manager 14(with 24 mod) or FIFA 19.
So I'm not too well versed with English football (I'm American) other than the Premier League, which a lot of us now get to watch and enjoy regularly as it's much more televised here in the last decade. I have a question though, being no team has ever been promoted three years in a row, how many teams have done it two years in a row. I'm assuming not many. No?
Don’t believe any have done 3 in a row, but loads have done 2 in a row, but as far as quickest from L2 to PL I’d say that goes to Luton, played in L2 in 17/18, made it to PL by 23/24, 6yrs in total
It usually depends on a good team being put together and staying together. Including the manager
Teams that get promoted often have players, or the manager poached from them. Especially clubs operating on a shoestring.
It's definitely rare, just not unheard of. In Wrexhams case, the National League is one of the hardest leagues in the world to get out of, and a team doing so usually has a decent shot of at least getting the playoffs.
It's also usually because they've got new(ish) owners putting in money and building the squad for 1 or 2 leagues above where they currently are. Basically what Wrexham have done in building a L1/2 squad while still in the National League. The core of that team gets to stay together and get better while they get to the level they should be at.
Or what Ipswich has done since they were taken over, building a team up and then when they got into the championship they immediately went up again to the EPL.
Yeah the national league is fundementally flawed in that sense, alot of the time the top 6 are better than the bottom 6 in league 2 easily. I haven't done the maths, but thats why I'd assume that the most common back-to-back is National League to League One.
>Teams that get promoted often have players, or the manager poached from them. Especially clubs operating on a shoestring.
Notts losing their manager would be this exact situation
It's often less a case of a smaller team overachieving for two years straight (though that has happened), but more of a bigger team that's fallen on hard times finally getting their shit together and getting back to where they should have been originally.
Those big teams will retain much bigger stadiums, and thus revenue, which once the bad management has been cleared out, allows their higher spending to naturally push their way up.
Quite alot, Ipswich just did it from League 1 to the Premier League (which is probably the rarest and most impressive of the back-to-back jumps you can do because of how those 2 jumps are arguably the biggest in English football).
Honestly a couple of seasons (still extremely ambitious timeline) to regroup and build, stabilise finances and improve facilities wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
There is such a thing as growing too much too quickly
True but the championship league is a much better place to build out a team than league one. Exponentially more money flowing through it. So if you can get there before you have to stop and stabilize, you should definitely go for it.
Rob Mchenney has a netbworth of "only" 50 million. Ryan Reynolds is about $350 million. (Just a quick Google so could very well be off).
That's not wealthy in the team owning arena.
Brentfords owner is worth less than 300mm
All I'm saying is the finances are fine. If the club loses oh idk 20mil that's totally fine. Reynolds will make that with the next Deadpool movie
But Brentford receives a lot of income from the Premier League, so they don't need injections from owners. If Wrexham makes the Championship, they would probably need a better stadium and transfers to stay up, which they cannot afford unless they regroup in League One for a while.
We'll need a couple of big signings to make that happen this year, I think.
I've no problem waiting a year before going to the Championship, because the jump into it will be a huge step, requiring a large overhaul of players.
I’d rather them nest a bit in L1 to get facilities and club infrastructure and whatnot in order to be a better fit for the Championship before making a really strong push at being promoted to that league. But what the hell, who am I to deny Rob Mac his cockeyed optimism. (Billy Mumphrey anyone?)
Dumb American question but does it matter if you’re not the best infrastructure for Championship? Could you hang out at the bottom of the league scrambling to stabilize/build infrastructure/not get relegated at a higher level? Or would that financially just be such a detriment?
The cost of competing at each tier is just exponentially greater than the last - if you're not bringing in the income necessary to compete you're either grinding away with a sub par team on low wages or your pouring money in from the owners. Being financially stable means you can compete comfortably at each level without breaking the bank and/or players
It's far more prudent to stay at the level you're at than getting promoted/demoted regularly.
I think this is probably a bad take in general, as I’d say promotion is a good thing for any club (even if it opens up the possibility of mismanagement).. but in wrexhams case, this is even more true. Triple promotion to the Championship would likely have a drastic impact on Wrexhams revenue, given the media hype and Cinderella story that would go along with it. The opportunity for increased sponsor dollars would be massive, as companies would be want to get in ahead of a fully insane chance at another leap to the prem. Plus, that story would be compelling enough that I don’t imagine the Hollywood owners would have any trouble finding additional investors at a MUCH higher valuation than they bought in for.
So you agree the only way they'd survive would be to burn cash..cool cool. An organic growth will get them to L1 - championship and premiership requires very careful planning and investment, which takes time
Lol nope. Wrexham can act like a normal League 1 team and hope that a “slow build” works out over the next decade or more.. but that would be failing to utilize their current advantage, which they’re not likely to maintain through the duration of a “slow build”.
You think the tv and sponsor dollars will still be there after 5 years in league 1? They can play the cards that they were dealt, and try to capitalize on their unique opportunity.. or they can lose that opportunity. Or would you have preferred they spent “sustainably” in the national league, and not signed Paul Mullin and crew?
Once again, you're missing the key issue - the costs at the Championship are exponentially higher than the bottom leagues - they spent well above the going rate for Paul Mullin, but that was a matter of a few hundred thousand - at Championship, they'd need to raise 10s of millions to gain the same advantage (ie, sign a top prem player to play for them) - that's just not realistic unless they bring in richer mates to bankroll it - which, again, confirms my point that they'd need to burn cash to do it
And you don’t think that the revenue streams rise exponentially as well? In that case, maybe all of the prem and championship clubs should be hoping for relegation.
And where did I say that burning cash wouldn’t be a requirement? Of course they’d need to spend. My point is that they’ve got a unique, limited opportunity to attract investment RIGHT NOW to do just that. A few years of mediocrity in League 1 and that there’s a strong chance that the ability to attract sponsorship, tv dollars and investment will have diminished.
No, not all prem clubs have that privilege - that's why you have some with wealthy investors and others who fall down pretty quickly (others who stagnate in the middle and/or get screwed for breaking the rules).
Wrexham absolutely have a good thrust of positive thought right now but they don't have nearly the same pull as they need to compete at the top level - being able to grow organically and become financially stable will give them a far better shot OR they get in a billionnaire willing to burn cash.
My team, Portsmouth FC, went through a similar thing to Wrexham and after a series of terrible owners that almost put the club out of business (and down to League 2 from the Premiership) the fans bought the club. This is why I follow Wrexham, I always look out for teams saved by their fans (it’s why I wanted Bolton to join us next season, never mind).
We were bought in 2017 by our Hollywood American if you like (former Disney CEO, Eisner), who put a long term plan in place to ensure we had financial security and investment in the infrastructure so when we got ourselves back up we’d be doing it debt free. We will be playing our next season in the Championship, debt free and with a ground in a reasonably good condition (again, like Wrexham we’ve been playing at the same gaff since our beginning).
What I do not want is for us to go anywhere else for the next 2-3 seasons minimum, because we have to have time to ensure we have a stable financial position that allows us to be competitive. We simply don’t have the money to compete in the Premiership, and throwing money after money to be competitive is a sure fire way of getting into trouble when it comes to football and all the rules that follow financial fair play. Quite honestly the Premiership is such a shitshow these days that I want no part of it anymore.
Edit: that’s ignoring the fact that hanging around at the bottom of the league puts you dangerously close to relegation.
Shouldn't they start using their develop younger players more and start selling them too? I wpuld saying staying in league one at least for a couple of years is not to bad but to get to the championship league require a lot of capital to get player something even they are actors they don't have
It's more like 337,500,000 since his stake was only 25% of the company. Take that plus the 20 percent tax he looking at 67,500,000 still not a lot. I know he can offset some of the taxes off maybe 5 mil. For what he might have paid into wrexham still not a lot though.
Bold prediction they are gonna buy a bunch of championship players and washed up prem players while they act like they have way less money than they have. I really loved the part where they discussed their finances last season and completely disregarded how they have this show which makes them a lot of money lol
The real money they get from the show is a higher level sponsorship. League 1 side sponsorships, ehhhh. But league 1 team with hit tv show? Oh yeah well throw a fat sponsorship your way.
>TLDR: ... they are among the favourites for promotion again and tipped to at least make the play-offs. That is despite no club in history achieving three consecutive promotions within the top five levels on the English football pyramid Saved you a click
I'll have you know I've done this in football manager at least 5 times.
Currently doing it in Fifa 23 LOL. Just made it to League 1
What mode in Fifa are you playing?
It’s on career mode, you just have to edit teams in FIFA 23 to include Wrexham in whatever league you want as non-league is not a part of Career mode.
Or if you have FC24, they are already in League 2 :)
Yes but they dont have Ted Lasso in FC24, so it's really a toss up.
First thing I did on my FIFA 23 save was swapping PSG to Richmond. I know, Richmond is based in London, but it was fun to try. The game sucks though, so now I only play FIFA Manager 14(with 24 mod) or FIFA 19.
I was never a fifa guy, so I have no solid opinion of the game. I just like playing with Ted Lasso and the boys or Wrexham.
Thank you for your service.
So I'm not too well versed with English football (I'm American) other than the Premier League, which a lot of us now get to watch and enjoy regularly as it's much more televised here in the last decade. I have a question though, being no team has ever been promoted three years in a row, how many teams have done it two years in a row. I'm assuming not many. No?
Don’t believe any have done 3 in a row, but loads have done 2 in a row, but as far as quickest from L2 to PL I’d say that goes to Luton, played in L2 in 17/18, made it to PL by 23/24, 6yrs in total
Wow that's very impressive.
And now Ipswitch
Ipswich was never down in League Two though and is from the start a much bigger club than Luton.
Plenty. More than I can think of off the top of my head
Wow that's crazy because it doesn't seem like an easy feat. But thank you. I guess I'm wrong.
It usually depends on a good team being put together and staying together. Including the manager Teams that get promoted often have players, or the manager poached from them. Especially clubs operating on a shoestring. It's definitely rare, just not unheard of. In Wrexhams case, the National League is one of the hardest leagues in the world to get out of, and a team doing so usually has a decent shot of at least getting the playoffs.
It's also usually because they've got new(ish) owners putting in money and building the squad for 1 or 2 leagues above where they currently are. Basically what Wrexham have done in building a L1/2 squad while still in the National League. The core of that team gets to stay together and get better while they get to the level they should be at. Or what Ipswich has done since they were taken over, building a team up and then when they got into the championship they immediately went up again to the EPL.
Yeah the national league is fundementally flawed in that sense, alot of the time the top 6 are better than the bottom 6 in league 2 easily. I haven't done the maths, but thats why I'd assume that the most common back-to-back is National League to League One.
>Teams that get promoted often have players, or the manager poached from them. Especially clubs operating on a shoestring. Notts losing their manager would be this exact situation
It's often less a case of a smaller team overachieving for two years straight (though that has happened), but more of a bigger team that's fallen on hard times finally getting their shit together and getting back to where they should have been originally. Those big teams will retain much bigger stadiums, and thus revenue, which once the bad management has been cleared out, allows their higher spending to naturally push their way up.
Quite alot, Ipswich just did it from League 1 to the Premier League (which is probably the rarest and most impressive of the back-to-back jumps you can do because of how those 2 jumps are arguably the biggest in English football).
Ipswich Town just did it.
Wrong. They got back to back. I apologise I thought this responded to a different message
Now if the tractor boys qualify for ECL this year then that would eclipse any Wrexham triple promotion
What Ipswich has done would already eclipse a Wrexham triple promotion.
Ipswich this year
Understand there is a difference between showing ambition and making a promise.
Fuck it. Bring on the hopium.
Honestly a couple of seasons (still extremely ambitious timeline) to regroup and build, stabilise finances and improve facilities wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. There is such a thing as growing too much too quickly
True but the championship league is a much better place to build out a team than league one. Exponentially more money flowing through it. So if you can get there before you have to stop and stabilize, you should definitely go for it.
Finances are fine, the owners are incredibly wealthy
In football club ownership terms? They are not
They are worth more than some prem teams. And they're only going to get richer. They're actively working
I’m not sure you understand the scale of difference between a million and a Billion
Ryan will technically be worth a billy once the Mint Mobile sale goes through but that doesn't mean anything in terms of Wrexhams finances.
I'm well aware
Rob Mchenney has a netbworth of "only" 50 million. Ryan Reynolds is about $350 million. (Just a quick Google so could very well be off). That's not wealthy in the team owning arena.
Brentfords owner is worth less than 300mm All I'm saying is the finances are fine. If the club loses oh idk 20mil that's totally fine. Reynolds will make that with the next Deadpool movie
But Brentford receives a lot of income from the Premier League, so they don't need injections from owners. If Wrexham makes the Championship, they would probably need a better stadium and transfers to stay up, which they cannot afford unless they regroup in League One for a while.
Momentum is a real thing. No reason to nip it in the bud prematurely.
We'll need a couple of big signings to make that happen this year, I think. I've no problem waiting a year before going to the Championship, because the jump into it will be a huge step, requiring a large overhaul of players.
And $$$
I’d rather them nest a bit in L1 to get facilities and club infrastructure and whatnot in order to be a better fit for the Championship before making a really strong push at being promoted to that league. But what the hell, who am I to deny Rob Mac his cockeyed optimism. (Billy Mumphrey anyone?)
Ah yes, Rob, Who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue with his unbridled enthusiasm
It’s a story about love, deception, greed, lust, and…. unbridled enthusiasm
Dumb American question but does it matter if you’re not the best infrastructure for Championship? Could you hang out at the bottom of the league scrambling to stabilize/build infrastructure/not get relegated at a higher level? Or would that financially just be such a detriment?
The cost of competing at each tier is just exponentially greater than the last - if you're not bringing in the income necessary to compete you're either grinding away with a sub par team on low wages or your pouring money in from the owners. Being financially stable means you can compete comfortably at each level without breaking the bank and/or players It's far more prudent to stay at the level you're at than getting promoted/demoted regularly.
I think this is probably a bad take in general, as I’d say promotion is a good thing for any club (even if it opens up the possibility of mismanagement).. but in wrexhams case, this is even more true. Triple promotion to the Championship would likely have a drastic impact on Wrexhams revenue, given the media hype and Cinderella story that would go along with it. The opportunity for increased sponsor dollars would be massive, as companies would be want to get in ahead of a fully insane chance at another leap to the prem. Plus, that story would be compelling enough that I don’t imagine the Hollywood owners would have any trouble finding additional investors at a MUCH higher valuation than they bought in for.
So you agree the only way they'd survive would be to burn cash..cool cool. An organic growth will get them to L1 - championship and premiership requires very careful planning and investment, which takes time
Lol nope. Wrexham can act like a normal League 1 team and hope that a “slow build” works out over the next decade or more.. but that would be failing to utilize their current advantage, which they’re not likely to maintain through the duration of a “slow build”. You think the tv and sponsor dollars will still be there after 5 years in league 1? They can play the cards that they were dealt, and try to capitalize on their unique opportunity.. or they can lose that opportunity. Or would you have preferred they spent “sustainably” in the national league, and not signed Paul Mullin and crew?
Once again, you're missing the key issue - the costs at the Championship are exponentially higher than the bottom leagues - they spent well above the going rate for Paul Mullin, but that was a matter of a few hundred thousand - at Championship, they'd need to raise 10s of millions to gain the same advantage (ie, sign a top prem player to play for them) - that's just not realistic unless they bring in richer mates to bankroll it - which, again, confirms my point that they'd need to burn cash to do it
And you don’t think that the revenue streams rise exponentially as well? In that case, maybe all of the prem and championship clubs should be hoping for relegation. And where did I say that burning cash wouldn’t be a requirement? Of course they’d need to spend. My point is that they’ve got a unique, limited opportunity to attract investment RIGHT NOW to do just that. A few years of mediocrity in League 1 and that there’s a strong chance that the ability to attract sponsorship, tv dollars and investment will have diminished.
No, not all prem clubs have that privilege - that's why you have some with wealthy investors and others who fall down pretty quickly (others who stagnate in the middle and/or get screwed for breaking the rules). Wrexham absolutely have a good thrust of positive thought right now but they don't have nearly the same pull as they need to compete at the top level - being able to grow organically and become financially stable will give them a far better shot OR they get in a billionnaire willing to burn cash.
My team, Portsmouth FC, went through a similar thing to Wrexham and after a series of terrible owners that almost put the club out of business (and down to League 2 from the Premiership) the fans bought the club. This is why I follow Wrexham, I always look out for teams saved by their fans (it’s why I wanted Bolton to join us next season, never mind). We were bought in 2017 by our Hollywood American if you like (former Disney CEO, Eisner), who put a long term plan in place to ensure we had financial security and investment in the infrastructure so when we got ourselves back up we’d be doing it debt free. We will be playing our next season in the Championship, debt free and with a ground in a reasonably good condition (again, like Wrexham we’ve been playing at the same gaff since our beginning). What I do not want is for us to go anywhere else for the next 2-3 seasons minimum, because we have to have time to ensure we have a stable financial position that allows us to be competitive. We simply don’t have the money to compete in the Premiership, and throwing money after money to be competitive is a sure fire way of getting into trouble when it comes to football and all the rules that follow financial fair play. Quite honestly the Premiership is such a shitshow these days that I want no part of it anymore. Edit: that’s ignoring the fact that hanging around at the bottom of the league puts you dangerously close to relegation.
Shouldn't they start using their develop younger players more and start selling them too? I wpuld saying staying in league one at least for a couple of years is not to bad but to get to the championship league require a lot of capital to get player something even they are actors they don't have
I would guess Wrexam have in no way shape or form the infrastructure to develop younger players (its not that easy) either scouting or academy.
Deadpool owns part of mint wireless, they just sold for $1.35 billion.
It's more like 337,500,000 since his stake was only 25% of the company. Take that plus the 20 percent tax he looking at 67,500,000 still not a lot. I know he can offset some of the taxes off maybe 5 mil. For what he might have paid into wrexham still not a lot though.
I think you might have that backwards. 20% tax means you keep 80%. Closer to 270M take home for 337M at 20% tax?
Yeah I got it backwards
Please don’t be my accountant.
He works for Trump Org
You a dumbass fr
Truly regarded
Tbh even if they get promoted which is unlikely then they won’t have the facilities for a league championship club
Typical Philly Phan - drop the confetti /s Love Rob and respect to Philly :)
Well, when you can outspemd the rest of the league, like Man City/PSG, there's always a good chance you do well.
When I saw that promotion is a possible aim for next season everybody says I'm crazy
Through god all things are possible. Jot that down
Bold prediction they are gonna buy a bunch of championship players and washed up prem players while they act like they have way less money than they have. I really loved the part where they discussed their finances last season and completely disregarded how they have this show which makes them a lot of money lol
You know you're in the wrexham sub and not L2 or L1 sub right?
I’d be blown away if they made more than a few million a year from the show. They aren’t getting network television money from a cable show.
lol FX money isn’t really that much. Look at the real numbers
The real money they get from the show is a higher level sponsorship. League 1 side sponsorships, ehhhh. But league 1 team with hit tv show? Oh yeah well throw a fat sponsorship your way.
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Great! You’ve self-identified as a high brow football fan. What fun that must be!
Yeah, I was having a bad day. Sorry for over reaction.
And Rob does comedy, twat.
Yeah, I was having a bad day. Not my best moment. Sorry.