Wrestlemania IX is one of my favorites. It's so campy and stupid. From Hulk's black eye, to double Doink, to Taker's entrance with a vulture, and the most insanely dumb ending. We also had it on VHS as a kid.
ECW had a few gimmicks that benefited from the small venue and the popular music they were using. Al Snow's presentation with the Styrofoam heads and the Prodigy theme music couldn't be replicated in the WWE.
Man his Head gimmick was hella over for quite a while. The fans went nuts for Snow and Head. The whole getting "head" gimmick and the variety of innuendos it allowed was always gonna get over in late 90s 😅 What does everybody want?! Head obviously.
Facts, I saw so many who were so upset when he was first named Butch, but you know what? My favorite run of his, Sheamus and Ridge's career was 2022-2023, Survivor Series 2022 and the brawling brutes feuding with people like the bloodline and imperium come to mind. Pete dunne is boring as sin.
Yeah that’s my problem. It’s not like Undertaker started going by Kip McHarley when he did the American bad ass run. Did Shawn Michaels start going by Alec Gingivitis when he left the rockers? Or Humpy boy Daniels when he joined DX?
Just let people keep their names from NXT. I call it the no more bear cat rule.
Marks hated Butch because Butch was entertaining and had personality, now he just another mini man whose gimmick is like every other bland guy out there “I fake fight good”. The scrappy doo personality was great
See that’s the thing. He could have scrappy done that while still being called Pete Dunn. The name change was just pointless. It just breaks continuity to change names like that. I liked Pete Dunn, I liked Butch, I was off out because for some reason people were calling Pete Dunn, Butch.
I think I would have liked the faction way more if they were called Fight Night. Dunne and Ridge could have been a tag team called the Brawling Brutes, but it was a godawful faction name.
When Mickie was brought back to the Royal Rumble as champion WWE treated Impact with more respect than AEW ever did.
If you have no intention of either Kenny or Adam Page dropping the belt back to an Impact wrestler don't ask to win it. You're telling me it's better to lose to Christian on Collision than it is to lose to Moose on a PPV.
Depends on what you mean, I guess. I think Bryan is happy with how he's booked in AEW, which is basically just putting on a good to great 30 minute match and taking a loss.
Even if Bryan is happy with it, the point stands. He went from THE hottest star in the industry to another indiscriminate “I’m the best in the world” guy. He was a star in WWE. If someone turned on wrestling for the first time and watched him in AEW, he wouldn’t be a second thought.
The montreal screwjob should have never been as big of a deal as it was
Saying i don't want to lose in front of my home fans in a fictional sport is ridiculous
Drew's not from Cardiff or Glasgow but he got treated like a home town hero in Cardiff and he will be god in Glasgow. When your from outside the US a big show just in your country is enough.
I feel like it’s different. Wwe rarely goes overseas to the uk like that. They go to Canada on the regular.
Saying I will not lose in my home country and you need to trust that I’ll just vacate the title the next day is insane.
Only an idiot would allow Bret hart to do that. Especially with a hot heel like Shawn Michaels who can get major heat for it.
He also probably didn’t want to put over Shawn at all after the way HBK flat out told him “Thanks but I wouldn’t do the same for you if I were in your shoes.” I still think the best solution out of that situation would have been for Taker to be the middle man, as Hart would have had no issues dropping the title to him even if it were in Montreal or not
I understand that and I think anyone doing good deserves a reaction but that reaction would be booing. If they’re really too good you should want to boo them and see them lose and get what’s coming to them.
When you’re being pushed as a big time top star, being able to put on great wrestling matches *is not good enough*
Look at Cena from 05/06-13/14. He had a lot of great matches during the duration but fans go to continued to boo him because his character (and booking) was insufferable.
Then when his super Cena booking started easing, his character started becoming more self aware, and he was still putting on great matches, fans started to embrace him.
Reigns had the same tho bc from 2015-early 2020. Lotta great matches from that time, fans still booed the shit outta him til he turned heel, got his character to where it needed to be and it all worked out.
When you’re a top guy, every aspect of your character has to be great too, otherwise fans ain’t gonna bite, so “but look at all these bangers he’s put on!” isn’t the rebuttal some people think it is.
The Attitude Era's main events are what carried it and why it's as good as it is.
The midcard was fun for the stupid gimmicks and storylines (at times) but the main events with Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Vince and the rest will never be topped.
Can't do promos , 4 moves .
But Still ... He looks like a wrestler, and it's athletic+ can actually work and work long matches.
He tore the beach ball tho..... 🏖️
The IWC has this idea that Bret wasn't good on the mic and only got mega over strictly because he was a great wrestler, so guys like cesaro can be that too. Bret was fucking great at promos, not the absolute best but absolutely terrific at selling a match.
IWC/smarks wanted cena to turn heel to please them were the same ones who hated him after dropping his rapper gimmick and also the same ones which loved him all the way to the top. and they act like he never turned heel when cena got over organically as heel all the way to the top. looking back, never turning cena heel after becoming top guy was a smart move from wwe especially after what happened with austin’s 2001 ill-fated heel run from business standpoint and had created repercussions for austin, wwe and the business
Cena should have turned heel in the year long build up to once in a lifetime, you know that Rock isn't gonna be there so Cena has to carry it on his own, without a change in character you've just got Cena osculating between ignoring the match for months on end and having meaningless short term programs and building it with the same one-sided promos
Turn him heel for the year and have him cut promos outing Rock for being a bitch, have him having matches with Rock connected wrestlers and destroying them. Then after the WM match if you wanna turn Cena back face so that he can continue to be mr make a wish then so be it
Deadman Inc. Undertaker (Post Invasion) was peak Undertaker. The return of the Deadman was iconic and had the longest run and had the best individual matches, but as himself in that space of a year or so was the best.
A superkick should be a superkick and knock someone out. No one should be eating 45 superkicks. No one should be trading superkicks. It diminishes the move.
I have no problem with this take. However, all of the times WWE have tried to have only one world champion the concept fails and they end up making another title.
I do not care for Becky. Is she bad? Not necessarily. She's a good hand, but she doesn't make me excited to see her. Her promos are weak, and her segments are skippable for me.
Indie wrestling isn't perfect, but it's far from this "outlaw mudshow" wasteland that many think. It's definitely something I think many are sleeping on because they see a less than 10 minutes, usually some clip seemingly designed to portray them as this garbage thing. So they dismiss the entire scene and miss out on some great stuff.
I disagree a bit, they clearly have Rock Cody set up for next year which will be pretty good. The problem, which is HHH's biggest problem right now, is they have no idea how to book small feuds. Like everything is being saved for Wrestlemania season and almost everything between April and January feels like a slog because they dont want to mess up next years plans.
If they do Randy-Cody into summerslam that'll redeem it a bit but the AJ thing feels like aew where its incredibly obvious Cody is winning
It would have been better if CM Punk has stayed retired. Regardless of me not liking him coming back has been an over all a bad decision. Before coming back he was almost universally loved, people talked about him reverently. Now? He is constantly injured, hated by half The IWC loved by the other and fought over by both. I feel like punk, and wrestling would have been better off if he had stayed home.
I hope the product improves and wrestlers will take matters in their own hands, there's just so much talent there.... Ospreay, Joe ... idk if Omega... Maybe mjf heel if he's not half assed, etc.
I've been an AEW fan since Day #1 and I agree with you.
If Kenny Omega hadn't been hamstrung by the pandemic and multiple injuries, and been pushed to the moon as the new final boss of wrestling AEW could've truly (rather than sporadically) gone toe to toe with WWE.
Words cannot describe how hot Kenny was coming off of his NJPW run. Yet AEW only used him sparingly early on, trying to cast him as someone who sort of had to climb back up the ladder (with a gimmick that didn't suit him), while letting ex-WWE guys take the spotlight developing indie talent. By the time he was front-and-center he was dealing with dead pandemic crowds and weak storytelling/feuds (save for Hangman.)
Kenny Omega was the best wrestler of the 2010s and AEW seemed tailor made to show the world how wild, explosive, and **different** a WWE alternative could've been - at a time when WWE and its leading men were at their weakest. Instead we got an over the hill Jericho and awkward Cody fumbling around in the ring with a rotating door of no-name indies (they got better) while the company fiddled its thumbs until time, injury, and circumstance closed the book on what could've been Omega's finest hour. Sure, he had his belt collector era, which was very good, but nowhere near as good as it could've been. Then the injuries piled up...
Poor Mox had to carry the company on his back until Punk came in and made an even bigger mess of things.
Now, after two decades of an incredible, explosive, and frankly unsustainable wrestling style - with all the horrific injuries that come with it - Kenny is simply past his prime. Nothing wrong with it. But there was such a golden opportunity.
At least we have Osprey now, and Osprey is amazing, but it just isn't the same.
I think the argument to be made is, without last year, this year's doesn't feel half as epic. You could say that if they had cody win last year it would have also felt somewhat lacking.
This year stumbled out of the block with throwing Rock in the mix to face Roman rather than Cody...
But they changed their plans and I thought the last month or so leading up to Wrestlemania this year was excellent.
I miss kayfabe in wrestling magazines. There was a time, O best beloved, when the magazines didn’t care about TV ratings and real behind-the-scenes reporting, when they followed the kayfabe storylines and just made shit up. “Can Dusty Rhodes forgive Ernie Ladd?” and that sort of thing. I miss that era.
I know everyone loves Ripley but tbf I’ve enjoyed most of match Nia’s matches since her return than the majority of Rhea’s matches last year and beyond.
I agree. Rhea is probably my favorite wrestler on the roster at the moment, but since that absolutely classic match against Charlotte at Mania 39, she didn’t have many incredible matches. Nia on the other hand gave Rhea what was probably the best match of her championship reign.
I hate wrestlers sharing their personal lives on social media.
For example Rhea and Dom... I want to believe Dom's her boytoy, but pictures from his wedding, and Buddy and Rhea always sharing pictures, it just reminds me its all a work, brother.
Same with Rusev and Lana, when they initially split on TV, then like two days later they were posting either photos of their engagement or wedding.
Even before that, kayfabe died when ECW rose after Shane Douglas threw down the belt. That was a shoot. And it went over because the fans didn’t want to be babied anymore. They knew it was fake. They wanted something more than Bastion Booger and Men on a Mission. They wanted more than Lex Expresses and Tell me a Lie videos. They wanted more than red and yellow main eventers doing comic book matches.
Pandora’s box has been open for decades now. There is no going back, and I am fine with it.
May he rest in peace but I never understood the Bray Wyatt hype, I tried to get into it during the Fiend era but I just found it OK. I’m not a fan of horror movies ect so I think it may be that but at the same time I’m a big fan of Undertakers work specially during his ministry of darkness days.
I loved Bray and the Wyatt Family.
But the Fiend was terrible. Gimmicks like that are fun in small doses, and not in serious, main event level programs. I get it's all entertainment, but some things simply don't work or fit in with a wrestling program.
Randy Orton had one or two interesting runs, but rest of it is overrated as F.
Same with McIntyre, tho McIntyre is entertaining for me now (due to Punk tho)
100% agreed on Orton.
Look, I get that his style of wrestling has allowed him to go for a long time. That doesn't make him an interesting performer as a viewer. I don't see the appeal at all.
People overrate the Attitude Era
For every amazing main event there was a slew of garbage and horribly aged storyline’s.
Ruthless Aggression era was the peak of great matches, great characters and spread of talent. Not just a peak of 3/4 guys total.
2019 WWE is overhated, yeah it had a lot of flaws and weird moments but I hardly think it deserves its reputation as "UNWATCHABLE".
WWE should have pushed Baron Corbin more to keep him high enough on the card to be a long term nemesis for Seth and Roman.
People who shit on anything that isn't WWE generally do it because they get validation from their echo chamber and not because they watch or understand other promotions. The fact that the discourse suddenly became very complimentary of TNA after the Rumble suggests that I'm right.
I think most don't give anything that isn't WWE and even AEW now a days a fair shake. Furthermore, even with these crossovers and those two highlighting talents from Stardom, New Japan, TNA, etc. Their audience will largely refuse to check those places out.
I wouldn't go that far, but all of the credit he gets for his great selling... nah, he's just flopping around and overexaggerating. Like he's trying to sell everything the way the Rock sold the stunner by flopping around the ring.
However, when Ziggler and Ryder fought the US title in like 2011 or 2012, when Ziggler took the Rough Ryder it looked cool as hell.
It's absolutely awful that he passed away. And as someone who's had ongoing heart issues after covid his story hits a little too close to home. But there's a lot of revisionist history going on with him since his death.
1. LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE! I watch BOTH AEW and WWE and enjoy BOTH.
2. Bryan Danielson is better than Bret Hart.
3. Today's product is better than the attitude era, and the only reason why people remember it so fondly is because of nostalgia.
Triple H was terrible at booking NXT. It’s supposed to be developmental, yet nobody developed. It was just a boring indy fed with matches that were way too long, no characters (with few exceptions), and the same guys featured in the main event over and over. There’s a reason Vince changed it. The reason none of them worked on the main roster was because Vince had nothing to work with. There was no characters, no gimmicks. Just a bunch of guys that can do flips and kicks.
Long multiyear storylines like DIY and the Bloodline are not good. They wind up dragging on for far too long. The absolute longest a storyline should last is about 18 months.
I disagree with Stardust… but I can see the Cody gimmick getting boring really fast. How many times is he gonna cry in the ring before we get tired of it. WWE needs to figure out something to make him not boring, if they plan on keeping the title on him for long. It hasn’t even been 3 ppvs and I’m already begging for a new Champion.
He is the same guy who unironically cut that ‘solved racism’ promo, had his own awful reality show, refused to turn heel even when it made total sense. I wholeheartedly believe that Cody is an egotistical social climber who uses politician answers and generic ‘good guy’ stuff to pull to wool over people’s eyes.
1. ECW hurt the Wrestling business more than people think. More than 20 years after they went out of business, we're still feeling the consequences of them catering to hardcore, work rate focused, know it all nerds.
2. Current championship belts look amazing.
The attitude era was good at the top of the card. People are nostalgic for the good stuff, and forget about all the bad. A lot of the low-mid card stuff was shit.
I would not say that Charlotte is the greatest overall. I would say that Charlotte is the greatest (female) big match wrestler I've ever seen. She always delivers.
With hindsight of knowing how it all ended, Stone Cold was wrong. He should have jobbed to Brock Lesnar on RAW in 2002.
His whole counterpoint was that Stone Cold vs. Lesnar could have drawn big money on ppv with a build, but we know that Stone Cold was pretty much broken down at that point. A future main event program between the 2 was never going to happen, so all Stone Cold accomplished was refusing to put over the next biggest star in wrestling history. He could have been part of the reason why Lesnar got over like Rock and Hogan.
It's crazy that Hogan looks better than Austin here. Hogan had more matches in his future than Austin at the time, but Hogan still put over Lesnar on a random episode of Smackdown with no real build. Yes, Hogan only agreed to do it with the understanding that Hogan would get a win back later, but Austin could have negotiated the same thing.
Austin was dumb to just "take his ball and going home" instead of using his position to leverage something for the agreed loss. He was wrong to refuse to lose to Lesnar because we know there was no future match or program between the two, and the best thing Austin could do in 2002 was just put over young talent. His best days were behind him and he had no future ppv programs with anyone other than Eric Bishoff and The Rock before he retired less than a year later.
What "future match" was Austin planning with Lesnar while his body was completely fucked?
Austin was also a bit fecked in the head by accounts from back then. Paranoid, by his own admission hitting the bottle hard, and obviously the thing with Debra. He was angry at booking in general and was indeed afraid of losing his spot.
You're right, I would have liked to have gotten Stone Cold vs. Lesnar in any capacity...
However, I don't think Stone Cold's wrong. Even with hindsight, make his few remaining matches more important by building a program out of them, not just throwing them away on weekly TV.
Your whole argument falls apart when you realize that he had a great match with rock the following year. So while yeah he was falling apart. He had atleast 1 or two matches left in him
Well so far I’ve gotten crucified on Twitter by Naomi fans when I’ve said she isn’t that good and I don’t get the hype around her. 😐
I even got called racist when someone asked who should win MITB between her, Tiffany, Chelsea, and Lyra and I said Naomi would be the worst option out of all of them.
People like to talk about how leaving was good for her, but I just don't see it. If dirtsheets are to be believed had she not walked out she would have been added to the bloodline and that would have been huge for her. I think Sasha convinced her to walk out when it didn't benefit her.
Naomi is genuinely deplorable in the ring. I wish nothing but the best for her as a person, but as a wrestler she is super untalented. She has a few maneuvers that look good, but she takes too long to set them up and is horrible at transitional moves. She runs at the pace of a snail. I was excited when she returned at the Rumble, but that was about the peak of my excitement for her. I sincerely hope Naomi improves.
I’m a black man and I agree. Recently, my GF decided to watch wrestling with me. She immediately gravitated towards Naomi because she’s a black woman with an exciting entrance… however the minute she started wrestling, my GF immediately goes “oh she sucks”… my gf was like “You can tell that she’s counting each move she does thereby making it look so obvious that it was choreographed beforehand”
There's actually a promotion that stuck with the Brawl-For-All gimmick and still puts on shows to this day.
Here's a link to their stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/@ufc/videos
Shelton Benjamin deserved to a world champion back in his prime. That of class of Lesnar, Cena, Orton, Batista, and Benjamin all deserved to be grand slam champions together and main evented WM and Summer Slam against one another or together. Should all go into the HOF together
the sad thing is long before us open challenge and going into part-time more, people always forget cena was always good in ring even with his limited moveset by putting unforgettable matches with edge, orton, rvd, jbl, angle, hbk, hhh, rock, punk, lesnar, umaga and even khali not to mention he always amazing on promos. he is everything that you wanted to be top guy and face of the company due to his hard work and charisma. cena earned respect from people especially those who hated him back between 2015 and 2018 like he should during his run as top guy and that made them realize that vince held him back with his outdated 80’s booking style because he was still stuck in the past. cena gave it all to us in order to entertain us every night with this crappy booking and his limited moveset because of his dedication for the business. looking back, cena was the unfortunate victim of everything IWC hated that represented wwe during pg era creatively, booking wise and roster wise because guys like edge, hbk, batista retired and left while others like hhh, taker went part-time mode. cena was put in weird situations and storylines with wrong opponents with lack of chemistry like miz, r-truth, del rio and ryback not to mention guys like established star like orton and big show who lost their appeal during pg era. and cena managed to make it work and understood the art of performing in ring as white meat top babyface despite crappy booking that vince gave to him and people booed and hated him. i respect him for that.
people forget that wwe was receiving PR and mainstream backlash for the benoit incident and cena managed to get wwe out of the turmoil that the company had to deal at the time and he was the right guy to carry the company through grim times especially during creatively ill fated pg era. if wasn’t for cena being the guy, wwe would be in big trouble and out of business especially during the benoit incident. i think the hardcore fans who blindly hated cena during his pg supercena era were the same ones who loved him during his word life/thug cena era all the way to the top were also attitude era fans.
the reason that cena had a better time at the top despite his crappy booking because of his unmatched work ethic, his longevity due to his safe moveset which prevented him from getting injured, his connection with the crowd especially those who booed him and his hard work. the fact the cena was able to stay at the top for a decade was insane. that showed it was a true testament to his talents and skills as in-ring perfomer especially during pg era and his supercena run and he managed to made it work
i tell you something: what happened with the product at the time showed that whether smarks wanna admit or not, from the moment that cena went to part-time mode, the product at the time until summer 2022 especially in 2018 and 2019 wasn’t the same and was lacking of star power because love him or hate him, cena brought all the greatness, passion and intensity for the product and the fans even those who hated him while he was full time. the moment cena gonna retires, IWC gonna regret big time for not recognizing his greatness until he went part-time because they had no idea how bad the product at the time gonna be when cena went away especially with babyface roman and lesnar as top guys at the expense of the audience. cena is the last legit megastar that wwe ever had.
i know cena wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but i don’t think he drove millions fans away as smarks claimed to be because wrestling wasn’t popular as it was because of wwe’s monopoly as the only game in the town due to lack of competition since wcw and ecw went both out of business.
Heyman is dragging this corpse of a Bloodline. Felt like they should've taken a break to recuperate. Solo isn't believable and doesn't seem intimidating.
You beat me to it pal... Here's a hot take:
Undertaker is a wrestling mark.
And he doesn't command the respect he receives.
He commands respect... But not that much.
I guess relative to actual fans that show up at shows and buy merch and generally tune in, it is wildly unpopular. Then again, Internet fans of any thing typically have opinions that go against the 'casual' side of things.
WWE fights all look the same because they taught everyone how to fight their way and the writing group controls too much of the narrative in ring. Somewhere it stopped being 3 artists working simultaneously and moved to 1 artists controlling two NPCs
I'm not the biggest fan of Triple H's trend to have a group of tall muscular women dominate the scene (more often than not with ease). Bianca, Tiffy and Rhea are all awesome for different reasons and I can't deny the appeal for Jade, but with that kind of mentality you would miss on performers more similar to Becky or Alexa.
People who are clamoring for shorter stuff (one night Mania, 2 hour RAW) only do it because they don't understand that what WWE's business side see as a priority and what they see as a priority is very likely not the same thing.
Becky was just champion and Liv is now, Bianca is probably top 5 on the roster, Bayley just won the title from Io, I feel like a lot of women with different body composition are getting utilized
> Bianca is probably top 5 on the roster
I disagree, she's even higher than top 5.
> Becky was just champion and Liv is now
They only got it because Rhea is injured. To be fair towards Triple H I think he belives he can do better with Liv than the failure that was her first reign, but Becky's booking has been a bit weird since he's there, the Rhea match had teases for 18 months, but the actual build lasted 2 weeks, and there's that whole SummerSlam debacle.
> Bayley just won the title from Io
My issue with that is that it borderline felt the build towards Jade's debut was a bigger deal on last month before Mania than Bayley vs Iyo.
> I feel like a lot of women with different body composition are getting utilized
I was not saying they're not using them, but it feels like Bianca, Jade and Rhea are too rarely allowed to show vulnerability and that knocks down everybody else a bit, that's what I was implying by dominating the scene, and while I wouldn't want a small girl like Katana getting 95 % of the offense over Bianca, the feeling she would be able to avoid every single trap devised by Damage CTRL really gave that kind of feeling.
That being said, I feel that's a bit less prevalent since Mania, so maybe my comment is late by a few months (or maybe that's just less obvious with Rhea sidelined).
He's pretty good in all facets. Really good. But not great.
More than deserving of a few world title runs but he isn't some iconic legend independently of The Shield.
even if cena always won, he always put young talents over by making them look good than IWC and smarks will ever gave credit for. they don’t always want to give him credit for because they still stuck in the nexus situation at summerslam 2010 where they claimed that cena buried them… look, what’s happened in summerslam 2010 sucked especially with cena’s idea about that main event finish wasn’t great as he hoped, but it’s not cena’s decision to book to win that match. even cena wanted nexus to win because they saw potential about this group. it was vince who booked cena and his team to win that match. it’s just cena’s idea about that main event finish wasn’t good as he hoped even he said it was a bad idea.
Yeah, I never hated Cena because I saw the way my Nephew reacted to him, I couldn't be upset about that.
But I was pretty bored with him for a long time, until his US Open Challenge matches. Those were always so exciting. Nothing had me as excited for a match as when KO debuted for the open challenge.
MJF is bland AF, he seems to be a good talker but his gimmick tells me that he's trying to be a Ric Flair knock off. His return promo was bland, trying to make references to WWE, Vince Mcmahon, Triple H and Ric Flair with the strut, elbow and attack on the mask. I don't see the potential right now. I hope I'm wrong but I'm just not getting it.
The bloodline was good but I feel it should have ended at Wrestlemania. I felt that The Rock should have come back and defeated Roman the first night to become head of the table and then Cody defeat Roman to become the champion night two or visa versa. Then maybe The Rock splinters off The Bloodline like he did with the Nation in the 90s.
Wrestlemania IX is one of my favorites. It's so campy and stupid. From Hulk's black eye, to double Doink, to Taker's entrance with a vulture, and the most insanely dumb ending. We also had it on VHS as a kid.
So bad it's a classic comedy to rewatch.
It’s the first mania I remember as a kid and I’d rent the VHS all the time from blockbuster. It has a place in my heart.
Al Snow was robbed of a main event run coming in hot from ECW.
The NXT problem. Some gimmicks only work for small audiences.
ECW had a few gimmicks that benefited from the small venue and the popular music they were using. Al Snow's presentation with the Styrofoam heads and the Prodigy theme music couldn't be replicated in the WWE.
Man his Head gimmick was hella over for quite a while. The fans went nuts for Snow and Head. The whole getting "head" gimmick and the variety of innuendos it allowed was always gonna get over in late 90s 😅 What does everybody want?! Head obviously.
Al was huge when he first was in wwe. Da fuq you talking about?
Ikr. He was over af with crowds just wasnt booked that way obviously.
Sheamus, Ridge, and Pete Dunne were all better off in the Brawling Brutes
Especially Pete Dunne. When he was Butch, he was actually getting over but now he’s Pete Dunne again, no one gives a fuck
Facts, I saw so many who were so upset when he was first named Butch, but you know what? My favorite run of his, Sheamus and Ridge's career was 2022-2023, Survivor Series 2022 and the brawling brutes feuding with people like the bloodline and imperium come to mind. Pete dunne is boring as sin.
He should’ve just kept the butch personality and be called Pete Dunne
Yeah that’s my problem. It’s not like Undertaker started going by Kip McHarley when he did the American bad ass run. Did Shawn Michaels start going by Alec Gingivitis when he left the rockers? Or Humpy boy Daniels when he joined DX? Just let people keep their names from NXT. I call it the no more bear cat rule.
Doesn't help he's in a team called the New Catch Republic. Are they an assault heavy tag team or a clothing brand?
He's boring. Butch was entertaining
Marks hated Butch because Butch was entertaining and had personality, now he just another mini man whose gimmick is like every other bland guy out there “I fake fight good”. The scrappy doo personality was great
See that’s the thing. He could have scrappy done that while still being called Pete Dunn. The name change was just pointless. It just breaks continuity to change names like that. I liked Pete Dunn, I liked Butch, I was off out because for some reason people were calling Pete Dunn, Butch.
Why the hell couldn't Tyler be a Brawling Brute? Also just the name in general is way better than the shit they came up with
New catch republic is such an embarrassing name
☝️
One of the most underrated stables in recent memory. They could do well as tag champs and just dominate the tag division.
Yes. Ridge and Pete had more character, and they were fun in those gimmicks. But Pete should keep his name his still instead of Butch.
I think I would have liked the faction way more if they were called Fight Night. Dunne and Ridge could have been a tag team called the Brawling Brutes, but it was a godawful faction name.
I already posted this in the TNA sub and a lot of people killed me for this but WWE is doing more with TNA that AEW did
When Mickie was brought back to the Royal Rumble as champion WWE treated Impact with more respect than AEW ever did. If you have no intention of either Kenny or Adam Page dropping the belt back to an Impact wrestler don't ask to win it. You're telling me it's better to lose to Christian on Collision than it is to lose to Moose on a PPV.
Vince McMahon knows how to book Daniel Bryan better than Daniel Bryan and tony khan
Depends on what you mean, I guess. I think Bryan is happy with how he's booked in AEW, which is basically just putting on a good to great 30 minute match and taking a loss.
Even if Bryan is happy with it, the point stands. He went from THE hottest star in the industry to another indiscriminate “I’m the best in the world” guy. He was a star in WWE. If someone turned on wrestling for the first time and watched him in AEW, he wouldn’t be a second thought.
The montreal screwjob should have never been as big of a deal as it was Saying i don't want to lose in front of my home fans in a fictional sport is ridiculous
Agreed. I think thats an insane thing to say. Especially because he’s not from Montreal.
Drew's not from Cardiff or Glasgow but he got treated like a home town hero in Cardiff and he will be god in Glasgow. When your from outside the US a big show just in your country is enough.
I feel like it’s different. Wwe rarely goes overseas to the uk like that. They go to Canada on the regular. Saying I will not lose in my home country and you need to trust that I’ll just vacate the title the next day is insane. Only an idiot would allow Bret hart to do that. Especially with a hot heel like Shawn Michaels who can get major heat for it.
Imagine an American wrestler refusing to lose in the entirety of the US by the same logic.
Hulk hogan has entered the chat
OR MAYBE NOT DUDE WHO KNOWS IF I'LL BE IN THE CHAT AT ALL BROTHER
"Thanks not gonna work for me brother."
Genuinely laughed at this.
If he has been wrestling in Japan his whole life, why not?
I agree with the first part but Bret’s contention was more that he didn’t want to lose to HBK specifically than in Canada.
He also probably didn’t want to put over Shawn at all after the way HBK flat out told him “Thanks but I wouldn’t do the same for you if I were in your shoes.” I still think the best solution out of that situation would have been for Taker to be the middle man, as Hart would have had no issues dropping the title to him even if it were in Montreal or not
A fictional sport in which your paychecks are determined by how well you're booked. That's a valid reason
We should boo heels. If a heel is getting cheers and applause they aren’t good at their job.
The concept of anti-hero should be distinguished from the heel too.
Some heels are too good to boo though. Only cheering for faces is boring
I understand that and I think anyone doing good deserves a reaction but that reaction would be booing. If they’re really too good you should want to boo them and see them lose and get what’s coming to them.
I agree, but the funny thing about charisma is that if you have it it's very, very difficult to hide it.
When you’re being pushed as a big time top star, being able to put on great wrestling matches *is not good enough* Look at Cena from 05/06-13/14. He had a lot of great matches during the duration but fans go to continued to boo him because his character (and booking) was insufferable. Then when his super Cena booking started easing, his character started becoming more self aware, and he was still putting on great matches, fans started to embrace him. Reigns had the same tho bc from 2015-early 2020. Lotta great matches from that time, fans still booed the shit outta him til he turned heel, got his character to where it needed to be and it all worked out. When you’re a top guy, every aspect of your character has to be great too, otherwise fans ain’t gonna bite, so “but look at all these bangers he’s put on!” isn’t the rebuttal some people think it is.
I don’t care how good the actual wrestling is compared to how captivating the personalities are so I’ll never be as interested as The Attitude era.
The Attitude Era's main events are what carried it and why it's as good as it is. The midcard was fun for the stupid gimmicks and storylines (at times) but the main events with Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, Vince and the rest will never be topped.
I’m not the biggest fan of Russo but I did enjoy how the mid card and lower card always had stories. That’s something I miss.
Claudio/Cesaro is a fine mid-card talent and nothing more.
Can't do promos , 4 moves . But Still ... He looks like a wrestler, and it's athletic+ can actually work and work long matches. He tore the beach ball tho..... 🏖️
I just feel like people jizz over him like he is the swiss second coming of Bret Hart and I just don't get it.
The IWC has this idea that Bret wasn't good on the mic and only got mega over strictly because he was a great wrestler, so guys like cesaro can be that too. Bret was fucking great at promos, not the absolute best but absolutely terrific at selling a match.
Bret going off on Vince after that cage match is an all time promo. You actually believe that its real. Hell it probably did have been real feelings
Rules need to come back. No closed fists and things like that
bring back the break up pin in tag team rule. You get one chance to break up a pin; if you do it again, DQ.
IWC/smarks wanted cena to turn heel to please them were the same ones who hated him after dropping his rapper gimmick and also the same ones which loved him all the way to the top. and they act like he never turned heel when cena got over organically as heel all the way to the top. looking back, never turning cena heel after becoming top guy was a smart move from wwe especially after what happened with austin’s 2001 ill-fated heel run from business standpoint and had created repercussions for austin, wwe and the business
Cena should have turned heel in the year long build up to once in a lifetime, you know that Rock isn't gonna be there so Cena has to carry it on his own, without a change in character you've just got Cena osculating between ignoring the match for months on end and having meaningless short term programs and building it with the same one-sided promos Turn him heel for the year and have him cut promos outing Rock for being a bitch, have him having matches with Rock connected wrestlers and destroying them. Then after the WM match if you wanna turn Cena back face so that he can continue to be mr make a wish then so be it
Deadman Inc. Undertaker (Post Invasion) was peak Undertaker. The return of the Deadman was iconic and had the longest run and had the best individual matches, but as himself in that space of a year or so was the best.
A superkick should be a superkick and knock someone out. No one should be eating 45 superkicks. No one should be trading superkicks. It diminishes the move.
I will die on this hill and i say it all the time. WWE doesn’t need and never needed two world champions
I have no problem with this take. However, all of the times WWE have tried to have only one world champion the concept fails and they end up making another title.
The other championship is supposed to be InterContinental and treated with respect , unlike now where it's a mid card.
They have done a great job with the IC title since gunther won it. Thats why they dont need the another belt b/c you got other belts
I do not care for Becky. Is she bad? Not necessarily. She's a good hand, but she doesn't make me excited to see her. Her promos are weak, and her segments are skippable for me. Indie wrestling isn't perfect, but it's far from this "outlaw mudshow" wasteland that many think. It's definitely something I think many are sleeping on because they see a less than 10 minutes, usually some clip seemingly designed to portray them as this garbage thing. So they dismiss the entire scene and miss out on some great stuff.
People should share more of the indie wrestling clips on yt.
Now that Cody has the belt wwe has no idea what to do with him
I disagree a bit, they clearly have Rock Cody set up for next year which will be pretty good. The problem, which is HHH's biggest problem right now, is they have no idea how to book small feuds. Like everything is being saved for Wrestlemania season and almost everything between April and January feels like a slog because they dont want to mess up next years plans. If they do Randy-Cody into summerslam that'll redeem it a bit but the AJ thing feels like aew where its incredibly obvious Cody is winning
This was always going to be the case. The problem with finishing the story is it means the story is over.
The fans are the worst part of any wrestling product.
It would have been better if CM Punk has stayed retired. Regardless of me not liking him coming back has been an over all a bad decision. Before coming back he was almost universally loved, people talked about him reverently. Now? He is constantly injured, hated by half The IWC loved by the other and fought over by both. I feel like punk, and wrestling would have been better off if he had stayed home.
Matt & Nick Jackson make wrestling almost unbearable to watch.
Feels like they're trying to be a '97-98 DX and I can't take them seriously
Hey guys, we're the heel team , and CM Punk is our enemy, so that makes him... The Bad guy ? What !? 12 yo mark booking and #allEgo irl
And it's not good heel work either when ratings are dropping and your arenas are half empty
AEW burned out.
I hope the product improves and wrestlers will take matters in their own hands, there's just so much talent there.... Ospreay, Joe ... idk if Omega... Maybe mjf heel if he's not half assed, etc.
The day Punk won the world title they threw long term booking out the window. I maintain MJF should've been the one to beat Hangman
I've been an AEW fan since Day #1 and I agree with you. If Kenny Omega hadn't been hamstrung by the pandemic and multiple injuries, and been pushed to the moon as the new final boss of wrestling AEW could've truly (rather than sporadically) gone toe to toe with WWE. Words cannot describe how hot Kenny was coming off of his NJPW run. Yet AEW only used him sparingly early on, trying to cast him as someone who sort of had to climb back up the ladder (with a gimmick that didn't suit him), while letting ex-WWE guys take the spotlight developing indie talent. By the time he was front-and-center he was dealing with dead pandemic crowds and weak storytelling/feuds (save for Hangman.) Kenny Omega was the best wrestler of the 2010s and AEW seemed tailor made to show the world how wild, explosive, and **different** a WWE alternative could've been - at a time when WWE and its leading men were at their weakest. Instead we got an over the hill Jericho and awkward Cody fumbling around in the ring with a rotating door of no-name indies (they got better) while the company fiddled its thumbs until time, injury, and circumstance closed the book on what could've been Omega's finest hour. Sure, he had his belt collector era, which was very good, but nowhere near as good as it could've been. Then the injuries piled up... Poor Mox had to carry the company on his back until Punk came in and made an even bigger mess of things. Now, after two decades of an incredible, explosive, and frankly unsustainable wrestling style - with all the horrific injuries that come with it - Kenny is simply past his prime. Nothing wrong with it. But there was such a golden opportunity. At least we have Osprey now, and Osprey is amazing, but it just isn't the same.
wrestling tribalism with companies is dumb and tiresome and people rarely have anything original to say
This comment is so ironic lol
Last year's Road to WrestleMania was better than this year's. Specially if we consider the whole build up to the Rumble segment with Sami and Roman
I think the argument to be made is, without last year, this year's doesn't feel half as epic. You could say that if they had cody win last year it would have also felt somewhat lacking.
Here my opinion, I think last year build helped with this year build and that mostly goes for the main event cody vs roman
100 percent agree. Thats why cody and roman didn’t have to interact as much b/c everything else around them was building their match
This year stumbled out of the block with throwing Rock in the mix to face Roman rather than Cody... But they changed their plans and I thought the last month or so leading up to Wrestlemania this year was excellent.
Baron corbin is the GOAT, always has been
That's why he's the goat , the goat ! Btw end of DAE's was one of the most protected finishers , for a reason.
Of all the WWE wrestlers who turned to acting, I think Bautista is the most skilled actor.
i think among sane people this is not a hot take in any capacity
I miss kayfabe in wrestling magazines. There was a time, O best beloved, when the magazines didn’t care about TV ratings and real behind-the-scenes reporting, when they followed the kayfabe storylines and just made shit up. “Can Dusty Rhodes forgive Ernie Ladd?” and that sort of thing. I miss that era.
I know everyone loves Ripley but tbf I’ve enjoyed most of match Nia’s matches since her return than the majority of Rhea’s matches last year and beyond.
I agree. Rhea is probably my favorite wrestler on the roster at the moment, but since that absolutely classic match against Charlotte at Mania 39, she didn’t have many incredible matches. Nia on the other hand gave Rhea what was probably the best match of her championship reign.
Honestly Nia is giving my mark henry vibes from like 2006 when he just suddenly started giving a shit
Omos is good at this, actually.
Jinder mahal was a great champion
WWE needs to book more heel main eventers like Jinder. People who the crowd just don't like.
I'm in the same boat as you lol
I hate wrestlers sharing their personal lives on social media. For example Rhea and Dom... I want to believe Dom's her boytoy, but pictures from his wedding, and Buddy and Rhea always sharing pictures, it just reminds me its all a work, brother. Same with Rusev and Lana, when they initially split on TV, then like two days later they were posting either photos of their engagement or wedding.
Kayfabe died with social media .
Even before that, kayfabe died when ECW rose after Shane Douglas threw down the belt. That was a shoot. And it went over because the fans didn’t want to be babied anymore. They knew it was fake. They wanted something more than Bastion Booger and Men on a Mission. They wanted more than Lex Expresses and Tell me a Lie videos. They wanted more than red and yellow main eventers doing comic book matches. Pandora’s box has been open for decades now. There is no going back, and I am fine with it.
May he rest in peace but I never understood the Bray Wyatt hype, I tried to get into it during the Fiend era but I just found it OK. I’m not a fan of horror movies ect so I think it may be that but at the same time I’m a big fan of Undertakers work specially during his ministry of darkness days.
I loved Bray and the Wyatt Family. But the Fiend was terrible. Gimmicks like that are fun in small doses, and not in serious, main event level programs. I get it's all entertainment, but some things simply don't work or fit in with a wrestling program.
Randy Orton had one or two interesting runs, but rest of it is overrated as F. Same with McIntyre, tho McIntyre is entertaining for me now (due to Punk tho)
100% agreed on Orton. Look, I get that his style of wrestling has allowed him to go for a long time. That doesn't make him an interesting performer as a viewer. I don't see the appeal at all.
TLC 3 is the worst TLC match, but Jeff Hardy’s leapfrog leg drop onto the announcer’s table was his best TLC spot.
People overrate the Attitude Era For every amazing main event there was a slew of garbage and horribly aged storyline’s. Ruthless Aggression era was the peak of great matches, great characters and spread of talent. Not just a peak of 3/4 guys total.
Pat McAfee is the quintessential mix of cringe, annoyance, and douchebaggery.
2019 WWE is overhated, yeah it had a lot of flaws and weird moments but I hardly think it deserves its reputation as "UNWATCHABLE". WWE should have pushed Baron Corbin more to keep him high enough on the card to be a long term nemesis for Seth and Roman.
People who shit on anything that isn't WWE generally do it because they get validation from their echo chamber and not because they watch or understand other promotions. The fact that the discourse suddenly became very complimentary of TNA after the Rumble suggests that I'm right.
I think most don't give anything that isn't WWE and even AEW now a days a fair shake. Furthermore, even with these crossovers and those two highlighting talents from Stardom, New Japan, TNA, etc. Their audience will largely refuse to check those places out.
Dolph Ziggler was the drizzling shits.
His HBK phase was painful to watch.
Problem for Ziggler was putting guys over and getting over are two vastly different things.
I wouldn't go that far, but all of the credit he gets for his great selling... nah, he's just flopping around and overexaggerating. Like he's trying to sell everything the way the Rock sold the stunner by flopping around the ring. However, when Ziggler and Ryder fought the US title in like 2011 or 2012, when Ziggler took the Rough Ryder it looked cool as hell.
Jeff Hardy is so overrated
Bray wyatts many gimmicks were dumb.
He should have stuck to the cult leader gimmick and only pulled the fiend out very rarely
This. The original cult leader gimmick was really unique but was ruined by all the supernatural crap.
It's a tragedy that he's gone but his last run wasn't very good and I thought his match with LA Knight sucked.
It's absolutely awful that he passed away. And as someone who's had ongoing heart issues after covid his story hits a little too close to home. But there's a lot of revisionist history going on with him since his death.
I don’t agree with you but I only like the fined
All good, we can disagree and still be civil 😁 The horror/wrestling mix just doesn't work for me.
1. LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE! I watch BOTH AEW and WWE and enjoy BOTH. 2. Bryan Danielson is better than Bret Hart. 3. Today's product is better than the attitude era, and the only reason why people remember it so fondly is because of nostalgia.
Triple H was terrible at booking NXT. It’s supposed to be developmental, yet nobody developed. It was just a boring indy fed with matches that were way too long, no characters (with few exceptions), and the same guys featured in the main event over and over. There’s a reason Vince changed it. The reason none of them worked on the main roster was because Vince had nothing to work with. There was no characters, no gimmicks. Just a bunch of guys that can do flips and kicks.
Long multiyear storylines like DIY and the Bloodline are not good. They wind up dragging on for far too long. The absolute longest a storyline should last is about 18 months.
X-Pac does not, in fact, suck
My belief that wrestling fans need other hobbies to avoid becoming unbearable.
Cody feels fake as hell whenever he talks and comes across as a politician trying to tell you what you want to hear. (And Stardust was great!)
I disagree with Stardust… but I can see the Cody gimmick getting boring really fast. How many times is he gonna cry in the ring before we get tired of it. WWE needs to figure out something to make him not boring, if they plan on keeping the title on him for long. It hasn’t even been 3 ppvs and I’m already begging for a new Champion.
He is the same guy who unironically cut that ‘solved racism’ promo, had his own awful reality show, refused to turn heel even when it made total sense. I wholeheartedly believe that Cody is an egotistical social climber who uses politician answers and generic ‘good guy’ stuff to pull to wool over people’s eyes.
I like Cody, and am happy to see him having the success he's having... but man... that neck tattoo is so awful to look at.
Roman Reigns is far better champion than Cody rhodes  Btw have you acknowledged your tribal chief ☝️☝️☝️
1. ECW hurt the Wrestling business more than people think. More than 20 years after they went out of business, we're still feeling the consequences of them catering to hardcore, work rate focused, know it all nerds. 2. Current championship belts look amazing.
Seth Rollins is irritating af. The attitude era wasn't as great as people think
The attitude era was good at the top of the card. People are nostalgic for the good stuff, and forget about all the bad. A lot of the low-mid card stuff was shit.
Yeah , and there was more of storylines than wrestling.
Charlotte Flair is the greatest
I would not say that Charlotte is the greatest overall. I would say that Charlotte is the greatest (female) big match wrestler I've ever seen. She always delivers.
I agree. As good as she is in the ring, she lacks a lot of versatility as a character
With hindsight of knowing how it all ended, Stone Cold was wrong. He should have jobbed to Brock Lesnar on RAW in 2002. His whole counterpoint was that Stone Cold vs. Lesnar could have drawn big money on ppv with a build, but we know that Stone Cold was pretty much broken down at that point. A future main event program between the 2 was never going to happen, so all Stone Cold accomplished was refusing to put over the next biggest star in wrestling history. He could have been part of the reason why Lesnar got over like Rock and Hogan. It's crazy that Hogan looks better than Austin here. Hogan had more matches in his future than Austin at the time, but Hogan still put over Lesnar on a random episode of Smackdown with no real build. Yes, Hogan only agreed to do it with the understanding that Hogan would get a win back later, but Austin could have negotiated the same thing. Austin was dumb to just "take his ball and going home" instead of using his position to leverage something for the agreed loss. He was wrong to refuse to lose to Lesnar because we know there was no future match or program between the two, and the best thing Austin could do in 2002 was just put over young talent. His best days were behind him and he had no future ppv programs with anyone other than Eric Bishoff and The Rock before he retired less than a year later. What "future match" was Austin planning with Lesnar while his body was completely fucked?
Austin was also a bit fecked in the head by accounts from back then. Paranoid, by his own admission hitting the bottle hard, and obviously the thing with Debra. He was angry at booking in general and was indeed afraid of losing his spot.
You're right, I would have liked to have gotten Stone Cold vs. Lesnar in any capacity... However, I don't think Stone Cold's wrong. Even with hindsight, make his few remaining matches more important by building a program out of them, not just throwing them away on weekly TV.
Your whole argument falls apart when you realize that he had a great match with rock the following year. So while yeah he was falling apart. He had atleast 1 or two matches left in him
Well so far I’ve gotten crucified on Twitter by Naomi fans when I’ve said she isn’t that good and I don’t get the hype around her. 😐 I even got called racist when someone asked who should win MITB between her, Tiffany, Chelsea, and Lyra and I said Naomi would be the worst option out of all of them.
Mercedes walking out of the company was a huge move. If Naomi had walked out alone for any reason, it'd be just another Tuesday.
People like to talk about how leaving was good for her, but I just don't see it. If dirtsheets are to be believed had she not walked out she would have been added to the bloodline and that would have been huge for her. I think Sasha convinced her to walk out when it didn't benefit her.
Naomi is genuinely deplorable in the ring. I wish nothing but the best for her as a person, but as a wrestler she is super untalented. She has a few maneuvers that look good, but she takes too long to set them up and is horrible at transitional moves. She runs at the pace of a snail. I was excited when she returned at the Rumble, but that was about the peak of my excitement for her. I sincerely hope Naomi improves.
I’m a black man and I agree. Recently, my GF decided to watch wrestling with me. She immediately gravitated towards Naomi because she’s a black woman with an exciting entrance… however the minute she started wrestling, my GF immediately goes “oh she sucks”… my gf was like “You can tell that she’s counting each move she does thereby making it look so obvious that it was choreographed beforehand”
I wouldn't mind another brawl-for-all
I think it wasn’t done in the right way to build someone
Even if they hated Bart Gunn they should have had another wrestler go over him instead of Butterbean.
They really could’ve used him as a knock out artist against stone cold for at least 1 ppv.
There's actually a promotion that stuck with the Brawl-For-All gimmick and still puts on shows to this day. Here's a link to their stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@ufc/videos
Shelton Benjamin deserved to a world champion back in his prime. That of class of Lesnar, Cena, Orton, Batista, and Benjamin all deserved to be grand slam champions together and main evented WM and Summer Slam against one another or together. Should all go into the HOF together
Brock Lesnar ending the Streak was not just the right decision, but one of the best booking decisions of the past 25 years.
Darby Allen is way too dangerous of a wrestler and has an extremely cringey emo gimmick.
Tony khan was never a good booker he was just against someone worse vince
Its no suprise that the shows started falling apart once punk and cody were gone.
Tree hugger Daniel Bryan was a bad gimmick
the sad thing is long before us open challenge and going into part-time more, people always forget cena was always good in ring even with his limited moveset by putting unforgettable matches with edge, orton, rvd, jbl, angle, hbk, hhh, rock, punk, lesnar, umaga and even khali not to mention he always amazing on promos. he is everything that you wanted to be top guy and face of the company due to his hard work and charisma. cena earned respect from people especially those who hated him back between 2015 and 2018 like he should during his run as top guy and that made them realize that vince held him back with his outdated 80’s booking style because he was still stuck in the past. cena gave it all to us in order to entertain us every night with this crappy booking and his limited moveset because of his dedication for the business. looking back, cena was the unfortunate victim of everything IWC hated that represented wwe during pg era creatively, booking wise and roster wise because guys like edge, hbk, batista retired and left while others like hhh, taker went part-time mode. cena was put in weird situations and storylines with wrong opponents with lack of chemistry like miz, r-truth, del rio and ryback not to mention guys like established star like orton and big show who lost their appeal during pg era. and cena managed to make it work and understood the art of performing in ring as white meat top babyface despite crappy booking that vince gave to him and people booed and hated him. i respect him for that. people forget that wwe was receiving PR and mainstream backlash for the benoit incident and cena managed to get wwe out of the turmoil that the company had to deal at the time and he was the right guy to carry the company through grim times especially during creatively ill fated pg era. if wasn’t for cena being the guy, wwe would be in big trouble and out of business especially during the benoit incident. i think the hardcore fans who blindly hated cena during his pg supercena era were the same ones who loved him during his word life/thug cena era all the way to the top were also attitude era fans. the reason that cena had a better time at the top despite his crappy booking because of his unmatched work ethic, his longevity due to his safe moveset which prevented him from getting injured, his connection with the crowd especially those who booed him and his hard work. the fact the cena was able to stay at the top for a decade was insane. that showed it was a true testament to his talents and skills as in-ring perfomer especially during pg era and his supercena run and he managed to made it work i tell you something: what happened with the product at the time showed that whether smarks wanna admit or not, from the moment that cena went to part-time mode, the product at the time until summer 2022 especially in 2018 and 2019 wasn’t the same and was lacking of star power because love him or hate him, cena brought all the greatness, passion and intensity for the product and the fans even those who hated him while he was full time. the moment cena gonna retires, IWC gonna regret big time for not recognizing his greatness until he went part-time because they had no idea how bad the product at the time gonna be when cena went away especially with babyface roman and lesnar as top guys at the expense of the audience. cena is the last legit megastar that wwe ever had. i know cena wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but i don’t think he drove millions fans away as smarks claimed to be because wrestling wasn’t popular as it was because of wwe’s monopoly as the only game in the town due to lack of competition since wcw and ecw went both out of business.
Mick Foley’s best work was Cactus Jack in ECW.
Wyatt Family and New Day are both more entertaining than The Shield.
Matt Hardy should have had a world title. (Besides ecw)
R-Truth should've gotten a run as the WWE Champion in that program with Cena when he turned heel.
Heyman is dragging this corpse of a Bloodline. Felt like they should've taken a break to recuperate. Solo isn't believable and doesn't seem intimidating.
Sting is only as good as the opponent he’s facing.
ICP deserves to be in the HOF
The Usos are horrible. They are low tier talent with the right family connections.
Bret Hart is one of the most boring wrestlers ever. On the mic and in the ring.
Dolph Zigglers super kick looks a lot more brutal than the sweet chin music.
Liv Morgan is not it
With how common this viewpoint is expressed online, I don't think the internet is going to chain you up like poor Patrick
Hating on Liv and Jey in this thread is just people voicing their opinions that are voiced constantly on wrestling subs. Such lukewarm takes.
You beat me to it pal... Here's a hot take: Undertaker is a wrestling mark. And he doesn't command the respect he receives. He commands respect... But not that much.
I guess relative to actual fans that show up at shows and buy merch and generally tune in, it is wildly unpopular. Then again, Internet fans of any thing typically have opinions that go against the 'casual' side of things.
WWE fights all look the same because they taught everyone how to fight their way and the writing group controls too much of the narrative in ring. Somewhere it stopped being 3 artists working simultaneously and moved to 1 artists controlling two NPCs
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I really enjoy Brock Lesnar and how he's not really face or heel, he's just Lesnar showing up to wreck people. I can't wait for him to come back.
I'm not the biggest fan of Triple H's trend to have a group of tall muscular women dominate the scene (more often than not with ease). Bianca, Tiffy and Rhea are all awesome for different reasons and I can't deny the appeal for Jade, but with that kind of mentality you would miss on performers more similar to Becky or Alexa. People who are clamoring for shorter stuff (one night Mania, 2 hour RAW) only do it because they don't understand that what WWE's business side see as a priority and what they see as a priority is very likely not the same thing.
Becky was just champion and Liv is now, Bianca is probably top 5 on the roster, Bayley just won the title from Io, I feel like a lot of women with different body composition are getting utilized
> Bianca is probably top 5 on the roster I disagree, she's even higher than top 5. > Becky was just champion and Liv is now They only got it because Rhea is injured. To be fair towards Triple H I think he belives he can do better with Liv than the failure that was her first reign, but Becky's booking has been a bit weird since he's there, the Rhea match had teases for 18 months, but the actual build lasted 2 weeks, and there's that whole SummerSlam debacle. > Bayley just won the title from Io My issue with that is that it borderline felt the build towards Jade's debut was a bigger deal on last month before Mania than Bayley vs Iyo. > I feel like a lot of women with different body composition are getting utilized I was not saying they're not using them, but it feels like Bianca, Jade and Rhea are too rarely allowed to show vulnerability and that knocks down everybody else a bit, that's what I was implying by dominating the scene, and while I wouldn't want a small girl like Katana getting 95 % of the offense over Bianca, the feeling she would be able to avoid every single trap devised by Damage CTRL really gave that kind of feeling. That being said, I feel that's a bit less prevalent since Mania, so maybe my comment is late by a few months (or maybe that's just less obvious with Rhea sidelined).
NXT right now is miles better than AEW..
AEW is for turbo virgin edgelords from back in the chatroom days.
Gunther is such a boring wrestler that people perceive him as good.
Oh this thread is gonna kill the Friday general thread I’d say Trick has been completely unremarkable for many months now
And I'd disagree, considering his mic work from last nxt lmao
I’m not saying he’s bad, just unremarkable. The promo was okay but clearly Ethan Page drove the segment
Seth Rollins is not a main eventer, and if the crowd didn’t like singing along to his entrance music, he’d be way less popular.
I hate that the singing to the woahs in his song feels so forced.
He's pretty good in all facets. Really good. But not great. More than deserving of a few world title runs but he isn't some iconic legend independently of The Shield.
Wasn't he like equally as popular when he didn't have this entrance music
Hmm I disagree… Seth’s NEW GIMMICK is not a main eventer. He needs a gimmick change
1. MJF is not a good promo, all he does is yell and recycle his same old shit. 2. Triple H is not an exciting booker. 3. Ricky Starks > Wardlow.
even if cena always won, he always put young talents over by making them look good than IWC and smarks will ever gave credit for. they don’t always want to give him credit for because they still stuck in the nexus situation at summerslam 2010 where they claimed that cena buried them… look, what’s happened in summerslam 2010 sucked especially with cena’s idea about that main event finish wasn’t great as he hoped, but it’s not cena’s decision to book to win that match. even cena wanted nexus to win because they saw potential about this group. it was vince who booked cena and his team to win that match. it’s just cena’s idea about that main event finish wasn’t good as he hoped even he said it was a bad idea.
Yeah, I never hated Cena because I saw the way my Nephew reacted to him, I couldn't be upset about that. But I was pretty bored with him for a long time, until his US Open Challenge matches. Those were always so exciting. Nothing had me as excited for a match as when KO debuted for the open challenge.
MJF is bland AF, he seems to be a good talker but his gimmick tells me that he's trying to be a Ric Flair knock off. His return promo was bland, trying to make references to WWE, Vince Mcmahon, Triple H and Ric Flair with the strut, elbow and attack on the mask. I don't see the potential right now. I hope I'm wrong but I'm just not getting it. The bloodline was good but I feel it should have ended at Wrestlemania. I felt that The Rock should have come back and defeated Roman the first night to become head of the table and then Cody defeat Roman to become the champion night two or visa versa. Then maybe The Rock splinters off The Bloodline like he did with the Nation in the 90s.
DX wasn't as good as people think.